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Speaker 1: All right, I want to tell you about this wild

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Speaker 1: concert I went to, so picture it. You're in the

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Speaker 1: middle of a sold out concert at the Vermont Theater

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Speaker 1: in Hollywood. This place holds about twelve hundred people, give

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Speaker 1: or take, but it is packed with fans. Everyone's waving

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Speaker 1: their glowsticks in unison, and they've even set their blowsticks

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Speaker 1: all to be the same exact color. It's this deep

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Speaker 1: red color because that's the artist being color. That voice

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Speaker 1: you just heard is Maria, and everyone is here to

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Speaker 1: watch or sing. She's not the only artist here on

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Speaker 1: the stage. There is also a guitarist and the bass player.

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Speaker 1: There's a drummer, and behind them, there's this massive screen

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Speaker 1: that takes up the entire back of the stage, and

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Speaker 1: there's images of Maria on that screen and also on

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Speaker 1: these big screens that are on either side of the stage.

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Speaker 1: But Maria never physically steps out onto the stage herself

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Speaker 1: because she can't. This is fantastic Reality, a mini festival

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Speaker 1: featuring YouTubers, virtual avatars that and I'm not really supposed

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Speaker 1: to say this kind of don't exist, so you know this.

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Speaker 1: This is a new one for me. I'm not gonna lie.

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Speaker 1: This is a new. Yeah, this is a new You're

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Speaker 1: you're a little bit different from most of the guests

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Speaker 1: that I talked to.

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Speaker 2: A lot of vampires come by here.

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Speaker 1: Not often. You're the first one.

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Speaker 2: I'm hon it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Cole Maria or Maria as people usually call her,

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Speaker 1: is the main organizer and also a main headlining act

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Speaker 1: for this mini festival called Fantastic Reality. She's avtuber, or

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Speaker 1: put another way, she's a virtual streamer. V Tubing is

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Speaker 1: something I knew a little bit about, but I had

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Speaker 1: no idea that people would pay upwards of one hundred

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Speaker 1: dollars to watch something like this live.

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Speaker 3: I am a vampire born thousands of years ago. I

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Speaker 3: am very timeless, and you and all of my viewers

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Speaker 3: are mortal humans. And Michael is every time you die

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Speaker 3: and be incarnate as I will find you. And this

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Speaker 3: is the way I found you in this lifetime.

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Speaker 1: Kaleidoscope and iHeart podcasts. This is kill Switch.

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Speaker 4: I'm Dextor Thomas, I'm taring, I'm sing goodbye.

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Speaker 1: So how do you describe v tubers or how do

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Speaker 1: you describe yourself to somebody who's not familiar with this

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Speaker 1: at all?

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Speaker 3: Usually, for like when I describe it to by gen

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Speaker 3: Z cousins. I give the example of Imagine offline TV,

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Speaker 3: but they're all anime girls, and that usually gets the point.

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Speaker 4: Of c.

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Speaker 1: Okay, all right.

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Speaker 2: And for my.

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Speaker 3: Sister who's a little bit older than me, how I

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Speaker 3: describe it is Imagine like podcasters or like whatever she

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Speaker 3: likes to watch, but they're anime girls.

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Speaker 1: Essentially, a VTuber is someone who uses a virtual avatar

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Speaker 1: to make videos online. The viewers don't see the person's

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Speaker 1: physical body, instead, they see the avatar. So if you've

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Speaker 1: ever used that filter thing on an iPhone where you

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Speaker 1: can control the movements or the facial expressions of an

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Speaker 1: emoji with your face, that's the general idea. You're in

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Speaker 1: the ballpark with a v tuber. There's usually a little

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Speaker 1: bit more set up involved, so it can track the

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Speaker 1: movements of your hands. It contract the movements of your body,

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Speaker 1: so if you wave your hands with something like that,

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Speaker 1: so does the avatar. Your virtual avatar can look like anything.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't have to look like an anime girl, but

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Speaker 1: the most popular v tubers are definitely anime girls. There's

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Speaker 1: some follow up questions that have to come after that,

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Speaker 1: which would be okay, But why anime girls.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean for me personally, I've always been like huge

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Speaker 3: on anime, but for a lot of people, anime before

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Speaker 3: was this really niche thing. I remember like being teased

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Speaker 3: for watching Dragon ball Z growing up, and now like

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Speaker 3: if you didn't catch up on Jiu Jitsu Kaisen or

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Speaker 3: five Family, like, you're kind of out of the times,

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Speaker 3: I feel. So it's really I think it has to

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Speaker 3: do with it being so widespread now, So.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't fully answer the question of why so many

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Speaker 1: of the most popular YouTubers or anime girls. And honestly,

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Speaker 1: if we were to really try to grapple with that question,

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Speaker 1: that's not just a whole other episode, it's probably an

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Speaker 1: entire other podcast itself. So we're gonna leave that to

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Speaker 1: the side. But the rise of anime's popularity in the

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Speaker 1: US and in other countries, I think it's definitely had

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Speaker 1: an impact Herevtubing might seem like a new trend to

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Speaker 1: those of us in the States, but it's been popular

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Speaker 1: in Japan for close to a decade. The term VTuber

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Speaker 1: itself goes back to Kizuna I. She's a virtual YouTuber

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Speaker 1: who first launched her straying back in twenty sixteen, and

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Speaker 1: before too long, other virtual streamers started too, and after

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Speaker 1: a few years you were starting to see other virtual

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Speaker 1: avatars doing everything from hosting online weather stations to hosting

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Speaker 1: official iPhone launches. It was still mostly a Japan thing, though,

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Speaker 1: and then covid happened and everyone went on lockdown and

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Speaker 1: streaming started to get even more popular, and with it,

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Speaker 1: v tubers started to catch some of that surge of popularity,

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Speaker 1: and it also started to spread outside of Japan. And

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Speaker 1: that's also when Maria first got into it.

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Speaker 3: We were all kind of wandering around, not sure what

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Speaker 3: to do. And you know, originally it started off for

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Speaker 3: me as a hobby and one thing led to another,

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Speaker 3: and I thought that, you know what if I tried

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Speaker 3: my shot at this. It's so weird calling myself an influencer,

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Speaker 3: but like this entertainment content creator kind of sphere.

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Speaker 1: I mean, were you watching a lot of other VTubers

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Speaker 1: at the time already?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Originally I was a fan of YouTubers much before covid.

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Speaker 3: Kisana I was kind of a really main inspiration to me.

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Speaker 1: Maria's streams vary from just chatting to ASMR to doing

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Speaker 1: karaoke and like just about every other streamer. She also

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Speaker 1: plays video games. There's all kinds of content that v

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Speaker 1: tubers can put out, Like there's this one v tuber

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Speaker 1: that I've been watching for years who he says he's

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Speaker 1: ex Yakuza, so like this old school Japanese mafia dude,

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Speaker 1: and he just talks about the old days doing yakuza stuff.

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Speaker 1: But his avatar looks like this innocent looking twenty something

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Speaker 1: year old despite the fact that based off his voice,

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Speaker 1: this guy has to be sixty plus. But what distinguishes

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Speaker 1: v tubers from other streamers, and really what distinguished the

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Speaker 1: very first VTuber kisana I from these other streamers and

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Speaker 1: video creators other than the virtual part, is their lore.

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Speaker 1: So kisana I, we pronounced it I, but that last

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Speaker 1: bit is spelled AI, and her whole backstory is that

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Speaker 1: she's a self aware artificial intelligence, and everyone knew that

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Speaker 1: she was actually played by a real life voice actor,

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Speaker 1: and they just sort of played along with it even

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Speaker 1: though they knew it wasn't real. And that's a big

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Speaker 1: part of youtubing culture. There's usually some kind of backstory

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Speaker 1: or lore behind each persona, and the fans will buy

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Speaker 1: into it and make believe along with the VTuber. So

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Speaker 1: part of Maria's lore, like she said, is that she's

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Speaker 1: a vampire and that she's a mortal. So every time

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Speaker 1: that you die and you're reincarnated, she'll find you so

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Speaker 1: that you can be together again. All this pretending stuff

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Speaker 1: might sound really outlandish and bizarre to you unless you've

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Speaker 1: watched professional wrestling. I am talking about Macho Madness and

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Speaker 1: hal Comania, two makeup powers beating here tonight, Haulkgain.

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Speaker 5: What has happened?

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Speaker 1: Well, you know me, Jean, we really don't know what

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Speaker 1: we're dealing with here. Man, I'm just worried about where

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Speaker 1: we're going from here. When people watched Hulk Hogan smash

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Speaker 1: a chair over Macho Man's head, we all knew it

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Speaker 1: was fake, but it was still absolutely nuts to watch

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Speaker 1: those two former enemies create a tag team together and

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Speaker 1: shake hands on live TV. But I get it. It's drama.

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Speaker 1: It's fun even if it's fake. But wrestling fans don't

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Speaker 1: say that word. They don't say something is fake. They

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Speaker 1: have another industry lingo for it, kfabe, the concept of

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Speaker 1: everyone pretending that what they're seeing is real, and VTuber

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Speaker 1: fans also use this exact same term kfabe. They just

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Speaker 1: go about it a little differently.

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Speaker 2: I personally, I am pretty strict with my kfabe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, tell me about that. Are there certain questions you

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Speaker 1: aren't going to answer if I ask them?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I think so.

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Speaker 3: I think that I am a vampire through and through.

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Speaker 3: So what I do camera streams? For example, I just

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Speaker 3: did one for a card game called Shadow vers Evolve.

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Speaker 2: I wear gloves.

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Speaker 3: I want to separate, like completely, flesh and the immersion.

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Speaker 1: So not the face, but even just the skin, even

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Speaker 1: just the skin of your hand or your arm or something.

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Speaker 3: Yes, even just the skin. I personally just like to

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Speaker 3: hide it.

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Speaker 1: Some v tubers take their k fab a little more

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Speaker 1: seriously than Maria does. Even the fact that she's here

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Speaker 1: talking about her outside life is kind of breaking k

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Speaker 1: fab itself. There are some v tubers who straight up

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Speaker 1: would prefer not to talk about this at all. I

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Speaker 1: don't think they would let me interview them. It's gotten

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Speaker 1: a lot more diverse since the early days.

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Speaker 3: I think now that the medium has progressed and it's

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Speaker 3: become so widespread, it is simply just like the medium.

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Speaker 3: It's just the static behind it. This anime girl and

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Speaker 3: the rules. I say rules, but what used to be

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Speaker 3: the regular thing for the industry now has really been

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Speaker 3: much flexible. We've seen people who face reveal, and that

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Speaker 3: before was not a common thing. And now I think

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Speaker 3: V two being has expanded enough and there is no

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Speaker 3: right or wrong way to YouTube.

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Speaker 1: YouTubers will now also show their face at conventions, and

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Speaker 1: you can even take pictures with them, as long as

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Speaker 1: you don't post their picture online. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: say all this stuff is necessarily taboo, but it is

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Speaker 1: definitely not good form to go jump in somev tuber's

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Speaker 1: chat while they're streaming and say, hey, who are you really?

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Speaker 1: Do you really look like that? Where do you live?

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Speaker 1: Guaranteed everyone is going to get pissed off at you.

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Speaker 1: And it makes sense because avtuber can't pretend on their own.

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Speaker 1: Everyone's kind of working together as a team to build

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Speaker 1: this fantasy. It's just part of the culture. Is how

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Speaker 1: people do it, partially because it's fun, but for some

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Speaker 1: people there are some other motivations.

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Speaker 3: The beauty of youtubing is that there is and I

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Speaker 3: always mess up their.

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Speaker 2: Anmidi anan amidity.

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Speaker 3: To it, and I think that's also a really big

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Speaker 3: appeal to a lot of us creators. Why is that recently,

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Speaker 3: actually I don't remember the name of there's a YouTuber

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Speaker 3: and you made a post about I'm going to stop

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Speaker 3: youtubing because it's affecting my family.

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Speaker 1: Maria is talking about Luke Nichols, who ran the Outdoor

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Speaker 1: Boys channel and announced that he was retiring from YouTube

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Speaker 1: this past May. He had over fifteen million subscribers when

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Speaker 1: he just decided to stop posting videos, saying that he

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Speaker 1: needed to step away to protect his family and as

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Speaker 1: well being.

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Speaker 2: He said it.

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Speaker 3: Got bigger than he was expecting and he wanted to

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Speaker 3: live a normal life. And I think the good part

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Speaker 3: about me, too, being is I have this kind of

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Speaker 3: Hannah Montana aspect to me, of like I can do

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Speaker 3: my normal things. Recently, there's an anime convention and I

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Speaker 3: was able to be a little fangirl and enjoy my

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Speaker 3: time there without having to worry about being spotted or recognized,

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Speaker 3: even though I saw my own merchantise being sold at

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Speaker 3: that same convention.

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Speaker 1: What draws people to your streams?

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Speaker 3: I think what gets people interested is definitely the physical aspect.

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Speaker 3: I'm very cute, but something that I guess makes me

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Speaker 3: stand out is I do have a very personable and

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Speaker 3: calming voice. Youtubing can vraige from you know, the super

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Speaker 3: high energy, hectic to kind of like the more calming, soothing,

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Speaker 3: let's put this on the background while I work kind

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Speaker 3: of thing. And I think that's where a lot of

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Speaker 3: my fans find me appealing.

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Speaker 1: In that wayvtubing isn't really that different from regular streaming online.

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Speaker 1: The thing that catches the viewers I might be their

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Speaker 1: appearance or some kind of specific gimmick, but if the

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Speaker 1: viewer sticks around, it's usually the same kind of parasocial

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Speaker 1: connection that you get from other streamers or YouTubers.

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Speaker 3: What they always describe to me as is like, you know,

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Speaker 3: she's always working hard and doing her best for us.

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Speaker 3: And I think that because you're able to see me

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Speaker 3: cry on stream, that is in common. I'll be frustrated,

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Speaker 3: I'll cry, I'll get emotional.

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Speaker 1: You cry on stream?

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Speaker 3: Really yeah, it's I'm a very honest person. I think

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Speaker 3: that a lot of people they understand that I'm a vampire,

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Speaker 3: but I'm also very human. They'll they'll feel the sense of,

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Speaker 3: you know, like I I want to spend time with

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Speaker 3: this person because she is a very raw ball of emotion,

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Speaker 3: which isn't commonly found in the entertainment sphere.

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Speaker 1: So this is really interesting because you know, if I

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Speaker 1: might very gently break KFE for just a moment, and

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Speaker 1: if you might go along with me, you know, they're

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Speaker 1: they're seeing emotions on a screen, right if you're if

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Speaker 1: you're crying, or if you're you're really upset about something,

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Speaker 1: if you're really happy about something, but a person they're

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Speaker 1: not seeing. And so that's a kind of an interesting

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Speaker 1: split there if you did what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I I tend to be pretty open about,

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Speaker 3: you know, the things that we can cry. Just recently,

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Speaker 3: something very emotional or something that I typically wouldn't have

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Speaker 3: talked about was I'm sorry if it's getting a little

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Speaker 3: heavy that I lost my brother recently, and I hit

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Speaker 3: it for a while and I thought, you know what,

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Speaker 3: I think I think my viewers will understand if I

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Speaker 3: talk about it. And it was kind of something that

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Speaker 3: I kind of don't talk about my family too much,

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Speaker 3: but it was something that I kind of made the

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Speaker 3: decision to talk about.

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Speaker 2: And you know, everyone's been really kind of supportive on that.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, I mean there's the I guess the ability

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Speaker 1: to connect with somebody on a personal level even though

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Speaker 1: they're not seeing a person. That's really interesting to me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Originally I didn't enjoy streaming. I are watching streamers.

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Speaker 3: I thought that, you know, like, oh, like that's cool,

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Speaker 3: But besides a couple of clips here and there, it's

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Speaker 3: not something I really invested in. But with vtubing, even

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Speaker 3: though there is like an anime anime girl in front

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Speaker 3: of you, there's a sense of connection that I feel,

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Speaker 3: even more so than when I see irol streamers.

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Speaker 1: Somehow, Really, why is it?

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Speaker 2: I grew up.

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Speaker 3: A very very lonely nerd, and I think that a

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Speaker 3: lot of the people and a lot of YouTubers and

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Speaker 3: a lot of the viewers kind of can empathize with that,

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Speaker 3: you know, liking anime and being an introvert and like

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Speaker 3: the conversations you would only have at like an anime

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Speaker 3: convention at like your anime club. You're able to have

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Speaker 3: these anytime with like minded people, and it's it's really comforting.

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Speaker 6: To have that.

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Speaker 1: The vtubing scene has been steadily growing over the past

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Speaker 1: five years, to the point that a twelve hundred capacity

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Speaker 1: venue selling out. Honestly, wasn't that surprising to me. But

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Speaker 1: why are these fans willing to pay up to one

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Speaker 1: hundred and eighty dollars per ticket to watch these acts

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Speaker 1: in person when they can just see these v tubers

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Speaker 1: on their phone or at their house. That's after the break.

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Speaker 1: V tubers are starting to get more mainstream, and they're

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Speaker 1: showing up in some places that you might not expect.

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Speaker 1: Just a few nights after the Fantastic Reality Show, if

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Speaker 1: you went to the Dodgers game across town or Los Angeles,

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Speaker 1: you would heard v tubers from a big agency called

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Speaker 1: Hollow Live singing at the seventh inning stretcht.

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Speaker 4: Free.

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Speaker 1: It can feel like an underground thing, and in some

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Speaker 1: ways it still is, but there is big business here

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Speaker 1: and popular v tubers like Maria can get scouted to

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Speaker 1: work with certain corporations and agencies. It's sort of like

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Speaker 1: a record label scouting and signing new artists.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of independent be tubers and there are

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Speaker 3: some corporations that like to watch your streams and if

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Speaker 3: they see that you're a good fit for the company, though,

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Speaker 3: DM you and you know ask you to either audition

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Speaker 3: or ask you if you'd like to onboard directly. As

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Speaker 3: someone who's in a corporation. What's different is I do

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Speaker 3: things like three D performances. I sing, I dance, I

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Speaker 3: play video games, and you know, people want to make

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Speaker 3: sure that not only you pass the bye check, but

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Speaker 3: you know that you have that skill set behind to

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Speaker 3: do corporate vtobing.

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Speaker 1: I suppose Maria is a v tuber at a really

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Speaker 1: high level. She has to not only be able to sing,

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Speaker 1: but also promote herself. So other than the virtual avatar,

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Speaker 1: she's not that different from a pop musician under a

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Speaker 1: record label.

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Speaker 2: The scouting has been one of my biggest and most

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Speaker 2: delicious dreams of the betumbers.

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Speaker 3: Once again, I wanted to thank you a median reality and.

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Speaker 2: Now I.

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Speaker 6: Bucking drama.

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Speaker 1: This all brings us back to the Fantastic Reality concert

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Speaker 1: that I went to. Maria decided that she wanted to

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Speaker 1: put on a show with v tubers and live musicians.

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Speaker 1: This has been done in Japan, but in the States

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Speaker 1: it's definitely not a normal thing. But probably the most

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Speaker 1: impressive thing about Fantastic Reality is that it happened at all.

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Speaker 1: For example, that agency that I mentioned earlier, Hollow Live,

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Speaker 1: that put their v tubers in the Dodgers game. That

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Speaker 1: is basically the juggernaut of the industry. This is a

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Speaker 1: company that did one hundred and forty million last year,

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Speaker 1: not in ads, not in tickets, just in merch. They

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Speaker 1: have their own record label, they have their own artists,

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Speaker 1: and so filling a concert hall honestly, is probably light

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Speaker 1: work for them. Maria does not have pockets like that.

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Speaker 1: She just decided that she wanted to do a show,

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Speaker 1: and she hit up a bunch of other v tubers

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Speaker 1: who she respects, and people said yes, including v tubers

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Speaker 1: with way bigger followings than she has. The closer for

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Speaker 1: that night was a v tuber named iron Mouse, who

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Speaker 1: at one point had broken the world record for the

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Speaker 1: most people subscribed on Twitch. Put that together with some

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Speaker 1: of the other acts that Maria had gotten on this lineup,

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Speaker 1: and if you're a fan of this sort of thing,

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Speaker 1: this is like a mini Coachella, But it's not all

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Speaker 1: connections and singing talent. If you want to put on

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Speaker 1: a virtual show, you need to talk to somebody with

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Speaker 1: some experience.

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Speaker 5: If you're a weekend fan, you want to go to MSG,

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Speaker 5: you want to go to the Staples Center. Same with

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Speaker 5: like Bieber or like any of these other IRL artists.

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Speaker 5: So basically, you know, we view this like this space

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Speaker 5: is incredible because fans make it real. You know, the

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Speaker 5: performers make it real, but then the fans co sign

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Speaker 5: and make it that much realer.

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Speaker 1: Spencer Burnham was one of the producers of The Fantastic

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Speaker 1: Reality Concert.

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Speaker 5: The joke of my career has been finding jobs that

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Speaker 5: are really difficult to explain at Thanksgiving and I think

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Speaker 5: this is like the final boss of life. How do

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Speaker 5: I do that? You know?

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Speaker 1: He co founded a company called Emerging Technology Company, which

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Speaker 1: makes sense, but genuinely, I do not know what Spencer

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Speaker 1: tells his family on Thanksgiving because his resume is all

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Speaker 1: over the place. He's made an augmented reality game that

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Speaker 1: won a BAFTA Award. He's produced three D live concerts

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Speaker 1: for Justin Bieber and The Weekend. I mean, what do

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Speaker 1: you do after that? Well, one path is you get

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Speaker 1: really intovtubing.

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Speaker 5: So there were two kind of like aha moments. There

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Speaker 5: was seeing the performers need the tech, and the second

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Speaker 5: thing was one of my co producers and I went

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Speaker 5: to a YouTuber concert in the US and twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 5: and I think we heard eight different people waiting in

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Speaker 5: line saying to someone else, I can't believe I'm meeting

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Speaker 5: you in person, And there was a second aha moment

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Speaker 5: of like, these concerts are creating spaces for in person meetups,

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Speaker 5: in person hangs, ways to have your fandom extend beyond

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Speaker 5: the screen.

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Speaker 1: Extend beyond the screen while still being on the screen.

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Speaker 1: It's a little hard to wrap your head around. And

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Speaker 1: just like Spencer, Maria still sometimes finds herself explaining her vision.

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Speaker 3: Imagine Para Moore. But Haley Williams is an anime girl.

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Speaker 3: We don't want it to feel like, oh, this is

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Speaker 3: just virtual, this is just reality. It's kind of just

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Speaker 3: how can we mix it all together where you can't

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Speaker 3: tell what is virtual what is real?

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Speaker 2: Anymore?

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Speaker 3: How can we kind of prove to not just myself,

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Speaker 3: but to a lot of other people that you know,

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Speaker 3: it isn't silly to be an anime girl on the internet.

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Speaker 1: Being an anime girl on the internet is one thing,

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Speaker 1: but being an anime girl on stage involves a lot

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Speaker 1: of people behind the scenes, not justser I'll put a

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Speaker 1: link in the show notes to the Fantastic Reality Show

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Speaker 1: and you can see there is a long list of credits.

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Speaker 1: The next question, though, is how mainstream can this stuff

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Speaker 1: get Do you think there'll be a time when av

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Speaker 1: tuber is on stage at say, Coachella?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 2: I hope so, I definitely think.

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Speaker 1: So how long away do you think we are from that?

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Speaker 6: Ooh?

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Speaker 3: I think we're much closer than we think. I want

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Speaker 3: to say, was it last year hutson Miku, a virtual singer,

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Speaker 3: performed at Coachella? So I think the technology is there.

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Speaker 3: We're just kind of just waiting in our inboxes Coachella.

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Speaker 2: Hint, hint.

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Speaker 1: Hutson ay Miku is sort of a good comparison here,

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Speaker 1: I say sort of in the sense that appearance wise, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's also an anime girl that most people would associate

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Speaker 1: with that kind of general J pop type music and

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Speaker 1: the vibe that a lot of v tubers also do.

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Speaker 1: But Hutsoni Miiku isn't a VTuber. It's basically just a

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Speaker 1: mascot for a set of computer software that music producers

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Speaker 1: can use to make vocal songs without having to hire

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Speaker 1: or use an actual vocalist. It's not like there's actually

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Speaker 1: a specific human being tied to this character. But it

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Speaker 1: is interesting that they were able to put Hatsanimiku on

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Speaker 1: stage at Coachella no. Granted, not everyone liked that performance,

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Speaker 1: even some of her fans, and a lot of people

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Speaker 1: thought it was pretty weird. But I would actually argue

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Speaker 1: that a lot of people are probably more familiar with

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Speaker 1: concerts by virtual artists than they think. If you've ever

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Speaker 1: listened to the Gorillas, then there you go. This is

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Speaker 1: a band that is a bunch of fictional animated characters,

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Speaker 1: and all the way back in two thousand and one,

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Speaker 1: way before v tubers, they were putting cartoons on stage

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Speaker 1: at concerts. Music critics were a little weirded out by

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Speaker 1: back then, but audiences seem to have liked it enough

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Speaker 1: to keep going to shows still, though it's kind of

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Speaker 1: hard to blame someone for being a little skeptical of

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Speaker 1: all this at first. I mean, for you, are we

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Speaker 1: still in that phase of justifying the technology and saying

437
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: art can be done with this, that you could have

438
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: a concert that is partially virtual and this is actually worthwhile?

439
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: Are we past that?

440
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 5: I think it depends on the audience. It's like when

441
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 5: Scorsese says, like Marvel movies aren't movies. You know, It's

442
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 5: like you still have people that will point a finger

443
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 5: at something because it doesn't match their schema for what

444
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 5: art should look or feel like. You know, it happens

445
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 5: with music all the time, people saying that's not music.

446
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 5: Music is created by like a person strumming a physical

447
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 5: you know, like electronic music isn't music. Hip hop isn't music,

448
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 5: like right right, right right, orchestral music is only music,

449
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 5: you know. I think what's interesting about the space that

450
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 5: we're finding ourselves in right now is people used to

451
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 5: get into youtubing because of their fandom of anime. It

452
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 5: was this like combination of live streaming and of anime.

453
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,360
Speaker 5: But what was crazy. So there's an amazing festival conference

454
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 5: every year called off kay Expot and there was a

455
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 5: couple of people I overheard say that they were fans

456
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 5: of youtubing, not coming from an anime fandom, like they

457
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 5: were justvtuber fans. A lot of people talk about you

458
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 5: fall down the YouTuber rabbit hole. You know, it's like

459
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 5: it is a rabbit hole, like like i'd like and

460
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 5: I say that lovingly, but it's like there's two kinds

461
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 5: of people who have been on YouTuber TikTok, those who

462
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 5: have had YouTuber clips served to them and those who

463
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,120
Speaker 5: will you know, it's like, uh, you're just gonna see

464
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 5: it at a point you know.

465
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: Okay, maybevtubing is going to become more mainstream, but you

466
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: know what else is becoming more mainstream AI. So how

467
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: are the fans and more importantly, the v tubers feeling

468
00:26:55,359 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: about the possibility of artists becoming automated? That's after the break.

469
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: We can't talk about v tubers without talking about Blue.

470
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: So this is an AI generated v tuber who was

471
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: created by a guy who ran a really successful YouTube channel,

472
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: but he wanted to take a break and he realized

473
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 1: that if he physically wasn't on screen, he wouldn't be

474
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: able to keep his business running. The creator talked to

475
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: CNBC and broke it down in a really straightforward way.

476
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 6: The flow in this equation is the human, so we

477
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 6: need to somehow remove the human out of this, out

478
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 6: of the channel.

479
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: So to be clear, this is someone who came from

480
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: outside of YouTuber culture and kind of just jumped in.

481
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: And not only were a lot of v tuber fans

482
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: not into it, a lot of his own fans didn't

483
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:58,959
Speaker 1: like it either, and they were very vocal about it.

484
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,400
Speaker 1: On the other hand, there is an obvious financial incentive here.

485
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: If not for individual creators, then for corporations. Last year,

486
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: the venture capital firm Andrees and Horowitz posted an article

487
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: that has this anime market map, and it puts AI

488
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: companions and V twoing side by side and breaks down

489
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: the kind of money that can be made here. I

490
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: don't think it's a stretch to imagine that there are

491
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: companies who were very interested in figuring out how they

492
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 1: can make money more efficiently off of fans if they

493
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 1: can convince them to like AI. But if you talk

494
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: to those fans and I have, you start to realize

495
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: that this might not be such an easy sell. One

496
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: thing that I've noticed recently is that when somebody's describing

497
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: v tubers, they always include it somewhere in parentheses, not AI.

498
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: This isn't AI. I guess. One of the things that

499
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: I think about is that even in the you could say,

500
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: more traditional same music industry, right, there's a lot of

501
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: talk about, hey, how can we use AI and music?

502
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: And this isn't necessarily coming from musicians, It's coming from

503
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: the corporations. Yeah, right, And so I think if there

504
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: are corporations who are thinking about, how could we have

505
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: we could just generate music via AI and we could

506
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: just have a virtual artist that's starting to get a

507
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: little bit close to whatvtubers are doing, and it seems

508
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: like actually you tubers might be the first line of

509
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: where this starts to encroach.

510
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:32,959
Speaker 2: That's interesting.

511
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 3: I think that the culture and of youtubing is that

512
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 3: if you use AI that it's really looked down upon.

513
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 2: So I think that a lot of YouTubers.

514
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 3: Have made that ruin because we're all independent and we

515
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 3: have that kind of culture of you know, let's keep

516
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 3: working with human with humans, like right, yeah, I want

517
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 3: to say, you know, like in our sphere, we're pretty

518
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 3: safe from that. Vtwo B has grown because of artists.

519
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 3: You know, our visuals are made by human artists. Our

520
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 3: rigging is made by human riggers, Our songs.

521
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 2: Are made by humans.

522
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 3: And I think that it would be a little bit

523
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 3: insulting to the way we grow and the way that

524
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 3: we have advertised ourselves has always been community based. And

525
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 3: you know, a lot of the fan art that's made,

526
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 3: like the people who watch us are humans. Like art

527
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 3: is an expression of, you know, the human experience. So

528
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 3: to lose that in the entertainment industry, I think is

529
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 3: a really scary thought. And I hope that will never

530
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 3: lose that, and I hope that the things that really

531
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 3: mean the most to us well will still be the

532
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 3: human creative thing, even if it does mean it costs

533
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 3: more money.

534
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's always that, and this is

535
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: just speaking you know, as artists here. I think there's

536
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: always worry that some of the audience might start to

537
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: be satisfied with fake right, is that they get they

538
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: really enjoy somebody who's making real stuff for them, and

539
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: they really appreciate what they're doing as a person. And

540
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: then if they're provided something which is just an endless

541
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: supply of stuff, even if it's not as good, they

542
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: might say, ah, I like this because this person never

543
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: takes breaks. This person, right, this AI thing never takes breaks.

544
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: And if I could be entertained by an AI fake

545
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: version of something that I like, I'll take that because

546
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: it's more convenient.

547
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I definitely see where you're coming from, especially like

548
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 3: when I go on YouTube now, I go on YouTube shorts,

549
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 3: and I see a lot of this AI dub stuff,

550
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 3: and like, you know, to be honest, like I kind

551
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 3: of don't get it too much, Like I know that

552
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 3: it's kind of like it's kind of like this junk

553
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 3: food of consumption of media where it's like really fast

554
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 3: and really easy, but then you kind of realize this

555
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 3: isn't good for me and you go back to that

556
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 3: human created stuff. I know it's kind of inevitable that

557
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 3: we will see it, but I think, you know, I

558
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 3: think people will always go back and realize, you know,

559
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 3: this is like, yes, this is quick, and this is

560
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 3: making me entertained, but it doesn't give me that same

561
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 3: fulfillment as listening to someone who cried while writing the

562
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 3: lyrics to a song. You know what I mean. I,

563
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 3: for example, like one of the songs that I sing

564
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 3: is something that I like, poured my entire heart into.

565
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 3: And I think that no matter how far into the

566
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 3: AI sphere people get into, like, it will never amount

567
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 3: to like that experience and you know, being able to

568
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 3: tell that story that only I have experience.

569
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: So you don't think any of your fans would leave

570
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: you for an AI Maria.

571
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think they will.

572
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: And maybe this is counterintuitive, but fans really seem to

573
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: like the idea that there are people tied to all

574
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: of this.

575
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 5: One of the cool things about YouTube and community is

576
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 5: how people see these virtual characters. They assume this must

577
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 5: be like an AI friendly like fandom, you know what

578
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 5: I mean? Yes, so not the case, Like what's amazing

579
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 5: is number one. There's always a human element. There are

580
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 5: famous v tuber modelers, character riggers, character animators, because like

581
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 5: it's always about the artist. You know. V tubers aren't

582
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 5: just live streamers, they're also voice actors. They're motion capture performers.

583
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 5: Like to have a model. That model is rigged, so

584
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,719
Speaker 5: every pixel that you see has some type of physics

585
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 5: applied to it more or less. Right, So if I

586
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 5: have a model, it's not just enough for me to

587
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 5: sit here. I have to be animating. I have to

588
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 5: be in a state of almost like pantomime level of.

589
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: Performance, really exaggerated.

590
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, a VTuber is a real time person that has

591
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 5: to understand like they play their model like it's an instrument.

592
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,359
Speaker 5: There's a term in VTuber called scuff, Like you can

593
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 5: be the biggest agency in the world and there will

594
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 5: be a degree of like something's gonna go wrong and

595
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 5: the fans are like haha, haa, like look at the scuff.

596
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 1: You know.

597
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 5: It's like if something doesn't go exactly as planned, the

598
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 5: fans celebrated. They're like Oh that's cool. It doesn't fully

599
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 5: like Pierce Surveil necessarily, but it's enough to show that

600
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 5: this is live, like this is real. You know.

601
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 1: I find this conflict really interesting because I came into

602
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: this whole thing thinking, man, v tubers are the obvious

603
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: first target. They're really going to be going at this

604
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: trying to push AI on them, And you know what,

605
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: I still think that, But what I'm seeing is that

606
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: the community is actively fighting against it, and there are

607
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: people who are being very vocal about not wanting AI

608
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: in their space at all.

609
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 5: Part of the reason that we got so excited about

610
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 5: youtubeing number one was because of how, at the time

611
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 5: when it was put on a radar, it was the

612
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,399
Speaker 5: only online fantom that was rejecting NFTs and web three.

613
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 5: Interesting really, yeah, oh they just weren't. They didn't want

614
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 5: any other The fans shot it down. Wow, they want

615
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 5: to be fans. They don't want financial incentives for being fans.

616
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 5: NFT became synonymous with scam and the vtaming I mean

617
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 5: not just the vtubing space, but like, yeah, vtubing fans

618
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 5: rejected NFTs and then vtubing fans project AI.

619
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: You know, this actually reminds me of something else that

620
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: I sought the concert. So the Fantastic Reality Concert was

621
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 1: sponsored by this Japanese YouTuber app called Irium, which is

622
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 1: basically this streaming app that only hasv tubers on it.

623
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: The idea is that if you want to try outvtubing,

624
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 1: the app helps you create your own avatar and you

625
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: can do everything on your phone. Anyway, I met one

626
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 1: of the representatives there and I was talking to him,

627
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: and as we were talking, I asked him his company's

628
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: stance on AI, and he told me that actually, the

629
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: Arium app did have some basic AI features to help

630
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: you animate your avatar, but when they brought the app

631
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,320
Speaker 1: to the they removed all those features because they realized

632
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: that people really did not like AI at all. And

633
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,280
Speaker 1: just on the human connection thing. There's been some pretty

634
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 1: wild stuff happening in thevtubing world that maybe illustrates this

635
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,720
Speaker 1: better than any of that. So I mentioned iron Mouse

636
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: a little earlier. This is the VTuber who at one

637
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: point broke a record for the most people subscribed on

638
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 1: Twitch and who was also the closing singer for the

639
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: Fantastic Reality show. Three weeks after the show, iron Mouse

640
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: posted a video explaining that she was leaving her agency.

641
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,320
Speaker 1: She said the company owed money not just to her,

642
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: but to a charity.

643
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 7: Unfortunately, I recently found out that for the past couple

644
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 7: of months I have been misled by the show jo

645
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 7: With the information that I currently have, I believe that

646
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 7: I am owed a significant amount of funds which I

647
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 7: have not been paid. And most importantly, the thing that

648
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 7: hurts me the most is yes that the Immune Deficiency Foundation,

649
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 7: which is the most important charity to me and also

650
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 7: the reason why I'm here today, is owed over half

651
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 7: a million dollars from the show.

652
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 2: Jill.

653
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: This was bad news. Ironmouse posted a link so that

654
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 1: people could donate to the foundation, maybe to make up

655
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: some of the difference. Over the next three days, her

656
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 1: fans helped her raise over one point two million dollars

657
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,720
Speaker 1: for the foundation. Man, you could say this stuff is silly,

658
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:33,399
Speaker 1: you can say you don't like the music, you can

659
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 1: say whatever you want. But I don't know if you

660
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 1: can say it's not real, because that is over a

661
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: million dollars of very real money that can go to

662
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:45,720
Speaker 1: help very real people. And in talking to Maria and Spencer,

663
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: I started thinking more about the VTuber world, not just

664
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: from the viewer standpoint, But from the streamer standpoint, listening

665
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: to you talk about this really interesting streaming is you

666
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 1: know this much better than I do. Streaming is tough.

667
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: Streaming is hard, but you talking about the ability to

668
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 1: stream and then walk outside and nobody knows who you

669
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: are and that kind of thing, which is kind of cool.

670
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: Would you suggest vtwoing to other people? Maybe to me?

671
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:15,760
Speaker 2: Absolutely?

672
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 1: Really?

673
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:18,320
Speaker 2: Yeah?

674
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 3: And vtubing is something I think is for everyone, no

675
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,399
Speaker 3: matter what kind of content you do. Like, honestly, I

676
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 3: think you have a really good chance because people are

677
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 3: looking for a lot of.

678
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 2: Different kinds of YouTubers.

679
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 3: You do anime related stuff, you're like a writer, like

680
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 3: that is something that I think.

681
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 2: A lot of people would really enjoy.

682
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: Really yeah, So hold on, how hard would it be

683
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: for me to flip myself into a YouTuber? What's involved?

684
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of different ways.

685
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 3: Now, we have pre made models that you can adjust to,

686
00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 3: you know, suit your aesthetic. There's models that artists that

687
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 3: you can adopt. There's also a way to make it

688
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 3: completely your own original, where you can work with an

689
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 3: artist to make a design kind of just send them

690
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 3: a mood board. There's also auditions. Erieung who is the

691
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 3: sponsor to their are concert. They have auditions open right

692
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 3: now where they have pre made models and they're just

693
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 3: looking for the souls behind it.

694
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 2: So a lot of different ways.

695
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: Oh so I could just try to apply Yeah, I

696
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: wanted to. I could just jump in and you go

697
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: straight into it.

698
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 3: You have streaming experience, you have you know your writing experience,

699
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 3: you have a lot going for you.

700
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 2: I think you have a chance.

701
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, I will I will consider this. I will

702
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: consider this.

703
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 6: Yeah.

704
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 3: For those who are just getting into vtubing themselves, I'd

705
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 3: like to say that it just starts off with a dream.

706
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:50,879
Speaker 3: It's kind of my takeaway for those who are who

707
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,760
Speaker 3: are interested in starting youtubing, and for those who are

708
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 3: completely new to the whole concept of youtubing, I would say,

709
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 3: give us a There's no one kind of streamer, same thing.

710
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 3: There's no one kind of betuber. If you haven't found

711
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 3: a YouTuber you like, maybe just keep looking. There's a

712
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 3: lot of different creators out there. There's cooking betubers, there's

713
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 3: science betubers, there's history related ones. There's so much out there,

714
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 3: and if you have an interest in something, I'm definitely

715
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 3: sure there's a YouTuber out there for you to watch.

716
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 1: I'm being serious about this. I'm actually consideringvtubing. I might

717
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: talk to you again about the Absolutely, I'm actually thinking

718
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 1: about this because if I don't have if I can

719
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,280
Speaker 1: get up and like be in my pajamas and still

720
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: turn on and stream, Yeah, that's kind of an attractive proposition.

721
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: I'm not even playing with you right now.

722
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 2: No, exactly.

723
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 3: A lot goes into IRL streaming, right there's like the

724
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 3: cameras set up, the lighting setup, you know, I definitely

725
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 3: recommend it. There's a lot of IRL streamers too that

726
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 3: have a VTuber model for those times that they don't

727
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 3: want to have their face on there.

728
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,240
Speaker 2: So okay, you can always mix match.

729
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: All right, we're winded down here, and you might be

730
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: still here at the end and saying, man, I still

731
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,720
Speaker 1: don't like any of this, all this VTuber stuff, this music.

732
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, it's all fake. And

733
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: maybe you can say that, but I personally don't have

734
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: that luxury because I like rap music. Hip hop. Rap

735
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:25,959
Speaker 1: is a genre that, despite being completely obsessed with quote

736
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 1: unquote reality, has always had some facet of collective make believe.

737
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 1: Every musical genre, every musical culture has had some element

738
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: of collective pretending to it. You could talk about hip hop,

739
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 1: you could talk about folk music, you could talk about

740
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: punk music. VTuber fans, I think, are just more honest

741
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 1: and maybe less pretentious about the whole thing. But there

742
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: is something that I think YouTuber fans might have on

743
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: the rest of us, for real, is that maybe they

744
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: have had more time than us to think about what

745
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: it means means to separate the human from the machine

746
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: and to draw a border and to protect the human

747
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 1: creativity there. And so seeing how they look at AI

748
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: is really interesting to me, and maybe it's an example

749
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: that other communities could follow, because if they can't prevent

750
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 1: AI from encroaching on their culture and their art, man,

751
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 1: I think the rest of us are cooked for real,

752
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 1: but we don't even have to intellectualize it like that.

753
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 1: I talk to a bunch of people at this fantastic

754
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: reality concert, and I keep coming back to what this

755
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:35,399
Speaker 1: one guy told me at the end.

756
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 6: Metubers are an expression of the happiness. To me, and

757
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 6: like I think a lot of us giving the happiness

758
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,760
Speaker 6: from watching them. I don't know exactly why, or how

759
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 6: or anything like that, but all I can say is

760
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 6: that At the end of the day, Midfantome makes me

761
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 6: happy and that's what matters to me.

762
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: And you know what, who am I to argue with that?

763
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,879
Speaker 1: That is it for this one. Thank you so much

764
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 1: for listening to kill Switch. Let us know what you think,

765
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,399
Speaker 1: and you know, if there's something you want us to cover,

766
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:14,399
Speaker 1: you can let us know. You can hit us up

767
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: at kill Switch at Kaleidoscope dot NYC, and we're also

768
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: on Instagram at kill Switch Pod. You could also hit

769
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: me directly at dex Digi that's d e x d

770
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 1: I g I on Instagram or on Blue Sky. Oh

771
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 1: and quick announcement, we're gonna be on break for a

772
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: couple of weeks, will be back on September third, so

773
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 1: you know that gives you a little bit of time

774
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 1: to maybe catch up on the backlog if there's any

775
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,399
Speaker 1: past episodes you might have missed. And while you're at it,

776
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:45,879
Speaker 1: maybe go to your podcast section of choice and leave

777
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 1: us a review because it really does help other people

778
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,879
Speaker 1: find the show, which helps us keep doing our thing.

779
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,760
Speaker 1: Also got to give a big shout out to Miniature Christian,

780
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 1: senior culture editor at Wired Magazine. This whole episode actually

781
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 1: is partially based on article that I wrote for Wired,

782
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: and so if you'd like to read that, plus all

783
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 1: the other things I mentioned in this episode, you can

784
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: find that. As always, all those links are in the

785
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 1: show note. And as always, this show was hosted by Me,

786
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 1: Dexter Thomas Junior. It's produced by Sena Ozaki, Darluk Potts,

787
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 1: and Kate Osborne. We also had production help on this

788
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: one from Alex Zaneveld. Our theme song is by me

789
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 1: and Kyle Murdoch, and Kyle also mixed the show from Kaleidoscope.

790
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Oswald Lachin, Mangesh Hachigadur, and Kate Osborne.

791
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:37,320
Speaker 1: From iHeart our executive producers are Katrina Norvil and Nikki E.

792
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 4: Tour.

793
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: Also, for the special few who stick around through the

794
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,760
Speaker 1: end of the show, I gotta say one thing. Remember

795
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 1: that I mentioned that there's a long list of credits

796
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 1: for the people who put the fantastic reality show together. Well,

797
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 1: at the end of the concert, on those big screens,

798
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 1: they roll the credits for the show, including the artists

799
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 1: in the names of the writers, and the crowd stuck

800
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: around around watch the whole thing and cheered. I thought

801
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 1: that was pretty cool anyway, Catch on the next one,