1 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey there, 2 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. 3 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: I'm an executive producer with iHeart Podcasts and How the 4 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: Tech are You. So we're continuing our episodes about tech 5 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: startups that met their end in twenty twenty three. Last 6 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: episode we covered a cloud services company, a cybersecurity firm, 7 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: an organization that provided telemedicine services to pet owners, as 8 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,279 Speaker 1: well as a music streaming service, all of which had 9 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: to close up shop in twenty twenty four for various reasons. 10 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: Though I should add that cybersecurity firm did later emerge 11 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: out of bankruptcy earlier this year and has a new 12 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: lease on life. So it was only, in the words 13 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: of Miracle Max, mostly dead. But what other startups had 14 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: their end downs in twenty twenty three? See what I 15 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: did their startups and downs? Well, how about a real 16 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: estate company that went on to embrace technology. You can 17 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: think of it as kind of like a cyborg real 18 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: estate company if you will. It didn't start off as 19 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: a tech company, but it would embrace tech as part 20 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,839 Speaker 1: of its DNA. I think of a lot of tech 21 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: companies when you boil it down, or at least a 22 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: lot of tech startups end up not really being that 23 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: much about tech. Tech tends to get tacked on or 24 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: you know, sloppily incorporated into the company identity, but in 25 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: reality you're really just talking about some other business. We Work, 26 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: I think, is the perfect example. Right. We Work is 27 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: treated as a tech company. You find articles about we 28 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: Work in like websites that cover tech news, But we 29 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: Work is really just a real estate company. You know, 30 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: it's a company that ends up purchasing or leasing office 31 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: space and then sub leases it to tenants. That's it. 32 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: The tech thing is kind of superfluous, but we still 33 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: treat it like that because it's part of this startup culture. 34 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,679 Speaker 1: So please forgive me that some of these intrigues are 35 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: tech light, But I think, if anything, they really illustrate 36 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: problems that exist in the venture capital community. And I 37 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 1: would argue venture capital has caused so many problems by 38 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: elevating ideas that weren't ready like, ideas that just could 39 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: not be viable, and then pushing them to the moon, 40 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: and then ultimately these ideas failed. The example that well, 41 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 1: besides we Work, the example that leaps to mind is Therhanose, Right, 42 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: Theharrannose was a company that was based on a critically 43 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: flawed premise, one that could not possibly have worked, and 44 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: there was a lot of sunken cost fallacy going on 45 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 1: around Thearrahnose. I've done an episode or two or three 46 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: about Pharahnose in the past, so we won't go over that. Plus, 47 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: we're focusing on stuff that died in twenty twenty three. 48 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:17,239 Speaker 1: Therhos's old news. So we are turning to this real 49 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: estate company, and its story is a doozy because this 50 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: particular company had raised hundreds of millions of dollars just 51 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: one year prior to having to liquidate everything. So I'm 52 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: talking about a company called viv v EEV, and Viv 53 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: is a special case for us, partly because the tech 54 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: part of tech startup is debatable, but the other big 55 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: reason is that Viv was a unicorn. That's a startup 56 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: that reaches a valuation of at least one billion with 57 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: a B dollars. So for a company to hit Unicorn 58 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: benchmarks and still fizzle out just one year after achieving 59 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: unicorn status, in fact, that's noteworthy. I mean, that's a 60 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,119 Speaker 1: that's a precipitous fall. So Viv's origins are rooted back 61 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight, when a'm A Holler and 62 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: Ami Avrahami founded an asset management and real estate development 63 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: company in Israel. So Holler and Avrahami had met in 64 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: the early two thousands back in Israel. Holler had founded 65 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: a mobile handset company called IXI Mobile and Avrahami had 66 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: served as the product manager for that company, and then 67 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: they continued to go into business with one another, and 68 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: they would co found a different real estate startup called 69 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: Really r Eali that launched in twenty fifteen, so that 70 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 1: came after VIV, but it would shut down in twenty 71 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 1: twenty two after interest rates and inflation hit the real 72 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 1: estate market really hard and it just became an unsustainable business. 73 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: And as it would turn out, Really would be kind 74 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: of a preview of what would happen to VIV. Like 75 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: VIV predated Really and it lasted longer than Really, Like 76 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: it closed after Really did, but like Really, it would 77 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 1: not be able to stick around. So VIV originally started 78 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: off with a different name. The one that it was 79 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: known for for the first few years of its existence 80 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: was the Dragonfly Group, but it switched to VIV in 81 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. By then, VIV was also changing its focus, 82 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: like it had been kind of a more classic real 83 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: estate company, but it would describe itself as quote a 84 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: vertically integrated developer focused on building innovation end quote. And man, 85 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,799 Speaker 1: you gotta love buzzwords that don't actually tell you anything. 86 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: You know, you got to keep it vague, y'all. Anyway, 87 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 1: VIV was emphasizing homes made out of prefabricated elements. So 88 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:55,159 Speaker 1: think of like modular homes made up of various cubes, 89 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 1: or a homemade of prefabricated walls that essentially click into place. 90 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: That kind of thing. It's meant to drastically reduce the 91 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 1: time and money it takes to construct a building. But 92 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff hit around the same time, and 93 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: I'm sure it made it very challenging to maintain a 94 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: home building business posing as some sort of tech company. 95 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: I guess the prefabricated part was largely seen as the 96 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:25,359 Speaker 1: tech element, but the pandemic and inflation and interest rates, 97 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: all of these things contributed to runaway real estate costs. 98 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 1: While potential home buyers were holding back because I mean, 99 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: who could afford to buy a house in that market 100 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: In March twenty twenty two, Viv secured a four hundred 101 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: million dollars in funding. That is when VIV officially hit 102 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: Unicorn status in its valuation. But by November of twenty 103 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: twenty two, just a few months later, the company had 104 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: had to downsize by around thirty percent, which meant they 105 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: laid off about one hundred employees. The following year, VIV 106 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: would be forced to go into liquidation after the company 107 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: could no longer deliver upon financial obligations they had to 108 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: their various partners and their employees, meaning they couldn't afford 109 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: to pay anyone. All US based employees were let go. 110 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: At that point, VIV ownership transferred to the real estate 111 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: company Lenard. That's a that's an enormous real estate company, 112 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: and according to an Israeli tech journal, the transaction was 113 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: for quote several dozen million dollars end quote now several 114 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: dozen million dollars. That's a big junk of change. I 115 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: wouldn't mind finding several dozen million dollars in my couch. 116 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: That would be awesome. But we also have to remember 117 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: that just a year earlier, VIV had hit a billion 118 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: dollar valuation, so being sold for a few dozen million 119 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: dollars was a heck of a markdown. Avrahami was let go, 120 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: as was another co founder named Dafna Akiva, who had 121 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: served as the chief revenue officer for the company. And 122 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,239 Speaker 1: hitting a billion dollars of value only to go bust 123 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: a year later is really rough. Like it's hard to 124 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: put into perspective how something like that happens. Now. Obviously 125 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: we're talking about an incredibly expensive business. Anything that's involved 126 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: with home construction. We all know that those costs went 127 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: up around the pandemic era. I mean, there were supply 128 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: chain issues. Raw material costs were through the roof, Like 129 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: if you wanted to build a house around twenty twenty 130 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,839 Speaker 1: to like twenty twenty two, it was suddenly way more expensive. 131 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: Then you also had things like labor shortages, which made 132 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: it even more complicated. You had shortages in skilled labor, 133 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: so if you needed someone like a skilled electrician or plumber, 134 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: that was really hard to come by. There were just 135 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: not that many out there that you could get access to. 136 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: So there were a lot of factors that all happened 137 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: at the same time, and it's possible that VIV would 138 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: have stuck around had it been just a little bit 139 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: more established. I don't necessarily know that it was mismanaged 140 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: or anything, but there were a lot of external factors 141 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: that were stacked against it. But you know, hitting a 142 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: billion dollars of value only to go bust a year 143 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: later is tough. What if instead you hit two billion 144 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 1: dollars in value and still went bust. And what if 145 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: the company was known for pizza making robots. That's right, 146 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: we have pizza making robots coming up next with our 147 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: story of a company called Zoom. Zu me. I will 148 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: tell you that sad tale after we come back from 149 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: this quick break to think our sponsors. Okay, so the 150 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: super easy but not entirely accurate description of Zoom is 151 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: that it was a startup that used a kind of 152 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: food truck delivery service for pizza, but it had other 153 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: tech elements to it. For example, a robot back at 154 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: Zoom headquarters would do some early prep on a pizza, 155 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 1: so you would have this pizza dough, it would already 156 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,199 Speaker 1: be formed into the shape of a pizza, and a 157 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: robotic arm would apply pizza sauce, the idea being that 158 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: it would be a consistent amount of sauce and consistently 159 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: distributed because you've got a robot, it's just going to 160 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: do the same thing over and over and over again. 161 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,959 Speaker 1: You never have to worry about having repetitive stress injury. 162 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: You just might have to do some maintenance every now 163 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: and then. That was the first part. You might say, huh, 164 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: that seems like a pretty high tech solution to something 165 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: that's not really a problem. That's a key early indicator. 166 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: After that, you would actually have a human staff member 167 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: who would add toppings according to the order that were 168 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: coming in to Zoom. So customers would order a pizza 169 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 1: with certain stuff. The robot would put some sauce on 170 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: a pizza, a human would put toppings on the pizza, 171 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: and then they would load this uncooked pizza into the 172 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: back of a delivery truck. Now, the delivery trucks had 173 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: ovens with GPS trackers in them, so the oven would 174 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,599 Speaker 1: know quote unquote where it was, and it was programmed 175 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: so that it would bake the pizza at a rate that, 176 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: in theory, would mean the pizza would be fully cooked 177 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: shortly before the truck would actually arrive at the customer's location. 178 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: So the idea is that this pizza is hot and ready. 179 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: Little Caesars, eat your heart out hot and ready as 180 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: the truck is pulling up to deliver this pizza, and 181 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: then there was another robot in the trucks that could 182 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: cut the pizza, slice it into the proper slices, and 183 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: then boom, the customer would have themselves a really, really 184 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: fresh pizza delivered to their home or play of business. However, 185 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: just saying that zoom was this, that's doing a disservice 186 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: to the company, which was more than just pizza. They 187 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: had larger ambitions. When they actually formed those ambitions, that's 188 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: hard to say. A lot of the accounts suggest that 189 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:20,079 Speaker 1: at least after the pizza business failed spoiler alert, that 190 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: they were like, oh, well, that was just kind of 191 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,959 Speaker 1: a use case, a test case for what we want 192 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 1: to do, which is a much larger idea. Some people 193 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: have suggested that maybe they said that only after the 194 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: pizza thing failed, when they said, how can we take 195 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: these ideas we had and turned them into something viable. 196 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: I don't know the truth of the matter, but the 197 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: story goes that they had these larger ambitions. Unfortunately, just 198 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: delivering on the promise of a well made pizza would 199 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: turn out to be a lot harder than they anticipated. 200 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 1: Let alone, the more lofty goals of doing stuff like 201 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 1: using data to predict consumer behavior so that you can 202 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: maximize your fleet of delivery vehicles and thus, you know, 203 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,439 Speaker 1: deliver more than just pizza, and to do so really efficiently, 204 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: not to mention, you know, be able to anticipate things 205 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: within the supply chain so that you're able to cut 206 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: costs that way. Those were sort of the big ideas 207 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: that would form when they formed. I don't know if 208 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: it was actually part of the plan all along to 209 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: make this a larger business, or if it was just 210 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,959 Speaker 1: something that kind of came up after the pizza delivery 211 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: business started to falter. I can't say for sure. Now 212 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: for this particular entry in our list of startups that 213 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: failed in twenty twenty three, I am relying heavily on 214 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: an amazing piece, truly. It's a great article and it's 215 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 1: written by Jared Herman. It's a ja ryd Jared Herman 216 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: and Herman wrote an article titled Why Zoom Died, How 217 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: Melting Cheese Burnt a two point three billion pizza delivery 218 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:57,199 Speaker 1: startup run by robots. It's a great title. You can 219 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: find that piece on how they grow. That's the website 220 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,319 Speaker 1: it's a thorough explanation of the mistakes that led to 221 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: Zoom's demise by someone who really understands business far better 222 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: than I do. So if you want insights as to 223 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: what went wrong that go well beyond my capabilities, I 224 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: recommend checking out that article, all right. So co founders 225 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: Julia Collins and Alex Garden got the initial idea for 226 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: Zoom sometime around twenty fifteen, and the goal was to 227 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: take a lot of the labor costs out of making pizza. 228 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: You would automate as much of the process as possible, 229 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: and this would be disrupting the pizza market Silicon Valley style. Now, 230 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: the plan included a big data element as well, not 231 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: just consumer behavior, but everything up and down the supply chain. 232 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: So the thought was, if you can be nimble, then 233 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: you can take advantage of the market. You can buy 234 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: from different suppliers to minimize costs while you are guaranteeing 235 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: the best quality ingredients for your pizza, and you can 236 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: measure the convenience of buying from one place that might 237 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: charge more, but that place might be closer to your operations. Therefore, 238 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: it would reduce transportation costs and minimize food waste through 239 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: stuff like spoilage, so like, there are all these different 240 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: factors that usually are very difficult to account for, and 241 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: the idea was that with data you could start to 242 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: anticipate these things more effectively and thus run at a 243 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: level of efficiency that's never been seen before and that 244 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: would really save you money in the operation side. So 245 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: this was an audacious plan from the get go. Just 246 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: a bit about preparing pizzas in the back of a 247 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: moving vehicle would prove to be really tricky. Zooms soon 248 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: discovered that cooking pizzas in a moving vehicle isn't the 249 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: best if you want predictable, consistent outcomes, because there are 250 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: a lot of forces at play, Like there are bumps 251 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: in the road, their stops, their starts, you know, acceleration, deceleration, 252 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: all of that can have an effect on the construction 253 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: and cooking of a pizza. So while the pizzas would cook, 254 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: Zoom discover that cheese would slide around and burn, and 255 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: topping's distribution would be inconsistent due to this, and it 256 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: just wasn't a very smooth production as was first envisioned, 257 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: and it meant that consumers were disappointed, like they would 258 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: get pizzas, and they would look terrible because it wasn't 259 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: like a pizza that had been cooked in a stationary 260 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: kitchen and then shipped over to the customer. It was 261 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: cooked in an oven that was moving all over the place. 262 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: And sure, you might say that the founders should have 263 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: anticipated this. That anyone who has ever ridden in a vehicle, 264 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: especially if you've had to stand up in a moving 265 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: vehicle like on a bus or a subway train or something, 266 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: you know that even a boring, uneventful trip can cause 267 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: some lurching and such. And perhaps that bit of the 268 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: plan was just a little too unrealistic. But as Jared 269 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: Herrmann points out in the article I mentioned, a bigger 270 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: problem might have been that the team was looking at 271 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: multiple challenges all at the same time, rather than focusing 272 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: on just one before incorporating or attacking another challenge. Herman 273 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: argues that Zoom was quote trying to be three things 274 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 1: all at once, a technology company, a pizza shop, and 275 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: a sustainability play end quote. However, the pizza delivery service 276 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 1: was just part of this puzzle, right. The real goal 277 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: of Zoom, according to the co founders, was to figure 278 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: out how to leverage all these individual pieces, right, a 279 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: fleet of delivery vehicles. Now the logistics of operating those vehicles, 280 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: this message of sustainability, how to take all of that 281 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: and to apply all the data that was being gathered 282 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 1: for various purposes. The pizza delivery business was therefore just 283 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: a use case, sort of prototype test run. Now, the 284 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,439 Speaker 1: pizza delivery business did not go smoothly, it was not 285 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: a success. But then the whole thought, or least is 286 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,120 Speaker 1: how it was communicated, was that the team would learn 287 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: from their mistakes and their failures. They would correct those issues, 288 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: try again, and keep going down that route toward a 289 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 1: sustainable business that could run on proven technologies, and that 290 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: this business could then be ported for all sorts of 291 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 1: different use cases, not just pizza delivery. That's not exactly 292 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: what Zoom actually did, though, So while they might have 293 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: communicated that this was their plan, their actions spoke differently. 294 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: So first they tried to stick with the pizza delivery thing. 295 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: They switched gears so to speak, not to use a pun, 296 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,399 Speaker 1: but rather than driving an oven around town, they would 297 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: park the truck's food truck style. They would cook the 298 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: pizzas in their food trucks, and they would rely on 299 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: delivery drivers to pick up finished pizzas at the trucks 300 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 1: and then deliver them to customers. I assume they also 301 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: depended on delivery drivers to bring the uncooked pizzas to 302 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: the food trucks in the first place, unless the food 303 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 1: trucks were just stocked with all the ingredients, because remember, 304 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: originally the idea was that the initial assembly of the 305 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: pizzas happened in a stationary kitchen. Anyway, it was just 306 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: that then the uncooked pizzas would be sent to the 307 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: delivery trucks. So I don't know if that step still 308 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: existed at this point where they went to the stationary 309 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: food truck model. If it did, that adds unnecessary steps, 310 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: right like why are you preparing a raw of pizza 311 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 1: in one place, shipping the raw of pizza to a 312 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: second location for cooking, and then shipping from that location 313 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 1: to the customer. That seems unnecessary. So I don't know 314 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: for sure that that's what they were doing, but if 315 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: it was, they definitely were not making it more efficient, 316 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: and no surprise, this still did not work out. It 317 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: did not make a successful business, so the company did 318 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 1: a pivot to a more farm to table food truck approach, 319 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 1: so again not just pizza but other stuff. This involved 320 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 1: licensing the technology to other companies, but none of that 321 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,199 Speaker 1: seemed to really click right. It certainly wasn't becoming a 322 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: sustainable business. In twenty nineteen, zoo Zom shifted to something 323 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: entirely different. So instead of preparing and delivering food, the 324 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: company got into the business of producing food packaging. Not 325 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 1: food itself, but the packaging that food goes into, which 326 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: is wild like. That is a heck of a pivot. 327 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: The boxes that Zoom produced were made from plant based material, 328 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: so once again the goal of promoting sustainability was emphasized 329 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: as part of Zoom's mission statement. So rather than using 330 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 1: single use plastic, you could have food packaged in plant 331 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: based boxes. But there was one teeny tiny little problem. 332 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: These boxes contained polyfluoroalkyl substances or pfas. So these are 333 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: chemicals that have a long shelf life. They can be 334 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: found in various organisms that have absorbed these chemicals, and 335 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 1: they have potential links to quote harmful health effects in 336 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: humans and animals end quote. That's according to the Environmental 337 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: Protection Agent here in the United States. As such, some 338 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: places do not allow food to be packaged in boxes 339 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: that have pfas in them. One of those places happens 340 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: to be San Francisco, which is obviously where most tech 341 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: companies in the United States incubate and grow. So that 342 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: was a huge setback for Zoom, and it turned out 343 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: that all that data that Zoom was touting as being 344 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,880 Speaker 1: like the key to their business strategy could not make 345 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,879 Speaker 1: this business work despite more than two billion dollars raised 346 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: in various funding cycles over the lifespan of Zoom. So 347 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 1: in June twenty twenty three, Zoom shut down. If you 348 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: want to dive deeper into the various factors that led 349 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: to this sad end I recommend you check out that 350 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: article on how they grow, the one that's written by 351 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 1: Jared Herman. But way up among those reasons is an 352 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 1: argument that ultimately Zoom was a hammer in search of 353 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: a nail. It was a solution to a problem that 354 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,719 Speaker 1: didn't really seem to exist. So just because an idea 355 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 1: is interesting doesn't mean it's going to be a practical 356 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: business in the real world. That is a pretty tough 357 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: lesson to learn, particularly if you're an investor who has 358 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: sunk millions of dollars into that idea. Okay, we've got 359 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 1: a few more stories to get through. There's two in one, 360 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:30,679 Speaker 1: and there's also a story I found incredibly unsettling. But 361 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: before we get into all that, let's take another quick 362 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: break to thank our sponsors. We're back with startups that 363 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 1: failed in twenty twenty three, and this is a two 364 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: for two different companies offering very similar services. And both 365 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,479 Speaker 1: of these companies would fail in twenty twenty three, and 366 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 1: both are located or we're located in Europe. So first up. 367 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: In twenty twenty one, a group of German entrepreneurs founded 368 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: a same day grocery delivery service that catered primarily to Berlin, 369 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: Germany's population of Turkish and Arabic residents. This business was 370 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 1: called Yababa and secured more than fifteen million dollars in 371 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 1: seed funding. Initially, things seemed to be going pretty well, 372 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: and the co founders had aggressive plans to scale up 373 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: the company and launch services in other European cities, including 374 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: ones outside of Germany. Now that sounds to me like 375 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: those plans were perhaps a bit too aggressive. It actually 376 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: kind of reminds me of stories I would hear during 377 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: the dot com rush here in the United States. In 378 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: the late nineties, you had these companies that pushed to 379 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 1: scale super fast and rapidly reached a point where the 380 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: cost of operation was so great that it was outpacing 381 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,199 Speaker 1: the amount of investment coming into the company, or the 382 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 1: investment plus revenue. Usually if the company had a way 383 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,360 Speaker 1: of generating revenue in the first place. In the dot 384 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: com days, that was never a guarantee. There were companies 385 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: that had no business plan to speak of that still 386 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 1: got huge amounts of investment in those dot com gold 387 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: rush days. So providing same day grocery delivery services in 388 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: a single city is already a huge undertaking. There are 389 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,239 Speaker 1: so many operations you have to take care of for 390 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: that to work, laying the groundwork to do the same 391 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 1: in other cities, and scaling up operations to support that 392 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: kind of work. That's a gargantuan task. It's hard to 393 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: stress how difficult that is, particularly for a startup. It's 394 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,959 Speaker 1: not something that I think you should rush into. Yubaba, however, 395 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: embraced the challenge and in early twenty twenty three, despite 396 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: burning through investor cash at a heck of a rate, 397 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: the company launched a pr campaign to raise awareness of 398 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,880 Speaker 1: the service in Berlin, and the hope was this would 399 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: help encourage another round of investors who, again, due to 400 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: global economics, we're being a little more conservative with their 401 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: cash than they might have been previously. Like, it's hard 402 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 1: to get excited and think you're going to get rich 403 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 1: quick if you're taking out a loan to invest in 404 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: a company and the interest rates are out of control. 405 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: When interest rates are low, It's amazing how willing people 406 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: are to spend money that isn't technically their own. I mean, 407 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: I guess that's generally true, right, It's amazing how how 408 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: quick some people are to spend other people's money. This is, 409 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 1: by the way, something I genuinely do not grow on 410 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: a personal level because I find it. I find myself 411 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: growing anxious if I am in charge of handling anything 412 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: that involves other people's money, like that includes using a 413 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: corporate credit card. I'm like, like, I have to be 414 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: one thousand percent certain that what I'm using it for 415 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: is in fact totally appropriate and approved before I use it, 416 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: because I have this sense of responsibility. It's not fear, 417 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: it's accountability. But some people they're really cool with using 418 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: things like corporate credit cards to buy all sorts of 419 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: stuff and then maybe they deal with the consequences later, 420 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 1: and that just blows my mind. Anyway, for whatever reason, 421 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: these investors were discouraged from putting more money into Yebaba, 422 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 1: and so this funding round failed to coalesce in early 423 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, and unfortunately Yebaba was at a point 424 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: where they needed that influx of investment money because buying 425 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 1: the stuff so that they could then sell it to 426 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: their customers, and it reached a point where they couldn't 427 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 1: afford to pay partners anymore, they couldn't purchase the stuff 428 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: they would need in order to meet their customer and demands, 429 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: and they had no real option other than to file 430 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 1: for insolvency. Now that being said, I did find that 431 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,239 Speaker 1: the website still appears to work, or at least the 432 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 1: website still exists. I didn't make an account. I don't 433 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 1: live in Berlin, Germany, so I'm not sure that I 434 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: could make an account. I couldn't find any official reports 435 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: about whether ya Baba sold its assets to some other 436 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 1: entity which is then continuing its operations, or if the 437 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: website is just a holdover from before filing for insolvency, 438 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: and maybe the website is still active but doesn't actually work. 439 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe ya Baba itself even rose from 440 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: the ashes, maybe it's operating as its own business again. 441 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: But again I'm not seeing any news articles that actually 442 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: say that. All the news articles reference ya Baba shutting down, 443 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: not a new ya Baba rising up, and sites like 444 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: Pitchbook list Yobaba as being officially out of business. So 445 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: in lack of any other information, that's what I'm going 446 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,439 Speaker 1: with anyway. Over in the United Kingdom, there was a 447 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 1: similar company called Ojah Oja. It was founded in twenty twenty, 448 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: so it actually pre dates Yababa by a year. It 449 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 1: was founded by a woman named Mariam Jamo, a British 450 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: Nigerian citizen and a former banker. Like Yababa, Oja focused 451 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,239 Speaker 1: on grocery delivery services in the UK, catering to a 452 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: niche market. In Oja's case, it was African and Caribbean 453 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: grocery items. Oja received a little modest two point nine 454 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: million pounds in initial seed funding. You know, ya Baba 455 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: had fifteen point five million, so it got much more 456 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: at its origin and later on Oja got an investment 457 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: from a noteworthy individual Raheem Sterling, a soccer or football 458 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: player of some renown. I don't know who Sterling is, 459 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: but I don't follow football, so that's that's on me. 460 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: Jamo was really boasting about Sterling's investment in twenty twenty three. 461 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: In May of twenty twenty three, and that's pretty brazen 462 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: because it was literally just weeks before for Oja, the 463 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: company that Sterling invested in, got shut down. In fact, 464 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: according to the Standard, Jimo was boasting about Sterling's involvement 465 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: in an interview with the Sun while simultaneously her company 466 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: was facing the second of what would become several legal 467 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: claims regarding unpaid bills. And it turned out that Oja 468 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: had run through its investment funds and had failed to 469 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: pay produce suppliers and other partners. So there were these 470 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: bills that were just not getting paid by Oja. Some 471 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: said it even looked that like Oja was selling produce 472 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: for less than what it cost the company to buy 473 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: that produce. That's clearly unsustainable, right, So maybe the idea 474 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: was to try and attract a customer base that this 475 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: was going to be a lost leader. But if you're 476 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: dependent upon investment to keep you afloat. Then you need 477 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: to have a pretty big cushion there for this to work. 478 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,479 Speaker 1: And maybe the idea was that gradually OJA would increase 479 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 1: prices so that it would become a more realistic business. 480 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: But you know, if you're buying stuff for five pounds 481 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: and you're selling that same stuff for three pounds, you're 482 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: clearly only in the business of losing money. That's what 483 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: your business is. On top of all that, employees were 484 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: in a tight spot because the company had failed to 485 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: pay them as well. Some said it felt almost like 486 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: they were unemployed, but they still had to come in 487 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: to work a job, which is a big ol' yikes. 488 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: The standard also cited an internal Slack communication thread in 489 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: which Jimo responded to employees asking about their pay with quote, 490 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: there is nothing to pay you with Stop talking to 491 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: me about this end quote. Further complaints would result in 492 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: Jamo telling employees to take it up with HR. Here's 493 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: the rub with that. The head of HR was Jimo's 494 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: own mother, which I mean, come on, like nepotism right there. 495 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: That's that's rough. Customers felt the effects as well the cump, 496 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: and he began to miss deliveries, so customers found themselves 497 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: in a stalemate while seeking refunds for goods that were 498 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 1: never delivered to them. By the end of July twenty 499 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: twenty three, the company was done for and it stopped 500 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: delivering on July thirtieth and was handed off to administrators 501 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: for liquidations. That these two businesses failed isn't really that 502 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: big of a shock. While they provided services that their 503 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: customers likely really wanted. The margins for grocery delivery services 504 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: they're razor thin. They're so thin, and in the early 505 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: years of these businesses, a regular flow of investor cash 506 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: is often necessary to keep things going while you build 507 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: scale that ends up being sustainable. But both Yababa and 508 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,959 Speaker 1: Oja launched just when factors were discouraging investors in general, 509 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: let alone people who might invest in a delivery service 510 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: that isn't likely to make them tons of money like 511 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: it might be a good return on investment down the line, 512 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: but it's not the sort of business that typically gets 513 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: you rich unless some other massive company acquires it for 514 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 1: a ridiculous amount of money. So the fact Ya Baba 515 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: and Oja both shut down in twenty twenty three isn't 516 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 1: so much a comment on how well they handled things, 517 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: because even if economic factors had been more favorable, it 518 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: still would have been a really challenging business to run, 519 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: just because of the nature of that business. So I 520 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: don't want to suggest that either Yobaba or Oja were 521 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:35,239 Speaker 1: run poorly. Other people might have more insight into that, 522 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: but even if they had been run perfectly, there was 523 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: no guarantee of success in that climate. Okay, our final 524 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: entry is in my opinion, a real bummer, So apologies 525 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: ahead of time. This is also a story that has 526 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: allegations about the CEO that makes that CEO seem like 527 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: potentially one of the worst bus is to work for 528 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: in the tech space. And y'all know my opinions about 529 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: Elon Musk. That is, this is not Elon Musk I'm 530 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: talking about. So it's saying something if I think this 531 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: guy merit's mention in that space, if the allegations are true, 532 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: I need to say that because it could be that 533 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 1: the allegations aren't true. It's also very sad to talk 534 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,959 Speaker 1: about this next one during Pride Month because we're going 535 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 1: to dive into the strange story of Daylight. So Daylight 536 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: was a neo bank platform with a focus on the 537 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: LGBTQ plus communities, and it sounds to me like this 538 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: startup had the terrible burden of a CEO who was, 539 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 1: at best the wrong person for the job. At worst, 540 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 1: he was allegedly a toxic influence who was very good 541 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: at making his staff feel incredibly unwelcome and uncomfortable. All right, 542 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: So a ton of the information I'm relying upon here 543 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 1: comes from an amazing article in New York Magazine by 544 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 1: Jen Weissner and Jen, if I am butchering your name, 545 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 1: and undoubtedly I am, I apologize, could be Weisner, but 546 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: the article is titled the Meltdown of a Gay Bank 547 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: and then what went wrong with an LGBTQ plus startup 548 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,839 Speaker 1: set out to disrupt finance. So in that piece, Jen 549 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,360 Speaker 1: and I apologize for the familiarity, but I feel like 550 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: I can pronounce your first name. Jen reveals that Daylight 551 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: was initially the idea of a Slovak entrepreneur named Mattege Fatacnik. 552 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 1: Talk about butchering names, I'm just going to keep doing this, 553 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: but it was Ftacnic who brought in Rob Curtis. Rob 554 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: Curtis is an Australian entrepreneur whose CV has so many 555 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: different companies listed. Then it begins to beggar belief. Although 556 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 1: you would later find out, or at least if you 557 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: read this article, you would find out that Rob Curtis 558 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 1: allegedly has been shown the door in more than one 559 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 1: of his experiences as an employed person. That's a polite 560 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 1: way to say he's been fired a lot. But Curtis 561 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: had worked at various companies and organizations with mission statements 562 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,840 Speaker 1: that related to the LGBTQ plus communities over his career. 563 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: Not all of them do, but a lot of them do, 564 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 1: especially toward the more recent career choices he made, and 565 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,240 Speaker 1: so he was very much in that world and had 566 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,840 Speaker 1: made various connections. Curtis was brought in to this venture, 567 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 1: and he then brought in two other UK based business partners, 568 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 1: Billy Simmons and Paul Barnes Hoget. So these three, Curtis, 569 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: Simmons and Barnes Hoget would become known as the co founders. 570 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,479 Speaker 1: As to what happened to Mattege, he would serve as 571 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: the chairman of the board. Some said that this was 572 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 1: essentially his project and then Curtis ran away with it. 573 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: I don't know the truth of that. I just know 574 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 1: that it's mentioned in the various articles, so that with 575 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 1: a grain of salt, but the concept of Daylight was 576 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 1: that this new bank would be a welcoming service for 577 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 1: folks who were in the LGBTQ plus space. People would 578 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: be treated fairly, They would not be discriminated against. People 579 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: would be able to secure credit and bank cards that 580 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: had their chosen name on them, not whatever legal name 581 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 1: had been assigned to them, but their chosen name, so 582 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: they didn't have to be dead named every single time 583 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:32,280 Speaker 1: they used a card. Presumably, queer customers would encounter fewer 584 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: roadblocks for major transactions such as securing a mortgage or 585 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: other loan. The company hired extensively from the LGBTQ plus communities, 586 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,280 Speaker 1: many of the staff identifying as queer or trans et cetera. 587 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: The New York magazine piece paints a rather unflattering portrait 588 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: of CEO Rob Curtis, which is to put it lightly so. 589 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,319 Speaker 1: According to the article, Curtis had said that he had 590 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: been fired from jobs before due to being something of 591 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 1: a troublemaker, and the implication appeared to be that Curtis 592 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: was kind of saying he spoke his mind and he 593 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 1: stood up for his community, like he would stand up 594 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 1: for LGBTQ plus folks, and that this kind of behavior 595 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 1: where he was unapologetically standing up for his community was 596 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 1: seen as unacceptable in the very stuffy established English banking industry. 597 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,839 Speaker 1: That appeared to be the implication. However, Staff told New 598 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: York Magazine that upon interacting with him on a professional level, 599 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,759 Speaker 1: it seemed like Curtis wasn't so much a punk rock 600 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,280 Speaker 1: kind of leader. He was more of just a punk 601 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: like someone who behaved poorly and showed little regard for 602 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: other people in his organization. There's a description of a 603 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,760 Speaker 1: huge party that Curtis threw in his home that sounds 604 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: like something that came out of an over the top 605 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,919 Speaker 1: nineties comedy, mixed in with a bit of the cluelessly 606 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,760 Speaker 1: inappropriate behavior you would expect from Michael Scott in episodes 607 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: of The Office The US Office. I'm not going to 608 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,399 Speaker 1: repeat the stories about that party here because I think 609 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: everyone should actually go read the article for themselves in 610 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 1: New York Magazine. It's free to read, there's no paywall. 611 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:11,520 Speaker 1: I highly recommend it. But the party definitely doesn't come 612 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: across as remotely appropriate or at all respectful of employees. 613 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 1: And their feelings. You know, there's being disruptive, which is 614 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: not necessarily a bad thing, but then there's also being 615 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 1: downright disrespectful and in my opinion, cruel, and I feel 616 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: the descriptions of that event fall more in the second 617 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:32,120 Speaker 1: category than the first. But that's my opinion. Curtis would 618 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,880 Speaker 1: actually deny a lot of the allegations that various employees 619 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,759 Speaker 1: brought against him in a federal lawsuit where they made 620 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,719 Speaker 1: these claims and others, And I certainly don't have any 621 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,680 Speaker 1: firsthand information as to what was going on behind the 622 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,240 Speaker 1: scenes at Daylight. I do not know if the numerous 623 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 1: allegations against Curtis actually have merit. There are a lot 624 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 1: of them, and there seem to be a lot of 625 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 1: people corroborating them, but I don't have direct knowledge. If 626 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 1: they are true allegations, then I do think he'd be 627 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 1: in the running for worst boss to work for in 628 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 1: my book. But maybe those allegations aren't true. I try 629 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: and maintain a level of objective fairness, but boy howdy, 630 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 1: it sounds bad. The New York magazine piece also mentioned 631 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,879 Speaker 1: some questionable and shady stuff on the business side, including 632 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 1: manipulating numbers to make Daylight look better to investors, like 633 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 1: inflating the number of customers that the company had. In 634 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: some cases, it just means making stuff up. For example, 635 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 1: there are allegations that management invented a fake study to 636 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,520 Speaker 1: make it seem like Daylight had a much broader reach 637 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 1: than it really did. And I guess really it's more 638 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:46,319 Speaker 1: than allegations, because apparently the company owned up to fabricating 639 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 1: the study, and that's crazy. Fast company actually wrote a 640 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,800 Speaker 1: piece that was based off the findings of this study, 641 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 1: and the study ended up being bogus. The day after 642 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: the piece came out, Curtis allegedly revealed that Daylight had 643 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,760 Speaker 1: managed a revenue of just one dollar forty seven cents, 644 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 1: not one point four to seven million dollars, but a 645 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: dollar forty seven at least, assuming I'm reading the article correctly, 646 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 1: that is abysmal. Daylight launched new features, including tools meant 647 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 1: to help customers with family planning, including tools meant to 648 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 1: help secure financing for fertility treatments or to help queer 649 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,240 Speaker 1: couples pursue an adoption. But it was either too little, 650 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 1: too late, or it was the nail that sealed the coffin. 651 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:36,440 Speaker 1: In May twenty twenty three, Rob Curtis posted on Medium 652 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,759 Speaker 1: that quote, I'm incredibly sad to announce that today we 653 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 1: are closing Daylight, the first and only LGBTQ plus banking 654 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 1: platform in the USA end quote. He would also write 655 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 1: quote I feel now is the right time to exit 656 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 1: this market end quote, which I bet is true. I 657 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 1: bet he felt that that was the time to exit. 658 00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:58,719 Speaker 1: In fact, he probably felt it was a little late. 659 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,840 Speaker 1: He laid much of the blame for the company's failure 660 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: on larger economic factors, things like interest rates, primarily which 661 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 1: admittedly that is a huge issue. He claimed the company 662 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 1: had quote opened thousands of trans inclusive debit accounts, supported 663 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: thousands of prospective LGBTQ plus parents' plans for their families 664 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,480 Speaker 1: end quote, which might be true, But the various articles 665 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,160 Speaker 1: I've read have suggested that the customer base was much 666 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,759 Speaker 1: smaller than that. However, again, those are from articles. They're 667 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: not from like internal documents from the company itself, so 668 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,360 Speaker 1: maybe the articles got it wrong. As for that federal 669 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,360 Speaker 1: lawsuit that was filed against Daylight and its co founders 670 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,319 Speaker 1: that ended up getting settled out of court in the 671 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,000 Speaker 1: summer of twenty twenty three, the settlement was filed like 672 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,680 Speaker 1: in late July. I do not know the details of 673 00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,799 Speaker 1: that settlement. I don't have access to that document. But 674 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,319 Speaker 1: the settlement would mean that the matter would be dismissed. 675 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,400 Speaker 1: So you could say that the court case was dismissed. 676 00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,719 Speaker 1: But to me, that sounds like the court found that 677 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:03,040 Speaker 1: there were no merits brought to the court, like that 678 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,759 Speaker 1: the plaintiffs had no real basis for the lawsuit. The 679 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,000 Speaker 1: fact that it was a settlement changes that narrative, right. 680 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,880 Speaker 1: But Rob Curtis would go on to found a tequila company, 681 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 1: so that's why he went to next I think that's 682 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,319 Speaker 1: interesting because one of his earlier jobs was working for 683 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,279 Speaker 1: a company or an organization called drink Aware, which is 684 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:26,040 Speaker 1: dedicated to helping customers quote develop a personal strategy to 685 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,080 Speaker 1: reduce harmful drinking end quote. So now Curtis runs a 686 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:34,560 Speaker 1: company that pairs influencers with booze. The mind boggles, right, 687 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:38,080 Speaker 1: Like to go from a company that's meant to help 688 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,200 Speaker 1: people manage their drinking in a way that's responsible to 689 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:47,120 Speaker 1: promoting a tequila brand by bringing influencers in. It's just wild, 690 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,320 Speaker 1: Like it's given me whiplash, y'all. And this particular story 691 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,160 Speaker 1: stings a lot for me. I get particularly upset when 692 00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:57,600 Speaker 1: people who are coming from disadvantaged or vulnerable communities encounters 693 00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,640 Speaker 1: setbacks like this. I have no doubt that many of 694 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,560 Speaker 1: the people who worked for Daylight truly believed in the 695 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,680 Speaker 1: company's mission and to know that they found themselves out 696 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaker 1: of work in the spring of twenty twenty three, as 697 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:13,040 Speaker 1: well as the company supposedly dedicated to supporting these communities 698 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:17,920 Speaker 1: had failed so spectacularly that must have been really hard. 699 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,319 Speaker 1: I hope they all found gainful employment with organizations that 700 00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:25,880 Speaker 1: value and respect them. Because dang, y'all. Okay, that's a 701 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:30,279 Speaker 1: look at some more startups that failed in twenty twenty three. 702 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 1: There are more than just those, Unfortunately, you know. I 703 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,319 Speaker 1: wish that I could say, like we covered them all, 704 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,840 Speaker 1: but no. Lots of other startups also met their untimely 705 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 1: end last year. Maybe I'll do another episode to kind 706 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,279 Speaker 1: of wrangle up some of the stragglers, because there's some 707 00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:50,280 Speaker 1: good stories in there too, some good lessons to be learned. 708 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,600 Speaker 1: I think. In the meantime, I hope all of you 709 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,319 Speaker 1: are well. We're coming to the end of it. But 710 00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,239 Speaker 1: happy Pride Month, everybody. I really hope you take care 711 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,640 Speaker 1: of each other, show compassion toward one another. It's the 712 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,920 Speaker 1: only life we have. Let's make it a good one 713 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,560 Speaker 1: if we can. And I'll talk to you again really soon. 714 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 1: Tech Stuff is an iHeartRadio production. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 715 00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:25,960 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 716 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:30,520 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.