WEBVTT - Looking at the Lives of Black Singles

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stenovich on Bloomberg Radio. No dabt

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<v Speaker 1>about it. Understanding our world and how it ticks or

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't involves a deeper understanding of all the sections, division,

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<v Speaker 1>subsets and groups that truly make up a country, and

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<v Speaker 1>that includes, as a new book points out, the forty

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<v Speaker 1>five percent of Black women and men in the US

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<v Speaker 1>that have never been married and that represent a compositional

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<v Speaker 1>shift in the black middle class. So let's get to

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<v Speaker 1>it with doctor Chris Marsh, Associate professor at the University

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<v Speaker 1>of Maryland. Her book The Love Jones Cohort, Single and

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<v Speaker 1>Living Alone in the Black middle Class is with Us.

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<v Speaker 1>She joins us via zoom in Maryland with Us as

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<v Speaker 1>well Bloomberg Media Editorial Head of Inclusive Programming, Chartia Brantley.

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<v Speaker 1>She is also Deputy bureau chief here at Bloomberg Knew

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<v Speaker 1>She's in our studio, doctor March. So great to have

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<v Speaker 1>you here with Shartilla and myself, Chartia bringing you and

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<v Speaker 1>your book to our attention. So we're grateful to her

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<v Speaker 1>for that. The title Schartia knew what it meant I didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>It came from a movie, So explain it. The Love

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<v Speaker 1>Jones Cohort, what it's all about. Yes, it's a pleasure

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<v Speaker 1>to be with you today. So the Love Jones Cohort.

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<v Speaker 1>The title comes from a movie called Love Jones. When

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<v Speaker 1>we think of like the quintessential black middle class family

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<v Speaker 1>or upper Black middle class family, we often default to

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<v Speaker 1>the Huxtables on The Cosby Show. But the Love Jones

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<v Speaker 1>is where we started to see a demographic shift away

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<v Speaker 1>from married couples to young Black professionals who weren't married

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<v Speaker 1>and didn't have any children. So the demographics in the

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<v Speaker 1>movie Love Jones is who I'm really trying to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about in the book, and cohort is nothing more than

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<v Speaker 1>a demographic term that means a band of people. Now

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<v Speaker 1>I'm flipping through your book and I cannot wait to

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<v Speaker 1>read a page by page from beginning to end. And

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<v Speaker 1>in many ways it feels like a textbook but has

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of personal stories. Just reading the profiles of

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<v Speaker 1>the more than sixty people you spoke to, I felt

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<v Speaker 1>like I know them because many of them are people

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<v Speaker 1>that I know in my life, my family members, my friends.

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<v Speaker 1>And your book has been described as quote a structural

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<v Speaker 1>understanding of how identities of race, class, gender, and singleness

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<v Speaker 1>reconfigure the black middle class. So can you break that

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<v Speaker 1>down for us, doctor Marsh? Absolutely. So. A lot of times,

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<v Speaker 1>especially like in Black America, yea professional black women, and

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<v Speaker 1>people often ask the professional black woman, why aren't you married?

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<v Speaker 1>Why don't you have any children? And so if we're

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<v Speaker 1>not careful, it becomes the very individual conversation, and so

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<v Speaker 1>people in the quote board to feel like, something's wrong

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<v Speaker 1>with me. I'm not married, I don't have any children.

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<v Speaker 1>What was me? Something's wrong with me? And so I'm

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<v Speaker 1>trying to move it away from an individual conversation to

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<v Speaker 1>a way more structural conversation to suggest that structural forces

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<v Speaker 1>constrain our personal choices, but differently, racism constrains our dating pool.

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<v Speaker 1>So if I, Chris Marsh, but a PhD wants to

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<v Speaker 1>marry a heterosexual black man with another PhD, my dating

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<v Speaker 1>pool is constrained. If I want to marry a black

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<v Speaker 1>man with a PhD who owns a home, I'm constrained.

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<v Speaker 1>PhD with the home and estate planning, I'm constrained. So

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<v Speaker 1>it's a structural argument that we need to think about

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<v Speaker 1>when we talk about singlehood, we can't just keep it

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<v Speaker 1>at the individual level, and that's what the book really

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<v Speaker 1>tries to do. Chris, what's the difference between black, single

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<v Speaker 1>black individuals and single white individuals? Because I would argue

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<v Speaker 1>that there's a fair amount of white individuals who feel

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<v Speaker 1>the same thing that I go to a family reunion

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<v Speaker 1>and they're like, wait, you're not married, what's wrong with you?

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<v Speaker 1>Or you know what's going on? So what's the difference?

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<v Speaker 1>And why is it important that we're you're writing about

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<v Speaker 1>this and singling it out right. So that's a really

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<v Speaker 1>great question. And so the point is that this book

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<v Speaker 1>is for everybody. It's not just for people that are

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<v Speaker 1>single and living alone in the black middle class. It's

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<v Speaker 1>for anybody who has been single. And for the record,

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<v Speaker 1>we've all been single at one point in time, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's just for us to think about out single hood

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<v Speaker 1>and more nuanced kind of ways. Now. I inserted myself

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<v Speaker 1>into the conversation at the black middle class junction because

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<v Speaker 1>what happens is that these are people who have quote

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<v Speaker 1>unquote done everything right. They've they've gone to school, got

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<v Speaker 1>big degrees, got big salaries, got big houses, or have

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<v Speaker 1>big houses but they don't have the mrs degree in

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<v Speaker 1>some cases for black women, and so it's important that

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<v Speaker 1>we understand the social context. We do have a rise

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<v Speaker 1>in single hood across the board, but I would argue

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<v Speaker 1>that maybe some people are coming to single hood by

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<v Speaker 1>choice and some of them are coming to single hood

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<v Speaker 1>by force, regardless of how they're getting there. We need

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<v Speaker 1>to have a more nuanced conversation about single hood and

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<v Speaker 1>destigmatize singlehood. People aren't people don't want to hold the

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<v Speaker 1>title of single that they're going to get into relationships

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<v Speaker 1>that are oppressive, unfulfilling, toxic, abusive simply because they don't

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<v Speaker 1>want to hold the title of single. So I'm trying

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<v Speaker 1>to destigmatize singlehood and have people stand confidently in their

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<v Speaker 1>single hood regardless of you're black, white, and stripe or purple. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>I feel that your book works to counter the narrative that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, black women need to be married and be

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<v Speaker 1>a part of a you know too person household in

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<v Speaker 1>order to uphold the economic stability of the black middle class.

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<v Speaker 1>What has been the response to your book so far?

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<v Speaker 1>What are you hearing so? Yeah, So that is really

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<v Speaker 1>a great question, and some people and I get hate mail.

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<v Speaker 1>Some people are like, you're bad for Black America, You're

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<v Speaker 1>you must be a man hater, and so on and

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<v Speaker 1>so forth. I explicitly say in the book that I

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<v Speaker 1>am not anti marriage. I am all about marriage. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>all about love. I'm all about black love. However, if

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<v Speaker 1>it's done right, everything that we consume is cater to

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<v Speaker 1>a marriage and a partnered market big screen, small screen,

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<v Speaker 1>social media, and so sometimes people will just get into

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<v Speaker 1>relationships because their conditioned to think that's what I absolutely

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<v Speaker 1>need to be in. And I'm saying, hold on, wait

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<v Speaker 1>a minute, these people are. There are people that are single,

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<v Speaker 1>they're very happy in their single hood, and they're learning

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<v Speaker 1>how to live full lives and have wonderful lifestyles. So

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<v Speaker 1>let's talk about their lifestyles. Let's not leave the conversation

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<v Speaker 1>at why aren't you married, why don't you have each children,

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<v Speaker 1>because that's a very deficit model. Let's talk about what

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<v Speaker 1>you are doing and how you're navigating single hood. And

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<v Speaker 1>one of the things that comes up a reoccurring theme

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<v Speaker 1>is that friends play a sensual role in how they

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<v Speaker 1>navigate their single hood lifestyle. I just think back to

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<v Speaker 1>some of the conversations i've had in my own family

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<v Speaker 1>over the holidays, and you're living this, right. I have

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<v Speaker 1>lived this the questions you know, why aren't you doing this?

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<v Speaker 1>And you accomplish so much, you know, I went to

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<v Speaker 1>college and obtained two masters and the bachelor's and then

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<v Speaker 1>I still get but you're not married and you don't

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<v Speaker 1>have any children, so you know, what are you doing?

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<v Speaker 1>We've come so far and yet we haven't. Hey, listen,

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<v Speaker 1>we just have about a minute left here. What do

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<v Speaker 1>you hope people who are listening take this conversation? And

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<v Speaker 1>what actions do you hope come out of this? And again,

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<v Speaker 1>just kind of had a minute left. Three quick things. One,

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<v Speaker 1>I want us to destigmatize singlehood. I want people to

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<v Speaker 1>stand confidently in their singlehood and don't think they have

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<v Speaker 1>to be partnered or married. Two, I want you to

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<v Speaker 1>ask married people why are they married? And stop asking

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<v Speaker 1>single people why they're single. If you're going to ask

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<v Speaker 1>the people why, why are your marriage? Why? Ask the

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<v Speaker 1>money and wait for a coherent response. And then, more importantly,

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<v Speaker 1>I want us to think about how we define family

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<v Speaker 1>and so if you're single and living alone, why can't

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<v Speaker 1>you be a family of one? There's advantages to be

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<v Speaker 1>able to labeled as a family. A benign example would

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<v Speaker 1>be a self phone family plan. I can't get a

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<v Speaker 1>self phone family plan. I want to discount on my

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<v Speaker 1>one phone. A more egregious example would be the tax structure.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a singlehood penalty that's built into the tax structure.

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<v Speaker 1>Dorothy Roberts would a great, great book, The Whiteness of Wealth,

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<v Speaker 1>and she argues that we should all file a single

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm like, if we can't all file the single,

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<v Speaker 1>we should all be able to file as family and

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<v Speaker 1>I want to be able to file as of one.

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<v Speaker 1>We have talked with her Dorothy Room, Yeah exactly, and

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<v Speaker 1>talked about her book. Um, what a treat. Thank you

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<v Speaker 1>so much doctor Chris marsh Over at the University of

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<v Speaker 1>Maryland her book The Love Jones Cohort. Such a treat

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<v Speaker 1>and our thanks to our Chartilla Brantley as well. This

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<v Speaker 1>is Bloomberg Radio