WEBVTT - From the Vault: Black Stone of Mecca 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:07.440 Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 0:00:07.520 --> 0:00:10.360 name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And it's Saturday. 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:12.039 Time to go into the vault for a good old 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:14.720 archival episode of Stuff to Blow Your Mind. This one 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:17.560 about the black Stone of Mecca. Yeah, this was a 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:20.640 really fun episode because it allowed us to discuss uh 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:25.000 Islam and Islamic culture, but also meteorites, yeah, impact heights. 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:30.720 This one originally published February. We're gonna just launch right 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:37.159 into it now, go on the journey with us. Welcome 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:39.840 to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff Works 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:48.400 dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:51.240 My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. Today 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:53.240 we're gonna be talking a little bit about religion, a 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:57.200 little bit about geology, a little bit about about space 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:01.040 and science. But I wanted to start off thinking about 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:05.000 the idea of sacred places. For some reason, they're there 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:08.640 are always central places that people want to go to 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:13.440 and experience personally and stand in. All I think about 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:16.960 the in the secular version, they're like, you know, museums 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:19.320 and stuff like this. Oh yeah, when I went to 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:23.160 the American Museum of Natural History in New York. I 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:26.520 remember feeling a kind of church like sensation, even though 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:29.000 those bonkers of people running all over and making all 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:32.200 kinds of noise. Uh, I had this sense of like 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:35.560 I'm in a special place. Oh yeah, this is a 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:38.360 different place. Yes, well, I think I think museums are 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:39.880 a great example because I feel the same way about 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:44.200 the MET And absolutely yeah, like it's it's so fils 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:47.880 like just you just as a place. It's very much 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:51.680 the place of pilgrimage for individuals are interested in history 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.360 and art and religion. And and then you go in 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:57.400 and you have all of these pieces that themselves are 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:00.440 from all of these distant sacred places and sacred times. 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:02.480 Oh totally yeah, it's great. Like you get to go 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:06.800 to the it's almost like the catch net for for 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:10.520 sacred places throughout history. But when you go to a 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:13.040 sacred place like this the you know, these places that 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:17.520 have a history, I almost feel like you are you're 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:20.280 playing on the same kind of awe that you might 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:24.440 experience if you went to and believed in a haunted 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:28.760 house that like that that some somehow a kind of 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:33.520 energy has collected there over time and it it gives 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:37.160 you this sense of the sense of being part of history. 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:39.840 To be there. Yeah, I mean we we sort of 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:43.799 map out our worlds with these with these pin points, uh, 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:46.840 that that all the energy seems to converge around. Uh. 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:50.440 And then when we visit those places, we're we're taking 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:53.160 part in that energy. We have all these expectations, and 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:56.760 then we're engaging in sort of the collective expectations of 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.440 that place. Now, this is certainly something we've covered on 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:01.320 Stuff to Blow of Mind in the past, that being 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:06.280 a Stendahl syndrome or Jerusalem syndrome, the idea where when 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:09.240 someone finally visits one of these places that means a 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:13.480 lot to them personally. Be it Jerusalem, uh, be it, 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:16.440 in the case of today's episode, Mecca, or be it 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:19.000 just a museum or to stand before a particular piece 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:22.200 of art that that carries a lot of weight with you. 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:24.880 You enter into it with all these expectations. Then you're 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:27.959 finally there, and it can be overwhelming. It can be 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:33.720 mentally overwhelming and physically overwhelming to actually be there at 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:37.480 at this lynch pin of your life. Yeah, despite having 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:40.000 lived in the world your whole life, suddenly you feel 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:43.400 that you have connected with with again the sense of history, 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:45.800 like here's a place that that will continue to be 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:49.320 visited and written about and now I'm here. Yeah. And 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:52.680 it could be an historical cathedral, it could be Stonehenge, 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:56.000 it could be a restaurant that was used as a 0:03:56.040 --> 0:04:00.120 filming location from movie you like, but whatever it is, like, 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:02.840 this is a place that that has value that seems 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:06.240 to extend beyond your life. Now, of course we've been 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:09.320 talking about you know, our our favorite secular examples, museums 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:13.520 or whatever. But I'd say you probably have to amplify 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:17.480 this feeling of importance connected to place, even more so 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:20.560 for religious believers and the sites that are sacred to 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:23.919 their personal religious beliefs. And of course one of the 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:27.599 sites that is sacred to millions of people around the 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:31.839 world will be found in Mecca in Saudi Arabia. That's right. 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.320 As far as sacred places go, and the and the 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:37.400 collective capital of belief that goes into attributing them as such, 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:40.719 the Haram Mosque or the Grand Mosque in Mecca is 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:44.160 easily one of the most sacred places on earth. Uh 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:47.200 is one of the five pillars of Islam. Every able 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:50.240 bodied Muslim has to embark on a pilgrimage to Mecca, 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:52.760 and this is known as the Hodge. On the way, 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:56.400 you conduct a series of rituals, including the stoning of 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:59.960 the devil in Mina, and finally you conduct seven revolution 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:04.359 san's within the Haram Mosque circling the Holy Kabba building, 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:08.840 which is this essentially, this this dark cube. It's featured 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:11.279 in the art for this episode, and I'm sure everyone 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:13.240 out there seeing the images of it. Of course, if 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:14.800 you haven't, you should go look it up because you 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:17.520 should have this in mind, this this dark stone building 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:21.520 with with the tapestries draped on it versus from the Koran. 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:26.600 And then at one corner of the building something very special. Yeah, 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:31.040 the eastern exterior corner includes something that is known as 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:35.600 the black Stone or the al Hajar alha squad. Uh. 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:38.160 This uh, this, it's this is going to be the 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:40.680 object that we're talking about here. As you pass it, 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:43.880 you touch, you touch it, if you can, you kiss 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:45.920 it if you can. If you can't reach it, you 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:49.440 you point at it. But to touch the stone, it 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:52.159 is said, is to enter into a contract with God. 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:55.200 And I've seen translations that indicate that the black Stone 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:58.960 itself is the right hand of God on Earth. Now, 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:01.719 later in this episode, we're going to be exploring what 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:05.159 the black Stone might be from a geological standpoint, what 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:09.919 it's it's history and significance is within the religion. But 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:12.120 I guess first maybe we should just take a look 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:15.080 at the site itself at large, the Kabba. Yeah, the 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:18.200 Coba itself is a very holy place in Islamic tradition, 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:21.159 and it's it's uh. We're gonna in all of this, 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:23.920 as we do with any religion, We're gonna we discuss, 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:26.640 you know, we're gonna sort of divide between the mythic history, 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:29.440 the religious ideas of what this is and where it 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:31.719 came from, as well as what we actually know from history. 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:37.279 But according to uh, to tradition, the Kaaba was constructed 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:39.839 by Abraham, and its four corners a line with the 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:43.160 four compass points. It's made of great blocks of granite. 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:48.440 But the the holy black stone itself burns with an 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:53.240 even greater mysticism. So this black stone here, that's uh, 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:56.760 that's that's set in this in cement and surrounded by 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:59.599 silver here and again the eastern corner of the Cabba stone. 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:01.880 It's not a single stone or at least, it's not 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:05.520 actually a single stone anymore. Rather, it consists of eight 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:09.600 pieces of various size, seemingly the same rock, seemingly the 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:13.680 same origin, and they're submitted together surrounded by a silver frame. 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.440 And the largest fragment is said to be about the 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:19.760 size of a date. So that's not very big, right, Yeah, 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:21.920 it's these things go. So sometimes you just hear about 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:24.320 the black stone eager to match something larger. I must 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:28.840 say that I always thought before reading about this for 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:31.679 for the episode today, that it was a single stone, 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:34.040 and I thought it was sort of like one very 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:37.840 large jet black stone. And the reason for that is 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:40.880 that there are not very good pictures of it out there, 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:44.400 that's right. Uh, So you know, generally this is not 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:48.040 something that people photograph very much. The photographs of it 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:50.920 that do exist or kind of sometimes grainy or low 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:54.760 quality or from a distance. Uh, there's just not ideal 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:59.840 documentation conditions. But which is crazy, considering this is probably 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.880 of the most viewed objects on the planet. Yeah, it's amazing. 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:06.720 It's it's something that you know, millions and millions of 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:10.480 people have personally laid eyes on. But but it's very 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:13.680 hard to find a good picture of it. Um. But yeah, 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:16.360 so what you see in most of these pictures is 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:20.080 there is this silver It almost looks like a like 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:23.520 a like a basin turned sideways or something. It's this 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:27.360 silver collar that's built into the corner of the building. 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:31.000 And then inside this silver bowl there is just this 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:34.920 dark abyss. Generally is all you can see from the outside. 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:37.840 So if I had to guess before I started reading 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:40.800 the research on it what this was, I would think 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:43.840 it was like a large piece of obsidian or something 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:48.480 like that, just a large flat black surface that is 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:52.480 is smooth and dark and people uh, and you know, 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:55.040 people pass by and and touch it and kiss it. 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:57.600 But no, it turns out that there's actually a good 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:01.080 bit more texture going on inside, which makes identifying the 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:05.880 geology of the of the black stone all the more interesting. Yeah. 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:08.040 So the pieces that are set in the cement, they've 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:10.520 been touched so many times they have there's a smoothness 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:14.280 to them. Um, and uh, it's all the worth worth noting, 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:16.720 like these are pieces of something that was once whole. 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:20.640 And we'll get into that in a bit. Various authors 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:22.960 have commented on it and tried to you know, they're 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:26.120 they're varying figures that have come out over the years, 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:29.320 over the centuries, really Westerners getting a glimpse of it, 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:31.760 looking at it, trying to figure out how how big 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:33.640 it is the pieces are now and how big it 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:36.800 might have been when it was a one piece. Um. 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:40.560 There is a paper by Elizabeth Thompson which we're gonna 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:42.800 refer to several times here. She was from the University 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:46.400 of Copenhagen. She wrote a paper in in Meteoritics in 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.280 nineteen eighty titled New Light on the Origin of the 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:53.280 Holy Black Stone of the Kabba, and she did some 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:56.920 some figuring here, and she says that the the possible 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:00.439 original size of the stone would have been by twenty 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:04.480 or nine eight inches by seven point eight by seven 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:08.080 point eight, which would have made it what possibly about 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:11.000 the size of a cantaloupe originally basically cannel And I 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:15.400 rough estimate estimate here. I've never measured a cantaloupe. Robert Well, 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:17.480 I I did some I was at home when I 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:19.120 was doing this portion of the notes, and I was like, 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:21.160 all right, well, how big is that? Let me think 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:24.000 is that what fruit does that align with? And the 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:28.480 best I can tell, possibly candaloupe? Uh fruit or um 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:33.080 Islamic history esque experts may have may differ on that. Now, 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:35.800 as for the color, this is another interesting thing because 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.200 again you look at it, you just see darkness surrounded 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:42.800 called the black stone. So what color is it? That 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:45.440 is actually kind of difficult to decide on as well, 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:48.720 because various accounts have described it as brownish black or 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:52.920 blackish brown, or reddish black or deep reddish brown, and 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:56.800 some accounts also speak to a coal like matrix to it. 0:10:56.960 --> 0:10:59.000 I think I've read that that was only one account 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:02.319 that actually said at least one account yeah, then said 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:06.520 coal like matrix, But most accounts point out that they're 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:13.319 yellow spots pointed white crystals. There's also a possible interior 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:16.080 that is described as gray, so it's not just this 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:20.439 obsidian or charcoal like stone, but rather something that has 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:23.280 you know, flex of other color in them. Right there 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:25.560 there are these little pieces of yellow or white. And 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:29.559 then there are also some reports that inside the stone 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:32.600 it is white, or that like covered parts of the 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:36.079 stone that are not exposed in the in the cemented, 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:40.320 cemented paved surface are white. Another claim we should probably 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:43.760 deal with because it does figure big into scientists trying 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:47.520 to figure out what type of rock or mineral this is, 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:51.680 is that it allegedly, according to very old reports, floats 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:54.840 in water. Yes, this is this is something that comes 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:57.839 up with time or two in the actual in the 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:02.560 historical record of the stone where supposedly this was used 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:05.240 to authenticated after it has been stolen in return. And 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:06.920 we'll get into that story in a bit that was 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:10.240 in like the tenth century. Yes, yeah, So the idea 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:12.240 that they could tell it's the stone by placing it 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:15.240 in water and seeing it would float, well, not many 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:19.000 stones float, so that would be a unique identifier. But 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:21.679 I guess that that does just depend on taking that 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:24.760 story as accurate, right, And that's one of the that's 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:30.040 one of the problems, the challenges, the tantalizing aspects of 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:35.640 this whole exercise and discussing what this stone actually consists 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:39.760 of from a scientific standpoint, because you're you're left to 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:44.480 draw on all these varying accounts and very limited uh 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:49.319 you know, observational data about the stone. Yeah, I mean 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:51.440 one of the features of the stone. So one of 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:53.280 the things about observing the stone that you have to 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:57.680 understand is that it is sort of the mechanics of 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:03.959 how the ritual the Kaba works. People are constantly circling 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:06.000 this and there. You know, there might be thousands of 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:09.160 people in there, all trying to get up to the 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:11.240 stone to kiss it, or to point at it, or 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:15.080 to touch it. And so you are not in a 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:18.640 situation where you can sit there and look at it 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:22.760 and take notes. Right. This is not a museum, right. Uh. No, 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:26.320 it might be more like in the louver where you 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:28.240 try to get a good look at the Mona Lisa, 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:31.360 but there's just people cramming in from all sides and 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:34.960 pushing you. I mean, I've read reports about people trying 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:36.720 to get a good look at the stone and and 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:40.559 they're they're always reports mentioning just the crowd pushing you along, 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:43.120 not being able to get up close to it. Or 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:46.360 they're also guards there, and sometimes guards will push you along, 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:49.400 move you out of the way. Uh. You can sort 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:51.320 of understand why, I mean that they don't want to 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:54.000 have a case of crowd crush or something like that 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:56.800 with the people there. Yeah. I mean, so you have 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:58.880 and on top of all of this, you have your 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:03.880 you're sort of religious expectations. You have the whole Stendahl 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:07.559 syndrome coming into play here. As you're beholding it now, Robert, 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:09.280 I think you had a couple of accounts you were 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:12.800 reading of people talking about visiting the Kabba, right, Yeah, 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:15.800 I just I tend to find the idea of early 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:19.360 Westerners visiting Mecca and seeing the Kabba in the stone. 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:22.640 I find those really fascinating. And so I just had 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:25.880 had had mainly two here I wanted to to highlight. 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:27.680 And there's a third one that that we end up 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:32.000 referencing later. So the first one that to reference here, 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:37.520 Swiss traveler and Arabic speaker Johann Ludwig Burkhardt, visited Mecca 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:40.880 in eighteen fourteen, so he was very much an Arabic 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:45.400 speaker enthusiast. He was he converted to Islam. This is 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:49.080 also the guy who rediscovered the ruins of Petra, which 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.120 if you're if you're if you're still foggy on what 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:55.320 Petra is, think to what Indiana Jones in the last 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:58.440 year said that is that the treasury building of Petra, 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:01.320 that's the one set in the cliff fool. Yeah, the 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:03.640 tomb of the grail. There were not the tomb, the 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:07.080 resting place, the booby trap place, Yes, the booby trap 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:09.440 place with the with the with all the grail stuff. 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.800 In reality, of course, that is Petra and does not 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:15.800 have booby trap, does not have boot traps. Now, one 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:19.200 of the most notable individuals, one of one of my 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:22.080 favorites to visit Mecca in early times as a Westerner 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.720 is Captain Sir Richard Francis Burton. He visited in eighteen 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:31.560 fifty three, and Burton was also allegedly a convert to 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:36.400 Islam and earlier possible convert to Hinduism. He's a difficult 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:38.360 guy to pin down and it sounds like I'm being 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:42.160 vague here. So he spoke twenty five distinct languages, not 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:46.480 counting dialects. He was something of a bisexual, hedonist, a 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:50.680 spy and explore. He was endlessly fascinated with other cultures, languages, 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:55.960 modes of human sexuality. And he's probably some commentators classify 0:15:56.040 --> 0:16:00.720 him more as an atheist, but his exploration into Hinduism 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:03.760 and Islam are are often referred to his conversions. Like 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:06.960 he didn't just study them, he became them. Yeah, like 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:10.160 that that's kind of my my my read on him, 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:13.040 Like here's a guy who learned all these languages, and 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:15.080 in using these languages, you kind of have to change 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:18.880 the way your brain operates, and even to fake, like 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:21.160 even just to if you were to assume, okay, someone 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:25.480 like Burton, um they just faked Islamic belief in order 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.000 to go on the hodge like to fake that, you 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:31.600 would still have to be so versed in a deep 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:35.800 understanding of the culture the rights entailed there, Like your 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:38.840 cover would be so deep. How would you keep it 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:42.040 from overcoming you? I mean, in one sense it almost 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:46.360 you almost want to say that to fully understand someone 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:49.680 else's religion, you almost have to be able to mentally 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:52.800 convert to it, and kind of hypothetical sense to like 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:55.960 to try to see what it looks like from the inside, right, 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.880 And then at the same time, like Burton again as 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.320 fascinating character, we can't get to everything he did here, 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:03.920 but he wrote a lot about his his travels and 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:07.400 his ideas and his his observations, and at times too 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:10.359 he kind of waffles back and forth. Sometimes he sounds 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.359 you know, very much uh, you know, at one with 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.879 his lam and and and intrigued by it. Other times 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:20.840 he still still see some of that English colonial um 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:24.119 mentality rising to the surface, and he sounds a bit dismissive, 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:27.600 Like I said, very very fascinating guy. Difficult guy to 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.760 to nail down. But here's a quick quote from his 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:35.439 writings about beholding the stone. He said, after thus reaching 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:39.800 the stone, despite popular indignation, testified by impatient shouts, we 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:43.280 monopolize the use of it for at least ten minutes. Yeah, 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:45.560 which is quite a lot. When you see the crowd 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.720 pictures right whilst kissing it and rubbing hands and forehead 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:52.840 upon it. I narrowly observed it and came away persuaded 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:56.760 that it is an aerial light. Other travelers, including Burkhardt, 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.320 had thought it volcanic in origin. Right, So here we're 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:02.520 starting to get to the question of what the stone 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:06.879 is geologically. A lot of commentators throughout the years have 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:11.280 assumed that it was that it was lava of some 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:15.439 kind of basalt, things like that. But here's the idea 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:17.720 that it's an aero light, that it is a type 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:22.800 of meteorite, a space rock. Right. And to understand why 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:26.000 this idea is so appealing, we have to discuss the 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:30.080 mythic the religious history of the stone a little bit. 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:34.080 So if you if you dive into Islamic tradition and 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:38.960 Islamic belief. There's a basic kind of a Damic origin 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:42.000 story and play here. So depending on how you interpret 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:44.400 this origin story, the black Stone dates back to either 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:51.560 Abraham or Adam, the first created human. So one interpretation 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:55.040 is that Adam built the first Kaba on earth, and 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:58.679 here he sat on a white stone okay, a stone 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:01.320 that turned black with the all of man. And the 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:03.879 first Kaba was then destroyed in the Great Flood, and 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:06.639 it wasn't until later that Abraham was tasked with rebuilding 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:09.639 it or building the first cabin, depending on the telling. 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.560 H Another idea here is that this was a meteorite 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:18.040 brought to Abraham by the archangel Gabriel from the mountain 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:21.119 side where it had fallen, or that it originally was 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:23.919 one of the stars of Paradise. Yeah. Now, one of 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:26.760 the reasons they're they're kind of varying takes on this 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:29.359 is because the black Stone, as I understand it, is 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:32.639 not actually mentioned in the Koran. It is uh. It 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:36.440 comes from additional Islamic sources and just sort of traditions. 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:39.800 To me, that's always some of the most interesting things 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:42.280 you find in any religion is the stuff that's not 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:45.879 necessarily straight in the middle of the cannon, but but 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:49.240 not necessarily out of the mainstream cannon either. It's sort 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:53.520 of like it comes from additional traditional material the the 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:57.720 you know, the metadata of the religion, right. I think 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:01.040 we've touched on this before, discussions of of heaven, hell, 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:05.639 and purgatory in Christian and Catholic traditions and where those 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:08.520 ideas come from, because certainly, if you're looking for a 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:12.880 strict definition of those things within the older New Testament, uh, 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:15.480 those details are not really forthcoming. No, you get a 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:17.359 few hints, but you're not going to find Dante in 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:20.160 the Bible right now. In terms of what the stone does. 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:23.280 Already mentioned that it's it's it's considered the right hand 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:25.560 of God. To touch it is to enter into a 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:30.720 contract with God, and there are additional powers that have 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:33.280 been attributed to it. Oh, and I believe this comes 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:38.440 from the writings of one Heinrich von Maltson Well visited 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:41.480 this the Mecca as well in eighteen fifty eight, coming 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:45.879 after the two individuals we already mentioned. Yes, supposedly so 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:49.560 so von maltzon Um. I want to be careful about 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:54.520 citing him because he strikes me as perhaps unreliable and 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:59.359 definitely unsympathetic. Like he wrote this eighteen sixty five book 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:04.360 in German called Mina walfartnc Mecha, which means My Pilgrimage 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:07.400 to Mecca. The books in German. I've not found an 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:12.359 official published translation, but using Google Translate, I did a 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:17.639 little uh looking through this book and he um, he 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:22.679 strikes me as an sort of unsympathetic and perhaps uncomprehending outsider. 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:26.960 So I wouldn't use him as a as a very 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:30.040 reliable account of what the people on the Hajj in 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:33.000 in the nineteenth century we're actually believing. But he at 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:37.040 least claims, possibly wrongly, that the Pilgrims at the time 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:40.760 believed that it was impossible to destroy the Kabba and 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:45.359 the and impossible to destroy the black Stone itself. Uh 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:48.160 so he said that you know, they were attributing these 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:52.119 miraculous powers to it. Now I know, um, you know, 0:21:52.160 --> 0:21:55.320 within every religion there's always going to be plenty of 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:58.400 diversity of opinion and different ideas. But I know one 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:01.480 strong tradition, and it's mom probably not adhered to by 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:04.560 all Muslims, is the idea that you know that that 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:09.160 there aren't miraculous objects you know that that that essentially 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:12.720 people aren't going to do miracles for you. Objects aren't 0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:17.160 going to be miraculous. But if this account of is correct, 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:21.960 there are at least some slightly miraculous uh properties attributed 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:24.280 to the stone at some points in history. But then again, 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:26.920 as I say, this guy kind seems like a jerk 0:22:27.040 --> 0:22:29.920 and like he's maybe not understanding things correctly, Like he 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:34.639 seems disgusted by the rituals. He doesn't at one point 0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:37.280 he's like, I had to go and kiss the stone, 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:41.159 and he calls it the monster, So he's he's perhaps 0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:45.480 not looking at the stone from the perspective of of 0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:48.639 an outsider who has converted to it to Islam and 0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:53.480 is fully uh fully accepting any of the ideas and 0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:55.960 traditions around it. Yeah, or even just trying for the 0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:58.880 sake of understanding, to get into that headspace and what 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:01.359