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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My

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Speaker 2: name is Joe McCormick. My regular co host Rob Lamb

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Speaker 2: is not with me today. He's going to be back,

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Speaker 2: I think, for tomorrow's episode. So instead of Rob today,

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Speaker 2: I am being joined once again by my friends and colleagues,

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Speaker 2: Annie Reese and Lauren Vogelbaum, hosts of the food podcast Saver. Today,

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Speaker 2: we're going to be recording part two of our series

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Speaker 2: called Food Storage Mad Science, all about weird, spooky, and

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Speaker 2: surprising things that can happen to leftovers and other foods

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Speaker 2: during storage. If you haven't heard part one of this

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Speaker 2: series that was Tuesday of this week, I'd recommend going

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Speaker 2: back and listening to that one first, though I guess

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Speaker 2: I don't know. The stuff we're talking about is not

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Speaker 2: fully sequential, so if you'd rather listen to this one first,

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Speaker 2: that that's okay too. But Annie and Lauren welcome back.

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Speaker 1: Hi. Yeah, thanks for having us back.

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Speaker 3: Yes, thank you.

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Speaker 2: Okay. So, in part one of the series, we talked

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Speaker 2: about two main food transformation phenomena. One was based on

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Speaker 2: an anecdote that actually happened to me where a tray

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Speaker 2: of leftover baked pasta eight holes in a sheet of

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Speaker 2: aluminum foil while I had it stored in the refrigerator.

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Speaker 2: We spent a while getting to the bottom of what

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Speaker 2: exactly happened there and ended up discovering a pretty firm,

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Speaker 2: but fascinating and bizarre answer. And then the other thing

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Speaker 2: we talked about last time was the chemical process by

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Speaker 2: which cooked or pickled garlic sometimes turns blue or jade

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Speaker 2: green turns out. As long as this is not caused

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Speaker 2: by mold, it is perfectly safe to eat, and in

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Speaker 2: some food traditions, such as Chinese lava garlic, it's even

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Speaker 2: an effect that people create on purpose. And we're back

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Speaker 2: today to talk about more food transformations. So I think

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Speaker 2: a major theme we're going to be looking at in

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Speaker 2: this episode is the unexpected either explosion or combustion of

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Speaker 2: food and drink. And if it's okay with y'all, I

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Speaker 2: wanted to start by looking at a series of initially

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Speaker 2: unexplained restaurant fires back around twenty nineteen. Yeah, we put

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Speaker 2: on your fire investigator hats with shower, ok.

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Speaker 1: Done.

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Speaker 2: So here I'm relying on a few news articles to

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Speaker 2: get the facts of the case, a July twelfth, twenty

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Speaker 2: nineteen Wisconsin Public Radio article by Rob Mentzer, a July

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Speaker 2: fifteenth article in The New York Times by Neil Victor,

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Speaker 2: and a July sixteenth article for ABC News by Ela Torres.

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Speaker 2: And so the story goes like this. In twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 2: fire investigators in Wisconsin noticed a recent pattern of what

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Speaker 2: appeared to be spontaneous combustion leading to fires in local restaurants.

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Speaker 2: Primarily it was in places that served sushi. There were

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Speaker 2: fires in two different sushi restaurants in the city of Madison, Wisconsin.

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Speaker 2: And to get a little color on what happened here,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to read from the ABC reporting quote. One

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Speaker 2: blaze broke out at Sumo Steakhouse and Sushi Bar on

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Speaker 2: April fifth, at around two thirty am. Firefighters entered the restaurant,

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Speaker 2: threw a hatch on the roof, and found the kitchen

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Speaker 2: in flames. A sprinkler managed to prevent the fire from

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Speaker 2: further damaging the building, and the restaurant has since reopened.

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Speaker 2: Another fire occurred on May tenth at the Madison restaurant

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Speaker 2: to Kara, just before midnight. Firefighters were able to quickly

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Speaker 2: extinguish the fire, though the damage was extensive to Kara

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Speaker 2: remains closed and that was as of July twenty nineteen. Again,

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Speaker 2: so fortunately no one was injured in these two incidents,

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Speaker 2: but the damage was extensive, totaling more than five hundred

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Speaker 2: and seventy five thousand dollars combined at the two restaurants. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so like serious fires, both of them happening in the

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Speaker 2: middle of the night. That's kind of interesting, Like after

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Speaker 2: the restaurants had closed, fires picked kicking up in the kitchen.

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Speaker 2: So this is not from somebody actively cooking and setting

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Speaker 2: fire to something. But this was not all. These two

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Speaker 2: fires were linked to a pattern of similar restaurant fires

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Speaker 2: across the state of Wisconsin. I think there were five

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Speaker 2: total in Wisconsin, and then more across the rest of

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Speaker 2: the United States, including in Saint Paul, Minnesota, and Ashburn, Virginia,

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Speaker 2: and at least one fire in Canada. So big question

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Speaker 2: what was causing these fires. Authorities got on the case,

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Speaker 2: and these articles I mentioned all include interview material with

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Speaker 2: a particular Wisconsin based fire investigator who I think was

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Speaker 2: the lead investigator on this case, named Kara Nelson. Nelson

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Speaker 2: coordinated with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms to

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Speaker 2: determine the cause of these blazes and ended up tracing

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Speaker 2: them back to a form of what investigators call spontaneous combustion. Now,

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Speaker 2: we could quibble about whether spontaneous combustion is a misleading

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Speaker 2: term or not. I know, sometimes people trying to be

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Speaker 2: scientifically accurate don't like that term because it could suggest

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Speaker 2: that it's like without a cause somehow, you know, and

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Speaker 2: they're they're usually various causes you can identify. In any case,

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Speaker 2: I think it's definitely accurate to say surprise combustion. So

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Speaker 2: a case of some surprise combustion which was occurring in

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Speaker 2: all of these restaurants in the same food material, which

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Speaker 2: was deep fried tempura flakes. Okay, y'all, y'all have feelings

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Speaker 2: about tempora generally or deep fried tempora flakes. You know

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Speaker 2: the crunch they put on the sushi rolls.

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Speaker 3: Well, now I'm a little nervous.

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Speaker 2: There's no I don't think you have anything to be

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Speaker 2: afraid of from eating it. It's it's not an eating problem.

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Speaker 2: It's a storage issue. We'll get in, we'll get to

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Speaker 2: the bottom of it. But uh, but yeah, are you

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Speaker 2: timpoora fans at least.

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Speaker 1: No, No, I don't want fried in my sushi. It's

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Speaker 1: I understand that it's a thing that some people enjoy.

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Speaker 1: I'm there for raw fish.

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Speaker 3: I agree with Lauren, But I like tempora as a

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Speaker 3: separate thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, that's that's where I am. Annie. I'm

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Speaker 2: not so big on the tempora in sushi, but I

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Speaker 2: love like tempora shrimp or tempora vegetables.

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Speaker 1: They're fine, They're often a little soggy for me. If

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Speaker 1: I using using tempora tempora flakes specifically at home, it

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Speaker 1: can be can be nice, like I enjoy a timpora batter,

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Speaker 1: but you have to do it really care. I'm picky

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Speaker 1: about my fried food. If I'm going to invest the

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Speaker 1: caloric undertake of of fried food, I want to be

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Speaker 1: real excited about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay, well I get that. But yeah, I appreciate

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Speaker 2: at least tempora fried things on their own, but so

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Speaker 2: Timpura deep fried tempora flakes are known in Japanese as

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Speaker 2: aga dama or tinkasu, meaning tempora dregs, and as I

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Speaker 2: think I just said, sometimes on menus you will see

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Speaker 2: them described as crunch because it's mainly used to add

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Speaker 2: a crispy textural element to certain sushi rolls. Timpura batter

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Speaker 2: is typically made with some combination of wheat, flour and water,

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Speaker 2: like a lot of batters, but you can have other

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Speaker 2: things in there as well. Sometimes there will be other

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Speaker 2: flowers or starches like corn starch. You might have baking powder, egg,

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Speaker 2: so it's you know, it's nothing all that unusual as

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Speaker 2: far as batter composition goes. Normally, when you're making tempura,

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Speaker 2: you would dip your food in the batter and then

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Speaker 2: deep fry it so that the batter forms a crispy

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Speaker 2: coating on the fried food. But to make timpura crunch,

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Speaker 2: you're just gonna be frying the batter itself. So you

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Speaker 2: make these flakes by ladling a bunch of little drops

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Speaker 2: of batter into the hot oil, and then you scoop

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Speaker 2: them out with the strainer and deposit them into a

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Speaker 2: storage vessel. And here's where the problem comes in. When

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Speaker 2: these fried flakes are stored densely packed in a bowl

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Speaker 2: or a pot, the heat cannot escape very well, and

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Speaker 2: adding on that hot oily batter, when exposed to oxygen,

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Speaker 2: can undergo a self accelerating chemical reaction that gives off

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Speaker 2: even more heat, and if this heat cannot be removed

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Speaker 2: fast enough, it just keeps building up until this fried

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Speaker 2: food ignites, catches on fire, and then you have a

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Speaker 2: kitchen fire. Karen Nelson, the fire investigator, quoted in the

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Speaker 2: New York Times, says, quote, it is no different than

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Speaker 2: the chemical reaction that causes more well known substances to

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Speaker 2: spontaneously combust. It can happen in hay bales, it can

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Speaker 2: happen in mulch piles, and apparently also in timpero flakes.

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Speaker 2: So what does it look like when this happens. Well,

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Speaker 2: the New York Times article includes security camera footage from

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Speaker 2: inside one of these restaurants where the timpero flakes were

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Speaker 2: made earlier in the day, in the afternoon and then

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Speaker 2: left in a colander in the kitchen to cool. And

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Speaker 2: you can see from the time stamps on the video,

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Speaker 2: about six hours after they were first cooked, the flakes

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Speaker 2: start smoking, and then something like ten hours after cooking,

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Speaker 2: they actually catch on fire. And then the fire gets

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Speaker 2: bigger and bigger, and then the walls are covered in flames.

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Speaker 2: And then the part I found really scary is you

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Speaker 2: see the sprinkler system come on and it starts dumping

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Speaker 2: water all over the kitchen, but the fire does not

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Speaker 2: immediately go out. It keeps flaming, kind of sputtering against

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Speaker 2: the spray of water from above. I think the sprinklers

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Speaker 2: can eventually douse the fires, you know, they cool them

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Speaker 2: off and deprive them of oxygen. But for a while

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Speaker 2: it looks like the fire is fighting back.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, No, kitchens are terrifying, terrifying, yeah, for that reason.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So what exactly is this chemical reaction in

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Speaker 2: the tempera batter that's causing it to act this way?

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Speaker 2: Once again, like in the last episode with the aluminum

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Speaker 2: anode in the Lasagna battery, we are looking at the

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Speaker 2: process of oxidation at the molecular level. The fats and

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Speaker 2: oil used in cooking are mainly composed of molecules called triglycerides,

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Speaker 2: which in turn are made of a core lipid molecule

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Speaker 2: called a glycerol bonded with three fatty acids. Triglycerides are

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Speaker 2: found throughout nature. They're one of the main ways that

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Speaker 2: animals and plants store energy for later use. So animals

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Speaker 2: store these as fats in their adipose tissue, plants often

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Speaker 2: store them in seeds or fruits. It's a very very

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Speaker 2: efficient way to store a lot of energy in a

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Speaker 2: small amount of matter, which is the main reason that.

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Speaker 2: Also that fats are very calorically dense as a food,

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Speaker 2: So you know, you're trying to store a lot of

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Speaker 2: food in a small space and a small amount of weight.

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Speaker 2: You want to have as many fats as you can. Also,

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Speaker 2: that's delicious, right, and they taste good, yeah, for evolutionary

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Speaker 2: reasons because their energy dense exactly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So when oils made of triglycerides are exposed to oxygen,

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Speaker 2: such as in the atmosphere, in the air around us,

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Speaker 2: they undergo a chemical reaction called autooxidation. The oxidation reaction

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Speaker 2: with the air the oxidation of triglycerides can sometimes result

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Speaker 2: and it can do different things. It can sometimes result

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Speaker 2: in polymerization, which is when small isolated lipid molecules called

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Speaker 2: monomers bind together to form long chain molecules called polymers.

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Speaker 2: And this is not the main process at play in

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Speaker 2: Timpura flate combustion. But I did want to stick on

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Speaker 2: this for a second because it relates to our conversation

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Speaker 2: in the last episode about food reacting in interesting chemical

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Speaker 2: ways with cooking pans. Polymerization is what happens when you

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Speaker 2: season a cast iron or a carbon steel pan to

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Speaker 2: create a rustproof and non stick surface. So you rub

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Speaker 2: oil all over the iron and then you apply high

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Speaker 2: heat to it. This heat helps oxidize the oil really fast,

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Speaker 2: and it makes the oil molecules bond together into a

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Speaker 2: big sheet of plastic y polymers coating the metal. And

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Speaker 2: that does multiple things. It both protects the metal from

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Speaker 2: exposure to oxygen, and it also makes the cooking surface

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Speaker 2: more non stick. Are y'all very protective of cast iron

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Speaker 2: and carbon steel cookware? I know, I know some people

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Speaker 2: in their kitchens are like, you know, I don't let

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Speaker 2: anybody use my cast iron pan. I'm afraid they might

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Speaker 2: wash it the wrong way and get my seasoning off.

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Speaker 2: Some people are very protective. My mom's like that.

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Speaker 3: One time, I'm not great at it. And once before

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Speaker 3: I knew more about cast iron pans, I was trying

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Speaker 3: to help out a friend of mine who had made dinner,

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Speaker 3: and I washed her cast iron pan, and she looked

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Speaker 3: at me and was like, oh, my seasoning. You were

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Speaker 3: like that because you are supposed to wash them. But

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Speaker 3: I had really gone in for the scrub.

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Speaker 2: Like, oh, dish detergent and steel wool.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I still feel a lot of guilt about

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Speaker 3: that whole thing.

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Speaker 2: If you really go hard, you can you can do

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Speaker 2: a lot of damage. But also I think people are

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Speaker 2: a little overly precious about that. Like, you know, a

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Speaker 2: quick wash with a little bit of soap, you usually

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Speaker 2: still retain most of the seasoning. It's not going to

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Speaker 2: be too bad. But yeah, if you really scrub at

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Speaker 2: it and use a lot of detergent in there, it'll

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Speaker 2: strip it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, even if you use a little bit

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Speaker 1: of steel while on there, unless you know, if you're

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Speaker 1: just using it to lightly scrape the surface not dig

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Speaker 1: into it. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, you know.

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Speaker 1: I but that being said, I do washvine with hot water,

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Speaker 1: maybe a little bit of salt on a clean sponge.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I do that.

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Speaker 1: Then I just yeah, I just rub, I'll oil into it,

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Speaker 1: pop it in the toaster oven for like half an

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Speaker 1: hour at two hundred go nice.

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Speaker 2: I wish I could say I re season every time

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Speaker 2: I use it. I know, they say, ideally that's what

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Speaker 2: you do. Instead, I tend to have more like seasoning

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Speaker 2: days when I have a day when I can set

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Speaker 2: aside a few minutes to get out all of my

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Speaker 2: all of my carbon steel and cast iron cookware, rub

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Speaker 2: it all with oil, put it all in the same ovens.

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Speaker 2: So that kind of saves energy if you do it

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Speaker 2: all in the oven at the same time. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I try to take care of it, but I could

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Speaker 2: take better care, I guess.

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Speaker 1: I will say that the cast iron that I use

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Speaker 1: in my home belongs to my roommate, and I'm more

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Speaker 1: precious perhaps with her cast iron cookware than I would

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Speaker 1: be with my own.

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Speaker 2: So in addition to this where we're like baking oil

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Speaker 2: onto our pans, you know, intentionally using very high heat

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Speaker 2: to polymerize it, there are some special types of oil

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Speaker 2: known as drying oils. Like this includes linseed oil or

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Speaker 2: walnut oil, things like that that when exposed to oxygen,

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Speaker 2: especially in the presence of heat, but when exposed to oxygen,

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Speaker 2: naturally undergo oxidation and polymerization as they dry or people

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Speaker 2: sometimes call this curing maybe drying. Normally, when we think

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Speaker 2: about liquids drying, we're imagining water based liquids or maybe

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Speaker 2: alcohol or something which dry by evaporating into the air.

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Speaker 2: Of course, oils don't evaporate. When these oils dry, we're

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Speaker 2: typically talking about them oxidizing in reaction with the air

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Speaker 2: and then forming a hard polymer. So drying oils are

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Speaker 2: often used as the base lipid and substances like paint.

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Speaker 1: This is also why you can rub some walnut oil

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Speaker 1: into like a hardwood floor if it's getting a little

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Speaker 1: patchy in places, and it will help help reseal the floor.

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Speaker 2: Yes, exactly totally. So these they have the sealent quality

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Speaker 2: because they form the polymerization surface. But a different oxidation

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Speaker 2: process is more important to consider in the case of

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Speaker 2: food and also in the case of fires, and that

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Speaker 2: is decomposition. This is when oils exposed to oxygen start

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Speaker 2: to break down at the molecular level. So triglycerides react

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Speaker 2: with oxygen to form these unstable molecules called hydroperoxides, and

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Speaker 2: then the hydroperoxides, because they are unstable, break apart into smaller,

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Speaker 2: volatile molecules of many different kinds. You get short chain

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Speaker 2: fatty acids, aldehydes, esters ketone, and as a side note,

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Speaker 2: a lot of these breakdown products smell and taste bad.

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Speaker 2: The oxidation of cooking oil is the main cause of

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Speaker 2: oil ransidity. So when oil is old or it's been

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Speaker 2: sitting too long in the fryer and starts to taste bad,

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Speaker 2: that usually means that a lot of these oxidation by

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Speaker 2: products are mixed in with the oil and they produce

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Speaker 2: these unpleasant, sometimes bitter or metallic flavors and aromas. But then,

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Speaker 2: on the other hand, I do believe that some of

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Speaker 2: the pleasant aromas and flavors we associate with fried foods

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Speaker 2: also come from some oil oxidation and breakdown products like

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Speaker 2: that kind of you know, festival food, fried food smell.

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Speaker 2: I think that that's some of that too. But if

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Speaker 2: you get too much oxidation, I think that is when

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Speaker 2: things start to be overwhelmingly unpleasant. Ever, you know, you

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Speaker 2: smell the oil in the bottle and something just smells

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Speaker 2: like metal or something m.

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Speaker 1: Mmm, or if you come home from a dive bar

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Speaker 1: and your shirt is just you're like, oh, this is

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Speaker 1: bad fryar smell.

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Speaker 2: Oh why.

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Speaker 1: I ate those fries?

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Speaker 2: Oh no, yeah, But okay, So anybody with some experience

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Speaker 2: in the kitchen is going to be familiar with these

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Speaker 2: cases of oil oxidation, like oil ransidity. If the oil

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Speaker 2: is old enough it's gonna smell weird, taste bad or

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Speaker 2: seasoning cast iron pans and stuff. But how does oil

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Speaker 2: reacting with oxygen actually result in a fire. So, the

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Speaker 2: autooxidation of unsaturated fats is what's called an exothermic reaction,

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Speaker 2: meaning the chemical reaction releases heat. It takes heat to

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Speaker 2: get going, but it also releases more heat when it happens.

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Speaker 2: So if a bunch of oily material like oily fried

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Speaker 2: bits of batter or oily rags another common example here,

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Speaker 2: if a bunch of that material is kept bunched up

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Speaker 2: tightly in space somewhere, the heat from that exothermic reaction

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Speaker 2: gets the oil around it hotter, which makes the oxidation

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Speaker 2: happen faster in the surrounding oil, and then it releases

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Speaker 2: more heat, and the heat can't escape because it's all

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Speaker 2: packed together in a bowl, and you get runaway thermal

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Speaker 2: escalation until it starts smoking and then catches fire. So,

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Speaker 2: coming back to the sushi restaurant fires, this article by

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Speaker 2: Wisconsin Public Radio describes some tests that fire investigators use

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Speaker 2: to confirm their theory about the spontaneous combustion of timpura batter.

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Speaker 2: One of the restaurants agreed to make a test batch,

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Speaker 2: and according to Karen Nelson, the investigator from Madison, when

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Speaker 2: they measured the temperature in the middle of the bowl

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Speaker 2: of fried batter, it had reached two hundred and seventy

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Speaker 2: seven degrees. The article does not say fahrenheit or celsius.

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Speaker 2: I think this has to be fahrenheit because oily batter

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Speaker 2: at two hundred and seventy seven celsius would probably already

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Speaker 2: be on fire.

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Speaker 3: Yes, no, no, yeah, yeah, that sounds like a very

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Speaker 3: bad situation, but.

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Speaker 2: That's still I mean, even fahrenheit, that's hot inside. That's

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00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,040
Speaker 2: start starting with a lot of heat packed in there.

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Speaker 2: And then if you just leave it sitting, you would

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00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,960
Speaker 2: expect and naturally, when you leave hot things sitting, they

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00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,880
Speaker 2: cool off over time. But this one, the heat starts

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00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,679
Speaker 2: triggering this rapid oxidation reaction with the air and it

341
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,440
Speaker 2: gets hotter instead of cooling off, and it just gets

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00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,760
Speaker 2: hotter and hotter until you have a fire. In Karen

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Speaker 2: Nelson's words quote, as they deep fried in batches, they

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Speaker 2: put it into a colander or mesh strainer in batches,

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00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,600
Speaker 2: so they're basically adding heat every time. So the heat

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00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 2: builds and builds once it hits ignition temperature, that's when

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00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,360
Speaker 2: a fire occurs. Now, one question I had about this

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Speaker 2: is why is it that oily rags or fried batter

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Speaker 2: can spontaneously or again, spontaneous combustion is used throughout this reporting,

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Speaker 2: so maybe to put aside spontaneous, why is it that

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Speaker 2: oily rags or fried batter can go under surprise combustion

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00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,440
Speaker 2: but a massive oil on its own does not, Because

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00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,000
Speaker 2: it is the oil that's oxidizing reacting with the air.

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00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,520
Speaker 2: And I believe the answer here is mainly about surface area.

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00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:13,320
Speaker 2: Oily rags or oily craggy bits of fried food expose

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Speaker 2: more oil to the air all at once than you

357
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,919
Speaker 2: would be able to with just a volume of oil

358
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,119
Speaker 2: stored on its own. When oil is in a container,

359
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,280
Speaker 2: most of the oil is submerged and only the top

360
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 2: surface is exposed to the air. And then on top

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00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:33,080
Speaker 2: of that, oily rags or timpuraflakes also accelerate the reaction

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00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,000
Speaker 2: because the air pockets inside these masses of rags or

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00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 2: food provide insulation and they keep the heat trapped inside

364
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Speaker 2: for longer.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if you also have in there the factor

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Speaker 1: of some kind of combustive material that gets the whole

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00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,199
Speaker 1: process kind of started once it gets hot enough, like

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00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,480
Speaker 1: you've got the flour or you've got cotton in the

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00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,680
Speaker 1: case of rags. I mean there have been without oils

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00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,159
Speaker 1: particularly present, there have been all kinds of fires and

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00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 1: in flower facts over the course of history.

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00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 2: So yes, yeah, grain fires can be a big thing,

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00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 2: especially when the grain is I know, the big thing.

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00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,280
Speaker 2: There is a lot of powdered foods can cause fires

375
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 2: when they're dispersed in the air. So like this can

376
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,399
Speaker 2: happen with flour or any kind of grain. It can

377
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,639
Speaker 2: happen with powdered milk if you have you know, dairies

378
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,680
Speaker 2: and creameries, they can have powdered milk fires. So yeah,

379
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,440
Speaker 2: that is certainly a risk too. So it probably does

380
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,919
Speaker 2: not hurt that the the thing that's being fried also

381
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 2: is a pretty ready fuel source. You know, it's not

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00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,920
Speaker 2: like something that won't burn being coated in oil.

383
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,920
Speaker 1: We should be making flakes of meat for sushi.

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Speaker 2: But so okay, let's say that maybe I'm a person

385
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 2: who loves tempera crunch, and I want to make temper

386
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 2: a crunch, but I don't want to start a fire

387
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,359
Speaker 2: in my kitchen. What are some ways around this? One is,

388
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,359
Speaker 2: if you're making fried tempera batter or any similar fried substance,

389
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,840
Speaker 2: don't store it in a densely packed way right after

390
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,200
Speaker 2: you cook it. So don't dump it into a bowl

391
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 2: or anywhere that it is densely piled up on itself.

392
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 2: Spread it out on a baking sheet or some of

393
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 2: their surface where it can cool more efficiently. Another piece

394
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,719
Speaker 2: of advice they give is don't make a batch of

395
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 2: fried batter and then like at the end of the

396
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,159
Speaker 2: night and then leave it unattended overnight. That is what

397
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:25,439
Speaker 2: happened in some of these cases. These articles recommend that

398
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 2: restaurant owners make fried tempura batter in the morning so

399
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 2: that you will be around in the kitchen to observe

400
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,719
Speaker 2: it during the danger window, which these articles suggest is

401
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 2: something like maybe ten to twelve hours after cooking.

402
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 1: So well for a danger window, Yeah, yeah.

403
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 2: I do want to clarify that it's nothing about the

404
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:48,959
Speaker 2: tempura specifically that is the cause here. It seems that

405
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 2: this could be any piece of you know, fried something

406
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 2: that you're frying, a bunch of little pieces of something

407
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,479
Speaker 2: and then pouring it in a bowl and storing it

408
00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 2: like that. I think the same thing could happen there.

409
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 2: So if you're getting crispy bits off of your I

410
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,879
Speaker 2: don't know, if you're working in a fish fry shop

411
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,440
Speaker 2: or something like that, you could probably get a similar

412
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 2: thing if you have a bunch of little bits of

413
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,719
Speaker 2: fried something and you're storing them in a way that

414
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 2: does not evaporate, that does not allow heat to radiate

415
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 2: away efficiently.

416
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, And generally speaking, by spreading things out on for example,

417
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 1: a baking pan or something, you're gonna get them to

418
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,120
Speaker 1: well I mean, okay, So the point is that your

419
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 1: point in not catching your kitchen on fire is that

420
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 1: you're going to get it to cool more efficiently. My

421
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,959
Speaker 1: point hinges on the same thing, and it's going to

422
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 1: stay crisper longer, yeah, because it's not going to just

423
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:38,640
Speaker 1: kind of be sitting in oil.

424
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 2: Right. So Yeah, Generally, when you want to keep things crispy,

425
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 2: you don't pile them on top of each other because

426
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 2: that leads to sogginess. That is my experience as a

427
00:23:47,240 --> 00:24:00,239
Speaker 2: cook as well. Yeah, all right, Well that is all

428
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 2: I have on the surprise combustion of tempura batter. What

429
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 2: do you all have next? In terms of food transformations.

430
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 1: Uh, okay, can we can we talk about fermentation?

431
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 2: Absolutely?

432
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, Oh, fermentation is my favorite. Anyone who is

433
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: here from Saverre knows exactly how much I like going

434
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 1: on about bacteria and yeast poop because, like I said

435
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 1: in the last episode that we were here for, they

436
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,479
Speaker 1: really do make the world go round. Most of my

437
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 1: favorite foods have some form of fermentation involved. And also

438
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 1: microbes are really cool. And for my first example of this,

439
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: I want to talk about Boston's Great Molasses Flood of

440
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: nineteen nineteen. But okay, let me let me paint the

441
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 1: whole story for you. And also note at the top

442
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 1: here see my Dearly Departed podcast American Shadows for a

443
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: dramatic reading of this story with like a nice SOUNDBD

444
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: in it, and like the whole thing. I got to

445
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 1: really use my like schweaty ball voice in that one.

446
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,360
Speaker 1: So it was a fun. It was a fun thing

447
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 1: to do. But okay, basically, it's nineteen nineteen and there

448
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 1: was this two million gallon tank for molasses hanging out

449
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,120
Speaker 1: in Boston in the North End. That's about seventy five

450
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: million liters for our metric friends. This thing stood fifty

451
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 1: feet tall and ninety feet across. That's like fifteen by

452
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: twenty seven meters, and okay, molasses if you're unaware of

453
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: what molasses is, it's this like thick, sticky, cooked down

454
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 1: type of sugar syrup. It was invented as a byproduct

455
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 1: of industrial sugar refining, in which you convince a liquid

456
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 1: sugary juice from sugarcane or sugar beets to crystallize into

457
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: pure white sugar using some heat and some seed crystals.

458
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: What you're left with is this sugary syrup that you

459
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 1: can keep cooking and crystallizing as much sugar as possible

460
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 1: out of, and it will darken in color and develop

461
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 1: all kinds of like rich bitter flavors from caramelization, and

462
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: that is molasses.

463
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 2: Can I add a misconception I used to have, which

464
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 2: is I used to think that brown sugar and white

465
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: sugar worked like brown rice and white rice, that like, oh,

466
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 2: white sugar was just further refined brown sugar. But that's

467
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 2: not true from what I understand, correct that brown sugar

468
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 2: is actually crystallized sugar that has had some amount of

469
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,640
Speaker 2: molasses mixed in, and the presence of molasses is why

470
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 2: it has that more complex flavor than white sugar. It's

471
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 2: a little you know, it tastes a little bit more caramelized.

472
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 2: There's something more complex to it.

473
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

474
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and light brown sugar has less molasses than dark

475
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 1: brown sugar, and that's that also has to do with

476
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: the moisture level of those two products. But yeah, so

477
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 1: molasses is tasty on its own or added to baked

478
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: goods or what have you. But it's also great for

479
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: fermenting into like a kind of sugar wine that you

480
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 1: can then just still into alcohol, either for drinking like

481
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: rum or for absolutely not drinking, like industrial grade ethanol that,

482
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: for example, went into munition production during World War One.

483
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 2: So you could say molasses then could be thought of

484
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 2: as an industrial product, not just a food product.

485
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: It is absolutely an industrial product. You do not get

486
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 1: molasses without the industrial production of white sugar. So yeah,

487
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: you can kind of mock it up in your own house,

488
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: but that's a different Go see your episode about Golden

489
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: Truckle for that one. So, okay, super brief rundown on fermentation.

490
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 1: Fermentation is what happens. And I don't know how often

491
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 1: y'all go over that on this show, but I love

492
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: doing the spiel, So okay. So fermentation is what happens

493
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: when microscopic fungi, yeasts in particular eat sugar and poop

494
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: carbon dioxide and alcohol and flavor. And this is why

495
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: yeast bread rises in the oven and also has that

496
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: particular scent it like a like a very slightly like warm,

497
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 1: almost boozy scent to it. It's why there are bubbles

498
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 1: and alcohol in beer. Usually you can also get them

499
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: in there in a few other ways, but that's another

500
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: that's another topic. Sometimes the carbon dioxide is a waste

501
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: product and you let it release, like for example, if

502
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: you're making a still wine. But with these bases in place.

503
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 3: Uh.

504
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: Back back to Boston. So Purity Distilling Company in Boston

505
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: made ethanol for the Great War Effort, also a little

506
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: bit of run, but mostly mostly ethanol. And so they

507
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: had this steel tank at Boston Harbor at North End,

508
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,479
Speaker 1: just just off Commercial to receive shipments of molasses from

509
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: the Caribbean. Like every couple of days. They had these

510
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: big hoses. The ships would come in, they'd fill in

511
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: new molasses at the top of the tank. They had

512
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: valves at the bottom so you could pour it out

513
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: and then transport it by train over to the factory.

514
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 2: A lot of molasses changing hands.

515
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: A lot of molasses coming in and going out. And

516
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: this tank was like a known entity in that part

517
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: of town that only built it in like nineteen fifteen.

518
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: And it leaked in some places, like kids would come

519
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 1: filch some that had just kind of spilled out onto

520
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: the ground. Totally sanitary. But you know, the tank was big,

521
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: and it made the whole street smell like sweet and heavy,

522
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: especially in the heat of summer. And the tank groaned

523
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: and it was getting louder. So molasses is so good

524
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: at fermenting that it was just doing that in the tank.

525
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: Like the yeasts that make fermentation happen are living everywhere

526
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: all around us. They are in the air. There is

527
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: a reason that humans invented alcohol a couple thousand years

528
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: before we invented the wheel, and that is that alcohol

529
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: happens spontaneously or by surprise if you just leave sugary

530
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: stuff out.

531
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 2: I think I was just reading recently speculation that you know,

532
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 2: while we think of alcohol as a drinking product now,

533
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 2: it is thought just as likely that early alcohol products

534
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 2: may have been food products, like a kind of gruel

535
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 2: left out deferment that would become a kind of alcoholic gruel.

536
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: I mean, at a certain point, you're you're letting you're

537
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: letting microbes do the work. They didn't know it at

538
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:42,959
Speaker 1: that point, but you're letting microbes do the work of

539
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: breaking down your food so that some of the nutrients

540
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: are more accessible to your body when you consume them.

541
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 2: So, but people they figured out, they liked it, and

542
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,479
Speaker 2: they learned how to do it on purpose.

543
00:30:55,680 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, anyway. So so one of the workers who

544
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: was attending to this tank, by the name of Isaac Gonzalez,

545
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: he had nightmares about this tank. He was venting the gas.

546
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: Every day. He would sneak over in the middle of

547
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: the night and siphon molasses into the harbor. He told

548
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: his bosses about the vibrations and the creeks and the

549
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: groans he showed. He showed them flakes of steel that

550
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: were coming off of the inside of the tank. He

551
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: told them that the leaks were springing up bigger and

552
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: more often. Like he wound up quitting. He was so

553
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: worried about it. He was like, I would rather go

554
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: to war than be part of whatever this mess is

555
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: about to be.

556
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 2: And to be clear, you said, he was siphoning parts

557
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 2: of it off, so like on his own initiative, out

558
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 2: of safety concerns, he was dumping product.

559
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: Dumping product and just hoping that it wasn't that it

560
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: was enough to relieve the pressure and not so much

561
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: that he would get caught and fired.

562
00:31:58,520 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 2: Wow.

563
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: Until he quit, he was like, screw you guys, I'm

564
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: going to war. And his bosses ignored him. They did

565
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: have bigger things on their minds, like the war did

566
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: end in late nineteen eighteen, which meant that they needed

567
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: to pivot to making drinkable alcohol. But then the Prohibition

568
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: Amendment was ratified just a few months later in early

569
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: nineteen nineteen, which meant that they had a clock running

570
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: down to January of nineteen twenty, after which they could

571
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 1: not legally produce alcohol anymore. And faced with this, they

572
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: decided to just go ham on production up until they

573
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: had to stop, so they ordered more molasses. They filled

574
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: up the tank and it exploded like there was a roar.

575
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: I've heard it described like a train mounted with machine guns.

576
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: The earth shook, rivets and other shrapnel from the tank

577
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: sliced through nearby train cars. It was twenty six million

578
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: pounds of molasses. It like ripped a nearby firehouse off

579
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: of its foundation, trapping the firemen inside for days. It

580
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: crushed freight cars. It wasn't moving all that fast after

581
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: the initial rush, but it was like a roving tar pit,

582
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: you know. And people died, Like twenty one people passed

583
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: in the immediate aftermath, and I think more passed later

584
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: from resulting injuries. And the company, the company was like, oh,

585
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: maybe Italian terrorists blew it up. We don't know, no

586
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: way of knowing.

587
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 2: But they had been told that this tank was not

588
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 2: up to code.

589
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah, like a lot, like a bunch

590
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: of times.

591
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

592
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: The survivors wound up launching a class action lawsuit against them.

593
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: Isaac Gonzalez testified the survivors won. The whole thing led

594
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: to engineering safety reform laws. It turns out that the

595
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: construction had been a rush job and like not the

596
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,040
Speaker 1: best possible design, as the company was just racing to

597
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: prepare for that war contract in nineteen fifteen, so it

598
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: has a better ending, questions, aren't surprised?

599
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, a good turn after the tragedy. That yes,

600
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 2: led to some safety reforms. But so we think that

601
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 2: we know that there were problems with the safety of

602
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 2: the tank as constructed, and then the question would also

603
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 2: be was fermentation contributing to the danger posed by this tank?

604
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I would strongly suspect yes, because it's

605
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 1: just going to build the pressure. I mean that the

606
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: pressure of that much molasses is already going to be

607
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: pretty intense. But once you add build up of carbon

608
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: dioxide and other gases, than sure.

609
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 2: We know lots of other examples of where food products

610
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 2: under the right or I guess the wrong conditions can

611
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 2: and undergo fermentation that causes them to build up pressure

612
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 2: when they're inside some kind of closed container, rupture it

613
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 2: and cause an explosion.

614
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,919
Speaker 3: Yes, And so this is where I want to talk

615
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:18,720
Speaker 3: about exploding watermelon, which I know might be a technicality

616
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 3: when it comes to our theme, but I feel like

617
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 3: the rind is sort of a storage container.

618
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,720
Speaker 2: Sure, it's a nature storage container. It is nature's steel

619
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 2: pan with the Yeah, so we're getting there. Yeah, this

620
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 2: is fine. I rule it in bounds.

621
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 3: Thank you, Joe, appreciate it. Okay, So back in twenty

622
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 3: twenty three, there were these reports circulating with really menacing

623
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 3: headlines about exploding watermelons. Essentially, the news stories went as follows,

624
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 3: leave your watermelon on your counter at your own perrel.

625
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 3: It could explode at any moment. And we were talking

626
00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 3: about this before, Joe, and you actually have some experience.

627
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 2: Weirdly enough, just like with the the lasagna tray I had. Yeah,

628
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 2: I've had this happen, not to me personally, but to

629
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 2: two different members of my extended family. So my mother

630
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 2: in law and my sister in law both I think

631
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 2: this was in twenty twenty three, both had watermelons explode

632
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 2: on them in different ways. So, uh, The story from

633
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 2: my wife's parents' house was that I think in the

634
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 2: early morning, in the pre dawn hours, they had had

635
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 2: a watermelon sitting in the kitchen and they suddenly just

636
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 2: heard a pop, you know, some kind of pop sound.

637
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 2: They went down to the kitchen to investigate, and my

638
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 2: mother in law found the guts of a watermelon everywhere.

639
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 2: It's all over the ceiling and the walls, like massive

640
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 2: explosion of a watermelon. I think it was a big

641
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 2: clean up job. And yeah, nothing had happened to it.

642
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 2: It was just a watermelon that I don't know exactly

643
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 2: where it came from. I think just store as far

644
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 2: as I know, and yeah, it's been sitting on the

645
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 2: counter and exploded and went everywhere. But the other story

646
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:12,280
Speaker 2: was my wife's sister, also, I think, within like weeks

647
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 2: of that original story happening, also had a watermelon at

648
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 2: her house and it didn't do anything on its own,

649
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 2: but when she cut into it with a knife, she

650
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 2: like stuck a knife into the watermelon, and as soon

651
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 2: as she pierced it, it went like pump and then

652
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 2: a huge crack split the rind across it transverse to

653
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 2: where the knife cut was. So yeah, and she said

654
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 2: it felt like it had been under pressure, and when

655
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 2: she released the pressure, it cracked and split apart. Which

656
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 2: is a little bit scary in that case because I

657
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 2: don't know if this would really happen, but I would

658
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 2: be scared of like piercing something with a knife that

659
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:51,959
Speaker 2: is under pressure. I wonder, is that gonna like blow

660
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 2: the knife back at you. It didn't happen in this case,

661
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 2: so I don't know if that's really a concern, But

662
00:37:56,239 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 2: so yeah, this apparently happens often enough that like two

663
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 2: totally different, unrelated cases both happened to my wife's family

664
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 2: within a few weeks of each other. A few years ago.

665
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 2: I do wonder kind of about the about how close

666
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 2: in time and space these two different exploding watermelon stories were, Like,

667
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: is that a result of I don't know, watermelons coming

668
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 2: from the same farm or field being more likely to explode.

669
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 2: I have questions about that, but maybe maybe you can

670
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 2: help answer them.

671
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:31,439
Speaker 3: Yes, I think we can. Also, you have provided two

672
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 3: of the most common examples of how this happens. Okay,

673
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 3: of just a watermelon on your calendar exploding, or when

674
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 3: you go to cut it and it explodes. All right,

675
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 3: But what is going on here? It is our friend

676
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 3: fermentation largely behind this whole watermelon rind exploding thing, and

677
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 3: it is spurred on by high summer temperatures and or

678
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 3: the age of the fruit. So the older the watermelon,

679
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 3: the more like it is to explode. But the heat

680
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 3: kick starts a process similar to that in alcohols like beer,

681
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 3: where the sugar converts into alcohol, releasing CO two in

682
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,280
Speaker 3: the process, which builds up inside the fruit.

683
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: And what's happening here is that if the skin of

684
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:24,320
Speaker 1: the fruit is even slightly imperfect during the growing season,

685
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: microbes can get in and start eating the flesh of

686
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: the watermelon before you have a chance to That's what

687
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: we mean when we say that food is spoiling. And

688
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: this can happen due to damage to the rind or

689
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:42,240
Speaker 1: due to a normal but unfortunate flub in growth where

690
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: the fruit starts growing from a pollinated flour and eventually

691
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 1: the like non fruit parts of the flour will fall

692
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: off and there's like a little hole there that's supposed

693
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:56,399
Speaker 1: to close up, and if it doesn't at first, then

694
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: fungi like yeasts and other stuff like bacteria can get

695
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: in and grow with the watermelon, feeding on that developing

696
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: fruit and putting off gases like carbon dioxide. And then

697
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 1: if that initial hole or wound closes up, the gases

698
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: will build up inside the now sealed melon.

699
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 3: Yes, and once the pressure reaches a certain point, the

700
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 3: watermelon can explode, either left on the counter or when

701
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 3: someone goes to cut into it. This is kind of

702
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 3: the fruit version of shaking a can of soda and

703
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 3: having it explode on you. From what I've read, it

704
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 3: can be pretty dramatic, a loud bang fruit everywhere, like

705
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 3: you were talking about, Joe I. When we were discussing

706
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 3: doing this topic, I delved back into some old emails

707
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 3: for Saver from listeners, and I found a lot of

708
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 3: stuff about exploding things, actually, but specifically in this case,

709
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 3: I've found some about exploding fruit. So a Savor listener

710
00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 3: wrote into us about a watermelon exploding in her it

711
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 3: was like their shared She had a roommate and it

712
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 3: was their shared kitchen in twenty eighteen. She described a

713
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 3: loud pop and the sound of gushing liquid coming from

714
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 3: the kitchen. She also left it to her roommate because

715
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 3: it was her roommate's watermelon to clean up. And it

716
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 3: was a month old watermelon.

717
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,479
Speaker 1: Ooh.

718
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,240
Speaker 3: And then in twenty seventeen, a listener wrote in about

719
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 3: a quote pineapple grenade that exploded, leaving behind a strong

720
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,399
Speaker 3: smell of alcohol from fermentation, and.

721
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: That was canned pineapple, like home canned pineapple.

722
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,800
Speaker 3: I believe I think it was a whole pineapple.

723
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 1: Oh really, Oh god.

724
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 3: I thought somebody else wrote in about a can of pineapple.

725
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,399
Speaker 3: Oh okay, cabinet too.

726
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: Many exploding pineapple products. Sorry I got confused.

727
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:54,320
Speaker 3: You got to watch out as what I've learned. Okay,

728
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,800
Speaker 3: But in these twenty twenty three watermelon incidents, which is

729
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 3: when news was going wild reporting this, a bacteria may

730
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 3: have also been involved. This bacteria interacted with the yeast

731
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 3: and sugar inside the watermelon, and perhaps the exterior heat

732
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 3: as well to speed up the fermentation. In this case,

733
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 3: toxic pathogens can be introduced, which is part of the

734
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 3: issue here, other than the whole exploding thing, because fermentation

735
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 3: isn't bad, but in this instance, harmful bacteria can be introduced. Okay.

736
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 3: Sometimes this whole thing can be combated by a crack

737
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 3: in the rind, which does allow the pressure to release slowly.

738
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 3: If you see a foaming watermelon, avoid it or dispose

739
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 3: of it.

740
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,720
Speaker 1: No rabid watermelons in this house. That's a motto.

741
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, boaming watermelon. I think I'm going to eat that one.

742
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 3: Looks it looks strikingly more menacing than I thought it

743
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 3: would when I read about it, and I was like, no, actually,

744
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 3: I probably would stay away from that.

745
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we established last time. You're a food daredevil.

746
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 2: You have you would not touch the foaming watermelon. Okay.

747
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,959
Speaker 1: Also, I strongly believe that would not smell appetizing.

748
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 3: Yes, I listeners, go look up the images. It's quite something.

749
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 3: It really really is. Cold temperatures slow the process. So

750
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 3: storing a watermelon in the refrigerator can help delay but

751
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:31,240
Speaker 3: not totally prevent explosion. Experts recommend cleaning the rind before slicing,

752
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,280
Speaker 3: which I think is just good practice.

753
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 2: Yep.

754
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,919
Speaker 3: One of my favorite quotes reading about this was from

755
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 3: the Daily Meal quote the only real way to deal

756
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 3: with this issue is to monitor your watermelons closely.

757
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 2: Or I'm getting a security camera exactly.

758
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 3: I love this. Or here's a quote from Food Network.

759
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,720
Speaker 3: This is the summer that sweet red fruit is taking

760
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 3: on a sinister tinge. We're being warned that the backyard

761
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,479
Speaker 3: barbecue staple may start foaming in a threatening sort of way.

762
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:12,399
Speaker 3: I'm telling you, they really really ran with this whole thing.

763
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:19,240
Speaker 3: They loved it. But it does. Like I said, the

764
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 3: bomb does look threatening, and it leaks out of any

765
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 3: any cracks of the rind, so you can get strange patterns.

766
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 2: So I have questions in several ways. One, I'm just

767
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm no expert in fruits, but I'm just

768
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 2: surprised that the rind of a food like a watermelon

769
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 2: would be air tight enough that it would fully be

770
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 2: able to contain expanding gases from fermentation. I would just

771
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 2: think that I don't know that the gases would be

772
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 2: able to permeate it and escape somehow. It's just surprising

773
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 2: to me that it's that tight. It actually functions like

774
00:44:58,120 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 2: a you know, balloon basically.

775
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean it's they're meant to be waterproof

776
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,879
Speaker 1: from from the outside, like most a lot of I'm

777
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: not an expert on watermelon rinds in particular, a lot

778
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: of fruit skin will allow moisture to leave but not enter.

779
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: Think about an orange, for example, and how they might

780
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: like dry out if you have it sitting in the

781
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 1: fridge without some kind of protective covering. But but yeah,

782
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 1: melons there, they're a whole thing.

783
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 3: You can also have. Do you know what a vodka

784
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 3: melon is?

785
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 2: Yes, see I have, I have those kind of friends. Yeah, yes, me.

786
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 1: So you know how a melon can hold liquid that

787
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: you put inside of it?

788
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. You know, yeah, I should I should

789
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 2: have used my vodka melon memories to better analyze this.

790
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 2: It's just it's counterintuitive. It seems surprising, But I mean,

791
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 2: that's also cool that the rind can function that way. So,

792
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 2: but my question would be, like, I'm surprised kind of

793
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 2: in the same way that I'm surprised there were so

794
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 2: many sushi restaurant fires so close in time and space

795
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 2: to each other, I wonder if this is just like

796
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 2: a you know, in that case, I wondered if it

797
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 2: was just kind of a salience bias thing that you know,

798
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 2: this actually happens more often, but people don't group together

799
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 2: the incidents or analyze them in this way, and so

800
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 2: maybe that led to the impression that there was kind

801
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,359
Speaker 2: of a clustering of it. In this case, I would

802
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 2: really be wondering, like, how common are exploding watermelons that

803
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 2: you would get, You know, people who live in the

804
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 2: same city having exploding watermelons a few weeks apart from

805
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 2: each other, when they'd never dealt with this phenomenon ever

806
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 2: in their lives before or since.

807
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 1: I would assume it has something to do with the

808
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:53,760
Speaker 1: particular growing season and growing conditions. You can get different

809
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 1: populations of microorganisms in the air and in the soil.

810
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 1: So maybe if the melons were coming from a particular farm,

811
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 1: maybe if there were just the right conditions for the

812
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 1: rind of that melon to grow along with the expanding gas,

813
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 1: because melons can grow quite quite quickly, and so maybe

814
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 1: if they were just just growing right along with the

815
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 1: interior biome it just leads to just the right conditions

816
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,240
Speaker 1: to let it happen more often.

817
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,240
Speaker 3: Yes, And a lot of the news at the time,

818
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 3: accurately or not, was reporting that the heat it was

819
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:34,240
Speaker 3: like a particularly hot growing season and partly the hot summer,

820
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 3: and that was contributing to it in twenty twenty three.

821
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 1: So that can that can affect the growth of the

822
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: melons and also the growth of the bacteria and easts.

823
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 2: So yeah, as we said in the last episode, in chemistry,

824
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,479
Speaker 2: most things happen faster when it's hot.

825
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 3: Yes, all of that being said, though this isn't really

826
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 3: a common thing, I think it grabs a lot of

827
00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 3: people's attention. And that that being said, historically, there is

828
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 3: a time in recent history that there was a space

829
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 3: of watermelons exploding. In twenty eleven, there were a lot

830
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 3: of reports of watermelons exploding in China after the use

831
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 3: of chemical growth accelerators were applied on some farms.

832
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: This one is partially a case of like over enthusiastic

833
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: media reporting these watermelons were splitting open from like a

834
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:29,319
Speaker 1: lack of structural integrity due to too rapid growth. It

835
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 1: wasn't they weren't exploding. It was not that dramatic. They

836
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:33,479
Speaker 1: were just cracking open.

837
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 3: Yes, the chemical in question is forcheler finuron, which is

838
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 3: a legal chemical that helps the cells of the fruit separate,

839
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 3: but in the case of watermelon, can lead to less

840
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 3: desirable results in terms of white seeds and kind of

841
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 3: a wonky fruit shape. Reporters blamed the farmers for using

842
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,760
Speaker 3: this chemical too late in the game when the weather

843
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 3: was wet, which led to the watermelons exploding. Some farmers

844
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 3: lost entire acres watermelons, and at least one reported not

845
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,320
Speaker 3: being able to sleep due to images of these fruits exploding.

846
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 3: And we're talking like one hundred a day, so it

847
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:14,359
Speaker 3: was a pretty substantial loss. Forchler Fenuron, which has been

848
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 3: used in China since the nineteen eighties, is generally considered

849
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,760
Speaker 3: to be safe for consumption, but when interviewed, some experts

850
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 3: suggested that watermelons are kind of finicky and not suitable

851
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 3: for this chemical. On top of that, though some watermelons

852
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 3: not treated with this chemical in China were exploding at

853
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 3: the time. According to some reports, it may have been

854
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 3: the weather or the size of the watermelon that caused

855
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 3: the explosions in those cases.

856
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'll put in here that, like any number

857
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: of things, can cause a loss of structural watermelon integrity,

858
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 1: Like the grinds are good at their job, but only

859
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 1: to a certain point, right.

860
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:57,879
Speaker 3: And you can see the experiment that involves wrapping river

861
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 3: bands around watermelons until they explode, which videos that honestly

862
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 3: make me nervous, but people love exploding watermelons on the internet,

863
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:08,879
Speaker 3: and it does look cool in slow motion.

864
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 2: Watermelons, it has good goop, you know, like different types

865
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 2: of I think if you're gonna have a fruit explode

866
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 2: in an interesting way, like a watermelon's a good one.

867
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 2: It seems like the goop has the right amount of

868
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 2: moisture and consistency to really just turn into kind of

869
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 2: guts that go everywhere. That seems that way to me.

870
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 1: It's still bright and festive, festive guts.

871
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 3: Moving on to aluminum cans, so a similar thing happens

872
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 3: that's going on with watermelons, as we've been discussing when

873
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 3: aluminum cans of beer carbonated sodas explode. In cars, hot cars, specifically,

874
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 3: the interiors of cars can be quite a bit hotter

875
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 3: than the outside, especially over time, and this can to

876
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 3: the carbon dioxide molecules separating from the liquids and putting

877
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 3: more and more pressure against the aluminum container that they

878
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 3: are in.

879
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 1: Yes, and note that these cans are already under pressure.

880
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 1: And that's that's because basically, carbon dioxide has no interest

881
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 1: in getting itself permanently mixed up with water or with

882
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 1: like water plus whatever sugar syrup you've got going on

883
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 1: in a cannesoda. Like little bits of carbon dioxide will

884
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 1: dissolve into water, but the water molecules can't really hold it.

885
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 1: Most of the gas of its own accord would just

886
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 1: float on top of the liquid. So to convince it

887
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 1: to stay put, you have to apply pressure. And when

888
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 1: you apply that pressure, it forms sort of cages of

889
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:49,280
Speaker 1: water molecules around carbon dioxide molecules, holding them in place.

890
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,240
Speaker 2: Which is why when you open a carbonated beverage suddenly

891
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 2: you see all these bubbles escaping. They've been held in

892
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 2: place by the pressure, and you just released it by

893
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 2: opening the vessel exactly.

894
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, when you're applying that pressure. It helps

895
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 1: a lot to do so at cold temperatures, as we've

896
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: been talking about, because all of the molecules involved will

897
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 1: be less active and like more willing to pack it

898
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 1: in you can. You can think of it sort of

899
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 1: like a busy elevator, like if the ac is out,

900
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 1: you might be less willing to crunch in with a

901
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 1: bunch of people in there. Because and right, and and

902
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 1: as you may know, as temperature increases, pressure also increases,

903
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,400
Speaker 1: so you can dissolve a lot more carbon dioxide and

904
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:38,319
Speaker 1: water at cold temperatures with less pressure in use. If

905
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 1: you've done all this right, your carbonated water will contain

906
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:47,800
Speaker 1: like five times as much carbon dioxide as water by volume.

907
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: This is what we call a supersaturated solution, meaning that

908
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 1: as long as you keep it under pressure, like until

909
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 1: you pop the top on that can or leave it

910
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:02,439
Speaker 1: in a hot car, you can let the can heat

911
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 1: up to room temperature or a little bit above without

912
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:09,760
Speaker 1: any gas escaping front from the water, from the matrix

913
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:13,360
Speaker 1: of water that's in. But we're not talking about a

914
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:15,920
Speaker 1: little above room temperature in a hot car.

915
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no. This pressure can increase up to

916
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 3: five or six times during this process when left in

917
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 3: a hot car. Most cans are designed to withstand this

918
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 3: amount of pressure, but of course there are some that aren't,

919
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 3: or imperfections or flaws that could lead to failure. Most

920
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 3: of the time, this occurs at the top where the

921
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 3: sea meets the body of the can. And I'm sure

922
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 3: all of you have seen the lids of these cans

923
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 3: with a bubble or a distended bit at the top.

924
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 3: That's often what's going on. It doesn't mean the can

925
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 3: is going to explode if you open it. That's relatively rare.

926
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 3: Usually the bubble is just a way to really pressure.

927
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,800
Speaker 2: Does that usually mean that it's because the can got

928
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 2: hot at some point or is there another main cause?

929
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 3: You know, I I think it's usually it's either damage,

930
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:12,479
Speaker 3: some kind of damage happened, or imperfection happened, or heat. Yeah, yes,

931
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 3: I know that. That is a story that I see

932
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 3: every couple of years pop up where people are freaking

933
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 3: out about like what does this bubble mean in my can.

934
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 2: And confusing that in the case of carbonated beverages with

935
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,400
Speaker 2: the really the dangerous thing, which is bulging cans that

936
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 2: might have botulinum toxin in them.

937
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:37,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, you can drink from a bulby can, but

938
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 1: but if your food can has gone bulby, that's that

939
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:42,319
Speaker 1: is a no. That is a no go.

940
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:42,839
Speaker 2: Good to know.

941
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 3: Again, we aren't this is These are all good facts

942
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,239
Speaker 3: right here. But we're not food experts.

943
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 1: We're not medical professionals.

944
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:56,720
Speaker 3: Yes, but this is what the science tells us. Oh

945
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 3: and speaking of in July, news outlets were reporting about

946
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 3: exploding cans of soda on south West flights due to heat.

947
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 3: Many of the hub cities for Southwestern cities that broke

948
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 3: their tempature records that year. That was one of the

949
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:18,319
Speaker 3: things they speculated might be the cause of it. When

950
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 3: reached for comment, Southwest expressed that the possibility of these

951
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 3: exploding cans had been communicated to employees and no incidents

952
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 3: involved customers.

953
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 2: I would have to imagine the cans couldn't be getting

954
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 2: that hot in the cabin with the passengers, right, that

955
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 2: would be in some kind of storage. Oh, because if

956
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 2: the passengers were that hot, that sounds like a bad flight.

957
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, hold my comments to myself.

958
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 2: Yes, Oh, do you have experience with Southwest?

959
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:53,240
Speaker 3: I have experience with bad flights?

960
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 2: Oh? Okay. It truly is like, I don't mind being

961
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 2: hot when I'm outside, but there is something that is

962
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 2: it makes me feel like I'm losing my mind if

963
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 2: I'm feeling too hot inside an airplane. That is one

964
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:11,400
Speaker 2: of the most horrible types of just basic uncomfortable feeling.

965
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:13,800
Speaker 2: I don't know what it is about the airplane environment.

966
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 2: It when you're hot in an airplane, it feels like

967
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 2: it means something, and it means something dangerous and and yeah,

968
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 2: threatening like the threatening foaming watermelon.

969
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:32,160
Speaker 1: I've got a lot of good threats in this episode.

970
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 3: I did.

971
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 1: I did want to put in here that an entirely

972
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 1: different thing than than what we've been talking about with

973
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:42,439
Speaker 1: these exploding cans is happening when a can of soda

974
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:48,439
Speaker 1: explodes in your freezer. And that happens because because water

975
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 1: molecules have to be liquid in order to contain carbon dioxide.

976
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:57,720
Speaker 1: So when they start to freeze, they can a increase

977
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:02,479
Speaker 1: in size and be pushed the gas molecules out, both

978
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 1: of which will eventually explode the can.

979
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:08,880
Speaker 3: And there have been a couple of recalls around Kraft beer,

980
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 3: especially those with fruit involved, around concerns of exploding cans.

981
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 3: Wild beers and sours involved ferments that can be difficult

982
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 3: to predict.

983
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 1: Ooh okay, And so fermentation in the can is a

984
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 1: thing that I have kind of a side quest about,

985
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 1: and that is about champagne danger.

986
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 3: M Yes, do.

987
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 2: Either of y'all know anything about like good champagne as

988
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 2: a consumer of it, That's just something I've never I've

989
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 2: never pierced that that, you know. I like good beer

990
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 2: and good wine, but the only champagne I think I've

991
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 2: ever really had is just whatever the cheapest stuff you

992
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 2: get for New Year's is.

993
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:54,360
Speaker 3: Uh. I've learned through the show, and I feel like

994
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 3: I have a good like medium tier and I've had

995
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 3: really fancy champagne before, but I feel confident my If

996
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 3: I need a cheap one, here's a pretty good one.

997
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 3: If I need a medium tier one, here's a pretty

998
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 3: good one. I usually don't go beyond that unless it's

999
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 3: an extremely special occasion.

1000
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've tried really hard to not teach myself what

1001
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 1: good champagne tastes like, because I don't want I don't

1002
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 1: want to be burdened with that knowledge. Also, as an

1003
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 1: expert in the field told us one time, like there's

1004
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 1: a certain point at which, like you won't be able

1005
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 1: to appreciate it if you're not seriously into wine, So like,

1006
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 1: don't don't bother with that.

1007
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 2: I will say, like we need to intentionally inculcate an

1008
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 2: expensive passion.

1009
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, ain't got time for that, although I will say

1010
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:52,480
Speaker 1: that if you're if you're looking for a decent bottle,

1011
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 1: if you look for words along the lines of metald champagnoi,

1012
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 1: the Champagne method, or some translation of that, perhaps in

1013
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 1: Spanish or Italian, that's a pretty good marker of decent

1014
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:09,280
Speaker 1: quality in a Champagne. It means it was made through

1015
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:13,520
Speaker 1: the traditional method, which is what I'm going to talk

1016
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 1: you through a tiny bit right here. It means that

1017
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 1: the second fermentation occurred in the bottle, but we're not

1018
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 1: ready for that yet. So all right, let us start

1019
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 1: by explaining that before a couple of technological advancements happened

1020
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:35,480
Speaker 1: in like the sixteen to eighteen hundreds, sparkling wine, especially

1021
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 1: if it was bottled in glass, was probably accidental and

1022
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:46,520
Speaker 1: definitely dangerous. Like if you've heard of Dampignon, that name

1023
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 1: is the name of this monk who legend dand or

1024
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 1: history has it was assigned to stop the sparkle in

1025
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 1: sparkling wine. Oh that's funny, yeah, yeah, So so enter

1026
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 1: Levin dub the Devil's wine. That's what this phenomenon was

1027
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:12,560
Speaker 1: called at the time. This phenomenon that sometimes seemingly spontaneously

1028
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 1: kind of a whole wine cellar would just explode. But okay,

1029
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 1: let's back up. So you get the intense sparkle in

1030
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 1: sparkling wine by making a normal wine and then putting

1031
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 1: it through a secondary fermentation in which you add more

1032
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 1: yeast and a little bit more sugar to each bottle

1033
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:33,880
Speaker 1: and then let the yeast do their thing. They eat

1034
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: the sugar, they produce carbon dioxide and a tiny bit

1035
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 1: more alcohol. But at this point it's really just the

1036
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 1: CO two that you're looking for, and before you sell

1037
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:44,160
Speaker 1: the bottle, you carefully get the dead yeast out of there.

1038
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 1: But yeah, keeping that much carbon dioxide dissolved in the

1039
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:52,120
Speaker 1: wine means that again the bottle, the interior of the

1040
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 1: bottle is under a lot of pressure, like five to

1041
01:00:54,920 --> 01:01:00,160
Speaker 1: six atmospheres or seventy to ninety psi, which is something

1042
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 1: like the pressure inside of a truck tire.

1043
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 2: Wow.

1044
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:05,960
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, So you have to have a sturdy

1045
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 1: bottle and a sturdy fastener to keep it contained. So

1046
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 1: what was going on with these exploding wine cellars. The

1047
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 1: vindudiel is that temperatures in some wine regions like Champagne

1048
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 1: would get cold enough early enough in the season that

1049
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 1: cellared bottled wine would stop fermenting in the winter before

1050
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 1: the yeast was done doing its thing. Oh and then

1051
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:37,120
Speaker 1: when it warmed up again in the spring, it would

1052
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 1: undergo the second wave of fermentation, which would dramatically raise

1053
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 1: the pressure inside the bottles and make them go fizzy

1054
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 1: and also make them explode, which was actually like a weird,

1055
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 1: huge and scary problem. I've read that between four and

1056
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 1: ten percent was like a common loss in wine cellars

1057
01:01:56,400 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 1: due to bursting, and that bad warm fronts would to

1058
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 1: some thirty to forty percent breaking. Other sources say that

1059
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:09,480
Speaker 1: sometimes the majority of a cellar could be lost, but

1060
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 1: basically like a single bottle going off could start a

1061
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 1: chain reaction around the cellar. Workers in these in these

1062
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 1: in these particular wine producing regions would wear heavy iron

1063
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 1: masks and full body padding to go into the cellar.

1064
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 2: Just in case, I'm trying to look that up right.

1065
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 1: Now, they looked sort of like medieval beekeepers, if the

1066
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 1: beekeepers were like a little more metal.

1067
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 2: Looking hard I cellar iron masks, you know. Oh okay,

1068
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:43,440
Speaker 2: I see, Oh I see. It's more of a more

1069
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 2: kind of a mesh kind of thing.

1070
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:47,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, well yeah, yeah, not like the man in the

1071
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:48,960
Speaker 1: iron Mask, Iron Mask.

1072
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:53,240
Speaker 3: Yeah so if I was misleading.

1073
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 1: But yeah yeah, so, uh, this all got solved because

1074
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:02,080
Speaker 1: like a few dudes in England worked out how to

1075
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 1: make stronger glass with these super hot cool coal fueled

1076
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 1: furnaces by the sixteen twenties or so, and those higher temperatures,

1077
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:16,440
Speaker 1: plus like the cosmetic but useful additions of iron and

1078
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 1: manganese to the glass made the bottles just much stronger.

1079
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 1: The coke fuel being developed around the same time, would

1080
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 1: eventually help glass making down the line. Also, the wire

1081
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 1: cap that goes over the cork when you open a

1082
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:34,000
Speaker 1: bottle of champagne, you have that, you have that wire

1083
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 1: cap over the cork. Yeah, it hooks under the lip

1084
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:38,640
Speaker 1: of the bottle to secure the cork in there. That

1085
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 1: was patented in the eighteen forties. It genuinely does help.

1086
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:45,919
Speaker 1: And starting around the early nineteen hundreds, there were also

1087
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:49,280
Speaker 1: fewer cellar explosions because the crown cap hit the scene.

1088
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 1: You know, the little notched bottle cap, Nukem cola cap

1089
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:55,200
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, yeah, that hit the scene in the

1090
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds. So secondary fermentation these days takes place

1091
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 1: with a crown cap on which is pretty secure. But uh,

1092
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 1: but yeah, it just it's it's a lot of pressure

1093
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 1: in this bottle, and that extreme pressure in a bottle

1094
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:13,320
Speaker 1: of sparkling wine is partially why you want to serve

1095
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 1: it chilled, other than it being delicious. Uh, Like, the

1096
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 1: cork is less likely to go flying when you take

1097
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:24,560
Speaker 1: off that wire cap if the bottle is chilled. This

1098
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:29,479
Speaker 1: is also why professional savors, you know, people who hack

1099
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:32,640
Speaker 1: the tops off of champagne bottles for fun and profit,

1100
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:37,280
Speaker 1: why they're fairly meticulous about keeping bottles chilled, because you're

1101
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:40,920
Speaker 1: when when you suborer open a bottle of champagne, you're

1102
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:43,920
Speaker 1: you're looking to induce a clean break in the glass

1103
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:47,520
Speaker 1: at a weak point in the neck, and you're less

1104
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:49,760
Speaker 1: likely to get glass of flying if the pressure is

1105
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:52,200
Speaker 1: slightly lower due to the temperature being slightly lower.

1106
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:56,120
Speaker 2: Hmmm. Interesting, I had no idea. Uh yeah, I thought

1107
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:57,840
Speaker 2: it was just a taste thing. Well, I did not

1108
01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:01,080
Speaker 2: know any of this about the Devil's Wine.

1109
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, wine making fermentation in general is full of danger.

1110
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:09,680
Speaker 1: There's a lot of stuff that can go weird.

1111
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:13,480
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I had been aware of fermentation explosions

1112
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 2: as a possibility because I've made fermented foods at home.

1113
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:19,880
Speaker 2: I've made kimchi and sour kroud and stuff, and of

1114
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 2: course I've got some special little bottle of jar caps

1115
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:25,000
Speaker 2: that I use there that have like a flap where

1116
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 2: they just pop open. You can get those pretty easily.

1117
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:30,440
Speaker 2: But you know, I'd always read like, you don't want

1118
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 2: to if you're making it in a jar, you don't

1119
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 2: want to do it with a tight screw on cap,

1120
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 2: because your jar can actually explode, like the gas builds up.

1121
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 2: It's that strong. And I'm sure a lot of people

1122
01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 2: if probably like if you buy kimchi or sour krowd

1123
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:44,880
Speaker 2: in a jar or something, you might have had it

1124
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:46,560
Speaker 2: explode in your fridge. That can happen.

1125
01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 3: Yes, And when I was researching this, I found an

1126
01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:55,760
Speaker 3: article about kombucha doing that, which I had recently confessed

1127
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:58,200
Speaker 3: to Lauren. I have this kombucha that's really really old,

1128
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:01,680
Speaker 3: and I was like, surely it's fine, because that's what

1129
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 3: it does. This article is like, baby, be a little

1130
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:06,720
Speaker 3: careful you open it.

1131
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 2: You open it under a towel, Like that's what I do.

1132
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:13,480
Speaker 2: And I'm opening champagne open under a towel. That always

1133
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:14,040
Speaker 2: works fine.

1134
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:16,840
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it helps to get a grip on the cork too. Yeah,

1135
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 1: so good. Though, if you ever do need a bottle

1136
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 1: of champagne sabered open, it so happens that Annie and

1137
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:29,920
Speaker 1: I are Dames of sabrage. We were knighted by a day.

1138
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:32,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're certified Dames of subrisin.

1139
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:36,919
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think Annie is slightly more certified than I am. Mine.

1140
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:41,960
Speaker 1: Mine didn't go as well as hested, but but tries.

1141
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 1: But you got a good clean break.

1142
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:48,440
Speaker 2: Wow. Well, hey, next time we we We've been meaning

1143
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:50,600
Speaker 2: to get our D and D group back together sometime,

1144
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 2: and next time we do that, I think we should

1145
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 2: have a bottle of champagne and see y'all slice it open,

1146
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 2: maybe with a magical sword, a magical item of some kind.

1147
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 1: See, and you don't. It's it's it's not again, it's

1148
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:03,400
Speaker 1: not a slice, it's a break. So you can sabrage

1149
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:08,920
Speaker 1: open a bottle with any any like heavy enough object.

1150
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 1: You're basically just looking to really tap it in the

1151
01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:14,200
Speaker 1: correct place. You can do it with the golf club.

1152
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:18,160
Speaker 1: You can do it with a totally blunt object. Yeah.

1153
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:22,600
Speaker 3: Yes, And actually the person Lauren mentioned earlier about developing

1154
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:23,600
Speaker 3: your taste.

1155
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 1: Harry Contentstinescu yeah.

1156
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:28,480
Speaker 3: Yes, he was the person who taught us. But he

1157
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:32,520
Speaker 3: also he told us that story in reference to the

1158
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:35,600
Speaker 3: fact that he had, according to him, a bottle of

1159
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:40,080
Speaker 3: champagne from the Titanic and he was waiting to develop

1160
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 3: his taste buds enough to appreciate this bottle. But that

1161
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:48,000
Speaker 3: also shows you how strong these bottles are.

1162
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:51,720
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's a good point. Wait, from the Titanic,

1163
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:54,920
Speaker 2: as in rescued from the bottom of the ocean.

1164
01:07:55,360 --> 01:08:01,080
Speaker 3: Yes, what really? Yeah, okay, that's what he told him.

1165
01:08:01,160 --> 01:08:02,040
Speaker 2: I have to look that up.

1166
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 3: Okay, yes, a report back. If he is told as

1167
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:09,760
Speaker 3: a fallacy, I'll reach out to him and be like,

1168
01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 3: how dare you?

1169
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 2: I have to look into this again.

1170
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:16,160
Speaker 1: That the pressure inside a bottle is equal to a

1171
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:18,200
Speaker 1: couple hundred feet of ocean depths.

1172
01:08:18,280 --> 01:08:21,400
Speaker 2: So that's amazing. Okay, No, I seriously will look into

1173
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:25,720
Speaker 2: it any Lauren. It has been such fun talking to

1174
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:28,599
Speaker 2: you today. We are hitting our time limit, I think,

1175
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:31,080
Speaker 2: so we're going to need to bold but anything else

1176
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:33,360
Speaker 2: you'll want to talk about with food storage, mad science

1177
01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:34,639
Speaker 2: before we wrap things up.

1178
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:38,799
Speaker 3: Yes, but we don't have the time right now.

1179
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:42,640
Speaker 1: I do want to put in a shout out to

1180
01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:45,600
Speaker 1: this book that I've been meaning to read since it

1181
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:49,799
Speaker 1: landed on my desk in twenty nineteen about the Boston

1182
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:53,559
Speaker 1: molasses flood. It's called Dark Tide, the Great Boston Molasses

1183
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:59,280
Speaker 1: Flood in nineteen nineteen by one Stephen Puelo. And so yeah,

1184
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:01,719
Speaker 1: I have not I still haven't read the whole thing.

1185
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:05,880
Speaker 1: So any errors in my material above was mine. But

1186
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:08,080
Speaker 1: it's a really cool book. Go check it out.

1187
01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 2: All right, Well, well, thanks again so much, Annie Reese

1188
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:14,960
Speaker 2: and Lauren Vogelbaum. Hey can you say once again where

1189
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:16,080
Speaker 2: people can find your work?

1190
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:20,599
Speaker 1: Sure you can find the podcast savor wherever you get

1191
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:23,639
Speaker 1: your podcasts. I'm also on a short form show called

1192
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:27,559
Speaker 1: brain Stuff that's science and history and whatever I'm interested in.

1193
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:31,880
Speaker 1: That week, Annie is on Stuff Mom Never Told You,

1194
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:36,479
Speaker 1: which is a feminist, intersectional cultural show, lots of NERD

1195
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:41,280
Speaker 1: references in there. Also, I'm doing a new show with

1196
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:45,679
Speaker 1: Dan Bush called Alive Again, which is a nonfiction show

1197
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:51,120
Speaker 1: about what happens when people have a near death experience

1198
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:55,640
Speaker 1: and how sometimes something about the near death experience, but

1199
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 1: often more about how it informs the way that they

1200
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:02,280
Speaker 1: live from then on. So that's a heavy one, but

1201
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:06,439
Speaker 1: a fun one. Also if you would like to if

1202
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:08,800
Speaker 1: you are listening to this as it comes out and

1203
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:11,120
Speaker 1: you're in the Atlanta area, We're going to be at

1204
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:15,240
Speaker 1: the PRX Podcast Creator Summit on a panel on Wednesday,

1205
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:18,080
Speaker 1: July thirtieth from seven to nine pm. It's going to

1206
01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:22,559
Speaker 1: be about telling food stories in Atlanta with a couple

1207
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:25,880
Speaker 1: of really amazing other panelists. And it's free and open

1208
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:29,719
Speaker 1: to the public and located Plywood on the West Side

1209
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:33,920
Speaker 1: with a reception afterwards at Monday Night brewing with free

1210
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:38,839
Speaker 1: drinks and food. So come gauk at us. We're awkward

1211
01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:40,439
Speaker 1: and we would love to see you.

1212
01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:42,960
Speaker 3: And make your food opinions known.

1213
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:45,479
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, tell us all of your tell us all

1214
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:47,960
Speaker 1: your weird ones. We want strong opinions.

1215
01:10:48,280 --> 01:10:52,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, well, Lauren, Annie, thank you so much.

1216
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:55,400
Speaker 2: Let's see. What do we usually say at the end

1217
01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:57,760
Speaker 2: of the show is if you are new to the

1218
01:10:57,800 --> 01:10:59,519
Speaker 2: show and you want to know what we do here,

1219
01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:02,160
Speaker 2: this is stuff to blow your mind. We are a

1220
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:06,320
Speaker 2: science and culture podcast with core episodes publishing on Tuesdays

1221
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:09,720
Speaker 2: and Thursdays of every week. On Fridays, my regular co

1222
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:13,200
Speaker 2: host Rob Lamb and I do an episode called Weird

1223
01:11:13,240 --> 01:11:16,880
Speaker 2: House cinema where we just watch weird movies. They can

1224
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:20,559
Speaker 2: be old, new, good, bad, well known, or obscure. The

1225
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:23,680
Speaker 2: only real criterion is they've got to be weird. No,

1226
01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:26,960
Speaker 2: let's see. We do short form episodes on Wednesdays, and

1227
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:30,800
Speaker 2: then on Mondays and Saturdays we run older episodes of

1228
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:34,120
Speaker 2: the show, either from the vault of core episodes or

1229
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:37,439
Speaker 2: a Weird House Cinema rewind. If you want to follow

1230
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:39,800
Speaker 2: us on social media, I'm sure you can find us

1231
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:41,840
Speaker 2: on there with some variation of Stuff to Blow your

1232
01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:44,840
Speaker 2: Mind or Blow the Mind or something. You can follow

1233
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:47,960
Speaker 2: us on letterboxed for our Weird House Cinema account that

1234
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:51,360
Speaker 2: is just called weird House and I think that about

1235
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:55,919
Speaker 2: does it huge. Thanks as always to our excellent audio producer,

1236
01:11:56,040 --> 01:11:59,080
Speaker 2: JJ Posway. Thanks once again to Annie and Lauren for

1237
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 2: joining me today. If you would like to get in

1238
01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:03,519
Speaker 2: touch with us with feedback on this episode or any other,

1239
01:12:03,640 --> 01:12:05,960
Speaker 2: to suggest a topic for the future, or just to

1240
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:09,320
Speaker 2: say hello, you can email us at contact at stuff

1241
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:18,840
Speaker 2: to Blow your Mind dot com.

1242
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:21,880
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1243
01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:25,800
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1244
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:41,679
Speaker 1: or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.