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Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of Couch

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Speaker 1: Talks on You Need Therapy Podcast. My name is Kat.

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Speaker 1: I am the host, and if you do not know

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Speaker 1: what couch Talks is, it's the special bonus episode of

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Speaker 1: You Need Therapy Podcast where I answer questions that you

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Speaker 1: guys send to Katherine at you Need Therapy podcast dot com. Now,

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Speaker 1: quick reminder before we get into today's question that although

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Speaker 1: this podcast is hosted by a therapist, it does not

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Speaker 1: serve as a replacement or substitute for any actual mental

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Speaker 1: health services. However, we always hope that it can help

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Speaker 1: you in some way, and we always keep these questions

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Speaker 1: anonymous so you can feel safe sending in whatever question

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Speaker 1: you want to send in. I'm not going to read

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Speaker 1: your name, your email address, or anything like that unless

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Speaker 1: it's specific to the question that you're asking and you

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Speaker 1: asked me to share it. I'm not going to share

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Speaker 1: information that you wouldn't want out there on the internet.

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Speaker 1: So usually do one question a week and we're going

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Speaker 1: to stick with that. Before I read this question, I

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Speaker 1: want to give another disclaimer because there obviously has been

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Speaker 1: a lot going on in the world the past couple days,

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Speaker 1: and what I hope is that this podcast gets to

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Speaker 1: remain a safe space for anybody to come and learn

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Speaker 1: about themselves and learn through some of the conversations we're

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Speaker 1: having despite some of the political differences people may have

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Speaker 1: in this question does touch on well. It is literally

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Speaker 1: asking about how to have conversations with people you disagree

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Speaker 1: on in that realm, and so I wanted to go

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Speaker 1: ahead and say before I get into the question, I

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Speaker 1: hope and if we've done so in the past, I

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Speaker 1: hope that my goal forward would be to keep some

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Speaker 1: of those personal beliefs around, especially as we get closer

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Speaker 1: to the upcoming election, keep those kind of separate from

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Speaker 1: this space. So despite or rather whatever political stance you have,

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Speaker 1: you still can feel safe coming here and learning about

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Speaker 1: yourself and learning about how to have healthier and happier

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Speaker 1: relationships with yourself and the people around you. Basically, we

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Speaker 1: won't be talking about politics on here or the nitty

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Speaker 1: gritty of politics, but rather how to have conversations with

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Speaker 1: people that you may not totally agree with. So I'm

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Speaker 1: going to go ahead and read our question and then

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Speaker 1: we will get into some of my thoughts here. It

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Speaker 1: is Hello, my fiance and I have different political thoughts

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Speaker 1: and feelings. With the election approaching, I'm finding it a

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Speaker 1: little more challenging to voice my feelings around it. We

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Speaker 1: typically just avoid speaking about it altogether. After what happened

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Speaker 1: this weekend, I feel like we're not talking about anything

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Speaker 1: because it just feels so big and heavy. How do

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Speaker 1: we speak of trivial things when something like this happens?

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Speaker 1: Is there a way we can safely navigate conversations about

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Speaker 1: the big thing without causing a fight or a debate?

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Speaker 1: How can we talk about it without infusing our personal

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Speaker 1: theories or opinions? Are there ground rules we can set

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Speaker 1: up so we can talk about the elephant in the room?

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Speaker 1: No pun intended. I would appreciate your time and opinions.

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Speaker 1: I love this question because I think this is something

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Speaker 1: we all should be thinking about. Right. How do I

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Speaker 1: have fruitful, healthy conversations without just avoiding everything when maybe

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Speaker 1: I don't have to? Because when we do that, we

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Speaker 1: miss out on connecting, we miss out on learning. We

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Speaker 1: just miss out on also being there for each other

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Speaker 1: and allowing our self space to process things. And I

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Speaker 1: really like that you wrote in this question because you're

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Speaker 1: showing and sharing yourself as an example that you don't

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Speaker 1: have to agree on everything to be in relationship with somebody. Now,

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Speaker 1: depending on what you disagree on and the value that

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Speaker 1: you attach to those issues that you may disagree on,

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Speaker 1: this might not be something that anybody can do. I

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Speaker 1: don't think that everybody could probably have a relationship that

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Speaker 1: is as intimate as a marriage with somebody who might

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Speaker 1: disagree politically. But it is possible, and I think that

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Speaker 1: it is only fair to ourselves in our possible future

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Speaker 1: relationships that we do leave space for there to be

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Speaker 1: some differing of opinions on stuff now, depending on the

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Speaker 1: relevancy or the importance or the value put on the

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Speaker 1: different opinions. I think that can be different case to case,

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Speaker 1: but it's not a black or white thing. And I

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Speaker 1: really just like that you've been asking that question. Gives

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Speaker 1: us space to acknowledge and know that to be true.

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Speaker 1: Also very interesting. I just listened to a really good

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Speaker 1: podcast that spoke on literally how to have a conversation

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Speaker 1: about politics in a non threatening, healthy way. And the

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Speaker 1: podcast was be There in five I've talked about it before.

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Speaker 1: Kate Kennedy is the host of that and she had

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Speaker 1: the author I will put the podcast in the notes

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Speaker 1: and this book. Even though I have not read this book,

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Speaker 1: I just listened to the podcast of the authors being interviewed.

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Speaker 1: The book is called Democracy and Retrograde, and I think

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Speaker 1: it talks about a lot of things, but more so

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Speaker 1: what I got from that podcast is how to be

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Speaker 1: involved in politics but not have to have it take

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Speaker 1: your whole life over, and how to be involved in

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Speaker 1: your community without having to have these such extreme stances

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Speaker 1: and have to know everything because it can be very overwhelming.

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Speaker 1: And when we don't know everything, we either force ourselves

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Speaker 1: to know everything or we hide in corners, and those

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Speaker 1: voices then get diminished and it seems like the middle

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Speaker 1: ground voices don't exist. And so the podcast was really interesting.

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Speaker 1: I learned a lot. Was also just a good background

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Speaker 1: conversation to have on that did not feel threatening. So

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Speaker 1: it kind of is an example of what we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to add a little bit of what

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Speaker 1: they said in then and weave that in with my

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Speaker 1: own thoughts about this question. So the first thing they

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Speaker 1: said when they were talking about how to have conversations

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Speaker 1: like this is they encourage people to start with a compliment,

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Speaker 1: and that might seem really small or trivial. But I

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Speaker 1: love how simple that is because it kind of just

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Speaker 1: allows us to drop our defenses a little bit, and

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Speaker 1: I think can shift our mind to allow space for

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Speaker 1: positivity in these conversations, because often when we are going

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Speaker 1: into them, we automatically feel like we have to be

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Speaker 1: on this defense mode. Right no matter who you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: these are conversations that involve topics that just kind of

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Speaker 1: get our heart racing. And if we just start the

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Speaker 1: conversation off with something pleasant or polite, or not even

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Speaker 1: polite but kind, I think it allows the conversation to

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Speaker 1: be less threatening and gets you on an even playing

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Speaker 1: field that shows, Hey, you have some kind of shared

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Speaker 1: interest or opinion or thought about this other person that

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Speaker 1: you are with, and you aren't just against them totally.

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Speaker 1: I think that's what I really like about that. It's showing, hey,

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Speaker 1: we're not I'm not totally against you. I see this

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Speaker 1: thing that I really like and appreciate about you. Therefore

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Speaker 1: I might be able to hear you because I do

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Speaker 1: have that part that has pleasant, kind thoughts about the

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Speaker 1: person I'm communicating with. Now. One of the things that

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Speaker 1: I've talked about on here in different areas not just

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Speaker 1: in politics, but just in areas where you can have

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Speaker 1: an opinion in general. One of the problems that we

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Speaker 1: see that has become so big and at this point

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Speaker 1: it just feels like has it ever not been this way?

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Speaker 1: But it hasn't always been this way, is that we

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Speaker 1: see so much of the extreme polarization of politics right

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Speaker 1: we have I think a skewed idea of what people

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Speaker 1: really believe because of what we see in the media

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Speaker 1: and what we see in the media and that includes

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Speaker 1: social media, are the loudest voices, not just the most common.

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Speaker 1: There ends up being this lack of a shared reality

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Speaker 1: within this space. Because I might not feel that way.

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Speaker 1: It's like, well that's all I'm seeing. It's that whole

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Speaker 1: idea that if you don't have examples of other things,

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Speaker 1: it's hard for it to know that they exist or

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Speaker 1: to believe that they exist. And so I'm going to

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Speaker 1: think that everybody is like those loud voices that doesn't

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Speaker 1: have the voice that I have. And that leads into

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Speaker 1: the second piece of advice that they were giving on

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Speaker 1: this podcast. That leads into the second piece of advice

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Speaker 1: that they were giving on this podcast, and it was

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Speaker 1: basically to just address this problem to drown out the

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Speaker 1: extremism with louder, more normal voices. And the trouble here

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Speaker 1: is that everyone is so scared to talk about this

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Speaker 1: stuff because of the backlash partly that tends to come

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Speaker 1: from some of these convers because some of those loud

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Speaker 1: voices can be so harsh, and because like I said earlier,

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Speaker 1: we just have this idea that voices like maybe the

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Speaker 1: ones in our heads that aren't as extreme in every

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Speaker 1: single case. And when I say extreme, I mean extreme

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Speaker 1: on every issue. Because we don't have a lot of

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Speaker 1: examples of hearing those people talk. We just do not

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Speaker 1: think they exist. And so that leads into what I

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Speaker 1: was saying earlier. As we start these conversations not at

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Speaker 1: all or with our defenses really up, like we have

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Speaker 1: to be ready to fight. But if we're having conversations

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Speaker 1: with if we start these conversations at least with people

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Speaker 1: that we trust and respect, there's more space to hear

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Speaker 1: and more space to have a conversation versus a debate

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Speaker 1: and an attempt to persuade somebody. On the podcast and

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Speaker 1: in the book Democracy and Retrograde, they were calling the

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Speaker 1: majority of people that are not on the extreme sides

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Speaker 1: of the political spectrum the exhausted majority. And it's not

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Speaker 1: that they are moderate or something like that. It's more

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Speaker 1: that they just aren't extreme. They're the kind of people

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Speaker 1: that they don't know everything, and they don't have an

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Speaker 1: opinion on everything, and they don't know everything about everything

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Speaker 1: they have opinion about and maybe they don't align exactly

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Speaker 1: with one side of the spectrum or the other. And

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Speaker 1: that is the majority of people, but it seems like

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Speaker 1: they're the minority. And when you aren't on the extreme

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Speaker 1: of one side or the other, everything does not end

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Speaker 1: up being a moral crusade, and so the intensity of

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Speaker 1: things naturally is lower. It doesn't mean that you don't

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Speaker 1: have opinions on issues. It means maybe sometimes certain issues

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Speaker 1: are more important than others, and you know more about

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Speaker 1: certain things than other things. But not everything is a

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Speaker 1: moral crusade, and the intensity is going to be lower.

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Speaker 1: But I don't want not being extreme to then equal

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Speaker 1: people don't care, because you can still care. But I'm

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Speaker 1: learning is that those voices are really the majority of voices.

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Speaker 1: But the extreme voices are the ones that gain attention,

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Speaker 1: They get likes, they get follows. Those are the kinds

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Speaker 1: of voices that are really platformed for many reasons, and

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Speaker 1: the reason that it feels like the exhausted majority no

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Speaker 1: longer exists, or maybe for some people feels like they've

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Speaker 1: never existed, is because over time, algorithms have driven out

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Speaker 1: their voices completely because they aren't doing those things that

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Speaker 1: gain the like the attention visibility. They aren't following those

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Speaker 1: I want to use the word algorithms again, they aren't

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Speaker 1: following the strategies that these extreme voices have come to know.

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Speaker 1: So because we're not seeing them as much in our feeds,

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Speaker 1: we're not hearing those people. They're not platforming the person

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Speaker 1: that has a less intense opinion on an issue on

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Speaker 1: a limited spot on a news channel or on a debate.

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Speaker 1: You're not going to platform those voices. You're going to

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Speaker 1: platform the voices that feel the loudest and the most intense,

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Speaker 1: and so the other ones just they're not visible. Their

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Speaker 1: visibility is very low. And so I just want people

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Speaker 1: to realize that just because you're not seeing them, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean that they don't exist. But if we think

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Speaker 1: they don't exist, so then we do not have conversations

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Speaker 1: with those people. We're going to kind of solidify the

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Speaker 1: fact that they don't exist. And the call to action

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Speaker 1: here is to actually have conversations with the people that

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Speaker 1: aren't as again extreme or polarized, so you can start

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Speaker 1: to learn that you can have safe conversations with people

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Speaker 1: that can hear you and have space to understand you

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Speaker 1: and have space to like disagree and not really care

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Speaker 1: so much that you disagree. And if you and your

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Speaker 1: partner are not on opposite extremes, then I would imagine

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Speaker 1: that there are a space for both of you to

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Speaker 1: hear each other's sides and opinions that aren't always the

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Speaker 1: same as yours, and you can still respect them because

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Speaker 1: you respect them as humans. This doesn't mean that you're

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Speaker 1: going to agree with what they say. That is really

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Speaker 1: I think key here is what's the goal of these

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Speaker 1: conversations to agree or to hear and learn about the

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Speaker 1: other person. And I think if we want to walk

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Speaker 1: into these conversations in a safe way, we really want

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Speaker 1: to leave space for us to not know everything, which

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Speaker 1: I think is powerful. Oftentimes we feel like if we

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Speaker 1: want to speak about something or have a conversation about something,

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Speaker 1: we have to know everything, because what if we like

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Speaker 1: get God or somebody says something and we don't have

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Speaker 1: a rebuttal. That's okay. I really think there's power in

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Speaker 1: recognizing that you don't know everything. Therefore, if we want

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Speaker 1: to learn, we have to have conversations, right leaving space

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Speaker 1: for us to be curious, versus I have to figure

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Speaker 1: everything out before I can actually hear the voices of

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Speaker 1: the people around me. That sounds a little bit backwards,

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Speaker 1: right like that sounds like we're just going to put

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Speaker 1: ourselves in echo chambers before we allow to really allow

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Speaker 1: ourselves and the people around us to really have critical

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Speaker 1: thinking conversations. And these conversations are not debates. They are

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Speaker 1: a chance for you to hear and there are a

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Speaker 1: chance for you to be heard. So really looking at

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Speaker 1: and coming back to what the goal of those conversations

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Speaker 1: you want to have with the people around you might

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Speaker 1: be really important for you to come back to. I

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Speaker 1: do really like the idea that you mentioned of having

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Speaker 1: or creating some ground rules. Maybe there are certain hot

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Speaker 1: topics that you don't feel comfortable talking about with your

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Speaker 1: partner or just certain people. Maybe there are people that

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Speaker 1: you can talk about those things with, or maybe there's

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Speaker 1: topics that you know that you are not ready to

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Speaker 1: talk about because you just feel very protective or cautious

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Speaker 1: about those things. That's okay. You don't have to talk

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Speaker 1: about everything, right, Just to talk about some things doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean you have to talk about everything with everybody. Maybe

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Speaker 1: you don't talk about stuff if there's alcohol involved. And

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Speaker 1: maybe you have a word that you throw out when

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Speaker 1: you feel like you're getting overwhelmed. Or instead of saying

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Speaker 1: things like I hear you, but we say things like

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Speaker 1: I hear you and and that allows space to add

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Speaker 1: to the conversation and allows someone to continue to hold

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Speaker 1: their beliefs. That sends the message that I'm not trying

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Speaker 1: to debate you or persuade you that I'm right and

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Speaker 1: you're wrong. It's you have this space and I have

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Speaker 1: this space. We both can exist at the same time.

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Speaker 1: And as I'm closing this out, I'm coming back to

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Speaker 1: this idea that often these conversations are very hard to

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Speaker 1: be had because we view the person who doesn't agree

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Speaker 1: with us as a threat, a threat to our safety,

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Speaker 1: a threat to our security, a threat to us being

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Speaker 1: allowed to hold our own belief system. And there are

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Speaker 1: definitely times when this can be true, and maybe we

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Speaker 1: don't have these conversations with those people. But I'm going

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Speaker 1: to go out on a limb here and assume the

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Speaker 1: person that wrote this email that your partner and you

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Speaker 1: share some similar values at some level, and if you don't,

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Speaker 1: there would be other parts of the relationship that would

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Speaker 1: be very interesting in general that I would have some

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Speaker 1: questions about. So, how can you meet your partner around

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Speaker 1: those values in your conversations even when you don't agree

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Speaker 1: with your opinions? We can both have differing opinions on

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Speaker 1: an issue and come from the same value. We might

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Speaker 1: just see it differently, and that's okay. To come back

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Speaker 1: to the EYE value this and I value this could

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Speaker 1: be very helpful of like, we're coming from the same place,

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Speaker 1: we just see it in a different way. And instead

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Speaker 1: of wanting to attack that person or wanting to just

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Speaker 1: defend because you feel threatened, rather can you say, oh,

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Speaker 1: that person is wearing a different lens. I don't have

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Speaker 1: to wear those lenses and they don't have to wear

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Speaker 1: mine to both agree on this thing down here, And

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Speaker 1: that might be where the value is coming from. And

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Speaker 1: so like, it's okay if our values aren't all the same.

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Speaker 1: I think you're gonna if you're in a relationship like

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Speaker 1: a marriage with somebody, you're gonna have some common values,

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Speaker 1: but they don't all have to be the same, and

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Speaker 1: there are space for that and allowing space for that.

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Speaker 1: It's important. So if you guys have any questions or

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Speaker 1: comments or tips, or you know, if you've created some

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Speaker 1: boundaries or rules within your relationship to talk about these things,

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Speaker 1: I would love to hear them. I actually got a

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Speaker 1: couple emails about this topic when it comes to the

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Speaker 1: series I just started on Monday. This is for the therapists,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of the questions that in the emails

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Speaker 1: I got were talking about how to as a therapist

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Speaker 1: hold a neutral space when you disagree with what your

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Speaker 1: client's saying, and especially when the subject matter becomes more

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Speaker 1: common in the therapy room, right when there's big things

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Speaker 1: happening in the government in our country, that is going

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Speaker 1: to seep into you're processing and therapy as well. And

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Speaker 1: so people were asking, like, how do I maintain that

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Speaker 1: separation or a difference, how do I remain unbiased? And

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Speaker 1: I'm going to have some conversations about that because I

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Speaker 1: think it is not always the same answer. It can

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Speaker 1: be a little complicated, and it's our job to allow

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Speaker 1: space for all kinds of people to be welcome and

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Speaker 1: be heard. So I think it's important, and so I

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Speaker 1: think me saying that now is to share that that

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Speaker 1: is something that I think might add to this conversation. Right,

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Speaker 1: just because it's I'm going to talk about how to

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Speaker 1: do it as a therapist, it doesn't mean you can't

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Speaker 1: take that and apply that to life outside of the

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Speaker 1: role of a therapist, So look out for that if

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Speaker 1: you want some more on that topic. Keep in mind,

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Speaker 1: which kind of goes with what I'm saying. I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to be giving out or talking about my own

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Speaker 1: belief system. It's more about how to hold space for

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Speaker 1: the differences that are involved there. So again, I hope

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Speaker 1: this was helpful. You can send your feedback to Catherine

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Speaker 1: at You Need Therapy podcast. You can follow us at

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Speaker 1: You Need Therapy podcast and at kat van Buren, and

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Speaker 1: I will link that podcast that I was mentioning earlier

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Speaker 1: in our show notes. I hope you guys have the

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Speaker 1: day you need to have and I will be back

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Speaker 1: with you on Monday.