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Speaker 1: What up. I'm Doug Gottlieban. This is All Ball, All

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Speaker 1: Basketball podcast, all the time. Royce White is our guest

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Speaker 1: this week. Royce, of course, is from a former number

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Speaker 1: sixteen pick in the NBA draft and he only played

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Speaker 1: three NBA games in his career, and uh, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot to get to. There's a lot to a lot

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Speaker 1: to unpack with Royce. Um the interview you're going to hear,

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Speaker 1: I would tell you, I'll set it up by saying this, Look,

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Speaker 1: I think that one of the things we've been able

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Speaker 1: to do for the most part, but this podcast is

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Speaker 1: introduced you to basketball people and tell basketball stories, and

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Speaker 1: for whatever reason, I couldn't do that with with with Royce,

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Speaker 1: we just couldn't kind of crack the code. And maybe

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Speaker 1: it's because he's, uh, he's only twenty eight and once

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Speaker 1: get to be in thirty eight, you take a breath

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Speaker 1: and you're like, yeah, you know, this is what happened.

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Speaker 1: What happened, And he's still in the kind of defensive

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Speaker 1: defiant everybody else is wrong and I'm right sort of phase.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't mean that there's not a lot of right to

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Speaker 1: some of his stances that he's taken, but you're not

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Speaker 1: the only You're not always right, and it's not you.

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Speaker 1: So I'll set up there's there's a couple of other things,

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Speaker 1: and I want to get to the NBA draft. I

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Speaker 1: give a couple of thoughts and a couple of players,

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Speaker 1: the NBA Playoffs, what we saw from Houston, Golden State,

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Speaker 1: UM and and and the and the embidue crying and

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Speaker 1: the Ben Simmons people bailing on Ben Simmons left and right.

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Speaker 1: Let's say this about Royce Um. I've always found him

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Speaker 1: to be overly articulate, right, Like he really smart, and

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Speaker 1: we're gonna get into the idea that he's too smart

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Speaker 1: for his own good. But it's interesting. I wouldn't even

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Speaker 1: get him to the point where I could kind of explain, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I understand that you had it all worked out where

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Speaker 1: you didn't have to fly all the time and you

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Speaker 1: could drive or have a driver take you two games

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Speaker 1: in the NBA. But there's this thing about working and

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Speaker 1: about having a job. Some jobs you have, they they

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Speaker 1: don't care, Like I don't care how you get there.

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Speaker 1: Just be there at this particular time and be ready

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Speaker 1: to go. We don't care. But that's not the way

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Speaker 1: everybody operates, and the bigger the job, the more you know,

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Speaker 1: they don't like he was a rookie into the n

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Speaker 1: b A, And frankly, I don't blame the Houston Rockets

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Speaker 1: for going like you know, it's not that he's a

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Speaker 1: bad guy. It's just it's just a pain in the

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Speaker 1: ass to have. Okay, where is Royce? How is he

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Speaker 1: gonna be there? What time is it gonna be there?

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Speaker 1: How is the travel? Will he be there for shoot around?

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Speaker 1: Will he be there for practice? Like you just it

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Speaker 1: becomes too much, becomes too much. I understand this because look,

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Speaker 1: I've had that in my career. I'll liken it. When

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Speaker 1: I was at CBS, I was doing radio show, I

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Speaker 1: was doing a TV show at night, and I was

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Speaker 1: doing college basketball. And my whole thing was like, look,

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Speaker 1: put me on any game. I'll fly out red eye,

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Speaker 1: I'll get there, I'll do it. It'll be great and

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Speaker 1: there and part of it is house CBS was wired,

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Speaker 1: which is like, look do we had to do We

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Speaker 1: had to find a radio studio and then do you

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Speaker 1: do in the TV? And are you gonna miss the

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Speaker 1: production meeting for the basketball at we we it just

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Speaker 1: becomes where it's like it's a lot where or we

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Speaker 1: could just go and get somebody to do the game,

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Speaker 1: where they're just gonna come in and do the game

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Speaker 1: and then they're gonna go home and we don't have

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Speaker 1: to worry about a couple of other calls. And I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying it makes the NBA or the Rockets right

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Speaker 1: and Royce wrong. No, Royce, like, if you show up

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Speaker 1: for every practice, every game and you're ready to go,

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Speaker 1: I don't personally can air, but when you're a rookie,

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Speaker 1: they do care. You haven't earned the right to dictate

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Speaker 1: your terms as to travel. The same thing is true

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Speaker 1: in television and radio, like they just sometimes some some

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Speaker 1: places don't want to go through extra hoops when they

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Speaker 1: don't have to. They just want easy if the production

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Speaker 1: is relatively the same, they just want easy. And as

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Speaker 1: you'll listen to with the with the Royce interview, it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's not easy. And there was never a point

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Speaker 1: where I felt like he said, you know, I was

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Speaker 1: wrong in this example. I should have done this differently.

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Speaker 1: And that's just you get to a certain point in

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Speaker 1: your life when you start to realize, whether at the

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Speaker 1: time you realize it or not. Sometimes you are wrong

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Speaker 1: or sometimes you're not right, and sometimes you have to

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Speaker 1: see things from somebody else's perspective. Here's my discussion with

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Speaker 1: Royce White the now mm A fighter and member of

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Speaker 1: a team in the Big Right, Royce, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining us. A bunch of things to get into

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Speaker 1: and the great thing about the pot is we we

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Speaker 1: got plenty of time. Um, Okay, you're getting ready to

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Speaker 1: play in the Big Three. But you're also a mixed

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Speaker 1: martial artist. Like I want to get go all the

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Speaker 1: way back and and talk about growing up in Minneapolis

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Speaker 1: and everything that's taken place. But are you a how

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Speaker 1: can can you do both? Right? Can you be a

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Speaker 1: mixed martial artist and a basketball player? Still? Yeah? Uh,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how to really answer that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think I think athletes are just kitchen holes with

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Speaker 1: their athletic ability based on the you know, the the

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Speaker 1: framework of the brokerage at the professional level, and it

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Speaker 1: trickles all the way down to the way that athletes developed.

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Speaker 1: I know that for me, playing basketball at very high

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Speaker 1: level when high school kind of you know, predisposed me

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Speaker 1: to uh, you know, kind of kind of have a

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Speaker 1: tunnel vision for basketball, and you know, things like football

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Speaker 1: and baseball even became an after thought although I should

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Speaker 1: have been able to, I should have continue to play

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Speaker 1: those sports and it would have been successful. I thought

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Speaker 1: sports too. Um, and it's not all the question that

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Speaker 1: I that I explored the football option as well and

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Speaker 1: in my you know, in my in my near future.

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Speaker 1: So I think, you know, just a lot of athletes, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, have have a lot of self doubt based

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Speaker 1: on the way that they developed their athletes. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it's I mean, I don't think at this

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Speaker 1: level it self doubt. Like I think it's out of

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Speaker 1: respect for like mixed martial artists. Uh, some of those

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Speaker 1: guys are you know, champion wrestlers. Others have been have been,

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Speaker 1: you know, doing Brazilian jiu jitsu for twenty years. There's

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Speaker 1: a level of technical understand but like but like who

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Speaker 1: like whop hoop takes and and and and and I

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Speaker 1: do I I understand this being a former hooper. Is

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Speaker 1: we all think that hoop takes twenty four hours? Like

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Speaker 1: it doesn't you know, you get in if you do

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Speaker 1: your work right. You know, you can work out even

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Speaker 1: twice a day and and be done in a couple hours.

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Speaker 1: And so you do have other time in your day.

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Speaker 1: But I'm just wondering about how how you parse your time,

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Speaker 1: um in terms of uh, mixed martial arts and and

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Speaker 1: playing basketball. Yeah, I try. I trained mixed martial arts

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Speaker 1: in the morning and I trained basketball at night. Pretty simple. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I would guess that that that the Big Three is

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Speaker 1: so physical that you'll thrive, like that's one of those things.

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Speaker 1: And so much of physicality and basketball one like kind

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Speaker 1: of you're made for it with your body type and

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Speaker 1: your and and your use of your use of your legs.

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Speaker 1: But the use of leverage that that's a that's a

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Speaker 1: fair point to bring up. Just in terms of athletes

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Speaker 1: that can transition. There's a few baseline uh mentalities, body types,

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Speaker 1: attributes that that that transition well into the sports. And

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Speaker 1: I have to be fortunate enough to be a heavyweight.

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Speaker 1: And not to say that the heavyweight division is is

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Speaker 1: you know, a cake walk, but it certainly is the

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Speaker 1: thinnest division just by um, just by you know a

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Speaker 1: number of of athletic heavyweights in the world. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's just not many heavyweights to you know, heavyweights to

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Speaker 1: finished division. And uh, you know, the same could be

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Speaker 1: said for me playing tight in. I mean, how many

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Speaker 1: guys that you know are six A to seventy uh contractable,

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Speaker 1: you know, are trained and tracking the ball and big

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Speaker 1: hands and you know, lateral movement, mobility. Uh. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's just some people can can transition to other sports

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Speaker 1: and some cannon and then some probably couldn't just don't

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Speaker 1: have the you know, the confidence to do so. Like

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Speaker 1: I said, there's an epidemic of self doubting. It goes

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Speaker 1: far beyond sports. I'm not afflicted with it. I I

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Speaker 1: honestly that that would be probably what afflected me when

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Speaker 1: I was at Oklahoma State. When I went became a

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Speaker 1: guy who couldn't make up could make a shot because

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Speaker 1: I didn't think I could make a shot. And it's

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Speaker 1: it's really hard. And I think it's interesting now in

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Speaker 1: raising my own son as a young athlete, it's like

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Speaker 1: you don't want to gas them up and do the

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Speaker 1: participation trophy and tell them that everything is great every time.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, you also don't want to kill

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Speaker 1: their their confidence because you you know as an athlete

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Speaker 1: how hard it is to get back, if if possible

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Speaker 1: at all, once you look, once you once doubt takes

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Speaker 1: over like it doesn't really matter what you do in

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Speaker 1: training because you're not gonna you're not gonna be able

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Speaker 1: to get get out of your own way. Absolutely. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think as a greater society of a conversation or

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Speaker 1: point um, you know, the participation overkill, it was definitely

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Speaker 1: an issue. But I think it's a racket, one of

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Speaker 1: many rackets that we see, um that that we we

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Speaker 1: burn on both ends. Burn the candle on both ends,

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Speaker 1: you could say, by telling young people that you know,

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Speaker 1: at some at some point in America to every man

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Speaker 1: for himself, but then again that uh, you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: kitchen hole yourself or or or you know, stay within

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Speaker 1: these lines or or have these preconceived notions about what

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Speaker 1: your abilities are, what you're capable of, be realistic, so

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Speaker 1: to speak. It's just it's just so Unamerican in my

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Speaker 1: opinion of what being American is. It's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're you're not you're not uh leading somebody down the

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Speaker 1: wrong path to to really tell them and instilling them

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Speaker 1: that they can do whatever they set their mind to.

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Speaker 1: And it's just strange that in some in certain places,

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Speaker 1: we accept that notion that that you can put you

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Speaker 1: can do whatever you put your mind to him. In

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Speaker 1: some we just completely shut that door. And for some

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Speaker 1: people it's just a strange contradictions and you think just

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Speaker 1: one of many. You know that that we uh that

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Speaker 1: we practice in our our culture. Um, all right, let's

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Speaker 1: let's go back to the start. You you grew up

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Speaker 1: in You grew up in St. Paul, not not in

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Speaker 1: not in Minneapolis. Like I know, it kind of becomes

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Speaker 1: one of the same too many people outside of the

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Speaker 1: Twin Cities. But was was Same Paul where you actually

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Speaker 1: grew up? I saw. I was actually born in Saint Paul. Um.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in the Roundo community, which you know

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Speaker 1: Minnesotans and twenties neighbors are familiar with. It's it's basically

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Speaker 1: one of the oldest communities, you know, Stone Stone from

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Speaker 1: the Capitol Um. But you know, like I grew up

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Speaker 1: in the Twin Cities, so I could I could really

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Speaker 1: say with confidence that I grew up in the Twin

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Speaker 1: Cities metro area and in a variety of places. My

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Speaker 1: mom moved around. He's a single mother, and we we rented. Um.

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Speaker 1: So I grew up in different parts of the city,

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Speaker 1: and I played basketball, exports and different parts of the city.

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Speaker 1: And I had a huge family and relative that also

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Speaker 1: lived in different portions of the city. So having a

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Speaker 1: single mom, I would spend time with them and on

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Speaker 1: on the weekends and when she had to work, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I developed relationships with kids and in multiple neighborhoods,

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Speaker 1: and um, that was good for me. I was able

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Speaker 1: to see a very diverse I had a very diverse

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Speaker 1: culture upbringing. Minnesota is already diverse, but I hadn't even

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Speaker 1: further diverse upbringing, given you know, just my my situation

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Speaker 1: at at a child. So I was unfortunate for that,

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Speaker 1: and I'm very grateful for that. Who'd you grew up?

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Speaker 1: Who drew up playing with? Who? Who is like? Because

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Speaker 1: because there have been some really good AU teams out

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Speaker 1: of out of Minnesota. Who is who is your squad

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Speaker 1: when you're coming up? I played at the Martin of

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Speaker 1: the Team Center first. Um also played in South St.

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Speaker 1: Paul at a point in time, and then I played

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Speaker 1: for the Minapolis Hustlers, which all the you know, all

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Speaker 1: the best players and most of the best players and

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Speaker 1: in Minnesota history has come out of barring you know,

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Speaker 1: magic gold in the program that they have. But you know,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of us and them. UM. And you know

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Speaker 1: after that, I played with with Howard Pulley obviously, and

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Speaker 1: you know they are the gold standards. Who is in

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Speaker 1: Howard Pulley team? Do you remember who was on my

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Speaker 1: Horror Polly team? Yeah? I had Jordan Taylor, Jared Bergrand

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Speaker 1: both went on to play Wisconsin. Rodney Williams played with

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Speaker 1: me as well. Marcus Williams, who should have kept playing basketball.

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Speaker 1: Another athlete that that could have definitely continue to play basketball.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I can't argue with him going to

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Speaker 1: the NFL and win in three national championships out there

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Speaker 1: at nd ISSUE. UM. We also had Carrington Tankston, who

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Speaker 1: many won't know but with a bona five score. UM.

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Speaker 1: And you know Sean Charles Henderson also went on to

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Speaker 1: play in the NFL. Mike Fitch, Mike Fitzgerald, uh, you

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Speaker 1: know some some some some pretty high level guys. Also

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Speaker 1: played with bear uh. Angelo Johnson who was at USC

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Speaker 1: and a really good player that some people may not

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Speaker 1: know but but as basketball players know that he's probably

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Speaker 1: one of the best ever to ever do it. So

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Speaker 1: I was fortunate to come up with Mike Brogrammer, sorry

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Speaker 1: him as well. I was fortunate to play with some

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Speaker 1: really good guys. You started your career Delasal, which is

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Speaker 1: a Catholic school, and you, I mean you started and

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Speaker 1: you played, you know as a freshman, like you're successful,

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Speaker 1: and why why did you end up at at Hopkins

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Speaker 1: where you had kind of an unbelievable run your senior

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Speaker 1: year White Switch. Yeah, I got dismissed for academic misconducts Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, a teammate and I were helping each other

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Speaker 1: out on the history test and uh, I just didn't

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Speaker 1: you know. They gave me the option to come back

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Speaker 1: at the start of the next year, and I thought

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Speaker 1: it was a ridiculous. Ridiculous concept is like, you know,

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Speaker 1: if if you're kicking me out, then then I'm out. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I went on transfer to Hopkins and you know,

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Speaker 1: we went undefeated. So and then you went to the

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Speaker 1: u University of Minnesota. You played and you were supposed

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Speaker 1: to play for Tubby, right, Um, but a lot of

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Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of players from Minneapolis they

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Speaker 1: turned down. And this was one of the things I

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Speaker 1: talked about. And anybody who's ever been on staff there,

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Speaker 1: they're like, there's there's four or five, you know, really

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Speaker 1: good players always in Minnesota per year, and there's two

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Speaker 1: or three that you feel like you have to get

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Speaker 1: and if you get them, you got a chance to

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Speaker 1: be really special. Obviously the Jones Boys, um are are

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Speaker 1: a couple of examples, but there are there are so

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Speaker 1: many others. Um Okay, So what was what was it like?

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Speaker 1: What was Tubby like when he recruited you? Oh, man,

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Speaker 1: I got none but respect for Tubby. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: when when Dan Munson was still here at the University

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Speaker 1: of Minnesota, they recruited me early. And I had a

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Speaker 1: great relationship with the University of Minnesota, former athletes from

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Speaker 1: the University Minnesota basketball players and otherwise, um people that

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Speaker 1: that worked at the university. My great great uncle, Alfred

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Speaker 1: Auri was the dean of the dentistry school back at

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty, revolutionized dental care for not only UH Minnesota,

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Speaker 1: but America and pretty much the world. So I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: connected with the university, and um, you know, Tubby coming

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Speaker 1: was a surprise. I mean we we didn't know that.

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Speaker 1: I had no clue about that in my recruitment obviously,

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Speaker 1: and when he got here, it was just a bonus.

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Speaker 1: I was going to the University of Minnesota anyway, out

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Speaker 1: of out of loyalty. So, um, him him coming was

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Speaker 1: a was a great thing. And I developed a relationship

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Speaker 1: with him quick and you know, I think he was

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Speaker 1: a fantastic coach. Me and him had nothing, but you know,

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Speaker 1: respect for each other, had a good time, had a

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Speaker 1: good relationship and practice on the court. Um off the court,

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Speaker 1: you know, we we had great conversations. I whish I

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Speaker 1: was able to play for him. I think it would

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Speaker 1: have changed the trajectory of his career as a coach

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Speaker 1: from from the Minnesota aspect. And uh, it would have

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Speaker 1: changed the trajectory of the university as well, I would agree.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's interesting. Um, you got in trouble

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Speaker 1: and then uh god who transferred to Oregon? Um, what

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Speaker 1: was the point guard? Don't ship over that I got

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Speaker 1: in trouble though, I'm not gonna skip I'm not gonna

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Speaker 1: skip over it. But I do think it's it's interesting.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting to Justin Cobbs transferred and played. My brother

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Speaker 1: was at Cow. So you had they had three points

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Speaker 1: had three point guards? Right, we had too opinion listen,

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Speaker 1: so hold on, so no question. So so here's here's

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Speaker 1: how in my when I try and explain to people like,

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Speaker 1: like there's Jeff Goodman's like, well, Tubby didn't recruit, like

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Speaker 1: hold on, no, dude, he had Royce White. He had

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Speaker 1: to vote Joseph and Justin Cobb, Justin Cobbon de vote Joseph.

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Speaker 1: Both leave. Royce gets kicked off, kicked out, kicked out

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Speaker 1: of school, and now all this thing I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Well, hold on, we'll get into the

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Speaker 1: hold on, we'll get to Royce, We'll get to you.

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Speaker 1: You have plenty of time to explain. I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: explain what happened to Minnesota basketball. Well, I mean, I'm

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Speaker 1: not looking. I'm not I'm listen. You don't have to

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Speaker 1: be defensive. I'll get plenty of time to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: I'm not defensive. People just sound by things and you know, no,

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Speaker 1: no that's not That's not the way this us, not

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Speaker 1: the way this works. This is a pod. We we

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Speaker 1: we go through the whole thing and we'll explain. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I mean posterior people. People do that that

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Speaker 1: may not even be involved with the podcast. So that's

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Speaker 1: why we have to be careful with what we say

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Speaker 1: in real time, regardless of whether it's listens back to

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Speaker 1: it full former and in minutes or sound bites. But

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Speaker 1: that's my point is, so you have favor, right, but

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Speaker 1: not just that, but like, look, you can't if you

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Speaker 1: don't have a point guard, you ain't going anything. And

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Speaker 1: the way I remember, I can't remember, so al Nolan

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Speaker 1: was left as a point guard. One year he got

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Speaker 1: suspended for grades and one year he got hurt and

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Speaker 1: didn't have him in the Big ten I think either

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Speaker 1: of those two years. And then two other legit big

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Speaker 1: time point guards Justin Cobbs at kal and Devote Joseph's

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Speaker 1: at Oregon, and they he both had both of them.

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Speaker 1: And then you're essentially a point power forward, like three

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Speaker 1: outstanding essentially guys that can handle the basketball all left

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Speaker 1: and then your point guard that you're left with when

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Speaker 1: you got hurt, when you got suspend. That's gonna make

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Speaker 1: anybody look like they don't know what they're doing if

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Speaker 1: you lose your point guards. But it just took me

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Speaker 1: a while to get to my point because you're worried

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Speaker 1: about how I say what I say. Uh no, yeah,

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Speaker 1: well it's important, okay, So so let's let's get kicked

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Speaker 1: out of school for an athlete is a big deal.

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Speaker 1: Although I didn't get kicked out of school, but just

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Speaker 1: that that whole that whole thing is a is a

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Speaker 1: really uh, it's a really big deal and not to

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Speaker 1: be mentioned. I think in sequence with the whims of

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Speaker 1: the recruiting process and who played or didn't play for

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Speaker 1: whatever other benign reason it may have been, like graves

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Speaker 1: or whatnot, getting kicked out of school, I think you

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Speaker 1: would agree as a significant uh mentioning there yeah, no

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Speaker 1: no questions. I mean, like, look, and I don't know

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Speaker 1: how much you know about my background. I I defend

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Speaker 1: myself often when people say, well, you got kicked out

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Speaker 1: of Notre Dame. I didn't. I probably would have been

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Speaker 1: had I had I been allowed to come back and

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Speaker 1: face the uh the student board or whatever, the ethics

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Speaker 1: board at Notre Dame. I was one of those deals

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Speaker 1: where I stole credit cards and used them and they

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Speaker 1: found out, and you know, I said, hey, i'll be suspended,

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Speaker 1: I'll sit out whatever I need to, I'll pay restitution.

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Speaker 1: And there's three kids, and two of them were like okay,

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Speaker 1: and one I was like not okay. And so I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have I probably wouldn't have Uh, I wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: the honor to type things on our code board or whatever.

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Speaker 1: And so people are like, well, you got kicked out

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Speaker 1: in our dame, Like no, I left Notre Dame, and

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Speaker 1: but I I would have liked to fought it, but

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Speaker 1: it wasn't really necessarily an option. All right, let's let's

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Speaker 1: go through, um. And we don't have to go through

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Speaker 1: every certain certain detail unless you want to. UM. My

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Speaker 1: situation was pretty pretty simple. Um, I got into an

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Speaker 1: Internet at the Mall of America. I was with a

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Speaker 1: group of friends and and uh, there were some idols

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Speaker 1: that were allegedly taken, and one of the you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the loss prevention guys, uh, you know, trailed

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Speaker 1: me into the parking lot. I was as out in

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Speaker 1: some and a group of friends was leaving the mall

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Speaker 1: and he got he got kind of physical with me,

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Speaker 1: you know, he ran up behind me, grabbed me by

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Speaker 1: the neck, and UM, I slipped him over. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: you know, he was he wasn't small. He wasn't he

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Speaker 1: wasn't big then. It's six eight two fifty at the

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Speaker 1: time I was, but you know, he was probably like

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Speaker 1: six two six three two twenty maybe, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: and he popped on my neck and grabbed me and

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Speaker 1: I just slipped him. And you know, one of the

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Speaker 1: ladies that was coming out with him, uh saw that,

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Speaker 1: and you know called the police and they sworn them

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Speaker 1: like eight cars, and you know it was just this

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Speaker 1: huge ordeal. And I was just like, hey, I wasn't

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Speaker 1: feeling anything. Um, this guy, you know, thought that I was.

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Speaker 1: I was with a group of friends. Can't speak on them,

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Speaker 1: won't speak on them. Uh. And he decided that he

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Speaker 1: was gonna take you know, physical action, and you know,

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Speaker 1: it's just fair, fair game, man. At that point in

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Speaker 1: my opinion, I wasn't gonna let him choke me out

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. Of course, you know you're not

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Speaker 1: gonna play that game. But so anyway, so that situation

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Speaker 1: took place, I just you know, played guilty to mismeaner

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Speaker 1: because I'm not into staying and the old is this

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Speaker 1: guy or that guy or you know, you know speaking

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Speaker 1: on my friends and I don't. I don't do that. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I played guilty that because it was

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Speaker 1: a misdemeanor anyway, and and uh I wasn't even I

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Speaker 1: think I was suspended for maybe a game from that incident. Now,

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks later, maybe like maybe even four

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Speaker 1: weeks later, I was on campus. You know, we were

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Speaker 1: hanging out. It's the weekend where freshmen, I'm from the city,

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Speaker 1: all kinds of people are coming down to the campus

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Speaker 1: and hang out. We're having a great time. Um, And

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Speaker 1: there was a laptop stewing from a girl's dorm room. Now,

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Speaker 1: when the police came to ask this girl, you know,

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Speaker 1: a question her about, you know, what the night had

426
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 1: how the night had transpired. They specifically asked her who

427
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 1: was in the dorm room? Who was here that doesn't

428
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 1: live here, and she lifted the number of people, but

429
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 1: she was like, well, I don't know everybody who wasn't

430
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 1: here by name, but Royce and a group of his

431
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 1: friends were and they don't live here. So in that case,

432
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,919
Speaker 1: I became a possible suspect. And that's what I had

433
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,719
Speaker 1: stayed at that that was my status throughout the remainder

434
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 1: of the investigation, was a popsicle suspect. Um. Although her

435
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 1: and her parents made sure that they reached out to

436
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 1: me once you been staying republic and said listen, we

437
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,399
Speaker 1: did not tell the police that we had any you

438
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,880
Speaker 1: know that we thought in any way that you were

439
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 1: involved with the stealing of this laptop. Uh. That was

440
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 1: something that they wanted to or that you know, that

441
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 1: they took into their own hands. And so UM, basically

442
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 1: what what what happened from there is that the investigation

443
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 1: went on for five or six months. They just carried

444
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 1: the investigation on because well, two things. The university, the

445
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 1: athletic department made the mistake that many universities make, and

446
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 1: they you know, preemptively suspend you from the team and

447
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 1: you're you're guilty until proven innocent, when it should be

448
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 1: the other way around. Um. And and so you know,

449
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,639
Speaker 1: the police department kind of knew that as long as

450
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: they held the case out, uh, then I wouldn't be

451
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,199
Speaker 1: able to participate. And uh, you know, the girl's laptop

452
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 1: actually was returned to her over that weekend, and sure

453
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 1: he didn't return it to her. So uh, that time,

454
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 1: there was good evidence that the case should have been

455
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: thrown out in terms of my involved in an investigation,

456
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,239
Speaker 1: but it wasn't. Uh. So at the end of that

457
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 1: entire investigation, when they came back and finally just charged

458
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 1: me with trespassing, Uh, it was pretty clear that it

459
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 1: was time for me to go. And you know, there's

460
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 1: more details in there that that that I'll say, you know,

461
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: and talk about at a at another you know, point

462
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 1: in time that has to do with the city of

463
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 1: minne athletes, some of the people that I hung out with, UM,

464
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: some of the things that were going on on campus

465
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 1: and and and downs how many athletes as well in

466
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: terms of like you know, for just a team examples

467
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 1: that the nightclubs that decided to not let uh any

468
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: guys under twenty one end, but they were letting girls

469
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 1: under twenty one end. So all of the under the

470
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,680
Speaker 1: twenty one guys, we needed a new place to hang out,

471
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: so they came down to the campus in trolls. I mean,

472
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 1: there were thousands of people hanging out on the campus

473
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: at nighttime, uh, during the weekend and on the weekends

474
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: for sure, and you know, fights were breaking out some

475
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: times and things like that. Nothing too praizy abody got

476
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 1: shot or stabbed or anything like that that I recalled,

477
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: But it was kind of just all attributed to me

478
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: being there, you know, like, well, Royce's from here, these

479
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: are his friends, and it's just patent racism. It's like no. Yeah,

480
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: I know some of these people. I grew up in

481
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: this city. I've been there for eighteen years before I

482
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,360
Speaker 1: ever made it to be a university men souther athlete.

483
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: And yeah, I know them, but they're not my crew,

484
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So, I mean, at the

485
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 1: end of the day, you know, Tubby wanted me to

486
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 1: come back to the team the following year. Um and

487
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: and Joe Maturi after you know, he had he had

488
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: it had been clear that he had made a probably

489
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: a bad decision. Uh, you know, they were totally all

490
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 1: for me, you know, rejoining the team after the investigation

491
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: and going on into the next season and you know,

492
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 1: gearing up. And at that point, I just didn't trust

493
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 1: the police department. I didn't trust that if another accusation

494
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: was throwing my way, I wouldn't automatically be suspended or

495
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: kicked off the team again. So I decided to move on. Okay,

496
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: So this is an honest question. Okay, because anybody who

497
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 1: knows you knows your bright Okay, and uh, you can

498
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: kind of explain a bunch of different things. And and

499
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: because I wasn't there, well I don't, I don't know,

500
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,439
Speaker 1: but uh, to the common dude who goes out and

501
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: goes like, wait a second, you got caught cheating on

502
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 1: a test in high school, so you had to leave Delasal.

503
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 1: And then then there's the ball thing. Then there's this thing,

504
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: the laptop accusation that went away that nothing ever came

505
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: of it. Uh. Then there's the talk. Then there's this

506
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: accusations of your you know, you're bringing your crew even

507
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 1: though it's not your crew to campus and it's causing

508
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 1: the rockets. Like I don't under I don't understand. I

509
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: guess I don't understand, Uh why the multiple things, right, Like, yeah, well,

510
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 1: because because the microscope is the biggest on the best

511
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: maybe the best basketball player to ever play in the

512
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: state of Minnesota, maybe just just probably. I mean, you

513
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 1: know that there's a sense of gravity, uh, that that

514
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: swirls around certain individuals in our societal structure. There's no

515
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 1: there's no doubt about that. I don't think that's a

516
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: stretch or reach in any means. As a matter of fact,

517
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: I think it's a pretty simple concept and we see it,

518
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: you know, every day in our media. I mean, you know,

519
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: for christ Shakes, I can't turn the TV on without

520
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: people talking about Donald Trump before he was elected. So

521
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 1: there's certain people that have a gravity given on you know,

522
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: their personality, time, play, circumstance, uh, you know, environment and

523
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: and whatever else. And you know, I didn't need to

524
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: just throw his name out there, but you know there's

525
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,719
Speaker 1: people that you could use. I had used the number four.

526
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: I don't think that I hold on, hold on one second.

527
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: I don't think they're linear. I don't. I don't think

528
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: you can can. First of all, cheating on the test

529
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,199
Speaker 1: is like the most common thing in high school. And

530
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: maybe people trying to rake me over the coach for that,

531
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: but I know a lot of high school kids and

532
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 1: I would never say their names because again, I don't

533
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: do that. I'll show I'll share with you my best,

534
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: my best listen, and for good reason that the entire

535
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 1: curriculum for for school systems is under fire and in question.

536
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 1: And you know, a good honest, a good honest um.

537
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: I think point for a good honest thing that could

538
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: come from that conversation about where education needs to go

539
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 1: is the fact that a lot of people are cheating

540
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: on their school work. And you know what is that

541
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: telling us? So I'm not saying that that excuses me

542
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 1: for cheating. But it's just like, I don't think you

543
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: can make the walk from that. But then infer implicate

544
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: that there's some type of dishonest characteristic that's that's nestled

545
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: within my, my, my, my, you know, my personality that

546
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 1: you can then say, well, okay, well then is he

547
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: doing this or was he still in the laptopice like, No,

548
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: I didn't still a laptop. They know I didn't. She

549
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: know I didn't. The police, No, I didn't. Uh. The

550
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: MA All American incident was his own thing, and I

551
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: decided not to speak on anybody else because that's how

552
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: that's the that I live by. And the kids come

553
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: to the the campus wor some of my worse some of

554
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: some of them were my friends, um and some of

555
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: them worked. I mean, friend is a very is a

556
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: very interesting term when you're talking about a place where

557
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: you grew up since childhood and people that I knew,

558
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: people that I may have been friends with before that

559
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: I've fallen out of touch with. And then there were

560
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: people that were with me every day, that were with

561
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: me on a daily basis or a weekly basis in

562
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: that time. So you know, friend is a loose word.

563
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: I consider some of my friends, family. So you know,

564
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: there's a difference between me living on the ground level

565
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: or or you know, you could say, uh living you know,

566
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: boots on the ground and then with the administration uh

567
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: and the way that they do and talk about things

568
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: in their little you know, their little boardrooms or wherever

569
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: they have their their little you know powows. So uh.

570
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: So you get to Iowa State, which is it's not

571
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 1: crazy far, but look, aims is a crazy difference from

572
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: growing up in in the city of Minneapolis. What was

573
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: that year? What was that year sitting out like? And

574
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: essentially this is a second year of sitting out right

575
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: do you and so you sit out again? Like what

576
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: was that like for you? Man? I had a great time. Um,

577
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: I mean it was tough on the basketball side because

578
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: we we thought I was gonna be able to play,

579
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: but the instead in still later to die. My waiver

580
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: which uh which they are waiver that they give out

581
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: like candy. Now, so a lot of people don't know that, um,

582
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: that our waiver was mental health based. And because of

583
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: some of the practice, some of these some of the

584
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: actions of the University Minnesota Police Department got very nasty

585
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: and very targeting, like towards example, I had an investigator

586
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: tell me like, we know you stole laptop, and we're

587
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: gonna prove it. You know, we're gonna prove it. It's like,

588
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: all right, you didn't prove it, so you know, I'll

589
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: take an apology. I said that on day one when

590
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: they called me down to the station, and I still

591
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: haven't gotten that apology. And then uh, later on, after

592
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: the investigation was over, I stated that why I left

593
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: the university was based on a fear of the university menial,

594
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: the University of Minnesota police department in there, you know there, right,

595
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: But but what what was said in response to that

596
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: from a report in one article or you know, one

597
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: of the reporters I think of the Starship or maybe

598
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: the Pioneer Press had asked the chief of police a

599
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: question about me leaving and what I had said about them,

600
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 1: and the chief police responded by with, uh, you know,

601
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: Royce doesn't strike me as a fearful individual. And it's

602
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: just like like you know, another patent racism is like, well,

603
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: he's big and black, and he doesn't strike me as

604
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: spiritful because he's confident or arrogant, or he's articulate, or

605
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: he he walks around with an air of surety. It's like, yeah,

606
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: you shouldn't be a chief of police. Your understanding or

607
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: your respect for the mental domain is patently UH in

608
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: act and and there's no way that you should be

609
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: overseeing other police officers. I don't even know if you

610
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: should be overseeing yourself with that type of ignorant mindset.

611
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: So when when when my doctors heard that, they were like, yeah,

612
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: you probably should get out of here. We understand why

613
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: you hearing that would make you more anxious about them,

614
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: and we if I was a student there and I

615
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: have been targeted, I'd be anxious to tell about the

616
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: police department too. There were three doctors who I saw

617
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: at the time, one including the team doctor, a person

618
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: of family doctor or mine, and then and then another

619
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: UH therapists who I saw for UH E B M

620
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: E M D R treatment for anxiety. And all three

621
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 1: of them signed a letter in waiver to Mark Emerton,

622
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: n c l A saying that my transferring was mental

623
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: health based. So my my fight for the mental health

624
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: advocacy or mental health rights or or mentealth respects started

625
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: with the INSID lay before I even transfer to Iowa State.

626
00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: UH and they denied that waiver and they gave no

627
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: reason why, which they don't give a reason why, and

628
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: a lot of decisions they make. They're one of the

629
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: most corrupt shadow groups in the modern society in my opinion,

630
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: just in the fact that they don't have to really

631
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: answer to anybody or give any explanations. But they gave

632
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: no explanation on that. So I told you that story

633
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: just to tell you that it was hard from the

634
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: basketball standpoints in not Ohio State, because we really believe

635
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: that I was gonna be able to play um and

636
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: had I played, you know, they would have had a

637
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: much better year. And there were some guys on that

638
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: team that I wish I had been able to play with.

639
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: So this this does bring us to the anxiety piece,

640
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 1: which is very and its course is Mental Health Awareness Month.

641
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: And I so, so when did when did you first

642
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: know or when did somebody first say, like, hey man,

643
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: you might have some anxiety issues going on? Yeah, I

644
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: mean it was uh I was. I was sixteen when

645
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: I was diaging us with generalized anxiety, Like were you

646
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: were you having trouble in school? Was it sleeping? Like

647
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: I have a daughter who has has sleeping I was

648
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: I was mostly having panic attacks. I was having panic

649
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: attacked from my my one and only UM experience with marijuana.

650
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 1: So I was having panic attacks maybe three times a day,

651
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: four times a day after that, UM and and that

652
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: kind of you know, tapered off to like maybe one

653
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: panic attack a day. And I just I built up

654
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 1: such an accumulation of fatigue from the one panic attack

655
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: a day that you know, five six months later, I

656
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 1: walked in from the school nurses office. I was already

657
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: at Hopkins by this time, UM, because I turned eighteen

658
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 1: in April. I have April birthday, so I was always

659
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: you know late. I was turning the next you know

660
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: year during the school year, so or at the end

661
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 1: of the school years. And so yeah, when I was seventeen,

662
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 1: I had been at Hopkins already for a few months

663
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: because I went to at the end of my junior year.

664
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: And that I built up such an accumulation of fatigue

665
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: from the anxiety that I just walked in the nursing's

666
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: office one day and we, uh, we happen to have

667
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: a school based mental health since doing which they disbanded. Uh.

668
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: It was a federal system that was headed up by

669
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 1: Sam uh In some parts of the country, but we

670
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: had one independently because Minnesota is just on their ship

671
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: when it comes to a lot of things. And uh,

672
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: well I was fortunate to have a family practitioner right

673
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 1: there on site at the school that that diagnosed me,

674
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: got me on medication, started treatment, playing and you know,

675
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: really changed my life at that point. So, um, so

676
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: you're at You're at Iowa State, you're sitting out, you

677
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 1: haven't played in two years. Uh, you finally get you

678
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: finally get on the court to play for fred Ouiberg.

679
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: What was it like? Man? It was It was a

680
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 1: crazy experience. I mean, you know, if you go back

681
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: all the way to my high school years, I was

682
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: I was kind of an underdog or underrated. You know.

683
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 1: I felt like Minnesota wasn't on the map yet. Um.

684
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: On the prep ranking, the newly emerging prep ranking scene, Um,

685
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: you know, we had had Chris Humphreys who had made

686
00:35:58,080 --> 00:35:59,919
Speaker 1: it into the top Hunted and was you know, made

687
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 1: an All American Top twenty guys. But other than that,

688
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: we hadn't really had many um and that was primarily

689
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: in my opinion, because the prep ranking you know, sits

690
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: or that that community that circle were located on the

691
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 1: coasts or men mcdown in Texas maybe some um and

692
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: so guys just didn't get a chance to get the exposure,

693
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: even with Howard poorly going out and doing those tournaments, uh,

694
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: you know, across the country. So I was one of

695
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: the first guys that put us back on the map.

696
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: Me and Robby is as well, putting us back on

697
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 1: the map, uh in in that way and being the

698
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: top twenty five guy five star recruits. UM, but I

699
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: still wasn't being covered and it wasn't being talked about

700
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: like like what I would become. And even when I

701
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,240
Speaker 1: went to Minnesota, you know, that kind of helped because

702
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, hometown kids staying home. Uh, this is

703
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: exciting for the program. So the the history of the programming,

704
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,479
Speaker 1: where where it had been and where it was where

705
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: to pretend we go helped some of that that exposure

706
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: or some of that hype around me. But even by

707
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 1: the time I got to Minnesota, a lot of the conversation,

708
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: not only from the media but from the other coaches

709
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 1: were like the other coaches in the conference were like,

710
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: we don't know what Io State is gonna be because

711
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 1: we don't know what Royce is gonna do. Uh, we

712
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: don't know what Royce can do, to be honest, is

713
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 1: what they really wanted to say. But we don't know

714
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 1: what if he'll be able to play. And so they

715
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: picked us to finish in the bottom three of the

716
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: Big Twelve and we end up finishing in the top three.

717
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: And you know, five lot of six of the games

718
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: that year, I'm sure you you remember, uh, we're you know,

719
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 1: losses by a possession or so, and the Big Twelve

720
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,320
Speaker 1: was always competitive like that. But my point is we

721
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 1: could have easily finished you know, sin in the conference,

722
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: you could say, or we could have been number one

723
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 1: in the conference and one the Big Twelve conference. So um,

724
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: you know, I'd say the first season was it was

725
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: just an underdog story from the jump um And for

726
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: people who who don't remember you led led Iowa State

727
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: in five statistic categories, it was. It was crazy and

728
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: you decided to go to the NBA Draft. And it

729
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: was interesting because I've seen you tweeting about Draymond and

730
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: like you were Draymond kind of before Draymond Um in

731
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 1: that you could guard any position, you could handle the basketball,

732
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 1: you could defend in the post, like there's just you

733
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: were like a Swiss army knife um of of a

734
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: basketball player because of your latter athleticism, your strength, your

735
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 1: ball handling, and and your passing skills. But but but

736
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: the the flying thing had had that come up when

737
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: you're at Iowa State, like did did you fly? Did

738
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: did you have? What were your issues? Like there, I said,

739
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: I was Draymond at the same time as Draymond. Um,

740
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 1: you know, Draymond, Me and Draymond came on the same

741
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 1: draft and Draymond led his team enforced statistical category at

742
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 1: Michigan State. You just didn't have the fifth one and um,

743
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 1: you know. So, I mean that's that's very very close

744
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: to the same thing. Um, there's there's start differences between

745
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 1: Draymond's game and my game. I think, uh, Draymond is

746
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: more of a hustle player. I'm more of a forceful, vanesse,

747
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 1: more masotical player. Offensively, I think that Draymond passed the

748
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: ball well, and he's shown that he's passed the ball well,

749
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 1: uh in in a system. In a system, Um, I

750
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,320
Speaker 1: passed the ball well in general, you know. And I

751
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: have a I have a real I have a real

752
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: point guard handle. He has a point forward handle, so

753
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: there's there's star differences in my game. But I love Draymond.

754
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 1: He's a Midwest kid and he's touching his mails and

755
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: he plays with passion and I just absolutely love him. Uh.

756
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: And we we went through the entire draft process together

757
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 1: and our individual workouts as well, along with Mike Scott

758
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: and a few other guys. So you know, I always

759
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: have a soft spot for Draymond. But um, in terms

760
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: of the flying piece, you know, it was something that

761
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: I dealt with even in high school in terms of flying,

762
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: like when we would flying with Howard ploy on the circuit,

763
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't like it. Uh. It was something

764
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: that had I had just I had just started having

765
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 1: to fly frequently right around the time I was have

766
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: a panic attack. So going in out of town and

767
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: have a panic attacks, not knowing if you're dying or not,

768
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: because that's what panic attacks feel like, kind of kind

769
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: of gave me a PTSD around traveling in general. On

770
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:30,720
Speaker 1: top of the fact that I really don't like heights,

771
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: and yeah, I'm super uncomfortable thirty thousands seat in the

772
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 1: air in hell, I'm uncomfortable in buildings with uh, with

773
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: with with with the elevator that has more than thirty floors.

774
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: From being honest, but you know, I dealt with it

775
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: when I was in high school, and I dealt with

776
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: it at Iowa State. I flew to every game nearly

777
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: except to I think Kansas State and Missouri UM, but

778
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: every other game I flew to Michigan. When we went

779
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 1: to Michigan and played and all Bross flew there before

780
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 1: the conference play, and uh yeah, it just it was.

781
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 1: It was an issue, but it wasn't an issue that

782
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 1: kept me from playing. It wasn't an issue that kept

783
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: me from playing at a very high level, like an

784
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: historic level. I don't I don't think there's many players

785
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: in the history of the instead of later led their

786
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: team in all five stats, and I certainly don't think

787
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: there's many of the Power six Conference. I know there's

788
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 1: not many in the Big twelves UM. So yeah, the

789
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 1: flying was an issue, but it was never an issue

790
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: that stopped me from playing at a very high level. Okay,

791
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: so when did it when during the was during the

792
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,760
Speaker 1: draft process? Was it after you were drafted? Like? When

793
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 1: when when did this happen? That? You know, it gets

794
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: out that a Royce White he he doesn't he doesn't

795
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: like flying, and that becomes an issue with the Eastern Rockets. Yeah,

796
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: I mean it was always out. I talked about having

797
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 1: anxiety and not liking to fly before the draft. I

798
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 1: talked about it through the draft process, which the media

799
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: doesn't get to see and fans don't get to be

800
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: a part of. But you know, I talked openly about

801
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 1: my anxiety to the draft process. When I went to

802
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 1: my interviews with the teams, during individual workouts, I talked

803
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 1: about my anxiety and and and my fear of flying,

804
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: and everybody was aware of it. Um, it never really

805
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 1: became a Royce doesn't like to fly, and now there's

806
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,760
Speaker 1: an issue. We solved the traveling issue. If if people

807
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: would read post them up and go back and and

808
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: really take a fine to comb to uh, the media

809
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: and the and the sequence of events. The first thing

810
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 1: that the Eastern Rockets wanted to address with the traveling

811
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 1: because that was the issue that everybody was talking about.

812
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: It was unique that this basketball player doesn't like to

813
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: fly and how that effect his career because they fly

814
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 1: so much, and you know, people have short memories that

815
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: it's not so long ago that they only took buses

816
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 1: in in the n B A Uh for NBA players,

817
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: I know, thirty forty years seems a lot, but but

818
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: not to me, um, I read an hundred years fans.

819
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 1: But anyway, UM. So they wanted to address that issue

820
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 1: first because it was the one on the table, and

821
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 1: to them, that would solve the issue. And what I

822
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,760
Speaker 1: and the doctors involved told them at the time is, uh,

823
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 1: that's not the issue. Anxiety isn't just about phobias. His

824
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,720
Speaker 1: anxiety isn't just about phobias. The treatment of anxiety isn't

825
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 1: just the band dating of a phobia or or trying

826
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,280
Speaker 1: to uh, you know, navigate around the spear of flying.

827
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 1: That's that's not it. But they want to do that anyway, uh,

828
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: which was part of an arrogance that they showed throughout

829
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: the process of us talking about mental health, and that

830
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: they still showed us this day. And what we decided

831
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 1: was that I'd be able to drive the games, impossible

832
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: to fly when I had to. And and that's a

833
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: totally reasonable, reasonable plan. I think all the doctors agreed

834
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 1: to it. The NBA didn't want to agree to it.

835
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 1: They actually threatened the Eastern Rockets. From my understanding with

836
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 1: salad chappains, fringemen and kendal tas and fines and whatnot.

837
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: Uh and I had to threaten to not play and

838
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: go to arbitration in that scenario. But Royce, Royce, the

839
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 1: reality of it is like how would it work? Right? Like, like,

840
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 1: let's just be really like, how does it? I mean yeah,

841
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: I mean outside of like could yeah, like you, but

842
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 1: how are you going to travel in the NBA? How

843
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 1: are you gonna travel in the NBA by by bus

844
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 1: or by private car? I understand you could get in

845
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 1: your car any question. No, it's not no, no no, no, no, no,

846
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: wait a second, wait to second waiting. First of all,

847
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: does see you're you're showing the same level of arrogainst

848
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: that the NBA shows and the same level of flippancy

849
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 1: that the fans show on the internet. And that's that's

850
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 1: just the cultural issue. We'll get to that later, hopefully.

851
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:50,320
Speaker 1: But what we'll get you right now is how I

852
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: just told you that a group of professional medical medical

853
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: professionals agreed with the plan. I'm not talking about professional

854
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: medical I I understand, I understand you have anxiety. I'm

855
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: talking about I'm talking about just the just the look

856
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: in terms of logistics to it. You're kie logistics first,

857
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 1: you want to make sure hold on first. I wanted

858
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 1: to make sure that that it's understood that from where

859
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 1: I stood and where the medical professional stood, that this

860
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 1: was a totally reasonable plan from a medical standpoint. Now,

861
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,399
Speaker 1: if we want to go into logistics, and that's that's

862
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 1: the second note that will go into and we can

863
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 1: go into that logistically. Let's not act like the NBA

864
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,720
Speaker 1: isn't regional based. All of the teams are regional based.

865
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 1: It's a five hour drive from Minnesota to Chicago. It's

866
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 1: an even shorter drive from from Chicago to Milwaukee. It's

867
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: a shorter drive from Milwaukee to Indiana Indianapolis. It's a

868
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,839
Speaker 1: shorter drive from Indianapolis to Detroit. These are all five

869
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: hour drive, so it's not impossible. In the East Coast

870
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 1: is even closer. If I'm not mistaken. JJ Reddick actually

871
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: drives from Brooklyn to Shilly every day for practice. He

872
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: lives in Brooklyn. Correct, it's it's up, it's an hour

873
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: and if you play so so so, so let's just

874
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: let's just take the Houston Rockets. Let's take the Houston

875
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: Rockets schedule this year, and I keep in mind, hold on,

876
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 1: wait a second, Wait a second. Did you just hear

877
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 1: me say San Antonio, Dallas, Houston. Yeah, but again you're

878
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: you're not you're taking you're taking out the royce. You're

879
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:23,959
Speaker 1: taking out the logistics to it. Like you play a game,

880
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 1: and if you play the next day in San Antonio,

881
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: you think you're you're gonna get in a car and

882
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 1: drive the next town after the game, like we did,

883
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 1: when like I, like I played, I played on a

884
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: tour too, after second played a team. After a second,

885
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: wait a second, does if you have the next day game,

886
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: if you have a back to back, and that would

887
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: be a situation I would fly to but and and

888
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: maybe not if we if we play listen on the

889
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 1: way to say, first of all, the drive from San

890
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: Antonio to Houston is three hours. From Dallas to Houston

891
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: is three hours. So we got playing at at ten

892
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 1: thirty and in Dallas and had a game back in

893
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: Houston or vice versa. I'd be back in Houston or

894
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 1: the other place at two o'clock in the morning, and

895
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 1: I'd be I'd be sleeping in the car on the

896
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,959
Speaker 1: way there. I wasn't gonna drive myself. I had a bus.

897
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 1: I had an RV, so it's it's not like, come on,

898
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 1: you're talking to two or three hours like I mean

899
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: again again questions. Let me ask you a question. Do

900
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 1: you think everybody Do you think everybody that gets on

901
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: that plane after those games on the back to back

902
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 1: actually go straight to sleep? And what do you think

903
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 1: about the quality of sleep on the plane. You're not

904
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: getting good sleeping until you get to the hotel anyway,

905
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: So whether it takes me two hours, an hour, thirty minutes,

906
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 1: or three hours doesn't really matter. The point is that

907
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:49,799
Speaker 1: many of the games on the schedule are drival boat.

908
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 1: There's no doubt about that. It's a very regionally based

909
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 1: UH League location wise, the East Coast to try state

910
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 1: areas specifically, but also the Midwest and the South. If

911
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: you go to the West coast, maybe a little different.

912
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: But there are tons of games I could have drove too.

913
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,399
Speaker 1: But the point is that I never said I wouldn't fly,

914
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 1: refused the fly. I asked to be able to drive

915
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 1: when I could. The doctors agreed. The NBA had to

916
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: agree because the doctors agreed and they didn't want to

917
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 1: and and so that was the start of a much

918
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: bigger policy conversation that we under that through that process

919
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:24,479
Speaker 1: we uncovered that there really was no concree language about

920
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,360
Speaker 1: mental health at all in the collective bargain agreement. And

921
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: so what the NBA did out of spite was pushed

922
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 1: the story about the flyne so they didn't have to

923
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 1: have a conversation about policy. And now you're here talking

924
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 1: about the logistics of the flying and driving again, like

925
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:41,839
Speaker 1: like in true NBA shill fashion, I'm not an NBA.

926
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: I'm not a NBA shill. I'm looking at the Houston Rockets.

927
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 1: I think just talking about it like the shill would do,

928
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 1: that's I'm I'm actually just having a regular conversation because look,

929
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 1: I played. I'll never forget I played on a tour

930
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 1: team after I got done an opal mistake. I was

931
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: supposed to play overseas. I didn't get my pass forward

932
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 1: for ISRAELI passed forward. I go to c B A

933
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 1: cut in CB A would play the Remember the old

934
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 1: used to play was Athletes in Action e A sports.

935
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 1: And you know you played eight games and eight nights

936
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,799
Speaker 1: and you could you could do it if you were

937
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 1: all but like, look the Rockets played November three. They

938
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: played in Chicago. The fifth they played in Indiana. Now

939
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 1: you could make it easy. It's not a crazy drive

940
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: from Chicago to Indiana. Not crazy at all. Okay. On

941
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: the other hand, on the other hand, on the other hand,

942
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 1: like first they played in Brooklyn, Okay, then the next

943
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 1: night they played in Chicago. That's one that you'd have

944
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 1: to fly to right then you then then you okay,

945
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: then you have a day off. But again you're a

946
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 1: rookie and are you rolling in are you rolling in

947
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 1: late and missing practice or whatever I'm I'm And then

948
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 1: they played in Oklahoma City, and then they play in

949
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: San Antonio, and then they play in Denver, and you

950
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:57,919
Speaker 1: have a Cleveland in Washington, back to back night drive.

951
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 1: It's not an easy drive. It's it's drivable. It's not

952
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,720
Speaker 1: an easy drive. I made the drive. It's not easy.

953
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:08,319
Speaker 1: But the point the point, it's an eight hour drive.

954
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 1: So the point the point is that's not hard. Yeah, Royce, Like,

955
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:15,760
Speaker 1: I'm not arguing with you that it can be done,

956
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: but I also understand that they're sitting there going like,

957
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 1: this guy's a rookie in the n b A, and hell,

958
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: we don't know. They're not They're not built and this

959
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 1: is probably part of your argument is they're not built

960
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 1: to deal. If the status a second, if the status

961
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 1: of your tenure in a corporation or institution of any

962
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 1: sort effect their respect for medical medical recommendation, then there's

963
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 1: a true undermining and and dismissal of the validity of

964
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,800
Speaker 1: the field of science number one, but the field of medicine,

965
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 1: and that is the fundamental issue here. That's the arrogance

966
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 1: that can't be collering. No, you're looking at this. No,

967
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 1: you're you're looking at this the wrong way. I've been

968
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,359
Speaker 1: I've worked for three corporations. Your veteran doesn't matter when

969
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 1: it comes to the fact that medical professionals have recommended this.

970
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: What I got that, But you're you're looking at it,

971
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 1: You're you're telling me, you're telling me what it's like. Well,

972
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:17,399
Speaker 1: if if if they want you to do it their way,

973
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 1: that's their problem because they're a closed minded corporation. And

974
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:24,240
Speaker 1: I'll just tell you this, like I worked quickly. Essentially,

975
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 1: what you're saying, you're saying that they're not taking a

976
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: medical recommendation because you're a rookie. Yet what I hold on,

977
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: what I'm saying is that's not what I'm saying, that's

978
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: what you're saying, don't paraphrase what I'm saying. What I'm

979
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:42,879
Speaker 1: saying is this. What I'm saying is that their attitude

980
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 1: towards mental health is a sign of a lack of

981
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 1: awareness and ignorance around the Mitzell topic, which is a

982
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:54,759
Speaker 1: poor component of overall hills. And it's also assigned by

983
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: that measure of their lack of respect and their lack

984
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:02,360
Speaker 1: of understanding of overall hill and a combination between the two. See,

985
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 1: it's much deeper than oh, you guys are just closed minded,

986
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 1: or it's just me against you. No, it's actually you

987
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 1: against yourself. And now seven years later, Adam Silver has

988
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,919
Speaker 1: to walk on stage and talk about a generational anxiety

989
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 1: that that not only it lives amongst the society, which

990
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 1: they weren't willing to admit then that when I said it,

991
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: but specifically in the n b A, specifically with the

992
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 1: best players in the NBA, like the Kyrie Irvings who

993
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 1: were talking about specifically with Bill Simmons. So now he

994
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:32,879
Speaker 1: has to go on stage and admit that. So that's

995
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 1: what I was telling them back then, that this isn't

996
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 1: just about me flying driving or my anxiety or these

997
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 1: medical professionals who you should listen to. This is about you, guys,

998
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 1: and the thing that we're trying to talk about actually

999
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: affects you, guys more than you want to a real admit,

1000
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:55,919
Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. Well, if you want to pick

1001
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:59,839
Speaker 1: bones with what I'm saying, pick bones with just saying

1002
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 1: I would get like, look, you can't what I'm saying

1003
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 1: because it's categorically like you're unnecessary admitted. How can you

1004
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,840
Speaker 1: go on the line and defend the corporation that's already

1005
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: admitted to all of the claims that I'm making. I'm

1006
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 1: actually not just. I'm actually not just. I'm not disputing

1007
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 1: that they don't know how to deal with people with anxiety.

1008
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 1: Then you do that, No, No, they do know how

1009
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 1: to deal with it. They chose not to deal with

1010
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 1: it the right way. There's a difference in that not

1011
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 1: knowing how to deal with something and then choosing to

1012
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 1: deal with it an improper way. So don't make it

1013
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 1: seem like the two are linear, because they're definitely not,

1014
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 1: in by my account, not from a more ethical standpoint.

1015
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 1: From a more ethical standpoint, if you know how to

1016
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 1: do something and you know it's proper to do it

1017
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 1: that way, and you choose not to, you have transgressed. Yeah,

1018
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 1: i'd say from their from their standpoint, they sit there

1019
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 1: and go like, yeah, you're always talking about from their standpoint,

1020
00:53:55,760 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 1: that's my point. You have to do from their saver point.

1021
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:04,280
Speaker 1: Their doctors, the people who they trust with their medical

1022
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:07,840
Speaker 1: decisions at the highest level, told them that they have

1023
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: a real gap in mental health policy. That this twenty

1024
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 1: one year old kid was smart enough to read to

1025
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:15,959
Speaker 1: his collected bard In agreement. He figured it out. Take

1026
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 1: that on the chin. Don't take it as a sign

1027
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 1: of arrogance, don't take it as a as an insult.

1028
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: Take it for the fact that you guys told him

1029
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:25,839
Speaker 1: to read these dostuments. He did it, and now he's

1030
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,479
Speaker 1: found this piece that pertains desistently to him, but into

1031
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 1: the entire league, and if you actually implement the policy

1032
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:33,719
Speaker 1: that he's talking about that we agree with, it will

1033
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 1: help the entire league and a lot of other players

1034
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,319
Speaker 1: will come forward and start to get the treatment that

1035
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,439
Speaker 1: they've been that they've been missing. And seven years later,

1036
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 1: that is categorically the case. History tells us the truth.

1037
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 1: So there is no their side, their side from their standpoints.

1038
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 1: They were wrong. They're on the wrong side of history,

1039
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 1: and anybody who's trying to defend them is also on

1040
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,719
Speaker 1: the wrong side of history. You're looking at this in

1041
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 1: terms of policy of mental health care. I'm looking at

1042
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:02,320
Speaker 1: it as a dude, you should be playing and starting

1043
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 1: in the n b A and you're not. And the

1044
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 1: you don't see a problem with that. You don't see

1045
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 1: a problem with that frame, that that viewpoint, that worldview,

1046
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 1: that your starting point would be, Hey, dude, you should

1047
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 1: be starting in the NBA, and my worldview is is

1048
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: actually about mental health policy has pertains to the NBA

1049
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 1: and the greater society. You don't see the star difference

1050
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:25,359
Speaker 1: in those two viewpoints. I I do, actually, which which

1051
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 1: brings me to you? Do you see the clarity in

1052
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:33,720
Speaker 1: my viewpoint versus yours? Um? Mind's more of a question

1053
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 1: of a question. Mind more of a question, Okay, because

1054
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 1: I think that one thing that I would I would

1055
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:45,399
Speaker 1: guess and maybe again I'm just I should be playing

1056
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 1: in the NBA is an all star, That's true, And

1057
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 1: I would have had they not tried to play a

1058
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: game with their ego and pride and played fast and

1059
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:54,840
Speaker 1: loose with the truth, which I have the same accusation

1060
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:58,759
Speaker 1: of much of the media, and they're one organization. People

1061
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 1: don't know that, the fans don't really know that. But

1062
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 1: you and I know that. You and I know that

1063
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 1: the NBA and ESPN and stopped are all partners under

1064
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 1: Walt Disney's umbrella. So so let's not playing the game

1065
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 1: because I'm very good at it. I'm i'm I'm I'm

1066
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:12,319
Speaker 1: I'm elite at it as a matter of fact, And

1067
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:14,840
Speaker 1: that's why they don't like me. That's why I'm not playing.

1068
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 1: The NBA is about whether I could fly or not.

1069
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:19,719
Speaker 1: It's not about anxiety. It's about the fact that if

1070
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 1: you let somebody tell the truth long enough, it will

1071
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 1: eventually start to compromise all the places in your life

1072
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 1: that you need to lie in order to maintain your position.

1073
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:31,840
Speaker 1: So they'll keep walking the cover back until it reaches

1074
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 1: the place where you least wanted to reach. And or

1075
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 1: or there's or there's a basketball element to it, right

1076
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 1: and the basketball great problem with me driving from Chicago

1077
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 1: to Middlewaukeee. This player is sitting out for for for

1078
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 1: load management. What kind of pseudo science is that I like?

1079
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:53,319
Speaker 1: I like what join bet said, or your Yana said

1080
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 1: the best. Janice was asked at the end of the season,

1081
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 1: are you gonna sit out because you guys are out

1082
00:56:57,320 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 1: in front of says of course not. Of course I'm

1083
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 1: not said out. I love to play. Why would I

1084
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 1: sit out? I don't need to sit out. This whole

1085
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:06,680
Speaker 1: load management thing is a is a byproduct of the

1086
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 1: dismissal of mental health. When you're talking about fatigue, you're

1087
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 1: not just talking about physical fatigue. There's mental fatigue. Your

1088
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 1: mind is what prepares your body to do the job

1089
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 1: that you ask it to do. So when players get

1090
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 1: mentally fatigued, they not only they not only tells their

1091
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 1: body that they're fatigue, but there's an actual catalyzation of

1092
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 1: physical fatigue from mental fatigue. And that's why the mental

1093
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 1: policy superseded Royce in his anxiety, because the season may

1094
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 1: be too long, and people's load management may be more

1095
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 1: about their mental fatigue than it is their actual physical fatigue. Okay,

1096
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 1: so there's not a basketball element to it. So don't

1097
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 1: try and pigeonhold of their side relative because if you

1098
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: want to side relative side track, it only gets better

1099
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 1: for me. It only gets better for me Kawhi later

1100
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: situation was just as much mental and a spat with

1101
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 1: the team as it was his physical injury. And we

1102
00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 1: all know that the same thing could be said for

1103
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:01,959
Speaker 1: Derrick Rows and he came back and the team doctor said,

1104
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 1: he's physically ready to play, but he's not mentally ready

1105
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 1: to play. This idea is not new, It's been verified,

1106
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 1: It's been at firmed by players testimony, by gene testimony,

1107
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 1: by coach testimony, et cetera. The only people who don't

1108
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 1: want to give into it are the media who don't

1109
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 1: like the fact that it would change the power pair

1110
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 1: of time in the favor of the athletes, because you

1111
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 1: guys like to take shot at the athletes whenever you want,

1112
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: and and this really changes that. This caused you to

1113
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 1: be a little more understanding, a little more empathetic, because

1114
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 1: it puts a mirror up to your own mental health

1115
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 1: in a very in a very uh divisceral way in

1116
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 1: the ownership and there's there's still pictures. Who are the

1117
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 1: g ms son't the only people don't want accept it,

1118
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 1: and they don't want to accept it. Back then, the

1119
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 1: doctor said, listen, this is a profound opportunity for the

1120
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 1: NBA to improve their products, the brand, the basketball. Because

1121
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 1: here's this is the question. Like, look, it's a it's

1122
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 1: still a it's a performance based business. It's a it's

1123
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 1: like like you're you're you're bringing listen, listen, You're you're one.

1124
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 1: You're bring up great point, you're bringing up great points. No, one, actually,

1125
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:16,680
Speaker 1: not outside my lane. I'm asking it. I'm asking a

1126
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: question that somebody else's Royce. Look, dude, that's my podcast.

1127
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 1: It's my podcast. We don't want to what they don't

1128
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 1: talk about performance. When listen started with the word performance,

1129
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 1: tails me, you're outside your lane. No, I'm not. No,

1130
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 1: I'm not listen, listen. It's the reason that Kawhi Leonard

1131
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:41,440
Speaker 1: cannot play for a year and then everybody and every

1132
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 1: hold on and everybody in the NBA still wants him

1133
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 1: is because he has already performed at a You you

1134
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 1: don't care, Royce, I don't care. What I'm pointing out

1135
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: is very simple. Okay. You bring up Derrick Crows. It's

1136
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 1: a good point. You bring up Quiet Leonard, it's a

1137
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:02,640
Speaker 1: good point. Okay, you talk about mental fatigue. These are

1138
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 1: good points. Okay, but those guys got to play and

1139
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 1: excel in the NBA and have gotten second and sometimes

1140
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:12,919
Speaker 1: third lives. And I'm asking you a legitimate question, why

1141
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: have those guys gotten that opportunity and you did not.

1142
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:20,400
Speaker 1: I don't under that part. I don't understand, and you're

1143
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:22,640
Speaker 1: sitting here telling me they don't understand in the media

1144
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:25,560
Speaker 1: and were against it. And I'm not against anything. I

1145
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:28,920
Speaker 1: just want to know why you haven't help you. I

1146
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:30,920
Speaker 1: just laid it out for you. I just laid out

1147
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 1: for you why I got it wide and get another chance.

1148
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:36,280
Speaker 1: And they did. They were challenging policy in their second

1149
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 1: and third life. They did salent policy in their first life.

1150
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 1: They just had an issue, they had an ailment or

1151
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 1: they had a physical injury that they were disappointed about

1152
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 1: that that was tragic. And then they came back and

1153
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 1: they were just looking for another chance to play. And

1154
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 1: there was no stat about anything other than the fact

1155
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:56,440
Speaker 1: of who really feels which way about it personally on

1156
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:59,440
Speaker 1: the inside. What I talked about when straight about highest

1157
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 1: levels of the NBA's business, their business model and all

1158
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 1: of their partners as well. Because the mentalth conversation and

1159
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 1: it's and it's neglect isn't just about the NBA the

1160
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 1: sports world. It's about the world. That's why I didn't

1161
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 1: get another chances because my conversation wasn't just about my

1162
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:20,640
Speaker 1: knee or my anxiety. My conversation was, you guys have

1163
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:24,200
Speaker 1: neglected the mental health topics. It's here now because I

1164
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 1: was drafted with anxiety. I have to navigate this this domain,

1165
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 1: this industry transparently and honestly. And as such, the messalth

1166
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 1: conversation has to come to fruition now, and any coming

1167
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 1: to fruition, there were a bunch of things that came

1168
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 1: with it that they didn't want to have to accept, Like,

1169
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 1: for example, the performance models that you guys had previous

1170
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 1: didn't accrupt for the mental health factor. Now they will,

1171
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 1: and not only will they, they will be dominant because

1172
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:58,920
Speaker 1: we know fundamentally scientifically, if you have human commodities, they

1173
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 1: performed better when they feel better. That's actually not a

1174
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 1: new idea or profound idea. All of our athletes have

1175
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 1: told us that throughout history, and the best coaches actually

1176
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 1: had utilized that when when players or humans feel better,

1177
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 1: they performed better. They don't want to accept that. They

1178
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:22,919
Speaker 1: also there's also there's also realities of it, right, It's like,

1179
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 1: would they be smart to cut the schedule from maybe

1180
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:27,680
Speaker 1: two games. Of course they would it's too many games,

1181
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 1: too many games. But but the problem with it is

1182
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 1: they have their their partners with ESPN, with t NT,

1183
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 1: all those all those arenas have you know, forty one

1184
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 1: home dates, and all those vendors have forty one home dates,

1185
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 1: and then the entire business model is built upon everyone

1186
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 1: depending on forty one home dates and a certain number

1187
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:50,680
Speaker 1: of TV games. And so somebody's gonna have to give

1188
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 1: back money, and no one wants to give back any money.

1189
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 1: And so they're like, let's just keep playing any two

1190
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 1: games and we'll have guys sit out, and that's how

1191
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 1: we'll handle it. That's that's generally well, but doub so.

1192
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 1: You my my frustration with you and with most of

1193
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 1: the media and with fans, and you know, it's not

1194
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 1: it's not personal. It's just a it's just a matter

1195
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 1: of of of of of intellectual integrity. It's like you

1196
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 1: just went through and asked me why I didn't get

1197
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:20,240
Speaker 1: the chance that the second chance Choir Derek or whoever

1198
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 1: you want to say, may have gotten. You just said

1199
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 1: it right there. Nothing they were asking about, nothing they

1200
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,680
Speaker 1: were challenging, went that deep into the pocket. You just

1201
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:31,240
Speaker 1: had to do with their individual salary. Maybe maybe not

1202
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 1: in there's case. I mean it was kind of like, well,

1203
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 1: your your contracts fired now and put you on the minimum.

1204
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 1: What you with Kauai was a little bit different because

1205
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:41,560
Speaker 1: there was there was a huge, huge, uh you know,

1206
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:45,240
Speaker 1: pursuit of him as a free agent. But the point

1207
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:48,440
Speaker 1: is that you just said it. You just answered the question.

1208
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:52,160
Speaker 1: So for me, like as the litmus test for asking

1209
01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 1: a question is if I can answer it myself, then

1210
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,800
Speaker 1: I don't really ask you. You know, that's just me personally.

1211
01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 1: But you you answered the question it was about. But

1212
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:03,680
Speaker 1: here's the issue. It's way deeper than money. It's about

1213
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 1: money on the surface, it's about money as a defense mechanism.

1214
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:09,760
Speaker 1: We can say we're a business. We're a business first,

1215
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:13,800
Speaker 1: so the money dominates our choice. But here's the issue

1216
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:18,280
Speaker 1: with that. The mental health topic actually lends a perspective

1217
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:22,440
Speaker 1: into a deeper issue below the money. Because every company

1218
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 1: around the world that has integrated mental health UH practices

1219
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:31,320
Speaker 1: or mental health programs or mental health acknowledgement within their

1220
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 1: workplace has seen a proventtivity increase. It's only health their business.

1221
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:40,760
Speaker 1: So here we're talking about a situation where it might

1222
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:43,760
Speaker 1: not be only about the money, and that deeper issue,

1223
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:47,439
Speaker 1: that deeper resents, that deeper apprehension that the league had

1224
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:51,400
Speaker 1: around me is what I'm interested in, and I think

1225
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:53,280
Speaker 1: it's what a lot of other people should be interested in.

1226
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:55,840
Speaker 1: And I have a hunch, I have a real hunch

1227
01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 1: that there's a real fear still of black male athletes

1228
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 1: have political acumen. And that's what I exhibited. Their growth

1229
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 1: wasn't exhibiting no political actumen. He heard his knee. That

1230
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:09,840
Speaker 1: was that Kawhi Leonard had an injury. He was in

1231
01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 1: a free agency you know, uh space, and you know

1232
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:16,680
Speaker 1: his future was in his hands, you could say, because

1233
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 1: he was highly sought after. I was a kid that

1234
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:24,360
Speaker 1: came in way way beforehand proactively, which is how we

1235
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 1: should approached issues proactively, and said here's what's going on,

1236
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:30,960
Speaker 1: here's how I see it, Let me read, let me

1237
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:33,320
Speaker 1: do the the due diligence and see what's actually going

1238
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 1: on under the hood. Did the diagnostic guys don't have

1239
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 1: a policy. Oh, by the way, you're seriously afoot or

1240
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:43,560
Speaker 1: astray when it comes to your your view on overall health.

1241
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 1: And we need to fix that. And we can fix it,

1242
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 1: and all of these people who worked for you on

1243
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:50,840
Speaker 1: the medical side agree that we can fix it. All

1244
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:52,880
Speaker 1: you have to do is listen to them. They have

1245
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:55,600
Speaker 1: so much contempt for a young black male athlete speaking

1246
01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:57,800
Speaker 1: the truth in a political way that they weren't even

1247
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:00,160
Speaker 1: listen to the other white males that they hired and

1248
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:03,520
Speaker 1: trust for their medicine in every other situation. That's the

1249
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:06,880
Speaker 1: deep issue that we have to get to. Am Alright,

1250
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:10,240
Speaker 1: So here's here's here's here's the last thing. Do you

1251
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 1: have Do you have any regret from this standpoint? Had

1252
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 1: you just gone along and then like, look, I'm just

1253
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:22,240
Speaker 1: gonna play your game and I'm gonna I'm gonna buy

1254
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:25,400
Speaker 1: in and been an NBA player and then a crude

1255
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 1: kind of the equity of being an NBA player, maybe

1256
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 1: an NBA All Star, would you would you have gotten

1257
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 1: more behind your push for mental health care awareness? Do

1258
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:39,920
Speaker 1: you understand understand what's saying like you'd have a higher

1259
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:46,360
Speaker 1: platform you have? No, No, not Not only do I

1260
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 1: not have any regret? The answer is no. To the

1261
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 1: point that you're making, it's it's it's just so cookie cutter.

1262
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:55,080
Speaker 1: But it's so cookie cutter. I'm trying to I'm trying

1263
01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 1: to walk you into a into a space that is

1264
01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:04,040
Speaker 1: that is actually start to see. UH. A platform has

1265
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:08,600
Speaker 1: to start with the ground, uh, the ground elements of

1266
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:12,560
Speaker 1: genuineness and when when a when a platform doesn't start

1267
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:15,040
Speaker 1: that way, it doesn't matter what you do or how

1268
01:07:15,080 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 1: long do you wait when you start to to address

1269
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:22,080
Speaker 1: whatever that issue may be or whatever that problem may be,

1270
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:25,160
Speaker 1: If the genuineness isn't there, then it's not gonna be

1271
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:27,520
Speaker 1: there later. There's no amount of equity that I could

1272
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:30,680
Speaker 1: have accrued to make a group of people who don't

1273
01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:33,439
Speaker 1: want to have a conversation because it digs right down

1274
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:37,120
Speaker 1: to the deepest, the deepest questions of being human and

1275
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:42,640
Speaker 1: the responsibility UH as individuals and collectively digs right down

1276
01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:45,160
Speaker 1: to the deepest points of that There's there's no amount

1277
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:47,920
Speaker 1: of rebounds or points or assists that I could have

1278
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:50,240
Speaker 1: gotten that would have made it okay to have that

1279
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:52,880
Speaker 1: conversation the way I wanted to have it. Now I

1280
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:54,959
Speaker 1: could have had the conversation the way Kevin Love wants

1281
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:58,240
Speaker 1: to have it, because Kevin Love ain't challenging no policies.

1282
01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:02,520
Speaker 1: Tell Kevin Love been challenging the status quot He told

1283
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 1: an individual story. And I say, Kevin loved because you

1284
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:08,360
Speaker 1: used the frame of reference of becoming an All Star

1285
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:10,880
Speaker 1: and just you know, it's perfect. Kevin. Kevin Love is

1286
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:13,840
Speaker 1: Kevin Love is perfect. He's absolutely perfect for argument, Go ahead.

1287
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:18,040
Speaker 1: He's not challenging the status quo, Doug. All he did

1288
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:21,000
Speaker 1: was tell a story about his own experience with anxiety,

1289
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 1: which I'm very proud of him for doing and totally

1290
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:25,920
Speaker 1: support and love that he did it. And I love

1291
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 1: the way he speaks about anxiety. I think he spot

1292
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:31,120
Speaker 1: on when he says everyone struggles. Um, but he's not

1293
01:08:31,280 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 1: challenging anything, and he couldn't challenge anything with the equity

1294
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:37,799
Speaker 1: that he's a crowd and I don't even think Lebron

1295
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:40,760
Speaker 1: James could. And that's why through this so much of conversation,

1296
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:44,200
Speaker 1: Lebron and all his equity has remained pretty quiet, hasn't

1297
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:46,920
Speaker 1: it Because he knows that there's some issues that they

1298
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:49,639
Speaker 1: just won't Ben darned, And I'm willing to cross that

1299
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:56,160
Speaker 1: line if certain people aren't, Doug. No. I mean, there's

1300
01:08:56,160 --> 01:09:01,960
Speaker 1: a difference between trail blazers and leaders and followers. I mean,

1301
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:04,040
Speaker 1: I would say, but you also said that people are

1302
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 1: afraid of black men with political aspirations. I would say

1303
01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:11,000
Speaker 1: Lebron James has political aspirations. I would say the NBA

1304
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 1: is the NBA is a league that has allowed their

1305
01:09:14,200 --> 01:09:17,360
Speaker 1: their players to speak out politically, as opposed to the NFL.

1306
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:23,400
Speaker 1: Every stuff. I have a I have a very uh

1307
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:25,200
Speaker 1: and you know we we we didn't. We didn't. We

1308
01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 1: didn't ran into each other when I was in college,

1309
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:28,960
Speaker 1: So this goes way back. But I have a very

1310
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:32,120
Speaker 1: strong belief that you have the ability to see past

1311
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:36,559
Speaker 1: the examples that you're presenting. And I got respect from Lebron.

1312
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get to him on a whole another note

1313
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 1: and a whole another form of fashion. Um. But but

1314
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:46,519
Speaker 1: just simply put um. He put out a document by

1315
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:51,360
Speaker 1: Muhammad Aligue. Let's just use that for example. UM. In

1316
01:09:51,400 --> 01:09:56,640
Speaker 1: my opinion, the sign of a true leader is the

1317
01:09:56,760 --> 01:10:00,559
Speaker 1: thing that they do or say immediately compromise their own

1318
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:06,640
Speaker 1: position and what could be as fatal or uh irreconcilable way.

1319
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:10,040
Speaker 1: So when Muhammad Ali said listen, not only was Muhammad

1320
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:13,240
Speaker 1: Ali already uh on the sense of being like or

1321
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:15,559
Speaker 1: not like because of how how spoken he wasn't saying

1322
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:18,960
Speaker 1: he was the greatest way early UH. Then he was

1323
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:20,640
Speaker 1: a part of the Nation of Islam, which was not

1324
01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:25,800
Speaker 1: only frowned upon by UH the the white community, but

1325
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:28,720
Speaker 1: was found upon within the black community. Eiven. So he

1326
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:31,080
Speaker 1: had that working against him. And then on top of

1327
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:33,719
Speaker 1: all of that, he spoke out against the Vietnam War.

1328
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:37,120
Speaker 1: And on top of speaking out against the war, he said,

1329
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:40,880
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm so against the war, uh that I'm

1330
01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:42,960
Speaker 1: not gonna go to the draft. I mean, I'm not

1331
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:46,360
Speaker 1: gonna go to the army. I'm not accepting the draft induction.

1332
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:48,800
Speaker 1: And if it means that you give me five years

1333
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:51,920
Speaker 1: in prison during the prime of my career, give me

1334
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:55,760
Speaker 1: the five. Lebron James wouldn't give up the prime years

1335
01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:59,439
Speaker 1: of his career for any social issue. And by that standards,

1336
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:03,639
Speaker 1: Muhammad lead being fifty years ago and and and Lebron

1337
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:06,559
Speaker 1: being in real time, and the social issues only have

1338
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:15,240
Speaker 1: become more inflamed, more um, you know, more hot, more troublesome. UH.

1339
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:20,120
Speaker 1: That's the star difference between leaders. I completely agree with you.

1340
01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:25,160
Speaker 1: I complete the deployment, which is anyone who wants what

1341
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:28,800
Speaker 1: if Lebron James ever said or spoken against that doesn't

1342
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:33,280
Speaker 1: already have a support of the country. No, I listen,

1343
01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:36,040
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm I'm not disputing the people who say

1344
01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:40,400
Speaker 1: that such any of these leaders are like Muhammad Ali right,

1345
01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:44,240
Speaker 1: I mean even even Colin Kaepernick. The even Colin Kaepernick,

1346
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:46,720
Speaker 1: they're not. The willingness to give up the prime years

1347
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:49,080
Speaker 1: of your career and willing to go to jail is

1348
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:54,479
Speaker 1: and uh is different. It seems as intense because because

1349
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:58,400
Speaker 1: of social media and the media, and but it's but

1350
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:01,080
Speaker 1: it really really isn't. I'm not disputing it, so you

1351
01:12:01,080 --> 01:12:03,360
Speaker 1: and not just there. But my point, my point to

1352
01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:08,360
Speaker 1: you was to say that, um, they're okay with giving

1353
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:11,519
Speaker 1: certain people platforms that aren't truly a threat. And and

1354
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:16,080
Speaker 1: Lebron James, Um, I think he could be a political threat.

1355
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:19,559
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if he has the acumen, or or

1356
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:23,080
Speaker 1: the desire or the willingness to sacrifice certain things to

1357
01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:25,760
Speaker 1: be that threat. Kylin Kaepernick is a little bit different now.

1358
01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:29,400
Speaker 1: He he walked across that line a little he walked

1359
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:33,280
Speaker 1: across some hotter colds. Um, I'm gonna support of what

1360
01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:36,519
Speaker 1: Kaepernick did. I'm always gonna support free speech. Uh Do

1361
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:38,880
Speaker 1: I agree with everything that that he that he chose

1362
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:41,559
Speaker 1: to do with that platform in that stage. Absolutely not.

1363
01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:44,000
Speaker 1: But but I would stand with him and would have

1364
01:12:44,160 --> 01:12:46,799
Speaker 1: would and would have kneeled with him out of principle

1365
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:48,720
Speaker 1: of the general ethos of what he was of what

1366
01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:50,519
Speaker 1: he was getting at. There is a there is an

1367
01:12:50,520 --> 01:12:53,360
Speaker 1: issue with with the black community and and and injustice

1368
01:12:53,439 --> 01:12:56,720
Speaker 1: that needs to be um addressed if if America is

1369
01:12:56,720 --> 01:12:59,720
Speaker 1: going to calibrate properly in this modern era. But what

1370
01:12:59,880 --> 01:13:01,840
Speaker 1: I have allowed GQ to dress me of like a

1371
01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:06,479
Speaker 1: black panther. No, what I have parted with Nike who

1372
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 1: gets to play both ends of the of the coin, uh,

1373
01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:12,920
Speaker 1: and having the NFL sponsorship and and doing that well,

1374
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:16,280
Speaker 1: and the labor practices that they've been uh you know,

1375
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:20,720
Speaker 1: guilty of, clearly guilty of in the past. Uh. It's

1376
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:23,280
Speaker 1: like justice isn't just about black and white. It should

1377
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:26,479
Speaker 1: it should count for Southeast Asia too. But um yeah,

1378
01:13:26,520 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 1: So I think that a lot of these guys are

1379
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:31,280
Speaker 1: just grandstanding. But I'm not so. I don't like when

1380
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:35,400
Speaker 1: when people try and allude to the idea or or

1381
01:13:35,439 --> 01:13:38,720
Speaker 1: try and uh you know, dismiss or or you know,

1382
01:13:39,160 --> 01:13:42,360
Speaker 1: uh make small of of the sacrifice that I actually

1383
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:45,240
Speaker 1: made because it was the proper one and it wasn't

1384
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:47,400
Speaker 1: evolution of Ali. I didn't. I didn't wait to become

1385
01:13:47,439 --> 01:13:50,439
Speaker 1: the heavyweight champion and has all of the microphones around

1386
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:53,080
Speaker 1: the world in my space to say the Vietnam War

1387
01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:54,840
Speaker 1: is wrong. I said, mental health has to be a

1388
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:58,880
Speaker 1: priority in private with the people whose decisions matter, with

1389
01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:02,519
Speaker 1: the people whose decisions can actually change the circumstance. I

1390
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:05,439
Speaker 1: said it in private. They wanted to take it public.

1391
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:07,640
Speaker 1: There are more wanted to come out and have a

1392
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:10,559
Speaker 1: conversation about about me and sale as a wall and

1393
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:13,760
Speaker 1: all of these other things because they felt the anxiety

1394
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:16,640
Speaker 1: or the pressure of meeting to have an answer for

1395
01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:18,479
Speaker 1: an issue that they knew would come and they needed

1396
01:14:18,479 --> 01:14:20,040
Speaker 1: to get out in front of it. And they have

1397
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:23,400
Speaker 1: such a big machine, as you know, which is why

1398
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:25,599
Speaker 1: you told me to play the game and and build

1399
01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:27,560
Speaker 1: up a net with the end of the machine. I

1400
01:14:27,560 --> 01:14:29,360
Speaker 1: didn't tell you too, I just asked you. I didn't.

1401
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:30,800
Speaker 1: I didn't tell you too. I just asked you. If

1402
01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:33,600
Speaker 1: if you have any I'm not doing it. I apologize.

1403
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:36,559
Speaker 1: I apologize you. You you said you asked the question

1404
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:38,439
Speaker 1: of what that have been better? But my and the

1405
01:14:38,479 --> 01:14:41,160
Speaker 1: reason why I'm telling you this is that the machine

1406
01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:43,200
Speaker 1: is still the machine. The machine is not gonna let

1407
01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:45,720
Speaker 1: you say the thing that needs to be said, no

1408
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:47,320
Speaker 1: matter how much heck, what do you build up? And

1409
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:49,080
Speaker 1: that's why a lot of the issues that we see

1410
01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:52,400
Speaker 1: around the world, but specifically in America between blacks and whites,

1411
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:54,680
Speaker 1: if you want to go even more specific, have not

1412
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:57,120
Speaker 1: gotten much better over the last fifth year, sixty years

1413
01:14:57,160 --> 01:14:59,639
Speaker 1: since Muhammad Ali was there and did what he did

1414
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:03,200
Speaker 1: on the accrifices that error made because the machine is

1415
01:15:03,200 --> 01:15:06,000
Speaker 1: still the machine, and if you wait for the machine

1416
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:08,360
Speaker 1: to green light, you are coast on you to make

1417
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:12,240
Speaker 1: their their machine less convenient. I mean, it's just it's

1418
01:15:12,280 --> 01:15:15,160
Speaker 1: just the nonstarter in many cases. And you see that

1419
01:15:15,200 --> 01:15:17,880
Speaker 1: about you know, and in many cases and many people

1420
01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 1: who speak out about many things in the modern era.

1421
01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:22,640
Speaker 1: Um I was just proactive. I was one of the

1422
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:25,080
Speaker 1: guys who was willing to do it before the life

1423
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:28,040
Speaker 1: Cameras in action hit, you know, full till there was

1424
01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:31,320
Speaker 1: life Cameras in action. But you know, before four years,

1425
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:33,439
Speaker 1: five years, I'm looking at getting a max deal because

1426
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:36,960
Speaker 1: I'm this hyper versatile points forward who who is the

1427
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:40,080
Speaker 1: prototype of where the NBA game is going. Before all

1428
01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:43,360
Speaker 1: of that hit I said mental health needs to be

1429
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:47,080
Speaker 1: the priority. And it's biblical as well, seeks first the

1430
01:15:47,160 --> 01:15:49,160
Speaker 1: Kingdom of God, and all these things will be added.

1431
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:51,720
Speaker 1: Unto you, not to preach to you, but you know

1432
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:54,320
Speaker 1: there's there's a there's an abandonment of God as well

1433
01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:57,880
Speaker 1: that goes right along with this entire narrative, with this

1434
01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:02,280
Speaker 1: entire modern narrative of of of business, you know, business

1435
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:05,640
Speaker 1: neglect and culture. And you know, if it if it

1436
01:16:05,680 --> 01:16:08,120
Speaker 1: makes money, it makes sense and we have the power

1437
01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:10,559
Speaker 1: of leverage, then then we then we rule the day

1438
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:12,840
Speaker 1: or we say what goes and what does it? It's

1439
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:16,920
Speaker 1: just improper. It's improper, and it's unnecessary. Even more so,

1440
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:20,600
Speaker 1: it's way unnecessary, is it. I run to you, is

1441
01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:22,760
Speaker 1: do you think it's coincidence? Do you think it's coincidence

1442
01:16:22,800 --> 01:16:25,000
Speaker 1: that Kevin Love is white and I'm black? And we

1443
01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:28,760
Speaker 1: said basically the same thing. No, because you said it

1444
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:31,240
Speaker 1: wasn't the same thing, because you said, he you're challenging policy,

1445
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:36,439
Speaker 1: like no, no, no, I I honestly don't behind huh,

1446
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:38,960
Speaker 1: behind closed doors, it wasn't the same thing. But I'm

1447
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:44,040
Speaker 1: talking about publicly in the reception and publicly in the

1448
01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:48,439
Speaker 1: the outward um, dissemination of the of the message from

1449
01:16:48,479 --> 01:16:52,360
Speaker 1: the NBA, because the NBA still hasn't talked about policy publicly,

1450
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:55,320
Speaker 1: So let's not let's not bring my PRIs policy into

1451
01:16:55,640 --> 01:16:59,360
Speaker 1: the public. I'm talking about publicly, me and Kevin I

1452
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:05,040
Speaker 1: can't listen. Maybe it's again, maybe I'm naive to it.

1453
01:17:05,200 --> 01:17:06,800
Speaker 1: I think it has to do with the fact the

1454
01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:10,040
Speaker 1: timing of like he disappeared off the bench. He's an

1455
01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:16,120
Speaker 1: NBA champion, he's an All Star like I. I honestly

1456
01:17:16,160 --> 01:17:20,519
Speaker 1: think it's his pedigree, if you will, that that changes

1457
01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:23,599
Speaker 1: the message more than the color of his skin. But

1458
01:17:23,760 --> 01:17:26,000
Speaker 1: again that's you're taking it from a person that I

1459
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:29,519
Speaker 1: don't I just I don't see it that way. But again,

1460
01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:31,679
Speaker 1: I can't tell you what the rest of America things,

1461
01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:33,559
Speaker 1: or with the NBA things, you know what I'm saying,

1462
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:37,160
Speaker 1: Like they'd be unfair for me to think so, um,

1463
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:39,559
Speaker 1: no, no no, no, but but but see, but I've actually

1464
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:41,840
Speaker 1: been in those meetings. See I actually I've actually been

1465
01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:44,200
Speaker 1: behind closed doors with the people who make those decisions.

1466
01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:46,160
Speaker 1: I was actually there when they told me I was

1467
01:17:46,200 --> 01:17:48,559
Speaker 1: too smart for my own good. So when you talk

1468
01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:53,120
Speaker 1: about pedigree, athletic pedigree or accomplishment. I know that there's

1469
01:17:53,120 --> 01:17:55,519
Speaker 1: a layer underneath there that has nothing to do with

1470
01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:57,680
Speaker 1: with the public sees, that has nothing to do with

1471
01:17:57,720 --> 01:18:00,280
Speaker 1: the fans interpretation, that has nothing to do with how

1472
01:18:00,280 --> 01:18:03,960
Speaker 1: they view the basketball. That's a fallacy that they can

1473
01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:06,800
Speaker 1: put out to the fans of the media because it's easy.

1474
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:09,400
Speaker 1: It's cookie cutter. Hey, we're a basketball league, your basketball.

1475
01:18:09,479 --> 01:18:13,160
Speaker 1: It's a meritocracy. No, it's not. No, it's not. Beneath

1476
01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:17,720
Speaker 1: the meritocracy. There are individuals who have very personal agendas.

1477
01:18:17,800 --> 01:18:19,439
Speaker 1: And that group of people told me that I was

1478
01:18:19,479 --> 01:18:21,679
Speaker 1: too smart for my own good. They would never tell

1479
01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:24,519
Speaker 1: Kevin Love he's too smart for his own good. And

1480
01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:26,519
Speaker 1: I've been I've been to listen, I've been told the

1481
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:29,680
Speaker 1: exact same thing Royce, where people when people tell you

1482
01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:32,640
Speaker 1: you're you're you're too smart, it actually it does not.

1483
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:35,439
Speaker 1: It's like, oh that actually you don't like you know,

1484
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:39,479
Speaker 1: like it's you always I always thought growing up, if

1485
01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:42,360
Speaker 1: somebody told you that you were you were bright, and

1486
01:18:42,400 --> 01:18:45,400
Speaker 1: you're prepared, you know, and you you knew more than

1487
01:18:45,439 --> 01:18:47,040
Speaker 1: other people in the room, that that was a good thing.

1488
01:18:47,320 --> 01:18:49,679
Speaker 1: And when you have when you're an adult and people

1489
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:53,400
Speaker 1: say that it actually is a negative from their perspective.

1490
01:18:53,479 --> 01:18:57,519
Speaker 1: So I told you I actually I actually actually see it.

1491
01:18:57,680 --> 01:19:00,639
Speaker 1: I don't know though I was talking about earlier. See

1492
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:03,120
Speaker 1: the reason why I say at the double iracket and

1493
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:06,640
Speaker 1: the reason why it doesn't carry the same um, the

1494
01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:09,760
Speaker 1: same saliency that it does when somebody says it to

1495
01:19:09,840 --> 01:19:13,240
Speaker 1: you is the historical context of black people in America

1496
01:19:13,240 --> 01:19:16,360
Speaker 1: and black men in America. Because how often, as you

1497
01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:18,799
Speaker 1: know from being an athlete and being in the media,

1498
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:24,200
Speaker 1: that the black athlete has been portrayed as and mature,

1499
01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:29,880
Speaker 1: inherent uh, inherently incompetent, lacking of of of intellectual you know,

1500
01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:35,840
Speaker 1: pedigree or or or educational pedigree or or articulation or

1501
01:19:35,960 --> 01:19:39,040
Speaker 1: or you know, a worldliness you know, basically kind of

1502
01:19:39,200 --> 01:19:41,800
Speaker 1: cursed by by the product of the environment that they

1503
01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:44,799
Speaker 1: came from, which is a problematic one in made places

1504
01:19:44,840 --> 01:19:47,439
Speaker 1: in America. UM, So that makes a double iracket. And

1505
01:19:47,439 --> 01:19:51,519
Speaker 1: and also if you go back historically, UM, slavery and

1506
01:19:51,640 --> 01:19:54,680
Speaker 1: the whole the whole oppression of black people that that

1507
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:58,120
Speaker 1: isn't arguable was was predicated on that idea that black

1508
01:19:58,120 --> 01:20:00,880
Speaker 1: people are inherently incompetent, that they're are pretty much only

1509
01:20:00,920 --> 01:20:03,760
Speaker 1: good for labor, and you know, maybe not so much

1510
01:20:03,800 --> 01:20:07,920
Speaker 1: even that that's what you need the whips and chains for. Right. So, UM,

1511
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:10,000
Speaker 1: I don't think that it's the same thing for somebody

1512
01:20:10,040 --> 01:20:12,679
Speaker 1: to tell you you're too smart for your own good

1513
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:15,160
Speaker 1: versus me, I'm too smart for my own good, because

1514
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:17,639
Speaker 1: because I take it as this is exactly what I've

1515
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:21,200
Speaker 1: been called to be from all of the disparaging comments

1516
01:20:21,200 --> 01:20:24,080
Speaker 1: and the and the dispersion that you casted amongst my,

1517
01:20:24,080 --> 01:20:27,680
Speaker 1: my counterparts or or or my like skinned people, is

1518
01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:30,360
Speaker 1: that we're not We're not smart enough to be respected,

1519
01:20:30,479 --> 01:20:32,400
Speaker 1: or to sit at the table, or to have a voice,

1520
01:20:32,479 --> 01:20:35,479
Speaker 1: or or to have any real significant role in decision making.

1521
01:20:35,760 --> 01:20:38,400
Speaker 1: You've called me to be this smart, so then don't

1522
01:20:38,400 --> 01:20:40,960
Speaker 1: weaponize it against me when it becomes inconvenient for you.

1523
01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:43,599
Speaker 1: And I would actually argue the same thing for you,

1524
01:20:44,040 --> 01:20:47,320
Speaker 1: even being a white male or anybody male, female or indifferent.

1525
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:50,320
Speaker 1: UH that are bringing a hard truth that the too

1526
01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:53,880
Speaker 1: smart for your own good thing is really UH can

1527
01:20:53,920 --> 01:20:56,519
Speaker 1: be weaponized in those gray areas where people just don't

1528
01:20:56,520 --> 01:20:58,280
Speaker 1: want to have to accept the tough truth. They could

1529
01:20:58,280 --> 01:21:00,519
Speaker 1: have told Mohammed Ali he was too smart for doing good,

1530
01:21:01,200 --> 01:21:04,000
Speaker 1: but he was right. So where is the premium one

1531
01:21:04,000 --> 01:21:08,840
Speaker 1: being right and true? I have I think I have

1532
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:12,040
Speaker 1: a great agent, and my agent has has an expression

1533
01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:15,280
Speaker 1: he's like, look, you can be right and you can

1534
01:21:15,280 --> 01:21:17,840
Speaker 1: be out of a job. He's like, that's the and

1535
01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:19,559
Speaker 1: and look, it's one of the things that fascinates me

1536
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:23,840
Speaker 1: about you, which is you think and have in many

1537
01:21:23,880 --> 01:21:33,120
Speaker 1: ways proven to be no. You yes, yes, it's it's

1538
01:21:33,160 --> 01:21:36,679
Speaker 1: it's reality. It's like when you say that, you say

1539
01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:38,600
Speaker 1: it like it's okay. When I hear that, and I

1540
01:21:38,640 --> 01:21:43,200
Speaker 1: didn't say I didn't say it's okay. I just realized

1541
01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:46,000
Speaker 1: that it is what it is, right, I just it is.

1542
01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:47,960
Speaker 1: My point, do you, Doug, is what what do you

1543
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:50,599
Speaker 1: tell your agent in response in terms of how you're

1544
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:54,840
Speaker 1: going to engage the world with that knowledge depends, It

1545
01:21:54,840 --> 01:21:58,040
Speaker 1: depends upon the pace, depends upon the tell me the

1546
01:21:58,120 --> 01:22:01,360
Speaker 1: same thing. And you know what I tell them. I

1547
01:22:01,400 --> 01:22:03,200
Speaker 1: tell them, if we're not gonna do it, who's gonna

1548
01:22:03,240 --> 01:22:05,600
Speaker 1: do it? So so what I have a problem with

1549
01:22:05,680 --> 01:22:07,600
Speaker 1: and this goes for guys like Lebron or you know

1550
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:09,320
Speaker 1: a lot of these grand standards. And I don't want

1551
01:22:09,320 --> 01:22:11,800
Speaker 1: to pick on Lebron, He's just He's just the most

1552
01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:14,559
Speaker 1: visible athlete in the world right now. Maybe UM a

1553
01:22:14,600 --> 01:22:17,000
Speaker 1: lot of these grand standards. They want to retweet, they

1554
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:18,720
Speaker 1: want to brief past, they want to past people like

1555
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:21,320
Speaker 1: Muhammad Ali. They want to post these quotes and sacrifice.

1556
01:22:21,360 --> 01:22:24,559
Speaker 1: And the whole campaign for Tyler Kaepernick was was based

1557
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:27,560
Speaker 1: on giving up something, you know, lose everything. Just a

1558
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:30,280
Speaker 1: reiteration of profit to you know, process de man the

1559
01:22:30,280 --> 01:22:32,280
Speaker 1: world to gainers, you know, gain the whole world, and

1560
01:22:32,280 --> 01:22:34,840
Speaker 1: lose yourself. I get it. It's it's all. It's all

1561
01:22:34,920 --> 01:22:37,519
Speaker 1: feel good. It feels good. But what I'm talking about

1562
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:40,680
Speaker 1: is there's no actual action that has the substance that

1563
01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:45,439
Speaker 1: actually addresses that. There's there's no substantive, substantive action that

1564
01:22:45,479 --> 01:22:49,120
Speaker 1: actually addresses those those ideas. They were laid here for

1565
01:22:49,160 --> 01:22:52,400
Speaker 1: a reason. Muhammad Ali gave us those those moments, and

1566
01:22:52,439 --> 01:22:56,160
Speaker 1: those those quotes, and those those uh, those teachings and

1567
01:22:56,200 --> 01:22:59,040
Speaker 1: knowledge for a reason. Jesus Christ gave it to us

1568
01:22:59,080 --> 01:23:01,160
Speaker 1: for reasons. Why are we not using it? Why are

1569
01:23:01,160 --> 01:23:03,400
Speaker 1: we okay going You know what, if David Stirn and

1570
01:23:03,400 --> 01:23:05,400
Speaker 1: those guys want to not give me a job because

1571
01:23:05,400 --> 01:23:08,439
Speaker 1: I said something true and right, well then good then

1572
01:23:08,479 --> 01:23:10,880
Speaker 1: then that's their decision. It's like there is such an

1573
01:23:10,920 --> 01:23:16,920
Speaker 1: equanimity around around institutional corruption. That's my fear, and that's

1574
01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:19,160
Speaker 1: you guys as charged as the media. And I'll say

1575
01:23:19,240 --> 01:23:21,640
Speaker 1: mine too, because my aspiration is to be involved in

1576
01:23:21,720 --> 01:23:25,680
Speaker 1: media with the last renaissance. But it's our charge to

1577
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:28,920
Speaker 1: actually challenge that. And if we don't, that's what makes

1578
01:23:29,120 --> 01:23:32,479
Speaker 1: makes guys like Donald Trump's claims true when he says

1579
01:23:32,520 --> 01:23:35,280
Speaker 1: that the media is a danger to a free America.

1580
01:23:35,800 --> 01:23:38,120
Speaker 1: And we don't want to make him true. He's an asshole,

1581
01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:40,519
Speaker 1: he's an a host, pardon my language, he's an a whole.

1582
01:23:40,800 --> 01:23:42,880
Speaker 1: We don't we don't need to make him true. All

1583
01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:44,840
Speaker 1: we have to do is actually step up to the

1584
01:23:44,840 --> 01:23:47,000
Speaker 1: plate and go, you know what, no, no, no, no,

1585
01:23:47,120 --> 01:23:48,519
Speaker 1: you know you're right. It is the charge of the

1586
01:23:48,520 --> 01:23:51,479
Speaker 1: media to not just be okay with the corruption of

1587
01:23:51,520 --> 01:23:54,800
Speaker 1: these large institutions. Because who can fight him. You can

1588
01:23:54,840 --> 01:23:56,720
Speaker 1: fight him, Doug got Leeve. I've been fighting him for

1589
01:23:56,720 --> 01:23:59,640
Speaker 1: seven years. You can fight him too. Last thing you

1590
01:23:59,680 --> 01:24:02,479
Speaker 1: mentioned in the possibility of football, there's the m m A,

1591
01:24:03,240 --> 01:24:05,840
Speaker 1: there's the m m A, and there's there's Big Three.

1592
01:24:06,920 --> 01:24:10,519
Speaker 1: In five years, I'm gonna look for five years we talk,

1593
01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:17,160
Speaker 1: what were you have accomplished? Tough to say, tough to say. Um,

1594
01:24:17,200 --> 01:24:19,639
Speaker 1: I'll still be fighting. The fight continues, that's for sure.

1595
01:24:20,200 --> 01:24:28,880
Speaker 1: Um gold Wise Heavyweight Champion, UFC, UM Big Three Champions. Um.

1596
01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:31,240
Speaker 1: I really, I'm really, I'm really starting with the idea

1597
01:24:31,280 --> 01:24:34,160
Speaker 1: of playing sight in I really, I'm really flirting with

1598
01:24:34,160 --> 01:24:38,240
Speaker 1: the idea of doing that in the NFL. UM. I really,

1599
01:24:38,280 --> 01:24:40,200
Speaker 1: I really want that. There's a part of me that

1600
01:24:40,240 --> 01:24:45,599
Speaker 1: really wants that. Did you play foot school? I stopped

1601
01:24:45,720 --> 01:24:49,160
Speaker 1: right before high school, right, so I would have played

1602
01:24:49,240 --> 01:24:51,760
Speaker 1: quarterback or you know, but I just I would had

1603
01:24:51,800 --> 01:24:57,080
Speaker 1: too much on the line with basketball. So um, but yeah,

1604
01:24:57,120 --> 01:24:59,679
Speaker 1: I think I could probably. I think I could probably

1605
01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:01,880
Speaker 1: make my way out there that tight end. So the

1606
01:25:01,880 --> 01:25:03,760
Speaker 1: problem with the problem with football of the football thing

1607
01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:06,000
Speaker 1: is that if you do the Big Three, it drags

1608
01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:08,240
Speaker 1: in the summer, and an NFL team is gonna want

1609
01:25:08,240 --> 01:25:10,479
Speaker 1: to work with you all summer, you know what I mean.

1610
01:25:10,600 --> 01:25:13,080
Speaker 1: And it's and and the clock is and as much

1611
01:25:13,120 --> 01:25:15,439
Speaker 1: as you're still in your athletic prime, the clock is

1612
01:25:15,479 --> 01:25:19,759
Speaker 1: ticking to get kind of those football reps. Yeah, no doubt. Well, interesting,

1613
01:25:19,800 --> 01:25:22,400
Speaker 1: Doug is like I'm twenty. I just turned April, and

1614
01:25:22,479 --> 01:25:24,080
Speaker 1: you know that's kind of that's kind of up there

1615
01:25:24,120 --> 01:25:25,720
Speaker 1: for an athlete, and not up there, but kind of

1616
01:25:25,720 --> 01:25:29,639
Speaker 1: getting mid level. Um. But really, you know, like you said,

1617
01:25:29,640 --> 01:25:31,960
Speaker 1: I sat out two years even before my first year

1618
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:35,960
Speaker 1: at Iowa State, So I really only played three full

1619
01:25:36,040 --> 01:25:40,800
Speaker 1: seasons since I was eighteen years old, and that's been

1620
01:25:40,840 --> 01:25:43,080
Speaker 1: ten years now. So I've you know, and none due

1621
01:25:43,120 --> 01:25:46,920
Speaker 1: to injury, all due to you know, other other other teams,

1622
01:25:47,000 --> 01:25:49,360
Speaker 1: non physical So I think I have a lot of

1623
01:25:49,439 --> 01:25:52,640
Speaker 1: miles left in the tank. And um, I want to

1624
01:25:52,680 --> 01:25:54,920
Speaker 1: be one of those athletes that that maybe pushes the

1625
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:58,680
Speaker 1: idea of of that notion right there is what does

1626
01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:01,240
Speaker 1: it mean to be worn down? What's the wear and tear?

1627
01:26:01,439 --> 01:26:05,080
Speaker 1: What's eighty two games like versus not having eighty two games?

1628
01:26:05,120 --> 01:26:07,479
Speaker 1: And you know, do you do your muscles and things

1629
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:10,240
Speaker 1: just get older with the natural gravity? Uh, do you

1630
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:12,280
Speaker 1: start to just you know, lose some of that mobility

1631
01:26:12,320 --> 01:26:15,519
Speaker 1: and flexibility and explosiveness or is it is it largely

1632
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:18,360
Speaker 1: based on the wear and tear. So you know, we'll

1633
01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:19,840
Speaker 1: see I see a lot of guys in the league

1634
01:26:19,880 --> 01:26:23,960
Speaker 1: right now that are getting older and older playing better older. Um,

1635
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:25,640
Speaker 1: I don't think Dirt's a great example. I mean, he

1636
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:27,280
Speaker 1: was still out there, but he was moving pretty slow.

1637
01:26:27,320 --> 01:26:29,360
Speaker 1: I love Dirty's when of all time great events is

1638
01:26:29,720 --> 01:26:32,080
Speaker 1: moving a little slower. But he was a big time

1639
01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:34,960
Speaker 1: jumper in his career too. But Ego Doll is still

1640
01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:38,360
Speaker 1: moving real smooth. Not that he's that old. But I

1641
01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:39,920
Speaker 1: think there's a conversation that we had there, and I

1642
01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:41,200
Speaker 1: want to be able to, you know, be one of

1643
01:26:41,240 --> 01:26:43,920
Speaker 1: those athletes or an example of an athlete that that

1644
01:26:44,040 --> 01:26:47,200
Speaker 1: had a late entry, you know, challenging the status quo,

1645
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:49,519
Speaker 1: was able to, you know, get back up on the

1646
01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:51,920
Speaker 1: horse and and get it going and and maybe go

1647
01:26:52,120 --> 01:26:55,320
Speaker 1: further than in aids than some other people. So I

1648
01:26:55,680 --> 01:26:58,320
Speaker 1: am I put on a tweet and this is real

1649
01:26:58,400 --> 01:27:03,640
Speaker 1: and started this conversation about you hello and uh and

1650
01:27:03,640 --> 01:27:05,439
Speaker 1: and gil and you guys are on the same Big

1651
01:27:05,479 --> 01:27:09,920
Speaker 1: three team and like, look, Gilbert Arena's should have been

1652
01:27:09,960 --> 01:27:13,560
Speaker 1: the league longer. I didn't like that tweet, Doug. I

1653
01:27:13,600 --> 01:27:16,679
Speaker 1: don't like that I needed so I get I get

1654
01:27:16,720 --> 01:27:18,760
Speaker 1: that a lot of TWITTERK Look, look, Dook, this is

1655
01:27:18,760 --> 01:27:20,040
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to tell you. I get that a

1656
01:27:20,040 --> 01:27:22,120
Speaker 1: lot of Twitter and a lot of social media is

1657
01:27:22,160 --> 01:27:27,720
Speaker 1: about it's about humor, and it's about sarcasm and cleverness,

1658
01:27:27,760 --> 01:27:31,160
Speaker 1: and I get all that, Um, there's a there's a

1659
01:27:31,240 --> 01:27:33,680
Speaker 1: dangerous line in there. There's a dangerous line in there,

1660
01:27:33,680 --> 01:27:35,519
Speaker 1: and I know that we haven't found it yet, and

1661
01:27:35,600 --> 01:27:40,479
Speaker 1: for Christ's sakes, the social media in themselves are having

1662
01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:44,599
Speaker 1: trouble finding it. But as an institution, so I get that.

1663
01:27:44,720 --> 01:27:47,760
Speaker 1: You know that whole thing is very early and the

1664
01:27:47,800 --> 01:27:51,320
Speaker 1: etiquettes around it are nowhere here solidified. And I would

1665
01:27:51,400 --> 01:27:53,120
Speaker 1: never try and censor you are what you say and

1666
01:27:53,160 --> 01:27:55,160
Speaker 1: send that you don't have a right to say whatever

1667
01:27:55,200 --> 01:27:56,880
Speaker 1: you want to say. I'm not with that at all,

1668
01:27:56,960 --> 01:27:59,640
Speaker 1: and I don't agree with them taking people off with

1669
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:02,840
Speaker 1: those so to media sites for saying anything as inflammatory

1670
01:28:02,920 --> 01:28:06,599
Speaker 1: that possibly could you can imagine. Um, But I will

1671
01:28:06,640 --> 01:28:09,960
Speaker 1: say that my challenge to people like you, who I

1672
01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:12,960
Speaker 1: know are smart enough is to just be more visually

1673
01:28:13,080 --> 01:28:17,040
Speaker 1: careful around the things just saying, around the things they're

1674
01:28:17,040 --> 01:28:19,200
Speaker 1: saying it, and fight the years to be so instant

1675
01:28:19,280 --> 01:28:23,160
Speaker 1: instantaneous because I understand it, but think, but but but think,

1676
01:28:23,240 --> 01:28:26,000
Speaker 1: think about our conversation right here and now you having

1677
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:31,880
Speaker 1: that converse this conversation with Gilbert Arenas. Right, Okay, you

1678
01:28:32,000 --> 01:28:38,240
Speaker 1: just laugh, you just laugh because yes, I absolutely right,

1679
01:28:38,880 --> 01:28:43,720
Speaker 1: absolutely okay, but I mean I absolutely did like just

1680
01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:47,960
Speaker 1: the idea a conversation about you trying to explain listen, Lamar,

1681
01:28:48,200 --> 01:28:51,200
Speaker 1: it's not drugs, it's your mental health care, like and

1682
01:28:51,240 --> 01:28:53,960
Speaker 1: trying Lamar, trying to kind of explain, like no, no, no no,

1683
01:28:54,280 --> 01:28:56,800
Speaker 1: I like that, you know, like I just it would

1684
01:28:56,800 --> 01:29:00,439
Speaker 1: be a reality show and you and go ahead, now

1685
01:29:00,439 --> 01:29:02,040
Speaker 1: we're gonna do a show. We're gonna do a show.

1686
01:29:02,040 --> 01:29:03,760
Speaker 1: But that's I'm glad you said. I'm glad we get

1687
01:29:03,800 --> 01:29:06,040
Speaker 1: your vote. Maybe Fox Sports will cover that show. They'll

1688
01:29:06,040 --> 01:29:07,479
Speaker 1: they'll give us a budget to do that show. That

1689
01:29:07,479 --> 01:29:09,479
Speaker 1: would be great. But but I think what you will

1690
01:29:09,560 --> 01:29:13,360
Speaker 1: learn is the more that we get into the most

1691
01:29:13,439 --> 01:29:17,760
Speaker 1: uh uh mysterious characters of our time or of any time,

1692
01:29:17,760 --> 01:29:19,559
Speaker 1: the more you get closer to them, the more you

1693
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:22,240
Speaker 1: have intimate time to see what they're like, the more

1694
01:29:22,240 --> 01:29:26,200
Speaker 1: we're gonna realize that they're really, really regular. They're really

1695
01:29:26,240 --> 01:29:30,080
Speaker 1: regular for most the most part. Like um Lamar Odom,

1696
01:29:30,400 --> 01:29:32,360
Speaker 1: I don't think he's in any denial that that his

1697
01:29:32,439 --> 01:29:35,160
Speaker 1: situation with addiction with a mental health situation. I think

1698
01:29:35,560 --> 01:29:38,320
Speaker 1: his book is gonna be primarily about that. I know

1699
01:29:38,400 --> 01:29:41,760
Speaker 1: it is because we talked. It's like he's he's a

1700
01:29:41,800 --> 01:29:44,320
Speaker 1: full blown mental health advocate at this point, through his

1701
01:29:44,400 --> 01:29:46,960
Speaker 1: experience with addiction and other things in his life that

1702
01:29:46,960 --> 01:29:49,679
Speaker 1: that um have led him to the mental health door.

1703
01:29:49,720 --> 01:29:54,160
Speaker 1: And I I think you'll find Gilbert Reina's the same way, uh,

1704
01:29:54,200 --> 01:29:56,160
Speaker 1: throughout the summer and some things that he's gonna be

1705
01:29:56,200 --> 01:30:00,600
Speaker 1: talking about. And and to be honest, the gi partituate,

1706
01:30:00,680 --> 01:30:02,600
Speaker 1: Like my point to you is like you know the

1707
01:30:02,640 --> 01:30:04,840
Speaker 1: type of reactions that can come, and it's it's the

1708
01:30:05,120 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 1: dangerous part about places like Twitter, in an instagram or

1709
01:30:08,280 --> 01:30:10,559
Speaker 1: the conversation, because we all want to act like, oh well,

1710
01:30:11,000 --> 01:30:13,160
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what those trolls are saying or what

1711
01:30:13,200 --> 01:30:15,240
Speaker 1: people are saying. People are just kind of crazy and

1712
01:30:15,280 --> 01:30:18,479
Speaker 1: off the charts anyway. With with with that, but we

1713
01:30:18,560 --> 01:30:21,799
Speaker 1: have to be more mindful of the power of reading something,

1714
01:30:22,560 --> 01:30:26,400
Speaker 1: like when you read something, there's something to that. That's

1715
01:30:26,400 --> 01:30:29,519
Speaker 1: why books can be dangerous, Like there's something to it

1716
01:30:29,560 --> 01:30:31,559
Speaker 1: when you read something. So I don't just dismiss it

1717
01:30:31,560 --> 01:30:35,760
Speaker 1: out of I say, if something I say catalyzes the

1718
01:30:35,840 --> 01:30:38,840
Speaker 1: comment or or or manifest the comment that that can

1719
01:30:38,880 --> 01:30:42,839
Speaker 1: be dangerous or can be you know, uh, a dangerous

1720
01:30:42,880 --> 01:30:44,840
Speaker 1: world view, not so much what they actually say, but

1721
01:30:44,920 --> 01:30:47,639
Speaker 1: just the world view. I'm kind of like, I feel

1722
01:30:47,640 --> 01:30:49,400
Speaker 1: they need to go in and then comment again or

1723
01:30:49,479 --> 01:30:51,240
Speaker 1: try and clarify. And I see a lot of people

1724
01:30:51,280 --> 01:30:54,519
Speaker 1: commenting on things and they don't have the discipline or

1725
01:30:54,560 --> 01:30:57,960
Speaker 1: the or or feel the responsibility to to further the

1726
01:30:58,000 --> 01:31:01,200
Speaker 1: conversation and into clarify. So my point to you was

1727
01:31:02,120 --> 01:31:08,320
Speaker 1: number one, uh Me Gilbert and Lamar situation are completely different.

1728
01:31:09,080 --> 01:31:11,960
Speaker 1: Now you can prop us altogether under what the danger

1729
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:13,960
Speaker 1: In my point and my point, Doug, is the danger

1730
01:31:14,120 --> 01:31:17,200
Speaker 1: is and this is a ironically this is a is

1731
01:31:17,240 --> 01:31:20,240
Speaker 1: a great mental health point. Is that we have a

1732
01:31:20,280 --> 01:31:23,800
Speaker 1: tendency to clump things improperly. Like yeah, you could comp

1733
01:31:23,920 --> 01:31:26,799
Speaker 1: us under a mental health banner, that would be proper,

1734
01:31:27,200 --> 01:31:29,400
Speaker 1: But when you start to clump us under those character

1735
01:31:29,479 --> 01:31:33,800
Speaker 1: issues or gotten trouble or troublemaker, it's like, no, I'm

1736
01:31:33,800 --> 01:31:36,840
Speaker 1: not a troublemaker. Number one, U Lamar suffered from an

1737
01:31:36,840 --> 01:31:39,640
Speaker 1: addiction that I would I would bet came from childhood.

1738
01:31:39,720 --> 01:31:43,400
Speaker 1: So I feel kind of I feel kind of I

1739
01:31:43,439 --> 01:31:47,559
Speaker 1: feel very apprehensive. I feel outright wrong to call him

1740
01:31:47,560 --> 01:31:50,400
Speaker 1: a troublemaker because I know how addiction works. I have

1741
01:31:50,439 --> 01:31:53,400
Speaker 1: a respect for for the mental health domain enough to

1742
01:31:53,400 --> 01:31:56,720
Speaker 1: to really understand addiction and have studied addictions. So I

1743
01:31:56,760 --> 01:32:00,479
Speaker 1: don't call people who are at its troublemakers. That's just proper.

1744
01:32:01,000 --> 01:32:05,479
Speaker 1: And number three, Gilbert Arenas, the situation as yet to

1745
01:32:05,520 --> 01:32:08,840
Speaker 1: be told. But from my understanding and when I read

1746
01:32:08,840 --> 01:32:12,360
Speaker 1: through the collective bargaining agreement to find the mental health piece,

1747
01:32:12,960 --> 01:32:17,439
Speaker 1: there was no clear policy, uh to my understanding back then,

1748
01:32:17,479 --> 01:32:20,280
Speaker 1: because I went back and looked through multiple collective bargain

1749
01:32:20,280 --> 01:32:23,320
Speaker 1: agreement to try and find what might have been dead

1750
01:32:23,400 --> 01:32:25,760
Speaker 1: language or language that had had fallen out in some

1751
01:32:26,200 --> 01:32:30,439
Speaker 1: you know, by some happenstance. Anyway, when Gilbert Arenas was

1752
01:32:30,439 --> 01:32:32,760
Speaker 1: in the league, there was no clear policy about having

1753
01:32:32,760 --> 01:32:37,920
Speaker 1: your gun in the arena. That's a fact. There was

1754
01:32:38,000 --> 01:32:42,880
Speaker 1: no concrete policy in the player uniform, uniform, player time,

1755
01:32:42,920 --> 01:32:47,400
Speaker 1: tractor coda conduct about having a firearm in the facility.

1756
01:32:47,720 --> 01:32:50,400
Speaker 1: So I mean, you know, I think you've got three

1757
01:32:50,400 --> 01:32:54,040
Speaker 1: players there where. It's a good example. Um, in most

1758
01:32:54,040 --> 01:32:55,960
Speaker 1: places we would we would accept that, don't judge a

1759
01:32:55,960 --> 01:32:58,360
Speaker 1: book by a cover. But here you know, with with

1760
01:32:58,479 --> 01:33:02,680
Speaker 1: three coincidentally black male athletes who have the troublemaker stigma

1761
01:33:02,920 --> 01:33:05,720
Speaker 1: attached to him, that all three athletes have stories that

1762
01:33:05,760 --> 01:33:10,880
Speaker 1: are that are strikingly similar around misunderstanding and jumping the gun. Now,

1763
01:33:11,040 --> 01:33:14,880
Speaker 1: now there is a there's an element of drug use

1764
01:33:15,000 --> 01:33:19,080
Speaker 1: that that we have to accept some individual culpability for um.

1765
01:33:19,240 --> 01:33:22,439
Speaker 1: But you know when when when I think of like listen,

1766
01:33:22,479 --> 01:33:25,799
Speaker 1: I would I would say this, And I know Gilbert

1767
01:33:25,800 --> 01:33:27,759
Speaker 1: a little bit. I know a lot of people know Gilbert.

1768
01:33:27,800 --> 01:33:30,639
Speaker 1: I know Lamar a little bit. I would say, also

1769
01:33:32,400 --> 01:33:38,479
Speaker 1: who Lamar the but both of them, the Lamar especially

1770
01:33:38,560 --> 01:33:42,280
Speaker 1: the the best, right, they're all like, you're all bright

1771
01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:48,240
Speaker 1: and you'll have these unique personal stories. And um, I

1772
01:33:48,560 --> 01:33:52,080
Speaker 1: wouldn't I again, I even think you said earlier the

1773
01:33:52,160 --> 01:33:54,519
Speaker 1: use of the word troublemaker is unfair, Like I wouldn't

1774
01:33:54,560 --> 01:33:59,200
Speaker 1: think of Lamar. Lamar is more of a sympathetic figure. Um.

1775
01:33:59,240 --> 01:34:01,840
Speaker 1: And I think there's a bunch of things to Lamar

1776
01:34:01,880 --> 01:34:04,479
Speaker 1: and which are I think kind of the basketball system

1777
01:34:04,520 --> 01:34:08,880
Speaker 1: has done him, done him a disservice in many ways. Uh,

1778
01:34:08,960 --> 01:34:11,840
Speaker 1: Gilbert's thing. Gilbert's one of those guys that I would say,

1779
01:34:11,880 --> 01:34:14,000
Speaker 1: he has the label that you have of too smart

1780
01:34:14,040 --> 01:34:16,559
Speaker 1: for his own good, like Gilbert is. And I had

1781
01:34:16,560 --> 01:34:20,200
Speaker 1: this conversation with another former NBA NBA player. I'll leave

1782
01:34:20,200 --> 01:34:21,840
Speaker 1: his name out of it for a second, but I

1783
01:34:21,880 --> 01:34:23,880
Speaker 1: was talking about Steph Curry and the shots he takes,

1784
01:34:24,640 --> 01:34:27,920
Speaker 1: and I was like, I was like, look, it's not

1785
01:34:28,080 --> 01:34:32,560
Speaker 1: just that staff is it said. He's taking shots that

1786
01:34:32,760 --> 01:34:36,200
Speaker 1: no one took a thought to take twenty years ago,

1787
01:34:36,800 --> 01:34:38,560
Speaker 1: and the NBA players like, you know, Gilbert used to

1788
01:34:38,600 --> 01:34:40,600
Speaker 1: take those. I was like, really, like, yeah, Gilbert was

1789
01:34:40,640 --> 01:34:43,160
Speaker 1: the one who actually first took thirty footers. No one

1790
01:34:43,160 --> 01:34:46,639
Speaker 1: else took thirty footers, and now it's you know Staff

1791
01:34:47,000 --> 01:34:50,439
Speaker 1: and you know then we we um uh we see

1792
01:34:50,479 --> 01:34:52,720
Speaker 1: you know Damian Lillard take you know, take him for

1793
01:34:52,720 --> 01:34:55,200
Speaker 1: for game winners. And so in many ways, like Gilbert

1794
01:34:55,240 --> 01:34:58,240
Speaker 1: Renes was kind of a transcendent player, but he's not.

1795
01:34:58,760 --> 01:35:01,160
Speaker 1: He's never going to get that crowd it because of

1796
01:35:01,200 --> 01:35:03,920
Speaker 1: the gun incident and and how it derailed his career.

1797
01:35:04,160 --> 01:35:06,120
Speaker 1: It's kind of a fact. That's part of why I

1798
01:35:06,120 --> 01:35:08,479
Speaker 1: think it's a fascinating would be a fascinating reality show

1799
01:35:08,640 --> 01:35:11,800
Speaker 1: because you have three incredible careers, Like Lamar was an

1800
01:35:11,880 --> 01:35:15,920
Speaker 1: NBA champion, but he had all this tragedy in his life, right,

1801
01:35:16,000 --> 01:35:18,240
Speaker 1: and then he had the combined with the fact that

1802
01:35:18,280 --> 01:35:20,600
Speaker 1: we were watching kind of this train wreck on a

1803
01:35:20,680 --> 01:35:23,599
Speaker 1: reality show. You had Gilbert and then you had your

1804
01:35:23,640 --> 01:35:26,400
Speaker 1: career that never got off the ground in the NBA.

1805
01:35:26,600 --> 01:35:31,120
Speaker 1: But it's because you pointed out, yeah, for a second, first,

1806
01:35:31,160 --> 01:35:34,400
Speaker 1: for a second, just just run this thought experiment. Um,

1807
01:35:34,720 --> 01:35:38,639
Speaker 1: Lamar Odom's you know, de roilment came. What year would

1808
01:35:38,640 --> 01:35:45,679
Speaker 1: you say it was? It was two thousand four, team

1809
01:35:47,040 --> 01:35:50,200
Speaker 1: well it was apparently the spirals started when he got

1810
01:35:50,280 --> 01:35:52,840
Speaker 1: traded for Chris Paul, right, but but you know his

1811
01:35:52,920 --> 01:35:57,880
Speaker 1: son had died. Um get an infant son that died.

1812
01:35:57,920 --> 01:36:01,559
Speaker 1: That really that that you know, and that's just that's

1813
01:36:01,560 --> 01:36:04,519
Speaker 1: just absolutely I mean that like this is my problem

1814
01:36:04,560 --> 01:36:07,680
Speaker 1: when when when people it's just like the Allen Irison thing,

1815
01:36:07,720 --> 01:36:10,559
Speaker 1: like everybody made the you know, practice practice practice, when

1816
01:36:10,600 --> 01:36:13,400
Speaker 1: really what Alan Irison said clearly that people still want

1817
01:36:13,400 --> 01:36:16,000
Speaker 1: to skim over in the media out of their resents

1818
01:36:16,760 --> 01:36:19,360
Speaker 1: of of of having played instrumental role in the in

1819
01:36:19,400 --> 01:36:24,519
Speaker 1: the propagation of that that twisted narrative won't put any

1820
01:36:24,800 --> 01:36:27,120
Speaker 1: highlight on the fact that he was saying, Look, my

1821
01:36:27,240 --> 01:36:31,240
Speaker 1: friend just died. My my childhood's friend just died. He

1822
01:36:31,439 --> 01:36:34,879
Speaker 1: lost his life, he's not here anymore. Is the value

1823
01:36:34,880 --> 01:36:37,680
Speaker 1: on life and the premium on life so low that

1824
01:36:37,760 --> 01:36:39,680
Speaker 1: you guys have to be here talking to me and

1825
01:36:39,720 --> 01:36:43,760
Speaker 1: emphasize and practice. And that's what he said, And all

1826
01:36:43,800 --> 01:36:46,400
Speaker 1: they played back is the practice practice, like he was

1827
01:36:46,439 --> 01:36:49,160
Speaker 1: mocking the idea of practice is like, come on, guys,

1828
01:36:49,200 --> 01:36:52,719
Speaker 1: And I make that point because when you hear about

1829
01:36:52,760 --> 01:36:54,519
Speaker 1: Lamar only the first thing they want to say is

1830
01:36:54,560 --> 01:36:57,160
Speaker 1: about Kardashian. The first thing they want to say is

1831
01:36:57,200 --> 01:36:59,719
Speaker 1: all the Tardashian curse or you know he was silly

1832
01:36:59,760 --> 01:37:02,920
Speaker 1: for at them or blah blah blahs. Like, guys, first

1833
01:37:02,960 --> 01:37:05,479
Speaker 1: of all, we're all more silly than we want to admit.

1834
01:37:05,960 --> 01:37:07,720
Speaker 1: It's easy for you to pick at somebody who's in

1835
01:37:07,760 --> 01:37:10,519
Speaker 1: the public in sect chall silly that guy iss like, no,

1836
01:37:10,680 --> 01:37:13,120
Speaker 1: you're far more silly than you want to admit. Then

1837
01:37:13,160 --> 01:37:16,240
Speaker 1: you'll ever admit anybody, it's anybody who's listening. You're more

1838
01:37:16,240 --> 01:37:18,400
Speaker 1: silly than you will ever admit. I'm more silly than

1839
01:37:18,400 --> 01:37:21,720
Speaker 1: I like to admit. And and so why is this?

1840
01:37:21,760 --> 01:37:24,040
Speaker 1: Why is the first lead of that story not man?

1841
01:37:24,080 --> 01:37:26,680
Speaker 1: This this guy actually lost his son. I couldn't even

1842
01:37:26,760 --> 01:37:29,040
Speaker 1: imagine what it would be like to lose a child.

1843
01:37:29,400 --> 01:37:31,600
Speaker 1: I couldn't even imagine my kids eight years old and

1844
01:37:31,640 --> 01:37:34,080
Speaker 1: five years old right now. I couldn't imagine it. And

1845
01:37:34,439 --> 01:37:37,720
Speaker 1: so to add that on top of what addiction is

1846
01:37:37,760 --> 01:37:42,120
Speaker 1: like in general, um, it's just just like, man, it's

1847
01:37:42,760 --> 01:37:45,640
Speaker 1: where the sympathy needs to We need to lead with sympathy.

1848
01:37:45,920 --> 01:37:47,280
Speaker 1: And I don't want to be like, you know, in

1849
01:37:47,400 --> 01:37:49,680
Speaker 1: pastor manic or nothing like that, but we gotta lead

1850
01:37:49,760 --> 01:37:52,640
Speaker 1: with some sympathy in cases like that. I mean, this

1851
01:37:52,760 --> 01:37:54,840
Speaker 1: ain't the guy who's just going through some run of

1852
01:37:54,880 --> 01:37:58,000
Speaker 1: the mills stuff. This is like, this is like world

1853
01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:01,120
Speaker 1: beating stuff. It's you know, it's just it's it's so

1854
01:38:01,240 --> 01:38:03,080
Speaker 1: much bigger than that. In my point to year is this.

1855
01:38:03,960 --> 01:38:06,760
Speaker 1: Had the NBA put in the mental health policy and

1856
01:38:06,840 --> 01:38:09,400
Speaker 1: put in the widespread awareness program that me and the

1857
01:38:09,439 --> 01:38:12,719
Speaker 1: doctors advocated for back in two thousand and twelve, would

1858
01:38:12,720 --> 01:38:17,000
Speaker 1: it maybe have helped lamar Out. I think he's still

1859
01:38:17,040 --> 01:38:23,080
Speaker 1: in the league at the time. Possibly possibly possibly My

1860
01:38:23,200 --> 01:38:26,840
Speaker 1: teammate Tyler Honey cut in the RGB. Was there when

1861
01:38:26,880 --> 01:38:31,680
Speaker 1: this policy conversation came to the surface. Okay um, And

1862
01:38:32,720 --> 01:38:35,120
Speaker 1: I never even knew that Tyler Honeycull was dealing with issues,

1863
01:38:35,160 --> 01:38:37,080
Speaker 1: and maybe he wasn't dealing with this issues back then.

1864
01:38:37,200 --> 01:38:41,160
Speaker 1: But but last year, my friend Tyler Hoodie Cut killed himself.

1865
01:38:41,560 --> 01:38:44,160
Speaker 1: So the story goes, maybe the police killed him. We

1866
01:38:44,200 --> 01:38:46,680
Speaker 1: don't really know, we will never really know, but so

1867
01:38:46,800 --> 01:38:49,920
Speaker 1: the story goes, he killed himself. Would the mental health

1868
01:38:49,960 --> 01:38:53,800
Speaker 1: policy have helped him? Potentially? What did it have helped

1869
01:38:53,840 --> 01:38:55,920
Speaker 1: Kevin Love? Potentially he would have known what a panic

1870
01:38:55,960 --> 01:38:58,880
Speaker 1: attack was when he had it, had had well, maybe

1871
01:38:58,920 --> 01:39:00,120
Speaker 1: now he might have still thought he'd got on the

1872
01:39:00,160 --> 01:39:02,600
Speaker 1: heart attack, because that's how bad those can be. But

1873
01:39:03,040 --> 01:39:06,360
Speaker 1: the point is, like Gamar de Rose and it's like

1874
01:39:06,720 --> 01:39:12,240
Speaker 1: these these people have been structurally de incentivized and being

1875
01:39:12,240 --> 01:39:15,479
Speaker 1: their authentic self and sharing their innermo struggles because they

1876
01:39:15,520 --> 01:39:18,800
Speaker 1: know it makes them vulnerable economically, they know it makes

1877
01:39:18,800 --> 01:39:21,840
Speaker 1: it vulnerable and their social status. And that's what the

1878
01:39:21,880 --> 01:39:24,120
Speaker 1: deeper point was about the mental health conversation. It's not

1879
01:39:24,200 --> 01:39:27,519
Speaker 1: to pick bones about what the actual language says on paper,

1880
01:39:27,800 --> 01:39:29,840
Speaker 1: or you know this and I know the business side

1881
01:39:29,840 --> 01:39:31,840
Speaker 1: and the law site has to account for those things.

1882
01:39:31,840 --> 01:39:34,280
Speaker 1: But the reality is just the reality is that there's

1883
01:39:34,280 --> 01:39:37,880
Speaker 1: a deeper issue here that all of us can benefit from,

1884
01:39:38,000 --> 01:39:41,439
Speaker 1: even the owners for Christ's sakes, that the the owner

1885
01:39:41,520 --> 01:39:44,960
Speaker 1: from the Oklahoma City Thunder drove his car into a

1886
01:39:45,040 --> 01:39:51,280
Speaker 1: concrete wall. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that's just this

1887
01:39:51,400 --> 01:39:54,639
Speaker 1: is all spexual, Doug. And you know, people don't people

1888
01:39:54,680 --> 01:39:57,120
Speaker 1: don't want to people don't want to hear my story

1889
01:39:57,120 --> 01:39:59,719
Speaker 1: and give me a platform like that. Yet it'll come around.

1890
01:39:59,760 --> 01:40:02,880
Speaker 1: It's will coming. The history is, the history is still

1891
01:40:02,880 --> 01:40:05,840
Speaker 1: turning in my favor with with more and more momentum.

1892
01:40:05,920 --> 01:40:08,600
Speaker 1: And I think the Big Three Draft was it was

1893
01:40:08,800 --> 01:40:10,759
Speaker 1: the first step. I think some of the other players

1894
01:40:10,800 --> 01:40:13,120
Speaker 1: there who may have had misinformation about me or not

1895
01:40:13,160 --> 01:40:15,880
Speaker 1: really understood my story to other people like Kevin Love

1896
01:40:15,920 --> 01:40:18,920
Speaker 1: and the whole movement um are are looking at me

1897
01:40:19,000 --> 01:40:22,760
Speaker 1: more with with credibility now. But but there's still a

1898
01:40:22,840 --> 01:40:26,120
Speaker 1: real resent towards towards me having a platform even today,

1899
01:40:26,160 --> 01:40:28,680
Speaker 1: because the thing I'm saying causes to look right in

1900
01:40:28,720 --> 01:40:31,080
Speaker 1: the mirror, right down into our own soul and go,

1901
01:40:31,439 --> 01:40:34,880
Speaker 1: who are you not? Who is Lamar old Um not

1902
01:40:34,880 --> 01:40:37,240
Speaker 1: not Lamar old um being at wherever he was and

1903
01:40:37,320 --> 01:40:39,439
Speaker 1: taking the drugs. How much coffee do you need to

1904
01:40:39,439 --> 01:40:41,840
Speaker 1: get up in the morning. Are you gonna act like

1905
01:40:41,920 --> 01:40:45,080
Speaker 1: Kathy isn't a drug, because it surely is. These are

1906
01:40:45,080 --> 01:40:47,360
Speaker 1: the points that I'm willing to bring and it's you know,

1907
01:40:47,439 --> 01:40:52,400
Speaker 1: it's just uncomfortable, but I'm dedicated. So Royce, I appreciate

1908
01:40:52,439 --> 01:40:54,640
Speaker 1: your time and I look forward to seeing you the

1909
01:40:54,640 --> 01:40:57,360
Speaker 1: Big Three this summer and uh and seeing you in

1910
01:40:57,360 --> 01:40:59,519
Speaker 1: the octagon as well. I hope you enjoyed it, and

1911
01:40:59,520 --> 01:41:04,120
Speaker 1: thanks for join this. It would be well man. Let

1912
01:41:04,160 --> 01:41:06,559
Speaker 1: me let me quickly give you a wrap up on

1913
01:41:06,800 --> 01:41:10,640
Speaker 1: Houston Golden State. Um, if you listen, last week, I

1914
01:41:10,680 --> 01:41:14,439
Speaker 1: gave you what I thought Game six would look like

1915
01:41:14,560 --> 01:41:18,120
Speaker 1: and kind of nailed it. I was really impressed by

1916
01:41:18,120 --> 01:41:21,519
Speaker 1: Golden State running offense, going with a bigger lineup, using

1917
01:41:21,560 --> 01:41:23,640
Speaker 1: their big guys, run more pick and roll And for

1918
01:41:23,680 --> 01:41:26,680
Speaker 1: people who say that's what Golden State used to look like,

1919
01:41:27,200 --> 01:41:30,240
Speaker 1: not really as much as you think. When when Steph

1920
01:41:30,320 --> 01:41:37,200
Speaker 1: Curry and Clay Thompson had Harrison Barnes um, they had

1921
01:41:37,200 --> 01:41:39,200
Speaker 1: the fewest number of pick and rolls in the league.

1922
01:41:39,920 --> 01:41:42,240
Speaker 1: They were a ball movement offense, and they still move

1923
01:41:42,320 --> 01:41:47,160
Speaker 1: it better without Kevin durant Um, but they're they're running

1924
01:41:47,160 --> 01:41:49,559
Speaker 1: a lot of high ball screens now, a a lot

1925
01:41:49,560 --> 01:41:52,200
Speaker 1: of high ball screens. That's that's not what they used

1926
01:41:52,240 --> 01:41:56,520
Speaker 1: to do. Now. We can be critical of how Portland's

1927
01:41:56,520 --> 01:41:59,240
Speaker 1: guarded him in Round one in the Game one of

1928
01:41:59,479 --> 01:42:03,439
Speaker 1: the final Western Conference Finals, but as Terry Stotts pointed out,

1929
01:42:04,040 --> 01:42:05,960
Speaker 1: Portland tried to trap him in Game six, I mean

1930
01:42:06,479 --> 01:42:08,639
Speaker 1: Houston trying to trap in Game six and couldn't seem

1931
01:42:08,680 --> 01:42:11,600
Speaker 1: to do it. Um. That game was lost in the

1932
01:42:11,600 --> 01:42:14,879
Speaker 1: first half when Houston couldn't keep them at arms distance

1933
01:42:14,920 --> 01:42:18,520
Speaker 1: have a ten twelve point lead, where maybe the Warriors

1934
01:42:18,600 --> 01:42:24,040
Speaker 1: shut it down in the second half, right, Um, And

1935
01:42:24,160 --> 01:42:30,080
Speaker 1: I think I believe that what Steph Curry is able

1936
01:42:30,120 --> 01:42:32,960
Speaker 1: to do, the shots he's able to make. I think

1937
01:42:33,000 --> 01:42:37,439
Speaker 1: Gilbert Arenas was the first to take thirty footers sometimes

1938
01:42:37,479 --> 01:42:40,360
Speaker 1: under drest and hit a decent percentage of him but

1939
01:42:40,600 --> 01:42:44,839
Speaker 1: shooting them going right, going left, high level games, shooting

1940
01:42:44,880 --> 01:42:48,760
Speaker 1: what seems to be a high level clip like I've

1941
01:42:48,760 --> 01:42:52,080
Speaker 1: never seen this, Like I I was always talking like,

1942
01:42:52,120 --> 01:42:55,360
Speaker 1: don't shoot off a crossover. He does it. Most guys

1943
01:42:55,400 --> 01:42:57,679
Speaker 1: don't shoot well going right or going left. He does,

1944
01:42:58,479 --> 01:43:01,439
Speaker 1: oh yeah, and he shoots well off the match. And

1945
01:43:01,520 --> 01:43:04,960
Speaker 1: while he can turn the ball over a bunch, he's

1946
01:43:05,000 --> 01:43:07,360
Speaker 1: got a clever eye as a passer and when he

1947
01:43:07,400 --> 01:43:10,679
Speaker 1: makes his finishing shots, and how do you guard the guy?

1948
01:43:10,800 --> 01:43:14,080
Speaker 1: And then maybe the most underrated part are under discussed

1949
01:43:14,080 --> 01:43:17,360
Speaker 1: part about Steph Curry's finish was the eight made free

1950
01:43:17,360 --> 01:43:19,240
Speaker 1: throwers consecutively at the end of the game, and it

1951
01:43:19,320 --> 01:43:23,400
Speaker 1: felt like the net and didn't even move right. He's

1952
01:43:23,680 --> 01:43:30,559
Speaker 1: unders believable. But I also would point out that it

1953
01:43:30,640 --> 01:43:33,759
Speaker 1: was an hour never moment for Houston and the flaw

1954
01:43:33,960 --> 01:43:36,400
Speaker 1: And this is what Golden State I think understands about

1955
01:43:36,439 --> 01:43:41,080
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant. You can't attack the same way for seven

1956
01:43:41,080 --> 01:43:43,800
Speaker 1: consecutive games. And Houston did figure it out some and like, hey,

1957
01:43:43,840 --> 01:43:46,880
Speaker 1: let's let's use Chris Paul and ball screens. That's what

1958
01:43:46,960 --> 01:43:49,240
Speaker 1: he does best. That's a little bit different than everything

1959
01:43:49,240 --> 01:43:52,800
Speaker 1: else we do. But I think Houston that their front

1960
01:43:52,800 --> 01:43:55,439
Speaker 1: office had a good idea two years ago when they

1961
01:43:55,920 --> 01:43:58,160
Speaker 1: or last season whatever with Joe Johnson and this season

1962
01:43:58,200 --> 01:44:00,559
Speaker 1: with Carmelo Anthon, just the idea of, hey, every once

1963
01:44:00,560 --> 01:44:04,240
Speaker 1: in a while, Let's stop doing running our offense. Let's

1964
01:44:04,240 --> 01:44:05,920
Speaker 1: just throw in the post and let that guy eat

1965
01:44:05,960 --> 01:44:08,840
Speaker 1: and everybody else take a break. That's what Golden State does.

1966
01:44:09,920 --> 01:44:11,280
Speaker 1: I think that's what they'd like to do some with

1967
01:44:11,320 --> 01:44:14,719
Speaker 1: DeMarcus Cousins of he is healthy. Doesn't necessarily make you better,

1968
01:44:15,240 --> 01:44:17,559
Speaker 1: but it can make everybody else better in the fourth quarters,

1969
01:44:17,560 --> 01:44:19,719
Speaker 1: so they still have juice, still have gas in the tank,

1970
01:44:21,640 --> 01:44:24,040
Speaker 1: and Houston just didn't have that, and that that's probably

1971
01:44:24,040 --> 01:44:26,400
Speaker 1: why James Harden played so in the first half and

1972
01:44:26,479 --> 01:44:28,400
Speaker 1: ran out of gas in the second half. Was it

1973
01:44:28,520 --> 01:44:31,679
Speaker 1: some of it cranked up defense and changing your coverage

1974
01:44:31,720 --> 01:44:33,360
Speaker 1: is yeah, some of it is just the attrition of

1975
01:44:33,840 --> 01:44:36,760
Speaker 1: you do the same thing for six consecutive games and

1976
01:44:36,800 --> 01:44:39,960
Speaker 1: oh yeah, by the way, you you kind of, you know,

1977
01:44:40,160 --> 01:44:42,160
Speaker 1: running peter out a little bit in the second half

1978
01:44:42,160 --> 01:44:45,000
Speaker 1: of games, especially in Game six, when you have all

1979
01:44:45,000 --> 01:44:47,880
Speaker 1: that attrition from earlier on in the playoffs, earlier on

1980
01:44:47,960 --> 01:44:51,280
Speaker 1: the series, earlier on in that particular game. There's also

1981
01:44:51,400 --> 01:44:53,920
Speaker 1: this sense that the Warriors may in fact be better

1982
01:44:54,120 --> 01:44:57,800
Speaker 1: without Kevin Durant. And I don't think it's just the

1983
01:44:57,840 --> 01:45:01,200
Speaker 1: Warriors saying it. I think they know it and feel

1984
01:45:01,200 --> 01:45:03,760
Speaker 1: it that Katie is in fact their best player. Does

1985
01:45:03,760 --> 01:45:05,400
Speaker 1: that make him super easy to play with? No? Does

1986
01:45:05,439 --> 01:45:09,880
Speaker 1: that mean the ball does stop yet? Some um, But

1987
01:45:09,880 --> 01:45:12,559
Speaker 1: we're gonna make this referendum on Kevin Durant and the

1988
01:45:12,600 --> 01:45:16,600
Speaker 1: Warriors because they're now at thirty two and five without him.

1989
01:45:16,640 --> 01:45:18,799
Speaker 1: But how do we have a referendum on Kevin Durant

1990
01:45:18,800 --> 01:45:20,759
Speaker 1: and his greatness when they won the last two NBA

1991
01:45:20,920 --> 01:45:24,120
Speaker 1: championships and he was the finals m v P, you know,

1992
01:45:24,560 --> 01:45:26,680
Speaker 1: and and like, look, are we gonna be critical of

1993
01:45:26,720 --> 01:45:29,840
Speaker 1: the ball stopping with k D throughout his What did

1994
01:45:29,880 --> 01:45:33,240
Speaker 1: he have like some sick It was Game five he

1995
01:45:33,320 --> 01:45:35,880
Speaker 1: got hurt. So it's like an incredible seven or eight

1996
01:45:35,880 --> 01:45:39,479
Speaker 1: game run since the you know, I am Kevin Durant moment,

1997
01:45:41,680 --> 01:45:44,320
Speaker 1: we have just like no long term memory. If you

1998
01:45:44,320 --> 01:45:46,200
Speaker 1: look at the last month of the season, Kevin Durant

1999
01:45:46,200 --> 01:45:48,200
Speaker 1: was playing team ball, moving the basketball, not taking a

2000
01:45:48,200 --> 01:45:50,439
Speaker 1: ton of shots. Early on the playoffs, moving the ball,

2001
01:45:50,520 --> 01:45:53,479
Speaker 1: not taking a ton of shots. And then people in

2002
01:45:54,040 --> 01:45:56,719
Speaker 1: somewhat similar field to mind like why isn't Kevin Durant

2003
01:45:56,800 --> 01:45:59,080
Speaker 1: scoring more so he's like, all right, fuck you now,

2004
01:45:59,120 --> 01:46:03,559
Speaker 1: I'm gonna score forward because you said I couldn't, and

2005
01:46:03,560 --> 01:46:07,200
Speaker 1: then you score. Why why don't you move the ball more?

2006
01:46:07,240 --> 01:46:09,120
Speaker 1: Like I was just moving to ball more and he

2007
01:46:09,200 --> 01:46:11,160
Speaker 1: said it to the score more. What do you want?

2008
01:46:12,280 --> 01:46:17,919
Speaker 1: People are insane, They're insane. Rule number one in basketball

2009
01:46:18,000 --> 01:46:20,280
Speaker 1: rule n want to stop the ball. Number two is

2010
01:46:20,280 --> 01:46:22,400
Speaker 1: don't turn the ball over. But rule number one in

2011
01:46:22,439 --> 01:46:25,240
Speaker 1: basketball and the offensive basketball is take what the defense

2012
01:46:25,240 --> 01:46:30,200
Speaker 1: gives you. Take what the defense gives you. And that's

2013
01:46:30,200 --> 01:46:33,200
Speaker 1: what he did. The Clippers chose to guard him with

2014
01:46:33,200 --> 01:46:35,680
Speaker 1: one small dude, and he was like, you know, they

2015
01:46:35,680 --> 01:46:37,960
Speaker 1: had double teams and you know they were running him

2016
01:46:37,960 --> 01:46:40,000
Speaker 1: out three point line. So he was finding ways to

2017
01:46:40,040 --> 01:46:43,759
Speaker 1: be a good teammate. And then when you got isolated

2018
01:46:43,800 --> 01:46:45,559
Speaker 1: on infeg of your dudes, he's like, all right, I'll

2019
01:46:45,600 --> 01:46:48,439
Speaker 1: take what the defense gives you. Wha wha whap, whap whap.

2020
01:46:49,880 --> 01:46:52,280
Speaker 1: I've heard a lot of weird things. My boy ro

2021
01:46:52,360 --> 01:46:56,760
Speaker 1: shot Phillips was like, uh, Steph's points are more impactful

2022
01:46:56,840 --> 01:47:00,320
Speaker 1: than k D's. Like, I don't really get that. I

2023
01:47:00,360 --> 01:47:03,040
Speaker 1: guess I get that when you make nine three pointers,

2024
01:47:03,080 --> 01:47:06,519
Speaker 1: it takes fewer possessions and it feels nine three points

2025
01:47:06,600 --> 01:47:10,160
Speaker 1: feels like fifteen three pointers. I got that. I got that.

2026
01:47:11,040 --> 01:47:14,280
Speaker 1: But when you miss nine three pointers or you missed threes,

2027
01:47:14,320 --> 01:47:16,120
Speaker 1: which he did go through a time which he wasn't

2028
01:47:16,120 --> 01:47:19,519
Speaker 1: making shots, those become arjuous. You shoot a quick he

2029
01:47:19,560 --> 01:47:25,439
Speaker 1: turned the basketball over. Empty possessions become uh, they like

2030
01:47:25,479 --> 01:47:28,040
Speaker 1: double down themselves when you're on the defensive end, like, man,

2031
01:47:28,080 --> 01:47:30,479
Speaker 1: we're playing all this defense just to watch you miss

2032
01:47:30,479 --> 01:47:34,479
Speaker 1: a chuck and duck three. So it does work both ways.

2033
01:47:35,880 --> 01:47:38,040
Speaker 1: But this idea, they're not they're not They're not better,

2034
01:47:38,040 --> 01:47:41,040
Speaker 1: they're just different. With Kevin Durant, well, they had to

2035
01:47:41,120 --> 01:47:44,000
Speaker 1: change the whole construct of the team because of the

2036
01:47:44,040 --> 01:47:47,799
Speaker 1: salary cap. Kevin Durants the best player, and you'd always

2037
01:47:47,880 --> 01:47:49,960
Speaker 1: rather have the best player on the floor rather than

2038
01:47:49,960 --> 01:47:52,320
Speaker 1: sitting on the bench. Doesn't mean that Steph Curry is

2039
01:47:52,320 --> 01:47:55,960
Speaker 1: a schmuck. He's awesome. He can't affect the game as

2040
01:47:56,040 --> 01:47:58,679
Speaker 1: often and at both ends the way that Kevin Durant

2041
01:47:58,760 --> 01:48:02,280
Speaker 1: can affect the game the different. But the team is

2042
01:48:02,320 --> 01:48:06,920
Speaker 1: better with k D. As for the draft lottery, I'll

2043
01:48:06,920 --> 01:48:12,240
Speaker 1: just say this, UM, I like John Morand at number two.

2044
01:48:12,800 --> 01:48:16,120
Speaker 1: I do think that his style of playing point guard,

2045
01:48:16,280 --> 01:48:19,519
Speaker 1: playing lead guard is one that will translate as long

2046
01:48:19,600 --> 01:48:21,679
Speaker 1: as he continues to improve on his three point shooting.

2047
01:48:22,160 --> 01:48:24,759
Speaker 1: But in the transition and open space of a regular

2048
01:48:24,760 --> 01:48:28,280
Speaker 1: season NBA game, he should be special. Uh. And I

2049
01:48:28,320 --> 01:48:31,439
Speaker 1: don't know why Anthony Davis wouldn't consider playing a year

2050
01:48:31,479 --> 01:48:34,439
Speaker 1: with Scion and then he can pick his spot, although

2051
01:48:34,439 --> 01:48:36,320
Speaker 1: I think he's pretty fried and he's just like, look,

2052
01:48:36,320 --> 01:48:38,720
Speaker 1: I'm done with this thing. Trade me, let me get

2053
01:48:38,760 --> 01:48:40,640
Speaker 1: to it. But if he goes to New York, are

2054
01:48:40,640 --> 01:48:42,439
Speaker 1: they gonna win right away? If he goes to l A,

2055
01:48:42,600 --> 01:48:44,880
Speaker 1: maybe they win right away. I don't know. I don't

2056
01:48:44,920 --> 01:48:48,040
Speaker 1: know how Anthony Davis and Lebron play together that ends

2057
01:48:48,120 --> 01:48:51,599
Speaker 1: up being perfect. I do think there's something to Jason

2058
01:48:51,640 --> 01:48:54,160
Speaker 1: Kidd joined that coaching staff where maybe it's that Jeff

2059
01:48:54,200 --> 01:48:58,439
Speaker 1: Schwartz is his kids agent, and Schwartz represents both Kemba

2060
01:48:58,520 --> 01:49:01,120
Speaker 1: and DeAndre Jordan's and maybe those are targets for the

2061
01:49:01,240 --> 01:49:04,240
Speaker 1: l A Lakers. I can only tell you this. I

2062
01:49:04,240 --> 01:49:06,720
Speaker 1: almost wish David s Turn would have popped out of

2063
01:49:06,720 --> 01:49:08,920
Speaker 1: nowhere and had a frozen envelope and had Zion in

2064
01:49:08,960 --> 01:49:11,320
Speaker 1: New York would have been fun, or even in Atlanta

2065
01:49:11,400 --> 01:49:13,960
Speaker 1: would have been fun. Instead, he's in New Orleans, which

2066
01:49:14,040 --> 01:49:17,519
Speaker 1: is kind of the witness protection program of the NBA.

2067
01:49:18,920 --> 01:49:21,920
Speaker 1: On one hand, he saves that franchise and gives them

2068
01:49:21,920 --> 01:49:25,280
Speaker 1: hope after trading Anthony Davis. On the other hand, it

2069
01:49:25,360 --> 01:49:28,800
Speaker 1: does feel like we're doomed to not see Zion play

2070
01:49:28,840 --> 01:49:33,880
Speaker 1: meaningful basketball for the next three or four years. All right,

2071
01:49:33,960 --> 01:49:36,599
Speaker 1: that's it for this edition of All Ball. Make sure

2072
01:49:36,640 --> 01:49:39,240
Speaker 1: you listen to my daily show twelve to three Pacific

2073
01:49:39,240 --> 01:49:41,960
Speaker 1: three to six Eastern time on Fox Sports Radio and

2074
01:49:41,960 --> 01:49:45,080
Speaker 1: on Fox Sports Trade dot com, Serius XM to S

2075
01:49:45,560 --> 01:49:50,720
Speaker 1: two oh three. We appreciate your listening, download, subscribe, and

2076
01:49:50,920 --> 01:49:54,959
Speaker 1: rate us my thanks to all my guests. I'm Doug Gottlieb,

2077
01:49:54,960 --> 01:50:04,960
Speaker 1: and this is all bu