1 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: Just off Madison Avenue on East seventy third Street for 2 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: lunchtime crowded Via Quadrono fills every sidewalk table as well 3 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 1: as the seats in its pandemic inspired shed. It's a 4 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: cheerful neighborhood joint, catering to a young crowd with great coffee, 5 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: sandwiches and pasta. A sense of triumph pervades the place. 6 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: Among all the restaurants closed by COVID nineteen, Via Quadrono 7 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: is more popular than ever. Often from a town house 8 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: next door, a stooped figure emerges from an upper floor 9 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: and makes her way down the stately front steps past 10 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: the Millennials. She looks smaller than she once did, as 11 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: if scrunched by the circumstances that let her here, though 12 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: she still has the white corkscrew curls that made her 13 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: stand out in any art fair or gallery opening, and 14 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: the stern, almost imperious mien for which she was known. 15 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: A little over a decade ago. Ann Friedman was among 16 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: the most powerful art dealers in New York. Her fiefdom 17 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: was the Knodler Gallery, from which she sold works by 18 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: many of the best known artists of the mid twentieth century. 19 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: Mark Rothkoe, William Dacooning, Barnett Newman, Clifford Still, and Jackson Pollock. 20 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: Today the Kndler is gone. Just three blocks down Madison 21 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 1: on the north Side Street stand the ghosts of the 22 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: now infamous gallery to adjoining limestone mansions in the Italian 23 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: Renaissance style with ornate stone arches topped by decorative balconies. 24 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: In the galleries own Renaissance. A Royal Blue Awning announced 25 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: the Ndler's two buildings in appital letters. In this season 26 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: of Art Fraud, we're examining the rise and fall of 27 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: the Knoedler Gallery. It's a story about one of New 28 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: York City's oldest and most celebrated galleries dealing in world 29 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: class art, and how its doors would close forever in 30 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: the face of insurmountable pressure, ultimately in the form of 31 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: looming prison time. We're talking, of course, about paintings, fake paintings, 32 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: or more plainly, forgeries. The best fakes are still hanging 33 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: off people's walls. You know they don't even know or 34 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: suspect that they're fakes. Of course, art forgeries only happen 35 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: because there's money to be made, a lot of money. 36 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: Tens of millions of dollars would change hands between a 37 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: cast of characters. Before it was all over, A few profited, 38 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: some were cheated, and at least one person and would 39 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: find themselves behind bars. With me today is Michael Schneerson, 40 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: a long time contributing editor for Vanity Fair, whose feature 41 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: story on the Knoedler Gallery appeared in the magazine shortly 42 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: after the scandal broke in the spring of two thousand twelve. 43 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 1: Michael is also the author of Boom Mad Money, Mega 44 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: Dealers and the Rise of Contemporary Art are compelling and 45 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: entertaining overview of the dealers who helped make the contemporary 46 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: art market what it is today. The honest dealers, I 47 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: hasten to add, because generally these dealers were and are honest, 48 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: driven by a passion for their artists far more than profit. 49 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: Here's Michael Schneerson. I've written a lot of articles for 50 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: Vanity Fair, but the Notler case sticks in my mind 51 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: because at the heart of it lies an unresolved mystery. 52 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: The story, of course, has taken some turns that even 53 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: Anne Friedman could not have predicted. You could say that 54 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: about the whole contemporary art market. I suppose who would 55 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: have imagined at the start of the century that an 56 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: artist named Jeff Coon's would make a supersized stainless steel 57 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 1: rabbit that's sold at auction in May two nineteen million dollars, 58 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: the highest price ever paid for a living artist's work. 59 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: Who could have predicted that a young Brooklyn artist named 60 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: Jean Michel Baskuillade would make his oddly haunting abstract portraits 61 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: of tribal figures and totems in a basement for drug money, 62 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: only to have them sell after his premature death for 63 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: as much as a hundred and ten million dollars. Record 64 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: Breaking sales like that have done more than juice the 65 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: art market. They've led to a gray market of private 66 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: dealings that thrive in a hot climate. It's important to 67 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: note that the art market is still the world's largest 68 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: unregulated business. Legal business anyway. You have to do what 69 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: you say you'll do when striking a deal. You have 70 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: to pay your taxes, and that's about it. I remember 71 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: go in to a mega dealer's home in East Hampton 72 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: one night and commenting that the art market was the 73 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: last unregulated multibillion dollar equity market in the world. Our 74 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: host said, and let's try to keep it that way 75 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 1: as his guests raised their glasses and toasted. When a 76 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 1: dealer goes further trafficking and paintings that turn out to 77 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 1: be fakes, is there any pattern to explain why that happens. 78 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 1: Usually it starts with someone down on their luck, a 79 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 1: dealer or perhaps an unsuccessful artist. The fraudster may have 80 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: no intention of doing more than tweaking a painting to 81 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: make it more saleable, or fabricating just one work to 82 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: pay the bills. But what if he or she turns 83 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 1: out to be awfully good at it and the dealer, 84 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: in desperate straits buys it. What if the dealer then 85 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: sells it for a profit to someone unaware of the fraud. 86 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:55,359 Speaker 1: And so a fascinating dance begins to dance about the 87 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,559 Speaker 1: art that's changing hands, but even more so, a dance 88 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,799 Speaker 1: about the story behind the art. At first, the froster 89 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: tells a bit of the story, just one or two 90 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: tantalizing and fabricated bits to explain how and when the 91 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: painting was done. And then as the dance goes on, 92 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: the victim let's call him the mark, grows ever more 93 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: eager to hear more. After all, the more he hears, 94 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: the more the expanding story seems to authenticate the art 95 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: he's bought and the money he'll lose if it turns 96 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: out the story was a scam, until the fraudster and 97 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: the mark are intertwined, each so eager to believe the 98 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: story that for both it sort of comes true. So 99 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: it would become for Ann Friedman, the Nole Gallery's director, 100 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 1: and a mysterious woman named Lepa Rosalez, who, on her 101 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: visits to the Nodler starting in always seemed to have 102 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: another mid century masterpiece under her arm. As we embark 103 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: on this exploration, it's my opinion that Anne sold those 104 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: paintings convinced they were real, until the day Glafira brought 105 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 1: the whole story crashing down. I don't believe Anne knew 106 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 1: they were fakes and sold them as fakes. I have 107 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: to be honest with you, Alex, I disagree. I think 108 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: you couldn't be a well known, long time dealer in 109 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: top tier art and sell paintings one after another with 110 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: no clear trail of ownership unless you were acting with 111 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: criminal intent. I think and knew exactly what she was doing. 112 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: If not from the beginning, then soon enough and that 113 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: she hoped she could fool the art world over and 114 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: over again, as indeed she did for some fourteen years. 115 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: So the first question is whether Ann Friedman knew what 116 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: she was buying when she bought these works for whopping 117 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: discounts from Fia Rosalie and her confederates. And the next 118 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: question is should Anne's own customers, to whom she retailed 119 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: these paintings, should they have been more aware of what 120 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: they were doing. There's an argument in the art world 121 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: that when you purchase an expensive work of art, it's 122 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: your obligation, as a sophisticated buyer to do your research, 123 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: talked to experts and so forth. Robert Store, former director 124 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: of the Yale School of Art and one of the 125 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: country's most important art critics, said at a conference not 126 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: long ago, the collectors are quote unquote stupid to spend 127 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: millions of dollars on a work of art without personally 128 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:18,239 Speaker 1: investigating its authenticity. And I think he has a point. 129 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: That's an interesting idea. So what's your responsibility of your 130 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: the buyer, to figure out if my artist fake. I've 131 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,239 Speaker 1: got a gallery full of art in the Upper East Side. 132 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: Some of it is real, some of it is not 133 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: you decide. Well, that's a fair point. I guess my 134 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: reluctance to think the worst event has as much to 135 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: do with how I felt about the gallery is what 136 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: I felt about her. I'm not a serious collector of 137 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: contemporary art, far from it, but I like looking at art, 138 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 1: and on occasion I've bought a painting not for seven 139 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: or eight figures, but maybe six. In fact, I've been 140 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: the victim of an art forgery myself, but we'll get 141 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: to that later. The Noodler felt different from almost every 142 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: other gallery in New York. There's a stateliness about the 143 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: a touch of class, old world manners. The Noder didn't 144 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: just sell contemporary art. It's old modern art too, which 145 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: is to say, art by artists who started before World 146 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: War Two, anyone from Brock and Picasso to Francis Bacon. 147 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 1: A sweeping stairway led from the showrooms to the office above, 148 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: where Ann Friedman presided. The true marvel of Knoedler was 149 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: its legacy. It was the oldest gallery in New York, 150 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: opened in eight Through those five years, it had never closed, 151 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 1: not in the Civil War, not in World War Two, 152 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: through every calamity in American history since the Antebellum era, 153 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: the k Noodler had survived. But who was Knodler and 154 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: how did the venerable gallery get its start in New York? 155 00:09:47,160 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: That's after the break. It was an eighteen fifty two 156 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: that a young and ambitious gallery assistant named Michael Ndler 157 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: disembark from a Transatlantic ship in New York, scanning the 158 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: busy waterfront for the face he hoped to find. Soon enough, 159 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: he spotted his man, William schaus Chaos had come from 160 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,839 Speaker 1: Paris four years earlier to start a New York branch 161 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: of a company called Goupil vbel a C soon to 162 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: be known as Ndler. Michael Knoedler was a Goupeel employee 163 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: in Paris. That's Dick McIntosh. For years, Dick worked at 164 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: the Knoedler Gallery as its historian. He was on the 165 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: verge of publishing the definitive history of the gallery when 166 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: its gates came crashing down. Out of Goupiel met Michael 167 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: Knoedler in Stuttgart in the course of business and brought 168 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: him to Goupeel in Company in Paris, and Michael Knodler 169 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:05,559 Speaker 1: trained in Paris for a good ten or twelve years 170 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: he was totally a vassal of Adolf Kupel. William Schaus 171 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: was the first person sent here to open the gallery, 172 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: who arrived in eighteen forty seven to scout things out 173 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: to help us understand how the Noodler became the first 174 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 1: art gallery in New York and how for decades it 175 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: remained the Venerable Nodler Gallery, as if venerable was part 176 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: of its title. I've asked Noodler historian Dick McIntosh and 177 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: Francis Batty to art market experts to share some Nodal 178 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: history with me at my home on the Upper East Side. 179 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,959 Speaker 1: The fact that I live on East seventy third Street, 180 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: steps from Freedom and Arts is just a coincidence, though 181 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: it does mean I get more sightings of Anne than 182 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: I otherwise would, And to be candid, I've often found 183 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: myself turning a corner at almost the exact moment and 184 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: reaches the corner from the other side, or spotting that 185 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: mop of silver curls to block away heading in my direction. 186 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: I would be less than honest if I didn't admit 187 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: I've taken avoidance measures, darting between parked cars or turning 188 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: so abruptly that I bargined to strangers. Partly it said 189 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: I have nothing to say to her, but also I 190 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 1: know that my Vanity Fair story, while it seemed fair 191 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: to me, cut her deeply. That's never my intent with 192 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 1: the magazine story. But sometimes the facts just go where 193 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: they will at any rate. There's not much to say 194 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,719 Speaker 1: other than to ask questions she'd rather not answer, and 195 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 1: to watch her stock off and a huff dick. I 196 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: know the firm that came to be an odler didn't 197 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 1: start as an art gallery. What was it exactly? When 198 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: you walked into the place, what did you see? A store? 199 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: The family always called it the store, which is an 200 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: indication of its very eclectic nature. It would be very, 201 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: very pretentious to call yourself a gallery, because it's like 202 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: calling yourself a museum, and that would be, I think 203 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: at that point, very inappropriate. That's Francis Beatty. Francis has 204 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: been an art dealer for nearly forty years, first in 205 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 1: partnership with the late legendary Richard Fagan, now with her 206 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: son Alex, a tall and suave dealer in his own 207 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: right who spends every spare moment schmoozing with tech billionaires 208 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: ready to cover their walls with art. The point was 209 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: to sell the excess stock of the Goopeel Company from Paris. 210 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: The technology of making reproductions had improved to the point 211 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: that many more a much larger quantity of reproductions could 212 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 1: be made could be manufactured. Did reproductions usually mean engravings? 213 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: Originally it meant engravings, but by this time there were lithographs, 214 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: which were the cheapest and easiest to produce in the 215 00:13:55,880 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: largest quality, and etchings and media. At the same time. Though, 216 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: in the eighteen forties when this store opened, someone was 217 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: painting right, even in America. Thomas cole A should b 218 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: drand the whole school in school, then Coloss Let us 219 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: not forget the German American Immanuel Leitza who painted the 220 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: famous Washington crossing the Delaware right. In fact, goo Pelee 221 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: made reproductions of the painting in all sizes in Paris 222 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: and sent them to America, where they sold like hock kicks. 223 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: Mark Twain famously said that if General Washington had known 224 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: the extent of reproductions that were going to be made 225 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: of his image, he'd have thought twice about crossing the 226 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: Delaware in the first place. How did Michael Nodler get involved. 227 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: When Goopeelee and Shouts had a serious disagreement over how 228 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,479 Speaker 1: profits from the New York Gallery, We're going to be divided. 229 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: Chow's quit and set up his own business, and Michael 230 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: Nodler was dispatched here to continue on in eighteen fifty two, 231 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: how would you describe the store's evolution from selling reproductions 232 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: to actual paintings for the store to become the first 233 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: real art gallery in New York gradual, and then it 234 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: kind of starts to really pick up steam in the eighties. 235 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: Then you have this extraordinary kind of explosion for the 236 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: next thirty years of them bringing major, major pictures, Goya, Turner, 237 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: I mean, just these legendary names of incredible quality to America. 238 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: Did a few collectors become the lynchpins of notary success? 239 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: I'm thinking Henry Clay Frick, for one, the great steel industrialist. Frick, 240 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: for many years was Noler's biggest client. The first painting 241 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: he bought was four and immediately afterwards he began buying 242 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: in real quantity, and his close association with the Knodler 243 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: Gallery lasted for the rest of his lifetime, in other words, 244 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: until when he died, and when he died. Charles Carstairs, 245 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: the man who had sold him the first painting, was 246 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: a pall bearer at his funeral. Michael K. Nodler made 247 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: the gallery grow, and so did his sons. As it did, 248 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: it began moving uptown, up along Broadway, then over to 249 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: Fifth Avenue, following the city's own restless course. The location 250 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: of the store was important for two reasons. First, it 251 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: was in Little Farge buildings. The choice of the location 252 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: was determined by a network of French people in New York, 253 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 1: one of whom was the father of Jean LeFarge, the artist, 254 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: who was a real estate investor, a successful real estate 255 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: investor in early New York. Secondly, due to the rise 256 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: of department stores in Paris in the mid nineteenth century, 257 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: which is where they really began in the form that 258 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: we know them today, it was clear to all concern 259 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: that it was a good idea to be located near 260 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 1: a department store, because that's where everybody went for every 261 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: last little thing. As the Nodlers migrated, they started taking 262 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: on more original art, even oil paintings. They sold to 263 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: the founders of New American fortunes Erbilt's Asters and Rockefeller's 264 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: all frequented Kndler, so did Henry Flagler of Standard Oil 265 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 1: and sugar refiner H. O. Have Ameyer. In the course 266 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: of two days, railroad magnate Jay Gould bought twenty two pictures. 267 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: All of these grandees had more than paintings on the 268 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:23,880 Speaker 1: walls of their brand new mansions. They had collections. Then, 269 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: in the early nineteen twenties, the dashing Roland Ballet, a 270 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 1: Knodler on his mother's side, came from Paris in his 271 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: twenties to work at the family business. The last of 272 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: the Ndler family directors, Roland had no choice, really, but 273 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: to join the store when he came of age. Roland 274 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: liked to recall that his very first memory of meeting 275 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: an artist came when he was just five. His parents 276 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: brought him to the Parisian countryside of State of Verny 277 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: to have lunch with Claude Monet. They brought a ham 278 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 1: that got sliced at a table in the arden. For 279 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: the rest of his life, Roland would remember the white 280 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: bearded artist eating the ham and looking at him with 281 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: kindly eyes against a backdrop of water lilies. Roland arrived 282 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: in New York in n at the age of twenty two, 283 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:20,880 Speaker 1: drinking most of the way with Pierre Matisse, the artist's son, 284 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 1: who would remain a lifelong pal. He came bearing other 285 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: friendships with some of Paris's best contemporary artists, brac Lege 286 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: and Picasso. To his chagrin, he found his older family 287 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: members in New York underwhelmed by the paintings he brought. 288 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: Put them in the basement. They told him when he 289 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: showed them the new Cubist that Paris had embraced, the 290 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: children will take them. The Knoedler wasn't avant garde, as 291 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 1: its family directors reminded Roland. It solved the art of 292 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 1: its times, or, perhaps more accurately, it sold the art 293 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,479 Speaker 1: of the times it's buyers embraced, which tended to be 294 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: a decade or two behind contemporary art. Roland had no 295 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 1: choice but to guit his teeth and sell his clients 296 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: what they wanted. In the aftermath of World War Two, 297 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 1: a new school of art arose to show its devastation 298 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: the often brutal, sweeping brushstrokes of abstract expressionism. Yet Noodler 299 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: kept its distance, as painters like Jackson Pollock and William 300 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: Dacooning Clifford still Barnett Newman and Mark Rothko rose with 301 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: a new generation of dealers, namely Betty Parsons, Sidney Janie 302 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: and Leo Castelli. These were the groundbreaking dealers of the 303 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:45,360 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties. Very few people were buying contemporary art. If 304 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: Pollock hadn't had Peggy Guggenheim, he would have starved. They 305 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: were all starving in the fifties. They really weren't, not 306 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: until sort of Andy Warhol started to make money out 307 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: of art under Rolla Ballet. The Knodler was running out 308 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: of steam. Having missed the post war era, it went 309 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 1: on to overlook pop art too. By the end of 310 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 1: the sixties, it had moved to One East, then proceeded 311 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 1: to spend so much money renovating its newly acquired mansion 312 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: that it nearly went broke. The Knodler needed an angel, 313 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: someone far more deep pocketed than Roland Ballet. In nineteen 314 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: seventy one, the Knodler found that angel in Armand Hammer, 315 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: the billionaire industrialist. Knowing how financially imperiled Rollan Ballet's ndler was, 316 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,719 Speaker 1: Hammer bought the gallery for two point five million dollars 317 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy one. For that modest sum Hammer got 318 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 1: Knodler's business, its artists, its reputation and history. He also 319 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 1: got the Italian Renaissance mansion at nineteen East seventieth Street. 320 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: Not long after that deal, Hammer would buy the adjacent 321 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: mansion at one East sevente Street. For Hammer, the deal 322 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: was as much about real estate as art. Hammer hired 323 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 1: one of his two grandsons, Michael, to run the gallery 324 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: as part of a family foundation. Incidentally, Michael's son, Army Hammer, 325 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: would become a well known Hollywood actor. Still, Michael Hammer 326 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:24,439 Speaker 1: needed top rate dealers who could finally bring contemporary artists 327 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: to Musty Old Noler. He found them in Lawrence Reuben 328 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 1: and John Richardson. Reuben was a widely respected private dealer 329 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: whose artists included Richard Deepencorn, Robert Motherwell, and Robert Rauschenberg. 330 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 1: Larry Ruben was very famous because he was the brother 331 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: of Bill Ruben, who I had actually worked for in 332 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: the seventies. They were arguably two of the most important 333 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: people in the entire art work or. Bill Ruben was 334 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: the chief curator of the Museum of Modern Art, and 335 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: that was a time when the chief curator of the 336 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: Museum of Modern Art was more important than any director anywhere, 337 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: and the fact that his brother actually ran Kndler was 338 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: a let's say, a subject of both admiration and envy 339 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: and some sort of I would say snarkiness because people 340 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: would say, well, Bill Rubens having a big Frank Stella 341 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: show at the Museum of Modern Art, which would of 342 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 1: course make Frank Stella's incredibly valuable. And at the same 343 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:47,919 Speaker 1: time Stella was represented by his brother who was running 344 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 1: the Kndler gallery, So there was some more than whispering 345 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: about conflict of interest, but um, it was evaded by 346 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: Bill Ruben very effectively. We'll be back in a minute. 347 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: Larry brought with him a number of artists who really, 348 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: almost overnight, returned the not Aler to some sort of eminence. 349 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm thinking of obviously Stella, as you mentioned, 350 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: Deven Corn, Richard Depon Corn, another huge coup. And wasn't 351 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: Robert Rauschenberg there for at least part of the time, Yes, 352 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 1: I think Rauschenberg was there, and mother, well, you know, 353 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: abstract Expressionism was Bill and Larry's kind of sweet spot, 354 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 1: and so you know, those artists were artists that were 355 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:48,120 Speaker 1: celebrated the Museum of Modern art and celebrated, and I'm 356 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: sure ensured Ndler's financial viability and success at that time. 357 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: Along with Larry Reuben, Michael Hammer's other heavy gun was 358 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: John Cherson, an english born critic, curator, Picasso biographer, and 359 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: men about town. He told naughty stories about wealthy people 360 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: and made them clamor for more. Along with handling artists 361 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 1: he brought to Knodler himself. Richardson was induced to take 362 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: on Salvador Dolly, or as he came to put it, 363 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: to join the Dolly team. Dolly had been with k 364 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 1: Noodler since the nineteen twenties, when Roland Ballet had brought 365 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: him in. Roland's wife, Pelisse, tells the story of how 366 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 1: he brought Dolly Toner. Roland was a very good friend 367 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: of Christian Dio since they were young, and Christian Dio 368 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: was had a little gallery in Paris, and he and 369 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 1: Rollan had lunch one day and Dior said him, you know, 370 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: I'm representing a Spanish artist. I'm having a show of 371 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 1: his right now. Would you come to the gallery after lunch? 372 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: And Rolland said sure, I'd love to. And he went 373 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,199 Speaker 1: to the gallery and looked at the paintings and It 374 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: was this young Spanish artist named Salvador Dolly, And of 375 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: course Nodler Gallery was a big deal gallery, and Christian 376 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: Dior just had this little thing. And he said to 377 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: Rolland do you really like him? He said, yes, I 378 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: like his work very much. And Dior said, would you 379 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: be interested in taking him on for Ndler? And Rolland said, 380 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 1: I really would. I'd like to meet him and I'd 381 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: like to to see more of his work. And that's 382 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: what happened, and his Rolland always tells the story. I 383 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: took Dolly to Ndler, and Christian Dior went onto the 384 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: dress business. Dolly's health was fragile now, but the old 385 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: surrealist remained immensely popular and sold out bi annual shows 386 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: at Nodler with a little help from the staff. In 387 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: an interview for Vanity Fair, Richardson described Dolly's poignant situation. 388 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: It was fascinating because he couldn't draw anymore. Richardson recalled 389 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 1: of Dolly his hands were too weak for him to 390 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: do the work. All he could do was sign his name. 391 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: His eyes had gone. To put Dolly in a good mood, 392 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: the staff would bring female models down to the basement 393 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 1: have them undress and tell them to roll around naked 394 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: on large pieces of rolling paper smeared with blue paint. 395 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: For one show, Dolly had the idea to do holograms 396 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: of his own work, but he hadn't made them yet. 397 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 1: Richardson explained, in order to do them, we had to 398 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: find some original dollies. So Roland and I went down 399 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: to the basement and we found a bunch of old 400 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 1: nineteen century sculpture of no great distinction. We got someone 401 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: to paint antlers on a loaf of bread and other 402 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: surrealist cliches, and this crap sold. Dolly's only contribution was 403 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: a huge signature, because that's all he could do anymore. 404 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,680 Speaker 1: It was, in its way a kind of art world fraud, 405 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: except that the clay lumps and the blue painted paper 406 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: and the holograms were at least touched and blessed by 407 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: the artist, and buyers, foolish as they might be, more 408 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: or less new what they were buying. Coincidentally, it was 409 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: at a Salvador Dolly opening at the Knodler Gallery in 410 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 1: Night where Philly Say first laid eyes on Roland Dalet. 411 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: As she recalls, it was love at first sight. It 412 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,679 Speaker 1: was a Dolly opening I was representing Dolly at the 413 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: time in the United States, and I went with his 414 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: manager and his wife and we went to the gallery 415 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: and as I walked in, I saw this man at 416 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: the end of the gallery and I just thought to myself, 417 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: my god, that's the man of my life. I was 418 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: married at the time you were married. Yes, he was 419 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: married without don know how many mistresses, and there were 420 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: thirty eight years between you. Yes, he was so delightfully charming. 421 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: This is European elegance like doesn't exist anymore, didn't even 422 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: really exist then. It was five years later, in ninety three, 423 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: when Philice Say was arriving at Michael Hammer's gallery to 424 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: meet a client for lunch, when fate would bring the 425 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 1: two back together, this time for good. I went to 426 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: the gallery and we were up on the second floor 427 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: and the elevator opened and then off the elevator came 428 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: Roll on and I was like, oh my god, and 429 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: I said, I've been in Paris for three months. If 430 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,479 Speaker 1: I can't pull this off today, there's something definitely wrong 431 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: with me. At the end of lunch, we got up 432 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: and rolland came over to me and he said, you know, 433 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed having lunch with you. I find you charming, 434 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: but I would like it if we could have lunch 435 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,719 Speaker 1: just the two of us. Would you do that? And 436 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: I said, just tell me when, And we had lunch 437 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: the next day and really practically didn't separate from that moment. On. 438 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: With the sale of Knodler to armand Hammer, Roland Ballet 439 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: began organizing his exit. He married Philie Say she at 440 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: he at sixty six, and the two moved to Paris. 441 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: They lived like the newly weds. They were oblivious to 442 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: their nearly four decade age difference until armand Hammer disrupted 443 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: their idol. Hammer owed a third and final payment to 444 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: Ballet to complete his purchase of the Ndler Gallery and 445 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: simply refused to make it. Roland was appalled. He never 446 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: thought armand Hammer would be so awful and such a crook, 447 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: Phelice Say recalled later. A judge had to intervene. We 448 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: were in Paris and we got this call from his 449 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: lawyer that Almand Hamma was going to be in New 450 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: York in two days and he wanted to settle it, 451 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: and Roland, if he really wanted to do, they should 452 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: come to New York. So we dropped everything and flew 453 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: to New York. Roland went to court and Hamma was 454 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: there and the thing was he said, yes, you know, 455 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: I'll settle in. And Roland said, I I have to 456 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: go back to France and I have things to do, 457 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: and if you want to settle it, I want a 458 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: bank check for it by the end of the day. Today. 459 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: Hammer gave the check. By the end of the day, 460 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: the bank check, and we went back to Paris. Sick 461 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: of the art business, Roland Ballet resigned as Ndler's director 462 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: and settled in to enjoy what would prove to be 463 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: more years of conjugal bliss with his young and adoring wife. 464 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: He owned one of the two buildings on East sevent Street, 465 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: number twenty one, which would eventually pass to Philly Say 466 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: and be sold by her in two thousand eleven for 467 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: fifteen and a half million dollars, but he rarely came 468 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: to the gallery anymore. So he almost certainly failed to 469 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 1: notice a nine year old salesperson who joined Nodler in December. 470 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: Her name was Ann Friedman, and her impact on the 471 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: gallery would be both profound and tragic. Over many of 472 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 1: its one fifty plus years, the Knoedler had been a living, 473 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: breathing presence, a character in the story of twenty century art. 474 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: Its fortunes had risen and sometimes dipped, but its reputation 475 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: remained intact, and the employees who chose to work there 476 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: for modest salaries were personally devoted to it. They would 477 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: find in Ann Friedman a very different kind of gallerists, 478 00:32:54,920 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: one much more focused on money that art. Over a 479 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: fourteen year period, and Freedman oversaw the selling of more 480 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: than sixty disputed paintings, reaping eighty million dollars for the gallery, 481 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: a trio of forgers, and Freedman herself to the shock 482 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: and scorn of the entire contemporary art market. She even 483 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 1: managed to open a new gallery, Friedman Arts, on the 484 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: third floor of a townhouse on East seventy third Street, 485 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 1: next door to the chik Via Quadrono restaurant. She goes 486 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: up and down those stairs every day, a free woman, 487 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: but a shunned presence in this neighborhood of world renowned dealers. 488 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 1: We're coming back from Frank Stella's studio and you got 489 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: a call, and now he's boiling. He wants to kill her. 490 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 1: That's next time on art Fraud. Come with me I'm 491 00:33:52,520 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: you know, world of pure imagineation. Mhm. Take coll and 492 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 1: you see into your imagination. Art Fraud is brought to 493 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 1: you by iHeart Radio and Cavalry Audio. Our executive producers 494 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,719 Speaker 1: are Matt del Piano, Keegan Rosenberger, Andy Turner, myself, and 495 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:29,280 Speaker 1: Michael Snayerson. We're produced by Brandon Morgan and Zach McNeice. 496 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: Zach also edited and mixed this episode. Lindsay Hoffman is 497 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: our managing producer. Our writer is Michael Schneerson. If you 498 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: want to view paradized, simply look around and fu you 499 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: think you want. I want to change the world. There's 500 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:09,239 Speaker 1: nothing O, there is no life. I go to