WEBVTT - The Happiness of Silence 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:29.236 Pushkin. It's May twenty fifth, seventeen eighty seven, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 0:00:29.356 --> 0:00:31.916 and the normal morning hustle is beginning to take over 0:00:31.956 --> 0:00:36.716 the streets. Horse Drawn carriages pound over stone cobblestones, as 0:00:36.796 --> 0:00:39.636 vendor carts with their loud iron wheels trickle into the road. 0:00:40.236 --> 0:00:43.676 Merchants chat with potential buyers, and pedestrians who cross the 0:00:43.756 --> 0:00:46.636 road get their usual taunting by the men incarcerated in 0:00:46.716 --> 0:00:49.716 the four story Walnut Street prison who are seeking out alms. 0:00:51.236 --> 0:00:53.796 It's in the midst of this bustling eighteenth century urban 0:00:53.836 --> 0:00:56.756 scene that dozens of powdered wig leaders from across the 0:00:56.836 --> 0:01:01.276 land begin filing into Pennsylvania Statehouse. They'd soon be taking 0:01:01.316 --> 0:01:03.876 part in a series of conversations that would change the 0:01:03.876 --> 0:01:08.396 fate of the nation. The stated goal of their historic meeting, 0:01:08.516 --> 0:01:11.236 which news papers at the time called the Grand Convention 0:01:11.236 --> 0:01:14.916 of States and history books would later call the Constitutional Congress, 0:01:15.556 --> 0:01:18.716 was to fix the previously ratified articles of the Confederation. 0:01:19.916 --> 0:01:22.116 But the real intention of the convention was to do 0:01:22.196 --> 0:01:24.556 something which at the time had never been done before. 0:01:25.196 --> 0:01:28.156 The delegates planned to draft a constitution that would create 0:01:28.196 --> 0:01:31.076 a new kind of government. If you're at all familiar 0:01:31.116 --> 0:01:33.556 with US history, you probably know what happened in the 0:01:33.556 --> 0:01:37.876 months that followed the US Constitution was born. And from 0:01:37.876 --> 0:01:40.716 today's vantage point, it might seem inevitable that these leaders 0:01:40.756 --> 0:01:43.476 would succeed in their grand mission. But back on that 0:01:43.556 --> 0:01:46.996 sweltering seventeen eighty seven morning, it wasn't so obvious how 0:01:46.996 --> 0:01:49.996 the fateful meeting would go. Tensions were high at the 0:01:50.036 --> 0:01:53.676 start of the so called Great Experiment. The task of 0:01:53.716 --> 0:01:56.316 figuring out how to create a union from so many 0:01:56.356 --> 0:02:00.076 diverse states was a really difficult one. If these lawmakers 0:02:00.076 --> 0:02:02.676 were actually going to change the course of history, they 0:02:02.716 --> 0:02:05.996 needed to concentrate in spite of all the bustle and 0:02:06.116 --> 0:02:10.996 noise on the Philadelphia streets outside. The delegates started by 0:02:11.036 --> 0:02:13.396 closing all the windows of their forty by forty foot 0:02:13.436 --> 0:02:16.316 conference room, even though the record breaking heat had them 0:02:16.356 --> 0:02:20.516 sweating badly through their waistcoats and powdered wigs. But clamping 0:02:20.516 --> 0:02:22.756 all the windows wasn't enough to quiet the din of 0:02:22.796 --> 0:02:26.876 galloping horses and wagon wheels streaming by outside, So the 0:02:26.916 --> 0:02:29.476 delegates decided to call in a big favor from the 0:02:29.516 --> 0:02:33.236 local Philadelphia government. The city leaders got as much dirt 0:02:33.276 --> 0:02:35.996 and gravel and straw as they could find and threw 0:02:35.996 --> 0:02:38.676 it on top of the cobblestone roads surrounding the Statehouse. 0:02:39.956 --> 0:02:42.396 It was the sort of seventeen eighty seven equivalent of 0:02:42.516 --> 0:02:46.836 noise canceling headphones. And the delegates to the Constitutional Convention 0:02:46.916 --> 0:02:52.196 actually had this giant earthen noise barrier constructed because they 0:02:52.316 --> 0:02:56.476 wanted to have pristine quiet, because they didn't want any 0:02:56.796 --> 0:03:00.676 street vendors or the sound of carriages outside or conversations 0:03:01.036 --> 0:03:05.236 to disturb their intense deliberation, their deep thinking. They're deep work, 0:03:05.916 --> 0:03:08.716 so this was a value that they had. This is 0:03:08.756 --> 0:03:12.756 author and congressional strategist Justin Zorn in his work on 0:03:12.796 --> 0:03:15.876 Capitol Hill Today. Justin has seen that two hundred plus 0:03:15.956 --> 0:03:19.396 years later, twenty first century legislators don't really seem to 0:03:19.436 --> 0:03:22.516 prioritize Christine quiet in the same way our forefathers did. 0:03:22.916 --> 0:03:26.556 And I found that it was such erratically different reality 0:03:26.916 --> 0:03:31.036 for US lawmakers today. Everywhere you'd go, there were TVs 0:03:31.116 --> 0:03:36.956 blasting alarms, blasting signaling floor votes. There were industry lobbyist 0:03:36.996 --> 0:03:42.516 schmoozing and backslapping and open bar receptions, phones ringing that 0:03:42.636 --> 0:03:45.676 back then there was for all the problems of that age, 0:03:45.916 --> 0:03:48.916 there was, at least in that work, a culture that 0:03:48.996 --> 0:03:52.876 honored quiet time, a culture that valued Christine human attention, 0:03:53.356 --> 0:03:55.796 which is something that's not so present in the cultures 0:03:55.836 --> 0:03:59.836 today in most of our society. Over the last few episodes, 0:03:59.916 --> 0:04:02.316 we've talked about the importance of listening to our wise 0:04:02.436 --> 0:04:05.196 but quiet inner voices, and how doing so maybe the 0:04:05.276 --> 0:04:08.196 key to feeling happier in the new year. But how 0:04:08.236 --> 0:04:10.916 can we actually hear those inner voices and a society 0:04:10.956 --> 0:04:14.436 filled with so much noise. So, in this final episode 0:04:14.436 --> 0:04:16.796 of our special New Year's season, I want to examine 0:04:16.796 --> 0:04:18.916 what we might be losing in a culture that doesn't 0:04:18.916 --> 0:04:21.836 make room for true silence. I want to talk about 0:04:21.876 --> 0:04:24.716 the costs of too much noise and explore whether there 0:04:24.716 --> 0:04:27.236 are strategies we can use to fight back against all 0:04:27.236 --> 0:04:30.116 the unnecessary stuff that grabs our ears and our attention, 0:04:30.796 --> 0:04:33.916 so that we, like those thoughtful constitutional delegates back in 0:04:33.956 --> 0:04:36.596 the day, can get the calm and attentional quiet we 0:04:36.676 --> 0:04:44.436 need to really flourish. Our minds are constantly telling us 0:04:44.436 --> 0:04:46.276 what to do to be happy, But what if our 0:04:46.316 --> 0:04:49.036 minds are wrong? What if our minds are lying to us, 0:04:49.516 --> 0:04:51.516 leading us away from what will really make us happy. 0:04:52.476 --> 0:04:54.756 The good news is that understanding the science of the 0:04:54.796 --> 0:04:56.876 mind can join us all back in the right direction. 0:04:57.756 --> 0:05:01.716 You're listening to the Happiness Lab with doctor Laurie Santos. 0:05:07.876 --> 0:05:11.276 It really came from a place despondency where we were 0:05:11.316 --> 0:05:15.476 pressing in our various places of work, Justin on Capitol Hill, 0:05:16.036 --> 0:05:19.316 me working with scientists and engineers, trying to work on 0:05:19.316 --> 0:05:22.236 climate chains or removing toxic chemicals. So these things that 0:05:22.276 --> 0:05:25.196 are so important where there's so much urgency, and that 0:05:25.316 --> 0:05:30.316 experience of everybody's speeding up, adding more meetings, right more 0:05:30.556 --> 0:05:34.716 everything that we found ourselves at the end of our rope. 0:05:35.116 --> 0:05:38.396 This is Justin's collaborator, Lee mars Lea and Justin are 0:05:38.476 --> 0:05:41.236 evangelical about the problems that stem from the noise in 0:05:41.236 --> 0:05:44.596 our modern society. In fact, they've recently co authored a 0:05:44.596 --> 0:05:47.756 book entitled Golden, The Power of Silence in a World 0:05:47.756 --> 0:05:50.556 of Noise. The book argues that we'd all be a 0:05:50.556 --> 0:05:52.956 lot happier if we could begin controlling the noise in 0:05:52.996 --> 0:05:56.196 our lives. I asked Lee to explain what she meant 0:05:56.236 --> 0:05:59.356 by this idea of noise. Noise can be described in 0:05:59.436 --> 0:06:03.796 two words as unwanted distractions, and usually that comes at 0:06:03.876 --> 0:06:07.996 us through our ears, through our screens, and even internally 0:06:08.156 --> 0:06:12.316 through our own thoughts, ruminative, worry, things like that. So 0:06:12.476 --> 0:06:14.956 unwanted distraction, So that which gets in the way of 0:06:14.996 --> 0:06:18.636 what we want, our deepest intentions for being here, and 0:06:18.716 --> 0:06:20.716 things that get in the way of us doing what 0:06:20.716 --> 0:06:22.956 we're here to do in the world. And so let's 0:06:22.996 --> 0:06:25.516 talk about the three ways you've described that this kind 0:06:25.516 --> 0:06:28.196 of noise, the sort of unwanted distraction comes in. You know, 0:06:28.236 --> 0:06:30.036 one is the way we typically think of noise, which 0:06:30.036 --> 0:06:32.356 is auditory noise. But you will have argued that that's 0:06:32.356 --> 0:06:34.996 actually getting a lot worse. Yeah, we we did ask 0:06:34.996 --> 0:06:37.836 the question is it really louder? And the evidence is 0:06:37.876 --> 0:06:41.836 showing absolutely. Across Europe and estimated four hundred and fifty 0:06:41.836 --> 0:06:44.756 million people are living, that's about sixty five percent of 0:06:44.756 --> 0:06:47.556 the population are living with dess levels that are thought 0:06:47.636 --> 0:06:50.716 to be harmful to health. According to the World Health Organization, 0:06:51.156 --> 0:06:54.516 siren levels have gotten six times louder in order to 0:06:54.556 --> 0:06:57.076 pierce through the den and get our attention than these 0:06:57.156 --> 0:07:00.636 loud urban soundscapes. So it is definitely, without a doubt 0:07:00.636 --> 0:07:03.156 louder and it's not just auditory noise that's going up 0:07:03.196 --> 0:07:05.996 justin You've also talked a lot about informational noise. What 0:07:06.036 --> 0:07:08.436 do you mean by that and why is it getting worse? Yeah, 0:07:08.556 --> 0:07:10.436 it's not just the noise in our ears, it's the 0:07:10.476 --> 0:07:13.276 noise on our screens and in our heads. And thinking 0:07:13.276 --> 0:07:16.876 about the screens, we look to a two ten statement 0:07:16.916 --> 0:07:19.876 that Eric Schmidt, who is then the CEO of Google, 0:07:20.076 --> 0:07:23.836 made this estimate that every two days we now create 0:07:23.876 --> 0:07:26.756 as much information as we did from the dawn of 0:07:26.876 --> 0:07:30.996 civilization up until two thousand and three, and researchers have 0:07:31.036 --> 0:07:35.036 found that most people switch between different online content every 0:07:35.316 --> 0:07:39.556 nineteen seconds, that the average person spends one full hour 0:07:39.756 --> 0:07:43.156 per day every day working to get back on track 0:07:43.596 --> 0:07:47.996 after dealing with interruptions from phones and social medias. So 0:07:48.036 --> 0:07:51.876 in aggregate, we take in about five times as much 0:07:51.956 --> 0:07:55.396 information most people in the United States as we did 0:07:55.396 --> 0:07:58.556 in nineteen eighty six. So it's like we're trying to 0:07:58.636 --> 0:08:01.836 drink out of a fire hose of information. And so 0:08:01.876 --> 0:08:04.476 that was informational noise. But you've also argued for a 0:08:04.596 --> 0:08:07.676 third kind of noise, which you call internal noise. Lee. 0:08:07.756 --> 0:08:09.316 What's that and why is it such a problem one 0:08:09.356 --> 0:08:12.596 for us. So everything we just mentioned is external, but 0:08:12.716 --> 0:08:17.436 thinking about our internal soundscape internal noise. Ethan Cross, the 0:08:17.556 --> 0:08:20.676 professor at University of Michigan who wrote the book Chatter, 0:08:20.956 --> 0:08:23.556 estimates that we listen to something like three hundred and 0:08:23.556 --> 0:08:27.556 twenty State of the Union addresses every day of compressed speech, 0:08:28.036 --> 0:08:30.836 and that speech is not often helpful, as you know 0:08:31.036 --> 0:08:34.756 very well, could be worrying, fixating, ruminating of all kinds, 0:08:35.156 --> 0:08:39.036 just looping and carving those pathways. When we get back 0:08:39.036 --> 0:08:41.196 from the break, we're going to discuss solutions to all 0:08:41.196 --> 0:08:44.316 the problems that stem from unnecessary noise. We'll see that 0:08:44.356 --> 0:08:46.796 there are strategies we can use to deliberately seek out 0:08:46.796 --> 0:08:50.076 the pristine attention Justin mentioned. If we're willing to put 0:08:50.076 --> 0:08:52.756 in some time and effort, the Happiness Lab will be 0:08:52.796 --> 0:09:04.236 back in a moment. Authors Lemars and Justin Zorn argue 0:09:04.276 --> 0:09:06.196 that we need to start paying attention to some of 0:09:06.236 --> 0:09:09.116 the negative consequences that come from being around too much noise, 0:09:09.916 --> 0:09:13.196 whether that unwanted distraction comes from the auditory world, the 0:09:13.316 --> 0:09:16.596 endless information streams around us, or the soil of thoughts 0:09:16.596 --> 0:09:19.436 inside our head. Over the last few years, the pair 0:09:19.516 --> 0:09:22.236 has begun mindfully noticing what happens in their bodies and 0:09:22.356 --> 0:09:25.036 their minds when there are too many demands on their consciousness. 0:09:25.636 --> 0:09:28.516 When I become irritable, this is a telltale sign that 0:09:28.596 --> 0:09:31.516 I am saturated by noise, because that's not my default. 0:09:31.636 --> 0:09:34.836 They also notice some physical things like tightness in the 0:09:34.916 --> 0:09:38.476 jaw the diaphragm, have trouble filling my lungs with air, 0:09:38.716 --> 0:09:41.236 even to the point where I have panic attacks at night. 0:09:41.316 --> 0:09:45.356 But I'll also notice relational tension. So it's it's physical things, 0:09:45.356 --> 0:09:48.756 it's emotional things, and also things with relationships. They're not 0:09:48.796 --> 0:09:51.196 going as well as they typically are. Justin did you 0:09:51.276 --> 0:09:54.836 experience similar things we talk about noise. The experience of 0:09:54.916 --> 0:09:58.876 noisiness is a feeling of contraction. It's like this contracted 0:09:58.956 --> 0:10:00.956 state of being, And that's often what it feels like 0:10:01.036 --> 0:10:03.836 for me when I'm like constantly reaching from my phone 0:10:03.876 --> 0:10:07.636 to check my email, or constantly looking to be stimulated, 0:10:07.716 --> 0:10:12.996 constantly seeking some kind of auditory or informational distraction. There's 0:10:13.036 --> 0:10:17.076 a kind of contractedness in my whole being. As a society, 0:10:17.156 --> 0:10:21.516 we tend to view happiness as a kind of contracted state. 0:10:21.916 --> 0:10:26.036 As the dopamine rush. But there's a deeper, more sustainable 0:10:26.236 --> 0:10:29.956 kind of more fulfilling happiness that's more akin to what 0:10:30.036 --> 0:10:35.796 Aristotle talked about, like eudaimonia. That's not that contracted dopamine 0:10:35.876 --> 0:10:39.796 go go go rushed state. It's a more open, expanded 0:10:39.836 --> 0:10:43.076 state of happiness that corresponds to the kind of Christine 0:10:43.076 --> 0:10:45.876 attention we're talking about. But you all are really really 0:10:45.916 --> 0:10:48.436 worried about this, Like you made the strong claim that 0:10:48.596 --> 0:10:50.676 all of the world's problems are in part due to 0:10:50.716 --> 0:10:53.196 this noise. Well, we're living in a time when we 0:10:53.276 --> 0:10:57.556 often mistake feelings of stress for aliveness. We look in 0:10:57.596 --> 0:11:01.756 the book at how noises our most celebrated addiction these days. 0:11:02.036 --> 0:11:05.876 How we often measure progress and productivity in terms of 0:11:05.876 --> 0:11:09.156 how much mental stuff we're creating. We look in the 0:11:09.196 --> 0:11:12.596 book at how we measure GDP, for example, in terms 0:11:12.636 --> 0:11:15.796 of how much industrial stuff we're creating, but also how 0:11:15.876 --> 0:11:19.796 much sound and stimulus, how much data and content we're creating. 0:11:20.196 --> 0:11:22.756 If you take our attention and you chop it up 0:11:22.796 --> 0:11:25.356 and turn it into eyeballs on a Facebook page that 0:11:25.476 --> 0:11:30.156 juices advertising revenue, then that increases GDP. But if you 0:11:30.236 --> 0:11:34.276 keep our attention whole, if you keep our attention pristine 0:11:34.796 --> 0:11:38.556 in a moment of undisturbed play with our kids, or 0:11:38.596 --> 0:11:42.036 admiring a beautiful piece of art in a museum, or 0:11:42.156 --> 0:11:46.276 enjoying a walk in nature. That's not optimizing GDP. So 0:11:46.276 --> 0:11:48.636 we just thought about how bizarre it is that the 0:11:48.756 --> 0:11:52.276 way we measure progress as a society is this measure 0:11:52.316 --> 0:11:58.956 of GDP is this measure of maximum sound and stimulus, maximizing, optimizing, increasing. 0:11:59.396 --> 0:12:01.836 So we just thought about how bizarre it is that 0:12:01.876 --> 0:12:05.316 the way we measure progress as a society is this 0:12:05.476 --> 0:12:11.356 measure GDP is this measure of maximum sound and stimulus, maximizing, optimizing, 0:12:11.676 --> 0:12:16.956 increasing the number of claims we're making our unconsciousness. Justin 0:12:17.036 --> 0:12:19.236 and Lee wanted to better understand what's needed to get 0:12:19.236 --> 0:12:22.596 to that expanded state of consciousness. They mentioned that sense 0:12:22.636 --> 0:12:25.716 of Christine attention. So they decided to explore how we 0:12:25.716 --> 0:12:28.516 can successfully quiet the noise that's around so many of 0:12:28.596 --> 0:12:31.196 us all the time. To do so, they asked an 0:12:31.196 --> 0:12:33.836 eclectic group of lay people and experts how they find 0:12:33.836 --> 0:12:37.956 silence in their lives. The question we pose to neuroscientists 0:12:37.956 --> 0:12:40.996 and politicians and artists and a whirling dervish is what's 0:12:41.036 --> 0:12:44.716 the deepest silence you've ever known. When we asked this question, 0:12:44.756 --> 0:12:50.076 we expected some of those answers to be really auditorily quiet, 0:12:50.396 --> 0:12:54.116 right moments maybe on a mountain peak, profound moments of 0:12:54.156 --> 0:12:57.276 deep and deep meditation. But what they pointed us towards 0:12:57.276 --> 0:13:02.636 instead were moments of awe births, deaths, and moments that 0:13:02.636 --> 0:13:05.956 were sometimes auditorily quite loud, which again kind of led 0:13:05.996 --> 0:13:09.236 the way to looking at that internal state of it 0:13:09.436 --> 0:13:11.716 and not just the external one. So you use that 0:13:11.796 --> 0:13:13.996 question and all these kind of interesting answers, you get 0:13:14.036 --> 0:13:17.196 to come to this definition of silence. You know, justin 0:13:17.276 --> 0:13:20.076 how are you thinking about silence? So, at one level, 0:13:20.796 --> 0:13:25.316 silences the absence of noise. It's the space where no 0:13:25.356 --> 0:13:28.196 one is making claims on the consciousness. It's the space 0:13:28.236 --> 0:13:32.196 where no one is interfering with your clear perception and 0:13:32.276 --> 0:13:38.036 also your clear intention. It's not so straightforward, because silence 0:13:38.156 --> 0:13:42.796 is often scary. Silence is often uncomfortable. So it's like 0:13:42.876 --> 0:13:46.996 we're wired now to believe that happiness is the opposite 0:13:46.996 --> 0:13:49.956 of silence. Yea. And even for those tiny examples like 0:13:50.036 --> 0:13:52.476 awkward silence. I have a teenage daughter, and there's nothing 0:13:52.516 --> 0:13:55.476 more horrifying than awkward silence in her world, the horror 0:13:55.516 --> 0:13:59.636 of the vacuum, the space where we have to confront ourselves, 0:13:59.796 --> 0:14:03.276 confront the unknown and what might become known. So experiencing 0:14:03.316 --> 0:14:05.396 silence is scary, But talk to me about some of 0:14:05.436 --> 0:14:08.836 the science showing the unexpected power of silence. We look 0:14:08.836 --> 0:14:11.396 at to the neuroscience and we ask this question, what 0:14:11.436 --> 0:14:14.476 if there were a mute button for the mind? Well, 0:14:14.756 --> 0:14:16.676 Mehi Chick set me high. We turned to his work 0:14:16.716 --> 0:14:20.716 on flow states where people really express a lot of 0:14:20.836 --> 0:14:24.636 joy being in flow. It's an incredibly universal experience. He 0:14:24.676 --> 0:14:28.676 describes in one piece of that we describe as internal silence. 0:14:29.036 --> 0:14:32.556 That's a place where there's no more space for self 0:14:32.596 --> 0:14:36.716 referential thought. You're no longer talking to yourself about yourself, 0:14:37.076 --> 0:14:39.116 and he says that turns out to be a very 0:14:39.196 --> 0:14:43.236 enjoyable experience. You know, you're tearing down a hill, skiing, 0:14:43.476 --> 0:14:46.996 we're in a dance class with a music blasting, but 0:14:47.196 --> 0:14:49.596 you're using that attention that you need in order to 0:14:49.596 --> 0:14:52.076 focus on that activity so much that there's no more 0:14:52.156 --> 0:14:55.436 space for that self referential thought. And that turns out 0:14:55.436 --> 0:14:58.076 to be a very happy experience for us. And so 0:14:58.156 --> 0:15:00.116 flow is the kind of thing that brings us happiness. 0:15:00.116 --> 0:15:02.916 But interestingly, it also seems just the absence of auditory 0:15:02.996 --> 0:15:05.556 noise can make us feel good. Yeah, there's been some 0:15:05.636 --> 0:15:08.836 brain studies looking at the effects of different types of 0:15:09.636 --> 0:15:12.156 on the brains of mammals, and it was found that 0:15:12.196 --> 0:15:15.036 it was silence, more than classical music and white noise 0:15:15.076 --> 0:15:18.636 and other soothing sounds that stimulated the growth of neurons 0:15:18.676 --> 0:15:21.476 in the hypocampus, which is the region of the brain 0:15:21.596 --> 0:15:25.076 most associated with memory and with the researchers, these researchers 0:15:25.116 --> 0:15:28.556 at Duke Medical School found was that the act of 0:15:28.756 --> 0:15:33.556 trying to hear in silence activates the brain and promotes 0:15:33.636 --> 0:15:37.236 neural development. So it's not just silence, but this act 0:15:37.276 --> 0:15:42.116 of paying attention to the silence. So far, we've heard 0:15:42.156 --> 0:15:45.196 some of the benefits of silence, whether that's experiencing less 0:15:45.236 --> 0:15:48.596 auditory noise or just calming the rapid chatter inside our heads. 0:15:49.116 --> 0:15:51.076 But when we get back from the break, we'll hear 0:15:51.116 --> 0:15:53.876 more about practical strategies we can use to achieve these 0:15:53.876 --> 0:15:57.516 blessings and to find the Christine calm that silence can offer. 0:15:58.076 --> 0:16:12.236 The happiness lab will be right back as I chatted 0:16:12.236 --> 0:16:14.876 with authors Lee Mars and Justin Zorn about ways we 0:16:14.876 --> 0:16:16.956 can all get a little more silence in our lives. 0:16:17.316 --> 0:16:19.916 I was surprised when Lee began her list of strategies 0:16:19.956 --> 0:16:22.636 with a bit of a confession. Lee used to be 0:16:22.676 --> 0:16:25.716 a smoker. And the confession really isn't so much that 0:16:25.756 --> 0:16:28.396 I used to smoke, it's that I loved it. I 0:16:28.436 --> 0:16:32.076 absolutely love the ritual of taking a break from crisis work, 0:16:32.076 --> 0:16:33.676 which is what I was doing at the time, or 0:16:33.756 --> 0:16:37.116 everything would just paused stop. I would take a deep inhale, 0:16:37.316 --> 0:16:41.796 deep exhale with that cigarette, Watch the smoke rise, hear 0:16:41.916 --> 0:16:45.116 the sizzle of the flame, things like that. So I 0:16:45.156 --> 0:16:48.116 loved that, And well, I'm really glad that I quit. 0:16:48.316 --> 0:16:51.836 When we quit our smoke break, we also quit quiet breaks. 0:16:51.996 --> 0:16:55.996 We quit that interruption of constant working and flow. And 0:16:56.036 --> 0:16:58.396 so you've talked about how finding these kind of healthier 0:16:58.596 --> 0:17:00.716 versions of the smoking break, or at least these kind 0:17:00.756 --> 0:17:03.836 of healthier rituals of silence, start with this idea of 0:17:03.836 --> 0:17:06.836 recognizing what's in your sphere of control. Justin what do 0:17:06.876 --> 0:17:09.676 you mean by sphere of control? We look at this 0:17:09.716 --> 0:17:12.236 idea of what's in our sphere of control, even in 0:17:12.276 --> 0:17:15.676 our busy lives. We talk in the book with someone 0:17:15.676 --> 0:17:18.516 who became a kind of guide for us in Jarvis 0:17:18.636 --> 0:17:22.476 Jay Masters, and Jarvis has spent thirty years on death 0:17:22.636 --> 0:17:26.236 row for a crime that the preponderance of evidence shows 0:17:26.276 --> 0:17:29.716 that he didn't commit, and he's learned how to study 0:17:29.836 --> 0:17:35.836 his own mind and study what's possible within an extraordinarily 0:17:36.036 --> 0:17:39.996 constrained set of circumstances where he's not even allowed to 0:17:40.036 --> 0:17:42.876 decide when he goes outside, when he takes a shower. 0:17:43.236 --> 0:17:47.476 He's able to find these little moments of silence in 0:17:47.516 --> 0:17:50.916 his life, have quiet time, and have the space in 0:17:50.956 --> 0:17:55.196 his life to just be immersed in doing one thing. 0:17:55.676 --> 0:17:57.556 So we take that as a kind of signal that 0:17:57.956 --> 0:18:01.156 we can find it too. One of the practical suggestions 0:18:01.156 --> 0:18:04.036 that you've started with is this idea of just listening. 0:18:04.316 --> 0:18:06.276 What do you mean by just listening and why can 0:18:06.316 --> 0:18:09.796 it be so powerful. There's this ancient practice out of 0:18:09.796 --> 0:18:13.836 India called Nada yoga that's a kind of meditation on silence. 0:18:13.836 --> 0:18:16.756 Have just listened to nothing, and it's something we incorporated 0:18:16.796 --> 0:18:20.076 into our lives. Sometimes just stepping outside and listening to 0:18:20.116 --> 0:18:23.076 the sound of the breeze, or stepping into a quiet 0:18:23.156 --> 0:18:26.396 room and actively listening to nothing in particular, and it's 0:18:26.396 --> 0:18:29.076 really the essence of what the researchers at Duke Med 0:18:29.156 --> 0:18:32.356 School who were studying the effect of listening in silence 0:18:32.396 --> 0:18:37.396 intentionally listening in silence can do. Just listening to nothing 0:18:37.796 --> 0:18:40.196 is edifying for the brain, and as a friend of 0:18:40.196 --> 0:18:44.156 ours says, helps reset the nervous system. But you've also 0:18:44.196 --> 0:18:46.796 found just in that even just listening when there is 0:18:46.916 --> 0:18:49.516 noise can kind of help your reset. You told a 0:18:49.556 --> 0:18:52.356 funny story about your daughter and an annoying toy, which 0:18:52.396 --> 0:18:56.116 I wanted you to share. In the spring of twenty twenty, 0:18:56.156 --> 0:18:58.796 in the middle of the COVID lockdowns, my wife and 0:18:58.836 --> 0:19:01.996 I are twins, had just been born, and at the 0:19:02.036 --> 0:19:04.836 time our four year old was home from school, of course, 0:19:04.876 --> 0:19:08.036 and it was this moment when the babies were just crying. 0:19:08.156 --> 0:19:11.276 There was the home of the robot vacuum cleaner and 0:19:11.356 --> 0:19:16.356 oatmeal burning and Disney musicals blaring all the time, And 0:19:16.436 --> 0:19:18.956 that was one of those moments when I think, like 0:19:19.036 --> 0:19:21.476 many people in our society at that time, I was 0:19:21.556 --> 0:19:25.756 just overwhelmed with the noise and I realized how all 0:19:25.836 --> 0:19:28.116 the external noise going on, you know, as I was 0:19:28.156 --> 0:19:30.716 trying to be on conference calls amidst that whole all that, 0:19:30.796 --> 0:19:34.036 did you know all the external noise was creating an 0:19:34.076 --> 0:19:36.836 internal noise in me. It was this feedback loop I 0:19:36.916 --> 0:19:39.116 was finding between the noise in my ears and the 0:19:39.196 --> 0:19:43.076 noise inside. And my four year old daughter at that 0:19:43.156 --> 0:19:46.436 time had this little book that had a tiny little 0:19:46.476 --> 0:19:49.276 speaker in it that played the Frozen song let It Go, 0:19:49.516 --> 0:19:52.516 Let It Go from the Disney musical, and one day 0:19:52.516 --> 0:19:54.676 I was just listening to it, about to lose it, 0:19:55.156 --> 0:19:58.236 and I just listen to that message, Oh wait, let 0:19:58.276 --> 0:20:01.476 it go, let it Go. Maybe a Dina Menzel and 0:20:01.556 --> 0:20:05.116 her soaring mezzo soprano is trying to tell me something 0:20:05.196 --> 0:20:08.636 here that I can find ways to let go of 0:20:08.636 --> 0:20:12.996 the internal noise even if the external noise is overwhelming. 0:20:13.596 --> 0:20:15.836 And this seems to relate to another thing you suggest, 0:20:15.916 --> 0:20:18.956 which is this idea of making friends with noise. We 0:20:19.116 --> 0:20:21.316 maybe give us some strategies for how we can do that, 0:20:21.476 --> 0:20:23.956 especially when the noise is really not the kind of 0:20:23.956 --> 0:20:26.636 thing we want to be listening to. Yeah, we turn 0:20:26.716 --> 0:20:29.636 to the poet Padrick Otuma for this one. He says, 0:20:29.676 --> 0:20:32.916 this is actually some of the oldest technology out there, 0:20:33.036 --> 0:20:37.436 is that we say hello to the noise, we greet it. So, yeah, 0:20:37.436 --> 0:20:40.796 when noise does show up, to just notice what's arising. Again, 0:20:40.836 --> 0:20:43.156 this is kind of going back to that noticing, noticing 0:20:43.196 --> 0:20:45.716 what's happening in the body, taking it as that moment, 0:20:46.116 --> 0:20:48.996 maybe adding some humor. And then, of course the other 0:20:48.996 --> 0:20:52.956 thing is actually when that noise stops, to then throw 0:20:52.996 --> 0:20:57.956 your own little quiet party celebration acknowledgment, acknowledgement that noise 0:20:58.076 --> 0:21:01.316 is past, and feel some gratitude there. But making friends 0:21:01.316 --> 0:21:03.436 with noise can help. But it all kind of go 0:21:03.476 --> 0:21:05.556 a little better. And that's not again to say we 0:21:05.636 --> 0:21:09.316 want to create more or invited more, but noise happens, 0:21:09.876 --> 0:21:12.556 and so how can we greet it with grace? Justin 0:21:12.636 --> 0:21:15.116 you had a lovely story about this that involved a 0:21:15.196 --> 0:21:18.076 particular noise I hate, which was being on hold with 0:21:18.116 --> 0:21:20.836 some sort of awful customer service line and how you 0:21:20.836 --> 0:21:24.716 were able to greet the noise in a more welcoming way. Yeah, 0:21:24.716 --> 0:21:27.796 I was remembering being on hold for a couple hours 0:21:27.876 --> 0:21:31.316 for something in a customer service line with like particularly 0:21:31.356 --> 0:21:34.836 annoying music playing, and I was back to that interplay 0:21:34.916 --> 0:21:38.396 between the external noise and the internal noise. But having 0:21:38.436 --> 0:21:41.076 to listen to that sound was creating a kind of 0:21:41.716 --> 0:21:44.796 noise within me. And this is something that Jarvis J. 0:21:44.996 --> 0:21:49.116 Masters really has figured out how to navigate in prison, 0:21:49.556 --> 0:21:53.356 Like he quieted the noise of Death Row, where you 0:21:53.436 --> 0:21:57.996 just have these constant, constant low fi radios playing and 0:21:58.116 --> 0:22:01.276 screaming and hollering and then just kind of the fear 0:22:01.316 --> 0:22:03.596 of the place. He told us that he quieted the 0:22:03.676 --> 0:22:08.596 noise by quietening his responses to the noise. Flip side 0:22:08.596 --> 0:22:10.836 of this idea making friends with the noise is we 0:22:10.916 --> 0:22:13.516 also have to take advantage of times when there are 0:22:13.596 --> 0:22:16.876 no noise, right like when there's actually these little gifts 0:22:16.876 --> 0:22:19.716 and moments of silence, And so just to talk about 0:22:19.756 --> 0:22:22.236 how we can make good use of these tiny moments 0:22:22.236 --> 0:22:24.916 of silence, you know, it often comes back to this 0:22:25.236 --> 0:22:27.716 idea what we were talking about before, of like shifting 0:22:27.716 --> 0:22:31.596 our idea of happiness of well being. For me, it's 0:22:31.636 --> 0:22:33.236 like I'm in the car and all of a sudden, 0:22:33.236 --> 0:22:37.876 the music stops streaming, and sometimes I like instinctively freak out. 0:22:37.916 --> 0:22:39.796 I'm just like, oh my god, the music stopped or 0:22:39.836 --> 0:22:43.636 the podcast stops streaming. What happened? But it's like, can 0:22:43.676 --> 0:22:47.516 we take a moment and relax into that sudden quiet, 0:22:47.756 --> 0:22:50.276 or maybe even we're stuck at the post office in line. 0:22:50.756 --> 0:22:53.596 It's really frustrating. And sure, you know, maybe we have 0:22:53.596 --> 0:22:56.676 other things we need to do, and that's legit, that's real. 0:22:57.236 --> 0:23:00.436 But it's like, can we take these little inconveniences like 0:23:00.516 --> 0:23:03.596 the podcast stops streaming, or we're stuck in line at 0:23:03.596 --> 0:23:06.716 the post office, and rather than seeing it as a 0:23:06.756 --> 0:23:10.076 burden or even a cause of stress, can we shift 0:23:10.116 --> 0:23:12.756 our orientation to see it as a little gift, a 0:23:12.796 --> 0:23:16.076 little pocket of silence in our lives. This was a 0:23:16.116 --> 0:23:18.716