1 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the Short Stuff, Josh, Chuck, Jerry, 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,319 Speaker 1: and for Dave, this is short stuff stand back. 3 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 2: That's right about the as Tech death whistle. We talked 4 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 2: a lot about Mexico City one of our favorite places 5 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 2: to visit. And if you go to Mexico City, you 6 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 2: should know that you are a lot of times standing 7 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 2: on the ruins of ancient burial temples as tech temples, 8 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 2: and they have excavated those over the years here and there. 9 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 2: And in the late nineties they excavated a temple dedicated 10 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 2: to the az Tech win God, and they uncovered the 11 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 2: remains of a twenty year old male that was beheaded, 12 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 2: squatting at the base of the stairway and holding a 13 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 2: couple of musical instruments. 14 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, as an aside, I just wanted to say, I 15 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: think I've said it before, the Anthropological Museum in Mexico 16 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: City is world class. 17 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's on my list. It'll happen next time, for sure. 18 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: It's great for that very reason, because there's so many 19 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: ruins just built right over and preserved in that way. 20 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: I mean, think about it. Mexico City's one of the 21 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: most densely populated cities on the planet and people were 22 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: walking over a beheaded skeleton every day until the late 23 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,559 Speaker 1: nineties when they excavated it. You know, yeah, so yeah, 24 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: you said that boy. Did you say he was holding 25 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: whistles or did you just say he was holding something? 26 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 2: I said musical instruments, but you yeah, there you go. 27 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 2: They're whistles. 28 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: Whistles. I mean you could have guessed that from the title, right, probably, 29 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: but these whistles are special whistles. First of all, they're 30 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: kind of tiny, but if you look closely, they had 31 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: a skull engraved on them. And what they think this 32 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: whole thing represents is the kind of union or combination 33 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: between he Coddle and mclonticulty. These are two gods. Miclonticulty 34 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: is the Aztec god of the underworld and death. Hey, 35 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: Coddle is the Aztec win god. And you put them together, 36 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: you got two very powerful gods. And they think that's 37 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: what these death whistles that the guy was holding symbolized. 38 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 2: Nice job in those pronunciations. 39 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: I really looked it up. Yeah, and dude, you should 40 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 1: see how many mispronounced words there are that they just 41 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: sound so confident. There's one, uh, there's a festival called 42 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: push coddle, toush coddle, t O x c A t L. 43 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: You have no idea how many like how's it pronounced? Videos? 44 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: Say tx coddle, it's not tox coddle. 45 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty disappointing. You're not stuff out there. 46 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. 47 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 1: And if you're not sure how to pronounce something, don't 48 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: make a video telling other people how to pronounce something. 49 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, we mispronounced stuff on this show, worldwide show, 50 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 2: but we don't tell people we're pronouncing it right exactly. 51 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: This isn't like how pronunciation works. 52 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 2: Come on, So this is the Aztec death whistle. Those 53 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 2: two whistles this guy had. If you do a little research, 54 00:02:57,840 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 2: you're probably going to see stuff about how they were 55 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:01,959 Speaker 2: used to tear enemies in battle, like they all play 56 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 2: them at once. But what we think we've come down to, 57 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 2: thanks to you know, the study of a lot of people, 58 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 2: but especially this one guy, Arned Both, who is a 59 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 2: music archaeologist, is that these things probably were a little 60 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 2: more ceremonial, right, and maybe used to help guide the 61 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 2: spirit in the afterlife. So this dude, I don't know 62 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 2: if he's a doctor or not, but Both is his name, 63 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 2: Like I said, it's very cool. He's examined ancient musical 64 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 2: instruments and artifacts, tries to in a lot of cases 65 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 2: rebuild them and take some good guesses on what they 66 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 2: were used for. 67 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, which is I'm sure way harder than you would think. 68 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. 69 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: So these those two death whistles were excavated in the 70 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: late nineties, I think in just a couple of years 71 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: later in the aughts. But did you say booth, I 72 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: said both both. He was the first person to actually 73 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: play them, these things that were hundreds and hundreds of 74 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: years old, that a skeleton had been holding for god 75 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: knows how long, well hundreds of years, and he apparently didn't. 76 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: He was like, these they suck, These are terrible death whistles. 77 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a little underwhelming. It didn't make the big, 78 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 2: frightening noise they might have expected. So he did CT 79 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 2: scans on them, rebuilt them larger, like, you know, exact replicas, 80 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 2: and he found that they were an air spring whistle. 81 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 2: So the Mayans had come up with these in seven 82 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 2: to eight hundred CE, and you blow air through this 83 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 2: intake tube and it reacts with the spring of air 84 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 2: inside this chamber and distorts the sound. Then you can 85 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 2: cup your hand over the bottom like a lot of 86 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 2: wind instruments and change the tone and stuff, but it's 87 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 2: completely its own thing. It's not like any Western any 88 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 2: other Western wind instrument. 89 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, they were only made in pre Columbian America. That's 90 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: they are very specific. And spring in this case is 91 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 1: not like a coiled spring. It's like a spring of 92 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: water that you get delicious water from. Right, That's right. So, 93 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: like I said, there's a big wait, We'll just take a. 94 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 3: Break, how about that. Yeah, we'll be right back, okay, Chuck. 95 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 1: So I said, there's a big, strong connection, as I 96 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 1: was saying before before we broke between the wind god 97 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 1: mclonticulty and a caddal and I wasn't lying. There's written 98 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: proof that shows that I'm correct. 99 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 2: That's right. It's written in a pre Columbian document called 100 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 2: the Codex Borgia, and it is a manuscript. It's illustrated, 101 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: and it shows. It's got a lot of stuff in there. 102 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: It's got history, it's got like some of the things 103 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 2: that were studying, like botany, the stars, and it's got 104 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 2: a great, big, comprehensive list of their pantheon of gods. 105 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: And the top notch mushroom soup casserole recipe. 106 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 2: It might. For all I know, I can't tell anymore. 107 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: So Miquelon Ticulti and a Coddal I just like saying 108 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: them now, I know now that I can say them correctly. 109 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 1: They're back to back, arms crossed like local anchored. 110 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 2: Did they invent that? 111 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 1: I think so? God both looking at the at you, 112 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 1: the viewer, almost with a sassy kind of look on 113 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: their face. Sure, and they are guarding the underworld together. 114 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: So these these guys are definitely connected in the Aztec pantheon, 115 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: which goes to support That's what those death whistles are 116 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: kind of symbolizing, these two gods together that in one 117 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: interpretation at least, you could say is life and death. 118 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: The god of life the god of death. 119 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 2: That's right, So I mentioned it may be used to 120 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 2: kind of guide you through the spirit world in that 121 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 2: Aztec tradition, when someone dies, it's a pretty perilous route 122 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 2: to get to the underworld takes nine years, yeah, nine years, 123 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 2: And there's all kinds of rituals that people in the 124 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 2: living world do to urge them on to give them strength. 125 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 2: One example here in this case it's pretty appropriate, is 126 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,679 Speaker 2: the dead cross a large field being whipped by a wind, 127 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 2: like a really fierce wind. And in that book, in 128 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 2: the Codex Borgia, those winds are represented by blades, by 129 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 2: obsidian blades, and those were the blades that they used 130 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 2: to make sacrifices. You go back to this temple site 131 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 2: where they found these whistles, and not only did they 132 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 2: have those whistles, but there was a ceramic bowl there 133 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:05,119 Speaker 2: as well that had obsidian blades next to the body 134 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 2: of this guy. 135 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: And a little sign that said take one, leave one. 136 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: So this, I mean, all of this together just basically 137 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: shows this is what those death whistles almost certainly were. 138 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: And the reason that we're not just us, but both 139 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: in particular Booth or both the music archaeologists, is going 140 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: to all this trouble is because we don't know exactly 141 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: what these things were used for, how they were used, 142 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: what they were meant to sound like. We just don't know. 143 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:37,959 Speaker 1: So you have to piece together all this disparate information 144 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: to kind of come together. And what it ultimately is 145 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 1: laying a pretty good case for is that these were 146 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: ritual musical instruments used in a specific ritual, probably like 147 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,319 Speaker 1: you said, to help departed souls across that field, that 148 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: one level of the underworld. 149 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, the wind. 150 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: And then also in that festival, I talked about touch 151 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: coddle to honor the god tit's ketlepoca. That one is 152 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: pronounced like it looks. 153 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. So in nineteen thirteen there was a folklorus named 154 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 2: Lewis Spence Nice who wrote really nailed that one who 155 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 2: wrote Myths of Mexico and Peru, and he described this 156 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 2: festival and this is sort of the key part as 157 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 2: far as we're concerned. On the day of this festival, 158 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 2: a youth was slain YadA, YadA YadA. He carried also 159 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 2: the whistle symbolical of the deity lord of the night wind, 160 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 2: and made with it a noise such as the weird 161 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 2: wind of night makes when it hurries through the streets. 162 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it does. I mean, there's videos online of 163 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: people playing these, like indigenous musicians playing death whistles, and 164 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: you can kind of get the idea of like, oh, okay, 165 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: this kind of does sound like an agonized scream. There's 166 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 1: a point to be made though that these replica death whistles, 167 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:03,439 Speaker 1: especially you know, made by both they're larger than the 168 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: regular size, so just by that alone means they're not 169 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: going to sound like the other ones will. So I 170 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: think what both kind of concluded is that he's just 171 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: he's not instructed in how to play these original small 172 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: death whistles that the sacrifice guy was was holding, yeah, 173 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 1: and that he just can't do it. He never had 174 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: to do. He looked around at the crowd. 175 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. 176 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 2: Yeah. The notion that they were maybe used in battle. 177 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 2: They definitely did stuff like that with obviously drums, but 178 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 2: also blowing into conkshells like the Waponi wu getting together. 179 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 2: Maybe they're communicating with each other. Maybe they're just again 180 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 2: trying to like scare their enemies. But when they asked 181 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 2: both like well what about this death whistle, he was 182 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 2: like have you seen these things? He's like, this is 183 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 2: the size of my pinky. Yeah, it's like this didn't 184 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 2: get to scare even three hundred of these didn't gonna 185 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 2: scare anybody. 186 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: No, but some drums will in a conk shell, well 187 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: for sure. 188 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's it. 189 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: Death whistles probably not used in battle, but almost certainly 190 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: used in rituals that ended in someone's beheading. That's right, 191 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: Chuck said, that's right. I think that means short stuff 192 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: is it? 193 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 2: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 194 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 2: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 195 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,199 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.