Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, home of the
Speaker 1: modern white tail hunter and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast. I'm your guest
Speaker 1: host Tony Peterson. Today I'm joined by Bree Lewis to
Speaker 1: discuss Florida white tail hunting, traditional archery, and developing an
Speaker 1: adventurous hunting mindset. All right, folks, welcome to the Wire
Speaker 1: to Hunt podcast, which is brought to you by First Light.
Speaker 1: You might notice that this is not the voice of
Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. He's off at a Miley Cyrus concert in
Speaker 1: Memphis with Spencer new Hearth, where, at least according to
Speaker 1: his latest text to me, Spencer paid up for the
Speaker 1: meet and greet, So that's a nice little treat for
Speaker 1: the boys. Today. My guest is Bree Lewis, who is
Speaker 1: a big game hunting guide in New Zealand as well
Speaker 1: as an outdoor writer. Bree grew up bow hunting Florida
Speaker 1: white tails with her father, Tim, who is the author
Speaker 1: of several great bow hunting books and a real student
Speaker 1: of nature. While Breeze started off hunting with compounds, mostly
Speaker 1: from stands and blinds, she quickly developed a love for
Speaker 1: traditional archery and still hunting, which is a craft she
Speaker 1: honed in the swamps of Florida but now uses in
Speaker 1: New Zealand, which surprisingly has two huntable populations of white tails.
Speaker 1: There's a crazy story behind that, which Brie shares with me.
Speaker 1: In addition to a lot of really interesting conversation. I
Speaker 1: had an absolute blast talking to her, and I think
Speaker 1: you're gonna love the show. But I gotta give you
Speaker 1: a heads up that I actually recorded this with Bree
Speaker 1: way back in July. Mark and I got our signals
Speaker 1: crossed on this one, and we didn't really have a
Speaker 1: place for the show then, but we do now. So
Speaker 1: keep in mind if it seems like our seasonal timing
Speaker 1: is off a little, it's because we had this conversation
Speaker 1: it was in the middle of the summer. Other than that,
Speaker 1: I think you're really gonna love this episode. Free Lewis.
Speaker 1: I am so excited to talk to you today. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm excited to talk to you too, Tony. You are
Speaker 1: living a lifestyle that is pretty wild and we were
Speaker 1: just we're just talking off air about how how I
Speaker 1: show I show my little girls, my little nine year
Speaker 1: old girls, your little social media post and stuff all
Speaker 1: the time because I'm like, look at what this girl
Speaker 1: is doing. And I really want to get into kind
Speaker 1: of how your life has you know, hunting has been
Speaker 1: such a central theme of it, and you've really taken
Speaker 1: off with it, like you you You've said, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go do crazy wild things with hunting, and that's it's
Speaker 1: so cool. I want to talk to you about that.
Speaker 1: But let's talk about growing up in Florida as a
Speaker 1: the daughter of a crazy traditional bowl hunter who I love. Uh,
Speaker 1: what what was it like? Was it always hunting for
Speaker 1: you even growing up as a little girl down there
Speaker 1: in Florida. Yeah, my dad's just started taking me into
Speaker 1: the woods, whether it was for hunting or catching snakes
Speaker 1: or you know, looking at birds, just appreciating Florida nature
Speaker 1: and being outdoors. And I started hunting pretty young. Um
Speaker 1: my dad will remember the exact age. But I wanted
Speaker 1: a gun, and he made me wait till I think
Speaker 1: I was six, um, in order to start hunting. And
Speaker 1: there's there's no I know, some of the states have
Speaker 1: laws about the age that you can get in to
Speaker 1: um firearms and hunting. But I shot my first pig
Speaker 1: that year. Um, And yeah, what were you using for
Speaker 1: a gun? It was it twenty two? Yeah? No, no,
Speaker 1: I can't remember how big, but it was a bore. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it was. It was decent um. There's a bit
Speaker 1: of a story. I don't know if this is okay
Speaker 1: to say. Anyway, Yeah, it was a pretty independent sort
Speaker 1: of experience actually, So that was cool. Are you gonna
Speaker 1: just leave it hanging at that? Yeah? Yeah, you were
Speaker 1: an independent six year old with twenty two and you
Speaker 1: were hunting pigs and you've got one. I was with
Speaker 1: my I was with my dad. There's just some piglets
Speaker 1: that came by and I wanted one as a pet.
Speaker 1: And anyway, yep, so you you were hunting pigs, trying
Speaker 1: to kill a pig, but also maybe eyeball and some
Speaker 1: little porkers running through there as potentially to grab and
Speaker 1: take home to raise for my dad to grab for me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and did he grab one? Yes? I think so. So
Speaker 1: all right, well, I can tell that I'm gonna have
Speaker 1: to just pull this out of you. So what happens
Speaker 1: to this pig that that Tim catches? Well, I think
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure because he left me and I
Speaker 1: asked if a boar came by, if I could chewed
Speaker 1: it and Um, then I saw it and I think
Speaker 1: he came running back. So, um, yeah, so you set
Speaker 1: your dad off on a pet pig catching mission while
Speaker 1: you're still hunting there? Uh, this is this? I love this.
Speaker 1: How old are you by way twenty six? This might
Speaker 1: be something we need to edit out. We're absolutely leaving
Speaker 1: this end. So you you did something this this it's
Speaker 1: a wild story, but it's going to you're You're gonna
Speaker 1: tell us some other stuff here soon. I'm sure about
Speaker 1: your being raised down there and the way you were
Speaker 1: raised that has led to your life decisions. And that's
Speaker 1: one of those things that I love hearing because you know,
Speaker 1: as the father of twin nine year olds, I'm always
Speaker 1: looking like, where are these moments where I can let
Speaker 1: them have some independence and make some decisions with consequences,
Speaker 1: because they're gonna hunt, like you know, whether they take
Speaker 1: to it or not, they're gonna get their chances. And
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's up to the parent to
Speaker 1: decide is is six too young? Or is eight too young?
Speaker 1: Or is nine too young? Where where's my kid at?
Speaker 1: Obviously your dad trusted you there. Yeah, I think it
Speaker 1: depends on out on the individual. Like I was probably mature,
Speaker 1: and I think girls mature a bit understanding consequences, probably
Speaker 1: a bit earlier than boys in some cases. But it's
Speaker 1: all on the individual. And I had hunted with my dad.
Speaker 1: That wasn't my first opportunity and at a pig. Um,
Speaker 1: this is all like him telling me the story later.
Speaker 1: I don't really remember things from back then, but there
Speaker 1: were chances, I guess where there are pigs that I
Speaker 1: could have shot, but there are cows behind them, and
Speaker 1: I was so worried that I might accidentally wound a
Speaker 1: cow that if it was in that direction, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: choot the pig. So there are opportunities where he saw
Speaker 1: me make decisions that were smart, and we talked about him,
Speaker 1: so I think he felt pretty comfortable by that stage.
Speaker 1: Was it was this kind of hunting scenario. This, This
Speaker 1: wasn't probably out of a ground blind twenty years ago, then,
Speaker 1: was it? I mean you're probably like, were you tucked
Speaker 1: into the pal meadows or something? Do you know? I
Speaker 1: can't honestly remember now, you don't remember if there was
Speaker 1: a like a actual ground line there or not. I
Speaker 1: don't know. We weren't in a blind. Yeah, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's probably what it was when did when did he
Speaker 1: get into shooting traditional bows before that? Um, I'll send
Speaker 1: you a photo of it. I would probably have been
Speaker 1: three or four, and I'm wearing a little tiara and
Speaker 1: I have my first traditional bow, and I remember I
Speaker 1: took it in to kindergarten to show and tell and
Speaker 1: I broke it because I tried to string it myself
Speaker 1: in front of the class. It's pretty heartbreaking, but yep.
Speaker 1: So that was my first traditional bow and then I
Speaker 1: just had heaps of other ones, and uh, I got
Speaker 1: into shooting fish. So that was the first thing. I
Speaker 1: grew up on a canal that you saw and mullet
Speaker 1: would come by and I chewed him off the dock
Speaker 1: with wood arrows so they'd float once the fish died up,
Speaker 1: and then I'd go swim outing retrieve him. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I love that, And this comes your Your dad is
Speaker 1: is Tim Lewis, and he's he's a bow hunting writer,
Speaker 1: he's a bow hunting author, he's a he's a hardcore
Speaker 1: traditional bow hunter in a in a real student of nature.
Speaker 1: He's such a cool guy. Uh he was he always
Speaker 1: traditional archery? Did he did he ever hunt with compounds
Speaker 1: that you remember? Yes, so my mom and I she
Speaker 1: she bought it. I was pretty young. Um, we got
Speaker 1: him a compound bow after he had an injury, and
Speaker 1: he thought that that was the way to go, was
Speaker 1: to try to shoot hunt with a compound bot. But
Speaker 1: I don't even think he made it a whole season
Speaker 1: with it, and he went back to traditional archery. So
Speaker 1: he's into it and you just took to that. Have
Speaker 1: you have you ever hunted with a compound or has
Speaker 1: it always been traditional for you? Yeah? So I wasn't
Speaker 1: strong enough to pull back a traditional boat. I started
Speaker 1: bow hunting, I think when I was twelve, for dear,
Speaker 1: and so he got me a compound bow and yep,
Speaker 1: away from there, and I stuck with it all through.
Speaker 1: I wanted to go to traditional bow, but I didn't
Speaker 1: put the time into practicing, so I just you know,
Speaker 1: season would come up and I'd want to go hunting,
Speaker 1: and I just stuck with the compound as a bit
Speaker 1: of a crutch. So I just started going into the
Speaker 1: traditional bow. Now that I've been over in New Zealand
Speaker 1: and games like readily available. There's no seasons or anything,
Speaker 1: no tags, so it's a great opportunity. So you didn't
Speaker 1: when you were growing up bow hunting those swamp white
Speaker 1: tilS down there. You were always hunting with a compound.
Speaker 1: Well no, okay, So when I was at school, um
Speaker 1: at uf, I started getting into the mounted darchery, so
Speaker 1: that motivated me to practice more with the traditional style
Speaker 1: bow and that's when I started. So I did shoot
Speaker 1: one white tail in Florida with a trad bow, which
Speaker 1: was pretty cool. Nice when you when you start. So
Speaker 1: you said you started when you were twelve white till
Speaker 1: hunting down there. Yes, how long did it take you
Speaker 1: to kill your first year? I was in eighth grade,
Speaker 1: so it would have been probably two seasons without shooting anything.
Speaker 1: And I never went to a gun, like even the
Speaker 1: last week in a season, I stuck with my bow.
Speaker 1: So I just loved it. Were you hunting, because I
Speaker 1: don't know, your dad doesn't hunt over feeders, does he? No? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so he's hunting natural brows and natural natural food, natural
Speaker 1: movement down there. Yeah, and I'm assuming you were too, Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so just falling in my dad's footsteps kind of. And um,
Speaker 1: I really liked early season hunting because the deer feeding
Speaker 1: on the acorns from the scrub oaks and they're out
Speaker 1: in really good country for bush stocking um, which that's
Speaker 1: my New Zealand term for still hunting. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they go bush stocking here, but pretty much, um, just
Speaker 1: walking through those scrub oak areas and it's really quiet
Speaker 1: because we have that white sugar stand so it's quiet.
Speaker 1: There's palm front clumps in these little scattered groups of
Speaker 1: scrub oaks, um, and it's actually good chance to stalk
Speaker 1: a deer, which is a really hard beat with a bow.
Speaker 1: So is that how you killed your first one? No,
Speaker 1: My first year was in the winter, and that was
Speaker 1: from a stand in the swamp, so it was like
Speaker 1: completely water under where I shot her. Um. Yeah. But
Speaker 1: the other thing is we're hunting on private land. We
Speaker 1: have fourteen members on the hunting club and most of
Speaker 1: them are rifle hunters. So archer season was kind of
Speaker 1: our free range. We could walk around and we didn't
Speaker 1: worry about messing up other hunters versus during the rifle season,
Speaker 1: we stuck to one area a bit more because we
Speaker 1: didn't want to mess up other rifle hunters. Was that
Speaker 1: part of the reason why you liked the early season
Speaker 1: as well? Yeah, And and probably just for a young
Speaker 1: person sometimes it's hard to sit still for a while. Like, um,
Speaker 1: I used to only be able to hunt until nine
Speaker 1: or something in the morning, because then I'd be ready
Speaker 1: to go do something active. But of course as I
Speaker 1: got older, I it was so exciting just being in
Speaker 1: a spot where I felt like there was a potential.
Speaker 1: I was quite happy to stay all day if I
Speaker 1: felt like it was good. So when when did you
Speaker 1: kill your your first one is still hunting down there.
Speaker 1: I don't know, because after I killed my first year,
Speaker 1: I had a bit of a good run um with does.
Speaker 1: So our club had restrictions for bucks. They had to
Speaker 1: be I think it was a hundred oh I'm thinking
Speaker 1: of score, but it would have been I think fifteen
Speaker 1: inch main beams and fifteen inch spread and a four
Speaker 1: points on one side. Um. And then it changed and
Speaker 1: they had to be also over four and a half
Speaker 1: years old. So we had a lot of restrictions on
Speaker 1: the type of bucks that we could take, and I
Speaker 1: was always, I guess, wanting to air on the side
Speaker 1: of caution. So there were some bucks that I took
Speaker 1: photos of and showed my dad later and he was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I would have shot that, And I was like, well,
Speaker 1: what so this is this is a world that probably
Speaker 1: a lot of people, a lot of the white sail
Speaker 1: hunters listening to this, probably have never experienced a hunting club.
Speaker 1: And you know that those kind of restrictions they're very
Speaker 1: common in those kind of places or those kind of
Speaker 1: leases and situations. And but but a lot of people
Speaker 1: outside of the South don't deal with that. I mean
Speaker 1: when you were you know, you grew up with that,
Speaker 1: so you probably that was just what you dealt with.
Speaker 1: But as like a young bull hunter out there who's like, man,
Speaker 1: I really want to shoot something, it was probably pretty frustrating. Huh.
Speaker 1: It wasn't frustrating because I I'm probably more trigger happy
Speaker 1: now than I've ever been, just getting into the idea
Speaker 1: that you can shoot a lot in game. Animals here
Speaker 1: are considered pest, so um, it's actually encouraged in some ways.
Speaker 1: But yeah, when I was young, because I always grew
Speaker 1: up with those restrictions, I was never too worried or concerned.
Speaker 1: I liked being out in the woods and hunting was
Speaker 1: what motivated me to spend time out there. But um,
Speaker 1: it was a great hunt. If I saw a raccoon
Speaker 1: eating things in the tree next to me or you know,
Speaker 1: it's all the other wildlife that I saw, and if
Speaker 1: I saw a deer that was so exciting it didn't
Speaker 1: matter if I shot them or not. But having the
Speaker 1: camera and trying to get photos of them was pretty
Speaker 1: rewarding too, because you feel like I was that close
Speaker 1: and I did the movement to get my camera out,
Speaker 1: I probably could have gotten a shot at that animal
Speaker 1: if I had wanted to. So you kind of your
Speaker 1: early years are kind of like mine, where you know,
Speaker 1: we we were primarily sitting in tree stands for white
Speaker 1: tails are sitting on the ground. But I was like
Speaker 1: you a d h D to the max, Like I
Speaker 1: don't want to sit here for hours and hours and
Speaker 1: hours and so sneaking around and still hunting. You know,
Speaker 1: when I when I was growing up, still hunting was
Speaker 1: like a very talked about and you know it was
Speaker 1: it was put into practice by a lot of people.
Speaker 1: It's really not that popular now, at least for white tails.
Speaker 1: It's not. Yeah. Um, well, like I said, my experience
Speaker 1: hunting white tails has all been on private land on
Speaker 1: that lease. But I enjoyed the still hunting aspects so
Speaker 1: much that I started setting my stands for opportunities for
Speaker 1: still hunting. So it's kind of similar actually, tell how
Speaker 1: I hunt the mountain country here in New Zealand. So
Speaker 1: I'd find an area with good sign around me, so
Speaker 1: still a chance of being able to shoot something for
Speaker 1: my from my stand, but also in areas where I
Speaker 1: could see other you know, scrub boaks that were dropping,
Speaker 1: in areas where I could plan a stock on something
Speaker 1: that doesn't look like it's going to be feeding by me,
Speaker 1: and just the terrain of that scrub country. So cool
Speaker 1: because it's actually possible to do a stock you have
Speaker 1: silent footing and lots of little clumps to go to.
Speaker 1: And yeah, so that was cool. I mean the thing
Speaker 1: that you know when you when you hunt in some
Speaker 1: of the locations you hunt, or you know where you're
Speaker 1: working down in New Zealand or you go out west
Speaker 1: here in the States, you know it's spotting and stocking,
Speaker 1: and you know it's it's very so common, right, and
Speaker 1: you just realize like, yeah, you know, if I see
Speaker 1: a meal there in the right situation, I can totally
Speaker 1: creep in on it. But we don't because of where
Speaker 1: white tails live and we don't see them better as
Speaker 1: often as some of these other credits. It's kind of
Speaker 1: like you forget how stalkable they can be, and if
Speaker 1: you if you can move around and pay attention to
Speaker 1: the wind and and stay quiet, they're totally stalkable. It's
Speaker 1: just not it's so much harder to find the situation. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And it's in the in the right situation and in
Speaker 1: the right country because as it the time of the
Speaker 1: year changes and they're more in the swamps and thicker areas.
Speaker 1: It's pretty much I wouldn't say it possible, but I've
Speaker 1: never shot one in that situation stocking. I've tried. I tried,
Speaker 1: but I haven't been successful. So yeah, it's just not
Speaker 1: it's a it's an opportunity thing that you know, there's
Speaker 1: certain situations where you know, if you're hunting Western river
Speaker 1: bottoms or something, it's it could come up, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've had it. I've I've I've killed a
Speaker 1: few in my life. I killed one really good buck
Speaker 1: one time, stocking him and that kind of what you're
Speaker 1: talking about. I was sitting there in an early season
Speaker 1: on a pond and he just walked the other side
Speaker 1: and then went out to start feeding, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I can just crawl through this cornfield and catch up
Speaker 1: to him and did and it just worked. But it
Speaker 1: was like kind of just fell into my lap, and
Speaker 1: it was like, well, you have the you have the route,
Speaker 1: you have everything working in your favor. You might as
Speaker 1: well try it. But it's you know, it's so often
Speaker 1: with white tails, especially now, where most people are going
Speaker 1: to see that and they're not going to do anything,
Speaker 1: or they're going to try to call it in and
Speaker 1: you know, that might work, that might not. But there
Speaker 1: are situation where you can just get down and go
Speaker 1: to those suckers well, and there's a lot of situations
Speaker 1: where you can't too. And I probably, well, there's a
Speaker 1: lot more failing stories than successful stories, even in that scrub,
Speaker 1: and I learned the hard way a bit about white
Speaker 1: tail behavior. I can remember one story that's just really
Speaker 1: really clear. It was a beautiful ten point buck and
Speaker 1: he was gorgeous, and I think I had seen him
Speaker 1: from a distance before and already knew that he could
Speaker 1: be in that area. Um, and he came by me
Speaker 1: and just kept on walking and never gave me a
Speaker 1: shot at like thirty yards And I was hunting with
Speaker 1: a compound bow at that time, so it was like
Speaker 1: just doable range for me, but not he never gave
Speaker 1: me an opportunity. Fed under an oak, and then he
Speaker 1: was out of my range and he just wouldn't feed closer,
Speaker 1: wouldn't feed closer, and he continued on and I was
Speaker 1: so upset, and I decided I was going to get
Speaker 1: down and try to intersect him on the other side
Speaker 1: of that little scrub oak patch. And uh, of course,
Speaker 1: right when I'm getting down, he comes back because they
Speaker 1: feed around and comes and comes right back where I
Speaker 1: could have saw him if I'd just stayed in my stand,
Speaker 1: but instead I was moving and he saw me, and
Speaker 1: who's gone? And that was it. So I was I
Speaker 1: was really heartbroken over that, because you just you put
Speaker 1: so much time into finding the spot, finding on the
Speaker 1: spot with the animal, you get so obsessed with it,
Speaker 1: and then you ruin it and you know, maybe blow
Speaker 1: him out of that old buck like that. Yeah, it sucks.
Speaker 1: He might not be coming back there, but that's a
Speaker 1: I mean, what you bring up is a good point.
Speaker 1: I actually wrote about that this morning for a piece
Speaker 1: I've got for Meat Eater coming out later, where I
Speaker 1: realized how often when you're sitting there. You know, you
Speaker 1: see dear filter through and you're like, okay, they're gone there.
Speaker 1: They headed off to the field, or they headed off wherever.
Speaker 1: And then you know, forty five minutes later you look
Speaker 1: up and see movement and they never left they you know,
Speaker 1: or they swung back around and they're just staging in
Speaker 1: there and just milling around in the cover and they
Speaker 1: didn't go anywhere. So that another I mean, there's an
Speaker 1: asterix on our advice earlier just to get down and
Speaker 1: run after him. Don't always do that, because sometimes they
Speaker 1: didn't go away from you. Yeah, and that that situation
Speaker 1: really taught me. Um, but there's a good chance that
Speaker 1: they will come back and feedback by and things like that,
Speaker 1: and um, most of the time when they feed by me,
Speaker 1: I don't ever run after him. It's more these stands
Speaker 1: that I've set up to actually cover other areas where
Speaker 1: they're probably not going to come to my area after
Speaker 1: that area, or maybe they're going to be feeding down
Speaker 1: window me and then they're definitely not going to come
Speaker 1: to that area. Sort of situation. We're all do that
Speaker 1: a bit longer stock, But um, who knows what's going
Speaker 1: to come by you if you stay there there might
Speaker 1: be something else too, so well, I mean, right, if
Speaker 1: you if you're in a situation where a good buck
Speaker 1: feeds by you, not spooke, not worried, he's just doing
Speaker 1: his thing and his you're in a good area. You
Speaker 1: know you have good things going for you. I have
Speaker 1: to ask you when you you know, when you're growing
Speaker 1: up in your you're spotting, stocking through those palmados, sneaking
Speaker 1: through there, it how much how much fun is it?
Speaker 1: Because one of the reasons that you see that not
Speaker 1: happen a lot in the white tail woods is because
Speaker 1: the only thing we have to hunt is white tails.
Speaker 1: But you've got such a bonus down there with pigs
Speaker 1: when you're when you're doing that, are you like, I know,
Speaker 1: when I'm around pigs, they're always on the menu, Like
Speaker 1: I never if I see him, I'm like laser focused.
Speaker 1: But when you're when you were down there growing up
Speaker 1: having access to them, was it like you're sneaking along
Speaker 1: and you hear pigs or you see them, are like,
Speaker 1: are you immediately going after him? Or you're like, I'm
Speaker 1: sticking to deer. I'm sticking to deer. Real, Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1: I was always sticking to deer because we have the
Speaker 1: opportunity to pig hunt all year around, but we only
Speaker 1: had X amount of ones to because we are on
Speaker 1: private land. Yeah, and the pigs aren't native, we could
Speaker 1: hunt them anytime. So when I was deer hunting, I
Speaker 1: was pretty hardcore about deer hunting. I was probably a
Speaker 1: more obsessed with hunting back then than I am now,
Speaker 1: even though that's what I do know for work and everything.
Speaker 1: But no, it was a big deal to me. Um
Speaker 1: and like even having pigs, under my stand, I would
Speaker 1: hate it because they would scare away the deer, like
Speaker 1: on the acorns and things. But I wasn't going to
Speaker 1: waste time shooting them if I felt like it was
Speaker 1: going to mess up my hunt. So yeah, they don't
Speaker 1: play well together. Huh No, No, definitely not. Definitely not
Speaker 1: on the like you know, any mass food product drawing
Speaker 1: them in, they get a bit I guess territorially aggressive
Speaker 1: over it, so they'll chase the deer off. When I hunted,
Speaker 1: I hunted Florida one time for white tails and there
Speaker 1: were pigs everywhere, and they were like, yeah, you can
Speaker 1: shoot him, you know, but like we're we're here for
Speaker 1: a deer hunt. So I shot one pig like the
Speaker 1: first night or something like that. I couldn't. I couldn't
Speaker 1: handle it. And then after that I just had to
Speaker 1: watch these pigs. I was like, like it it kills
Speaker 1: I don't get opportunities at pigs, you know, and it
Speaker 1: just killed me. I'm like, I don't care about these
Speaker 1: little swamp white tails, Like I'm sitting here just donating
Speaker 1: like leaders of blood to these mosquitoes. Please just let
Speaker 1: me shoot these pigs. But we couldn't. Yeah, well we could.
Speaker 1: It was just round on. You just go to Florida
Speaker 1: over the summer and yeah, go back to Coca Beach
Speaker 1: and I'm sure my dad could help you with pigs.
Speaker 1: Part of the reason I want to talk to you,
Speaker 1: you know, the Southeast in general, is you know, there's
Speaker 1: so many white tail hunters down there, and it's like
Speaker 1: it's for some reason being in the hunting industry, it's
Speaker 1: just like a hard region to represent, Like it's hard
Speaker 1: to find a lot of voices that come out of there,
Speaker 1: even though it's a super popular, you know, it's people
Speaker 1: down there are passionate, and so that's that's part of
Speaker 1: the reason I want to talk to you, because Like
Speaker 1: when I think about going to Florida, I don't think
Speaker 1: about hunting. I'm like, take me fishing. Well, that's it.
Speaker 1: Like the truth is our white tail quality compared to
Speaker 1: the rest of the States is just they're not as impressive.
Speaker 1: So unless you're from Florida and you love hunting the
Speaker 1: Florida swamps and the Florida bush, it's not something that
Speaker 1: you is a destination at all. Like for turkeys, that's
Speaker 1: the only and I guess gators now, um, but that's
Speaker 1: the only reason why Florida would be a hunting destination.
Speaker 1: But if you grow up there and you love hunting
Speaker 1: the swamps and like, it's it's I think it's a
Speaker 1: tough country to hunt. You have, like you're saying, the
Speaker 1: mosquitoes and like uncomfortable heat a lot of the times,
Speaker 1: even in winter, can get pretty miserably hot and things
Speaker 1: like that, and just in the swamp and how thick
Speaker 1: it is and all of that inhospitable environment. I mean,
Speaker 1: it really is. And that's one thing that really opened
Speaker 1: my eyes. So most of the hunting that we did
Speaker 1: down and this was like this is three days of hunting,
Speaker 1: so it's or five days of hunting or whatever. So
Speaker 1: it was like there's a very small glimpse into your world.
Speaker 1: So correct me if I'm wrong. But you know, we
Speaker 1: did we did tree stand hunts on like natural movement,
Speaker 1: and you know, like they had some feeders out there
Speaker 1: in certain places, but it was mostly just like they
Speaker 1: had little food plots and like you know, it's it's swamps,
Speaker 1: so there's like a little high ground and they go
Speaker 1: through here or whatever. But the one day they were
Speaker 1: just like, you know, if you want to go sneak around,
Speaker 1: try to find a pig or find it here, go ahead.
Speaker 1: And you know, so I'm I dropped a pin on
Speaker 1: camp and I'm out there and I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: when you're when you're in the mountains, they say you
Speaker 1: get cliffed out right, Like you you get to a
Speaker 1: spot You're like, I can't go anywhere. I'm gonna die
Speaker 1: if I keep going. So you gotta back out, and
Speaker 1: you can get into trouble because because of the you know,
Speaker 1: the up and down terrain. I was sitting there and
Speaker 1: I'm like I keep getting swamped out like everywhere I go.
Speaker 1: I'm like I'm looking and I'm looking at water that
Speaker 1: has alligators and it like I see them sometimes and
Speaker 1: I'm like, now I don't know where to go, and
Speaker 1: you can't get any elevation. It's so flat that it's
Speaker 1: like it reminds me of being in the in the
Speaker 1: big north Woods where you're just like, I don't really
Speaker 1: have a good bearing and I can't get up and
Speaker 1: see anything. It's it's a really challenging environment that you
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't think until if somebody dropped you in there,
Speaker 1: you'd be like, oh, yeah, this is tough. This is tough.
Speaker 1: And and sometimes like especially on the edge of swamps
Speaker 1: and things, you get bushed out to like it's just
Speaker 1: actually too thick to really get through without making a
Speaker 1: lot of noise and clearing a trail um and it
Speaker 1: takes you way out of the way you'd like to
Speaker 1: go with the wind or the area that you would
Speaker 1: like to try to get to um because you have
Speaker 1: to get around this really really thick briars and vines
Speaker 1: and everything. So, yeah, it's tough. And what surprised me,
Speaker 1: you know, because it's so wet or you know, when
Speaker 1: we were there, you know, you'd get that crazy rain
Speaker 1: for like an hour in the afternoon every day, and
Speaker 1: you know where it would just downpour, and so you'd
Speaker 1: be like, Okay, I should be able to sneak around
Speaker 1: and be quiet. But then the the sun comes out,
Speaker 1: it's a million degrees and then there's pomp like dried
Speaker 1: palm fronds and stuff on the ground, and so you're like,
Speaker 1: like you said, you're caught in the briers, and then
Speaker 1: you're stepping on stuff that's way crunchier than you think
Speaker 1: it should be. And I was just like, this is
Speaker 1: this is legit difficult. So you know, you talk about
Speaker 1: like the quality of deer down there, Yeah, they're little,
Speaker 1: but if you could go down there and consistently sneak
Speaker 1: around and kill them, you could go anywhere where the
Speaker 1: deer were bigger and probably do really well. I think, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's what I think too, And like getting into
Speaker 1: the guiding coming from Florida, I think learning to hunt
Speaker 1: that bush and be aware of a lot of other
Speaker 1: things besides just the game sign because you're aware of
Speaker 1: all the other species that are going to give you
Speaker 1: away and the terrain, it makes you a better hunter
Speaker 1: anywhere that you go. And there's a lot of obstacles
Speaker 1: to solve the problem of getting a white tail in
Speaker 1: Florida and it kind of makes other obstacles not easier,
Speaker 1: but it just helps you learn to figure them out.
Speaker 1: I guess yep. Yeah, easy doesn't make you good, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, it just it does. It easy. It can
Speaker 1: be fun, but challenging makes you good. And you know,
Speaker 1: you know you mentioned you kind of alluded to this earlier.
Speaker 1: And you know, I've bitched about hunting Florida a lot
Speaker 1: because it was it was wild. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: you know, You're sitting in a tree stand and we
Speaker 1: were hunting the end of July, right at the opener
Speaker 1: of the season wherever we were, like Central Florida or
Speaker 1: wherever we were, and I grunted in a buck in
Speaker 1: you know, August one or whenever. It was a little guy,
Speaker 1: and I'm looking at like tree frogs and stuff from
Speaker 1: my stand and little lizards, and I'm like, this is
Speaker 1: not something I could have anywhere else. And so you know, everything,
Speaker 1: you know, you think like, oh, the perfect white tail
Speaker 1: hunt in Iowa November or seventh or whatever. Like there
Speaker 1: there are times when it's just all around awesome and
Speaker 1: very comfortable, But a lot of times the coolest white
Speaker 1: tail hunting you're gonna have there's gonna be something that
Speaker 1: kind of sucks about it, and you just you just
Speaker 1: take that for what it is because of what you
Speaker 1: get out of it as far as the overall experience. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's the thing in Florida, like with your tree frogs,
Speaker 1: and for me it was well, snakes, I like snakes
Speaker 1: and frogs, but I also liked otters a lot and
Speaker 1: raccoons and things as a young person. And I actually
Speaker 1: used to pick my stands and my spots because my
Speaker 1: dad would help me, like find sign and talk to
Speaker 1: me about what was had good potential and things. But
Speaker 1: when it came down to it, he would let me
Speaker 1: pick my my own spots that I was going to
Speaker 1: hunt and help me set up stands there. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I used to pick them not on deer sign, but
Speaker 1: on otter sign because I like to see the otters.
Speaker 1: Oh I'd like I'd like to see a deer too,
Speaker 1: but I think i'd like to have a little bit
Speaker 1: less chance of seeing a deer, but a better chance
Speaker 1: of watching the otters and just you know the whole
Speaker 1: experience being out there. So yeah, well that's the that
Speaker 1: area that you grew up in. There's so much life
Speaker 1: in there. I mean, it's when you're there, there's just
Speaker 1: there's stuff moving constantly, like there's there's always something going on,
Speaker 1: and that's you know that we don't talk about that
Speaker 1: very much, but I'm glad you brought that up because
Speaker 1: that that's sort of the secret sauce of enjoying hunting.
Speaker 1: Like if you're seeing anything, then it's that then it's fun,
Speaker 1: right like, and it doesn't have to be Boone and
Speaker 1: Crockett Bucks. Like if if I challenge anybody to go
Speaker 1: out sit and watch orders do their thing and not
Speaker 1: be like, man, that was freaking cool. That was so cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the other thing is like I hear you talk
Speaker 1: a bit about people looking at their phones and you know,
Speaker 1: everything while they're hunting and not paying attention to their surroundings.
Speaker 1: But if you're watching orders, then you're paying attention to
Speaker 1: your surroundings and you'll be ready for when that buck
Speaker 1: sets out, you know. Yeah. It's I'm to the point
Speaker 1: now where I gotta shut that sucker down and just
Speaker 1: put it away because you know, and it but it's
Speaker 1: it's so worth it and it helps me when I
Speaker 1: you know, like hunting with my little girls, it helps
Speaker 1: me be aware of that pole to just be a
Speaker 1: kid on your phone and you know, like it's yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, and it's an easy crotch, right, like we
Speaker 1: we all do it, like I do it a lot.
Speaker 1: But when I'm with my little girls, like there's something
Speaker 1: to glass or something to watch for, something to explain,
Speaker 1: it just helps me stay in the moment better. And
Speaker 1: I didn't see that coming about taking little kids hunting,
Speaker 1: and I just love it. That's so cool, that's so cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So they're they're not uh bree level uh survivalists, and
Speaker 1: they're not ready for the Florida snakes and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Not a survivalist, but they are. They would they would
Speaker 1: explode down there in the summer and sitting on a
Speaker 1: tree stand, but they would love they love the lizards
Speaker 1: and stuff. Um, you were talking so speaking on that.
Speaker 1: We were talking, you know, before we before we started
Speaker 1: recording here, just just for like a frame of reference. Uh.
Speaker 1: We went down to Florida in March, met up with
Speaker 1: your dad, and by we, I mean my family met
Speaker 1: up with your dad. He took myself, my little girls,
Speaker 1: and my wife's uncle out fishing and we just had
Speaker 1: a freaking blast. With him. It was so fun. And
Speaker 1: you were talking about growing up with those opportunities and
Speaker 1: so not only did you have a dad who took
Speaker 1: you pig hunting and he took you deer hunting and
Speaker 1: out to this hunting club, but you were saying that
Speaker 1: when you were like ten, you had a boat that
Speaker 1: he trusted you to take out. Yeah. Yeah, So in
Speaker 1: Florida at that time, at ten, you could get your
Speaker 1: boaters license or permit or whatever to drive a boat.
Speaker 1: And I went ahead and I did that as soon
Speaker 1: as I was ten, and I he felt like, because
Speaker 1: I had the initiative to go ahead and do that,
Speaker 1: that I should be allowed to take it out. So
Speaker 1: that was really cool. Before that, I was taking out
Speaker 1: canoes with my little friends and we would take turns
Speaker 1: a lot of times. Yeah um, but we were shooting
Speaker 1: shooting fish out of the canoes, taking turns, paddling for
Speaker 1: each other. And then that kind of switched to the boat, um,
Speaker 1: and going to islands and for shine and catching horseshoe
Speaker 1: crabs and you know, their seats of opportunities I didn't have.
Speaker 1: I ended up getting a crab trap, but I used
Speaker 1: to just time meat to a string and put it
Speaker 1: in and catch crabs with the net pulling that in.
Speaker 1: And you know, were you catching crabs to eat or
Speaker 1: were you just catch them to catch them? Yep, No,
Speaker 1: I would catch them blue crabs to eat. I would
Speaker 1: only take one claw off and then let them go.
Speaker 1: So uh yeah, because I wanted to catch them again.
Speaker 1: Oh so you would take one cloth to eat that
Speaker 1: and then you'd let the rest of them go. Let
Speaker 1: the rest of them go, because I was kind of
Speaker 1: keeping them catching them behind my house, so I wanted
Speaker 1: to keep a population. I felt like that's what it
Speaker 1: was a good thing to do. So yeah, you'd catch
Speaker 1: the same ones again a and then heaps of fishing.
Speaker 1: I liked both fishing a lot. But I would also
Speaker 1: bike down to the beach and go tarpen, try to
Speaker 1: get tarpen or snook in the morning before school. And yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: so I was what we were chatting about. And I'm
Speaker 1: curious your take on this that it's I love that
Speaker 1: Tim gave you that responsibility and trusted you, because I
Speaker 1: feel like if you were going to create a young
Speaker 1: woman who loves the outdoors, who is going to just
Speaker 1: all of a sudden to end up in freaking New
Speaker 1: Zealand guiding hunters. That might be the blueprint for it. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: I mean I think it really helped my confidence that
Speaker 1: I could just go out and do things by myself
Speaker 1: because I was always allowed to and encouraged to. So um,
Speaker 1: that really gave me the mindset where, oh, it's not
Speaker 1: scary to get to a new place. And I'd never
Speaker 1: hunted out of the state of Florida before I started guiding,
Speaker 1: so and then I've been in New Zealand and guided
Speaker 1: in Wyoming. Had never hunted ELP before, but it was
Speaker 1: guiding there, so um, and had a bit of an
Speaker 1: experience in Canada and I got my bees assorted. So
Speaker 1: as soon as the borders open here, I can go
Speaker 1: to BC and God, so that'll be good. That's incredible. Um.
Speaker 1: I want to I want to ask you about the
Speaker 1: New Zealand stuff, but I want to back up one second. UM.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you ever pay attention to any
Speaker 1: of these hunting forums or anything like that, but I
Speaker 1: check into them sometimes and there's one called rock Slide
Speaker 1: that's like a it's like a Western primarily a Western
Speaker 1: hunting forum, and there was a thread recently on there
Speaker 1: about somebody was bitching about like YouTube hunters or YouTube
Speaker 1: stars or something, um giving away too many secrets and
Speaker 1: explaining the like the draw process or the over the
Speaker 1: counter units or how to make a drop camp happen
Speaker 1: or whatever. Get like, like, please stop giving people easy information.
Speaker 1: And you know, some people, you know, predictable predictably kind
Speaker 1: of sided with them, and some people were like, you know,
Speaker 1: not everybody grew up with a dad that taught him
Speaker 1: how to do that, Like it's it's it's not a
Speaker 1: bad thing that people have the right. They have good
Speaker 1: information out there, and it just, you know, I kind
Speaker 1: of feel like that, Like I feel very lucky how
Speaker 1: I grew up, and you know I was my dad
Speaker 1: took me hunting constantly and fishing constantly. Like I had
Speaker 1: a very very good start to become what I am today.
Speaker 1: And then I hear your story and I know your dad,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, man, it's such an advantage to have
Speaker 1: that growing up. It really really is, and it really
Speaker 1: makes me upset. We get a lot of it in
Speaker 1: New Zealand. UM very secretive and plicky in a way,
Speaker 1: not welcoming to new hunters or people from different areas
Speaker 1: hunting different areas, and I just think that that really
Speaker 1: sucks because we're such a minority as it is, there's
Speaker 1: no reason to um be more divided. And yeah, maybe
Speaker 1: it's a shame when you want to go someplace and
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of other people there and you've walked
Speaker 1: seven hours. In New Zealand, I'm thinking you've walked seven
Speaker 1: hours to get in and then someone's there. But when
Speaker 1: it comes down to things, isn't it awesome that we
Speaker 1: have the privilege to go hunting in it? Um, it's
Speaker 1: great if more people could get into it, even though
Speaker 1: it makes the woods a bit more crowded, because it's
Speaker 1: going to ensure that. You know, I don't have kids,
Speaker 1: and I'm not about to have kids, but one day
Speaker 1: I'd like to have kids, and I want them to
Speaker 1: have the opportunity. So if if we become such a
Speaker 1: secretive minority, it's going to get taken away and or
Speaker 1: at least made more difficult. So without question, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's just the reality of what's going on right like
Speaker 1: we have we have. If you look at the population
Speaker 1: of humans, it's it's growing exponentially and there's more people
Speaker 1: out there and they're taking up more space. And you know,
Speaker 1: if you look at the average size of a like
Speaker 1: the square footage of a house here in the US
Speaker 1: now versus fifty years ago, it's like a thousand square
Speaker 1: feed bigger or something like. I mean, we're taking up
Speaker 1: more space, and so the people left who want to
Speaker 1: go hunt have only so many options. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: you're gonna bump into more people and that's sucks, but
Speaker 1: we've got to keep people out there. Like I firmly
Speaker 1: believe that we have to keep people out there, and like,
Speaker 1: you can't get mad if you know, like I look
Speaker 1: at how much information we have available for everything. You know,
Speaker 1: like I can't. I can't do anything manly but hunting fish.
Speaker 1: Like I'm if you asked me to work on a
Speaker 1: car or something, I'd be like, I can't even I
Speaker 1: don't know what that is. Like like I think I've
Speaker 1: got a truck this two years old. I think I've
Speaker 1: looked at the engine like twice, you know, like that's
Speaker 1: not my jam, but there's so you know, I can
Speaker 1: go on YouTube and find answers to questions like you know,
Speaker 1: elect electrical work or stuff like that I can do myself.
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is kind of awesome like that that
Speaker 1: we have the opportunity to get information this way, and
Speaker 1: the same goes for hunting, Like, yeah, I know it
Speaker 1: sucks that everybody's everybody's going to Colorado to hunt elk
Speaker 1: or everybody wants to get that Iowa white tail tag
Speaker 1: now and they can figure out very easily how to
Speaker 1: go through the process of getting into the game and
Speaker 1: playing the game. But at the same time, like man
Speaker 1: if it keeps people around and gets that fire burning
Speaker 1: and they want to be passionate and users who love
Speaker 1: this stuff like I want to open the door. Well,
Speaker 1: and the other cool thing is it's really an opportunity
Speaker 1: to help educate people to become more considerate hunters, and
Speaker 1: uh it's those platforms to share information and share good information.
Speaker 1: Is also a platform to share, um, how we'd like
Speaker 1: to see the future of hunting going and get build
Speaker 1: people's mindsets to uh think more about conservation and management
Speaker 1: of the areas and also consideration for other hunters. So yeah,
Speaker 1: well that's you know, that's one of the big arguments,
Speaker 1: right is you know you can you can give people
Speaker 1: all the information to go on their first ALCN or
Speaker 1: the first traveling white tail hunt. But you're not gonna
Speaker 1: give them any you know, any of the ethics do
Speaker 1: you think they should have or they're not going to
Speaker 1: just know some of these unwritten rules that you and
Speaker 1: I follow because we've were raised in this. And I
Speaker 1: look at that and I go, Yeah, a lot of
Speaker 1: people are out there and they do things that other
Speaker 1: people think are stupid. Like that's that's where are like
Speaker 1: the touch points between us and other hunters, like in
Speaker 1: person or on platforms like this. I think that's where
Speaker 1: this stuff matters, you know, because there are people that
Speaker 1: just there's some people who are assholes, right, they're gonna
Speaker 1: just do what they want. But a lot of people
Speaker 1: just don't know, Like they don't know that you don't
Speaker 1: park right in front of the trail ahead and walk
Speaker 1: out like there, you know. I mean, if you want to,
Speaker 1: if you want to see people do stupid stuff that
Speaker 1: just aren't thinking about other people, go to any random
Speaker 1: public boat access on July fourth weekend, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. Like you will see infuriating behavior. And some
Speaker 1: of it is these people are clueless, and some of
Speaker 1: it is they just don't know any better, Like maybe
Speaker 1: they got their first boat and they've never done this before,
Speaker 1: and so it's like kind of up to us to
Speaker 1: just be like, we gotta little police our own a
Speaker 1: little bit and just kind of usher them in the
Speaker 1: right direction or what we hope is the right direction. Yea.
Speaker 1: And maybe maybe I'm a little bit naive, but I
Speaker 1: think most people just don't know. Like if they knew,
Speaker 1: they would want to be a bit more considerate about things.
Speaker 1: So at least that's what I choose to believe. So
Speaker 1: I think you're right, and I really think, you know,
Speaker 1: it's so easy. It's so easy to go into hunting,
Speaker 1: you know, whether whether it's white tail or whatever, and
Speaker 1: expect something bad to happen, you know, Like this is
Speaker 1: what happens in public land a lot as people go
Speaker 1: out and they're just thinking, well, you know, somebody's going
Speaker 1: to ruin my hunt, or it's not gonna be any
Speaker 1: good because there's been a bunch of idiots out here,
Speaker 1: and so they don't hunt the way they should, and
Speaker 1: it's sort of a self fulfilling prophecy. Or if you know,
Speaker 1: you pull up there and there are two or three
Speaker 1: other trucks in the parking area, it's you get into
Speaker 1: a bad headspace and you're not gonna hunt the way
Speaker 1: you need to. It doesn't do you any good, like
Speaker 1: you know, and it those just this is so random.
Speaker 1: But I've I've had a dog training buddy who I
Speaker 1: had on my other podcast, and he was awesome, but
Speaker 1: he was a hothead. He has a he has a
Speaker 1: cabin and a lake up by where we're at. And
Speaker 1: he passed away last year right before duck season. And
Speaker 1: when I got the text, I texted, you know, the
Speaker 1: person back and I was like, was it a Was
Speaker 1: it a heart attack? And she said yeah, And I
Speaker 1: was like yeah, because he was running so hot and
Speaker 1: so angry over so much little stuff that you know,
Speaker 1: and I'm not a doctor, right, there's probably a million
Speaker 1: reasons why you had a heart attack. But when you
Speaker 1: see that, it's like, it really wasn't worth it to
Speaker 1: live that way. And he wasn't that old. And so
Speaker 1: I see some of these people get so worked up
Speaker 1: over this, and like, like you said, hunting is a
Speaker 1: freaking gift, Like it's we could lose this ship at
Speaker 1: any moment, and you know, the opportunity to live a
Speaker 1: life like your living, and the opportunity to live a
Speaker 1: life like I'm living or just have it be your escape.
Speaker 1: That's there's only so many generations left and that's going
Speaker 1: to be gone, Like we should really learn to appreciate
Speaker 1: it exactly. No, I can't. Couldn't agree more with that.
Speaker 1: And I see probably because I grew up more on
Speaker 1: the private land side of things. I do, like most
Speaker 1: of my hunting heres on public land. But I see
Speaker 1: it a lot with fishing. So growing up in Florida
Speaker 1: on fishing spots, you get people there up set coming
Speaker 1: in and it's just really not worth it. Well, I know,
Speaker 1: and it's it's weird, right because it's not like there
Speaker 1: aren't lots of places to fish and you know, but
Speaker 1: down there and people get very territorial and I get it,
Speaker 1: but it's just it's the same thing again, like you know,
Speaker 1: we we we were talking about before this podcast that
Speaker 1: everybody has a freaking boat now and everybody has the
Speaker 1: ability to go out and buy like a decent garment
Speaker 1: unit or something they can find. I mean, you can
Speaker 1: get a five dollar app on your phone and find
Speaker 1: every every structure underneath the water on any lake you want.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's the information is out there, so you
Speaker 1: gotta go. Okay, Well, am I gonna mind to do
Speaker 1: something different? Am I to get up earlier? Am I
Speaker 1: gonna fish a little different strategy, a little tap like
Speaker 1: change my tactics. What are you gonna do to just
Speaker 1: make up for the fact that everybody has the same information.
Speaker 1: There's more people out there? Yeah, yeah, instead of just
Speaker 1: getting just redlining and it's screaming, shaking your fist at
Speaker 1: the sky. Uh, what's what's what's it like down in
Speaker 1: New Zealand right now? Or is what's what's the coronavirus
Speaker 1: situation down there? Oh, we don't have COVID here, but
Speaker 1: we also don't have very many vaccines, so just some
Speaker 1: of the older folks are able to get vaccines now
Speaker 1: I mean sorry, I mean like, what what's the tourist situation?
Speaker 1: Can you get in or not? No? So the borders
Speaker 1: were open with Australia, but I think they're closed now,
Speaker 1: at least from Sydney they're closed. And yeah, um, so
Speaker 1: we're just we just have Kiwi clients, which is really good.
Speaker 1: I think. Uh, myself and my boss are the only
Speaker 1: two hunting guides that I know of that are still
Speaker 1: able to be full time, so that's pretty good. So
Speaker 1: you just have you have local local hunters hunting what
Speaker 1: tar and red stag or what are they hunting? We're
Speaker 1: mainly doing tar, just because that seems to be a
Speaker 1: bit more of the market. We have a really cool
Speaker 1: opportunity that we lease a private station with lots of
Speaker 1: public land tops and it's up in really cool country,
Speaker 1: but having the farm access up the river bed makes
Speaker 1: it more accessible. Um. So it actually comes out to
Speaker 1: be about the same price as flying if you want
Speaker 1: to do it with a group flying in and flying
Speaker 1: food and beverages in for for the time to go
Speaker 1: hunt other public land tops. In this way, you don't
Speaker 1: have to pay the geography in and we have a
Speaker 1: really awesome hut you know, no electricity, um, but really
Speaker 1: really comfortable because it's insulated with a fire. So that
Speaker 1: just makes all the difference for winter hunting because it's
Speaker 1: it's winter now, so the ruts just about the batar
Speaker 1: is just about over, but they're still kind of high
Speaker 1: up this time of year, so it's pretty fun. Before
Speaker 1: before everything got shut down, what was your client base like,
Speaker 1: where where were they coming from? Mainly Americans and then
Speaker 1: Germans would be the second biggest Europeans, but mainly Germans
Speaker 1: all right. Were they mostly rifle hunters? Yes, yeah. So
Speaker 1: my boss that I worked for for the chart doesn't
Speaker 1: take those hunters. He doesn't like no no, And I
Speaker 1: don't blame him, Um, I don't blame him at all,
Speaker 1: especially for how he works, because um, I did have
Speaker 1: a client last week that killed a tar with with
Speaker 1: one shot with the three but that was this whole year,
Speaker 1: three shots has been the fewest shots to finish guitar
Speaker 1: um just because they're so tough. They've got this big
Speaker 1: main do and I think that that really takes away
Speaker 1: a lot of the speed before it even gets to
Speaker 1: their their thick shield. It's almost like a pig um
Speaker 1: their skin. And they're just such hardy animals, so um
Speaker 1: and really really big open country. So I took my
Speaker 1: bow up I had in between hunts. I went further
Speaker 1: up the valley to some of the public land and
Speaker 1: I was going to tried to shoot guitar and I
Speaker 1: chickened out because of my clients the week before having
Speaker 1: so much trouble with a gun and I was finishing
Speaker 1: everything with the knife, and I just just like, I'm
Speaker 1: not not comfortable to playing an arrow at this animal
Speaker 1: um right now. So I'm gonna, well, but not not
Speaker 1: even taking the bow out. Yeah, they do. They do
Speaker 1: a lot with compound bows and and I think it's
Speaker 1: definitely doable with a trad bow, and um, I think
Speaker 1: my dad will give it a try. But I just
Speaker 1: I guess I had a bad enough week guiding with
Speaker 1: having trouble killing animals, but wasn't in the right frame
Speaker 1: of mind to take my bow out for him. So well,
Speaker 1: that's it's so interesting to hear you say that, because
Speaker 1: there's whether we whether we want to or not, we
Speaker 1: internalize things. And so when you're when you're exposed to
Speaker 1: that and you're guiding rifle hunters and you see them
Speaker 1: that a certain animals soak up a lot of firepower,
Speaker 1: a lot of lead, it's in your heart you're like,
Speaker 1: I think I can get one of these with the bow,
Speaker 1: but you know, like what they're capable of, and so
Speaker 1: you kind of internalize that and go, I don't know
Speaker 1: if this is you know, like you call yourself off
Speaker 1: of that. That's interesting. Yeah, And the other thing is
Speaker 1: this time of year, over the winter. Um, I mentioned
Speaker 1: that they're a bit higher, so a lot of times
Speaker 1: the old bulls will live down in lower scrub and
Speaker 1: it's really doable for our tree hunters, but this time
Speaker 1: of year when they're running, they go up to much
Speaker 1: steeper country where big family mobs of nanny slipt um,
Speaker 1: and they're a bit more in the open, but still
Speaker 1: it's steep enough you can. You know, bow hunting still doable.
Speaker 1: It's more challenging. But the worst part is re covery
Speaker 1: such a real factor where you shoot an animal for
Speaker 1: recovering it. And if you shoot them with a bow
Speaker 1: and they go, you know, a hundred yards or two
Speaker 1: hundred yards, well, are you gonna be able to get
Speaker 1: to them? You have no idea where they're going to go.
Speaker 1: So drop you're talking super high elevation, steep stuff, right,
Speaker 1: really steep, really really steep, and you know ice this
Speaker 1: time of year in snow, and yeah, there's just a
Speaker 1: lot of places that you can't get to. So I
Speaker 1: had a tar the other week that we shot and
Speaker 1: it slid down and it hooked by its horns um
Speaker 1: and we had to tie it up two shoulder cape
Speaker 1: it and skin it, and then we untied it and
Speaker 1: gave it one push and it just free fell. We
Speaker 1: couldn't see it, and then we heard it hit something
Speaker 1: and then free fall a bunch more and hit something.
Speaker 1: So like that's the sort of country that we're in. Um,
Speaker 1: And yeah, it makes you think before you bring a
Speaker 1: bow out, that's for sure. And it's definitely doable other
Speaker 1: times the year Um, after the rut by September especially,
Speaker 1: old bulls are back down really low and thick, bushy
Speaker 1: scrub and you just never really see them. But if
Speaker 1: you you found a good area spent a lot of
Speaker 1: time there, you probably get an opportunity. So does it
Speaker 1: do you run into any any issues? And maybe issues
Speaker 1: is the wrong word here, but you hunt with a
Speaker 1: very interesting set up and you're guiding rifle hunters. Are
Speaker 1: you ever just like, hey, come on, guys, why don't
Speaker 1: you hunt with a real weapon or you just keep
Speaker 1: your mouth shut and take your tips and just let
Speaker 1: it go. Yeah, yeah, I definitely definitely keep my mouth shutting,
Speaker 1: definitely take my tips. That sounds bad, But in your head,
Speaker 1: are you like, come on, guys cuiping in such pansies
Speaker 1: and hunt with a real weapon. No, Because it's such
Speaker 1: a challenge in its own way, and everybody has their
Speaker 1: different Um, what's a challenge for them and what they
Speaker 1: enjoy doing. I um have been doing because I've been
Speaker 1: guiding so many of these and it's a real social hunt.
Speaker 1: These tops hunts I call like adventure hunting versus I
Speaker 1: think the bush stocking and the still hunting with the
Speaker 1: bow is a lot Well, obviously it's not something you
Speaker 1: can do with two people, really, I don't think, And
Speaker 1: it's yeah, you're very in the moment versus on these
Speaker 1: big walks you're spending a lot of time just covering
Speaker 1: ground where you're not really worried about your movement and
Speaker 1: things and you can talk and um, it's more the
Speaker 1: challenges of the train in the country. So if that's
Speaker 1: what people are after, it's an awesome challenge in itself.
Speaker 1: It's just a different sort of hunting. It's kind of like,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if I said this on
Speaker 1: the other podcast, because I tell quite a few people
Speaker 1: this hunting is like saying that you play a sport
Speaker 1: with a ball, you know, are you playing pool or
Speaker 1: are you playing football? Like, yeah, it's it's pretty different,
Speaker 1: so different ways to go about it. Let's let's talk
Speaker 1: about your bow choice. Okay, well I have it here.
Speaker 1: It's not strong, so it's um made with more like
Speaker 1: it has fiberglass and modern day materials. But it's a
Speaker 1: Turkish hornbow style, So which is West Asian recurve. It's
Speaker 1: a West Asian recurve, a mounted Dartrey bow. So this
Speaker 1: is new since the last one. This one's I think
Speaker 1: sixty two pounds um, so it's a bit. I had
Speaker 1: another one made that was another ten pounds stronger, just
Speaker 1: for New Zealand game. And what you say, it's it's
Speaker 1: a West West Asian or Western Asian. What did you say?
Speaker 1: It was? Yep, a West Asian recurve kind of is
Speaker 1: the model of it, good girl. And it's a mounted
Speaker 1: bow and you keep saying that now our listeners don't
Speaker 1: know what that means. Yes, okay, So I used to
Speaker 1: do a sport called mounted archery. So it's where you're
Speaker 1: running on a horse shooting targets um pretty close ten
Speaker 1: fifteen yards away, and you hold a bunch of arrows
Speaker 1: in your hand and you shoot quickly because you're moving
Speaker 1: by a target. And I just love that that point
Speaker 1: and shoot style, and it feels so natural and it's
Speaker 1: something that you don't have to think about. You don't
Speaker 1: have to think about the animals movement as much getting
Speaker 1: a still shot with them, you don't have to think
Speaker 1: about your movement. I think I mentioned on another podcast
Speaker 1: with you, Um I shot a turkey that was I
Speaker 1: was moving and it was moving, so um that was cool.
Speaker 1: It's just your mind takes in all that and you
Speaker 1: don't have to think about it when you shoot. This
Speaker 1: is like like shotgunning for birds, right, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of that. You just do it enough. It's true instinctive shooting.
Speaker 1: And so this this mounted recurve that you're talking about,
Speaker 1: what what does it measure? Tip to tip? First, I
Speaker 1: know you're showing it to me, but the people can't,
Speaker 1: you know. I'm just trying to trying to think. Would
Speaker 1: that be like three three? It's pretty short, yeah, so
Speaker 1: not it wouldn't be as long as it would be
Speaker 1: about from my tip of my fingers to about my drawing,
Speaker 1: I'd say really short. Similar and and designed. You know,
Speaker 1: the history of those bows is shooting them from horseback.
Speaker 1: And you know you said that you did this as
Speaker 1: a you know, as a sport, but it's really really
Speaker 1: a unique choice. There's probably what you and about seven
Speaker 1: other people who hunt with these. Yeah, and it's it's
Speaker 1: really got its challenges. I think the biggest one that
Speaker 1: I'm finding is my distance. I'm just not comfortable taking
Speaker 1: longer shots, and I think a lot of that is
Speaker 1: also my um desire to really make an ethical shot.
Speaker 1: And coupled with that, I'm shooting a really heavy broad
Speaker 1: head with a stiff arrow, much stiffer than you would
Speaker 1: for my poundage of a bow. Because of that heavy
Speaker 1: broad head head, are you shooting it's two grain because
Speaker 1: it's a hundred with a still insert so um and
Speaker 1: so you have no problems with front of center. You
Speaker 1: get you got a plenty of weight up there. Yep, yep,
Speaker 1: exactly so, but it's just loses speed really quickly. So
Speaker 1: and just because it's such a short bow and I'm
Speaker 1: not shooting with a mechanical release. I use a thumb
Speaker 1: instead of three fingers because it's only one point of contact,
Speaker 1: but it's still uh little differences and it's a really
Speaker 1: light bow. So that stability problem to like my problem
Speaker 1: shooting because I record myself when I'm shooting and I
Speaker 1: look at it, it's all from my left hand holding
Speaker 1: the bow too tightly. Pretty much all my problems um
Speaker 1: when I'm practicing at home come from that. And so
Speaker 1: what I'm saying is that little differences have a lot
Speaker 1: bigger impact because it's light and because it's short. So
Speaker 1: you have issues because you you don't hold this. You know,
Speaker 1: when we when we talk about compound shooting, we talk
Speaker 1: about you know, grip what you're talking about and introducing
Speaker 1: some torque in there, you know, by by gripping it
Speaker 1: too tightly. But also you know, we've got bubble levels
Speaker 1: and we've got multiple you know, anchor point We've got
Speaker 1: we've got different points of reference to show us we're
Speaker 1: holding this thing the same exact way every time. But
Speaker 1: you're not doing that with these bows, right Like, there's no,
Speaker 1: it's not consistent that way, right No. And I'm probably
Speaker 1: getting a bit more consistent because i haven't been practicing
Speaker 1: from a horse. I've been practicing a lot of stationary
Speaker 1: stuff for hunting, and I've been practicing, um, actually holding
Speaker 1: my draw, just getting prepared for different shot that I
Speaker 1: might need to take a bit more. But it's still
Speaker 1: it's still not stationary against myself. It's still a floating rest.
Speaker 1: So but I am trying to be more consistent with
Speaker 1: that floating rest and Um, the biggest thing that I
Speaker 1: do that helps me is to do that little bit
Speaker 1: of a what we talked about with the male arrow,
Speaker 1: the positive pull through and push through, and that little
Speaker 1: bit of movement for me at the shot helps to
Speaker 1: keep my release more consistent and crisper. So those are
Speaker 1: some of the things I've been working with. So you
Speaker 1: you said, you know, compounds way too easy. Rifle is
Speaker 1: obviously way too easy. Traditional normal, traditional archie way too easy.
Speaker 1: You're going to shoot a bowl that is designed to
Speaker 1: be shot off horseback, but you're gonna shoot it in
Speaker 1: all of your different sneaking around, hunting down in New
Speaker 1: Zealand everywhere else. What's what's your range with that sucker? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Right now, I'm me myself to ten yards, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's so I might be pushed out to fifteen
Speaker 1: yards and I have shot things at fifteen yards and
Speaker 1: even over twenty yards with the old bow. But um,
Speaker 1: it's just what I've decided to tell myself now, Um,
Speaker 1: is I'd like to try to get ten yards from
Speaker 1: the animal and your what did you call it? Bush creeping?
Speaker 1: What was the word you said? I'm still hunting pretty much,
Speaker 1: so you're bush stocking a variety. You know. That's the
Speaker 1: cool thing about New Zealand is a variety animals to
Speaker 1: hunt down there, and you're trying to get within ten
Speaker 1: yards of them to shoot them with this bow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's just they're big animals and it's a little bow,
Speaker 1: and I want to make sure I take the best
Speaker 1: shot that I can. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's really cool. I mean and want to ask you.
Speaker 1: I know this, this has come up a lot in
Speaker 1: other places, and I know Rogan's pushing this book, but
Speaker 1: I just finished this, this book, Empire of the Summer Moon,
Speaker 1: about the Comanches, and you know there their whole thing,
Speaker 1: you know, when they really took off was they figured
Speaker 1: out how to shoot from a horseback, and they figured
Speaker 1: out how to shoot rapid fire, and it shoots from
Speaker 1: a position where they were shooting under the horse's neck
Speaker 1: at full speed with a with a fistful of arrows,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of like Semiato style. And I don't
Speaker 1: know this, I should have looked this up beforehand, but
Speaker 1: I have to assume their bows were probably they probably
Speaker 1: were built similarly to what you're shooting. Do you do
Speaker 1: you know, I do not know, I believe that they're
Speaker 1: a bit longer. Um, just I think that in North
Speaker 1: America we shot longer bows versus this Asian style is
Speaker 1: a bit a bit shorter, and that would help with
Speaker 1: distance and um stability and everything as well for them.
Speaker 1: So I'd have to look up what they were shooting
Speaker 1: to know for sure. I even know the Japanese mounted
Speaker 1: archer shoot really really long both. So, um, there's there's
Speaker 1: quite a few different designs that were made to be
Speaker 1: shot off horses. But why did this, Why did your
Speaker 1: just the design of the bows you shoot, why did
Speaker 1: they get so short? Then? Um, I'm not sure why.
Speaker 1: To be honest, I think that just they're a lot
Speaker 1: easier to handle on a horse. So the Mongolians and um,
Speaker 1: everything did everything from horseback, so they probably wanted something
Speaker 1: that was just easy on the horse. Huh. It's it's
Speaker 1: interesting anybody who's listening to this, who's like, I have
Speaker 1: no idea what the hell they're talking about. You're just
Speaker 1: gonna look them up, Just just just go to YouTube
Speaker 1: look them up, because it's it's it doesn't look like
Speaker 1: the kind of thing that you could possibly shoot well,
Speaker 1: and yet people do. Yeah, yeah, people shoot them amazingly well,
Speaker 1: and when I was shooting a lot practicing. My dad
Speaker 1: and I play archery golf when I'm home. So what
Speaker 1: we do is we tie a bottle cap hanging from
Speaker 1: like a bush, so it's like a bottle cap by
Speaker 1: a piece of floss in the wind. It's kind of
Speaker 1: a hard target to shoot, and you know, you can
Speaker 1: get consistently where you're hitting something like that with these bows, um,
Speaker 1: which is pretty cool. How often do you target practice?
Speaker 1: I mean, how often do you shoot when when I
Speaker 1: am really seriously hunting with it, I probably am shooting
Speaker 1: and try to shoot like three times a day. Like
Speaker 1: when I was in school, I shooted in the morning
Speaker 1: before classes, you know, after class again before bed, at
Speaker 1: least three like sessions of shooting. And right now it's
Speaker 1: I'm pretty bad about it because I've been well, I
Speaker 1: just got back yesterday from a hunt, so I've been
Speaker 1: in the bush, um, working and guiding. And it's not
Speaker 1: something like even if I did have a second where
Speaker 1: I wasn't doing a chore, doing a job or trying
Speaker 1: to headskin things or get things ready. Um, I kind
Speaker 1: of have to be social, Like I can't just go
Speaker 1: off by myself and practice shooting. So um, I haven't
Speaker 1: been practicing as much lately. Yeah, well, I mean you
Speaker 1: gotta work, Yeah, I gotta work. I mean, yeah, we're
Speaker 1: opposite seasons to y'all. So this is our busy season
Speaker 1: was from March until and it's still going given a
Speaker 1: bit of the law. But so, how how come you
Speaker 1: haven't hunted the white tails down there in New Zealand yet? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Good question and just laziness on my part. So the
Speaker 1: hunting the white tails isn't the really big draw to
Speaker 1: me because there's so many cool species here that I
Speaker 1: haven't shot or hunted and that I would love to
Speaker 1: hunt with a bow. Um, and probably it's much more
Speaker 1: accessible areas for where I live because there's only two
Speaker 1: populations of white tail in New Zealand and the one
Speaker 1: that I would really like to hunt on Stewart Island.
Speaker 1: Uh requires a boat to get there and you have
Speaker 1: to book the blocks about a year ahead of time.
Speaker 1: So it's a bit of planning and a lot of
Speaker 1: my work is pretty last minute right now with KIWI,
Speaker 1: so I have to keep a pretty open schedule. But
Speaker 1: I do I need to go down there and do it,
Speaker 1: because not not for shooting the white Tail, but the experience.
Speaker 1: Like I'm one of those people I'm kind of bad
Speaker 1: at just going in sight seeing. I'm not a hiker.
Speaker 1: I love hiking with a weapon or even a camera
Speaker 1: in my hand, but I like having the purpose. So
Speaker 1: white Tail would give me the purpose to get down
Speaker 1: into a really really spectacular part of New Zealand and
Speaker 1: a place that I'd like to see and spend time in. Um,
Speaker 1: whether or not I shoot anything. But so you haven't
Speaker 1: been down there where? Nope? No, how did How did
Speaker 1: the white Tails get there? So Theodore Roosevelt? Yeah, Um,
Speaker 1: Theodore Roosevelt actually gifted them to New Zealand, So that's
Speaker 1: pretty cool. In the early nineteen o four or five,
Speaker 1: and he gave twenty two that were trapped in snow
Speaker 1: in Missouri, I think, um put him on a boat
Speaker 1: and eighteen of them made it, which is pretty cool
Speaker 1: because that's before the Panama Canal, so they had to
Speaker 1: go along. Um. Yeah, they took a real ride and
Speaker 1: they came into the South part of New Zealand and
Speaker 1: nine of them, um so two bucks and the rest
Speaker 1: seven does two bucks on Stewart Island and two bucks
Speaker 1: and seven does on um Lake what what something anyway,
Speaker 1: where the other herd is up up towards actually where
Speaker 1: I live, um, but that herds a little bit less
Speaker 1: accessible because a lot of it's on private land and
Speaker 1: the public land is super super bluffy, and while there
Speaker 1: are white tails still there, it's um not as ideal
Speaker 1: as the private land around it for them to live.
Speaker 1: So there's more that are on those private blocks. So
Speaker 1: those all, all of the white tails down there in
Speaker 1: New Zealand are descendants from that the gift from Teddy. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I haven't hunted them, but I've heard from people
Speaker 1: that you can really see like similar traits on the
Speaker 1: left side. They don't have p fort I can't remember,
Speaker 1: but you can see some like huge similarities in the
Speaker 1: racks because they all came from those nine deer that
Speaker 1: were in that area, and the populations have taken off.
Speaker 1: They're huge, especially done in Stewart Island. The hunting pressure
Speaker 1: from recreational hunters doesn't really seem to be enough to
Speaker 1: keep the population in check because there's no native predators
Speaker 1: there anything. So they do quite a bit with professional
Speaker 1: callers and it's not the target of the Tenadie drops,
Speaker 1: but they do do aerial Tenadie, which is a poison
Speaker 1: drops for possums and predators Pastewart Islands and island. It's
Speaker 1: pretty pristine. They have an awesome Kiwi bird population so
Speaker 1: that you can even see kiwi's out in the day,
Speaker 1: which is a big thing for New Zealand. They're really
Speaker 1: threatened so to protect it, let's let's pretend like you're
Speaker 1: talking to some idiot from Minnesota who has no idea
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. So you have an island down
Speaker 1: there has a population of white tails on it, but
Speaker 1: also has invasive possums, right, and they're dropping poison on
Speaker 1: the possums and that's killing some of the deer. Yep,
Speaker 1: so the deer will eat the Tenadie as well. So
Speaker 1: it's some thing that they're not really worried about because
Speaker 1: they're they're paying people to call them to shoot them
Speaker 1: as well, um to keep the population in check because
Speaker 1: it's a pretty pristine environment. It's really uh. For as
Speaker 1: big as the island is, it's fairly untouched by humans
Speaker 1: and they've got some really awesome plant species and bird
Speaker 1: species that don't exist in any place else. So they do.
Speaker 1: Actually the white tail population in New Zealand is probably
Speaker 1: studied more than any of the other Dear, I don't
Speaker 1: want to say that for sure, but it's really well
Speaker 1: studied because they want to determine their effect on the
Speaker 1: native vegetation as as their browsing and things. So they
Speaker 1: have a number that they've determined as like acceptable to
Speaker 1: be there, and they use other means, um, commercial shooting,
Speaker 1: professional shooting to help keep that number where they want it.
Speaker 1: Just without predators. It's completely different, dear, Dear, pest here.
Speaker 1: So there's like, if you look up online, you can
Speaker 1: read a lot about how to effectively hunt, because it's
Speaker 1: all how to effectively manage pest species. But it will
Speaker 1: tell you tapes of information about what they're eating and
Speaker 1: where they are, what times of year and on that
Speaker 1: island down there there's public land there. Yeah, so it's
Speaker 1: all public land. Um, it's just you have to book
Speaker 1: your block and it's like booked out a year ahead
Speaker 1: of time. It's a pretty popular thing for kiwi's to
Speaker 1: go down and do a kiwi not the birds, the
Speaker 1: people than New Zealanders. So um, they love it. It's
Speaker 1: really like Sportsman's well in New Zealand. All New Zealand's
Speaker 1: kind of like a sportsman's paradise. But the diving is
Speaker 1: just exceptional, the fishing is just exceptional, and then you
Speaker 1: have the opportunity to hunt a species that you can't
Speaker 1: hunt other places in New Zealand. So it's a pretty
Speaker 1: big draw. And has anybody ever go in bow hunt him?
Speaker 1: Or is it mostly rifle? No? No, quite a quite
Speaker 1: a few. The compound bow um is becoming a much
Speaker 1: bigger thing here in New Zealand than it was, and
Speaker 1: it's it's ideal country for bow hunting anyway, because it's
Speaker 1: a lot of bush. Most of the deer shot within
Speaker 1: like a hundreds of the coast, so a lot of
Speaker 1: deer shot. Probably most of the deer would actually be
Speaker 1: shot on the beach because they come out and they
Speaker 1: eat the seaweed on the shore. The white tail do there.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, how big did they get down there?
Speaker 1: Do you know? Um? They're pretty small, I think similar
Speaker 1: size to Florida, So like maybe a hundred and twenty
Speaker 1: for a buck and eighty pounds for dough sort of yeah,
Speaker 1: pretty little, Yeah, pretty small, And same thing with the racks,
Speaker 1: like anything that scored over a hundred would just be
Speaker 1: a golly wamper a monster? Is that a New Zealand word. No.
Speaker 1: We had one client like three years ago where I
Speaker 1: work that he's from the States and he called things
Speaker 1: golly woffers, and my boss and I just keep on
Speaker 1: using it as a joke. So it's become one of
Speaker 1: those things that you use enough as a joke and
Speaker 1: now you actually say it. So I love that. So
Speaker 1: when are you going to get down there and hunt
Speaker 1: those deer on the island? And good question, Well, um,
Speaker 1: depends how long the border stay close, because I would
Speaker 1: like to. I would have liked to have gone to
Speaker 1: Canada for this season, but a bit of a tricky
Speaker 1: situation travel wise. I won't have very much work at
Speaker 1: all over the spring in the summer, so that might
Speaker 1: be a good opportunity, even though things will be cast then.
Speaker 1: But just to do some hunting for a dough with
Speaker 1: my bow myself, that would be pretty cool. And having
Speaker 1: no seasons here makes it so accessible. Um. I have
Speaker 1: enough friends that maybe somebody will have a block booked
Speaker 1: and I could go on a trip with someone. If not,
Speaker 1: I'll have to plan a bit in advance to get
Speaker 1: a block. So the hunting down there there's public land,
Speaker 1: but you've got to reserve your spot. And is it
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's big country. Is there are you
Speaker 1: doing like kind of a uh, you know, backcountry bavy
Speaker 1: type hunting camping out there? How how are you like logistically,
Speaker 1: how do you go about it? Okay, So there's a
Speaker 1: bunch of different ways, and I have hunted a bunch
Speaker 1: of different ways. So for the Stewart Island, for the
Speaker 1: white Tail, you book your block and they have huts.
Speaker 1: They have a hut there. Um, you can bring a
Speaker 1: tent as well because I'm not sure how many bunks
Speaker 1: are in the hut. And normally you would come in
Speaker 1: with your friends. It's like a fairly big party. And
Speaker 1: then you all go to different sections so you're not
Speaker 1: hunting over each other. Um, and you know the end reaches.
Speaker 1: But even on your phone you can get maps so
Speaker 1: you can know the boundaries of where you're hunting without
Speaker 1: intruding on other parties and things. So that's really important
Speaker 1: to make sure that you know where you can hunt
Speaker 1: and where where you're intruding on somebody else. Um. But
Speaker 1: like I said, the coastline is where a lot of
Speaker 1: it's happening there. But it's really comfortable because the weather
Speaker 1: gets pretty bad. You're off an island, off the south
Speaker 1: tip of the South Island, so you're getting it's not Arctic,
Speaker 1: but you're getting towards there, so it can be pretty
Speaker 1: bad weather sometimes. Um, and the white tail don't like
Speaker 1: the wind and the nasty weather at Allso, um, when
Speaker 1: do they run down there? Do you know? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: do know. So they'll start the end of April, but
Speaker 1: through May all the way to the end of May. June. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a different time of year anyway. Anyway, you can
Speaker 1: get the government down there to open up those borders.
Speaker 1: We can come down and yeah, crazy next year, they
Speaker 1: need to pass out the vaccines before. I think they're
Speaker 1: gonna let the borders open just but we'll see, we'll see.
Speaker 1: We're hoping. I mean, our industry might work really relies
Speaker 1: heavily on the borders opening, so it would be great
Speaker 1: if they could. But yeah, this is a this is
Speaker 1: a bad situation for a lot of outfitters. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, the big question here is is Canada gonna open?
Speaker 1: Canada gonna open, you know, and they rely so heavily
Speaker 1: on American sportsmen there, and you know, in some places
Speaker 1: from Europe too. And you know when you when you
Speaker 1: get your business shut down for two full seasons, it's
Speaker 1: like that's tough to weather. Yeah. Yeah. I was talking
Speaker 1: to who I was going to be working for in
Speaker 1: Canada about potentially coming over, and he had some Canadian clients,
Speaker 1: but um, yeah, it's almost not worth running the camp
Speaker 1: for what he can charge the Canadians versus the international
Speaker 1: is a lot better. It's it's a rough deal. Uh breathe.
Speaker 1: This has been so much fun. Um, where what's the
Speaker 1: outfitter you work for? In case people who are listening
Speaker 1: this can never actually get down there and go hunting,
Speaker 1: you ever let us in? So I work for two
Speaker 1: places where you can bow hunt. That's where I actually
Speaker 1: live and I'm right now where I rent a house,
Speaker 1: and that's Glendan Hunting and Fishing UM in New Zealand.
Speaker 1: And then where I've been doing the tars for Southern
Speaker 1: Mountain Adventures. And he doesn't like bow hunters, but if
Speaker 1: you want to go for an epic mountain experience, he's great.
Speaker 1: So beautiful country. Yeah awesome. Well, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for coming on. I really appreciate it. Sweet Thanks Tony.
Speaker 1: Great talk catching up. That's it for this week, folks.
Speaker 1: Make sure to tune in every week for more white
Speaker 1: tail goodness. I'm your guest host, Tony Peterson and this
Speaker 1: has been the Wire to Hunt podcast, which is brought
Speaker 1: to you by First Light. If you still have a
Speaker 1: white tail itch that needs some scratching, head on over
Speaker 1: to our wire to Hunt YouTube channel to check out
Speaker 1: our how to videos, or go to meat Eater's YouTube
Speaker 1: channel to watch our one Week in November series. And
Speaker 1: if that's not enough, go to the meat eater dot com.
Speaker 1: I'm slash wired and you can see a bunch of
Speaker 1: articles from Mark myself and a whole bunch of our
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