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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy Hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy Forflackgirls dot com. While I hope you love

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Speaker 1: listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not

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Speaker 1: meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a

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Speaker 1: licensed mental health professional. Y'all, thanks so much for joining

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Speaker 1: me for session four sixty eight of the Therapy for

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Speaker 1: Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after

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Speaker 1: word from our sponsors. June is Black Music Month, and

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Speaker 1: we couldn't let it go by without doing a little reminiscing.

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Speaker 1: So take yourself back to two thousand and six for

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Speaker 1: a second. B Day had just dropped. Pharrell was showing

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Speaker 1: us what a creative looked like before we had a

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Speaker 1: word for it. And somewhere in New York, one of

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Speaker 1: today's gifts was a teenager watching the Beyonce Experience on

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Speaker 1: YouTube over and over studying a superstar being born in

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Speaker 1: real time. Now jump to twenty sixteen. Lemonade Anti a

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Speaker 1: seat at the table, the last stretch of time when

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Speaker 1: it felt like we were all listening to the same

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Speaker 1: albums at the same moment. Together to help me make

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Speaker 1: sense of those twenty years and where black music goes

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Speaker 1: from here, I'm joined by two women who watched it

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Speaker 1: all happen from the inside. Shanti Da spent more than

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Speaker 1: twenty five years as a marketing executive at labels like

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Speaker 1: Le Face in Universal Motown before founding the mental health

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Speaker 1: nonprofit Silence the Shame. And Eba Annie is an award

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Speaker 1: winning journalist who has covered music and culture everywhere from

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Speaker 1: The New York Times to Okay Player. We get into

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Speaker 1: what streaming did to the album, why vulnerability became part

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Speaker 1: of the job for black women artists, how Rihanna rewrote

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Speaker 1: what a superstar could be, and why the next era

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Speaker 1: of black music might be unfolding in legos as much

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Speaker 1: as Atlanta Press Play and Let's dive in. Well, thank

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Speaker 1: you both so much for joining me. I'm so excited

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Speaker 1: to get into this conversation with both of you. So

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Speaker 1: when you think about two thousand and six versus twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 1: Where were you personally in your relationship to music. We'll

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Speaker 1: start with you, Shanzi.

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Speaker 2: Two thousand and six. I was at Universal Motown. I

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Speaker 2: was executive vice president of Marketing and Artists Development, working

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Speaker 2: on to Still via Rome And I was living in

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Speaker 2: New York City at the time.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and how would you describe your relationship to music

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Speaker 1: at that time?

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Speaker 2: Oh, gosh, I was still in the thick of it.

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Speaker 2: I would like to think one of the first few

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Speaker 2: African American women that had achieved the executive vice president's title.

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Speaker 2: From a marketing perspective, of course, it was the black

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Speaker 2: music side of Universal Motown that I was working on.

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Speaker 2: And also I was in the process of setting up

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Speaker 2: a live showcase in New York City that ended up

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Speaker 2: being like one of the hottest showcases in Manhattan for

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Speaker 2: like three years. I had two partners. It was called

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Speaker 2: R and B Live. We did it at a venue

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Speaker 2: called Spilight Live, right in the middle of Time Square.

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Speaker 2: We had everybody from Janelle Monet before she blew up,

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Speaker 2: beyond a jay Z used to come, all of the industry,

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Speaker 2: had Stephen Hill from beet Like. It was the place

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Speaker 2: to be and so we had a lot of artists

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Speaker 2: on the stage at that time, and so it felt

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Speaker 2: like from a live music perspective too, I was really

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Speaker 2: helping to push the culture forward from a live music perspective.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, it was fun times, okay.

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Speaker 1: And what about for you, Eba?

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Speaker 3: In two thousand and six, I was in high school.

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Speaker 3: I just started high school. I was finishing up middle school.

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Speaker 3: I just started high school. But I was obviously of

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Speaker 3: the youth demographics, so pop culture music was our entire lives,

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Speaker 3: it felt like at that time, because the only thing

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Speaker 3: we had to focus on was school, So the only

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Speaker 3: things we paid attention to were music and pop culture

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Speaker 3: in school.

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Speaker 2: So that's where I was that year. A lot of pivotal.

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Speaker 3: Music came out during those coming of age years for me,

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Speaker 3: and that was a time where I was getting a

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Speaker 3: sense of the world around me because I was born

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Speaker 3: and raised in New York City, come from an immigrant background.

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Speaker 3: My family is from Nigeria, but I grew up in

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Speaker 3: New York City. So obviously my connection to music and

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Speaker 3: particularly hip hop has been foundational on my time growing

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Speaker 3: up in this city. And I haven't left yet. I've

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Speaker 3: built my life in my career here. But at that time,

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Speaker 3: I do remember it was a pivotal time for me

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Speaker 3: because I was coming of age, becoming a teenager and

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Speaker 3: very invested in pop culture.

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Speaker 1: And then what about ten years later in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: you were older than a young adult, how would you

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Speaker 1: describe your relationship to music?

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Speaker 3: Then ten years later I entered the industry through journalism,

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Speaker 3: and that was about That was a few years after

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Speaker 3: I had.

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Speaker 2: Gotten my degree.

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Speaker 3: I went to NYU for journalism with a dual major

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Speaker 3: in Africana studies, so that social and cultural analysis lens

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Speaker 3: with that history degree attached to my journalism degree is

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Speaker 3: what made me pursue music and culture journalism. So at

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Speaker 3: that time I was already in the industry, but things

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Speaker 3: were picking up and things were changing dramatically because the

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Speaker 3: industry was changing dramatically, the music industry and the media industry.

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Speaker 3: So that was also a pivotal time for me as well,

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Speaker 3: and such a pivotal time in music as well.

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Speaker 1: And what about for you, Shanti in twenty sixteen, a

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Speaker 1: lot had changed for you as well.

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Speaker 2: So twenty sixteen is actually when I started my mental

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Speaker 2: health non profit, Silence to Shame. But I still had

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Speaker 2: a relationship to music. That is, when I celebrated my

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Speaker 2: twenty five years in the entertainment industry, we get a

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Speaker 2: celebration at my showcase in Atlanta. I had an event

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Speaker 2: for ten years in Atlanta called at Alive on the

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Speaker 2: Park with my partner Marlon Nichols, and it became one

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Speaker 2: of the premiere events for a lot of artists, both

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Speaker 2: seasoned right artists that we celebrate as well as new

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Speaker 2: artists performing and it was good times. I had too

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Speaker 2: short perform on stage for us for that celebration, so

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Speaker 2: that was really good I had. Also, I was coming

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Speaker 2: off the heels of doing some marketing for a lot

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Speaker 2: of I would say, like R and B artists, like

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Speaker 2: a Johnny Gill. I did some work with Kelly Price.

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Speaker 2: I did some work again with Vivian Green, and then

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Speaker 2: I also helped out Jeezy doing some marketing and that

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Speaker 2: was kind of like right at the time as I

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Speaker 2: was starting to transition to do more full time around

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Speaker 2: mental health. But I still have my hand in music

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Speaker 2: just because it I feel like it's in my DNA,

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Speaker 2: especially being back home in the State of the Land

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Speaker 2: where I grew up, helping to kind of shape the

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Speaker 2: culture of hip hop and working at a prestigious label

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Speaker 2: like the Face Records in the early nineties, I still

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Speaker 2: kind of had my hand and a lot of different

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Speaker 2: things in the music than here.

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Speaker 1: So, Evia, you already mentioned that two thousand and six

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Speaker 1: was like a groundbreaking year in terms of like the

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Speaker 1: records that were coming out, and I want to list

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Speaker 1: a few, and y'all tell me your reactions to hearing

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Speaker 1: this list. So in two thousand and six, we had

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Speaker 1: albums like Jay Dillas Donuts, Corrine Bailey Rayed self titled debut,

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Speaker 1: Neil's In my Own Words, Pharrell's In My Mind, Cassie

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Speaker 1: is self titled, Beyonce's b Day, and loup A Fiasco's

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Speaker 1: Food and Liquor. So when you hear this collection of

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Speaker 1: albums bitching together, what does it come up and bring

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Speaker 1: up for you? Wow?

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Speaker 3: Two of those albums that I think were most instrumental

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Speaker 3: for me as far as documenting that time personally, and

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Speaker 3: I think culturally we're definitely Beyonce Bide and Pharrell.

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Speaker 2: In My Mind. And Farrell was heuge.

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Speaker 3: For young people at that time, I would say teenagers

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Speaker 3: and young adults. Farrell was a new kind of blueprint

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Speaker 3: for what a musician, and I think sort of the

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Speaker 3: early iteration of what a creative is. Everyone used the

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Speaker 3: term creative now, and at that time we viewed Pharrell

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Speaker 3: as a trailblazer and someone who was merging all of

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Speaker 3: these different worlds together that.

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Speaker 2: We were not used to seeing being merged together.

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Speaker 3: And that was hip hop, high fashion, this suburban skateboard culture,

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Speaker 3: and just everything that seemed cool. So in my mind

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Speaker 3: was a very instrumental album I think for me at

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Speaker 3: that time. And then obviously Beyonce's B Day was instrumental.

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Speaker 3: That to me is my favorite Beyonce album. But that

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Speaker 3: album also helped me to see the makings of a

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Speaker 3: superstar at a time where I don't think we knew

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Speaker 3: we would have less and less superstars. So those two

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Speaker 3: albums I think were very formative in my music tastes

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Speaker 3: and my understanding of culture being shaped in real time,

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Speaker 3: seeing it from the perspective of a teenager.

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Speaker 1: What do you think about B Day? Kind of let

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Speaker 1: you know that we were on the brink of a

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Speaker 1: new superstar.

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Speaker 3: I think it was the aftermath. I think it was

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Speaker 3: her tour, the Beyonce experience. I had never seen anybody

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Speaker 3: perform like that. I didn't go to the tour, but

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Speaker 3: this was a time where YouTube was also new, and

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Speaker 3: that tour was uploaded to YouTube.

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Speaker 2: Sorry Beyonce, and I watched it on YouTube.

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Speaker 3: I watched it on YouTube and I kept rewatching it,

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Speaker 3: And to me, there was no artists at that time

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Speaker 3: that was.

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Speaker 2: New still as a solo artist.

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Speaker 3: Obviously we had known who she was prior, but there

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Speaker 3: was no artists at that time that I was seeing

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Speaker 3: sort of grow into this superstar in a real time,

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Speaker 3: someone that I had known as an artist my entire life,

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Speaker 3: from when she was in Destiny's Child in the nineties

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Speaker 3: until at that point.

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Speaker 2: It was so amazing to see.

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Speaker 3: That that difference from when I was a child to

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Speaker 3: that point, and I think she had grown musically as

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Speaker 3: an artist as well, and being able to track that

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Speaker 3: at such a young age I think made it even

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Speaker 3: more parent how paramount of an artist Beyonce is and

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Speaker 3: was at that time.

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Speaker 2: So I think those two albums for me stand.

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Speaker 1: Out and what about You Chanty When you hear that list,

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Speaker 1: what do you feel like they were defining culturally and musically.

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Speaker 2: So I'll kind of piggyback out first off, Beyonce so fine.

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Speaker 2: Fact again, I'm the auntie in the room. I remember

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Speaker 2: when Beyonce was in a group called the Dolls. It

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Speaker 2: was before death Andy's Child like. They were probably eleven

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Speaker 2: or twelve years old, and they were in the studio

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Speaker 2: in Atlanta and they were going to work with singer

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Speaker 2: songwriter Darryl Simmons, and so I'm not sure how they

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Speaker 2: transitioned out of that. That's why I remember meeting her.

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Speaker 2: And then fast forward, I was actually at Columbia Records

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Speaker 2: when Beyonce's first single came out as a solo artist,

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Speaker 2: Crazy in Love, and so again I was there at

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Speaker 2: the birth of that. I helped to kind of work

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Speaker 2: Crazy in Love a little bit in New York City

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Speaker 2: with some of my club friends and DJs, even though

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Speaker 2: I was doing marketing. You know, it was a group effort, right,

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Speaker 2: a group project, and so going out and getting a

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Speaker 2: lot of the DJs to play it. And then fast

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Speaker 2: forward to b day. Let me just say this about Beyonce,

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Speaker 2: she definitely out of this generation. Is one of the

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Speaker 2: artists that I feel like pattern herself behind the greats,

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Speaker 2: but was able to pull it off. I think we

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Speaker 2: all artists go out hoping to achieve supersardom and really

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Speaker 2: impact community and culture in a way that it's going

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Speaker 2: to be something that's exciting from the next generation. Right.

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Speaker 2: But Beyonce studied the greats and when you look at

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Speaker 2: this album, it had fourteen songs and seven videos. To me,

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Speaker 2: that's something Michael Jackson would do. And obviously we're seeing

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Speaker 2: that now with the greatness of how Michael is like

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Speaker 2: one of the most streamed artists now right after his

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Speaker 2: bio came out, and so it was really special watching

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Speaker 2: her and with singles like Drunk Love and Partition, like

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Speaker 2: she was really showing y'all like, Okay, I'm not just

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Speaker 2: some artists that's gonna have a couple of singles and

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Speaker 2: sell a couple records and string but she was here

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Speaker 2: to stay. And I loved how she used the creativity

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Speaker 2: of video and it's almost like she was taking you

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Speaker 2: through a movie and a soundtrack of her life. And

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Speaker 2: so she really instilled in culture and community that she

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Speaker 2: was the person to pattern behind, like everybody wanted to

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Speaker 2: be Beyonce at that point. Labels were trying to figure

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Speaker 2: out who is the next Beyonce, and I hate when

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Speaker 2: labels do that. Like wanting to find the next person

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Speaker 2: or this person of that person. But she really became

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Speaker 2: the blueprint of a female solo artist. And I mean

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Speaker 2: it was everything. And I actually did go to the

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Speaker 2: tour and just watching somebody like her with her work ethic,

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Speaker 2: knowing that she was in rehearsals. Right, It wasn't like

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Speaker 2: she just decided to drop an album and come out

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Speaker 2: and not have anything going, but like in terms of

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Speaker 2: fashion and the dancers and just everything that went into

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Speaker 2: this album, into the tour, and like you knew that

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Speaker 2: she was going to be like the next superstar.

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Speaker 1: So let's fast forward now to twenty sixteen because we're

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Speaker 1: wanting to get a read on what was going on

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Speaker 1: then as well. So in twenty sixteen, we have a

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Speaker 1: seat at the table Anti The Life of Pablo Lemonade,

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Speaker 1: Frank Ocean's Blonde, and Anderson Pox Malibu, Drake's Views, No Names, Telephone,

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Speaker 1: and a tribe called Quest returning to the scene. So

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Speaker 1: when you think about that time Shanty Music in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: with this collection of albums, what do you feel like

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Speaker 1: was being defined culturally and musically from these artists? Eva

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Speaker 1: any thoughts there?

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Speaker 3: Yes, By twenty sixteen, I was in the editorial trenches,

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Speaker 3: as I would say, because that's when I really started

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Speaker 3: in my career.

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Speaker 2: Well, it was a few years before that, but that's when.

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Speaker 3: I'd written a few pieces for The New York Times

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Speaker 3: Women in the World, and then.

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Speaker 2: I had a few music pieces out.

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Speaker 3: I was running this hip hop magazine based out of

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Speaker 3: Brooklyn at that time, and I also was starting to

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Speaker 3: work at Facebook on the trending news team at that time.

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Speaker 3: So I was in the editorial trenches all around as

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Speaker 3: far as cultural news, pop culture news, in culture writing.

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Speaker 3: And I think twenty sixteen has become this nostalgia driven

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Speaker 3: year for a lot of people my age in twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty six and I think it's because twenty sixteen was

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Speaker 3: that last era of monoculture where we still consumed things

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Speaker 3: in community, where there was still significant albums and artists

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Speaker 3: making an indebtible mark in the.

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Speaker 2: Music industry that we could all feel.

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Speaker 3: Versus now, audiences and new genres, new artists, new scenes

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Speaker 3: are siloed in micro communities. You can have an audience

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Speaker 3: of six million people and we might not know who

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Speaker 3: you are, but you still have an audience of six

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Speaker 3: million people. The difference between twenty sixteen and now was

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Speaker 3: we were all still collectively listening to specific artists, specific music,

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Speaker 3: and we remember where we were when these albums and

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Speaker 3: these artists came to form.

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Speaker 2: And you listed a few of those albums.

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Speaker 3: Lemonade by Beyonce is another one of those cultural moments

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Speaker 3: where not only did it sort of anchor this new

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Speaker 3: era of nostalgia for people's personal attachments to that album,

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Speaker 3: but it also changed the music industry. That album obviously

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Speaker 3: changed the structure of album releases.

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Speaker 2: It changed the structure of what we.

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Speaker 3: Expect from artists when they're about to roll out an album.

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Speaker 3: I think Beyonce set up precedent for a sort of

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Speaker 3: unique type of album rollout that not everyone can pull off,

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Speaker 3: and we've learned that the hard way. But I think

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Speaker 3: that album was extremely instrumental in this new era of streaming,

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Speaker 3: this new era of needing to be a visual auteur

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Speaker 3: on top of being a musical artist, the idea of

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Speaker 3: a visual album itself. That era of playlist culture proliferating

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Speaker 3: in twenty sixteen because of streaming and that peak era

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Speaker 3: of social media in which we used to watch, listen to,

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Speaker 3: and consume things at the same time and talk about

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Speaker 3: them in real time. All of that created a perfect

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Speaker 3: storm for albums of that time, including Lemonade, to be

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Speaker 3: remembered in the way that they're remember now ten years later.

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Speaker 3: And I think Beyonce's album Lemonade is a quintessential marker

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Speaker 3: of that shift.

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Speaker 2: The only thing I would have to add briefly is

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Speaker 2: Beyoncere's Lemonade album. It was such a celebration of black culture,

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Speaker 2: everything from HBCUs, from Black identity to sell them roots

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Speaker 2: and culture. And I think for me, having starting to

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Speaker 2: work at that time in mental health, it showed vulnerability

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Speaker 2: for black women, right. She gave us permission to talk

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Speaker 2: about the good and the bad, and we didn't always

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Speaker 2: see that, and particularly in the entertainment industry, we sometimes

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Speaker 2: cover up right when we're dealing with things, but Beyonce

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Speaker 2: kind of laid it all out there for us. But

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Speaker 2: she gave us as black women, permission to be okay

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Speaker 2: with not being okay and showed us how you can

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Speaker 2: go through the struggles but still go back and get

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Speaker 2: the support that you need. And even within your own families,

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Speaker 2: what does healing really look like within families, within communities

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Speaker 2: and they're just celebrating in the culture. I mean just

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Speaker 2: seeing Lemonade live and seeing all the nuances of the

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Speaker 2: different genres of music. I think she added a little

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Speaker 2: bit of soul, rock, country, hip hop. It was all

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Speaker 2: matched up into that one album, and that was really

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Speaker 2: special to see because I think it was already at

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Speaker 2: the time setting us up for Cowboy Carter right, and

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Speaker 2: we didn't even know it. But it just showed the

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Speaker 2: dimensions of beyonces and artists and it definitely had a

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Speaker 2: significant cultural impact, I think, both around music, health wellness

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Speaker 2: and culture. Aba.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned how you could now have like six million

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Speaker 1: followers and there still be people who don't really know

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Speaker 1: about you. So when you think about the ways that

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Speaker 1: discovery in particular has changed even from twenty sixteen to now,

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Speaker 1: what do you think about, like how artists are found

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Speaker 1: in like just the music industry in general.

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Speaker 3: The advent of streaming, I would say has directly impacted

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Speaker 3: music discovery all around. I think streaming platforms have definitely

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Speaker 3: helped with music discovery primarily because they lowered the entry

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Speaker 3: to the barrier for artists to have their music be accessible

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Speaker 3: to mass audiences with or without a label deal. So

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Speaker 3: I think streaming has definitely been instrumental in music discovery,

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Speaker 3: and you know, it's not all positive. There isn't an

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Speaker 3: understanding that it might feel oversaturated or it might feel

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Speaker 3: overwhelming with the amount of options from music and artists

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Speaker 3: that we have now, with all of the access we

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Speaker 3: have with streaming platforms, and there is a lot of

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Speaker 3: there's a wide gap in quality, i'll say, of music

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Speaker 3: across these streaming platforms. So I do think that people

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Speaker 3: might feel this sense of being inundated with music, But

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Speaker 3: at the root of that, I think it's just access

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Speaker 3: to more and having choice now that I think streaming

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Speaker 3: has brought. Of course, there are so many criticisms of

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Speaker 3: the proliferation of streaming and its effect on how we

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Speaker 3: consume music, how music is created now. Obviously, I think

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Speaker 3: we've been able to literally track how the structure of

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Speaker 3: songs have changed since the proliferation of streaming has come

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Speaker 3: into play, and we see shorter songs now. We also

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Speaker 3: even see some granular changes with songs being produced to

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Speaker 3: have these fifteen second sound bites so that they can

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Speaker 3: be clipped for virality across short form video platforms like

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Speaker 3: TikTok and Instagram, their songs literally being generated and created

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Speaker 3: so that they can be inserted into what is conducive.

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Speaker 2: For a social media algorithm.

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Speaker 3: So we've seen changes in how music is produced, changes

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Speaker 3: in how music is created and consumed. And also I

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Speaker 3: think that the positive side of the proliferation of social

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Speaker 3: media is that we've seen new fan bases develop globally

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Speaker 3: and it sort of decentralized the US as the main

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Speaker 3: music market. Look at what's happening in Latin America, look

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Speaker 3: at what's happening across the continent across Africa, with how

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Speaker 3: new genres of black music are being centered outside of

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Speaker 3: the US.

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Speaker 2: So streaming has just had such a paramount effect I

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Speaker 2: think on music across the board.

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Speaker 3: And with one of those albums that you mentioned that

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Speaker 3: came out in twenty sixteen, I have to think about

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Speaker 3: Drake Views, because I think Drake became one of the

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Speaker 3: defining architects of streaming era consumption because he was able

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Speaker 3: to crack the system at that peak moment with Views

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Speaker 3: being such a long album, it didn't even feel like

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Speaker 3: an album. That was one of the albums that set

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Speaker 3: the precedent for albums sort of being playlists in themselves,

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Speaker 3: which hacks the system and not needing to be playlisted

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Speaker 3: if you have an album that functions as a playlist.

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Speaker 3: So I think we got a lot of music that

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Speaker 3: sort of modeled itself after views and that long playlisting

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Speaker 3: structure in order to be conducive to how people look

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Speaker 3: for music on streaming and how people listen to albums.

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Speaker 2: From twenty sixteen until.

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Speaker 3: Now, unfortunately, it's not been a traditional holistic project experience.

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Speaker 3: It's more so been a sort of cherry picking of

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Speaker 3: songs and cherry picking of moods.

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Speaker 2: And I think that a lot.

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Speaker 3: Of albums have now been formatted to function for the

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Speaker 3: benefit of streaming. But now ten years later, we're already

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Speaker 3: seeing new changes. So I'm really curious to see what

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Speaker 3: that looks like in another ten years.

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Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break Chante, I'm really

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Speaker 1: curious to hear from you in terms of the marketing side, right,

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Speaker 1: So you have seen so many different iterations of the industry,

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Speaker 1: So what do you think about the changes, Like what

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Speaker 1: would it look like to market an artist now versus

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Speaker 1: what it look like kind of as you were wrapping

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Speaker 1: up your time in the Industry's.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely and so, first of all, I want to honor

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Speaker 2: where we're at, and I want to honor the younger

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Speaker 2: singers and songwriters and where they're at right now. I

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Speaker 2: don't want to be the old lady or the auntie

415
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Speaker 2: in the room complaining about how things are changing, because

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Speaker 2: like I live through Napster and saw what that did

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Speaker 2: to the industry. We were afraid of downloads. We thought

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Speaker 2: we wouldn't sell any records, but eventually you would have

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Speaker 2: to come and embrace it, right because technology doesn't stop

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Speaker 2: for anyone, and we see that now with AI and

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Speaker 2: everything that's happening. That's a whole different conversation. But what

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Speaker 2: are we, We'll say, And having come from working at

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Speaker 2: an artist like La Face Records, who we kind of

424
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 2: patterned ourselves as like the motown of the South right

425
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Speaker 2: and became a global label and organization, I do feel

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Speaker 2: like streaming had somewhat of a negative effect to a

427
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Speaker 2: certain degree on how music is marketed and how label

428
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Speaker 2: heads look at signing artists and the amount of money

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Speaker 2: that they either spend or don't spend on marketing artists

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Speaker 2: in this day and age, and so I feel like

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Speaker 2: the budgets aren't what they used to be there aren't

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Speaker 2: a lot of marketing executives and and and R executives

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Speaker 2: at the record labels now, and so for some of

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Speaker 2: these artists, you could come out and record a record,

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Speaker 2: even with your own laptop, right and have a hit record,

436
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Speaker 2: and it could be having millions and millions of streams,

437
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Speaker 2: but the artists might not be ready in terms of performing.

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Speaker 2: There's no interview coaching. You see artists and they go

439
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 2: and get success. And I won't name any names, but

440
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 2: some are artists experience almost overnight success literally with social

441
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 2: media and with streaming, but they're not prepared. And so

442
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 2: I just want to see more of take a little

443
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 2: bit from what we learned in the industry and couple

444
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 2: that with the technology and the ability to go direct

445
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 2: to consumers. Right, Because back in the day, if you

446
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 2: want it to be directly connected to an artist or entertainer,

447
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 2: you have to write them a letter or try to

448
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 2: go to the concert and meet them backstage. Now you

449
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 2: can DM them and they actually might even respond to you.

450
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 2: So in terms of going direct to consumer, all that's great.

451
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 2: It's good in terms of fan participation and support, but

452
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 2: there's a disconnect there in terms of real artist development.

453
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 2: And the money isn't there again, labels they feel like

454
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 2: now they don't have to do all of that. Now

455
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 2: they can get strings and they can make money. But

456
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 2: if these artists aren't writing the music or writing the

457
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 2: lyrics themselves, or owning any of the masters, you know,

458
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 2: it takes a billion strengths to even get a halfway

459
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 2: decent check. It's just the math isn't mathing for artists

460
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 2: and songwriters and producers to me in the era of

461
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 2: streaming now. And on top of that, I don't think

462
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 2: the artists are being developed like they should be. Sometimes.

463
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 2: You know, we would have a sixteen week marketing grid

464
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 2: from the time between we would talk about putting the

465
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 2: album out until they actually hit the market on Tuesdays

466
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 2: since we had new music Tuesdays, when albums used to

467
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 2: come out on a Tuesday, Beyonce. They can do a

468
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 2: tour and say I'm dropping an album tonight or tomorrow,

469
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 2: and it will go out and it will sell. And

470
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 2: that's good for those established artists, but for newer artists,

471
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,640
Speaker 2: you still need to rehearse. You still need to come

472
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,719
Speaker 2: up with a look and what's going to be your

473
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 2: hook from a fashion perspective and so I just feel

474
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 2: like marketing wise, some of these artists are at a

475
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 2: disadvantage and they aren't really able to like put their

476
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 2: craft together the way they should before hitting the market.

477
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: So ebah, I also want to follow up because I

478
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 1: think during that time in particular, like two thousand and

479
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: six twenty sixteen, we also saw and you were kind

480
00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: of at the helm of a lot of this, like

481
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: a lot of journalism, Like a lot of artists were

482
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: sitting down for interviews, see a lot of blog posts,

483
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: like it really feels like we saw a lot of

484
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: stories around artists that have defined like the music archive.

485
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: What do you think that looks like today? Like do

486
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: we have that same level of archive and if not,

487
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:15,719
Speaker 1: what does it look like?

488
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 3: That is such a great question because I've been in

489
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 3: journalism and media for twelve years now, and I remember

490
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 3: when I got my degree how different the industry was,

491
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 3: and how different even the study materials were, how different

492
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 3: the circumstances were at that time because at that time

493
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 3: everything had just pivoted to digital, so we were going

494
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 3: from print to digital, and then everything shifted from the

495
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 3: last iteration of traditional editorial in the digital format to

496
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 3: now a creator economy where you don't necessarily need to

497
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 3: come from having.

498
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 2: An editorial background, where.

499
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 3: You don't need to come from having a journalism degree

500
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 3: or journalism experience or experience in the world of writing

501
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 3: and cultural criticism in order to contribute to the media

502
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:21,479
Speaker 3: ecosystem around music and culture. So there's been two major

503
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 3: shifts that have happened since that era where I was

504
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 3: in the thick of it. Like you mentioned in twenty sixteen,

505
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 3: I was one of the journalists at the home of

506
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 3: Artist Interviews, overall critical analysis, essays, and cultural criticism, music

507
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 3: criticism in the form of writing and on air commentary.

508
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 3: The first time I actually appeared on air was during

509
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 3: the last season.

510
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 2: Of One of six in Park.

511
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 3: That was my first job out of college, was working

512
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 3: at BAT after having an internship there under Suz Brown,

513
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 3: being a production assistant and one of system part was

514
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 3: the main show that I worked on, and I ended

515
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 3: up on an episode of one O six in Park

516
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 3: right before they canceled the series, and it was actually

517
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 3: an episode with Barack Obama. I came on right after

518
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 3: Barack Obama. But what I think about from that time

519
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 3: of my career, just starting versus now, was one O

520
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 3: six in Park, for example, was one of the last

521
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 3: cultural mediums that we all consumed together in order to

522
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 3: find new music, see our favorite artists, hear our favorite music,

523
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 3: watch our favorite videos, and analyze and assess the culture

524
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 3: from a youth perspective, from just I think an interest

525
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 3: in music, no matter the genre. And that was one

526
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 3: of the last relics I think of music and media

527
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 3: that we had. It was one of six in part

528
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 3: trl MTV. That was when these networks, these magazines, these

529
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 3: editorial platforms were still kingmakers in the music industry and

530
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 3: being at the center of that, I would say twenty

531
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 3: sixteen through maybe twenty twenty two, I think it has

532
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 3: just been very interesting because we are in a creator

533
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 3: economy now where you don't have to be a journalist,

534
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 3: you don't have to be trained in cultural criticism to

535
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 3: be platformed, to be considered media by public figures, by celebrities,

536
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 3: by artists, even by institutions. Now you can be recognized

537
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 3: and awarded for creating content and not necessarily for being

538
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 3: a journalist or a writer, or an on air commentator

539
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 3: or a cultural critic. So the shift that I have

540
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 3: seen is from print to digital and then from digital

541
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 3: still being traditional editorial to now a creator economy where

542
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 3: anyone who loves music and has an opinion about music

543
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 3: but may not necessarily be equipped to practice journalism or

544
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 3: practice cultural criticism can now practice that and have a

545
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 3: say and have a voice in the music industry and

546
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 3: in the media industry. And obviously that comes with pros

547
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 3: and cons. But I think that's been the most glaring

548
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 3: shift right now. We've seen the shift from label backed

549
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 3: musicians to independent artists, and now I have seen the

550
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 3: shift from traditional media to independent, creator economy media. So

551
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 3: it's a huge difference, and it also affects how music

552
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 3: is documented because there's a lot more flaw in the

553
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 3: documentation and there's a lot more flaw in I think

554
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 3: the analysis of where we are culturally as well. But

555
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 3: I think that's that could be a whole other episode.

556
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have so many questions, and I'm like, oh,

557
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: I don't have time to ask you all of them,

558
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: But you bring up some excellent, excellent points. You know,

559
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: when I think about like the list that I read

560
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: for both two thousand and six and twenty sixteen, I

561
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: feel like there were very strong women voices, Like women

562
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,719
Speaker 1: gave us some incredibly black women in particular, gave us

563
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: some incredibly important music during those times. Do you feel

564
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: like the way that audiences relate to Black women artists

565
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: now is different than it was in two thousand and six.

566
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 2: In twenty sixteen, I do think that women in hip

567
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 2: hop have seen more of an increase. I would say

568
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 2: over the last ten to fifteen years, you have more

569
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 2: female rappers now. I'm definitely not again the consumer and

570
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 2: the target demo for a lot of the content that's

571
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 2: being released, but I will say that I think women

572
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 2: in hip hop have been accepted more. Even looking at

573
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 2: Cardi b being able to do selling out arena tours,

574
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 2: you hadn't always seen black female artists be able to

575
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 2: sell out arenas, and so I'm definitely impressed with that,

576
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,240
Speaker 2: and I do think that the culture in the community

577
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 2: is more open to hear any more women in hip hop. Yeah,

578
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 2: I just think that's important to add that at least

579
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 2: I feel like certain artists are now able to sell

580
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 2: out arenas. And maybe that is because of social media

581
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 2: in the direct contact with consumers and with a lot

582
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 2: of our African American creatives and new journalistic platforms that

583
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 2: have popped up right all around socials. Again, I just

584
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 2: think it's easier to sell records and to kind of

585
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 2: curate your community, if you will, these micro communities that

586
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 2: pop up amongst fan bases now and so I'm just

587
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 2: proud that women are able to start really reaping the

588
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:51,240
Speaker 2: benefits of having successful tours and being able to bring

589
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 2: home that type of money with platforms like Live Nation

590
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 2: and companies flight Live Nation. But I don't think that

591
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 2: was always the case, even in the two thousand or

592
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 2: the twenty ten decade. But I'm saying more of that now.

593
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:08,399
Speaker 3: And I would say as far as you mentioned the

594
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:13,760
Speaker 3: differences between how the world has been receptive to black

595
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:18,399
Speaker 3: women and music now versus then, I would say that

596
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 3: I think this came up. I think you mentioned this

597
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 3: that this sort of language of vulnerability is respected more

598
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 3: so now, I would say, and almost expected too because

599
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 3: of I think the examples set in twenty sixteen by Beyonce,

600
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 3: and one could even argue Rihanna with Anti, but twenty

601
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 3: sixteen having these powerhouse albums by women, from Beyonce with

602
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 3: Lemonade to Solange with a Seat at the Table, I'm

603
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 3: not sure if that came out in twenty sixteen or

604
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen, but that era or that aftermath of twenty

605
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:04,720
Speaker 3: sixteen and Rihanna with Anti, those are very very powerful

606
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 3: albums by women that were sort of unexpected by each.

607
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 2: Of those artists at that time.

608
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 3: But I think now, because we've been conditioned to that

609
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 3: sort of emotional storytelling, that fusion of personal narrative with

610
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 3: fictional narrative as far as the songwriting is concerned, those

611
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 3: thematic arcs, those emotional arcs in each of those albums,

612
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 3: I think now we've sort of been massaged into expecting

613
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,760
Speaker 3: that from our artists and wanting more from our artists.

614
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 3: So when we don't get that, I think we can

615
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 3: be super hyper critical of artists if they're not there

616
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 3: yet in their artistic journey.

617
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 2: I think, especially with Black women, people can.

618
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 3: Be hyper critical if they're just not performing to our

619
00:36:55,200 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 3: liking or performing to an expected position that they're supposed

620
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 3: to be at that point in their career. But I

621
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,479
Speaker 3: think that as far as how people have engaged black women,

622
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 3: I do see a lot more of an anticipation for

623
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 3: transparency and a welcoming of emotional transparency. The reactions are different.

624
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:18,479
Speaker 2: We can look at the.

625
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 3: Reactions we've seen publicly to a woman like MEGANE. Stallion

626
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 3: versus other artists who bear their emotions and bear their

627
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 3: struggles through their music. But I do think that the

628
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 3: public has become more used to hearing emotional storytelling through

629
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 3: music from black women, and hopefully it becomes safer for

630
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 3: black women to do that in the music industry and

631
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 3: feel supported outside of their music just being consumed.

632
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of that too had to

633
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 2: deal with the pandemic. I think we were all given permission,

634
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 2: if you will, to start talking more and sharing openly

635
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 2: about emotional health and wellness and platform type therapy for

636
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 2: black girls. Of course, eating the way even with silence

637
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 2: to Shane. Carrie Hilson first talked about her depression on

638
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 2: one of the panels that we did with silence to

639
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 2: Shane and looking at a summer walker right in her

640
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 2: talking about her social anxiety. So to your point, it

641
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 2: is definitely more accepted now, and that vulnerability is celebrated

642
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 2: amongst black women and even just the notion of black women,

643
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 2: whether that's musicians or lawyers or doctors or first ladies,

644
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 2: of always having to wear this cape and always having

645
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 2: to be on But there is something beautiful in vulnerability,

646
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 2: and it's celebrated now again when we do I think

647
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 2: we play sometimes on realistic expectations on our artists and

648
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 2: songwriters because we might be feeling some kind of way

649
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 2: that we want to now see that through all of

650
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 2: their music, right, So you want to be able to

651
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 2: have the fun, but then you also want to have

652
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 2: the emotional lyrics and music. But I think it is

653
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 2: definitely something that's going to be here to stay because

654
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 2: we're living in some really interesting times and as we know,

655
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 2: we look to our black women as the queens of

656
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,240
Speaker 2: the community and those that are going to obviously always

657
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 2: save us and have the weight of the community and

658
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 2: the shoulders of our community. So I think you'll continue

659
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 2: to see those narratives being told through music, through their

660
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 2: lyrics and through songwriting.

661
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: It does feel like a bit of a double edged sword, though,

662
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:21,800
Speaker 1: and I think this is what you were getting at Evia,

663
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: that it is often expected like this level of transparency

664
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: and vulnerability, and while I think it is very relatable,

665
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: I also don't feel like audience and fan bases always

666
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: like treat the creators with care after they share maybe

667
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: some very difficult things, and so it does feel like

668
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 1: a tightrope that black women artists have to walk in

669
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: terms of like, Okay, do I share this because I

670
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: know lots of people are experiencing this and this is

671
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,800
Speaker 1: my story, but also the backlash, especially with social media

672
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 1: being as active as it is today.

673
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 2: Just to reiterate both points, it is a double edshed sword.

674
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,760
Speaker 3: But again, it's so interesting how all of these coins

675
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 3: are so interconnected, because what we're seeing from fans and

676
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 3: even critics of music is that they want more from artists.

677
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 3: But when they get more, that accessibility makes the facade

678
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 3: of superstar and crumble. But then we also say we

679
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:20,760
Speaker 3: need new superstars. So the closer we get to learning

680
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 3: about these artists and their personal lives, and the more

681
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 3: open they are with their personal lives, we sort of

682
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 3: flip that and say that it hurts their artistry and

683
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 3: it hurts their positioning long term because we want these

684
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 3: sort of mythical superstars, But then we want these down

685
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,919
Speaker 3: to earth, super relatable artists who also bear their soul

686
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 3: to us and give us access to their daily lives

687
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 3: on top of consistent music and consistent visuals and consistent

688
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 3: touring and consistent merch. So I'm not sure if consumers

689
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,720
Speaker 3: know what they want that regard or maybe they want everything.

690
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,359
Speaker 3: But I can imagine if I were a woman mad

691
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 3: to music right now, how difficult that would be to

692
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,439
Speaker 3: keep up with, no matter the generation that I'm in,

693
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 3: as I'm a new artist or an older artist. I

694
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,879
Speaker 3: would imagine that is a very very very very long

695
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 3: title to walk.

696
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 2: It's a lot of pressure there, I think to your point.

697
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 2: And so when I was growing up in the eighties

698
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 2: and nineties, there was more of a mistique to our artists,

699
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 2: whether they were male or female, and I think that

700
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 2: helped artists like Prince or Michael Jackson or even lutheror

701
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 2: You wouldn't just be able to have that sort of

702
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 2: access with those type of artists, and the labels actually

703
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 2: promoted the mistique, right. We didn't want to oversaturate the

704
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 2: artists in media or too many appearances, because the mystique

705
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 2: was what actually helped to shape the artists and who

706
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 2: they were and build a mystery around them. And so

707
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 2: fans wanted more, but they couldn't get it. But now

708
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 2: to your point, fans kind of want it all. I

709
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 2: think we have to blame social media and technology on

710
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 2: that because it's like we want the instant gratification. We

711
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 2: want to be there right with them through every step

712
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 2: of the way. But then to your point, it shatters

713
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 2: what we think of, Oh my gosh, this was my superhero,

714
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 2: but now I see they're just like me. So are

715
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 2: they still really my superhero? And so it's almost like

716
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,399
Speaker 2: it's unfair pressure that's put on artists. And my heart

717
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 2: goes out to any creative that's out there trying to

718
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 2: figure out their lane and stay in their lane, but

719
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 2: also be able to share but then still keep a

720
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 2: little bit right because they don't have to bear their

721
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 2: entire souls. But we have put I think unrealistic expectations

722
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 2: on a lot of our creatives. And Chris Brown just

723
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 2: released a new album and of course the critics are

724
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 2: already going in and he posted something and I'm just

725
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,720
Speaker 2: kind of paraphrasing, but he was like, look, I've heard

726
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 2: what y'all saying. You know, hopefully everybody's not gonna like

727
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 2: the album, but hopefully y'all will eventually listen to it.

728
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 2: I'm not worried because people always had something say about

729
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 2: their albums, but they came around, they end up loving it. Right,

730
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 2: He ends up having the sold out tours, and so

731
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,280
Speaker 2: it's so unfair how we treat artists now. I think

732
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,760
Speaker 2: we love them, but we hate them at the same time.

733
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 2: And it's so many people out there putting pressure on

734
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 2: our black male and female artists, and so we just

735
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,879
Speaker 2: got to give him a break. It's not easy being

736
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,760
Speaker 2: an artist in this day and age, and the numbers

737
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 2: just aren't the same in terms of the dollars just

738
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 2: being put in to promote our artists, but our big superstars,

739
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,399
Speaker 2: like we're putting so much unfair pressure on them.

740
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:42,800
Speaker 1: I think more from our conversation after the break, Eba,

741
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:44,399
Speaker 1: I want to go back to something that you mentioned

742
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 1: because I feel like this would not be a great

743
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: conversation unless we addressed Rihanna. So she released A Girl

744
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 1: Like Me in two thousand and six, and then ten

745
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 1: years later, to your point, we got Anti. What do

746
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: you think that like long span and people have really

747
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,479
Speaker 1: critically helmed Anti and O it was like a really

748
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 1: defining moment in her artistry. What do you feel like

749
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: that that span of time really say it in terms

750
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: of her relationship to stardom and do you feel like

751
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: we could see another star kind of pop off in

752
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 1: the same ways that we feel like Rihanna did.

753
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 3: I don't think we'll ever see another Rihanna. I will

754
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 3: start there. I don't think we'll ever see another Rihanna.

755
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 3: I think she was directly responsible for the new kind

756
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 3: of superstar of today, and that is the artist who

757
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 3: is globally recognized, powerhouse, critically acclaimed, highly awarded artist, who

758
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 3: is also relatable, who is also accessible in so many

759
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:52,760
Speaker 3: different ways, but who is also aspirational. And I think

760
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 3: she is the archetype for this new kind of superstar

761
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 3: where you can be globally recognized or have a micro community,

762
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 3: but whatever you do as far as your skill set,

763
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 3: your talent, your style, your personality, it feels very accessible.

764
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 3: And I think that labels and her label marketed around

765
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 3: that as opposed to trying to build that inorganically. I

766
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 3: think they marketed around her appeal, which is having the

767
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 3: IT factor and being relatable and accessible. And her transition

768
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 3: from two thousand and six to twenty sixteen is incredible

769
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 3: because I was going to say only ten years, but

770
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,839
Speaker 3: that feels like such a long time now to have

771
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 3: a ten year run. By that time she was twenty eight,

772
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,839
Speaker 3: she had already broken so many records. I can't even

773
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 3: list every record in every accolade she received by that time,

774
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 3: but that felt like a culminating moment for her in

775
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:00,760
Speaker 3: her career because she had already done everything genre wise,

776
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 3: image wise, She'd won every award, and I think for

777
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 3: someone like her to have had so many private moments

778
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 3: be public and to have come of age from being

779
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 3: a teenager to an adult at that time almost thirty

780
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 3: in the public eye, I do think Anti was a

781
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 3: very pivotal album for her and for her fan base

782
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 3: and for the music industry because of how it came

783
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 3: out at that time, what was the platform that popped

784
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 3: up it was titled.

785
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 2: There were so.

786
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 3: Many changes and innovations in the music industry at the

787
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 3: time of Anti coming out, and I think there were

788
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 3: so many changes in Rihanna's personal career at that time

789
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 3: as well. So I do think she's like the last

790
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 3: era of a certain kind of superstar, but also the

791
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 3: first era of a new kind of superstar, and Anti

792
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 3: solidified that. Because, if I'm being honest, that is my

793
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 3: favorite Rihanna album. I think that is her best album,

794
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 3: but I also think it could be her last album,

795
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 3: and if it were her last album, it would be

796
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 3: an excellent last album because it represents number one, a

797
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 3: shift in the music industry, a closure in the music

798
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 3: industry and opening in the music industry, and a shift

799
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 3: in her career. So I think it was such an

800
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 3: instrumental album that came out at such an instrumental time,

801
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 3: and she is an artist that encapsulated two thousand and six,

802
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:34,280
Speaker 3: twenty sixteen, and in twenty twenty six and there's.

803
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 2: Not a lot of artists that can fall into that category.

804
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:42,280
Speaker 3: So I think that I'm curious to see what happens

805
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 3: in the next ten years with Rihanna, with Beyonce, with

806
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 3: all of their understudies as well in the industry, and

807
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:52,399
Speaker 3: I'm so curious to see how the industry changed, how

808
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 3: the media industry changes around music, how the music industry changes,

809
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,879
Speaker 3: Because like I said before, we're seeing shorter and shorter generations,

810
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,720
Speaker 3: so five years can be considered a generation at this point.

811
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 3: So I'm sure the changes we see are going to

812
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 3: be swift, and I'm curious to see what they look like.

813
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 1: Shantie. When you think about the next ten years, so

814
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 1: ten years from now, what do you feel like people

815
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,760
Speaker 1: will be looking back to this time in terms of nostalgia.

816
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: What from the music landscape will feel nostalgic to people

817
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: in ten years.

818
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 2: That's a great question. To your point, everything is moving

819
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:30,320
Speaker 2: so quickly, and with AI, it's going to be interesting

820
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,359
Speaker 2: to see how the entertainment industry embraces it, because I

821
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,839
Speaker 2: just saw that the Academy banned any AI actors from

822
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:40,320
Speaker 2: being able to win Grammys, and so the Recording Academy

823
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 2: is now really struggling trying to figure out how they

824
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:47,760
Speaker 2: move forward and still be able to support the rights

825
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 2: of real human artists and musicians. And so it's interesting.

826
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 2: I have to go back to the Michael movie because

827
00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 2: here we are, what forty years later after my release

828
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 2: probably the Bad Album, and he is experiencing stardom again

829
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 2: from the grave. And I think you can see from

830
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 2: the people that went out it was generational audiences. It

831
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 2: was people that not only grew up with Michael, but

832
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 2: it was I saw kids doing every move to thriller

833
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 2: there well, and I mean kids late eight to sixteen

834
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 2: showing up dressed like Michael, college students going to the movie.

835
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 2: And so I think we'll still reach back in to

836
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:31,359
Speaker 2: the Rihannas, to the Beyonces, and that nostalgia of those

837
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 2: artists will still be celebrated the Chris Browns of the world.

838
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 2: But I do think it is getting harder and harder

839
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 2: to build what we look at as traditional superstars. And

840
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 2: I think now when you look at artists like a Rihanna,

841
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 2: because they're big business, right, so their name and likeness

842
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 2: and music now becomes big business and they are able

843
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,280
Speaker 2: to take advantage of that. So even looking at Rihanna

844
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 2: with her beauty business and brand, she didn't really have

845
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 2: to go back and create new music. I think the

846
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 2: fan are like longing and really hungry for new round

847
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 2: of music. But she's like, I'm cool, I'm starting my family.

848
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 2: I'm happy, I got the billion going on on this side.

849
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 2: Maybe I'll come back and do new music. So I

850
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 2: don't know what the future of the business really holds.

851
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:19,240
Speaker 2: And if a lot of these artists, as they should

852
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 2: start investing in other things outside of music, do they

853
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:24,839
Speaker 2: still even really want to have the longevity of that.

854
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 2: I think what still will be a key factor for

855
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 2: music for musicians and artists moving forward is live touring.

856
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 2: That is, to me, what says the legacy of these artists.

857
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 2: It is what continues to build superstars because a lot

858
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 2: of people can create a song and it can get

859
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 2: millions of streams, but everybody can't perform live. That's what's

860
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 2: going to separate the superstars from just the regular folks

861
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 2: that put out music. I mean, I even had a

862
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:55,439
Speaker 2: friend who just created a song using is it Sooner

863
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 2: if I'm saying it correctly, which is like the AI

864
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 2: platform where you can essential create a song and you

865
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,879
Speaker 2: can get the voice, and you can mix it and

866
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 2: do everything you need to do right there in that app.

867
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 2: And so that's no disrespect, but this person doesn't live, eat,

868
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 2: and breathe songwriting. They didn't go to school for songwriting,

869
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 2: so it's just something they're doing for fun. So we

870
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 2: see these AI artists popping up, but they can't tour live.

871
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 2: And so as long as we make sure we keep

872
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:25,399
Speaker 2: supporting our artists going to the live concerts. We see

873
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 2: what happened with ticket Master and how they're gonna have

874
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 2: to hopefully charge less for these prices of the tickets

875
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:34,359
Speaker 2: and would continue to be able to let people go

876
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 2: and see some of their favorite artists. But that's what's

877
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 2: gonna set artists apart. And so you'll see the nostalia

878
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 2: of folks still wanting to go and to see their

879
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:47,279
Speaker 2: favorite artists perform. That's what's gonna keep the superstars going,

880
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 2: both domestically and globally. And to that point, that.

881
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 3: Just sparked the point in my head as we rap

882
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 3: considering the future of music, I think we have already

883
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 3: seen is what we're about to see, which is the

884
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 3: globalization of music. Since two thousand and six, obviously into

885
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:13,280
Speaker 3: two thousand and six and throughout since then, the US

886
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 3: is considered the dominant global force in music. And the

887
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 3: reason why is because of the Black American contributions to

888
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 3: American music, and that is why it's considered the dominant

889
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:28,800
Speaker 3: global music.

890
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 2: But now I think.

891
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:35,319
Speaker 3: We've sort of seen that black music innovation is no

892
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 3: longer centralized in the US, as people are paying attention

893
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 3: to markets outside of America where black music has always

894
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:47,760
Speaker 3: been created but is now finding flaeing in the Western world.

895
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 3: And those centers are Lagos, Johannesburg, obviously Kingston with the

896
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:58,799
Speaker 3: era of danceng and reggae. But right now, as we

897
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 3: have seen AfroB it's already become mainstream. Those markets are

898
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 3: on the continent, and that is because the world's youth population.

899
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 2: Is on the continent.

900
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 3: Seventy percent of Sub Saharan Africa alone is under the

901
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:17,359
Speaker 3: age of thirty. Sixty percent of the entire continent is

902
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 3: under the age of twenty five. So those are the

903
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 3: key demos of the people who shape and move cultures,

904
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 3: young people, and the continent hosts the world's largest demographic

905
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 3: of young people. So I have already been heavily involved

906
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 3: in the movement of afropop afrobeats becoming mainstream in America

907
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 3: through the coverage I've done over the last ten years,

908
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 3: and having seen how that developed. Now I can guarantee

909
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 3: that the future of superstars might not look the same

910
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 3: as what we've seen because they might not be in America.

911
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 3: Rihanna is also another great example of that who is

912
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 3: not from America, who became the blueprint of what a

913
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 3: global superstar looks like. So I can guarantee that there's

914
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 3: going to be this heightened awareness that the first and

915
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 3: last frontier is Africa. There's going to be a heightened

916
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 3: awareness of markets outside of the US and how to

917
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 3: merge markets and merge audiences and pull superstars from other

918
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 3: parts of the world into the American mainstream. And also

919
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:33,800
Speaker 3: just hopefully a less superficial interest in global sounds and cultures.

920
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,800
Speaker 1: That's such an important point. I really appreciate you bringing

921
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: that into this conversation. This has been such a fun conversation.

922
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,320
Speaker 1: I so appreciated the thoughts from both of you. Evia,

923
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 1: let us know where we can stay connected with you.

924
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 1: What is your website as well as any social media

925
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:48,840
Speaker 1: channels you'd like to share?

926
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 3: Yes, if you go to my website Evani dot com,

927
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 3: most of my work is there, from writing to on

928
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:56,839
Speaker 3: air and a bunch of other things. And you can

929
00:54:56,840 --> 00:55:00,400
Speaker 3: follow me on Instagram at Eva dot Ani I v

930
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 3: I E period An I, Twitter, Johnnie, Threads on Threads too,

931
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 3: TikTok I'm learning how to use it, but I'm on

932
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 3: tik tak Yhannie. I have a subside in full effect

933
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 3: as well, and it is about to be a few

934
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 3: things coming down the pipeline that's worth checking out. So

935
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 3: definitely check on my website and my instagram for updates.

936
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:26,799
Speaker 1: Perfect and what about you, Shanty So you.

937
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 2: Can find me at Shanty Doss four O four and

938
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 2: my website is Shanty Doss s A j N t

939
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 2: I d A S dot b I z and so

940
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 2: I have to take a moment to celebrate Eva. So

941
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 2: I started in the business literally when I was in

942
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 2: college in nineteen ninety one. I've seen a lot, from

943
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:48,360
Speaker 2: the days of NC Hammer to bvn CC winings, to

944
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:52,400
Speaker 2: working outcasts first record players, ball being right there, taking

945
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 2: Usher on his first tour dates in the early nineties,

946
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:58,840
Speaker 2: and working with Tony Braxton and doing marketing for prints

947
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 2: and you know, marketing and publicity went hand in hand, right,

948
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 2: And so I met a lot of journalists over the years,

949
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 2: and I've seen what has happened with the attack on

950
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 2: journalism and particularly lack journalists African American journalists both here

951
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:15,359
Speaker 2: and globally. The future is bright with you. You are

952
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 2: so intelligent, so knowledgeable, and I have not seen the

953
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:23,319
Speaker 2: real journalistic integrity from a music perspective. There's some great

954
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,719
Speaker 2: ones out there, I'm sure, but just even in terms

955
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 2: of me paying attention and hearing how you look at music,

956
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:31,280
Speaker 2: how you understand the past and the present in the future,

957
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 2: I just want to salute you, and I still have

958
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 2: great relationships with people in entertainment, but I will be

959
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:40,360
Speaker 2: here for you to help continue to uplift you in

960
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 2: the culture and what you're doing in your spot on.

961
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 2: I also want to shout out Toumabasa, who's done a

962
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:47,359
Speaker 2: lot in terms of afrobeats. He's a friend of mine,

963
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 2: I've known him since the MTV days and what he

964
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 2: has been able to do through YouTube and bringing the

965
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:55,399
Speaker 2: continent to America. And I do think that you will

966
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 2: find more global superstars emerging outside of the US, and

967
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 2: so it's exciting. But we do also have to pay

968
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 2: close attention to making sure that you have the right

969
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 2: team around you from a marketing and promotion perspective, and

970
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 2: I would love to see more of that grow. Maybe

971
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 2: they're labels that are birthed in the continent and you

972
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 2: see more independent labels coming up. I'm sorry, I know

973
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 2: I went over well you probably wanted to ask me,

974
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 2: But I think it's important that we married to the

975
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 2: generations and that we support one another. But we really

976
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 2: need real journalists to tell the story. It's more than

977
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 2: just a quick hit on TikTok or more than just

978
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 2: you know, a vertical thirty minute, thirty second clip on IG.

979
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 2: We still need real journalists to tell the stories of

980
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 2: these musicians and the way you so beautifully and eloquently

981
00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 2: spoke about the Rihannas and the Beyonces. It's super important

982
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 2: that we have someone who understands the personal and professional

983
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 2: nuances and that we share that out to the fans.

984
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 2: So thank you and keep doing what you're doing. So

985
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 2: you know how I feel about you. I absolutely love

986
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 2: you and all that you do. So thank you. Thank

987
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 2: you for having me on the show.

988
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Shanti, and please tell us where we can support

989
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 1: Silence the Shame as well.

990
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 2: Yes, so you can visit our website at www dot

991
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 2: Silencedshame dot com, follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and I

992
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 2: don't think we might be on threats at Silence the Shame,

993
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 2: and just make sure that you all still know that

994
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 2: it's okay not to be okay. And I have so

995
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 2: many of these conversations with a lot of my music colleagues,

996
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 2: and we've partner with folks like Sony Music Publishing and

997
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:31,320
Speaker 2: other organizations be in my within the music industry, and

998
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 2: we want to continue to foster a relationship that allows

999
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 2: artists and musicians, especially black and brown people, to know

1000
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 2: that it's okay to get help and that support is

1001
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 2: out there.

1002
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:43,040
Speaker 1: Beautiful. We will be sure to include all of that

1003
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 1: information in our show notes. Thank you both for spending

1004
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 1: some time with us today. I really appreciate it.

1005
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you so much.

1006
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that Shanty and Eber were able to

1007
00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:00,479
Speaker 1: join me for this wonderful conversation. To learn more about

1008
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 1: them and their work, be sure to visit the show

1009
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:05,480
Speaker 1: notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash session for

1010
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 1: sixty eight and don't forget to text this episode to

1011
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 1: two of your girls right now and tell them to

1012
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 1: check it out. Did you know that you could leave

1013
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 1: us a voicemail with your questions and suggestions for the podcast.

1014
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 1: Drop us a message at Memo dot fm slash Therapy

1015
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:21,520
Speaker 1: for Black Girls and let us know what's on your mind.

1016
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 1: We just might feature it on the podcast. If you're

1017
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 1: looking for a therapists in your area, visit our therapist

1018
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 1: directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. Don't

1019
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 1: forget to follow us on Instagram at Therapy for Black Girls,

1020
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 1: and you can join us on Patreon for exclusive updates,

1021
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 1: behind the scenes content, and much more. You can join

1022
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 1: us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This

1023
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:48,920
Speaker 1: episode was produced by Elise Ellis Indechubu and Tyree Rush.

1024
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 1: Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much

1025
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 1: for joining me again this week. I look forward to

1026
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 1: continuing this conversation with you all real soon.

1027
00:59:57,720 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 2: Take good care

1028
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 3: The beat pench foot pet, the pest wood