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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor Prediction of iHeartRadio. I'm any

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Speaker 1: Recent and.

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Speaker 2: I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode for

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Speaker 2: you about non dairy creamers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yes, Was there any particular reason this was on

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Speaker 3: your mind? Lauren?

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Speaker 2: Nope, Nopeurse, I love it. Yeah, I think I had been.

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Speaker 2: I'd been looking for kind of weird like like like

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Speaker 2: product like industrial product brand kind of episodes and just

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Speaker 2: sort of came across the concept of non dairy creamers,

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Speaker 2: and my it was just one of those moments where

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Speaker 2: my brain was like, how do those work? What is

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Speaker 2: that about? Why? So here we are?

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Speaker 1: I feel like things like that, do uh catch your

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Speaker 1: interest Lauren?

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Speaker 2: Where it's like, h yeah, that sounds that sounds ridiculous

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Speaker 2: right in the name, Like what like what are we

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Speaker 2: doing there? Why did humans decide that that's a thing?

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Speaker 3: Okay, And it's there's quite a lot going on. I'll say.

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Speaker 1: I'm not generally a creamer person. I'm a coffee black person.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, okay, yes, but oh listeners of the

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Speaker 1: show will know I do not like grocery shopping, but

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Speaker 1: I am an expert at making grocery list so I

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Speaker 1: often make grocery lists for when we go on vacation

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Speaker 1: with my friends. Okay, yes, and I have learned I

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Speaker 1: have a section now that's like not for me.

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Speaker 3: People want creamer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, people who are into it are so into it,

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Speaker 2: and I respect that. I've never been. I it depends

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Speaker 2: on the coffee. For me, if coffee is good coffee,

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Speaker 2: Like if I've just like ground whole beans from a

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Speaker 2: decent source and I'm you know, drinking that, I'm a

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Speaker 2: coffee black person. But if it's not that, I usually

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Speaker 2: put some milk in it and buy milk. I mean,

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Speaker 2: at this juncture, extra creamy oat milk that is my

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Speaker 2: beverage of choice to adorn my coffee with.

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Speaker 1: A dairy industry is gonna come knocking on your door, Lauren.

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Speaker 2: I'm afraid. I am slightly afraid of the dairy industry.

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Speaker 2: Every time they come up, I'm like, wow, they are intense.

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Speaker 2: Okay that they are. Yeah, more on that in the

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Speaker 2: history section. But yeah, I know, very occasionally, like if

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Speaker 2: someone else has purchased a non dairy creamer and it's

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Speaker 2: in some kind of goofy flavor, I'll like look at

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Speaker 2: it and go like, I don't think I'm going to

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Speaker 2: enjoy that, but I'm definitely gonna try it. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: just don't like sweet coffee as the thing. So anyway, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I want to do better, right.

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Speaker 1: I think I've talked about this before, but I have

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Speaker 1: a whole list of Star Wars cocktails. One of them

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Speaker 1: is a coffee based drink. I believe it does. Samantha

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Speaker 1: created it over from stuff I've never told you in

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Speaker 1: friend of the show. She created it, and I believe

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Speaker 1: it does have a non dairy creamer in it. It's

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Speaker 1: got something going on. But yeah, it's like not that's

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Speaker 1: a special occase and drink. I would not make it myself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean you know it's they just they

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Speaker 2: they emulsify really well. They're not going to clump up

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Speaker 2: potentially with the addition of alcohol or something acidic the

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Speaker 2: way that dairy would.

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Speaker 3: Mmmmmmmm. Well see our past dairy episodes.

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Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, maybe like a karaginine other stuff.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: That's a great record, I guess sure, there you go. Great,

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Speaker 2: that's a much better recommendation than other stuff.

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Speaker 3: Thanks.

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Speaker 1: See your other episodes. You get to pick and choose

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Speaker 1: your own adventure. Well, well, I guess this.

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Speaker 3: Brings us to our question, I guess it does non

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Speaker 3: dairy creamer what is it?

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Speaker 2: Well, non dairy creamers are a more complicated version of

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Speaker 2: what it says on the box. They are stuff that

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Speaker 2: you can add to other things to make them creamier,

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Speaker 2: and they are not technically made of dairy. What they

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Speaker 2: are made of can vary. You're you're you're looking to

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Speaker 2: mimic the experience of cream, which is, you know, an

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Speaker 2: opaque white liquor with a smooth, rich, slightly sweet flavor

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Speaker 2: and texture. And you can get to there from like

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Speaker 2: a lot of different roots, but you've usually got some

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Speaker 2: kind of fat or fat substitute, some stabilizers and emulsifiers, colorants, sweeteners,

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Speaker 2: sometimes other flavorings, and often a key ingredient a cacinate,

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Speaker 2: which is a protein extracted from milk. You don't always

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Speaker 2: have that in there. There are some vegan versions, okay.

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Speaker 2: Non dairy creamers come into basic formats, powdered or liquid.

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Speaker 2: The powdered forms are shelf stable. The liquids more frequently

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Speaker 2: require refrigeration, but can come in shelf stable formulas too.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, they are used to add creamy texture and

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Speaker 2: flavor to hot or cold drinks, especially coffee, by either

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Speaker 2: manufacturers or consumers, and to bring that flavor and texture

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Speaker 2: to packaged foods during processing. When meant for coffee, they

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Speaker 2: do often come with the additional flavorings along the like

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Speaker 2: candy or dessert spectrum, like vanilla, hazelnut, chocolate, stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: And yet they're real convenient, especially when they're shelf stable,

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Speaker 2: and since they don't contain dairy, they can be suitable

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Speaker 2: for people who don't consume dairy for whatever medical or

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Speaker 2: other personal reason. They're like cream but not uh to

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Speaker 2: crib a line from Douglas Adams. They are almost, but

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Speaker 2: not quite entirely unlike cream. There they are earnestly this

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Speaker 2: scientific marvel of humans engineering a very basic agricultural product

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Speaker 2: out of a number of things up to and including

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Speaker 2: that product. They're like if Frankenstein's Monster made your coffee

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Speaker 2: taste like Girl Scout cookies.

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Speaker 3: All that's a fun image in my mind.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad that was a fun one and not a

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Speaker 2: horrifying one.

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Speaker 3: No, because I like to think of him being like, oh,

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Speaker 3: would you like to try some hazelnut?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you monster. Yeah, that's great, sounds lovely.

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Speaker 2: A thing I didn't know is that these are sometimes

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Speaker 2: called coffee whiteners or lighteners, and those are just amazing terms.

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Speaker 2: I can't believe I've never heard him called that.

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Speaker 3: I heard that either, but it's like when you hear it,

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Speaker 3: you're like, yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I guess that's technically what it does. Sure, Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 2: let's talk about those ingredients. So first, first, this milk

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Speaker 2: derivative of caseinates. These are forms of casin that you

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Speaker 2: wind up with when you remove casin from milk. Casin

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Speaker 2: being the main protein in like milk and cheese. It's

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Speaker 2: also what makes milk opaque white. Once you've separated curds

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Speaker 2: from whey in milk, you can treat the curds to

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Speaker 2: extract the casin in a number of different ways that

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Speaker 2: give you these like slightly different casinate compounds. One called

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Speaker 2: sodium casinate is really popular because it plays so nice

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Speaker 2: with water. It's one that's usually dried and powdered. It's

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Speaker 2: useful as like an emulsifier and a stabilizer and adds

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Speaker 2: a little bit of color, and it shows up in

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Speaker 2: all kinds of processed foods like ice cream, cheese, margarine, chocolate, candies,

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Speaker 2: baked goods, protein supplemented stuff like protein powders or whatever,

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Speaker 2: and non dairy creamers, and the presence of caseinates is

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Speaker 2: why many non dairy creamer labels disclose that they contain

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Speaker 2: milk products. Most people who are intolerant of dairy have

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Speaker 2: a reaction to lac taste, which is a sugar in milk,

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Speaker 2: which would not be in a non dairy creamer unless

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Speaker 2: the manufacturer put it in there for some reason. But

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Speaker 2: caseinates can set off dairy allergies, so it's important to

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Speaker 2: note that that presence of milk products on the label,

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Speaker 2: and for you know, anyone who otherwise doesn't eat dairy. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: if you're making a vegan creamer, other proteins like pea

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Speaker 2: protein can be used instead. And if you're using a

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Speaker 2: base of like soy, almond or oat, you know, those

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Speaker 2: things all have some of those like color and stabilization

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Speaker 2: properties as well, and stuff like a gums or carre

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Speaker 2: gene can help with the texture. Other ingredients include sweeteners,

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Speaker 2: because cream is not bitter. Often you've got corn syrup

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Speaker 2: or derivatives thereof, or some kind of sugar free sweetener.

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Speaker 2: Then some kind of vegetable fat like from coconut, soy

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Speaker 2: or palm, then a multifying and stabilizing agents if it's

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Speaker 2: a powder, an anti caking agent, maybe additional colors and

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Speaker 2: or flavors. And yep, the shelf stable types are really

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Speaker 2: popular in specific foods service sectors like hotel and catering

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Speaker 2: and travel office supply, you know, because like you can

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Speaker 2: buy in bulk, you don't need to refrigerate it. You

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Speaker 2: don't need to worry about the product going off very

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Speaker 2: quickly and not which which brings like just I don't

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Speaker 2: really have like a like a science note about this,

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Speaker 2: but the the entire cost factor of these products is

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Speaker 2: super interesting to me because they are definitely more expensive

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Speaker 2: than fresh dairy in places where fresh dairy is available,

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Speaker 2: but they're considered a cheaper alternative because they last longer,

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Speaker 2: which I suspect to do to the sugar content. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: research has shown that liquid non dairy creamers can last

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Speaker 2: like forty five to ninety days in the fridge, and

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Speaker 2: that is certainly not how long cream lasts. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: sometimes with cream, I feel like you're lucky to get

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Speaker 2: a week.

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Speaker 3: So I get home and it's already off.

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Speaker 2: You're you're like, you're like how how why another thing

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Speaker 2: I have a suspicion about. Okay, this is my this

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Speaker 2: is my slight conspiracy theory of the episode. I suspect

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Speaker 2: that the reason that a lot of these like kind

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Speaker 2: of fancy flavored non dairy creamers are need to be

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Speaker 2: refrigerated is that, like they could have made them shelf stable,

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Speaker 2: but they wanted to put them next to the cream

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Speaker 2: in the supermarket.

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Speaker 1: Oo.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I genuine that that's interesting. I genuinely think that's

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Speaker 2: what's up.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting. You're thinking about grocery placement. I had not

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Speaker 1: considered that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, because a consumer might go like, oh, that

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Speaker 2: means that it's made of food and not industrial stuff, right, yeah, right, anyway, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's I mean it could also there could also be

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Speaker 2: like a like a texture, flavor, consumer preference issue between

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Speaker 2: the shelf stable types and the refrigerated types. There is

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Speaker 2: a lot of research about that, by the way. Yep, anyway, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: these products are also used in food processing to add

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Speaker 2: creaminess to shelf stable packaged foods like dried powdered things

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Speaker 2: like soups, hot coca mixes, and liquid products like tea

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Speaker 2: and coffee drinks. You know, like a latte style things.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm, okay, well what about the nutrition?

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Speaker 2: Oh, it can really vary depending on what the product

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Speaker 2: in question is made of. And and like, look, everyone's

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Speaker 2: got their own things going on. I mean, I mean,

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Speaker 2: like in general applicable to what we're talking about here today,

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Speaker 2: in terms of nutrition, we've all got different dietary and

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Speaker 2: lifestyle needs, right and speaking widely. When you have the

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Speaker 2: opportunity to consume foods that are less processed, that's probably

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Speaker 2: better for you. If you can use fresh cream or

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Speaker 2: like some kind of concentrated almond or coconut or say

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Speaker 2: or rice milk that has not been processed to be

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Speaker 2: shelf stable, that's going to be preferable in most dietary cases.

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Speaker 2: It's going to contain more stuff your body needs and

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Speaker 2: less stuff it doesn't. That being said, man, if something

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Speaker 2: more processed, like a non dairy creamer makes your life

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Speaker 2: easier or otherwise better, that's great. If putting like fat free,

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Speaker 2: sugar free peppermint mocha coffee mate in your morning coffee

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Speaker 2: makes you happy, I want you to do that every day.

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Speaker 2: Like we have to pick our battles in this world, y'all.

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Speaker 2: That got really existential for the non dairy creamer episode.

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Speaker 1: I feel like you're allowed about to lead me to

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Speaker 1: the gates more okay with my peppermint mocha coffee made. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then I'm like, wait peppermint.

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Speaker 2: Oh oh, it's like yeah, yeah, but.

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean. Well, we do have one

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Speaker 3: number for you.

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Speaker 2: We do. Uh. The global market for non dairy creamers

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Speaker 2: is worth around two billion dollars a year or more

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Speaker 2: or less. I saw a bunch of different numbers. That's

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Speaker 2: as of twenty twenty three, and but everyone does agree

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Speaker 2: that's growing. Apparently China and Germany are really key growth

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Speaker 2: markets here we are. Yeah. I did read a number

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Speaker 2: of other numbers, but some of them seemed really suspect.

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Speaker 2: There was one There was one from Ansley brand website

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Speaker 2: that seemed to have like like it said. It said

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Speaker 2: like the statistic, and then in parentheses after the statistic

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Speaker 2: it said source question mark, which makes me think that

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Speaker 2: someone just pasted an editor's note that they needed to source. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so I didn't. I didn't include that, probably for the best. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but nslie.

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Speaker 3: Fix that and other things.

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Speaker 2: A lot of other things probably yeah, yes, yeah, Well.

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Speaker 3: Uh, we do have quite some history behind this one.

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Speaker 2: We do, and we are going to get into that

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Speaker 2: as soon as we get back from a quick break

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Speaker 2: forward from our sponsors.

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Speaker 1: They we're back, Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so separate episode slash episodes probably, probably, but the history

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Speaker 1: of plant based milk products goes way back. One of

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Speaker 1: the first known instances of it in the written record

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Speaker 1: appeared in fourteenth century CE out of China, referencing so

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Speaker 1: milk soy milk. Within a few centuries, milk made from

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Speaker 1: soybeans was a staple throughout the country, and it had

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Speaker 1: made its way to the US by eighteen ninety seven.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, almond milk first popped up in

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Speaker 1: the written record in the thirteenth century and was an

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Speaker 1: ingredient in Egyptian cookbooks by the fourteenth century. This non

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Speaker 1: dairy product made its way to England by thirteen ninety,

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Speaker 1: where it was popular during wint lent comes up all

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Speaker 1: the time.

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Speaker 3: Yep.

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Speaker 1: Sometime during the nineteenth century it had hopped over the

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Speaker 1: ocean to the United States, so the interest in non

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Speaker 1: dairy products like creamer has long been around since. If

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Speaker 1: not stored correctly, milk tends to spoil can make people sick.

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Speaker 1: We've done a lot of episodes about that. With urbanization

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Speaker 1: and industrialization in places like the US, there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of interest in figuring out an alternative, perhaps especially

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Speaker 1: amongst Seventh day Adventists, and there were some well known

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Speaker 1: people pushing for these non dairy options, including Henry Ford,

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Speaker 1: who in a nineteen twenty one article said, quote, our

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Speaker 1: laboratories have already demonstrated that cow's milk can be done

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Speaker 1: away with and the concentration of the elements of milk

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Speaker 1: can be manufactured into scientific food by machines far cleaner

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Speaker 1: than cows and not subject to tuberculosis.

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Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, Henry heck and Ford, y'all.

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Speaker 2: It's he shows up all the time. I mean, i mean,

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Speaker 2: he definitely. You know, he's certainly the most anti Semitic

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Speaker 2: person who ever revolutionized industry.

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Speaker 1: So so keep that in the back of your head.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, Okay, that's a different show. That's a

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Speaker 2: number of different shows, probably, But yeah, no, he didn't

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Speaker 2: like cows. He didn't like horses, and he didn't like cows.

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Speaker 3: He didn't like horses either, that's true, which is part

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Speaker 3: of where the car goes.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, he was like these are inefficient. We could

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Speaker 2: be doing everything more efficiently.

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Speaker 3: Let's get rid of these horses. Let's get rid of

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Speaker 3: these cows.

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Speaker 1: Well, about a decade later after he made this statement,

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Speaker 1: he built a soy milk plant in Dearborn, Michigan. At first,

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Speaker 1: its primary purpose was research, and none of the resulting

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Speaker 1: soy milk was sold. During World War II, one of

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Speaker 1: the developers of the process took over production and started

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Speaker 1: selling the soy milk. If you want, there is a

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Speaker 1: lot more. There's a lot more minutia, like very specific

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Speaker 1: detail about everybody who worked there and what they ended

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Speaker 1: up doing. But yeah, they were doing they were really

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Speaker 1: experimenting with it and seeing what they could do with it.

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Speaker 3: So there's that.

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Speaker 1: But stepping back a bit, the Kelloggs, Yes, those kell

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Speaker 1: Hoogs come up in this history too. In nineteen oh four,

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Speaker 1: Seventh Day Adventist and wife of doctor John Harvey Kellogg,

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Speaker 1: Ella Kellogg debuted the first known recipe for non dairy

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Speaker 1: whipped cream. Yep, she did a bunch of other stuff

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Speaker 1: after that too, but that was kind of her start,

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Speaker 1: And yeah, a bunch of non dairy innovations followed in

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Speaker 1: the pursuing decades. Non dairy frosting, non dairy cottage cheese,

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Speaker 1: things like that. Okay, so yes, as we kind of

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Speaker 1: alluded to earlier, obviously, the dairy industry historically haven't been

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Speaker 1: the biggest fans of this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: No, that's like putting it mildly.

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Speaker 1: Beginning in at least nineteen forty five, the dairy industry

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Speaker 1: started issuing lawsuits around non dairy products. One of the

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Speaker 1: first flurry of lawsuits began after the American entrepreneur Bob

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Speaker 1: Rich invented a soy based whipped topping also called coffee whiener.

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Speaker 1: Not only was it a dairy substitute, it had the

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Speaker 1: positive that it could be whipped after being frozen, meaning

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Speaker 1: he could ship his product across the country, which apparently

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Speaker 1: he discovered by.

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Speaker 3: Accident and was like, oh yes, oh yes.

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Speaker 1: The dairy industry fired back with a whopping forty two

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Speaker 1: lawsuits alleging that it was an imitation dairy product. Rich's

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Speaker 1: legal team successfully won every case by arguing it was

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Speaker 1: not imitating but a replacement. Yes, and that did happen

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Speaker 1: over I think several decades, but it happened over, it

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Speaker 1: didn't happen immediately.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, you can see have we done an

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Speaker 2: episode on Margarine? Am I imagining that? Was that a fever?

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Speaker 3: I believe we have?

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, but well, if we'd have, then you can

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Speaker 2: see our episode on Margarine for more on that. If not,

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Speaker 2: then we'll have to do one in the future.

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Speaker 1: Yes, another fun messing with the dairy industry.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, but.

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Speaker 1: Note the date of the beginning of this flurry of

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Speaker 1: lawsuits nineteen forty five, because during World War Two a

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Speaker 1: lot of dairy went towards the soldiers fighting overseas, leading

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Speaker 1: to an increased demand for a substitute. Yes, non dairy

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Speaker 1: coffee creamer debuted in the nineteen fifties, the first becoming

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Speaker 1: commercially available in nineteen fifty. It was a product called

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Speaker 1: Mocha Mixed Coffee Creamer later renamed Mocha Mix Non Dairy Creamer,

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Speaker 1: and it was a product of a company called Presto

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Speaker 1: Food Products, and a few others followed over the ensuing decade.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Simultaneously, other companies developed powdered cream not non dairy

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Speaker 2: like actual cream products, for example pream They Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: they never really worked as well, and they did disappear

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Speaker 2: over the next decade or so. But uh, one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: I included this note. Well, it's interesting, but also because

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Speaker 2: of the name Pream, I just wanted. I wanted to

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Speaker 2: say the name Pream. It's one of those mid century

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Speaker 2: product names that I'm like, I'm like, am I am

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Speaker 2: I am? I in fallout? Right now? Is this a joke?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: No, you were serious. Oh you were deadly serious about Pream.

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Speaker 3: I love it. Oh, I love it, so I am.

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Speaker 3: I'm glad you included it.

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Speaker 1: Carnation debuted Coffee Mate in nineteen sixty one. Still, though

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Speaker 1: non dairy creamer was illegal in some states until the

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventies due to that whole imitation argument.

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Speaker 2: Beautiful Nesle's brand Cremora, launched in South Africa in nineteen

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Speaker 2: seventy and much later became became an important part of

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Speaker 2: the toolkit of home pyrotechnic enthusiasts because non dairy creamer

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Speaker 2: powders are highly flammable when they are airborne. If you

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Speaker 2: get enough air mixed in there, you can just set

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Speaker 2: them right on fire and create a huge fireball. And

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Speaker 2: that is still in some places, regardless of the brand

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Speaker 2: you use, referred to as a Cremora fireball.

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Speaker 3: Wow. I did not know this.

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Speaker 2: Don't try that at home, kids. Annie's absolutely about to

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Speaker 2: try that. Would never try that in an open area

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Speaker 2: outside with safety equipment and an adult.

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Speaker 3: I don't count as the adult. You don't. That's fair,

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Speaker 3: that's fair, that's fair, all right, all right, all right.

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Speaker 2: Okay, moving on. In the nineteen eighties, amid concerns about

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Speaker 2: cholesterol from animal fats having a negative effect on cardiovascular health,

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Speaker 2: there was a huge boom in consumer use of non

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Speaker 2: dairy creamers and rel non dairy product products like the

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Speaker 2: aforementioned margarine. Of course, a lot of them were and

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Speaker 2: are made with hydrogenated vegetable oils, which we now know

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Speaker 2: are also bad.

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Speaker 3: So yep. And then in recent years, due to the

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Speaker 3: rise of lactose intolerance, veganism and vegetarianism and shifting preferences,

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Speaker 3: non dairy creamer has seen significant growth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Globally, there's also an increasing middleish class of people

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Speaker 2: who are more able to spend money on small luxuries

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Speaker 2: like coffee drinks, and so you know, we've seen an

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Speaker 2: expansion of some of these brands into those developing markets.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, right, And Lauren and I were talking about before,

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Speaker 1: because I tried to get to the bottom of how

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Speaker 1: we ended up with just like a Shmorgus board of

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Speaker 1: all of these different flavored little coffee creamers at gas stations.

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Speaker 1: And you made the excellent point that it probably has

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Speaker 1: to do also with the rise of things like Starbucks

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Speaker 1: or yeah.

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Speaker 2: That entire cafe culture and like sweetened coffee products specifically.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean I don't know, you know, like

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Speaker 2: a lot of people, you know, for a lot of humans,

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Speaker 2: like bitter is not a preferred flavor, and so if

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Speaker 2: you're drinking coffee, you want to sweeten it a little

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Speaker 2: bit or make it creamy or both, or flavor it

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Speaker 2: with something like Girl Scout cookies. And and yeah, that's

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Speaker 2: that's a normal human thing to want to do. And

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Speaker 2: treats are nice, as we say all the time, and

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Speaker 2: if it feels like a treat, you're probably more likely

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Speaker 2: to buy it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, because I was saying, like, even if I don't

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Speaker 1: put creamer in a lot of times, I'll be like, oh.

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Speaker 3: We'll get that flavor.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, it feels so special even though it's exciting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we are very easily like most humans, we are

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Speaker 2: very easily led by marketing.

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Speaker 3: That is true. That is true.

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Speaker 1: Or just something that I'm like, oh, I've never had

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Speaker 1: that flavor before. Let's see how like, Oh no, I

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00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 1: don't like it, but I'm glad I tried it.

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00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, that being said, I would love to hear from listeners.

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Speaker 3: From around the world.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, different of these flavors, these non dairy creamer flavors.

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Speaker 1: If you have favorites, if you have anything that's really

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Speaker 1: unique that you've.

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Speaker 2: Tried, if you yeah, if you absolutely despise them.

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Speaker 3: Sure we send us those strong opinions.

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Speaker 1: Yes, always, always, always, But I think that's what we

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Speaker 1: have to say about non dairy creamers for now.

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Speaker 2: It is. We do already have some listener mill for you, though,

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Speaker 2: and we are going to get into that as soon

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Speaker 2: as we get back from one more quick break for

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Speaker 2: a word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 3: And we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you, and

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Speaker 3: we're back with listnoo fake is Tine giving you a

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Speaker 3: nice little top off of your Cooper. I'm ready for Halloween.

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Speaker 1: I know, because I complained about Christmas encroaching too early,

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Speaker 1: and here I'm like Halloween.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, September first is Halloween time.

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Speaker 1: A lot of diesel probably be a little coated towards Halloween.

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Speaker 2: I'm in.

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Speaker 3: I knew you would be all right.

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Speaker 1: Eric wrote the Prickly Pair episode was fun, at least

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Speaker 1: one circus elephant of fun. I've never had anything sweet

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Speaker 1: with it, but it sounds wonderful, especially that lemonade. I've

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Speaker 1: had it in tacos before, and it added this really

434
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: unique flavor. It was a pork taco and a soft

435
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: flower shell with just a little cootilla and grilled prickly

436
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: pear gave it a real nice sort of earthiness. The

437
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: restaurant also had a prickly pear sasa. It hit differently

438
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: and in a good way. It had this full bodied

439
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: savoriness to it that you just wanted to eat slowly

440
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: and really savor the taste. Unfortunately, the restaurant is nowhere

441
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: near me, being about nine hours away.

442
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 3: Oh.

443
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: I have seen frozen paddles of it in stores occasionally,

444
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: and after hearing this episode, I'm going to keep my

445
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: eyes open and get some. Next time, I'll grill it

446
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: up and make my own tacos and salsa. Learning more

447
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: about Joyce Chen was interesting. I recall her name, but

448
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: I cannot recall the show at all. I have had

449
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: one of the stir fryands for over thirty years now,

450
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: since we always had an electric range and that worked

451
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: better than a walk.

452
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 3: Treat it right and it will last. Finally, as promised,

453
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 3: the cookie table from my daughter's wedding this weekend. Yes,

454
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 3: it's amazing.

455
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: The first shot is a wide shot of the initial setup.

456
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: We had someone refreshing the cookies as they went down.

457
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: The second is a close up to show the Pittsburgh theme,

458
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: a bridge and Mister Rogers trolley. I only had a

459
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: brief time to get these shots. The table was refreshed

460
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: probably every five minutes for over an hour. We had

461
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 1: boxes off to the side for people to take them home.

462
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: All in all, still a smaller one that probably totaled

463
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: about one hundred and fifty to one and seventy five dozen.

464
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: We did cheat on a few as we got some

465
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: smiley faced cookies which are symbolic of the area from

466
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: the restaurant, as well as getting specially made Terrible towel cookies.

467
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 3: You can see the smiley faced ones on the bridge.

468
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 3: If you zoom into the bridges in the middle of

469
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 3: the first you can see the towels. Look this is

470
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 3: an amazing cookie setup.

471
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 2: Oh yes, I love that y'all had a system.

472
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 3: Yes, this sounds it sounds like it's necessary.

473
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 2: Like a like a veritable ballet of cookies was occurring here,

474
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 2: a smaller one that only totaled one hundred and seventy

475
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 2: five dozens.

476
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 3: A dozen is what threw me.

477
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 2: So good, Oh my gosh. It also congratulations to your

478
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 2: daughter and the whole family. That's that's yes, that's lovely.

479
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 2: And what a great excuse for a cookie table.

480
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: Yes, and I didn't realize that was mister Rogers and

481
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: the trolley until you mentioned it.

482
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 3: Also re see again above Halloween. Those candles, a set

483
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 3: of three candles a vibe for me haunted.

484
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:08,719
Speaker 2: Perhaps I've never heard of terrible towel cookies before, but

485
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 2: but yeah, I haven't heard.

486
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 3: Of them either, But I am intrigued. I like it.

487
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 2: It is apparently it pit's from a very brief Google search.

488
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 2: It appears to be a thing, and I believe it's

489
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 2: related to the stealers.

490
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 3: All right, I yeah, that makes sense, but we'll have

491
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 3: to look into it. We'll have to investigate further on that.

492
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 2: Absolutely breaking down the important questions. Yeah, Julie wrote, I

493
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 2: just listened to the prickly pear cactus episode and had

494
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 2: to write in again. With all the topics you cover

495
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 2: that I've never heard of, I enjoy when you cover

496
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 2: one that I actually have quite a bit of experience with.

497
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 2: Having been with my Mexican husband for almost twenty years,

498
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 2: I've eaten and prepared so much nopalles. It's one of

499
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 2: my husband's favorite foods. We usually buy the cactus leaves

500
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 2: from our local Hispanic grocery, where they have already removed

501
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 2: the spines. I have a few ways that we cook them.

502
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 2: One is to make several cuts lengthwise from the tip

503
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 2: to around two thirds of the length, and then grill

504
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 2: them until slightly charred. They're less slimy. This way. We

505
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 2: usually serve them along with carne sada, salsa, guacamali, and

506
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 2: whatever other sides we've prepared. Another common preparation is cactus salad.

507
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 2: Cut the cactus into strips about a quarter inch thick

508
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 2: by half an inch long, Boil for a few minutes.

509
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 2: It will darken in color when cooked. Make sure you

510
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 2: watch the pan while it's boiling, because it can easily

511
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 2: boil over. Not sure why, but whatever makes it slimy

512
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 2: builds up on top of the water.

513
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 3: I'll leave it to.

514
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 2: Luren to figure out the science. Anyway. After it's boiled,

515
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 2: let it cool in a bowl in the fridge. Once cooled,

516
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 2: add dice tomatoes, onions, chops, the Lontro helipen you if

517
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 2: you want. I've seen people add diced radish too eat cold.

518
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 2: One final preparation my husband has made was boiling it

519
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 2: like you would for salad, but then adding it to

520
00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 2: a frying pan with cooked codfish and a Gohio chili salsa.

521
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 2: I know this is already long, but I wanted to

522
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 2: let you know I was in Atlanta again last week.

523
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 2: Four years ago. I traveled there for the first and

524
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 2: only other time, and had written to you to ask

525
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,720
Speaker 2: for recommendations and places to eat and what to see.

526
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:14,879
Speaker 2: Annie was kind enough to send me her map, which

527
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 2: I used both times, since COVID hit right after I

528
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 2: got home last time. I don't think I ever wrote

529
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 2: that first trip to tell you all the places I

530
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 2: ate at and saw from your map. If I remember correctly,

531
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,280
Speaker 2: I tried sublime donuts, Chai pani, a lot of fruita

532
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 2: and pancake social. Not sure if that one was on

533
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 2: your list, but you had mentioned it on the show.

534
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 2: I also visited the Aquarium, World of Coke In, the

535
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 2: Center for Civil and Human Rights, Ponsti Market, and crog

536
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 2: Street Market. I figured it was better late than never

537
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 2: to finally let you know this time. When I went,

538
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 2: I didn't have a rental car, so I did mostly

539
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 2: Uber Eat deliveries to the hotel, but did ride Marda

540
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 2: out to qua Quong bon Me and out to East

541
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 2: Lake to Lafonda, Latina. Because Chuck and Josh recommended it

542
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 2: on their Salsa episode. I ordered in from Chai Pani,

543
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 2: Pancake Social and des To Ethiopian Kitchen. Wanted to thank

544
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 2: you again for your recommendations. Everything was delicious. Oh and

545
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 2: I also got to see all the MLK Junior Historical

546
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 2: Sites and the Oakland Cemetery this visit. Oh wow, Lot,

547
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 2: you're busy.

548
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,919
Speaker 3: Heck, yes, hats off to you.

549
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all of that is fabulous though. Oh man, Yeah, oh,

550
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 2: I'm glad that you got got some takeout from Desta Desta's.

551
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 2: I love Ethiopian and we've got some really good Ethiopian

552
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 2: restaurants around town. That's that's an excellent one. Good humans too. Yeah.

553
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: I had some for my birthday near ish. I was like,

554
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: you know what, yeah, I really wants.

555
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 2: So yeah, oh yeah, and right, all of those places

556
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 2: are are lovely filled with lovely humans and an Oakland Cemetery.

557
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 2: If you couldn't tell about me from being I don't know.

558
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe I don't mention that I'm goth that often

559
00:35:58,239 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 2: on the show, but I'm a little bit heck in

560
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 2: goth and so yeah, Oakland Cemetery is one of my

561
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:03,720
Speaker 2: favorite places around town.

562
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 3: They know you're a vampire, Lauren. You're not fooling anyone anymore.

563
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 2: Look, just because I don't go out in the sun

564
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 2: and I can't eat garlic doesn't mean.

565
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 3: I mean it's a little suspicious.

566
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 2: Low. Yeah.

567
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 1: We've talked about this before, but this is one of

568
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: our favorite things about this show is how eager people

569
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: are to share, like, yeah, you're.

570
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 3: Going to where I'm from, We've got to try this.

571
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: And it's something when we were traveling, like every time

572
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: we would get to a new city, someone would be like, immediately,

573
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: here's where you gotta go.

574
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. We would be like in the lift on the

575
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 2: ride to the hotel and the driver would be like,

576
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 2: oh man, or like the it's always the first team

577
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 2: and that we interact with in a new city. We're like,

578
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: we just got here. They're like, let me tell you

579
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 2: what to eat?

580
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 3: So good.

581
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's nice to be on that other side

582
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: for someone.

583
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 3: Also, all of these cactus recipes.

584
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 2: Oh yes, oh my goodness. We do have a lot

585
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 2: of really good Hispanic grossers around town and so I

586
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 2: will need to look out for them in those.

587
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, oh I can't wait. I can't wait. Well.

588
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 3: Thank you to both of those listeners for writing in.

589
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,479
Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us, you can

590
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,240
Speaker 1: Our email is hello at savorpod dot com.

591
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 2: We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,

592
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 2: and Instagram at saver pod, and we do hope to

593
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 2: hear from you. Save is production of iHeartRadio. For more

594
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 2: podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,

595
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

596
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 2: Thanks us always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and

597
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 2: Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope

598
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 2: that lots more good things are coming your way.

599
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 3: Yeah,