1 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: In the morning Breakfast Club. Yeah, it's the world most 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: dangerous morning show to Breakfast Club Charlomagne and God Angela. 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: Ye Envy is not with us today, but we have 4 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: some special guests who we got, ye, Alec, I don't 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 1: want to see a name learn character. I've seen it 6 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: so many times and I saw you on trepre Noah, 7 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: and I still can't do it. Hold on, that's why 8 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: cats sign. That's perfect cats sign. Yeah, that's great. Is 9 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: that really right? Though? Yeah? That's great? Okay the second 10 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: the second name ain't no easier? A liar me A 11 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: Lauren say, yes, I know you heard that for ever 12 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: growing Yes like Yemi is what everybody in the Muhammas 13 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: and my family says. But I don't identify as Yemmi. 14 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: You could say it. I'll let you. I'll let you 15 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: get it off now. Alec is the co found of 16 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: the Civil Rights Corps. Let me oh ye laying me 17 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: A liar A liar me is a lawyer for the 18 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: Legal Age Society. Good morning, How are y'all good? Great? 19 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: Thanks for having us. Now spell it? Okay, and I 20 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: know I look ridiculous for this halloweena Now, Alex, I 21 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: did I told you. I did see you Entreprenoah, and 22 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: so I'm aware of the work that you're doing. But 23 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: I want to talk about that. And I know today 24 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: we're talking about capaganda, So can you tell us what 25 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: that is? Yeah, Capaganda is the way that the police 26 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: and a lot of the companies that profit off of 27 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: the criminal punishment system in this country convince us to 28 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,479 Speaker 1: support policies that make us less safe. They make us scared, 29 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: they make us afraid, and they use that to boost 30 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: their own budgets, in their own profits. And so capaganda 31 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: is how the media is constantly getting us to focus 32 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: on low level things that poor people do and have 33 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: us ignore a lot of the things that are really 34 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: dangerous that people in power and wealthy people do, things 35 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: like wage theft that cost fifty billion dollars a year. 36 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: It's five times all property crime combined. Now, what is 37 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: wage theft? For people who are listening and like, I 38 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: don't know what that is. Wage stuff is when your boss, 39 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: your company doesn't pay you what they're supposed to pay you. 40 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: They're supposed to pay you a certain rate, and they 41 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: dock some of your hours, they don't let you take 42 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: the right required breaks, They don't pay you for getting 43 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: ready for work. They give you a paycheck that doesn't 44 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: have all your hours on it, and that costs poor 45 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: people in this country about fifty billion dollars a year 46 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: a white collar crime, right, let's be called white collar crime. 47 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 1: And you don't see that on the nightly news every night. 48 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: You don't see all the illegal evictions. You don't see 49 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,239 Speaker 1: the building code violations and the safety code violations, the 50 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: workplace safety violations. You don't see the water violations. People 51 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: are tracking lead poisoning that kills children all over the country. 52 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: There's there's government agencies that track that, but not like 53 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,239 Speaker 1: the police. They don't issue public press releases, they don't 54 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: have news conferences where they tell you which companies are 55 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 1: poisoning your kids water. And so as a result, a 56 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 1: lot of people treat shoplifting from Walgreens more seriously than 57 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: more urgently than they treat the things that are killing us, 58 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: like air pollution kills one hundred thousand people a year 59 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 1: in this country, five times more than all homicides combined. 60 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: Do you think it's because those things you can't really see, 61 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 1: you feel them, and you know the impact. But a murder, 62 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: a robbery, now rape, a child abduction, like you can 63 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: see those things. No, it's just a deliberate way in 64 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 1: which we sensationalized crime, right because eighty percent of everything 65 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: in our criminal system, all of our criminal cases are 66 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: misdemean those traffic offenses are non violent crime. But you 67 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: would have no idea if you look at what the 68 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: media plays up as crime. You would see, oh, robberies, murder, homicide, 69 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: and the actuality. If you're a public defender like me, 70 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: I've represented over a thousand people in New York City, 71 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: you're not getting those cases. They're not a bunch of 72 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: robbers and murderers and spicy cases, just as crimes of poverty. 73 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: And that's the vast majority who's in our criminal system. 74 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: But if you watch TV, if you watch all these shows, 75 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: these sensationalize it. You see a system that looks like 76 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: it's everybody there. You watch the shows, you watch the 77 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: flash Dan jail. I got a bunch of white people 78 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,119 Speaker 1: in jail. You see they have all these different kinds 79 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: of crimes, and you think, oh, I have a system 80 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: that reflects that. Then you get in any criminal courtroom 81 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: and it's just me and you just all over the 82 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: court and then the only people that look like the 83 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: white people they show you in law and Order and 84 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: all these other different kinds of people that are prosecuted. 85 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: They're there just as the police, as the judges, as 86 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: the lawyers. So I love to term you use. You 87 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: said crimes of poverty, because I feel like most criminal 88 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: things you see in the hood are crimes of poverty. 89 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: Everything from drug dealing to robbery, everything is a crime 90 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: of problem exactly. Like, That's the thing all my clients 91 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: have in common is that they're all poor, And I 92 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: think something people need to recognize. They know a public 93 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 1: defender is for poor people, but they don't realize how 94 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: poor and the fact that that's everybody there. Like, to 95 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 1: qualify for my services, you have to have little to 96 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: no income at all. Over sixty percent of people that 97 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: are incarcerated now in this country made prior to arrestmate 98 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 1: annually less than twelve thousand dollars. So that's the kind 99 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,559 Speaker 1: of poverty you're dealing with. Like I up until recently 100 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 1: identifying myself as the broke, and I would not have 101 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: qualified from my services. They would tell me I need 102 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: to hire an attorney, and I wouldn't be able to 103 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: afford one. So you have to recognize that you live 104 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: in a system. If we're in New York City, you take, 105 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 1: for example, there are almost ten million people in this city. 106 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: We have Rikers. Rikers is built a whole three thousand 107 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: people with five thousand people here, and they're all represented 108 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: by public defenders. Right, So underneath the poverty line. Why 109 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: in a city where forty two son of the people 110 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:02,919 Speaker 1: are fully white, over ninety percent of the people at 111 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: Rikers are black or brown and poor. Wow. Now I 112 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 1: want to talk about Bill reform, right, because that's a 113 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: high issue with elections coming up, and I feel like 114 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: we're getting a lot of misinformation. We talk about the 115 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: TV and what the media sensatializes, and so you've been 116 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: ALEC instrumental in making sure that Bill reform is not monetary. 117 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: Right when you talk about people getting out on bail, 118 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: Like we've just been talking about people who don't have 119 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: the money to be able to afford that. You could 120 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: be sitting in jail because you got a ticket that 121 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: you didn't pay, And now I'm in jail because I 122 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: don't have enough money to bond out. So can you 123 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: talk about that? Because I see so many people saying, 124 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: this person got out on bail and then they went 125 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: and committed this crime. And that's why Bill reform is bad. 126 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: You're letting these criminals get right back out to do 127 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: the same crimes over and over again. The first thing 128 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: you have to understand is all of those attacks are 129 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: basically paid for by Republicans. They're racist, they're unscientific. Let's 130 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: start from what we know. Why do we do Bill reform? 131 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 1: We did Bill reform. You know when I started working 132 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: on this issue after Michael Brown was killed in Ferguson. 133 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: When I got to Ferguson, Ferguson had three point six 134 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: arrests for warrants per household, almost all of them for 135 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 1: unpaid debt, almost all of them for a black family. Right. 136 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: And when people were jailed, they were jailed because they 137 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: couldn't pay cash bail one hundred dollars, two hundred dollars, 138 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: three hundred dollars. When I started working on these cases 139 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: in Ferguson, in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and California and Chicago, 140 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: there were five hundred thousand human beings in a jail 141 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: cell in this country every single night, just because they 142 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: couldn't pay, not because they were found to be dangerous 143 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: or threat to anyone, but because their families were poor. 144 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: And what we know from the scientific evidence is that 145 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: jails cause more crime because jails take people away from 146 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: their homes, their schools, their churches, their jobs, and they 147 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,359 Speaker 1: take people away from their mental health treatment, they're getting, 148 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: their medical care that they're getting. And what happens when 149 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: you destabilize someone's life like that, even two, three, four 150 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: days in jail after their arrest, you actually scientifically you 151 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 1: make them more likely to commit crime the future. So 152 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: when we started doing bailer, from these last six or 153 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: seven years, we've gotten a lot of people out of jail. 154 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: We saved a lot of people from convictions, we put 155 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: a lot of families back together, children with their parents, 156 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: and when we studied this, like professors across the country 157 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: have been studying this, and what they've found is that 158 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: it actually reduces crime. So all these talking points you're 159 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: getting if you're mongering, it's kind of like really Horton style, 160 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: like they're picking one case here, one case there, But 161 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: when you actually look at all the evidence, it's actually 162 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: like climate science denial to say that bail reform is 163 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: causing more crime. Why do you think that they don't 164 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: make prisons actual correctional facilities because I can never say that. 165 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: I know abolitionists don't necessarily believe in prisons. I can 166 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: never say we shouldn't have prisons, But why don't they 167 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: make them actual correctional facilities? Like when they go there, 168 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: they can get learn some type of trade, they can 169 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: get proper mental health services. You know, they can get 170 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: actual tools. Because there's a prophet system. That's that's that's 171 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: the reality. Right when when you say mass incarceration and slavery, 172 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: people think that you're just trying to make a moral 173 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: appeal or you're trying to condemn something, but no one 174 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,239 Speaker 1: actual if slavery is a system by which we deprive 175 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: people of their freedom and their personal liberty and we 176 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: force them to work for another's gain. Right. We have 177 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: over two million people that are incarcerated in America. Four 178 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: hundred thousand of those people are being held free trial. 179 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,119 Speaker 1: Those people in private and public prisons produce over eleven 180 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: point six billion dollars in goods for the country their families, 181 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: and fines and fees associated with the convictions and costs 182 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: are in over twenty seven billion dollars of debt. That's why, 183 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: because they're there, they're there to provide a service. They're 184 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: not there if we're funneling. When you think about it, right, 185 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: we're funneling the exact same underresource communities through the prison system. 186 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: This whole idea that the police there to protect and server, 187 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,439 Speaker 1: that myris incarceration is there for our benefit. We spend 188 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: over two hundred and seventy seven billion dollars on prisons 189 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: and policing every year, and another eighty billion dollars just 190 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: on prison and yet we say every year this is 191 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: not any safer, We're not safe for the places more dangery. 192 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: But it's the same, it's the same communities. How come 193 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: the most safe communities are not the most police communities. 194 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,079 Speaker 1: Why are they in the most underresourced communities repeatedly? And 195 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,319 Speaker 1: it's for what Alec was talking about. If it's not 196 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 1: just the fact that prison takes you away into destabilizing you, 197 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: but it also ware houses you. Amongst the worst social 198 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,559 Speaker 1: ills we all know, suicide is the most is the 199 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: leading cause of death in prisons. Thousands of people commit suicide, 200 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: and over seventy six percent of the people that commit suicide. 201 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 1: In prisons and local jails, they are held for less 202 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: than a week. So this is this like Hans Hayne's 203 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 1: obvious terrible system, and we know this and we recognize it, 204 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:27,959 Speaker 1: but yet we continue to put all the money there 205 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: and not into people because it's not there about rehabilitating them. 206 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: We know that because if you were house them, they 207 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 1: go back into their communities. But all of the same 208 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: terrible things that they've learned, all the violence, all of 209 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: the things you claim to be endemning. All it does 210 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: is guarantee if I have fines, fees and everything associated, 211 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: I'm ready the most impoverished community, and now I'm in 212 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,079 Speaker 1: further debt. What happens, What happens. That's why it's like 213 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: Chris Rock says, the money's not in the cure, the 214 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: money's in the treat exactly, and take it. Take the 215 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 1: bail system right because people are talking about bail right 216 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: now all over the country. The bail system is a 217 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: four off it multibillion dollar industry in this country. And 218 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: did you know that the for profit bail system only 219 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: exists in the US and the Philippines. Every other country 220 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: in the world doesn't let for profit companies decide who 221 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: is at home with their children and who is in 222 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: a jail cell. Now are we doing that? Have we 223 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: figured out something that every other country in the world 224 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: hasn't figured out? We figured out that it's our country 225 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: is safer when people are in jail because they can't 226 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: make monetary payments. Of course not. We're doing it because 227 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: it benefits some people, right, yeah, And we're doing it 228 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: because of what is the racial demographic makeup of our 229 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:35,839 Speaker 1: community and where we do it, because there are certain 230 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:37,439 Speaker 1: things like bail reform when you try to do in 231 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: a place like New York City or doing in Chicago, 232 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: when they're you know, dog whistling about race, then because 233 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: that's what they're saying to you, all these black people 234 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: are gonna be running the street, We're going to be 235 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: in dangered, that's what they're doing. But a place like 236 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: New Jersey can completely abolish cash bail in two thousand 237 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,199 Speaker 1: and fourteen. You don't hear a peep, right, completely successful, 238 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: totally find happen under Republican Governor Christie No complaints. All 239 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: of places where they have a majority white population and 240 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,319 Speaker 1: they have their criminals, they don't have them. They don't 241 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:02,719 Speaker 1: mask and cars rate the way we do. But in 242 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: a place like New York City, despite that we're like 243 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: this progressive blue utophia, they try to pay us as 244 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: I'll come our jails predominantly only in cars, rate black 245 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 1: around people, and that it's the same thing you get 246 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: in a place like Cook County and you get like 247 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: in LA And that's why those bail reform efforts get 248 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: those kinds of attack and focusing in on them in 249 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:21,719 Speaker 1: the media that you don't see in other places with 250 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: different demographics. What would you say to I was gonna 251 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: say the people who feel like the bail reform makes 252 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: criminals just be back in the street doing a lot 253 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 1: of the same crimes, because you know, I've had people 254 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: have things happen to them and when they find out 255 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: who the person was, it is like when this person 256 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: just got out last week for the same thing. Yeah, 257 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: so there's a let's talk about what the actual bail 258 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: is in New York City. Let me since I have 259 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: specific knowledge on that. First of all, it's the fiction 260 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 1: on what bail is for and what bail does, the 261 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: legal purpose, the actual legal standard of bail is. But 262 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: then this person is going to return to court. That 263 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: is the purpose. We don't engage in a public safety analysis. 264 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: That is something they pain to us in the media, like, oh, 265 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,839 Speaker 1: this person's in or this has nothing to do that. 266 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: That's not what happens in court. It's everything to do 267 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: with whether or not this person is going to return 268 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: to court. DoD they have a failure to a pair history, 269 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: they have a bench war in history, do they have 270 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: outside ties or something. But how bail is instituted is 271 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 1: just we're gonna put money on you, and poor people 272 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: can't pay it, and those who have the money can't 273 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: pay it. And then if you look in a place 274 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: like New York City, we instituted Lamark bail reform in 275 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 1: twenty twenty. The purpose of bail reform is to make 276 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: sure people return the court. Right prior to bail reform fifteen, 277 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: about fifteen percent of people didn't return to court after 278 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 1: bail reform. It's nine percent they've studied over so bail 279 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:36,319 Speaker 1: reform has been successful in that regard. And then in 280 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: terms of rearrest, let's talk about felonies and stuff in general. 281 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: Over eighty three percent of anything charges a felony in 282 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: New York State New York State period is not resolved 283 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 1: as a criminal conviction at all, and then in New 284 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 1: York City that's ninety six, so it goes up. So 285 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: most things in our system are just not that. They're 286 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,079 Speaker 1: just not felonies, they're not violent crime. That's not what 287 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: any of that is. But importantly, we retain the cash 288 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 1: bail system. Cash can and absolutely will be set on 289 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: you in New York City if you're accused of murder 290 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 1: or any of these things. They sensationalized you. So that's 291 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: first and foremost. But when it comes to why we 292 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 1: got bill reform, as we know, Rikers is a human 293 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: rights crisis. It's been declared that last year sixteen people 294 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 1: died in Rikers, and once that happened, that was the 295 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: largest staff tool since twenty and thirteen, they declared the 296 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: human rights crisis. This year seventeen people have already died, 297 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 1: so the situation was worse than ever before. Originally, the 298 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 1: campaign to closed Rikers, who launched after Clif Browder, received 299 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: so much a nationally like what happened to that ris 300 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: was closed and I'm gonna tell you so, the plan 301 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: was that Rikers is supposed to close by twenty twenty six. 302 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: Then they said there were delays that pushed the Backsin's 303 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: twenty twenty seven now originally Everyone's Eric Adams. Eric Adams 304 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,439 Speaker 1: said when he was running, he said he supported the 305 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 1: plan to closed Rikers and he would get on board 306 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: with that. Riker's need systemach change X Y Z. Once 307 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 1: he actually comes into office, he completely opposes bail reform. 308 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: He poses bill reform. He wants more money place in 309 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: the Rikers, more money place in, which he did. He 310 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: gave them ninety million extra dollars to their ten point 311 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: for billion dollars budget and spending. So he started immediately 312 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: pushing a gangst bail reform. So the plan for bail 313 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: reform was to decarceerrate Rikers. Rikers is only built a 314 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: whole three thousand people, but it has five thousand people there, 315 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:18,839 Speaker 1: so we need to decarceer rate Wrikers in order to 316 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: move towards the step to closing it. Eric Adams has 317 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: resisted bail reforms, So now that the numbers and Rikers 318 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: are going up, he says, well, wherever we're going to 319 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: put those people? We can't close Rikers because I just 320 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: don't see where he put those two thousand extra people. 321 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: If we don't close Rikers, So now he's opposing that. 322 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: In addition to the fact that rikers will we want 323 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: an advocates want is a receivership for rikers right now 324 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: to slow the depths. So a receivership is basically them 325 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: saying Rikers has been on the federal monitor for the 326 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: last six years. There's a judge. They periodically do updates. 327 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: She issues mandates as do this, do that, so that 328 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: we could get rikers in compliance. Rikers, they have failed 329 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: at every single step. Earlier this year, in April, they 330 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: determined that over twelve thousand medical appointments were missed by 331 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: people in our rated rikers because the corrections officers don't 332 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: take them. So the neglect is at an all time 333 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: high and there's gonna be a herring next month for receiverships. 334 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: But Eric Adams is pushing against statutes and nail. He says, 335 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: why listen, listens, But he does have a background working 336 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: with the NYPD. He's a cop. He's a cop. He 337 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: is a cop. Eric Adams is a cop. That's just 338 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: the truth of the matter. And he was a transit cop, 339 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: which is exactly why when he first came into office. 340 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: The first thing he did was rail against the subways 341 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: twenty four to seven and hire a thousand new officers 342 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: there because that is his bag and that's where he 343 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: was at. So now you would think though he had promised, oh, 344 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: he acknowledged Rikers need systemic change. Rikers is out of control. 345 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: Of Rikers was out of control when thirteen people died. 346 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: If Rikers was out of control when sixteen people died, 347 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: Rikers not out of control when seventeen people think. The 348 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: problem is as mayor right now, in our city, there's 349 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: been set an uptick in crime that the band aid on. 350 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: The problem is always less hire more cops, right, But 351 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: the problem with that is is this right, what is 352 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: the magical number that you think automatically solves solve his crime? 353 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: New York City. This is the funny thing. They highlight 354 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: us as this like lawless place, despite the fact that 355 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: Republican and all these rule areas have way more crime 356 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: per capita. Right, But they highlight us like we're a 357 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: Gotham city all the time. But we put me have 358 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: thirty over thirty five thousand officers in NYPD, despite the 359 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: fact that the media will tell you that Rikers is understaffed, 360 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: and that's that's also not true. There are five thousand 361 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: people in cross rated to rikers, but over seven thousand 362 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: corrections officers, there are two thousand more corrections off I know, 363 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: it's insane out like there's two thousand more corrections officers 364 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: and rikers, but you wouldn't know that based on that, 365 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: And it's all these different things that keep happening. They 366 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: have ten point four billion dollars they give to NYPD, 367 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: but they don't acknowledge the fact that while you're giving 368 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: more money to NYPD this year, he cut money on education, 369 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: cut money on health, cut money on everything else. And 370 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: then you act like in some mistake, it's not a 371 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: coincidence that post a pandemic. When New York City was 372 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: one of the places locked down for the majority of 373 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: the time, we had an eviction moratorium that was just 374 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: up and lifted rents, People lost their jobs, businesses closed down. 375 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: Rents has skyrocketed to what the average about four thousand dollars. 376 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: The reason why New York City has crimes because New 377 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: York City is astronomically expensive to live in, and instead 378 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:06,880 Speaker 1: of putting the money towards that, we put the money 379 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: into policing these exact same communities that don't have anything. 380 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: And I want to say, again, you can't give people 381 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: nothing and then police them and punish them and condemn 382 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: them for having nothing. So how do you message that 383 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: without saying to fund the police if that's literally what 384 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 1: the fund the police initiative is. Yes, I think the 385 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: most important thing to understand is if more police prosecutions 386 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: and prisons made us safer, the US would be the 387 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: safest country in the world. It's not. We're not a 388 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: safe country. And the reason is that Again, all of 389 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 1: the evidence shows that the root causes of crime, the 390 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,959 Speaker 1: things that are actually causing crime, are things that are 391 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: structural about our society. It's like not having places to live, 392 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 1: it's not having the support and care in your life. 393 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: It's not it's early childhood education, it's it's it's the 394 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 1: defunding of those systems, the welfare systems that that support 395 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 1: people and their families and their communities. After school programs, 396 00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 1: the music, the theater, the athletic programs for kids. These 397 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: are the things that actually reduce crime in the long term. Also, 398 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: things like lead poisoning right that's associated with criminal activity 399 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 1: for years in the future. If children are exposed to 400 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: lead and so these are like basic things that everyone 401 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: who actually studies this knows. And unfortunately, we've got a 402 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: political system and in a very profitable prison system that 403 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 1: is hell bent on convincing us that the only solution 404 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 1: to any of these problems ever is more cops. And 405 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: the sad thing is more police prosecutors in prisons actually 406 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 1: make us less safe in the long term. Everybody knows 407 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 1: money and resources or what make things about it. They 408 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: know that that's why they have a for profit jail system, 409 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: if they're making money to feed their family and they're 410 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 1: never asked to reconcile. My thing about the fair thing 411 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 1: is the people that are constantly fairmongering to you about 412 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: how dangerous is that, how we need more police are 413 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: never always telling you that when they talk about black 414 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: and black crime, according to them, all the violence, all 415 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: the crime is happening to us in our own community. 416 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: So if you're own, if we're the sole perpetrators and 417 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,880 Speaker 1: victims of violence and victims of crimes, shouldn't our opinion matters? 418 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: Shouldn't it be relevant? Like why do you need if 419 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: you're afraid? You're afraid, so you need more police place 420 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,719 Speaker 1: than my community? Make that make sense, right, and why 421 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 1: aren't we consider the experts on this. It's it's not 422 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: lost upon me that the people that push for criminal 423 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: justice reform, the people that you see pushed from from 424 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: Bill reform, the people that you see being the advocates 425 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 1: for this are the people most experienced with this. Those 426 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 1: are the people living those communities. Those are solutions. Exactly. 427 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: Can I ask um, Aliami and Alec what made you 428 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: guys decide to do this work? In particular as attorneys me? So, 429 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 1: I came to America because I wanted to be a lawyer. 430 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: So I knew that when I came to America. But 431 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: in college, I was I thought I might be a 432 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: divorce attorney because I was like, ooh, drama, that might 433 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: be spicy. But I was writing my thesis called Colored 434 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: Bodies Matter, the relationship between our bodies and power, And 435 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 1: I think the Ferguson protests were happening at the time, 436 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: and my thesis advisors is white Lady dofor Kathleen and Sullivan, 437 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: who I love. She said it affectionately to me. She 438 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: called me a gap scholar, which is someone in academics 439 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,360 Speaker 1: an academy who points out a problem, but they don't 440 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: necessarily have a solution or they're doing anything towards that, 441 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: which is a necessary role. But I remember saying, you know, 442 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: in a criminal system where black people are disproportionately represented 443 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: and incarcerated, I feel like it's insufficient for me to 444 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: go be an attorney and not do something that directly 445 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: benefits my community. And I just think we are You're 446 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: not just a fact affected by whether or not you're incarcerated, 447 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: Like the criminal system doesn't just hurt you if you 448 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: getting up with a criminal conviction or you're incarcerated, but 449 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: just being criminalized going through that process, all the collateral 450 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 1: consequences and the psychological effects of internalizing that, and I 451 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: think that is better impacted if you're represented by somebody 452 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: who looks like you, and it's going to humanize you, 453 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 1: and just basically the only black person in the courtroom 454 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: shouldn't be the defended. For me. I started my career 455 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 1: as a public defender in Alabama, and the things I 456 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: saw there really shook me to the core. I the 457 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: case after case after case was it was exclusively poor people. 458 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: It's almost exclusively people of color, and they were being 459 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: punished in ways that made no one safer, and I 460 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 1: got into this work because I really care about safety, 461 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: and so I started doing civil rights work. A few 462 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 1: years later, and my first civil rights case, you know, 463 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: I got a grant to start at my own nonprofit 464 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: and I went down back to Alabama and I went 465 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: into a courtroom, and I just think it's important for 466 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: people to understand what's actually happening in these courtrooms. And 467 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: this is why I do this work. I saw sixty 468 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 1: seven people in that courtroom in Alabama that morning. All 469 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: of them were black. You were all chained together in 470 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: the front of the room. Not a single one of 471 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: them was charged with a crime. You know why they're 472 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: all there. They're all there because they owed debt to 473 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: the city of Montgomery, Alabama. And one by one I 474 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: watched them begged to the judge. You know, Judge, I 475 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: have four children at home. One of them my children 476 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 1: is disabled. Judge, I've been addicted to drugs. I can't 477 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: pay these tickets. Judge, I'm a homeless veteran. Please don't 478 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:42,679 Speaker 1: make me. And one by one, the judge ordered them 479 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: into jail. And I went up into the jail that 480 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: day and I started interviewing people, and I met this woman. 481 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 1: She showed me her court document. Her court document said 482 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: pay US twenty eight hundred and seven dollars or sit 483 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: fifty nine days in jail. She explained to me that 484 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: in Montgomery, you got fifty dollars for every day you 485 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: spent in jail. And she turned over her court document 486 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: and in pencil she was writing numbers fifty fifty, fifty, 487 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: seventy five, seventy five, and she was acting them all upping, 488 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: and she explained to me that if you agreed to 489 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: clean the feces and the blood and the urine and 490 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 1: the mold from the floors that all the women were 491 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: sleeping on top, you got an extra twenty five dollars 492 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: a day toward your debt. And she was counting the 493 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: days and subtracting the money because when the police raided 494 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: her home, she had her one year old in her 495 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: lap and her four year old next to her, and 496 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 1: they took her away from her kids because she owed 497 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: traffic tickets and she hadn't seen her kids in weeks. 498 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 1: And that was my first client as a civil rights lawyer. 499 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: And that's why I still do this work, because there 500 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 1: are hundreds of thousands of people jailed because they can't 501 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: pay tickets and debt. In this country, there are hundreds 502 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: of thousands of people jailed pre trial and bailed just 503 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: because they can't make a payment, and our society is 504 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: still unsafe. And so people like Ola and I do 505 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: this work because we're trying to tell people that the 506 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: story you're told in the media, not just Law and Order, 507 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: but also the New York Times, not just the New 508 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: York Post, but also NBC, the story you're told in 509 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: the media is not what's actually happening to people who 510 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 1: are vulnerable in our society every single day in our courts. 511 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: What happened today, young lady, we filed it was actually 512 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: my first case. I really had no idea what I 513 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 1: was doing, and we filed a federal civil rights case 514 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: and they released her almost immediately, and you got back 515 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: with their kids, and they released everybody from the jail actually, 516 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: and so then we started bringing those cases all over 517 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 1: the country. We in the first ten months of twenty fifteen, 518 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: we brought twelve these same class action lawsuits challenging people 519 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: being jailed just because they couldn't pay, in twelve different 520 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: cities across the country. We started doing it. We've filed 521 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: dozens and dozens of them over the years at Civil 522 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: Rights Corp. We're still doing it because as many of 523 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: these cases as we went. We won a big case 524 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: in Houston, for example, Harris County, Texas, and about nineteen 525 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: thousand people a year getting out of jail in misdemeanor 526 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 1: cases alone, just because we stopped the practice of jail 527 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: people because they couldn't pay a couple hundred dollars. And 528 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: we're saving about twenty four thousand convictions in Harris County alone. 529 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: But you know what, almost every other count in Texas 530 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: is still doing that let alone, let alone California and 531 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: Oregon in Arizona. I mean, these problems are our nationwide, 532 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: and a lot of people want to think it's a 533 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: it's a problem in the South, or it's a problem 534 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: in New York City, but it's a problem everywhere because 535 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 1: the legal system is very similar across the country, or 536 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: they only want to be outraged by the particular one case. 537 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: They right, And that's what I feel like is missing, right, 538 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: is the proper messaging and the information for people to 539 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: see that because, like I said, but the elections, this 540 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: is such a hot topic right now, but the narrative 541 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: that's being put out there, I think, more loudly than 542 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: anything else, is that it's a bad thing because repeat 543 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: criminals are going to get right back out and do 544 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: the same thing again. I think I Illinois did a 545 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: phenomenal job of messaging that to the GOP, and Illinois 546 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: did a phenomenal job of messaging that to their people. 547 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 1: But the whole purge thing, you know, because if you 548 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: read define prints, like you said earlier, it's not like 549 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,159 Speaker 1: they're letting out murderers. Yeah, it's not that at all. 550 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,360 Speaker 1: The pre draw Fairness Act is not that at all. 551 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: And also I want to say law enforcement was very 552 00:24:57,920 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: involved in the making of the law and was a 553 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 1: four year process of scrutiny of victims, of victims, survivors, advocates, 554 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: law enforcement, legal professional and personnel being involved in hearing 555 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,959 Speaker 1: scrutinizing that for four four year process. So they call 556 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: it the purge, right, that's what they've been marketing it as. 557 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 1: But what's fascinating is that the law doesn't go nearly 558 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:22,400 Speaker 1: far enough because it's Illinois. It's it's it's actually judges 559 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,920 Speaker 1: can detain you without moneymail if if there's evidence that 560 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 1: you're dangerous. They can detain you. Yeah, and so it's 561 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: it's it's not only is it misinformation, but it's it's 562 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 1: targeted misinformation paid for by Republicans and a lot of 563 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: unfortunately a lot of the media, the mainstream media just 564 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 1: picked it up. They loved saying the purge right, and 565 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 1: it made a lot of ordinary people across Illinois totally 566 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: misunderstand that law. And that law is going to save 567 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 1: lives because that law is going to get people back 568 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: to their medical care, to their children, to their schools, 569 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: to their churches and their communities, and it's going to 570 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 1: prevent them from destabilizing their lives in ways that that 571 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 1: actually increase crime in the future. And so that law 572 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 1: needs to go further. Doesn't go further enough. That's why 573 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: Democrats need to hire whoever does Nike's marketing. Honestly, it's honestly, 574 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: you know what it is. Though, I think it's too 575 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 1: much um defensiveness instead of clarifying, like the immediate fair 576 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: when they get natural pushback. And I feel like I 577 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: have this conversation a lot in the professional spaces I 578 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 1: work in. We're supposed to expect pushback that shouldn't alarm us. 579 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: It shouldn't send us into a like an anxious rush. 580 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,360 Speaker 1: And I think what happens is Democrats instead of coming 581 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: out like Hotel should have done in this race, like 582 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: there shouldn't be this race between her and zeld and 583 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: shouldn't be as close as it. And you know why, 584 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 1: because she could have come out and have effectively they 585 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: could have there been and she should and she should 586 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: because you know what, and and listen and not for nothing. 587 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: Like I said, these Republicans are quick to put their 588 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: money behind Let me put it on ball alert, let 589 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,199 Speaker 1: me put it there, let me they know who they 590 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:50,879 Speaker 1: need to get to, because it's about how you get 591 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,640 Speaker 1: people talking about something casually within the streets. That's where 592 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: support comes from. And what she should have done. There 593 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 1: have been studies all kind of support for the fact 594 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: that bail were form is not linked to a rise 595 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:02,159 Speaker 1: in crime. She could have come out, she could have 596 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: highlighted this information. She could have talked about in fact, 597 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: all of the things that they already do. But instead 598 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: they decided to ignore it for the until the ninth hour. 599 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,959 Speaker 1: And instead of coming out and saying, hey, Republicans are 600 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: lying to you, they are fairmongering to you. Here is 601 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: the actual result. They're like, I swear, we're gonna do 602 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,639 Speaker 1: it as good as out. We're gonna be his inten system, 603 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: rather than just acknowledging actually what you did in presenting 604 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: the information to people, because the reality is the average 605 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: person does not have time to be, you know, in 606 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,160 Speaker 1: every aspect of politics and reading anybody's law and stuff 607 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: they rely on. They're gonna consume, you know what I mean, 608 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,120 Speaker 1: They're relying you to tell them. And if all you're 609 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: doing a sensationalizing and fairmongering to them about crime every day, 610 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: that's all they see in the Post, that's all they 611 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:37,880 Speaker 1: see in the Times. And then they had this Republican 612 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: putting all these things, and instead of you actually responding 613 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: to that, clarifying and giving them the actual information, you go, 614 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 1: I swear I feel just as strongly as the Republican 615 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: like that doesn't help, because now now you're just piggyback 616 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,680 Speaker 1: in on their their message. And that's the problem I 617 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: think democrats have in general. We too often respond and 618 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: if you let people control the narrative rather than talk 619 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: for us, get our story out. They could have been 620 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: explained and they could and they have every reason to 621 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: be in a better position to do it. We have 622 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:04,640 Speaker 1: Democrats in every office in New York City and every 623 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 1: DA's office, and every council and every This is nothing 624 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: but democrats. You had every opportunity to put the message out, 625 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: but instead because you're scared, because you panic, you you know, 626 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: you wait, you ignore, you deflect it. Now you're a 627 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: stuck and we're all just in a bad a fairmongering 628 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: that it's not going to help anybody and ultimately is 629 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: going to end up harm in black and brown New 630 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 1: Yorkers who don't have the time, But they don't have 631 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: the time of the structural advantage of the privilege to 632 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,239 Speaker 1: be worrying about all of this until they are one 633 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 1: suffering for it in a criminal court and they're looking 634 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: at rikers and all kind of nonsense because you weren't 635 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: being proactive. What about President Biden say for America Plan, 636 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,239 Speaker 1: we don't think of that plan is a disaster. I agree, yea, 637 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: the plan is a disaster. It's not a serious plan. 638 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: I mean it's attempting to add one hundred thousand new cops. Look, 639 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: as I said earlier, this country spends more money on cops, 640 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: prosecutors in prisons than any society in the record of 641 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: history of the modern world. Did you know that the 642 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: US has five times the prison population that we are 643 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: our own society had fifty years ago. We now cage 644 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,479 Speaker 1: black people at six times the rate of South Africa 645 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: at the height of apartheid. Yes, the solution is not 646 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand more cops. And Biden knows this. Biden 647 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: knows what the scientific evidence shows. He knows the early 648 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 1: childhood education and healthcare right and giving people resources in 649 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: their community. He's not. He's not like he's made this 650 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 1: mistake before. And they know that, and they and you 651 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: know what, they know it because when they come at 652 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: the end of the day, there's so much gas, lightning, 653 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: pandering and wasting our breath. They make us do because 654 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, when it's their children, 655 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: when it's their family members, whenever you see it's a 656 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: scandal involving somebody, their husband, their kid, I'm not they 657 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: don't want crime. That's not even on the table. They 658 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: are not interested. You don't hear nobody jumping up talking 659 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: about e really thing prison would help, that really help 660 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: under you know what I mean. They're not saying that. 661 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: They know that, they're so much empathy for his own son, 662 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: and his son fought his addiction exactly exactly now. But 663 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: the elections coming up, like we've been discussing, right, if 664 00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: Republicans get control of Congress, how do you think that's 665 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: going to affect everything. We're a very dangerous moment with 666 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: the Republican Party. It's incredibly Remember I remember when I 667 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: used to use the word fashion. If it's like, oh, 668 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: you're overreacting. Yeah, fashion, we're not getting going there in America. Yes, 669 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: I've had people come on this show and telling me 670 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: that when I would we're fast approaching fashion. Yes, people 671 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: with people to the state, people get mad when I 672 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: say no, it is less stop engaging and legitimizing and 673 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: pretending they are a white supremacists. They're galvanized around that. 674 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 1: It's so interesting. The problem with living in a country 675 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: that treats everything else as other and white as the 676 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: default is all the rest of us. When we're actually 677 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: rallying around our interests, So what we actually need to 678 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: do to survive? Then it's identity politics. But it's conveniently 679 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: ignored that we have an entire party that is galvanized 680 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: around nothing but whiteness and white supremacy loud in our face. 681 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: We know what it is. The most clear, transparent it 682 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: is gone from from rhetoric. You have to parse out 683 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: our statistics. You have to go get a magnifying glass 684 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: to insurrections and all kinds of foolishness. We know it 685 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,959 Speaker 1: as clear as day. So dangerous is an understatement. They 686 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 1: are quite literally right now. There are two there are 687 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: two cases today in front of in front of the 688 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: Supreme Court challenging the Formative Action. And we all already 689 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: know with this mickey mouse court we have we saw, 690 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: we already know what's gonna go. We already know what's 691 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 1: going to go. And the only the only benefit I 692 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: could see is it's important for people to start seeing 693 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: that people are the champion of their own civil liberties 694 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: and not the government and not the court, because the 695 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: Court in these finals places have been very instrumental throughout 696 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: all of America's history and legitimizing all kinds of discrimination 697 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: and preda just prejudice. Is it now, is there anything 698 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: we can do? Because you know you mentioned the court, 699 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: It's like the courts are already stacked, like from the 700 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: Supreme Court through the Federal Court, Like what do you 701 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: do well. The federal courts are really stacked, and of 702 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: course that's a long, multi year strategies a lot of 703 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: us are working on. But the Republicans, that's right. And 704 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: a lot of people didn't see this, but the architect 705 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: when the main architect of that, the Federal Society, they 706 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: just got a one point six billion dollar donation. A 707 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: lot of people aren't talking about this. That's more money 708 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: than basically the entire criminal justice reform field has spent 709 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,959 Speaker 1: in the last decade. Yeah, and one donation from one 710 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: person to the federals that they imagine what they did 711 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: without that one point six billion dollars. So I think 712 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 1: what we need to do is understand that it's not 713 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: just federal courts. There are the court systems across the 714 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,239 Speaker 1: country are full of elected and appointed judges all over 715 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: the country, in every city, there's thousands and thousands of judges. 716 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: There's thousands and thousands of opportunities to get involved in 717 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: your own community, court watching, bail funds, mutual aid. There 718 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: are ways to get involved in your own community right 719 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: where you are and watch what judges are doing. You 720 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 1: can work efforts to change how your local legal system 721 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: is operating. It's actually kind of an exciting time in 722 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: some respects because across the country people are coming together 723 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: and realizing that something has to be done. How can 724 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: you find information on what y'all to do? I would 725 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: say Justice not Fair dot org is an incredible website 726 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: and resource that's been following and actually debunking and giving 727 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: you the actual fact statistics and everything coming out for 728 00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: bail reform in New York City bill reform and county 729 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: bill from all these different places. Though, Justice not Fair 730 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: at oorg is an incredible resource. And for you guys, 731 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: your organization, My organization is called Civil Rights Core. You 732 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: can find us on social media at civ Rights Core. 733 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 1: I write a newsletter about copaganda and all this stuff 734 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: in the media we were talking about, called Alex Copaganda Newsletter. 735 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: You can find me at a Quality alec on Twitter. 736 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: And you know, we both of us, we work on 737 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,959 Speaker 1: these issues because they're incredibly important and we're an incredibly 738 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: important time and so it's not just enough to read 739 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: about them and to look at social media find out 740 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: who in your community is organizing against expanding the jails, 741 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: and who in your community is building mutual aid, and 742 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: who is watching court and who's running a local bail fund? 743 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: And get involved in your own community. There's so many 744 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: amazing organizers across the country every city, I mean, and 745 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: reach out to us. If you can't find them in 746 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: your neighborhood, reach out to me on Twitter dm me 747 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: and I'll connect you with someone in your local community. Yes, 748 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: oh yeah, my sub stack is Olurinati. It's my baby. 749 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: I release an essay every month and the Muhamas would 750 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: really us owe me if I didn't mention that's from 751 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 1: the Bombas while I'm on hand, so I hear to 752 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: act because you sound like you're from Charleston. But oh 753 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 1: my god, I noticed the Bama is he saying they 754 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,800 Speaker 1: would be upset the Bomba. The only person from that 755 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: I had shout out the Bahamas like that is Duvall. Listen, listen, 756 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 1: he loved here. You know what. I'm not even saying 757 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 1: that little love. He loved the Bahamas. He beat there. 758 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 1: Yeah you know, I know, but himas we know, and 759 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 1: him is let me know like we claim, we have decided, 760 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:29,879 Speaker 1: we claim BA. So yes, and make sure you guys 761 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: voting before you vote, make sure you know who you're 762 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 1: voting for, because like you just said, it is very 763 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,280 Speaker 1: important that you hold people accountable in these local elections 764 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 1: where you can actually make some changes. Now, it is 765 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: an exciting time, but we're nervous. Thank y'all for joining 766 00:34:44,280 --> 00:35:01,760 Speaker 1: us Man thanks to Breakfast Club. Would would