1 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: Once again we were venturing down into the vault, this 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: time to come back on part two of the episode 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: that we started last Saturday, that we re ran from December. 6 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 1: This is going to be an episode that aired on 7 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: December three called Better Living through Tetris. More colored blocks, 8 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: rushing out of the void of the vault to Healless 9 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: which do you think is the most healing of the 10 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: Tetris shapes? Is it? Is it the L Is it 11 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: the T? No? No, it's the straight line of four blocks, 12 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: because that's the that's the money block. That's the one 13 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: that allows you to get that that wonderful four rows 14 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: eliminated at one time, catching money. All Right, without further ado, 15 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: let's dive in. Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind 16 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: from how Stuff Works dot Com. Hey you welcome to 17 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: Step to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb 18 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: and I am General McCormick, and today's episode is part 19 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: two of a two part episode about the science of Tetris, 20 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: really the science of Tetris, but also the history and 21 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: philosophy of Tetris, because, as I said in the last episode, 22 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: I have a very very strong intuition that Tetris is 23 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: not just an invented artifact of the work of human 24 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: hands and human minds, but is somehow a natural, fundamental 25 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: outgrowth of the phantasmagorical blood magic of the universe. It 26 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: comes from the cosmos itself. It's not just something we made. 27 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: It was here and in nineteen eighty four, the creator 28 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: of Tetris, Alexei Pajutnov, discovered it. I like that the 29 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: idea of discovering Tetris as this uh, this sort of 30 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: dimension of of mathematical affection. Yeah, underlying reality totally. And 31 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: in the last episode we talked a little bit about that, 32 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: about where Tetris came from and its influences, and then 33 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: about the Tetris effect, this uh, this syndrome, this experience 34 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 1: commonly reported by Tetris players where they where it sort 35 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: of takes over their minds. They see Tetris in everything 36 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: throughout the world. They hallucinated, they dream about it, and 37 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: we talked about some possible explanations for that, as well 38 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: as how Tetris skills develop in the brain and the 39 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: interesting fact that that people who cannot form episodic memories 40 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: can still form hallucination recall for Tetris that counterintuitively, expert 41 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: Tetris players use less brain energy than novice Tetris players 42 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: at higher levels of play. So there's a lot that's 43 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 1: very fascinating and weird and mysterious about the game Tetris itself. 44 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: But today we wanted to talk about how some of 45 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: this science of tetris, uh, how it works as a game, 46 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: and how Tetris can be used to solve problems in 47 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: the real world. Yeah, and a lot of this, uh. 48 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: The first portion of this episode, a lot of it 49 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: relates to just why do we love it? So? Why 50 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: is it so satisfying to play tetris? Um and uh, 51 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: and the the the science behind this is it's a 52 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: lot more interesting than you might think it's it. It 53 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: goes pretty deep into just how we think and how 54 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: we process the world. Absolutely, So, if you haven't listened 55 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: to part one, go back listen to part one, uh first, 56 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: and then come and join us again here where we 57 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: will continue the cosmic journey of Tetris and clear those 58 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: lines again and again and again. Alright, So why do 59 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: we love Tetris. Why don't we play it so much? 60 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: Why did it have such an impact to begin with? Well, 61 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: we should back up and ask why we play any 62 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: game so much? Why do we love any game? I mean, 63 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: as we observed in the last episode, there there's a 64 00:03:55,440 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: difference between a really good game and a non so 65 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: good game. And it's not just I mean, these days 66 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: a lot of people might refer to things because of 67 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: the complexity of games on newer generations and things like 68 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: graphics and story and you know, because you have these 69 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: action adventure games that are that are so complex and 70 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: all that. There's more so that you're immersing yourself in 71 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: an unreal world. Yeah yeah, yeah, So ignoring all that 72 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: and just getting back to the basics of simple types 73 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: of games and gameplay. Puzzle games, uh, playing Tetris versus 74 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 1: playing I don't know what's another early puzzle game, the 75 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 1: Texas Chainsaw Massacre video game on the which did really exist. 76 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,679 Speaker 1: Don't don't bother looking at it, You'll just get sad. Yeah, wanted, wanted? 77 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: Why are these games? So? Why don't we immerse ourselves? 78 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: And the how does this work? One idea that seems 79 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: pretty strongly supported is that very rewarding and enjoyable game 80 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: play and game mechanics come from this psychological process that's 81 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: been described under the term cognitive flow flow. Yeah. Yeah, 82 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 1: at at heart, any good game is tapping into cognitive flow. 83 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: As Sean Baron broke down in a two thousand twelve 84 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 1: Gama Sutra article, it breaks down as follows and Tetris 85 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: boils this down perfectly to a highly concentrated mental gaming experience. 86 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,359 Speaker 1: You have concrete goals and manageable rules, plus goals that 87 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: fit player capabilities, plus clear and timely feedback, plus an 88 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: elimination of distractions, and this equals cognitive flow. Yeah. So 89 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: it's a game essentially where you understand how to play, 90 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 1: you can play, you have the skill. It's yet it's 91 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: challenging enough that it's not boring. You're constantly getting feedback 92 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: on how well you're doing, and there's not extraneous stuff 93 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: going on. It's just perfect focus, zeroing in on a 94 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: perfect brain consuming to ask that is just challenging enough 95 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: to always keep you engaged. Yeah. Now, that's not to 96 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: say that cognitive flow is just a result of gaming. 97 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: It in our daily lives, be it in your work. 98 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: If you're lucky or you know, in your hobbies or 99 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: even in just random chores that you have down, you know, 100 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: skill wise. Um in the term itself comes from psychologist Mihi. 101 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: Chick sent me high, the Hungarian psychology professor who pioneered 102 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 1: the study of cognitive flow. I like this guy's research. 103 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: I've read about it before, and it's interesting to me 104 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: because this is what people would, I think often call 105 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: positive psychology. So much of what is studied in psychology 106 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: or psychiatry deals with people who are having less than 107 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: optimal experiences. And this is an attempt to study, well, 108 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: what's going on when humans are just really at their 109 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: peak mental experience, when they're feeling great, when things are 110 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 1: going well inside their heads, what's happening there? And and 111 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: the thing he identified is that a key to a 112 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 1: sort of happy existence or a happy experience is this 113 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: process of flow. Yeah, indeed, and uh, you know, it's 114 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: interesting looking back to the previous episode where the stick 115 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: gold study started off and ended up getting into the 116 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: tetris area by considering people who engaged in um in 117 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: rock climbing, and then they would perceive rock climbing later. 118 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: Uh And and overall his study was about looking at 119 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: people who engage in novel physical or mental activities for 120 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: extended periods of time and how they often experienced on 121 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: the hallucinatory replay of the activities. And with the check 122 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: semi hi, we see rock climbing come up again because 123 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: as an avid rock climber, that's where he first took 124 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: note of this special feeling in his own experience that 125 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: he got while inching his way up a challenging rock face. 126 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: He began thinking about it in terms of his psychology studies, 127 00:07:58,400 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: and he laid it out pretty much as we've been 128 00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: to discussing that flow is about having set goals, having 129 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: uh a self contained universe. So you especially see this 130 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: in gaming right where they're something like Tetris. The rules, 131 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: the space, it's all pretty well defined. There's there's less ambiguity, 132 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: you get immediate feedback if you're doing it right. Contains 133 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: a manageable challenge. It's hard, but you can do it, 134 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: a sense of control over the situation, at least until 135 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: you reach the upper levels UH, and you're completely involved 136 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: in what you're doing, and so this results in a 137 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: sense of ecstasy UM, great interclarity, a confidence that what 138 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 1: you're doing is doable, and then you have the skills 139 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: to tackle it, a sense of serenity, a sense of timelessness, 140 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: and intrinsic motivation to keep going. It becomes fun in itself. 141 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: I mean, there's no reason you have to play a tetris. 142 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: You know, nobody, nobody's giving you tangible rewards or punishments 143 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: based on how many lines you clear. But it becomes 144 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:02,439 Speaker 1: intrinsically motivating. There's something about the activity itself that's pleasing 145 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: enough that you have to go on. And it shuts 146 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: down the chatter and your brain. It shuts down that 147 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: default mode network, all those little voices and the that 148 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: are worrying about the past or the future. It all 149 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: goes dull as your brain, uh tackles the problem at hand, 150 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: be it climbing a rock, working on an article, mowing 151 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: the yard, or playing tetris. Yeah, totally. So. If you 152 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: look at all of the conditions that must be present 153 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: to create the optimal sense of flow, I think Tetris 154 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:36,199 Speaker 1: is almost perfectly designed to satisfy them. Like it's hard 155 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: to think of a cleaner distillation of exactly what those 156 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: conditions are. The clear goals, stack them, clear lines, manageable rules, 157 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: it's absolutely clear what's going on in Tetris. Uh. Tetris 158 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 1: adjusts itself to your capabilities. So at the beginning it's easy. Uh. 159 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: If you are a very good player, you can move 160 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: up to higher difficulties pretty quickly. Uh. Gives you an 161 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: adjustment period. But the difficulty changes and tracks with you 162 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: as you play. You know, as you go up higher, 163 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: you get farther, it gets harder and more challenging. There's 164 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 1: feedback and that you can like. The music is an 165 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: interesting feedback thing. In Texas, Texas, I say Texas again 166 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: in Tetris. As you keep stacking higher, I don't know 167 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: if you remember that, the music gets faster. It's letting 168 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: you know, okay. And of course there's very obvious visual feedback. 169 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: You know, you you can clearly see as you're getting 170 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: towards the ceiling of the screen, this is not what 171 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: you want. And what is there that's extraneous? I mean nothing, 172 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: it's it's all there. And uh, and of course it 173 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: works even better if you can just uh sort of 174 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,439 Speaker 1: like put a black blanket over your head and tape 175 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: your eyes directly to the Tetris screen so that nobody 176 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: can walk in and say like, hey, there's a fire, 177 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 1: you need to evacuate the building. I mean, you just 178 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: you're there, You're in the zone. But there's some other 179 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:06,079 Speaker 1: theories we've come across that that help explain exactly why 180 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: Tetris feels like such a perfect game for our brains. 181 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: And one of the ones I wanted to mention was 182 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: actually something I saw alluded to in a brain Craft 183 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: video some of our periscope followers. We were talking to 184 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: him last Friday, and we mentioned that we were going 185 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: to do this episode, and they said, oh, you should 186 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: watch the Braincraft videos. So there, I think they're PBS. Yeah, 187 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:30,839 Speaker 1: PBS is behind it. I watched this as well. I 188 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: was entertaining. Yeah, and so they but they mentioned something 189 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: called the Zigarnic effect in reference to Tetris. So what 190 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: is the deal with this? Okay, so the Zigarnic effect 191 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: comes to us again. We looked to uh to Soviet thinking. 192 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: Here comes from Soviet to psychologist and psychiatrist Blooma Wolfovna Zagernick. 193 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 1: She lived from nineteen hundred to nine, and she first 194 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: observed this in the nineteen twenties. Um and it basically 195 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,559 Speaker 1: boils down to this. It's the it's the ecological tendency 196 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: for us to remember incomplete or interrupted tasks better than 197 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: complete ones. Um and Tetris. Of course, to tie that 198 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: in is a continuous stream of incomplete tasks, a constant 199 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: sense of achievement, but also a constantly unachieved finish. As 200 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: we mentioned in the previous episode, there's no hey, you 201 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: won screen and Tetris. It just keeps getting harder and 202 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: harder and harder until you perish. And of course it's 203 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: made up of lots of little individual incomplete tasks, right 204 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: because every time there's a gap in a row in Tetris, 205 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: that's a little thing that there's a little flag in 206 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: your brain that says I need to go back and 207 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: fix that, and I'll get there eventually. So it's a 208 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: one huge incomplete task forever being incomplete, made up of 209 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: an infinite number of incomplete tasks. Uh. It's almost as 210 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: if this was in mind when it was designed. So 211 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: there's a gronic effect of course, plays into the typical 212 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: human drive to finish. What we started to see things 213 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: through to the finish, and the associative associated negative psychological 214 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: univocations of doing the opposite. You know, where you're you're 215 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: haunted by that model airplane you never finished, or that 216 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: novel that you have have completed, or you know, or 217 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: whatever chores around the house are, and god knows, when 218 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: you have a house, there's always some something that's not 219 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: quite finished about everything, and how those just continue to 220 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: stick in your mind? Um, there's a one explanation of 221 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: the Zigarnic effect that I found that I thought was pretty, uh, 222 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: pretty nice comes from Roy Baumbinster and Brad Bushman in 223 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: their two thousand eight textbooks Social Psychology and Human Nature. 224 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: They said, the Zigaronic effect is a tendency to experience automatic, 225 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: intrusive thoughts about a goal that one has pursued, but 226 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: the pursuit of which has been interrupted. That is, if 227 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 1: you start working toward a goal and fail to get their, 228 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: thoughts about that goal will keep popping into your mind 229 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: while you're doing other things, as if to remind you 230 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: to get back on track and finish reaching that goal. 231 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: So not only is this something that uh is related 232 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: to the motivation we have to keep playing Tetris, but 233 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: it also might sort of explain what we talked about 234 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: in the previous episode. Because this mentions intrusive thoughts. I'll 235 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: see incomplete task. So in the last episode we talked 236 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: about the Tetris effect, where people experience dreams and hallucinations 237 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: about Tetris. If Tetris is never finished yet, it's always 238 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: this intrinsically motivating task that remains incomplete in the mind. 239 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: It kind of makes sense through this method that it 240 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: would keep jumping up into into your thoughts. Yeah. Yeah, 241 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: I think it plays nicely into into just trying to 242 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: figure out Tetris syndrome, the Tetris effect in general. And 243 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: then there's a broader lesson here though, that applies well 244 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: beyond games, and that is that students, be it a you, 245 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: be you an official student, or just somebody studying up 246 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: on something in your life, Uh, it pays to suspend 247 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: your studies, to take a break, to come back to 248 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: it and not try to wipe it all out in 249 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: one massive cramming session. Absolutely. I find this to be 250 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: extremely useful in my own work. So if I'm trying 251 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: to uh to think clearly about maybe an episode I'm 252 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: researching or something like that, I find it's way more 253 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: useful to uh to start on it before I end 254 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: work for one day. So if it's you know, five 255 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: thirty and I'm trying to quit work for the day. Um, 256 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: and I'm at the end of one task, it's better 257 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: to do ten percent of the next task and then 258 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: come back to it the next day. My thoughts about 259 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: it are going to be a lot clearer than to 260 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: break from work in between when tasks are concluded and 261 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: when the next one starts. Yeah, and generally, also if 262 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: you have some sleep in between, then you're you're geting 263 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: to consolidate those memories. All that working is working in 264 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: your favor as well. But also it's pointed out a 265 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 1: lot that if if the task is intimidating, just start it, 266 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: because if you just started, then you get to benefit 267 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: from the Zigarnic effect, because that's effect is going to 268 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: be in play to encourage you to come back and 269 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: work more on it. So beginnings are difficult, but begin 270 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: and then take a break and then come back. Yeah, 271 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: this isn't gonna become the self help show, but but 272 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: try that one at least. Yeah, I highly advocate that strategy. 273 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: Get it started, it'll be easier. Another thing that is, Um, 274 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: I can't remember exactly where I came across this, but 275 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: I feel like it was in Uh, it was in 276 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: something that was linked to from that Braincraft video. But 277 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: but anyway, however, I came across this. Another thing that 278 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: I saw referenced UH with regard to Tetris is the 279 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: idea of epistemic action. And I had actually never heard 280 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: about this phenomena before, but I it turned out to 281 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: be pretty interesting. So in David Kirsch and Paul Maglio 282 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: published a paper in Cognitive Science. It's called on Distinguishing 283 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: Epistemic and Pragmatic Action, and Kirshi and Maglio make the 284 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: distinction between two different kinds of actions that a person 285 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 1: can perform. So you've got pragmatic action, and this is one. 286 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: It's an external action that changes something in the external 287 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 1: world in furtherance of you achieving a goal. So if 288 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: you are stranded on a tiny island and starving, throwing 289 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 1: a rock at a seagull would be a pragmatic action 290 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: to unlock that seagull's delicious meat. Or you could make 291 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 1: a much smaller action. You could say, press a button 292 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: while playing Tetris to move a Tetris piece with the 293 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: goal of actually moving it to the spot where you 294 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 1: want to place it. You're just doing an action to 295 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: reach a goal. But then they distinguish this from a 296 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: different kind of action, a different kind of external action, 297 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,919 Speaker 1: which is what they call epistemic action, and this is 298 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 1: making a change to the world in order to simplify 299 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: a problem solving task. So imagine you remember those Spot 300 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: the Difference puzzles and children's books, you know what I'm 301 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:08,919 Speaker 1: talking about. They'll show you two pictures of a scene. 302 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: One's Mickey Mouse, you know, roller skating, and the next 303 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: one's Mickey Mouse roller skating, but the clock hands are 304 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: pointing to a different time and something like that. And 305 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: let's say you've got a children's workbook with with two 306 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: of these on different pages. Um, and what you do 307 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: is you tear out one of the pages and then 308 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: hold the pictures right next to each other. That would 309 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: be an epistemic action, because they're what you're doing is 310 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: an action that is really designed to change the nature 311 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 1: of a problem inside your head, to simplify the task. 312 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: So when you see them next to each other, or 313 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: maybe you um lay them on top of each other 314 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 1: and hold it up to a light to see what's 315 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:53,199 Speaker 1: different in the two pages, you're using external action to 316 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: reduce the mental complexity of a task. And they looked 317 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 1: at Tetris in this paper actually and pointed out how 318 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: experience Tetris players use epistemic action in Tetris, and this 319 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: is the way it works. You've got a block falling 320 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: down and you want to fit it in, and instead 321 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: of doing all the work of flipping the block around 322 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: in your head to see where it would fit, the 323 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: players flip it. They physically flip it, plus press the 324 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 1: button to flip it to offload some of the cognitive 325 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 1: work required to see where it would fit. So by 326 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 1: visually seeing exactly what the block looks like in all 327 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: its orientations, you can see, okay, here's exactly where it 328 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: would fit without having to flip it in your mind, 329 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: thus freeing up some mental resources to look at what's 330 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 1: the next block in the in the preview bar. So 331 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: so essentially it is using physical action to make mental 332 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 1: work easier. They say, epistemic action can be used to 333 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: reduce the memory involved in a mental computation UH, it 334 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: can be used to reduce the number of steps involved 335 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: in completing a mental computation, or it can be used 336 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: to reduce the probability of error in a mental computation. UM. 337 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: And so if you follow this idea, you can conclude 338 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: that when you play Tetris, it's again kind of a 339 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: perfect back and forth between body and mind. It creates 340 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: a constant, flowing, rapid feedback cooperation between mental problem solving 341 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: and then this external epistemic action. You use the body 342 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: to simple simplify a problem, You press the button, flip 343 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: the block, see where it would fit. Then you use 344 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: your mind to solve the problem. Then you use the 345 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: body again to execute the solution, and you just keep 346 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: going back and forth on repeat. Alright, so once again 347 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: we see a manner in which Tetris illuminates how our 348 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: brain works. And we've discussed they just almost perfect way 349 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: that Tetris captures our mind. So we're gonna take a 350 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: quick break, and when we come back, we're gonna explore 351 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: some some of the applications that that scientists have have explored, 352 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: have actually looked into, and some some very real possibilities 353 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:17,239 Speaker 1: for Tetris as a as a treatment option for a 354 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: few different ailments. All Right, we're back. Okay, So Robert, 355 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: we've talked about the Tetris cure. What can you cure 356 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 1: with tetris? Potentially at least because I was quite surprised 357 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: to see some of this research, but once I read 358 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: into it, it started to make a lot of sense 359 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: to me that you could potentially use tetris in maybe 360 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,679 Speaker 1: in place of drugs or other types of therapies and 361 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: lots of scenarios. Yeah, because we've again just think back 362 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: to all the ways we've discussed in which tetris cat 363 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: is your mind, how it plays into two different modes 364 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: of memory. Um, how it Uh, it's got the skeleton 365 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: key to a deep part of your brain. Yeah, it's 366 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 1: it's involved in flow state. It really reminds me of 367 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: a lot of what one is setting to do a 368 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: set out to do with meditation and yoga to to 369 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: a certain extent, except you kind of have a leg 370 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: up on it by it being this fun, engaging game 371 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: as opposed to, uh, to something that takes a little 372 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 1: more deliberate mental or physical force. Okay, so let's imagine 373 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: that I am two packs a day kind of guy 374 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: and I'm trying to quit smoking. Can tetris help me? Potentially? Yes? 375 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: And which sounds crazy, especially anyone who has firsthand experience 376 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:48,239 Speaker 1: with just how um, how powerful um that addiction can be. 377 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 1: But we do have some evidence to back it up. 378 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,479 Speaker 1: This is a new study. This came out August two 379 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 1: thousand fifteen, and it's from a team of psychologists from 380 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: from Plymouth University and Queensland University of Technology in Australia. 381 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: So this is how it how it went down. Uh, 382 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 1: they got together thirty one participants ages eighteen through seven, 383 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: and they were monitored for levels of craving and also 384 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 1: prompted seven times a day to report their cravings. Fifteen 385 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: of these individuals, so roughly half, were required to play 386 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: three minutes of Tetris before reporting their craving levels. So 387 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: it's kind of like you you have problems with different 388 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 1: cravings for different things, and somebody's gonna call you and 389 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: ask how you're doing with those cravings, but half of 390 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 1: the group get to play Tetris first before they're quiz. 391 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: Done it. So, cravings were recorded in thirty percent of occasions, 392 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 1: most commonly for food and non alcoholic drinks, which were 393 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: reported on nearly two thirds of those occasions. So of 394 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: the cravings were for drug related instances, and these included coffee, cigarettes, 395 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,479 Speaker 1: wine and beer and spice, Yeah and spice. Sixteen percent 396 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,959 Speaker 1: were for miscellaneous activities such as sleeping, playing video games 397 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: to which I found interesting, socializing with friends, and sexual intercourse. 398 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: Food cravings tended to be slightly weaker than those in 399 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: other categories, But they claimed this is the first demonstration 400 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: that cognitive interference. Again, that's Tetris coming into your life, 401 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:22,400 Speaker 1: captivating your brain, shutting out everything else. Cognitive interference can 402 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: be used outside the lab to reduce cravings for substances 403 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: and activities other than eating. So in this we can 404 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 1: see how Tetris or some variation of Tetris, some variation 405 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: of a you know, of a puzzle solving game, could 406 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 1: be used as a support tool for curving addictions, not 407 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: not the again, not the primary tool, but but an 408 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: additional tool. So I'm sure that they didn't find that 409 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,199 Speaker 1: that it would completely eliminate cravings, But did they have 410 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: an estimate for by how much the cravings were reduced? Yeah, 411 00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 1: by approximately one fifth. So I mean that that's you 412 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: could look at that as small, or you could look 413 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: at that as big. I mean, if if all it 414 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,479 Speaker 1: takes is Tetris and you don't have to you know, uh, 415 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,880 Speaker 1: this is without some other kind of like drug interference 416 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: or major behavioral therapy or anything. Yeah, I mean, you're 417 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 1: trying to curb this addiction, so any tool at your 418 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: disposal that that put gives you an advantage is certainly 419 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: worth taking up. So yeah, I could see this being 420 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 1: again a part of one's treatment. Certainly not the only 421 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 1: part of one's treatment, but it could help. It could 422 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: certainly help. Yeah, I wonder the extent to which Tetris 423 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 1: is special here, like, how would this compare to other 424 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: video games? I feel like Tetris is kind of special 425 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,439 Speaker 1: because we haven't feel the same way, Robert, because we 426 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: haven't really touched on this as much. This is something 427 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: I find in gaming in general these days, especially um 428 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: with a three and a half year old running around 429 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: in my life, is that blessed is the game that 430 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: can be enjoyed in very small allotments of time. Yes, true, 431 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 1: which Tetrisses is perfect for that. It is one of them. 432 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: I just the other day, when we were preparing for 433 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 1: this episode, we was doing some research. I decided to 434 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: play a little bit of Tetris, and I several different times, 435 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: I played for maybe three to five minutes, and oh man, 436 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 1: that was a session. You can't have a three to 437 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: five minute session of I don't know what do people 438 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: play these days of Fallout four? Yeah, these are games 439 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 1: that require vast periods of time, vast immersive periods of 440 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: time where there's always time for Tetris, and and it's 441 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: never a situation where I can't play Tetris now this 442 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: environment is too distracting. No, you can play Tetris in 443 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: a war zone, which is kind of insightful given the 444 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: next thing we're going to discuss. Yeah, because I think 445 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: it is time to talk about tetris and traumatic memory formation. 446 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: So a lot of people probably know this, but it's 447 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,159 Speaker 1: worth explaining a little bit. Sometimes when people have a 448 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: traumatic experience, they can form a kind of recurrent toxic 449 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: memory pattern that can cause serious trouble for them after 450 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: the traumatic incident is over and done with. So you 451 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: mentioned a combat zone. Yeah, imagine you're in a combat zone, 452 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 1: whether you are a soldier or just a bystand or whatever. 453 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 1: You're at a place where people are fighting and there's 454 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: a sudden eruption of gunfire and that leads to intense 455 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: fear maybe maybe two personal injury, to the threat on 456 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 1: your life, to witnessing the death or injury of others. 457 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,199 Speaker 1: And this can lead to post traumatic stress disorder or PTSD. 458 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: One of the main symptoms of PTSD is the presence 459 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 1: of what are known as flashbacks, or these distressing, intrusive 460 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: memories of the traumatic experience that come rushing into your 461 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: mind like an irresistible torrent and can have debilitating effects. 462 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,479 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously you don't want to be, you know, 463 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: driving the kids to school and suddenly just utterly possessed 464 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: by memories of the time when somebody shot you in 465 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 1: the shoulder. I mean, it's the one of the worst 466 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: moments of your life is suddenly just popping up in 467 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: your day and in the course of your daily life 468 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 1: during what should be the best moments of your life 469 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: at times. Right, So, there has been a lot of 470 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: research into ways of treating PTSD and people who already 471 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,679 Speaker 1: have it. So some treatment courses involve cognitive therapy, you 472 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: know that's gonna be talk therapy, or exposure therapy exposing 473 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 1: yourself to the problem. Some include drugs like anti anxiety 474 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,479 Speaker 1: medications or antidepressants, and there are even some kind of 475 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: weird and controversial therapies that have been suggested, like have 476 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,479 Speaker 1: you ever read anything about eye a movement, desensitization and 477 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: reprocessing or e M D R. No. I don't think 478 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: I've run across this one yet. This is where you 479 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: expose yourself to the traumatic memory, and while you're doing that, 480 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: you practice specific patterns of eye a movement in conjunction 481 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 1: with the anxiety inducing thoughts. This is a side note. 482 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: I find this last one really fascinating, and I would 483 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: love to hear from listeners who are psychiatrists or or 484 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: from people who have practiced this method personally. I don't know, 485 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: do y'all think there's validity to it. I've read what 486 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: seemed to be credible scientists saying that there is empirical 487 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: research to show that this works, but I've also read 488 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: that it's controversial. It sounds like one of those weird 489 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: scientific discoveries that might be too good to be true, 490 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: like you can really have an effect just by moving 491 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 1: your eyeballs around. Remind there are some yogurt meditation techniques 492 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: that involved the movement of your eyes and uh, I 493 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: haven't played around with them a lot, but it's it's 494 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: certainly present there, So I wonder if there's some connective 495 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,959 Speaker 1: tissue between the two. Yeah. Well, anyway, that's interesting by itself, 496 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: and i'd love to hear from listeners about it. But 497 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: anyway back to the to the tetris um, what if 498 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: there were a way to all those things I mentioned 499 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: before were if you already have PTSD, you've already got 500 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: this traumatic flashback problem. But what if there were a 501 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: way to inoculate yourself against PTSD before the symptoms begin 502 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: to take hold. So this the idea here is that 503 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: something traumatic has occurred, what can I do to keep 504 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: from to keep that trauma from taking root in my brain? Yeah? 505 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: I'd be like if you get bit by a dog 506 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: with rabies and you immediately go to the hospital for 507 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: rabies vaccine. You get bit by a zombie and you 508 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: get somebody to cut your arm off. Yeah, So this 509 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: would be a cognitive vaccine against traumatic memories. So in 510 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: January two thou nine researchers led by Dr Emily A. 511 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: Holmes of Oxford University, they published a study on the 512 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: effects of Tetris on the formation of traumatic or intrusive 513 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: memories and it's called ken. Playing the computer game Tetris 514 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: reduced the build up of flashbacks for trauma, a proposal 515 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: from cognitive science. So they had two pieces of knowledge 516 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: that they were starting with. One of them was cognitive 517 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: science suggests that the brain has selective resources with limited capacity, 518 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: so your brain can't do everything that you can only 519 00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: devote so much energy resource to to a limited number 520 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: of things at a time. And the second fact is 521 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: the neurobiology of memory suggests a six hour window to 522 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: disrupt memory consolidation. So that you know that there's this 523 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: idea that about six hours after a memory takes places, 524 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: when the window for consolidating that memory in the brain is, 525 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: you know, forming that strong recurrent pattern memory. So if 526 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: you deny the brain the resources it needs to form 527 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: visuospatial memories during that crucial few hours after the event 528 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: takes place, could you stop bad memories from consolidating with 529 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: such great emphasis in the mind. And they tested it. 530 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 1: They tested it out by getting forty volunteers and making 531 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: them watch Faces of Death. Act. Well, I don't know. 532 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: Actually they didn't say the name of the tape because 533 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: I remember covering this study like way back in the 534 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: early like the initial version of this podcast episode with 535 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: Alison Lowdermilk, and I don't remember Faces of Death, but 536 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: then maybe I overlooked it. No, no, no, it was 537 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: it was something like that they were they were showed 538 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: a film. Uh shown a film full of horrible images 539 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: designed to simulate a traumatic experience. Quote. All participants viewed 540 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: a traumatic film consisting of scenes of real injury and death, 541 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: followed by a thirty minute structured break. They described the 542 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: film as a twelve minute film that contained eleven clips 543 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: of traumatic content, including graphic real scenes of human surgery, 544 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: fatal road traffic accidents, and drowning. So that was disturbing 545 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: student film, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, they were all made 546 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: to watch that tape from the ring. So after viewing 547 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: the film and taking a real nice thirty minute break, 548 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: half of the participants half of these forty people were 549 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: given nothing to do except sit quietly for ten minutes. 550 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: This was a control group, and the other half played 551 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: Tetris for ten minutes. Pretty simple experiment. Um. Then they 552 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: checked to see how often members of each group experience 553 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: flashbacks during the ten minutes. No surprise, the people playing 554 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: Tetris experience fewer flashbacks. But that's not really surprising they 555 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: were playing Tetris. Then, here's where it gets interesting. The 556 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: researchers sent the volunteers away with instructions to keep a 557 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: diary on how many times they had flashbacks to to 558 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: to the Faces of Death basically over the next week, 559 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: and the different groups had different rates. They found that 560 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 1: the people who played Tetris for ten minutes after watching 561 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: the film had significantly fewer flashbacks to the Faces of 562 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: Death type video and less symptomology consistent with PTSD when 563 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: they checked back seven days later. Crucially, both groups had 564 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: equivalently strong voluntary recall of the film. And this is 565 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: an interesting aspect too, because they could both remember the 566 00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 1: film fine, they could remember what they saw. Uh, it's 567 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: just that the group that played Tetris had less trouble 568 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: with the unbidden recurrence of these memories throughout their day 569 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: to day lives. So so again, it's not it's not 570 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: just a matter of hey, Tetris distracted them from initially 571 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:20,919 Speaker 1: thinking about it, but Tetris interfered with the brains codifying 572 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 1: of the experience as a traumatic. Yeah, And they concluded 573 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: from this that it's not just distraction like you say, 574 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 1: it's something about the visuospatial nature of Tetris. This is 575 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: something that they call out specifically that Tetris is of 576 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: visual and spatial or visuospatial task because verbal and other 577 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: distracting tasks have been demonstrated ineffective before against trauma flashbacks. 578 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: In some cases they even intensify them. So in this 579 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,839 Speaker 1: first study, one of the things they wanted to point 580 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 1: out that they were not saying people who already of 581 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,760 Speaker 1: PTSD can get better by playing Tetris, though they speculate 582 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 1: this could be a possibility, and this gets revisited in 583 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: a later study. And they were also not suggesting that 584 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: playing any video game would have the same effect, and 585 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: they get into that in another experiment in a bit, 586 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: but just a couple of comments. One of the things 587 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: is it's hard to test something like the formation of 588 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 1: traumatic memories leading to PTSD because for obvious ethical reasons, 589 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 1: you can't expose somebody to life shattering trauma for the 590 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 1: sake of the experiment. So the best they could do 591 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: was show somebody a really disturbing movie. And even that 592 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: seems kind of weird. I mean when you read the like, yes, 593 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: they were showed the graphic images of death, and then 594 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 1: we asked them how troubled they were. Now you could 595 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: imagine a scenario where they are trauma metic rushes out 596 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 1: begins treating the individual who is is down on the 597 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 1: ground with that and is wounded, and then passing out 598 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 1: game boys exactly those soldiers in their nets. Yeah, that's 599 00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: the other half. It seems impractical to seek out people 600 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,439 Speaker 1: who have just been shot or hit by a car 601 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:08,720 Speaker 1: or something and then give them Tetris. But these findings 602 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 1: have been followed up on in subsequent studies. So the 603 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,280 Speaker 1: same group did another study in two thousand ten where 604 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 1: they they attempted to answer the questions would all games 605 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 1: have this effect via distraction or enjoyment or might some 606 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:27,320 Speaker 1: games even be harmful? And then second, would the effects 607 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: be found if administered several hours post trauma? Because this 608 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: first one it was just Tetris, and they played thirty 609 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: minutes after they saw the movie, so they essentially repeated 610 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: the experiment, but instead of just Tetris, they tried Tetris 611 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 1: and then this game called pub Quiz Machine two thousand eight. Um, 612 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: And yeah, I looked at a video of somebody merely 613 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,799 Speaker 1: playing pub Quiz two thousand eight pub Quiz Machine two 614 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 1: thousand eight on YouTube, and I think that alone could 615 00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: cause traumatic memories. But but anyway, they had those too, 616 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 1: and they concluded that no, the pub Quiz did not 617 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 1: do as well as Tetris. In fact, they found that 618 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,760 Speaker 1: the pub quiz made the traumatic experience flashbacks more intense. 619 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: So if you if you have a traumatic experience and 620 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: then play pub quiz, it's going to be even worse 621 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,799 Speaker 1: for you. Don't do that. But Tetris still performed better. 622 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,320 Speaker 1: And they also found that even four hours after watching 623 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: the film, Tetris had significant reduction in flashback because window. Yeah, 624 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 1: so you can wait four hours after the event play 625 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: some Tetris and supposedly this discourages flashbacks. Just another reason 626 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: to make sure Tetris is on your phone just in case. Now, again, 627 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:45,239 Speaker 1: I wonder about Tetris versus non verbal visual games. So 628 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,279 Speaker 1: if you're playing Metroid or Shack Foo or something like it, 629 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 1: does does the game have to provide a certain level 630 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: of challenge? Is there a difference between the effects on 631 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,800 Speaker 1: experience Tetris players and on novices. So there are a 632 00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,080 Speaker 1: lot of questions that haven't been answered yet. Um. But 633 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 1: then there was another study from this year and this 634 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,920 Speaker 1: is the last one in psychological science, in a group 635 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: of researchers, again including Dr Emily A. Holmes, who was 636 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 1: on the other studies, published findings that visual spatial game 637 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,719 Speaker 1: tasks can block traumatic memories even after the memories are 638 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 1: already formed. So remember earlier, I was like, well, they 639 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: weren't saying that you can cure PTSD or not cure, 640 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 1: but but help or alleviate some aspects of PTSD just 641 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: by playing tetris after it's already formed. Here they found 642 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: maybe you can do that. And because what they did 643 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 1: is they had people after the memory formation had already 644 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:44,279 Speaker 1: taken place, recall the memories, so bring up voluntarily in 645 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,880 Speaker 1: the mind the traumatic memories and then play Tetris, and 646 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:52,399 Speaker 1: they found that this also reduced flashbacks. Well that that 647 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,360 Speaker 1: makes sense given the nature of memories. The example I 648 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 1: always bring up when we discussed this is that that 649 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,360 Speaker 1: every memory in your head is not a little stone 650 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 1: statue of the event, but a clay statue of the event. 651 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 1: And it's it's it's something that it can be, it's valuable, 652 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 1: it can be changed, it can be altered every time 653 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 1: you draw it out there. And also when you draw 654 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 1: it out it is susceptible, uh, to positive change if 655 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: it's traumatic. Um, So that would make sense. Yeah, So 656 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 1: in all of these studies they chalk this up to 657 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: competition for resources in in visual visuospatial uh conception in 658 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,760 Speaker 1: the brain. Essentially that they're saying that the disturbing images 659 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: that come in your flashbacks when you're you know, remembering 660 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,319 Speaker 1: that you got shot or hit by a car, you know, 661 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 1: threatened by a guy with a chainsaw or something whatever 662 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 1: that is, that's terrifying you. It's essentially a visual spatial 663 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: problem in your brain. And if you can if you 664 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 1: can dampen that, if you can just kind of uh 665 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 1: smudge that memory with competition by the part of your 666 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,000 Speaker 1: brain that you used to solve Tetris puzzles, you signal 667 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,920 Speaker 1: effiicantly weakened the hold it has over you. So anyway, 668 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 1: I would love to see more research in that area, 669 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,960 Speaker 1: and it seems very interesting and hopefully promising. I mean, 670 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 1: if people can get relief from this, I I think 671 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,279 Speaker 1: that's a wonderful thing. Yeah, totally. So we have one 672 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 1: more area of potential tetris treatment to discuss here, and 673 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 1: it concerns uh something that's commonly referred to as lazy I. 674 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 1: We're talking about amblyopia here. It's a disorder of sight 675 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,000 Speaker 1: and it results in decreased vision in an eye that 676 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:38,320 Speaker 1: otherwise appears normal. Or out of proportion to associated structural 677 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,680 Speaker 1: problems with the eye. So up to three percent of 678 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 1: the population suffers from amblyopia and it's a It's ultimately 679 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,759 Speaker 1: caused by poor processing in the brain, which results in 680 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 1: the suppression of the weaker eye by the stronger eye. Huh. 681 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,240 Speaker 1: Now that the common method of treating this has always 682 00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,759 Speaker 1: been patching, So you wear an eye patch over the 683 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: a I um and uh and and eventually brings things 684 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:09,200 Speaker 1: back back to order. But um, this is this is 685 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:12,200 Speaker 1: generally more helpful with younger cases and not with older 686 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:17,480 Speaker 1: individuals who are suffering from lazy eye. So two thousand thirteen, 687 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 1: a research team led by Dr Robert Hess from mcgel 688 00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,720 Speaker 1: University and the Research Institute of the mcgel University Health 689 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:28,719 Speaker 1: Center looked in to possible use of tetris as a 690 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:34,399 Speaker 1: means of treating uh individuals are suffering from the yeah 691 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:39,200 Speaker 1: once more so, they they found that by distributing information 692 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:43,520 Speaker 1: between the two eyes in a complimentary fashion, catris trains 693 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 1: both eyes to work together, which is which again is 694 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,040 Speaker 1: countered to previous treatments such as patching, So you're forcing 695 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,959 Speaker 1: both eyes to cooperate, which increases the level of plasticity 696 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 1: in the brain and allows UH the the the individual's 697 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:03,240 Speaker 1: brain to relearn, essentially relearn how to look at something 698 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:07,399 Speaker 1: and take individual data. So they did this by using 699 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,720 Speaker 1: a head mounted video goggles. They displayed the game dicoptically, 700 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,120 Speaker 1: so one I was allowed to see only the following 701 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: objects and the other eye was allowed to see only 702 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,480 Speaker 1: ground plane objects. So this forced the two eyes to 703 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:21,960 Speaker 1: work together, so you have to be they have two 704 00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 1: eyes have to be working together to get the full image. Wait, 705 00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:27,640 Speaker 1: which I could see the preview box where they're playing 706 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:29,719 Speaker 1: without the preview box. Maybe they were playing without the 707 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: preview box. See this is this is really crazy because 708 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 1: in that documentary about Tetris I mentioned in the UH 709 00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,920 Speaker 1: in the other episode, it's called the Ecstasy of Order. Again, 710 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 1: I really liked it, so I recommended. There's a Tetris 711 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,680 Speaker 1: champion in their name, Jonas Newbauer, And at one point 712 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:52,080 Speaker 1: he jokes around by demonstrating his secret weapon, and it's 713 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 1: pointing his eyeballs separately in different directions. Presumably I think 714 00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:58,960 Speaker 1: the joke is so that one can watch the falling 715 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,040 Speaker 1: block while the other watches the preview box to tell 716 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,520 Speaker 1: you which block is coming next. I think he's joking, 717 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,719 Speaker 1: but I'm not positive whether he's he actually uses this 718 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:11,960 Speaker 1: while playing or not. Huh yeah, because he would be 719 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,359 Speaker 1: he would be doing the direct opposite of the very 720 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,719 Speaker 1: thing about the tatris experience that is being uh utilized 721 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,920 Speaker 1: potentially treat lazy in this case. So uh as as 722 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,160 Speaker 1: far as this particular research goes, clinical trials worse at 723 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:31,000 Speaker 1: least initially scheduled for and the company Ambliotech, purchased the 724 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 1: research findings and licensed it to to you be Soft 725 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:38,279 Speaker 1: for the creation of lazy eye treatment games, specific like 726 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:42,560 Speaker 1: therapy games. Yeah. So Ambliotech is currently seeking permission from 727 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:46,680 Speaker 1: the U S. Food and Drug Administration to market the therapy, 728 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:51,640 Speaker 1: such as their game dig Rush, which is not tetris um. 729 00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,360 Speaker 1: And it looks uh, it looks like it's basically like 730 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,960 Speaker 1: a little digger character that's moving around on a If 731 00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 1: it ain't tetris I don't care. It's certainly less abstract. Yeah. 732 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,279 Speaker 1: But the thing is that it utilizes a tablet and 733 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,560 Speaker 1: three D glasses, so you get that red and blue, 734 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:10,960 Speaker 1: um you know, disconnect and you have to use both 735 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,880 Speaker 1: eyes and concert to see the full picture. Um. So anyway, 736 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:18,880 Speaker 1: they're they're seeking FDA approval for this, according to the 737 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:22,840 Speaker 1: most recent report, which was the March BBC report. And 738 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:24,480 Speaker 1: if you want to learn more about that company and 739 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:26,960 Speaker 1: see some screenshots from their game, you can find them 740 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,239 Speaker 1: at www dot ambliotech dot com. That's a m b 741 00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:34,320 Speaker 1: L y O T e c H. You know, Tetris 742 00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,239 Speaker 1: has been such an interesting subject to do on this 743 00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:41,759 Speaker 1: show because I I still have the intuition I had 744 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,000 Speaker 1: at the very beginning. I still feel like there's an 745 00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 1: ancient secret inside Tetris, or maybe Tetris is the ancient secret, 746 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,239 Speaker 1: And after doing all this research, I don't feel any 747 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,920 Speaker 1: closer to articulating what that that ancient mystery or that 748 00:44:56,000 --> 00:45:00,360 Speaker 1: secret is. What's because the Holy Tetromino stands out side 749 00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:04,040 Speaker 1: of our human world, and in playing Tetris were able 750 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:08,800 Speaker 1: to dip into the deep currents of energy that underlie 751 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:12,000 Speaker 1: our reality. Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to come up with 752 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:16,960 Speaker 1: some kind of astronomical metaphor or or the stars Tetris blocks, 753 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:21,440 Speaker 1: but they're not really unless you start thinking about it. Yeah, 754 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:26,200 Speaker 1: and then there's no Indian thinking about it. Wait a second, 755 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:31,719 Speaker 1: Yeah they are, Yeah, they are. Do you ever notice 756 00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,920 Speaker 1: how the Maria on the moon, the lunar oceans, that 757 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:40,359 Speaker 1: it's all Tetris blocks. Yeah, yeah, I'll buy into it. 758 00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,040 Speaker 1: It sounds good to me. It's a big storm on Jupiter. Yeah, 759 00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:47,359 Speaker 1: just another Tetris block. That's what two by two I think. Ultimately, 760 00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:51,440 Speaker 1: it is a very fast, swirling Z shaped block. So 761 00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,520 Speaker 1: it's it's a storm because it's the troubling Z shaped block. 762 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:59,680 Speaker 1: Those blocks are the devil. All right. Well, we know 763 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,640 Speaker 1: that this is a topic that resonates with a lot 764 00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,480 Speaker 1: of people out there because Tetris is just something that's 765 00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,600 Speaker 1: unavoidable in our culture. At this point, everybody's seen it 766 00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,319 Speaker 1: or played it. You have varying levels of experience with it, 767 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:13,719 Speaker 1: but chances are you had at least a little bit 768 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,439 Speaker 1: of time that you're addicted to it. Yeah. So if 769 00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,719 Speaker 1: you know the ancient secret of Tetris and you understand 770 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,799 Speaker 1: why it is the strongest potion in the in the 771 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:27,640 Speaker 1: Digital Sorcerer's potion bag, you should let us know. That's right. 772 00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:29,359 Speaker 1: You can find is that stuff to blow your mind? 773 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:31,879 Speaker 1: Dot com that is our mothership. That's what we'll find 774 00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,359 Speaker 1: all the podcast episodes. You'll find videos, you'll find blog posts, 775 00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,320 Speaker 1: you'll find a link out to our social media accounts 776 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,200 Speaker 1: such as Twitter and Facebook. We're blow the Mind on 777 00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:41,920 Speaker 1: both of those, and we are stuff to blow your 778 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,080 Speaker 1: mind on Tumbler. And if you want to get to 779 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,200 Speaker 1: us with your personal Tetris stories or any feedback on 780 00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,920 Speaker 1: the show or your thoughts about the cognitive science of 781 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,600 Speaker 1: gaming and Tetris, you can email us and blow the 782 00:46:52,640 --> 00:47:05,239 Speaker 1: Mind and how Stuff Works for more on this and 783 00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:17,400 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff Works? Dot com, 784 00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:23,080 Speaker 1: Big Think, Remember Stott