1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Rex Hereman. 2 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 2: The name will live forever in infamy, along names like 3 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 2: Ted Bundy, BTK, buying, torture, kill, Dennis Raider, Timothy McVeigh, 4 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 2: Charles Manson. 5 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I could go on. 6 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 2: Rex Hereman, the alleged Long Island serial killer awaiting trial. 7 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 2: We know what he did to his victims, horrific, horrific 8 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 2: murderers after horrific, horrific sex torture while his wife and 9 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 2: children were out of town in a basement dungeon, then 10 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 2: burying them so he could look at their graves every 11 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 2: day when he went to work on Long Island. 12 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: There at Gilgo Beach Star Wars, we find out about 13 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: a whole other side of Rex Hewerman. 14 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 2: And that is Tonight's Friday Night Special and it is 15 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 2: very very special. Oh Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. 16 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 2: I want to thank you for being with us. Rex Heureerman. 17 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 2: Cops say he is the Long Island serial killer. I 18 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 2: believe he can be connected and will be connected to 19 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 2: many many. 20 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,119 Speaker 1: Other dead bodies. 21 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 2: But for tonight, for our Friday Night Special, we learned 22 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 2: Rex Huerman was the quote I hope you're sitting down 23 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 2: the quote perfect coworker and the quote life of the 24 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 2: party at work get togethers, the life of the party. 25 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 2: We also learn Rex Hewerman, the serial killer, had a 26 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 2: quote sexy nickname. Okay, Rex Hereman had a quote sexy nickname. 27 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: Okay, nothing is sexy about this guy. 28 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 2: If you look at the faces of all the women 29 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 2: he allegedly murdered one, two, three, four, five, I mean 30 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 2: on and on and on, including a child, a child, five, six, seven, eight, 31 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 2: and counting all these women dead at the hands of 32 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 2: Rex Hureman. And somebody gave him a sexy nickname and 33 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 2: says he was the life of the party at work, 34 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 2: get togethers, drinking beer, cracking jokes with colleagues. According to 35 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 2: a witness, he seemed like any other coworker on a 36 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 2: night out after a busy day at his Manhattan architect's office. 37 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: Little did they know. 38 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,399 Speaker 2: Once he leaves the bar and heads back to Long Island, 39 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 2: he goes all jekyl and hide, prowling for his next 40 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 2: victim to murder, as his wife and children went out 41 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:17,079 Speaker 2: of town or. 42 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: Just simply slept. 43 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 2: Now. According to this witness, Catherine Shepherd, she worked with 44 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 2: Hureman in the same Manhattan office. There on Seventh Avenue 45 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 2: in New York City's Fashion District. She was working for 46 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 2: an architectural design firm and his company was providing city permits. 47 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 2: She and her co workers would gather at a place 48 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 2: called Pete's Tavern in Gramercy Park. She remembers human as 49 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,119 Speaker 2: the life of the party, which. 50 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: Got him the nickname. 51 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 2: Okay, I feel the vomit coming up right now got 52 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 2: him the nickname. Of course, we should have seen this coming. 53 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 3: Sexy rexy, sexy, rexy quote. 54 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 2: He was fun He was funny. He would tell funny 55 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 2: stories and jokes that made everyone laugh. Okay, that was 56 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 2: her experience with him. What do we know about what 57 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 2: Hureman did? Allegedly after hours in the midst of a 58 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 2: new body being found just minutes from Hureman's home. Now 59 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 2: four witnesses, seemingly impartial witnesses come forward identifying Rex Humorman. 60 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to this. 61 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 4: Human remains have been found in a wooded area not 62 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 4: more than a thirty minute drive from suspected gilg Beat 63 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 4: serial killers Rex Hureman's home. The body, identified as twenty 64 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 4: year old you Nelly rainmods Moreno, was discovered in Sunken 65 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 4: Meadows Date Park on Long Island by park goers. The 66 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 4: remains were along a trail at the eastern end of 67 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 4: the park, which runs along Long Islands north shore. At 68 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,919 Speaker 4: least six victims of the Long Island serial killer have 69 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 4: been found on Gilgo Beach, which is along Long Islands 70 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 4: south shore. Reno's death has been ruled a homicide. 71 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 2: Interesting this is a young male victim, Janelli Moreno, discovered 72 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: in Sunken Meadow State Park just minutes away from Rex 73 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 2: Huerman's home. But it's my understanding that this is a 74 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 2: more recent killing or is it? Will it somehow be 75 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 2: connected to Rex Hueerman. It's just minutes from his home. 76 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 2: We know he's implicated in the murders of many other 77 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 2: young women and possibly one Asian male found near those 78 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 2: female dead bodies, But in. 79 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: The midst of investigating. 80 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 2: A new dead body near Rex Human's home, four witnesses 81 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 2: have now emerged. Listened to the Gilbert family lawyer Attorney 82 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 2: John Ray. 83 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 5: This is a witness who has every reason to have 84 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 5: no bias, no interest in the case whatsoever. She is 85 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 5: not a sex worker and instead, back in the nineties. 86 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 5: In the nineteen nineties, she was what is known then 87 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 5: and now as a swinger, and they would go to 88 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 5: certain sex clubs in New York City where they would 89 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 5: switch partners with other people of like kind. One of 90 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 5: the most important places that they would go was called 91 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 5: La Trapeze on West twenty seventh Street in New York, 92 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 5: right near. 93 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 6: Rex Huerman's office. 94 00:06:54,000 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 2: Okay, this is significant because this club, La Trapeze is 95 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 2: very close to Rex Hureerman's architectural office in Manhattan. And 96 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 2: we know that a lot of the activity that is 97 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: linking Hureman back to the dead women the sex workers 98 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 2: occur at his office. Membery's wife children are living in 99 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 2: their home on Long Island. He catches very off of 100 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 2: the Long Island railroad right there at Penn Station near 101 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 2: his office to go home, back and forth. 102 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: And it's that hub, isn't it? Joining me an all 103 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:33,239 Speaker 1: star panel? 104 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 2: But first to Mary Murphy, investigative reporter pix Pigs eleven, 105 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 2: also host of Hunt Inside, the thirteen year search for 106 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 2: the Gilgo Beach Killer and needless to say, a recipient 107 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 2: of many Emmy Awards. Mary, a lot of the cell 108 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 2: phone pings, a lot of the positioning of the suspect 109 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 2: of Long Island serial killer Rex Hureman happened around his office. 110 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 2: Even the pizza that was discarded, the food and drink 111 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 2: that was later used to get DNA wasn't near his office. 112 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: He was arrested near his office. 113 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 2: Law Trapeze is near his office, so obviously, if you 114 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 2: look at his activity psychologically, he uses his office as 115 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 2: basically his batcave. 116 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 7: That's a good way of putting it. There was a 117 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 7: box of cell phone pings located right near his office, 118 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 7: right near Penn Station. And some of the victims who 119 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 7: were killed in a Gilgo Beach case their cell phones 120 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 7: pinged near Penn Station and very close to his office. 121 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 7: And we're told that one of the victims whose names 122 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 7: emerged after his arrest, Karen Bergatta, that she was a 123 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 7: street walker in midtown. 124 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 2: So regarding the newest the newest thing, this witness that 125 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 2: comes forward, who goes to a swingers club where you 126 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 2: know you swat partners La Trapeze on West twenty seven, 127 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 2: how close is that to Huerman's Manhattan architectural office. 128 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 7: I would say it's only about seven or eight blocks away. 129 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 2: Guys, that is maybe a ten minute walk. Maybe if 130 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 2: you're catching red lights a ten minute walk from his office. 131 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 2: His office is often the hub of his activity. Joining 132 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 2: me Also in addition to Mary Murphy, investigative reporter of 133 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 2: pix E eleven, Robin Drake joining us out of Virginia, 134 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 2: behavioral expert, former FBI Special Agent in Chief of the 135 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 2: FBI counter Intelligence Behavioral Analysis Program, and I love this book. 136 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 2: His book is Sizing People Up, a veteran FBI agent's 137 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 2: manual for behavior prediction. 138 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: Man. 139 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 2: We need you now, Drake, because you can put words 140 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 2: to what I'm trying to express. Let's go with Scott Peterson. 141 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 2: Scott Peterson kill Lacy his wife. We believe in their 142 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 2: home on Covena in Modesto, that was his layer. What 143 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 2: was his other layer, his office which had basically a 144 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 2: storage area where he kept his secret boat, where he 145 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 2: made cement. 146 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: Let me just say waits. We believe to weigh her 147 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: body down. 148 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 2: What was his other layer where he would go fishing, 149 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 2: his fishing hole where her body was discovered and then 150 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 2: later found not far away when it came up from 151 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 2: the bottom of the water. I'm trying to verbalize that 152 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 2: killers use the area with which they are familiar. You 153 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 2: want to get rid of a dead body. Think about it. 154 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 2: Everybody on the palle thing, where would you go to 155 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 2: get rid of a dead body? You know where I 156 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 2: would go? Seven bridges in South Bibb County. It swamp 157 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 2: and there's seven bridges that go over it to link 158 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 2: South bib County to the city of Macon. Why because 159 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 2: I know where it is. How can you get rid 160 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 2: of a dead body and a place you've never heard of? 161 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 2: Explain what I'm saying, Drake, because I believe his hub 162 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 2: of activity is going to be not just his home 163 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 2: in Long Island at Gilgo Beach where bodies were disposed of. 164 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: His office right by this nightclub. 165 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 8: YEA, one hundred percent Nancy. And it comes down to 166 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 8: what you said, feeling comfortable and creating what he's established 167 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 8: as a behavior arc of what where he feels safe 168 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 8: operating because he's got reps in those areas and when 169 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 8: we're dumping bodies in places, also when you're doing it, 170 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 8: you've got to feel safe in that area with a 171 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 8: law enforcement that area. 172 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 9: So I think a lot of these things are. 173 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 8: Actually putting a bigger point on law enforcement and what 174 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 8: they saw and didn't see in questions there. When it 175 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 8: comes to the investigation. So yeah, he's clearly displayed to 176 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 8: this behavior arc of feeling safe operating in a secretive 177 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 8: way from public view. 178 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 2: You are hearing high profile lawyer John Ray. He is 179 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 2: representing the family of Shannon and Gilbert. Now you remember 180 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 2: Shannon Gilbert whose body was found out on gilgo At first, 181 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 2: everybody said, well. 182 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, she's not really connected. This is just a coincidence. 183 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 2: Who could buy that her body is near all the 184 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 2: other women's bodies that are connected to hereman and she 185 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 2: just happened to be dead right there. Okay, Now entering 186 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 2: law trapeze, the bar for swingers, what does that have 187 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 2: to do with Huerman? 188 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 5: Listen, Sometimes several hundred people at a time would be 189 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 5: involved in this place. It's heyday was right at the 190 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 5: time that Karen Vurgatta is involved in this case. In 191 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 5: this situation, this particular woman was dating a police officer 192 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 5: for New York City who was a narcotics a detective, 193 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 5: and they would go to these switchy clubs, these swapping clubs. 194 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 5: At or about Valentine's Day of nineteen ninety six, the 195 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 5: couple went to Latropize and I think it was on 196 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 5: the wall at Latropez where an advertisement was placed to 197 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 5: go to a house in Massapequa Park for partying, for switching, 198 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 5: for swapping, And isn't a shay. 199 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 2: Mary Murphy that that is where Rix Huerman lived with 200 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 2: his wife. 201 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 7: Yes, Rex Chuerman lived, Barren actually was raised there. He 202 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 7: spent his whole life in Massapeople Park. 203 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 2: Okay, so this witness who was a swinger goes to 204 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:44,959 Speaker 2: Wa Trapeze. 205 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: So what wait for it? 206 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 5: Listen, she went with her boyfriend out to Long Island, 207 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 5: but before they went, her boyfriend picked up a woman 208 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 5: in New York in the city and she was a 209 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 5: sex worker. They went to Massapequa Park. They ended up 210 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 5: going to rex Hureman's house. In the house was the 211 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 5: wife of Rex Huremen and Rex Yuremen and the other girl. 212 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 5: The other girl who we believe to be Karen Vergata. 213 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 5: She this girl disappears downstairs at the house. Rex Yureman 214 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 5: disappears and according to our witness and other witnesses, when 215 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 5: men are swingers, very often. 216 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 6: They switch sexually. 217 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 5: They go back and forth between male and female, and. 218 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 6: So Yurman. 219 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 5: Leaves the main floor and disappears either into another bedroom 220 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 5: or downstairs. The witness talks to Rex's wife. 221 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 2: Okay, whoa we're hearing all The wife knew nothing about 222 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 2: what was going on. But according to this witness, who 223 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 2: is not a sex worker, wasn't getting paid by anybody, 224 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 2: wasn't answering to John says that Rex Hueman's wife was 225 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 2: part of this. 226 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: Guys, this is a bombshell in this case. Listen. 227 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 5: As they're leaving, the witness points out that she could 228 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 5: see in the window looking out the girl that had 229 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 5: come with them, and she says to her driver, her partner, 230 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 5: what are we doing? Are we're taking her? And the 231 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 5: partner says, don't worry, they're just playing a game. She stays, 232 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 5: there no problem with that. 233 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 6: The girl runs out of the house naked and is running. 234 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 5: In front of the garage, and now the witness says, hey, 235 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 5: we'd be taking her. Something's wrong here, and the driver 236 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 5: tells her no, they're just playing a game. 237 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 6: Leave it, and they leave. 238 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: They leave the girl there. 239 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 2: We're talking about Karen Virgatta, one of the dead women. 240 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: And this is how it ends. Listen. 241 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 5: She never hears about the incident again. She distinctly remembers Urman. 242 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 5: She also had intercourse with Urreman that same day on TV, 243 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 5: she sees the picture of Karen Vagatta and she recognizes 244 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 5: her and said, that's her, and she recognizes Rex Yuoman. 245 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, sexy rexy. I would laugh, 246 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: but I know. 247 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 2: The condition in which these bodies were found. There's nothing 248 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 2: sexy about this guy. The life of the party, my 249 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:07,479 Speaker 2: rear end. Sexy, rexy, fun funny, funny stories, jokes. 250 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:08,479 Speaker 1: Everybody laughed. 251 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 2: Now, according to the witness, at work, he was always 252 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 2: professional towards her and the other women that work there. 253 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 2: She goes on to say, while he was professional at work, 254 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 2: Hureman loved pretty girls in the office, using them professionally. 255 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 2: He was extremely skilled. He knew how to work the 256 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 2: system to get permits. He was renowned for that. He 257 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 2: knew all the. 258 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 1: People that provide permits. 259 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 2: He had relationships with all of them. But what do 260 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 2: we know about Humman after work hours? 261 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 1: John Ray, thank you for being with us. 262 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 9: Thank you. 263 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 1: Wow. This is a huge. 264 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 2: Bombshell in the Rex Human case, because before I was thinking, 265 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,439 Speaker 2: you know, John, You've tried a lot of cases, and 266 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 2: I love nothing more than DNA deoxaribo nucleic acid. 267 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: Which we have in this case. I don't have much of it, 268 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: but we. 269 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 2: Have it, and we have the wife's hair on some 270 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 2: connected to some of the dead bodies. We've got the defendant, 271 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:18,679 Speaker 2: Rex Huerman's hair connected to some of the bodies. But DNA, 272 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 2: as you well know, can be argued away that it 273 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 2: was a transfer, that it was an accident. 274 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: That blah blah blah blah. 275 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 2: But when you combine DNA with an eyewitness, it says 276 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 2: I had sex with humormen. I know what he looks like, 277 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 2: and I left caring for God, and God helped me 278 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 2: there that night, and she was never seen alive again. 279 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 2: A witness willing to come forward and say I was 280 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 2: a swinger and wants to admit that on the stand, 281 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 2: ready to say that on the stand. To me, you 282 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 2: know when you have to put the devil in jail. 283 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 2: Sometimes you got to go to hell to get your witness. 284 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 2: Who do you think human's hanging out with nuns and 285 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 2: priests and virgins? Now, that to me gives this witness, 286 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 2: your witness more credibility. 287 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 9: Genre Well, you should also know that it's odd why 288 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,439 Speaker 9: they brought Karen with them if it was going to 289 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 9: be swapping between couples, and that now is explained fully 290 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 9: and consistently through Missus Ellerp's lawyer, Robert Macedonio. He went 291 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 9: on television recently and said that there's no way that 292 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 9: John Ray's witness can be correct because because his client, 293 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 9: missus Ella Horyeman's wife was pregnant at the time, so 294 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 9: she would never have had sex. And that's perfectly First 295 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 9: of all, we know you can have sex if you're pregnant. 296 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 2: But okay, hold on, Johenrey, I got to write this down. 297 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 1: This is significant. Hold on. So you're saying it's a 298 00:19:58,200 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: couple swinging parties. 299 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,360 Speaker 2: How do you bring a sex worker with you when 300 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 2: the women are going to be swinging in the men? 301 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 2: I don't need a fifth will right, But you're saying 302 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 2: el was pregnant at the time and they needed that 303 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 2: extra female. 304 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: Am I getting this right? 305 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 9: You are? But more importantly it comes from the horse's mouth. 306 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 9: It's Macedonio, who's the lawyer for Missus Ellerup, who posits that, 307 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 9: who states that on national television, And so we also 308 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:31,679 Speaker 9: have that fact consistent with the witness coming forward and 309 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 9: saying that when she got there, Missus Elrop did not 310 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 9: want to have sex and had turned away the witness 311 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,199 Speaker 9: thought it was because the witness was African American, but 312 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 9: it turns out Macedonia gave us the correct explanation, which 313 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 9: is that she was pregnant and didn't want to have sex. 314 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 9: And by the way, that also explains why they picked 315 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 9: up Karen ber got her in the first place to 316 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 9: bring her along to be the partner. We couldn't figure 317 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 9: that out before we knew that about the pregnancy. So 318 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 9: it's also very likely that the detective Swapper who was 319 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 9: driving the car to go there, previously knew Hoyaman that 320 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 9: they already had a relationship. 321 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 2: You mean as Zen had swap partners before. Yes, okay, 322 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 2: hold on, John Ray, I'm not going to ask you 323 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 2: the name, but do you know who the cop is? 324 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 9: I do. 325 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 2: It's not out there yet, right correct, Well, he better 326 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 2: expect a big fat subpoena coming his way, and I 327 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 2: ain't gonna stay quiet for long. Guys with me is 328 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:43,479 Speaker 2: John Ray the lawyer for Shannon Gilbert's family, And now 329 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 2: you see why he has interviewed this woman who was 330 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,120 Speaker 2: not a sex worker, who has come forward and. 331 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: Admitted, yeah, I was a swinger. 332 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 2: I went to Lot Trapezese Club, a lot of swingers 333 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 2: go there when y'all went to a party in Massapequa, 334 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 2: and this is what happened. 335 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: I slept, I had sex with Hureman. 336 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 2: That's like eating a dirt sandwich to have to admit that, 337 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 2: But in my mind that adds to her credibility. Doctor 338 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 2: Joni Johnson is with us very well known forensic psychologist 339 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 2: and private investigator. Doctor Johnson performs risk threat assessments on 340 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 2: violent offenders and she's the author of Serial Killer. As 341 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 2: one hundred one questions true crime fans ask. You can 342 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 2: find doctor Johnson at doctor Joni Johnson dot com. Doctor Johnson, 343 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 2: let me give you a good example. Okay, just recently 344 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 2: we hear from that poc Or van der Sloot and 345 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 2: he gives his confession and I'm saying that with quotes. 346 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,400 Speaker 2: I'll believe one line on his confession, I kill Natalie. 347 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 2: The rest he fabricates to make himself look not as 348 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 2: bad as he really is. He's the devil. Straight from help, 349 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:12,679 Speaker 2: Doctor Joni. When you are assessing, as you do statements witnesses, defendants, victims, 350 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 2: to me, it enhances this witness's credibility that she puts 351 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 2: it out there. She's not holding back, She's not lying. 352 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 2: I was a swinger. I went to this club, I 353 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 2: went to this swinger's party in mass Speaker, I slept 354 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 2: with Rex. 355 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,959 Speaker 1: Hereman, and I left Kieren for God of there. What 356 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: do you make of it? 357 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:34,360 Speaker 9: Absolutely? 358 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 10: Absolutely, I mean, when you were doing any kind of 359 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 10: friends her legal investigation or assessment, you are evaluating the 360 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 10: credibility of the witness, and that includes looking at things 361 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,719 Speaker 10: like what do they have to gain, what do they 362 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 10: have to lose? Is the evidence consistent with what they're 363 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 10: telling me? Are they willing to say things that might 364 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 10: not put them in a favorable light? And all the 365 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,360 Speaker 10: things that you're talking about certainly indicate that this witness 366 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,400 Speaker 10: is willing to put herself in a light that other 367 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 10: people might question or criticized. And so those are things 368 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 10: that definitely add to her credibility. 369 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 2: Guys, the bodies are piling up, They're all pointing towards 370 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 2: Reck's Huremen and now four witnesses emerging. And I'll deal 371 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 2: with the new discovery of another dead body there at 372 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 2: Sunken Meadow State Park just minutes from Hureman's home in 373 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 2: just a moment. I'm gonna circle back to that. But 374 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,439 Speaker 2: these four witnesses. I can't tell you how important this 375 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 2: is to the Long Island serial killer case. 376 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: DNA. 377 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 2: While its validity is hard to attack, its placement can 378 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 2: sometimes be very easy attacked. Do I have to say, 379 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 2: O J. Simpson, Oh, Jackie, is her head just spun around? 380 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: I have to say, O J. Simpson? 381 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 2: And this is why his bloody sucks with the victim's 382 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 2: blood on them. We're in his home after his wife 383 00:24:55,600 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 2: and Ron Goleman were found murdered. But it was artfully 384 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 2: argued at trial that the DNA had been planted and placed. 385 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: Do I believe that? 386 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 7: No? 387 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: I don't believe that. Was it? 388 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 2: Successfully argued, Yes, it was the placement of the DNA. 389 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 2: Why was it there? And it Drey believed it. So 390 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 2: while you can't really argue with the validity of DNA, 391 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 2: you can't argue with was it contaminated? Was there a 392 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 2: mistake at the crime scene, at the crime scene or 393 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 2: the crime lab? Was it planned? Just so many ways 394 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:35,199 Speaker 2: you can attack its placement. These eyewitnesses make all the 395 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 2: difference in this case. We only know about a few 396 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 2: of the victims. How many more women have been murdered 397 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,640 Speaker 2: by Rex Human And now let's get to it without 398 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 2: any further pontificating on my part. Take a listen again 399 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 2: to our friend John Ray, witness number two. 400 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut to eighteen. 401 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 5: The second win who's come forward. This woman, she's not 402 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 5: involved in any sexual activities whatsoever. She has nothing to 403 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 5: gain by coming forward. She's not looking for a book 404 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 5: or money or the usual things that you're hearing about 405 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 5: out there, none of that. But she came forward because 406 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 5: she's very disturbed about what she knows. After she also 407 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 5: saw Rex Roomen on television and Shannon Gilbert, and here's 408 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:36,239 Speaker 5: her story. She is a banker by day and at 409 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 5: night she worked extra in Suffolk County as a taxi 410 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 5: driver to take care of her family with a one 411 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 5: parent family. And as a taxi driver, she is called 412 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 5: from her dispatcher to go to the Sayville Motor Lodge 413 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 5: on Sunrise Highway and there's a girl awaiting her who's 414 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 5: locked in a bathroom and will come out if she 415 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 5: flashes her lights and beeps the horn. And she goes 416 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,880 Speaker 5: there and does that several times. It doesn't work, but 417 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 5: then suddenly a giant man who fits the description of 418 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 5: Rex Huerman comes out and he's covering his face with 419 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 5: his arms so he can't be seen, and he runs 420 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 5: to a van or an. 421 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 6: Suv right nearby that's parked right there. 422 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: Okay, so bank day taxi driver. At night, she goes 423 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: to a pickup. 424 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 2: It's at the Sable Motor Lawn on Sunrise Highway, and 425 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:40,120 Speaker 2: this is what happens. 426 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 5: She continues to flash her lights and beep her horn 427 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 5: and out comes a girl crying, shaking, very upset, and 428 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 5: gets in her car. There they talk for a while 429 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 5: and then eventually they drive to the Ronkunama Railroad station 430 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 5: so that this girl can go back in to New 431 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 5: York City. This girl was a sex worker who was 432 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 5: servicing the big Man, and this girl turns out to 433 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 5: be Shannon Gilbert. Now Shannon is lured into doing this 434 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,439 Speaker 5: particular tryst, and she's given an envelope or shown an 435 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 5: envelope by the man that looked like it was stuff 436 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 5: full of money, and he tells her there's one thousand 437 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 5: dollars in there. It's for you and your family no 438 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 5: matter what happens tonight. She looks into the envelope when 439 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 5: he goes to the bathroom and it's stuffed with paper 440 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 5: and so she panics and realizes something's wrong, so she 441 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 5: goes in the bathroom and he had become very aggressive, 442 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 5: very angry. She goes in the bathroom, locks the door, 443 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 5: and calls to get a cab, and that's how she 444 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 5: comes out. 445 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 6: They speak for over an. 446 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 5: Hour, so the driver knows her well and notices that 447 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 5: she has a drooping eye, which is characteristic of Shannon 448 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 5: and also a characteristic of her family. By the way, 449 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 5: going back for a generation or two. 450 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 2: To John Ray, the chosen lawyer for Shannon Gilbert's family, 451 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 2: and we're talking about Shannon Gilbert. Remember all along, she 452 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 2: was the first body that was found, but authorities kept saying, yes, 453 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 2: she's not connected, she's not connected. Well, apparently she is connected, 454 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 2: because this cab driver distinctly remembers peeking Shannon from being 455 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 2: with Rex Hureman right down to the drooping eye. To 456 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 2: doctor Kendall Crown's joining me chief medical Examiner Terran County 457 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 2: Fort Worth. Never Ala like a business there, dtr Crown's. 458 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 3: Lecturer, University of Texas Austin and TCU Texas Christian University 459 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 3: Medical School. Patosis refers to a drooping eyelid. It means 460 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 3: the upper eyelid falls to a position lower than the other. 461 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 3: Is that genetic doctor Kendall Crowns. 462 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 11: It can have a genetic component to it. It can 463 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 11: also be associated with trauma and medical conditions in which 464 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 11: the in her own neurological system was compromised, like in 465 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 11: the struggle. 466 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 2: John Ray, high profile lawyer for the family of Shannon Gilbert. 467 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 2: You're saying that Shannon's family in the past also had 468 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 2: the drooping eyelid. 469 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 6: Yes. 470 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 9: I checked with the sister Shari and she mentioned that. 471 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 9: So it was very consistent with the taxi driver's description. 472 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 9: And there's no likelihood that the taxicab driver saw that 473 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 9: drooping lid from a picture you know, recent pictures, say, 474 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 9: posted on television. But it's possible, I suppose. But we 475 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 9: also I also vetted this woman and Rodney Harrison, the 476 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 9: police Commissioner of Suffolk County himself, sat with me for 477 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 9: almost two hours vetting this woman's credibility as well. We 478 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 9: did it together after I had already done it myself. 479 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 9: So she's eminently qualified as a witness and a credible one. 480 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,239 Speaker 9: And her description fits shadd into a tee even to 481 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 9: the pulled back hair for the you know, sex workers 482 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 9: very often wear wigs, and Shaddon was very much a 483 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 9: user of wigs. So here she is coming out with 484 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 9: her hair pulled back exactly as it would have been 485 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 9: had she had a wig. So you know, everything about 486 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 9: that this woman said was credible. 487 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 2: John Ray, I've been carefully going over literally dozens of 488 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 2: photos of Shannon Gilbert, and what I noticed is that 489 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 2: very often she wears her hair in bangs that almost 490 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 2: cover one eye. And when I first saw. 491 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: That, I thought it was just the style. 492 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 2: Now I realize she may have been covering up or 493 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 2: trying to cover up the drooping eyelid, because you know, 494 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 2: people often try to do their best to cover up 495 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 2: what they perceive to be and imperfection. Also, I've seen 496 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 2: her in many different and very very different hairstyles, and 497 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 2: it's got to be wigs. I mean, in some of 498 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 2: them she has like her hair her head is full 499 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 2: of ringlets, and. 500 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 1: Others it's completely different. 501 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 2: I mean, clearly she's wearing wigs, like you say, and 502 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 2: that after prosecuting a lot of cases involving sex workers, 503 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 2: I wasn't prosecuting them. They were typically witnesses in cases. 504 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 2: For me. Anyway, wigs are part of the costume and 505 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 2: they're utilized on a daily basis. So now we finally 506 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 2: get the Humman connection to Shannon Gilbert, I mean John 507 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 2: ray all along when authorities are saying there's no connection. 508 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 2: She just happens to be dead along beside Rex Huerman's 509 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 2: other victims. Did you ever buy that it was? 510 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 9: The theory that the police espouse from the beginning was 511 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 9: reduced to absurdity and it still is. There isn't this 512 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,959 Speaker 9: sintilla of evidence that Shannon died other than by murder. 513 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, the theory that she got upset with. 514 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 2: A different John and wandered out into the marsh and died, 515 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 2: that died of what There was never any None of 516 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 2: that ever made sense. And remember they couldn't find her 517 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 2: body when they were looking for her out in the marsh. 518 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 2: Was she just disappeared? None of that made any sense. 519 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 2: So that's two of the four witnesses. And doctor Kendall 520 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 2: Crown's question to you, you've dealt with literally thousands of 521 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 2: autopsies when you're dealing with a serial killer. Here we 522 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 2: see not only the same modus operandi method of operation 523 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 2: of disposing of the bodies, that we see the same 524 00:33:53,400 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 2: type of manner of death. Cause of death is that 525 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 2: significant when you're trying to identify the perp. 526 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 11: The manner of death, so the manner of death can 527 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:12,919 Speaker 11: be is homicide accent natural suicide. Cause of death is 528 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 11: probably what you're more referring to. Yes, Usually with causes 529 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 11: of death. With serial killers, they do like to follow 530 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 11: the same pattern. They kind of have a routine, so 531 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 11: you will see similar methods of killing an individual, similar 532 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 11: method of binding. As far as identifying of them, you 533 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,479 Speaker 11: can cluster the cases together, possibly get DNA from them, 534 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 11: but you can't get people to copy do copycat killings 535 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 11: as well, so it doesn't necessarily identify them based on 536 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 11: how they do it. 537 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 2: Is the next witness take us an hour to two eight. 538 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 5: The fourth witness comes from another state. She was a 539 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 5: sex worker for many years. She said that he would 540 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 5: service rex hurolmen over twenty times and that he would 541 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,320 Speaker 5: he was a serial user of sex workers. He would 542 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 5: sometimes have him come two at a time to his 543 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,839 Speaker 5: house and his wife was home upstairs, and in one 544 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 5: instance got very angry at one of the sex workers 545 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 5: because the wife believed that the worker had stolen an 546 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,879 Speaker 5: iron from you know, for ironing clothes and had had 547 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 5: it in the car with the driver, so the driver 548 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 5: had to get out, everybody had to search the car. 549 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 5: There was no iron, but the wife knew about it 550 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,839 Speaker 5: and knew about obviously what was going on in order for. 551 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 6: That to happen. 552 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: Wow and last, take a listener for insic Crime online. 553 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 12: The wife of Rex Huwerman has not been accused of 554 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,799 Speaker 12: any wrongdoing by police. They've even gone so far as 555 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 12: to say they believe she was out of town when 556 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 12: the murders of the Gilgil four were committed. However, in 557 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 12: an interview with the US Sun, attorney John Ray points 558 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 12: out he doesn't see how it's possible to ignore or 559 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 12: refuse to investigate Asa Eller up in light the purported 560 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,360 Speaker 12: evidence he has uncovered. 561 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 562 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 2: Sexy Rexy, it actually is nauseating to even say that 563 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 2: I'm talking about a legiterial killer. Rex Hureman arrested and 564 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:28,239 Speaker 2: initially charged with the murder of three women, Amber Costello, 565 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 2: Melissa Bartolemy and Magan Watermen. Since then, he's been charged 566 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 2: with the murders of four more, Marine Brainerd Barnes, Santra Caristia, 567 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 2: Jessica Taylor, Valerie Mack. What do we know about the 568 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 2: deaths of these beautiful women? We know their bodies were 569 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 2: found dumped along Ocean Parkway near Gilgo Beach and other 570 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 2: remote spots. 571 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: On Long Island. 572 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 2: Some were bound, some have been dismembered. There remains discarded 573 00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 2: in multiple locations. That doesn't have at all with the 574 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 2: quote life of the party, sexy, rexy, does it? 575 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 1: Does it well? 576 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 2: Listen to these facts pix eleven, Mary, thank you for 577 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 2: being with us again. Got two questions for you, and 578 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 2: the first one is about Asa Ellaup, the wife of 579 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 2: Rex Hureman. She has not been charged, she's not been 580 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,320 Speaker 2: named a person of interest, but many people have wondered 581 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 2: how she could not know what was happening. That was 582 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:37,439 Speaker 2: explained away by the fact that many of Hueman's meetings 583 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 2: with sex workers when she was out of town. This 584 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,399 Speaker 2: paints her in an entirely different light. 585 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 7: We don't know what kind of relationship miss Elearet pad. 586 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 9: With her husband. 587 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 7: We don't know the level of their intimacy. I can 588 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,399 Speaker 7: just tell you that when this indictment was announced back 589 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 7: in July, the District Attorney Rate Tyranny, took great pains 590 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 7: to say he did not that the wife had any 591 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 7: knowledge of what was going on, and even the police commissioner, 592 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 7: Rodney Harrison, said he believed that rex Huwerman was living 593 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 7: a double life. I believe anything's possible. Perhaps there were 594 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 7: sex workers that went to the house, but from what 595 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,400 Speaker 7: I'm gathering from the top law enforcement people on the case, 596 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 7: they did not think she had any involvement. I just 597 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 7: wanted to mention a couple of things. Rodney Harrison, the 598 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 7: former police commissioner, he was there for the vetting of 599 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 7: the second witness that John Ray has met with, and 600 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 7: while he said that he wanted to look at all 601 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 7: of these witnesses, he didn't want to leave any stone unturned. 602 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 7: It should be noted that he was very cautious. At 603 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,719 Speaker 7: John Ray's press conference. He didn't give up much information. 604 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 7: He just said they would look at this information. And 605 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 7: it was significant though that he was there with John Ray. 606 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,920 Speaker 7: I had never seen anything like that in my career. 607 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 7: He actually left police heads to join John Ray at 608 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,080 Speaker 7: his private attorney's office. 609 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 2: Well, I would not expect law enforcement to comment on 610 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,319 Speaker 2: potential witnesses at this juncture, but you're right, the fact 611 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,040 Speaker 2: that he's there with Ray when Ray is making the 612 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,400 Speaker 2: statements about four new witnesses, speaks volumes. He doesn't have 613 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:20,360 Speaker 2: to say anything for me to see that he's standing 614 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:25,440 Speaker 2: there in solidarity with Ray. Also, we learned about another 615 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 2: creepy I'm not through yet on these four witnesses, but 616 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 2: another creepy fact has emerged. Take a listen hour cut 617 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 2: two four two from investigative reporter Dave mack Rex. 618 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,720 Speaker 12: Huerman was so obsessed about showing off his hunting skills 619 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 12: to a female colleague that he stalked her onto a 620 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 12: cruise ship. Mirel Henriquez tells CBS forty eight Hours that 621 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 12: Hureman asked her where she was going to be on 622 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 12: her fortieth birthday cruise. She told him, I'm going to 623 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:54,759 Speaker 12: be in the middle of the ocean, and you're not 624 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 12: going to be able to find me in the middle 625 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,959 Speaker 12: of the ocean. Heureerman told her, oh, yes, I can. 626 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 12: On the second day of her birthday cruise, a white 627 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 12: envelope was shoved under her cabin door. It was a 628 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,480 Speaker 12: note from Huerman. The note said, I told you I 629 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 12: could find you anywhere. 630 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 2: Okay, that's completely irrelevant to the trial on multiple murders, 631 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 2: but wow, I wish a Juri could hear that, because 632 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:25,360 Speaker 2: it tells me volumes about rex Hueman himself. Mary Murphy, 633 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:30,240 Speaker 2: what is a significance of the Sable Motor Lodge where, 634 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 2: according to one of these new witnesses she made a 635 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 2: pickup connected to Hureman. 636 00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,319 Speaker 7: The first thing that I thought of when I heard 637 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,320 Speaker 7: save Ill Motor Lodge was the fact that just recently 638 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,880 Speaker 7: the Fedge locked it down, shut it down for good, 639 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,799 Speaker 7: because it was the scene of major sex trafficking over 640 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 7: the years. And so when the allegation was made that 641 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,479 Speaker 7: Shannon Gilbert was there and that she had allegedly met 642 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,319 Speaker 7: human there, I thought of all the human trafficking that 643 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 7: was going on. Date John Ray in this Affidavid, which 644 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 7: was a sworn Affidavid noted that it was around two 645 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 7: thousand and nine in the fall. It would probably be 646 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 7: September October two thousand and nine when this incident happened, 647 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,520 Speaker 7: and that was around the time earlier that summer that 648 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 7: Melissa Barthelemy had disappeared. But she disappeared from the Bronx. 649 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,880 Speaker 7: She's one of the original Gilgo four found on Ocean 650 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,479 Speaker 7: Parkway in twenty ten. So it becomes an interesting part 651 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 7: of the timeline. Melissa Barthelemy disappears in the summer of 652 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,640 Speaker 7: two thousand and nine, and then in September October two 653 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,880 Speaker 7: thousand and nine, this taxi driver allegedly saw a woman 654 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,840 Speaker 7: she identifies as Shannon Gilbert with Rex Huerman at the 655 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:45,319 Speaker 7: Sable Motor Lodge. 656 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,440 Speaker 2: Too John Ray, lawyer for the Shannon Gilbert family. 657 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,920 Speaker 1: In my mind, this is icing on the cake for 658 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:52,319 Speaker 1: the state. 659 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,200 Speaker 9: Well, yeah, I suppose you could say, Silvia, I just 660 00:41:56,200 --> 00:42:02,560 Speaker 9: you know, you said that the missis Rikaz, the Huriman's secretary, 661 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,879 Speaker 9: that the issue on the ocean cruiselner was irrelevant. It's 662 00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:11,399 Speaker 9: not actually Rex Heuerman. One of the items sees from 663 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 9: him in the police inventory was survivalist equipment. Doctor Peter Hackett, 664 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,440 Speaker 9: who we have pinned as one of the people responsible 665 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:25,239 Speaker 9: for Shannon's death, ran a company called Survivalist Dynamic, and 666 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:26,799 Speaker 9: he ran it with a man who was a sea 667 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:33,640 Speaker 9: captain for cruise ships. And the chances that Packet and 668 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:38,080 Speaker 9: Huerman knew each other through the survivalist operation in Long 669 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 9: Island are very strong. It's a very small group of people. 670 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 9: They tend to connect with each other, meet with each other, etc. 671 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,640 Speaker 9: And it wouldn't surprise me if there was a connection. 672 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,400 Speaker 2: There might very well be a connection in everything regarding 673 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,200 Speaker 2: tracking her down on a cruise ship. Maybe true, But 674 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:54,920 Speaker 2: after all your years of trying cases, do you believe 675 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,200 Speaker 2: that evidence will come in a murder trial? Not yet, okay, 676 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,240 Speaker 2: And that is why it would be damed irrelevant in trial, 677 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,680 Speaker 2: not irrelevant to who Rex human is. 678 00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:06,600 Speaker 1: That's why I. 679 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaker 2: Played it because it tells me who he is, but 680 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,160 Speaker 2: it's not coming into trial because it has nothing to 681 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,719 Speaker 2: do with the victim. The Gilgo Beach victims tells me 682 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 2: a lot about him, but a jury's never going to 683 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:17,359 Speaker 2: hear that. 684 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,720 Speaker 1: And I wish that they could doctor Joni Johnston joining 685 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,719 Speaker 1: me out of California. What do you make of what 686 00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:23,160 Speaker 1: you've heard? 687 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:25,480 Speaker 10: Well, I think there's so many interesting parts of this, 688 00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,560 Speaker 10: and I'd have to agree with you, Nancy that the 689 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,960 Speaker 10: whole issue of Rex Hureman tracking down one of his 690 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,680 Speaker 10: employees just to show her that he has the power 691 00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,600 Speaker 10: to know where she is at all times, speaks of 692 00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:40,520 Speaker 10: volumes about his pychology, and you know, one of the 693 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,120 Speaker 10: themes that has come up over and over in his 694 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,719 Speaker 10: case in people talking about Rex Huereerman and looking at 695 00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,799 Speaker 10: some of the pornography he allegedly was looking at. Is 696 00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,440 Speaker 10: this issue of satism and getting pleasure out of causing 697 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:53,440 Speaker 10: other people to comfort or pain and that is very 698 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:54,239 Speaker 10: consistent with that. 699 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:58,640 Speaker 2: Robin Drake, behavioral expert, former FBI special agent, what do 700 00:43:58,719 --> 00:43:59,040 Speaker 2: you think? 701 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,279 Speaker 8: Yeah, I can agree more. He keeps the splay of 702 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:06,440 Speaker 8: very consistent arc of behavior of control ower sadism, and 703 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:11,040 Speaker 8: he targets and grooms fitting all the profiles as someone 704 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,000 Speaker 8: that would do this. All these witnesses coming forward though, 705 00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,239 Speaker 8: really it's helping the prosecution. I believe, like it's been 706 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,480 Speaker 8: stated at the same time, though I keep coming back 707 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:23,000 Speaker 8: to we're seeing some law enforcement mishandling here as well. 708 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:26,839 Speaker 8: It really paints an interesting picture on what's been transpiring there. 709 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that is going to play into the defense 710 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:33,120 Speaker 2: because of the fact that there has been police misconduct 711 00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,520 Speaker 2: in the distant past, but it was during these investigations. 712 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:41,279 Speaker 2: That's all they need to argue this DNA is irrelevant, 713 00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:43,520 Speaker 2: is planted, is tainted. 714 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:44,759 Speaker 1: They're going to use that. 715 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,960 Speaker 2: And that's why these eyewitnesses that John Ray, high profile 716 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:53,280 Speaker 2: lawyers telling us about, become all the more significant because 717 00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:57,720 Speaker 2: they corroborate the DNA Mary Murphy joining US Pixy eleven 718 00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:02,560 Speaker 2: number one. The new body that has been found at 719 00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:08,279 Speaker 2: Sunken Meadows is that of a young male and it's 720 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:13,560 Speaker 2: believed it was a recent murder. Hereman's in jail. He 721 00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,400 Speaker 2: didn't do it, but you know, I think it's significant, 722 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,960 Speaker 2: Mary Murphy, because the defense can now argue, you see 723 00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:24,400 Speaker 2: the killer still out there, it's not Heureerman. Can't you 724 00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 2: just see that unfolding in court? 725 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:26,520 Speaker 11: Mary Well. 726 00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,080 Speaker 7: The first thing that I thought of when I heard 727 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,200 Speaker 7: about the body in Sunken Meadow State Park was Wow, 728 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:35,680 Speaker 7: could this be another victim? And you know I asked 729 00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,040 Speaker 7: the police commissioner about that. He told me he did 730 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:38,560 Speaker 7: not think so. 731 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:42,480 Speaker 2: The so called perfect coworker and life of the party 732 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:48,880 Speaker 2: who got his own sexy nickname Sexy Rexy now Stance 733 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:55,560 Speaker 2: accused of multiple murders. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy 734 00:45:55,600 --> 00:46:00,560 Speaker 2: Grace signing off Friday Night Special. I told you Special, 735 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:01,360 Speaker 2: you believe me. 736 00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:04,160 Speaker 1: Goodbye friend. 737 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:09,000 Speaker 11: Mm hmm