WEBVTT - The Science of Thulsa Doom, Part 2 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:04.960 Welcome Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of I 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:13.960 Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, you welcome to Stuff 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:16.000 to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:18.880 I'm Joe McCormick, and we're back to talk snakes. It's 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:23.480 snake talk. That's right. We're continuing this month's movie episode 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:26.560 and now it's episodes because we you you got to 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:28.720 pick the movie this time. You pick Conan the Barbarian. 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:30.840 Hadn't seen it in a while. I was wondering how 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:33.320 it held up, and you know, it kind of did, 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:36.960 it kind of didn't. But it's it's definitely worth talking about. 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:39.440 But one of the key centerpieces in this film is 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:44.159 the cult of set thulsa dooms religion. I mean, he 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:47.400 seems into the branding, even in the earlier portions of 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:50.120 the film when he's just a warrior. Yeah, that's a 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:52.640 little confusing, because the whole thing is that, like James 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:54.520 Earl Jones, he was like once I was a young 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:56.680 man and I was just a war lord running around 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.120 raiding villages. You know, the sorry I killed your parents 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:00.960 and not that's a yeah. I don't think he ever 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:03.280 said he was no. He didn't say no. In fact, 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:05.959 he says, Dakona, and he's like, got Arnold Schwartzendinger on 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:08.800 the floor. He's like, when when I destroyed your village, 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:14.480 I made you You're welcome. Yeah, pretty much. Uh. But 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:17.440 but then later in the film he's he's like, oh, 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:19.480 I don't do that anymore. Now I'm just a regular 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:23.000 cult leader. But in both cases he's carrying the symbol 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:25.520 of his cult even though he's not a cult leader yet. 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:28.360 In in the earlier part, and the symbol of his cult, 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:31.279 which is referred to in the movie as the Cult 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:34.039 of set or the Temple of set Uh. And in 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:37.000 the last episode we discussed the real ancient Egyptian not 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:39.600 well maybe not real, but the real mythology of the 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:42.960 ancient Egyptian god Set or Seth, and how he is 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:46.160 very different than the set represented in the film. But 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:48.400 the Cult of set in the film has the symbol 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:51.520 of the two headed snake with with the two heads 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:54.400 facing off against each other. Right, I mean, maybe part 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:56.880 of it is that just even though his approach to 0:01:56.960 --> 0:01:59.400 life changed a little bit, he just always had great branding, 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.600 always loves snakes, or certainly he just maybe just took 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:05.160 up the the the emblem at some point there was 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:08.040 a pre existing cult of Set. I mean certainly that 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:11.040 would if you're creating a cult leader. I mean, some 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:16.480 cult leaders create their faith wholesale, uh, from from new parts. 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:18.880 But for the most part, for the most part, they're 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:22.280 depending on something that came before and just inserting themselves 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:24.760 into it. That's exactly right. I mean, in fact, I 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:27.760 can scarcely think of a cult that doesn't draw on 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:32.000 some existing mythology. I mean, uh, you think about the 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:34.520 Heaven's Gate cult. I mean that was in a large 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:38.560 part based on like UFO mythology and existing Christianity. Even 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:41.280 if you look at like the Raylians and Rileyans, one 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:44.960 of the the UFO religions, they're the guy who found it, 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:47.160 has this whole book going through like the books of 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:49.640 the Bible and all this talking about how it's actually 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:53.120 all about alien encounters and alien technology. It's basically an 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:57.840 ancient aliens religion. So the emblem for the Temple of 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:00.600 Set in this film has this this really cool logo 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:03.880 actually that it's like there are two different versions of it. 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:05.880 You kind of see one is like on the like 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:08.360 the staffs and the armor that they carry, and then 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:13.000 there's this like simple simplified logo, but it's a snake 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:15.760 with two heads as a head on each end, like 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.280 a like the head of the snake is a snakehead 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:20.680 and the tail of the snake is a snakehead, and 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:23.280 they're they're rising against each other, and in the background 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:25.320 there is a son And in fact it's a plot 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:28.280 point in the film because Conan and his friends go 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:31.680 around looking for Falsa Doom played by James Earl Jones 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:34.200 by asking about this symbol. It's like, have you seen 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:38.000 this symbol anywhere? That's how they they initially connect with him. 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:40.640 So I should kind of surprise, as a surprise to 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:42.800 nobody that the idea of a snake with a head 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:45.840 on each end pre dates this film, that you know 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:48.200 that this this is something that we can go back 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:52.360 in time and we can find examples of in uh 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:55.520 in the human use of symbols. Right now, you might 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:57.960 be thinking about other existing snake symbols that are a 0:03:57.960 --> 0:03:59.839 little bit different. You might be thinking about the orb 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:03.120 corros where a snake is swallowing its own tail, But 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:07.000 that's different than two snake heads facing each other, right though, 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:09.480 I mean in Theora Boruss defense we usually don't see 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:11.160 the tail because it's in his mouth. Who's to say 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:13.240 that wasn't a hat on there? But yeah, the the 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:17.359 or a Borus, the world serpent, the mid guard storm, Um, 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:20.960 it's uh. It is yet depicted as the snake consuming itself. 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:23.040 On the other hand, one that is very similar but 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:25.600 isn't quite the same thing does have snakeheads facing each 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:29.680 other would be the Caducius. This is this is like 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:33.360 the staff with the snakes staff of hers. Yeah. Yeah, 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:36.719 So what we're talking about here is the the amphis 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:40.000 beina and it's a it's a name that's derived from 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:43.440 the Greek to go both ways because of the idea 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:45.599 is that it's a snake that can move forwards or 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:48.039 backwards with ease. The one thing I've read is that 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:50.840 snakes that just have one normal head and a normal 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:54.120 tail can sometimes slither backwards. Like I was reading a 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.280 book about how the author observed that coral snakes seem 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:00.440 to be able to slither backwards just fine. Right, And 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:02.560 so I mean, of course, in all of this you're talking, 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:05.320 we're dealing with something on one level, there's the symbolism 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:08.240 level of it, right, Like what does the idea of 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:11.320 a snake with two heads mean, how does it? What 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.240 does it? How does it function in the human mind? 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:16.960 But then also there is a certain degree of just 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:21.799 like weird tales about what snakes look like. So, according 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:25.040 to Carol Rose, the folklorist, his books always come back 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:27.520 to She she has a nice write up about it 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:30.000 in one of her monster books, and she points out 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:32.280 that the Greek writer Lucan described it as a desert 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:36.240 creature of North Africa. Um and um, and of course 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:38.040 as well, we'll we'll see plenty of the Elder of 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:42.480 course also wrote about it. But I also was reading 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:46.960 from a article Stalking the Emphis Beena by Sydney J. 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:53.640 Levy from the Journal of Consumer Research. That but yeah, 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:57.919 but that mentions that the this particular symbol quote was 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:02.359 probably intended to express the horror and anguish associated with 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:07.680 ambivalent situations. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that. Um, 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:11.000 it certainly goes with a kind of classic archetype of 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:14.240 of psychodynamics, right, the idea that like this might not 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:17.160 be the most correct way of thinking about the mind. Now, 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:19.680 but if you go back to Freudian thought, you know, 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:24.320 he often seemed to emphasize that major problems in the mind. 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:27.680 The psychoses and things were caused by states of ambivalence 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:31.520 where you had, you know, conflicting desires or conflicting tendencies 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.040 that couldn't be resolved. Should I stay or should I go? 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:37.000 I don't know. I'm of two snakes on the man. H. 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:39.640 So this particular beast also shows up in a lot 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:43.440 of medieval beast theories with as a winged creature with 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:46.360 two legs at it as well. Uh, sometimes it's said 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:48.320 that it can roll like a hoop snake, a hoop 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:50.360 snake being kind of a form of an aura borous 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:54.000 that's less, less concerned with what happens if a snake 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:56.960 consumes itself. How does this house this play out in 0:06:56.960 --> 0:07:00.240 my mind? Versus what if a snake just at its 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:02.320 own tail and then rolled like a wheel down a 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:04.560 down a hill. Now this is a mythical creature, no 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:08.120 real creature, though there is a real wheel spider. Yeah, yeah, 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:11.440 there are some real rolling creatures, but but not quite 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:15.840 like a snake. Um Plenty of Here's what Plenty had 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:19.440 to say about the the amphisbina in the Natural History 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:22.400 Glad Plenty was on it. The amphisbina has a twin 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.120 head that is one at the tail end as well 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:27.680 as though it were not enough for poison to be 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:30.960 poured out of one mount, because that's another aspect of 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:32.760 it is is that the creature is supposed to be 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:37.040 like any mythic serpent. It's highly venomous, and so maybe 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:39.120 the ideas it's just so venomous that one head is 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:42.200 not enough. It needs two heads for all that venom. Uh. 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:45.120 Then likewise, there their accounts of how you can use 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:49.360 its dried skin to say, treat rheumatism. Uh. So there's 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:51.480 you know, there are all these different stories about it, 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:53.720 and it reminds me a lot of the of some 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:57.600 of the things we're discussing about the bassilisk. Now Rose 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:01.679 writes that while exaggerated, she thinks it was likely based 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:05.240 on some real venomous reptile in the Libyan desert, perhaps 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:08.600 one that was capable of slithering in either direction, which, 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.960 as you said, that's some real snakes. Not that impressive. 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:15.000 But if you didn't know that, it's kind of like 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:16.760 if you don't know that horses can lay down, and 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.559 then you see one laying down, sleeping and you're like, whoa. 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:22.160 Then you start reporting you're gonna call it plenty immediately. 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:24.720 I didn't tell him or the other possibilities that is 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:27.360 that it's a snake that seemed to raise its tail 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:30.320 a tail like a head when it was threatened. And 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:32.960 we'll come back to to that because there are some 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:36.920 potential examples of that for sure. Then there. You know, 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:40.320 if we look outside of Western traditions, we also see 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:44.480 double headed serpents in the Aztec tradition. Yeah, with a 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.839 with a you know, there's a particularly interesting fifteenth or 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:52.240 sixteenth century turquoise example that I'm sure everyone's seeing photos of. 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:54.920 There's a particularly a nice example of this in the 0:08:54.920 --> 0:09:00.920 British Museum. Uh. This this turquoise uh serpent creature uh 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:04.240 with this like almost bear like head on on either end. 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:08.960 And it's uncertain exactly what it's depicting. So, you know, 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:11.400 the the idea maybe that this is just representing that 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:14.080 serpentine rebirth that we've talked about, So this is not 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:17.120 so much a snake with two heads, but that it's 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:21.000 a snake emerging from itself from its skin. It also 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.880 may be well be related to quetzal codal, which we 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:28.680 we did an episode on talking about the importance of 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:35.120 the plumed serpent in in meso American religion. And uh, 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:37.320 and we should also point out that that particular god 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:40.400 like there there's a snake god that is certainly far 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:44.679 removed from anything Falsa Doom represents no thoroughly nondo me 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:49.120 And then uh, I also read that it's it's possible 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:52.520 that this is not like clearly maybe an Aztec creation, 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:54.720 but maybe it's a creation of the mix the mixed 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:58.040 tech people. UM, so you're you're ultimately going with with 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:01.640 perhaps several different degrees of separate between the people who 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:04.800 originally um dreamed up and created this work of art 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:08.520 versus those certainly who now possess it. So obviously the 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:13.600 next question is are there two headed snakes in real life? Oh? Yes, yeah, 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:16.480 the answer is clearly yes. Two headed snakes of a 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:20.280 certain kind I will say, absolutely do exist and are 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:24.440 pretty regularly captured or breading captivity. It seems like maybe 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:27.880 once every couple of years, herpetologists come across one new 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:30.560 and interesting case of this that blows up in the media. 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:33.240 I think they probably get discovered more oftense, just only 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:37.560 sometimes do they really catch fire on the internet. But yes, 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:41.680 there are pretty frequently cases of two headed snakes known 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:45.360 as diecephalic or polycephalic, meaning you know, two heads or 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:49.400 many heads from species like ladder snakes, copper heads, king 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:52.839 snakes I've read about in all those species and others, 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.800 and these snakes generally have two heads, both growing from 0:10:56.880 --> 0:11:00.440 the neck end of the body. There is no species 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:03.960 of snake that is regularly like this. Rather, this is 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:07.440 like this is not an adaptation or evolutionary change. It's 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.880 a developmental anomaly. It occurs the same way that most 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:14.880 other conjoined twins do when an embryo in in utero 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:18.040 splits into twins, but it doesn't split all the way, 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:21.720 leading to embryos that continue to develop while remaining attached 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:23.880 in some way. That's right, And if if you want 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:27.880 some more information on conjoined twins, uh, we we actually 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:31.480 discussed this in our Halloween episode whatever Halloween episodes last year, 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:34.520 the Tales from the Crypt episode, because of course there's 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:36.319 a Tales from the Crypt episode. There's more than one 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.640 actually that involves that in an insensitive manner, but so 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:43.040 we we we use that episode as an excuse to like, 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:46.920 all right, let's let's put aside the trash because let's 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:50.199 face the tales in the crypt is ultimately a trashy show. 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:52.360 But let's set all that aside and discuss, like, you know, 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:54.600 what the actual science is. And so we went through 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:58.000 all the various forms that occur, and so, yeah, this 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:00.400 this occurs in all kinds of animals and in cases 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:03.319 I've read about. What happens with snakes is you've got 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:06.600 two heads that are side by side, both extending from 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:10.080 the neck at different um. Sometimes there will be different 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:14.559 amounts of like length of the body that that are separated. 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:17.240 Sometimes the heads are very close to each other. Sometimes 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:21.000 they've got significant amounts of of separate neck, but they 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:25.400 share connections, usually to the top of the elementary canal. Um. 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.160 But the question would be here, what about a snake 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:30.840 with a head on both ends of the length of 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:33.800 the body, like in Thulsa Dooms standard for the cult 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.400 of set Could there be a snake that's got a 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:39.720 head for a tail? Well, we already mentioned that plenty 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:43.720 of the elder Um discussed one, and uh, you know, 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:45.880 we don't have plenty with us any any longer, but 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.400 we do have the Daily mail, and uh, and so 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:51.640 I was I was looking around, you know, for doing 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:54.440 various searches for two headed snakes, and I found an 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:58.880 article from September twenty third, two thousand twelve by Daily 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:02.760 Mail reporter titled they Both Seemed to Control It. Family 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:05.480 finds snake with two heads, one on each end of 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:09.000 its body. And so this all seemed to have happened 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:12.480 in South Carolina, and it was originally reported by Fox 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:18.400 Carolina presumably It's Fantastic Beasts news Beat newsdesk, and it 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:21.160 was it was identified by the local high school's biology 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.960 department as a rough earth snake. Uh. And you look 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:28.840 at these pictures, they're not, you know, super clear. Um, 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:31.720 but there was video. There was video at some point, 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:35.960 but the video I couldn't find actually alright good because 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:38.600 the video footage I found had been removed, as as 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:40.680 had the like I was getting a four or four 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:45.719 on the original Fox reporting. But uh, the article was 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.600 was pretty fun. My favorite line from it was quote, 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:52.160 but while the snake pulls itself in opposite directions, young 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:55.640 Savannah and Preston are also pulled in different directions on 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:58.360 what to name the snake. That's right. One of them 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:00.480 wanted to name it Billy Bob and the other said 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:06.280 Oreo right, um, uh yeah. I was looking for more 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:09.040 on this story to see to try to dig underneath 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.040 like the the Daily Mail article, and I couldn't. I 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:14.560 couldn't get under it. I don't understand why there wasn't 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:16.600 more follow up. I mean, I suspect it's because the 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.240 snake died and everyone was like, oh no, I'm sad 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:21.960 and let's move on with it. But or because the 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:24.880 original reporting might have been mistaken. That's the other. Yeah, 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:28.080 we just don't We don't know ultimately. Yeah. So even 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:30.720 though there's video, I mean I did watch video, and 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:32.800 it's a small snake, but they've got it in like 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:36.160 a little igloo cooler and it's slithering around and it 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:38.960 has some kind of it wasn't super high definition, but 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:41.800 it's got something on its tail. It looks sort of 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:45.320 head shaped. Even though I saw some video, I'm still 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:49.640 a little bit skeptical. I wonder if what's being interpreted 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.320 as a head on the tail end of the snake 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:55.440 is not really ahead. Yeah, I mean that's that's a 0:14:55.520 --> 0:15:00.160 huge possibility. Uh yeah. So just to as as back 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:02.880 up for that as that being a possibility, I was 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:04.920 looking at a book from J h U Press two 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:08.520 thousand eighteen called American Snakes by Sean P. Graham. Uh. 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:10.440 And just as a side note before we get to 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:12.920 the thing that I went to this book for. As 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:15.320 a side note, there's a part I found where the 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:20.200 author is describing strange defense strategies that snakes employ. Uh. 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:24.320 And this unrelated one is called cloacle popping. Oh okay, 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:26.960 So sometimes have you read about this? No, I mean, 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:29.320 if you tell, if you'd asked me what cloacle popping was, 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.760 I would assume it's like the hottest new dance number 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:36.640 that I'm not familiar with. So sometimes when threatened, Uh, 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:40.480 some types of snakes will rapidly turn their cloaca inside out. 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:44.200 The cloaca is the common hole at the rear of 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:49.120 the body that's used for urinary tract, digestive tract, and 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:52.480 reproductive tract. So it's it's a common sort of hole 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.520 back there that takes care of all the cummings and 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:58.520 goings at the back side of the body. So when 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:01.800 these snakes get captured or handled or encounter some kind 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:06.240 of menace, they will sort of suddenly vigorously poop out 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:09.400 part of their own rectum. Basically, it's not a rectum. 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:14.120 It's cloaca, which produces these popping or squishing sounds which 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:17.280 are vaguely audible to us. Uh. It's not known what 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.480 adaptive purpose, if any of this has. But there's your 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:24.320 fact of the day, chloecal pot there, Okay. But also 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:27.560 the reason I was reading about this is that I 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:29.840 was looking for examples, and this is absolutely true that 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:34.920 some snake species have a defensive strategy that's known as automimicry, 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:39.240 which involves having a tail that looks like a second head. 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:43.040 And examples of this include the rubber boa, which can 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:46.160 use its tail as a decoy head if it's attacked. 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:48.840 Like if this snake is attacked, if you've seen pictures 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:50.920 of the rubber boa, you might have seen it not 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:53.880 just coiled, but sort of tied up in itself like 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:57.280 a not it'll you know, be a jumble, and while 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.200 it's in this tangle, it will raise its tail all 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:02.920 up as if it were raising its head up, and 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:06.680 allow whatever is attacking it to attack its tail, while 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.480 you know, the real head is defended under the coiled 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:12.800 body and perhaps searching for an escape route. Right. And 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:15.119 so in this it has a lot in common with 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:17.680 various other animals where the ideas of a predator is 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:21.439 going to attack, you draw their attack away from them. 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:25.040 The more sensitive parts of your anatomy draw them away 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:27.400 from them from like your brain or your Torso get 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:29.960 them towards the tail. There are some creatures that even 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:33.240 practice something that's known as autotomy, where they will like 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:36.199 release their tail sort of as a distraction or a 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:39.600 gift to the predator while the rest of them can escape. Yeah. 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:42.800 I encountered this on a nature path over the weekend. 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:46.560 I was walking with my son and lo and behold, 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:48.919 there in the path is we see a little lizard 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:53.080 tail still moving, still flopping back and forth, no sign 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:55.480 of the of its former owner. And so we were 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:58.960 trying to decide, well, what happened here? Did did the 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:03.240 lizard you know, an attempt to prevent predation and it 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:06.479 didn't work? Or did it work? And it's ever all 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:09.000 the parties have gone their separate ways. Uh. Yeah, it's 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:12.920 a fascinating survival adaptation. And there I believe there is 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:14.720 an episode of stuff to blow your mind in the 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:17.720 vault about it. Yeah. I think we did a two 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:23.000 parter about tails. Long We talked about the scorpion scorpion autonomy, Yeah, 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:25.360 where its tail will come off, But then it can't 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.120 live much longer after that because it can't poop. That's right, 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:31.199 the tail or, one of the lost segments of the 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:35.720 tail contained the scorpion anus, and therefore it can never 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:40.479 poop again. Which I mean, as far as scorpion timelines get, 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.159 it's probably not that bad. But that's the world of scorpions. 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:45.080 Let's get back to the world. How do you know 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:49.879 how bad it is I speak for the scorpions, Well, 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:52.680 I mean never having to poop again. I can just imagine, Yeah, 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:55.560 there's gonna be there's gonna be some huge downsides to that, 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:58.480 but then there are certain upsides, namely not having to 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:00.840 poop again. Okay, so I want to be clear. I 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:03.760 want to try to be humble about what's going on 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:08.240 with the with the supposed two headed, you know, head 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:11.080 on the tail snake here. I don't know that what's 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:14.000 going on here is like a mistaken case of automimicry. 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:17.600 I I just will say that I'm not yet convinced 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:19.600 that this is really a snake with a head on 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:22.240 both ends. It seems a little hard for me to 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:26.400 imagine exactly how that happens, Like, where is the cloaca 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:29.440 for one thing, Is it in the middle of the snake? Well, 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:32.440 the two heads go out from each side. All the snakes, 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:36.040 all the snakes where we have confirmed accounts that, like 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:38.960 a really well documented that I could find are where 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:43.080 the heads appear at the same end. And so I'm yeah, 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:46.120 I'm I'm skeptical about this. I am not yet convinced 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:49.840 that this is for real. Yeah, I definitely would love 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:53.560 to see more evidence. Um, be it just visual evidence 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:56.359 of this particular snake or just more people saying oh yeah, 0:19:56.359 --> 0:19:58.000 Like I would love to hear from the the actual 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:01.680 uh science teacher who resumably weigh in on this. Oh yeah, 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:03.840 if you've seen this thing up close and you're listening 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:07.159 now get in touch. Yeah. And likewise, I feel like 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:09.879 the town that this occurred in, like this should be 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.320 if this was real, this snake should be like the 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:16.800 mascot for the city at this point. Um, so yeah, 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:21.680 talking pulling itself into uh. But but anyway, just to 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:26.000 get back to the broader subject of polycephaly or having 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:30.639 two heads in the serpent world, Um, it's rare, but 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:34.080 it does seem to occur. It seems to occur more 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:36.240 in the snake world, but it's really hard to say 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:39.679 for sure because such specimens they tend to die fast 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:42.800 in the wild. Yeah, I've seen it speculated, but not 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:45.520 known for sure that it happens more often in snakes 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:48.639 in captivity than it does in wild snakes. But we 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:50.960 that's not something that's know and it's just kind of 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:54.119 a possibility. I found a two thousand twelve paper in 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:58.600 the Bulletin of the Chicago or Herpetological Society titled two 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:01.959 headed Snakes Make high Mate It's Pets by Van Walock, 0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:05.000 and the author points out that there was a nineteen 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:07.920 thirty seven book by an individual by the name of 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:11.120 Cunningham on the subject of two headed snakes, and that 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:14.800 book catalog nine and fifty cases in one d and 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:19.280 sixty nine species from ninety four genera and um. The 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:23.520 author here writes that currently, and this is two thousand twelve, currently, uh, 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:27.560 there were one thousand fifty known cases one species in 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:30.280 a hundred and three genera, and Van Wallack drove home 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:32.520 that most of them end up just drowning in the egg, 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:35.280