1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM paranormal 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: podcast network. No, I'll get ready for another episode of 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: Shades of the Afterlife with Sandra Champlain. 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 2: The thoughts and opinions expressed by the host are thoughts 5 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 2: and opinions only and do not necessarily reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, 6 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 2: Coast to Coast AM, employees of Premiere Networks, or their 7 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 2: sponsors and associates. You are encouraged to do the proper 8 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 2: amount of research yourself, depending on the subject matter and 9 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 2: your needs. 10 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 3: Hi. 11 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 4: I'm Sandra Champlain. For over twenty five years, I've been 12 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 4: on a journey to prove the existence of life after death. 13 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 4: On each episode, we'll discuss the reasons we now know 14 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 4: that our loved ones have survived physical death, and so 15 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 4: will we Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. We get 16 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 4: to a certain age, my friend and I think each 17 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 4: one of us is familiar with the five stages related 18 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 4: to death and related to grief. Those five stages are denial, anger, depression, bargaining, 19 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 4: and acceptance. As we delve into it a little more, 20 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 4: we find that those stages don't happen in order, and 21 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 4: often there are other things involved, like shock and guilt, 22 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 4: and with grief, it's that feeling of not wanting to 23 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 4: go on. These five stages have been mainstream for years, 24 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 4: but who created them, and more importantly, did the creator 25 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 4: believe in life after death? The good news is doctor 26 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 4: Elizabeth Koubler Ross is our pioneer that we're going to 27 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 4: explore today. Let me tell you about her. She was 28 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 4: born July eighth, nineteen twenty six and passed August twenty fourth, 29 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 4: two thousand and four. Elizabeth Kobler Ross was a Swiss 30 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 4: born psychiatrist who worked with terminally ill patients. In nineteen 31 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 4: sixty nine, she authored a book called On Death and Dying, 32 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 4: in which she first discussed these five stages and not 33 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 4: just for dying, but for grief or any kind of 34 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 4: loss again, denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. She found 35 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 4: that people experience most of these stages, although in no 36 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:44,119 Speaker 4: particular order, after being faced with the reality of their 37 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 4: impending death. Elizabeth also taught over one hundred and twenty 38 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:54,239 Speaker 4: five thousand students about death and dying and was greatly 39 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 4: involved with the formation of hospice and palliative care for 40 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 4: the terminally ill. She worked a lifetime with the terminal 41 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:08,679 Speaker 4: ill and she heard enough stories of near death experiences 42 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 4: and visions from patients who saw loved ones just before 43 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 4: they passed, and she started her own investigation into the afterlife. 44 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 4: Although she was previously a skeptic on life after death, 45 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:28,079 Speaker 4: she researched more than twenty thousand people who had near 46 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 4: death experiences. She herself had a near death experience. She's 47 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 4: authored many books on life, on death, on life after death. 48 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 4: Convinced of our continual existence after physical death, she has 49 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 4: written many many books books like on Death and Dying, 50 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 4: On Grief and Grieving, on Life after Death, Questions and 51 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 4: Answers about death and Dying, The Tunnel and the Light, 52 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 4: on Children and Death, to Live until we Say Goodbye, 53 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 4: The Meaning of Suffering, The Cocoon and the Butterfly, and 54 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 4: many more. While we're together today, we're going to explore 55 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 4: some of the work of this amazing woman. I'll also 56 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 4: be reading some excerpts from some of her books and 57 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 4: telling you more about her and her life. Before we 58 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 4: go too far, I just want to play a minute 59 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 4: sound clip so that you can hear the voice of 60 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 4: this beautiful Swiss born pioneer This was recorded in nineteen 61 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 4: seventy four, when she was about forty eight years old. 62 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 3: I think a lot of people in the audience have 63 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 3: either the tonally illness so have lost the child, or 64 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 3: in the process of this being forced to face the issue. 65 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 3: I when you're healthy and everything goes well, No that 66 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 3: he wants to think about it, she said, kill us. 67 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 3: You see, if you live wollye and little to live 68 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 3: without fear and guilt. It doesn't matter whether you live 69 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 3: twenty years or ninety years. And I seem to be 70 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 3: a little from dying patients, not so much about the 71 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 3: old stuffed the stages of dying that had to live 72 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 3: is out fear and guilt. So the twin this occurs. 73 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 3: It's okay, fear and guilt are the only enemies of man. 74 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 3: If you live to live is out fearsome guilt. You 75 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 3: listen every day is so foody that you feel like 76 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 3: you live a hundred lacks. 77 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 4: I'd like to repeat her words. She says, I think 78 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 4: a lot of people in the audience either have a 79 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 4: terminal illness, or have lost a child, or are in 80 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 4: the process of death being forced to face the issue. 81 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 4: When you're healthy and everything goes well, nobody wants to 82 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 4: think about it, which is ridiculous, because if you live 83 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 4: fully and learn to live without fear and guilt, it 84 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 4: doesn't matter whether you live twenty years or ninety years. 85 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 4: And I I think we have learned from dying patients 86 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 4: not so much about the old stuff, the stages of dying, 87 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 4: but how to live without fear and guilt, so that 88 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 4: when death occurs, it's okay. Fear and guilt are the 89 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 4: only enemies of man. If you can learn to live 90 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 4: without fears and guilt, you live every day so fully 91 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 4: that you feel like you've lived one hundred lives. One 92 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 4: of the things I find fascinating is that clip from 93 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 4: her was in nineteen seventy four, and she refers to 94 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 4: the stages of dying as the old stuff. It was 95 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 4: only five years before that, in nineteen sixty nine did 96 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 4: she publish the book on Death and Dying. In nineteen 97 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 4: seventy four, she was already onto What's next, having researched 98 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 4: these out of body experiences, and around the same time 99 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 4: that doctor Raymond Moody was also studying these extraordinary experiences 100 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 4: and coined the term near death experience. I'd like to 101 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 4: read to you now. A short excerpt that was published 102 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 4: in her book The Tunnel and the Light. It is 103 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 4: interesting to me as a psychiatrist that thousands of people 104 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 4: all around the globe should share the same hallucinations prior 105 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 4: to death, namely the awareness of some friends or relatives 106 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 4: who preceded them in death. There must be some explanation 107 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 4: for this if it's not real, and so I proceeded 108 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 4: to try to find out means and ways to study this, 109 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 4: to verify this, or perhaps to verify that it is 110 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 4: simply a projection of wishful thinking. The best way, perhaps 111 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 4: to study it is for us to sit with dying 112 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 4: children after family accidents. We usually did this after the 113 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 4: fourth of July weekend, Memorial Days Labor Days, when families 114 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 4: go out together in family cars and all too often 115 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 4: have head on collisions, killing several members of the family 116 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 4: and sending many of the injured survivors to different hospitals. 117 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 4: I have made it a task to sit with the 118 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 4: critically injured children, since they are my specialty. As is 119 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 4: usually the case, they have not been told which of 120 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 4: their family members were killed in the same accident. I 121 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 4: was always impressed that they were invariably aware of who 122 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 4: had preceded them in death. Anyway, I sit with them, 123 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:50,719 Speaker 4: watch them silently, perhaps hold their hand, watch their restlessness, 124 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:55,559 Speaker 4: and then often shortly prior to death, a peaceful serenity 125 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 4: comes over them. That is always an ominous sign, and 126 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 4: that is the most moment when I communicate with them, 127 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:06,079 Speaker 4: and I don't give them any ideas. I simply ask 128 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 4: if they are willing and able to share with me 129 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 4: what they experience. They share in very similar words. One 130 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 4: child said to me, everything is all right now, Mommy 131 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 4: and Peter are already waiting for me. I was aware 132 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 4: in this particular case that the mother had been killed 133 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 4: immediately at the scene of the accident. But I also 134 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 4: knew that Peter had gone to a burn unit in 135 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 4: a different hospital, and that he, as far as I knew, 136 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 4: was still alive. I didn't give it a second thought, 137 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 4: but as I walked out of the intensive care unit 138 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,439 Speaker 4: by the nursing station, I had a telephone call from 139 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 4: the hospital where Peter was. The nurse at the other 140 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 4: end of the line said, doctor Ross, we just wanted 141 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 4: you to know that Peter died ten minutes ago. The 142 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 4: only mistake I made was to say, yes, I know, 143 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 4: the nurse must have thought I was a little cuckoo. 144 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 4: In thirteen years of studying children near death, I have 145 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 4: never had one child who has made a single mistake 146 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 4: when it came to identifying in this way family members 147 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 4: who have preceded them in death. I'm so grateful for 148 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 4: all of the research that doctor Elizabeth Koopler Ross has done, 149 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 4: but it does break my heart to hear that in 150 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 4: the sixties and early seventies it was the norm to 151 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 4: have so many car accidents on holiday times, and it 152 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 4: was predictable that she would be able to sit by 153 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 4: so many dying children's bedsides. I'm grateful for the time 154 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 4: we are living, but always remember pay attention offensive driving 155 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 4: and seat belts. Here's another shortcase discussing a near death 156 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 4: experience of a blind person. Doctor Ross says, one of 157 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 4: our female patients was blinded in a laboratory explosion, and 158 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 4: the moment she came out of her physical body, she 159 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 4: was again able to see and to describe the whole 160 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 4: accident and the people who dashed into the laboratory. When 161 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 4: she was brought back to life, she was again totally blind. 162 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 4: Do you understand why many many of these people resent 163 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 4: our attempts to artificially bring them back when they are 164 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 4: in a far more gorgeous, more beautiful, and more perfect place. 165 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 4: I know we've discussed that on the show before, that 166 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 4: when people have these near death experiences, most of them 167 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 4: want to stay, not come back. We'll get more into 168 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 4: the life and discoveries of doctor Elizabeth Kobler Ross as 169 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 4: this episode continues, but I thought you'd like to know 170 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 4: there is a website for her found found it is 171 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 4: Ekrfoundation dot org, of course, standing for Elizabeth Koubler Ross. 172 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 4: On the site you can find their nonprofit organization, the 173 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 4: work that continues globally, videos on Elizabeth Pictures, and also 174 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:25,319 Speaker 4: so much grief support. Here's a quick quote by Elizabeth. 175 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 4: I've told my children that when I die, to release 176 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 4: balloons in the sky to celebrate that I graduated. For me, 177 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:38,199 Speaker 4: death is a graduation. It's time for our first break, 178 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 4: and we'll be back with more Elizabeth Koubler Ross. You're 179 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 4: listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and 180 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 4: Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. 181 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 2: Stay there, Sandra will be right back. Hey. 182 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 3: The Coast to Coast on YouTube channel go to Coast 183 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 3: ghosam dot com for more information. 184 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 1: Hey, this is George Nori and you're listening to the 185 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost Dam Paranormal podcast Network. Thanks 186 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: for being here. Now let's get back to more with Sandra. 187 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 4: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain. 188 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:46,959 Speaker 4: In this episode, we are featuring Swiss Borne psychiatrist doctor 189 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 4: Elizabeth Koubler Ross, first known for her groundbreaking work and 190 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 4: exploring the terminal stages of the dying. Here is a 191 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 4: quote I think you will enjoy. Death is simply a 192 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 4: shedding of the physical body, like the butterfly shedding its cocoon. 193 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,439 Speaker 4: It is a transition to a higher state of consciousness 194 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 4: where you continue to perceive, to understand, to laugh, and 195 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 4: to be able to grow. I want to tell you 196 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 4: a little more about her. Born in nineteen twenty six, 197 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 4: Elizabeth Koubler Ross wanted to be a doctor, but her 198 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 4: father forbade it. She left home at sixteen, was a 199 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 4: hospital volunteer in World War Two, and finally entered medical 200 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 4: school in nineteen fifty one. She studied terminal illness, publishing 201 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 4: her groundbreaking book on death and dying in nineteen sixty nine. 202 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 4: The book outlines the five stages that dying patients experience denial, anger, bargaining, depression, 203 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 4: and acceptance. Kubler Ross had a fragile start as an infant. 204 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 4: She was born as a triplet, weighing only two pounds. 205 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 4: Developing an interest in medicine at a very young age, 206 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 4: kubl Ross encountered intense resistance from her father. He told 207 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 4: her that she could be a secretary in his business 208 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 4: or go become a maid. Defying her family, kubl Ross 209 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 4: left home at the age of sixteen and worked a 210 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 4: series of jobs. She also served as a volunteer during 211 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 4: World War II, helping out in hospitals and caring for refugees. 212 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 4: After the war, she volunteered to help in numerous war 213 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 4: torn communities. She was profoundly affected by a visit to 214 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 4: a concentration camp in Poland and the images of hundreds 215 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 4: of butterflies carved into the walls there to kubl Ross 216 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 4: the butterflies, These final works of art by those facing 217 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 4: death stayed with her for years and influenced her thinking 218 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 4: about the end of life. Kub l Ross began pursuing 219 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 4: her dreams to become a doctor in nineteen fifty one 220 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 4: as a medical student at the University of Zurich. While there, 221 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 4: she met Emmanuel Robert Ross, an American medical student. They 222 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 4: married in nineteen fifty eight, a year after she graduated, 223 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 4: and moved to the United States, where they both had 224 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 4: internships at Community Hospital in Glen Cove, Long Island. Then 225 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 4: she went on to specialize in psychiatry, becoming a resident 226 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 4: at Manhattan State Hospital. In nineteen sixty two, she and 227 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 4: her husband moved to Denver, Colorado, to teach at the 228 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 4: University of Colorado Medical School. She had been disturbed by 229 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 4: the treatment of the dying throughout her time in the 230 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 4: United States, and found nothing in the medical school curriculum 231 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 4: at that time that addressed death and dying. Filling in 232 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 4: for a colleague one time, Kubler Ross brought in a 233 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 4: sixteen year old girl who was dying from leukemia into 234 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 4: the classroom. She told the students to ask the girl 235 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 4: any questions they wanted, but after receiving numerous questions about 236 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 4: her condition, the girl erupted in anger and started asking 237 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 4: the questions that mattered to her as a person, such 238 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 4: as what it was like to not be able to 239 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 4: dream about growing up or going to the prom according 240 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 4: to an article in The New York Times. Moving to 241 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 4: Chicago in nineteen sixty five, Kubler Ross became an instructor 242 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 4: at the University of Chicago's Medical School. A small project 243 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 4: about death with a group of theology students evolved into 244 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 4: a series of well attended seminars featuring candid interviews with 245 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 4: people who were dying. Building upon these interviews and research, 246 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 4: Kubler Ross wrote on Death and Dying in nineteen sixty nine, 247 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 4: which identified the five stages that most terminally ill patients 248 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 4: experienced es denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. The identification 249 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 4: of these stages was a revolutionary concept at the time, 250 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:14,719 Speaker 4: but has since become widely accepted. Life Magazine ran an 251 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 4: article on Kubler Ross in November nineteen sixty nine, bringing 252 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 4: public awareness to her work outside the medical community. The 253 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 4: response was enormous and influenced Kubler Ross's decision to focus 254 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 4: her career on working with the terminally ill and their families. 255 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 4: The intense scrutiny her work received also had an impact 256 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 4: on her career path. Kubler Ross stopped teaching at the 257 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:46,679 Speaker 4: university to work privately on what she called the greatest 258 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 4: mystery in science, which was death. During her career, Kubler 259 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 4: Ross wrote more than twenty books. She also traveled around 260 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 4: the world giving her life, death and transition workshops funded 261 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 4: by the profits from her books, workshops and talks. She 262 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 4: established Shantynalaya, an educational retreat center in Escondido, California, in 263 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 4: nineteen seventy seven. Around that same time, she formed the 264 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 4: Elizabeth Kubler Ross Center, which was later moved to her 265 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 4: Virginia farm. In the mid nineteen eighties, working with AIDS 266 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 4: patients during the early days of the epidemic, she tried 267 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 4: to create a hospice for AIDS afflicted children. In the 268 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 4: later part of her career, Kubler Ross became increasingly interested 269 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 4: in the issues of life after death, spirit guides, spirit channeling, 270 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 4: which was met with criticism and scorned by her peers 271 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 4: in the medical community. For one who wrote so extensively 272 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 4: on dying and death, Kubler Ross's transition from this life 273 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 4: was not a smooth one. She retired to Arizona after 274 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 4: series of strokes in nineteen ninety five left her partially 275 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 4: paralyzed and in a wheelchair. I am like a plane 276 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 4: that has left the gate and not taken off. She said, 277 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 4: according to an article in the Los Angeles Times, I 278 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,479 Speaker 4: would rather go back to the gate or fly away. 279 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 4: In two thousand and two, Kubler Ross moved into a hospice. 280 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 4: She died on August twenty fourth, two thousand and four, 281 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 4: of natural causes, surrounded by her friends and family. Not 282 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 4: long before her death, she had finished work on her 283 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 4: final book on grief and grieving, which she wrote with 284 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 4: David Kessler. Kubler Ross was survived by her two children 285 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 4: and two grandchildren. In two thousand and seven, she was 286 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 4: inducted into the National Woman's Hall of Fame for her work. 287 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 4: Kubler Ross helped the public discussion on death and dying 288 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 4: in the after life, and campaigned vigorously for better treatment 289 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 4: and care for the terminally ill. We certainly owe doctor 290 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 4: Ross a lot of gratitude. Here's some words from her book, 291 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 4: The Tunnel and the Light, essential insights on living and dying. 292 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 4: It is said somewhere, ask and you will be given, 293 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 4: knock and it will open, or in a different language, 294 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 4: a teacher will appear when the student is ready. This 295 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 4: proved to be very true within One week after raising 296 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,959 Speaker 4: this important question and making a commitment to finding an 297 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 4: answer to it, we were visited by nurses who shared 298 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 4: with us the experience of a woman, missus Schwartz, who 299 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 4: had been in the intensive care unit fifteen times. Each 300 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 4: time this woman was expected to die, and yet each 301 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 4: time she was able to walk out of the intensive 302 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 4: care unit to live for another few weeks or months. 303 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 4: She was, as we would call it now, our first 304 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 4: case of a near death experience. This occurred simultaneously with 305 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 4: my increasing sensitivity and observation of other unexplained phenomena at 306 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 4: the time when my own patients were very, very close 307 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 4: to death, many of them began to hallucinate the presence 308 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 4: of loved ones with whom they'd apparently had some form 309 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 4: of communication with, but who I personally was neither able 310 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 4: to see nor hear. I was also quite aware that 311 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 4: even the angriest and most difficult patients, very shortly before 312 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 4: death began to deeply relax, have a sense of serenity 313 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,719 Speaker 4: around them, and begin to be pain free in spite 314 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 4: of perhaps a cancer ridden body. Also, at the moment 315 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 4: of death, their facial features expressed an incredible sense of 316 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,959 Speaker 4: peace and serenity, which I could not comprehend since it 317 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 4: was often a death that occurred during a stage of anger, bargaining, 318 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 4: or depression. We discovered that it is possible to do 319 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 4: research on life after death. This discovery was for me 320 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 4: an incredibly moving experience, and I will simply summarize what 321 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 4: we have learned in the many, many years studying this phenomena, 322 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 4: which is called, for the time being, the near death experience. 323 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 4: Our dream was to collect twenty cases. We now have 324 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 4: twenty thousand cases. We never published them, and I'm glad 325 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 4: we never did because what we found out when we 326 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 4: started to look for cases was that there were lots 327 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 4: of people who were willing to share with us, but 328 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 4: they always started sharing by saying, doctor Ross, I will 329 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 4: share something with you if you promise not to tell 330 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 4: it to another human being. They were almost paranoid about 331 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 4: it because when they came back after having this glorious experience, 332 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 4: which for them was very sacred, very private, and shared 333 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 4: it with people, they got a nice little pat on 334 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 4: the back and we're told, well, you are under drugs 335 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 4: or it is very normal that people hallucinate at moments 336 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 4: like this. They were also given psychiatric labels, which of 337 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 4: course made them angry or depressed. We always need to 338 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 4: label things we don't understand. Why is that? There are 339 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 4: many things that we don't know yet, but that doesn't 340 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 4: mean they don't exist. Amen to that, doctor Koubler Ross. 341 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 4: Let's have another quote by doctor Ross. There are only 342 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 4: two emotions, love and fear. All positive emotions come from love, 343 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 4: all negative emotions from fear. From love flows happiness, contentment, peace, 344 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 4: and joy. From fear comes anger, hate, anxiety, and guilt. 345 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 4: It's true that there are only two primary emotions, love 346 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 4: and fear, but it's more accurate to say that there 347 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 4: is only love or fear. We cannot feel these two 348 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 4: emotions together at exactly the same time. They are opposites. 349 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 4: If we are in fear, we are not in a 350 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 4: place of love. When we're in a place of love, 351 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 4: we cannot be in a place of fear. In our 352 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 4: next segment, together, I'll read some words from Caroline Mace, 353 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 4: well known medical intuitive, New York Times best selling author 354 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 4: and friend of doctor Elizabeth Koubler Ross. We'll be right back. 355 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 4: You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio 356 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:46,400 Speaker 4: and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 357 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 2: Don't go anywhere. 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So 364 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 5: head on over to the Coast to coastam dot com website. 365 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 5: We have a handy video guide to help you get 366 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 5: the most out. 367 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 4: Of your mobile app usage. 368 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 5: All the info is waiting for you now at Coast 369 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 5: to coastam dot com. That's Coast to coastam dot com. 370 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 6: The best afterlife information you can. 371 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,120 Speaker 2: Get well your own. 372 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 4: Mid Shades of the Afterlife with Sander Champlain. Welcome back 373 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 4: to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sanders Champlain and we 374 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:56,959 Speaker 4: are exploring the work of pioneer doctor Elizabeth Koubler Ross. Next, 375 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 4: I'd like to read to you some words from Caroline May, 376 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 4: who was a friend and interviewed doctor Ross. Caroline is 377 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 4: a five time New York Times best selling author, an 378 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 4: internationally renowned speaker in the fields of human consciousness, spirituality, 379 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 4: and mysticism, health, energy, medicine, and the science of medical intuition. 380 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,120 Speaker 4: Here are her words. I was privileged to know Elizabeth 381 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 4: Koubler Ross, not as well as some, but well enough 382 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 4: to know that she was a paradox. For example, during 383 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 4: her last two years, as her health was failing, she 384 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 4: phoned me three times, not to learn what she could 385 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 4: do to help heal herself, but rather to find out 386 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 4: what she could do to help herself die more quickly 387 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 4: she found living in a wheelchair, slowly waiting for death 388 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 4: to come, and unbearable suffering. She fought with God until 389 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 4: the very end, angry that she could not determine her 390 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 4: time of death. Even Elizabeth, it seemed, had to walk 391 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 4: through the famous stages of death and dying. That was Elizabeth, feisty, stubborn, wilful, intense, 392 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 4: and determined to have things her way, even her own death. 393 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 4: Death did not scare Elizabeth. Neither her own nor anyone else's. Death, however, 394 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 4: did scare almost everyone else, and that fact is what 395 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 4: made Elizabeth one of the most controversial figures of the 396 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 4: medical community during her lifetime. All of the many things 397 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 4: that come to mind in describing this incredible woman, one 398 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 4: phrase seems to sum up her whole life. Elizabeth was, 399 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 4: as I mentioned earlier, a paradox, working within a society 400 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 4: and culture rooted in Judeo Christian tradition which holds fast 401 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 4: to the belief in the afterlife. Elizabeth devoted her life 402 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 4: to proving that this belief was not in vain. An 403 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 4: after life did exist, and not only that it was beautiful. 404 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 4: Dying was just the beginning of another life, an eternal 405 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 4: life that was filled with love and the promise of 406 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 4: meeting those who died before us. And yet it was 407 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 4: this Western Christian culture, rooted in an afterlife theology, which 408 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 4: challenged her death and dying work the most. Consider Elizabeth's 409 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 4: argument that the dying person was in fact prepared by 410 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 4: some cosmic pattern that organically emerged within the person's psyche 411 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 4: for this journey of crossing over. People didn't just leave 412 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 4: this earth as if their lives didn't matter. They were 413 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 4: prepared for the process of leaving this earth, suggesting it 414 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 4: was important that each of us take the whole of 415 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 4: our souls with us when we depart. She noted that indeed, 416 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 4: the shop of being given a critical diagnosis by a 417 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 4: physician most often results in anger. No one responds to 418 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 4: that news with joy. Then depression sets in a natural 419 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 4: response to feeling helpless when confronted with a crisis in 420 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 4: which you are told there is nothing you can do, 421 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 4: but the patient. Elizabeth urged should not be abandoned by 422 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 4: physicians or family during this time, nor ignored out of 423 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 4: fear of death. Due to the age old superstition that 424 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 4: death might be contagious. Not speaking about death does not, 425 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 4: in fact calm the patient. The truth is, the patient 426 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 4: knows he or she is dying through the natural knowledge 427 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 4: of the soul. To not speak about this process is 428 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 4: to deny the human being the essential need to complete 429 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 4: unfinished business by collecting the fragments of the soul that 430 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 4: long to together before the soul is called home. It 431 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 4: is that completion that ultimately brings the soul peace and calm, 432 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 4: making it ready to release from its earthly life, and 433 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 4: completion requires open dialogue with friends, family members, business associates, 434 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 4: and even adversaries. Identifying the stages of dying made Elizabeth famous, 435 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 4: but paradoxically, it also made her notorious. Notorious because she 436 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 4: tampered with the taboo of talking about death in a 437 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 4: society that is deaf phobic. Yet, and here is one 438 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 4: more paradox. This Christian society, with its belief in death 439 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 4: and resurrection, found death and dying to be the failure 440 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 4: of medicine to succeed, and thus Elizabeth's accomplishments were met 441 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 4: with controversy instead of with the acclaim they should have 442 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 4: merited during her lifetime. Nevertheless, she forged on and inspired 443 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 4: the hospice movement and near death studies, reporting numerous incidents 444 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 4: of people who were clinically dead and then returned to life. 445 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 4: In one of her lectures, she speaks of near death 446 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 4: experiences and notes with great hope and optimism that the 447 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 4: individuals who have had these extraordinary events report encounters with 448 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 4: their deceased family members, and then a tunnel of light 449 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 4: embraces them with a quality of love transcendent of that 450 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 4: which can be named here on earth. Again, the paradox 451 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 4: of Elizabeth's research is that it was scientific and rigorous, 452 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 4: yet also love centered, hopeful, and filled with messages of 453 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 4: christ consciousness. Yet her work was feared, especially by the 454 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 4: medical community, who simply could not break through its conditioning 455 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 4: that medicine was about life and not dying. The paradox 456 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 4: was that Elizabeth did practice medicine, but it was medicine 457 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 4: for the soul and not the body. She found more 458 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 4: than a career, Elizabeth had a spiritual calling. I have 459 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 4: no doubt in the years to come, Elizabeth's work will 460 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 4: continue to be valued as groundbreaking material. She took on 461 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 4: a cultural myth and cracked it right in half. She 462 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 4: took on death itself. I consider her one of the 463 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 4: heroines of our age. Again. That's by author Caroline Mace. 464 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 4: Caroline describes doctor Elizabeth Koubler Ross as a paradox several 465 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 4: times in the words that I just read the definition 466 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 4: of a paradox, a seemingly absurd or self contradictory statement that, 467 00:33:55,440 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 4: when investigated or explained, may prove to be wealthy founded 468 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 4: and true. Next, I'd like to read some words from 469 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,800 Speaker 4: doctor Kubler Ross from her book on Life after Death. 470 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 4: I am sharing with you some of the experiences and 471 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 4: findings of the last decade gathered since we started seriously 472 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 4: studying the whole issue of death and life after death. 473 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 4: After working with dying patients for so many years, it 474 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 4: became very evident that, in spite of our existence for 475 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 4: so many millions of years, as human beings, we have 476 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 4: not yet come to a clear understanding of perhaps the 477 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 4: most important question, namely the meaning and purpose of life 478 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 4: and death. I wanted to share with you some of 479 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,959 Speaker 4: this research on death and life after death. I think 480 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 4: the time has come when we are all going to 481 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 4: put these findings together in a language that can help 482 00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 4: people to understand and also perhaps help them in dealing 483 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 4: with the death of a loved one, especially the tragic 484 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 4: occurrence of a sudden death, when we don't quite understand 485 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 4: why these tragedies have to happen to us. It is 486 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 4: also very important when you try to counsel and help 487 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,800 Speaker 4: dying people and their families, and the question occurs over 488 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 4: and over again, what is life? What is death? And 489 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 4: why do young children, especially young children, have to die? 490 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 4: A long time ago, people were much more in touch 491 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 4: with the issue of death and believed in heaven or 492 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 4: life after death. It is only in the last one 493 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 4: hundred years, perhaps that fewer and fewer people truly know 494 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 4: that life exists after the physical body dies. We are 495 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 4: now in a new age, and hopefully we have made 496 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 4: a transition from an age of science and technology and 497 00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 4: materialism to a new age of genuine and o thorthentic spirituality. 498 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:07,320 Speaker 4: Spirituality is an awareness that there is something far greater 499 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 4: than we are, something that created this universe, created life, 500 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 4: and that we are an authentic, important, significant part of 501 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 4: it and can contribute to its evolution. All of us, 502 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,479 Speaker 4: when we were born, came from the source, and we're 503 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 4: endowed with a facet of divinity. That means, in a 504 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 4: very literal sense, that we have a part of that 505 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,280 Speaker 4: source within us. That is what gives us the knowledge 506 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 4: of our immortality. Many people are beginning to be aware 507 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 4: that the physical body is only the house or the temple, 508 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 4: or as we call it, the cocoon, which we inhabit 509 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 4: for a certain number of months or years until we 510 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,720 Speaker 4: make the transition called death. Then, at the time of death, 511 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 4: we shed this cocoon and are once again as free 512 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 4: as a butterfly. To use the symbolic language that we 513 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 4: use when talking to dying children and their siblings, I 514 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 4: have worked with dying patients for the last twenty years. 515 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 4: When I started this work, I must say I was 516 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 4: neither very interested in life after death, nor did I 517 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,360 Speaker 4: have any real clear picture about the definition of death. 518 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,840 Speaker 4: When you study the scientific definition of death, you see 519 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 4: that it only includes the death of a physical body, 520 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 4: as if man would only exist as the cocoon. I 521 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 4: was one of the physicians and scientists who did not 522 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 4: ever question that. It only became a really relevant and 523 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 4: important issue in the nineteen sixties when the transplant of organs, 524 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:53,239 Speaker 4: especially kidneys and hearts, raised an important question as to 525 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 4: when we are ethically, morally and legally allowed to remove 526 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 4: an organ out of a patient in order to save 527 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:07,359 Speaker 4: another person's life. Being a skeptical semi believer, to put 528 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,840 Speaker 4: it mildly, and not interested in issues of life after death, 529 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,480 Speaker 4: I could not help but be impressed by several observations 530 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 4: which occurred so frequently that I began to wonder why 531 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 4: nobody ever studied the real issues of death. Not for 532 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 4: any special scientific reasons, not to cover lawsuits, needless to say, 533 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:34,359 Speaker 4: but simply out of natural curiosity. Don't you just love 534 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,799 Speaker 4: this woman? Don't you wish you could have a conversation 535 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,800 Speaker 4: with her right now? Thankfully, she's got over twenty books 536 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,359 Speaker 4: we can read. It's time for our next break, and 537 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 4: when we get back, I'll read some more from Elizabeth 538 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 4: Kobler Ross's book on life after death. You're listening to 539 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 4: Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to 540 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,800 Speaker 4: Coast AM paranormal podcast network. 541 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,399 Speaker 1: Did you know that test that could save your life 542 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,000 Speaker 1: from cancer are now available for little or no costs 543 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: thanks to the healthcare law called the Affordable Care Act. 544 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 1: Let this be the year you get screening tests that 545 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,799 Speaker 1: can detect cancer early when it's most treatable. Don't let 546 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,799 Speaker 1: concerns get in the way. Talk to a doctor or 547 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,400 Speaker 1: other medical professional to learn more about the best cancer 548 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 1: testing options for you. 549 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 4: The four. 550 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,279 Speaker 6: The Art Belvul has classic audio waiting for you now 551 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 6: go to Coast to Coast m dot com for details. 552 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:05,879 Speaker 6: We are happy to announce that our Coast to Coast 553 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 6: AM official YouTube channel has now reached over three hundred 554 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 6: thousand subscribers. You can listen to the first hour of 555 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 6: recent and past shows for free, so head on over 556 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 6: to the Coast to COASTAM dot com website and hit 557 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,960 Speaker 6: the YouTube icon at the top of the page. This 558 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:31,840 Speaker 6: is free show audio, so don't wait. Coast to COASTAM 559 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 6: dot com. 560 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:48,840 Speaker 4: Is where you want to be. Welcome back to Shades 561 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,520 Speaker 4: of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain and on this episode, 562 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:56,720 Speaker 4: we've been exploring the work of doctor Elizabeth Koobler Ross. 563 00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 4: I'd like to remind you you can visit EKO Foundation 564 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 4: dot org. Of course, you can go to Amazon and 565 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,719 Speaker 4: look up Elizabeth Koobler Ross. Also, you don't need to 566 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 4: buy a book. Go to your library. There are plenty 567 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 4: of her books. She writes in common language for us 568 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:19,720 Speaker 4: all to understand. She's a wonderful pioneer, and I'm sure 569 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,120 Speaker 4: she's continuing to make a difference from the other side. 570 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,400 Speaker 4: Now I'll continue reading from her book on Life after Death. 571 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,960 Speaker 4: Man has existed for forty seven million years and has 572 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:36,560 Speaker 4: been in its present existence, which includes the facet of divinity, 573 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,759 Speaker 4: for seven million years. Every day people die all over 574 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:44,239 Speaker 4: the world. Yet in a society that is able to 575 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,080 Speaker 4: send a man to the moon and bring him back 576 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,520 Speaker 4: well and safe, we have never put any effort into 577 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 4: the definition of human death. Isn't that peculiar? So, in 578 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 4: the midst of caring for dying patients and the teaching 579 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:02,719 Speaker 4: of medical and seminars students, we decided one day, on 580 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,040 Speaker 4: the spur of the moment, that we would try to 581 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:09,240 Speaker 4: come up with a new, updated, all inclusive definition of death. 582 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,160 Speaker 4: Doctor Ross goes on to share the story I told 583 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:17,879 Speaker 4: to you earlier about Missus Schwartz, who had fifteen near 584 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:22,399 Speaker 4: death experiences. Then she says, my third and perhaps most 585 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:27,080 Speaker 4: subjective observation was the fact that I have always been 586 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,719 Speaker 4: very close to my patients and allowed myself to get 587 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,800 Speaker 4: deeply and lovingly involved with them. They touched my life. 588 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,840 Speaker 4: I touched their lives in a very intimate and meaningful way. 589 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:43,319 Speaker 4: Yet within minutes of their death, I had no feelings 590 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 4: for these patients and often wondered if there was something 591 00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 4: wrong with me. When I looked at them, they appeared 592 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,560 Speaker 4: similar to a winter coat to be shed with the 593 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:57,919 Speaker 4: occurrence of spring, knowing it wasn't needed anymore. I had 594 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:02,759 Speaker 4: this incredibly clear image of a shell, and my beloved 595 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:07,640 Speaker 4: patient was no longer in that shell. Naturally, as a scientist, 596 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,680 Speaker 4: I could not explain this, so I would have to 597 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:14,080 Speaker 4: put these observations aside. If it had not been for 598 00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:18,879 Speaker 4: Missus Schwartz. Her husband was a known schizophrenic, and each 599 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,960 Speaker 4: time he had a psychotic episode, he would try to 600 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,480 Speaker 4: hurt his youngest son, the youngest of many children and 601 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,200 Speaker 4: the only one still at home. Missus Schwartz was convinced 602 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:33,120 Speaker 4: that if she should die prematurely, her husband would lose 603 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 4: control and the life of her youngest son would be 604 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,880 Speaker 4: in danger. Through the help of the Legal Aid Society, 605 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,360 Speaker 4: we were able to make arrangements for her to transfer 606 00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 4: the custody of this child to some relatives. She left 607 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,480 Speaker 4: the hospital with a great sense of relief and a 608 00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:53,600 Speaker 4: new freedom, knowing that should she not be able to live, 609 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,239 Speaker 4: at least her youngest child was now safe. It was 610 00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,880 Speaker 4: this same patient who returned to our hospital again almost 611 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:05,880 Speaker 4: a year later and shared her near death experience. Experiences 612 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,879 Speaker 4: like this have been published in many books and magazines 613 00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,799 Speaker 4: in the last few years and have become familiar to 614 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,800 Speaker 4: the general public. But our first experience with missus Schwartz, 615 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:21,000 Speaker 4: who told of having been hospitalized in an emergency basis 616 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,839 Speaker 4: in a local hospital in Indiana at the time, being 617 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,000 Speaker 4: too sick to be transferred as far as Chicago. She 618 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:32,600 Speaker 4: remembers being admitted in critical condition. She was put into 619 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,880 Speaker 4: a private room in a hospital, and just as she 620 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:40,880 Speaker 4: was contemplating whether she should struggle once more for the 621 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,560 Speaker 4: sake of her youngest child or simply let go lean 622 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,880 Speaker 4: back into a pillow and shed her cocoon. She became 623 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:51,399 Speaker 4: aware of her nurse, who walked into the room, took 624 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:55,040 Speaker 4: one look at her, and dashed out. At that very moment, 625 00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 4: she saw herself slowly and peacefully floating out of her 626 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,880 Speaker 4: physic body, hovering just a few feet above her bed. 627 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,719 Speaker 4: She even had a great sense of humor, relating that 628 00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,120 Speaker 4: she looked at her body, which looked pale and icky. 629 00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:14,400 Speaker 4: She said she had a sense of awe and surprise, 630 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:19,320 Speaker 4: but no fear or anxiety. She then told of watching 631 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:23,400 Speaker 4: the resuscitation team walk into the room, enumerting in great 632 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,920 Speaker 4: detail who walked in first and who walked in last. 633 00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:31,480 Speaker 4: She was totally aware of every word of their conversations, 634 00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,080 Speaker 4: of their thought patterns, and she had only one great 635 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:39,160 Speaker 4: need to convey to them to relax, to take it easy, 636 00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:42,200 Speaker 4: and to tell them that she was all right. But 637 00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,399 Speaker 4: the more desperately she tried to convey this to them, 638 00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:49,759 Speaker 4: the more frantically they seemed to work on her body. Finally, 639 00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:53,000 Speaker 4: it dawned on her that she was able to perceive them, 640 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:57,680 Speaker 4: but they were not able to perceive her. Missus Schwartz 641 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,440 Speaker 4: then decided to give up her attempts, and in her 642 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:06,120 Speaker 4: own language, she said I lost consciousness. She was declared 643 00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:11,880 Speaker 4: dead after forty five minutes of unsuccessful resuscitation attempts, but 644 00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,160 Speaker 4: later on showed signs of life again, much to the 645 00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,920 Speaker 4: surprise of the hospital staff. She lived another year and 646 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:22,879 Speaker 4: a half. Missus Schwartz shared this with my class and 647 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:27,440 Speaker 4: myself in one of my seminars. Needless to say, this 648 00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,239 Speaker 4: was a brand new experience for me. I had never 649 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,520 Speaker 4: heard of near death experiences in spite of the fact 650 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,920 Speaker 4: I had been a physician for many years. My students 651 00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,279 Speaker 4: were shocked that I did not call this hallucination an 652 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:45,440 Speaker 4: illusion or a feeling of depersonalization. They had a desperate 653 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,280 Speaker 4: need to give it a label, something that they could 654 00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,520 Speaker 4: not identify, and then put it aside and not have 655 00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:55,560 Speaker 4: to deal with it. Missus Schwartz's experience, we were sure 656 00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:59,560 Speaker 4: could not be a single unique occurrence. Our hope was 657 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,719 Speaker 4: to be able to find more cases like hers, and 658 00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:07,240 Speaker 4: perhaps move in the direction of collecting data to see 659 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:11,600 Speaker 4: if this was a common, rare or a very unique experience. 660 00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:18,160 Speaker 4: It has become known recently that many many researchers, physicians, psychologists, 661 00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:22,120 Speaker 4: and people who study this phenomena have tried to collect 662 00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:26,160 Speaker 4: cases like this. In the last ten years, over twenty 663 00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:31,440 Speaker 4: five thousand cases have been collected from all over the world. 664 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,719 Speaker 4: I'm going to stop reading right now, and what occurs 665 00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,359 Speaker 4: to me, even though this was first published back in 666 00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:44,719 Speaker 4: nineteen ninety one, is that over twenty thousand people were 667 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:50,200 Speaker 4: documented having these experiences, and doctor Ross promised that she 668 00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:54,840 Speaker 4: wouldn't share them for people's fear of being thought crazy 669 00:47:55,239 --> 00:48:00,200 Speaker 4: or hallucinating. I know now that near death experiences is 670 00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:04,120 Speaker 4: the hottest topic, and even from you, dear listeners, you 671 00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:06,759 Speaker 4: want more and more stories, so I always try to 672 00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:09,600 Speaker 4: bring them to you. But getting these stories out in 673 00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:13,000 Speaker 4: the open is what's going to have us go from 674 00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,600 Speaker 4: believing to knowing. I don't want any of us to 675 00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,400 Speaker 4: have a near death experience, because chances are there's going 676 00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,640 Speaker 4: to be some pain and suffering involved, but to learn 677 00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:30,560 Speaker 4: from others and possibly have our own induced after death communication, 678 00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:37,880 Speaker 4: whether through meditation or some other spiritually transformative experience, it 679 00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:42,760 Speaker 4: is possible. Later on in the book on Life after Death, 680 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:49,640 Speaker 4: doctor Koobler Ross shares some interesting experiences from her journey 681 00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:54,600 Speaker 4: into meditation. She calls them out of body experiences and 682 00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:59,839 Speaker 4: witnesses so much in detail and clarity convinced that we 683 00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:03,000 Speaker 4: are are more than our bodies. Later on in her life, 684 00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:07,400 Speaker 4: closer to passing, she even had her own near death experience, 685 00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,120 Speaker 4: so it was no wonder. Like Caroline Mace said in 686 00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,879 Speaker 4: the beginning, she was looking for her way to get 687 00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:17,200 Speaker 4: over there. It's not easy, as you know, to be 688 00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,480 Speaker 4: living in a human body with any infirmities that we have, 689 00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:24,120 Speaker 4: or the older we get, things start shutting down and 690 00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:27,520 Speaker 4: breaking down and aches and pains. But it's all an 691 00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:30,759 Speaker 4: experience for the soul. And I do think when we 692 00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:34,400 Speaker 4: can turn in to our inner selves, it can provide 693 00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:39,359 Speaker 4: relief but also access to that invisible world around each 694 00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,440 Speaker 4: one of us. I'd like to remind you now of 695 00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:47,520 Speaker 4: those words that doctor Elizabeth Koobler Ross spoke in the 696 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:51,399 Speaker 4: beginning of this episode. She said, I think a lot 697 00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:55,400 Speaker 4: of people in the audience have either a terminal illness, 698 00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,880 Speaker 4: or have lost a child, or are in the process 699 00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:02,480 Speaker 4: of death. Being four to face the issue. When you're 700 00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:06,200 Speaker 4: healthy and everything goes well, nobody wants to think about it, 701 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:10,719 Speaker 4: which is ridiculous because if you live life fully and 702 00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,800 Speaker 4: learn to live without fear and guilt, it doesn't matter 703 00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:19,040 Speaker 4: whether you live twenty years or ninety years, and I 704 00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:23,040 Speaker 4: think we have learned from dying patience, not so much 705 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:27,160 Speaker 4: about the old stuff, the stages of dying, but how 706 00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:31,200 Speaker 4: to live without fear and guilt, so that when death occurs, 707 00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:36,520 Speaker 4: it's okay. Remember, fear and guilt are the only enemies 708 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:40,120 Speaker 4: of man. If you can learn to live without fear 709 00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:44,920 Speaker 4: and guilt, you live every day so fully that you 710 00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:49,319 Speaker 4: feel like you've lived one hundred lives. As we leave 711 00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:53,320 Speaker 4: each other today, could it be as simply as having 712 00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,879 Speaker 4: a note with you that says, am I living from 713 00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:00,480 Speaker 4: fear and guilt? Or am I living in love? As 714 00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:04,360 Speaker 4: she says love and fear cannot exist at the same time, 715 00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:10,719 Speaker 4: we can definitely inject love into every situation we are in. Well, 716 00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:14,040 Speaker 4: my friend, it's been wonderful spending this time with you. 717 00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:18,520 Speaker 4: A reminder come visit me, would you? At we doodie 718 00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:22,160 Speaker 4: dot com. That's my home base. I have a free 719 00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:26,160 Speaker 4: Sunday gathering every Sunday two pm New York time on 720 00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:33,319 Speaker 4: Zoom inspirational, motivational, and a free medium demonstration within each 721 00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:37,480 Speaker 4: and everyone. So much more to explore there at weedodie 722 00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:41,280 Speaker 4: dot com. I'd like to leave you with one final 723 00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:46,440 Speaker 4: quote by doctor Elizabeth Koobler Ross. The most beautiful people 724 00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:51,040 Speaker 4: we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, 725 00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:55,799 Speaker 4: known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out 726 00:51:55,840 --> 00:52:00,520 Speaker 4: of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sense activity, 727 00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:06,480 Speaker 4: and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, 728 00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:11,560 Speaker 4: and a deep, loving concern. Beautiful people do not just happen. 729 00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,480 Speaker 4: I know who I'm speaking to right now. You are 730 00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:19,239 Speaker 4: a beautiful person. For all the struggles you've endured. You 731 00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:23,960 Speaker 4: are compassionate, You're kind, and you make a difference everywhere 732 00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:28,000 Speaker 4: you go. And in that invisible space around you, you 733 00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:32,000 Speaker 4: have the biggest team of cheerleaders from the other side. 734 00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:37,120 Speaker 4: There will be a reunion and happiness for eternity, but 735 00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:39,280 Speaker 4: we have a job to do first here on Earth. 736 00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,799 Speaker 4: I'm Sandra Champlain. Thank you so much for listening to 737 00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:48,319 Speaker 4: Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to 738 00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:51,800 Speaker 4: Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 739 00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:01,680 Speaker 1: And if you like this episode of Shades of the Afterlife, 740 00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,160 Speaker 1: wait until you hear the next one. Thank you for 741 00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:07,520 Speaker 1: listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal 742 00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:08,719 Speaker 1: Podcast Network.