WEBVTT - Discontinued 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:08.680 Nobody knew anything. I was first. I'm the first to 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:13.800 get a military diagnosis four injuries related to methicomplexosity. I'm 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:16.880 the first to get a VA rating. They called me 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:17.880 Sheeral number one. 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:24.000 As directed by the US military commander Bill Minofsky, took 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:27.080 an any malarial pill called methliquin for five months at 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:30.080 the dawn of the Iraq War. It's the same drug 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:32.960 that Robert Bails's defense team claims may have altered the 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:38.360 staff sergeant's mental state during his time overseas. Menofsky experience 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:41.879 firsthand how methlicquin can negatively affect a soldier on deployment. 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:44.680 Really nobody was warned. 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:48.040 So what I noticed looking back was I started getting 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:51.159 really angry, and show did most of the guys on 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:53.920 the deployment. There was a lot of anxiety, a lot 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:58.200 of frustration, and people were just snapping each other. I 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:02.600 thought I was drinking too much coffee. That then transitioned 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:08.679 into paranoia, like I was responsible for the problems, like 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:12.240 it was all my fault. And then I started having 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:18.440 the dreams, these crazy, vivid dreams. I had an incident 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:21.560 three days before the Iraq War started. I was out 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:26.400 in the Dari bombing range with Shield Team three Sins 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:29.319 in the dead and night, no moon. We had these 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:32.039 gunships coming right over It's about fifty feet over our head, 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:36.119 really loud, and they were shooting these flashing rockets at 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:40.480 targets down range. So I had all this visual stimuli 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:43.920 coming in and after about five minutes I got sick. 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:48.120 I started getting furtigo really bad, to the point where 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:48.800 I stood up. 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:50.680 I go, guys, I can't do this anymore. 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:54.560 And there I was helping plan the Iraq war and 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:59.800 I'm on a drug that can cause anxiety, depression, hallucinations, 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:01.440 and behavior. 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:07.200 Previously on the war within what you have described here 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:09.639 sounds like a recipe for disaster. 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:13.520 We were drinking some booze, seven drinks per Guy. 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:16.200 Bales was in charge of the medics. You could get 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:17.280 whatever the hell he wanted. 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:19.919 It started taking steroids early February. 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:23.040 If you take someone who attends towards the violence and 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:26.079 you give them something that could make them even more violent, 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:27.639 it could be a catastrophic situation. 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:30.440 They didn't remember the name of the drug, right I 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:31.480 remember the effects. 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:34.520 They called it Mafflickman Monday's We're gonna see fairies we're 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:35.239 gonna seek shit. 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:39.200 Bale's was paranoid, and he was deluded, and he was 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:40.679 suffering from hallucinations. 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:43.480 When I hear the Bail's story, the first thing I 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:45.640 think of is mufflickrn First. 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:49.519 On, I'm Mike McGinnis. This is the war within the 0:02:49.639 --> 0:03:01.080 Robert Bayles story. If Robert Bales has any hope of 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:03.960 one day leaving the Fort Levelworth Disciplinary Barracks a freeman, 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:08.480 it'll likely be because his attorney, John Mayer, successfully argued 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:12.160 that he was experiencing meflquin induced psychosis when he committed 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:13.120 the Kandahar massacre. 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:16.880 Our team's position is that the mefloquin carries to day. 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:20.440 You're gonna give a guy a poison by order and 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:24.440 not disclose it. The entire landscape of this case could 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:25.040 have changed. 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:28.239 For Marr to be right, two key points would have 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:33.280 to be true. Number One, mefloquin is poison, at least 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:37.520 for some who take it, And two, Bales definitively took 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:41.080 the drug during his time in service. We can begin 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:44.080 to explore whether meflquin is actually toxic by hearing the 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:49.040 story of Commandermanofsky, an outspoken veteran whose life was forever changed. 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:51.840 After beginning his regimen of meflquin. 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:55.560 My volunteer to go to the Iraq war. Right at 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:58.600 the last minute, I was called into the clinic. The 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:03.080 korman handed me six foil packs of hilarium wrapped in 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:05.160 a rubber band. I didn't even get it in a box. 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:07.520 And they said start taking this once a week, and 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:10.480 I go okay, And that's how I got the drug 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:14.480 and went into this descent of madness. 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:17.720 Larium is the brand name for the drug methotly, just 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:22.120 as advil is really ibuprofen. Some people use the terms interchangeably. 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:26.440 By March of two thousand and three, three months after 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:29.359 he had begun taking to any mallarial, the Commander was 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:33.000 displaying behavior uncharacteristic of a long tenured warrior. 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:35.840 I had flickerburder go like you get in a helicopter. 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:40.200 I went out in the desert, and not to be 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:44.719 too graphic, but I emptied my bowels in the desert. 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:47.880 Then I went back to where the trucks were parked, 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:51.040 and I kid you not, I threw up for an 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:51.799 hour straight. 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:53.600 I timed it. 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:56.400 I then went back to my rack and the tent, 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:59.680 and I was in bed for three days. I got 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:02.680 up the third day went to take a shower, and 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:04.760 that's when I was in the shower the first SCUD 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:08.640 missile was launched into Kuwait. That's when the Iraq War started. 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:13.320 Minowski was a highly trusted operator with top secret security clearance, 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:16.200 but when it came time to fight the Iraqi army, 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:18.680 he could barely trust himself to get through the day. 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:21.560 Shield Team five when I made a deploy with them 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:24.440 to Bagdad to help them do their mission planning there, 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:27.640 and I told him, I said, guys, I can't go. 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:29.640 I was within five minutes of getting on a helicopter 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:31.920 going with them, and I said I can't go. I'm 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:33.600 going to be a met about casualty. I feel like 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.800 I got the flu. I mean, I was really sick. 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:41.320 So I went home and I was coughing my lungs out. 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:45.200 Now I thought it was from the dust storms. So 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.680 they administered robotusting with coating, and I told him I 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:49.800 cannot take coding. 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:50.839 It makes me sick. 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:53.320 And they flat out told me, if you don't take 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:55.440 this stuff, you're refusing treatment and we don't have to 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:58.760 take care of you anymore. So I started taking the 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:02.560 robotusing with coding and that it was six May two 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:03.279 thousand and three. 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:05.160 That's when everything started going downhill. 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:09.480 And after that I was in the hospital five times 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:13.400 for panic attacks. And that's when I started getting the 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:18.560 tremors and the shakes and I started stuttering. I couldn't walk. 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:21.880 If you looked at me, I looked like I had Parkinson's. 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:26.159 That lasted probably a year and a half, and I'm 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:28.520 convinced that I still had the drug in me. 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:36.159 Minofsky was physically eroding in real time. Meanwhile, intermittent hallucinations 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:38.200 were warping his perception of reality. 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:44.120 When I came back from the war, I had audio hallucinations. 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:49.680 I was in my secretary's office and she went to 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:53.720 pick up the phone. It sounded like somebody dialing a 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:56.920 Touchtowne phone real fast. Now that happened to be the 0:06:56.960 --> 0:07:01.520 preamble to the air raid alarm on base in Kuwait. 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:05.000 It always started with this very quick touch tone sound 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:09.640 and then it would go alarm green, alarm, yellow, alarm red. 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:12.640 A couple days later, I was in Walmart with my 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:16.680 wife and I heard the same thing over the intercom 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:18.480 and I looked at my wife and I go did 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:19.760 you hear that, she goes, no. 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:21.000 What are you talking about? 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:24.239 And then I had kind of a visual hallucination one time, 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:30.520 right after a very severe panic attack in my psychologist office, 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:35.440 I came outside and the sky was purple, and there 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:41.320 were purple areas around everything. The craziest thing, and iraq. 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:45.160 I think I was on you know, day three of 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:49.160 you know, fourteen hour days, and I see walking across 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:50.160 the bridge. 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:52.920 What looked to be a purple. 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:57.640 Ghosts, purple visions. Menofski and Bales have never met one another, 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:02.080 but elements of their stories do match, for example, a 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:04.480 tendency towards random acts of violence. 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:09.560 The week of May sixth, two thousand and three, I 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:11.920 took my wife up to the Kern River to go 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:16.440 trout fishing, and she couldn't cast her fishing line. She 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:19.240 didn't know how to use an open real spool, and 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:21.760 I got violently angry at her. I went to punch 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:28.600 her out for that. Meflquin causes rage. I woke up 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:32.920 one night in a cute panic attack. I went and 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:36.840 got my nineteen eleven forty five pistol and I took 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:40.480 it apart out of fear that I would wake up 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:42.560 in the morning with my wife dead in the pool 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:44.000 of blood on the floor in the morning. 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:46.320 That's how bad this is. 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:53.439 Just a short while after he began taking mefloquin, Minofsky 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:59.439 was nearly unrecognizable. His anti malarial expert, doctor Remington Nevin, explains, 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:03.000 not everybody responds to the drug in the same way. 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:07.800 For whatever reason, it appears that people have different tolerances. 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:12.760 Most people have some ability to detoxify the drug, but 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:16.840 in some people, we think this drug accumulates in their 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:21.240 brain tissue where it begins to exert its adverse physiological effects, 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:25.360 causing symptoms like disturbed sleep nightmares. You'll start to see 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:28.719 the anxiety and panic, and perhaps over time, as the 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.240 drug accumulates, you'll see the more severe symptoms such as 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:34.360 over its psychosis and irreversible neurotoxicity. 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:41.360 Robert Bales may have never been hospitalized for mafloquine toxicity, 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:44.679 but many of the telltale signs were on display at 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:49.040 vsp bellmpy impulsive rage when he beat up an Afghan 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:55.679 truck driver and nod fixation with the tree, disturbed sleep, paranoia. 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:58.520 You know it's getting worse, bro Like, it's getting worse. 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:01.720 You know you see the bad guy, and you know 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:03.680 what he's going to do, but you can't do anything 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:08.040 about it. Right, You know what's going to happen, right, 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:12.800 You feel it. You feel these things closing in on you, 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:17.280 over and over and over again. It's the anticipation of death, 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:19.040 probably way worse than the death itself. 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:20.560 You know something's coming. 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:25.800 In that anticipation of whatever's coming is what makes you paranoid. 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:26.559 I guess. 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:33.840 Attorney John Marr is not the only person asserting that 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:37.760 methlquhen is toxic, but the question of whether Bales has 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:41.120 ever used this anti mallarial has not been a straightforward. 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:44.319 Prosecutor Jane Morris claims that have found nothing about the 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:45.679 drug in Bales's file. 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:48.959 There was an allegation that he was on anti malarials 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:51.760 that caused him to do this. We I mean, we 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:55.400 did a more than thorough search of all medical records 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:57.840 for Bail's entire time in the army. You could find 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:00.600 no evidence not only if Bail's not taking larian, but 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.920 anyone in his unit ever taking it. My recollection is 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:06.920 that the only evidence that there was ever any mafluquin 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:10.800 was from one person who had been in Baile's company. 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:13.720 Not even in Bales's platoon, who made a sworn statement 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:17.520 that he remembers being given mafluquin's like in two thousand 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:19.920 and six, six years prior to the Act. 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:22.600 John Mayer puts a lot of stock in that sworn 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:27.280 statement referenced by Mors to him, everything that a jury 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:29.800 needs to know about whether Bales took maflequin can be 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.240 answered in the affidavit of what Gregory Rao. 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.520 The direct evidence that we have is that Specialist Rao 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:39.480 was standing next to Bob Information at some point. In 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:43.280 his affidavit, unchallenged by the government, says yo, Yeah, every 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:45.560 Monday we had mafflquin Mondays and they came out. We 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:47.120 all had to drink it. We all had to drop it, 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:49.439 and we look forward to those methicuin Mondays because we'd 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:50.520 all start seeing stuff. 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:55.000 We also got confirmation from Bailes's former platoon teammate David Wesley, 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:58.319 although our producer Max had to remind him of the 0:11:58.400 --> 0:11:59.439 name of the drug. 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:02.880 You remember the name of the malar drug, U Tuck. 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:08.119 I think it's it was like methema, meth l chloroquin 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:10.439 or some craziness mathquin. 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:11.840 Yeah, there is. 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:15.440 You get these like just fucked up dreams, man like 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:16.920 just wild. 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:20.439 We took it once a week, remember, Doc states, he 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:22.480 would come around, he had the sheet, he would give 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:25.000 you a pill, he'd check you off your sheet, and 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:26.520 then we had the crazy dreams. 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:30.480 Speaking from personal experience, just about everybody was required to 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.360 take methliquin during the height of the Iraq War. It 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:36.280 was just one of many responsibilities that we had as soldiers. 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:40.160 What remains unclear is whether Bales was on anti mallarials 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:44.240 while in Afghanistan. Private Gavin Jones recalls that at VSP 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.920 Bellum by most mandatory policies weren't really mandatory. 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:50.560 No, I did not take any of that. No, I 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.199 just didn't didn't seem appealing to me. I'll wrestle with 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.040 at malaria before I want to have like stomach ache. 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:56.920 To be honest, now that I think about it, I 0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:58.520 don't think anyone took any of that medication. 0:12:58.800 --> 0:12:59.760 No one that actually came out to. 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:02.160 Like, alright, guys taking a builders go like, No, I'm 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:03.640 pretty sure we just tossed that shit up. 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:06.600 Soldier X, the person who will not be named in 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:10.520 this podcast, remembers Mefloquin being at the base, But that 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.320 doesn't necessarily mean Bales was taking it. 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:16.360 You know, I took mof quinn maybe your hair four times, 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:18.920 but it was not as directed every d anybody means, 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:22.080 I don't know that my version of Bales taking morf 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:24.080 quinn in the prescribed manner either. 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:29.280 Why is this such a debate. If Baals took mafliquin, 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:32.720 it should be in his medical records, which were analyzed 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:37.200 by the prosecution, defense and Independent Sanity Board during the 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:38.400 trial in twenty thirteen. 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:43.160 So we have an obligation to disclose any evidence that 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:46.080 might go to the favor of the accused, right to 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.000 the favor of the defendant. But there's zero evidence of mafloquin, 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:51.240 and so every time they would bring it up the 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:54.200 defense team, we would just say there's zero evidence, Like 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:55.560 you're not allowed to even talk about this. 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:02.640 Mefloquin wasn't in Baal's file, but Commander Minovsky doctor Nevin 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.560 claimed that it wasn't in the files of most soldiers 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:06.120 who took it. 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:09.720 If it's not in bals record, it's like it wasn't 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:13.960 in anybody else's record either. My deployment team, they didn't 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:17.520 get it into their record. The hundreds of veterans that 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.800 I talked to did not get it in their medical records. 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:26.040 The events of that era are odd. A couple months 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:29.880 before the events in question, the top doctor of the 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:33.480 military basically said, hey, look, we have a problem. Meflicuin 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:38.160 has been handed out without adequate documentation and without proper 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:42.680 consideration of contraindications. And unfortunately, I think the courts have 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:46.520 been misinformed by the government, by the prosecution that the 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:50.640 evidence is conclusive in showing that bails never took meflick win. 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:54.520 And I think the courts just didn't realize that what 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:58.560 the medical records show is often not a good reflection 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:02.160 of reality, and in this particular case, one has to 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:06.000 probe a little bit more to understand the full picture. 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:10.440 In the US military, just about everything is written down somewhere. 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:13.280 You can't order pens without putting it in a report. 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:17.240 So for widespread use of mefloquin and its side effects, 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:20.960 to go and document it, it's either completely untrue, a 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:27.000 sign of gross inconfidence, or perhaps something more insidious. Minofsky 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:29.560 told us the following over the phone. 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:35.080 Our larium came in foil packs. The foil pack was 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:41.080 five pills. There was a blank spot all right where 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:43.920 they wrote the name of the drug and everything down, 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:48.760 and they didn't get it in their medical records. I 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:52.160 think that was deliberate, considering if you look at my 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:56.040 shot cart, it's got everything listed. But I went into 0:15:56.120 --> 0:16:01.760 my pharmacy record no record of matlock Win being given 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:04.160 to me. When I found that out on I just 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:06.480 hut blew a galey and I go, you gotta begin. 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:20.880 They knew it was bad. 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:18.040 To say that the government was providing as soldiers with 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:21.560 an anti mallarial that they knew was defective and dangerous. 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:26.960 That's a potentially explosive development. It's a claim that doctor 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.360 Nevin has staked his reputation on proving to be true 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:32.000 both during and after his service. 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:35.600 I was familiar with Meflicklin. As part of my training, 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:39.840 we were taught that Mefflicklin was safe and effective medication 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:44.280 if used as directed. But I realized that this dogma, 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:47.480 this training that I received on meflick when the institutional 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:52.480 beliefs on the drug were incorrect, the drug was far 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:56.640 more dangerous. As I began to ask questions about Meflicklin, 0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:01.640 I was receiving a lot more pushback from my seniors 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:05.680 than I had expected, and so that made me think 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:08.960 maybe there's something to this. I quickly realized that I 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:11.880 could do more work on this issue outside the military. 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:15.280 But it's still understood within the higher offices of the 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:18.200 DODNVA that one should not speak ill of Meflickman, because 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:20.280 what are you doing if you do that? If you 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:24.119 publish a paper that shows this drug is associated with 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:27.040 a significant burden of disability, you've just cost the VA 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:28.560 billions of dollars. 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.720 Attorney and veentor in John Maher applauds Nevin for speaking 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:35.680 up when many others have opted to remain silent. 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:40.399 Doctor Nevin he sacrificed his army career command surgeon Major 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:44.320 eighty second or more for brad because his research came 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:48.199 around saying this antimilarial drug is killing people. 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:52.679 When you hear the full scope of doctor Nevn's findings, 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:55.520 it's not terribly surprising to learn that he's no longer 0:17:55.560 --> 0:18:00.240 employed by the military after all. Is polarizing opinion is 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:04.359 that this negligence surrounding meflquin had gone on for decades. 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:07.920 Going back to World War Two. It's not an exaggeration 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:12.119 to say that our top military leaders view the availability 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:14.240 of anti malarial drugs the same way they view the 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:19.960 availability of nuclear weapons as a safeguard to national security. 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:23.720 We had very limited stockpiles, and so in the Vietnam era, 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:27.800 a large scale project began to synthesize these drugs, and 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:31.679 that led in nineteen sixty nine to the first reported 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:36.000 synthesis of meflicuin. For whatever reason, the military decided mefloquin 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:38.240 is our drug. They had a handful of alternatives that 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.080 were also in development, but the literature from the early 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:44.720 seventies makes it very clear they wanted mefliquin to be 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:45.359 their drug. 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:49.800 After the military handpicked meflquin as their anti malarial they 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:53.520 were responsible for securing a manufacturer and distributor for the drug. 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:57.199 In this case, that would be a Swiss pharmaceuticals giant 0:18:57.280 --> 0:18:58.200 named the Roche. 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:02.720 Apparently, the military approached every single pharmaceutical manufacturer and none 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:06.520 were willing to get the drug through the approval process 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:09.520 and market the drug, probably because many drugs of this 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:15.040 class caused irreversible, significant lesions to form in the brains 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:19.240 and the brain steps. For whatever reason, Roche raised their 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:22.600 hand and said fine, we'll do it. Perhaps Roche did 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:25.800 the math and realized the military will buy large quantities, 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:27.879 They'll give us a lot of money. They've done all 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:30.879 their research, They've basically paid for the development of the drug. 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:34.639 So there's fundamentally no cost to Roche, and beside the 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:37.840 possibility of some lawsuits down the line, very little risk. 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:41.919 The US Food and Drug Administration exist for a reason. 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:45.040 Roche in the military might have agreed to partner on 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:48.720 making methlic win, but an independent agency still needs to 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:52.520 make sure that it's safe for use. That said, the 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.800 FDA can't make a decision with information it doesn't have. 0:19:56.880 --> 0:20:00.760 The initial submission to FDA didn't even make mention of 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:06.040 psychiatric effects, So when mefliquin was first being licensed under 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:09.680 pressure from the US military, the doctors at FDA reviewing 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:14.560 the file had no understanding that this drug could cause 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:19.840 psychiatric effects when used in prevention. In nineteen eighty nine, 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:24.000 that was approved. Almost immediately, the World Health Organization comes 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:28.520 out with a document expressing fairly grave concerns, essentially saying, 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:31.640 it looks like this drug has neuropsychiatric potentially, it looks 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:36.119 like this drug causes neuropsychiatric symptoms anxiety and depression. And 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:41.280 so what followed that was a remarkable period over two 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:45.520 or three years, where the military in Roche and others 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:51.560 worked furiously to manufacture doubt about these findings. 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:55.600 Ultimately, Roche in the military went out and almost immediately 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:59.920 mefloquin was being distributed around the globe. But it wasn't 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:04.359 long before troubling incidents began a surface. For example, the 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:07.640 story of Canadian soldier Clayton Matchie in nineteen ninety three, 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:12.040 just four years after the drug received FDA approval. 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:17.840 During the Somalia crisis, Canadian military sent several thousand troops 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:22.399 over to aid the US military effort, and this was 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:26.960 the first large scale use of meflick in any deployment. 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:29.359 And one of the troops that he was given this 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:34.400 drug was a fellow named Clayton Mashing. He almost immediately 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:40.080 started experiencing fairly severe symptoms from meflick, including symptoms of psychosis. 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:43.119 These symptoms were so severe he came back home on 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:45.760 leave and he was there in bed with his wife 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:49.560 and he woke up in a sweat, white knuckles clenching 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:53.280 his wife. I think he was convinced there was this monster, 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:55.760 this apparition at the foot of his bed, big teeth 0:21:56.520 --> 0:21:59.359 was about to eat him, and he begged his wife 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:02.800 to pray with him for this monster, this apparition to 0:22:02.960 --> 0:22:07.520 be exercised. So he deploys back over to Somalia, and 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:10.160 I think within a matter of weeks, if I'm not mistaken, 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:13.439 he's in a pit guarding a Somali detainee that had 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:16.040 snuck in under the fence, I think, And according to 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:19.080 witnesses there, he started beating him with a stick and 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:24.359 apparently he was trying to beat these camel spiders that 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:27.720 were covering this Somali detainee. Now, actually he wasn't covered 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:31.440 in camel spiders, but in the midst of this psychosis, 0:22:31.480 --> 0:22:34.400 he hallucinated that this detainee was covered in camel spiders, 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:38.760 and so he ended up getting beaten to death. And 0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:42.280 for a Canadian soldier to beat a detainee like that 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:45.560 to death seemed just like a symptom of something gone 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:46.320 terribly wrong. 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:50.640 For Clayton, Matchie Mefloquin was not acting in a vacuum 0:22:51.600 --> 0:22:54.480 similar to staffs are to bales. The Canadian warrior was 0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:57.040 under the influence of a combination of substances. 0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:00.879 There's a key point here that is kind of overlooked 0:23:01.000 --> 0:23:03.680 that they were being administered in Maflequin. They were allowed 0:23:03.720 --> 0:23:08.400 to drink beer. Their medics also administered them cough surroup, 0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:13.720 most likely robotushing with codeine as a sleep aid, as 0:23:13.720 --> 0:23:17.480 a replacement for ambient That's what they took with them. 0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:21.159 So these guys are whacked out on some serious stuff 0:23:21.200 --> 0:23:25.320 they're drinking. Drinking alcohol with Meflequin is a very dangerous 0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:29.560 thing to do. And then Clayton, after he came out 0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:32.919