WEBVTT - Serj Tankian Talks Toxicity and Activism 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:27.196 Pushkin, System of a Down's classic Rick Rubin produced album 0:00:27.276 --> 0:00:32.196 Toxicity turns twenty this year. Released in two thousand and one, 0:00:32.516 --> 0:00:36.316 one week before nine eleven, the politically charged and wildly 0:00:36.356 --> 0:00:40.676 bizarre nature of Toxicity provided the perfect soundtrack for a 0:00:40.756 --> 0:00:50.076 world descending into chaos and the river and water after 0:00:50.236 --> 0:01:06.396 the swimming through the mine, we hear the word search Tonkin, 0:01:06.636 --> 0:01:10.276 the lead singer System, is no stranger to conflict. His 0:01:10.396 --> 0:01:14.396 families Armenian and migrated to la from Lebanon to escape 0:01:14.396 --> 0:01:17.756 a civil war when Surge was seven years old. In 0:01:17.876 --> 0:01:20.596 Los Angeles, he grew up in a tight knit Armenian 0:01:20.636 --> 0:01:23.676 community along with the rest of his younger System bandmates. 0:01:25.116 --> 0:01:27.636 As Surgeon's star began to rise in the late nineties, 0:01:27.836 --> 0:01:31.596 his activism intensified, and to this day, he continues to 0:01:31.676 --> 0:01:35.356 raise awareness around the Armenian genocide and the impact of 0:01:35.476 --> 0:01:39.956 corporate greed. Last month, he released the documentary Truth to Power, 0:01:40.476 --> 0:01:43.476 which documents the intersection of Serge's work as a musician 0:01:43.716 --> 0:01:47.076 and an activist. Today we'll hear Rick Ruman talked to 0:01:47.116 --> 0:01:50.156 his good friend's Surge about how hearing bombs drop outside 0:01:50.156 --> 0:01:54.476 his childhood bedroom turned him into a lifelong activist. Surge 0:01:54.556 --> 0:01:57.196 also explains how a pretty odd and funny line about 0:01:57.236 --> 0:02:00.596 a tapeworm almost caused System of a Down to break up, 0:02:01.396 --> 0:02:03.796 and why the first time Tomorello of Rage against the 0:02:03.836 --> 0:02:07.876 Machine hurt System Play. He called it music for crazy people. 0:02:11.836 --> 0:02:14.596 This is broken record liner notes for the digital age. 0:02:14.716 --> 0:02:24.876 I'm justin Richmond. Here's Rick Rubin and searche Tonkian. Maybe 0:02:24.916 --> 0:02:27.476 we start by talking about the movie. How did the 0:02:27.516 --> 0:02:31.876 movie come about? So the idea originally was in twenty eleven. 0:02:31.876 --> 0:02:34.396 We're you know, two elevens, the year that System of 0:02:34.436 --> 0:02:37.996 a Down started touring again after years of hiatus, and 0:02:38.156 --> 0:02:40.356 I knew I was going to have an incredibly busy 0:02:40.396 --> 0:02:43.276 professional year. I was touring with System of a Down, 0:02:43.356 --> 0:02:46.956 touring with my backup BANDFCC, doing orchestral shows with different 0:02:46.996 --> 0:02:51.756 orchestras around the world, going to Armenia protest movements like, 0:02:51.836 --> 0:02:54.076 doing all this crazy. That year I knew was going 0:02:54.116 --> 0:02:56.596 to be insane in terms of work. So I thought, 0:02:56.676 --> 0:02:58.996 you know what, I should put on a camera on 0:02:59.076 --> 0:03:02.516 my head like a GoPro and spyglasses and have someone 0:03:02.556 --> 0:03:05.356 following me the whole time, and let's record everything. And 0:03:05.516 --> 0:03:08.316 I did but I realized watching the footage after a 0:03:08.356 --> 0:03:11.836 while that, you know, the idea of a POV film 0:03:11.876 --> 0:03:15.076 of an artist looking behind the scenes is interesting if 0:03:15.116 --> 0:03:17.636 the artists can keep their heads still. But my head 0:03:17.796 --> 0:03:20.676 was like a bird like. It was impossible to watch 0:03:21.316 --> 0:03:23.876 and what is the meaning of all these experiences? Anyway? 0:03:23.876 --> 0:03:27.156 There was no narrative, no written theme or script or 0:03:27.196 --> 0:03:29.956 anything like that. So a friend of mine and I 0:03:29.996 --> 0:03:32.196 were discussing this, and I had the drives of all 0:03:32.276 --> 0:03:35.396 the footage, and he's like, what are we really trying 0:03:35.396 --> 0:03:37.236 to say? What do you what's the story you want 0:03:37.236 --> 0:03:40.196 to tell? And after discussing, you know, system of a 0:03:40.276 --> 0:03:44.236 down music art and all of this, it turned out, 0:03:44.276 --> 0:03:46.476 I mean, to me, the most interesting story was that 0:03:46.556 --> 0:03:51.276 of the activist in me, and how before music and 0:03:51.396 --> 0:03:55.116 before the success of the band, no small thanks to you, 0:03:55.116 --> 0:03:57.756 you know, I had a smaller voice, and then with 0:03:58.036 --> 0:04:01.236 the success of the band, my voice became more pronounced, 0:04:02.116 --> 0:04:05.436 and that had its ramifications as well as the fruits 0:04:05.436 --> 0:04:08.916 of that labors in terms of seeing things come into fruition. 0:04:09.556 --> 0:04:13.836 When did you first feel the desire to participate in 0:04:13.876 --> 0:04:17.316 the culture in this way as an activist? I was 0:04:17.356 --> 0:04:21.676 a teenager Rick and my grandfather, all my grandparents were 0:04:21.716 --> 0:04:26.596 survivors of the Armenian genocide, and their stories were very powerful, 0:04:26.636 --> 0:04:29.756 you know, how they saw their family parish and how 0:04:29.796 --> 0:04:34.236 they survived, and yet the US government hadn't formally recognized 0:04:34.276 --> 0:04:37.356 the Armenian Genocide. And for me, it was like, why 0:04:37.356 --> 0:04:40.756 are we living with this hypocrisy in a democracy where 0:04:41.036 --> 0:04:45.116 the government hasn't properly recognized the truth of history of 0:04:45.156 --> 0:04:49.476 what's happened to my people. And to me, that instantly 0:04:49.516 --> 0:04:52.196 made me an activist because I realized that there are 0:04:52.236 --> 0:04:55.676 so many other truths out there that are being denied 0:04:55.756 --> 0:05:00.036 for political expediency, economic purposes, or for whatever reason. That's 0:05:00.036 --> 0:05:02.436 what it was, So I was an activist before becoming 0:05:02.476 --> 0:05:06.876 an artist. Yeah, it's an interesting way in and the 0:05:06.956 --> 0:05:10.276 point you make about so much of what we're told 0:05:10.316 --> 0:05:13.116 it's not true. You know, it's like there's always a 0:05:13.236 --> 0:05:17.196 narrative that's for our whole lives. We've been presented these 0:05:17.196 --> 0:05:21.116 series of narratives and the history books that we were 0:05:21.156 --> 0:05:24.556 given as kids, probably you know, ninety percent of what's 0:05:24.556 --> 0:05:28.436 in them is not really true. It's a crazy revelation 0:05:28.556 --> 0:05:31.796 to have. Yeah, but it's interesting that you took that 0:05:31.836 --> 0:05:35.316 information and wanted to do something about it. I almost 0:05:35.316 --> 0:05:37.156 have the opposite feeling. It's like I don't want to 0:05:37.196 --> 0:05:41.236 do anything, like I just I accept that we're not 0:05:41.316 --> 0:05:45.356 being told what's going on. That's that's very interesting. And 0:05:45.716 --> 0:05:49.516 I have that feeling too sometimes, Rick, because you get overwhelmed, 0:05:49.596 --> 0:05:51.836 you know, on that end, and when you do, you're 0:05:51.836 --> 0:05:54.876 just like, I just want a musical project to jump 0:05:54.916 --> 0:05:57.596 into so I can lose myself in it and not 0:05:57.756 --> 0:06:00.796 think about all these worldly things, so I could just 0:06:00.836 --> 0:06:03.796 be an artist and be free again, and then I 0:06:03.836 --> 0:06:07.716 can gain that battery energy and love energy and then 0:06:07.756 --> 0:06:10.596 come back and fight a good fight. Beautiful. It's interesting 0:06:10.636 --> 0:06:13.276 because also I feel like the fact that you're taking 0:06:13.316 --> 0:06:15.956 action there is some belief in you that you can 0:06:16.036 --> 0:06:19.676 change something. And that's awesome, thanks brother. But you've changed 0:06:19.716 --> 0:06:22.916 a lot of things yourself, you know, in different ways though, 0:06:22.996 --> 0:06:26.476 and not on purpose, you know. Never it has never 0:06:26.556 --> 0:06:30.916 happened through wanting to change anything. It's always happened just 0:06:30.956 --> 0:06:34.636 through wanting to make something good and then something changes 0:06:34.676 --> 0:06:37.836 in reaction to it. But it's never been the goal 0:06:37.956 --> 0:06:40.956 to change anything, I don't think. But isn't that what 0:06:41.036 --> 0:06:43.596 it is? Like your vision, whatever that vision is, and 0:06:43.636 --> 0:06:46.436 you're following it properly, and you're you're you're being in 0:06:46.476 --> 0:06:48.836 tune with it, which I know you've always been, at 0:06:48.916 --> 0:06:51.636 least as far as I know. On you makes that change, 0:06:51.676 --> 0:06:55.036 whether it's music or or having artists that you work 0:06:55.076 --> 0:06:58.596 with feeling incredibly comfortable to create the best of what 0:06:58.676 --> 0:07:01.596 they create. I mean, that's it's a very unique gift 0:07:01.596 --> 0:07:05.716 that you know that I'm grateful that you've shared with us. Yeah, 0:07:05.716 --> 0:07:08.836 cool man, Let's talk about music a little bit. First 0:07:09.156 --> 0:07:11.076 varience of music in your life? What do you remember? 0:07:11.596 --> 0:07:13.836 First experience of music in my life would be my 0:07:13.916 --> 0:07:16.996 dad singing in the house. My dad had a wonderful, 0:07:17.036 --> 0:07:23.116 beautiful voice, still does, and loved singing musician, but not professionally, 0:07:23.476 --> 0:07:26.236 and because his dad died when he was really young, 0:07:26.796 --> 0:07:29.276 and he didn't think he could make a living doing music, 0:07:29.756 --> 0:07:34.916 and so he became a designer, shoe designer and studied 0:07:34.916 --> 0:07:37.916 in Milan and got into that business. But he would 0:07:37.916 --> 0:07:40.476 sing at home a lot. And in fact, the song 0:07:40.596 --> 0:07:42.876 that we show in the film that I sing with 0:07:42.916 --> 0:07:45.596 my dad, the song about the Stork, is a song 0:07:45.676 --> 0:07:48.076 that could be the first song I ever heard when 0:07:48.076 --> 0:07:50.156 I was really young and him singing it, and I 0:07:50.156 --> 0:07:52.396 would try to harmonize with him and sing with him. 0:07:52.636 --> 0:07:56.956 But I think that's the first musical memory that I 0:07:56.996 --> 0:08:00.036 have as a kid. Did your family speak Armenian in 0:08:00.076 --> 0:08:03.876 the house or English predominantly Armenian? Interesting, So would you 0:08:03.916 --> 0:08:08.436 say Armenian would be your first language? Sort of wow, 0:08:09.716 --> 0:08:13.156 I never knew that. Yeah. So I was born in Lebanon, 0:08:13.356 --> 0:08:16.796 and I was seven when we came over during the 0:08:16.876 --> 0:08:20.316 Lebanese Civil War and still spoke Armenian. Went to a 0:08:20.316 --> 0:08:23.076 private Armenian school here in Hollywood. I knew a little 0:08:23.076 --> 0:08:24.716 English when I was a kid, but you know, I 0:08:24.796 --> 0:08:28.476 learned it mostly in Los Angeles. And it's funny because 0:08:28.516 --> 0:08:32.396 when you're bilingual or multilingual, I think you always think 0:08:32.516 --> 0:08:35.836 in your first language, and that can change over time. 0:08:36.356 --> 0:08:39.036 So now when I speak Armenian, I'm actually thinking in 0:08:39.076 --> 0:08:41.956 English and speaking in Armenian, whereas before I used to 0:08:41.996 --> 0:08:44.276 think in Armenian and speak in English when I was younger. 0:08:44.916 --> 0:08:47.636 Really interesting. It also makes sense for some of your 0:08:47.716 --> 0:08:52.916 lyrical choices have always been While it's always poetic, sometimes 0:08:52.956 --> 0:08:55.156 the choice of the order of some of the words 0:08:55.236 --> 0:08:58.676 is like it's it's unusual, and I'm wondering if that 0:08:58.716 --> 0:09:02.556 comes from it being a second language. Very likely. Yeah, yeah, 0:09:02.636 --> 0:09:06.036 that reminds me. I remember people because when we were 0:09:06.076 --> 0:09:08.516 doing our first record, you were talking to me about 0:09:08.556 --> 0:09:13.916 certain miracle stanzas and don't ever get like, don't ever 0:09:13.996 --> 0:09:16.196 get stuck in this sky. And you told me, well, 0:09:16.556 --> 0:09:19.796 whatever you're on, whether it's pot or whatever, aren't you 0:09:20.116 --> 0:09:22.116 supposed to be in this? Guy Like you were like 0:09:22.196 --> 0:09:24.476 going yeah, But I'm like, yeah, but the way I 0:09:24.516 --> 0:09:26.516 see it is don't ever get stuck in the sky 0:09:26.556 --> 0:09:28.836 because it's too good, like that kind of a thing. 0:09:28.876 --> 0:09:31.116 And so yeah, I know what you're saying. It's a 0:09:31.316 --> 0:09:34.516 kind of different way of seeing things. It's a different perspective, 0:09:34.596 --> 0:09:39.036 I guess. Interesting. So cool. It's fascinating because we know 0:09:39.076 --> 0:09:42.556 each other so well to talk about this stuff. Just 0:09:42.836 --> 0:09:46.476 really interesting, it is. Do you remember your first experience 0:09:46.516 --> 0:09:50.836 of Western music of like popular music. I don't remember 0:09:50.876 --> 0:09:53.916 what's the first popular or Western music, but I do 0:09:53.996 --> 0:09:56.676 remember the first records that I ever bought, and I 0:09:56.756 --> 0:10:00.196 was probably seven or eight years old. Columbia House had 0:10:00.276 --> 0:10:03.156 the you know, the club where you could join and 0:10:03.196 --> 0:10:05.876 you get like five or six finals for free and 0:10:05.916 --> 0:10:07.316 then you had to buy one a year or two 0:10:07.316 --> 0:10:09.476 a year. I forgot what it was, and I remember 0:10:09.476 --> 0:10:13.636 being really excited about it and getting those first five records, 0:10:14.276 --> 0:10:15.716 you know, I want to say. I mean it was 0:10:15.756 --> 0:10:20.756 seventy probably seventy six or seventy seven, right, So Rick 0:10:20.876 --> 0:10:24.076 James was in there, which was also at the time 0:10:24.636 --> 0:10:27.836 Barbara Streisan and Barry Gibb Guilty. Like I think about 0:10:27.876 --> 0:10:30.516 seven eight records that first year. What else was in there? 0:10:30.996 --> 0:10:34.076 Not a lot of rock, maybe Chuck Mangione or something 0:10:34.116 --> 0:10:37.556 like that, trumpet player, just different things whatever as a 0:10:37.636 --> 0:10:40.876 kid that I had heard from my uncle or someone play. 0:10:40.996 --> 0:10:43.556 My uncle really loves Stevie Wonder. He would play stev 0:10:43.716 --> 0:10:45.556 Wonder when we were living with them when we first 0:10:45.596 --> 0:10:48.796 came to the States. And a lot of soul. I 0:10:48.796 --> 0:10:52.716 remember a lot of soul from the seventies and disco obviously. Yeah. 0:10:53.516 --> 0:10:57.036 Do you remember living in Lebanon as a kid. I 0:10:57.156 --> 0:11:01.476 have specific visual memories, almost like snapshots, because I was young. 0:11:01.956 --> 0:11:05.156 So I remember my grandparents house where that was our house, 0:11:05.756 --> 0:11:09.356 and our little backyard where we used to play. I 0:11:09.396 --> 0:11:12.916 remember my school, our school that we went to, and 0:11:13.276 --> 0:11:15.196 a couple of others like the beach and a couple 0:11:15.236 --> 0:11:17.876 of sceneries, and then I remember the war, and what 0:11:17.956 --> 0:11:20.076 I remember about the war is in the war I 0:11:20.196 --> 0:11:23.276 just started. I remember ducking in our bedroom with my 0:11:23.316 --> 0:11:26.116 brother because of the bombs falling, and school was closed, 0:11:26.676 --> 0:11:29.436 and that really made a huge impression on me as 0:11:29.436 --> 0:11:32.996 a child, which translated into my activism as an adult, 0:11:33.116 --> 0:11:35.716 because you know, when we were making that song Boom 0:11:35.716 --> 0:11:38.596 and Michael Moore directed the video. If you remember, I 0:11:38.956 --> 0:11:42.716 still can't get the feeling out that dropping bombs is 0:11:42.756 --> 0:11:45.396 literally on the other side of being If hearing those 0:11:45.436 --> 0:11:49.716 bombs drops, it's a terrorizing feeling. Hearing bombs drop. They 0:11:49.796 --> 0:11:53.756 feel random and they terrorize the population. And if you've 0:11:53.796 --> 0:11:56.596 ever been in that situation of hearing bombs drop, you'd 0:11:56.676 --> 0:12:00.596 be very reluctant to order your own government or anyone 0:12:00.636 --> 0:12:03.996 to do that to anyone else. How quickly were you 0:12:04.036 --> 0:12:07.836 able to leave when that started? Your family? We were lucky. 0:12:08.156 --> 0:12:10.876 My dad was already planning on us migrating to the 0:12:11.116 --> 0:12:14.356 to the US and had done paperwork ahead of time, 0:12:14.756 --> 0:12:17.436 so we weren't We didn't know obviously before the war started, 0:12:17.516 --> 0:12:19.876 and so we were lucky. We were We got out 0:12:19.916 --> 0:12:23.916 pretty early. How long does that process take typically, I 0:12:23.916 --> 0:12:27.756 wouldn't know years, I would assume because he yeah, he 0:12:27.836 --> 0:12:30.156 had a brother in the you know, my uncle lived 0:12:30.156 --> 0:12:33.076 in New York and so I think he came visited him, 0:12:33.156 --> 0:12:37.196 started our paperwork in terms of you know, immigration, and 0:12:37.236 --> 0:12:40.956 then and then the war broke out. It became more difficult, 0:12:41.676 --> 0:12:44.756 and you know, it just my dad had to come 0:12:44.796 --> 0:12:46.516 six months after us. We had to come here with 0:12:46.516 --> 0:12:50.196 our mom and my dad followed us six months after. 0:12:50.636 --> 0:12:54.076 Was it only Ourmenians that were targeted? Oh no, No, 0:12:54.156 --> 0:12:57.436 I mean Ourmenians weren't specifically targeted. It was a whole 0:12:57.476 --> 0:13:02.676 civil war between you know, there were the Christian Phalunge movement, 0:13:02.716 --> 0:13:06.196 there were the Shiite movement, and there were the Sunnis. 0:13:06.276 --> 0:13:09.836 And it was just complete sectarian war, each supported by 0:13:09.876 --> 0:13:15.236 different you know, proxy nations from outside. And it was 0:13:15.396 --> 0:13:17.876 it was a mess and it's still a mess now 0:13:17.916 --> 0:13:20.836 after that huge bomb that went off last year. And 0:13:20.916 --> 0:13:23.236 I have a friend there, and the banking system is 0:13:23.276 --> 0:13:26.076 all frozen up. I mean, people with money can't even 0:13:26.116 --> 0:13:27.956 get you know, they can only get a thousand dollars 0:13:27.996 --> 0:13:30.476 a month out of their bank account, even if they 0:13:30.516 --> 0:13:32.636 have a lot of money. I mean, there's a lot 0:13:32.636 --> 0:13:35.516 of you know, COVID's bad and you know from what 0:13:35.596 --> 0:13:38.076 I hear, I've only been to Lebanon once since we 0:13:38.156 --> 0:13:40.636 left as a kid in twenty eleven, the year that 0:13:40.716 --> 0:13:43.876 I decided to shoot everything that I was you know, experiencing, 0:13:43.916 --> 0:13:46.316 and I took my parents back and they were older 0:13:46.316 --> 0:13:48.476 when they moved. You know, my brother and I were 0:13:48.476 --> 0:13:51.676 like four and seven, but they were in their thirties 0:13:51.676 --> 0:13:53.556 when they moved. So for them it was a very 0:13:54.356 --> 0:13:59.996 prolific kind of you know, experience going back. How don't 0:14:00.036 --> 0:14:02.236 I don't know whether the word is tight or cohesive? 0:14:03.116 --> 0:14:06.796 Was the Armenian experience in Los Angeles. There are a 0:14:06.796 --> 0:14:09.676 lot of Armenians in Los Angeles, probably the second largest 0:14:09.676 --> 0:14:13.996 diasporan community outside of Armenia. Russia would probably be the first, 0:14:13.996 --> 0:14:16.996 but it's quite close. Those are the two largest UM 0:14:17.196 --> 0:14:20.996 communities UM. And that's very interesting to you politically for me, 0:14:21.076 --> 0:14:23.556 because you've got you know, a lot of Armenians in 0:14:23.596 --> 0:14:25.596 the Russian sphere and then you've got a lot of 0:14:25.636 --> 0:14:29.316 Armenians here on polar opposite side of the political spectrum, 0:14:29.396 --> 0:14:33.756 you know, between those two nations. But the community, it 0:14:33.796 --> 0:14:36.556 got bigger over the years. When I came there, there 0:14:36.596 --> 0:14:38.716 were there were a number of Armenians. It wasn't as 0:14:38.716 --> 0:14:42.236 big as there is now, like Glendale or Hollywood, but 0:14:42.316 --> 0:14:46.156 it was nice, you know, having the you know, especially 0:14:46.196 --> 0:14:49.676 when you're just learning the language. It's nice having people 0:14:49.716 --> 0:14:52.836 from your culture around to kind of guide you and 0:14:53.436 --> 0:14:56.396 you know, especially as a kid. But at the same time, 0:14:56.396 --> 0:14:59.396 we were in mainstream you know, American culture and growing 0:14:59.476 --> 0:15:02.636 up in Los Angeles with all all that. I remember. 0:15:03.396 --> 0:15:06.916 I remember we lived in Hollywood in the mid seventies, right, 0:15:07.276 --> 0:15:09.636 and we used to walk to school in Hollywood, you 0:15:10.236 --> 0:15:13.916 colorful Hollywood pimps and hookers and all this stuff happening 0:15:13.916 --> 0:15:17.236 in My parents they didn't even, you know, wonder whether 0:15:17.236 --> 0:15:18.876 we were safe or not. They're like, yeah, grab your 0:15:18.876 --> 0:15:21.236 brother's hand and walked to school. I was like seven 0:15:21.236 --> 0:15:24.316 to eight. He was like fun. And now I'm thinking 0:15:24.356 --> 0:15:27.076 I would never let my kid walk up the street 0:15:27.076 --> 0:15:29.716 in Hollywood, you know or whatever. But like at the 0:15:29.796 --> 0:15:32.516 time it was it was more laxed, I guess, and 0:15:32.916 --> 0:15:37.356 maybe the violence wasn't as pronounced as it is now. Yeah, 0:15:37.476 --> 0:15:39.836 does California feel like home? Like if you think of 0:15:40.476 --> 0:15:45.556 home California. Look, majority of my friends and family are 0:15:45.556 --> 0:15:49.716 in Los Angeles, so you know, I feel comfortable here, 0:15:49.796 --> 0:15:52.316 but it does feel more like an office than a 0:15:52.396 --> 0:15:55.436 home to me. I remember hearing you talk to Ferrell 0:15:55.516 --> 0:15:58.196 on the show. I'm a fan of the you Know 0:15:58.316 --> 0:16:00.916 Broken Record podcast and I've been listening to it for 0:16:00.956 --> 0:16:04.196 a while and that really hit home for me because 0:16:04.676 --> 0:16:06.996 I feel more at home in New Zealand, lived there 0:16:07.036 --> 0:16:09.996 part of the year, got residency years ago, have a 0:16:10.076 --> 0:16:14.236 nice place there I'm thankful for and but and here 0:16:14.276 --> 0:16:16.676 I feel like it's more I do have a lot 0:16:16.716 --> 0:16:18.636 of friends and family, but it feels more of a 0:16:18.716 --> 0:16:22.476 rat race it is. You know, would you say that 0:16:22.516 --> 0:16:26.356 politics were part of system of a down from the beginning? 0:16:27.076 --> 0:16:29.676 I guess so. I mean, you know, a band is 0:16:29.876 --> 0:16:32.636 you know a good band. I think that creates interesting 0:16:32.756 --> 0:16:34.756 music is always going to be a push and pull 0:16:34.796 --> 0:16:38.996 of different personalities and different agendas. I think when you 0:16:39.076 --> 0:16:42.476 have everyone on one page doing one thing, that's cool 0:16:42.956 --> 0:16:46.756 because that makes things simpler. But I think the music 0:16:47.076 --> 0:16:50.316 is probably is not as interesting. And our band is 0:16:50.356 --> 0:16:53.836 like that. We're we're for distinct personalities with distinct ways 0:16:53.836 --> 0:16:56.996 of doing things, and the political was more my thing 0:16:57.036 --> 0:17:00.156 because I was an activist before becoming an artist, and 0:17:00.396 --> 0:17:02.996 luckily I had these guys in my band that would 0:17:03.436 --> 0:17:05.916 kind of make me go, Okay, you're going too far. 0:17:06.516 --> 0:17:10.116 And that's good because, you know, unless the whole thing's 0:17:10.116 --> 0:17:12.956 got to be political like rage, which is awesome because 0:17:12.996 --> 0:17:15.356 that's what they agreed upon, and I think that's amazing. 0:17:15.636 --> 0:17:18.196 But System was never just political, as you well know, 0:17:18.596 --> 0:17:21.676 but it was always there, you know. And and it's 0:17:21.716 --> 0:17:24.996 not just me, to be honest, the specifically there and 0:17:25.036 --> 0:17:28.716 I think also has a lot of ideas more social 0:17:28.836 --> 0:17:33.556 than necessarily political, but also challenging the social fabric of 0:17:33.596 --> 0:17:36.676 society some of the hypocrisies that are, you know. So 0:17:36.716 --> 0:17:39.396 I think it was definitely in our DNA as a 0:17:39.436 --> 0:17:41.916 band from the beginning. We'll be right back with more 0:17:41.956 --> 0:17:45.156 from Surge Tonkian and Rick Rubin. After a quick break, 0:17:49.956 --> 0:17:53.036 we're back with more from Searge Tonkian. What was the 0:17:53.156 --> 0:17:55.996 scene that System was born into, Like, what was going 0:17:56.036 --> 0:17:58.516 on in LA at the time that you guys started 0:17:59.556 --> 0:18:03.036 when we started radio wasn't playing our kind of music? Definitely, 0:18:03.396 --> 0:18:06.636 we kind of We're in this warehouse in North Hollywood 0:18:06.716 --> 0:18:08.796 doing our own thing. Not knowing what was going on 0:18:08.836 --> 0:18:12.036 in the musical world outside of us. It was very 0:18:12.076 --> 0:18:16.116 incubated in that sense. And when we first started playing 0:18:16.116 --> 0:18:19.556 on the scene, like the Rocksy and Whiskey were primarily 0:18:19.556 --> 0:18:24.316 opening up for you know, anything from an industrial band 0:18:24.516 --> 0:18:29.356 to other heavy bands out of Los Angeles or Santa Barbara. 0:18:29.396 --> 0:18:31.276 We had this band Snot that we used to play 0:18:31.276 --> 0:18:36.316 around town with a lot, and you know, they were 0:18:36.436 --> 0:18:40.276 very much hardcore slash punk kind of band, and we 0:18:40.436 --> 0:18:43.476 gravitated because we have definitely a lot of punk ethos 0:18:43.476 --> 0:18:47.036 to our metally type of rock music and it kind 0:18:47.036 --> 0:18:50.396 of really fit. But we didn't know what scene we 0:18:50.436 --> 0:18:52.956 were a part of until later we were like, oh, 0:18:53.036 --> 0:18:55.556 there's Corn and Deft Tones, there's this new metal scene 0:18:55.556 --> 0:18:58.676 coming out of Los Angeles. And then lucky for us, 0:18:59.156 --> 0:19:03.276 as we started working together, radio switched formats like literally 0:19:03.316 --> 0:19:05.676 at that time. I always say, as hard as you 0:19:05.716 --> 0:19:08.676 work and as creative as you can try to be, 0:19:09.196 --> 0:19:11.916 there's definitely a matter of a little matter of luck 0:19:11.956 --> 0:19:14.236 as well to kind of land in the right place 0:19:14.316 --> 0:19:16.596 at the right time. Absolutely, and so that's what was 0:19:16.636 --> 0:19:18.596 going on. Ki Rock wasn't playing our type of music 0:19:18.596 --> 0:19:21.516 when we started they switched right when we were about 0:19:21.596 --> 0:19:25.116 to get that second record out. Not only was ki 0:19:25.196 --> 0:19:29.836 Rock not playing your sort of music after they switched, 0:19:30.156 --> 0:19:35.196 and after they were playing hard music. The program director said, 0:19:35.876 --> 0:19:38.796 when hearing System were down, this is a band that 0:19:38.836 --> 0:19:42.596 we will never play on our station ever. I remember 0:19:42.636 --> 0:19:45.476 that when the first album came out, Yeah, we will 0:19:45.636 --> 0:19:49.076 never play this band. And then one year later, System 0:19:49.116 --> 0:19:52.116 was the number one requested band on the station. Isn't 0:19:52.156 --> 0:19:55.516 that amazing? And look, I you know again, I'm not 0:19:55.556 --> 0:20:00.036 on your show to do wax poetic on you, but honestly, 0:20:00.116 --> 0:20:02.356 like you know, if it wasn't for your support in 0:20:02.356 --> 0:20:05.516 those first years of being out there was no radio 0:20:05.996 --> 0:20:09.916 support and touring opening for Slayer, one of your it 0:20:10.436 --> 0:20:14.156 was amazing, like just building that, you know, foundation for 0:20:14.196 --> 0:20:17.196 a band, going on tour, playing Europe, getting shit thrown 0:20:17.236 --> 0:20:19.356 at from this layer crowd and learning how to handle 0:20:19.396 --> 0:20:22.476 an audience and boot camp, you know, proper boot camp 0:20:22.516 --> 0:20:25.676 as as as artists on the road, and that really 0:20:25.716 --> 0:20:28.156 built us so that when the second record came and 0:20:28.196 --> 0:20:30.996 we did and radio did switch format, so we were 0:20:31.036 --> 0:20:33.876 ready and we actually had a base, So it wasn't 0:20:34.196 --> 0:20:38.036 some radio band you're introducing into you know, the community. 0:20:38.276 --> 0:20:42.036 You know, instead you had this plethora of fans wanting 0:20:42.076 --> 0:20:44.556 to hear the music, and that was that really kicked 0:20:44.596 --> 0:20:47.676 in properly. Yeah, and it really all happened naturally. We 0:20:47.956 --> 0:20:50.676 can't say any of that was actually planned. The only 0:20:50.716 --> 0:20:54.316 plan was to make something really good and stick to it, 0:20:54.436 --> 0:20:58.316 you know, like make something great. And whoever was interested 0:20:58.356 --> 0:21:00.716 in this great thing we made, we wanted them to 0:21:00.796 --> 0:21:02.916 find out about it. I don't think there was ever 0:21:02.996 --> 0:21:05.596 the idea of converting people who don't like it to 0:21:05.716 --> 0:21:08.676 like it. I remember, you know, our friend Tamarrella. The 0:21:08.676 --> 0:21:10.756 first time I played it for him, He's like, this 0:21:10.796 --> 0:21:13.796 is crazy person's music. This is music for crazy people. 0:21:14.596 --> 0:21:18.596 It's like it was just so on the fringe at 0:21:18.636 --> 0:21:21.116 the time. And still I feel like, still it holds 0:21:21.236 --> 0:21:26.116 up in how extreme and ridiculous it is, but we 0:21:26.236 --> 0:21:29.716 get more used to it because it's gotten popular. If 0:21:29.756 --> 0:21:34.876 you if you took away the popularity, it's it's really crazy. 0:21:35.236 --> 0:21:38.156 It is, it really is. Tom said he was with 0:21:38.196 --> 0:21:40.156 you that first day you saw us at the Viper room. 0:21:40.196 --> 0:21:42.756 I didn't know that. Yeah, Tom was with us. I 0:21:42.796 --> 0:21:45.076 didn't remember that. And when I was talking to him, 0:21:45.116 --> 0:21:47.756 recently he was like, oh yeah, I was there, and 0:21:47.796 --> 0:21:51.916 I told Greg, this is nuts, this is crazy. But 0:21:51.996 --> 0:21:53.796 it was really fun. And I just as as I've 0:21:53.796 --> 0:21:55.956 told you before, I just remember laughing the whole show. 0:21:56.596 --> 0:22:00.196 You were laughing. I remember seeing you sitting on one 0:22:00.236 --> 0:22:02.636 of those booths, you know, up on top of the 0:22:02.676 --> 0:22:04.396 booth because there were so many heads in the audience 0:22:04.436 --> 0:22:07.196 and viper rooms a tiny place, and I just remember 0:22:07.236 --> 0:22:10.556 seeing you laughing and I and it's a positive encouragement that, 0:22:10.716 --> 0:22:13.796 you know, it's like, that's cool. It was super power. 0:22:13.916 --> 0:22:17.476 I mean, it was a positive It's a funny thing 0:22:17.796 --> 0:22:25.276 doing you know, kind of screaming somewhat questionable lyrics and 0:22:25.316 --> 0:22:30.036 how that can be interpreted as this positive like unity experience. 0:22:30.076 --> 0:22:32.236 And it was, you know, it really was. It felt 0:22:32.276 --> 0:22:35.956 like there was great solidarity in the audience. People were 0:22:35.996 --> 0:22:38.756 getting what they needed at that show, and the band 0:22:38.836 --> 0:22:41.876 was just great. That was fun. I remember talking to 0:22:41.876 --> 0:22:45.516 you after we went outside and we were so enthused 0:22:45.556 --> 0:22:47.876 that you were there, bro, like so excited. If you 0:22:47.916 --> 0:22:50.276 look at System of a Down it's an established band 0:22:50.316 --> 0:22:52.716 now and whatnot. But like you said, it was this 0:22:52.876 --> 0:22:56.396 crazy man's music just going off and these weird lyrics. 0:22:56.436 --> 0:22:58.996 I might have even had a distortion pedal feeding back 0:22:59.036 --> 0:23:01.716 on stage, which is like, who the fuck wants to 0:23:01.756 --> 0:23:04.596