Speaker 1: We've moved our studio. Today we're sitting in the Eisenhower
Speaker 1: Executive Office Building, right across the street from the White House,
Speaker 1: which is where a lot of the quote White House
Speaker 1: officials actually work. I mean, many of them would rather
Speaker 1: have a tiny little broom closet in the actual White
Speaker 1: House than a palace in the e E E O B.
Speaker 1: But it's it's quite spectacular here. Yes, the room is beautiful.
Speaker 1: It has some kind of gold bronze e I would say,
Speaker 1: sort of gilded wallpaper, a lot of portraits of men
Speaker 1: looking very stern, and I have no idea who they are.
Speaker 1: I think there's enough goal that Donald Trump would feel
Speaker 1: pretty comfortable, and I think so too. But this is
Speaker 1: actually a war room. We hear a lot about war
Speaker 1: rooms and campaigns, but this is a warm room here
Speaker 1: in the E O B. Well, I think part of
Speaker 1: this building used to house the offices of the old
Speaker 1: Secretary of War. We didn't have a Secretary of Defense
Speaker 1: until after World War Two, and so the person who
Speaker 1: held that office, which I believe excluded the Navy um,
Speaker 1: would have benefited from some of these very fancy rooms.
Speaker 1: I feel powerful just sitting here, Brian, and talk about power.
Speaker 1: We have a very special guest, Valerie Jarrett. She is
Speaker 1: a top advisor to the President but also probably the
Speaker 1: best fob friend of Barack of anyone who works here,
Speaker 1: so it proximity to power is the closest thing literally
Speaker 1: to power. I think she was in an enviable position.
Speaker 1: She certainly has witnessed an extraordinary eight years and it
Speaker 1: will be so interesting to hear her talk about the
Speaker 1: high points and some of the low points as well.
Speaker 1: And it will be fascinating to hear her views on
Speaker 1: the fact that Barack Obama is going to be succeeded
Speaker 1: by someone who essentially ran to over return his presidency.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that's a very painful point for a lot
Speaker 1: of Obama loyalists. It's we good, okay, Bellery Charet. We're
Speaker 1: so excited to have you on our podcast, Welcome to
Speaker 1: the White House, Katie, delighted to have you. Thank you,
Speaker 1: and Brian and I have been so looking forward to
Speaker 1: this interview, and we wanted to start by asking you
Speaker 1: how you're feeling. I mean, this must be an incredibly
Speaker 1: emotional time for you. The end of the Obama administration
Speaker 1: is coming soon. Tell us how you're feeling well, you
Speaker 1: know I've been here since day one, January two thousand
Speaker 1: and nine, that it has been truly the most remarkable
Speaker 1: eight years of my life to be able to be
Speaker 1: uh witness to a transformative time in our country, and
Speaker 1: really to have that bird's eye view and have the
Speaker 1: ability to work with someone who I have known for
Speaker 1: twenty five years in respect and love both he and
Speaker 1: his wife. So dear so, I think in the course
Speaker 1: of the day, I probably have every possible imaginable emotion.
Speaker 1: So just name some of those emotions. Well, appreciation for
Speaker 1: the people with whom I've had the privilege of working
Speaker 1: here in the White House, as well as ordinary Americans
Speaker 1: from around the country who uh we have had the
Speaker 1: privilege of touching and having them touch us. And I
Speaker 1: will cherish the memories I have of the team here
Speaker 1: and those folks for as long as I live. So
Speaker 1: you have very positive, obviously positive memories of being here.
Speaker 1: But I imagine there have been some disappointments. There have
Speaker 1: been some disappointments along the way, some frustrations. There have
Speaker 1: been frustration times since you've been just really ticked off. True,
Speaker 1: that's true, That's all true. But I will say, um
Speaker 1: by nature, I have an optimistic spirit. But the other
Speaker 1: thing I'll say is is that UM. One of the
Speaker 1: important UM strengths I think that the President has and
Speaker 1: I have tried to learn, is to take the long
Speaker 1: view and to recognize that there is an entrenchment in
Speaker 1: holding onto the status quo, and that when we are
Speaker 1: the force for change, that means it's going to make
Speaker 1: people uncomfortable. And sometimes people resist change, even if it's
Speaker 1: changed for the better, because we all kind of like
Speaker 1: the comfort zone. And so when you come here and
Speaker 1: your intend is to kind of disrupt that status quo,
Speaker 1: you're going to take an inevitable amount of heat, and
Speaker 1: that's going to cause frustration. Some of the criticism is
Speaker 1: totally unjustifiable. Some of it, you know, constructive criticism always welcome, UM.
Speaker 1: But I think what has frustrated me most is the
Speaker 1: people who have put their short term political interests ahead
Speaker 1: of what's good for our country. So that I won't miss,
Speaker 1: but most other things I will. Can you give me
Speaker 1: example of somebody who did that? Sure, I can't easily.
Speaker 1: Senator McConnell, who decided on day one that his number
Speaker 1: one objective was going to be to ensure that President
Speaker 1: Obama was not re elected. So let me take back
Speaker 1: to what was going on in day one. Our economy
Speaker 1: was in a free fall. Our banks were in the
Speaker 1: Virgin collapse. The automobile industry was literally in bankruptcy. We
Speaker 1: had a healthcare crisis, We were in two wars. We
Speaker 1: had a total dependence on foreign oil. Your number one
Speaker 1: goal is to make sure President Obama doesn't get re elected.
Speaker 1: How About let's write the economy. How About let's make
Speaker 1: sure everybody gets healthcare. How About let's figure out how
Speaker 1: we can wind down the wars and try to uh
Speaker 1: find Osama bin Laden. Those were constructive things that we
Speaker 1: could have done together. And so his willingness again to
Speaker 1: just focus through the political lens as opposed to how
Speaker 1: can I make sure that you can afford to go
Speaker 1: to college and that your kids can have a better
Speaker 1: life than you. So before we talk more about politics,
Speaker 1: Senator McConnell, Donald Trump, the last days of President Obama's
Speaker 1: time in the White House. UM, I'd like the audience
Speaker 1: to get to know you a little bit better, because
Speaker 1: your story is pretty extraordinary. You were born to American
Speaker 1: parents in Shahra's Iran. What were you doing there? Well,
Speaker 1: I was there because my mother was there. So my
Speaker 1: father was a physician and when he was discharged from
Speaker 1: the army, he was looking for ways of continuing what
Speaker 1: he enjoyed most, which was research. And uh, he and
Speaker 1: my mother are adventuresome spirits, and a lot of the
Speaker 1: jobs that he was applying for in the United States,
Speaker 1: because he was African American, we're offering him salaries that
Speaker 1: were not competitive with his peers. And so they said, well, look,
Speaker 1: let's just go on an adventure. At a time when
Speaker 1: they didn't have children, and so they started looking for
Speaker 1: job opportunities. At that point, the um Iran and the
Speaker 1: United States had extraordinarily strong diplomatic ties, and the Shaw
Speaker 1: of Iran was very interested in ensuring that the Iranian
Speaker 1: citizens were receiving the best possible health care. So he
Speaker 1: recruited through his Department of Health, physicians from all over
Speaker 1: the country, all over the world, not just the United States,
Speaker 1: but all over the world to come and help start
Speaker 1: hospitals in regions that didn't have state of the art hospitals.
Speaker 1: So my dad helped start the Namazi Hospital in Sharaz
Speaker 1: and I was the second baby born in the hospital.
Speaker 1: Why didn't you become a doctor two reasons um. One
Speaker 1: organic chemistry, I feel that was a show stopper, and
Speaker 1: the second, which was in rapid um tandem, is that
Speaker 1: I was dating a medical student who took me to
Speaker 1: his anatomy class where they were dissecting cadavers. You know.
Speaker 1: After that, that was that. But I did intend to
Speaker 1: be premed when I first started went to Stanford. I
Speaker 1: went to Stanford and University of Michigan, and then I
Speaker 1: after medicine fell through, I decided we'll be a lawyer.
Speaker 1: So then I went to write to the University of Michigan.
Speaker 1: And then you returned to Chicago, where you're played a
Speaker 1: pretty sort of storied role in that city's history, in
Speaker 1: particularly to African American history. Can you talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about that. Yeah, well, I think probably the commitment
Speaker 1: UH to service goes way back in my family. My
Speaker 1: great grandfather was first African American to graduate from m
Speaker 1: I t UH. He was the first African American architect
Speaker 1: in the country and devoted his life to um building UH,
Speaker 1: primarily at Tuskegee Institute. He designed most of the buildings
Speaker 1: on that campus, but he also did schools around the
Speaker 1: country and cared a lot about ways of making sure
Speaker 1: that the African American community was housed well. And then
Speaker 1: his son, whose name was also Robert Taylor, was the
Speaker 1: chairman of the Chicago Housing Authority. And so those were
Speaker 1: my two of my ancestors. And then my parents always
Speaker 1: were both academics, but always believed in public service and
Speaker 1: giving back to communities, to those who much has given
Speaker 1: much as expected was the value that I was raised by.
Speaker 1: Going into bublic policy was really in your genes. I
Speaker 1: think a lot of responsibility. I mean, it's so incredibly
Speaker 1: impressive when you hear about your family history. Did you
Speaker 1: feel that you had to continue that tradition in any
Speaker 1: way or do you think it was so It wasn't pressure,
Speaker 1: Katie at all. I never felt a burden to do
Speaker 1: something committed to making our community better, however we define
Speaker 1: that community. And in fact, I spent the first six
Speaker 1: years of my career practicing law, and my parents thought
Speaker 1: it was terrific I had. I was the first lawyer
Speaker 1: in our family. I worked for big law firms, fancy offices,
Speaker 1: and he was actually having my daughter that made me
Speaker 1: realize that what I was doing wasn't sufficiently satisfying. And
Speaker 1: you know, when you leave your kids, you want to
Speaker 1: be doing something important. UM. And I was at that
Speaker 1: point a single mom, and so I felt drawn to
Speaker 1: be there and be home and be that perfect parent.
Speaker 1: And yet every day I was doing something I didn't
Speaker 1: think as useful and I didn't think it was something
Speaker 1: that would make her proud. And so in terms of
Speaker 1: my motivation, I think my parents just wanted me to
Speaker 1: work hard and do something that I cared about. I
Speaker 1: wanted her to think highly of me, and that's what
Speaker 1: drove me into public service. You also, um, obviously became
Speaker 1: very very friendly with the Obama's early on, and you
Speaker 1: played a bit of a role, Valerie, I know, in
Speaker 1: their courtship. UM. See that now, all right, now, let's
Speaker 1: say good, let's correctly because we're confused about it. You know,
Speaker 1: it's been everything from you set them up on their
Speaker 1: first date to you what I recall that you went
Speaker 1: out with them one night. I did. I did after
Speaker 1: they were engaged. So I take no credit for the romance,
Speaker 1: UM getting going. And in fact, the reason we went
Speaker 1: out to dinner is because I had offered the first
Speaker 1: lady a job working for me in the Mayor's office.
Speaker 1: I was Mayor Daily's deputy chief of staff at the time,
Speaker 1: and someone had sent me her resume and said, you know,
Speaker 1: brilliant young woman has no interest in being at a
Speaker 1: law firm. And I said, that's my kind of person,
Speaker 1: and so I, uh, ten minutes into the interview, I
Speaker 1: was just bowled over, and also realized after about ten
Speaker 1: minutes I was no longer interviewing her. She was interviewing me,
Speaker 1: and I was trying to sell her on why she
Speaker 1: should do this, and I made her an instant job offer.
Speaker 1: She said, wisely, let me think about it. And then
Speaker 1: when she got back in touch, she said, my feelance
Speaker 1: thinks it's a dreadful idea, and he doesn't want me
Speaker 1: to go work in the mayor's office. He's started as
Speaker 1: a community organizer, rallying against government, trying to force government
Speaker 1: to be a force for good, and he's concerned that
Speaker 1: if I'm in there, then maybe, you know, we might disagree,
Speaker 1: and what will happen if I if she disagrees with
Speaker 1: what the mayor wants to do? Long story, Sure, she said,
Speaker 1: would you mind having dinner with us and let's talk
Speaker 1: it through and let's see if we can convince him
Speaker 1: that you're right and it's a good fit and that
Speaker 1: he's wrong. And I did, and that was years ago.
Speaker 1: What did you say to convince him? I still remember
Speaker 1: that dinner pretty well. You're smart, asked that question. We
Speaker 1: talked about and he was very good at getting me
Speaker 1: to open up about all kinds of things. Uh. We
Speaker 1: talked about my first five years living in Iran at
Speaker 1: the time he spent in Indonesia, what it was like
Speaker 1: for me to go from Iran to London for a
Speaker 1: year and then back to the United States, where I
Speaker 1: had an English accent and spoke three languages and started
Speaker 1: at a public school, and kind of the bullying that
Speaker 1: I went through and the teasing, so everything was just
Speaker 1: totally screwed up when I first came back to the
Speaker 1: United States. And then he talked about what it was
Speaker 1: like for him living in Indonesia and then going to
Speaker 1: Hawaii and being from mixed parents and and so it
Speaker 1: was a really frank onnest conversation kind of about who
Speaker 1: we were as people, what our view was of the world,
Speaker 1: what it was like to live outside of the United States,
Speaker 1: and how that gave us an appreciation for the United
Speaker 1: States and just how extraordinary of a country it is.
Speaker 1: And I think that those basic kind of core values
Speaker 1: and perspective about the world is where we first did.
Speaker 1: So did he have you at Hello? No, he had
Speaker 1: me after like three hours. He had me hit Alo,
Speaker 1: he had me before dinner. I think I had him
Speaker 1: after the end of that dinner, because at the end
Speaker 1: of the dinner I said, I know, this was a test,
Speaker 1: how did I do? And They're like, we'll get back
Speaker 1: to you. But she did end up coming and joining
Speaker 1: my team with White at the Mayor's office. So was
Speaker 1: that the beginning of your friendship? Yes, it was, and
Speaker 1: we worked together for a couple of years, and when
Speaker 1: he first ran for state senate, I helped him on
Speaker 1: that campaign. And then later the first lady joined the
Speaker 1: University of Chicago and I was on the board there,
Speaker 1: and she joined the Medical Center where I chaired the board,
Speaker 1: and so her paths and mine crossed professionally until we
Speaker 1: came here. And then when he ran for U S Senate,
Speaker 1: I chaired his finance committee and we lived in the
Speaker 1: same neighborhood. I've known, Uh, he's known my daughter. I
Speaker 1: think we were talking last night since she was six,
Speaker 1: So it goes back a long way. So you became
Speaker 1: one of three senior advisors UH in the Obama administration.
Speaker 1: Do you think that your friendship has ever not served
Speaker 1: both of you? Well, there have there been times during
Speaker 1: these eight years where I don't know where you were
Speaker 1: emotionally usurped maybe where you might have been intellectually. I mean,
Speaker 1: how do you separate those two things? And were there
Speaker 1: at time times when they overlapped in a way that
Speaker 1: wasn't helpful? You know, I think about that a lot
Speaker 1: because people have often said to me, Um, does the
Speaker 1: friendship get in the way of being the senior advisor?
Speaker 1: Does the senior advisor get in the way of the friendship?
Speaker 1: That's a much better way of asking the question. I
Speaker 1: just asked, thank you, but only because I've heard it
Speaker 1: a lot so I know it well. I think it
Speaker 1: has only helped. I think that part of being a
Speaker 1: senior advisor is knowing the person really well who you
Speaker 1: are responsible for advising, UM, trusting that person, and having
Speaker 1: that person trust you. And senior advisor to the President
Speaker 1: United States, Um, you want a person who shares your values,
Speaker 1: your vision for the country, your motivations, and so I
Speaker 1: think it has actually been a real strength, and we compartmentalized,
Speaker 1: and so when we're in the office, I call him Mr. President,
Speaker 1: and I make sure that whatever advice I give him
Speaker 1: is well thought out and that I've consulted broadly and widely.
Speaker 1: Since part of my responsibility through public engagement and in
Speaker 1: the governmental affairs is to make sure that I'm not
Speaker 1: just talking to him off the cuff, but it's informed
Speaker 1: by the American people and the other elected officials whose
Speaker 1: lives are going to be impacted, jobs will be impacted
Speaker 1: by what we do. So I'm very careful about his time,
Speaker 1: and I'm very careful about making sure I have my
Speaker 1: ducks in order. When we're socializing, I just tell him
Speaker 1: whatever comes off the top of my hat. But we're
Speaker 1: not talking about my job. I mean, who in their
Speaker 1: personal life when you're hanging out with your friends spend
Speaker 1: a lot of time talking about your job. His whole
Speaker 1: point when he's down is to be down, and so
Speaker 1: I'm very respectful of that unless he brings up, so
Speaker 1: it's kind of up to him. But I would never
Speaker 1: try to burden a dinner conversation with what we're doing
Speaker 1: at work. We talk about our kids, We talk about
Speaker 1: television shows, we talk about what are we going to
Speaker 1: do this weekend, just like everybody else. And I think,
Speaker 1: I think honoring the necessity for normalcy in his life
Speaker 1: is where I'm being the best friend. So here's how
Speaker 1: the New York Times described you a few years ago,
Speaker 1: and this struck me. She is the single most influential
Speaker 1: person in the Obama White House. Partly it is her ubiquity,
Speaker 1: the guiding hand and everything from who sits on the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court to who sits next to him at state dinners.
Speaker 1: The White House staff memos peppered with VJ thinks or
Speaker 1: VJ says If Karl Rove was known as George W.
Speaker 1: Bush's political brain, Ms Jarrett is Mr Obama's spine. And
Speaker 1: this tidbit from somebody who probably isn't too fond of you.
Speaker 1: She is the only staff member who regularly follows the
Speaker 1: president home from the West Wing to the residents, a
Speaker 1: practice that has earned her the nickname the night Stalker.
Speaker 1: How do you react to that? Well, first of all,
Speaker 1: I think that, um, it is only natural in Washington
Speaker 1: for people to um be threatened by proximity. That's point
Speaker 1: number one. And so I take a fair amount of
Speaker 1: that with a grain of salt. By it's only natural
Speaker 1: because of our relationship that you might have something like
Speaker 1: that kind of a title. Um. I think that people
Speaker 1: who know the president know that he's the one with
Speaker 1: the firm, steady spine. He's the one that's never wavering.
Speaker 1: He doesn't need me to buck him up in that
Speaker 1: respect at all, and that if anything, on days when
Speaker 1: I am and other members of our team are feeling glum,
Speaker 1: he's the one who says, remember why we're here. And
Speaker 1: early Anni used to tease me because I would watch
Speaker 1: cable television and I would come in ranting and he'd say,
Speaker 1: turn off the cable and turn on the American people.
Speaker 1: And it was a nice, like, you know, jolt to say, Okay,
Speaker 1: you're right, Why am I bothering you with some um
Speaker 1: gobbled leg up? And when we are the time you
Speaker 1: ever is so precious you have to use it really well.
Speaker 1: Uh So that's kind of my reaction to it, I
Speaker 1: will say, I think, Um, I think people now appreciate
Speaker 1: the role that I have in the way that when
Speaker 1: you start with a new team, everybody's feeling a little insecure,
Speaker 1: and that that kind of Um, nonsense is just perfectly normal.
Speaker 1: But I think the folks who were here now and
Speaker 1: those with whom we've worked so closely over the years,
Speaker 1: recognize how important it is for me to be not
Speaker 1: just the advisor to the President, but a member of
Speaker 1: the team. We'll be right back with Valerie Jarrett. We're
Speaker 1: going to take a quick break to tell you about
Speaker 1: our sponsors, and we'll hear from some visitors outside the
Speaker 1: White House. There's nothing more idyllic, or perhaps more American
Speaker 1: than the White House. At Christmas time, I sent Brian
Speaker 1: out because because it was yeah to talk with some
Speaker 1: White House visitors from all over the country. Have a listen.
Speaker 1: Where are you guys from Keller, Texas, Trustful Alabama, dr
Speaker 1: North Carolina, away from England, London. We live not in London.
Speaker 1: Say yeah, is this your first time at the White House?
Speaker 1: It is for me. Yeah, it's not my first time.
Speaker 1: It is the first time at the White House. Yeah,
Speaker 1: first sign to d C. So I just go here
Speaker 1: this morning. It's my first time. Yes. What do you
Speaker 1: think President Obama's legacy is? Wow? That's a What do
Speaker 1: you think I think his legacy has changed? He's done
Speaker 1: a lot of change. Um, done a lot of good
Speaker 1: for the country, So I think he left his mark
Speaker 1: in a good way. You're gonna miss him. I will
Speaker 1: miss him a lot, I might cry. How do you
Speaker 1: assess the last eight years under President Obama? Trying? Trying
Speaker 1: to assess or a trying time for you? A trying time.
Speaker 1: Are you excited about the transition to Donald Trump? Nervous
Speaker 1: about it? How do you think about it? A little nervous?
Speaker 1: But I think he's He's going to be good. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's it's it's subject is a very
Speaker 1: touchy subject. But we're going to roll with the punches.
Speaker 1: I think most people and you kind of fairly, we're
Speaker 1: nervous about it than anything else. But I guess let's
Speaker 1: see what happens when he gets in. I'm very excited
Speaker 1: about the transition. I mean, it's it's America. It's a democracy.
Speaker 1: I don't have to have to be a fan of
Speaker 1: it. It It is what it is, and so why our
Speaker 1: democracy works, So we have to support it. Okay, loyal listeners,
Speaker 1: we have a question for you. Two thousand sixteen was
Speaker 1: considered by many, I think by most, probably by all,
Speaker 1: to be a very tumultuous year. What do you think
Speaker 1: the best thing that happened other than our podcast in sixteen?
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. Call nine to nine,
Speaker 1: two to four, four, six, three seven. Brian Goldsmith will
Speaker 1: be standing by to talk to you. I'm kidding, but
Speaker 1: there is a recording and we'd love to hear from
Speaker 1: you again. The best thing that happened in two thousand sixteen?
Speaker 1: Give us a reason to ring in the new year. Right,
Speaker 1: we're back with Valerie Jarrett. Um I I we have
Speaker 1: to talk to you about the election. I know you
Speaker 1: described it as a punch to the stomach and soul crushing.
Speaker 1: Do you think it was a repudiation of Barack Obama?
Speaker 1: Not at all. If you look at where he's pulling today,
Speaker 1: he's as popular as he's ever visually popular. Was it
Speaker 1: a repudiation of his policies? No, I don't think so
Speaker 1: at all. He wasn't on the ballot. I mean, obviously
Speaker 1: he campaigned for Secretary Clinton. What was clear is that
Speaker 1: his popularity was not transferable. What happened, Oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: there are going to be far wiser people than I
Speaker 1: to figure that out. Very wise story. If you had
Speaker 1: to say, she didn't get enough votes in the places
Speaker 1: where she needed to have them too much about her,
Speaker 1: and it was Clinton fatigue. I have no idea. I
Speaker 1: really just don't know what you do. But you're still
Speaker 1: going to say I don't know because for right now, Um,
Speaker 1: I mean I described those emotions of how I felt
Speaker 1: the day after the election, and you know what, we've
Speaker 1: had to pick ourselves up and and we have to
Speaker 1: do for President elect Trump what President Bush did for us,
Speaker 1: and that has running very smooth and orderly transition. I
Speaker 1: was so impressed with and I coachared President Obama's transition,
Speaker 1: so I was right in there, and I know how
Speaker 1: supportive President Bush and his team were to us. And
Speaker 1: again different party coming in and President Obama's direction as
Speaker 1: that we are do exactly the same thing. President typewriter keys,
Speaker 1: what did they do? And they'll move the we are
Speaker 1: we are some of the outgoing Clinton people. It was
Speaker 1: a bit exaggerated, but there were a few pranks on
Speaker 1: the Clinton side. Come on, nothing up your sleeve. We
Speaker 1: have nothing up our sleeves. We're just going to do
Speaker 1: the very best because in so doing we've learned a lot.
Speaker 1: To your earlier question, in the last eight years, and
Speaker 1: we feel responsible for giving them the benefit of what
Speaker 1: we've learned, and then it's totally up to them whether
Speaker 1: they want to accept it or disregarded. But my time
Speaker 1: and my energy, my emotional energy and my physical energy, Katie,
Speaker 1: are going to the transition and wrapping things up that
Speaker 1: we have to do. Do you think President Obama regrets
Speaker 1: giving Donald Trump such a hard time at that White
Speaker 1: House correspondence dinner back in two thousand eleven, he was
Speaker 1: on a roll. Uh. Donald Trump was not amused, and
Speaker 1: some have even suggested that really motivated Donald Trump to
Speaker 1: run for president, even though he had discussed it prior
Speaker 1: to that at night. Does president has President Obama ever said, damn,
Speaker 1: maybe I should teasted him so much? He has not
Speaker 1: said that to me. I mean, though, it's all it
Speaker 1: was all meant and fun. My goodness that it was
Speaker 1: intended to be funny, and it was intended to kind
Speaker 1: of I mean, if you look at all of his
Speaker 1: correspondence remarks, they're always intended to kind of poke fun
Speaker 1: at the people who have been poking fun at him
Speaker 1: all year long, and it's his opportunity. Trump hadn't poked
Speaker 1: fun at him, He had perpetrated this whole notion that
Speaker 1: he wasn't a US citizen, this false notion that he
Speaker 1: was for this false notion, Yes, but and so so
Speaker 1: the president uses that for humor, just as he has
Speaker 1: used so many other things that have been totally unjustified,
Speaker 1: and did made humor out of them as well. And
Speaker 1: that the President must not have found that amusing or funny,
Speaker 1: the whole idea that someone was spreading these falsehoods. Well,
Speaker 1: of course it's not amusing or funny when it's happening
Speaker 1: to you. But the correspondence dinner gives him a chance
Speaker 1: to poke fun at it in a way that hopefully
Speaker 1: has people appreciate how ludicrous most of is. And he
Speaker 1: does it in a always in a very self deprecating way, um,
Speaker 1: which is his style. And it's it's really too I mean,
Speaker 1: it is intended to amuse, but it's also intended to inform.
Speaker 1: And I think he does it really well. And I
Speaker 1: have no idea whether or not that's what motivated President
Speaker 1: Electromp to run for office. He said in a recent
Speaker 1: interview Valerie quote. You know, I'm like a smart person.
Speaker 1: I don't have to be told the same thing in
Speaker 1: the same words every single day for the next eight years.
Speaker 1: So is that what the intelligence the daily intelligence briefing
Speaker 1: is being told the same thing in the same way
Speaker 1: every day. Now, I don't think you think that, and
Speaker 1: neither do I. I'm obviously not going to tell you
Speaker 1: what's in the daily briefing. It's all classified by the
Speaker 1: bizarre that he's not being a part of it. Well,
Speaker 1: we'll see when he becomes president what he does. But
Speaker 1: what do you make of this broader wedge that is
Speaker 1: now being driven between the president elect and the intelligence community,
Speaker 1: This sense that he's in fact signing with Putin over
Speaker 1: Republicans like John McCain and Lindsey Graham. Well, you know what,
Speaker 1: he's going to have to sort all that out, and
Speaker 1: I won't be here to advise him to how he
Speaker 1: does that. He's going to have to figure that all out,
Speaker 1: and my guess is that they will. You know what,
Speaker 1: I don't have to I don't really have a guess.
Speaker 1: We'll see what he does. Do you feel like doo
Speaker 1: doo doo, doo doo doo doo doo. You're living in
Speaker 1: the twilight zone. These are interesting times. She's trying very
Speaker 1: hard to be a politic. If I can put words
Speaker 1: in your mouth representative of a president who's trying to
Speaker 1: provide the president elect as smooth a transition as he received,
Speaker 1: I wish I had said it in those words. I'm
Speaker 1: looking forward to Valerie here and unplugged personally in a
Speaker 1: few months. But but speaking of the transition, you know,
Speaker 1: the president of the President elect man in the White
Speaker 1: House right after the election. Now, they've been talking fairly
Speaker 1: regularly on the phone that they I don't know exactly
Speaker 1: how many times, but they certainly have kept in touch.
Speaker 1: Can you characterize that conversation anyway? I mean, obviously not
Speaker 1: going to reveal what they said, but how how is
Speaker 1: the president sort of thought about his conversations as he
Speaker 1: learned anything new about Mr Trump? You know, I would
Speaker 1: say that what the President UM is trying very hard
Speaker 1: to do is offer the President elect his best counsel,
Speaker 1: and to do that in a confidential way, because that's
Speaker 1: where trust comes, and to give him the space he
Speaker 1: needs to make what are going to be some pretty
Speaker 1: important decisions, and to categorize it more deeply than that
Speaker 1: runs the risk of UM in any way, UM impeding
Speaker 1: that effort, and I don't want to impede that effort.
Speaker 1: So I think that the President has made himself available
Speaker 1: to the President elect, and Um, those conversations have been constructive.
Speaker 1: Let's let's talk briefly about the Affordable Care Act, because
Speaker 1: I know that's something you want to share with people.
Speaker 1: Thank you. And I think it's sort of a two
Speaker 1: part question. On November one, it was announced that premiums
Speaker 1: were going up, and some people thought that that might
Speaker 1: have impacted the election one of many factors. Um, do
Speaker 1: you think it was too far reaching, why didn't it
Speaker 1: work better or for some people? And what is your
Speaker 1: biggest regret when you look back on healthcare reform. Well,
Speaker 1: first of all, UM, let me correctly comment about premiums
Speaker 1: going up that high. The American people can obtain healthcare
Speaker 1: under the exchanges for seventy five dollars or less, and
Speaker 1: so you have to factor in the subsidy for the
Speaker 1: people who can't afford it. We have had double digit
Speaker 1: premium increases our in our country forever. The healthcare costs
Speaker 1: under the Affordable Care Accidency Affordable Care Act have gone
Speaker 1: up at those slowest inflationary rate in the last fifty years.
Speaker 1: So it is working. It's working. Well, they're over twenty
Speaker 1: million people who have healthcare who probably didn't have it
Speaker 1: before who have it today, not to mention the hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty million who are now covered from loot, not
Speaker 1: losing their plan if they have a pre existing condition,
Speaker 1: or having their premiums jacked up, or having annual or
Speaker 1: lifetime caps kick in right when they need their insurance.
Speaker 1: The most women who are able to get preventive care
Speaker 1: without a cope, whether it's cancer or birth control or
Speaker 1: domestic abuse counseling, all of these benefits that are in
Speaker 1: the Affordable Care Act. Children who can stay on their
Speaker 1: parents plan until they're twenty six. So there's a lot
Speaker 1: in it that is very very good and worthwhile. To
Speaker 1: your question about whether or not um he did too much,
Speaker 1: you've always got to try to do as much as possible,
Speaker 1: keeping in mind that what you're trying to do is
Speaker 1: make sure that we're health. There there's nothing more fundamental,
Speaker 1: obviously than our health. And he wasn't willing to just
Speaker 1: do a small slice when he had an opportunity to
Speaker 1: do the whole thing. And the door has always been
Speaker 1: open to constructive suggestions for ways to make it better.
Speaker 1: But what the Republicans have done. I think it's now
Speaker 1: over sixty times is vote to repeal the entire package.
Speaker 1: I don't know how you look those mothers who have
Speaker 1: six children in the face and say, no, you shouldn't
Speaker 1: have affordable health care. I don't get that at all.
Speaker 1: I think they're going to I will I. I just
Speaker 1: hope not. I it's like it's numerous uno on the agenda.
Speaker 1: I think if you start looking at what the impact
Speaker 1: of that will be on people who now you're saying
Speaker 1: because you're a cancer survivor, you can't afford health insurance
Speaker 1: and you can't obtain it anymore, when that's who needs
Speaker 1: it the most. You're going to say that a child
Speaker 1: with a chronic asthma condition is not ensurable when they
Speaker 1: know you're gonna have a lifetime challenge. You're gonna kick
Speaker 1: all these kids off their parents plans when they don't
Speaker 1: have a job that provides health insurance. I just think
Speaker 1: that the consequences of of repeal without a replacement that
Speaker 1: provides the basic benefits that are in the A c
Speaker 1: A is going to hurt a lot of Americans. And
Speaker 1: this is coming out on a day that is important
Speaker 1: for the A c A. Why is that. Well, the
Speaker 1: enrollment period began November one. We are encouraging everyone to
Speaker 1: try to sign up by December because if you sign
Speaker 1: up by the fifteen, you're gonna have health insurance on
Speaker 1: January one. What better New Year's present to yourself and
Speaker 1: your family than that. But the enrollment period does run
Speaker 1: through the end of January, and again we're seeing in
Speaker 1: the first twelve days of this enrollment period we had
Speaker 1: a million people sign up. People want healthcare and they
Speaker 1: realize it with the subsidy, they can get it for
Speaker 1: a very inexpensive cost compared to one trip to the
Speaker 1: emergency room. One former advisor to the president said to
Speaker 1: me recently that, ironically, President Obama got a lot more
Speaker 1: on in the early years of his presidency, but he's
Speaker 1: a much better president today than he was in two
Speaker 1: thousand nine. Or do you agree with that assessment? And
Speaker 1: if you do, Uh, what do you think he's learned?
Speaker 1: How do you think he's gotten better, What strengths have
Speaker 1: come through, what weaknesses have been corrected? Well, of course
Speaker 1: he's a better president today than he was eight years ago.
Speaker 1: We're all better in our jobs after eight years doing them. Uh,
Speaker 1: And this is a job where as I think his
Speaker 1: predecessors would say, there's no way you can be completely
Speaker 1: prepared for until you get here, and when you are
Speaker 1: the one who's responsible for making the kinds of decisions
Speaker 1: that the President of the United States has to make. UM,
Speaker 1: you build on a foundation of hope, uh and experience.
Speaker 1: But this is new and so yes, of course he's
Speaker 1: a much better president today. I think when you say
Speaker 1: he got more done, I think that, as I described
Speaker 1: at the outset, the economy was in this freeth fall
Speaker 1: and it was important to him to move swiftly. And
Speaker 1: when you look at the fact that our unemployment rate
Speaker 1: went up to a high ten percent and now it's
Speaker 1: four point six, the steps city took early on helped
Speaker 1: get us to where we are today. So I don't
Speaker 1: look at I look at it in that continuum. Obviously,
Speaker 1: the Affordable Care Act was passed, the Recovery Act was passed, UM,
Speaker 1: there were numerous successes on the world stage that laid
Speaker 1: the foundation for now. The fact of the matter is,
Speaker 1: I think where we have been more effective in the
Speaker 1: second term is a lot of the work that we
Speaker 1: have done that didn't require Congress. And so when it
Speaker 1: as it became clear, and perhaps it should have become
Speaker 1: clearer earlier that we were going to have such a
Speaker 1: hard time, but it was so hard to believe that
Speaker 1: they weren't going to work with us. But we pivoted
Speaker 1: and UH did a lot of work at the state
Speaker 1: and local level where the impact has been dramatic um
Speaker 1: as well as with the private sector, and leveraged resources
Speaker 1: and efforts to have a maximum impact. And so if
Speaker 1: you look at everything from and take an issue like
Speaker 1: paid leave, were the only developed country in the world
Speaker 1: that doesn't have a federal paid leaf policy, but now
Speaker 1: cities and states all across the country, as well as
Speaker 1: private sector are requiring paid leaf. UH take an issue
Speaker 1: like raising the minimum wage. We again tried to get
Speaker 1: Congress to raise a minimum wage. They didn't. Cities and
Speaker 1: states all across the country and private employers have raised
Speaker 1: a minimum wage. People think that's really the answer to
Speaker 1: a lot of issues. To do it more at the grassroots,
Speaker 1: state and local level. You said that was one of
Speaker 1: the biggest disappointment, one of the two biggest disappointments. What
Speaker 1: was the second comprehensive immigration reform? Profoundly disappointed that and
Speaker 1: then They're both issues, Katie, were the vast majority of
Speaker 1: the American people supported what we were trying to do,
Speaker 1: and for again short term political interests, we were unable
Speaker 1: to get the Republicans in Congress to move forward on
Speaker 1: either one. But the momentum is building in the States,
Speaker 1: and eventually that momentum, we believe, will put sufficient pressure
Speaker 1: on Congress that they respond to that to the people
Speaker 1: who elected them and in whose service they are supposed
Speaker 1: to be. Are you worried, that, Valerie, that Barack Obama's
Speaker 1: legacy is going to be slowly painfully for you and
Speaker 1: for him and other people who support his policies dismantled
Speaker 1: by a Trump administration. There's the head of the e
Speaker 1: p A. The person he wants is a basically doesn't
Speaker 1: believe in climate change. They want to dismantle the Affordable
Speaker 1: Care Act Republicans do um, is that depressing for you
Speaker 1: and scary? Of course it's scary, and of course it's depressing,
Speaker 1: and we're hoping it won't happen. And again, through the transition,
Speaker 1: we're going to try to provide as many facts, evidence,
Speaker 1: space facts as to why we put in place the
Speaker 1: policies we did in the hopes that we will persuade them. Um,
Speaker 1: we may not be successful on every front, but my goodness,
Speaker 1: we're going to get caught trying. We have a listener question, Valerie,
Speaker 1: that's instincts. On a personal note, Hey, this is Jared
Speaker 1: sim Sar from Charleston, South Carolina. Valerie, Jet, So, you
Speaker 1: have been one of the President's closest political and personal
Speaker 1: confidence over the past eight years, and so I'm wondering
Speaker 1: two things. One, how has the presidency changed him over
Speaker 1: the past eight years from the man you knew back
Speaker 1: in Chicago? And two do you have much creative visibility
Speaker 1: into Barack Obama the father, husband, and friend? Then most
Speaker 1: people do. And so because of that unique lens, what
Speaker 1: did you see that you wish the rest of America
Speaker 1: could see when they look and think about President Obama?
Speaker 1: Thank you. That's a great question. Two part question. I'll
Speaker 1: try to remember both parts. I think the first lady
Speaker 1: said it best when she spoke at his two thousand
Speaker 1: um in twelve invention speech. She said being president hasn't
Speaker 1: changed to is it has revealed who he is? And
Speaker 1: having had the chance to, as I said earlier, be
Speaker 1: here since day one and see how he makes decisions
Speaker 1: and how he formulates his priorities. Um, I am so
Speaker 1: proud that his true north has never wavered. He's never
Speaker 1: forgotten why he was here. He's never forgotten that he's
Speaker 1: in service of the American people. He's never allowed any
Speaker 1: short term political interests to get ahead of what's important
Speaker 1: for the country. The Affordable Care Act is a good example.
Speaker 1: There were many who said to him, just do smaller
Speaker 1: pieces of it. It's going to cost you politically, and
Speaker 1: he said, what's the point in being here if you're
Speaker 1: not going to do big things that help people? And so, Um,
Speaker 1: has he grown and matured, has his hair grade most
Speaker 1: definitely uh and all to the best, But his his
Speaker 1: motivation and sense of what it means to be the
Speaker 1: President of the United Sates has not altered one bit.
Speaker 1: And for that I am so proud, so really, very
Speaker 1: very proud of him. I think the second question was
Speaker 1: what might we have done as a father, a father, husband?
Speaker 1: And unless you want to ask the answer, what might
Speaker 1: you have done? I don't know how I had that
Speaker 1: in my head. What do I know? What do I see? Um?
Speaker 1: I see a good man. I see a good man
Speaker 1: who was loved as a child, but who had a
Speaker 1: real hole in his heart for the father who abandoned him.
Speaker 1: From the father who abandoned him, who fell in love
Speaker 1: with a strong, courageous, talented woman, and her parents became
Speaker 1: and her father in particular became mentors to him too.
Speaker 1: He often says that he looked at her dad to
Speaker 1: see how to be a dad. And he's someone who
Speaker 1: on the busiest civil day, values family. When six fifteen comes,
Speaker 1: we are all getting nervous because we know, at six
Speaker 1: thirty he better be walking upstairs to have dinner with
Speaker 1: his family. For all the years where he was campaign
Speaker 1: or campaigning or working in Springfield, it pained him unbelievably
Speaker 1: to be away from them. And so that simple act
Speaker 1: of sitting around their table every night, even if it
Speaker 1: means he has to work for three or four more
Speaker 1: hours or five more hours after dinner, grounds him. And
Speaker 1: they're not interested in his day. They want to tell
Speaker 1: him about their day. And so he's a really good dad,
Speaker 1: and he's a wonderful husband. And he can have the
Speaker 1: singularly hard burdens of being the president of the United
Speaker 1: States and the leader of the free world on his
Speaker 1: shoulders and still have both time and emotional energy for them.
Speaker 1: And I think for parents of the world who are
Speaker 1: feeling very busy and wondering how they can balance work
Speaker 1: and family, he's a good role model for that. You
Speaker 1: make time. And I think that role model that we've
Speaker 1: seen from the White House of this couple who have
Speaker 1: raised these very normal, terrific, grounded children UH within this environment,
Speaker 1: speaks volumes to their UH, their character, their integrity, their
Speaker 1: sense of core values about what's important and UM, there's
Speaker 1: just been nothing more important to him than to be
Speaker 1: that good role model for his daughters and to comport
Speaker 1: himself every single day in a way that makes them proud.
Speaker 1: That caller was from Charleston, and I know you have
Speaker 1: a meeting to go to, but I think for you
Speaker 1: and for many Americans, one of the most poignant moments
Speaker 1: Barack Obamas eight years was when he spoke at that
Speaker 1: service in Charleston. So that was quite a day. And
Speaker 1: I think that's probably correct me if I'm wrong. One
Speaker 1: of the most vivid images you'll take with you when
Speaker 1: you leave the White House. It's interesting you bring it up,
Speaker 1: because today when I came in, I stopped at the
Speaker 1: mass and they play former speeches of the President sometimes
Speaker 1: on television, and it was playing when I got there,
Speaker 1: and I stopped and listened to it for about ten
Speaker 1: minutes through the part where he talked about the amazing
Speaker 1: grace of the people Reverend Pickney and and his um
Speaker 1: fellow parishioners who perished that day through the example of
Speaker 1: their loves. They now pass it on us. May we
Speaker 1: find ourselves worthy of that precious and extraordinary give as
Speaker 1: long as our lives ending, May grace now leave them home.
Speaker 1: May God continue to shed his grace. I'm the United
Speaker 1: States of America. It was a hopeful story. It was
Speaker 1: an honest and ross story, but it was intended to
Speaker 1: show that we can do better, that ordinary citizens can
Speaker 1: do better, and that we should ask ourselves some really
Speaker 1: hard questions, and that we're in so doing doesn't diminish
Speaker 1: our love for our country. Similar to the speech he
Speaker 1: gave Inselma on that point, it's how you prove your
Speaker 1: love for the country, to say, let me be willing
Speaker 1: to have some uncomfortable conversations and think, I'll think in
Speaker 1: an empathetic way outside of my own skin and appreciate
Speaker 1: a different perspective and a better perspective so that I
Speaker 1: can learn and and do right. And I would add,
Speaker 1: as a PostScript to that incredible speech, it's also the
Speaker 1: same day that the Supreme Court ruled on marriage equality,
Speaker 1: which um, I had the pleasure of calling the President
Speaker 1: to tell him the news, uh, right before he was
Speaker 1: scheduled to leave for Charleston. And UM, I will never
Speaker 1: forget that, I said to him, Mr President. The Supreme
Speaker 1: Court ruled on marriage equality to day five four And
Speaker 1: there was a long pause, and he said, and who won?
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, my goodness, I did bury
Speaker 1: the lead. We won. And then we came back to
Speaker 1: the White House after the trip to Charleston, and a
Speaker 1: very two very junior staff peopleould come up with the
Speaker 1: idea of UM lighting the house in the rainbow. And
Speaker 1: I stood on the north portico for about two hours
Speaker 1: with many of my colleagues here in the White House,
Speaker 1: and just reflected as the colors became to began to
Speaker 1: pop out, Uh, how far our journey had come in
Speaker 1: a relatively short period of time. Although, as the President said,
Speaker 1: it felt like a thunderboilt, but only because ordinary citizens
Speaker 1: had worked so hard to make that day, decades to
Speaker 1: make that day possible, And that really kind of sums
Speaker 1: up what this is all about. We carry our baton
Speaker 1: for the length of the journey that we have and
Speaker 1: then we handed off to the next one. And what
Speaker 1: you hope when you look back is is it you
Speaker 1: know good is better and that we did go. I
Speaker 1: think you're going to cry, am I in any second?
Speaker 1: That's what we better wrap it up. I try a
Speaker 1: lot these days, and what are you gonna do when
Speaker 1: what's sleep? Get some sleep? I'm going to take a break.
Speaker 1: I'm going to take a break. Yeah, I think, Um,
Speaker 1: I think I could sleep like ten hours, but I'm
Speaker 1: going to push the limit and see how far I
Speaker 1: can go at one stretch. Uh, And you know, take
Speaker 1: a moment to kind of rejuvenate. I still feel and
Speaker 1: I've said this often, if he had won another term,
Speaker 1: I would be here for one more term, but we
Speaker 1: don't have that in terms of stamina. I feel like
Speaker 1: I could do it, but I get some rest and
Speaker 1: then I'll figure out how to continue to be a
Speaker 1: force for good. That's my hope. Well, I'd like to say,
Speaker 1: on behalf of all of us, thank you for your
Speaker 1: service and for everything that you've done for the country,
Speaker 1: and thank you for talking with us, and it's it's
Speaker 1: been an honor, it really has. And I think that
Speaker 1: there's so much progress we've made and still a lot
Speaker 1: of hard work left to do, and we're all lucky
Speaker 1: to be in a position to do good. So we
Speaker 1: should we have miles to go before we sleep. As
Speaker 1: Robert Frost that sleep and then miles to go isn't
Speaker 1: the way I'm gonna look at it. Thank you, thank you,
Speaker 1: the conversation, Thank you, Thanks to Gianna Palmer for producing
Speaker 1: the show and Jared O'Connell for engineering and mixing it.
Speaker 1: Of course, Mark Phillips, Mark, we love our theme music.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to get my own version of it
Speaker 1: so I can play it while I'm on vacation or
Speaker 1: make it your ringtonement. Yeah, that would be great. That
Speaker 1: would be great. Maybe iTunes can help us arrange that
Speaker 1: since they picked us as one of their favorite podcasts
Speaker 1: of Oh thank you for reminding me, Brian. Remember you
Speaker 1: can also email us at comments at kirk podcast dot com,
Speaker 1: or find Katie on social media. She's at Katie Kirk
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Speaker 1: I'm at Goldsmith b on Twitter. Best of all, you
Speaker 1: can rate and review us on iTunes. Don't forget to
Speaker 1: subscribe because that helps more people become aware of the show.
Speaker 1: And we will talk to you next time. Thanks for listening. Hello,
Speaker 1: I'm Chris Gethered, and here with me is dream analysis
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Speaker 1: a taste of a brand new podcast called In Your Dreams,
Speaker 1: presented exclusively by the fine folks at Casper. We listened
Speaker 1: to the wildest, weirdest dreams admitted to us by you,
Speaker 1: our listeners, and we do our best to figure out
Speaker 1: just what those dreams could possibly mean. And look over
Speaker 1: the side of my phone, said, and there are Kuey
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Speaker 1: Blood tell subscribe to In your Dreams right now on
Speaker 1: iTunes or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for listening. Goodnight,
Speaker 1: dealing with a bit of a cold. That's why I
Speaker 1: sound kind of congested. Yeah, you have a sort of
Speaker 1: a throaty tone today, like Brenda Picaro. Yeah. For our
Speaker 1: older listeners, yeah exactly, it's just just a whisper of
Speaker 1: Susan Estridge. But we're