Speaker 1: Welcome to Episode one four with Joy Williams. And we
Speaker 1: were talking beforehand. I was like, okay, just hit record
Speaker 1: because I don't know you. That's a good question. We
Speaker 1: were talking. You and I were talking about you said
Speaker 1: you're toward, but you're touring whenever. Right when you have kids? Yeah,
Speaker 1: right when I had Poppy, I did it was I
Speaker 1: did that in the Civil Wars somehow. It was like
Speaker 1: found out I was pregnant and like on a fifty
Speaker 1: city tour like two days in and I was like, cool,
Speaker 1: that sounds fun. So I went on the road and
Speaker 1: played gigs till I was literally nine months pregnant and
Speaker 1: played Bonaroo and then had my son like a week later.
Speaker 1: You played nine months pregnant? Yeah, I sure did. What
Speaker 1: is it like? And this was a question that I
Speaker 1: had for Carrie Underwood was that she was singing her
Speaker 1: brains out eight to nine months pregnant. And I was like, man,
Speaker 1: don doesn't make you have to pee like it makes
Speaker 1: you have to do a whole lot of things, Bobby,
Speaker 1: But and peing is one of them. But and like
Speaker 1: hyperventilating is also one of them, because you as the
Speaker 1: baby grows, it just rests on your like all your
Speaker 1: organs and it's and they moved up coinci your ribs
Speaker 1: actually expand. So it's a weird thing to be um
Speaker 1: singing that pregnant. But I was like we had just
Speaker 1: said a minute ago. Somehow I tend to make people
Speaker 1: and uh and music all the same time, So it
Speaker 1: seems to work out that way. You like having babies, Um,
Speaker 1: I like the people. I don't enjoy the pregnancies. I
Speaker 1: don't have easy ones. No, I have like the twenty
Speaker 1: four hour a day sickness, like like throw up if
Speaker 1: I stand up kind of vibes. And I was doing
Speaker 1: that on on the road with Miles he's now six
Speaker 1: and a half. And then um, I was just like
Speaker 1: laid out with Poppy, she's now five months pregnant. It
Speaker 1: was like it was brutal, but again I was like, well,
Speaker 1: surely I'll get over this at some point in time.
Speaker 1: All this nausea. We ended up going in the studio
Speaker 1: and I was three and a half four months pregnant,
Speaker 1: and I thought, you know what, this all this nausea
Speaker 1: is going to make me really really honest. So how
Speaker 1: I sang. I just sat on a stool and saying
Speaker 1: because I was like, I can't. I literally can't try.
Speaker 1: There's no need to. I just need to show up
Speaker 1: and try and tell the truth was all this music
Speaker 1: and you know, and I I was like, screw trying
Speaker 1: to be perfect, because it doesn't it doesn't really exist anyways.
Speaker 1: So I just sat there and sang and we just
Speaker 1: pressed record and it was like full performances and it
Speaker 1: just felt right that way. I think I used to
Speaker 1: be used to be like, oh, it has to be
Speaker 1: just so, but it doesn't work that way from me anymore.
Speaker 1: Life's handed me my ask too many times, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. I'm such a big fan and until
Speaker 1: today we hadn't met. We had talked on Instagram a
Speaker 1: little bit. I think the first time that we had one,
Speaker 1: I think I was tagging your music. I'm a big
Speaker 1: fan of your music, um, Civil Wars and in the
Speaker 1: new stuff too, especially, And that was while Dancing with
Speaker 1: the Stars was happening, and we're like in your trailer,
Speaker 1: just like waiting, that's right. That's when the music started
Speaker 1: to recome out again. That's what I associate because I
Speaker 1: would listen to it. I was getting no sleep on
Speaker 1: that show, and bet you and I would play the
Speaker 1: Trouble with Wanting right, And I would play that over
Speaker 1: and over on a loop, just trying to get any
Speaker 1: sleep in my trailer because it would calm me down.
Speaker 1: So my music put you to sleep. I only listen
Speaker 1: to slow music. That's it. That's it, like all my music.
Speaker 1: I think my most played song right now for like
Speaker 1: the last two years is Everybody Hurts from r M.
Speaker 1: I've literally was just talking about that song today, like
Speaker 1: that's my tempo. Yeah, my, that's my speed too. I
Speaker 1: remember the where were you the first time you heard it?
Speaker 1: I remember seeing the video the first time, him walking
Speaker 1: across the top of the cars, and so I had
Speaker 1: to be Mike. If you look at what year that was,
Speaker 1: I'm thirty eight, so I was probably so, yeah, we're
Speaker 1: not too far away from each other age wise. And
Speaker 1: I remember going that's and I remember losing my religion
Speaker 1: and I was a fan, but I was like, this
Speaker 1: is the craziest video I've ever seen. So I remember
Speaker 1: watching it on tell of it. I don't remember where
Speaker 1: I was, but I do remember it seeing it. I
Speaker 1: remember sitting in my um. One of my best friends,
Speaker 1: her older sister, was like an R e M fan,
Speaker 1: just like freak fan and um like play just playing
Speaker 1: it over and over in her room. And I just
Speaker 1: remember laying on this like really terrible beige carpet and
Speaker 1: hearing that song and just being like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I feel like he wrote that song for me. I
Speaker 1: still feel like that song is written for me. I know.
Speaker 1: That's where music is so good is when it it's
Speaker 1: like it's that um, it's that connective thing. It doesn't
Speaker 1: even matter how old the song is. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: so many great songs like that in the history of music.
Speaker 1: But I just, man, I love that you mentioned it today.
Speaker 1: When was it for you that you heard a song
Speaker 1: or an artist and you went, oh, they're actually speaking
Speaker 1: for me, because John Mayer was the first one to
Speaker 1: do it for me. I was going to ask you
Speaker 1: that that's what John Mary would be for you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when I heard, um, what's the there's three or four
Speaker 1: songs from Continuum, what's the song I have downstairs? Now?
Speaker 1: My mind my mind is slept, and I have written downstairs. Yeah,
Speaker 1: stop this training. Thank you? Aren't you glad you have him? Know?
Speaker 1: What would you do without it? I have? And because
Speaker 1: John Mary's about our age and the lyric is, I'm
Speaker 1: so scared of getting older. I'm only good at being young.
Speaker 1: And the first time I heard, I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, that's how I feel. Like, like everything that
Speaker 1: I was doing, I was ahead of the curve doing it.
Speaker 1: But I thought, when I'm normal age, I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: be good at this anymore. I'm only good at it
Speaker 1: because I'm young. Do you think that's why you're such
Speaker 1: a like? It seems like everything you do you go
Speaker 1: so full on. It's amazing to me, like how much
Speaker 1: you're able to accomplish, and like what you are able
Speaker 1: to do, and like, have you always been wired that way?
Speaker 1: That's kind of you to say joy, but I don't.
Speaker 1: I'm not kissing your ass. I'm just saying, like you,
Speaker 1: I don't even know how you sleep, like you've actually
Speaker 1: known a lot. But I think it comes from having
Speaker 1: to survive as a kid. You know, I didn't have
Speaker 1: a mom. I have a dad. My mom was a
Speaker 1: drug addict and so I'm really young, right, yeah, and
Speaker 1: really young and she died in her forties. But I
Speaker 1: had to you know, work to eat at Yes, your hustle,
Speaker 1: that hustles like in your veins, normal and people be like,
Speaker 1: how do you do it? And I'm like, well, it's
Speaker 1: how do I not do it? Is maybe more of
Speaker 1: your question. And we were talking before you came in.
Speaker 1: You were like, man, when you're gonna slow it? And
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know how. Yeah, and I have
Speaker 1: to because I have a girlfriend. I'm not married. I like,
Speaker 1: I get quite lonely. That's why I listened to listen
Speaker 1: to That's why I listen to some songs that keep
Speaker 1: you company and so but I think that's what it is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but okay, what about you? You can't talk to? The
Speaker 1: question when was the first the first either song or
Speaker 1: artists that you heard, and you went, oh, not only
Speaker 1: do I like the music, but like that actually is
Speaker 1: my voice? God? I mean I was. I grew up
Speaker 1: in a really really conservative household, so like what I
Speaker 1: was able to listen to is really really regulated, which
Speaker 1: is why when I got my driver's license, I was like, hell, yes, um,
Speaker 1: But I would say that I remember this might sound odd,
Speaker 1: but I remember it hearing Billie Holiday saying for the
Speaker 1: first time and being like, oh my god, this, this
Speaker 1: amazing soul is coming out of my speakers, Like where
Speaker 1: did this person come from, Like what is her story?
Speaker 1: How do I like? I mean, I would I would
Speaker 1: spend hours trying to emulate how she's saying, which it's
Speaker 1: almost impossible to do. And like the lilt and the
Speaker 1: like the squeak and the cracks and the breaks, was
Speaker 1: like how she sang everything. Um, it just arrested me.
Speaker 1: And I know that that's not like a super cool
Speaker 1: I mean, I I think she's cool. I think she's amazing,
Speaker 1: but like it wasn't like an age appropriate, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. I was sixte or seventeen. It's not cool.
Speaker 1: It's really cool to be yeah, I mean, and I
Speaker 1: was like sucked into the vortex of boy bands, just
Speaker 1: like any other high school kid was too. But but
Speaker 1: like when I was home by myself, like I would
Speaker 1: put on Billie Holiday, I just felt like the ache
Speaker 1: of what she was singing, no matter if it was
Speaker 1: happy or sad, it was just like it always had
Speaker 1: this tinge of sadness and I just felt, I don't
Speaker 1: know somehow that that melancholy and telling the truth and
Speaker 1: it being like all kinds of like dysfunctional, and I
Speaker 1: mean the the like the song she's saying, they weren't Um,
Speaker 1: they weren't like always walks in the park, like she
Speaker 1: talked about really really terrible relationships and she I don't know,
Speaker 1: I just loved how ballsy she was, and then being
Speaker 1: so rebellious to sing something like strange Fruit was pretty
Speaker 1: life altering when I realized what that song was about. So, um,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I love ferocity, I love quiet rebellion,
Speaker 1: and I think that that's that's probably where where that
Speaker 1: first like hit me the first time with Billie Holiday?
Speaker 1: Where did your em come from? Where's my emo? Uh?
Speaker 1: I've kind of always been that way, but I think Okay,
Speaker 1: a black sheep of the family, um Blake, I would say,
Speaker 1: be like on the on the sort of like um
Speaker 1: astrological signs, etcetera, etcetera. If you're into that kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: I'm I am. I am, like, I'm halfway into that
Speaker 1: stuff can be halfway in I am. So I guess
Speaker 1: I think I think it's really fascinating. I'll just say that.
Speaker 1: And I'm a triple Scorpio, so like in multiple houses
Speaker 1: like my son Moon and all that stuff, I'm Scorpio.
Speaker 1: And so I guess apparently we're always we're always like
Speaker 1: going around in the dark and like lifting up every
Speaker 1: like what's underneath this rock and what's underneath this rock?
Speaker 1: So I've always kind of been that way. I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's the stars or if it's just um
Speaker 1: the way I was raised to I always I was
Speaker 1: always the kid that was like kind of taking the
Speaker 1: emotional temperature of everybody in my family. So I don't know.
Speaker 1: How about you. I don't know that I'm emo. I
Speaker 1: don't think you. I mean, I'm not terribly emo, how
Speaker 1: she says while she's wearing all black, I should take
Speaker 1: it back, Oh my god. And again, I'm so drawn
Speaker 1: to your music because it does feel very emo, at
Speaker 1: least to me. Emo in what way though? Emo? And
Speaker 1: there's always just an emotion to your voice and your lyric.
Speaker 1: It doesn't always have to be I'm going to lock
Speaker 1: myself in my closet. But nope, I haven't written that
Speaker 1: song either. Yeah, yeah, that doesn't have to be the
Speaker 1: emo side of it. But your music, I don't ever
Speaker 1: listen to your music and go in your music now
Speaker 1: or your music with Civil Wars and go oh well,
Speaker 1: that's just just just a fun song for the time
Speaker 1: to pass by. That's never happened to me. But the
Speaker 1: single one of you guys, and you know even Front Porch,
Speaker 1: which is is that the last one that you put out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not even out yet. It comes out, it comes
Speaker 1: out there, it's out. The song is out. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: sorry I was. I was like, she's lying, and I
Speaker 1: know it's out because I love to do it all
Speaker 1: the people like Honey that is on Spotify. Yeah, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: the record. Sorry when you say front Porch, I think
Speaker 1: because it's the title track to the album. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: song front Porch is also out. Play a little bit
Speaker 1: of this and so when I hear this, there's an
Speaker 1: emotion to everything that you do. That's why I ask.
Speaker 1: I don't again, I don't ever there's not a chumba
Speaker 1: womba in the mix of your songs. I think there
Speaker 1: should just only ever be one chumbawamba. Okay enough, but
Speaker 1: U but yeah, I don't know. I mean, I love
Speaker 1: I love the art of conversation. I love sitting across
Speaker 1: the table like this and hearing stories. And I think
Speaker 1: that's what makes music so special to me, is that
Speaker 1: you get the chance to tell a story and you
Speaker 1: have to be really, really concise you know, have you
Speaker 1: put the video out for that yet? It's so good.
Speaker 1: It's like, I know I've seen it. Yeah, I I
Speaker 1: messaged you because I don't ever watch anything early. But
Speaker 1: I'm such a big fan, dude, I said, we sent it.
Speaker 1: We sent it. I'm so glad you like it. It's
Speaker 1: so good. And I don't give a crap out video.
Speaker 1: I tell my friends and like, don't waste some money
Speaker 1: on a video that's amazing. Well, this was not a waste.
Speaker 1: I'm so I'm seriously so stoked about this music video
Speaker 1: coming up. When does it come out? Because by the
Speaker 1: time people hear this and maybe out, well it's not
Speaker 1: going to be out by the time. Maybe it's it's
Speaker 1: going to be right around the time. Well people listen
Speaker 1: for years, don't Yeah, I don't know. If I tell you,
Speaker 1: we have to kill you. But February it's going to
Speaker 1: be coming out in the spring. Yeah, okay, yeah, so listen.
Speaker 1: I can't tell you that weird people will listen to
Speaker 1: this thing for years and years. These podcasts are evergreen,
Speaker 1: So so no pressure, Bobby, I'm up. You know who
Speaker 1: messaged me about that's because I I don't put a
Speaker 1: lot of songs on my Instagram maybe a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks and I put that up I think last week,
Speaker 1: UM in a clip and Buzzby message me yeah, and
Speaker 1: he was like, I love this song. And I guess
Speaker 1: Emily Shackleton, yes, who writes for him. I wrote it
Speaker 1: with you, Yeah, and Liz Rose too. We sat we
Speaker 1: literally sat in UM at Lizz's house and it's like,
Speaker 1: there's like this mov there's mob room in her house
Speaker 1: with a big window. And it was nighttime and we
Speaker 1: showed up when we drank red wine and I was
Speaker 1: I was talking to her about you know, I come
Speaker 1: back from Venice Beach after making the record Venus, which
Speaker 1: is the one before this, and it was totally like
Speaker 1: a sonic experiment for me. I just had to get
Speaker 1: out of Nashville, had to get a way to clear
Speaker 1: my head and get out of town after the Civil
Speaker 1: Wars imploded and um, and plus my dad was passing
Speaker 1: away from cancer and at the time, and so I
Speaker 1: wanted to be closer on the West coast where he was.
Speaker 1: So I was like, well, move to l A and
Speaker 1: do that. UM. But after my dad passed away, it
Speaker 1: was kind of and I made the record. I was
Speaker 1: kind of like, I just want to go home, and
Speaker 1: it was weird. I'd never talked about Nashville as if
Speaker 1: it was home. That had always just been like I
Speaker 1: grew up here in California. But something changed when my
Speaker 1: dad passed, and I just was like I miss my
Speaker 1: I missed my people, and I missed my house. And
Speaker 1: so we came back and I started writing slowly but surely,
Speaker 1: you know, And when Liz and Emily were available to write,
Speaker 1: we sat in that room and I just said, you know,
Speaker 1: what I feel like in my life right now, what
Speaker 1: I'm what I've been going through is that, um, I'm
Speaker 1: really starting to understand that the simple things in life
Speaker 1: are sometimes the most beautiful ones. And I've spent so
Speaker 1: much of my life like looking ahead to whatever was
Speaker 1: next and then what's after that and what's after that?
Speaker 1: And I said, I really feel like what I'm learning
Speaker 1: is to like enjoy just simply where I am. And
Speaker 1: and that's like a bub in the you know, in
Speaker 1: the SuDS while I'm doing the dishes that has a
Speaker 1: rainbow in it, or like you know, like the the
Speaker 1: like hurricane that my house looks like because my kids
Speaker 1: have been playing and stuff like that, and and I said,
Speaker 1: so I think there's a simplification that I really feel
Speaker 1: like it's happening not only for me in my life,
Speaker 1: but I want I want to go back to a
Speaker 1: simpler sound than I did Venus. And I said, and
Speaker 1: I've been, you know, been talking about like, if I
Speaker 1: can't play it on the front porch, it's probably not
Speaker 1: for me. And Liz in her like salty voice, was
Speaker 1: just like, well, have you've written a song called front Porch?
Speaker 1: I was like no, And then it just flowed out.
Speaker 1: It was so easy to write. And those are like
Speaker 1: that you sometimes you have to wrestle the bear, but
Speaker 1: that one, it was just it just kind of flowed
Speaker 1: right out. Yeah, play a little bit more of that fun,
Speaker 1: come on back to the portch this new project. If
Speaker 1: three songs out, yes, I'll play one more. This is Canary.
Speaker 1: I mean these songs. I've played these songs so many times.
Speaker 1: I how do you kidding they're are? Because I keep
Speaker 1: about fifteen songs on my current playlist and I'll rotate
Speaker 1: them in an outlet, all three of these. But it's
Speaker 1: just like you you are my style of music. Well, thanks,
Speaker 1: like sing it slow, It's good well, it's like I
Speaker 1: think it's fun too. It's it's like it's like the
Speaker 1: French way, you know, it's like how do you how
Speaker 1: do you take a few things and like and really
Speaker 1: make it sing? And you know, I'm not I like
Speaker 1: listening to music that has like a ton of elements
Speaker 1: to it, but that's just the more the more stuff
Speaker 1: I add to the music I'm making, I feel like
Speaker 1: the less it means something at least to me where
Speaker 1: my voice somehow it just changes. So I don't know,
Speaker 1: it was I was just kind of like, all right,
Speaker 1: what happens if I just remove almost everything except like
Speaker 1: really really what's necessary and what's there? So it's it's
Speaker 1: like it's it's not just a singer songwriter record and
Speaker 1: that it's like just a guitar and vocal. You know,
Speaker 1: we have a lot of instrumentation, but the whole process
Speaker 1: in the in the time in studio with Kenneth Patt
Speaker 1: and Gale who produced it with me, Um, you know,
Speaker 1: I was, I was like, my requirement for all these
Speaker 1: players is that they be empathetic players, because like I
Speaker 1: just needs to be like smatterings. It doesn't need to
Speaker 1: be like just blazing up a track, and it was
Speaker 1: really fun in studio making the music. It was like
Speaker 1: I've never laughed harder. And we recorded fifteen songs in
Speaker 1: five days and it was like the most effortless experience,
Speaker 1: and it was it was just it was just so
Speaker 1: much fun. I'm talking a lot. I must you know
Speaker 1: what this is? What this is for? Oh? Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: this is this is what you get paid to do.
Speaker 1: You you mentioned your dad. Was he a pastor? He
Speaker 1: was what what denomination was it? He well, it's kind
Speaker 1: of an interesting thing, like he'd probably have been like
Speaker 1: under the moniker of like Presbyterian, but he he was ordained,
Speaker 1: so he would joke that he could marry and bury people. Um.
Speaker 1: But what he did was he actually he worked on
Speaker 1: Capitol Hill and then worked for IBM, and then got
Speaker 1: really disenchanted like with everything about all of that. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was a good human, Yeah, and he was just
Speaker 1: like I don't I don't want to do this anymore.
Speaker 1: And so what he ended up doing was he'd already
Speaker 1: had his ordination like a long time ago. So what
Speaker 1: he wind up doing was being the executive director of
Speaker 1: like a bunch of Christian retreat centers. So it was
Speaker 1: it was an interesting thing like grow I grew up
Speaker 1: in Santa Cruz, I was. I lived a couple other places,
Speaker 1: like in the Midwest and the East Coast and then
Speaker 1: but out to Santa Cruz before I was ten, And
Speaker 1: it is always like the weirdest paradox. I grew up
Speaker 1: in this like like faith based kind of retreat center,
Speaker 1: like in the middle of Santa Cruz County, which is
Speaker 1: just like like fly that freak flag, like like the
Speaker 1: smell of weed permeating every part, like tied all over
Speaker 1: the place. And I don't know, I feel like that
Speaker 1: was a really um fun way to grow up, but
Speaker 1: it was also kind of confusing at times. But um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, so my dad was my dad, Like uh,
Speaker 1: I didn't have a church that he was like the
Speaker 1: head of, but he he was in charge of like
Speaker 1: a hundred plus employees like at this conference and retreat center.
Speaker 1: Did you feel like a pastor of kid A thousand
Speaker 1: percent A thousand percent kid, Yeah, there's a pressure. And
Speaker 1: I had friends that were the preacher's daughters, your sons.
Speaker 1: Was that did you feel that? Yeah, I'm nodding on
Speaker 1: a podcast, Joy say yes, Um, yeah, I totally did.
Speaker 1: I mean it was it was sort of like, hey,
Speaker 1: everybody's watching, like like, don't suck this up, you know.
Speaker 1: And and I I think for a long time I
Speaker 1: kind of went by that whole like gold Star Moniker
Speaker 1: of like I will show you how great I can be.
Speaker 1: And you know, I think life has a funny way
Speaker 1: of of making you like check that at the door
Speaker 1: and um, and I think the Civil Wars was one
Speaker 1: of those one of those moments um for me too
Speaker 1: of just like, well, that didn't go nearly the way
Speaker 1: that I thought it was going to. But um, but
Speaker 1: you know what, I don't know, the more I go
Speaker 1: in life, the more I go, you know what, you
Speaker 1: can get hard and bitter about all that stuff. Um,
Speaker 1: when things don't go your way or when you lose,
Speaker 1: but or you can it can make you kinder. And
Speaker 1: that's that's what I'm that's at least what I want
Speaker 1: to hope that I can become more like no matter
Speaker 1: what happens to me, I feel like in the same
Speaker 1: you know kind of world that you speak of. It
Speaker 1: it's made me more empathetic and more understanding. And I
Speaker 1: don't know if I'm able to be kinder or not,
Speaker 1: but I'm more understanding. Yeah, that's a good way of
Speaker 1: saying that, Bobby. Yeah you've man, you've been through it.
Speaker 1: We've listen, We've we've all been through it. You know,
Speaker 1: we have our own crap in all different ways. I'm
Speaker 1: a big believer that my crap is any more important
Speaker 1: or different than anyone else's. But I think that there
Speaker 1: are parts that I can understand. And I don't think
Speaker 1: it makes me a better person. I don't even know
Speaker 1: if it makes me kinder. I just understand that struggle. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you get the pain. Yeah, you get the pain, that's
Speaker 1: for sure to geta And people may look and go,
Speaker 1: what a dick he doesn't even understand. Yeah. So I
Speaker 1: don't know that I'm a good person in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways, but I think i'm a wonderful person another
Speaker 1: And I think we're just right at this meeting. We're
Speaker 1: always trying to find that meter. Yeah, I think we're
Speaker 1: all just I think that's partly. I mean, that's funny
Speaker 1: that you say that, because I say a lot all
Speaker 1: we want to do is just be seen and appreciated
Speaker 1: and love for who we actually are, not the facade
Speaker 1: or like what we can give other people. It's like Hey,
Speaker 1: if you can see me and appreciate me, that's like
Speaker 1: a great starting point. And I feel like that for everybody,
Speaker 1: you know. I tell my son that that's how we
Speaker 1: like we get to approach life and just people in general.
Speaker 1: It is like there's always something you can learn from
Speaker 1: every single person you meet. And um, everybody just wants
Speaker 1: to be loved and seen and appreciated. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's funny you say, preachers Are you a preacher's daughter?
Speaker 1: Whose actually wrote a song on my record that's called
Speaker 1: preachers Daughter? And yeah, and and I think it's in
Speaker 1: a similar vein of like just wanting to be seen
Speaker 1: and known and loved and um and what that looks like.
Speaker 1: And that's hard sometimes in family to feel that, um,
Speaker 1: you know, putting the phone and dysfunction um that we
Speaker 1: all have. But I don't know. I think it's it's
Speaker 1: important to own where we are, you know. And and
Speaker 1: I think asking the questions it's really important as opposed
Speaker 1: to just like racing into some kind of like foe answer.
Speaker 1: So the one of my friends, I said, hey, Joy
Speaker 1: Williams coming over, and he was like, ask her if
Speaker 1: it's true. I guess there's I didn't know this. There's
Speaker 1: an urban legend that you learned to sing by hearing
Speaker 1: animals and you start to harmonize with animals. Um no,
Speaker 1: but I really want that to be true. I'm sure
Speaker 1: you've heard that. You haven't heard that Bobby who is
Speaker 1: your who are your friends? At someone in music and
Speaker 1: he said, he said, this is what I heard, because
Speaker 1: he said you as a kid, he would have walked
Speaker 1: through the woods and like birds would be, you know, charping,
Speaker 1: and that you would harmonize with the birds. And that's
Speaker 1: how your boy sounds like it is. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I love the story. They're not like Dr Doolittle, no
Speaker 1: meat snow white. No, I'm totally not. I wish I
Speaker 1: really wish I was. I mean, there's the only thing
Speaker 1: that's true about that is that I would walk through
Speaker 1: the forest. We were like poorest church mice when we
Speaker 1: lived in Michigan. Right when I was growing up in
Speaker 1: my my mom would uh take just get us out
Speaker 1: of the house. I think she was just like, I
Speaker 1: cannot handle my children, so we would just get out
Speaker 1: and go on nature walks. But it's actually my mom
Speaker 1: that taught me how to harmonize because she, um, she
Speaker 1: was a singer as well. But um but I really man,
Speaker 1: I should just I'm gonna keep it and I'm getting
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm going to go with this. And that's
Speaker 1: where Canary came from. In Low and Low those many
Speaker 1: years when I was working in the coal mines, I
Speaker 1: thought to myself, I'm gonna write a song about canaries.
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Speaker 1: dot com. All right, Um, why don't we talk? Because
Speaker 1: as a kid, I guess why did you start singing?
Speaker 1: Because you did Christian music for a while. There are
Speaker 1: things I didn't know. I don't know you'd want so
Speaker 1: many awards, like I guess I don't keep up with
Speaker 1: that stuff, want so many awards. I don't know you
Speaker 1: want all the double or any need. I won zero
Speaker 1: of Wikipedia because and I hate just doing the Wikipedia
Speaker 1: thing because it lies about me too. There's all kinds
Speaker 1: of crap wig, but is it not true? But what
Speaker 1: it does do is it gives you those graphs. And
Speaker 1: so I scrolled the graphs and I saw all the doves. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess I thought you want no once a bridesmaid
Speaker 1: or always a bridesmaid, never bride that one. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I got nominated and did I was in that genre
Speaker 1: for a long time. I mean I started at seventeen
Speaker 1: because it wasn't that long, but when you're not young,
Speaker 1: it can feel that long. But yeah, I just I
Speaker 1: felt like, um, I felt like my world view just
Speaker 1: started shifting a whole lot. I just couldn't keep doing it.
Speaker 1: So I actually asked out of my record deal at
Speaker 1: basically the peak of my career at that point, which
Speaker 1: is you can imagine how well that went over. Um,
Speaker 1: but I just couldn't do it anymore. So I actually
Speaker 1: left and sat on my couch for like a good
Speaker 1: solid six months and then worked at a friend's boutique
Speaker 1: in Green Hills, getting size, different sizes shirts for various
Speaker 1: country stars. Yeah. Yeah, I was working at a shop
Speaker 1: called Habit and Um, and I was selling ads for
Speaker 1: a music magazine and then got called back by some
Speaker 1: of my friends that were making music and asked if
Speaker 1: I could start writing for them, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I can do this. I do like this, and then
Speaker 1: got a pub deal and then I started writing jingles
Speaker 1: for TV and film And that's how that's that's where
Speaker 1: the seedbed of all the money that my husband and
Speaker 1: I and Nate were able to put into the Civil
Speaker 1: Wars because we fully funded that ourselves. And yeah, and
Speaker 1: and the rest. They say it's history. Okay, let me rewind.
Speaker 1: Could you said something that I want to go back to.
Speaker 1: You used to get shirts for country singers? Yeah, who
Speaker 1: would come into the store. Um I would um am
Speaker 1: I allowed to say this. I don't want to be like,
Speaker 1: I guess there's nothing they used to shop because they're
Speaker 1: like a hippo law. I don't know. I just like
Speaker 1: I remember Faith Hill would come into the store a lot.
Speaker 1: She was always really sweet. Reba came in one time. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was a bunch of there was a bunch of
Speaker 1: artists that would come through and imagine like imagine if
Speaker 1: you will, like you know, I've been on the road.
Speaker 1: I've done this for a while. Not in country obviously,
Speaker 1: but I'm sitting I'm sitting there being like in your
Speaker 1: total is just being like what is happening to my life?
Speaker 1: And it was twenty three but it was really good
Speaker 1: for me because I think I started so young that
Speaker 1: I was really used to that that sort of like um,
Speaker 1: the buzz of applause. I was really used to that.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize how much i'd kind of been addicted
Speaker 1: to that, and then it used to never done cocaine,
Speaker 1: but it was like it was like I think I realized,
Speaker 1: like I thought it was like a cocaine high when
Speaker 1: it was really just like a diet coke buzz and
Speaker 1: and it was really good for me to kind of
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, I'm alright if I don't do music.
Speaker 1: And then somehow, once I let it go, that's when
Speaker 1: it as you know, as they say, like once you
Speaker 1: let it go, it can come back to you somehow.
Speaker 1: So it's weird. I've had many different chapters of making music,
Speaker 1: you know, like faith based music and then leaving that
Speaker 1: and then like TV film music and then um, you know,
Speaker 1: um go into a songwriting camp. Um for that the
Speaker 1: sir Letic Brothers started for this band called Gloriana. And
Speaker 1: she winked at me when she said that you can't
Speaker 1: you caldn't see that, you know, I used to date
Speaker 1: Rachel that a little Bertie told me today actually um
Speaker 1: but um. And then it was like a different life,
Speaker 1: don't Yeah, I get it for sure. But and then
Speaker 1: it was like the Civil Wars happened, and then back
Speaker 1: to solo. So there's just been like lots of iterations.
Speaker 1: But I guess that's how life works, you know, you
Speaker 1: just don't quite know how it's gonna wind and bend.
Speaker 1: Did you miss the applause? I didn't realize how much
Speaker 1: I'd gotten used to it. So yeah, did you find
Speaker 1: your love on? Because I have found that, like I
Speaker 1: think on a stage when I do stand up or
Speaker 1: which is so brave of you, my god, it's all
Speaker 1: the same for any of us to go and expose
Speaker 1: ourselves and go please love me, because that's basically what
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm doing. It's like I'm walking out
Speaker 1: there and your heart just like and I'm just like,
Speaker 1: please love me, Bobby. But I think, yeah, whether it's
Speaker 1: a stage or not, don't you think? But I think
Speaker 1: I think for me, I've again like I've had when
Speaker 1: the Civil Wars ended, I've been called every name in
Speaker 1: the book, you know, I've like I've I've experienced the
Speaker 1: heights of applause and like the matching tattoos that I've
Speaker 1: gotten with you know, A level artists, and then I've
Speaker 1: gotten the I've gotten the like, oh my god, I
Speaker 1: can't believe that someone actually called me that they have
Speaker 1: no idea what they're talking about and so I think
Speaker 1: I remember someone saying at one point, if you believe
Speaker 1: your good press, you're gonna have to believe all you're bad.
Speaker 1: So I think I don't know. I was a lot
Speaker 1: more that way up to the ending of the Civil Wars,
Speaker 1: and then it was like, oh wow, kind of like
Speaker 1: the everything I've been working so hard to like like me,
Speaker 1: like me, like me, love me, love me, love me, Um,
Speaker 1: it backfired And and I'm still breathing, And that's really
Speaker 1: good to know. And I think it helped me UM
Speaker 1: move forward at least in a different way. But it's
Speaker 1: still it's really vulnerable to get up on stage, like
Speaker 1: you hope people like what you make, otherwise you don't
Speaker 1: have a gig. You know. It's like cooking as well.
Speaker 1: Like I think music is a lot like cooking. It's
Speaker 1: like it's fun to make it for yourself, but at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, it's a lot more enjoyable
Speaker 1: when it's shared and and and people are at the
Speaker 1: table and like digging in. You know that that feels
Speaker 1: a lot better to me, UM, But I can't control it.
Speaker 1: And I think that's that's maybe the part that I'm
Speaker 1: getting to is. I can't control it. All I can
Speaker 1: do is just show up and make what I make,
Speaker 1: not be too precious about it. Uh, take what I
Speaker 1: do seriously, but not take myself too seriously, and and
Speaker 1: just enjoy it. Like my god, if I'm not enjoying it,
Speaker 1: why would I keep doing this? This is an insane lifestyle,
Speaker 1: like a difference city every night, and like dragging my
Speaker 1: kids all around the country. And there's a lot that's
Speaker 1: great about it too, but but it's I think I've
Speaker 1: been learning to sort of like slough off. Hopefully I've
Speaker 1: been sluffing off the ship that I don't need anymore.
Speaker 1: I am allowed to swearing here okay, and here bathroom,
Speaker 1: so I speak French flute ly. Um yeah, so I
Speaker 1: think that that's what I've been learning these last few years.
Speaker 1: Um yeah. Where do you feel like you fall in
Speaker 1: line with that? Like, do you feel like you're still
Speaker 1: that's still like kind of like the like on the
Speaker 1: edge of like, I really need you to like what
Speaker 1: I'm doing right now. I feel sorry now I'm your psychologist.
Speaker 1: M I feel like a fraud, don't we all? Yes,
Speaker 1: we do, But I really like and I think I'm
Speaker 1: running just barely ahead of that. I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: committing crimes all over America. That's not really feel like.
Speaker 1: And eventually the cops are gonna catch that's oh, you
Speaker 1: can't sleepy. But I do feel like I don't really
Speaker 1: have a talent, Like I don't. There's nothing that you
Speaker 1: would look at me and go, he's really good at that?
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? I mean, are you actually being serious? Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm being absolutely seriously yes. Um, like I'm literally looking.
Speaker 1: I mean we're sitting here and I'm looking at two
Speaker 1: books that you've written. Yeah, but again that's just I've
Speaker 1: worked my way to those. I have friends. That is
Speaker 1: a skill. I think I learned it, so you're a
Speaker 1: quick learner. But it's also talent. So my fear is
Speaker 1: if I can't work, I don't have anything really. Have
Speaker 1: friends are great writers, They could take a year off
Speaker 1: and come back and write amazingly in a year. Have
Speaker 1: friends are great singers, are great things. And so for
Speaker 1: me it's I don't have that. All I have is
Speaker 1: and so I don't think I'm not good at anything.
Speaker 1: So I feel like a fraud all the time, all
Speaker 1: the time. Bobby, this is fascinating. I feel like we
Speaker 1: could like like that would be a whole other podcast.
Speaker 1: We can talk a and I only put these books
Speaker 1: up so when pictures are taking to this place that
Speaker 1: people see them where they buy them. This is this
Speaker 1: is key marketing. Yes, that's how I pay the bill. Yes,
Speaker 1: in your House is beautiful, so well done. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think I get it. I mean I think we
Speaker 1: all feel like if if every if people really knew,
Speaker 1: would they really like us? But you know a great
Speaker 1: singer right like you have? I am a singer. I
Speaker 1: mean I'm glad you think I'm a great singer. I
Speaker 1: love singing. I think you have the recognition to say
Speaker 1: you get a great You could walk on the street
Speaker 1: right now and open a case and seeing if people
Speaker 1: would give you money. If I walk down the street
Speaker 1: right now and pulled a microphone out what I do
Speaker 1: in this show, people be like, hey, idiot, why are
Speaker 1: you talking about microphone on the street? Dude? But you
Speaker 1: like the thing that I find fascinating about you is
Speaker 1: that you are literally like you have nine lives. It's
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like you're like I'm gonna go on
Speaker 1: a show and you know I'm gonna dance and like
Speaker 1: I'm gonna win that thing. And you do like I
Speaker 1: don't you say you like I don't have talent and
Speaker 1: I'm just the worst dancer. Now the second word dancer,
Speaker 1: but there are thirteen people are probably the twelve words dancer. Okay,
Speaker 1: but still you have this like tenacity about you that's
Speaker 1: so apparent and and it's and like I don't know
Speaker 1: you you. I think maybe that sense of like I'm
Speaker 1: a fraud might be what helps keep you humble because
Speaker 1: you do so much stuff. For sure, it keeps me humble,
Speaker 1: and it's not even humble, it keeps me normal is
Speaker 1: because I and I think that's why I relate to
Speaker 1: people that will listen to this podcast, will listen to
Speaker 1: my show, to my shows, is that I have what
Speaker 1: they have. Yeah, we like you're one of them one
Speaker 1: percenters has this great, great singing skill. Us normal folks
Speaker 1: don't really have anything dynamic about us. And so I
Speaker 1: think people root for me because I am them. Huh,
Speaker 1: And that's what I feel like. So I feel like
Speaker 1: a fraud a lot of til you ask what is it?
Speaker 1: It's people like you're so brave, Bobby, No, I'm scared.
Speaker 1: There's a difference. Yeah, but you still jump. That's the thing,
Speaker 1: because I have to jump because there's a big alligator
Speaker 1: behind me. It's like, I'm gonna die one of the
Speaker 1: two ways, right, So I'm gonna jump dynam blaze of glories.
Speaker 1: That that's kind of what it did for me. So awesome.
Speaker 1: I get it. But you're dying in a blaze of
Speaker 1: glory makes for a good story. Maybe I will die
Speaker 1: in a blaze of glory. It's not gonna happen anytime soon. Well, okay,
Speaker 1: it's not about me. You can feel free to ask whatever.
Speaker 1: But like, I only have like an hour with you, Oh,
Speaker 1: I know, So I want to talk all about Let's
Speaker 1: just listen to our music together. Let's play all of
Speaker 1: our songs, and I want to have a listening party.
Speaker 1: And when you plan, like, I like that one. I
Speaker 1: like that. I like that one, and I like that one.
Speaker 1: I would like that one. I like that one too.
Speaker 1: So you moved to Nashville. Yeah, how old were you
Speaker 1: while you moved to a teenager for high school? I
Speaker 1: graduated high school. I had to legally emancipate myself from
Speaker 1: my parents in order to sign my record deal. How
Speaker 1: they feel about that? They were fine? They were like,
Speaker 1: it's just a piece of paper. Um. Yeah, and moved
Speaker 1: out here when I was eighteen, had two bags, had
Speaker 1: two hundred fifty bucks in my pocket, dropped one bag
Speaker 1: off at my then manager's house, and um and hit
Speaker 1: the road for two hundred fifty days that year, and
Speaker 1: then hit the road for another two hundred and twenty
Speaker 1: days that next year. And um, it was literally singing
Speaker 1: with like Mike and like like tracks like on like
Speaker 1: on a disk, and talk about like jumping off a
Speaker 1: diving board. That's going to grow you up real fast,
Speaker 1: as is being on a bus with being the sole
Speaker 1: female on a bus. Um at eighteen with a bunch
Speaker 1: of dudes that will also grow you up quickquickly. I
Speaker 1: had friends. I have a couple of friends that were
Speaker 1: Christian artists for a while and they switched and they
Speaker 1: went secular. Yeah, And I would ask them like, hey,
Speaker 1: why did you change with one they said they could
Speaker 1: play more places. Yeah. Like they were like, really, what
Speaker 1: we could have somewhat the same message but played. But
Speaker 1: they also felt like that they were running out of
Speaker 1: things they could write about. Yeah. It's the only genre
Speaker 1: of music that's determined by lyrical content. Really, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: never thought of it because there are a Christian rapper,
Speaker 1: but you know, there are a lot of Christian types
Speaker 1: of music, but they're still considered Christians. Sure, sure, sure,
Speaker 1: I just I just felt like what I believe shifted
Speaker 1: so much I couldn't keep doing it. So it wasn't
Speaker 1: as much about you were in a box about what
Speaker 1: did feel that too, But it was also just like
Speaker 1: I've gotta i gotta get out of here, like and
Speaker 1: I'm going to do I mean to grab a few
Speaker 1: things and keep them in my backpack as I go,
Speaker 1: but a bunch of this stuff, like I just, um,
Speaker 1: it didn't feel like it resonated anymore with me. And
Speaker 1: I wanted the freedom to just write what I wanted
Speaker 1: to write about. And it's funny, like you know, writing
Speaker 1: writing a jingle for Oscar Myers was definitely an Oscar
Speaker 1: Meyer was definitely not my um like goal in life.
Speaker 1: But that was interesting that like doing that led like
Speaker 1: led for me to go down the path of writing
Speaker 1: for other people and then writing I felt like the
Speaker 1: Civil Wars, it was so much writing about the dysfunction
Speaker 1: of relationship and like the obsessive nature of relationships and
Speaker 1: um and so and now like moving through having been
Speaker 1: in that duo and writing those kinds of music. Now
Speaker 1: it's kind of like I like turning the gem so
Speaker 1: to speak, like about what does it look like to
Speaker 1: be human? And how does it? How does love work?
Speaker 1: How does it not work? Um? What does it look
Speaker 1: like to like admit when things are really terrible and
Speaker 1: then when things are actually like there there might be
Speaker 1: like a ray of hope and and um and just
Speaker 1: playing around. I play around on this record actually with
Speaker 1: some like religious um like uh, I guess wording like
Speaker 1: a religious verbiage, but I'm turning it kind of on
Speaker 1: its ear and um, it's it's fun to play with
Speaker 1: that stuff for me. The record comes out my third
Speaker 1: we mentioned that again. I want to play this with
Speaker 1: the jingle. Okay, here is here's you can set this up.
Speaker 1: This is the Oscar Meyer jingle that you wrote. Yes called.
Speaker 1: It doesn't get better than this. It doesn't get it.
Speaker 1: It doesn't get it to make you laugh. Have you
Speaker 1: heard in a while? No, this is I played every
Speaker 1: day when you're like brushing your teeth every morning. Yeah, Um,
Speaker 1: it's your sunshine wake up song. Um, you can really guy,
Speaker 1: he hates you so much I giggled because that I
Speaker 1: literally wrote it in an afternoon over the phone with
Speaker 1: with somebody in l A named Tim Meyers and um
Speaker 1: and and I got six digits for writing that song. Yes,
Speaker 1: I had zero clue, had zero clue at the time,
Speaker 1: but that was when like that was like the height
Speaker 1: of TV film, Like I don't know what you could
Speaker 1: gross like making back then. Um, but it's just so
Speaker 1: silly to me that like writing songs that like was
Speaker 1: backing Bacon and lunch Meat like became how I've how
Speaker 1: I paid my bills and like fronted the half of
Speaker 1: a duo that I, you know, my husband and I
Speaker 1: financially like got off the ground. It's just silly how
Speaker 1: life works. But no, it's I'm going to leave no, no,
Speaker 1: but it's really But it is funny because I just
Speaker 1: signed a deal and I think it'll come out next
Speaker 1: week with the General Insurance with Shack with the little
Speaker 1: guy the commercial you know that you know that he
Speaker 1: did and out of what I would never sign with
Speaker 1: someone that I didn't think it was good. Like at
Speaker 1: the point in my career now where I can I
Speaker 1: can almost pick the partners that I have. They've made
Speaker 1: so much money. See, you could afford to take a
Speaker 1: vacation right now. That's all I'm saying. I just went
Speaker 1: to wife for three days. How is that? I worked
Speaker 1: the whole time. It was American. I went in and
Speaker 1: tape American. Oh my god, you're like it was great.
Speaker 1: It was a vacation, vacation Like I went ahead to
Speaker 1: the radio show tape Idle and Mike went and he'd
Speaker 1: worked like an hour a day and go to the
Speaker 1: beach and then just surf and then yeah, then I
Speaker 1: would go work and try to mentor the kids. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you're pretty good at I'm all right, I'm okay,
Speaker 1: I mean love it. I just tell him, I tell
Speaker 1: him how to avoid being sucky. The title of your autobiography,
Speaker 1: how to avoid being Sucky. That was what we were
Speaker 1: going to go with, but it said went with bare bones.
Speaker 1: Yeah that worked too. That worked too. Let's I didn't
Speaker 1: realize as we get over to the Civil Wars. I
Speaker 1: didn't realize again because I don't follow the awards so much,
Speaker 1: that you guys have won so many freaking awards for
Speaker 1: and and not, and that that didn't shock me. The
Speaker 1: Grammys as much as the c m a S. Because
Speaker 1: I never thought of you guys, and I hope it's
Speaker 1: not an insult as a country duo. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: neither did we. And it when we got sort of
Speaker 1: welcomed into the fold, it was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: Like it was that moment where it's like they liked me,
Speaker 1: they really liked me. It was it was amazing to
Speaker 1: be invited into that community. And man, I lived in
Speaker 1: Nashville a long time but not really felt like I
Speaker 1: was in the fold of that. And we had a
Speaker 1: good time. But I mean we were definitely like, you know,
Speaker 1: we were the dark horses for sure. Um like when
Speaker 1: all the names are you know, being announced, and it's
Speaker 1: like clap clap, clap, clap clap, like up really award,
Speaker 1: and it's like our name got called and it would
Speaker 1: be like a lot less clapping because and no, no
Speaker 1: offense taken. It was just we weren't well known in
Speaker 1: that community. But but it would win. Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: sometimes no, I mean if you win once, you would win,
Speaker 1: that's a win. Yeah. Yeah, I suppose you want a couple, Um,
Speaker 1: we just got nominated. You never want I like these grids,
Speaker 1: and I think you guys want everything. I mean, I
Speaker 1: let's go with that. You want four Grammy, Yeah, you
Speaker 1: got you want the Best Folk Album, Best Folk Album, UM,
Speaker 1: Best Performance by a Duo or Group. I think we
Speaker 1: have here. I can look at my notes. I always feeling, yeah,
Speaker 1: you tell me because I'm not great one and then
Speaker 1: one for one for Safe and Sound that we wrote
Speaker 1: with Taylor for the Hunger Games, Barton Hollow for Best
Speaker 1: ball Album, Yeah, Best Country do our group before? Maybe
Speaker 1: this is where the country I'm thinking of the country?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you did win a Grammy for
Speaker 1: country for for Barton Hollow two thousand thirteen Best Songwritten
Speaker 1: for Visual Media for Safe and Sound. Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: two thousand fourteen Best Country from This Valley. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: think that's what it was when I saw country in
Speaker 1: the awards, because I did again, was a fan. Never
Speaker 1: thought of you guys country yet neither did we. And
Speaker 1: it wasn't that we didn't want to be. It's just
Speaker 1: we we didn't think that we actually like classified under
Speaker 1: the qualification of it. I mean we were in the
Speaker 1: running with like a Little Big Town for some of
Speaker 1: those and UM for the group duo performance, and and
Speaker 1: we were like, well, surely they're going to get it,
Speaker 1: so it was. We always felt surprised. I always felt
Speaker 1: surprised anytime our name actually got called so um, but
Speaker 1: I'm glad. I'm glad it did. They look nice on
Speaker 1: my shelf and they're a good memory. Where do you
Speaker 1: keep on? Um? We have a listening room in our
Speaker 1: house that is um, there's like this old like flannel
Speaker 1: looking very like Victorian looking swing, um, like almost looks
Speaker 1: like a porch swing, but it's inside UM. And then
Speaker 1: a whole wall of vinyl. The innate is obsessed with
Speaker 1: like records, and then we have a record player, and
Speaker 1: then there's like where the vinyl actually should go, because
Speaker 1: now it's just like overflowed onto the floor where it's
Speaker 1: now stacked. But um, there's for sort of like Cubbies
Speaker 1: where you would stuck vinyl, but instead it's just prominently
Speaker 1: placed and it's it's it's crazy to look up and
Speaker 1: see those. It feels like an other lifetime. I go
Speaker 1: to yeah, thousand present. So okay, let's talk about the formation.
Speaker 1: You mentioned that you were able to make money to
Speaker 1: actually finance at least the start of the Civil Wars,
Speaker 1: So just kind of tell me that the birth of
Speaker 1: the duo at that writing camp for um, for the
Speaker 1: sir Letic Brothers trying to get a radio single for
Speaker 1: a particular groups. Um, you can say, Gloriana, you write
Speaker 1: anything for them. We did, but they didn't, I mean
Speaker 1: not that they cut yeah yeah, um yeah. And so
Speaker 1: we were in we were in a writing session and
Speaker 1: it was almost like drawing straws. They were like, okay,
Speaker 1: you you, you go in this room and right you
Speaker 1: you and you go in this room and right you
Speaker 1: union and then we'd like switch like it'd be like
Speaker 1: two hour rites and then switched to like a writing
Speaker 1: camp old school and um, first right of the day
Speaker 1: was John Paul and and uh and a guy named
Speaker 1: Greg Becker and and I just felt like i'd you know,
Speaker 1: met a kindred spirit in John Paul and just the
Speaker 1: writing was so easy and like we just started harmonizing
Speaker 1: and it was it was just like I remember going
Speaker 1: home and telling Nate like I think I met somebody
Speaker 1: that I'm supposed to make music with, and you know,
Speaker 1: and then like cuts you. Like a few months later,
Speaker 1: we're all in our Nates in my black Honda Element
Speaker 1: like driving down to Eddie's Attic and Decatur where John
Speaker 1: Mayer would play back in the day and like recording
Speaker 1: like the live board tape, recording that and then just
Speaker 1: being like, why don't we just put it out. Let's
Speaker 1: just see what happens, and then being like, wouldn't it
Speaker 1: be cool if it got listened to, like fivemessbod be
Speaker 1: so rad And then within the first week it had
Speaker 1: like twenty five thousand listens and it just kept growing
Speaker 1: and then we put out an EP and um, you
Speaker 1: know a song got put on Grey's Anatomy in a
Speaker 1: particular like you know, near the end, like the kind
Speaker 1: of the big placement. Yeah, that was one of the
Speaker 1: first somebody that actually has influence. Yeah, thanks were pretty good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so. I mean it's I can can tend
Speaker 1: to be a blur looking back at that, there was
Speaker 1: so much happening all the same time. Um, so poison
Speaker 1: and Wine plays on Grayes Anatomy. Yeah, and it was
Speaker 1: like here we go. You remember watching it go on?
Speaker 1: Holy crap I do. And I've had other songs like
Speaker 1: the Oscar Ryer jingle you know, and it was and
Speaker 1: I've had other solo music of mine in that whole
Speaker 1: era also get on Grays. So I had had a
Speaker 1: relationship with the TV film supervisor for that show, and
Speaker 1: and but they came, they came, I guess to discover
Speaker 1: that music on their own and and and put it
Speaker 1: into It's been really fun even now to see people
Speaker 1: be like, oh wait, okay, so I used to listen
Speaker 1: to you over here and then and then I discovered
Speaker 1: the Civil Wars, and then I discovered it was you
Speaker 1: like that that same girl I listened to. It was
Speaker 1: the same girl it's in the Civil Wars. And then
Speaker 1: I'm hearing that now her people are discovering the new
Speaker 1: songs on Spotify and they're like, oh wait, that's the
Speaker 1: girl from the Civil Wars, because nobody knew my name,
Speaker 1: like when I was in the Civil Wars. So like
Speaker 1: Joy Williams is not like that. That's not like a
Speaker 1: like a one and done. People understand that that, you know,
Speaker 1: that was half. I was half of that um in
Speaker 1: terms of notoriety. But it's an interesting thing having had
Speaker 1: that kind of notoriety and then to move into another
Speaker 1: season where it's not starting over at all. But I
Speaker 1: have so many different chapters of making music that there's
Speaker 1: like kids who grew up listening to me making my
Speaker 1: church music, and then you know, people who knew the duo,
Speaker 1: and then people discovering the music for for the first
Speaker 1: time now with what I'm making for their album Front Porch.
Speaker 1: So it's it. There's so many different chapters. How would
Speaker 1: you two decide who's saying what? That's what I would think, like,
Speaker 1: I would always want to be wanted this thing to
Speaker 1: freaking leave. Um was it? Was it? Ever? It was
Speaker 1: never contentious about that until later. But um, like I
Speaker 1: think I think for me, it just my memory of
Speaker 1: it is that I mean, I love to harmonize, so
Speaker 1: that just came so easily because you do exactly me
Speaker 1: and the squirrels and um yeah. So it was like
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times we'd come in to
Speaker 1: a songwriting session and it would be like, hey, I
Speaker 1: just watched this documentary you know, called Grey Gardens, and
Speaker 1: I really want to let's let's write about that. And
Speaker 1: it just depended on the day, like who would end
Speaker 1: up taking the lead, Like if I found the melody
Speaker 1: to something, that would generally be like I would take
Speaker 1: the lead because that's the key that we had started in.
Speaker 1: So we it was pretty fluid until it wasn't. What
Speaker 1: was it like watching the crowds grow insane because it
Speaker 1: was insane because you guys weren't together like twenty years.
Speaker 1: It does all happened relatively quick in the live span. Yeah,
Speaker 1: within five years time. Yeah, yeah, I mean it was
Speaker 1: I remember we were on the road with another indie
Speaker 1: act and the live at Eddie's Attic came out, and
Speaker 1: which was the that board tape. I was just mentioning
Speaker 1: and and we were going to cities we've never played,
Speaker 1: and we were like first up and we would play
Speaker 1: and people would be singing along and we've never been like,
Speaker 1: we had nothing out besides that, and we've never been
Speaker 1: to that city. And we watched that happened time and
Speaker 1: time and time again until the person that was like
Speaker 1: I'm supposedly like meant to close that the show was like,
Speaker 1: why don't let's switch and that happened yeah, And and
Speaker 1: I was I was like, what was this crazy? And
Speaker 1: then getting the phone call that Adele wanted to take
Speaker 1: us on the road that was that was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god. And we've gotten the call like hey, come
Speaker 1: play Leno, Hey, come play Letterman. Hey we're over in
Speaker 1: the UK. Jules Holland wants you to play, and um,
Speaker 1: and then getting the phone call that Adele was a
Speaker 1: fan and wanted us to go on the road with her,
Speaker 1: and us doing two tours with her, and like the
Speaker 1: crowds just continued, and then writing with Taylor and we've
Speaker 1: been friends, um and then getting to you know, make
Speaker 1: music like that. It was just it was this. It
Speaker 1: was lightning in a bottle. It really was. It was
Speaker 1: kind of that classic phrases lightning in a bottle. But
Speaker 1: gotta be careful with lightning in a bottle because that
Speaker 1: can it can go away just as quickly as it came.
Speaker 1: Did you guys play Jewels Halling? They've like, I've an
Speaker 1: approached to kind of redo that show here, Really, what
Speaker 1: do you think? I don't think I have the skill
Speaker 1: set to do what Jewels does musically, like I play,
Speaker 1: but he's proficient. He can sit down and really play.
Speaker 1: And so BBC said, hey, we want to remake the
Speaker 1: Jewels hall On show. We want you to be the
Speaker 1: host and for those who don't know Jewels, he's talk
Speaker 1: show versus and a musician and they'll sit down with artists.
Speaker 1: And I like, I want to do a talk show,
Speaker 1: but I don't know if I could do what he does. Um,
Speaker 1: but I'm a big fan of what Jewels does. And
Speaker 1: so when you say that, and I spent so many
Speaker 1: hours just watching his show because they were like, I
Speaker 1: want to recreate this in America, and I know they
Speaker 1: went to another artist here and said, hey, who has
Speaker 1: much bigger skill set? About how about bringing it over?
Speaker 1: I don't want to run that thing, but it's like, um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I'm a big Jewel's Holling fan and rarely
Speaker 1: doesn't want to bring up Jels Holland Yeah. I mean
Speaker 1: it's in the UK. It's an institution and I and
Speaker 1: I remember like watching it and just being like, man,
Speaker 1: I want to play that one day and then getting
Speaker 1: to and it was like Tony Bennett was on it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was like it was crazy, like the names that
Speaker 1: were there. I was like, what am I doing here?
Speaker 1: From act to act like you're all you're all like
Speaker 1: it's yeah, you're literally in the round and it's and
Speaker 1: it's almost like it's it's almost like, um, Tony Bennett
Speaker 1: next to Arctic monkeys, next to I mean like a
Speaker 1: country act. Um, it was Laura Marlene and it was
Speaker 1: Tony Bennett and um, crap, I'm forgetting the other one.
Speaker 1: Please forgive me anyways, Um, but it was great. I
Speaker 1: like sat over to the side and had a conversation
Speaker 1: with Tony Bennett about creating and painting and and he
Speaker 1: was just like the most fabulous human being. I was like,
Speaker 1: what is happening to my life right now? You know?
Speaker 1: It happened so fast? Are you so good at what
Speaker 1: you do? And I'm not kidding, I'm not being facetious.
Speaker 1: Are you so good at what you do that you
Speaker 1: don't get nervous doing it anymore? No? I always get nervous. Really, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's an indication that I care. I absolutely agree with that.
Speaker 1: Now maybe not nervous. Okay, let me rephrase this, Okay,
Speaker 1: but let me answer and then for a second, and
Speaker 1: then if I still have an answer, that let me know,
Speaker 1: because I would say that. Um, I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: in a whole new chapter again, Like I'm I'm like
Speaker 1: going back to music that um is more stripped down,
Speaker 1: more roots, more maybe akin to what people are familiar
Speaker 1: hearing me having been in the Civil Wars, but it's
Speaker 1: a new iteration. And so I think, I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know how to do this, but how do I
Speaker 1: do this now? So that's It's like I know how
Speaker 1: to be present. Um, I know how to um sing
Speaker 1: when my voice is tired. Um, you know, I know
Speaker 1: how to sing when I've had three hours of sleep
Speaker 1: and a crying baby in the middle of the night
Speaker 1: on a bus. You know I can do those things. Um.
Speaker 1: I know how to just be like you know, you
Speaker 1: guys don't even know what city. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: and and just like let down, so to speak. But
Speaker 1: I always get nervous. But are you nervous that people
Speaker 1: won't like what you're doing? Or you're nervous for example,
Speaker 1: like if you go on leno or on a map,
Speaker 1: would you get more nervous as the stage got bigger?
Speaker 1: Or do you get more nervous at the stage gets
Speaker 1: it's a new stage. I think it's new. I think
Speaker 1: it's new. It's new. I mean I remember playing Austin
Speaker 1: City Limits when I was in the in the duo,
Speaker 1: and it was people and that yeah, that yeah, that
Speaker 1: we're there watching that our set, and I just thought,
Speaker 1: we just have to go out and do what we do.
Speaker 1: We do this all the time. We would we would
Speaker 1: play he did yeh, that's right, right, that's right. And
Speaker 1: I was a big fan. So I don't know how
Speaker 1: many years you played it, but I saw you guys
Speaker 1: one year for sure, we only played well then I
Speaker 1: was there. I was that guy. You were that dude
Speaker 1: were there, We were there. I knew it was you. Yeah. Um.
Speaker 1: I think it's just you just do what you do.
Speaker 1: It's the stage gets bigger, it's it's a little bit
Speaker 1: more like uh, I still always will try and find
Speaker 1: someone's eyes, you know, it's just more options. When the
Speaker 1: when the crowd gets bigger, did you have a fear
Speaker 1: as they got bigger? Again, I'm gonna project a lot
Speaker 1: of my fears onto you, because I feel like we're
Speaker 1: a bit similar in some ways. Did you have a
Speaker 1: fear that when I got bigger, you had to take
Speaker 1: care of more people, and that if I got smaller,
Speaker 1: you couldn't take care of those people anymore? I think
Speaker 1: the getting bigger part. I looked around at one point
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, we were employing this many
Speaker 1: people and the people I care about, And so when
Speaker 1: the duo like imploded the way that it did, I
Speaker 1: slipped around. I was like, oh my god, all these
Speaker 1: people that have invested their time and like we're like
Speaker 1: it's their salaries and all of that stuff. It was
Speaker 1: such a heartbreak, but I'm glad to say that, Um,
Speaker 1: I've remained friends but with you know, almost everybody UM
Speaker 1: in that era. Um, with the exception of a few.
Speaker 1: But for me, it's the have all. It's all my friends,
Speaker 1: like all my show, I have like eight or nine people. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: and you're super loyal as well, Like my people have
Speaker 1: be on me forever. I know which is rad and
Speaker 1: so I'm like, man, if I go backward, I mean,
Speaker 1: I've put a lot of that pressure on me that
Speaker 1: I can't go backward because I've these I've uprooted people
Speaker 1: and moved them with you, so as as just gotten bigger.
Speaker 1: I think the pressure has i' masked that I have
Speaker 1: to keep it at least the same and hopefully bigger
Speaker 1: because I want them to have better lives. Yes, I
Speaker 1: totally get that, And I've had a lot of conversations
Speaker 1: with other artists and people in various industries that when
Speaker 1: they do well, they have that same they have that
Speaker 1: same exact feeling. Today I had a little bit of
Speaker 1: pride as Mike over here was wearing a jacket from
Speaker 1: Nordstrom and very poor Mike was my intern. Mike was
Speaker 1: my phone screener, like got Mike was eating top ramen
Speaker 1: just to make things, make ends meet. The guy came
Speaker 1: through the struggle the struggle was and said, what's up
Speaker 1: with that jacket? I like that jacket and it goes.
Speaker 1: I got it from Nordstrom. I was like, who are you?
Speaker 1: The fact that you even in Nordney? What was it like?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it was so much fun. I'll never
Speaker 1: forget the first time because we hadn't met her before
Speaker 1: we literally went on the road. So we were sound
Speaker 1: checking and she came. She came up. She was at
Speaker 1: the top floor. She had her makeup the cape like
Speaker 1: makeup hair cape like when you go to the salon
Speaker 1: on half her hair and curlers the other half not.
Speaker 1: She was smoking a cigarette and um and she yelled.
Speaker 1: She was, oh my god, oh my god, you're finally here.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you're here. And it was like instant awesome,
Speaker 1: Like she just is instantly awesome. And but I felt
Speaker 1: I felt nervous. And there was kind of a distance
Speaker 1: that we was sort of had with like the amount
Speaker 1: of people on the road, and the tour was kind
Speaker 1: of bigger and UM, but she hadn't really exploded to
Speaker 1: the degree that she was just like right on the
Speaker 1: precipice of UM. But day two, the show three, get
Speaker 1: back Show Show three, she said, let's let's get dinner
Speaker 1: on an off day, and so we did. We got dinner,
Speaker 1: and I tried to keep up with Adele. She doesn't
Speaker 1: so much anymore, but legendary. Oh my god. I thought
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that we were a nice restaurant, you
Speaker 1: know where like then your drink never fully gets empty
Speaker 1: before they bring you a new one. UM. But I
Speaker 1: was told later UM, that I had had like eight
Speaker 1: Gin and Tonics. You didn't realize you were no terrible idea.
Speaker 1: I wound up getting wheelchaired out of the We ate dinner,
Speaker 1: and then I vaguely remember going back to her hotel
Speaker 1: and hanging out in the lobby because we were having
Speaker 1: so much fun, and all of a sudden, it just
Speaker 1: like hit, It just hits so hard. UM, and I
Speaker 1: wound up being wheelchaired out of the four Seasons and
Speaker 1: sure was UM. And then um uh somebody had recorded
Speaker 1: the experience UM that was on tour with us, and
Speaker 1: it was on the projector when I went to sound
Speaker 1: check the next day and was laughing so hard in
Speaker 1: between needing to like really really vomit, and both Adele
Speaker 1: and I had like buckets side stage that next night.
Speaker 1: But after that we were like we were fast friends
Speaker 1: and we stayed friends. And then on the last night
Speaker 1: of tour, we got matching tattoos and um and she
Speaker 1: she gave me a bottle of gin jerk just to
Speaker 1: rub it in. But what tattoos did you get with
Speaker 1: three dots on our left wrist? Oh? That's what I
Speaker 1: just saw, that three dots on the left wrist. It's
Speaker 1: the ellipsus that just means to be continued. And we
Speaker 1: all just felt like there is tattoo. Yeah, there was
Speaker 1: a lot. There was a lot happening in all of
Speaker 1: our lives at that time, and and we thought that
Speaker 1: would be a good thing. I was her first tattoo,
Speaker 1: or she says her first time, but there has since
Speaker 1: been more. I've not added as many as she has
Speaker 1: on my body. You've got a couple and I just
Speaker 1: got imagining one that says mirrorble searan and I got
Speaker 1: we one way that's red. Yeah. We were like, well, first,
Speaker 1: she never thought we were gonna win that show. I now.
Speaker 1: I was like, I can figure things out, like bear
Speaker 1: with me, Like, I don't know if we're gonna win,
Speaker 1: but we're gonna get far. And I said, if we win,
Speaker 1: we have to get match tattoos, just throwing, and she
Speaker 1: said yes, and then we said it on the air.
Speaker 1: So then we got him, but we didn't get the
Speaker 1: actual mirrorball, just got the words mirrorball. Yeah, I'm curious,
Speaker 1: like what, like, whose idea was it to get mirrorball? Well,
Speaker 1: it was mine, but I made her think it was hers,
Speaker 1: so I didn't really did it looked like look like
Speaker 1: we were driving into a city like a like a
Speaker 1: water tower whenever you drew the actual mirrorball. So I'd
Speaker 1: suggested a few things and really highlighted the world. And
Speaker 1: then like a week later, she was like, you know
Speaker 1: what I was thinking? And I was like, what tell me?
Speaker 1: I knew where she was going to I think, was
Speaker 1: youoot the words? I was like, you know what a
Speaker 1: great idea. That's a good idea. And I let her
Speaker 1: have all of that because if it didn't turn out good,
Speaker 1: I wanted to be her fault. Yeah it's on you
Speaker 1: know it. This is my grandmotherhoo adopted me so that
Speaker 1: my mom Oh I got it. Yeah, and then that's Arkansas. Yeah, dude. Um,
Speaker 1: rumor is you're you, at some point want to run
Speaker 1: to be governor of Oh yeah, there's not rumber. I
Speaker 1: will be governor of Arkansas. I'll probably doesn't you will
Speaker 1: go for it. I don't listen. If I can't want
Speaker 1: a dance show, I can't want anything. Is dancing and
Speaker 1: politics are pretty much the same thing. Just act like
Speaker 1: you know what you're doing and act like you're enjoying it.
Speaker 1: If people will be like, I vote for you, shake hands, kids, babies,
Speaker 1: and it's you. So I don't. I mean, skuy's the limit? Dude? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Once I guess about a year and a half ago, Um,
Speaker 1: I what's it going? I'm going to run for governor
Speaker 1: of Arkansas. And the real governor of Arkansas was starting
Speaker 1: to be annoyed by the fact that all the press
Speaker 1: was covering that I may run for the governor of Arkansas.
Speaker 1: And so he calls me and says, Bobb, why don't
Speaker 1: you come to the Governor's mansion now for me. I
Speaker 1: grew up in a town of seven hund people, Mountain Pine, Arkansas.
Speaker 1: That was a huge deal. There are two people that
Speaker 1: I would look at as a kid and think they
Speaker 1: were hugely famous, the Governor and Ned probably the weather
Speaker 1: man and Little Rock. Yes, and the Governor called me,
Speaker 1: and so I go and myke all friends time Lindsay.
Speaker 1: We go and we drive a little Rock and I'm
Speaker 1: freaking out, like I've done some cool stuff, but I'm
Speaker 1: jaded by this whole thing. Now. Well you've seen a lot, yes,
Speaker 1: and and and again. I don't care about famous people
Speaker 1: so much because it's just people. It's just people, right, So,
Speaker 1: but it's a freaking governor of Arkansas. Yes, I'm different
Speaker 1: with him. This is the coolest thing. I go in
Speaker 1: and I didn't know he was throwing a party for me,
Speaker 1: and they are like twelve people on the table. I
Speaker 1: want the menu. It's like you can't eat me, but
Speaker 1: I know. I was like, wow, this sounds really and
Speaker 1: especial guests Lindsay l her name was on there. So
Speaker 1: we have this dinner. Everybody's like standing up saying and
Speaker 1: I'm like, what is happening. It's like Twilight Zone. I
Speaker 1: bet so He's like, hey, can I talk to you?
Speaker 1: Is he like, hey, can you not. Yeah he was.
Speaker 1: He was for real or was he just kind of
Speaker 1: being I wanted to know, Well, yeah, because you're you're
Speaker 1: tour to forced dude. He wanted to really know. And
Speaker 1: I said, you know, I'm not going to run yet
Speaker 1: with him because he only had two terms. Anyone that
Speaker 1: like this year you want to again, And I wasn't
Speaker 1: gonna win, but I would have really been annoying, right,
Speaker 1: and again, who knows what everything has happened? Who knows?
Speaker 1: And so but we made a couple of deals and
Speaker 1: I got to see firsthand, made a couple of deals.
Speaker 1: Made a couple of deals in the back room that
Speaker 1: sounds is legal. One of Yeah, isn't everything legal in politics?
Speaker 1: One of them was that he would write in my book.
Speaker 1: And he wrote a thing in my book. My last
Speaker 1: books all about failure. That's all anyone could write about.
Speaker 1: So he wrote about his biggest failure. And so another
Speaker 1: one I can tell you off the air. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that was really cool for me to to go and
Speaker 1: do that. That's awesome to go. But I don't know
Speaker 1: how I got over to this. You know what was
Speaker 1: annoying to me at one point. I'm a huge Kyle
Speaker 1: Cubs fan. I'm gonna give you an analogy here. I'm
Speaker 1: a huge Chole Cubs fani. When they won the World Series.
Speaker 1: That was so annoyed with everybody who became Chico Cubs
Speaker 1: fans because he felt like it was I've been through
Speaker 1: all the crap. I've been a Cubs fans, get it.
Speaker 1: Whenever that song came out with Taylor, I was so
Speaker 1: annoyed people that became fans of Civil Wars. I was
Speaker 1: so annoyed because all of a sudden, everybody loved him.
Speaker 1: You got of the favorite band, and I was like,
Speaker 1: you guys, suck you got. I was a fan because
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, everybody was all on the
Speaker 1: Civil Wars. And for about a month, I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it now that everybody knows, this was a big thing
Speaker 1: for you guys. It was. It was like it exposed
Speaker 1: you to so many people that may not have searched
Speaker 1: for even your type of music. Absolutely absolutely, And I
Speaker 1: mean you know the timing of the Civil Wars coming
Speaker 1: out too, It's like, who had any idea that like
Speaker 1: Mumford and Sons in that whole kind of folk like
Speaker 1: revival was going to come. Nobody knew I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: We didn't write knowing that that was going to happen,
Speaker 1: but um, yeah, I mean we were we were playing
Speaker 1: a gig in l A. And Taylor texted me and
Speaker 1: we we'd met, you know, become friends, and she was like, hey,
Speaker 1: are you in town? I think you're in town. Checked
Speaker 1: out your tourist schedule. You're in town, right. I was
Speaker 1: like yeah. She's like I want you to come right
Speaker 1: with me. Um, and I was like, okay, well we
Speaker 1: gotta we got a gig tonight. And so she's like,
Speaker 1: it's okay, we can write it in like three hours.
Speaker 1: And so we went over to t bam Burnett Studio
Speaker 1: and um and literally wrote it in two hours, recorded
Speaker 1: the recorded what you hear the vocals like all in
Speaker 1: one room and UM and that was that. So when
Speaker 1: it comes out Monster movie with a monster artist, yeah,
Speaker 1: from a monster book series that I was obsessed with
Speaker 1: it and that's a whole different days. I know, you
Speaker 1: and I get nerd out later loved it. I mean
Speaker 1: that did that kind of pivot you guys commercially. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think it did. What was amazing was,
Speaker 1: um was Taylor and Adele. You know those things were,
Speaker 1: and all the late nights starting to come, it was
Speaker 1: you know, you could just we could just start seeing
Speaker 1: the snowball effect happen. Um. So that was so crazy.
Speaker 1: I got to do so many things that I'd always
Speaker 1: hoped to do as an artist, and meet so many
Speaker 1: people that I always you know, looked up to, and
Speaker 1: have a lot of really good memories and take those
Speaker 1: memories with me. You know, it was so painful when
Speaker 1: the duo ended, and it was abrupt, and it was
Speaker 1: it was really hard. But but I think now, you know,
Speaker 1: with making music now, Um, you know, it's not like
Speaker 1: I'm going to pretend I wasn't like ever that I
Speaker 1: didn't never do any of that. Like, it's really it's
Speaker 1: really important for me. It's fun to be nostalgic about it.
Speaker 1: Um in the ways that it brings me a lot
Speaker 1: of joy and how many people enjoyed the music and
Speaker 1: connected with it and um and frankly allows me the
Speaker 1: ability to keep making music now. So um, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't really know how we got. I was annoyed with
Speaker 1: Civil Wars fans. Civil Wars fans just oh yeah, just
Speaker 1: because you don't even real fans shut up. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: What's funny is that you you talk about Chicago Cubs,
Speaker 1: but I got married to a Boston Red Sox fan
Speaker 1: in two thousand four, so which it was like, you know,
Speaker 1: that was the year. It was after eight six years,
Speaker 1: you know. So I'm I'm like laughing about you, you know,
Speaker 1: joking about the fair weather ends, and I'm like, I
Speaker 1: probably would have been one of them, if you could
Speaker 1: have considered me one of them, because I was like
Speaker 1: San Francisco Giants fan and then all of a sudden
Speaker 1: married into like Red Sox family for like multiple generations
Speaker 1: and was sitting next to my husband wearing like four
Speaker 1: Red Sox shirts and all the house, Yeah, I'm married in, married,
Speaker 1: I did, I'm married in. Then you guys, you guys
Speaker 1: put out a free download and you're done. The civil
Speaker 1: wars are done. We put out a free download, and
Speaker 1: then we record an EP, the Poison and Wine EP,
Speaker 1: and put that out and that's when the placement for
Speaker 1: Gray's happens, and that's when stuff starts really like spinning.
Speaker 1: We record a record with Charlie Peacock, and we record
Speaker 1: with Charlie because I've known him since I was seventeen,
Speaker 1: and I knew he could do a great job. Um.
Speaker 1: We recorded it in an old, like gutted church that
Speaker 1: was Charlie and Andy's home, and UM put it out.
Speaker 1: And we've been touring and we just never stopped touring.
Speaker 1: We just toured and toured and tore it and toord
Speaker 1: and toward and toward, which was helpful for our careers
Speaker 1: but not necessarily for our minds. Um. But and then
Speaker 1: and then you get the phone calls. You know, you
Speaker 1: know how this goes. It's like the phone call happens,
Speaker 1: and then you get a bigger phone call, and then
Speaker 1: you get a bigger phone call and it gets It's
Speaker 1: very um, it's very alluring, like saying yes, and you
Speaker 1: want to say yes because you've worked your whole life
Speaker 1: to get you know, to a certain to a certain place,
Speaker 1: whatever that place is. Isn't it cool to finally be cool?
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, I don't know. Listen, I
Speaker 1: don't think I'll ever be cool. But what I mean
Speaker 1: is people actually thinking you're cool, Like I get work
Speaker 1: offered to me now, just like when you guys are blowing,
Speaker 1: you had to be like, oh, we've been working so
Speaker 1: hard and people now are offering us to come do
Speaker 1: these shows. Yeah, yeah it was. It felt really good.
Speaker 1: It felt really good. So what do you say about
Speaker 1: the breakup? Um? That it's layered and that I'm um
Speaker 1: only one half, so I try and speak with a
Speaker 1: lot of discretion UM, And that it was really fun
Speaker 1: until it wasn't. Do you miss having someone on stage
Speaker 1: as a partner or do you like just do enjoy now?
Speaker 1: I like doing this now. This feels very much like
Speaker 1: where I'm supposed to be, UM, and I can be
Speaker 1: thankful for the season and have learned a ship ton
Speaker 1: from it. UM. But I once had somebody in an
Speaker 1: office and a very high tall building, a very important building, UM,
Speaker 1: in a very big city tell me that no one
Speaker 1: wanted to hear me unless I was standing next to
Speaker 1: a man. And that, for me was the moment when
Speaker 1: I said, you know what, I don't think that's true
Speaker 1: at all. And that was just a few years ago.
Speaker 1: So I think for me, I'm exactly where I need
Speaker 1: to be. And it feels really good to be standing
Speaker 1: on my own t feet and I am collaborating with people.
Speaker 1: I have an amazing UM, I'm an amazing band that
Speaker 1: I get to travel with. I've got Anthony Da Costa
Speaker 1: on guitar and Wilhelmina Frank Zerda who plays like every
Speaker 1: instrument you could possibly think of, and um, and we're
Speaker 1: harmonizing and um. You know, for a while we had
Speaker 1: an upright base and I just I love it. I
Speaker 1: do best when I elaborate. I'm not like a girl
Speaker 1: that that's like, you know, flag on a hill. It's
Speaker 1: my way or the highway. I've never been that way. Um,
Speaker 1: I do really, I think I do a lot better
Speaker 1: when I collaborate, and so I'll always do that in
Speaker 1: some way, shape or form. Um. But this time, it
Speaker 1: says a solo artist date solo headlining tour starting February
Speaker 1: Phoenix in a wrap up in Nashville. You doing two
Speaker 1: nights at Third and Lensley. Yeah. I wanted to come
Speaker 1: to your release show, and I felt so bad because
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm coming and I didn't get back
Speaker 1: in time. You're totally fine. It was so fun. It
Speaker 1: was at the O G Basement. Don't tell me how fun.
Speaker 1: It was terrible. Sound was awful, it was great. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: It was so much fun and it felt so good
Speaker 1: to be back down there and um, industry friends and
Speaker 1: like you know, it just felt right. This season just
Speaker 1: feels I've been through some really, really tough seasons, Bobby
Speaker 1: like in the last few years, and it feels so
Speaker 1: damn good to be in in a season where things
Speaker 1: feel like again, like they're resonating and where I feel
Speaker 1: more more grounded in myself. That feels really good. So
Speaker 1: regardless of what happens, I am pleased that the music
Speaker 1: seems to be connecting, but um yeah, I'm just enjoying
Speaker 1: myself that connects with me. I told you I listen
Speaker 1: this stuff all the time, all the time you and
Speaker 1: I won't. I think someone sent me hey here, so
Speaker 1: I would have listen to the whole record because I
Speaker 1: felt like I cheat, I didn't. I don't listen to
Speaker 1: a music from people ever, even my favorite artists. I
Speaker 1: won't because I feel like that's cheating my people, and
Speaker 1: I don't want to be cooler than they are, and
Speaker 1: I don't want to be like I've already heard it
Speaker 1: wait till you hear it, except do you already saw
Speaker 1: the music videos? So that's different. The reason I was
Speaker 1: able to cheat on that is wait, talk to me
Speaker 1: about your justification, because I'm loving hearing that I could
Speaker 1: see it. What has that happen to do with anything?
Speaker 1: It was a music video. I would watch a movie
Speaker 1: screener before I would watch a movie. I don't same okay,
Speaker 1: So okay, I get movie screeners all the time. I
Speaker 1: don't feel like I'm cooler than anybody else the music
Speaker 1: videos that he check this out so and I was like,
Speaker 1: I was like, should I mute it and watch it?
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't, but I felt like I did
Speaker 1: feel like I was cheating. I like, I like these quirks.
Speaker 1: I liked that I'm figuring all quirks. Aren't we all?
Speaker 1: I think we all are all quirks. I totally get that.
Speaker 1: The other day I was like, where's the lid to
Speaker 1: this pen? Where's the lid to this pen? And I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm a little bit crazy. Do you know what has
Speaker 1: made my life better? This massive sharpie that I have?
Speaker 1: And because I checked, I haven't big on the lists.
Speaker 1: I o c D about lists. I have lists. I
Speaker 1: check everything off. I can't walk. Mike is my head
Speaker 1: writer on the show, so I write all the games
Speaker 1: and a lot of the stories that I talked about.
Speaker 1: He has them already and I have this thing that
Speaker 1: I check off, And about halfway through the show, I
Speaker 1: give him everything i' checked off. He has to give
Speaker 1: me a whole new list of things I haven't checked off,
Speaker 1: and he got me this big sharpie. Let's enjoy. I
Speaker 1: can mark off and holding with one sharpie stroke. It's
Speaker 1: the greatest thing. I love it so much. Are you
Speaker 1: endorsed by Sharpie? Because I'm not, But I am endorsed
Speaker 1: by the General Insurance? Are yes? You are? Catch That's right.
Speaker 1: They're not even advertising on this. That's amazing. What's on
Speaker 1: the top of your list right now? On what what
Speaker 1: to do? Oh? Every day, like I make a list
Speaker 1: of things to talk about on the show, and so
Speaker 1: you know, we started five am, and so I have
Speaker 1: what I want to do. My show doesn't see my
Speaker 1: my page. No one on my show, one on your
Speaker 1: show does. Is the only one that sees it. You're
Speaker 1: the keeper and also the helper. I'd never allowed any
Speaker 1: I'm kind of a control freakause I never depended on
Speaker 1: anyone else. I know. I finally let someone in a
Speaker 1: little bit, so Mike does it with me now and
Speaker 1: so no one sees it. And so every day it's
Speaker 1: like a different different thing. And do you have lists
Speaker 1: for like taking care of things? You need to take
Speaker 1: care of everything on my computer all the time. If
Speaker 1: I'm packing and make a list of things I gotta
Speaker 1: make sure to put in my suitcase and then I
Speaker 1: take it and not erase it. Were you doing? Were
Speaker 1: you like that as a kid? I think I would
Speaker 1: had to find ways to be efficient and get things done. Yep, yep,
Speaker 1: So probably in different ways. I get that. So but yeah,
Speaker 1: my point is we're all just quirks. Dude for days,
Speaker 1: for days, I get it. I totally get it. Been
Speaker 1: talking that funny, that's funny. Sometimes we'll shut these things
Speaker 1: out like thirty minutes time. Well, I get it. I've
Speaker 1: been there. That's like, that's like you have a lot
Speaker 1: of first dates, you know what I mean? With people
Speaker 1: that it's it's like you you know pretty quickly if
Speaker 1: if you're like, oh, no, I'll just have a salad,
Speaker 1: like can I get the side salad please? And no
Speaker 1: I don't want coffee. At the end of this, I'm good.
Speaker 1: I got somewhere to go. I totally get it. I
Speaker 1: have a lot of first dates up here that because
Speaker 1: it's a lot. It's like someone coming into my house
Speaker 1: every time. To know. I get that, but I don't
Speaker 1: have a lot of first dates in life, like I
Speaker 1: have more work first days. I'm sorry, you gotta make
Speaker 1: up that ratio. You gotta mix up that ratio. And
Speaker 1: but you have to slow down if you're gonna meet.
Speaker 1: But I don't know how to do that. I don't
Speaker 1: even have to meet anybody. Now, what do you mean
Speaker 1: there's like eight million ways to meet people. I'm not
Speaker 1: really well, not really. I mean you can meet people,
Speaker 1: but it just depends what kind of quality interaction you want.
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to Yeah, yeah, you're you're past like
Speaker 1: this swipe and all that stuff. Yeah, I'm not better
Speaker 1: than it. No, I don't think you're saying that. I
Speaker 1: just think I hear you saying I don't really want
Speaker 1: to do that, and I don't trust people anymore, anybody.
Speaker 1: Gratia Marks used to say, I don't want to be
Speaker 1: in a club that would would have me, And it's like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to date anyone that wants to date me. Well,
Speaker 1: then they're they're in lies. Your quandary, dude, never ending.
Speaker 1: You need a hug, Dude, I need a hug, and
Speaker 1: I'll end with this story before I finish on your story.
Speaker 1: When I was a kid, and this is not a
Speaker 1: way story, but this is just a quick overview at
Speaker 1: how my life is different but the same. When I
Speaker 1: was a kid, I would like when church would drop
Speaker 1: me off, I would never let them drop me in
Speaker 1: front of my house because I'm embarrassed to where I lived.
Speaker 1: I would never let anyone go to my house because
Speaker 1: I was embarrassed of where I lived at all. No
Speaker 1: one you couldn't see it, because I didn't want people
Speaker 1: to see, you know how poor I was, and so
Speaker 1: they I would have them dropping off a block away,
Speaker 1: three blocks away, and I would lie about where I
Speaker 1: lived all the time. The same thing, just different because
Speaker 1: I do well now, I don't want anyone to see
Speaker 1: where I live, except that we're all coming into your house. Well,
Speaker 1: this is work, work is complete, separate. But I don't want,
Speaker 1: I want. I don't want anyone to come into my
Speaker 1: house like personally, like just like a chill day. I
Speaker 1: don't want him to judge in any way. It's the
Speaker 1: same feeling because I want him to always got a
Speaker 1: nice house. I should probably want to like him the
Speaker 1: same way. I don't even be like, oh, he's got
Speaker 1: a terribly house. I don't want to I should not
Speaker 1: like him. That feels exactly the same, Like it make
Speaker 1: given me this like nauseous feeling. This is so like
Speaker 1: I appreciate you being this honest and open with me.
Speaker 1: This is it's really fascinating. It's like you feel you
Speaker 1: feel really self conscious completely, Yeah, in the same way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just different circumstances. Yeah, yeah, like full one eight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like full circles. Yeah, the circumstances, but on the
Speaker 1: circumstances three sixty on the field for a song that's
Speaker 1: on you, we'll just have to write it together. We'll
Speaker 1: do We'll write it together. Let me say this. The
Speaker 1: record is called Front Porch and it is not out yet,
Speaker 1: as she's told she scolded me at the first of
Speaker 1: this podcast. Hopefully just gently school. I was talking about
Speaker 1: this song. But the record comes out and they're so
Speaker 1: many dates. Are all the dates up at Joy Williams. Yeah, okay, yep,
Speaker 1: they are. They're all available tickets a lot of them
Speaker 1: are selling out, which just feels great because the record
Speaker 1: is not even out yet. How about that, right, Like,
Speaker 1: isn't it a thing when people want to come to
Speaker 1: a show, it's getting nervous. I just feel grateful. That's
Speaker 1: what I feel like. I just I'm like, I literally
Speaker 1: sometimes I'll say, I can't believe you guys are here,
Speaker 1: and that's how I feel every night. I'm like, I
Speaker 1: can't believe. I can't believe you showed up. I feel
Speaker 1: the same freaking win. Know. I do stand up and
Speaker 1: there'll be three thousand people or two in theater. People
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, and I will be like, I can't
Speaker 1: believe you guys will paying money to watch me do this.
Speaker 1: I know, but what a gift. It's so fun. I
Speaker 1: love singing. I love when people show up. It's so
Speaker 1: much fun. And I just feel like we're literally just
Speaker 1: hanging out on you know, on a front porch, I guess,
Speaker 1: or I have say sometimes in the living room, which
Speaker 1: feels like we're all in it together. I love that feeling.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna come. I'm gonna come. Ye you wanted to
Speaker 1: come already. I never go to anybody, but I'm so
Speaker 1: sad I missed it. Okay, let let me do the
Speaker 1: money stuff here. The album Front Porch comes out May three.
Speaker 1: If it's after May three, it is out for you. Now,
Speaker 1: you should stream it, download it, you should go watch
Speaker 1: a show. Um, it's been what almost four years since Venus?
Speaker 1: Is that right? A little? Yeah? Give her take about
Speaker 1: four years, give or take. Yeah, that's a long that's
Speaker 1: a long time. It's been a few different life wow.
Speaker 1: Um okay. Headlining tour starts February and Phoenix and then
Speaker 1: she's all over the place. Well, let me say this
Speaker 1: has been a real treat for me. I rarely get
Speaker 1: to pulling people that I'm a genuine fan of. Most
Speaker 1: of the time. People come in and I'm like, hey,
Speaker 1: you're pretty good at what you do. Let's talk about it.
Speaker 1: Than it was good Joy Williams at Joy Williams. Anything
Speaker 1: you'd like to say. You took a breath. I thought
Speaker 1: I was interrupted. No, I was just saying I was
Speaker 1: just gonna say, it's really fun hanging out with you.
Speaker 1: Thanks for letting me bombard your your cossa and you
Speaker 1: cursed several times. Preachers daughter that cusses. Yeah. Living on
Speaker 1: the Edge at Joy Williams Record Front Porch check out
Speaker 1: Front Porch song. The video will be out sometimes soon.
Speaker 1: Let me tell you it is a freaking awesome video.
Speaker 1: When you see it, I'll go and post it on
Speaker 1: my account tonight, episode one before Joy. Thank you all right,
Speaker 1: every