Speaker 1: Hi.
Speaker 2: I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
Speaker 2: and speaker.
Speaker 3: And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
Speaker 3: and course creator. We are two working parents who love
Speaker 3: our careers and our families.
Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
Speaker 2: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
Speaker 2: From figuring out childcare to mapping out long.
Speaker 1: Term career goals.
Speaker 2: We want you to get the most out of life.
Speaker 2: Welcome the best of both worlds.
Speaker 4: This is Laura.
Speaker 2: This episode is airing in mid December of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: Sarah is going to be interviewing Onika Raymond, who is
Speaker 2: a travel journalist. They're going to be talking about all
Speaker 2: things traveling with children, attempting to enjoy what is sometimes
Speaker 2: a stressful experience, having a different mindset about that. So, Sarah,
Speaker 2: you've traveled with your kids. What are some of your
Speaker 2: favorite trips that you've taken with your kids?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I thought it was fun to discuss kind of like
Speaker 3: top trips with Onnika, and then that got me reflecting
Speaker 3: on what have our top trips been? So my kids
Speaker 3: and I would agree with them, say that our Alaska
Speaker 3: and Vancouver trip holds the number one spot. We went
Speaker 3: summer of twenty twenty three and we went with a
Speaker 3: friends fan like the family that we travel with, so
Speaker 3: we were with them for kind of half the trip,
Speaker 3: and there was also a Disney cruise in there, so
Speaker 3: it just it had a lot packed into about a
Speaker 3: twelve day stretch and it was wonderful and Alaska is
Speaker 3: like just another world, So that was number one. Number two,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna cheat a little bit because we've taken this
Speaker 3: trip twice, but skiing in Montana is a family favorite,
Speaker 3: and both times we went, it was honestly surpassed our
Speaker 3: expectations and just so many fond memories.
Speaker 4: So that gets the number two spot. And then no
Speaker 4: number three.
Speaker 3: I debated on this and I was like, oh, something beachy,
Speaker 3: But then ultimately we had a really memorable trip to
Speaker 3: Whistler in Seattle and Portland in twenty eighteen. That was
Speaker 3: a trip where Genevieve I had in a baby carrier
Speaker 3: the whole time, and it was like, right as she
Speaker 3: was starting to crawl, I remember being like, please don't crawl,
Speaker 3: Please don't crawl. And then of course like right as
Speaker 3: the trip was starting, she figured out how to scoot
Speaker 3: all over the place, but nonetheless it was really really fun.
Speaker 3: Once again, the theme was meeting up with friends, because
Speaker 3: we visited Josh's really close friend who lives in Seattle,
Speaker 3: and I also saw friends in Portland as well, So.
Speaker 4: Definitely some common ingredients there. We like mountains, we like
Speaker 4: to be cool, and we like to see friends.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was going to say the cool mountainous region seems
Speaker 2: to be a theme with your favorite travel I mean,
Speaker 2: I've taken a lot of good shops. I didn't necessarily
Speaker 2: rank these top three, but some of the most memorable
Speaker 2: are some recent ones. I really enjoyed going to Spain
Speaker 2: with my boys this past year. Taking Ruth to Paris
Speaker 2: to see Taylor Swift also a really cool one. And
Speaker 2: then last summer and summer twenty twenty three, we went
Speaker 2: to Norway with the Big four kids, and that was
Speaker 2: also a really memorable trip, traveling all around the country
Speaker 2: seeing some amazing, cool mountainous scenery. It is different from
Speaker 2: what both of us are experienced in our daily life,
Speaker 2: so I think that's a lot of fun. Have you
Speaker 2: ever considered living abroad?
Speaker 3: We once went through a little New Zealand phase, even
Speaker 3: to the point of like figuring out what we had
Speaker 3: to fill out and learning about their elaborate points system
Speaker 3: for moving there, Like you have to kind of prove
Speaker 3: your worth and prove that you have years left to
Speaker 3: have earning power and contributing to their society. You can't
Speaker 3: just like plunk down in New Zealand whenever.
Speaker 4: You feel like it.
Speaker 3: But we we were like, Okay, I think as two doctors,
Speaker 3: we have like a decent enough chance our points value
Speaker 3: was going to be high enough, and we were like
Speaker 3: doing this, and then I was like, eh, I kind
Speaker 3: of want another baby, and I really don't think I
Speaker 3: feel like doing that while we're also moving to another country,
Speaker 3: So that plan was scrapped. Genevieve is here and we're
Speaker 3: probably staying in the United States for the foreseeable future.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think the idea of like doing a summer abroad
Speaker 2: or something. I don't think I'd want to move anywhere,
Speaker 2: but like two to three months might be a fun experience.
Speaker 4: That's certainly a topic.
Speaker 2: We're going to cover at one point on the show.
Speaker 2: And then it didn't work out for various reasons. But yeah, no,
Speaker 2: I think it would be fun to live abroad for
Speaker 2: a couple months and with kids. Most likely that would
Speaker 2: just be in the summer, but don't have any current
Speaker 2: plans for it.
Speaker 4: Just doing well travel.
Speaker 3: Our guest has done lots of that and she shares
Speaker 3: how that can work with certain flexible careers.
Speaker 4: So I think you'll be excited to hear it.
Speaker 2: Yeah sounds good. All right, Well, let's hear from Onnka Raymond.
Speaker 3: So, I am so excited to welcome Onnika, a travel
Speaker 3: journalist with many years of travel experience and so much
Speaker 3: amazing adventures and knowledge to share with us today.
Speaker 4: Thank you for coming on the show Onnka.
Speaker 3: Tell our life listeners a little bit about yourself and
Speaker 3: where you are recording from right now.
Speaker 5: Sure, thank you so much for having me on the show.
Speaker 5: Really excited to be a part of this.
Speaker 1: And what can I say? So, my name is Onka.
Speaker 5: I am a travel journalist, I'm an on camera host,
Speaker 5: and more than anything else, I'm just a storyteller and
Speaker 5: an explorer. And I'm currently on a round the world
Speaker 5: trip with my family and so I am talking to
Speaker 5: you from Namibia. So yeah, I've been gosh, I've been
Speaker 5: on the road. For almost seven weeks. It's been about
Speaker 5: five weeks that I've been in Africa, traveling to a
Speaker 5: bunch of different countries on the continent, which has been
Speaker 5: amazing and fulfilling. Currently, I am in Namibia, which is
Speaker 5: such an incredible, incredible place. It's my first time here.
Speaker 5: Oh good, I can't wait to share more about it.
Speaker 5: It's just an incredible trip so far.
Speaker 3: Oh, I can't wait to hear about it. Give us
Speaker 3: a little bit of background. Were you always a traveler?
Speaker 3: How did you get interested in traveling so frequently and
Speaker 3: sharing your stories about it and becoming a travel journalist
Speaker 3: so taking it to the professional level, Like how did
Speaker 3: this come about?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 5: So, you know, I always say that travel was kind
Speaker 5: of in my blood or it was kind of I
Speaker 5: guess within me to begin with, it's in my DNA.
Speaker 5: I grew up in Toronto, Canada, which is a very
Speaker 5: multicultural city. If you've ever been, it's one of the
Speaker 5: most think multicultural or it's one of the most culturally
Speaker 5: diverse cities in the entire world. And my family actually
Speaker 5: hails from Jamaica. So from the very start, from before
Speaker 5: I even turned a year old, I had a passport.
Speaker 5: I made my first trip abroad to Jamaica when I
Speaker 5: was I believe eleven months old, and so we just
Speaker 5: always traveled when I was younger because it was just
Speaker 5: something that we did. But it was funny because I
Speaker 5: tell people that people like me, or people who come
Speaker 5: from where I come from, we traveled more so for
Speaker 5: immigration and asylum. We didn't travel for leisure or entertainment
Speaker 5: or for transformation. Travel for US was very much a necessity.
Speaker 5: And so even though I traveled extensively when I was younger,
Speaker 5: it was mostly to visit family and more family in
Speaker 5: the Caribbean.
Speaker 1: In the US.
Speaker 5: And it wasn't until I went to university that I
Speaker 5: had the chance to do a study abroad.
Speaker 1: And I did a study abroad. I lived for a
Speaker 1: year in France.
Speaker 5: And I always repeat this story to people where I
Speaker 5: say that in the first week living in the residence hall,
Speaker 5: so living in the dorms, I met people from countries
Speaker 5: that I had never even heard of before. I met
Speaker 5: people from the Comoros Islands, I met people from Madagascar,
Speaker 5: I met people from a lot of different French colonies,
Speaker 5: departments and territories, and that just opened up my eyes.
Speaker 5: And then of course living in Europe for a year.
Speaker 5: I had the chance to travel all around France. I
Speaker 5: did a little bit of European travel, traveling to Italy
Speaker 5: and to England and to Spain and Portugal, and I
Speaker 5: even had the opportunity to touch down on the African continent.
Speaker 5: I had the chance to visit Morocco. And so after
Speaker 5: having that experience for a year, it totally expanded my worldview.
Speaker 1: And so by the.
Speaker 5: Time I got back to Canada, I got back to Toronto,
Speaker 5: my travel bug, the travel bug bit me, and so
Speaker 5: I wanted to find a way, anyway really to get
Speaker 5: back abroad again. And you have to understand that this
Speaker 5: was before social media, This was before Instagram, this was
Speaker 5: before the internet was what it is today, and so
Speaker 5: there was no such thing as being a digital nomad.
Speaker 5: And the only things you could do to keep on
Speaker 5: traveling and to make a living at it was either
Speaker 5: to go overseas as part of the military, or go
Speaker 5: in some sort of diplomatic function as a foreign service officer.
Speaker 1: Or to teach.
Speaker 5: And so I got into education that allowed me to
Speaker 5: teach overseas. So I taught overseas in France. I taught
Speaker 5: English in France and then afterward I went back to
Speaker 5: Canada the US to get a master's in education to
Speaker 5: get a teaching certification.
Speaker 1: And then I went back abroad.
Speaker 5: I ended up teaching in what are known as international schools.
Speaker 5: So I was teaching I guess, well off, affluent expat
Speaker 5: families who were posted overseas, and so that kind of
Speaker 5: started a career in education that was ten years long.
Speaker 5: And had the opportunity to teach in Hong Kong and
Speaker 5: in Mexico and in England before I moved to the
Speaker 5: US in twenty sixteen and decided that I did not
Speaker 5: want to teach in New York City. And by that time,
Speaker 5: Instagram was kind of a thing and social media kind
Speaker 5: of was a thing, and where I was just kind
Speaker 5: of writing for different publications.
Speaker 1: I was writing articles.
Speaker 5: Realized that I could actually use social media as a
Speaker 5: vehicle to continue traveling and continue working in this field,
Speaker 5: and so it was all really organic, to be quite
Speaker 5: honest with you. You know, when I was teaching and
Speaker 5: before social media was reliefing, I had a blog. From
Speaker 5: that blog, I started getting noticed by different publications like
Speaker 5: Conde Nest Traveler, and so I started getting commissions to
Speaker 5: write articles for various travel publications, and then when I
Speaker 5: moved to the US, I really went in and started
Speaker 5: doing like YouTube and all these other you know, kind
Speaker 5: of working these social media platforms. And from that, my
Speaker 5: presence online really grew. I was able to attract different
Speaker 5: contracts and sponsors and all of these different things. And
Speaker 5: here I am, almost ten years later working in the field,
Speaker 5: which has been so cool.
Speaker 4: Your journey to becoming a travel professional. I love it.
Speaker 3: So when did kids come into this story? Because I
Speaker 3: know you're a mom now, I don't know how old
Speaker 3: your kids are, so share kind of when that came about.
Speaker 3: And I'm curious, like, did motherhood change your feelings about
Speaker 3: travel or were you worried it would change things at all?
Speaker 5: So yeah, transparently, I was just traveling and having a
Speaker 5: good old time. I didn't know if I was interested
Speaker 5: in having kids. I was footloose and fancy free. My
Speaker 5: husband and I were deeks, so double income kids living overseas.
Speaker 5: I actually met my husband overseas in Hong Kong, and
Speaker 5: he's a German national like he's European, like properly European.
Speaker 5: We were just traveling the world together. We lived in
Speaker 5: Hong Kong, together. We lived in London, England together, and
Speaker 5: then we moved to the US together and we were
Speaker 5: just having a great old time traveling and when made
Speaker 5: the decision to have kids, it was kind of one
Speaker 5: of these things where it was like, Okay, we waited
Speaker 5: until the last second, you know, it was kind of like, Okay,
Speaker 5: let's make sure that we get all these travels out
Speaker 5: of our system, because inevitably, we're going to have this child,
Speaker 5: and everybody is telling us that, you know, we're not
Speaker 5: going to travel after we have a kid, where we're
Speaker 5: not going to be able to travel, We're not going
Speaker 5: to want to travel. So let's just get out of
Speaker 5: our system now. But you know what, we had our daughter.
Speaker 5: She's almost five, she's turning five in a month, and honestly,
Speaker 5: I feel as though that kind of reignited my urge
Speaker 5: and desire to see the world.
Speaker 1: My daughter at this point, she's almost five, She's been
Speaker 1: to over thirty countries.
Speaker 5: We've spent months in Latin America and in Asia. So
Speaker 5: she's just very well attuned to the world and I
Speaker 5: think it hasn't stopped us at all. I think people
Speaker 5: are really surprised that she's traveled so much, and they're
Speaker 5: surprised even more that we haven't let her being around
Speaker 5: stop us. We just kind of bring her along and
Speaker 5: it just as really a testament to how adaptable kids are,
Speaker 5: because everything she does, everything she sees, everything she learns.
Speaker 5: I mean, it's really through us as a vessel. And
Speaker 5: so this is her normal, traveling from place to place,
Speaker 5: different time zones, being on the plane, meeting different people,
Speaker 5: hearing different languages. That is her normal, and I really
Speaker 5: love that for her. She's a true global citizen in
Speaker 5: a way that my husband and I never worked just
Speaker 5: because we didn't have that opportunity.
Speaker 1: And forty years ago.
Speaker 5: Life was very very different, right, Like the access and
Speaker 5: the mobility that we have now does not compare it
Speaker 5: to what it was like back then. And so I
Speaker 5: think not only that did her, you know, being born
Speaker 5: reignite my need or my desire to travel, but it
Speaker 5: also very much compelled me to want to share the
Speaker 5: journey with other people and to show people to normalize
Speaker 5: traveling with small children to other people.
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 3: We're going to take a quick break and when we're back,
Speaker 3: I'm going to ask you some questions about those early
Speaker 3: days of traveling with a baby. All right, we are back,
Speaker 3: and I love that your daughter has gotten to have
Speaker 3: all these experiences. I agree that sounds absolutely amazing. I'm
Speaker 3: curious as to whether there was any Now, maybe there wasn't,
Speaker 3: because you're like more of a pro than I think
Speaker 3: most of us are to start with. But did it
Speaker 3: always feel easy from the get go, or even if
Speaker 3: it did, were there any mistakes or learning points that
Speaker 3: you made in the early days where you feel like
Speaker 3: you've figured things out since then in terms of traveling
Speaker 3: long haul trips and everything with a child.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean definitely. So. My daughter was a co
Speaker 1: with baby.
Speaker 5: She was born in January of twenty twenty, and by March,
Speaker 5: when she turned two months old, we were actually due
Speaker 5: to go on a trip. She was we were going
Speaker 5: to go to California. I'll never forget, and basically everything
Speaker 5: shut down. The US shut down completely, and so for
Speaker 5: the first six months of her life, we didn't go anywhere,
Speaker 5: we didn't travel, and then when she was six months old,
Speaker 5: a little over six months old, we ended up going
Speaker 5: to California. We ended up making that trip. In the end,
Speaker 5: we stuck to social distancing and we stuck to trips.
Speaker 5: You know, in the great outdoors where we wouldn't be
Speaker 5: in like enclosed spaces or anything like that.
Speaker 1: And I have to say, to.
Speaker 5: Be quite honest with you that at least in that range,
Speaker 5: that age range of like let's say, like zero to
Speaker 5: like two years old, I think it was easier than
Speaker 5: to travel with her just because she slept a lot,
Speaker 5: she didn't really demand much. So for a lot of
Speaker 5: new parents and parents of young children, I think there's
Speaker 5: a lot of like reticence and a lot of fear
Speaker 5: surrounding you know, what.
Speaker 1: Are they going to do? Like what are you going
Speaker 1: to eat? Like how are they gonna sleep on the plane?
Speaker 1: Da da dah? And honestly, I feel.
Speaker 5: As though before she could walk or talk was like
Speaker 5: way easier because pretty much, you know, you just feed
Speaker 5: her or you just make sure to travel during her
Speaker 5: nap times, and it was easy peasy. Now she's a
Speaker 5: lot more active. But I will say that now it's
Speaker 5: almost like traveling with like a little adult. To be
Speaker 5: quite honest with you, probably the most difficult stage for
Speaker 5: us probably would have been about you know that two
Speaker 5: to three years old phase where you know that verbal
Speaker 5: is still developing, so they can't necessarily express exactly how
Speaker 5: they feel. You get that terrible two thing going on
Speaker 5: with like the tantrums.
Speaker 1: That is challenging.
Speaker 5: But something that I always say to people is, well,
Speaker 5: your child would do that at home. So if they're
Speaker 5: gonna like throw a tantrum at home, like, why not
Speaker 5: do it in Greece, you know what I mean? So
Speaker 5: at least you can kind of like go out for
Speaker 5: like a drink and some sadiki later on, you know
Speaker 5: what I'm saying. So for us, it was just always
Speaker 5: important to just live our lives as we had been
Speaker 5: living our lives before, just with an extra friend. So
Speaker 5: it's been a really great time. And I think because
Speaker 5: we've just never really made it a big deal, because
Speaker 5: we've just made it so natural. Our daughter has just
Speaker 5: followed suit like it's just no big deal to her
Speaker 5: at all. She'll sleep when she's tired, if she wants
Speaker 5: food or she's hungry, she'll let us know, she needs
Speaker 5: to pee, she'll let us know, I mean, she just
Speaker 5: lets us know about her needs and we accommodate her.
Speaker 5: And honestly, it's no different than if we were at home.
Speaker 3: No, that makes sense, And you're right, those are tricky
Speaker 3: years with a kid no matter what, So you might
Speaker 3: as well have them while enjoying all the awesome things
Speaker 3: that you want to be doing. I'm with you that
Speaker 3: I feel like I feel like it's like eighteen months
Speaker 3: to three years is like, Oh, it's just a very
Speaker 3: hard parenting time in general because your kids have opinions
Speaker 3: but they make no sense.
Speaker 4: Yes, and it's not like you can and they can't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they can't express.
Speaker 3: Them and you can't reason with them because it's not
Speaker 3: their fault, but they're not ready.
Speaker 4: To do that yet.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, So what would you tell a family that
Speaker 3: is maybe approaching their first trip abroad with a young kid.
Speaker 3: Are there any go to hacks if it's not something
Speaker 3: that's like old hat for that family, like anything that
Speaker 3: you would think about in terms of planning the itinerary,
Speaker 3: like leaving space for certain types of activities.
Speaker 1: So tell me.
Speaker 5: Particularly with young children, I always recommend if you're taking
Speaker 5: some sort of flight, like a long haul flight, I
Speaker 5: would say to do it during their nap time. So
Speaker 5: I've found that traveling at night, for example, taking that
Speaker 5: that red eye, that late night flight has been clutched
Speaker 5: for us because our daughter that's when she's typically sleeping anyway,
Speaker 5: so we benefit from that and we don't have to
Speaker 5: worry about occupying her in a very tight space on
Speaker 5: the plane.
Speaker 1: Also bringing toys, you.
Speaker 5: Know, activities, but new activities to keep kids occupied is
Speaker 5: also very key if you're not a fan of screen time,
Speaker 5: which I don't love screen time, but I love screen
Speaker 5: time when it keeps my child quiet and not descriptive,
Speaker 5: like in an enclosed space like an airplane. If you're
Speaker 5: not into screen time, then bring what book, Bring cards,
Speaker 5: Bring something tactile, something that they can kind of fuss
Speaker 5: around with. Something that my now almost five year old
Speaker 5: is really into for the last three or so months.
Speaker 1: Is playing cards.
Speaker 5: So we have Uno and it's just I guess complicated
Speaker 5: for her enough to really engage and to make or
Speaker 5: think about how to play her cards, but it's also
Speaker 5: simple enough that she's still able to grasp the concepts.
Speaker 5: So she's really enjoying playing cards. And I find that
Speaker 5: us playing this card game even trump's like her getting
Speaker 5: screen time, like it's insane. We'll go out to a
Speaker 5: restaurant and the first thing she'll say is can we
Speaker 5: play Luno? And so that's kind of been a game
Speaker 5: changer for us. I would say, bring all the snacks
Speaker 5: if you can't. Kids are picky, so obviously if there's
Speaker 5: some sort of food that can sort of pacify them,
Speaker 5: then most definitely if that makes the journey easier for you,
Speaker 5: then definitely let them have it or.
Speaker 1: Bring it along.
Speaker 5: Something that I you know, before my daughter was really mobile,
Speaker 5: because probably up until the age of three and a
Speaker 5: half four we were still traveling with a stroller. We
Speaker 5: had this really lightweight stroller that I love. It was
Speaker 5: called the GB Mini Plus. I believe it's like one
Speaker 5: of the smallest lightest strollers on the market, so clutch,
Speaker 5: very easy. You know, a lot of people talk about
Speaker 5: the Yo yo Zen and all these different things which
Speaker 5: are slightly heavier and more robust, but I really, you know,
Speaker 5: for me, mobility is key. So as soon as we
Speaker 5: weren't able to babywear, which I love, like an Ergo baby,
Speaker 5: like very baby wearing sort of thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you got too heavy for that.
Speaker 5: I love bringing around this stroller which folded up into
Speaker 5: basically nothing. It could fit in a carry on suitcase,
Speaker 5: it can fit in the cabin, and it just gave
Speaker 5: us kind of a little bit more freedom and ease
Speaker 5: of mobility, just because my husband and I we love
Speaker 5: walking everywhere and we want to avoid cars wherever possible,
Speaker 5: wherever we can. So again, just like really simple things
Speaker 5: like whether it's a product or whether it's just a
Speaker 5: little accouterment that you can bring along, just to keep
Speaker 5: your child occupied and to keep you as a parent saying,
Speaker 5: I think that's kind of what I would suggest.
Speaker 4: When you're doing your itinerary planning.
Speaker 3: At One tip I've heard and that I have used
Speaker 3: is to like make sure you include and some kind
Speaker 3: of activity that provides space to run around, like even
Speaker 3: if you're in some.
Speaker 1: Yes, oh my god.
Speaker 5: It's probably my biggest tip is when we travel, we
Speaker 5: identify the playgrounds. We identify the playgrounds, like literally about
Speaker 5: ninety minutes before we got onto this call, we're in Namibia,
Speaker 5: but my child was at the playground. We identify the
Speaker 5: playgrounds because inevitably, I mean, kids are young, they have
Speaker 5: a lot of energy, and as much as you're kind
Speaker 5: of like, okay, well they're local by like my schedule, No,
Speaker 5: when they flip out, that's all out the window. So
Speaker 5: definitely highly suggest carving out some time in your schedule
Speaker 5: to allow kids to be kids another thing that we love.
Speaker 5: And even on this current around the world trip that
Speaker 5: we're doing, basically in every country, almost every country we've
Speaker 5: been in, we've gone to the mall and we found
Speaker 5: when these indoor playground sort of setups. So we were
Speaker 5: just in Kenya and we were at the mall and
Speaker 5: they had an indoor playground. You know, you pay ten
Speaker 5: dollars for the hour, and it has all of this
Speaker 5: set up with like a bouncy castle and different toys,
Speaker 5: and a lot of them that we've been to have
Speaker 5: costumes and things like that that kids can get into.
Speaker 5: So the indoor playgrounds have been a lifesaver. The outdoor
Speaker 5: playgrounds have been a lifesaver. And then if we're traveling
Speaker 5: in terms of accommodation, if we're staying in a hotel
Speaker 5: or actually I should probably say at resort, we always
Speaker 5: try and see if we can find one that has
Speaker 5: a kid's club.
Speaker 1: A few weeks ago, we.
Speaker 5: Were in Mauritius. We were staying on this really nice property.
Speaker 5: It was a Meridian, the Meridian, and they had an amazing,
Speaker 5: amazing kids club and we happened to be there over
Speaker 5: Halloween and they even had programming special programming for Halloween.
Speaker 5: So my child, who we didn't even want to tell
Speaker 5: her Halloween was happening because we're afraid that she was
Speaker 5: going to be really upset that she was missing it
Speaker 5: in the US. In Mauritius, she got to attend the
Speaker 5: Halloween party and she dressed up as a witch. And
Speaker 5: that day they had a whole thing where they got
Speaker 5: to learn like a dance routine to thriller, and then
Speaker 5: they did it for the parents at the at the
Speaker 5: tiki bar. So I think recognizing that your whole trip
Speaker 5: does not need to be centered around your child's experience,
Speaker 5: but really locking in and finding opportunities to make them
Speaker 5: happy and to enrich them, you know, even in a
Speaker 5: small way, I think it makes all the difference when
Speaker 5: you're traveling with them.
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 3: And the truth is, like even a playground can be
Speaker 3: a cultural experience because the way the kids play are different.
Speaker 3: You hear kids speaking different languages, and even like the
Speaker 3: equipment is going to be different and the clothing like everything.
Speaker 3: So I can see how like playgrounds around the world
Speaker 3: would actually be way more fascinating than it might sound
Speaker 3: from the outset.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, we were in a playground in a
Speaker 5: few weeks ago in Saudi Arabia and Jetta, Saudi Arabia,
Speaker 5: and my daughter was playing with like some Saudi.
Speaker 1: Kids at the park.
Speaker 4: That's awesome.
Speaker 5: It's amazing to see how little verbal communication actually counts
Speaker 5: in those situations because my child will I've seen it
Speaker 5: with my own eyes. She's bonded with kids where they
Speaker 5: have completely different backgrounds linguistically and they're able to get
Speaker 5: on just fun.
Speaker 4: It's like tag is a universal language exactly.
Speaker 3: Definitely, question about how you plan your travel Now, this
Speaker 3: might be unfair because you're a professional, so a lot
Speaker 3: of the planning might have to do with opportunities that
Speaker 3: you get, which makes total sense because this is.
Speaker 4: Your career as well.
Speaker 3: But do you have like a long range like wishless
Speaker 3: and how do you how do you track that? Like
Speaker 3: how do you like do you have things you tell
Speaker 3: me about your travel planning?
Speaker 5: So when I started out traveling, I was younger, I
Speaker 5: didn't have a ton of money, and I was just
Speaker 5: willing to go anywhere, and I really did not discriminate
Speaker 5: when it came to traveling. So most of the time
Speaker 5: back in the day when I was traveling, my travels
Speaker 5: were based on how much it cost.
Speaker 1: It was really simple.
Speaker 5: I would go to the cheapest places because my objective
Speaker 5: was just to be somewhere anywhere. Now that I'm older
Speaker 5: and obviously more picky, more stubborn, have some more money,
Speaker 5: I obviously have you know, a long and short list
Speaker 5: in terms of my bucket list destinations or my must
Speaker 5: dews and must sees. But still a lot of that
Speaker 5: list is predicated on how much does it cost and
Speaker 5: can I use? You know, now I'm just a little
Speaker 5: bit more sophisticated when it comes to funding these opportunities.
Speaker 5: So can I use my credit card points? Can I
Speaker 5: use my air miles?
Speaker 1: For example?
Speaker 5: We started this trip we knew that we wanted to
Speaker 5: eventually hit Africa, but when we're looking at our points
Speaker 5: of miles, we realized that it made way more sense
Speaker 5: and we could get way better redemptions if we flew
Speaker 5: to the Middle East first, And so that's what we did,
Speaker 5: and we ended up spending a couple of weeks in
Speaker 5: Dubai and in Saudi Arabia. And Saudi Arabia wasn't necessarily
Speaker 5: on our wish list, but once we saw how easy
Speaker 5: and quick it would be to get there from Dubai.
Speaker 5: It was kind of like, why not. So I think
Speaker 5: it's a mixture of that. It's a mixture of curiosity,
Speaker 5: it's a mixture of circumstance, it's a mixture of cost
Speaker 5: and all of those things combined. Really, you know, And
Speaker 5: I think just in general, we're just really I'm just
Speaker 5: very open minded. I'll still pretty much go anywhere. So
Speaker 5: if it's easy and it's cheap, I'll probably get there first.
Speaker 5: And the more expensive destinations or the more I guess
Speaker 5: onerous destinations to visit, those are kind of left to
Speaker 5: the wayside for now until I can figure out a
Speaker 5: way to kind of facility.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then maybe one day some amazing deal will
Speaker 3: pop up and you're like, great New Zealand, here I come.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 5: I'm a huge fan of just kind of throwing caution
Speaker 5: to the wind and just kind of checking. There's a
Speaker 5: couple of online platforms where you can just kind of
Speaker 5: click your your starting point and then in terms of
Speaker 5: the destination, you can just sort by cost, and so
Speaker 5: I do.
Speaker 4: A lot of that.
Speaker 3: Do you mind would you be able to share a
Speaker 3: couple of those orner them? So all right, well we're
Speaker 3: going to take another quick break, and then I'm gonna
Speaker 3: ask you about some of the most memorable trips you
Speaker 3: have ever taken.
Speaker 4: Maybe you're on one right now.
Speaker 3: All right, we are back and you're in the Mibium
Speaker 3: right now, so maybe this is going to be part
Speaker 3: of the answer. But if you had to say the
Speaker 3: top three most memorable or fantastic trips you've taken with
Speaker 3: your daughter, what would they be?
Speaker 1: Ooh so so so difficult to say.
Speaker 5: But you did mention that I'm in Namibia right now,
Speaker 5: and I absolutely had and oh my goodness, this is
Speaker 5: amazing moment. Two days ago so I had the chance
Speaker 5: to visit. I guess it's the is it the Nama Desert.
Speaker 5: I'm not even sure what the desert is called, but
Speaker 5: it's in sous Le dead Lay, which I'm probably butchering
Speaker 5: the pronunciation of.
Speaker 1: But it is in Namibia, and it's one of the
Speaker 1: I guess the largest deserts. And I'm not too sure of.
Speaker 5: The superlative that you would attach to it, but it
Speaker 5: definitely has one of the largest dunes and large expansive
Speaker 5: dunes in the world. And so we were climbing this
Speaker 5: done which is affectionately called the big Daddy dune, and
Speaker 5: I thought to myself, you know, I was surrounded on
Speaker 5: all sides by this red dirt, just miles and miles
Speaker 5: of it, and I thought, this is absolutely incredible. This
Speaker 5: is what living is about. And my daughter was just
Speaker 5: having such great time. She's definitely a beach girl. We
Speaker 5: were living in Miami prior to going on this trip,
Speaker 5: and so she was just she loves the beach, she
Speaker 5: loves being in the sand, playing in the sand, and
Speaker 5: so she was just having an incredible time. And I thought,
Speaker 5: this is really really cool. But honestly, I mean, there
Speaker 5: are It's so funny. Sometimes I go to places and
Speaker 5: I'm like, oh, this was like a tough trip. I'm
Speaker 5: glad that it's over, and then afterwards, a week later,
Speaker 5: I kind of get twins. I'm like, well, actually, that
Speaker 5: was really fun.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't mind be living that again.
Speaker 5: So I think oftentimes, with perspective and time, I feel
Speaker 5: differently about.
Speaker 1: Places, and sometimes it's more.
Speaker 5: About how I feel in a place or who I
Speaker 5: met in the place, as opposed to the actual physical
Speaker 5: geography of the place itself.
Speaker 4: That makes sense.
Speaker 3: So Nimbia, Namibia, any other nothing, no other specific destination
Speaker 3: is standing out to you.
Speaker 5: In terms of my daughter. I mean, we had a
Speaker 5: really great time in Japan. I thought that was she
Speaker 5: loves sushi. She's super bougie, so she will go in
Speaker 5: on the salmon and gury. And we went and we
Speaker 5: got to put on kimonos and get dressed up, and
Speaker 5: she really really loved that. She's very girly and she
Speaker 5: loves putting on different You know, she's somebody who really
Speaker 5: loves diving.
Speaker 1: Into the culture.
Speaker 5: I guess you could say so she loves kind of
Speaker 5: these experiences where she feels like a local.
Speaker 1: And it's funny to say that.
Speaker 5: It sounds funny that you would think you'd probably think
Speaker 5: that at that age she wouldn't have.
Speaker 1: Those sorts of preferences.
Speaker 5: But she really enjoys things like cooking classes and meeting
Speaker 5: local people. Something else that sticks out is earlier on
Speaker 5: this year, we traveled to India, and we traveled to
Speaker 5: India during Holy so that was in March, so during
Speaker 5: their celebration the Festival of Colors. We got to participate
Speaker 5: in that. But something that we also did was we
Speaker 5: did a Bollywood dance class and we also did a
Speaker 5: couple of cooking classes, and she absolutely loved that. So
Speaker 5: I think the more I guess, the more local experiences
Speaker 5: we engage in.
Speaker 1: The more she enjoys it.
Speaker 5: Like the sight seeing is okay for her, but she's
Speaker 5: also somebody who is an active learner, and so if
Speaker 5: she can do an interactive activity where it's very tactile
Speaker 5: or she's moving her body or something like that, she's
Speaker 5: super interested.
Speaker 1: She's super into it.
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 3: And it sounds like she loves food too, which I
Speaker 3: wholeheartedly agree with. And I can't even imagine how good
Speaker 3: the food is in both of those places.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3: All right, Well, another one kind of question we get
Speaker 3: a lot is time zone changes and jet lag. So
Speaker 3: do you have any tips for how you deal with this,
Speaker 3: both for with yourself and with your daughter.
Speaker 5: You know what, one of the things we always do
Speaker 5: we just get ourselves on the schedule of wherever we're
Speaker 5: going to. So for example, if I do, for example,
Speaker 5: we traveled from Miami all the way to Dubai.
Speaker 1: Via Qatar and we landed.
Speaker 5: If I do a long haul flight and I land
Speaker 5: at nine PM, I'm going to take myself to bed,
Speaker 5: because that's basically with the schedule.
Speaker 1: That I'm now on.
Speaker 5: Similarly, if I arrive at one in the afternoon, then
Speaker 5: I'm going out and I'm going to stay out and
Speaker 5: keep myself up until at least nine pm. So I
Speaker 5: think it's really important to get yourself on the schedule
Speaker 5: of the new destination as soon as possible.
Speaker 3: That's interesting, So like, no easing in, It's just like no, no, no,
Speaker 3: I've heard the daylight and it is helpful to like
Speaker 3: if you do land in the middle of the day,
Speaker 3: like get the sun in your face so that your
Speaker 3: body knows it's daytime.
Speaker 1: Now. Yeah, definitely, definitely.
Speaker 5: No, I'm definitely the type to hit the ground running,
Speaker 5: will fall into bed like a sack of potatoes because
Speaker 5: I'm absolutely exhausted.
Speaker 3: No, that makes sense because you're kind of lengthening out
Speaker 3: your day, but then ultimately probably with a few slightly
Speaker 3: longer sleeps.
Speaker 4: You'll you'll like just exactly. That's awesome.
Speaker 3: Okay, one last question, well, one last one before we
Speaker 3: get to the level of the week, which is, can
Speaker 3: you think of a tip that's like under the radar,
Speaker 3: Like is there anything you feel like people don't talk
Speaker 3: about enough regarding traveling with kids, Like I know, like
Speaker 3: something you just feel like people are missing.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 5: People always say, why would you travel with a one
Speaker 5: year old or a two year old? They're not going
Speaker 5: to remember it. It's a waste of time. You know,
Speaker 5: why you're going to travel with them? Because flying with
Speaker 5: them is free. Why I always encourage people. I'm like,
Speaker 5: why would you not take advantage of that? You could
Speaker 5: basically fly for free with this child, And quite honestly,
Speaker 5: before the age of one, it's so easy to travel
Speaker 5: with a kid, Like, why would you not just take
Speaker 5: advantage of that?
Speaker 1: So I always tell people.
Speaker 5: Do it while you can, while you don't have to
Speaker 5: pay for it, Do it while your child is young
Speaker 5: and they're not walking and you don't have to worry
Speaker 5: about them walking into into traffic or something like that.
Speaker 5: I wish we had, I guess, a better view or
Speaker 5: a more positive view of traveling with the young kids.
Speaker 5: I'm definitely about that life. And then also something that
Speaker 5: we've done quite often with our daughter, which I guess
Speaker 5: is deemed unconventional by most is we've spent months with
Speaker 5: her abroad and I understand, you know, as digital nomads
Speaker 5: and as particularly as someone who works in the industry,
Speaker 5: it's it's super easy for me to get away. But
Speaker 5: we've really been taking advantage of our child not being
Speaker 5: in like regular school to take these longer trips to
Speaker 5: live overseas.
Speaker 1: Last year we.
Speaker 5: Rented an apartment for a month in Chang My not
Speaker 5: in Chang Mai, in gosh in Kosamuay, Thailand, and then
Speaker 5: we spend another month in Bali. The year before, we
Speaker 5: spent two months in Pliotel Carmen, Mexico, and in Guatemala
Speaker 5: and in Colombia, and so just really taking these opportunities.
Speaker 5: If your child is not in school to world school,
Speaker 5: then I think that's something that people are not really
Speaker 5: taking advantage of and or it's not something that's really
Speaker 5: top of mind for folks.
Speaker 3: That's so cool, And you're right, like I do think
Speaker 3: it's underthought about because I have older kids now, and
Speaker 3: I do feel like the biggest constraint is the school calendar.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I feel like you're going to find a way,
Speaker 3: Like I see you figuring out like how to like
Speaker 3: a school around the world or something like that.
Speaker 4: Like you're going to figure out a way around it.
Speaker 3: But it is true, if you have a job that's
Speaker 3: very remote friendly, then if you have a three year old, there's.
Speaker 4: Really not that much stopping you from taking it on
Speaker 4: the road.
Speaker 5: And there's something and I think something that people don't
Speaker 5: realize is that life overseas is often way cheaper than
Speaker 5: it is in the US.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So when I look at my expenses and keep in mind,
Speaker 5: I lived in very expensive cities. I lived in New
Speaker 5: York City for almost seven years and I lived in
Speaker 5: Miami for two years, both very very expensive cities with
Speaker 5: a high cost of living that's increasing steadily. But rent
Speaker 5: and bills in those two cities. I mean when we
Speaker 5: basically lived in Thailand, we rented in Thailand for a month,
Speaker 5: or we rented in Vali for a month, or we
Speaker 5: rented in Plyi at Al Carmen in Mexico for two months,
Speaker 5: our costs, our living costs were like half yeah. So
Speaker 5: I mean you can really really take advantage, I feel,
Speaker 5: and a lot of people do not realize that, and
Speaker 5: it's to their detriment at the end of the day,
Speaker 5: because they're on the hamster wheel. You know, they're in
Speaker 5: the rat race, and there are other options. So I
Speaker 5: think that at least in terms of what I do,
Speaker 5: one of the goals that I have. Something that's really
Speaker 5: top of mind for me is just showing people what's
Speaker 5: possible and helping them to gain access and helping them
Speaker 5: to realize that there's no one way or there's no
Speaker 5: one right way to live life or to have kids
Speaker 5: or to raise children. And so that's kind of what
Speaker 5: I hope to achieve by sharing my story.
Speaker 3: Yes, Anika, you can't see me, so we turned our
Speaker 3: videos off for this, but I've been smiling the whole time,
Speaker 3: like you be just so many inspiring and interesting things,
Speaker 3: and I like the idea of just sort of like
Speaker 3: questioning the standard narratives about what's possible, and I think
Speaker 3: you've done that in such a cool way. Can you
Speaker 3: share your love of the week? I did warn you
Speaker 3: at the top of the episode that every week we
Speaker 3: share something that we are in love with in a
Speaker 3: given week, and I'm going to be really silly and
Speaker 3: share mine first. And my love of the week is
Speaker 3: feeling healthy and good because right now I'm a little
Speaker 3: bit sick. You know, we really don't spend enough time
Speaker 3: when we feel normal recognizing like what an amazing thing
Speaker 3: and blessing that is. So being a little cheesy today,
Speaker 3: but yeah, my love of the week is generally feeling good.
Speaker 4: I feel very lucky to have that be the case.
Speaker 1: I think that's beautiful. I think that's really really beautiful.
Speaker 5: And I'm going to share my loves of the week plural,
Speaker 5: which may sound a bit silly, but something that I realized,
Speaker 5: and I was telling this to my husband the other day,
Speaker 5: is something that I really love, Like when I check
Speaker 5: into my accommodation, something that I always look for and
Speaker 5: I'm always so geeked, like when I find it is
Speaker 5: a pair of slippers. I realize that I really love
Speaker 5: when my hotel offers me slippers like that for me
Speaker 5: is ultimate number one. And I've actually from the last
Speaker 5: two places we were staying at they had slippers, so
Speaker 5: I actually packed them in my bag and I brought
Speaker 5: them with me because I realized that that's something that
Speaker 5: I really needs.
Speaker 1: This is a big thing for.
Speaker 5: Me, and this is perhaps very specific to Namibia and
Speaker 5: Kenya where we were just now, both places where I
Speaker 5: feel cold, Like right now, I'm actually very cold. I'm
Speaker 5: in my fleece talking to you right now with a
Speaker 5: scarf around my neck.
Speaker 1: The hot water.
Speaker 5: Bottle has been so underrated for me because I live
Speaker 5: in Miami, where it's hot all the darn time, and
Speaker 5: I was on safari in Kenya a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 5: and now I'm in the Namibian desert and it's really
Speaker 5: cold at night. And the Turndown service where I'm staying
Speaker 5: now and where we were in Kenya, they put a
Speaker 5: hot water bottle in between the sheets, and it's the
Speaker 5: most amazing feeling ever.
Speaker 3: Well, I am talking to you from South Florida. I
Speaker 3: used to live in Miami. Now I'm in Broward County.
Speaker 1: But nice. I didn't realize it's.
Speaker 3: Fifty degrees right now and everyone is like in boots,
Speaker 3: and I wore my puffy jacket this morning, and I
Speaker 3: would have.
Speaker 4: Loved a hot water bottle in my bed today. So
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 1: That is awesome.
Speaker 4: I didn't know that we're having a cold front.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. So funny.
Speaker 5: It was maybe like sixty three or something like that
Speaker 5: last January. I remember because we had my in laws
Speaker 5: were visiting from Germany and I was freezing.
Speaker 1: I was a freezing I was feeling.
Speaker 5: I remember my mother in law was on our balcony
Speaker 5: and she was like this is great, and I'm like
Speaker 5: I'm dying, so I definite get it.
Speaker 3: Yes, Well, tell our listeners where they can find you,
Speaker 3: because I'm sure they're all going to be like anxious
Speaker 3: to click through right now and see what is happening
Speaker 3: with you in Namibia or whatever country you're in. Nice.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, well, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 5: I would be so honored for people to kind of
Speaker 5: follow along and tap in. So I can be found
Speaker 5: on social media, so on Instagram primarily, and my handle
Speaker 5: on Instagram is at my full name so Onnka Raymond
Speaker 5: O n e Ika ry.
Speaker 1: M O n D.
Speaker 5: And that's the same on Instagram, on TikTok, although I
Speaker 5: don't really post there, and my website is Onnica raymond
Speaker 5: dot com.
Speaker 4: I love it and we'll put that in the show
Speaker 4: notes as well.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for coming on all the way
Speaker 3: across the globe today.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 2: Well that was great, lots of travel discussion with Sarah
Speaker 2: and Oneka there. So this episode is airing in mid December,
Speaker 2: which means that for many people, a long winter break
Speaker 2: is on the horizon with kids home from school. So
Speaker 2: our question this week, Sarah ideas for getting through the
Speaker 2: long winter break with kids at home.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I know your mileage is going to vary
Speaker 3: based on whether you are somewhere that you're actually also
Speaker 3: like very much stuck inside, like if it is snow
Speaker 3: season or freezing rain season where you are versus not.
Speaker 3: I have historically done a lot of solo parenting, especially
Speaker 3: during winter break. Our common pattern is that we'll travel
Speaker 3: all together one week, but then Josh wall you usually
Speaker 3: have to work the other week. And my go to
Speaker 3: strategies have been really to make sure I have stuff
Speaker 3: on the calendar. It just doesn't work well to have
Speaker 3: multiple days at home without.
Speaker 4: A lot of things planned.
Speaker 3: So I have reached out in advance and try to
Speaker 3: figure out who else is stuck at home because fun fact,
Speaker 3: if you're doing it, probably someone else is doing.
Speaker 4: It too with kids similar ages.
Speaker 3: So it's like a prime time for playdates or just
Speaker 3: having people come over or meet up somewhere. We often
Speaker 3: fall into a rhythm, or we'll do something in the morning,
Speaker 3: something out in the community. For us, it's good weather season,
Speaker 3: so again I know that's not really fair, but something
Speaker 3: outdoors in the morning and then PM is more just
Speaker 3: like chill time. I think this year might be fun
Speaker 3: to have the kids create some kind of like really
Speaker 3: short mini bucket list just for that week, to kind
Speaker 3: of create a quest mentality out of it, because often
Speaker 3: that can just kind of make things seem like a
Speaker 3: little bit more fun, a little bit more gamified. And
Speaker 3: then I mean, it is a great time to organize.
Speaker 3: So it depends on the kid, but I have at
Speaker 3: least one kid who's very excited about like remaking their
Speaker 3: room during that time period, So something fun to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I would encourage people to check out our
Speaker 2: previous episode, which was Long Weekends with Little Kids that
Speaker 2: aired sort of at the end of this past summer
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four. We had lots of tips for
Speaker 2: getting through extended periods of times when kids are out
Speaker 2: of their usual school or daycare routines. Obviously that was
Speaker 2: aimed more at little kids, but certainly young elementary school
Speaker 2: age kids could be fairly similar, although you might not
Speaker 2: need to be quite as concerned with the post nap
Speaker 2: time as you would be with little kids, and certainly
Speaker 2: older kids might be able to entertain themselves a little
Speaker 2: bit in the afternoon, especially if you're going for a
Speaker 2: little downtime for the.
Speaker 4: Adults as well.
Speaker 2: But you know, if the there's also lots of break camps.
Speaker 2: Might be a little bit late to be looking for this,
Speaker 2: but perhaps there are still some places with last minute
Speaker 2: slots to have at least a day or two. And
Speaker 2: certainly if you need to get some work done over
Speaker 2: the break, you want to make sure that you have
Speaker 2: adequate care for that as well. I don't think any
Speaker 2: of my kids are excited to organize their rooms in
Speaker 2: the new year, Sarah. And I mean I don't know
Speaker 2: that I'm excited to organize anything. So I think that's
Speaker 2: a lot to put on kids.
Speaker 3: Only if they're excited, only if they're which some kids
Speaker 3: will be, especially when they got new toys and they
Speaker 3: want to have like space for them and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: So that episode that you mentioned is called the Long
Speaker 3: Weekend Survival Guide and I will definitely link to that.
Speaker 4: All right, sounds good?
Speaker 2: All right, Well, this has been an episode mostly about
Speaker 2: travel with children. Sarah interviewing Onka Raymond. We will be
Speaker 2: back next week with more on making work and life
Speaker 2: fit together.
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com
Speaker 3: or at the underscore shoebox on instead, and.
Speaker 2: You can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.
Speaker 2: This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please
Speaker 2: join us next time for more on making work and
Speaker 2: life work together