1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Joe McCormick. And 4 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: today we're gonna be talking about a biological topic which 5 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: has has fascinated me for a while, ever since I 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: was reading about a family of frogs that I'm going 7 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: to come back to in a bit. And uh, and 8 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 1: this is the idea of transparency or translucency in animals, 9 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: animals that have clear or at least translucent skin or 10 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: other body parts. Yeah, and just thinking about this topic 11 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: brought me back made me think about some stories that 12 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: I probably haven't read in about twenty years now, but 13 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: the tales of Fritz Lieber genre Ryder, who lived nineteen 14 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: ten through fun Note he was the son of actor 15 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: Fritz Lieber, so he's technically junior to his senior. Fritz 16 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: Leeber Senior was in films like nineteen threes, Phantom of 17 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: the Opera starting Claude Rains, and then Fritz Lieber junr 18 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: Son Justin Lieber was a philosopher and a sci fi 19 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: author in his own right. I think at some point 20 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: I just popped open his Wikipedia page, and I saw 21 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: there was a top line reference to him also being, 22 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,759 Speaker 1: in addition to being like a sword and sorcery author 23 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: and science fiction author, a chess expert. And that was 24 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: one of those things where I was like, is that 25 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: real or is that just like something that that the 26 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: author themselves or someone associated with them kind of snuck 27 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: in there. I don't know, I'm not I'm not ass 28 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: up on the full Fritz Lieber biography there, but but 29 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: he wrote a lot of stuff in various genre works. 30 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: Some of his stories even were also adapted into I 31 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: think like a couple of episodes of Night Gallery back 32 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: in the day. But the closest, the thing that's closest 33 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: to my heart, the material that I'm familiar with, are 34 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: these stories he wrote about these two characters, uh Fowford 35 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: and the Gray Mouser. Uh So this is your sort 36 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: of iconic adventuring duo, and he's these stories helped him 37 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: make it iconic. You have a pair of barbarian in 38 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: a rogue and they get into all manner of adventures. 39 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: These were these were very popular stories. I think they 40 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: had an influence on the development of dungeons and dragons, 41 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: and they hold a hold up pretty well too. Well, 42 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: if it's a barbarian in a rogue that sounds like 43 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,799 Speaker 1: Conan and Subatie, Yeah yeah, yeah, very much of that 44 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: vein um so that they're great fun. They're always encountering 45 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: various enemies and magic and magical creatures. And in one 46 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: work in particular, I believe this is The Swords of 47 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:45,359 Speaker 1: Lankamer from Night, they encounter ghoules. Now, I love ghoules 48 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: as they appear in various other works of fiction. Uh, 49 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 1: these goals are very or rather different, and I think 50 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: when I first read Fritz Lieber's ghouls, I was a 51 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: little I wasn't mad into him. I was like this, 52 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: this is this is a little too different from what 53 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: I'm used to. I just want, you know, bone chewing 54 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: pallid humanoids, because he takes the idea in a in 55 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: a rather different direction. Okay, so your standard ghoul is 56 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: just a sort of deathly looking humanoid who hangs out 57 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: in graveyards and eats grave flesh, right right. These ghouls 58 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: have translucent anatomy. Essentially, they just look like a walking 59 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: skeleton because all of the soft tissues in their bodies 60 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: are transparent. So the only thing you can actually see 61 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: is the skeleton unless like the light is just right, 62 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: because you know, it's not true and it's not magical invisibility. 63 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: It's supposed to be uh, you know, translucent tissue based invisibility, 64 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: so you would only see the skeleton in most cases, 65 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: though there is more than the skeleton. They've got some 66 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: some fleshy, soft, squishy bits, but those those just let 67 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: the light pass right through. Yeah, everything is see through 68 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: except for the skeleton. So I actually just want to 69 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: read a little bit from the Swords of of Lachmar 70 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: from After an instant and shock, Fawford realized that these 71 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: must be ghouls, whose flesh and inner organs he had 72 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: heard with much skepticism, but now no longer were transparent, 73 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: except when the skin became slowly or rosalie translucent on 74 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: the genital organs or on the lops and small breasts 75 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: of their women. It was said also that they ate 76 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: only flesh human by preference, and that it was strange, indeed, 77 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: to watch the raw gobbits they gulped, course down and 78 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 1: churn within the bars of their ribs, gradually turning to 79 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: mush and fading from sight as their sightless blood assimilated 80 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: and transformed the food, granting that a mere normal man 81 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: might ever have the opportunity to watch Ghoule's feast without 82 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: becoming a supply of gobbitts himself. That is some pros. Yeah, yeah, 83 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: it was a good good writer. There's there's a lot 84 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: of fun and whimsy too. Um So, the ghouls in 85 00:04:55,080 --> 00:05:00,039 Speaker 1: this story they described themselves as being crystal fleshed and 86 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: h and that they see it as a sort of 87 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 1: sacred responsibility to consume the flesh of say, human beings, 88 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: because our flesh is um is murkier, you know, it's 89 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: it's not that translucent purity. So when they eat it, uh, 90 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: they eat our flesh, it eventually becomes translucent, It becomes 91 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: crystal inside of them. There's a female ghoul that pops 92 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: up in these stories that the believe of Fafford actually 93 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: ends up falling for after a while. And she also 94 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: has a great story about ghoul romance. Yeah yeah, google romance. Uh. 95 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: But there's a bit where where she's talking about like 96 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: the differences between um between ghouls and humans and she 97 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 1: tells him bones are beautiful, they're made to be seen. 98 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,679 Speaker 1: And there's another part where Faford asked his asking questions 99 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: about what's it like to be a ghoule, and he 100 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: picks up on a bit of a scientific critique that 101 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,559 Speaker 1: often comes up when discussing things like HD Wells Invisible Man. 102 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: He says, well, how can you see anything if light 103 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: passes right through you? He asked her if ghoules happened 104 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: to see with the inside of the back of their skulls, 105 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: and she responds, quote, look closely into my eyes, No, 106 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 1: without getting between them and the fire. Can you see 107 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: a small rainbow in each That's where the light is 108 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: refracted to the seeing part of my brain and a 109 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 1: very tiny real image formed there. I love alternative visual anatomy. 110 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: That's great. Yeah, I love that he made sure to 111 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: actually throw that in there to address how his ghouls 112 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: see anything. But anyway, like I said, when I first 113 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 1: read of these creatures, I was I was like, oh, 114 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: this is too different. I these are not googles I 115 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: can really get behind. But now, as we're about to 116 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: jump into the discussion of some amazing natural world organisms 117 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 1: that have various levels of translucency to their bodies, I'm 118 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 1: looking back on Fritz Leeber's ghouls and I'm like, these 119 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 1: are amazing. These ideas of these uh, these translucent fleshed 120 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: beings like jumping into battle with their axes and everyone 121 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 1: on the other side they just look like skeletons because 122 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: that's the only part that isn't see through. That is great. Okay, well, 123 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: I guess the first example of a of a real 124 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: animal I want to talk about today a group of 125 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: animals actually known as the glass frogs, and a little 126 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: bit of terminology distinction. I guess we've already said these words. 127 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: But um, but transparency versus translucency if you're not familiar, 128 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: Transparency you can think of as being clear like glass, 129 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: pretty much allowing all light to to pass through, whereas 130 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: translucency you can think of like frosted glass, is allowing 131 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: a lot of light to pass through, but not as 132 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: much as as a total clarity. You'll find that these 133 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: are though sometimes used interchangeably, even sometimes in scientific papers though. Yeah. So, 134 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: the so called glass frogs comprise many different species, but 135 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: they all belong to the family central in a day, 136 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: which is found in regions throughout Central and South America. 137 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: These are mostly arboreal creatures, meaning they live in trees, 138 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: often in rainforests and especially near sources of fresh water. 139 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: So if you want to find a glass frog, most 140 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: of the time a good place to look it's like 141 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: on leaves overhanging the bank of a jungle stream. But 142 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: if you were to go out looking for one of 143 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: these creatures, you might have a bit of difficulty. The 144 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: difficulty finding the frog even if you're looking right at 145 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: the leaf where it's perched, because glass frogs can blend 146 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: in very well with foliage, and Robbi attached a couple 147 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: of pictures for you to look at here of various 148 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: green and yellow species of glass frogs perched on a leaf. 149 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:43,719 Speaker 1: It's especially good to look at like a leaf that's 150 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: sort of lit from behind, and the frog will be 151 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: right next to a collection of what looked like little 152 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: semi transparent, semi opaque spherical globules, And these are actually 153 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: the frog's eggs. One of the most striking things about 154 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: the glass for family is their skin. Now, most species 155 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: of glass frogs appear from above to have a kind 156 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: of uh moderately translucent skin, especially on some parts of 157 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: their their dorsal sides, such as like the toes or 158 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: the legs, and so you can see the blurry specter 159 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: of bones in their toes or in their legs, which 160 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: is very creepy and very cool that this this would 161 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: be like crystal ghoules. You can actually see the bones 162 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: through the skin. Some species take this even further and 163 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: have not only semi translucent legs or parts of the backs, 164 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: but nearly totally transparent bellies. So this would be the 165 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: belly the ventral side. Again not all species, but with 166 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: some it can be almost as clear as glass, and 167 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: you can look through and see their internal organs in 168 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: full color, including a little tiny beating heart and a 169 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: big thick red artery going down the middle of the 170 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: of the inside of the stomach, big coiled white massive intestines, 171 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: and so forth. I mean they remind you of the 172 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: visible man and the visible woman anatomy kits. I think 173 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: we we all grew up with, uh, you know where 174 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: you have the plastics see through skin, and you have 175 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 1: you you put all the little organs in there. It's 176 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 1: it's like this frog, isn't it to be an anatomical 177 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: education tool? Now? Another feature only tangentially related to their 178 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:34,079 Speaker 1: transparency or translucency. If you've ever seen the Planet Earth 179 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: feature on glass frogs, it includes at least one species 180 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:42,239 Speaker 1: of glass frog that shows this amazing egg defense behavior. 181 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,839 Speaker 1: So with these frogs will often happen is that there 182 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: will be a clutch of fertilized eggs sticking to the 183 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: side of a leaf that may be hanging above the water, 184 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: and there will be a father frog guarding the eggs. 185 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: These eggs are apparently a favorite food of local carnivorous 186 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: wasps that will kind of zoom in and try to 187 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 1: you know, munch on them and pull the pull a 188 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: partially formed tadpole out of the egg and take it 189 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 1: away to eat it. But the frog fathers actually defend 190 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: their eggs literally by kicking the wasps, which is amazing 191 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: to watch. You should look up this clip. Yes, I 192 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: was watching this earlier as yeahs, As is often the 193 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: case with Planet Earth footage, very impressive, gorgeous to watch, 194 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 1: but it also really drives home how much the glass 195 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: frog looks like a clutch of eggs on the back 196 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: of that leaf. Yes, they often have marking or coloration 197 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: patterns on their backs. That makes the adult male frog 198 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: look like a clutch of eggs itself, so it just 199 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: kind of blends in and then when the wasp gets close, 200 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: it kicks. One of the amazing things is seeing So 201 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: it's this tiny little frog and a lot of these, uh, 202 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: these frogs are so small. They might be just a 203 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: you know, the size of the size of a finger tip, 204 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: maybe a couple of cinameters. I mean, they vary in 205 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: size with different species, but most of them are very small. 206 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: But then when you see that leg suddenly launch out 207 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: like a spring, it's like enormous that it's an incredible 208 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: how far it reaches. But to come back to the 209 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: glass element of the glass frog, what is this translucent 210 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:25,199 Speaker 1: or in some cases nearly transparent skin. For why would 211 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: it be of evolutionary benefit to this frog to to 212 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: have parts of its body being almost clear? Well, I 213 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: think for a long time it was presumed to have 214 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: some kind of role in camouflage, but we didn't really 215 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: know for sure. But there was a paper published in 216 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: by James B. Barnett at All in uh Proceedings of 217 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: the National Academy of Sciences called Imperfect Transparency and Camouflage 218 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: in glass Frogs, And this was really interesting. It did 219 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 1: some experiments to try to look at the translucent inin 220 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: of a glass frog and say, what does it actually 221 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: do in practice, like does it work as camouflage and 222 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: if so, how Now They start by giving some background 223 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: on biological camouflage in general. For example, camouflage patterns on 224 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: animals can can help in multiple ways. They say they 225 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: can prevent both detection and recognition, so you can imagine 226 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 1: those is two slightly different things. Preventing detection might mean 227 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: that a predator doesn't notice you at all, like they 228 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: don't see that you're there, whereas preventing recognition might mean 229 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: that if the predator sees you, it doesn't recognizize you 230 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: as what you are, maybe you look like something else. 231 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: And the authors mentioned that there are multiple ways camouflage works. 232 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: It can work by say, matching a background, and there 233 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: are lots of examples of this. But you can think 234 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: about a moth or a butterfly that has patterns and 235 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,479 Speaker 1: coloration on its wings that resemble the patterns and coloration 236 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 1: of the bark of the trees. It lands on the tree, 237 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: and it just kind of blends in. Another thing would 238 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: be mimicking particular background features, trying to trying to recreate 239 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: textures that would exist in the background. And another thing 240 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: would be disrupting or breaking up edges trying to have 241 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,599 Speaker 1: patterns that make it harder to tell where the outline 242 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: of an animal would be. But they raise an interesting question. 243 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: What if you're an animal that lives in a habitat 244 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: where you can't always predict an advance, what kind of 245 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: background you will be the foreground of What if you're 246 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: a vulnerable creature that needs camouflage but you live in 247 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: a highly variable environment. Evolution has at least one solution 248 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: to this, which is active color change. So, uh, we've 249 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: talked about this on the show before, but think of 250 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: octopuses with their chromatophore cells that allow them to shift 251 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: colors and blend in with seaweed or rocks or the 252 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: sandy floor of the ocean. There there are tons of 253 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: amazing videos of this. You can look up where you know, 254 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: you wouldn't even see it, Like an octopus just lands 255 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: among some rocks or some coral or seaweed or something 256 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: and it just becomes them. It's amazing. Yeah. I just, uh, 257 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: almost a year ago, I got to observe an octopus 258 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: in the wild and in Hawaii and uh yeah, it 259 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: got to watch it do this. It was amazing. Like 260 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: one of these situations where you watch it go to 261 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: some rocks or a bit of coral blend in. And 262 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: since you've been watching it, you can still make out 263 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: where it is. But if you move your eyes away 264 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: from it from just a step for just a second 265 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: and then come back, uh, you can't see it anymore. 266 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: It's still there right in front of you. But the 267 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: camouflage is so perfect. Uh, it's just quite amazing to 268 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: behold totally. And another classic example one probably everybody is 269 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: familiar with chameleons. They can change colors to match background, uh, 270 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: the surfaces in order to better blend in. But of 271 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: course having something like chromato four cells evolving this capability 272 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: is is of course a very niche evolutionary specialization, so 273 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: you need that that history feeding into it is also 274 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: of course biologically costly, and the authors point out that 275 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: the efficacy of active color change can actually be limited 276 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: by things such as the range of patterns available. So 277 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: an animal that can actively change it's it's markings and 278 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: color patterns can't do that to an infinite degree of flexibility. 279 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: You know, it's still it's going to have surface features 280 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: and colors and and like it can change somewhat, but 281 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: it can't look like absolutely anything, right. And another thing 282 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: is the speed of change, So it takes a minute. 283 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: You know, you can see this even with octopuses that 284 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: can change very fast, but it still takes a few 285 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: seconds sometimes. So is there any other way to blend 286 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: in with your surroundings? Well, what about transparency. Transparency, of 287 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: course has the ability to create very high fidelity camouflage 288 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: because you can literally see through to the background. They 289 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: can match anything in the background. There's no limitation on 290 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 1: the colors or patterns available because you're just actually seeing 291 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: the background, and it works instantaneously. There's no time needed 292 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: to change if you just are transparent. Of course, there 293 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: are difficulties with transparency as well, but one example I 294 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 1: might use would be um if you've ever seen pictures 295 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: of this, there is a butterfly known as the glass 296 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: wing butterfly that has uh, you know, like all butterflies, 297 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: it has large, beautiful wings, but most of the surface 298 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 1: of its wings is actually transparent, like a like a 299 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: pane of glass. It has a sort of orange and 300 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 1: black and white outline of the wings, but most of 301 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: the wings you can just see right through them and 302 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: they're not even reflective. They don't cause a glare. I 303 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: was watching a video about this. Actually, in the glass 304 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: wing butterflies are able to prevent their wings from being 305 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: too reflective or or or shining back with a glare 306 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: by having these little tiny nano pillars of wax on 307 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: the surface of the transparent membranes that sort of break 308 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: up light patterns. I think kind of like the way 309 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 1: that you might have, uh, you know, cones of foam 310 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: on the walls of a studio to break up the 311 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: reflection of sound waves. On this they would break up 312 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: the reflection of light waves with these tiny little wax 313 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: spikes all over the wings. Of course you can't see 314 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: them because they're too small. Instead, it just looks like 315 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: clear glass. Yeah, these are weird to see in in 316 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: the wild because it does look even as they're you're 317 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: watching them fly around, it looks like, well, something or 318 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,199 Speaker 1: something has come along and just punch sections of their 319 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: wing out. Uh, it's just completely translucent. But the wings 320 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,719 Speaker 1: wouldn't work, of course, if they just had holes in them. Instead, 321 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 1: they actually had to evolve layers of cells in their wings, 322 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: thin layers of cells that would allow light to pass 323 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: right through and would prevent the surface of the wings 324 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: from picking up glare from the sunlight, but also would 325 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 1: still be solid enough to work as wings. Yeah, that 326 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 1: they're they're sort of like Wonder Woman's invisible plane, right right, right, 327 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: But I think it works for the butterfly because the 328 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 1: material of wings can be very thin, right, it's a 329 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: sort of thin. I believe it's made mostly of kitan 330 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: in this case, you know, kitan and and cells that 331 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: can allow that to happen. It's gonna be harder to 332 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: do with, say, like the thick, fleshy body parts of 333 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: something like a frog. And they're also strategic limitations to 334 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: camouflage via transparency, especially on land. Some aquatic animals use 335 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: transparency for camouflage, and we'll get more into that in 336 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: a bit when I know there's some examples you wanted 337 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: to talk about, rob but terrestrial animals run into some 338 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 1: different problems because on land, the author's right quote, image 339 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: distortion maybe more obvious than in water, and that kind 340 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: of makes sense, right, It might be easier to see 341 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: the weird way that even a pretty clear thing like 342 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,360 Speaker 1: a glass wing, butterflies wing still causes a little bit 343 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: of distortion in the background. It does. It's not as 344 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: if there's nothing there. It's just remarkably clear for an 345 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: actual biological surface. Now, of course, glass frogs are terrestrial animals. 346 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 1: They make use of transparency or translucency, especially pronounced in 347 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 1: some species, and it is presumably a camouflage tactic, but 348 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: as I said earlier, we don't really know for sure, 349 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,239 Speaker 1: or at least before this paper, it was harder to know, 350 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 1: Like is, if it is a camouflage tactic, how exactly 351 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: does it work and does it does it work at all? 352 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: Could that be empirically verified? Uh, and especially given some 353 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 1: strange features such as the fact that the that in 354 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: the ones that are very clear, the really clear part 355 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: of the skin is usually on the ventral side, the 356 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: belly side, and that's the part that would be facing 357 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: down to the surface that they're perched on. More often 358 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: they tend to have some dorsal pigmentation, so on the 359 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: back they might have sort of green and yellow color patterns. 360 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: You can see they're not totally clear on the back. 361 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: And so the authors of this paper did a number 362 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: of different experiments contained within it to to try to 363 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: figure out what was going on with these frogs. So 364 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: they like simulated the vision of predators that prey on 365 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,199 Speaker 1: the frogs in the lab and looked at frogs with 366 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: differing levels of translucency or opacity to see if it 367 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 1: made a difference for those predators. They also tested it 368 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: just with humans looking at them to see if there 369 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: were differences in in detection or recognition times based on 370 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,360 Speaker 1: how translucent or opaque the frog is. And then they 371 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: also performed an experiment in the wild with simulated frogs. 372 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: They like made fake glass frogs out of gelatin uh 373 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: with with different levels of opacity versus translucency to see 374 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: if it affected predation. And what these experiments found was 375 00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: that the quote perceived luminants of the frogs was the 376 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: big thing that really changed, and it changed depending on 377 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: the background compared to opaque frogs. So I think one 378 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: of the really important things to understand here is that 379 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: the translucency of the glass frog doesn't actually change the 380 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: color of the frog very much. I mean it's it's 381 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: basically most of them have some kind of green or 382 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: green yellow coloration pattern and that pretty much stays the same. 383 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: What actually changes is the amount of light that is 384 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 1: allowed to pass through the frog, and specifically parts of 385 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: the frogs, such as the outlines of the toes and 386 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 1: the legs, and the transparency of these frogs actually did 387 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: help them blend in with the background, especially when they're 388 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: you know, they're on something like a leaf, and it 389 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 1: will allow light to pass through their bodies in a 390 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 1: manner consistent with the leaf underneath, especially at the edges 391 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 1: where their legs are meeting the surface. And they did 392 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: find ecologically that this level of transparency did increase survival. 393 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: So frogs that let more light through their skin got 394 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: preyed on by birds less. Now coming to I mentioned 395 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: the legs, they say that the legs made the biggest 396 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 1: difference here. They said it was the legs quote which 397 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 1: surround the body at rest and create a diffuse transition 398 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,880 Speaker 1: from background to frog luminants, rather than a sharp, highly 399 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: salient edge. So I think that's the important way to 400 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 1: think about this. What does the glass frogs translucent skin do. 401 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 1: It doesn't make the frog invisible, and it doesn't necessarily 402 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 1: change the color of the frog. Instead, what it does 403 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: is it sort of erases the outline of the frog 404 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: instead of a sharp line of color change or high 405 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: contrast between the frog and its background. Instead, there's a 406 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 1: gradual soft transition from background to frog because the frog 407 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: skin allows that light to pass through. And this is 408 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 1: a camouflage strategy they call edge diffusion. The real purpose 409 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,919 Speaker 1: is to take away your body's outline. Yeah, I mean 410 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: you see that in various like military camouflage designs as well. 411 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: And it always makes me think of have you ever 412 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: seen these examples of playing cards from World War Two 413 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: where each plane card has the outline of a different 414 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: enemy aircraft on it, The idea being that it will 415 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: sort of while I guess the soldiers are sent around 416 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: playing cards, they'll also end up boning up on what 417 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: particular enemy aircraft look like, what their outlines look like 418 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,919 Speaker 1: in the sky, so they can identify them. Uh. So 419 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: you know, it's a it would be kind of like, then, okay, 420 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,479 Speaker 1: if we have the basic outline of the of the 421 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: airplane uh in people's minds, well, what can we do 422 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: to break up that outline so that it's not instantly identifiable? 423 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: Because whether you're talking about animals or you're talking about 424 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: uh in the natural environment, or you're talking about humans 425 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:02,959 Speaker 1: in a military situation, it like seeing something identifying something 426 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,919 Speaker 1: and then comes whatever the action is. And if you 427 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: can break up that chain of reactions, then you can 428 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: buy yourself some time. Right, And the the outline is 429 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:17,199 Speaker 1: incredibly important for that recognition component. Like rob again, you 430 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: can look at these pictures I attached near the top 431 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: of this section here, both of which are of glass 432 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 1: frogs perching on a green leaf that's being sort of 433 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: brightly lit or lit from behind. And in both cases, actually, 434 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: no matter which direction the light sources coming from, the 435 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: soft diffuse edges of the frog really do help it 436 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: kind of look more just like a kind of spot 437 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: sun a leaf or something. Yeah, like I In both 438 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: of these cases, it's the frog is pictured next to 439 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: a pile of the eggs, and like I say, the 440 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,679 Speaker 1: frog looks more like a pile of eggs than a frog. 441 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 1: It looks more like you know, you look at it, 442 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 1: and you're more likely to say, what is that weird 443 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,880 Speaker 1: jelly shape? Oh it's a frog, as opposed to instantly 444 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: I identifying a frog. It just throws you off, even 445 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: for even just a fraction of a second. Uh. And 446 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: this is in a case where we know what we're 447 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: looking at. It's supposed to be a picture of a frog. Yeah, 448 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: And sometimes a fraction of a second is all you need, 449 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,959 Speaker 1: maybe if you're trying to avoid the gaze of a 450 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: bird that's passing by, or a wasp that's passed by, 451 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: or you're trying to kick a wasp in the face, 452 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. But as I mentioned a minute ago, 453 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 1: while the the use of translucency or transparency in animals 454 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: is uh somewhat rare on land, it's actually more common 455 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 1: in the water, and there are some amazing examples in 456 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: in marine organisms. That's right. Yeah, there are a number 457 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,880 Speaker 1: of examples that I think line up quite well with 458 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: with camouflage and uh. And in all cases, I guess 459 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: it helps to be kind of small. The smaller you 460 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: are as an organism, the the easier it's going to 461 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: be to have some sort of translucency or transparency to 462 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: your body. Um. That being said, there are some very 463 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 1: large jellies, uh, you know, to take up a fair 464 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: amount of space that of sir or to varying degrees translucent. 465 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: But this is why the chances of actually seeing something 466 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: like one of Fritz Leiber's googles, or say a translucent 467 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 1: elephant are are pretty slim. But an internet, yeah, there 468 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 1: are a lot of a lot of creatures in the 469 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: sea that that match up with this. You have things 470 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 1: like glass octopi and so forth. Um, but yeah, they're 471 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: also do some really strange fish in the sea. There 472 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: are so many strange fish in the see that frankly, 473 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,239 Speaker 1: not being a strange fish is a bit strange. And 474 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 1: one of the stranger fish that you'll likely see is 475 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: an image of the barrel i fish Macropinna microstoma. So 476 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: I think a lot of you've probably seen this image before. 477 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: And if you were to look up micro Piana microstoma 478 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: or just look up barrel eye, you'll see the one 479 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: or two famous images of this fish. It's a fish 480 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 1: so strange that you'll likely say, well, where does the 481 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 1: fish get off looking so strange? And then hearing you, 482 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: this fish will gaze you with its tu tubular eyes 483 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: staring straight through the translucent, fluid filled shield that composes 484 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 1: the upper portion of its head. This is uh, just 485 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: a bizarre and I think oddly kind of cute looking 486 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 1: fish at least. And then, like I said, they're there 487 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,239 Speaker 1: are a couple of photographs that are that are out 488 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: there just all over the place. Because this one really 489 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: tore up the nature blogs years ago, and even I 490 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: think you're less scientifically inclined boards and and so forth. 491 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: We're like, what is this? Look at this strange creature. 492 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: How can this be? You know? What it reminds me 493 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: of is I had to look up the name of 494 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: this because I didn't know what it was called. But 495 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: the remember those glass balls they would have in like 496 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: Worlds of Wonder or something with the the electricity and sid. Yeah, 497 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: it's apparently called a plasma globe or a plasma lamp. Yeah, 498 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: it looks kind of like a plasma lamp for sure. Yeah. 499 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: So it's like a it's like a clear glass ball, 500 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: and then inside it'll be filled with some kind noble gas, 501 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: I don't know, neon or something, and then it will 502 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: have a high voltage electrode in the middle. And I guess, 503 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: so what when you touch the you touch the glass, 504 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 1: it's sort of like tries to jolt out at you. Well, 505 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: that's what this fish's head looks like that you're just 506 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: looking in it. I don't know if that's brains or 507 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: what it's. It's it looks like plasma. Yeah, this this 508 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: creature is so to be clear, most of this fish 509 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: is not translucent or transparent, but the top of the 510 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: head is and inside you see primarily these two big 511 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: tubular type globes and these are the creature's eyes. So 512 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: I'll get back in a second to what this means. 513 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: But um, this creature is the the only known member 514 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: of their genus, but they are part of the barrel 515 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: eye family or pisto proc today home to the spook 516 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: fishes as they're called, with that that all have these 517 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: weird tubular telescoping eyes. Um. Now, these deep sea creatures 518 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: have eyes like this, so they can uh look, they 519 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: can lock into a vertical position, but they can also 520 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: scan the depths above for possible prey. So so I 521 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: imagine yourself living kind of deep, but you're you're also 522 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: concerned with the the lighter regions of the ocean above 523 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: you because that's where potential food is. So you need 524 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: to be able to look straight up while yourself remaining 525 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: in a horizontal position, and so that's what they've evolved 526 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: to do. But then they can also direct them forward 527 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: as well, obviously to aid in such forward facing ventures 528 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: as say, actually eating the prey or dealing with things 529 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: that are happening on your level of the ocean. But 530 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: all these other tubular eyes spook fishes, Uh, they do 531 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: not have this this strange translucent head situation going on. 532 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 1: This is something that we find particularly in the macro 533 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: penum microstoma. And I was reading about them in a paper. 534 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: This was published in the journal Copeia. But it's by 535 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: authors Robert Robinson and a Rising Bituler, and it's titled 536 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: macro Penum Microstoma and the Paradox of its Tubular Eyes. 537 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: So I want to read. I want to read just 538 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: a quote from this quote. The most striking aspect of 539 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: these fishes, when first viewed in situ, is the transparent 540 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: cow like shield that covers the top of the head 541 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: and the prominent tubular eyes. Within the shield is a tough, 542 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: flexible integument that attaches to dorsal and medial scales behind 543 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: the head and to the broad, transparent subocular bones that 544 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: protect the eyes. Latterly, this fragile structure is typically lost 545 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: or collapsed during capture by nets, and it has not 546 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 1: been previously described or figured. Beneath the shield is a 547 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: fluid filled chamber that surrounds and protects the eyes. Okay, 548 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: so first of all, one of the things they mentioned, 549 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 1: there's something we've discussed regarding deep sea creatures as well. 550 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: You know, you you bring these up through the depths, 551 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: stuff employ modes or explodes, etcetera, and you really implodes, 552 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 1: I guess gets torn and what you end up with 553 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: is kind of like the deflated balloon version of the 554 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: animal as it would exist in the depths. Yeah, this 555 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: would be like sometimes people go fishing for deep sea 556 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: fish and pull them up and it looks like they've 557 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: got some giant tongue sticking out of their mouth. That's 558 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: actually like their guts being inverted by the change in 559 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: pressure because they've got like a swim bladder, and then 560 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 1: when that comes up to when they come up the 561 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,959 Speaker 1: pressure is too low, that inflates and it pops their 562 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: stomach out. Is really gross. Yeah, So sometimes you'll see 563 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: threads where people are like, look at this blobfish. How disgusting? 564 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: What disgusting things live in the depths, And you almost 565 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: want to see a Gary Larson far side reversal of 566 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: that situation where you have the like luminous and deep 567 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: sea creatures that are all spread out in ballooney and 568 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: they have dragged like a human body down into the 569 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: crushing depths. And they're like, look at this thing, look 570 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: at this disgusting creature from the surface world. Yeah, or 571 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: just pulled literally pull your body into the vacuum of 572 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: space and say like what a what a whimp. But 573 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: but anyway, this description they give of which I really 574 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: like it, describing it as a cowl like shield. Like 575 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: what they're saying here is that there is this this 576 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 1: clear like shield on the top of their head. It's 577 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: filled with fluid, and inside that fluid behind that shield 578 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 1: are its eyes. And so this is wondrous when you 579 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 1: start thinking about, well, what does it mean when you 580 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: have translucency or transparency as an option for uh, for 581 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: flesh on a being you know, imagined or otherwise well, 582 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: like to come back to Fritz Lieber's ghouls, it would 583 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: mean why do you need your eyes to to to 584 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: be on the outside of your body at all? Why 585 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: not have more material there between your delicate eyes and 586 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: the you know, the harmful, scabby outside world. That's an 587 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: amazing point. Yes, if you have parts of your body 588 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: that are as clear as glass, you could put your 589 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: eyes inside those parts. And yeah, yeah, I mean in 590 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: a way you could already say that's sort of true. 591 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it's not true because I mean, 592 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: we have focusing parts that are basically right on the 593 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 1: exposed parts of our eyes, the cornea and the lens 594 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: and all that. But you could say that the light 595 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: sensing cells in our retina are they're not exposed to 596 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 1: the outside there in the back of the eye. Um. 597 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: So you could just take that another step further and 598 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 1: just say, well, let's add another clear protective layer. Um, 599 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,439 Speaker 1: except that's just like your skin now outside the eye. Yeah. 600 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: And of course with fish too, you can also I 601 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 1: think there's also a strong argument to being made for 602 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: like the various like slimy membranes that coat of fish 603 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: as being an extra level of protection that is generally 604 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: translucent as well. But oh and you know, just to 605 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 1: mention the Fritz labor cool thing again. Uh. We also 606 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: when thinking about eyes, we also have to remember that 607 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,799 Speaker 1: with human eyes, uh, we also have eyelids. Because it's 608 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,759 Speaker 1: not just about what light does when it enters the eye. 609 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: We also need to control how much light is entering 610 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,720 Speaker 1: the eye, something that would be I guess quite difficult 611 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:14,320 Speaker 1: if you if your your eyelids were completely transparent. Yeah. Anyway, 612 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 1: back to this theory because this fish is ultimately even 613 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 1: more amazing because its head is kind of like a 614 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: space helmet, you know, with eyes looking out through the 615 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,439 Speaker 1: substance of this call like shield. And so this leads 616 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 1: to the big question, why is it like this like 617 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,320 Speaker 1: this is this isn't surely isn't a case of camouflage, 618 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 1: and it doesn't seem to be a case of like 619 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 1: breaking up the overall outline of the organism. So what 620 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,320 Speaker 1: is the deal? So the authors here of this paper, 621 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: they write that the main hypothesis is that the shield 622 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: is there for protection. It provides protection for these eyes 623 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 1: from the tentacles of Nigerians, one of the apparent sources 624 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: of food for this fish, So we're talking about like 625 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:01,839 Speaker 1: stinging jellyfishes and the like. So they're gazing up, they're 626 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,720 Speaker 1: hoping to catch sight of some sort of swirling jelly 627 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: mass of deliciousness. But the thing about that swirling mass 628 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 1: of jelly deliciousness is that it also will have tentacles 629 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 1: and nematicists in there that can can damage your tissue. 630 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: All the better than if there's this extra layer of 631 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 1: protection between your delicate eyes and all of that. All 632 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,880 Speaker 1: of those bioweapons, so it's able to rise up and 633 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,439 Speaker 1: uh and entangle itself and all of that and start 634 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 1: eating without damaging its eyes. But so you say this 635 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: is just the reigning hypothesis. I guess this is difficult 636 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: to test because this is like a delicate deep sea 637 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: organism and it's access Yeah. Yeah, but it seems seems 638 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 1: to be the best argument for what's going on here 639 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,760 Speaker 1: and uh and yeah, and it makes sense. Why else 640 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,320 Speaker 1: have your your eyes so secluded inside of this this 641 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: strange space helmet like uh like head cranial feature. It's 642 00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: it's amazing. I love this fish. Yeah, and again these 643 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: images are quite captivating. A lot of people were amazed 644 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 1: by this because it looking at it, not knowing what 645 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 1: you're looking at, it's easy to mistake of some details 646 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 1: on the front of the fishes, I mean, for lack 647 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,360 Speaker 1: of a better word, face thinking those of the eyes. 648 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: And it has maybe like two globular brains or something, 649 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: but that the globular things that the things that look 650 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: like a pair of um of globes, those are the eyes. Wow. 651 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 1: And if you the thing is, if you look up 652 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,759 Speaker 1: examples of other tubular eyed fish, you can see this 653 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: a little better. However, this fish is so popular that 654 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: if you do Google image searches for tubular eyed fish, 655 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 1: you're probably gonna mostly just see this guy because he's 656 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 1: just really taken over. He's been an Internet sensation steal 657 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:51,479 Speaker 1: in the limelight. But macropinna is not the only fish 658 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: that incorporates transparent or translucent body elements, right right, Uh, 659 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,279 Speaker 1: there are a number of other ones. And you know 660 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 1: now that you set it up, so I I had 661 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 1: an example of just a purely camouflage based translucent fish. 662 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,440 Speaker 1: But my next example, uh kind of excuse the definition 663 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 1: a little bit um, but but does contain some some 664 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,879 Speaker 1: species and specimens that have a translucent look to them. 665 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: Uh so, and we're dealing with the crocodile ice fish. 666 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: These composed an entire family Chennic to Day of fish 667 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 1: that are found in the icy waters of the southern 668 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,359 Speaker 1: Ocean ant Heatarctica. Now, some of these are again small 669 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 1: enough that photographs of the of specimens and species with 670 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 1: the right lighting do look partially translucent. But other species 671 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 1: in particular specimens certainly don't look crystal like. They just 672 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,760 Speaker 1: look like some sort of a weird big headed gray fish. However, 673 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: the most interesting thing about these fish is their blood 674 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:53,720 Speaker 1: sometimes described as white blood or translucent blood or transparent blood. 675 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,839 Speaker 1: This is because their blood is lacking hemoglobin, and they're 676 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 1: the only known vertebrates to lack hemoglobin in their blood 677 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: as adults. Oh wow, interesting and Joe, if you scan 678 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 1: down in the notes here, I included an image here 679 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: from the study I'm about to site which you get 680 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 1: to see red blooded fish blood and then also an 681 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 1: example of the the milky white almost translated, I would say, 682 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 1: translucent blood of these crocodile fish. So it's it's not 683 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 1: quite androids in the alien franchise level of white blood. 684 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 1: It's not like, you know, milk coming out of their bodies. 685 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 1: White blood. Yeah, that was milk. Yeah. This reminds me 686 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:39,320 Speaker 1: of certain um spirits alcohols that you'll find that have 687 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 1: kind of a uh like an opay milky consistency without 688 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 1: being like that white. But any rate, it's pointed out 689 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 1: by Siddle and O'Brien in When Bad Things Happen to 690 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 1: Good Fish excellent title published in Journal of Experimental Biology 691 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 1: in two thousand six. This is a unique trait due 692 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: to their cold, isolated environment resulting and not only the 693 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:06,480 Speaker 1: loss of hemoglobin expression, but sometimes myoglobin expression is well 694 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,360 Speaker 1: and to refresh. Hemoglobin is a red protein responsible for 695 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 1: transporting oxygen in the blood of vertebrates, and myoglobin is 696 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 1: a red protein containing heme, which carries in stores oxygen 697 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: in muscle cells. Right. Myoglobin is a great example, Like 698 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:23,960 Speaker 1: if you ever cut open a piece of meat that 699 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 1: you get, you know, the grocery store, that's probably and 700 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,400 Speaker 1: it's got like some red juice coming out of it. 701 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,240 Speaker 1: People often call that blood. They think it is blood. 702 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 1: But you know, an animal that's been butchered has usually 703 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,000 Speaker 1: been drained of its blood. That's gonna be myoglobin. It's this. 704 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 1: It's the sort of pinkish fluid within the muscles. Yeah. 705 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,120 Speaker 1: So without either of these being expressed in the organism, 706 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,440 Speaker 1: the result is that their blood is white or colorless 707 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 1: or transparent, if you will. So the authors here point 708 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,439 Speaker 1: out a few key details about the environment that these 709 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 1: fish have evolved to thrive in. So, first of all, 710 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,400 Speaker 1: is really cold here, obviously, uh, And it's it's not 711 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,759 Speaker 1: only really cold, but it's oxygen rich. Quote, because oxygen 712 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:08,680 Speaker 1: solubility and seawater is inversely proportional to temperature. The cold 713 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:14,480 Speaker 1: Antarctic seas thus are an exceptionally oxygen rich aquatic habitat all. 714 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 1: Right on top of that, it's isolated. Um, so you 715 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:23,160 Speaker 1: have circumpolar currents and deep ocean trenches surrounding the continent 716 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:27,600 Speaker 1: of Antarctica, cutting these creatures off from other fauna. And 717 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,440 Speaker 1: then also the authors state that these fish need to 718 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,840 Speaker 1: be evolved with very little niche competition due to a 719 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:39,879 Speaker 1: mid tertiary through present crash in fish diversity. So they've evolved, yeah, yeah, 720 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,319 Speaker 1: So they've evolved to do without hemoglobin because of their 721 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,759 Speaker 1: low metabolic rates in this cold environment, but also due 722 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 1: to the high solubility of oxygen in the water at 723 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,240 Speaker 1: the low temperatures in this environment. However, since their blood 724 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,120 Speaker 1: carries less than ten percent of the oxygen carried in 725 00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:01,120 Speaker 1: red fish blood, they've also evolved other cardi of vascular adaptations, 726 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:06,160 Speaker 1: including enormous hearts with cardiac rates that are quote four 727 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 1: to fivefold greater than that of red blooded species. And 728 00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 1: so yeah, so the authors drive home that this is 729 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,759 Speaker 1: blood that works really well with creatures that live in 730 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:20,640 Speaker 1: a stable cold water environment, and this region stabilized in 731 00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,919 Speaker 1: such a way roughly ten to fourteen million years ago. 732 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,640 Speaker 1: Allowing ice fish like this to thrive. And again, these 733 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:29,840 Speaker 1: are strange looking fish. You look at them, uh that 734 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,920 Speaker 1: Sometimes they do look extremely translucent. Other times it's just 735 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,759 Speaker 1: kind of a weird looking gray, big headed fish. When 736 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,840 Speaker 1: you know there's a big honking heart in there working 737 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,440 Speaker 1: extra hard. It looks like a fish that would uh 738 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,680 Speaker 1: fallen off the garage and hit Ralphie in the eye 739 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:53,320 Speaker 1: and yeah, broke his glasses. Uh. Speaking of you know, 740 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,200 Speaker 1: coming back to fictional accounts, I know that the image 741 00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,880 Speaker 1: of Micropinna, as well as images of some of the 742 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,719 Speaker 1: is translucent glass frogs. I think they must have influenced 743 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,239 Speaker 1: the animators on the series Adventure Time, because I can 744 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,239 Speaker 1: think of a few different cases where you had some 745 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,040 Speaker 1: sort of a creature pop up on that show that 746 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,080 Speaker 1: had some sort of translucent aspect of its anatomy. That 747 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,600 Speaker 1: reminds me of both of these creatures. If one does 748 00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 1: an Internet search for Adventure Time Frog Wizard, you'll see 749 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:29,200 Speaker 1: a character named Buffo that I remember showing up. Yeah, okay, 750 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,359 Speaker 1: so wait, am I looking at the translucent element here? 751 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,760 Speaker 1: Looks like it's the throat sack right, kind of puffs 752 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:39,360 Speaker 1: up the sack and the sack is translucent, right, Buffo 753 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,600 Speaker 1: has two wizard hats on his head. But yeah, when 754 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,319 Speaker 1: he puffs up his throat, you see several different little 755 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,240 Speaker 1: tadpoles in there that are actually the ones that speak, 756 00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:51,480 Speaker 1: and each of them has a little wizard hat as well. 757 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,800 Speaker 1: Oh wow, oh this is also this is a different 758 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 1: biological connection. The frogs that keep their they incubate their 759 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,840 Speaker 1: tadpoles inside their mouths or digestive systems. Yeah, yeah, I 760 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,520 Speaker 1: feel like for the biological trifecta here, they should also 761 00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,759 Speaker 1: have this wizard frog vomit up its own stomach and 762 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,600 Speaker 1: scrape it out with its hands and then swallow the stomach. Again. 763 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,920 Speaker 1: I got into some of this on a monster factor 764 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,840 Speaker 1: while back about I can't remember its name offhand, but 765 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:24,040 Speaker 1: the creature from Supermyo Brothers Too that spits eggs out 766 00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 1: of its mouth, Remember that thing? Yeah yeah, But the 767 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,239 Speaker 1: closest comparison, jolly that I could make between that in 768 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,520 Speaker 1: the natural world, it takes us to the realm of 769 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:36,960 Speaker 1: amphibians and frogs of um incubating their eggs in curious 770 00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,000 Speaker 1: places and in some cases ejecting them. This makes me 771 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:41,719 Speaker 1: feel like we got to do the biology of why 772 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,480 Speaker 1: the princess can float for two seconds? She did. She 773 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,279 Speaker 1: was good. She was my go to because she could 774 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,080 Speaker 1: do that little flying thing. I would generally do her, 775 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,319 Speaker 1: or I would do Luigi, but I almost never did 776 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,960 Speaker 1: Mario were Toad? What was Toads deal? Could he throw 777 00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,160 Speaker 1: farther or something? I don't even remember. Toad was just 778 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:01,640 Speaker 1: a I to. Didn't work for me, But then again, 779 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,480 Speaker 1: I definitely didn't beat that game, did not make it 780 00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:06,440 Speaker 1: that far. I got as far as like, there's some 781 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,800 Speaker 1: sort of a hydras snake, and that was that was 782 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,520 Speaker 1: the limit. There's a lot of pulling up radishes and 783 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:15,080 Speaker 1: that one and then pulling up of radishes and throwing 784 00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:18,320 Speaker 1: a red That was pretty satisfying, I guess, but that 785 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,200 Speaker 1: was way too hard for me as a kid. I guess. 786 00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:26,480 Speaker 1: Berdo Burdo was that creature's name. I had, all Right, 787 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:28,919 Speaker 1: does that do it for today? I believe it does. 788 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,560 Speaker 1: We're gonna go and call it on this episode. Though again, 789 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,640 Speaker 1: there are a number of other translucent creatures we didn't 790 00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:37,920 Speaker 1: have time to get into on this episode. So if 791 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,960 Speaker 1: you have a particular favorite that we didn't cover right 792 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:42,600 Speaker 1: in about it, we'd love to discuss it. Maybe we 793 00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,720 Speaker 1: can break it down in a future episode, future listener 794 00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:50,320 Speaker 1: mail something like that. Also, if you have thoughts on translucent, 795 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:54,400 Speaker 1: fleshed beings and various fictional works, I'm sure it's not 796 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:56,439 Speaker 1: just Fritz Leeper. There have to be some other ones 797 00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,959 Speaker 1: that I'm not thinking of, or you know, the people 798 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,000 Speaker 1: that were influenced by by Fritz Lieber or the people 799 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,080 Speaker 1: that influence Fritz liber I'm not sure there might be 800 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,600 Speaker 1: some older examples to draw on, but at any rate, 801 00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:08,279 Speaker 1: we'd love to hear from you on any and all 802 00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,640 Speaker 1: of that. We remind you that Stuff to Blow Your 803 00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:14,239 Speaker 1: Mind is primarily a science podcast, with our episodes coming 804 00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,560 Speaker 1: out on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Those are the core episodes 805 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,640 Speaker 1: and the Stuff to Blow your Mind podcast feed We 806 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,920 Speaker 1: usually do listener mail on Mondays. We also do a 807 00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,600 Speaker 1: short form artifact or monster fact on Wednesdays, and on 808 00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:27,600 Speaker 1: Fridays we do Weird How Cinema. That's our time to 809 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,239 Speaker 1: set aside most serious concerns and just talk about a 810 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,400 Speaker 1: strange film. Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio 811 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,399 Speaker 1: producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get 812 00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,759 Speaker 1: in touch with us with feedback on this episode or 813 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:40,920 Speaker 1: any other. To suggest a topic for the future, or 814 00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,600 Speaker 1: just to say hello, You can email us at contact 815 00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:53,520 Speaker 1: at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to 816 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,080 Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind is production of I Heart Radio. 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