1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:06,479 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern. 3 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg 4 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 2: Business App. 5 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: We're listening on demand wherever you get your podcast. 6 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 3: This field of twenty twenty four candidates, it really does 7 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 3: just keep getting bigger. We've got former Vice President Mike Pence, 8 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 3: of course, with a new campaign ad today from his 9 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 3: super pack. We've also got some more competition from him, 10 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 3: of course, former New Jersey Governor Chris Christy, North Dakota 11 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 3: Governor Doug Burg And we're going to talk about all 12 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 3: of that on our show today. But first we're going 13 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 3: to focus on who's in office right now with President 14 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 3: Joe Biden. And here to discuss that is our White 15 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 3: House correspondent and our resident Canadian, Josh Wingrove joining me 16 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 3: from DC. Josh, thank you so much for chatting with us. 17 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 3: Before we get to the news in your neck of 18 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 3: the woods, I just want to check in, how's the 19 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 3: family back in Canada's everyone okay? 20 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: Fake? 21 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 4: I'm sorry, sorry, you know for all this smoke. It's 22 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,959 Speaker 4: just everywhere. We're watching out for our personal safety here 23 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 4: in Washington, right now, yeah, it's pretty bad. Unfortunately, it's 24 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 4: still really bad up there, which signals that we're in 25 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 4: the thick of it here down in the States for 26 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 4: a few days yet to come, probably, Yeah. 27 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 3: And President Biden and Canadian Prime Minister Trudeau talked about 28 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 3: this a little bit last night. Is there any update 29 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 3: on what the White House is doing to help out 30 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 3: with these fires? 31 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 4: There is not. It's a little conspicuous. 32 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 2: It was. 33 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 4: They put out a statement saying Biden, you know, was 34 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 4: ordering them to sort of search the cupboards for whatever 35 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 4: else they could maybe send to put out these fires. 36 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 4: But there hasn't really been a clamoring from Canada for 37 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 4: more resources. These fires are just you know, huge, and 38 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,839 Speaker 4: they're just having trouble tackling it all. So whether they'll 39 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 4: actually send stuff, we'll see. But Chuck Schumer Joe Biden 40 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 4: are saying, hey, if there's anything we can send, let's 41 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 4: do it. This of course is normal for them to 42 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 4: cooperate during wildfire season, but I think just goes to 43 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 4: show that the fire fighting capacity might not be sufficient 44 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 4: if we continue to see record fire season after record 45 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 4: fire season. So but you know, across that bridge when 46 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 4: we get to it. But right now they pledging cooperation, 47 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 4: but we'll sort of see the proof in the pudding. 48 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,559 Speaker 3: Many Yeah. Yeah, Well, let's talk about what President Biden 49 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 3: has been up to very recently here meeting with UK 50 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 3: Prime Minister Rishi Sunak talking about AI regulation. Sunac really 51 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 3: wants to be the global watchdog for AI. Here's what 52 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,799 Speaker 3: he had to say to President Biden today. 53 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 5: Our economies are seeing perhaps the biggest transformation since the 54 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 5: Industrial Revolution, as new technologies provide incredible opportunities but also 55 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 5: give our adversaries more tools for harm. The one thing 56 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 5: I know won't check confident work change is the strength 57 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 5: of our partnership. 58 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 3: Of our friendship, all right, so the strength of their 59 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 3: partnership coming up there. But my question is why would 60 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 3: the White House want the UK to own AI regulation 61 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 3: when this is just going to be such a huge, 62 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 3: huge industry group and also the US is kind of 63 00:02:58,520 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 3: owning it right now. 64 00:02:59,760 --> 00:02:59,959 Speaker 1: Yeah. 65 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 4: I think that they're focusing on what they can maybe 66 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 4: cooperate on rather than what they can In other words, 67 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 4: I think the Prime Minister is almost ordering a la 68 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 4: carte off the menu, because if you're rewind a little before, 69 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 4: what he would have loved to come here to talk 70 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 4: about is a free trade agreement where the US and 71 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 4: UK could talk about all kinds of industries, including but 72 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 4: not limited to AI, you know, where they can cooperate 73 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 4: in where they can reduce or even eliminate of course, 74 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 4: tariff barriers. And Biden just shown no interest in that. 75 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 4: And this is now two prime ministers in a row 76 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 4: that have sort of run into a brick wall when 77 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 4: it comes to the notion of a free trade agreement 78 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 4: with the US, and so they have to sort of 79 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 4: pivot to whatever they can talk about it. And so 80 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 4: we're going to see that. We're going to see if 81 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 4: we expect talk about Ukraine Aid of course in the 82 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 4: aftermath of the damage to that dam coming up in 83 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 4: about half an hour until the two leaders, the President 84 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 4: and Prime Minister are due to speak, So we'll see. 85 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 4: But candidly, you know, this is a relationship that goes 86 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 4: back a long time between the countries, so called special relationship. 87 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 4: That title is really important to Britain. They don't want 88 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 4: to be sort of lost in the shuffle when as 89 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 4: far as the US ties go. But Joe Biden has 90 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 4: not been all that cozy with Prime Minister Sunak or 91 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 4: his conservative predecessors has been cold, but he hasn't been 92 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 4: too warm either, and so I think I think he's 93 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 4: hoping for sort of baby steps, and if those baby 94 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 4: steps are some sort of cooperation agreement on AI, they'll 95 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 4: take it because the alternative is maybe a closed door. 96 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 3: Well, Prime Minister Sunag has really made the case that 97 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 3: Brexit is completely a non issue, non factor for the UK, 98 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 3: but I wonder how true that is from where Biden 99 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 3: is sitting. Is that part of the cause behind this 100 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 3: little touch of iciness, Yeah, I think a little bit. 101 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 4: You know, there's a lot of factors to it. The 102 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 4: sort of parent theology of the Conservative Party in the 103 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 4: UK stems a lot from thatcher Biden dunks on Ronald 104 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 4: Reagan and Reaganism all the time. You know, he just 105 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 4: sort of doesn't necessarily want to open the door entirely, 106 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 4: and not to put too final a point in it, 107 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 4: but there were some ruffled feathers when Biden went to Ireland. 108 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 4: He began his strip in Northern Ireland and then went 109 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 4: to the Republic of Ireland. Biden, of course very proud 110 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 4: of his Irish heritage and sort of left a little 111 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 4: bit of a chilled feeling among the UK Press that 112 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 4: he sort of you know, barely touched down in the 113 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 4: UK and then was off to Ireland without really so 114 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 4: much as a prolonged hello. So, you know, if it's 115 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 4: sort of is like simmering tension in the background, But 116 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 4: I don't think we'll see any of that today. These 117 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 4: leaders tend to sort of, you know, bite their tongues 118 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 4: on these kinds of things. But you know, we'll see, 119 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 4: we'll see. But it doesn't mean that they aren't in 120 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 4: lockstep on things like Ukraine. And of course one of 121 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 4: the big questions is how much appetite do Western countries 122 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 4: have to continue, you know, funding, providing equipment, providing supplies 123 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,239 Speaker 4: to this. You know, there's some questions marks in Congress 124 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 4: about whether has Speaker McCarthy will be able to sort of, 125 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 4: you know, garner support for ongoing supplemental packages, to boost funding, 126 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 4: to renew funding, to extend funding for Ukraine. So that's 127 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 4: one of the ones simmering in the background, and that 128 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 4: one the UK and US are in lockstep on. 129 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 3: Well, on funding. Josh. As we wrap up our conversation here, 130 00:05:57,920 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 3: I just want to know how much easier did your 131 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 3: life forget after the debt limit deal. 132 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 4: What a release step, the relief that was. 133 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,479 Speaker 3: I pulled up your bylines and I was pleased to 134 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 3: see that you took a couple of days of break 135 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 3: after after constant posting for the last couple of months. 136 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 4: My pregnant wife was pleased as well about that, as 137 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 4: so you know, we're they're in the clear now. This is, 138 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 4: of course great. We saw Treasury's cash pile recover at 139 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 4: the beginning of the week and that really sort of 140 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 4: lifted the pressure. Now the question is kind of where 141 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 4: they go from here. That that limit is suspended until 142 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 4: twenty twenty five, so we could be going through this 143 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 4: all this fight again in twenty twenty five, whether that 144 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 4: is a re elected Joe Biden or a recently elected 145 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 4: Republican president in that scenario. So we'll see. And they've 146 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 4: sort of mused a little bit with well in the meantime, 147 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 4: can we sort of kick the tires a little bit 148 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 4: on whether the fourteenth Amendment gives Biden the power to 149 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 4: say forget it. You know this, this dead ceiling is 150 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 4: not worth it. I'm invoking the fourteenth Y're trying to 151 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 4: and we're not. We're never going to do this again. 152 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 4: Peep about that. So right now we're out of the 153 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 4: woods at least until twenty twenty five. But the question 154 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 4: of whether Biden will try to sort of, you know, 155 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 4: never enter the woods again and look for whatever duels 156 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 4: you can find to invalidate this thing that is an 157 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 4: open one right now. So we might be back into 158 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,679 Speaker 4: our national nightmare of the debt seeming standoff once more. 159 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 3: Well, we've got a couple of years for your newborn 160 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 3: to grow up a little bit before we put you 161 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 3: back into the thick of it. Josh, thank you so much, 162 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 3: as always, always a joy to get to speak with you. 163 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 3: We're going to continue this discussion and we're gonna dive 164 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 3: into the AI question mark a little bit more. Here 165 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 3: we've got Dave Weisberger. He's CEO and co founder of 166 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 3: coin Routes that's a provider of institutional crypto trading software, 167 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 3: and he's joining me to discuss this whole AI watchdog 168 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 3: fight that we were just talking about with Josh. Dave, 169 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 3: great to speak with you, Thanks for coming on the show. 170 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 3: Give me your take on this Biden SUNAC meeting. Do 171 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 3: you think the US should be letting the UK take 172 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 3: the lead it on AI regulation? 173 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 6: I mean, no is the short answer. I look, at 174 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 6: the end of the day, the thread that matters here, 175 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 6: whether it's AI or other emergence technologies, is regulation should 176 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 6: be aligned to understanding two critical principles that I think 177 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 6: that Sunak is more unfortunately, you know, more up to 178 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 6: speed on. First, align with the incentives in that particular industry. 179 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 6: Now it depends on the industry or what it is, 180 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 6: but you want to understand if you're going to be 181 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 6: looking for open source developers, how you want to incentivize them, 182 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 6: if it's a global product, how you allow to get 183 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 6: you know, get you know, basically you get the people involved. 184 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 6: The other is not relying upon form over substance. A 185 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 6: lot of what's been going on in multiple industries in 186 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 6: the United States is we have a regulary structure that's 187 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 6: been built up over years and years and years that 188 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 6: pre dated the technology. And so you have a new 189 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 6: technology with AI that there are multiple touch points with 190 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 6: regulation that could be a problem. I mean, you know, 191 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 6: and so it is it is really incumbent to understand. 192 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 6: I mean, the most important thing with AI that everybody 193 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 6: needs to understand is something that every computer programmer is taught, 194 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 6: like in their first year. It's called garbage in, garbage out. 195 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 6: And so if you train a model based upon bad data, 196 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 6: bad things happen. So there's an enormous it's enormously important 197 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 6: to be able to get good data and checking and 198 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:33,959 Speaker 6: the freedom to be able to do that. And then 199 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 6: companies are going to literally compete in this space for 200 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 6: having the best cleanest data for use in their AI models, 201 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 6: et cetera, et cetera. But doubt think about how information 202 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 6: regulations work in our country and how copyright law works. 203 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:47,839 Speaker 6: It's all going to be fascinating. 204 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, what's also always fascinating, I'm sure you get 205 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:55,319 Speaker 3: a kick out of it, is hearing Congress on these 206 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 3: issues when it comes to tech, social media and crypto 207 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 3: of course, which we're going to talk about, and AI. 208 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 3: From where you sit, how well positioned is Congress to 209 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 3: understand the fundamentals of AI when asking questions about and 210 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 3: writing legislation around regulation. 211 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 6: Congress is not monolithic, That's the important thing here. There 212 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 6: are many staffers on many of the committees that really 213 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 6: do a great job digging and digging and digging. I mean, 214 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 6: we saw recently last week there was a historic agreement. 215 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 6: I know, it's not AI, it's digital assets. But the 216 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 6: Agriculture Committee and the Finance Committee working together to start 217 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 6: to create a framework and they did a lot of 218 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 6: work on that and is it perfect No, is it 219 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 6: a great start. 220 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 7: Yes. 221 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 6: With AI, you need the same thing. It's very interdisciplinary. 222 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 6: There's not going to be a committee on AI. There's 223 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 6: going to be committees so that regulate you know, different 224 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 6: information sources like that regular the FCC. That's very important 225 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 6: because information is the input. And then depending on the 226 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 6: use case for what the AI is going to be, 227 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 6: it could be in banking for you know, financial, it 228 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 6: could be pharma, it could be medicine, it could be 229 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:09,479 Speaker 6: lots of things. And it's really important for intersectional cooperation 230 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 6: among committees and staffers to get to the bottom of it. 231 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 6: And that takes a lot of time and a lot 232 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 6: of work, and it's not that easy. It doesn't it 233 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 6: doesn't resolve itself to a Twitter SoundBite, which makes it 234 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 6: hard to get to get past. 235 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, no, that's actually that's really well said and 236 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 3: a great point. I do need to pivot over to 237 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 3: crypto here. Today we heard from the SEC's Gary Gensler 238 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 3: really blasting crypto firms for what he called unregistered staking. 239 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 3: So let's let's talk about Binance in particular here from 240 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 3: where you sit and we're just getting your opinions or 241 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 3: in the crypto space, Where did Binance go wrong? What 242 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 3: was the single biggest mistake that they made? 243 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 6: Well, not a lawyer, I've read the filing, I obviously 244 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 6: know you know a lot about what goes on in crypto. 245 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 6: I think that Binance in particular has been the most 246 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 6: opaque of all of the major firms, and so it's 247 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 6: hard for me to comment on firsthand information. What I 248 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 6: can say is it seems pretty clear that Binance US 249 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 6: was not given and afforded the ability to manage themselves 250 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 6: separately from Binance the mothership. Yet that's what they claimed. 251 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 6: So I think that there are some issues with disclosures 252 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 6: that are pretty clear. The biggest problem with all of 253 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 6: this is that, with all due respect to shared Chensler, 254 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 6: the fact is the vast majority of crypto projects, forget 255 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 6: the exchanges for heartbeats, have no path for registration that works. 256 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 6: Because you were asking about regulation in AI, it's true 257 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 6: in digital assets, and it's true in digital assets that 258 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 6: are working with AI. The idea of being able to 259 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 6: incentivize developers and users to work with a project, often 260 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 6: they list a token. The problem is that there is 261 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 6: no way in the United States to list a token 262 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 6: in that scenario because you can only do that for 263 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 6: accredited investors, which are rich people, and most developers aren't rich, 264 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 6: and so the laws are not set up for it. 265 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 6: There's no way to do the right disclosures, etc. So 266 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 6: the biggest fight between Finance and Colinbase and others with 267 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 6: the SEC is that a lot of the coins the 268 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 6: sec claims or securities now I use the word claim 269 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 6: because it's going to have to go to court don't 270 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 6: have a path for registration that would be workable, and 271 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 6: so they don't know what to do, and they've been 272 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 6: asking what to do, and that's a big problem. The 273 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 6: other problem is that the markets themselves. Finance as a 274 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:42,239 Speaker 6: market structure, if you look internationally, has many innovative features 275 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 6: that are not allowed in the United States. 276 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 3: Yes, well, I want to talk exactly about that because 277 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 3: I know you're also an equities guy, So I got 278 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 3: to ask the Bloomberg question here in our final minute together. 279 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 3: Do you see AI as big competition for the crypto market? 280 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 3: It kind of feels like the same audience. Are we 281 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 3: going to see money flowing out of crypto into AI stocks? 282 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 6: I think that, well, that's an interesting question. I think 283 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 6: that the net market value of using digital assets and 284 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 6: AI is going to be explosively higher than today. I'm 285 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 6: not going to say that the existing companies doing it 286 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 6: are the ones who will necessarily capture that market value. 287 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 6: So I don't see it as a competition. I see 288 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 6: as a rising tide lifts all boats. Make no mistake 289 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 6: the analog financial system that the US has the best 290 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 6: market in, we will not be the best market when 291 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 6: the rest of the world goes to a digital financial 292 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 6: system which actually works with things like AI, which is 293 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 6: a global process far better. And so the real issue 294 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 6: is for US as a country is to get ahead 295 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 6: of understanding how to support innovation across all of these industry. 296 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 3: Puboraneously great interview, Dave, Thank you so much. We really 297 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 3: appreciate it. That was Dave Weisberger, CEO and co founder 298 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 3: of coin Routes. Stick with us here. This is sound On. 299 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us 300 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one eastern on Bloomberg dot com. 301 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 2: The Ironheart Radio app and the Bloomberg Business app. We're 302 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 2: listening on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 303 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 3: Him Madison Mills here in for Joan Matthew in New 304 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 3: York City. We're going to talk about this twenty twenty 305 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 3: four presidential candidate pool because it does just keep getting bigger. 306 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 3: We're now up to ten major candidates, and that's likely 307 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:34,359 Speaker 3: to keep growing. We might see Miami mayor Francis Suarez announcing, 308 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 3: among others in the weeks to come. Former President Trump 309 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 3: still pulling at just above fifty percent, So can these 310 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 3: other candidates move the needle? Here? We're starting to see 311 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 3: what the campaign strategy might look like. Former Vice President 312 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 3: Mike Pence's Super Pack just came out with their first 313 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 3: squarely anti Trump ad and then really focused in on 314 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 3: January sixth, completely comparing in control trasting former President Trump 315 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 3: with former Vice President Mike Pence tick a listen. 316 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 8: And an anxious nation watching for one man to do 317 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 8: what's right. A weak man of peace is a mob. 318 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 8: A man of courage and character stands up to them. 319 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 8: That day, one man failed the test of leadership while 320 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 8: another stood tall. 321 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 3: All right, So Pence's super Pack really going in on 322 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 3: Trump they're using the word week in that description. So 323 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 3: we're going to talk about that strategy with our expert panel. Here. 324 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 3: We've got Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie Schanzano and Rick Davis 325 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 3: joining me. Now, Genie, I want to start with you 326 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 3: here more broadly, when you look at this upcoming election, 327 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 3: is it another election that's really going to be defined 328 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 3: by Trump? Whether that's the candidates like Chris Christy who 329 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 3: are going full attack or the Pences who are going 330 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 3: a little bit softer. But does it all ultimately just 331 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 3: go back to Trump? 332 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 9: Well, it does because Trump is leading by double digits. 333 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 9: He is a former president who is running again. He 334 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 9: certainly hasn't cleared this field. As you talked about Madison. 335 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 9: We're looking at ten twelve potentially viable candidates in this thing. 336 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 9: But the reality is there are you know, a few 337 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 9: lanes here. You've got about ten to fifteen percent of 338 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 9: the Republican electorate who's anti Trump. That's a very narrow lane. 339 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 9: And then you've got about fifty to sixty percent who 340 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 9: want an alternative to Trump and about thirty who are 341 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,120 Speaker 9: with him until the end of time. And so where 342 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 9: these candidates fit themselves. Is a really interesting problem for 343 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 9: them because an alternative to Trump does not mean they 344 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 9: are anti Trump, and that is what these kind of 345 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 9: superpack ads and other things present a real challenge for 346 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 9: these candidates if they come out too strongly against him. 347 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly right, Genie, and I really want to 348 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:56,880 Speaker 3: dig into that a little bit more. 349 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 10: Here. 350 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 3: We had billionaire Stanley drucken Miller speak at Bloomberg invest 351 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 3: yesterday about Chris Christie's strategy. Let's take a listen to 352 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 3: what he had to say. 353 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 11: I'm kind of excited about Chris Christy taking on Donald Trump. 354 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 11: The others like dance around the subject. They don't even 355 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 11: use his name. I think somebody needs to hit him 356 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 11: in the mouth or the way he hits people in 357 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 11: their mouth, and Chris Christie could be very good at that. 358 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,199 Speaker 3: All right, So Rick, come on in here. How do 359 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 3: you rate the Chris Christi campaign strategy of the mouth 360 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 3: hitting that Stanley was describing. 361 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 12: Well, every presidential candidate gets punched into mouth, and Donald 362 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 12: Trump's going to get his share. And I would disagree 363 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 12: with Stanley. I mean, I don't think actually it's the 364 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 12: state of the campaign right now. Chris Christi is by 365 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 12: far and away the most vociferous attacker of Donald Trump. 366 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 12: But if you look at the pens ad that they 367 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 12: just posted, and his whole strategy for his rollout was 368 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 12: actually to contrast with Donald Trump. He didn't contrast with 369 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 12: Nicky Haley or Tim Scott or any of these other people. 370 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 12: He went right after his old boss. And now you see, 371 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 12: you know other candidates, certainly the leading challenger to Donald Trump, 372 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 12: Governor DeSantis, really going after him both with his super 373 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 12: pack and directly on the stump. So I think the 374 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 12: days of Donald Trump getting the pass by the Republican 375 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 12: field is over. And I think it's a recognition that 376 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 12: if they want to find the lane, like everybody likes 377 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,160 Speaker 12: to talk about, that lane, as Chris Christie says, all 378 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 12: goes through Donald Trump. So until they are able to 379 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 12: chip away at his support, they're not going to be 380 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 12: able to garner much on their own. 381 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 3: So Genie, come back in here, and I want to 382 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,479 Speaker 3: talk about DeSantis, who Rick just just brought up. Where 383 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 3: are we at with DeSantis as the key competition to 384 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 3: to Trump and do we think that he can win 385 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 3: on the issues that Trump voters care most about? Can 386 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 3: he get that market share of those voters. 387 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 9: You know, he had a week, you know, a early 388 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 9: difficult time the first few months, but since he has 389 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,360 Speaker 9: rolled out, his numbers have been getting a bit stronger, 390 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 9: particularly in the all important state of Iowa. So I 391 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 9: do think Ron DeSantis is one of those candidates, you know, 392 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 9: in my mind, very much like Barack Obama, who is 393 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 9: getting stronger on the campaign trail. It's still early, but 394 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 9: seems to be getting stronger. And so, you know, and 395 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 9: he is going after Trump. But I think what he 396 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 9: is doing smartly, it's he's hitting back when Trump hits him. 397 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,239 Speaker 9: You compare him to somebody like the Veake Ramaswami, who 398 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 9: is not going after Trump at all. 399 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 3: The Bake is. 400 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 9: Turning his guns on de Santis, trying to essentially clear 401 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 9: that second place, so potentially he could jump in there. 402 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 9: So it's an interesting strategy, and you know, I agree 403 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 9: with Rick. You know, the strategy you see the Bake 404 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 9: doing is a bit different than what we see almost 405 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 9: all the other candidates doing, which is going after Donald 406 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 9: Trump as the number one candidate. He's been very careful 407 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 9: so far not to tack him head on. So we're 408 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 9: going to see a variety of sort of different strategies 409 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 9: that they are putting out there. Chris and who knew 410 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 9: the governor of New Hampshire. I think said it right. Though, 411 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 9: this many candidates helps Donald Trump. Hopefully they clear the 412 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,479 Speaker 9: deck soon, so it's essentially a one on one versus 413 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:17,919 Speaker 9: a twelve on one. 414 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,439 Speaker 3: Well, Geenie really quickly with you. I'm curious about the 415 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 3: polling because I've been scarred for life. I was working 416 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 3: at the New York Times in twenty sixteen, so that 417 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 3: needle is something that haunts me to this day. How 418 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 3: can I think smarter about the polling as I'm covering 419 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 3: this election? And what do I need to think differently 420 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 3: about compared to previous elections? 421 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:42,919 Speaker 9: Yeah, I too am scarred medicine. 422 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 3: I know what you mean. 423 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 9: I think the two big takeaways our number one, this 424 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 9: is a state by state race, So the better polling 425 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 9: we get out of the states, that's where to focus 426 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 9: at this point versus the national polls. And the other 427 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 9: thing is to always look at good polls in compilation, 428 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 9: not just as one point in time. And I think 429 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 9: if you do that, you get a general picture versus 430 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,719 Speaker 9: a one poll which can be highly misleading. Again, at 431 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 9: this point, the national polls in a primary are misleading 432 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 9: because these voters are going state by state, and Iowans 433 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 9: and New Hampshire rites are much more focused than people 434 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 9: in other parts of the country at this point. 435 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 3: Well, Jeanie, you perfectly helped me segue into my next 436 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 3: question here for Rick, what early state are you going 437 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 3: to be watching the closest to sess out where this 438 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 3: election is going? 439 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 12: Well, I must say that I think we're back to 440 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 12: having to talk about Iowa here. We thought with the 441 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 12: slipshot job they did in twenty twenty that ultimately we'd 442 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 12: be able to bypass that Midwest state as a critical 443 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 12: barometer of success, but not this year. This field is 444 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 12: all doubling down on the state of Iowa. And you 445 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 12: would expect two things to happen. One, you'd have some 446 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 12: of these campaigns not make it to Iowa, right, So 447 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 12: that would reduce the field to some degree just out 448 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 12: of the fact that they or either broke or have 449 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 12: no support, can't get into a debate. But then out 450 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 12: of Iowa, you're really looking to see who finishes first there. 451 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 12: Donald Trump got beat in twenty sixteen by Ted Cruz 452 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,959 Speaker 12: in Iowa and very well could be beat by somebody 453 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 12: else this time around, which would be a bad start 454 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 12: for a former president. And regardless of what the field 455 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 12: looks like, and you always look at the ticket like 456 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 12: are you going to get a ticket out of Iowa? 457 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 12: And that usually means first and second place, but if 458 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 12: the field is still big, it may actually go to three. 459 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 12: And then the guy who's not going to Iowa, Chris Christy, 460 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 12: will be sitting there a week later waiting for everybody 461 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,880 Speaker 12: in New Hampshire. This field will reduce down significantly by 462 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 12: the first two weeks, which means Iowa, New Hampshire. And 463 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 12: then the question is is there a consensus non Trump 464 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 12: candidate that's still going to be able to garner that 465 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 12: kind of support. 466 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 3: So final thirty seconds with you, Rick, is that mistake 467 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 3: of not going to Iowa for Chris Christy going to 468 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 3: be the thing that kills him? 469 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: Here? 470 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 12: Well, Iran McCain's campaign and we didn't go to Iowa 471 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 12: and won the nomination. So I like the idea bypassing Iowa. 472 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 12: And I'm a little surprised there aren't more than Chris 473 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:07,880 Speaker 12: Christy who are doing the same thing. 474 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 3: Interesting, Okay, so you think maybe that's a good thing 475 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 3: for his campaign. 476 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 12: Well, it's always a jumbled message coming out of Iowa, 477 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,959 Speaker 12: and it's a dangerous place because I mean, arguably, if 478 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 12: you can't catch fire in Iowa, it doesn't necessarily mean 479 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 12: you're not qualified to be president. So I let Iowa 480 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 12: decide that. And so I like the idea of mixing 481 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 12: it up. But most of these campaigns, there are really 482 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,160 Speaker 12: one state campaigns right now trying to figure out they 483 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 12: can they try to beat Donald Trump in any state. 484 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. Rick, 485 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for your insights, and you as well, 486 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 3: Jeanie Shanzay, and we're gonna come back to our panel 487 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 3: throughout the show. They always make us so much smarter 488 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 3: and honestly make me better at my job with their insights. 489 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us 490 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the 491 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business App, or listening on 492 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts. 493 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,400 Speaker 3: All right, folks, I'm Madison Mills here in New York. 494 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 3: We got to talk about this upcoming election, and a 495 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 3: group that could decide that election is rural voters. So 496 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 3: to help us understand this group a little bit more. 497 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 3: We've got a fantastic reporter to come in here. This 498 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 3: is Christian Hall. You can read Christian's piece on the 499 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 3: terminal or on Bloomberg dot com. It's titled Rural voters 500 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 3: seek economic plans from Democrats they gave up on Christian, 501 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining us. When I saw 502 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 3: this story this morning, I literally printed it out on 503 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 3: paper because I was so excited to read it and 504 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 3: knew how important it was going to be. Talk to 505 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 3: me about your reporting for this. Where did you go 506 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 3: and who did you speak with? 507 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 13: Well? 508 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,640 Speaker 14: I was in West Virginia for about a week trying 509 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 14: to get a better understanding as to how a state 510 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 14: that at one point was as blue as California could 511 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 14: transition deep ruby red Republican read faster than any other 512 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 14: place in the country. I spoke to lawmakers voters trying 513 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 14: to get a better on understanding about how this shift happened. 514 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 3: And what was the biggest theme that you took away 515 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 3: from your reporting about why this why that shift did happen? 516 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 14: Well, there were two factors that I would hear a lot, 517 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 14: the economy and social issues. Voters really stress that they 518 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 14: are in economic pain, and their concerns that national Democrats 519 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 14: just don't understand the economic pain that they are facing. 520 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 14: I mean, I was in McDowell County where more than 521 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,199 Speaker 14: half of the people, half of the residents in this 522 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 14: county depended on social programs just to get by. The 523 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 14: US Census designates the McDowell County as a place that's 524 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 14: in deep poverty. So people were really feeling the brunt 525 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 14: of a tough economy and that was really one of 526 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 14: the concerns that was brought up a lot. 527 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,439 Speaker 3: And one of the parts of your story that I 528 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 3: found really interesting is when you talked about LGBTQ issues 529 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,719 Speaker 3: and things that one particular candidate, Florida Governor Rond Deasantas, 530 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 3: has brought up a lot and really made kind of 531 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 3: the center of his campaign is is these culture wars. 532 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 3: In the conversations that you had with voters, did you 533 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 3: get a sense that the anti woke strategy was going 534 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 3: to be effective in getting this voting block? 535 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 14: Oh? Absolutely. I remember I spoke to this one voter 536 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 14: and she was telling me that, you know, she calls 537 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,959 Speaker 14: herself a liberal, she said, on issues of critical race theory, 538 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 14: queer issues. She you know agrees with the Democratic Party, 539 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,239 Speaker 14: but she also said that her husband gets SSI and 540 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 14: she was saying that, you know, she just worries that 541 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 14: she can't get a job because if she does, she 542 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 14: would lose access to you know, this how she makes 543 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 14: her living. One of the most striking images that I 544 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 14: saw when I was in the town was there's a 545 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 14: walmart that was shut down and people in the town 546 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 14: said that, you know, the store just wasn't making enough money. 547 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 14: So that voter that I spoke to who mentioned the 548 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 14: social issues, I mean, you know, even though she has 549 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 14: with Democrats, the economy is definitely more of a concern 550 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 14: for her. 551 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, the other big elephant in the room, of course, 552 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 3: is how the voters you spoke with feel about Trump's 553 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 3: campaign and his former presidency as well. What was the 554 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,439 Speaker 3: reaction you got when speaking about former President Trump? 555 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 14: You know, people really received Trump very well. I mean, 556 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 14: if you look at the electoral map, Donald Trump managed 557 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 14: to win every single county in this state of West 558 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 14: Virginia in twenty sixteen and twenty twenty. I would talk 559 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 14: to voters and they said that, you know, they had 560 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 14: voted for Democrats, their parents voted for Democrats. Their grandparents 561 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 14: voted for Democrats. But there was something about Donald Trump's 562 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 14: message that really resonated with these voters. 563 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 3: Hmmm, that's really interesting. Did you get a sense for 564 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 3: the specifics of that message. Was it because your broader 565 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 3: story is really about just the importance of the economy. 566 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 3: Was Trump's messaging on economy the thing that got the 567 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 3: voters or was it a different part of Trump's strategy 568 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 3: that got them? 569 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 14: You know, I think Trump did a really good job of, 570 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 14: you know, resonating with these voters by saying that, you know, 571 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 14: you feel forgotten, I see you. Trump campaigned heavily in 572 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 14: West Virginia, something that Democrats really haven't done in rural communities. 573 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 14: I think the national thought is that rural communities vote 574 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 14: for Republicans and this is a voting block that they 575 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 14: just can't went back. But Trump really went out on 576 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 14: the ground started talking to these voters. I think that 577 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 14: the economic concerns are really you know, undergirding a lot 578 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 14: of the concerns that these voters had. But the Republican 579 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 14: Party did a very good job of messaging on social 580 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 14: issues to really win them over. They already knew that 581 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 14: voters were concerned about their economic prospects. But when they 582 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 14: brought up things like critical race theory and you know, 583 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 14: lgbt QIA issues, you know, those things really resonated with rural. 584 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 3: Voters absolutely well, Christian, thank you so much for the story, 585 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 3: for talking to us about it, and you're reporting really 586 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 3: incredible just to get a sense of what's happening outside 587 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 3: of Washington with voters in these rural areas. I want 588 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 3: to go to our panel here and I want to 589 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 3: go to Eugenie because you have a quote that Christian 590 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 3: just kind of pointed to from his story about rural 591 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 3: voters just feeling that Democrats don't understand the pain that 592 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 3: they're in. Can Democrats change that at this point. 593 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 9: They certainly can. It's gonna be an investment, as Christian 594 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 9: just said, And by the way, I was so thrilled 595 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 9: he did this piece because to me, this is one 596 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 9: of the most important issues that Democrats don't focus on. 597 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 9: Nineteen ninety six, Bill Clinton, Clary nearly half of rural counties. 598 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 9: Twenty twenty, Joe Biden just seven percent. So it is 599 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 9: a huge, huge number. It is a huge loss. And 600 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 9: you know, I think the reality is number one, you 601 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 9: have to spend time. You have to visit number two. 602 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 9: You have to tell a story full of villains and 603 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 9: full of heroes as to why people are in the 604 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 9: condition they're in. And to Christian's point, you have to 605 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 9: feel their pain. People in pain want to know that 606 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 9: you empathize with them, that you don't look down at them, 607 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 9: and that you are prepared to fix it. And that 608 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 9: is something that Donald Trump and the Republicans in these 609 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 9: communities have done very well. Democrats have to play catch up. 610 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 9: I think twenty twenty two showed they're starting to, but 611 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 9: there's a long way to go. 612 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 3: Well, Rick, come on in here in our final minute 613 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 3: and then we'll come back to you all throughout the 614 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,239 Speaker 3: rest of the show. Talk to me about whether this 615 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:37,719 Speaker 3: sense of forgetfulness or being forgotten rather amongst rural voters, 616 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 3: is that something that is going to continue to be 617 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 3: passed on to the next generation of rural voters, or 618 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 3: is this something that might sort of start to trickle off. 619 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 12: You know, Look, I think these things have moments in time, 620 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 12: and this is clearly a moment in time. Another moment 621 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 12: in time was in nineteen sixty four, after the Civil 622 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 12: Rights Act passed and Southern African Americans became Democrats and 623 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 12: huge amounts. There's no question Donald Trump was able to 624 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 12: activate rural America, you know, with his grievances and you know, 625 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 12: his feeling like the system was against you. And the 626 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 12: only thing I would say is like, if President Biden 627 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 12: isn't empathetic enough, then no president is going to be 628 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 12: empathetic enough to get these voters back. 629 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 5: Yeah. 630 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 12: Downside, it's a declining population. Yeah, this is the first 631 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 12: time in the last ten years. Yeah that rule America 632 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 12: has gotten smaller, so it is not that good an asset. 633 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. All right, Well, thank you so much, Rick Davis 634 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 3: and Genie Schanzano. This is actually the last we'll hear 635 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 3: from you in today's show, so thank you so much 636 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 3: for coming on as always, but stick with us here 637 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 3: on sound on. This is Bloomberg. 638 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us 639 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern. 640 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg 641 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 2: Business app, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 642 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 3: All right, everyone, we are actually in New York today, 643 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 3: both Kaylee Lines and myself. You're listening to Madison Mills 644 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 3: here but we're still going to cover all of the 645 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 3: DC ongoings from up here. Kaylee, it is so great 646 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 3: to see you here in New York City again. Thanks 647 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 3: for joining us. All Right, we've got a great interview here, 648 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 3: so we're going to kind of dive right in. We've 649 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 3: got Brian's style. He is the US Representative for Wisconsin, 650 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 3: Wisconsin's first district, Republican chair of the House Administration Committee 651 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 3: as well, and we're going to talk to him about 652 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 3: a couple of different topics, from Ukraine to crypto and 653 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 3: I think he is with us on the phone now. 654 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining us. Representative. I want 655 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 3: to start off with you on the explosion of AI 656 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 3: because I'm really interested in how Congress could prepare to 657 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 3: respond to this. What do you think is one thing 658 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 3: that Congress should be doing right now to prepare for 659 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 3: the further explosion of AI. 660 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 13: I think we need to be looking not only at 661 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 13: the risk that AI proposes, but also a lot of 662 00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 13: the opportunity. I've been speaking with a lot of help 663 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 13: care leaders in this space. Sure, there are risks that 664 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 13: it brings to the table, there's also huge benefits, in 665 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 13: particular in some of the predictive analytics on the healthcare side, 666 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 13: and if we really look at the drivers of our 667 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 13: nation's deficit, it's really in large part of healthcare spending. 668 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 13: And so I'd like to also not only be thinking 669 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 13: about the challenges their faces, but also some of the 670 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 13: opportunities that may bring to improve productivity and efficiency in 671 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:25,800 Speaker 13: our economy. 672 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,799 Speaker 10: As we talk about productivity and efficiency, and Congressman, it's Kaylee. 673 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,719 Speaker 10: Nice to speak with you again. I'm wondering as well 674 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 10: about just the efficiency of the body in which you 675 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,319 Speaker 10: sit at the moment, because I don't know where you 676 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,400 Speaker 10: are coming to us from today, Congressman, but I know 677 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 10: a lot of your colleagues were sent home early by 678 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 10: the Speaker. There's been quite a loge gem in the 679 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,279 Speaker 10: House because a few members of the Republican Caucus have 680 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 10: decided to hold things up, maybe just a retaliation against 681 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 10: the Speaker's debt ceiling deal that he negotiated. Is the 682 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:56,839 Speaker 10: House in order, Congressman. 683 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 13: The House of Representatives operate like a giant family, and 684 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:03,800 Speaker 13: I described it as if you had four hundred and 685 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 13: thirty five members of your family over for Thanksgiving. On occasion, 686 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 13: there would be a little bit of disagreement about how 687 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 13: to operate at a regular pace. We have a few 688 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 13: people who are being a little challenging right now. You'd 689 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 13: rather suffer your indignities in private than in public. But 690 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,799 Speaker 13: fair enough, there's going to be challenges on this long 691 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 13: family road trip. But at the end of the day, 692 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,240 Speaker 13: what we've proven is that when push comes to shove 693 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 13: on the major pieces of legislation, we have the ability 694 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 13: to get it done. Not only did we elect Speaker 695 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 13: McCarthy as our speaker, albeit after a few days, but 696 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 13: we also got through the Limit Save Grow Act, the 697 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 13: Republican initial proposal that forced President Biden to come to 698 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 13: the table and negotiate, and then at the end of 699 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,319 Speaker 13: the day we passed with over two thirds of our 700 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 13: conference a bill that cuts spending by two trillion dollars, 701 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 13: grows the economy, and saves taxpayers money. So, yeah, this 702 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,399 Speaker 13: is a bump in the road on a long family run. 703 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 10: But Congressman, that's all things that you've done to this point. 704 00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,400 Speaker 10: I just wonder how much realistically you're going to be 705 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 10: accomplished going forward if there is the potential for just 706 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 10: a few members to be holding up the procedural workings 707 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 10: of this House. 708 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 13: We're going to operate this whole Congress with the threat 709 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 13: that somebody could bring a motion to vacate on a 710 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,320 Speaker 13: four or five seat majority. But I think at the 711 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 13: end of the day, when push comes to shove, the 712 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 13: bills that are before us, the big bills, the NDAA 713 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 13: that sets our defense policy, the appropriations bills that actually 714 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:29,880 Speaker 13: decide how we're going to spend taxpayers money, the farm 715 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 13: bill that's coming up this fall, FAA reauthorization, those bills. 716 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 13: I think at the end of the day, there's going 717 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 13: to be a lot of energy. It's going to be 718 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,759 Speaker 13: a big family dinner. But at the end of the day, 719 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 13: I think we're going to ultimately be successful at continuing 720 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 13: to move legislation forward. 721 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 3: All right, Well, what's definitely not giving the same energy 722 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 3: as a family dinner is the relationship between the SEC 723 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,919 Speaker 3: and these crypto CEOs. Talk to me a little bit 724 00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 3: about what you think that relationship would be looking like 725 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 3: as we continue to cover these issues with finance and 726 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 3: other crypto firms. 727 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 13: Here's my broad concern with the way Chairman Gensler has 728 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 13: been operating the SEC is, in large part it's policy 729 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 13: through enforcement. I would much rather see Congress, get the 730 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,359 Speaker 13: work to roll up our sleeves and put forward a 731 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 13: framework that sets the rules of the road so we 732 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,840 Speaker 13: can begin to innovate here in the United States. In particular, 733 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 13: I think we have an opportunity this Congress and a 734 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,439 Speaker 13: not too distant future to really move forward on stable coin, 735 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 13: provide an opportunity for people to at least in that 736 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 13: sandbox of crypto, to know that regulated entities are able 737 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,760 Speaker 13: to innovate and develop here in the United States. Failure 738 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,760 Speaker 13: to do that does not mean that crypto development won't occur. 739 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 13: It simply means it will occur in foreign countries well. 740 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 10: And we know that stable coin legislation is one thing 741 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:57,879 Speaker 10: in the works, as well as a market structure bill 742 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,880 Speaker 10: that was put forward by the House Finance Services Committee 743 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,920 Speaker 10: on which you said chairman, as well as the Subcommittee 744 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,360 Speaker 10: of Digital Assets Chair french Hill, and then on the 745 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,799 Speaker 10: Agriculture side as well, kind of a joint effort here 746 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:11,520 Speaker 10: to set the rules of the road, as you say, 747 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 10: dictate jurisdiction between the SEC and the CFTC. And there 748 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:16,800 Speaker 10: was a big hearing about that in the Agriculture of 749 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:18,760 Speaker 10: Committee on Tuesday, and it felt like it was completely 750 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:23,320 Speaker 10: overshadowed by the lawsuits of both Finance and Coinbase that 751 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 10: the SEC had filed. What do you make of the 752 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,919 Speaker 10: timing of Gainstler's actions here? 753 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:30,880 Speaker 13: Yeah, I spent a lot of time with Dussy Johnson 754 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,319 Speaker 13: and French Hills, both great minds in this space. You're 755 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 13: going to continue to see Chairman Gainser run at a 756 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 13: really aggressive pace. He's been looking forward to the opportunity 757 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,600 Speaker 13: to be SEC chair. He continues to operate at kind 758 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,600 Speaker 13: of breakneck speed. It's one of the concerns I have 759 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 13: for the SEC. The enforcement actions by the SEC will 760 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,440 Speaker 13: always garner more attention. It's one of the reasons that 761 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,919 Speaker 13: I think we have to really be thoughtful and move 762 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,080 Speaker 13: our policies forward, because we're are better off to set 763 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 13: forward public policy through a thoughtful legislative process than we 764 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 13: are to allow the Securities and Exchange Commission to move 765 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 13: policy forward through enforcement. 766 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,320 Speaker 3: The CEO of Coinbase spoke with our own Shnali Bassic 767 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 3: yesterday at Bloomberg invest and he described the reception of 768 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 3: the SEC as icee. Is that a characterization that feels 769 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:24,279 Speaker 3: accurate from where you sit. 770 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 13: I've spoken to a lot of people regarding their interaction 771 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 13: with the Securities and Exchange Commission, and I hear time 772 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,120 Speaker 13: and again that they're frustrated they're not getting more feedback 773 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 13: instead of providing kind of the rules of the road 774 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,719 Speaker 13: and saying, here is the regulatory safe space where you 775 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 13: can operate, innovate and develop. Many times I'm getting the 776 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 13: feedback that the sec is not being responsive, is instead 777 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,840 Speaker 13: coming forward with enforcement actions. Again, I don't think that 778 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,200 Speaker 13: enforcement actions are the best way to drive policy. We 779 00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,719 Speaker 13: should enforce some people to break the law, yes, So 780 00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 13: I do think we're far better off to give people 781 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,560 Speaker 13: the rules of the road so that they know where 782 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:05,800 Speaker 13: they are able to operate in a safe space innovate, 783 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,480 Speaker 13: and we can do that while protecting consumers. 784 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 10: Of course, crypto is a one area of focus recently 785 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,280 Speaker 10: for the Financial Services Committee as well as the Senate 786 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,359 Speaker 10: Banking Committee. But you also have had your hands full 787 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 10: with a series of bank failures we have seen earlier 788 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,280 Speaker 10: this year, and we understand, based on a Bloomberg supporting 789 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,840 Speaker 10: outside the Senate Banking Committee today that the executive compensation 790 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,360 Speaker 10: clawback Bill is going to be marked up in the 791 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,720 Speaker 10: Senate last next week. Rather, is that something a measure 792 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:34,359 Speaker 10: that would have your support. Do you think it would 793 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,680 Speaker 10: have the support of your other colleagues in the House. 794 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 13: I think a lot of us are looking at how 795 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 13: do we make sure that banks are not taking undue risk? 796 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,400 Speaker 13: And in particular, in the bank failures that we saw, 797 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,239 Speaker 13: it was unique circumstances, a small subset of bank in 798 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 13: a period of time of dramatically increasing interest rate that 799 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 13: may have caused the problem. I in many ways think 800 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,839 Speaker 13: that the regulators have the tools and the toolkit, they 801 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,840 Speaker 13: just simply failed to use them. There is an approach 802 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,400 Speaker 13: to make sure that there is enough of a stick 803 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,720 Speaker 13: also making sure that management at some of these banks 804 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,959 Speaker 13: is not taking undue risk. It's one of the bills 805 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,120 Speaker 13: we'll probably look at. I don't know what the future 806 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:14,960 Speaker 13: will hold as to whether or not we will even 807 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:16,879 Speaker 13: have an opportunity to mark that bill up and move 808 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:18,320 Speaker 13: it forward in the House. 809 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:21,880 Speaker 3: All right, Congressman, I think we're going to leave it 810 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,239 Speaker 3: there for you. Actually, I think we have time for 811 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,480 Speaker 3: one more quick question. I know that you co founded 812 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 3: the Congressional Future of Work Caucus. Can you talk to 813 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,479 Speaker 3: me about one thing that you've changed in your work 814 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,479 Speaker 3: on that caucus? After the explosion of AI just about 815 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:39,399 Speaker 3: thirty seconds here. 816 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,520 Speaker 13: Yeah, Lisa Blenn Rochester and I founded that caucus is 817 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,640 Speaker 13: an opportunity to say, how do we make sure we're 818 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 13: preparing individuals for the future of work. AI is going 819 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 13: to dramatically change how people work in the future, as 820 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 13: technology has always changed how we work. The most important 821 00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,480 Speaker 13: piece is that we have flexibility in our education system 822 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 13: that we are allowing students to be prepared for the 823 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 13: jobs for future, which AI will have a big impact 824 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:07,440 Speaker 13: on evolving. 825 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,239 Speaker 3: All right, Congressman, thank you so much for joining us. 826 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 3: We know you got to run, so we will let 827 00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 3: you go, but really appreciate you coming on. And Kaylee, 828 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,240 Speaker 3: I know that it's amazing to get to co host 829 00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,640 Speaker 3: with you because it is always such a great reminder 830 00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 3: of just how well you know all of the legislation 831 00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 3: going through DC. And I thought it was here making 832 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:26,799 Speaker 3: me blush, No, but it was really smart that you 833 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:31,680 Speaker 3: asked about what binance overshadowed that went down this week, 834 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 3: And that's such a great question. You know. 835 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,960 Speaker 10: That's been like the story of since I got to Washington, 836 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 10: just one thing after another seems to happen. First bank 837 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:41,839 Speaker 10: started failing, and then it was the debt ceiling we 838 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,239 Speaker 10: were dealing with, and now I was like, Okay, it's 839 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,680 Speaker 10: crypto legislation time. This is what I'm going to be following, 840 00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 10: both on stable coins as we were just hearing from 841 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 10: Congressman style about as well as this market structure bill 842 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,960 Speaker 10: that had finally been put forward and then Boom Monday 843 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:58,120 Speaker 10: finance suit, Boom Tuesday coinbt based suit. So you just 844 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,719 Speaker 10: never know what's gonna come down and how it ties 845 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,200 Speaker 10: into the legislative conversation and the regulatory conversation. But certainly 846 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,160 Speaker 10: been a really interesting thing to track in the crypto issue, 847 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:09,719 Speaker 10: as we know, something that Congress is paying very close 848 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:11,880 Speaker 10: attention to now, especially on the House side and the 849 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,640 Speaker 10: Financial Services Committee and the Agricultural Committee as well. 850 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,719 Speaker 3: When you talk to your sources in DC, what do 851 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,040 Speaker 3: they say to you about how they feel when these 852 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 3: big bombs keep getting dropped while they're working on the 853 00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,120 Speaker 3: other legislation that they want to be putting out into 854 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:28,920 Speaker 3: the media and into the world. 855 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,640 Speaker 10: Well, you know, there's always that saying that Washington never 856 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,000 Speaker 10: wastes a crisis, that it almost you know when these 857 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,600 Speaker 10: things happen, and that gives you something to talk about. Okay, 858 00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:38,960 Speaker 10: you can kind of film your campaign announcements with the 859 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,120 Speaker 10: hearings that you hold and all that good stuff. So 860 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,560 Speaker 10: I think it's kind of fueled the fire in some sense. 861 00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 10: But it'll be interesting to see, you know, how these 862 00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,000 Speaker 10: are addressed over the course of the rest of this 863 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,279 Speaker 10: legislative session. As we're talking with the Congressman about there, 864 00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,279 Speaker 10: there's been a real revolt among the Republican Party, at 865 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 10: least specific members of it, who have held up the 866 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,400 Speaker 10: proceedings of the body to the point that Speaker McCarthy 867 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,560 Speaker 10: sent everyone home early yesterday because nothing was going to 868 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:06,759 Speaker 10: get done. So as we talk about all the legislation 869 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,279 Speaker 10: that is being put forward, it's real question of whether 870 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,239 Speaker 10: that even you know, gets to the floor, if the 871 00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,560 Speaker 10: rule can pass, you know, how things are going to 872 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,560 Speaker 10: move through Congress, because then we have to consider that 873 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:19,759 Speaker 10: it's one thing for the House to pass something, it 874 00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:21,440 Speaker 10: also then has to get through the Senate, which is 875 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:22,880 Speaker 10: under different leadership. 876 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, when we were having our editorial call this morning, 877 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,640 Speaker 3: we were talking about some of the gridlock and the 878 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:31,680 Speaker 3: logjam in Congress and wondering whether or not that's going 879 00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,320 Speaker 3: to be able to wrap up. So a lot to 880 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,600 Speaker 3: cover here, Another story that we've got to cover is 881 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:41,800 Speaker 3: this Visa MasterCard bill and what's at stake and what's 882 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,840 Speaker 3: coming on that. We've got Nathan Dean joining us. He 883 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,040 Speaker 3: is one of the best minds that we've got from 884 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,719 Speaker 3: Bloomberg Intelligence and he's going to talk to us about 885 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,520 Speaker 3: this potential legislation. Now, Nathan, great to speak with you. 886 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,680 Speaker 3: Thanks for getting in studio with us. Just for our 887 00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,640 Speaker 3: listeners who aren't familiar, give me a brief rundown of 888 00:44:58,640 --> 00:44:59,759 Speaker 3: what we need to know about this. 889 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:00,279 Speaker 1: Yeah. 890 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 15: So this is a bill that that came out from 891 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,839 Speaker 15: Senator Dick Durbin and Illinois. This is something he tried 892 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,399 Speaker 15: to do last year. It failed trying again this year. 893 00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,680 Speaker 15: This bill is squarely aimed at Visa and MasterCard. This 894 00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,320 Speaker 15: bill would require banks above one hundred billion in assets 895 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:17,120 Speaker 15: to offer two networks to their merchants and require that 896 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,880 Speaker 15: they would offer two networks to their merchants so that 897 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:22,840 Speaker 15: a merchant has a choice. They can either use Visa 898 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:27,080 Speaker 15: or American Express or MasterCard or Discover for example. But 899 00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:30,440 Speaker 15: the caveat is you can't offer both Visa and MasterCard 900 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,000 Speaker 15: because they have eighty percent of the market. And Senator 901 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,920 Speaker 15: Durbin wants more competition, with the idea that more competition 902 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:37,040 Speaker 15: equals lower fees. 903 00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:42,239 Speaker 10: Okay, that's the idea, but in reality, I mean, would 904 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,759 Speaker 10: that actually work? Is there is there any real chance 905 00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:46,160 Speaker 10: of this actually coming to fruition. 906 00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:48,080 Speaker 15: So there's two things here. One, we don't think this 907 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,600 Speaker 15: bill is going to pass this year. I mean, the 908 00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,719 Speaker 15: headline risk is key remains elevated because Senator Durbin was 909 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,600 Speaker 15: able to get additional co sponsors. This is a bipartisan bill. 910 00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,000 Speaker 15: He's got Senator Marshall, Senator Vance Welch on this. There's 911 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,319 Speaker 15: bipartisan lawmakers in the House. But the big question here, 912 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:05,680 Speaker 15: and this is the reason why we don't think it 913 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:08,759 Speaker 15: will pass this because even though the retailers and the 914 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,440 Speaker 15: grocers want this, I mean, we're talking about ninety three 915 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,759 Speaker 15: billion dollars in fees that the Visa MasterCard collected in 916 00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,680 Speaker 15: twenty twenty one. The reason why we don't think it 917 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,239 Speaker 15: will pass this because Visa and MasterCard have responded and 918 00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:23,440 Speaker 15: it said, look, these fees actually also account for some 919 00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,160 Speaker 15: of our rewards programs, and if this happens, we're going 920 00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,880 Speaker 15: to have to actually cut back on that. If you know, 921 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,440 Speaker 15: we're going to have to restructure fees. This is something 922 00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,080 Speaker 15: that is going to ultimately go to the consumer. And 923 00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,600 Speaker 15: what they often point to is that Senator Durman tried 924 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,120 Speaker 15: this twelve years ago and succeeded in this on the 925 00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:42,160 Speaker 15: debit card space. The idea here is that debit card 926 00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,360 Speaker 15: fees would be limited and therefore be passed down to 927 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,200 Speaker 15: the consumer, and we really didn't see any evidence of that. 928 00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,279 Speaker 15: We saw it mostly staying with the retailers. 929 00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,279 Speaker 3: All right, So you put the likelihood of this at 930 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:57,239 Speaker 3: a whopping thirty percent, what would change that calculation for you? 931 00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:58,640 Speaker 3: What would make that number go up? 932 00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,040 Speaker 15: So you're gonna see how risk go through the rest 933 00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,200 Speaker 15: of the year as this goes through the Senate. I mean, 934 00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:05,480 Speaker 15: there's going to be hearing on this, they'll probably be 935 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,760 Speaker 15: a vote on this, and you're gonna see scary headlines. 936 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,960 Speaker 15: If you're investor in Visa and MasterCard. Actually you may 937 00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:16,520 Speaker 15: slightly benefit as American Express and Discover Card. 938 00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:18,080 Speaker 3: What we need to see. 939 00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,200 Speaker 15: Though, is more lawmakers come out and support this thing, 940 00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:24,560 Speaker 15: because last year when Senator Durman did this, it remained 941 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,200 Speaker 15: confined to him and Senator Marshall. In a handful of 942 00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,040 Speaker 15: House lawmakers. The other thing we're going to potentially see 943 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,480 Speaker 15: is Senator Durman may try and attach this the must 944 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,160 Speaker 15: pass pieces of legislation. There's not many of those out 945 00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:37,560 Speaker 15: there this year now that the debt ceiling has gone 946 00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:39,479 Speaker 15: and the government funding has sort of been squared away. 947 00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,359 Speaker 15: But this is a tactic he threatened to use last year. 948 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,680 Speaker 15: So the ultimate story is if you're if you're exposed 949 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:47,960 Speaker 15: to Visa and MasterCard, you certainly have to pay attention 950 00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:51,719 Speaker 15: to This has bipartisan warmth, and bipartisan warmth potentially could 951 00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:56,240 Speaker 15: bruinto bipartisan support in twenty twenty four, but ultimately, right now, 952 00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,160 Speaker 15: we just don't think it's right because is for every 953 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,920 Speaker 15: retail that it's whispering in their ears saying please do this, 954 00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,879 Speaker 15: there's a bank or a credit union or another type 955 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:06,560 Speaker 15: of credit card issue where it' saying don't do this. 956 00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:11,080 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast Catch us 957 00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,160 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern. 958 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,040 Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg 959 00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:16,960 Speaker 2: Business App. 960 00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,640 Speaker 1: Or listening on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 961 00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:24,759 Speaker 3: These wildfires just the situation here in the US, but 962 00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,279 Speaker 3: also in Canada and everything being done to address it. 963 00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,040 Speaker 3: We've got some great experts on the line to talk 964 00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:34,640 Speaker 3: with us about the wildfire situation. I think we have 965 00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:38,600 Speaker 3: Skyler Woodhouse here with us. Actually, we are going to 966 00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:40,880 Speaker 3: go to Matt Wiener because he is the CEO and 967 00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:44,239 Speaker 3: co founder of Megafire Action. That's an organization dedicated to 968 00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:48,080 Speaker 3: solving the megafire crisis. He's also a former environmental and 969 00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:52,480 Speaker 3: climate policy advisor in Congress. Matt, thank you for waiting 970 00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,239 Speaker 3: for us while we got through that conference. Talk to 971 00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:57,040 Speaker 3: me about what we're seeing, what Kaylee and I are 972 00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:59,920 Speaker 3: seeing firsthand here in New York City. To what extent 973 00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,520 Speaker 3: is this situation just the new normal? 974 00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:07,440 Speaker 16: Yeah, no, thanks for having me. You know, it's surreal 975 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:09,440 Speaker 16: to watch all this footage because we've been used to 976 00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:11,960 Speaker 16: it in the West Coast for the last several years, 977 00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:14,080 Speaker 16: but I don't think any of us are used to 978 00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,759 Speaker 16: seeing something like this in New York City, and unfortunately, 979 00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:20,520 Speaker 16: it really is set to get worse in the coming 980 00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:22,840 Speaker 16: years absent aggressive policy intervention. 981 00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:28,640 Speaker 10: What kind of aggressive policy intervention are we talking about here? 982 00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:29,680 Speaker 7: Yeah? 983 00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:33,320 Speaker 16: So, you know, unlike other climate driven disasters, think hurricanes, 984 00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:38,960 Speaker 16: extreme storms, flooding, wildfires actually or something we have agency 985 00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:42,759 Speaker 16: to prevent, not just to respond to or to adapt to. 986 00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:45,480 Speaker 7: And that's really critical here, and a big part of. 987 00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:49,920 Speaker 16: That is because we are because of years of taking 988 00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,960 Speaker 16: good fire out of western ecosystems across the west right. 989 00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,120 Speaker 16: So we've taken that good fire out and now we 990 00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,719 Speaker 16: need to do a lot of work to manage our 991 00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,080 Speaker 16: forest to bring good fire back at scale. 992 00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:01,880 Speaker 7: And if we do that, we can really make this 993 00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,040 Speaker 7: a more manageable problem. But it's going to take a. 994 00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:04,799 Speaker 6: Lot of work to do it. 995 00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:08,239 Speaker 3: Matt, explain good fire to me, because I'm not sure 996 00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:13,560 Speaker 3: if people outside of your expertise level understand that absolutely. 997 00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:18,160 Speaker 16: So, you know, Western landscapes are designed to have to 998 00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,000 Speaker 16: have fire come through, and in most cases it's low 999 00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:24,640 Speaker 16: intensity fire that burns through. It clears out dead brush, 1000 00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:29,640 Speaker 16: it takes unhealthy sick trees, kills invasive species. 1001 00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:30,239 Speaker 7: And other things like that. 1002 00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,400 Speaker 16: But because of what we've done over the last hundred years, 1003 00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:36,400 Speaker 16: which is we've gotten very good at suppressing fire and 1004 00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:40,919 Speaker 16: putting it out right away, we've taken good fire, low intensity. 1005 00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:43,040 Speaker 7: Fire, necessary fire out of. 1006 00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:48,640 Speaker 16: The ecosystem and we've replaced it with what we dee megafire. Intense, 1007 00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:53,680 Speaker 16: high intensity catastrophic fires that destroy ecosystems, create the air 1008 00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,560 Speaker 16: quality issues that we're seeing right now across the Eastern Seaboard, 1009 00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:00,600 Speaker 16: and also are are climate catastrophe. 1010 00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,040 Speaker 10: Well, as we talk about what we're seeing across the 1011 00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:06,360 Speaker 10: Eastern Seaboard, I mean, I came up from Washington to 1012 00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,239 Speaker 10: New York last night. I woke up this morning and 1013 00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:10,840 Speaker 10: literally had like a scratchy throat, like I physically have 1014 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:12,680 Speaker 10: felt the effects of this. And I wasn't even here 1015 00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:16,440 Speaker 10: yesterday when it was really bad. But this was something 1016 00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:20,280 Speaker 10: that one of our reporters talked to the Surgeon General 1017 00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,040 Speaker 10: about actually on Capitol Hill earlier today, she caught up 1018 00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:27,279 Speaker 10: with Vivit Murphy about the kind of health ramifications of this. 1019 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:28,000 Speaker 3: This is what he said. 1020 00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,000 Speaker 17: It's not good, hard for a lot of people to 1021 00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,839 Speaker 17: breathe right now. And you know, I think it's just 1022 00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,839 Speaker 17: one more reminder as we think about you know, air 1023 00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,319 Speaker 17: quality and forest fires, which have contributed you know to 1024 00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,040 Speaker 17: poor air quality now a number of times in the 1025 00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,120 Speaker 17: last few years. This is one of many reasons important 1026 00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:47,960 Speaker 17: for us to ask, like why are these extreme weather 1027 00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,560 Speaker 17: events happening more often? And climate change is. 1028 00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:51,480 Speaker 2: A big part of that. 1029 00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:54,080 Speaker 17: So it's just a reminder to us that climate change 1030 00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:54,920 Speaker 17: has health impacts. 1031 00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:57,960 Speaker 10: So it comes back to the idea of, you know, 1032 00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:00,600 Speaker 10: addressing this in the climate aspect of it, but also 1033 00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:03,600 Speaker 10: just on the health related issues, I mean near term 1034 00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:05,640 Speaker 10: versus long term. What is the real risk it is 1035 00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:08,479 Speaker 10: posing to the population that is contending with this right now? 1036 00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:11,920 Speaker 7: Yeah, this is absolutely a huge concern. 1037 00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:16,120 Speaker 16: Forty four percent of the nation's PM two point five 1038 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,440 Speaker 16: emissions are caused by wildfire smoke, and during fire season 1039 00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,880 Speaker 16: that can be as high as ninety percent certain area. 1040 00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:27,000 Speaker 16: The real concern here is exposure over time, and so 1041 00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:29,800 Speaker 16: if you're someone who's pregnant, if you have respiratory issues, 1042 00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:30,759 Speaker 16: you really want to make. 1043 00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,319 Speaker 7: Sure that you're immediately covering your. 1044 00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:36,200 Speaker 16: Mask, getting indoors, making sure that you have proper ventilation. 1045 00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,040 Speaker 16: But the real risk here is how do we make 1046 00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,400 Speaker 16: sure that this doesn't become the new norm because we 1047 00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:43,520 Speaker 16: can't stay indoors forever. 1048 00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,279 Speaker 3: So I want to tap your expertise here, Matt. You were, 1049 00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:50,799 Speaker 3: as we mentioned, a former climate policy advisor in Congress. 1050 00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:54,880 Speaker 3: If you were still in that role talking to members 1051 00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:58,600 Speaker 3: of Congress today about these fires, would what would your 1052 00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:01,120 Speaker 3: message be to them. 1053 00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:03,759 Speaker 16: Yeah, so we really have a unique opportunity here to 1054 00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,440 Speaker 16: do a lot of good. The Farm Bill is up 1055 00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,319 Speaker 16: for reauthorization this year, and that is a once and 1056 00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:13,160 Speaker 16: every five year opportunity to reauthorize programs to the Forest Service, 1057 00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:16,960 Speaker 16: which manages a lot of our federal forested land. That's 1058 00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,440 Speaker 16: a real opportunity to make some policy changes and some 1059 00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,120 Speaker 16: the investments that can help us get a handle on 1060 00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:25,319 Speaker 16: this problem and help us make some real progress. There's 1061 00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:27,799 Speaker 16: also a wild Land Fire Commission that is going to 1062 00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:31,120 Speaker 16: be releasing a report later this year to Congress. It 1063 00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,120 Speaker 16: was created by the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, and that is 1064 00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:36,880 Speaker 16: another real opportunity to take a step back and rethink 1065 00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:39,120 Speaker 16: how we deal with fire. I mean, right now, we've 1066 00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:43,680 Speaker 16: got a myriad of different federal agency state agencies focused 1067 00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:47,399 Speaker 16: on this issue, and it doesn't always make sense. 1068 00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:49,399 Speaker 7: The system is not always rational, and so we have. 1069 00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,839 Speaker 16: An opportunity to take a step back and look at 1070 00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:56,000 Speaker 16: that again. And the good news is federal policy makers 1071 00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:58,480 Speaker 16: are starting to understand this. I think the challenge we 1072 00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,560 Speaker 16: have is that there's a lack of understanding. It's a 1073 00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:03,440 Speaker 16: scale it's going to take to. 1074 00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,920 Speaker 7: Get this right, and the urgency with which we need 1075 00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:06,360 Speaker 7: to act. 1076 00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:08,840 Speaker 16: We really are running out of time, and if we 1077 00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,880 Speaker 16: don't start moving quickly, the western landscapes are just not 1078 00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:15,200 Speaker 16: going to exist as we know them. 1079 00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:15,719 Speaker 3: All right. 1080 00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,239 Speaker 10: Well, it's an important warning for all of us as 1081 00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:21,799 Speaker 10: we watch what is unfolding here in Canada and all 1082 00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,560 Speaker 10: over the East Coast. Matt Winer, CEO and co founder 1083 00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:28,880 Speaker 10: of Megafire Action and organization dedicated to solving the megafire crisis, 1084 00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,600 Speaker 10: as well as a former environmental and climate policy advisor 1085 00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:34,920 Speaker 10: in Congress, thank you so much for your time and expertise. 1086 00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:37,960 Speaker 10: I mean, Maddie, I wasn't here in New York yesterday, 1087 00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,080 Speaker 10: but I saw all the photos. It seems like it's 1088 00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:42,080 Speaker 10: better today, but better doesn't mean. 1089 00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,520 Speaker 3: That it's good. The air quality is still quite poor 1090 00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:47,480 Speaker 3: as we speak. It's so much better than it was yesterday, 1091 00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:50,759 Speaker 3: but that's still not normal. We are seeing that the 1092 00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:54,520 Speaker 3: air quality indicator is getting a little bit increasingly better 1093 00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:57,720 Speaker 3: and better as the hours go on. But you mentioned it, Kaylee. 1094 00:54:57,719 --> 00:54:59,680 Speaker 3: It is just so oppressive and I can't tell if 1095 00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,600 Speaker 3: it's in my head or if I have an impact 1096 00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:03,719 Speaker 3: in my chest from all. 1097 00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:05,400 Speaker 10: The time I feel like I feel it. And also, 1098 00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:07,560 Speaker 10: can we just say I'm going to be chasing the 1099 00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:10,800 Speaker 10: smoke back down to Washington tomorrow because it's moving south. 1100 00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,160 Speaker 3: That's lucky me. That's tough. Well, Kayleie, thank you so 1101 00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:17,560 Speaker 3: much for joining us and for being here with us 1102 00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:20,040 Speaker 3: in New York City. My guest listening. This is sound 1103 00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:21,200 Speaker 3: On and this is Bloomberg. 1104 00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:28,040 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the sound On podcast. 1105 00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:31,200 Speaker 12: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, 1106 00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:33,719 Speaker 12: and anywhere else you get your podcasts, and you can 1107 00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,759 Speaker 12: find us live every weekday from Washington, DC at one 1108 00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:40,840 Speaker 12: pm Eastern Time at Bloomberg dot com