1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: Unicorns inn Afro Tech digital series august I Wire Bate 2 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:12,039 Speaker 1: Taylor is the designer that runs Mind Traveler Design are 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: in design studio that special licensing character and story development 4 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: for video games and film. He's on the episode discussing 5 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: the journey and hardships of being an entrepreneur. Take a 6 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: listen to the gyms he's dropping about strategy and timing. 7 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: Entrepreneurship is it's just about believing in a vision, having 8 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: a plan about what you want to create, and then 9 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 1: talking to people about it, while at the same time 10 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: doing as much work as possible every day to bring 11 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 1: into fruition. Even in the darkness. Sometimes the work that 12 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 1: you're doing is progressing you, whether you realize it or not. 13 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 1: Any day is an opportunity for a tremendous growth and breakthrough. 14 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: You just have to like not give up. And so 15 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: I believe that that is like a reoccurring thing. You know, 16 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: things for me, they take time, but when they come out, 17 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 1: baby man, I'm will Lucas, Mrs Black Tech, Green Money. 18 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: I'm gonna introduce you to some of the biggest names, 19 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: some of the brightness minds and brilliant ideas. If you're 20 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,839 Speaker 1: black and building or simply using tech to secure your back. 21 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:25,960 Speaker 1: This podcast is for you. Fad Ellis Lampkins is a 22 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: social justice advocate and CEO at Promise, which helps people 23 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: avoid utility shut offs, licensed revocations, scott high interest rates, 24 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: and even incarcerration with flexible interest free payment plans. She 25 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: was also a union organizer and previously served as Prince's manager. 26 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 1: And yes, the Prince you think I'm talking about with 27 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: the resume like hers, who knew one day she'd going 28 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: to run a fast growing startup which was backed by 29 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: white combinator and renowned investors like Mark Injreason, But I 30 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: believe history gives us clues about our futures. How would 31 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: Padre connected dis from her work in social justice and 32 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: music to successfully running a tech startup. I think most 33 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: of my preparation came from um really being uh broke. 34 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:17,359 Speaker 1: I think to say that because I think your life 35 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: is shaped by your own experiences and how the world 36 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: sees you. And so for me, some people I hear 37 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,839 Speaker 1: they're amazing stories and they're like and I felt, you know, triumphant, 38 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: And unfortunately for me, I think I felt a lot 39 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: of shame. I was in programs with like really smart 40 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: kids who had money and two parents and a lot 41 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: of resources. And so for me, I felt a lot 42 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 1: of shame like being poorer or whatever else. And so 43 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: what that made me be clear is I didn't want 44 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: that experience for other people. And so I had a 45 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: little sister, I had family. As I got older, more family, 46 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: and so most of my work has really been about 47 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: um making sure that people don't feel that the lack 48 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: of dignity, the lack of respect for being poor, like 49 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: what it means to get for you know, when I 50 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: was a kid, I had free lunch, and they used 51 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: to make you be in a different line for free 52 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: lunch versus the people who paid for lunch. And so 53 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: I just think, like, I don't want that experience for 54 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: anyone else. And so, uh, my job is to create 55 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: anything I can so that we build dignity for children 56 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: and children of color and other people. That's what I 57 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: that's what I think, That's what shaped me, That's what 58 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: makes my how I make decisions today. It's like, am 59 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: I doing stuff that makes it better for people? You know, 60 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: I'm sure we're gonna talk about a lot of this today, 61 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: but I'm wonder your response to because your career has 62 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: taken like this long and winding road, you know, from 63 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: the music industry, working with labor unions and you know, 64 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: social justice, and you're still doing a lot of that today. 65 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: But what would you say you're an expert at like 66 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: what is it? Phasia is uniquely situated to do. I 67 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: think I am an expert at exit you Shan, I 68 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: think that I figure out how to do zero to one, 69 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: how to make what I think feels impossible possible. UM. 70 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: And so that's what I think. Whether in any place 71 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: I've been, it's usually been starting a project or starting 72 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: something that was from scratch and making it compelling and 73 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 1: making it work. I think I am a zero to 74 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 1: one person and that's what my strength is. You know, 75 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: there's so many people from communities that you know, I 76 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: would imagine you and I come from UM who are 77 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: not in like native technology industries, but perhaps leverage technology 78 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: and UM. But if they leaned in technology might allow 79 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 1: them to do their work at scale, you know, if 80 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 1: they considered it. So talk about the journey or more 81 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 1: so the hand to hand combat of social justice that 82 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: you performed, like union organizing, you know, the personal work 83 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: you did with prints and running an anti poverty organization 84 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: to then find ending ways to leverage technology to amplify 85 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: the opportunity you had to do your work. Yeah. Well, one, 86 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: I think everything we do is technology, and I think 87 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: we've just been trained to think that because we don't 88 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: use the same words, because we didn't go to the 89 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: same schools, that that something is flawed with us, instead 90 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: of that technology as a whole is created and structured 91 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: by mostly dudes whose parents support them, who have the 92 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: luxury of uh failing of creating. So one thing I 93 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: just think about is all of us do technology, whether 94 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: it's in our cars, on our phones or things like that. 95 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 1: Um And two is I think that the technology is 96 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: fundamentally something that should make the world better, and there's 97 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: just not a lot of models because if you think 98 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: about it as scale, right, it really is taking an 99 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: individual and something experienced and figuring out what do you 100 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: do over and over again, and how to use technology 101 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: to make it more effective or to automate it. And 102 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: so it just happens that the people that are creating 103 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: it are mostly thinking about When I was running revenue, 104 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 1: it was people were thinking about how do we have 105 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: dog walking because that's what they cared about how do 106 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: I have a taxi after I get out of the club, 107 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: how do I have valet parking? Because those were the 108 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: problems for them, And so I think we have an 109 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 1: obligation to figure out how do we use technology to 110 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: solve the problems for our own communities? And um, I 111 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: just think if you look at kind of what culture 112 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: has done, if you look at music, it's like, unfortunately, 113 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: it really is creators creating content and then technology technology 114 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: being in a way to devalue our content. And so 115 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: the real question is how do we own the own 116 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 1: the platforms that devalue our own creations as a community. 117 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 1: And so I think the question is not just a technology, 118 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: it's a question of ownership. How do we own what 119 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: we create? So do you think we're asking ourselves the 120 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: wrong question in too many instances with regards to whether, 121 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: let's say I work in law and I don't see 122 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: a lane for myself in technology. Um, that maybe my 123 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: premise is off and that there is something here that, 124 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 1: if used properly, could help me do what I do. 125 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: But perhaps for you know, hundreds or thousands of more 126 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: people with the same amount of output. Yeah, I mean absolutely. 127 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: I think if if someone I knew was in law, 128 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: I would be clear and say, you know, how is 129 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: technology impacting you today? It impacts the way you look 130 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: for research and impacts the way you find people. And 131 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: to clear that figuring out how people get access and 132 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: they can actually handle themselves, whether it's in civil court 133 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: or small claims court, that we want to be able 134 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: to help people have those tools. And so I think 135 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: we it's not just we have to understand it. I 136 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: think we have an obligation, right, We have an obligation 137 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: to figure out how do we use the one of 138 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: the greatest potential tools for change for the change that 139 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: we seek and the things that we believe in. So 140 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: I wouldn't just say that for my friends or people 141 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: that are an amazing from now who's in philanthropy and 142 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: I just said, you have to go into tech, even 143 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: if it is a function of being, uh, someone running 144 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: a foundation. The idea that you would just be an 145 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: investor of hundreds of millions of dollars and not think 146 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: about how that money is used, how technology has an 147 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: impact on folks would be an incredible shame. And so 148 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: I think every person is impacted by it. Every person 149 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: will see it, and we have to figure out how 150 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: do we use those opportunities as leverage for change. You know, 151 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: there's there's this conversation that happens in our social discourse 152 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: from time to time, and it talks about, you know, 153 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: the sentiment that technology replaces jobs and often displaces workers. 154 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: And that's not necessarily wholly untrue. UM, but I wonder 155 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: how do you view the landscape of technology through that lens? 156 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: I think that technology is the future, um and Uh. 157 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: In my experience, like I've been, I've been involved in 158 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: technology in a couple different ways. One I used to 159 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: be at a labor federation, which is a local you know, 160 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: labor unions, and technology was horrific for working people. I 161 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: was in San Jose. And what it meant is that 162 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: everyone used to work for the company, right, Like if 163 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: I worked at a company, the janitor worked at the company, 164 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: their receptionists, like all of those were employees of the company. 165 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: And what shifted is instead of being employees, they started 166 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: outsourcing everything that wasn't engineering or technical, right, food service, uh, janitorial. 167 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: And so that meant as a consequence, all of a sudden, 168 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: those jobs didn't have benefits. They paid less because you 169 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: put someone in the middle of the interaction, right, So 170 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: instead of playing the employee directly, you paid a middle 171 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: person who had to make profit, and profit could only 172 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: come from two places, you know, making it more expensive 173 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: or paying someone. And the consequence was always paying so 174 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: and less because they couldn't charge more and or the 175 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: companies were doing it as a cost reduction. And so 176 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: so for me, technology was harmful, and you know, because 177 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,199 Speaker 1: it was for working people. The consequence of kind of 178 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: a group of people making a lot of money was 179 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: that a lot of people didn't. And and all of 180 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: a sudden, people who were doing honorable work we're not 181 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: considered a court of the firm. And those were mostly 182 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: black and brown people and women, and so all of 183 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: a sudden the work was less valued. And so I 184 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: think in technology the labor movement, I saw that. I 185 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: think when I went to nonprofit work, I saw that 186 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: in the even things like solar, the devaluing of InChI 187 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: and the devaluing of the work that would have been 188 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: kind of the people I knew and grew up with 189 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: would have been. There's jobs that used to be higher paying, 190 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 1: good jobs, all of a sudden those were less paying jobs. 191 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: When we look at factories, right, the difference of working 192 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,079 Speaker 1: at a GM versus working at Tesla. Tesla was hiring 193 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 1: out of right temp agencies right versus kind of jobs 194 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: with benefits and a pension. And so we saw the consequences. 195 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: And then I think when I was in music, I 196 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 1: saw it as all of these amazing mostly black creators 197 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: and watching people who had created legacy catalogs and their 198 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:59,439 Speaker 1: content being be devalued by companies like Spotify, and which 199 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: record companies owned part of it, right, So all of 200 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: a sudden you had record companies having streaming services devaluing 201 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 1: the price of the content, and so ultimately it devalued 202 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: the contribution. And so I think technology we should be 203 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: clear as something that is happening, and but it is 204 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: devaluing our community. It's devaluing our worth and and using 205 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:23,599 Speaker 1: us to grow it, right, and music to me is 206 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: the best example. So all right, so this is super 207 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: interesting to me. So let's go in there. So you 208 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: talk about how we get devalued on these platforms. And 209 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: it's not so much that um, there is no value 210 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: or you know, our value is discounted. We're just not 211 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: allowed to participate in the value. So you know, in 212 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: that way, we get taken advantage of. So music is 213 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: a great, you know example, but also if I'm on 214 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: TikTok and I create a dance, you know, they're not 215 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: making sure that my video, my TikTok clip that got 216 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: millions of views. You know that I enjoy the reward 217 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,199 Speaker 1: or did that, but they take advantage of it because 218 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: they own the platform. How do you reconcile that with 219 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: the same idea that we don't always see ourselves as 220 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: platform creators, but we see ourselves as creators, and how 221 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: do we change that narrative? Thank you? Yeah. One thing 222 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: is I think we just have to build the language 223 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: of ownership, which is and what music taught me is 224 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 1: I would see like we got a one million dollar contract, 225 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: and then you would look at the details that it 226 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: was like three albums. The first album you get ten 227 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: thou dollars and you own uh no percentage of revenue. 228 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: You just have royalties after you pay the company back, 229 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 1: and then you're really if you're you only have a 230 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: right to go to contract too if you're successful, and 231 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: then you're successful now, but you took the deal under 232 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,959 Speaker 1: contract one thinking a million dollars was a lot of money, 233 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: and so one thing I think that's really important for 234 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: us to do is talk about language and to talk 235 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: about ownership, because I think we're not teaching teaching especially 236 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: I think about the kids. My kids is when I 237 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: think about what they're like, I want to be a musician, 238 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: I want to do this. I can change his day 239 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: to day. Who wants who wants to do what? They 240 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: are the most amazing children is My job is to 241 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: make them want to own and is to make them 242 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: think about how do they control those things so that 243 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: they are in a position and how do they create 244 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: things that make their life easier instead of um uh, 245 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,199 Speaker 1: wanting to use someone else's tools. And I think we 246 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:32,679 Speaker 1: should just be clear that the tools are, you know, 247 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: like it's it's great because some of those things helped 248 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: organize and do other things, but we should be clear 249 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: they're not going to build generational wealth. They are going 250 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: to operate in ways that don't have us at the core. 251 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: And so we have to like, we have to have 252 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: more black people, We have to have more brown book 253 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 1: creating technology because if we don't, we will always it 254 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,199 Speaker 1: will always be happening to us instead of happening because 255 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,839 Speaker 1: of us. Are happening based on the conditions we want 256 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: and um and that to me is the opportunity is 257 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: to is your right to use platforms and so that 258 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: we can say these platforms should be owned and designed 259 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: by us, so that it's natural. Like I think when 260 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: we look at payment processors, like we do payments as 261 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: a company, and the payment processors are basically built for 262 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: rich people. So it's like, if you want to do 263 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: zero financing for peloton, you're good. If you're a poor 264 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: person who can't pay child support or a parking ticket, 265 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: you gotta come in the office. You gotta bring your 266 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: taxes to prove your poor to pay them back. So 267 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: you have to prove your brooks, you have to take 268 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: time off, you have to pay for parking, you have 269 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: to go in and then if you pay every month, 270 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: the second you miss a payment, you fail and you 271 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: face consequences. Where if you're wealthy buying a Peloton, they're like, 272 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: you got six months, take all the time you need 273 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: and enjoy the peloton. In the meantime, something is structurally 274 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: wrong because the people that are creating the products are 275 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: thinking about themselves. So you know, I so let's talk 276 00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: a out that is it? Because that we are in 277 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: some rooms considered second class or secondary that you know, 278 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: we get taken advantage of in these ways, or is 279 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: it just we're not at the table at all in 280 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: so many instances where these sorts of decisions get made 281 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: that impact us in such negative ways. I think it 282 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: is all of the above. I think, Um, we had 283 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: an incredible engineer who I liked a lot, and he 284 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: and I were talking and I said, okay, so when 285 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: someone gets paid, we got to make sure they can 286 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: be able to take money out in the morning. And 287 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: he said something to me that was really interesting, which 288 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: he says, why does it matter if we take money 289 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: in the morning or the afternoon? And I said, because 290 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: when someone gets paid, their money could be gone by 291 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: the afternoon. And he said to me, how could someone's 292 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: money be gone by the afternoon of the day they 293 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: got paid. And I realized his experience was such that, 294 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: like I grew up where money was gone before you 295 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: got paid. So it's like you got paid, but you 296 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: you knew, you knew what the check, where the check 297 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: was going, and you probably had a deficit post the check. 298 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: And I realized that the people who are building it, 299 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: it doesn't occur to them that you could get paid 300 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: and not have money the day you get paid, And 301 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: so the system is being designed and then it harms 302 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: us because we we don't whatever your person's reality is, 303 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: if you don't have money, you fail and there's no 304 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: ability to be able to make it like if so, 305 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: for example, we had built a system that way where 306 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: if a ticket is due and you don't pay it 307 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: in the morning, then you would fail and you would 308 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: face the consequences. In some states it's incarceration. It's a 309 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: you know, like and you don't pay child support, you 310 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: lose your driver's license. What's it like? Does not have 311 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 1: a driver's license? And so the realities we have to 312 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: build systems that by by and for people that recognize 313 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: the reality is that most people, more and more people 314 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: are going to be in a place where when they 315 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: get paid UM, then money has gone before they get paid, 316 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: and so the system should be built that way. You know, 317 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: it was a what I found where you said I 318 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: went into tech to understand it, right, and now that 319 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 1: you're running a highly successful tech company, what did you 320 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: come to understand about tech um? What did I come 321 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: to understand? What we just raised at half a billion valuation? 322 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: So I feel good that okay, company is doing good company, 323 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: Like we never announced stuff. I'm like, shure, that's a 324 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: physic yeah. Uh. I think what I realized is a 325 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 1: couple of things. One is I never was around people 326 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: who got to fail, and it's just an incredible thing, 327 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 1: a privilege to fail and adapt and um. And so 328 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: it's just like, oh, the product doesn't work. Oh that's 329 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: that's no reflection of you. You just adapt and learn. 330 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, iterate, iterate as like right, 331 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: I went to cal State Northridge. I didn't go to 332 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: anywhere where they were like fail. I was like, you know, 333 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 1: so I was like, oh, got it, you fail and 334 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: iterate okay, cool um. And so I think one thing 335 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: I just learned is that some people grew up with 336 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 1: so much privilege that they were taught that failure could 337 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 1: breed success instead of that failure was failure. And so 338 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: the thing that has been most striking to me about 339 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: tech is that it is a space in which I 340 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: worked at a company that I'm on the board of 341 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: now called Honor, and I never had been around like 342 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,959 Speaker 1: people who went to Stanford and they were just like, 343 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: oh we failed, cool, move on. And I was like Okay, 344 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: we failed. Cool, move on. I just was like, oh, 345 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: that's okay, cool, that's good. Ye no, right, like it's 346 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: a part of growth. And I was like, oh cool, okay. 347 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: So so I think but learned is uh failure. I 348 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: also learned that everything was built by people for themselves, 349 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: the best type of like most solve the problem you 350 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 1: care about. Well when it's young dudes who have parents 351 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: who support them, that all the solutions are their problems, 352 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: not our problems. And so I learned that apps no 353 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 1: people who experience the things that that I care about, 354 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: that we care about the people we grew up care about. 355 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: All the solicits are gonna be for those people, right. 356 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: And it was the first place where I'd ever been 357 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,719 Speaker 1: where people are like, oh, we went to boarding school together, 358 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: then we all went to college together. Then we and 359 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,439 Speaker 1: I'd never even heard people talk about where they went 360 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: to college, scept for college football. As an adult. Hey wait, 361 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,160 Speaker 1: we talked about where we went to college. I was like, wait, wait, 362 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: let we okay? Cool and um, and so I think 363 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,439 Speaker 1: the thing I the thing I did learn that I 364 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 1: was not good at before is I didn't have skills 365 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: like I hadn't been taught scale. You know, I studied 366 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,959 Speaker 1: politics at cow State Northridge, so no one taught me, 367 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: you know, language, what I would say, go get this 368 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: instead of language that would allow technology to built on it. 369 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: Get the uh, get the bottle of juice on the 370 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: table so you can pick it up. You know. My 371 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: my language wasn't specific enough. And um, and so I 372 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 1: also just had to learn that there were people who 373 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: are being prepared for the future and I had not been. 374 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: I had not done the work. Uh. So that's a 375 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: lot about what I think about is how do I 376 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: prepare future? And then as I think about building a company, 377 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: how do how do you hire a company that looks 378 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: like the community you want to build solutions for? And 379 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,959 Speaker 1: also figures out how do you figure out what's the 380 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: new pattern? Right? If the pattern isn't people who went 381 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: to Stanford Business School, then went worked at Mackenzie, then 382 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 1: did a standard Google and operations, and now you hire 383 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: what does that pattern look like? Yeah? So, so put 384 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: on your futures have. I'm gonna actually put on your 385 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: futures have for a second, and I wonder, um, what 386 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: your thoughts are on what the future looks like at 387 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: this trajectory. If if you take the pay pals of 388 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 1: the world, the cash apps of the world, who build 389 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: you know, these founders build software for problems that they had, 390 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: our problems that they saw in the world, you know, 391 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: around their peer group. But they may not necessarily taken 392 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: to account the situation, the plight, the struggle of that 393 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: person who's in the city, you know, in poverty or etcetera. 394 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: Who to your earlier point, like by the time check 395 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: comes on Friday, the money has already spent. So these 396 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:19,360 Speaker 1: people who are building these platforms, particularly fintech platforms UM, 397 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: don't necessarily have that first hand experience of dealing with 398 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: these things. So if at the current trajectory, if if 399 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 1: there is no intervention, if there is no you know, 400 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 1: come to Jesus moment around technology and finance, what does 401 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 1: the future look like with regards to wealth generation UM, 402 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: with regards to economic opportunity, educational opportunity UM. If if 403 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 1: this doesn't get solved, is we have to realize that 404 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: the tools of the future are in some ways worse 405 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,439 Speaker 1: than the tools of the past. Right, because what's different 406 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: is it looks appealing. Right, We're getting out of paid 407 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: a loans, but now you can pay a fee per month, 408 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: and you and borrow money ahead of your paycheck. And 409 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: but you're paying a really high interest rate. Right, I 410 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: don't notice that you're paying a really high interest rate 411 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,239 Speaker 1: and it seems great, right. And also there in your 412 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: bank accounts selling your information to people about what you're 413 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: spending and how you're doing it. And so one is 414 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: I think if you think about the loss of privacy, 415 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: if you think about the modified, like modifying right someone's 416 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 1: personal information and um, and then I just think about 417 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: the systems right that it doesn't so like our product. 418 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: We only do interest free because I think people should 419 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: think that the same way that rich people get it, 420 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: working people should get it. Why does pellet? Why have 421 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: I buy a peloton? Do I get it interest free? 422 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,239 Speaker 1: But if I need it, if I actually need it, 423 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: I don't get it interest free? Act to interest. And 424 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: so if the business model is fixable for wealthy folks, 425 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: the business models model should be fixable for others. And 426 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: so I just think if we don't start to both 427 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: have clear demand ends and and also start to understand 428 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: non predatory models for business, like I think the practical 429 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 1: problem is like, is I don't there's amazing people running 430 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: nonprofits anymore. I don't That's not the strategy that that 431 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 1: I'm trying to do, because I think the system I'm 432 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 1: best capable of changing is now the scaled system and 433 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: private capital. But it's so hard because every model, like 434 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: when we were doing payments, people said you should do lending, 435 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: and we just couldn't figure out the economics of lending, 436 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: and in a way that is in predatory because even 437 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: if you borrow at twelve, if I loan it to 438 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 1: you over three months, you're at thirty year and thirties, 439 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: and the interest, which is unfair for small short term loans, 440 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: is to pay that level of interest. And so I 441 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: just think that part of the failure for us that 442 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: I have to get okay with is that we don't 443 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: have a model in terms of how do you build 444 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: products for poor people in a profitable, scalable way that 445 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: does not floit people or is not predatory in nature. 446 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 1: And when I say like, hey, we need to figure 447 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: this out, people be like Ben and Jerry's I'm like, 448 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: that can't be the model, even though they're amazing and 449 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: I love ice cream. We we have to have better 450 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: models than like yogurt and Ben and Jerry's uh, and 451 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: I think financial services are going to be critical because 452 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: the idea like that the stuff that you talked about 453 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: one not owned by black people, not owned by brown people, 454 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: not led by black or brown people. And um that 455 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,239 Speaker 1: the wave of the future for people who don't have 456 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: bank accounts is we're teaching them predatory ways. Is problematic. 457 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 1: So one of the largest funding rounds raised by a 458 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: black woman, let's start up ever, um and thank you. Yeah, 459 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: we just raised more. You just raise more. No, we 460 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:56,360 Speaker 1: just raise more. Oh, let's talk about it. I went, 461 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: I just we just we raised like ninety days after 462 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: our first raise because people came back and so so so, 463 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: so we have raised more at a higher valuation. It 464 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: just we're just underwater in execution. So we haven't announced. 465 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 1: But but uh, yeah we raised more. Yeah. See you 466 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: say for me, nobody's listening. Nobody's listening is just you 467 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 1: and me. But I have said the thing that's scary, 468 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: right is as a black woman, UM, raising this much capital, 469 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: especially to try to do good. The pressure is one 470 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 1: is I want to do right by my people. I 471 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: want to and um and I it's like right, it's 472 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: like I don't want to fail but I also want 473 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: to build something that hasn't been built before. And it's 474 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: just I feel really honored and excited and privileged, but 475 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: also m scared every day every day. Let's talk about that, 476 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 1: because I want to make sure you're not the last one, 477 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 1: the last black woman to have, you know, something that's 478 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 1: significant in your company. So we know that racism, sexism exists, 479 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: you know, in the constructs of venture capital, and but 480 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: how have you recognized or have you recognized other factors 481 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: outside of that that main lead black people, black women 482 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: um to not getting funded at meaningful levels. Uh yeah, 483 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 1: I mean I think one thing that is uh striking 484 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: continues to be striking to me is the presumption of 485 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: what we have to do versus someone else. Like even 486 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: if you look at these rounds where someone just comes 487 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: up with an idea and they get a lot of money, 488 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't see a lot of uh black 489 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: women getting that opportunity. And I think part of it 490 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: is because venture capital is a bunch of you know, 491 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 1: mostly men who find people who are like them, that 492 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 1: look like the patterns that they recognize. What's crazy is 493 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 1: it mostly fails. So at some point you would think 494 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: venture capital would say you were we only win point 495 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: five percent at the time or person at the time. 496 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: It's just that the wind is so big that you 497 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: don't care that you lose at the time. And so, um, 498 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: so one is it? That's been interesting? Um, you know, 499 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: we have had to make the decision that some investors 500 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: weren't the right investors for us, because you know, when 501 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:26,919 Speaker 1: we were doing the criminal justice, people would say things 502 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: to me like, uh, what kind of crimes do you 503 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,120 Speaker 1: work with? People who have been like as though there's 504 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,679 Speaker 1: a deserving and a non deserving or uh, how do 505 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: you you know? What are the consequences? And those were 506 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 1: not my people, they will never be our people. And 507 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,360 Speaker 1: so I think I think racism is real. I think 508 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 1: sexism is real. Um, and I think, uh, I also 509 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,159 Speaker 1: think class is something we don't talk a lot about, right, 510 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: like the assumption if you went to certain schools, if 511 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 1: you and I just think the echinoic reality at least 512 00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: where I grew up is I couldn't when I went 513 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: to God into Stanford. So we should just be really 514 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: clear where I was is gotten into Stanford. But is 515 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: uh two is because I wouldn't even occur to me 516 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: that that was an aspiration because I could never afford it, right, 517 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: I had two loans going to a state school, so 518 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,479 Speaker 1: it wouldn't have even It wasn't even in my world. 519 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: And so I think it's also important that we acknowledge 520 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:22,399 Speaker 1: and that's why we have to create our own tools. 521 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,640 Speaker 1: But I think it's just they're not our people, right, 522 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: It's like when you go in when you meet with 523 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: folks that and I think that's why, like Michael Cybel, 524 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 1: is so important a y C. I think figuring out 525 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: who Stephen de Barry, I think who are the investors 526 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: that are creating space and place and working with them 527 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: are really critical. You know, I was reading you Know 528 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 1: your story and you talked about when you got in 529 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: the y C h the first time you said I 530 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: went into y C. I felt a hundred years old 531 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: because I came in and I had to go pick 532 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: up my kids. After the y see interview, I was 533 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: like and out of space. It was a bunch of 534 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: twenty year old dudes talking literally about freezing their brains. 535 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: And they all were like, here's my product, and they're like, 536 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: do you have a product? And I was like, I 537 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: don't even have an engineer. I mean, but let's talk. 538 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: But let's talk about that, because I mean, what have 539 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: you learned? What have you learned then about selling an 540 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: idea with nothing to show other than because I would 541 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: imagine if some of these instances you've used your resume 542 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: to to get you into the one is I think 543 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: because I ran revenue at my last company, I went 544 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: to run operations and I ended up running revenue. I think, 545 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: and Mark and Reason is the largest investor, So I think, 546 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: I mean, and it just happens. I've only been in 547 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: one tech company and it did well, and I was 548 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: I became an exact and so I think that gave 549 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,719 Speaker 1: me credibility that probably something else might have like if 550 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: I jumped in the wrong company. Then it went to 551 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: probably uh been, it went to it went to market. 552 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: Signaled that I had credibility I think in terms of 553 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,719 Speaker 1: the capacity for the company to do well. UM. And 554 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: so one is I never I had a privilege that 555 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: most people don't UM and so I'm really aware of that. UM. 556 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: But when I went to places like y C, I'm 557 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 1: literally people would ask me if I was lost. People 558 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: always thought I worked there other people that they would 559 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,959 Speaker 1: be like, And when I sat there, they didn't even 560 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: people didn't even want to. I don't think we Michael 561 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: is like literally a beloved but like we didn't make 562 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: a lot of friends there. It's I hear people be 563 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: like the best part of y C. I uh, it 564 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: was like the community, it's Michael, it's the people I've met, 565 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: like Ruben who did career, Karma who's in there now, 566 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: it's I see the evolution, it's Rose who were dead, 567 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: m relief. But um at the time, literally we came 568 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: in in jeans. I came in jeans. I'd never I 569 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: thought Michael was y C. I don't that guy whoever 570 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: the guy is who Graham? Paul Graham him and yeah. 571 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: And so I went there like I thought, this is 572 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: the thing that the black man runs. So I got 573 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: to move this thing. So I went there. I thought, 574 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: I was like this, this is where the black people go. 575 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: I write, I have my new Michael. So I was 576 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 1: like this, this is, this is this is I think 577 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: he was the only black venture capitalist I've ever seen. 578 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: So I was like this, I gotta go support this 579 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: because like you don't mean why I see you the rays. 580 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: I was like, no, I'm going to this thing. And 581 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: then I got there and it was a bunch of 582 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: like young white men who were staring at us, and 583 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: and then they were like literally, this guy's like, so 584 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: we're going to freeze brains so that people after they died, 585 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,719 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, you know quote. And then 586 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: I was like, they're like, what are you gonna do? 587 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: And I said, well, I want to figure out how 588 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: we scale solutions for people so they don't end up incarcerated. 589 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: And he was like, oh, h what are you gonna 590 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: do is you're gonna help people in jail. And I 591 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: was like, oh, we want to help people stay at 592 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: jail or get out of jail. And he was like oh, 593 00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: And so the people just as they were talking to 594 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: us made a decision that we were clearly not players 595 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: um and so it was it was just fascinating. And 596 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: then of course we've given the wrong phone nuverse. We 597 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: never got a call that night from Michael. So I 598 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: was like, not only did we not make it, they 599 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: don't even care enough to tell us that we didn't 600 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: make it. You didn't give the phone number. Yeah, but 601 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: I didn't do the wrong phone number. So you know, 602 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: I was like, let me give you feedback. You don't 603 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: even call people and I was like, oh, actually you 604 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: put the wrong phone number. I was like, yeah. The 605 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: one thing I guess is interesting is I do think 606 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: that in some ways it was better because we didn't 607 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: know and so we launched on hacker whatever, the hacker thing, 608 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: hacker news where you launched, and like I was like, 609 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: who are these people? What are we doing? So I 610 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: actually think it made it made it easier because we 611 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: didn't give it the same esteem I think that someone 612 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: else might have. So it's one thing to start a 613 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 1: business that has supreme value for your end user. But 614 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: you know, when you have this duels the ecosystem, you 615 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 1: you don't just need the customers, you need the partners 616 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: to be able to, you know, buy into what you're 617 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: doing so that you can leverage you know, their systems 618 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: to the benefit of your end user. And so how 619 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: did you navigate, you know, working, you know, getting the 620 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: buy in of institutions, governments, utility companies to be able 621 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: to say, look, I have something that is a value um, 622 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: and you should do business with us. UM. Yeah, so 623 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: our product is basically interest free installment plans for government debt. 624 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,479 Speaker 1: And so because of COVID, a lot of people couldn't 625 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: pay their bills and so you have back debt. We 626 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: started with those interest free installment plans for government because 627 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,479 Speaker 1: government doesn't have a lot of flexibility, right, it's just 628 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: built like you you owe it this day. If you fail, 629 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: you fail. And part of that that's built on legacy 630 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: systems like Oracle or others, so like the software just 631 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 1: says if you don't make the payment on Friday, you 632 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: fail on the payment and um. And so that was 633 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 1: the opportunity. And then we started to realize that people 634 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 1: qualified for support from the government, but that a lot 635 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: of it was dependent on your taxes. And so we said, 636 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: why don't we try something called self attestation, which is 637 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,360 Speaker 1: where you can say I qualify and then retain the 638 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: right to audit if we need to come back and 639 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: get information. But you shouldn't. It doesn't make sense that 640 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: you have to do a lot of work that the 641 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,879 Speaker 1: government says, so all this paperwork so you can get 642 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,479 Speaker 1: money to pay us. It's like we said to our clients, 643 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,879 Speaker 1: why do you make it difficult for people to pay you. 644 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 1: They don't get the money like they're paying you. You 645 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: should make it easy. And so the thing I think 646 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,879 Speaker 1: that we've been able to demonstrate and there's a case 647 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: study done in our in our work in Louisville's an 648 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: example is that because we build systems that I assume 649 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 1: someone doesn't want their water shut off. I assume that 650 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 1: someone doesn't want to go to jail. I so if 651 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: they fail in the payment, it's because I think they 652 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,839 Speaker 1: don't have the money, not because they don't want to pay. 653 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 1: And most payment systems are built punitive if you don't 654 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 1: pay us because you don't want to pay, so you 655 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 1: need to face consequences. So the difference is like, if 656 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: people fail in our system, most people make the payment 657 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,800 Speaker 1: within two weeks, So why would we charge a late fee. 658 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:08,839 Speaker 1: If the issue is you just need two weeks, then 659 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: what we should do is like for our software is 660 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: you can just ask for a two week requests. You 661 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 1: don't need to talk to someone. It's automated. And so 662 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 1: that's the system stuff. And I think what we've been 663 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,399 Speaker 1: able to show the governments is like you have people 664 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,319 Speaker 1: who are in debt that now have a repayment, and 665 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: we don't have a consequence. We don't have a collections, 666 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 1: we don't have you get something shut off. The worst 667 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,320 Speaker 1: thing that happens is we send you back to the 668 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,359 Speaker 1: government and so being able to demonstrate that you can 669 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: get a higher rate of repayment with giving people more 670 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: flexibility access to easier UM help. I think it's just 671 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 1: been the data and analytics that it actually makes more 672 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: sense for the government and so, UM, it's been pretty exciting. 673 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: We're just about to launch in Toledo and Buffalo is 674 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 1: getting voted on tomorrow, and so is You're from Toledo. Yeah, 675 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: I know Toledo. Now we're launching Intoledo. I dig it, 676 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 1: dig it, I dig it Yeah, yeah, Yeah, we're on 677 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 1: logic and there we're doing payment plans, but also um, 678 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,359 Speaker 1: you'll be able to do amnesty and debt relief so 679 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: that if you make certain on time payments and just 680 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,319 Speaker 1: forgive some of your debt right on, right on. You know, 681 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 1: when we started business, UM, we're very often personally passionate 682 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,280 Speaker 1: about the mission. UM, but business is business and sometimes 683 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 1: we need to pivot, right and you went through this, 684 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: how do you advise we process business objectives being switched 685 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: up in order to thrive When you got in it 686 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: for you know, probably a very personal, personally meaningful objective, 687 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,839 Speaker 1: but you're finding yourself in this position where you gotta pivot. Yeah, 688 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,760 Speaker 1: we did a pivot. We were focused on the criminal 689 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 1: justice system, and um, I just decided I didn't like 690 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 1: our now I like the clients that we had. As 691 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,759 Speaker 1: we thought about growth, I realized that the science that 692 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: we were talking to were not people I wanted to 693 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 1: help be more efficient. And the reality is, even if 694 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 1: you have good intentions, like I realized we were in 695 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 1: a state that shall remain nameless and sitting with them 696 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 1: and they were bragging about keeping someone in a pre 697 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: trial arrest for seven years on a marijuana arrest, So 698 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 1: keeping someone incarcerated for seven years for a pre trial 699 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: so they hadn't even been convicted. And I was like, 700 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 1: anything we do that makes this system more efficient is 701 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: harmful to our folks, even if we think it's good 702 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: in the moment. And so I just was like, we 703 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,759 Speaker 1: can't do this. And I was petrified because I had 704 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 1: to call our investors and say, I don't want to 705 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 1: do this anymore because I think it's harmful to the 706 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,799 Speaker 1: world and I can't sleep at night. And um, I 707 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 1: worried that as a black woman who had raised capital, 708 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,959 Speaker 1: I was going to set other people back because other 709 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 1: black people. People were gonna say, see black women, they 710 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: can't be focused on business, they care about their emotions. 711 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 1: That UM, and people have had critiques of us before 712 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,360 Speaker 1: that I think we're right, that we're just uh that 713 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,360 Speaker 1: that the system is so broken that and and for me, 714 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,760 Speaker 1: from a business perspective, the scale, we could have built 715 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:11,800 Speaker 1: a consulting business, but we never could have built a 716 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,600 Speaker 1: venture scale business. And so I had to reframe the discussion. 717 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,880 Speaker 1: I realized, as there's not a venture scale business unless 718 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 1: we become exploiters. And that was just not who we 719 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 1: were UM wanted to be. And so we made a 720 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 1: decision that we wanted to be able to build a 721 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 1: company that helped. Like we said, how do people end 722 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: up in jail? And the thing we saw is the 723 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,800 Speaker 1: people who are most likely or what's called a failure 724 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,759 Speaker 1: to appear, which is how you gauge like who's least 725 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: likely to show up for court. We're people on suspended 726 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: driver's licensees and the reason is because they work, they 727 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:46,880 Speaker 1: got they got there, You get your license has been 728 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 1: in mostly because you're you're poor, right, you can't afford something. 729 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,400 Speaker 1: It's not people who have committed some egregious crime. It 730 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 1: is people who are poor. And so we thought, how 731 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 1: do we figure out the system, And so we went 732 00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,400 Speaker 1: to Oakland and looked at and at the time, the 733 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,319 Speaker 1: payment plan at Oakland it was like you had to 734 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,719 Speaker 1: come in, you had to bring up like I just 735 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:06,880 Speaker 1: like you got to prove your poor and come in 736 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,280 Speaker 1: the office. And so we just set up a system online. 737 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,800 Speaker 1: We um scrubt their system and we just started paying. 738 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:14,720 Speaker 1: We took risk in the beginning. We just paid people's 739 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: tickets and we and it was not shocking to us 740 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 1: that when you give people grace, they pay. So for 741 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,760 Speaker 1: those start off founders out there, particularly those black started 742 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,319 Speaker 1: founders set out there and they are finding themselves in 743 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 1: a position where they have to switch gears, they have 744 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,279 Speaker 1: to switch lanes, they have to pivot um you know, 745 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 1: and they're personally passionate about what they were doing, but 746 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 1: there's this failure thing. Um they feel like they met, 747 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,799 Speaker 1: they may feel like like they failed. Like what would 748 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,560 Speaker 1: you give them as a successful founder today who's had 749 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,440 Speaker 1: to make that change? UM One, I would say the 750 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 1: real issue is what do you think you have the 751 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 1: capacity to be good at? And I realized someone could 752 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,920 Speaker 1: have done the business we were doing. But what I thought, 753 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,600 Speaker 1: when I am best is when I feel committed and 754 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,880 Speaker 1: passionate about what we're doing. And I could never feel 755 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: committed and passionate about something that I thought was harming people. 756 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 1: And I think, as there's one question, which is can 757 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,960 Speaker 1: capitalism even be good? Right? Can you? Can you do 758 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,720 Speaker 1: anything good in capitalism? And so if I was intent 759 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 1: on solving that or understanding or figuring it out, there's 760 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 1: no way I could do that and being like the 761 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,280 Speaker 1: most harmful system and um be, like what I realized 762 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,319 Speaker 1: is there was no private sector solution. And so what 763 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,440 Speaker 1: I would tell people is I think whatever you are 764 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 1: most committed to, most passionate about, and most effective, that 765 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:39,359 Speaker 1: is what will be your best uh selling is the 766 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 1: thing that you believe in the most of yourself and 767 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,120 Speaker 1: you feel the best about. And so for me, that 768 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,400 Speaker 1: just happened to be something else. But I think a 769 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: pivot uh speak is a is a sign of strength 770 00:40:49,120 --> 00:41:06,360 Speaker 1: on a sign of weakness. Black Tech Green Money is 771 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,799 Speaker 1: the production of Black of the Afro Tech on Black 772 00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,400 Speaker 1: Effect Podcast Network and Nheart Media. Is produced by Morgan 773 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,279 Speaker 1: Davon and me Well Lucas, with additional production support by 774 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,879 Speaker 1: Love Beach and Marissa Lewis. Special thank you to Michael 775 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 1: Davis since a carssa van Jan you know like the 776 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 1: wine and yes that's his real name. Learn more about 777 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,160 Speaker 1: my guests and other tech this wet that's an innovators 778 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: at afro tech dot com. The video version of this 779 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: episode will drop the Black Tech Green Money on YouTube 780 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 1: next week, so tapping enjoin your Black Tech Green Money, 781 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,840 Speaker 1: leave us a fire starlready on iTunes. Go get your money, 782 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:43,919 Speaker 1: Peace and love,