Speaker 1: If you're just doing an innes civic scipher, I'm your
Speaker 1: host Ramsey's job. Big shout out to my manqu Word,
Speaker 1: who is still traveling the globe, but he will be
Speaker 1: back with us next week, I can assure you. But
Speaker 1: for now, we have a special guest in the studio,
Speaker 1: longtime friend of the show and my teacher, doctor Kimilla Westernberg,
Speaker 1: who is Professor emeritus of English and Music for over
Speaker 1: forty years, as well as the second Vice President for
Speaker 1: Political Action of the Americopa County Branch of the NAACP.
Speaker 1: Today we have spent some time talking about the Jacksonville
Speaker 1: mass shooting, but for the second half of the show,
Speaker 1: we are going to shift gears and be discussing DEI training, diversity,
Speaker 1: equity and inclusion training. These are things that you often
Speaker 1: find in the workplace and other places where human beings
Speaker 1: are organized and have to interact with each other across
Speaker 1: racial lines, and so there's been a tax in recent
Speaker 1: months and years on whether or not it works, and
Speaker 1: we are going to provide a case for DEI training
Speaker 1: shouldn't need it and it doesn't, I know, but that's
Speaker 1: where're to do. So first and foremost, we're going to
Speaker 1: discuss ba BA becoming a better ally BABA and today's
Speaker 1: BIBA was sponsored by Unknown Union, the fashion house situated
Speaker 1: at the intersection of meaning, innovation and culture. More info
Speaker 1: check Unknown Union dot com. And I want to share
Speaker 1: a bit from the ARC Times. That's sure for Arkansas Times.
Speaker 1: Funny right, but they are Oh that is your state, yea, yeah,
Speaker 1: shout out to Arkansas one time and hopefully we'll be
Speaker 1: on the air there soon. We got Yeah, we're negotiating,
Speaker 1: So shout out to Arkansas. They're always in the news
Speaker 1: for like heavy things and being on their own side
Speaker 1: of stuff. But today we're sharing some good news. So
Speaker 1: the school districts calling the state education departments bluff by
Speaker 1: keeping African American studies on the books, schools in Little Rock, North,
Speaker 1: Little Rock and Jonesborough say they'll continue to offer ap
Speaker 1: African American studies despite the last minute maneuver by the
Speaker 1: Arkansas Department of Education to defund and discredit the class
Speaker 1: Little Rock School District, Central High, North, Little Rock High School,
Speaker 1: Jacksonville High and the academies at Jonesborough, along with the
Speaker 1: charter schools North Little Rock Center for Excellence and Easteam
Speaker 1: High school have all confirmed they will offer the course
Speaker 1: and calculate grades on the same elevated five point GPA
Speaker 1: skills other AP classes. A message sent to EASTEAM parents
Speaker 1: revealed details about how the state conveyed the last minute
Speaker 1: news to schools. In fact, East Team students had already
Speaker 1: been in school for more than a week before their
Speaker 1: high school director got word of the state's decision. Jokes
Speaker 1: on the state, though, since EASTEAM will not only continue
Speaker 1: offering the class, but will award the school's first Medal
Speaker 1: of Historical Pursuit and Valor to students who complete it.
Speaker 1: The Jacksonville North Pulaski School District confirmed Thursday that they
Speaker 1: will also continue to offer the class. Education supporters and
Speaker 1: representatives for these Arkansas schools that committed to offering the
Speaker 1: class said they're exploring options for covering test cost with
Speaker 1: the AP African American Studies exams, since the state will
Speaker 1: not do so, unlike with every other A class. So again,
Speaker 1: shout out to the folks fighting back in Arkansas. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we like that, all right, d EI training Does it work?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: Well, the short answer, if I may, is yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1: I've seen attacks recently suggesting that DEI is preaching to
Speaker 1: the choir. The people that come to DEI courses, are
Speaker 1: they already feel that way? There have been people who
Speaker 1: have you know, did the cost analysis of the entire industry.
Speaker 1: D I is a three point six billion dollar industry,
Speaker 1: something like that. And so the folks that are involved
Speaker 1: in DEI training have no incentive to see racism go away.
Speaker 1: And because they're gainfully compensated to weed out violations, everything
Speaker 1: is always a violation to these people, and so they're
Speaker 1: not to be trusted, so forth and so on. Right,
Speaker 1: and so these attacks on DEI erode a lot of
Speaker 1: what people were asking for, a lot of what activists
Speaker 1: were asking for and the more vocal of us in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty and let's be honest in the entirety of
Speaker 1: our history in this country, because a lot of what
Speaker 1: has been asked for has been conversations, understanding, sharing of information,
Speaker 1: insight into what day to day life and activities is.
Speaker 1: And you know, when people start to put a dollar
Speaker 1: amount to things, then businesses start to pay attention. It's
Speaker 1: no longer about does it feel good? Is it the
Speaker 1: right thing to do? It's more about spending money. Are
Speaker 1: we paying less to our shareholders and to our stakeholders
Speaker 1: and to ourselves for something that doesn't work. And so
Speaker 1: you can see how easily a narrative that runs counter
Speaker 1: to the intention of DEI could conceivably take root where
Speaker 1: there is a fiscal incentive to corporations around the country.
Speaker 1: And so this conversation is certainly necessary before we get
Speaker 1: into the nuts and boats, any thoughts, any early thoughts.
Speaker 2: You know the concept of DEI as a two or
Speaker 2: a curriculum, and many ways it's it is needed. But
Speaker 2: I find it very novel, just for me personally, because
Speaker 2: I think I was traveling down that road as soon
Speaker 2: as I became an adult.
Speaker 3: And began working. Okay, the necessity was obvious to me. Sure,
Speaker 3: you cannot be a be all to everyone, and when
Speaker 3: you walk into an environment where your audience is eclectic,
Speaker 3: you cannot use the same had an and structural for everyone.
Speaker 3: You're going to have to deviate a little bit, and
Speaker 3: you have to know the nuances, thank you, of how
Speaker 3: you need to deviate and even why you are deviating.
Speaker 3: So of course it's necessary.
Speaker 1: It's obvious to me, very obvious, obvious, all right, So
Speaker 1: for those of you who might have encountered some of
Speaker 1: these attacks on DEI and and I know, I know
Speaker 1: there's been attacks on African American studies. It's been rebranded
Speaker 1: as critical race. There there's been a tax on wokeness,
Speaker 1: which is effectively pursuing a more equitable society. There's been
Speaker 1: a tax on diversity and equity, and in diversity, equity
Speaker 1: and inclusion, which is understanding how we relate to each
Speaker 1: other in the workplace and everything is It's very easy
Speaker 1: to drape to trace the roots of all of these
Speaker 1: attacks to divisiveness, let's be honest, hate and a far
Speaker 1: right political agenda and insecurity. Oo okay, yeah, we have
Speaker 1: you up here to say the truth and you do
Speaker 1: just that. All right now, I want to share some
Speaker 1: things that help make this point for US. DEI training
Speaker 1: has been increasing in prominence since twenty twelve with major boosts. One,
Speaker 1: let's talk about June team of course, MLK Day. Historically,
Speaker 1: that has been a time of the year when folks
Speaker 1: try to do their their little part. You know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Black History Month, of course, is that the
Speaker 1: time of the year when you know, some companies will
Speaker 1: acknowledge right right exactly and you know, KWANSA and other
Speaker 1: you know, other little moments, right, But D and I's
Speaker 1: is an additional step that often enough companies can make. So,
Speaker 1: as I mentioned, DEI attacked from the right, suggesting that
Speaker 1: the three point six billion dollar DEI industry needs racism
Speaker 1: to sustain itself. Right, so it finds racism everywhere. And
Speaker 1: a particular individual who has a lot to say about
Speaker 1: this as a former DEI trainer and black man. Uh,
Speaker 1: he's a current black man. He's not a former black man,
Speaker 1: well depends on you ask, but he's a former DEI
Speaker 1: trainer slash black man. That's what I was saying. And
Speaker 1: his name is Eric Smith, and he said on Fox News,
Speaker 1: if you're making money off of racism, the last thing
Speaker 1: you want to see is for it to go away. Now.
Speaker 1: I mentioned this a bit on our social media this
Speaker 1: week on Civic Cipher's Instagram and TikTok and all that
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. So folks who've seen it and interacted,
Speaker 1: I appreciate that even the people that disagree, but you know,
Speaker 1: allow me to elaborate. I can do a lot more
Speaker 1: of that in a full segment than I can in
Speaker 1: thirty seconds.
Speaker 3: Right, So.
Speaker 1: For those that saw that, you might recognize that I
Speaker 1: posted a counterpoint which suggested that the cost of racism
Speaker 1: had impacted the economy to the tune of sixteen trillion dollars.
Speaker 1: So while people are saying de training costs three point
Speaker 1: six billion, racism costs the economy sixteen trillion because of discrimination.
Speaker 1: And this is from I believe it was. It might
Speaker 1: have been Chase.
Speaker 3: Bank, City Group that was it.
Speaker 1: So I'll read since two thousand, US gross domestic product
Speaker 1: and this is from NPR. By the way, US gross
Speaker 1: domestic product lost that much as a result of discriminatory
Speaker 1: practices in a range of areas, including in education and
Speaker 1: access to business loans. According to a new study by
Speaker 1: City Group, it's not an insignificant number by comparison to
Speaker 1: US GDP totaled nineteen point five trillion dollars last year,
Speaker 1: So sixteen trillion since twenty twenty. It's over the course
Speaker 1: of twenty years. The economy was nineteen and a half
Speaker 1: trillion as of twenty nineteen. I believe his articles from
Speaker 1: twenty twenty. So here's some some other points or real
Speaker 1: quick and not acting to reverse discriminatory practices will continue
Speaker 1: to exact a cost. City Group estimates that the economy
Speaker 1: would see a five trillion dollar boost over the next
Speaker 1: five years if the US were tackle key areas of
Speaker 1: discrimination against African Americans. Now, this is City Group. This
Speaker 1: is not RAMS, this is not civic scivist, is not
Speaker 1: doctor Westernberger. Okay, city group saying this, And I don't
Speaker 1: believe City group plays the political game to the degree
Speaker 1: that a lot of our elected officials do. Okay, City
Speaker 1: group is about money, literally, right, all right, So here's
Speaker 1: some points. Thirteen trillion dollars lost in potential business revenue
Speaker 1: because of discriminatory lending to African American entrepreneurs, with an
Speaker 1: estimated six point one million jobs not generated as a result.
Speaker 1: Two point seven trillion dollars in income lost because of
Speaker 1: disparities and wages suffered by African Americans. Two hundred and
Speaker 1: eighteen billion dollars lost over the past two decades because
Speaker 1: of discrimination providing in providing housing credit ninety billion to
Speaker 1: one hundred and thirteen billion, and lifetime costs lifetime lost
Speaker 1: from discrimination in accessing higher education. And there's several more
Speaker 1: bill of points. But I want to also add that
Speaker 1: you know, to your point, doctor Westernberger, there's so in
Speaker 1: school and this is just me, I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: have this written down, but I'm glad you made the
Speaker 1: point because it allowed me to remember. I went to
Speaker 1: school for marketing. My bachelor's is in marketing and my
Speaker 1: master's is in management. Okay, so we learned marketing. That's
Speaker 1: what I had to learn in school, Arizona State University. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and one of the things that we learned is that
Speaker 1: there are blind spots when dealing with people who don't
Speaker 1: come from where you come from, don't live the same
Speaker 1: life that you live with. One example that comes to
Speaker 1: mind is Colgate. For Colgate to sell their toothpaste in
Speaker 1: Spanish speaking countries, they have to understand that Colgate translates
Speaker 1: to go hang yourself in Spanish. When you read it
Speaker 1: go right in Spanish, that means go hang yourself, and
Speaker 1: people might not be so likely to purchase this off
Speaker 1: the bat right. It needs a serious rebrand. But if
Speaker 1: you just want to open up that market and you
Speaker 1: don't know that, then you're going to run into some problems.
Speaker 1: You know, your sales projections are going to be off right.
Speaker 1: And this is exactly what happened. This is why the
Speaker 1: story made its way to my class because of corporate
Speaker 1: blind spots. Another one is that in countries where there's
Speaker 1: low literacy rates, some people purchase items based on the
Speaker 1: pictures on the label, not necessarily based on the language.
Speaker 1: And it's not just low literacy rates. It's you know,
Speaker 1: in this country we brand everything in English, and other
Speaker 1: parts of the world they don't read English, speak English.
Speaker 1: It's just not a part of their life, right, But
Speaker 1: we want to still sell the same products with the
Speaker 1: same labels and so forth. Right, But it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: if they can't read English, even the name of your company.
Speaker 1: They're looking for the pictures, corporate blind spot. People are
Speaker 1: looking for the pictures, regardless of literacy rates, regardless of
Speaker 1: any of this stuff. If they don't speak English, they
Speaker 1: look at pictures. Okay, all right, so if you're with me,
Speaker 1: watch this Gerber babies. It's a picture of the baby.
Speaker 1: So what people were horrified to find out is that
Speaker 1: people are selling ground up babies in these little tiny jars. Right, So,
Speaker 1: no one wanted to buy Gerber in these other countries,
Speaker 1: right now, that's true. That come to mind that I
Speaker 1: learned in school, right, And those weren't specific to the
Speaker 1: differences in African American life. Versus you know, white American life.
Speaker 1: But you begin to see the fact that corporate blind
Speaker 1: spots exist right now. If corporate blind spots exist, then
Speaker 1: you miss your sales projections. In addition, you can offend
Speaker 1: different communities. I remember a campaign not too long ago
Speaker 1: from Toyota. Toya had ammercial and they were trying to
Speaker 1: appeal to African Americans, and they had African Americans using
Speaker 1: the products and enjoying themselves, going on trips, et cetera.
Speaker 1: And then at the end of the the commercial there
Speaker 1: was a person smiling and they had a like a
Speaker 1: gold teeth or a grill or something like that, and
Speaker 1: it had the Toyota logo in it. And then black
Speaker 1: people rightfully, so we were like, yo, what is Toyota
Speaker 1: think of us? You know what I mean? Like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And then there's a there's an example here that I
Speaker 1: have that I actually wrote down. This is from August
Speaker 1: twenty three, so this is a recent example. This story
Speaker 1: comes to Black Enterprise. KFC is in hot grease after
Speaker 1: Black Twitter called out its racially offensive ad campaign billboards
Speaker 1: across Canada's It was a Canadian country, but you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of similarities between our two societies. Right, bill
Speaker 1: boards across Canada displayed black pep people enjoying its famous
Speaker 1: fried chicken under the slogan of its finger licking good.
Speaker 1: No problem yet, finger licking good has always been their slogan.
Speaker 1: But you know, our sensitivities have changed, how we're viewed
Speaker 1: has changed. But you know, no problem just yet. Okay,
Speaker 1: And this drew criticism for tone def imagery. Okay. Criticism, though,
Speaker 1: is not the biggest part of the story. Let's keep reading.
Speaker 1: Azim Aktar, director of marketing for KFC Canada's, presented his
Speaker 1: latest campaign to Twitter on August twenty fourth, expressing how
Speaker 1: he couldn't be more proud at how well it seemingly
Speaker 1: turned out quote sorry utensils its finger licking good unquote,
Speaker 1: he wrote, reiterating the model featured in the ads. However,
Speaker 1: his tweet gained traction in a negative light. Naysayers suggested
Speaker 1: that the team missed de mark displaying black people in
Speaker 1: an advertisement that perpetuated historical, historical stereotypes against them. In
Speaker 1: other words, the actors in the ad campaign right, and
Speaker 1: the people in the in the in the photographs and
Speaker 1: then the commercials were black. And now, to be fair,
Speaker 1: I want to tell the whole story. He did have
Speaker 1: other families using the same marketing, right, but on Twitter
Speaker 1: he only used the black families, right, and he was
Speaker 1: very proud of it. But because of this oversight, what
Speaker 1: ended up happening was he ended up offending black people.
Speaker 1: It's like, Okay, black people are licking their fingers, like
Speaker 1: so grateful to have a piece of chicken, and you
Speaker 1: know there's a whole history there, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know that black people didn't always get to eat chicken.
Speaker 1: We had to eat innerds of pigs and cows and
Speaker 1: stuff like that for a long time. But we're a
Speaker 1: person like this that doesn't know that. He might think, well,
Speaker 1: if I don't interject the Asian family and the family
Speaker 1: using the same marketing assets for the ad campaign, then
Speaker 1: it looks like we're just kind of saying, here, black people,
Speaker 1: this is we know, this is what you want to know,
Speaker 1: what you like, and it's offensive. Right. But again, corporate
Speaker 1: blind spots leads to losses in revenue. We talked about
Speaker 1: the what was it, sixteen trillion dollars over the course
Speaker 1: of twenty years corporate blind spots. Now let's add to
Speaker 1: that lawsuits. So we talked about marketing blunders. We talked
Speaker 1: about corporate oversides with lawsuits. People get sued when they
Speaker 1: step out of line. People get sued for touching my hair.
Speaker 1: Right for those that are I mean, this is radio,
Speaker 1: so you can't see me, but I've said it on
Speaker 1: the show time and again, I have a huge afro,
Speaker 1: and it is very touchable to people that you know,
Speaker 1: oh my god, look at this. And I don't mean
Speaker 1: to generalize here, but you know, you're a woman, and
Speaker 1: women have a tendency to wear their hair longer, and
Speaker 1: black women's hair is very special. It does all the tricks.
Speaker 3: I know that because I have.
Speaker 1: Right, right, right, and for people that and I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to put anyone down. And you may not know this,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to say this because it's based in reality.
Speaker 1: For people who have been entitled, blindly entitled to being
Speaker 1: able to do whatever they want, move how they want
Speaker 1: and feel like they will be well received, have not
Speaker 1: had to move with caution, rather have moved with reckless
Speaker 1: abandon throughout the entirety of their lives. Touching someone's hair
Speaker 1: feels like I'm acknowledged I'm doing you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: But you know, at a point it becomes harassment. At
Speaker 1: a point, sensitivities need to be in place. We have
Speaker 1: a different reality, we have a different appreciation for D
Speaker 1: I D I. Thank you Black folks, no hairsm it's
Speaker 1: very especially usespecial. It's different not saying that other people's
Speaker 1: hair is not special to them, but ours is special
Speaker 1: to us in a special way, and partially.
Speaker 3: Because society has made it that way. It probably would
Speaker 3: not be.
Speaker 1: Special if we didn't have to protect it so much.
Speaker 1: Right precisely, Now, let's talk about office humor, jokes that
Speaker 1: are shared, that are that that these things that are
Speaker 1: offensive to to to black and brown and other marginalized
Speaker 1: people's You might think you're connecting. I remember once I
Speaker 1: went up to Prescott, Arizona, the sticks for those that
Speaker 1: don't live here, and I was hanging out with the
Speaker 1: family that was up there, and they started telling racist jokes.
Speaker 1: And I found out later they were trying to relate.
Speaker 1: They were trying to be funny, feel welcome. That's all
Speaker 1: they knew. But it was obviously very offensive and I
Speaker 1: had to sit there and smile. And when I was
Speaker 1: a teenager at the time, but the fact of the
Speaker 1: matter is that well intentioned, well meaning people in corporate
Speaker 1: environments can find themselves on the worst end of a
Speaker 1: lawsuit or of you know, tone death marketing strategy, or
Speaker 1: corporate oversights or whatever. And so I know I talked
Speaker 1: us the whole time.
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry, but so you, I mean, you were
Speaker 3: going into it and that is your area.
Speaker 1: Well I appreciate that. But the long and the short
Speaker 1: of it here is that diversity, equity and inclusion does
Speaker 1: have its benefits. If people don't know, then they will
Speaker 1: continue to violate and we don't get the best of
Speaker 1: each other. In fact, I believe that we tend to
Speaker 1: retreat away from each other without that type of education. Right. Sure,
Speaker 1: With that in mind, that's going to do it for
Speaker 1: us here on Civic Cipher. So as always, i'd like
Speaker 1: to thank you for coming up and hanging out with
Speaker 1: me once again. Uh well, I've done my best to
Speaker 1: do that that you have taken the time with me
Speaker 1: the young age, and I hope that your investment in
Speaker 1: me pays dividends. Sure sure, Doctor Westernberg again Professor Emeritis
Speaker 1: of English and Music for over forty years, as well
Speaker 1: as second Vice President for Political Action of the Americopa
Speaker 1: County Branch of the NAACP, My teacher, my mentor, my
Speaker 1: traveling companion through life particularly and so far as topics
Speaker 1: like these are concerned and enjoy. As always, for those
Speaker 1: of you that want to know more, please hit the
Speaker 1: website civicipher dot com. Follow us on all social media
Speaker 1: at Civic Cipher. You can follow me at ramses joh
Speaker 1: q as I am q ward And until next week, y'all.
Speaker 1: Peace was