1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:01,680 Speaker 1: Trust me. 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 2: Trust me. I'm like a swat person. I've never lied 3 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 2: to you. 4 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: Do you think that one person has all the answers? 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: Don't welcome to trust me? 6 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 3: The podcast about cults, extreme belief and the abusive power 7 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,639 Speaker 3: from two Angelino's who've actually experienced it. I am Lola 8 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 3: Blanc and I do not want to be called Angelino. 9 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 4: And I'm Megan Elizabeth and I'm the one who suggested it. 10 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 4: We've used to blink everything to call ourselves. 11 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 3: Oh no, no, no, there are so many more, I 12 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 3: mean many more. 13 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 4: You were like, what could it be? And I was 14 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 4: like looking around. I was like two pencils to I 15 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 4: don't know why. I said to thora birch'es like, you know. 16 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 1: We could be just every white actress there is. 17 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 5: Yeah. 18 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 3: Today, our guest is Gloria Jackson Nefertiti. She is a poet, 19 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 3: a singer, and a speaker on topics like polyamory, bisexuality, 20 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 3: and her own experience with autism. She's going to tell 21 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 3: us what it was like being the only black woman 22 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 3: in an all white Cultish Christian group in college, the 23 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 3: racism and bullying she experienced, what it feels like to 24 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 3: be laughed at, all the time, and why autistic people 25 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 3: like herself are uniquely susceptible to coercive control. Plus how 26 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 3: to protect yourself or your loved one with autism yep, and. 27 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 4: We'll also discuss what seemingly small life changes helped her 28 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 4: realize she needed to leave, how her late autism diagnosis 29 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 4: has given her clarity on her life, and how she's 30 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 4: been able to embrace who she really is, which is 31 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 4: a lovely human being. Might I add, I really really 32 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 4: really enjoy. 33 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 3: Her, Megan, Please tell me what on earth is the 34 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 3: couldiest thing that's happened to you this week? 35 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 4: Okay, So I was talking to somebody and they seem 36 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 4: to like energy work, just as I do, you know, 37 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 4: manifestation conversations kind of, and they were asking a few 38 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 4: questions about my energy, which I thought was like super cool, 39 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 4: you know. But then at a certain point I realized 40 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 4: that it was a scientologist and they were doing the 41 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 4: dianetics diagnostics what is. 42 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 3: It called dianetics dynamatics dianetics. 43 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 4: On me, And I was like, oh my god, so 44 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 4: are you a scientologist? 45 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 2: Now? 46 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 5: I am no. 47 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 4: I politely declined the offer, but it is scary how 48 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:31,519 Speaker 4: much in common there are. 49 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 3: Al Ron Hubbard sure incorporated a lot of things from 50 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,279 Speaker 3: a lot of other places that you probably would. 51 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: Connect with, so that makes sense. 52 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 3: But they admitted they were scientologists, and did they try 53 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 3: to get you to like come to something like how 54 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 3: did it end? 55 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 5: I mean it. 56 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 4: Ended with me being like, oh my gosh, yeah cool, 57 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 4: I mean I should look into that. 58 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: Oh you're so sweet? 59 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 4: Oh man, Yeah, but it is just like fucked up, man. 60 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,639 Speaker 4: And I'm scared to say that because they're so powerful, but. 61 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: I think will be okay. I think they have bigger 62 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: fish to fry. We haven't done a Scientology episode yet, 63 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: but we have one. 64 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 4: Come soon, while we can do one on me when 65 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 4: I leave, since I'm obviously joining what's your cultiest thing 66 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 4: in the week? 67 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 5: All right? 68 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: So the app club House? 69 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 3: Right, everybody yes downloading it and everybody's on and everybody's 70 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 3: talking about it. It's the big thing I have. I 71 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 3: loved it immediately. I loved listening to all of the 72 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 3: wildly diverse perspectives that I got to hear on there. 73 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 3: But I also kind of hate it because I hate 74 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 3: public speaking, and I hate phone calls and I hate 75 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 3: zoom and it's kind of like an amalgamation. 76 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: Of all of those. 77 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 5: Wow. 78 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 3: However, I recognize that it is an incredible place for 79 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 3: people to connect and exchange ideas and you know, just 80 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 3: really get access to each other in a way that 81 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 3: I think is really important. 82 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: During COVID. 83 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 3: That said, there are so many people who about multitude 84 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 3: of topics as though they are the authority on that 85 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 3: app and I am like looking up some of them 86 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 3: and I'm like, what are your credentials here? And it's like, good, well, no, not, 87 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 3: that's not much. They just like have a confident voice 88 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 3: and know a little bit about a subject. And I've 89 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 3: heard people expressing some concern about the potential for people 90 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 3: to be scammed this way because they're presenting themselves as 91 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 3: authorities on stuff that's related to like money or whatever 92 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 3: it may be. But yeah, I don't know, it's kind 93 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 3: of fascinating. It's like a little social experiment to see 94 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:43,799 Speaker 3: who emerges as acknowledged as a leader in a particular area. Lalao, lalao, Yeah, 95 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 3: which is oversimplifying. There's some people who really have interesting 96 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 3: things to say and who really are educated in the 97 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 3: topic and whatever. It's obviously like all kinds of people 98 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 3: on there, but there is just room for some of 99 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 3: the shadier people to kind of jump in. 100 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,559 Speaker 4: You know, God, this is why we can't have nice things. 101 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 4: It's like, hey, look, you guys, it's a place for 102 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 4: people to talk to each other. 103 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 5: Scams. I know, Jesus, let us have it for ten minutes. 104 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: Honestly. 105 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 3: The worst thing about it is how many actors in 106 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 3: Los Angeles I know who are starting actor rooms. 107 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: Oh I'm talking about acting. 108 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 5: Oh dear, Oh sorry. 109 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 3: Sorry, I'm an actor. Oh why do I hate on 110 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 3: actors so much? Actors are great? 111 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: Love them. Hey, listening to them talk about acting it's hard. 112 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 5: But come to my acting class. It's at its just. 113 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: Kidding Scientology Center. 114 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, they will make you famous, so if. 115 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 5: It's worth oh, definitely infamous for sure. Ah. 116 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 3: I tried to reach out to Beck to get him 117 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 3: to come on this podcast to talk about his scientology experience. 118 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: He ignored me. Damn it, back Beck, come on, I'm on. 119 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 4: Back Beck is one of my favorite musicians, and the 120 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 4: fact that he's not on this podcast is really annoying. 121 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 5: I'm gonna freak out. 122 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 3: Back If you're listening, which I know that you're not, 123 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 3: please come last podcast. 124 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I think he actually doesn't like talking about scientology. 125 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: I think that's probably why. 126 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 5: I think he doesn't like talking about anything. 127 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: My favorite kind of man JK. Opposite, opposite. 128 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 3: All right, there's no good segue here, But we love Gloria. 129 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 3: We should start getting to know her. 130 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: Story now, Yes, ma'am, here we go. Welcome Gloria Jackson Nefertiti. 131 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you. 132 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 3: Start us at the beginning, like, what was your childhood 133 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 3: like leading up to your college experience? Where are you 134 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 3: at when you first meet this group. 135 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 2: The way that I started out was I was was 136 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 2: born and raised in Mississippi. I was born in nineteen 137 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 2: fifty six. And not only that, but I was born 138 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 2: into a really, for lack of a better term, I mean, 139 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 2: it was a domestic violence type of environment, you know situation. 140 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 2: My mother was really the one who got the brunt 141 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 2: of the violence, physical and mental, you know, although I 142 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 2: mean we certainly got our share of it as well. 143 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 2: You know, I have traumatic brain injury, and the reason 144 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 2: for that is from the constant blows to the head, 145 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 2: you know, for my father. Yeah, and I'm sure that 146 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 2: I'm not the only one who has the traumatic brain 147 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 2: injury in the family, you know, right, I mean, I'm 148 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 2: sure that my mother got way worse than I did. 149 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 2: So it was also a very religious family, and so 150 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 2: you can imagine that there was plenty of hypocrisy. And 151 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 2: at the same time, in school, I was bullied constantly. 152 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 2: You know, I had no idea why. I mean, I 153 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 2: realize now that is because of autism. You know, I 154 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 2: was diagnosed. It was in May twenty nineteen, six months 155 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 2: before I turned sixty three. 156 00:07:58,240 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 5: I believe it or not. 157 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:03,239 Speaker 2: You know, so talk about being diagnosed really late in life, 158 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 2: you know, so I had that to contend with. I 159 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 2: never really felt like I belonged anywhere. I never felt 160 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 2: like I was like the other kids at all. There 161 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 2: was always something different and I didn't know what it was, 162 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 2: but my classmates definitely let me know constantly that there 163 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 2: was something different about me. I mean that they were 164 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 2: constantly asking why do you act the way you do? 165 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 2: You know, why do you act so weird or why 166 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 2: do you act so corny? And how on earth I 167 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 2: was supposed to answer those questions. I have no idea, 168 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 2: but that was something that I went through constantly. And 169 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 2: then in nineteen seventy one, you know, I started going 170 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 2: to It was previously in all white school. I mean 171 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 2: the year before it became integrated for the first time, 172 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 2: you know, the year before I started going there, and 173 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 2: there was a race riot on the first day of school. 174 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 1: Wow, I had heard this is a high school. 175 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 2: High school. 176 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 5: Okay. 177 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 2: By the time that I started going it was fully integrated, 178 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 2: and I was still having issues being able to, you know, 179 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 2: feel like I belonged, that I was a part totally. 180 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 5: Yeah. 181 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 2: And then in seventy two the whole family moved to Portland, Oregon. 182 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 2: I still ran into plenty of issues at the new school, 183 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 2: you know, coming from Mississippi. I mean obviously everything was 184 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 2: very rigid and very conservative. You know, there were strong 185 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 2: rigid gender roles. Boys did this, you know, girls did this. 186 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: And southern conservative culture. 187 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, yes. 188 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 4: What religion was your family in in Mississippi and didn't 189 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 4: continue into Oregon. 190 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 2: I guess maybe you could call it non denominational, but 191 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 2: it was a Protestant religion. But the church that we 192 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 2: were the most involved with was the Church of God 193 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 2: in Christ, which is probably like the largest African American 194 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 2: Protestant religion. It was also you know, more Pentecostal, you know, 195 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 2: where there was a lot of dancing in the spirit 196 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 2: and you know, speaking of tongues, and it was very emotional, 197 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 2: very demonstrative. 198 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: Were you very religious yourself at that age? 199 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,199 Speaker 2: I was, but you know, I just kind of felt 200 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 2: like that was something that was pretty much forced on me. 201 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 2: I figured, well, you know, this is at least one 202 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 2: way that I can kind of fit in, although I 203 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 2: still didn't completely. But something else that I want to 204 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 2: mention about high school is that moving to Portland, Oregon. 205 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, was a real culture shock. I 206 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 2: was attending John Adams High School. I remember there was 207 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 2: one thing that happened that, you know, just kind of 208 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 2: showed me a lot and clear that I was no 209 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 2: longer in Mississippi. On the first day of class for me, 210 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 2: I remember one one of the students wanted to introduce 211 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 2: me around and I saw him talking to somebody and 212 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 2: he said, oh, Phil, would you come here for a minute. 213 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 2: And so Phil came over and then the guy said, Gloria, 214 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 2: this is Phil, our teacher. And I was shocked. I thought, 215 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 2: you first name. I think that was a big deal. 216 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,079 Speaker 2: You know, in Mississippi, everybody was with mister and. 217 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 4: Missus, right, so you're in Oregon just like whoa culture 218 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 4: shock Everything Steffen Wow. 219 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 2: In high school, I became involved with Campus Crusade for Christ, 220 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 2: which was specifically for high schools and colleges. I thought 221 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 2: that that was one place where I could finally sort 222 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 2: of feel like like I belonged somewhere. I mean, maybe 223 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 2: I didn't completely because I was usually the only black 224 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 2: person at the meetings. 225 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: Right, you can you describe what it is. 226 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 2: It's like a program, right, is a campus ministry And 227 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 2: during the lunch hour or in the evenings at somebody's home, 228 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,559 Speaker 2: you know, they'll they'll have these sing alongs, and then 229 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 2: somebody who is on staff for Campus Crusade for Christ 230 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 2: will usually speak to the group and try to make 231 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 2: Jesus Christ seem really relevant to the young people just. 232 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 5: A fun dude, right right. 233 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 2: Sometimes we would, you know, sing songs there were to 234 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 2: the tune of popular songs or commercials or wow. 235 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 4: So this is just trying to get like kids interested. 236 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: And trying to make church fun. 237 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 5: Okay. 238 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, So then when you went to college, was it 239 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 4: the same group of people that you had known in 240 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 4: high school? 241 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 2: Some of the work. Yes, I also became involved with 242 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 2: Campus Crusade when I moved to Portland State University. So 243 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 2: it must have been like around seventy five, seventy six 244 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 2: something like that that I discovered this group that I 245 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 2: realized was a cult with that Portland State University. And 246 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 2: they had this table set up between you know, two 247 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 2: of the buildings they were, you know, signing people up 248 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 2: for Bible studies and whatnot. They looked interesting, and so 249 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 2: I went ahead and signed up, you know. And I 250 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 2: found out too that there was this apartment building in Beaverton, Oregon, 251 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 2: and the men lived in one apartment and the women 252 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 2: lived in another apartment. I remember hearing about that, and 253 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 2: I thought, wow, you know, maybe this will be finally 254 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 2: a chance where I can find people who who I 255 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 2: can relate to and you know, feel like I really belonged. 256 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 2: One thing that I didn't know at the time that 257 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 2: I had been realizing recently is that, first of all, 258 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 2: I had no idea that I had autism. I mean, 259 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 2: you know, because I was diagnosed so late. But what 260 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 2: I also didn't know is that these cult leaders will 261 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 2: typically prey upon people who seem very unsure of themselves, 262 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 2: you know, people who were easily intimidated, people who have 263 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 2: low self esteem or look as though they really don't belong. 264 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 3: Right or in a period in their life where they're vulnerable. 265 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yes, exactly. 266 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 4: What just happens to be a lot of byproducts of autism, right, yes, yes, exactly. 267 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 3: So, Gloria, can you actually describe to us, like now 268 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 3: that you understand autism more and now that you've been diagnosed, 269 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 3: like what are some of the science of autism or 270 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 3: how does it demonstrate itself? 271 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: Exactly? 272 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 2: I know that it's maybe different for everybody. They're the 273 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 2: saying that if you've met one person with autio, you've 274 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 2: met one person with autism, you know, because everybody different. Yeah, 275 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 2: But for me, one of the ways that it manifests 276 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 2: is that, you know, I process information differently from other people. 277 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 2: You know, jokes will frequently go over my head, or 278 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 2: I won't really know how to relate to everybody else. 279 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 2: I mean, I noticed that in grade school and in 280 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 2: high school, had gotten to the point where no matter 281 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 2: what I would say or do, everybody would just frantically 282 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 2: fall over laughing, you know, become because there is something 283 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 2: you know just different about you know. It was really 284 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 2: awful because you know, of course that caused people to 285 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 2: ask me, you know why do you act the way 286 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 2: you do? You know, and that's really one of the 287 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 2: ways that it manifests is just by not knowing how 288 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 2: to be. I've read in more than one place that 289 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 2: autistic children tend to act like little professors. Oh, because 290 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 2: the way that they talk usually sounds older than their years. 291 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: Like kind of formal and formal. 292 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 3: Interesting. All right, So I'm just gonna jump in here 293 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 3: with some information. According to a survey by the National 294 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 3: Autistic Society in the UK, half of all autistic adults 295 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 3: are abused by somebody they trust it as a friend, 296 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 3: which is insane. Tom Matters, the National Autistic Society campaign manager, 297 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 3: told The Guardian quote, people with autism can find it 298 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 3: difficult to interpret others' motivations, they misjudge relationships and left unsupported. 299 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 3: Many are taken advantage of. Tony Atwood, the psychologist known 300 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 3: for his work on Asper's Syndrome, spoke to cult expert 301 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 3: and friend of the podcast Steve Hassen and apparently told 302 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 3: him that people on the autism spectrum can be especially 303 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 3: susceptible to colts because they're really good targets for love bombing. 304 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 3: There are a variety of reasons why people on the 305 00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 3: spectrum are especially vulnerable. 306 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 2: A lot of my speech pattern pretty much from watching television. 307 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 2: I remember this was after I left the group that 308 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 2: I had kind of gotten into trouble because there was 309 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 2: this minister who I knew, and I remember for several 310 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,479 Speaker 2: nights in a row, I would just drop in on 311 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 2: him and his wife, you and their kids. I would 312 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 2: always do it during dinner time. Yeah, And eventually he 313 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,959 Speaker 2: just blew up at me, you know, which was it 314 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 2: was bad enough for anybody to do that, but for 315 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 2: a minister. Yeah, And he was telling me about how 316 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 2: inconvenient this was, you know, And it just showed me 317 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 2: how in the Christian community people don't really know how 318 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 2: to handle anger or what to do with their own anger. 319 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 2: The reason why I bring that up is because when 320 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 2: I was talking earlier about how I would watch television 321 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 2: to look or how you were supposed to act and 322 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 2: what you were supposed to do and given the situations, 323 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 2: and there were so many sitcoms where somebody would. 324 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: Just pop in true, yeah, yeah, not. 325 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 2: Only would they drop in, I mean they would knock 326 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,919 Speaker 2: or anything. They would just you open the door and 327 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 2: you're you know, and then the studio audience would applaud 328 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 2: and you know, yeah, and being that we didn't really 329 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 2: have any friends at home or very few, I didn't know, 330 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 2: you know, I thought that that's that's what brands do, 331 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 2: that they you know, just drop in anytime, you know. 332 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 4: So you're kind of searching for belonging and just feeling like, 333 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,159 Speaker 4: I don't know, I think everybody feels this way, and 334 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 4: maybe you in particular, like what do I do? What's 335 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 4: the like container, what are the rules kind of? And 336 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 4: so then at this college, you should we jump right 337 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 4: into meeting Don? 338 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 2: Is that? 339 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 5: How did this happen? 340 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 2: Well? Don was actually one of the people who was 341 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 2: at the table at Portland State University basically recruiting people 342 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 2: for this group. 343 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 1: What was your first impression of him? 344 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 2: He seemed nice, you know, really outgoing, and maybe that's 345 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 2: another sign of autism, is you know, just being very trusting, 346 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 2: you know, And even if there was something about him 347 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 2: that you know, maybe seemed off, which it didn't at 348 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 2: the time, But even if there had been, you know, 349 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 2: I'm sure I would have just ignored it because I 350 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 2: just wouldn't want to think about it, right. But I 351 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 2: remember a week or so later that some of the 352 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 2: staff people from campus Crusade for Christ at the college 353 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,719 Speaker 2: got in touch with me. I don't know if they 354 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 2: saw me talking to Don or what, but they somehow 355 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 2: got wind of the fact that I was planning on 356 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 2: joining this group, and I remember them cautioning me against it. 357 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: So what did they say? 358 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 2: For one thing, they said that he didn't seem to 359 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 2: be able to take criticism, and he was really blunt 360 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,919 Speaker 2: and insensitive, and a lot of the times his bluntness 361 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 2: really didn't land well, and especially with the female staff members. 362 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 2: Apparently more than once, you know, he made them cry. Wow, 363 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 2: the campus crusade staff members that said to really really 364 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 2: be careful. 365 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 3: So at this point he has a separate group going 366 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 3: on already arrived. 367 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, the group that he was recruiting for it was 368 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 2: a brand new group, gotcha, So it, you know, had 369 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 2: absolutely nothing to do with campus crusade. 370 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 5: God. 371 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, what goes through your head when you when they 372 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: warn you. 373 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,199 Speaker 2: I guess I thought I would just take what they 374 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,400 Speaker 2: had to say with a grain of salt. I think 375 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 2: I need to, you know, see for myself. 376 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would do the same thing. 377 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, how is this different than campus crusades. 378 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,719 Speaker 2: Well, it certainly didn't start out that different. I remember 379 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 2: we would do this survey. We would be standing on 380 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 2: the street corner or you know, standing on campus, and 381 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 2: when students would walk by, we would say, excuse me, 382 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 2: could I do a philosophy of life survey with you? 383 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,199 Speaker 2: You know? And if they agreed, and then we'd go 384 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 2: through all these questions, and I remember the last question 385 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 2: were something like, if you died today, would you go 386 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,439 Speaker 2: to Heaven? And then the last question was would you 387 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 2: like to know for sure? And that's when we would 388 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 2: take out the for Spiritual Laws booklet and basically what 389 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 2: it was was the plan of salvation, you know, so 390 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 2: if they went through all of these laws that we 391 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 2: showed them and then prayed the Sinner's prayer? 392 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 5: Did you ever get anybody to come join the group? 393 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:47,959 Speaker 2: Sometimes? 394 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,679 Speaker 3: Can you just kind of paint a picture for us 395 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 3: of like what is your everyday life like with them? 396 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,120 Speaker 3: So you're surveying people on the street and you ended 397 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 3: up living with them, right right? So the girls are 398 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 3: living in one place and Don is living somewhere else 399 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 3: with the boys, right right? 400 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: Tell us about that. 401 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 2: You know. We would basically do everything together. We would 402 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 2: all ride together start our day and it was like 403 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 2: everything we did had to be for evangelizing the world. Basically, 404 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 2: it was to bring the Gospel to every. 405 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: Nation, right, a lot of pressure every nation. 406 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, if we wanted to do something secular, something that 407 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 2: basically most students our age would do, like get involved 408 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 2: with extracurricular activities, for example, and if we brought it 409 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 2: to the staff members that we wanted to do such 410 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 2: and such, they wouldn't come right out and say no, 411 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 2: you can't do that, but instead they would use what 412 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 2: I thought was shame. Basically, instead of saying no, you 413 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 2: can't do that, they would say, well, now, Gloria, is 414 00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 2: that in line with your goals and objectives? And of 415 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 2: course the answer was no, then the question will be 416 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 2: then why do you want to do this? 417 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 3: I mean, that's a tool of control while still making 418 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 3: you feel like you're in control. 419 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 2: Gosh. I remember, when I hadn't lived there for very long, 420 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 2: something had happened where I had mentioned earlier about just 421 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 2: how difficult it was when people would laugh at me. 422 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 2: I remember experiencing being laughed at a lot, even in 423 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 2: this group when I hadn't lived there for very long. 424 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 2: We were making some dessert and I remember that it 425 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 2: had cut bananas on the top, and when I took 426 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 2: the dessert out of the fridge, I noticed that the 427 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 2: bananas had turned brown, you know. I mean at the time, 428 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 2: you know, I really had no idea how to keep 429 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 2: that from happening, but I just knew that I was 430 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 2: becoming really upset about it. And my roommates seemed to 431 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 2: think it was fun that I was getting so upset. 432 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,959 Speaker 2: They were just laughing at me because I was so 433 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 2: upset about these bananas turning brown, you know. And it 434 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 2: was like the more that they'd laugh, the more upset 435 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 2: I became. 436 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 3: No one wants to be laughed at when they're upset 437 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 3: or in general. 438 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 439 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 5: And were these roommates from the group right, right? 440 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: And how many people are in the group at that point, the. 441 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 2: People who were living in the apartment building, they were 442 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 2: pretty much considered part of the core group. I think 443 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 2: there were five women and five men. 444 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 1: I believe it was oh so pretty small. 445 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, but when we would evangelize and have people except Christ, 446 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 2: they would be part of our group in that they 447 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 2: would come to our Bible studies, but I mean they 448 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 2: wouldn't actually live with. 449 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 4: Us, right, Where were the Bible studies were those at 450 00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 4: a church or were those at like the house or 451 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 4: on campus? And what was his plan? Like, did he 452 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 4: want to grow it outside of campus? 453 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 2: Yeah? Eventually, I mean it did happen eventually, but it 454 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 2: was after I left. 455 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 4: So did he want everybody in the group to just 456 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 4: stick around even after they graduated and kind of grow 457 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 4: this thing? 458 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 2: I think he did. 459 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 6: Yeah. 460 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 2: Whenever we'd find people who really wanted to go deeper 461 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 2: with the group. These people were called our disciples, you know, which, 462 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 2: looking back, I think, Wow, that's kind of creepy. I 463 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 2: mean each of us had people or our disciples who 464 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 2: we were working more closely with. 465 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 1: To try to kind of pull them in more. 466 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 2: Right. We'd also go out and do evangelizing together. 467 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 4: Were your behaviors and thoughts getting more extreme before you left? 468 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 2: I kind of thought, so. Yeah, the church that everybody 469 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 2: was attending, and that was another thing, is that everybody 470 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 2: had to attend the same church, you know, I mean 471 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,199 Speaker 2: we did everything together. Yeah, But I remember when the 472 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 2: group first started, everybody was just really really enthusiastic about us. 473 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 2: You know, when we would take over the Sunday evening service, 474 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 2: for example, the church would just be packed. 475 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 1: You know, Oh, really interesting. 476 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, But then as it got toward the end, you know, 477 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 2: like two or three years in, not very many people 478 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 2: would show up whenever we would be in charge of 479 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 2: the Sunday service. Eventually other Christians didn't even like us 480 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 2: because we thought that we were the only ones who 481 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 2: were really evangelizing and sharing the gospel the way that 482 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 2: Jesus said. It was this big us against them type 483 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 2: of situation. 484 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 3: What was your relationship with Don, Like, like, how did 485 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 3: you feel about him? 486 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 2: Well? 487 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 3: Is he the one who's sort of like dictating how 488 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 3: everyone is spending their time and what they're doing. 489 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 2: I mean, he was totally in charge. One of the 490 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 2: interesting things about Portland, Oregon is that it's very very white, right, 491 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,239 Speaker 2: actually the Pacific north West is very white period. But 492 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 2: you know, I've mentioned that to just say that I 493 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 2: was the only black person in the group, which was 494 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 2: really common for Portland, Oregon, just to be the only 495 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,360 Speaker 2: black person on the job, and you know, at various events. 496 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 2: So not only was I the only black person in 497 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 2: the group, but I was the first black person that 498 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 2: most of the people in the group had even known. 499 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 2: That crazy, Yeah, it really was, it really was, I 500 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 2: mean it, you know, it just puts so much pressure 501 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 2: on me. It was like it was my job to 502 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,959 Speaker 2: be basically the ambassador of all the black people in 503 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 2: the world. You know, Yes, yes, it was like, okay, 504 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 2: once again, I don't fit in wow, you know. And 505 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 2: I always felt like I was the other yeah, you know, 506 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 2: and that I was totally different from everybody else. You know. 507 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 2: It's like they just never let me forget that. 508 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: How did they treat you? 509 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 2: Sometimes they treated me okay, but there was definitely a 510 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 2: double standard. Like I remember, you know, a white person 511 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 2: would say something or tell a particular joke or whatever, 512 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 2: and if I were to do the same thing, you know, 513 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 2: I have people look at me like they really disapproved, 514 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 2: you know, because I was black and the only black 515 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 2: person in the group. It was like, no matter what 516 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 2: I did, it just stood out. And yes, there were 517 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 2: plenty of times where I would receive this big lecture 518 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 2: and the baff woman would say to me something like 519 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 2: we have to really be careful and really mindful of 520 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 2: how we come across to other people. 521 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: Oh god, we. 522 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 2: Think, yeah, that's actually something else that's a sign of 523 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 2: autism is that autistic people tend to be well. I 524 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 2: certainly tended to be bullied a lot, and one of 525 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 2: the forms of bullying basically involved being lectured by teachers 526 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 2: or or by managers at work basically like, I'm a child, right, 527 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 2: and autistic people tend to come across as childlike. That's 528 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 2: something else that I've noticed even today is that even 529 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 2: though I'm at least like twenty years older than most 530 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 2: of my peers, people will still sometimes feel the need 531 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 2: to tell me what to do or basically to be 532 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 2: parental with me, which is really insulting. 533 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. 534 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 5: Yeah. 535 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 2: On occasion, there would be other black people who would 536 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 2: maybe come to our meetings, like are what we call 537 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 2: sing and share. This was I think every Wednesday at 538 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 2: noon or something like that on campus. There was this 539 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 2: man who he and I would lead the singing. You know, 540 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 2: we'd play the guitar together and we'd figure out what 541 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 2: songs we wanted to do. Now, that was an interesting 542 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 2: situation too, because he was somebody who I did really 543 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 2: connect with. But the people in the group, especially the 544 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 2: staff members, were not happy about that at all because 545 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 2: they didn't believe in interracial relationships. No, I wish this 546 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 2: weren't true. I wish I were kidding. Wow, oh man, Yeah, 547 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 2: and they could tell that he and I really were 548 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 2: into each other, you know. 549 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: So did they have a talk with you about it? Like, 550 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: what did they do? 551 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean they would just you know, tell me 552 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 2: that I really needed to watch how I was being 553 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 2: with I don't want to use his real name, I'll 554 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 2: just say Bob. 555 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: Okay. 556 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 2: So something really embarrassing that would happen occasionally at these 557 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 2: sing and Share meetings is I remember there was this 558 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 2: one time when a black man came to the meeting, 559 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 2: and as soon as he walked in, everybody started looking 560 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 2: for me. You know. It was like, you know, I 561 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 2: finally have somebody I could date. 562 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 5: Oh no, wow, yeah wow. 563 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 2: And so you know, they introduced us right away, you know. 564 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 2: And I mean it was like the only thing we 565 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 2: had in common that I knew of that we were 566 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 2: both Christians, that we were both black. Yeah, but it 567 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 2: was really really embarrassing. Yeah. Of course, needless to say, 568 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 2: he never came back because I mean, here he was 569 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 2: looking for some fellowship with other believers, you know, but 570 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 2: you know, instead he got this dating service. Oh my god. 571 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 2: Something else that would happen regarding dating and relationships and 572 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 2: stuff occasionally, the staff woman of the group she would 573 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 2: she would get all the women together and she would 574 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 2: kind of tease us, you know, one by one. She 575 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 2: would say, I see you with, you know, Jim for example. 576 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 2: She would tell all of my roommates and I you know, 577 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 2: who she saw us with. But the thing that was 578 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 2: really awkward and weird but that she was only telling 579 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 2: the white women. Yeah. Yeah, And then when the game 580 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 2: was over, there was like this elephant in the living room. 581 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 2: I'm sure that she was just hoping that I wouldn't ask, 582 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 2: you know, well who do you see me with? Yeah, 583 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 2: but of course I did have to ask, because you know, 584 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 2: she told everybody else, you know, and so finally I 585 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 2: would ask, well, so who do you see me with? 586 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 2: And then there would be this really awkward silence and 587 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 2: then she would say, you know, we really need to 588 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 2: keep praying that God will bring some black men to 589 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 2: stop it. Oh my god, I wish I was kidding. 590 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 4: The fact that this is in the seventies is so terrified. 591 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 2: It wasn't that long ago. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean 592 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 2: I just once again just felt totally left out, just 593 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 2: like I really really didn't belong. Yeah. 594 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I hate all of that. 595 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, So you you feel out of place in this group, 596 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 3: which you kind of had gone to to find a 597 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 3: place where you belong, right right. 598 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 4: So were you just kind of getting like disillusioned with it? 599 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 4: Slowly as all of these little things start happening. 600 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 2: I had something specific happens, something that you know, you 601 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 2: wouldn't think would be a factor at all. But what 602 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 2: specifically happened was, after almost three years, there was a 603 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 2: new person who moved into our apartment, a new woman 604 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 2: who had moved in, and so we were kind of 605 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 2: juggling who was going to be in which bedroom, and 606 00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 2: finally it ended up that I had my own bedroom 607 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 2: for the first time in my life. Ah. So when 608 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 2: people ask, you know, well, what caused me to finally 609 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 2: leave the group, and I just tell them I got 610 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,320 Speaker 2: my own bedroom for the first time in my life, 611 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 2: And that sounds so weird, but that's exactly what happened. 612 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 3: It actually doesn't sound weird to me at all. It 613 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 3: makes perfect sense. I feel like the stories we hear 614 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 3: a lot about the moment where somebody realized that they 615 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 3: needed to leave are I went away by myself and 616 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 3: like was able to reconnect with myself, you know, or 617 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 3: like I got a little bit of space away. So 618 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 3: I realized, I'm not happy. This situation is not making 619 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 3: me happy. When you're constantly with people all the time, 620 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 3: you know, you're like stuck in the world. So that 621 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 3: actually makes perfect sense to me. 622 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, that's interesting. 623 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 2: One thing that I didn't mention is that I'm the 624 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 2: second oldest of eight kids, and so they were always, always, 625 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 2: but plenty of people around. And I mean I remember 626 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,240 Speaker 2: for a while there that I actually not only shared 627 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 2: a bedroom, but I shared a bed with two of 628 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 2: my sisters, you know, so it was like there were 629 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 2: always these people around. But when I finally got my 630 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 2: own bedroom, then it was like I could finally think. 631 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. 632 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 2: So, when I finally got my own bedroom and had 633 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 2: my own space and had the time to myself, I 634 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 2: realized that so many of the beliefs I had that 635 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 2: I said I was willing to die for I didn't 636 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:36,240 Speaker 2: believe them for a minute. 637 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 6: Oh wow, yeah, And I thought, well, if that's the case, 638 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 6: I can't remain in this group, you know, if I 639 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,240 Speaker 6: don't agree with these major tenants. 640 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 3: You know, did you say you were willing to die 641 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 3: for them? Was that a part of it? 642 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 2: Yeah? 643 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 5: Oh wow? 644 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, how did they take the news that you were 645 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 4: leaving amazingly enough. 646 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 2: Well down seemed to take it really well, which really 647 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,399 Speaker 2: surprised me, whereas the staff woman didn't take it well 648 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,279 Speaker 2: at all. I remembered her asking, well, how do you 649 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 2: know you're making the right decision? You know? And I 650 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,919 Speaker 2: had to tell her, I really can't tell you how 651 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,399 Speaker 2: I know, but I just know that this is what 652 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 2: I need to do. Oh. Something else that helped me 653 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 2: to come to that decision too, I mean, getting my 654 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 2: own bedroom was really the main catalyst. But something else 655 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 2: that really helped me was I started seeing a therapist 656 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 2: for the first time in my life. 657 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: Ah. 658 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 2: I thought that some of his ideas were very progressive. 659 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 2: He gave me this book. The name of the book 660 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 2: is Your Perfect Right. It's a book about assertiveness, being assertive. 661 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,880 Speaker 2: That was something that I had never heard of before. 662 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 2: I was so used to having other people not only 663 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,880 Speaker 2: tell me what to do, but bully me, and it 664 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 2: just had never occurred to me that it was was 665 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 2: okay to stand up to people and said boundaries and 666 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,359 Speaker 2: say that this is what I will and will not. 667 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 5: Accepted by this back. Yeah, sounds great, it really so 668 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 5: this was just like a whole new way of thinking 669 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 5: for you. 670 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow. The way that I met the people who 671 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,920 Speaker 2: I ended up living with was I went to this conference. 672 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 2: It was the Christian Music Festival of the Rockies or 673 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 2: something like that than Denver, Colorado. Basically it was, you know, 674 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:34,360 Speaker 2: a music contest. 675 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: Oh fine, yeah. 676 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,239 Speaker 2: You know, I didn't necessarily get very far, but a 677 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 2: little bit of trivia. Kathy Lee Gifford was one of 678 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:49,400 Speaker 2: my judges that a little bit of trivia. When I 679 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,320 Speaker 2: was at this conference, you know, I met these people 680 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 2: who just so happened that they lived in Tacoma, and 681 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 2: you know, and I told them that I was interested 682 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 2: in moving to Tacoma, and I told them why, and 683 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 2: so they offered to let me live with them for 684 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 2: a while. So it was like everything just came together. 685 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 3: I'm so happy that the people that you met after 686 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 3: that were good people, because I feel like you're doubly 687 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 3: vulnerable at that. 688 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 2: Point, right, yes, exactly. 689 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: Like leaving this thing and trying to figure out where 690 00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: to go again. And yeah, that's so great. 691 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, So then where did you land with your faith? 692 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 2: After I lived in Tacoma for a few months, and 693 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,400 Speaker 2: then I eventually moved back to Portland. I mean, I 694 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:35,319 Speaker 2: would still go to church occasionally during that time, but 695 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 2: I also wanted to experience the various things that I 696 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:44,280 Speaker 2: was always told I wasn't supposed to do right and alcohol. 697 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 2: I heard about this college that was It was a 698 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 2: college where they took your life experiences into consideration. What 699 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,880 Speaker 2: really really worked for me was that instead of taking tests, 700 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 2: which I realized that I'm not good at at all 701 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:06,399 Speaker 2: and that tests really don't show what you know. I mean, they, 702 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,840 Speaker 2: you know, show how well you can take tests. 703 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:10,360 Speaker 1: If you're going to memorize it. 704 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, yes exactly. But instead of taking tests, we 705 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 2: would write essays, and boy in my grade just shot up. 706 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 2: I certainly became sexual and realized that I was bisexual, 707 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 2: you know, I mean, I just realized all these things 708 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 2: about myself. But I didn't become an atheist until like 709 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:38,400 Speaker 2: maybe thirty years later. 710 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 4: Oh wow, give somebody their own bedroom, and yeah. 711 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 3: What would you say you learned from the experience? And 712 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 3: you know, what would you say to someone else who 713 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:54,800 Speaker 3: maybe is autistic and struggling to find where they belong? 714 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 1: Do you have any advice? 715 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,720 Speaker 2: I could give advice, but I know that their situations 716 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,839 Speaker 2: be way different. From what I experienced, right, A good 717 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 2: therapist is a big help, yeah, helping you to be 718 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 2: able to set boundaries and to be able to develop 719 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,279 Speaker 2: self respect, you know, on high self esteem, right, which 720 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 2: is something that's really difficult to do if everybody around 721 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 2: you is, you know, thinking badly of you, and you know, 722 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 2: of course don't have much going for you, you. 723 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,440 Speaker 3: Know, right, and just straight up being racist and telling 724 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:29,040 Speaker 3: you not to. 725 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:29,760 Speaker 1: Date white people. 726 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:30,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. 727 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, going to shout out friend of the show and 728 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,799 Speaker 3: one of our previous guests called experts Steve Hassen one 729 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 3: more time here. So he gave a presentation on autism 730 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,440 Speaker 3: and cults to the Asperger Autism Network and he listed 731 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 3: some bullet points, So I'm going to list them here 732 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,719 Speaker 3: for you guys. How to protect yourself if you are 733 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,440 Speaker 3: on the autism spectrum, he says, learn more about undue influence, 734 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,080 Speaker 3: look at behaviors and not just words. Don't disclose personal 735 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,520 Speaker 3: information to new acquaintances. Be wary of anyone putting a 736 00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,120 Speaker 3: lot of pressure on you to join anything quickly. If 737 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 3: it's a legitimate group, they will stand up to scrutiny. 738 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:06,080 Speaker 3: Do your research on leaders, the history, the criticisms, etc. 739 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 3: And that includes looking into who owns any website or 740 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,279 Speaker 3: article you might look at. Use keywords in Google like 741 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 3: scam or brainwashing when you're searching to do your research, 742 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 3: and always take into account who's saying it. Just judge 743 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,360 Speaker 3: the merits of the group, not the attractiveness of the recruiter. 744 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 3: And if you're not sure, ask questions. And if you 745 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 3: have a loved one who has Aspergers or autism, here 746 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,560 Speaker 3: are simple points for you. Maintain good communication with them. 747 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 3: It's important to have a relationship with them. Help your 748 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,920 Speaker 3: loved one research new people or groups, maybe even go 749 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,400 Speaker 3: to a group's meeting with them. Teach healthy boundaries and 750 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 3: assertiveness as Gloria learned here, and avoid giving them ultimatums 751 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 3: or threats because it doesn't help. And make sure that 752 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 3: you get professional help early on. 753 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 1: So tell us about your life now. 754 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,640 Speaker 3: So you are your polyamorous sex educator. 755 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:54,160 Speaker 1: Is that right? 756 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:55,479 Speaker 5: Yes, that's great. 757 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:56,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, tell us about it. 758 00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:01,280 Speaker 2: I've been on various panels and you know, I've presentations 759 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:05,320 Speaker 2: and in twenty seventeen was when I first started teaching 760 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,920 Speaker 2: this workshop that I had created and developed called Transcending Shame, 761 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,640 Speaker 2: you know, and I just thought that this class is 762 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:18,239 Speaker 2: so appropriate for me, because there was shame pretty much 763 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,840 Speaker 2: everywhere I turned around, and there were a lot of 764 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,040 Speaker 2: things that I was ashamed of that really were not 765 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,759 Speaker 2: my fault, you know, like my skin color, for example, 766 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,759 Speaker 2: or being a woman. You know. So I've taught this 767 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:36,240 Speaker 2: workshop at you know, various conferences. In January, I taught 768 00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:39,839 Speaker 2: this workshop that I had just developed. You know. It 769 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 2: was called we do not live Single issue lives, and 770 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,400 Speaker 2: it comes from the Audrey Lord quote there is no 771 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:50,080 Speaker 2: such thing as a single issue struggles because we do 772 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:51,560 Speaker 2: not live single issue lives. 773 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:51,920 Speaker 5: Right. 774 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:52,600 Speaker 1: I love that. 775 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:54,880 Speaker 2: But I look at all of the for lack of 776 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,920 Speaker 2: a better word, for all the crap that I went through, 777 00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:00,960 Speaker 2: you know, all the abuse to get to where I 778 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,760 Speaker 2: am today. I don't want to say that I wouldn't 779 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,640 Speaker 2: change a thing, because I would change a lot of things, right, 780 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,600 Speaker 2: you know, right. But at the same time, I would 781 00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,480 Speaker 2: say that if I had never gone through these things, 782 00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:15,920 Speaker 2: you know, I couldn't have done these workshops. 783 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,640 Speaker 3: And you know major who you are, Yeah, yes, well 784 00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:21,360 Speaker 3: I think that that is amazing. 785 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:23,720 Speaker 5: Can people follow you on social media? 786 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:29,640 Speaker 2: See on Facebook and Instagram. My username is Gloria Jackson 787 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,720 Speaker 2: Nefer tidy, but there's no dash. Also, you can follow 788 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:37,360 Speaker 2: me on Twitter at Gloria j Inn. My website is 789 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 2: called not Gloria Jean, so it's not Gloria Jean dot net. 790 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,480 Speaker 5: Thank you so much for talking to us. 791 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:45,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you. 792 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,480 Speaker 2: You're welcome. You're welcome. I really enjoyed this. 793 00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,320 Speaker 1: All right, well, Megan, time for the question. 794 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:54,040 Speaker 5: Okay, I'm ready. 795 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,279 Speaker 1: We don't know specifically what this group is called. 796 00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:01,000 Speaker 3: But so let's say you're in college and you pass 797 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,040 Speaker 3: by a Oh my god, what is it called? You 798 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,800 Speaker 3: passed by a table of Christians? 799 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:07,600 Speaker 2: Wow? 800 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:11,520 Speaker 5: You couldn't remember the name for table of Christians? Are 801 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:13,920 Speaker 5: you hilario or something? 802 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,719 Speaker 1: How you say, uh. 803 00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:18,960 Speaker 5: Table of Christians? 804 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,279 Speaker 1: No, table wasn't the word that I wanted. I don't 805 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:23,560 Speaker 1: know why. 806 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:25,680 Speaker 3: The only one coming to my head is brochure. It's 807 00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:28,400 Speaker 3: not a brochure. What the fuck is it? 808 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:35,279 Speaker 1: It's a people with brochures on it. Okay, okay, okay, 809 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:36,799 Speaker 1: of Christians? 810 00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:42,080 Speaker 3: Tableful really nice people who seem to have a community going. 811 00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,040 Speaker 3: And maybe you don't have a lot of friends and 812 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,400 Speaker 3: don't feel like you belong and they're so welcoming and 813 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:47,080 Speaker 3: warm to you. 814 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,040 Speaker 1: What do you think would you get sucked in? Potentially? 815 00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,640 Speaker 4: Potentially, there is definitely room for me to get sucked in. 816 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:54,080 Speaker 5: Yep. 817 00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:56,279 Speaker 3: I feel like there's such a clear pattern for us. 818 00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:00,200 Speaker 3: Like the overtly Christian groups probably we wouldn't join, but 819 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,360 Speaker 3: the spiritual groups you probably would join, and the like 820 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,440 Speaker 3: self help or like ambition groups I probably would join. 821 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,200 Speaker 3: But the principals are there, you know. 822 00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:15,799 Speaker 4: I mean the community thing is clutch because I was such. 823 00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:21,040 Speaker 4: I was super lonely my first two years in college, 824 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:23,880 Speaker 4: so yeah, that would have been irresistible. 825 00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:26,600 Speaker 3: I didn't go to proper college. I went to one 826 00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:28,840 Speaker 3: semester at a community college, and then I was like, 827 00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:29,520 Speaker 3: I'm doing music. 828 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:31,200 Speaker 1: I'm not going to do this. A lot of good 829 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,160 Speaker 1: that did me, But in that period of. 830 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:38,240 Speaker 3: Life, I think I wanted community so badly. But you know, honestly, 831 00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,800 Speaker 3: I was so obsessed with skater boys when I was 832 00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:44,720 Speaker 3: seventeen and living in Glendale by myself that I think 833 00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:46,800 Speaker 3: the thing that would have appealed to me most is 834 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,879 Speaker 3: if like a table as skater boys were waiting for 835 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,960 Speaker 3: me somewhere and invited me into their skater boy community 836 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:54,040 Speaker 3: because that shit. 837 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 1: Wo, that was my shit. 838 00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:57,239 Speaker 5: We would have lost one, not. 839 00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:59,880 Speaker 3: The Christian version, but the skater boy version. I'm in seventeen. 840 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,719 Speaker 4: Anything that Avard community would be very tempting for me 841 00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:04,480 Speaker 4: in college. 842 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, hondo, hondo percent. What else we got? I think? 843 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,320 Speaker 4: No, I think that's it. But I'm so glad everybody 844 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,800 Speaker 4: listen to this episode. We hope to see you again 845 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,640 Speaker 4: next week, and remember follow your gut, watch out for 846 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:25,719 Speaker 4: red flags, and never ever stress number skater. 847 00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,000 Speaker 7: Huddle up, it's me, Angelies. You can't beat the post 848 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,680 Speaker 7: game burger fries, right, No, what else? You can't be 849 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,640 Speaker 7: the angelry special. Let's break it down my favorite barbecue sauce, 850 00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:56,000 Speaker 7: American cheese, Krispy bacon, pickles, ions, and a sesame seed 851 00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,879 Speaker 7: bun of course, and don't forget the fries and a drink. 852 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,000 Speaker 5: It's gonna be a high seat me sounder. 853 00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:03,920 Speaker 7: All you have to do together is beat me at 854 00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,120 Speaker 7: a one on one. I'm just laying get the agent 855 00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:08,399 Speaker 7: respectuo on McDonald's now. 856 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:09,719 Speaker 2: Buttah bah bah bah. 857 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:11,440 Speaker 1: I'm participating in restaurants for a limited time.