WEBVTT - Austrian Economics, Human Action, Bitcoin Security | Stephan Livera 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:15.840 All right, everyone, welcome to the episode of the Market 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:18.160 Disruptors Show, and today I'm joined by Stephan Lavera. He 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:20.760 is the host of the Stephan Lavera podcast and he's 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:23.360 also the co founder of Ministry of Nodes, and we're 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:25.159 going to dive into that today. I'm excited to have 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:27.360 you on, Stephan, thanks so much for joining. Well, thanks 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.920 for inviting me, Mark, Yeah, good so um. Yeah, So 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:32.880 I've been I've been listening to your stuff for quite 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:35.200 a while and man, you put out so much good 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:37.360 content for so long. So I'm happy to have you 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:39.360 on and dive into kind of this this stuff. And 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:41.640 I want to start, well, I guess let's start in 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:44.199 the beginning. And you know, as I said, I've been 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:45.840 following you for a long time, a lot of people 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:47.519 maybe don't know, so just give us a little bit 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:49.839 of a background on what you've been doing and what 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:54.360 you're working on. Yeah. Sure. So I am mostly known 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:56.480 as a bitcoin podcast, so I interview many of the 0:00:56.560 --> 0:00:59.720 lading lots in the bitcoin world and also Australian economics, 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:03.080 and so I take an approach where I try to 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:06.400 interview people who are quite technical themselves, but then try 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:09.160 to break that down for people into the at a 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:12.399 level that let's say, the intelligent layman can understand. And 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:15.680 obviously it's a bitcoin, you know, focused show, but I 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:18.880 try to work in certain economic aspects of it as well, 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:23.120 because I think you can't understand bitcoin without meshing a 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:26.479 good understanding of the economics and the technology together. And 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:29.200 so my show is one of the well known bitcoin 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:32.280 specific shows in the space, and I think many people 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:36.319 who are themselves bitcoin builders and so on our listeners 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:39.040 as well of the show. So that's probably the main 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:41.600 thing I'm known for. And then the other project I 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:44.120 have is Ministry of Nerds, which is think of it 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:46.839 like if the podcast is for interviews with leading people 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:49.240 in the space, Ministry of Nerds is me and my 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:52.480 co founder Katan. It's our effits to try to put 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:54.520 some of these things into practice for people and give 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:58.200 them guides and you know, exact step by step. Here's 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:00.200 what you do, Here's how you do it. Here how 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:04.240 you take back your financial self sovereignty. Yeah great, and 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:06.040 we definitely need that, and so I want to dive 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:09.400 into that song. But before we do it, seems like, 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:12.120 as you said, right, you've talked about some Austrian econ 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:13.840 and it seemed like you were really focused on that 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:15.360 and it's kind of shifted a little bit, but I 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:17.639 want to dive into that first. So I know you've 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:21.600 talked a lot about Austrian economics, and so you know, 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:25.040 I spend my time talking about why bitcoin is important, 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:26.760 and so obviously I spend a lot of time on 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:30.919 the economic side, the philosophy side, the politics side, um, 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:34.600 And it seems like Austrian economics kind of encompasses most 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:38.639 of that. So tell me, I guess how you see 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:43.079 that economic philosophy. Um. Hey, just a real quick interruption 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.160 to let you know that this video is brought to 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:47.720 you add free by block Fire. Now they're giving you 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:50.600 the ability to hodle your bitcoin and your crypto as 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:52.720 it goes up in value, and at the same time, 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.400 you can earn high yielding interest on it, so you 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:58.320 can basically hold it for all the upside potential and 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:00.240 then you can make cash flow off of it at 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:04.280 the exact same time. Now, opening accounts super fast, super simple, 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:06.919 And they've offered to give me up the two fifty 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:08.840 dollars for every sign up, but I told them, you 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:10.880 know what, let's give it back to you, So you 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:13.440 can now go and you can get the two fifty 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:15.519 dollars whenever you set up your account, and always to 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:18.040 do is just check the link in the description for details, 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:20.519 set up an account super quick and easy and turn 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:23.160 up to two and fifty dollars brought to you by 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:26.040 block fire. So check them out as as opposed to 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:28.680 kind of what we have now and why that system 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:34.160 you think might be better? Right, So I came from 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:37.120 I come from that perspective in terms of an Austrian 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:40.800 economic analysis of the world, and I guess it informs 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:43.120 my worldview and that is part of I inject that 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:45.640 into my interviews and people I interview. So in terms 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:48.800 of what's different about the Austrian perspective versus let's say 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:54.640 the current mainstream perspective is more like Austrians see no 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:57.720 role for central banking, as in no productive role for 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:02.920 central banking. It's seen as like a political um outgrowth 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:06.960 of the state, and that it can cause all kinds 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:09.400 of problems in the market, which we call it's referred 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:11.720 to as the boom bust cycle or also known as 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:15.800 Austrian business cycle theory. So Austrian economists tend to be 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:18.400 you know, they are more free markets. They believe in 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.160 free market capitalism. They believe and they talk more about 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:24.400 this idea of bottom up spontaneous order, right, And if 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:26.560 we're going to get a bit more technical, it's more 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:31.720 like it's really looking specifically at the choices and actions 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.560 that humans make and how can you deduce them. So 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:37.440 the methods specifically is kind of more like think a 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:41.640 bit more like logically deducing certain truths and understanding and 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:45.440 applying those into the into the real world and trying 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:47.560 to use that to understand a little bit better what's 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:49.760 going on now in practice. What does that mean? It 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:56.279 means anti central bank, anti fet money, generally, pro free market, generally, 0:04:56.600 --> 0:05:02.119 looking for ways to articulate and explain why we should 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:08.280 have free trade, we should encourage, uh, the productivity and 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:12.839 production through accumulation of capital, as opposed to maybe a 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:16.320 more Kinesian point of view, which is more like consumption first, 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:19.960 whereas in Austrian might tend to focus a little bit 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:23.000 more on this idea that no, you need to save 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:25.760 and then be able to produce more and then you 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:30.039 can consume more. So I guess that hopefully that helps. Yeah, 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:32.280 you said something that probably put a whole bunch of 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:34.920 people on their head. And you kind of came straight 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.760 out and you said that no central banks. And then 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:40.320 then you said something that even went a little bit 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:42.800 further that probably really threw people off, and you said 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:47.479 that central banks cause boom and bus cycles. But it 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:51.960 seems that the common belief today is that it's free 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:55.560 market capitalism it causes booms and bus cycles. So do 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:58.719 you want to explain that? Yeah, sure, that's a great question. 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:01.960 And so I think the Austrians, when you read them, 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:06.000 it's think of it like this. We would we should 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:09.440 expect to see just in normal capitalism, some businesses growing 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:12.359 and some failing, just as normal as you would expect. 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:15.000 That's just normal. But why is it that we see 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:17.840 a cluster of errors in a certain area over time 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:20.680 and so historically, whether that's the dot com bubble or 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.400 whether it's you know, housing bubble or et cetera, why 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:25.919 is it that we see that? And it's actually that 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:28.880 there's there's a reason, there's an underlying cause for that. Now, 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:31.600 if you listen to the mainstream media, they might say 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:33.640 something like, oh see, it's just you know, it just 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:36.160 comes and goes. It's like seasons. It's it's it's it's 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:37.680 just going to be with us for all the time, 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:39.200 and we just have to deal with it. And the 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:41.800 central bank needs to step in and manage it, and 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:44.280 they need to try to have stable prices and look 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:47.880 after the employment rate and these kinds of things, where 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:50.400 from an Austrian perspective is to try and look back 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:53.279 and wait a minute, what's the cause of that, Try 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:56.400 and trace back what is the underlying cause of this? 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:00.400 And so in the Austrian view, it's more like hold on. 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:05.279 It's actually credit expansion that drives all of this stuff. 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:10.160 So put simply, government interventions such as the existence of 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:12.400 the central bank, the lender of last resort, some of 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:16.360 these things. They push the interest rate, they artificially depress 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:19.600 it will be below what it would be in a 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:24.160 true free market. And so in that sense, it's causes 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:26.720 people to get the wrong signal. Right, So prices are 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:29.320 like a signal, they're like an information. They're like saying, hey, 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:32.200 come here, use this product, use these resources because there's 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:35.200 a profit opportunity. And if there's a profit opportunity, you're 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:38.160 being productive for the rest of society's that's kind of 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:41.880 one way to think of it. And so central banking 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:46.800 is viewed as like a government intervention into capitalism rather 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:51.560 than being a function of capitalism. And so in that view, 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:57.680 it's more like central banking helps enable government to kind 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:01.960 of take more command over the economy, and so it 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:06.240 essentially drives this boom and bust cycle because a lot 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:09.200 of entrepreneurs get given the wrong signal. In some sense, 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:11.880 it's like that, it's like the markets signals have been 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:15.800 messed with, and in doing so, all these entrepreneurs run 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:18.000 into a certain area. And you know, for the last 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:20.040 forty or fifty years or whatever, it's been a lot 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:21.920 of that has been property. Right, think how many people 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:26.680 are property entrepreneurs? Well, it's not clear that that is 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:30.760 actually like that that is what would have happened if 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:33.240 we were living under a fully free market with zero 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:38.720 government central bank. And so I think that is essentially 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:41.640 coming around to this idea that if it weren't for 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:45.040 government central banking, we would not see this boom and 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:47.599 bust cycle that we have seen every whatever six or 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:52.240 seven years historically. Yeah, yeah, I think you know part 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:54.719 of it. These are complex subjects to understand because you 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:56.720 have to kind of have disciplines in several areas. And 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:59.600 so you mentioned earlier, like you know, human action, and 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:01.680 so like you kind of have to understand like human 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:05.719 motivation and human action in that human intent, because as 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:08.240 you said, it is a little bit like cycles, right, 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:10.800 cycles do come and go. I love vanilla ice cream, 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:12.600 and all of a sudden, I want chocolate. I don't 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:14.800 know why I want chocolate, I just do. And so 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:17.319 we're like, we're gonna want different things, and so there 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:20.240 are going to be booms and bus and that's just natural. 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:23.600 Some businesses starting, some fail. But I think to your point, 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:27.080 they're creating this artificial demand which forces everybody or or 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:30.040 entices everyone into certain sectors, which caused them to get 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:34.040 way bigger and then crash, which leads to bigger booms 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:36.400 and busses. That kind of what you're saying. Yes, that's 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:40.160 a great way to put it. Yeah, and uh, and 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:42.920 it's complex. But at the same time, it seems like 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:45.240 the FED tries to make it so complex that we 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:47.160 don't understand and that we have to depend on them, 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:49.200 when really it, as you said, if you break it 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:54.080 down into those principles, it's actually pretty easy to understand. Um. 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:58.400 It seems like what about as an economic principle, it 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:02.440 seems like the FED also is a way that maybe 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:05.959 the the elite use it to transfer wealth as opposed 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:08.839 and control as opposed to really trying to free the system. 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:11.680 Where is as Austrian kind of I guess, as you said, 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.040 leads to more free market. I mean, there's are a 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.760 big difference between like free and captured controlled in those 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:21.520 two systems. Absolutely, So the way an Austrian would most 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:26.400 Austrian economists would view what's gone on over this last 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:29.600 century or so is essentially that the state keeps expanding 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:31.680 and that what happens. And this is a bit where 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:33.360 this is where it gets a little bit more confusing, 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:36.960 because when people look at what we've had, they say, oh, look, 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:39.880 look the big businesses are in bed with the government. 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:44.280 And in some sense Austrians agree with that because they're saying, 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:48.400 what we want really is less government intervention. But really 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:52.160 what happens in practice nowadays is more like big business 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:55.880 will lobby with the government and the incentives just kind 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:59.000 of work for them to try to set up a 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:03.680 system that cacoon themselves from outside competition. And so even 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:05.560 things like you know, the Federal Reserve and so on. 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:10.960 It often ends up being that the existing big players, 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:14.280 once they've gotten big, they try to lobby the government 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:17.000 and they will try to say hey, oh and and 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:20.040 they might cauch it in very noble sounding language. They 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:22.880 might say like, oh, look, um, it would be very 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:27.200 unsafe to not have regulation on this industry. So let's 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:30.120 have regulation on this industry. But here's what we're gonna do. 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:33.920 We're gonna make the regulation kind of fit just around 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:35.960 me and make a nice little cocoon around me so 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:39.360 that I can entrench myself against new competitors. Yeah. And 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:42.920 in some sense, that happens in many industries, and banking 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:45.720 is just one of them. Yeah. Yeah, it seems like 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:50.000 regulations are always meant to kind of entrench those positions. Um, 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:53.040 I've seen it firsthand. I was. I was really involved 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:55.320 in the early days of the internet, and I remember, 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.080 I forget what it was called. Now, all these bills, 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:00.400 they're bad, but they have these good sounding aims. And 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:03.600 it was a bill that Amazon had put forth saying 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:07.360 that in the United States, if you were selling products online, 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:09.240 you didn't have to collect sales tax to every single 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:11.280 jurisdiction that you were selling to there, there'll be no 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:13.560 way to do that. And so they put this bill 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:16.439 and it was like the Fair Tax Collection Act or 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:18.480 something like that, and of course Amazon is the one 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:19.959 that pushed it, and they said everyone had to start 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:22.120 collecting tax but of course the small guy there's no 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:25.319 way they could do that. Only Amazon could do that. 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:27.439 And so we see that kind of that. That kind 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:30.000 of thing happened all the time. But it seems like 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:33.920 it seems like we've moved now to where everybody wants 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:36.800 to have like this free or actually say this this 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:43.199 risk free, this safe society where everybody succeeds, and Austrian 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:46.559 is kind of like it's free, but it's not safe. 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:49.080 And so I think it looks like you kind of 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:50.840 have to have this trade offs and it seems like 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:55.360 more people are opting for safety over freedom at this point. 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:59.480 Is that what you're seeing? Absolutely, and I I am 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.760 soly in the camp where I guess put simply, yeah, 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:06.200 I value freedom over safety is um if you will. Now. 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:09.600 I think the irony is, though, is that those people 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.319 who were saying safety, you know, safety is and people 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:17.280 are almost in some way without realizing, they are jeopardizing 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:21.320 their long term safety anyway. Yeah, right, Whereas I think 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.840 if we were to have that society that prioritized freedom 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:27.960 and in this case more specifically private property rights and 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:33.000 our rights, I think we would actually, in some kind 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:36.400 of counter intuitive way, we would actually make society more 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:41.000 prosperous and more safe. Anyway. It's just that what happens 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.920 is government becomes this kind of big bureaucracy, if it 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:47.560 starts to impose one size fits all rules on everyone, 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:51.200 it becomes owners it becomes high tax and so those 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:55.600 of us who and you know, want freedom. And it's 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:57.640 a weird thing because it's almost like these the views 0:13:57.679 --> 0:13:59.800 that maybe you and I are talking about now, they 0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:03.559 might be perhaps in the minority now, but a hundred 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.800 years ago they probably weren't in that much of a minority. 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:10.760 It's just that of the time, it just the values 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.600 the culture of society, whether whether in the US or 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:17.280 here in Australia elsewhere in the around the world, it's 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:22.360 like the values have eroded in some way, and so 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:26.040 it's it's it's a tricky situation, but I think there 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:27.880 is kind of like that maybe there is a bit 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.120 of a pendulum sort of swing aspect to this, and 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:33.520 I think to some extent, we're seeing the pendulum kind 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:35.120 of go to the one end, and I think, now 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:37.960 we're gonna, We're gonna eventually it will come back the 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:40.760 other way. There's a book called The Pendulum. That's a 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:42.440 great book. I don't know if you were just saying 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:44.320 that or if you've heard of the book. I haven't, 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:46.800 but it basically talks about it's called the pendulum, and 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:49.040 it talks about these forty year swings where we go 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:54.280 from a week a WEE cycle, so that's WE collectivism, globalism, 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:59.640 and then it swings to a ME cycle, which is individualism, decentralization. 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:01.920 So every forty years it goes so it's an eighty 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:05.280 year cycle back and forth. And the last time we 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:10.760 when we shifted from the decentralized the ME was at 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:12.720 the end of like World War two, which is when 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:16.280 the U N God founded, the EU first started getting founded, 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:19.560 all those things. And right now I think one is 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.760 the peak of that WE cycle, and then it starts 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:28.280 to shift back to a ME individualism decentralization cycle, and 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:30.200 then in the book they trace it back thousands of years. 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:33.880 It's pretty interesting. But um, what I was gonna say 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:35.800 is like when you talked about Austrian nicon, you were 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.680 talking about how it really breaks things down to their 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:41.960 most basic basic, right, So there's like natural laws, and 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:44.680 it seems like we kind of know this because if 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:46.880 we look at nature we can see so if we 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:49.040 look at animals, for example, even if you go to 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:51.280 the state parks in the US, they did not have 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:53.400 a signus says don't feed the animals because the animals 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.160 become dependent on the food and they can't go find 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:58.160 food on their own, right, And so like we we 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:01.480 know this and some some some instance, right, And so 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:04.320 I'm just curious, like if you have what what your 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:05.960 thoughts are on this, because I look at it like, 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:07.840 let's say, if you're a lion, right, Like you're a 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:09.640 free lion and you're in the jungle and you have 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:11.560 to fight for your territory all the time, and you 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:13.520 may starve, but it's a rough life, but you're free. 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:15.320 Or you could be a lion in a cage and 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:17.440 get your antibiotics and get your one meal a day, 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.200 but you're in a cage. But the problem is once 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:23.840 you're in that cage for years or a generation, you 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:27.920 don't really go back to the wild. And so it's 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:30.480 not it doesn't seem like it's gonna be that easy 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:33.240 to just like switch it back off, Like do you 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:34.800 I mean, have you thought about that? Like, how do 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:39.960 we transition out of this? I am it's a hard 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:41.800 question to be honest. I think it's one of those 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:45.000 things where you have to laid by example, And so 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:47.640 I think to some extent, bitcoin people are trying to 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:51.280 laid by that example and say, no, let's take responsibility. 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:54.160 We're gonna take responsibility for ourselves. We're gonna try to 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:58.320 build our communities and give people the freedom back and 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:01.400 encourage them to take their power back where they can 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.280 and you know, go and live free where you can, 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.719 little by little, Yeah, exactly. And I think to some 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:11.600 extent it's I view bitcoin as ultimately it is a 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:14.480 technology that tips the scales in the favor of the individual. 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:16.600 You know. It's kind of like the printing press came 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:18.399 out and it tipped this it changed the balance of 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:20.800 the power, and I think bitcoin is just like that. 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:24.320 It's going to tip the balance more towards individuals and 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:30.040 families and communities versus governments. And so I think what 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:33.600 that like because I think of it like you know 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:36.520 how people talk about that idea of politics is downstream 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:41.320 of culture. I think upstream of culture is economics. And 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:44.879 if we have bad you know, weak or sound, you know, 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:48.440 not fear out money, easy money, easy money that's easy 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:52.359 to create, that causes the cultural degeneration. And then so 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:55.600 I think the next swing back is the hard money direction. 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:58.200 So I think it's kind of like you change the economics, 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.159 you change the culture, and then you change politics, and 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:03.760 I think that is sort of the cycle that we're 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:06.920 coming back into. As you mentioned, Yeah, that's that's real good. 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:10.240 I actually I love that. You know, I'm sure you've 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:12.360 seen the same, right, We've seen however, many people coming 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:16.480 into bitcoin, and when they change their time preference, it 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:18.240 starts to change their whole life. And you see it 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:20.199 over and over. I say it myself other people that 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:22.800 it's changed their entire thought process of the way they 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:25.080 view the world, the way they spend their money, save 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:27.840 their money, work, all these things have changed. And so 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:32.160 it really does start with that economic view, I guess exactly. Yeah, 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:35.240 I think it. You know, as as my friend's safety 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:37.080 and says, the most important trades are the ones that 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:39.359 you make with your future self and you know, you 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:42.600 have to start thinking more about, you know, your future 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:44.960 and ideally when you have a family, your children and 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:47.399 your grandchildren and your legacy and those kinds of things. 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:49.400 And many people when they come into the bitcoin will 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.000 they start really thinking more about these kinds of future 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:55.920 opportunity costs because they weren't all that kind of saving 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:58.560 type who thought about the future. But bitcoin kind of 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:01.240 forced that cost on to them because now it made 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:03.360 it more apparent that, hey, if I spend these bitcoins 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:06.560 now I'm Liz, I'm missing out on huge, huge games 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:08.639 in the future. So now I need to start really 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:12.040 thinking about that. And maybe hey, just another quick interruption 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:13.720 to let you know that this video it's brought to 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:16.439 you add free by Block five. Now they allow you 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:19.000 to hold onto your bitcoin and your other cryptos for 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:21.679 all the potential upside, and at the same time you 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:24.480 can earn high yielding interest on it, so it basically 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:26.639 cash flows. Now with block five you can earn up 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:29.760 to eight point six percent interest. You can also borrow 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.679 against your crypto as well. It's super fast, it's super 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:34.840 easy to set up an account, and right now you 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:37.120 can get up to two hundred and fifty dollars when 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:39.280 you set up your account. Check the link in the 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:41.800 description that I have for details in order to claim 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:44.679 that two and fifty dollars. Because Block five is the 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:46.720 future of finance. Just check the link in the description 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:48.760 for all the details of how to claim your two 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:52.520 and fifty dollars today, eating more healthily, working out, and 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:56.879 doing these kinds of things too. Really, we want to 0:19:56.880 --> 0:19:59.880 play long term games with long term people. Yeah, I'll 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.919 was listening to Safe today and he was talking about 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:07.800 how time, how everything is built on economic principles. That's 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:10.000 kind of exactly what you're saying, and the old and 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:14.919 it's all based off of scarcity and the ultimate economic principle, 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:18.760 the ultimate asset, the ultimate scarcity is time because time 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:20.159 is the only thing we can't go get more of. 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:23.159 So I spent my bitcoin, I can go get more bitcoin, right, 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:24.440 I can go get more gold, I can go get 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:27.480 more whatever, but I can't go back and get more time. 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:30.520 So it's like the ultimate scarcity. And if you look 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:32.520 at and so I guess if you changed the economic 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:34.879 view and like, look at people, most people today probably 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:37.440 don't value their time, right, they squander their time waste 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:38.639