1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: My Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: My Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow 3 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: and today we're beginning a series of episodes on the 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,319 Speaker 1: reptiles of the Galapacos Islands. And rob this is not 6 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: a topic we just landed on randomly. This is related 7 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: to your recent travels, right. Yeah. I had the great 8 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: pleasure and the good fortune to visit some of the 9 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: islands of the glap Coos Archipella go back in October. 10 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: It was a fantastic family trip that we've been planning 11 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: for a long time and we meant to do before 12 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: the pandemic and then obviously we had to reschedule. But yeah, 13 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: this is this is one of the top trips I've 14 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: ever had the privilege to make. And now, certainly I 15 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: was visiting as a tourist, but but one of the 16 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: things about the Glapos Islands that I love is so 17 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: much of the tour is um there is about the 18 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: natural beauty of the place. It's about the environments, it's 19 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: about the animals and um. And so if you're you're 20 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: going all the way to the Galapagos Islands. You you 21 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: probably want to see some reptiles, you probably want to 22 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: see some birds, etcetera. And they really facilitate that. The 23 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,839 Speaker 1: local guides are are all terrific, all the ones that 24 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,559 Speaker 1: that I interacted with, a very knowledgeable of everything going 25 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: on there. And yeah, it was a trip just unlike 26 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: any other, especially when when observing these various creatures, because 27 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: it was kind of like being a Disney princess, like 28 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: being in a Disney like a Disney princess scene in 29 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: a movie, except instead of the princess being surrounded by 30 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: cute squirrels, bunnies and birds that are singing, you're just 31 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: constantly surrounded by this wonderfully bizarre cast of reptiles and 32 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: elaborate birds, sea lions. It's and it's unlike too. I 33 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: have to say, it's unlike the vibe that I've encountered 34 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: in places like the Grand Canyon, where they'll be wild 35 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: animals there that are protected and so accustomed to humans 36 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: that the humans can get like unnaturally and alarmingly close 37 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: to those animals. There's a proximity to the animals on 38 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: the Galapicos Islands that um that that that feels less 39 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: artificial but also equally magical, if that makes sense. Again, 40 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: not to say that you should attempt to touch any 41 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: of the animals there or or or or infringe upon 42 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: their personal space in any way, but there's this, Yeah, 43 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: there's this feeling of proximity to nature that makes you 44 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: feel like you are David Attenborough in a David Attenborough documentary. Um, 45 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: you know, creeping up for a close look at this 46 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: animal or another, and maybe you are the camera lens. 47 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: And I wonder if the difference with the Grand Canyon 48 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: thing would be the difference between animals that are unfortunately 49 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: habituated to human presence in all the wrong ways, like 50 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: expecting you to have food, the calorie rich food sources 51 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,119 Speaker 1: and stuff, so they'll come up to you looking for that, 52 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: versus a place where animals don't seem to flee from 53 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,639 Speaker 1: humans because there they come from many generations of animals 54 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: without natural land predators. Yeah. Yeah, and uh, I believe 55 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: that is the case with the Clap of Coasts. So 56 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: let's let's introduce everybody to the to the clap Coost Islands. 57 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: If you're not familiar with the clap of Coost Archipelago, 58 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: it is a chain of islands in the eastern Pacific Ocean, 59 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: roughly nine sixty six kilometers or six hundred miles off 60 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: the coast of Ecuador. It consists of thirteen major islands 61 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: a few smaller islands, and these were all formed by 62 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: repeated volcanic eruptions. The process here is similar to that 63 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: which produced the Hawaiian islands, which we've discussed in the 64 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: show before. So they're not formed all at once, but 65 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: in a chain due to underlying volcanic activity berthing mountains 66 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: and islands out of the ocean floor. So, as with 67 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: the Hawaiian islands, the islands here and the Galapaos are 68 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: geologically quite young, and their individual ages vary. Now, Joe, 69 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: I'm not sure what age ranges you've come across for 70 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: them when we get into the geologic age of the 71 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: galapaost islands, but I've seen it very a bit. The 72 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: Galapa Ghost Conservatory says quote probably no more than five 73 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:32,359 Speaker 1: million years with the younger volcanically active westernmost islands perhaps 74 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: as young as hundreds of thousands of years old, but 75 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: the idea that none of the islands there today are 76 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 1: are more than five million years old. According to some 77 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: of the dates that I was looking at me at 78 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: least sighted dates, but just sort of casting a wide net. 79 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 1: I did see some other dates out there, so um, 80 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: you know, I can only speak to the ones I'm 81 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 1: sighting here. Well, estimates very a bit, but it also 82 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: depends on what you're counting as the Galapa Coost Islands. 83 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 1: For example, I was reading a passage in a book 84 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: Galapagos a Natural History, second Edition by John Creature and 85 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: Kevin Laughlin from Princeton University Press. That new edition is 86 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 1: just just out this year in two and there is 87 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: a section in this book where the authors put forward 88 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: the possibility that some species on the islands, including the 89 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: famous giant tortoises, may have inhabited the Galapagos since before 90 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: any of the Galapagos Islands existed. Now, how could that 91 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: be possible, Well, here's what they argue. If you look 92 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: around the area of the archipelago, especially east of the 93 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: existing islands, you will see what are called sea mounts, 94 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: which are submerged islands. They are areas where the ocean 95 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: floor rises up to form a mountain, but that mountain 96 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: does not break through the surface of the water, so 97 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 1: it's not an island. From our perspective, but it's sort 98 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: of like an island just beneath the water. Now, what 99 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: are these sea mounts in the eastern part of the archipelago. Well, 100 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: Creature and Laughlin right that they are quote eroded volcanic islands, 101 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: and that they are possibly the original ancestral Galapagos. So 102 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: they were once perhaps islands that did break above the surface, 103 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: but have eroded over time. Uh and the the authors 104 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: here site a group of oceanographers and geologists led by 105 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: a researcher named D. M. Christie, who put together some 106 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: dates for these seamounts and said that the dates ranged 107 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: from between five to nine million years, which is older 108 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: than any of the existing Galapagos islands today. So to 109 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 1: read from this passage quote, as Christie's team pointed out, 110 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 1: if the original Galapagos islands formed as much as nine 111 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: million years ago, there has been more time for colonization 112 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: and subsequent evolution than once believed. This is colonization by 113 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 1: non human animals. There may well have been tortoises on 114 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: the islands for longer than any of the present day 115 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: islands have been in existence, given regular albeit accidental dispersal, 116 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: new islands forming over the hot spot will be colonized 117 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: even as old islands a road and disappear beneath the 118 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: sea from whence they came. So normally you're talking about 119 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: island an island group, you would imagine that, Okay, well, 120 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: the earliest it could have been colonized by animal species 121 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: is whenever the islands we have today began. But in 122 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: the case of the Galapagos, uh, A lot of the 123 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: evidence of the earliest colonization by animals could be under 124 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: the waves. It could just be lost because those islands 125 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: aren't there anymore. M Yeah, there's sort of the lost 126 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: animal kingdoms of the globos potentially. Now when we're we're 127 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: talking about the the modern day Galapkos islands, uh, some 128 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: of the main ones, just to mention them real quick. 129 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: You have Isabella, which is the largest. You have Santiago, Uh, Fernandina, 130 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: you have Santa Cruz, you have San Cristobil. I only 131 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: really visited Santa Cruz and San Cristobul and a couple 132 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: of smaller, unoccupied um by humans islands that were quite fascinating. 133 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: And one of the things about these islands, and you've 134 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: often encountered this with with volcanic highland formations is that 135 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: they're defined by steep out elevation changes and the resulting 136 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: islands that contain multiple microclimates due to this, So a 137 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: visit to even a single Glabacos island is an encounter 138 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: with multiple and varied ecosystems. Right, So you'll get different 139 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: climates and different vegetation and so forth at different elevations 140 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 1: on the island. So uh and and that type of 141 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:42,119 Speaker 1: like what vegetation is flourishing therefore might vary with the seasons. 142 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 1: So when the rainy season comes, you might get more 143 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: blossoming of vegetation in the lower areas, but then other 144 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: times animals might find the most fruitful foraging up in 145 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: the highlands. Yeah. Yeah, So it's any one of these islands, 146 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: you'll have, you know, have sort of desert environments, you'll 147 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: have highland lush environments, you'll have coastal and Ironman's and 148 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 1: these are these are This is one of the reasons 149 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 1: that these islands are often singled out historically, but even 150 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: in modern research is kind of a laboratory of evolution. Now, 151 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: I'm going to keep referring back to Hawaii a little 152 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:14,599 Speaker 1: bit for for a while, because I think it's a 153 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,079 Speaker 1: nice sort of touchtone to compare, especially since we've we've 154 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: talked about those islands on the show before as well. 155 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: Um So when it comes to Hawaii, as we've discussed before, 156 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: you have such geographic isolation that with those islands, so 157 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: there are actually no native land reptiles or amphibians there. 158 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: So anything in the categorization of reptiler amphibian that you 159 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: find there were introduced by subsequent human arrivals by boat 160 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: or ultimately air. That's the Hawaiian Islands. We don't have 161 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: the same situation with the Glabcost Islands for a few 162 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: different reasons. So as far as humans go, first human 163 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 1: contact with Glavicos comes a bit later. We're talking about 164 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: fifty five versus Hawaii's betwe Queen. And also Hawaii is 165 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: a greater distance from the nearest continental land mass and 166 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:10,959 Speaker 1: I shouldn't know that, I think I pointed this on 167 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: the show before, But there is some dispute on whether 168 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: the Inca ever reached the island, but we can be 169 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:21,439 Speaker 1: certain that Europeans reached the island in yeah, exactly three 170 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: hundred years before Darwin did. By the way, yeah, thank 171 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: thank so. The story of the first confirmed human landing 172 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: on the Galapagos is very interesting, so I wanted to 173 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: tell it here. There was this Spanish clergyman named Thomas 174 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: de Borlonga who was a bishop. He eventually served as 175 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: the bishop of the Colony of Panama, and I've read 176 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: it alleged in several sources that Burlongo was responsible for 177 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: introducing bananas or plantains to the New World, which is 178 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: weird because despite how much we associate bananas with the 179 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: Caribbean and South America, they are originally native to Southeast Asia. 180 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: So it is alleged that this guy is responsible for 181 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: bringing bananas over, but I'm not sure what the original 182 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: source of this claim is. Anyway. In five Blonga was 183 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: traveling by ship from Panama to Peru to help sort 184 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 1: out some kind of horrible sounding squabble between the conquistador 185 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: Francisco Pizzarro and another conquistador over land and spoils after 186 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: their conquest of the the Inca Empire. So Berlonga is 187 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: on the way down to try to help sort this out, 188 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,839 Speaker 1: but as his ship is traveling south along the coast 189 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: during the first half of the journey, it is suddenly 190 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: struck by a dead calm that prevents the ship from 191 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: sailing further, and then it gets dragged far off course 192 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: out to see by strong ocean currents, and just when supplies, 193 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: including fresh water, are about to run out, the crew 194 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 1: sites land. Their prayers have been answered, but like so 195 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: many early visitors, the Spaniards are almost instantly dejected by 196 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: what they find. The first island where they land is 197 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: found to have not a single drop of fresh water, 198 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: and there's also no pasture where their horses can graze, 199 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: just a bunch of giant tortoises and weird iguanas. But 200 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: there were other islands nearby, so the crew tried to 201 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: sail to another one to continue the search for water. Unfortunately, 202 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: on the way they were once again be calmed and 203 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 1: could not sail for several days, while just languishing there 204 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: on the ship, nearly dying of thirst. Finally the wind 205 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: picked up again and they were able to reach a 206 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,959 Speaker 1: second island, where once again they found no fresh water. 207 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: They tried to dig a well, but when they struck groundwater, 208 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: they found it to be as bitter as the sea. 209 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: And here I want to read from the retelling of 210 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: this story by the famous naturalist William bbe in his 211 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: book galapagost World's End, A published nine BB rights. In 212 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,839 Speaker 1: their extremity, they had recourse to a plant which has 213 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: saved many a thirsty man and animal, And by chewing 214 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: the fruit and juicy stalks of the cactus, they kept 215 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: themselves alive. They took a page from the tortoise playbook there. Yeah, uh, 216 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: not all withstood these privations. One man and two horses 217 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: died of thirst. And so the first grave on the 218 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:25,839 Speaker 1: Galapagos was dug. Sunday came and the bishop celebrated high 219 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,439 Speaker 1: Mass on those desolate shores, where as he said, quote, 220 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:33,679 Speaker 1: it looked as though God had caused it to rain stones, 221 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: brutal doom metal bishop uh. And then Babe goes on sea. 222 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: Lions slipped through the creaming surf and looked curiously at 223 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: the little group of strange beings and long winged seabirds 224 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: poised and swooped above the cross and the Spanish flag 225 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: planted side by side among the cactus and thorny scrub. 226 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: So I think Babe has taken a little liberty with 227 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: the storytelling there, but all plausible, you know, given the 228 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: given the local of flora and fauna. Yeah, desolate beaches, 229 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: weird sea lions hanging about, Well, I guess they sea 230 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: lions generally described her as weird. They would have certainly 231 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: been exposed to sea lions already, But in my book, 232 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: sea lions are inherently strange but also very amusing to watch. 233 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: They're just playfully rolling about while these people have church 234 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: dying of thirst. So finally, after the worship service, the 235 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: Spaniards did find some small amount of fresh water. I've 236 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: seen what they found alternately described as a spring water 237 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: and as little pools collected in cup shaped depressions in 238 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: the rocks. And using this water, either the spring water 239 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: or the rock pools, they filled up their containers and 240 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: they departed again for the coast of Peru. Now. Burlonga 241 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: made a number of observations while on the island, writing, 242 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: according to an eight eight four translation of his letters, 243 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: that the animals of the Galapagos were quote so silly 244 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: that they not know how to flee uh, and that 245 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: as a result, wild animals were easily caught in the hand. Well, 246 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: that does match up, I think with the reality of 247 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: visiting the Glabicos Islands even today. Not that you should 248 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: be chasing any of the animals and certainly not catching 249 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: them in the hand. But yeah, there is this, like 250 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: I said, there's this sense that, um like, they don't 251 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: necessarily understand what we are and they're not threatened by 252 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: us unless we get too close, and then a lot 253 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: of these animals will let you know. So, yeah, don't 254 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: don't get too close to the sea lions wherever you 255 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: find your sea lions. Don't get too close to the 256 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: tortoises of the iguanas. Now, Rob, you mentioned that the 257 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: tourism at the Galapagos today is almost entirely centered around 258 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: the islands natural beauty and biological and ecological significance. You know, 259 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: this is a place where you go to see the 260 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: natural landscape and the flora and fauna. You're not going 261 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: there to see to go to six Flags Galapagos, right right, Um, Yeah, 262 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: and yeah, I mainly mean, yeah, you're not gonna find that. 263 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: You're not gonna find. I didn't really see much in 264 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: the way of like a party boat kind of culture 265 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: that you find in a lot of locations. It's, um, 266 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: you know that there is there is culture there. There's 267 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: some some great restaurants, there's there's great local culture and 268 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: the people who live there. Uh. We were on the 269 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: whole very friendly and uh and I loved interacting with 270 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: them quite a bit. But yeah, it's when people go 271 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: to the Galapacos. I mean, the main selling point, the 272 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: big deal for for everyone seems to be the natural 273 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: world that is available to you there. And despite this 274 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: modern appreciation for the natural beauty and wondrous ecological significance 275 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: of the Galapagos, a recurring theme among early visitors is 276 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: a reaction exactly the opposite. So in the novel Galapagos, 277 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: Kurt Vonnegut wrote that the early Spanish explorers quote did 278 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: not claim the islands for Spain anymore than they would 279 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: have claimed Hell for Spain. M I haven't read this novel, 280 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 1: but I did see it in bookstore. There was a 281 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,919 Speaker 1: nice bookstore on one of the islands and the Collapacos, 282 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: and they had it there. They were probably had several 283 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: Darwin related books, and then they had Vanagats Glapacos, and 284 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: I was tempted to pick it up, but then I 285 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 1: was like, I don't know if I'm in the mid 286 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: for post apocalyptic literature at the moment. I've actually never 287 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: read that one either, but so yeah, it just seemed 288 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: like the Spanish were not very interested for a while. 289 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,439 Speaker 1: There were apparently no notable mineral riches to mine, at 290 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: least that they were aware of, uh, no people living 291 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 1: there to conquer or enslave. There was very little fresh water, 292 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: so the Spanish just did not seem very interested in 293 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: these islands. And during the seventeenth century it seems like 294 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: the Galapagos largely served as a base for people who 295 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 1: didn't want to be found, for pirates and privateers. Privateers 296 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 1: would attack Spanish ships to steal the gold that the 297 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,360 Speaker 1: Spanish had stolen from the Incas, or just pirates who 298 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 1: attacked and rated coastal settlements on the mainland. Yeah. Yeah, 299 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: when when it comes to the human history of the 300 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: clab because it's easy to sort of think, oh, well, Darwin, 301 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: uh and then you sort of fast forward to today. 302 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: But yeah, there's a lot of bloody history there. It 303 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: was this It was an extreme location that, like you said, 304 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: I didn't have a lot seemingly to offer except as 305 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 1: a place of refuge for people engaged in various bloody activities. 306 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: Sometimes it seemed like a place for utopia, utopian ideals, 307 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,439 Speaker 1: and um, of course those sorts of ventures don't always 308 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: turn out well either. So yeah, there's there's a very 309 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,640 Speaker 1: interesting human history there that is not all just bird 310 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: watching by any means. Uh. Though, continuing the theme of 311 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 1: like the the lack of appeal of the islands too 312 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 1: many people who first arrived there, Charles Darwin himself wrote 313 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: of his first impression of San Cristobal Island that quote, 314 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: nothing could be less inviting. That's that's that's funny because 315 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: they're on Sant Christoble Island. You know, there's like a 316 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:08,239 Speaker 1: statue of of of Charles Darwin in the ship with 317 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: his hand out and I had I got my picture 318 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,199 Speaker 1: made with this, of course, but there, yeah, there statutes 319 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: of Darwin all over the islands. Nice. Um now, well, yeah, 320 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, Darwin warmed up, you know, he 321 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: there's a lot to learn there. But but yeah, apparently 322 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:27,160 Speaker 1: first setting eyes on it, he was like not cool. Yeah, 323 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 1: that's not the quote that's like on a plaque. Besides this, 324 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: h Now, regarding uh, this story about Burlonga's accidental landfall 325 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: in the Galapagos being the first confirmed human visit, it 326 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 1: is important to stress that this is the first visit 327 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: by humans were sure about but They're all kinds of 328 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,719 Speaker 1: interesting arguments about whether or not others had been there before, 329 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: and their theories of contact regarding the Inca's Pacific peoples 330 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 1: and so forth. But I think all of these are 331 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: speculative and the the evidence is questionable there. There was 332 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: certainly no permanent human settlement in pre Columbian times, and 333 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: the earliest arrivals by humans appeared to be by accident. Yeah, 334 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: you get into that situation though, where if earlier people's 335 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: had come there, they probably wouldn't have stuck around, and 336 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: what would they have left behind, what evidence would there be? 337 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: So yeah, we're left to speculation. Now, coming back around 338 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: to uh, the reptiles, which is going to be the 339 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 1: main thing we're talking about in these episodes. Um. Again, 340 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: the Hawaiian Islands no native reptiles, but we have these 341 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 1: fascinating examples of reptiles on the Galapacos Um. So while 342 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 1: while while reptiles never had the chance to to reach 343 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 1: the Hawaiian Islands on their own, the Glaphicos Islands are 344 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: in just the right position. It seems to have been 345 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: gifted some wandering um lost at sea reptiles. Uh. And 346 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 1: yet at the same time, isolated enough that they were 347 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 1: able to evolve their unmolested for a very long time. Um. 348 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: So it's kind of fascinating to think about that. Like, 349 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: if they had been in any other location, you know, 350 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: there might have been a situation where, yes, humans would 351 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: have found this place and colonized it much earlier. It 352 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,679 Speaker 1: might be in a position where these reptiles would not 353 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,199 Speaker 1: have reached it of their own power or by the 354 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: power of wind and water, which seems to be the case. 355 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: I think in the main examples of terrestrial reptiles reaching 356 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: the Galapagos Islands, they tend to involve rafting. They tend 357 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: to involve animals being um, just swept out to see 358 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: via rivers in South America. And then you know, a 359 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 1: number of those animals are going to perish, but some 360 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: of them are going to find themselves cast upon a 361 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: deserted island, and from there they begin to find ways 362 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: to survive and these new forms evolve. Well, this sounds 363 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 1: like a perfect transition to the marine iguana. Robbert, you ready, Yeah, 364 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 1: let's talk about the marine iguana. Probably not the most 365 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: famous denizen of the islands, but at least number two. Yeah, yeah, 366 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 1: and certainly maybe the most uh salient in my brain 367 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: because specifically, to come back to Darwin, Charles Darwin's discussion 368 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: of the marine iguana or scientific name ambly Rinkus Chris 369 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 1: Tatis and the Voyage of the Beagle has long stuck 370 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 1: in my head. So of course, the Voyage of the 371 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: Beagle is the common name used to refer to the 372 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: published writings of Charles Darwin after his sales on on 373 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: the HMS Beagle with Captain fitz Roy and this, uh, 374 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 1: this chapter on the Galapagos in the Voyage of the 375 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: Beagle is very famous, but the subsection on the marine 376 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: iguana has long stuck in my head, notably for the 377 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: weird disrespect with which Darwin treats these animals. Uh. So 378 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: I want to read a few selections as we go 379 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: about here from this passage in the Beagle with some 380 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 1: abridge mints. But to start off, this is what Darwin 381 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: says talking about the marine iguana. It is extremely common 382 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: on all the islands throughout the group and lives exclusively 383 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: on the rocky sea beaches, being never found at least 384 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: I never saw one even ten yards inshore. It is 385 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 1: a hideous looking creature of a dirty black color, stupid 386 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: and sluggish in its movements. Uh. And in his journal 387 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: he refers to them initially as quote, large, disgusting, clumsy lizards. Well, 388 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: I mean they do lay around in clumps um, which 389 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: I could imagine some seeing this as being kind of 390 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: gross looking. But in the same in this, on the 391 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: same note, the way they kind of lounge around. Sometimes 392 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: they seem oddly human in the way like one al 393 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: sometimes have an arm slung over the shoulder of another. 394 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: Like it's like it's too like it's an old married 395 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: couple staring out at the sunset or something. Puppy pile. Yeah, yeah, 396 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: kind of a puppy pile. And and there is kind 397 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: of an awkwardness to them sometimes when they move around 398 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,479 Speaker 1: on land. But I don't know, that's kind of charming 399 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: more than anything. So early chroniclers often used the same 400 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: kind of terms. They call this animal ugly, hideous. Some 401 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: of them make bizarre value statements, such as comparing them 402 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: to devils or imps of darkness. Uh. Darwin himself, in 403 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,679 Speaker 1: The Beagle quotes a description by a previous author, a 404 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: Captain Colnett, who visited the Galapagos, who says, in the 405 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: part of his work that Darwin quotes, quote they go 406 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,919 Speaker 1: to sea in herds of fishing and sun themselves on 407 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:42,640 Speaker 1: the rocks, and maybe called alligators in miniature and elsewhere. 408 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: Colne marveled at their ugliness, writing quote, so disgusting is 409 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 1: their appearance that no one on board could be prevailed 410 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: upon to take them as food. Not even sailors would 411 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: eat them. And I'm gonna say I take personal offense 412 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: to all this. I think marine iguanas are beautiful. I 413 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: want to hug and kiss them. I know I shouldn't. 414 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: I would never do that, but I want to. Yeah, 415 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: they do look kind of like jumps, but I think 416 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,199 Speaker 1: in a good way. I often we often thought that 417 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 1: they looked kind of like tiny Godzilla's. Something about the 418 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,479 Speaker 1: the shape of their their heads and their snouts and 419 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,400 Speaker 1: of course the little, uh you know, protrusions on the 420 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: top of their head give them kind of a a 421 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 1: kaiju appearance, and um that and there's so many things 422 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: about them that there's just a lot of times that 423 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 1: you know, they're lounging around, they're not doing anything, but 424 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: then when they are moving about, even on the land, 425 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: they can be quite amusing. Like, for instance, if one 426 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: is making a bee line for something, especially if one 427 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:41,919 Speaker 1: is coming out of the water or it's time to 428 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: go to the water. Sometimes something will seem to get 429 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:47,959 Speaker 1: in the way of their their journey, like maybe a 430 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,479 Speaker 1: sea lion or a human wanders into their path, and 431 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: they'll just kind of stop and they'll they won't skitter 432 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: out of the way or anything, but there's kind of 433 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 1: wait until whatever did is it has moved on, and 434 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 1: then they'll keep going. So there's is kind of like 435 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: laid back care free of energy to these creatures. They're 436 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: kind of wasted away again in Margaritaville. Yeah. Yeah, by 437 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: the way, you mentioned their stubby little snouts. That's actually 438 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 1: what the genus name means, ambly Rincus means blunt snout. Ah. Well, 439 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: we'll come back to that blunt snout of that. Thank However, 440 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 1: to come back to Darwin's writings on the marine iguana. 441 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: His unseemly anti iguana prejudice aside, he does make some 442 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: correct observations about them. For example, Captain Colnett remember said 443 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: that they go a fishing and sea herds. You know 444 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,120 Speaker 1: they're going to go out and catch fish. Darwin says, 445 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: I don't know about that. He challenges the idea that 446 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: they eat fish, and in fact we now know they 447 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 1: do not. Instead, Darwin observes that these animals seem to 448 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 1: subsist on a kind of seaweed or algae which cannot 449 00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: be found on land, and he reasons that this explains 450 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: why they evolved to go to sea in the first place. Yeah, 451 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: I mean this is this is spot on, of course, 452 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: and then we'll get into into it more in a bit. 453 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: But but yeah, and it's also very observable if you're 454 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: watching the creatures, because sometimes they're going to be uh, 455 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: eating algae that's under the water and perhaps out of you. 456 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 1: But other times it's it's algae, especially as the tides change, 457 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: it's like partially and partially out of the water, so 458 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 1: you can see them they're munching, grazing on the alergae 459 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 1: on the rock. So as a side note, Darwin says 460 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: one dissected iguana stomach did have a piece of crab 461 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: in it, though he thinks this might have been eaten 462 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: by accident, and he compares this two cases where a 463 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: vegetarian tortoise has a caterpillar in its stomach, because the 464 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: caterpillar was just on the leafy vegetation the tortoise was eating. 465 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: In fact, we've done whole segments about this on the 466 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: show before, about herbivores eating animals accidentally or even sometimes 467 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: on purpose. Yeah. But after introducing them, Darwin goes on 468 00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:00,160 Speaker 1: to describe the animals in detail, describing their movement. It's 469 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: with a strange mix of admiration and disgust. So here's 470 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: what he says. Quote. When in the water, this lizard 471 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: swims with perfect ease and quickness by a serpentine movement 472 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: of its body and flattened tail, the legs being motionless 473 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 1: and closely collapsed on its sides. A seman on board 474 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: sank one with a heavy weight attached to it, thinking 475 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 1: thus to kill it directly, but when an hour afterwards 476 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: he drew up the line, it was quite active. Their 477 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: limbs and strong claws are admirably adapted for crawling over 478 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 1: the rugged and fissured masses of lava which everywhere formed 479 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: the coast. In such situations, a group of six or 480 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: seven of these hideous reptiles may oftentimes be seen on 481 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: the black rocks a few feet above the surf, basking 482 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: in the sun with outstretched legs, and then He goes 483 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: on to note a strange, perplexing, almost contradictory observation about 484 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: their behavior. So, while the iguanas go to sea in 485 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: order to forage, that's how they make a living there. 486 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: They swim out in the water, get the algae, and 487 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: eat it. He found that he could not scare them 488 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 1: into the water. If he approached one, it would back 489 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: away from him until it reached the edge of a 490 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: rock hanging over the water. But once at that point 491 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: it would stop retreating. It would just let him approach 492 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: and catch it, rather than flee into the water. And 493 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: here we come to the infamous iguana chucking scene of 494 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: the Voyage of the Beagle. Darwin writes, I threw one 495 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: several times as far as I could into a deep 496 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: pool left by the retiring tide, but it invariably returned 497 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: in a direct line to the spot where I stood. 498 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: It swam near the bottom with a very graceful and 499 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: rapid movement, and occasionally aided itself over the uneven ground 500 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: with its feet. As soon as it arrived near the edge, 501 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: but still being underwater, it tried to conceal itself in 502 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: the tufts of seaweed, or it entered some crevice. As 503 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: soon as it thought the danger was past, it all 504 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: out on the dry rocks and shuffled away as quickly 505 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: as it could. I several times called this same lizard 506 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: by driving it down to a point, and though possessed 507 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: of such perfect powers of diving and swimming, nothing would 508 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: induce it to enter the water. And as often as 509 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: I threw it in, it returned in the manner above described. Uh. Now, 510 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: this is indeed a really odd bit of behavior, right, yeah, 511 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 1: so it would seem. Um. Now, before we get into that, 512 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,719 Speaker 1: I want to just mentioned I want to want to 513 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: make two comments about Darwin's writing here. First of all, 514 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: I do get the impression that perhaps Darwin was not 515 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: a cat person or had had a cat, because like, 516 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: this is the same, the same situation I think any 517 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: cat owner can attest to. It's like I tried to 518 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: put the cat where I wanted it to be, and 519 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: it did not want to be there, So strange. Um. 520 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: But but on the other hand, I do love the 521 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: part where he talks about how graceful they are in 522 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: the water, because that is also a huge tree getting 523 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 1: to watch these uh, these these lizards. It's a swim 524 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: about because it's I mean, it's it's unlike anything you 525 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: see with any other species on the planet. There's this 526 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: this graceful, indeed serpentine movement to them. There whatever awkwardness 527 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: you might observe on the land is not present in 528 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: the water. And it's yeah, it's like watching a strange 529 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: aquatic little dragon move about. Well, I think it's also 530 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: about the way that like they anatomically modify themselves to 531 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: move in the water versus on land, because as Darwin says, 532 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 1: they collapse their legs to the side and almost become 533 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: a snake in the water. Yeah, but with their their 534 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: heads up in a in a way that like you 535 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: wouldn't mistake it for a snake. Like the profile of 536 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: the swimming marine iguana is unlike anything certainly that I've 537 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: ever seen. So it really stands out in your mind, 538 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: like your mind instantly is identifying that this is something different, 539 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: This is something novel. I agree, and having seen not 540 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: in person, but seen plenty of you know, video of it. 541 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: They are beautiful when they're swimming. But to come back 542 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: to this odd behavior or so Darwin says, Okay, these 543 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: things they go in the water all the time. That's 544 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: how they eat, They go down in the water, they eat, 545 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: they come back. How come I can't scare one into 546 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: the water or get it to stay in the water 547 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: by throwing it in. I throw it in the water 548 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: just comes back out. Darwin comes up with a guess 549 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: about why it acts this way. He says, quote, perhaps 550 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: this singular piece of apparent stupidity may be accounted for 551 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: by the circumstance that this reptile has no enemy whatever 552 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: on shore, whereas it's at sea it must often fall 553 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: prey to the numerous sharks, hence probably urged by a 554 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: fixed and hereditary instinct that the shore is its place 555 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: of safety. Whatever the emergency may be, it there takes refuge. So, okay, 556 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: that's an interesting guess. He says. It has natural predators 557 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: in the water, but not on land, so it just 558 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: feels safer on land, even if here I am threatening 559 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: it on land, because it's just acting out of instinct. Yeah, yeah, 560 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: it would seem to be a decent theory. And in 561 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: eat on land that nothing really messes with them except 562 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: when they're smaller, and when they're smaller, they're you know, 563 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: like this is the case with a number of iguanas 564 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: and lizards like, until they reach a certain size, they're 565 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: on the menu for various other creatures and birds and whatnot. 566 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: But once they reach a certain uh maturity, Uh yeah, 567 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: they can just bask where they want. Nothing's gonna mess 568 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: with them. Yeah, well, at least in the ancestral environment 569 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: of the glass. Now introduced dogs and pigs and all 570 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: that stuff that humans brought there will prey on them, right, 571 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: So I decided to follow up on this and see 572 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: has there been any subsequent research about this behavior in 573 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: marine iguanas that could confirm or deny Darwin's guests about 574 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: the evolutionary reasoning there. And I found a paper that 575 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: addresses exactly this topic. It is by Edmund As Hobson 576 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: called Remarks on Aquatic Habitats of the Galapagos Marine Iguana, 577 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: including submergence times, cleaning, symbiosis, and the Shark Threat. This 578 00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: was published in a journal called Copeia in teen sixty nine, 579 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: and it seems that sharks do occasionally eat the iguanas 580 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: as Darwin guest. A report of the contents of shark's 581 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: stomachs in nineteen o three by Heller did find some 582 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,800 Speaker 1: marine iguanas in there, but Hobson thinks that the threat 583 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: to iguanas by sharks is mostly exaggerated, given that he 584 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: and his colleagues directly observed iguanas and sharks swimming in 585 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: the same waters side by side, and he says almost 586 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,239 Speaker 1: all the time they just ignore one another entirely. To 587 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: read from Hobson quote to the contrary, the general situation 588 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 1: finds sharks swimming slowly among smaller fishes with no overt 589 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,360 Speaker 1: sign that they regard these animals as prey. Certainly, sharks 590 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 1: are efficient predators when they do attack, but situations evoking 591 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 1: attack are relatively infrequent. At Narborough Island, I saw white 592 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,320 Speaker 1: tipped sharks and a gray shark pass within a few 593 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: meters of surface swimming iguanas, with no indication that they 594 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: regarded the iguanas as prey. George Barlow and I made 595 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: a similar observation involving a large hammer head at Hood Island. 596 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 1: So if it's not a fear of sharks, what explains 597 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: this behavior, Well, I would venture I guess I'd say 598 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: it it has to do with temperature, that they're their 599 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,799 Speaker 1: thermic reasons at play here. Great thinking, and this is 600 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 1: exactly what Hobson concludes. Hobson argues that the best explanation 601 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 1: for this apparently weird behavior observed by Darwin is that 602 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 1: the water is cold. You know, they have to go 603 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:32,799 Speaker 1: in there to get food, but they don't want to 604 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 1: spend any more time in there than they have to 605 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: because it's cold and their reptiles h to read from Hobson, 606 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: citing another researcher named Bartholomew quote. Bartholomew in nineteen sixty 607 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: six offered a more plausible explanation. After noting that iguana 608 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 1: is basking on the rocks ashore have a preferred body 609 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: temperature of thirty five to thirty seven degrees celsius, over 610 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: ten degrees celsius above that of the sea. He suggested 611 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,760 Speaker 1: that iguanas would you're taken from the rocks and thrown 612 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 1: into the water immediately returned to land, simply because they 613 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 1: are reluctant to cool off. Uh and I love this explanation. 614 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: It also does seem plausible to me. But I love 615 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,439 Speaker 1: this because it highlights something about human thinking that even 616 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: Darwin himself was not immune to. Uh And Rob, I 617 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: think you'll know exactly what I'm talking about here. When 618 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: humans are trying to come up with explanations for an 619 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: animal behavior or a feature of an animal body or something. 620 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 1: I think humans are way too quick to jump to 621 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 1: two types of explanations, those involving mating and those involving predation, 622 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 1: sex and violence. Just in our brains, sex and violence 623 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,880 Speaker 1: are more salient explanations than all kinds of other pressures 624 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: that exist in nature and do drive animal body plans 625 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 1: and animal behaviors. Things having to do with just base 626 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,720 Speaker 1: physical realities of the world, like maintaining body temperature, thermoregulation, 627 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 1: access to oxygen, all kinds of things like that that 628 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,840 Speaker 1: explained tons about the natural world. It's just our brains 629 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: just don't jump to those things as quickly when we're 630 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: looking for a hy Yeah. I think modern reptile enthusiasts, 631 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 1: especially any who have engaged in keeping of reptiles, they'll 632 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,400 Speaker 1: be pretty quick to tell you, oh, yeah, temperature is important, 633 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 1: temperature regulation. Uh, you know, the lizards, snakes, they want 634 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: their warm places and and they're certainly going to realize that. 635 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: But yeah, this is an easy, easy trap to fall into. 636 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 1: I should also say I did. I did go into 637 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 1: the water in the Galapagos snorkeling once, and it is 638 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,840 Speaker 1: to me a non iguana quite cold. So I can 639 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,799 Speaker 1: I can in some way at least understand how they 640 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: feel about it. Yeah, so Mark me is convinced. I 641 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 1: think that iguana kept swimming back and crawling out of 642 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 1: the water after Darwin threw it in because it was 643 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 1: getting cold and it wanted to it wanted to warm 644 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,439 Speaker 1: back up on the rocks. Yeah, And I think they're 645 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:00,320 Speaker 1: pretty chill, but they're like, no, it's too cold. I 646 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,319 Speaker 1: would like to get out, and he's like, I'm throwing 647 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,919 Speaker 1: you back in. He's like, to too cold. I wish 648 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:06,839 Speaker 1: to get out. It's not time it's not time out. 649 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:08,840 Speaker 1: I will get in the water when I am warmed 650 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,880 Speaker 1: up enough to do so. Now getting into a little 651 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 1: bit about the evolution of the marine reptiles, um, it's 652 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 1: it's very fascinating, especially again thinking of them as this 653 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: this this really largely singular occurrence in the modern world. 654 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 1: So I was looking at a few different sources. One 655 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: of these was Marine Reptiles by Resmussen at All from 656 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: Tleven published in p. Los one. They point out here 657 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:40,359 Speaker 1: that that lizards make up of all reptiles, but very 658 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: few lizard species compared to say, turtles and snakes are 659 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 1: present in our oceans, and this is this isn't getting 660 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: so much into the issue of prehistoric aquatic reptiles, which 661 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 1: do include extinct squamates like the mosasaur. The mososaurs which 662 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 1: were actually distant relatives of modern iguanas and monitor lizards. 663 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,399 Speaker 1: We're pretty fascinating of themselves. They were gigantic, They reached 664 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,759 Speaker 1: links of up to twelve meters or forty feet. Uh. 665 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: They swam in earths oceans roughly sixty six million years ago. 666 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,359 Speaker 1: They hunted other marine reptiles, and it's possible they gave 667 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,799 Speaker 1: birth to live young in the water. Uh, though I'm 668 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 1: not sure it's it's this is certain. There's some various 669 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 1: studies out there about possible egg finds of the mosasaurs. 670 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,920 Speaker 1: But it's worth mentioning here to drive home the difference 671 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: between today's marine reptiles and those of the past, especially 672 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,759 Speaker 1: you know, thinking about sea turtles, thinking too, about the 673 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 1: marine iguana. These are animals that um to varying degrees, 674 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,840 Speaker 1: are great in the water, but they still must return 675 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: to shore to complete some vital stage of their um 676 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 1: of their life, certainly with sea turtles, with with the 677 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 1: marine iguana. It's more living on the shore but then 678 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:02,040 Speaker 1: going into the water to graze and feed. Yeah. So, 679 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,880 Speaker 1: of extent lizards that are in any way aquatic, there 680 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: are only a few extreme examples um and this includes 681 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: the Western Pacific mangrove monitor, which is a carnivore. But 682 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,840 Speaker 1: as the authors here point out, the galapagost marine iguana 683 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 1: is the most aquatic of all extants lizards. It basques, breeds, 684 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 1: and lays eggs on land, et cetera, but it has 685 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:25,920 Speaker 1: to go into the water to feed. It is, by 686 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: other definitions, the only squa mate that's actually able to 687 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 1: exploit the research sources of the ocean in a meaningful way. 688 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,760 Speaker 1: So the aforementioned monitor lizard, for example, can catch fish, 689 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,880 Speaker 1: but it also feeds on terrestrial meats as well. I 690 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 1: should also note that there are other iguanas on the 691 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 1: Glabos Island islands, to be sure, including seven smaller species 692 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:50,239 Speaker 1: and three species of land iguanas in the genus um Conelphus. 693 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,799 Speaker 1: They include the beautiful and rare Galapagos pink iguana, which 694 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: is a most special creature. Included a picture of this 695 00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 1: for you, Joe and everyone out there. You should look 696 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 1: up a picture of the Galapa those pink iguana. This 697 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,799 Speaker 1: is not something I got to see when I was there, 698 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:08,000 Speaker 1: because it lives in a very remote part of the islands. 699 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,759 Speaker 1: Uh not not even even locals don't usually get to 700 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 1: see this creature. The first thing that popped into my 701 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,279 Speaker 1: head is it looks kind of like a hot dog. Yeah, yeah, 702 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: it's you know, it's it's it's it's especially it's an 703 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,359 Speaker 1: iguana pink. But yeah, they're these are these are rare 704 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 1: and beautiful creatures. But again, the marine iguana is the 705 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,000 Speaker 1: real standout here. The other guanas are a lot of 706 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,239 Speaker 1: fun to watch too, if you if you visit, but 707 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:34,560 Speaker 1: the marine iguana is special. The average adult is around 708 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 1: one point two meters in length, so they're not huge, 709 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,680 Speaker 1: and they're found out virtually every island of the Galapacos, 710 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 1: Thank thank so. Coming back to the question, how did 711 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: any of these lizards get to the far flung Galabicos islands, 712 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,399 Speaker 1: The answer, according to Resmussen at All, is probably that 713 00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,319 Speaker 1: they're all related to iguanas from South America that were 714 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 1: washed from the South American mainland, again perhaps by river floods, 715 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,200 Speaker 1: and carried out to the Galapagos, and again this is 716 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:10,360 Speaker 1: where the Galapagos is isolation yet closer proximity to a 717 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,840 Speaker 1: continental mainland comes into play. The theory is also in 718 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,360 Speaker 1: part supported by the fact that as distinct as the 719 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:21,680 Speaker 1: four bigger iguanas of the Galapagos Islands, including the Marine iguana, are, 720 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,040 Speaker 1: they are closely related and they actually can breed with 721 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,880 Speaker 1: one another to produce hybrids. So hybrids have been reported. 722 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,800 Speaker 1: According to rest Moodsen, at all, the marine iguanas spend 723 00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,240 Speaker 1: quite a bit of time in the water, though foraging 724 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 1: for their food. As adults, they feed almost exclusively on 725 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:43,000 Speaker 1: the red and green algae there it's been pointed out 726 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,000 Speaker 1: there not above at least trying out the odds grape 727 00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:47,880 Speaker 1: scrap of this, that or the other. And perhaps that 728 00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,800 Speaker 1: accounts for the the crab claw that Charles Darwin reported. 729 00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,480 Speaker 1: And there's at least one population of the marine iguanas 730 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,720 Speaker 1: that has been observed to supplement their diet with land plants. 731 00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,560 Speaker 1: But for the most part, their hind gut has evolved 732 00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:04,520 Speaker 1: to thrive on the algae. Like they're they're bound to 733 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,840 Speaker 1: the algae. This is not just a this is not 734 00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,320 Speaker 1: just a lifestyle choice. At this point, and their bodies 735 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,680 Speaker 1: have adapted in other key ways as well to allow 736 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:17,359 Speaker 1: this marine diet due to the considerable selection pressure that's 737 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,600 Speaker 1: been applied to them, which is quite literally the selection 738 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,719 Speaker 1: pressure of being cast upon a resource depleted island. So 739 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:28,080 Speaker 1: we we mentioned their flattened tail. That's one of the adaptations. 740 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,919 Speaker 1: Um and uh. And it's not like you don't find 741 00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,640 Speaker 1: flattened tails and other lizard species, but this is clearly 742 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,959 Speaker 1: something that seems to help out there swimming. They also 743 00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:42,239 Speaker 1: have a limited webbing on their feet, which I saw 744 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,120 Speaker 1: kind of a two different takes on this, and the 745 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,680 Speaker 1: literature is looking at. On one hand, there's the argument like, yeah, 746 00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,600 Speaker 1: it's partially web feet, this is going to help them swim, 747 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,920 Speaker 1: but others say, well, the webbing is not that extensive. 748 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,640 Speaker 1: It maybe helps a little bit, but let's not overstress 749 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,960 Speaker 1: its importance. Well, I'm no marine iguana expert, but I 750 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,560 Speaker 1: it seems to me, at least when I've seen images 751 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,600 Speaker 1: of them swimming. It doesn't seem like they paddle with 752 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:08,120 Speaker 1: their feet much at all that I recall, but maybe 753 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:12,000 Speaker 1: they do sometimes. Something that everyone agrees on, though, is 754 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,600 Speaker 1: that their claws have become more powerful to allow them 755 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,839 Speaker 1: to grip the rocks and the surf during feeding. And 756 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,920 Speaker 1: this is certainly key because if you if you're observing 757 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,120 Speaker 1: one from the shore, or if you're looking at images 758 00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:26,080 Speaker 1: or footage of them, or or if you're snorkeling and 759 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:27,800 Speaker 1: get to see one underwater. I did not get to 760 00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:32,480 Speaker 1: see one underwater firsthand, but either way, when they're feeding, 761 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,880 Speaker 1: they're often in an area where you know, the surf 762 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,560 Speaker 1: is disrupting them and would make it difficult to feed 763 00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,000 Speaker 1: if they were not able to hold on and latch on. 764 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,000 Speaker 1: And then of course when they get in or out 765 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 1: of the surf, they're gonna need to keep from being 766 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,879 Speaker 1: swept up anyway. So yeah, they got to have those 767 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,239 Speaker 1: powerful claws to aid them. That's not an easy lifestyle, 768 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,960 Speaker 1: like crawling out of the surf onto rocks. I mean, 769 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:59,759 Speaker 1: think about how dangerous, how dangerous it would be to 770 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:01,880 Speaker 1: try the land a boat or even just swim up 771 00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:06,200 Speaker 1: onto jagged rocks as the tide is coming in and out. Yeah, 772 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,239 Speaker 1: for sure. Um I was also Now this is something 773 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:11,520 Speaker 1: I was told by one of the guides in the 774 00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:15,000 Speaker 1: Colabkos Island, who again are are very um knowledgeable of 775 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:18,359 Speaker 1: all of this. Uh so you know they're they're very 776 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,000 Speaker 1: quick to spout out all the scientific names of all 777 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,360 Speaker 1: the creatures you're looking at, and they're they're up on 778 00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,800 Speaker 1: the latest find things and so forth. It was pointed 779 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,800 Speaker 1: out that they all utilize those sort of thorny spikes 780 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:35,480 Speaker 1: on their head and I almost hesitate to say face 781 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,000 Speaker 1: in order to loosen up the algae on the rocks 782 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,839 Speaker 1: by sort of rubbing their heads against it. It. And 783 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:42,640 Speaker 1: then it should also be noted we we touched on 784 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:47,760 Speaker 1: this earlier, but there's the whole regulation of their body temperature. Uh. 785 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:49,760 Speaker 1: And this is key because again the water is cold, 786 00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:53,480 Speaker 1: and these are cold blooded animals, so they spend a 787 00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,600 Speaker 1: fair amount of time basking in the sun. And the 788 00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,880 Speaker 1: way this is certainly one way it was described to me, 789 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,200 Speaker 1: uh there, and it is backed up in the the 790 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,200 Speaker 1: paper those reading recently, is that in order to go 791 00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:07,879 Speaker 1: into the water, they kind of have to power up, 792 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,359 Speaker 1: so like they're powering they're like on the on the 793 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,200 Speaker 1: beach or on the rocks, basking in the sun, kind 794 00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,719 Speaker 1: of filling their batteries up all the way, and then 795 00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,160 Speaker 1: when it's time, well then it's time. Now it's time 796 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,840 Speaker 1: to go into the water to forage for food, and 797 00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,319 Speaker 1: they make that bee line, but it's only then, only 798 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,359 Speaker 1: only then, and they're not going to be thrown in 799 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:30,200 Speaker 1: early by some deranged Englishmen and and if something should 800 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,160 Speaker 1: get in their way while they're just gonna wait patiently 801 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:33,919 Speaker 1: for a little bit. But they're they've got a place 802 00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,000 Speaker 1: to be. Uh, it is time to go into the 803 00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,640 Speaker 1: water and feed. So it's a constant trade off of 804 00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,680 Speaker 1: managing different energy resources in the body. You've got, you know, 805 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,200 Speaker 1: your your thermal energy, like you need to bask on 806 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,959 Speaker 1: the land to uh, to get your body temperature up, 807 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:49,799 Speaker 1: but then you need to go into the water to 808 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,600 Speaker 1: get food for your metabolism. And you're sort of just 809 00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:56,319 Speaker 1: always trading back and forth between the two. Yeah. Now 810 00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,080 Speaker 1: when they're in the water, their heartbeats also reduced from 811 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,160 Speaker 1: about forty three beats per minute on land to seven 812 00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,759 Speaker 1: to nine beats per minute in the water, So that's 813 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:09,600 Speaker 1: also an interesting adaptation they have. And then, uh, this 814 00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,240 Speaker 1: is another famous one that's a lot of fun to watch. 815 00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,160 Speaker 1: You see this in footage every nature documentary that's covered 816 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,640 Speaker 1: marine iguanas. But both of the main varieties found in 817 00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:21,880 Speaker 1: the four larger iguanas they have salt glands um that 818 00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:25,360 Speaker 1: helped them process an abundance of salt should it be 819 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,880 Speaker 1: in the body. But with the with the marine iguanas, 820 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,360 Speaker 1: this of course is very visual because if you're just 821 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,680 Speaker 1: watching them lounge about, they're going to regularly appear to sneeze. 822 00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,840 Speaker 1: They're not sneezing, they're blasting salt out of these salt 823 00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:42,560 Speaker 1: glands that they basically blasting salt out of their nostrils 824 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,000 Speaker 1: as they lounge about on their rocks. And as they're 825 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,880 Speaker 1: doing this to making these cute little sneezing sounds or 826 00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,160 Speaker 1: gross little sneezing sounds everyone to look at it. They're 827 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,520 Speaker 1: also kind of like crusting over the tops of their 828 00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,799 Speaker 1: heads with this, you know, like white salt crystals, so 829 00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:58,600 Speaker 1: you can tell like which ones haven't been on the 830 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,200 Speaker 1: in the water that recently because they have this kind 831 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,440 Speaker 1: of like salty look to their heads. They got the 832 00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,040 Speaker 1: salt snot on their Yeah, you know, uh, this comes 833 00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:10,920 Speaker 1: back to something else Darwin said. He was like, uh, there, 834 00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:12,759 Speaker 1: you know, you can back them into a corner and 835 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,399 Speaker 1: you can catch them. They don't really bite. I don't 836 00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:17,359 Speaker 1: think that's true, by the way, but he says they 837 00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,000 Speaker 1: don't really bite, but they will blow salt out of 838 00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,239 Speaker 1: their noses at you. Yes, I was. I remember reading 839 00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:25,200 Speaker 1: this as well, because I was when we were in 840 00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,640 Speaker 1: the glab because I pulled up the text, was reading it, 841 00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,560 Speaker 1: and yeah, there is this um accusation that they're doing 842 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,640 Speaker 1: it defensively. Uh, and yeah, this does not seem to 843 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,040 Speaker 1: be the case. No, they they're just doing it. Maybe 844 00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,920 Speaker 1: they're doing it. I guess. I guess it's probably this. 845 00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:42,480 Speaker 1: I have no data on this, but I guess it's 846 00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:46,080 Speaker 1: possible that if someone has is coming at them and 847 00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,879 Speaker 1: backing them away, then maybe that does seem to incite 848 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:54,200 Speaker 1: a snort because they're about to move. But other than that, yeah, 849 00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,719 Speaker 1: there's I've seen nothing to indicate that this is in 850 00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,560 Speaker 1: any way of self defense measure. That's right up there 851 00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:02,520 Speaker 1: with a in defensive vomiting. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot 852 00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:04,160 Speaker 1: of back and forth on that, right. I think we've 853 00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:07,560 Speaker 1: discussed that, like, is a is like a vulture vomiting 854 00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:11,440 Speaker 1: in order to like free up room, uh and you know, 855 00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:13,680 Speaker 1: make itself lighter so it can take off and get away. 856 00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,279 Speaker 1: Is it are offering a bribe to a scavenger that 857 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:18,360 Speaker 1: may be coming after them and decide to go for 858 00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,440 Speaker 1: vomit instead of fighting a buzzard like they're they're various 859 00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:25,280 Speaker 1: interpretations of that. As I recall now on the issue 860 00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,720 Speaker 1: of marine iguana evolution, I was looking at another source. 861 00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:31,640 Speaker 1: This was from Martin Wakelski in a two thousand five 862 00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,360 Speaker 1: edition of the Royal Society paper entitled Evolution of body 863 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,879 Speaker 1: size in Galapagos Marine Iguanas. And I found this one 864 00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:42,960 Speaker 1: interesting because the author here lays out one possible model 865 00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:46,839 Speaker 1: for how the marine iguana is evolved. So, first of all, 866 00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,680 Speaker 1: iguanas arrived according to this this um, this theoretical model 867 00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:53,520 Speaker 1: in the Galapa goes perhaps ten to fifteen million years 868 00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:57,799 Speaker 1: ago from South America via rafting, so swept out to 869 00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,400 Speaker 1: see floating on some veget tasition and so forth, and 870 00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:06,239 Speaker 1: then being cast on this strange island. And once they're 871 00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:09,359 Speaker 1: there it becomes clear eventually here that in the inter 872 00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:13,960 Speaker 1: title zone there's plenty of food for iguanas, but it's 873 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:19,600 Speaker 1: not on the land, it's the algae in the water. Uh. Initially, 874 00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:21,719 Speaker 1: the iguanas are going to have to depend on low 875 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:25,040 Speaker 1: tides to get to the food. So the tide goes down, 876 00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:28,719 Speaker 1: iguanas are are daring to to get down in there 877 00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,920 Speaker 1: and go after the algae. And so there's going to 878 00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:33,879 Speaker 1: but from there, that's where we're gonna begin to see 879 00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:38,600 Speaker 1: the selection pressure towards larger bodies for thermal inertia and 880 00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,560 Speaker 1: also the ability to anchor themselves in the surf, as 881 00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,680 Speaker 1: well as these other adaptations that we mentioned, like the 882 00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:48,200 Speaker 1: bigger clause ultimately the shorter snout as well. Uh, that's 883 00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,400 Speaker 1: going to be a part of their their foraging behavior 884 00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:53,120 Speaker 1: as they essentially like rub their their faces against the 885 00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,840 Speaker 1: rocks to gnaw off the algae, as well as the 886 00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:01,600 Speaker 1: like swimming morphological changes. Interest. Yeah, there's and there's there's 887 00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,040 Speaker 1: actually a lot of a lot of work that comes 888 00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:06,960 Speaker 1: out related to the marine iguanas, Like there's no shortage 889 00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,799 Speaker 1: of papers. There's one from one that I was looking at, 890 00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:15,640 Speaker 1: Cranial Anatomy of the Glabos marine Iguana by Paparella and 891 00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:20,880 Speaker 1: calledwell in the American Association for Anatomy, and uh, they 892 00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:22,760 Speaker 1: point out some of the you know, the key changes 893 00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:26,920 Speaker 1: just to the head of the creature of viets evolution, uh, 894 00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:31,400 Speaker 1: modified configuration of the snout and nasal chamber, increased muscle 895 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:35,680 Speaker 1: attachments in the temporal post orbital region of the skull 896 00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:38,799 Speaker 1: and UH didn't, and also the teeth as well. So 897 00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,959 Speaker 1: all this is coming seems to revolve around what they're 898 00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:43,919 Speaker 1: feeding on and how they're feeding on it, and how 899 00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:48,000 Speaker 1: that's affecting UH, just like the overall shape and even 900 00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,960 Speaker 1: like the the muscles of the head. And I imagine 901 00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:53,440 Speaker 1: they would make some guesses from this about how far 902 00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:59,560 Speaker 1: back in in time the marine Iguanas had these evolutionary changes. Yeah, 903 00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:02,920 Speaker 1: that one of the authors here, Paparella. I found this 904 00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:05,279 Speaker 1: is actually I belief from another paper, but I saw 905 00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:10,359 Speaker 1: this author saying that arguing elsewhere for an iguana colonization 906 00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,759 Speaker 1: of the ancient Collapos Islands as far back as million 907 00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:16,440 Speaker 1: years ago. And I think in this we're getting into, 908 00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:20,200 Speaker 1: uh into into this idea of not only the the 909 00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:23,760 Speaker 1: existing Galapicos Island, but these like pre existing Collapicos islands, 910 00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:25,560 Speaker 1: the ones that, like you said, have now been lost 911 00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:30,800 Speaker 1: and are submerged. Um Uh wrote that like this, we 912 00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:34,560 Speaker 1: would have had like an initial dispersal followed by constant 913 00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:38,680 Speaker 1: short range hopping from older to newer islands. So you know, 914 00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:40,520 Speaker 1: they get a foothold on one place and then they 915 00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:43,160 Speaker 1: can they can spread to these other islands much more easily. 916 00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:46,359 Speaker 1: And then as new islands emerged, that opens up new 917 00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:48,600 Speaker 1: places for them to be. And of course as old 918 00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:52,560 Speaker 1: islands die away, then so do the populations of those 919 00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,680 Speaker 1: islands or they you know, they're forced to disperse to 920 00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,520 Speaker 1: newer islands. And Joe, from that that paper about the 921 00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,160 Speaker 1: shape of their heads, I included at this wonderful image, 922 00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,719 Speaker 1: this one. I think I didn't get this out of 923 00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:06,920 Speaker 1: the paper itself, but this was I believe from a 924 00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:12,880 Speaker 1: uh like a Twitter post by the American Association for Anatomy. 925 00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:15,080 Speaker 1: It's out there if anyone wants to look it up 926 00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,600 Speaker 1: for themselves. But uh yeah, you see very very high 927 00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:21,960 Speaker 1: definition close up on both the head of the marine 928 00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:25,520 Speaker 1: iguana and then also a comparison of the skull, which 929 00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:28,360 Speaker 1: I thought was just very insightful looking at these, because 930 00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:31,640 Speaker 1: you know, if it just looks, it looks very much 931 00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:34,439 Speaker 1: unlike a lot of the lizard skulls you might see, like, 932 00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:36,440 Speaker 1: like glancing at it, you might not even think of 933 00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:37,960 Speaker 1: it as a lizard scull, mean, doesn't look like a 934 00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:42,279 Speaker 1: human skull or anything. Um, it's distinct, but you can 935 00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:45,879 Speaker 1: clearly see like the changes that have taken place here. Yeah, 936 00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:48,359 Speaker 1: the blunt snout and the density of it, I mean 937 00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,800 Speaker 1: almost you can imagine it being more of a turtle skull. 938 00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,960 Speaker 1: Or again, I mean it looks kind of like Godzilla. Yeah, 939 00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:57,560 Speaker 1: it's like Godzilla. And I like how they kind of 940 00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,239 Speaker 1: have you see, especially in close up that like these 941 00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:04,160 Speaker 1: there's real sense of iguana lips, you know. Yeah, you 942 00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:08,200 Speaker 1: also get a really good look up inside the nostrils. Yeah, 943 00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:10,160 Speaker 1: this of course is a specimen. This is a dead 944 00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:13,239 Speaker 1: iguana that Joe and I are galking at here. Um, 945 00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:23,440 Speaker 1: but still beautiful specimen. But yeah, the Marina iguanas are 946 00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:25,399 Speaker 1: our special creatures. And I don't I think I don't 947 00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,480 Speaker 1: even have to tell anyone this. This is not new information. Uh. 948 00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:30,560 Speaker 1: There have been so many documentaries that of course have 949 00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:34,200 Speaker 1: covered the Galakos Islands that have caught brilliant footage of them. 950 00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:37,160 Speaker 1: They are a standout species that they've been highlighted in 951 00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:39,839 Speaker 1: in various shows over time, or you've you've no doubt 952 00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:42,520 Speaker 1: seen articles about them or see them popping up in 953 00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:46,040 Speaker 1: the lists. So so yeah, nothing nothing new in me 954 00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:48,759 Speaker 1: saying that these animals are great. But but like all 955 00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:50,120 Speaker 1: these things, you have if you get to see them 956 00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:53,000 Speaker 1: in person. If you have that chance, take that that opportunity, 957 00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:56,560 Speaker 1: because they're they're pretty remarkable. I would like to see 958 00:54:56,600 --> 00:55:01,680 Speaker 1: the iguana puppy pile. Hey, we haven't even touched on 959 00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:04,759 Speaker 1: the most famous reptiles of the Galapagos, and I think 960 00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:06,719 Speaker 1: we're gonna have to do that in the next episode. 961 00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:10,080 Speaker 1: That's right, the Galapa goes towards us. We're gonna come 962 00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:12,680 Speaker 1: back in the next episode of of this journey to 963 00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:16,440 Speaker 1: discuss uh, these fabulous creatures. I mean, it makes sense 964 00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:19,880 Speaker 1: that they'd come in second. They are slower, but they're 965 00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:23,960 Speaker 1: they're very remarkable in their own way, So be sure 966 00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:28,040 Speaker 1: to come back for that episode. In the meantime, we'd 967 00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:29,680 Speaker 1: love to hear from you if you have thoughts about 968 00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:35,799 Speaker 1: Marine iguanas um you know, firsthand or documentary based. If 969 00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:39,560 Speaker 1: you're a resident of of Ecuador the Glavacos island, certainly 970 00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:41,120 Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you on all of this. 971 00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:43,480 Speaker 1: If you want to hear more Stuff to Blow your Mind, 972 00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,879 Speaker 1: I'll just remind you that core episodes of the show 973 00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:48,480 Speaker 1: publish on Tuesdays and Thursdays in the Stuff to Blow 974 00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,719 Speaker 1: Your Mind podcast feed on Monday's We Do Listener Mail, 975 00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:53,040 Speaker 1: on Wednesday's We Do a short form artifact or monster Fact, 976 00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:55,759 Speaker 1: and on Friday's We Do Weird How Cinema. That's our 977 00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:59,040 Speaker 1: time to set aside most of the serious science and 978 00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:02,600 Speaker 1: so forth in just talk about a strange film. Huge 979 00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:06,919 Speaker 1: thanks to our audio producer Max Williams. If you would 980 00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,120 Speaker 1: like to get in touch with us with feedback on 981 00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,520 Speaker 1: this episode or any other, to suggest a topic for 982 00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:14,200 Speaker 1: the future, or just to say hello, you can email 983 00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:25,440 Speaker 1: us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 984 00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:27,960 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of I Heart Radio. 985 00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,640 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart 986 00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:33,440 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listening to your 987 00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:43,280 Speaker 1: favorite shows.