1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg sound On. 2 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:09,880 Speaker 1: No president should be able to sustain boots on the 3 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: ground without congressional approval and without a clear explanation of 4 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: what the mission is and what the endgame is. This 5 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: isn't really about the economic policy. This is about the coronavirus. 6 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 1: Floomberg sound On, Politics, Policy and prospective from DC's top name. 7 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: So we must use every school possible to defeat the 8 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: the fault on women's reproductive rights. This is a steady 9 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: growth that we're seeing here in our economy, you know, 10 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: over the last three months. Bloomberg Sound On with Joe 11 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. They say they have a deal 12 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: on a framework to pay for reconciliation. The big three 13 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: at the podium today on Capitol Hill, Speaker Pelosi, Senate 14 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: Majority Leader Schumer, Treasury Secretary Yelling, and Bloomberg sound On 15 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:58,319 Speaker 1: was in the room for it all. Coming up, will 16 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: tell you what we know about that deal. Democrats plan 17 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: to handle government funding and the debt ceiling, and we'll 18 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: discuss it with Congressman Jim Agoverned, Democrat from Massachusetts, who's 19 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: smack dab the center of this debate. As chair of 20 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: the House Rules Committee. Will also dig into all of 21 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: this drama with McK mulvaney, former acting White House Chief 22 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: of Staff, former budget director as well. We'll talk about 23 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: a possible default later with Mark Zany from Moody's, and 24 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: we'll get analysis from the panel Bloomberg Politics contributors Genie 25 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: Chanzano and Rick Davis. It's been another very busy day 26 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,119 Speaker 1: on Capitol Hill. Those of us who attended Speaker Pelosi's 27 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: weekly briefing this morning, we're treated to a couple of 28 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: unexpected guests. As I mentioned, tread fury, Secretary Janet yelling 29 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 1: on the stage along with Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer. 30 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: They all walked in together to make an announcement. Okay, 31 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: just I have a brief, brief sentence, and that is 32 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: that the the White House, the House, and the Senate 33 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: have reached agreement on a framework that will pay for 34 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: any final negotiated agreement. So the revenue side of this 35 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: we have an agreement on. So there's an agreement on 36 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: pay for is okay, but no final price tag or 37 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: any new details on what is inside. Of course, reporters 38 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: tried to ask more of the Speaker, but that's essentially 39 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:20,959 Speaker 1: all we got, though Pelosi also pledged to keep the 40 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,399 Speaker 1: government running, making clear the Democrats will handle the debt 41 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: ceiling alone if Republicans refused to help, and House Minority 42 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: Leader Kevin McCarthy today confirming again they won't. The Democrats 43 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: have a mechanism already in place to use reconciliation to 44 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: pass it with a simple majority of their members in 45 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 1: the Senate. If they want to raise and spend another 46 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: five trillion dollars, that's what they need to do. I 47 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: went upstairs later to talk with the chair of the 48 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: House Rules Committee, Congressman Jim McGovern of Massachusetts. Has been 49 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,639 Speaker 1: awfully busy lately and started on as we sat down 50 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: in his Rules Committee chamber. What he's telling his progressive 51 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: colleagues who are now threatening to vote against infrastruct sure 52 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: if reconciliation does not come first. So look, what we 53 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: need is an ironclad guarantee that we're going to get 54 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: the human infrastructure bill. Uh and and I think if 55 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: we can get that, then maybe some of the hesitancy 56 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:25,839 Speaker 1: in voting for the you know, the the traditional infrastructure 57 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: bill will will reside. But you know, I myself want 58 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: to make sure we have an ironclad committing that we're 59 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: gonna move forward on the Reconciliation bill. I want to 60 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: make sure that we're not going to do one bill, which, 61 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: by the way, is good. In my opinion, it's not great, 62 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: but it's good. Uh. There's a lot of nice support. 63 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: There's some stuff I don't support, and there's a lot 64 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: that's missing. But you know, I'm willing to vote for it. 65 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: Um as long as we get the other bill too. 66 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: We need them both. And and that was the original promise. Uh. 67 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: And we are to keep to it. And so the 68 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: issue now is let's figure out what it is the 69 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: reconciliation bill looks like, which is a human infrastructure bill. 70 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,119 Speaker 1: Let's figure out what we can all agree on. Let's 71 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: find the areas with his disagreement, see whether we can 72 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: have something out. But let's get to the finish line. Uh. 73 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: And you know, a lot, a lot of at stake here. 74 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: I think it's it's not only the future of our 75 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: economy and the well being of the American people, but 76 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 1: you know, the Democrats control of the White House, the Senate, 77 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 1: and the House. I mean, people want us to deliver it. Now. 78 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,359 Speaker 1: We have razor thin margins in both and we have 79 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: a very diverse party. But nonetheless, American people are tired 80 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: of bickering. They want us to deliver, and so this 81 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: is the moment for us all to come together and 82 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: let's deliver for them. A lot of this is on 83 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: your shoulders as chair of the Rules Committee to make 84 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: all of this happen, to bring bills to the floor. 85 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 1: Is it possible to have a vote on both on Monday? Oh? 86 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, even if we came to a 87 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: deal on the human infrastructure build, the reconciliation built. I mean, 88 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: just there's logistically there is. It takes time, right, So 89 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: we we we you know, we have certain procedures we 90 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: follow here. You know, we got to make sure the 91 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: bill is written perfectly. Um, we want people to have 92 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 1: a chance to read the bill. I mean, so you 93 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 1: just can't do it like that. So maybe the better 94 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 1: option is to delay the vote on Monday, and you know, 95 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: give us a little bit more time. And if we 96 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: get to the point where we all getting to an 97 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: agreement we trust each other, then you know, we can 98 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: move on that and then you know, and move on 99 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: the the other one later. You know, the reason why 100 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: people are insisting on having the Human Infrastructure Bill goal forces, 101 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 1: because that is where we're hearing some resistance from some 102 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,919 Speaker 1: of the some of the Democrats in the Senate. And 103 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: so the deal here is, look, let's get to a 104 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: point where we trust each other and then we can 105 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: move forward and you know, and which order won't matter 106 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: as much. Do you want to need to hear what 107 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: the Senate is willing to accept or do you want 108 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: to pass a bill in the House Senate over? Yeah, 109 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: we we have to. We have to pass a bill 110 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: that the Senate could pass. Otherwise this is a meaningless exercise, right, 111 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: So I mean so, and as we speak, uh, committees 112 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: of jurisdiction, um, you know in the House are actually 113 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: talking to their counterparts in the Senate to try to 114 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: make sure that whatever the language we put in this 115 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: bill is acceptable to them. So we're already beginning that process. 116 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: It's been suggested. Representative Jan Schakowski even alluded to this 117 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 1: when I was speaking with her last evening on the program, 118 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: that maybe it passed the bipart as an infrastructure bill 119 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: and put it on the shelf until reconciliation is figured out, 120 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: not send it to the White House. Question. I don't 121 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: know whether you can do that. I mean, the deal 122 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: is is that? Um? I mean, I think there's some 123 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: constitutional questions about you know, the Senate already passed it. 124 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 1: You know, we passed that, then it goes right to 125 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: the White House. So I you know, you might be 126 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 1: able to delay it for a little bit. But I 127 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 1: don't think that that's an option understood. So I think 128 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: a better option would be, uh to maybe delay the 129 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: vote on the physical infrastructure bill until we're further along 130 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: on the human infrastructure bill. Well, we're talking reconciliation. The 131 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: debt ceiling is is in the air today, everyone's talking 132 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: about it. It appears that Democrats will have to handle 133 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: this alone. Is there enough time to do that through reconciliation? 134 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: There seems to be some disagreement as to whether you'd 135 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: make the deadline right. Uh. Well, I mean, and there's 136 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: also some debate as to whether reconciliation is the you know, 137 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: the vehicle to do it in Um. You know, I 138 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: talked to Senator Sanders yesterday, which is the Center Budget Committee, 139 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: and he's had some reservations about that. But I don't 140 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: know what We're trying to figure that out. Look, the 141 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: idea that Republicans are turning the raising the debt setting 142 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: into a political football. Is like political malpractice. I mean, 143 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: there's lots of stuff to be political about. I mean 144 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: everything in this town is political. You don't don't like 145 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: the Reconciliation bill, you know, do what you gotta do 146 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: on that. You know, you don't like you know, this 147 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: bill of that bill. But when we talk about raising 148 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: the death ceiling, you're not talking about future spending. We're 149 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: talking about paying the bills that we've already accumulated. And 150 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: by the way, when Donald Trump was president, I couldn't 151 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: stand his policies. I thought, tooth and nail against his 152 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: an obnoxious tax cut bill that benefited the rich and 153 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: big corporations and by the way, it added to our 154 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,079 Speaker 1: debt considerably. Uh. And yet when it came time to 155 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: vote for the death ceiling, I voted for it. I mean, 156 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: I tried to stop his bill that accumulated you know, 157 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: trillions to the debt. I didn't succeed. Well, you know what, 158 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: But just because I didn't succeed doesn't mean I have 159 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: the right to say I'm not going to pay the bill. 160 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 1: We all have to pay the bills we've accumulated and 161 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: to play Russian roulette with this that really does jeopardize 162 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: our economy. Um, it's sends a message to the world 163 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: that we're like, you know, out of our minds. Um, 164 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: it's so stupid. Uh. And when I hear Misch McConnell say, oh, 165 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: you know, it's up to the president's party to carry 166 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 1: the day, the boy he didn't say that when Donald 167 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 1: Trump was president. Um. And you know, and again this 168 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,119 Speaker 1: is the one thing that really shouldn't be about politics. 169 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:23,719 Speaker 1: You want to cut spending, then you pass bills to 170 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: cut spending. You want to you know, you want to uh, 171 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: you know, cut taxes, you gotta cut pass bills and 172 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: cut day. So you want to raise taxes, you pass 173 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: bills to raisings. You know, we we we make those decisions. 174 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: But after those decisions have been made, to go back 175 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: and say no, I'm not gonna pay the bill, that's 176 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: the political malpractice. And by the way, of the total 177 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: debt that will be covered by this happened before Joe 178 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,079 Speaker 1: Biden was president, So it's like, give me a break. 179 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: This seems to be a lot of confusion about that, 180 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: as even Kevin McCarthy said that that Trump spending has 181 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: been paid for, and that this would allow Democrats to 182 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: spend more going forward, or are we just playing with 183 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: the American public. Kevin McCarthy, um is not only misinformed, 184 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: but you know, in my opinion, is a poor excuse 185 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,839 Speaker 1: for Republican leader. I mean, I'm just so sick of 186 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 1: the lies, um, And not only on things like this, 187 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: but I mean his complicity with all things Trump related. Um, 188 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: you know, his unwillingness even allow a by truly bipartisan 189 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: commission to go forward to get to the truth about January. 190 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,319 Speaker 1: Say so, Kevin McCarthy, in my opinion, is just noise 191 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: and and and you know that makes no difference. Uh. 192 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 1: You know, he's desperately trying to endear himself too, you know, 193 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: the kind of lunatic fringe within his conference, uh, so 194 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: that he can stay as leader, and and obviously he 195 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: wants to be Speaker of the House. But you know, 196 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: I mean that's it's again, it's political malpractice. And again 197 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy didn't didn't, you know, didn't didn't say that 198 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: only Republicans should raise the dead ceiling when Donald Trump 199 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: was president. So, I mean the hypocrisy is, well, it 200 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: is what it is, and I I've run out of 201 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: adjectives to describe, you know what I think about him. 202 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: Congressman Jim mcgoverned, Democrat from Massachusetts, chair of the House 203 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: Rules Committee. As you heard the buzzer behind us, they 204 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: were voting today and a good chance to sit down 205 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: and pick the brain of the man who has to 206 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: actually write the rules to get all of this business 207 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: to the House floor. We turned to the panel quickly. 208 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: Here we've got Rick and Genie with us for the hour, 209 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:48,199 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributors as promised, Genie Chanzano and Rick Davis. Genie, 210 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: you just heard from the Rules chair here in a 211 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: little bit of news that he made about what might 212 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: happen on a couple of different fronts. I have to 213 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: admit I'm drawn to his comments about Monday. There was 214 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,439 Speaker 1: supposed to be a vote on infrastructure one day, as 215 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: Pelosi promised moderates. Jim McGovern now suggesting that vote be 216 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: delayed until we have enough trust, he says, between moderates 217 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: and progressives when it comes to reconciliation, do you think 218 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: that's how this ends? That is a distinct possibility. Progressives, 219 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: we understand, asked the President to push for a delay. Um. 220 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: The President apparently said he'd think about it. McGovern just 221 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: echoed that to you, So you know, I do think 222 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: that is a possibility. Um. I'm not sure though, how 223 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: progressives are going to take to that. Let's not forget 224 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: Josh Gottheimer said a long time ago. The longer you 225 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,439 Speaker 1: delay this, the more time goes by, the more likely 226 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,559 Speaker 1: this thing is that it dies. That's for sure. Rick. 227 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: We talked yesterday about comments from Representative Jan Schikowski was 228 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: on this program and suggested, you know what, maybe we 229 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: vote on that infrastructure bill on Monday, then we leave 230 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: it on the shelf, wait to send it to the 231 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: White House. You made note of this and work on reconciliation. McGovern. 232 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: There is suggesting that that may not even be constitutionally allowed. Yeah. 233 00:12:58,240 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: I think that these things are all linked to sir 234 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: days that it takes for the House of Representatives to 235 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 1: print the bill and send it to the White House. 236 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: They have a certain amount of leeway, but certainly not 237 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: like at their discretion. UH. And I think part of 238 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 1: what the chairman of the Rules Committee, who you just interviewed, 239 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: UH portrays is something that I find absolutely fascinating about 240 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: this whole process, which is a minority group of few, right, 241 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: whether it's the moderates in the Senate, within the Democratic Party, 242 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 1: the moderates in the House, within the Democratic Party, the 243 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: Progressive in the House, and the Democratic Party. The minority 244 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: is driving all the process. And the majority, which we 245 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: all brought up in the majority rules, can't seem to 246 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: get a breakthrough within their own party. And so I 247 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: think all this gets done, but I think it gets 248 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: done in probably the mechanical fashion has been described reconciliation 249 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: and uh and the Democrats have to take ownership of it, 250 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: and and but they still have to unravel this, this 251 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 1: incredibly huge reconciliation bill that is nowhere in the last week. 252 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: We still have a lot of blanks to fill in. 253 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: Even though as again the leadership today announcing a deal 254 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: on a framework they say for pay force, which as 255 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: we all chase Nancy Pelosi down the hallway to get details, 256 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: she said, the news conference is over. This is a 257 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: great step forward. I want to bring in Mick mulveney now, 258 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: of course, the founder of Exigues Capital, the former acting 259 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: White House Chief of Staff, former OMB director, former congressman, 260 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: and I know I could keep going it's like the 261 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: longest business card in Washington. Mick mulvaney, Welcome back to 262 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. You must you must be scratching your head 263 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: watching this whole debate go back and forth, because you've 264 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: been on all sides of this. You've been on both 265 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: sides of the negotiating table, You've been through debt limits, 266 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: you've been through reconciliations before. I just wonder what you 267 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: make of the framework announced today, and as you look 268 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: at the schedule, you look at the calendar, if you 269 00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: think any of this is possible to get done into 270 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: oh man, when a great bunch of questions. I was 271 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: laughing as you were telling the story about Nancy running 272 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: down the hallway saying the press conference is over. Because 273 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: your point is is well made, which is that they 274 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: said there was an agreement. They said it's a framework, 275 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: and when people asked, okay, what is it, they said, 276 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: we're not going to tell you um, which is a 277 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: fascinating way to negotiate. Um. But again, that only exists 278 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. But that's that's par for the 279 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: course in Washington, d C. Um to your panels point, 280 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: I think this gets done. I just don't think at 281 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: the end of the day that Democrats are willing to 282 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: walk away from the table with nothing. I've heard conjecture 283 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: that the longer the bill goes on, the harder it 284 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: is to pass. And that's true by the way, that 285 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: bills get uglier the older they get, because when you 286 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 1: have a you know, the State, it's a ten thousand 287 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: pieces of the page document. People are actually going to 288 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: get a chance to go through it at some point 289 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: and they're gonna find a bunch of stuff they don't like. Um. 290 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: And so it does get uglier as it goes on, 291 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: and that tends to encourage people to think this thing 292 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: might fall upon art. But at the end of the day, 293 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: I know these folks enough to know they're not going 294 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: to walk away from the opportunity to pass something on 295 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: their own. They are very concerned about losing the House, um, 296 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: the Senate less so. But if as soon as they 297 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: lose one of these bodies, they don't have the ability 298 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: to do this. So I think, um, sooner or later 299 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: Nancy will have her way. Something will pass on both 300 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: infrastructure and the social spending. Though, can you give us 301 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: some straight talk about the debt ceiling? I've been asking 302 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: every lawmaker about this, and it seems like it depends 303 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: on the party you're in at the moment as to 304 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: how you answer the debt ceiling, as Nancy Pelosi says, 305 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: is a credit card and it needs to be paid off. 306 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: It has to do with covering past spending money that's 307 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: already been allocated, as opposed to what we're hearing at 308 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: the moment from the Republican leadership Kevin McCarthy today suggesting 309 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: that it will allow Democrats to spend more going forward. 310 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: Why are we doing this every couple of years, having 311 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: the same debate both and both of those are mostly true. Again, 312 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: Washington uses a different language, so when you ask her 313 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: a straight question, those are actually straight answers in Washington. 314 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: It's not straight answer in ordinary English. A couple of 315 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: straight answers in ordinary English. Both parties use the debt 316 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: ceiling as leverage. Um, that's the nature of the beast. 317 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: It's one of the things that has to get passed 318 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. Just like a yearly spending bill. 319 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,120 Speaker 1: Why do we do a spending bill every single year? 320 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 1: Why isn't all the spending on automatic control so that 321 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: you don't have to vote on every single year that 322 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: there's a bunch of things like that in Washington, so 323 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: what we call must pass legislation, and it gives typically 324 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 1: the minority some leverage, which is why everybody still kind 325 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: of likes it. You will forget in quote most my 326 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: Democrat friends forget that in two thousand and it was 327 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: a seventeen or eighteen the last time we raised the 328 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: debt ceiling. The Democrats used it as leveraged to increase spending. 329 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: They would not support a clean debt ceiling increase when 330 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: Donald Trump was president unless they got more spending. That's 331 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 1: typically what the already in the minority does, So both 332 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: parties are guilty of it um but that's not unusual. 333 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: That's how Washington works. Some of these things have to pass, 334 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: and that gives people leverage, which you're not hearing though. Interestingly, 335 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 1: enough is enough discussion. I think about the fact that 336 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: the debt ceiling is the quintessential thing that can be reconciled. 337 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: In fact, the Budget Act of nineteen four which creates reconciliation, 338 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: made it specific that the debt ceiling can be reconciled, 339 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: which means you only need fifty votes in the Senate. 340 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: The Democrats have the ability to do this by themselves, 341 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:36,239 Speaker 1: and I'm not sure entirely why yet they aren't doing it. 342 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 1: It may come to that they may have no choice. 343 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: Do you think there's time to get that done through 344 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: reconciliation that also has been up for debate. You need 345 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: two weeks, three weeks are gonna truly be done. They 346 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:47,919 Speaker 1: can do whatever they want to. They can stop the 347 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: clock if they want to. The Senate can vote to 348 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: stop stop the clock. I'm not making that up. You 349 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: can do it with if you're in the majority in 350 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 1: the House, if you're in the majority in the Senate, 351 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: you can pretty much do whatever you want to. If 352 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: the minority it goes along with it. Especially in the Senate, 353 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: are more. There's a lot more minority protections in the 354 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,880 Speaker 1: Senate than there are in the House. You just talked 355 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,479 Speaker 1: to Jim McGovern is a good guy Rules Committee chairman, 356 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: but if you're asking the right question, what he'll tell 357 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: you is they write a separate rule for every single bill, 358 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 1: so they change the rules every single day in Congress, 359 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: and they could change those rules in order to make 360 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: reconciliation easy. What this is really about, I think is 361 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: the Democrats are worried about the politics of passing a 362 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,479 Speaker 1: huge spending bill and then in the next breath raising 363 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: the debt ceiling without any Republican support. That's hard to 364 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: sell in the heartland. It's hard to sell in those 365 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: purple districts. It could be used against them politically, and 366 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,360 Speaker 1: that's why I think they're not doing it yet. We're 367 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 1: spending some time with Nick mulvaney here on Bloomberg Sound 368 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: on the other big one, of course, is funding the government. 369 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: Here we're a week out, Mick. You've seen this movie 370 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: a lot of times. Republicans aren't going to buy the 371 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: bill that had the debt ceiling in it. So it 372 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: looks like Democrats will come back with a clean CR. 373 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: Is there any chance that you see right now that 374 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: not getting done in time or the government stays funded. No. 375 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: Once the Democrats the well, while the debt ceiling can 376 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: be reconciled, the spending bill cannot, so that the bill 377 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 1: to keep the government functioning the short term, what we 378 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 1: call contineering resolution a CR spending bill does have to 379 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 1: have sixty votes in the Senate, and I think by 380 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 1: the time you get up against sept everyone's deathly afraid 381 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: of a of a government shutdown in Washington, d C. 382 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 1: I think we all prove no one the voters don't 383 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: really care about it, um, but they're deathly afraid of it. 384 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: And at the end of the day before September, there 385 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: will be a clean cr past in order to probably 386 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 1: fund the government through probably December. Before you go away, 387 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: I want to ask you quickly about crypto you founded 388 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:56,199 Speaker 1: before it was hipped. The Congressional Blockchain Caucus also on 389 00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: the board, and me about that because bitcoin was two 390 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: hundred four dollars, I'm not gonna ask you how many 391 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: coins you own, and it was I thought it would 392 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: be a conflict of interest, so I did a bunch 393 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:09,400 Speaker 1: of kids in my office pot it made a great 394 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: deal of money. Wow, all right, we need to interview 395 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: them next. You're also you're on the board at the 396 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: Chamber of Digital Commerce. It looks like we're this is 397 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: going to be regulated. What does the SEC need to 398 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: do and what should they not do in attempting to 399 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 1: regulate I'll say cryptocurrency instead of specifically bitcoin, the coins themselves. 400 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: How should this work? Um? I think they just need 401 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: to be cognizant of the power that they have to 402 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 1: do both good and evil, and talking about the sec now, 403 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: the industry has been asking for some guidance and that 404 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: means regulation for a decade now, simply because especially when 405 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: crypto first came out, we weren't really sure what it was. 406 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: Was it an asset, was it a financial document? Was 407 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,120 Speaker 1: it was a currency? What was it? And they were 408 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: looking for guys and they're still looking for that. What what? What? 409 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: What the industry is fearful of is overreaction and oversimplification. 410 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: UM Washington works in fifteen second sound bites, and it's 411 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 1: really hard to to to to regulate a complex market, 412 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: which is what crypto has become, in fifteen second sound bites. 413 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 1: So we don't want overreaction to someone to say, oh, 414 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: my goodness, crypto is used in UM in ransomware attacks, 415 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 1: Therefore it's evil. Let's get rid of the darn thing. 416 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: That's that's what they're hoping to avoid. And I think 417 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: what you're seeing interestingly is is is it very technology 418 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: is developing faster than ever. We all know that. I 419 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: actually think it's maturing socially faster than ever. And I 420 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: think many of the crypto companies, now, many of the 421 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,959 Speaker 1: coin operators have figured out that they have to behave 422 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: like like more mature companies. It's the days of them, 423 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: you know, sitting in their basement and launching anonymous attacks 424 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: on on Instagram against a senator or has to go, 425 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: and they need to behave more like mature financial services providers. 426 00:22:58,080 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: And I think you're seeing that, and I think that 427 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:06,719 Speaker 1: bodes well for reasonable regulation guidance going forward. I crossed. 428 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: I'm not a betting man in this particular circumstance, but 429 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: if I were, I would think that, uh, the sec 430 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: ultimately will will come down and do about the right 431 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: thing and will not regulate this industry out of existence. 432 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: Fascinating take from Mick mulvaney. Did you say it was 433 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 1: two hundred and forty the coining years. We'll talk about 434 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 1: that again. Mick mulvaney, Thank you so much for walking 435 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 1: us through all of that. Former Office of Management, budget Director, 436 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: Acting White House chief of staff, founder of Exogist Capital 437 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: with us live on Bloomberg sound On. We are fulfilling 438 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: the mission of this broadcast. I hope you've learned as 439 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 1: much as I have in the last twenty minutes. As 440 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 1: Mark Zany warrens about the potential for a default We're 441 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: not there yet. We have to still get through the 442 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,199 Speaker 1: government funding deadline next week. But as we've heard from 443 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,360 Speaker 1: the Treasury Secretary Janet, yeah, and sometime in mid October, 444 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,119 Speaker 1: it's going to count. And as Democrats try to figure 445 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: out the way forward here without Republicans, it seems the 446 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 1: chief economist that Moody's Analytics, Mark Sandy, is warning that 447 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: even a short default would be costly for generations. And 448 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: he's with us right now. Mark, welcome back. It's always 449 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 1: great to have you on Bloomberg. Do you, for starters, 450 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,640 Speaker 1: see a default coming? I think the odds are low, 451 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: just because logic would dictate lawmakers wouldn't go down that path, right, 452 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 1: I mean, if they did, I think it would be 453 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: kind of clismic to markets and to the economy. They 454 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: must know that, and given that they know that, they 455 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 1: just won't won't go there. But you know, having said that, 456 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 1: there's a lot of moving parts here, and a lot 457 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: of things have to get done before the drop dead date, 458 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: which by my calculation is October twentie So there's a 459 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: lot of risk here. And and the other thing I'd 460 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: say is, you know, the longer this drags on, UH 461 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 1: and the more becomes uh partisan that you know, the 462 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 1: that the Democrats by themselves have to get this done. 463 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: I think that just sets this that limit drama up 464 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:08,880 Speaker 1: to be even more of a problem down the road 465 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: because the party that some power is gonna have to 466 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: do it on their own without the other, and that's 467 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,959 Speaker 1: going to be a problem. Well, we've seen the credit 468 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: ratings agencies act just on the concern before, right, how 469 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: close do you have to get to the cliff before 470 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: s and P or Moody's start questioning our credit worthiness? 471 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 1: You know, I I don't speak for the rating agency. 472 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,679 Speaker 1: I I don't know. I mean, obviously SMP, you know, 473 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:39,120 Speaker 1: the downgraded the US Treasury debt back in the eleven 474 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: drama overall of this, so according to S and P, 475 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: we're no longer triple A. So you know, I don't 476 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,120 Speaker 1: know what the rating agencies are thinking, but I think 477 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: in the minds of investors that if you get you know, 478 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: if you could go down this path too many more times, 479 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 1: certainly if you're default, I mean, then you know, I 480 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,160 Speaker 1: can't imagine the ratings won't change. You write that, even 481 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 1: if resolved quickly in a note to clients, Americans would 482 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: pay for this default for generations. As global investors would 483 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 1: rightly believe, the federal government's finances have been politicized. That's 484 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: what we're really talking about here, Mark, that politics have 485 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: creeped into policy to a point where you can't predict 486 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 1: what's going to happen. Yeah, that's right. I don't know, people, 487 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: I don't think recognize the value of the fact that 488 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 1: global investors think when they buy our treasury debt, it's 489 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: money good. You know, that they're going to get their 490 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: principle and interest payments on time, and that that principle 491 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: was established at the founding of our nation and Alexander Hamilton, 492 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: the first Treasury Secretary, did that with revolutionary war bonds, 493 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: and that has reaped so much benefit to us in 494 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: the form of much lower interest rates than in the 495 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: rest of the world. And the reserve, the dollars of 496 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,199 Speaker 1: reserve currency, and that tremendous benefit to us. And you know, 497 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,719 Speaker 1: to give that up because of some crazy, you know, 498 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 1: political chicanery around something as silly as the dealoment is 499 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,679 Speaker 1: just mind boggling. Though it's really very important that you know, 500 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: lawmakers kind of come together here, as you know, I know, 501 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 1: it's hard to do. But you know, it makes complete 502 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: sense to come together because this is a shared responsibility 503 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 1: in my view, both Republicans and Democrats past legislation that 504 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 1: contributed to the deficits and the higher debts, so so 505 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: shared responsibility for them to raise the debt limit and 506 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 1: that's the right thing to do. Does it send a 507 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,919 Speaker 1: message that that it will not be bipartisan, that this 508 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 1: is now in fact politicized to the point where apparently 509 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: only the majority party can handle it. Yeah, I worry 510 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: about I mean, I think there's still a shot here, 511 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: although that seems to be falling in probability pretty quickly. 512 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: That you know, maybe the Democrats can put forward a 513 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: bill that the funds the government, you know past the 514 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: October one date, includes a suspension of the debt limit 515 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 1: for some period of time, and the Republicans at least 516 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: don't filibuster it. Not they don't have to vote for it, right, 517 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: but it's just not filibuster it. Um. But you know, 518 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: if they do full a bus, right, then it's going 519 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: to be on the Democrats to you know, do it 520 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: under their reconciliation build that big three point five trillion 521 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: dollar reconciliation bill, and that you know again they can 522 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: do it, but it's gonna cost us. It's gonna means 523 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,880 Speaker 1: that we're going to be lined up for very very 524 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: partisan you know, debt limit increases our suspension in the future, 525 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 1: and I think that means more uncertainty, that means higher 526 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,679 Speaker 1: interest race, and it's going to cost us as taxpayers, 527 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,880 Speaker 1: and it's going to cost our economy. I know you're 528 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: an economists, but you're also a watcher of capital hill. 529 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: Do you think it ends up in the three and 530 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: a trillion dollar reconciliation or do they create a different 531 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: vehicle if if not a separate reconciliation bill to do that. 532 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: I know that there's only supposed to be one, but 533 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: you know, I don't write the rules in Yeah, I 534 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: don't think they can know under the rules they can't, 535 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: so I don't I think they You know, there's obviously 536 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: a lot that this is part of the point. There's 537 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: a tremendous confusion around us because obviously we don't go 538 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: down this path very often. But when you invoke reconciliation, 539 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: the reconciliation process it's very complicated. And you know, if 540 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: a lamentarian in the Senate who kind of decides what 541 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: can go and record is reconciliation or not. So there's 542 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: all kinds of our you know, our can you know 543 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: rules here, and that that's one reason to be a little, 544 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: you know, somewhat nervous that even if the Democrats decide, okay, 545 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: we gotta get this into our reconciliation bill, that you know, 546 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 1: they may not do it in time. They may actually 547 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: you know, footfalls, misstep and someone doesn't get paid all time, 548 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: so that risk is not inconsequential. That's why this conversation 549 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: is important. I realized that, well, I mean, there are 550 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,719 Speaker 1: there are good intentions in getting this fixed, but sometimes 551 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: it doesn't go the way you plan. And that's why 552 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: a brief, even a brief default is something that you're 553 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: writing about. But you also point out mark lastly in 554 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: your note that when the US has come close to 555 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: defaulting or saw payments accidentally delayed in the past, each 556 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: time investors demanded more returned for buying Treasury securities, forcing 557 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: up government borrowing costs. Is that still possible. Yeah, I 558 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: think that's the case. I mean, there's a really interesting 559 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: event back in nine when the Treasury, because of a 560 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: word processing equipment failure, couldn't get Treasury bill payments out 561 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: to investors on time. It was completely inadvertent, a mistake, 562 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: you know, was the payments were made up, you know, 563 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: within days. But the careful study shows that that caused uh, 564 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: you know, interest remain elevated for months and it costs 565 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 1: taxpayers tens of billions of dollars just because that silly, 566 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: simple mistake. And now can you imagine, you know, if 567 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: it's an intentional mistake, you know, an intentional of default. 568 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: You know that we knew better, but we still did 569 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: it because the political reasons. That'll cost us, you know, 570 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 1: a lot of money going forward. God forbid. Mark Zany, 571 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: chief economist Moody's Analytics. Mark, thank you for helping us 572 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: understand a little bit more about this and what risks 573 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: we might be facing. This is Bloomberg sond On with 574 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. You heard Congressman Jim McGovern, 575 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: chair of the Rules Committee, at the start of this 576 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: hour the Democrats saying Kevin McCarthy, Republican leader in the House, 577 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: is misinformed on the debt ceiling, and he had more 578 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: to say, Kevin McCarthy, um is not only misinformed, but 579 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: you know, in my opinion is a poor excuse for 580 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: Republican leader. I mean, I'm just so sick of the lies. 581 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: And we did hear from Kevin McCarthy, the Republican leader 582 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 1: in the House, at his own things to say about 583 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: Democrats there have their internal firing squad right now, upset 584 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: with each other because one side won't vote for it 585 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: unless they get reconciliation. So whatever agreement they come upon 586 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: is not about the infrastructure bill. It's about whether they 587 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: can spend five trillion dollars. Good thing we have the panel. 588 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: Rick and Genie are with us Bloomberg Politics contributors Genie 589 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: Chanzano and Rick Davis. Rick, what do you make of this? 590 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: When you get to the point here of coming up 591 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: on deadline, something needs to happen. You need a break. 592 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 1: We're talking about a lot of money. This is when 593 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: the ugly politics start to emerge, right, and some of 594 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: the talk that we're hearing, Yeah, because you've got to 595 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: get to an end point soon, and so everybody's really 596 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: taken out some pretty tough positions. Uh, it will be 597 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: interesting two years from now if the Republicans gained control 598 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 1: of the House of Representatives. To hear Speaker Kevin McCarthy 599 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 1: complain about having to raise the debt ceiling because the 600 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: Democrats spent five trillion dollars on public interest spending. And uh, 601 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: it's the same conversation you have it now about the 602 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: Democrats claiming this is all Trump debt. The bottom line 603 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: is there are ways to get this done. I agree 604 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: with what Paul's Andy was saying that the risks far 605 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 1: outweigh the politics on this. And and I'm really scratching 606 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 1: my head because having spent you know, a lot of 607 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: time in politics, I don't see how anybody gains a 608 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: political advantage on something like the debt ceiling. Voters aren't 609 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: going to vote for that. Government shutdowns are incredibly unpopular. Uh, 610 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: And so I really don't see the political upside to 611 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: any of this gamesmanship that we're seeing on both parties side. 612 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: Right now, what do you make of this genie, the 613 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: debt ceiling. We've talked about it a lot, but it's 614 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 1: clear that Republicans are not going to be involved in 615 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: this and Democrats will have to go it alone. But 616 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: after our conversation there with Mark Zandi and f after 617 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: what we talked about with the Congressman McGovern it's likely 618 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: that if this is going to be handled, it will 619 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: have to go in the existing reconciliation bill, which could 620 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: make things even more complicated. It could, and you know, 621 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: Marc Sinti at one point said something about maybe common 622 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: sense will prevail and you know, maybe they would work together. 623 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: And you know, listening to those two clips that you 624 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: just played, and of course to the conversation going on 625 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: in Washington for the last few months, it is clear 626 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: that that is not going to happen. And to your point, 627 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,479 Speaker 1: Democrats are going to have to go this alone. You know, 628 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: it is fascinating because of course, this is this game 629 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: that both sides have been playing with the debt ceiling 630 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 1: over the last decade or so, and it is going 631 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: to be increasingly used as a tool for them to 632 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 1: extract from the other side some kind of concession. But 633 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: if you think about it from the perspective of Americans 634 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: looking at this, to bring the United States to this 635 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: point of such a dangerous level, as Mark Sany was 636 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 1: talking about, so that you can extract some kind of 637 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 1: concessions that to ricks point voters don't even vote on, 638 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,800 Speaker 1: is going you know, it is hard pressed to imagine 639 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: where we are today in Washington, d C. When we 640 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: are left with this and you know, even the basics, 641 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,720 Speaker 1: we can't agree to the facts. At least our leaders 642 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 1: can't agree to whose debt are we paying the past 643 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: or the future? You know, that's a basic question that 644 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,359 Speaker 1: nobody seems, at least in leadership, seems to be able 645 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 1: to agree on. Mickmilvany Rick said, it's both. Yes, parts 646 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: of it is both. I mean, it allows you to 647 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 1: spend more, so you're releasing some of the limits on 648 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,479 Speaker 1: what the debt you can have. But like it's also 649 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 1: the past. Right, it's it's both Donald Trump spending, but 650 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,919 Speaker 1: it's also a trillion dollars of stimulus package that Joe 651 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: Biden put on the table the very first week he 652 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: was in office. So I think one of the things 653 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 1: that we're missing, and and and and uh Zany mentioned this. 654 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: He said, you know, as long as the Republicans don't 655 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: fill a bus or this in the Senate, you can 656 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: get a cr through right away. And he's right, because 657 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:21,319 Speaker 1: of the the technique called unanimous consent, it could get 658 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 1: brought up, uh on a standalone basis. Republicans say nothing 659 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 1: unanimous consent passes, and you're off to the races. Uh. 660 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 1: The problem McConnell has with that is he can't control 661 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 1: Ted Cruz, Josh Holly, and Ran Paul. If those three 662 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: guys were out of the room when they did this, 663 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,800 Speaker 1: you'd probably get this to go through without a single 664 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:46,320 Speaker 1: Republican no vote. Wait, can you imagine a world, Genie? 665 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 1: I can't imagine the world. And I think one of 666 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: the stunning things I've been looking at is that you 667 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 1: have even some of the more moderate Republicans who are 668 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: willing to let this happen. We've heard from them, people 669 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: like Romney, Lisa Murkowski and others who you know, are 670 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 1: willing to bring the nation to this brink um to 671 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 1: make this point, and that to me is part of 672 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 1: the story that's been under reported. The Republicans have hung 673 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: together on this willingness not to you know, vote, even 674 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 1: you can't even find ten of them to vote to 675 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,760 Speaker 1: fund the United States debt or to lift the dead seat, 676 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 1: lift the debt ceiling. I want to get back to 677 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: this framework announced today on reconciliation. The pay for is 678 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,279 Speaker 1: even though we don't really have numbers, and frankly there's 679 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 1: no bill. They haven't agreed on everything that's going to 680 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 1: go in this When when Chuck Schumer announced that we 681 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 1: have a framework to go forward here he's got Janet 682 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 1: Yellen at his side, he was quickly left, quickly left 683 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 1: the stage, and of course reporters had nothing but questions about, well, 684 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 1: what does that mean? As Nancy Pelosi is at the bodywork, 685 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,240 Speaker 1: that means we are proceeding, that we've made great progress, 686 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 1: and we're proceeding. Yeah, and and no, but we now 687 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: went further because there were some specifics that we are 688 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,359 Speaker 1: in a city situation of Lamb eat lamb. There's so 689 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 1: many good provisions. What is affordable and what is uh 690 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,360 Speaker 1: effective and what gets the best results as soon as possible, 691 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: So that we made great progress this morning, because it's 692 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 1: in the writing. You know, you hear everybody coming out 693 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,359 Speaker 1: and talking about one thing or another, But we are 694 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:23,280 Speaker 1: writing legislation, writing legislation essentially, I guess Genie and effort 695 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: to say that we haven't given up on this. We're 696 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,399 Speaker 1: still moving forward, but we can't tell you anything about it. 697 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,240 Speaker 1: That's right. And I the quote of lamby Lamb, I'm 698 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 1: not even sure what to say about that, but you 699 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 1: know that I think it's bird of you know when 700 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 1: you when you described her as running down the hallway, Um, 701 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: that's really what I think we're seeing is the Democrats 702 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 1: trying to be optimistic, trying to keep people together and 703 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,759 Speaker 1: saying there is movement forward. But it's hard to know 704 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 1: what to think when not even a top line is understood, 705 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: let alone any of the details in this framework. Because truly, 706 00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: if they could get to a framework where they could 707 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,760 Speaker 1: get to a vote on Monday, we may see movement. 708 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: But you know, without any details, you're hard pressed to note. Now, 709 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,800 Speaker 1: let's say they could hammer this out Friday through Sunday 710 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: and get to a vote on Monday. Otherwise they're going 711 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,280 Speaker 1: to be facing a lot of pressure from these moderates 712 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 1: to hold that vote in the absence of an agreement 713 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 1: on the reconciliation bill. Just to make everything clear here, 714 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: she wasn't running. She was being chased by reporters, but 715 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: she was running at her own pace. By the way, 716 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,319 Speaker 1: can somebody bring me in on lammy lamb? What what 717 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,400 Speaker 1: are we talking about, Jennie? I'm not sure I was. 718 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: I started Google. I don't know, Rick, Is that a 719 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 1: saying I don't know? You asked her? Let her come 720 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 1: up with an answer that you know, go ahead. It 721 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,879 Speaker 1: could be lamb eat lamb, not dog eat dog. That yeah, 722 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,919 Speaker 1: but what does that mean? I'm sorry I asked. Now, 723 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,239 Speaker 1: you know, look, I think one of the answers to 724 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,239 Speaker 1: that question is that that you know a chairman Neil, 725 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,239 Speaker 1: you know house ways and means chairman came out a 726 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 1: week ago with a two point one trillion dollar UH 727 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: dollar amount that that he says he can raise through 728 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,479 Speaker 1: revenue racing UH to fund the reconciliation package. He didn't 729 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: say he could get three point five billion, he could 730 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 1: get two point one trillion or trillion. I'm sorry sometimes 731 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,359 Speaker 1: I get billions and trillions mixed up because I used 732 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: to a billion dollars. There's a lot of money, uh, 733 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 1: and I guess that's not the case anymore. But but 734 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,320 Speaker 1: assuming that, I mean, like they start with two point 735 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: one trillion that they had a week ago that they identified, Um, 736 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: does that mean the top numbers coming down to meet that? 737 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 1: Does that mean they found new money? I think these 738 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 1: are all legitimate questions when they bold blatantly say oh, 739 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 1: we found all the money we need. Um. John McCain 740 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:34,719 Speaker 1: us to have this great line when he was in 741 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 1: a fundraiser. He says, you know, the good news tonight 742 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,240 Speaker 1: is we've raised all the money we need for this campaign. 743 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,120 Speaker 1: The bad news is lots of it still in your 744 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:46,360 Speaker 1: purses and wallets. Rick Davis, Ladies and gentlemen, and Genie 745 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 1: with us for the hour here. I have to ask 746 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: you quickly about crypto, because we got into that for 747 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 1: just a bit with Mick mulvaney and the push to 748 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 1: regulate crypto, which appears to be inevitable. It's just a 749 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,840 Speaker 1: question of what form, uh it will take, and in mulvany, 750 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,359 Speaker 1: Genie seems to think that this is a reasonable end 751 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,400 Speaker 1: to this story, that this will be handled properly by 752 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,439 Speaker 1: Gainstler and the rest of the SEC. I do think 753 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:11,879 Speaker 1: there is a good chance. I think it's something where 754 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,240 Speaker 1: you do see at least, you know, some bipartisan agreement 755 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,279 Speaker 1: on the need. What that looks like in the end, 756 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,799 Speaker 1: I think is a different question. But I do think 757 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,879 Speaker 1: it's one of those areas, unlike policing and potentially infrastructure 758 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 1: and some of the others, where we may see Congress 759 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,440 Speaker 1: make some progress. And let's let's be clear, it is 760 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,239 Speaker 1: much needed at this point, so you know, to hear 761 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,839 Speaker 1: him talk about you know, and you asked him about that, 762 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 1: the crypto caucus that he ran so long ago. It's 763 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,839 Speaker 1: fascinating that how much that was in the zeitgeist even then, 764 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:45,400 Speaker 1: and how much it's fascinating two and four dollars coin. 765 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 1: I could feel his pain. I'll tell you what though, 766 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:51,879 Speaker 1: I don't know if you heard from Tom Brady. Yes, 767 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,279 Speaker 1: that Tom Brady wants to be paid in crypto. He 768 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,840 Speaker 1: talked about it on Jim Gray's show on Serious Excent 769 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,719 Speaker 1: Digital Ages upon Us. I don't think we're ever going back. 770 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:07,759 Speaker 1: We're using the technology information to track things much better. 771 00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,839 Speaker 1: And uh, I definitely see a world where players are 772 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 1: going to be paid in cryptocurrencies in the future. I 773 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 1: don't know where Grounk is when you need him here, Rick, 774 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,200 Speaker 1: But is that the equivalent of the shoeshine boy telling 775 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,000 Speaker 1: you to buy stocks? Absolutely, this is the one. The 776 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 1: one goat who doesn't need any extra cash is willing 777 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,600 Speaker 1: to take the future bet on crypto. Okay, fine with me, um, 778 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,880 Speaker 1: But look, I mean, obviously the sec IS is not 779 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,359 Speaker 1: happy with the current state of the crypto industry, and 780 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 1: Genzler has made it totally clear that they're going to 781 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 1: do something about it, whether it's on the lending side 782 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,760 Speaker 1: or whatnot. So stay tuned. There's more to go on Crypto. 783 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,680 Speaker 1: All right, we have confirmed Rick and Genie. It's Lamb 784 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:48,200 Speaker 1: eat lamb. Think of how much we've learned in the 785 00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 1: fastest hour in politics. It's called sound on and thanks 786 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,680 Speaker 1: to everyone for being with us Congress from MC governor 787 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 1: Mick mulviney and of course Marks Andy along with Rick 788 00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,279 Speaker 1: and Genie on the panel. Here. We'll do this again 789 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,200 Speaker 1: tomorrow the fry An Edition with our reporters Roundtable. I'm 790 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:03,920 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg