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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg p m L Podcast. I'm pim Fox.

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Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Bramowitz. Each day we

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Speaker 1: bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for

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Speaker 1: you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store

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Speaker 1: or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg p m L

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Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot Com. The

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Speaker 1: Treasury Department sent a survey to primary dealers asking very

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Speaker 1: detailed asking for very detailed responses to whether investors would

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Speaker 1: have an appetite for fifty or even one hundred year

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Speaker 1: US treasuries Now, how realistic is the potential for this

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Speaker 1: ultra long dated bond issueist issuance by the US. I

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Speaker 1: want to bring in Michael Clardy. He's head of US

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Speaker 1: interest rate strategy at RBC Capital Markets in New York. Michael,

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Speaker 1: can you give us a sense before we dig into

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Speaker 1: what the Treasure Department is looking for and how feasible

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Speaker 1: this would be? Do you feel like this latest survey

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Speaker 1: signals that the Treasury Department is much more serious about

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Speaker 1: ultralong dated bond issuance now than they have been in

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Speaker 1: the past. All Right, this is an issue that's been

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Speaker 1: out there for a while, but the specific nature of

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Speaker 1: these questions doesn't make it feel like we've moved a

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Speaker 1: little bit closer um to the decision on this. So

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Speaker 1: greater odds uh that we do get an ultralong bond.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about what they were looking for. They

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Speaker 1: want to know the appetite by investors, but also the

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Speaker 1: primary dealers have to play a pretty big role in

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Speaker 1: whether this happens or not. Right right, So, I think

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Speaker 1: the biggest challenge with an ultra long is going to

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Speaker 1: be how do you issue it? Issue it? The problem

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Speaker 1: for the US is that we have a lot of

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Speaker 1: debt outstanding already, We've got fourteen training to debt outstanding.

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Speaker 1: And if you look, there's lots of countries around the

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Speaker 1: world that issue ultralong bonds, but they all have much

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Speaker 1: smaller amounts of debt outstanding. So what they can do

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Speaker 1: is they can be tactical. They can they can wait

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Speaker 1: until they know there's demand for the bond, issue some

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Speaker 1: into those periods of strong demand, and then not issue

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Speaker 1: when there's weak demand. That works great if you only

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Speaker 1: have you know, a trillion dollars debt outstanding, when you've

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Speaker 1: got fourteen to be a relevant part of your overall

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Speaker 1: debt profile, you have to issue a lot of these

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Speaker 1: ultralong bonds, which means that you can't be tactical. You

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Speaker 1: have to issue every quarter regardless of market conditions. That

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Speaker 1: makes the issue is process highly risks. How big with

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Speaker 1: this ultra long portion of the market have to be

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Speaker 1: to be relevant? I mean, I think if you're at

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Speaker 1: anything less than you eventually want to get it up

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Speaker 1: to sort of five percent at least. Otherwise it's a

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Speaker 1: bit of a waste of time. It's a lot of bonds,

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Speaker 1: that is a lot of who is a lot of bonds?

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Speaker 1: Is there an all, Michael? Is there an alternative way

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Speaker 1: to achieve the same thing, which is to try to

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Speaker 1: lower or keep the cost of funding the government low? Well,

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Speaker 1: start with the with the ultra von, no without with

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Speaker 1: what exists currently, right, So, I mean one of the

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Speaker 1: one of the other questions with the ultra von is

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Speaker 1: if you issue a fifty year von, do you brand

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Speaker 1: brand new buyers are treasury debt or are you simply

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Speaker 1: gonna cannibalize people who would have bought thirties and have

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Speaker 1: them buy fifties instead? Um, I think you know you

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Speaker 1: would see a lot of cannibalizations. So the other alternative

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Speaker 1: if if they want to extend the average charity is

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Speaker 1: just to issue more thirties, issue more thirties. Or is

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Speaker 1: it possible to disconnect let's say the principal payment from

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Speaker 1: the interest payment on treasuries. You could so you could

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Speaker 1: issue what that's called it a strip, so you've stripped

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Speaker 1: away the coupons from the principal payment that you Actually,

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Speaker 1: I think see a lot of demand um for those

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Speaker 1: zero coupon long bonds. The one challenge of that is

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Speaker 1: they don't raise a lot of money for the Treasury.

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Speaker 1: So if I'm selling today a principal strip, that's um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't get paid on for thirty years

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Speaker 1: or fifty years um. The value of that strip is

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Speaker 1: very low. Um. So I'm not by selling it today,

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Speaker 1: I'm not bringing in a lot of money. No, I

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Speaker 1: was just gonna say, you know, I really was struck

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Speaker 1: by this survey. The reason being that Treasury Secretary Steve Minusan,

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Speaker 1: who's just getting his feet wet at this point, he

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Speaker 1: doesn't have all of the boots on the ground and

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Speaker 1: the Treasury Department that this is one of the the

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Speaker 1: initial moves is to really show that he's serious about

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Speaker 1: looking into this ultralong dated issuance. I mean, do you

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Speaker 1: think from an efficiency standpoint, from a financing standpoint, that

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Speaker 1: it would actually help the United States lower their borrowing

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Speaker 1: costs over a longer period. No. Um. If you look,

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Speaker 1: the Treasury has this Boring Advisor Committee. UM, it's a

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Speaker 1: group of different both sell side and buy side, the

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Speaker 1: investor based for their bonds. UM. They put out a

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Speaker 1: study in UH last back in February where they basically said,

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Speaker 1: if we look, if we if you look at the

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Speaker 1: last fifty years, at times when rates were rising, you

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Speaker 1: saved a tiny bit of money by issuing longer than normal.

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Speaker 1: But when rates are falling, issuing longer than normal costs

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Speaker 1: you a ton of money. So it's a very a

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Speaker 1: submistan asymmetrical savings versus UH costs of the government. That's

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Speaker 1: because normally there's a thing a risk premium matern premium.

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Speaker 1: By issuing a very long bond, you're the buyer of

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Speaker 1: that has a little more interest rate risk than if

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Speaker 1: they bought something short. UM. So normally you have to

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Speaker 1: pay that buyer for taking that risk over long horizons.

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Speaker 1: This tends to be costly. Now issuing today, might you

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Speaker 1: know face a small today. It might save a little

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Speaker 1: bit of money, but again the Treasury we have so

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Speaker 1: much dead outstanding UMU to really be important for the

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Speaker 1: financing cost, you'd have the issue a real lot today.

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Speaker 1: I want to thank you very much for your thoughts.

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Speaker 1: Michael Clardy is the head of US Interest rates Strategy

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Speaker 1: at RBC Capital Market, speaking about Treasury Secretary Stephen Nuchan's

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Speaker 1: comments about Ultra long u S Treasury bonds. Right now

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Speaker 1: we want to turn to UH. I p O is

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Speaker 1: different as class but equally important. I must admit I

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Speaker 1: want to bring in Sandy Miller, general partner at I

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Speaker 1: v P, the leader in tech I p O s.

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Speaker 1: He has done arguably more I p O s for

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Speaker 1: tech companies than anyone else. And Uh, Sandy, I want

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Speaker 1: to talk to you a little bit about about your

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Speaker 1: projection that this year we're going to see a really

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Speaker 1: dramatic number of technology companies come to market with initial

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Speaker 1: public offerings. Can you explain why? How many you expect

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Speaker 1: and you know what the demand is like for it? Sure,

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Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be a robust year. It's hard

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Speaker 1: to know the exact number, but I think we could

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Speaker 1: see now. I'm thinking here primarily of tech i p

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Speaker 1: o s, which is my area of focus, but I

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Speaker 1: think we're going to see, you know, in the range

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Speaker 1: of thirty to fifty I p o s this year.

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Speaker 1: We're off to a good start in the year. It

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Speaker 1: reflects a lot of pent up demand because we've had

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Speaker 1: a very very light I p o calendar again for

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Speaker 1: tech i p o s in the last three years,

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Speaker 1: despite the fact that the stock market has been in

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Speaker 1: a good place and there's so many great companies. So

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Speaker 1: the buyers are there. Obviously, institutional buyers like I POS

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Speaker 1: the source of alpha. Uh, the deals have been working.

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Speaker 1: Tech i p o s aout on average last year.

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Speaker 1: They're doing about the same so far this year. UM,

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Speaker 1: and people want new names. You know, half the there's

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Speaker 1: only half as many listed companies as the word twenty

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Speaker 1: years ago. So the wires are there, and then the

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Speaker 1: companies are there because there's more really strong tech companies

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Speaker 1: privately held still of scale called fifty million, hundred million,

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Speaker 1: two hundred million dollars and growing than we've ever had before.

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Speaker 1: In part because of course there haven't been very many

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Speaker 1: I p o s to take them out. So I think, uh,

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Speaker 1: the deals have been working well. The companies are ready

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Speaker 1: a lot of deals are on file already. Well. Fortunately

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Speaker 1: the Jobs Act is allowed the silent filing, which has

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Speaker 1: been a terrific uh thing for the sector. And uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's there's probably upwards of of you know,

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Speaker 1: more certainly more than five, maybe more than fifty, we

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Speaker 1: don't know for sure. Uh, the companies that have file

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Speaker 1: tech companies that have filed silently looking for I p

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Speaker 1: o s. It will come both this year and next year. Sandy,

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Speaker 1: you talked a little bit about the dearth of i

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Speaker 1: p o s and how the number of public realistic

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Speaker 1: companies has declined pretty dramatically. This is the source of

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Speaker 1: quite a bit of hand ringing, and the tech industry

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Speaker 1: is a perfect example. People are saying that there are

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Speaker 1: these companies that have grown to be the size where

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Speaker 1: they would have otherwise had an I p O for

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Speaker 1: a long time earlier, but they've been able to raise

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Speaker 1: so much money from venture capitalists and in the debt

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Speaker 1: markets that they haven't had to Can you explain why

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Speaker 1: these tech companies have waited so long? Well, I think

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Speaker 1: there as has been private financing available, if for tech companies,

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Speaker 1: primarily from equity rather than debt. Um and the companies

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Speaker 1: also have felt it was an easier road because they

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Speaker 1: didn't have the public scrutiny and they could take the

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Speaker 1: hard decisions that sometimes you have to make about you know,

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Speaker 1: business shifts and so on, that are tougher to do

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Speaker 1: in a public environment. But I think it was the

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Speaker 1: availability of the private capital that allowed them to really

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Speaker 1: do that. The private capital is still there today, but

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Speaker 1: the valuations today are better in the public market than

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Speaker 1: they are in the private market. And and so again,

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Speaker 1: and I think ultimately companies recognize they're going to need

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Speaker 1: um need the liquidity of going public and also the

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Speaker 1: brand building awareness uh that that a public offering brings.

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Speaker 1: So especially venture backed companies need to find an exit,

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Speaker 1: and the I p O has typically been the best exit,

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Speaker 1: in part because it can it can fuel m and A.

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Speaker 1: We saw that with one of our companies, have Dynamics,

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Speaker 1: a really strong company that was poised to do a

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Speaker 1: really successful I p O and then at the last minute,

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Speaker 1: Cisco came in and bought the company for a big premium.

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Speaker 1: I think we'll see more of that as well. Because

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Speaker 1: the i p O is actually catalyzed more m and

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Speaker 1: a activity Sandy is snapped considered a success absolutely the

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Speaker 1: the the company. I mean as whether something is a

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Speaker 1: long run success, and only we determine the long run.

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Speaker 1: But I think the I p O, if I assume

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Speaker 1: that's your question, I think the I p O is

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Speaker 1: very much a success. The priced you know, range revised up,

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Speaker 1: price above the range, trading above the range. There's always

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Speaker 1: volatility in these names, especially with companies that are super

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Speaker 1: high profile UM still in at the sation where they're

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Speaker 1: not you know, profitable companies. Uh, there's there's just more

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Speaker 1: volatility around them, and I think we'll see a fair

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Speaker 1: amount of volatility in the sector. But the overall a

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Speaker 1: very very strong year for I p O s and

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Speaker 1: also in the next year. Sandy. You noted that valuations

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Speaker 1: are better today in the public market than the private market.

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Speaker 1: Can you elaborate a little bit, Yeah, what I mean

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Speaker 1: by valuations, I mean multiples, because of course there's some

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Speaker 1: private you know that that are multiples reflecting the growth

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Speaker 1: rates of companies. But the uh, that's the normal environment.

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Speaker 1: Normally private companies are priced at some discount to publicly

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Speaker 1: public comparables growth adjusted, but we did go through a

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Speaker 1: period in particularly where that simply wasn't the case, and

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Speaker 1: the the private company multiples are actually higher than public

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Speaker 1: company multiples. That's an anomaly, UM, and it was sure

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Speaker 1: to correct and it has corrected. It's not a weak

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Speaker 1: private market. We're still a robust private market. There's the

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Speaker 1: available for for good companies. There's good prices, but it's

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Speaker 1: more balanced, and that's making the public market UM look

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Speaker 1: more attractive to companies UM that we're kind of trying

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Speaker 1: to choose between the private and the public market. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Sandy Miller is the general partner of Institutional Venture Partners

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Speaker 1: based in San Francisco. Speaking about the potential torrent of

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Speaker 1: technology initial public offerings coming this year, we want to

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com slash lens. The afternoon attack in Paris

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Speaker 1: yesterday killed a policeman and has further aggravated the situation

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Speaker 1: in France as the country goes to the polls this weekend.

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Speaker 1: Here to tell us more, as Irene Finel Hannigman, Adjunct

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Speaker 1: Professor of International Affairs at Columbia University. Irene, thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us. Let's get your impressions first of

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Speaker 1: what this means for the election in France. Well, I

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Speaker 1: think this clearly created an additional shock, as we now

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Speaker 1: know that the perpetrator was an Islamis terrorist again who

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Speaker 1: actually even known to the police uh and maybe affiliated

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Speaker 1: with what happened in Mark, say a few days ago.

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Speaker 1: The real concern is whether this will harden or even

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Speaker 1: increase Mathine Rapin, the extreme right wing candidate support she's

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Speaker 1: supposed to have about almost matched with the Centris McColl.

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Speaker 1: Her support may increase, However, the question is whether at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, this may not also actually

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Speaker 1: help the former Prime Minister of Francoisfidon, whose support was

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Speaker 1: eroding because of scandals, but who may look as if

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Speaker 1: he is a more sound and experienced type of politician,

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Speaker 1: able to basically take away some of Matine Rapine's support

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Speaker 1: and still present a very strong pro security yet at

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Speaker 1: the same time solid economic program. So right now, this

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Speaker 1: has made a volatile situation even more volatile and very concerning. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, can we get any sense of how it

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Speaker 1: is being received by voters by how this news is

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Speaker 1: being covered by the French media. Well, I think this

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Speaker 1: happened so quick ly, and the thing that was very

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Speaker 1: dramatic was it actually occurred during the last presidential debate,

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Speaker 1: which was taking place last night when it occurred, and

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Speaker 1: so they were very very quickly responding. Our French of

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Speaker 1: the campaign has been suspended today and in a way

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Speaker 1: this may sort of perhaps calm things a little bit

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Speaker 1: down right now, the media seems to be responding in

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Speaker 1: France almost hour by hours. More information is coming in.

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Speaker 1: The candidates are not making any statements, except for the

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Speaker 1: extreme left wing communist candidate Menancham, who said he will

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Speaker 1: continue to give us speeches and rally his supporters, which

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Speaker 1: may actually work against him. And may be seen as

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Speaker 1: exactly the wrong response. Uh so this is kind of

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Speaker 1: where we're at. The French press is again sort of

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Speaker 1: a little bit all over the place right now, difficult

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Speaker 1: to know exactly how they said. Definitely this is good.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately for Marie Lepine. We knew that she would make

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Speaker 1: it through the first round. She may make it now

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Speaker 1: with support That actually increases The question is does Felon

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Speaker 1: or does the new young centrist candidate Emmanuel McColl who

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Speaker 1: was supposed to have about which one of those two

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Speaker 1: really make it into the into the contention with mariein

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Speaker 1: Rapin That is really going to be the big question.

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Speaker 1: Now we don't know at this point. I mean, does

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Speaker 1: it matter who wins the election because the French parliamentary

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Speaker 1: system is such that perhaps the power of the president

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Speaker 1: would be limited to let's say, move forward with changes

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Speaker 1: to the French participation in the European Union. Well, I

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Speaker 1: think um in a way, in part portion fortunately and unfortunately, actually,

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Speaker 1: the French presidency is quite a bit stronger than the

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Speaker 1: system which is much more faction based in other European countries.

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Speaker 1: So the powers of the president are fairly large in France.

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Speaker 1: It's also the president who would clearly be picking his

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Speaker 1: cabinets prime minister if it was Matthin Lepan because of

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Speaker 1: her really dangerous and incoherent economic program. It would also

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Speaker 1: immediately create a huge shock on the markets and a

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Speaker 1: huge shock on what would be seen as the future

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Speaker 1: of France, the future of the European Union at that point.

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Speaker 1: So I think it does make an enormous difference, uh,

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Speaker 1: even before we start to look at the more complex

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Speaker 1: makeup of the of the parliamentary grouping. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: know you mentioned that the attack happened during a presidential debate.

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Speaker 1: Was that intentional? We don't know, you know. I I

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Speaker 1: think the horrible thing is that at this point it

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Speaker 1: seems that a lot of these attacks may be very

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Speaker 1: much premeditated orchestrated. It seems that information is coming out

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Speaker 1: very quickly, hard to know. May very well be the

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Speaker 1: case because the attack that was actually aborted in March

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Speaker 1: SI was the purpose of it was presumingly to dis

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Speaker 1: rupted the presidential election. Um, so this this may have

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Speaker 1: some link. I mean the election, the first round takes

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Speaker 1: place on Sunday, and then the second round is May seven.

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Speaker 1: Do you know if the European Union has any plan

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Speaker 1: for response if Marine Lepan and the far left candidate

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Speaker 1: Jean mcmlchan actually make it to that May seventh runoff.

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Speaker 1: I am not sure at this point. I think actually

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Speaker 1: everyone sort of is is just kind of holding their

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Speaker 1: breath uh and doesn't want in any way to step in.

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Speaker 1: The problem is that any comments or remarks or statements

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Speaker 1: coming out of the European Union may in fact only

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Speaker 1: worsen uh the anti EU approach that Marine Leepan already has.

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Speaker 1: It may just increased support uh, and she'll certainly play

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Speaker 1: on that. So I think everyone will try to stay

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Speaker 1: as far away as possible. That's why it was even

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Speaker 1: a little bit disturbing that Obama decided to call the

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Speaker 1: Centers candidate mccon This was not necessary yesterday because one

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Speaker 1: of the issues is McCall is often already accused of

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Speaker 1: being a little bit babst pro American because Mopolitan this

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Speaker 1: doesn't help. Well, thank you, we really we we. Unfortunately

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Speaker 1: we have to leave it there. Thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for your comments. Professor Irene Finilla hanig Mans adject professor

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Speaker 1: of International Affairs at Columbia University based in New York City,

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Speaker 1: talking about the attack in Paris and the ripple effects

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Speaker 1: into the ongoing election. Well, let would be the first

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Speaker 1: to wish you a happy earth Day. It's a little

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Speaker 1: bit premature, but tomorrow is earth Day is celebrated worldwide.

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Speaker 1: It was first celebrated in nine seventy and one of

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Speaker 1: the questions that comes up is why is the United

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Speaker 1: States so far behind when it comes to recycling materials.

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Speaker 1: Here to tell us in give us more information about

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Speaker 1: Earth Day is Jim Fishy is the chief executive of

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Speaker 1: Waste Management. Jim, thanks very much for for coming in.

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Speaker 1: I was looking up some statistics and it turns out

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Speaker 1: that in the United States we've got low landfill fees,

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Speaker 1: plus we've got a fragmented waste management system, and that

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Speaker 1: just puts our rate at recycling at like that seems

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Speaker 1: very low. You know, I think it's I think you're right.

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Speaker 1: I think it is lower than we'd like. And part

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Speaker 1: of our objective is to try and get people to

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Speaker 1: truly recycle more. I mean, and and that sounds a

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Speaker 1: little cliche, but what I mean by that is put

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Speaker 1: every plastic bottle, put every piece of cardboard and mixed paper,

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Speaker 1: put every can in your recycle bin. Unfortunately, our model

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Speaker 1: is one that encourages people to also put, in addition

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Speaker 1: to recycling and recycle materials, put trash because it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a you have a bin that basically collects everything,

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Speaker 1: and and so there's an education process that's required of

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Speaker 1: us to let people know that that your garden hose

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Speaker 1: and your Christmas Lie's and your garden rake, it is

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Speaker 1: kind of seasonal, by the way, those things don't necessarily

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Speaker 1: go through a recycled plan. So how does your company

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Speaker 1: deal with those garbage items that get mixed up with

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Speaker 1: the recycling, Well, it ends up coming up a big

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Speaker 1: conveyor belt and then it gets either hand or machine separated,

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Speaker 1: and that that garden hose. Hopefully the garden hose doesn't

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Speaker 1: wrap around the wheel and shut down the entire plant,

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Speaker 1: which does happen, but a lot of that materially, the

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Speaker 1: garden rake tends to get typically gets pulled off manually

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Speaker 1: and goes into the trash. And so when we think

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Speaker 1: about what's what's recycled, we've got to make sure that

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Speaker 1: that's what's recycled truly becomes something else. That's the definition

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Speaker 1: of recycling is that you take a plastic bottle and

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Speaker 1: turn it into another plastic battle or some other use.

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Speaker 1: So well, let's talk about that. So when you talk

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Speaker 1: about recycling, when you talk about the rate that Pim

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Speaker 1: just cited, does that mean that sort of people effectively

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Speaker 1: sort a cent of their garbage or does it meant

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Speaker 1: of the garbage is taken and then we've we we

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Speaker 1: processed into something else that can be used. It's really

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Speaker 1: the ladder. I mean, you know, people look at diversion

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Speaker 1: and and diversion means that the first step away from

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Speaker 1: the curb is someplace other than a landfill. So if

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Speaker 1: I if I take a percent of my material at

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Speaker 1: my house and put it into my recycle bin, then

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Speaker 1: then I have diverted a percent of my material by

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Speaker 1: that definition. Unfortunately, what happens is when it gets to

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Speaker 1: the recycled plant half of it. If that's how much

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Speaker 1: of my trash of are my recycled binness trash, half

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Speaker 1: of it ends up ultimately going to a landfill anyway.

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Speaker 1: And our goal is to make sure that people understand

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Speaker 1: that the goal is not to divert a the goal

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Speaker 1: is to recycle ad and that means turn that into

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Speaker 1: something of use on the back end, not just send

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Speaker 1: it to a recycle plant so that they can pull

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Speaker 1: that garden rake out and ultimately send that garden rate

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Speaker 1: to a landfill. Are the recycling plants that currently exist,

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Speaker 1: are they at equated? No, they're not. The recycled plants

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Speaker 1: that we have are are have new technology. We're refreshing

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Speaker 1: that technology as we go. We're putting things like optical

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Speaker 1: sorters in that that read the types of plastic coming

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Speaker 1: up that that conveyor belt. But there is a lot

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Speaker 1: of material that comes up the conveyor belt, and and

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Speaker 1: it ranges from things like those garden hoses to bowling

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Speaker 1: balls and and and really everything out of the sun. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: there is there are some some components of that process

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Speaker 1: that haven't changed in twenty years, but it is. There

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Speaker 1: is a lot of technology being brought to the reason.

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Speaker 1: The reason I bring that up is because I know

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Speaker 1: that major corporations such as Coca Cola and Walmart. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they have all pledged to add more recycled material to

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Speaker 1: their packaging, but the companies say that they struggle to

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Speaker 1: find the actual material and that supply is actually a problem.

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Speaker 1: You know, I can't speak to whether supply is a

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Speaker 1: problem for those folks. Were not on that end. We

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Speaker 1: do provide. We're the biggest recycler in North America, so

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Speaker 1: we have a lot of supply coming out of our plants. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: a lot of it goes to China. Almost almost of

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Speaker 1: our newsprint goes to China because they're the only buyer

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Speaker 1: of that newsprint. Probably mixed paper goes to China, and

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Speaker 1: about of cardboard goes to China. And so hence the

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Speaker 1: volatility by the way in pricing, when when when one

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Speaker 1: customer controls that bigger percentage, if they decide not to buy,

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Speaker 1: as they have recently with newsprint, the price really can

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Speaker 1: can can be volable. How much more expensive is it

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Speaker 1: for a municipality to recycle versus just directing its waste

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Speaker 1: to a landfill. Well, in theory, the theory has always

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Speaker 1: been that you can provide recycling for a nominal a

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Speaker 1: nominal charge, and then the recycler makes money on the

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Speaker 1: back end. So when when that material goes through the plant,

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Speaker 1: we make money when we sell the plastics on the

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Speaker 1: back end or the cardboards on the back end. But

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Speaker 1: you've got to be careful with that formula because if

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Speaker 1: prices are in are in a kind of an all

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Speaker 1: time lows, and we're sharing a piece of of of

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Speaker 1: the back in sales, and yet our cost to process

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Speaker 1: is higher than the commodity price. You can end up

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Speaker 1: in a in a position where the recycler is not

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Speaker 1: making any money. And so we we've changed the model

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00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 1: a bit over the last twelve months so to the

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00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: municipality paying a little bit more, right exactly, I mean

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00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: we want them to share on the upside when things

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00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: are good as they are right now, and on the

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00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 1: downside when when prices are low, then then we shouldn't

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00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: pay a rebate when the price is below our cost.

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00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 1: What form is the plastic and the paper in when

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00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: you sell it, well, it's bailed, I mean we we

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00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: and we separate the plastics into different types of A

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00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 1: big tide bottle is a different type of plastic than

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00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: than a plastic the sawny water bottle, for example. So

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00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: so we separate those plastics. Some are are lower value.

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00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 1: The high value plastics tend to be those two sawny

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00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: water bottles, and those are are fantastic for us. And

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00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: and so we bail those and and send them onto

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Speaker 1: to someone who's going to use them and recycle them.

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Speaker 1: Are there other countries that are better at recycling and

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00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 1: what can we learn? Well, as it's a great question,

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00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: there are countries that are better at it. I would

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00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 1: tell you that that when you we've all been to Europe,

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00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 1: and when you go to Europe, they don't have what

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00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: we use today is as single stream recycling. So single

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00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: stream means everything goes in one bin and then we

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00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: separate it. Typically in Europe there they we call them

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00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 1: dual stream, and they source separate everything. So so when

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00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: you go to a house in Germany, they separate their

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00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: own glass from their plastics, from their from their aluminums

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00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: and papers, and then it's picked up separately. So you

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00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: can imagine that that stream is much cleaner, you know

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00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: when you get today glass that benefit the United States,

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Speaker 1: I mean if we were able to adopt it at

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Speaker 1: a municipal level. You know, the theory was that we

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00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: would do that. Single stream would enable people to recycle

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00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: more and because now they don't have to separate it,

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00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: they don't have to go through their own uh you know,

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00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 1: do their own work that will separate it for them.

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00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,239
Speaker 1: That was the theory behind single stream, and I think

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00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 1: to some extent that has helped, you know, increase the

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00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: amount of recycled material, but it's also increasing amount of

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00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: trash that people put in. And I think the answer

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00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 1: to that is a better education process, so people really

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00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 1: understand that this commodity, this, that this garden hose is

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00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 1: not recyclable, whereas the plastic bottle is. Jim Fish, thank

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00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us to Fish is president

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00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: of Waste Management, which is based in Houston, Texas, and

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00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: focuses on recycling materials such as plastic. Those two sawny

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00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: water bottles which are high quality plastic as well as

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00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: other things, but not your garden hose, So don't put

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00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 1: it in because it will clog up their systems. That

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00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 1: seems to be the message. Uh. He joins us today

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Speaker 1: on Earth Day, where we look for ways to make

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Speaker 1: sure that our earth stays beautiful. Thanks for listening to

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00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg P and L podcast. You can subscribe and

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00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 1: listen to interviews that Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whatever podcast

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00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 1: platform you prefer. I'm Pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at

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00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at Lisa abramowits one before

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00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 1: the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide on Bluebirg

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00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: Radio