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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, I'm Eli, I'm Diana. We wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: about some feedback that we got from Alexandria Matthews who

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Speaker 1: said that she wants a Speculation Station T shirt. Love it.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna be exciting. I mean, I I'm not gonna lie.

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Speaker 1: I have thought that if we ever had a T

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Speaker 1: shirt it would be Speculation Station. But yes, I think

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Speaker 1: that would be so awesome. Let us know if that

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Speaker 1: sounds like something you would want. I don't know that

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Speaker 1: we can make that happen. We gotta talk. We've got

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Speaker 1: some corporate overlords, but maybe if we came to them

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Speaker 1: with interests, maybe we were like, hey, six thousand people

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Speaker 1: wrote us an email saying they want a T shirt.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty good. Well, anyway, thanks to Alexandria, we will

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Speaker 1: do our best to make a Speculation Station T shirt

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Speaker 1: happened for you. I was going to ask, did you

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Speaker 1: ever get into punk music at all? Not? Really? I mean,

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Speaker 1: like everyone I knew either liked Top forty garbage that

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Speaker 1: I didn't generally like, or felt like I couldn't like

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Speaker 1: because the other people I knew were so judgmental. Nothing

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Speaker 1: was good enough, so I didn't know what to listen

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Speaker 1: to everything seemed like a socially bad option, so I

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Speaker 1: ended up not getting very into music. Everything just seemed

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Speaker 1: like the wrong choice, so I kind of just stayed

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Speaker 1: away from it, stuck to movies and theater. What about you.

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Speaker 1: I liked some punk music, but I'm similar to you.

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Speaker 1: Did have some music snobs in my life that made

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Speaker 1: it hard to like music out loud. Yeah, I didn't

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Speaker 1: feel like I liked bad music, but I also was like,

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Speaker 1: I know, I like some stuff you don't like. I

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Speaker 1: just don't care that you don't like it, but I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to talk about it and argue with you.

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Speaker 1: So I'd just be like, I'll just buy my ship

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Speaker 1: and listen to it and not tell you. I guess.

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Speaker 1: So that sucks. If you like something, you should let

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Speaker 1: people be stupid about it with you because they can

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Speaker 1: get better at liking it. So yeah, I like, I

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Speaker 1: had like some Dead Kennedy's and had some Dead Milkman,

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Speaker 1: and I had I loved the Ramons. Dead Kennedy's were

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Speaker 1: the ones who said Nazi punks, Yeah, yeah, lazy punks

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Speaker 1: go home, mild come back, we don't like you very much.

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Speaker 1: That's the kid spot version. Meanwhile, Bad Brains is out

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Speaker 1: there being like, hey, we black people do punk music too.

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Speaker 1: I didn't take that fucking sastick of your goddamn backpack,

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Speaker 1: you idiot. Anyway, Bad Brains is cool. That's another one

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Speaker 1: I really liked there. But we're here to talk about

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Speaker 1: Said Vicious and Nancy Sponging, who are two very challenging people.

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Speaker 1: Uh and that's a good word. Yeah, yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: it's a fascinating story. I was sucked in. I have

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Speaker 1: more on this document than I will ever be able

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Speaker 1: to fit into this podcast. But we're going to try

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Speaker 1: and consolidate that and tell you all the story of

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Speaker 1: Said and Nancy. Um, they were two very intense people

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Speaker 1: who only could have loved each other quite literally. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if anyone else on the planet would have

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Speaker 1: been able to tolerate either one of them as much

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Speaker 1: as they would each other. So in a way, you know,

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Speaker 1: they found each other, and there's something beautiful in that. Um.

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Speaker 1: But we'll look at their story and see if we

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Speaker 1: can find anything else beautiful because it's, uh, it's a

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Speaker 1: tough look. So yeah, that's like the one Flower and

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Speaker 1: the concretor, right right, Yeah, I'm excited though, Let's let's

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Speaker 1: get to it. Yeah, let's do it. So ladies and gentlemen,

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Speaker 1: put your hands to get up, because this is sid

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Speaker 1: suspicious and nutsy sponging or ridiculous romance. Hey the friends

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Speaker 1: come listen. Well Eion Diana as sorry to tell there's

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Speaker 1: no match making all romantic debts. It's just about ridiculous relationships.

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Speaker 1: I love him may be any type of face and

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Speaker 1: at all and that track concept or concrete whoa that

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Speaker 1: if there's a story with the second glass. But they

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Speaker 1: show ridiculous romance. A production of Radio So May nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifty seven. A man is born, a baby is born,

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Speaker 1: a child is born, a man is born. The man

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Speaker 1: sprung forth from his egg. His name was John Simon Ritchie,

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Speaker 1: very punk name, John Simon. He was born in London.

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Speaker 1: Now we can't talk about John Simon Ritchie without talking

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Speaker 1: about the Sex Pistols. They were one of the most influential,

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Speaker 1: most groundbreaking acts in music history. And this is they

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Speaker 1: burned bright and fast. They were not around for very long.

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Speaker 1: They kicked off the punk scene in the UK. So

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Speaker 1: there was this guy, Malcolm McLaren, Malcolm's of the Week,

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Speaker 1: welcome sort of our villain of the week. He's just

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Speaker 1: kind of our general asshole of the time. We have

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Speaker 1: a we have villain of the week, and then we

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Speaker 1: have general asshole of the time. I guess everyone in

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Speaker 1: this is sort of the villain of the week at Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of villains. Malcolm McLaren was like this

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Speaker 1: art school kid and he opened up a fashion store

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Speaker 1: with a woman named Vivian Westwood called Let It Rock

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Speaker 1: in London, and eventually Malcolm changed the name of the

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Speaker 1: store to just Sex. Sex Sells. You know, I guess

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Speaker 1: you're right, Malcolm, it does. That's all I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: do is sales stuff. And it became like basically a

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Speaker 1: fetish clothing weare stores lots of leather and fish nets

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Speaker 1: and collars and things like that. So one thing Malcolm

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Speaker 1: would do is he would kind of put customers together

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Speaker 1: into bands because he was also a band manager. And

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Speaker 1: there was these guys Paul Cook and Steve Jones that

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Speaker 1: would come in and shop a lot, and one day

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Speaker 1: he says to them, hey, you go to play with

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Speaker 1: my friend Glenn Matlock in his band. It's called Quie

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Speaker 1: Jones and the Sex Pistols. Glenn Matlock also a very

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Speaker 1: punk name. Yeah, right, I'm being sarcastic. By the way,

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Speaker 1: I think Glenn Matlock is a very good punning And

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Speaker 1: let's point out that he was not like, oh, Paul Cook,

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Speaker 1: Steve Jones, can you play an instrument? Did not matter

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Speaker 1: who was not irrelevant. In fact, there was this time

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Speaker 1: that he booted a guitarist and singer named Wally Nightingale

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Speaker 1: out of a band because he wasn't visually flashy enough,

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Speaker 1: because he wanted people to have a look in attitude.

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Speaker 1: It was more about that than the sound that they

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Speaker 1: were creating. So yeah, he was just like, y'all, look, y'all,

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Speaker 1: look the part, get up here and fucking hold this

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Speaker 1: and just kind of move your arm around. And Paul

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Speaker 1: and Steve fortunately could play instruments at least, so that

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Speaker 1: was good, but but it certainly wasn't his priority criteria.

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Speaker 1: But after he booted Wally, of course they needed a

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Speaker 1: new lead singer. So eventually they see this customer, John Leiden,

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Speaker 1: and they are like zeroed in on him because he

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Speaker 1: is wearing a Pink Floyd shirt. But he had scrawled

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Speaker 1: I hate onto it, so he said I hate Pink

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Speaker 1: Floyd and you know, it's Pink Floyd is huge at

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Speaker 1: this time. Everybody loves Pink Floyd. So they were like,

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Speaker 1: now this looks like my counterculture bro. So they added

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Speaker 1: him to the band. They shortened the name him to

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Speaker 1: sex Pistols because it made them sound like sixty young

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Speaker 1: assassins and Johnny, you know, John Lydon another not great

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Speaker 1: punk name, and I guess they want a stage name.

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Speaker 1: And he got his nickname Johnny Rotten because Steve saw

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Speaker 1: his teeth and said, you will rotten you all, which

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Speaker 1: is insulting frankly, But Johnny Rotten loved it. I know

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Speaker 1: he was like, yes, he said he liked it because

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Speaker 1: it was funny. If you're going to be dealing with

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Speaker 1: a ridiculous name, not the sex Pistols, you're fucked if

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Speaker 1: you're going to be taking it serious. Yeah. And this

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Speaker 1: was the thing with Johnny, like he kind of felt

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Speaker 1: like sex Pistols was intentionally a joke, like it was

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Speaker 1: supposed to just get under your skin and be flashy

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Speaker 1: and kind of irritate you and make you think twice.

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Speaker 1: And it was like like his shirt. Yeah, he knew

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Speaker 1: it was about attention. He knew it was about a joke,

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Speaker 1: and if you got the joke, you were awesome. If

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Speaker 1: you didn't or you didn't like them, then cool too.

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Speaker 1: Like whatever reaction they got was good. If the reaction was, yes,

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Speaker 1: you guys are fucking brilliant, great, If the reaction was

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Speaker 1: fuck you, your terror, you're destroying this country, then great, Yeah, good,

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Speaker 1: I don't like it here. And McLaren was really interested

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Speaker 1: in all these counterculture guys forming bands and stuff because

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Speaker 1: he kind of wanted to get a sound from the streets.

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Speaker 1: He was sort of like, listen, speaking of Pink Floyd

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Speaker 1: and other bands. Rock bands, you know are really big,

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Speaker 1: but they were millionaires, so they were kind of out

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Speaker 1: of touch at this point with what's really going on

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Speaker 1: in the world. In five McLaren said, rock is fundamentally

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Speaker 1: a young people's music, right. A lot of kids feel cheated,

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Speaker 1: They feel the music has been taken away from them

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Speaker 1: by that whole over twenty five audience. He saw a

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Speaker 1: void in the market. He was like, you know, look

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Speaker 1: at all these kids who fucking hate Pink Floyd because

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Speaker 1: they don't care. They're driving around in rolls. Royce's pretending like,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're singing songs for you and there's all

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Speaker 1: these poor kids, you know, owned out their asses in

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Speaker 1: the street basically saying fuck you know, it's not yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is not relevant to me, right. So they're building

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Speaker 1: the band up now, they've been recording, a couple of

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Speaker 1: singles are coming out. But Johnny Rotten had this friend,

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Speaker 1: John Ritchie, who we mentioned earlier, and Johnny was hanging

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Speaker 1: out with John Ritchie and he had a pet hamster

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Speaker 1: whose name was Sid, after Sid Barrett from Pink Floyd.

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Speaker 1: I guess that was like a fuck you to Pink Floyd,

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Speaker 1: is like to name my hamster after you? Or he

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Speaker 1: was like, Pink Floyd with Sid Barrett was cool, but

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Speaker 1: Pink Floyd without Sud bear stupid because Sid Barrett was

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Speaker 1: way crazier than than David Gilmore, I think. So. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So John Richie was playing with his hamster and it

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Speaker 1: bit him and he said, oh, Sid is really vicious,

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Speaker 1: and Johnny said, Sid Vicious, that's your name, And John

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Speaker 1: Ritchie was like, fucking cool, Yeah, it'll be Sid Vicious.

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Speaker 1: That's a good dope name. Yeah, I mean it's cool.

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Speaker 1: And these guys would go out on the street and

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Speaker 1: they would bust for money. They played tambourine and uh,

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Speaker 1: they would play Alice Cooper covers and people would pay

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Speaker 1: them to stop because they were so bad. Hey, whatever

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Speaker 1: works you mean. So in nineteen seventy six, Sid's nineteen

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Speaker 1: years old and he goes and plays his very first show.

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Speaker 1: He's playing drums for Susie and the Banshees at the

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Speaker 1: hundred Club Punk Festival and it is an improv set.

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Speaker 1: The band did not know any songs. They did not

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Speaker 1: I guess, rehearse or whatever for this. That's not very

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Speaker 1: punk to be prepared, um. And he did not know

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Speaker 1: how to play drums, so not a great set, I

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Speaker 1: would guess. And he actually missed an audition for The Damned.

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Speaker 1: He claimed that Dan Vannion gave him bad information to

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Speaker 1: sabotage him. Um. And on the second day of the

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Speaker 1: hundred Club Festival, Vicious threw a beer glass at Dan

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Speaker 1: Vannion while The Damned played, but he missed and the

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Speaker 1: glass hit a pillar where it shattered and it blinded

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Speaker 1: a girl in one eye, and so Sid was arrested

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Speaker 1: the next day. So sex Pistols are popping off. They've

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Speaker 1: got their first single out Anarchy in the UK, and

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Speaker 1: they go in for a last minute fill in on

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Speaker 1: a live TV broadcast after Queen dropped out because Freddie

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Speaker 1: Mercury had a dental appointment. So they're like, oh, we

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Speaker 1: don't have Queen, We don't have Queen. Who can we get? Oh? No,

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Speaker 1: the sex Pistols And you know, not that many people

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Speaker 1: know them personally at this point, they've heard their music,

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Speaker 1: but here they go on TV, live TV and they

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Speaker 1: are fucking just awful. They're cursing and saying fuck you

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Speaker 1: and just being really nasty and punk and very unpleasant

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Speaker 1: in general on this live TV broadcast. And the next

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Speaker 1: day they are headline news all over the UK. Now

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Speaker 1: everybody knows who they are and what they're like, which

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Speaker 1: is great for them and great for Malcolm McLaren. Glenn

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Speaker 1: Matlock left the band in ninetee. At the time McLaren

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Speaker 1: and the sex Pistol said he was kicked out because

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Speaker 1: he liked the Beatles and he washed his feet. He

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Speaker 1: washes his feet like some kind of straight edge. The's

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Speaker 1: two things you can't do in the sex Pistols, and

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Speaker 1: that's like the Beatles and wash yourself. Gross. We're all

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Speaker 1: supposed to smell like the bottom of a sewer, but

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Speaker 1: Mattlock later said he left on mutual agreement because Johnny

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Speaker 1: Rotten was getting a big ego after getting his name

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Speaker 1: in the papers. So after Mattlock left, they needed a

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Speaker 1: new basis, right, So they turned to the ultimate sex

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Speaker 1: Pistols fan. This kid who had been at every show,

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Speaker 1: loved every one of their songs, knew every one of

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Speaker 1: their songs inside and out. And that kid's name was

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Speaker 1: Sid Vicious. McLaren fucking loved it because McLaren was all

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Speaker 1: about the show and Sid Vicious was born to be

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Speaker 1: a showman. I mean, he really wanted the fucking attention

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Speaker 1: at all times and knew how to pull it to himself.

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Speaker 1: Johnny was basically always fighting with the other band members.

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Speaker 1: He had kind of an ego, and having Sid come

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Speaker 1: in and be on his side was something that he

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Speaker 1: really wanted. But the other two just thought Sid was

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Speaker 1: totally nuts. I guess the evidence of their eyes and

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Speaker 1: ears probably led them to think that. Yeah, but Sid

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Speaker 1: had no experience on bass, but it didn't matter because

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Speaker 1: again McLaren just loved him. So let's talk about Sid's mom,

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Speaker 1: because this kid came from somewhere. His mother was named Anne, Beverly.

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Speaker 1: She was a heroin addict and a drug trafficker, and

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Speaker 1: when he was a child, she actually used Sid to

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Speaker 1: smuggle drugs between Spain and England. She would put she

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Speaker 1: would like, stuff his clothes with heroin. According to History

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Speaker 1: Collection dot com, even Johnny Rotten was horrified when Sid

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Speaker 1: had a birthday and his mom came out and gave

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Speaker 1: him heroin as a present. So unsurprisingly, Sid is a

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Speaker 1: serious drug addict. Johnny said Sid would self mutilate for attention.

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Speaker 1: He said, if no one was taking notice of him,

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Speaker 1: he cut his hand something. You'd have to take your

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Speaker 1: mind off everything else and look at him, which is

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Speaker 1: exactly what McLaren wanted, of course. And when Johnny and

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Speaker 1: said lived together, said had a dark habit of strangling cats. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: with a belt. Really awful, just awful. This is the

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Speaker 1: kind of thing I mean, like we just said, it

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Speaker 1: was all about attention. I mean, he probably wasn't getting

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Speaker 1: it at home. It was just him and his mom,

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Speaker 1: and his mom strung out all the time, and so

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Speaker 1: he was desperate for attention and he would do horrible

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Speaker 1: things to get it because any attention to him was good.

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Speaker 1: In fact, negative attention was best. So we've got a

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Speaker 1: strung out young teenage kid in a very popular band,

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Speaker 1: prone to violence, surrounded by a bunch of people who

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Speaker 1: are going to encourage his worst behaviors. Hard to love

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Speaker 1: Old Sid. And across the pond in the States, there

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Speaker 1: was a girl born and the Philadelphia suburbs named Nancy

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Speaker 1: Sponge in very different upbringing from Sid, completely different. Nancy

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Speaker 1: was born to a suburban Jewish family. She had the

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Speaker 1: umbilical cord wrapped around her neck when she was born.

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Speaker 1: I did that as well. That happened to me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was born at home, chord twice around my neck,

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Speaker 1: totally blue, couldn't breathe. The story goes that um my

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Speaker 1: mom's midwife did the thing from a hundred one Dalmatians

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Speaker 1: with Lucky where she took a towel and just like rubbed,

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Speaker 1: like wake up, and then I like, that's so cute. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And that I was born dead a tolerable So you're

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Speaker 1: really a zombie. Actually yeah, technically, I guess. I am. Wow, nice,

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Speaker 1: I feel like you should just close that before we

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Speaker 1: got married. Well, it's not contagious, obviously, I guess you

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Speaker 1: haven't bit me enough. It was. It wasn't a big

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Speaker 1: deal for me, but they were very They were very

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Speaker 1: concerned that it did something to Nancy. She left the

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Speaker 1: hospital out brain damage. They said she was fine, but

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Speaker 1: she was incredibly violent as a young baby. It's weird

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Speaker 1: to think about a violent baby. Yeah. A pediatrician prescribed

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Speaker 1: to barbiturate for her as an infant, which is a

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Speaker 1: pretty intense sedative. And uh, that didn't work. Nancy's mother, Deborah,

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Speaker 1: who wrote a book called and I Don't Want to

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Speaker 1: Live This Life in autobiography of her raising Nancy. She wrote,

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Speaker 1: I know it's normal for babies to scream, but Nancy

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Speaker 1: did nothing but scream. I gotta pause because I can't

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Speaker 1: tell you enough about how insane this book is. And

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Speaker 1: even if you take it with a grain of salt,

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Speaker 1: if deborah stories about Nancy are half true, it is

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Speaker 1: the craziest stories I've ever heard. This kid was so

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Speaker 1: violent and aggressive and screaming, and not just screaming noise,

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Speaker 1: but brutal, vicious insults from a very young age. She

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Speaker 1: attacked a phone repairman when she was two. She tried

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Speaker 1: to kill a babysitter with a pair of scissors when

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Speaker 1: she was a little older than that when she was eleven,

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Speaker 1: she attacked her mother with a hammer and tried to

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Speaker 1: beat her to death. Doctor said, this is normal, it's

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Speaker 1: just youthful aggression, which it wasn't. How many kids are

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Speaker 1: you getting in here that attacked a babysitter with scissors

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Speaker 1: and ship like that is not normal? What's the weird

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Speaker 1: thing to tell someone? Other times they would say, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's clearly bad parenting, you know, and and and Nancy's

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Speaker 1: mom is like, well, I've got two other kids, because

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Speaker 1: Nancy had a younger brother and sister who are totally

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Speaker 1: fine and don't attack me with hammers. So I guess

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Speaker 1: I just got lucky with those two. They had another

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Speaker 1: one after the first one. I don't know. I might

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Speaker 1: have been like, uh, clearly I got something wrong in

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Speaker 1: this wound. We're not doing this again. I mean, she

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Speaker 1: was Damien. She was the good Son, the Exorcist, all

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Speaker 1: these horrible nightmare demon children wrapped in a one. She

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Speaker 1: was in and out of boarding schools. The schools would,

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Speaker 1: you know, try and find ways to kick her out,

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Speaker 1: but there was only a few in the country that

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Speaker 1: were able to handle someone like Nancy, and most of

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Speaker 1: them were way too expensive. They're talking eighteen dollars a month.

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Speaker 1: She would come home and scream and yell and say

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Speaker 1: fuck you for not letting me smoke in the house,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to kill you and all this crazy shit,

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Speaker 1: and all these systems were failing her, not just the

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Speaker 1: boarding schools, but psychiatrists regularly should say, you know some

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Speaker 1: some new psychiatrists say I've got I've got the solution,

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Speaker 1: come see me. And then within a month they'd say

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Speaker 1: I'm dropping her as a client. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: see her anymore because she's got a demon. You need

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Speaker 1: you need a priest, which they went to their rabbi

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Speaker 1: and he said, there's nothing I can do for you. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: rabbis don't do exorcisms. You need a Catholic priest. You

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Speaker 1: went to the wrong church for this particular issue. Nancy

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00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:00,200
Speaker 1: was extremely intelligent for her age, but even so this

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Speaker 1: boarding school graduated her very early, at the age of fourteen,

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Speaker 1: just because they just wanted to get rid of her.

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Speaker 1: They were like, whatever, get it, here's a diploma off. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like basically like you know, miss spongeon Um, your daughter

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00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,520
Speaker 1: is very bright. We're very happy to have had in

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Speaker 1: our school. Surely she'll be a shining star of our

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Speaker 1: amongst our alumni for years to come. Wow, I've never

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Speaker 1: heard that one before. Yeah, well we wanted the funk out.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to graduate her now that one I've heard.

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Speaker 1: I know it's four years early. But she'll be fine.

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Speaker 1: You know, she almost murdered several classmates and teachers. But

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Speaker 1: she'll probably do better at college. Yeah, surrounded by a

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Speaker 1: lot older people, with a lot older things that they

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Speaker 1: can do. Yeah, she'll really thrive. She went to the

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Speaker 1: University of Colorado in Boulder because she liked to ski

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Speaker 1: and it was a big skiing school. Sure, there's worse

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Speaker 1: reasons to go to a university, I feel. I think

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Speaker 1: her parents were like, if you like something, please do

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Speaker 1: it right. Also, that's very far away from from Philadelphia. Goodbye. Um.

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Speaker 1: But she got arrested for stealing skis. She was hanging

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Speaker 1: out with some bad kids who were stealing skis and

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Speaker 1: they were stashing them in her room. She didn't technically

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Speaker 1: steal the skis, but she was in a ski stealing ring.

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Speaker 1: She was the fence for the skis. She also bought

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Speaker 1: drugs from an undercover federal officer, but they did not

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Speaker 1: want to press charges on that because it was actually

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Speaker 1: this big undercover operation that they were running. So they

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Speaker 1: told Nancy's parents, listen, if she leaves Colorado, we'll drop

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Speaker 1: these charges. But you can't tell her why we dropped

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Speaker 1: the charges until the investigations over. So they booted out

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Speaker 1: of school for the ski thing. That's what they used

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Speaker 1: as their excuse basically. But Nancy, of course wasn't interested

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Speaker 1: in facts anyway, so she just blamed her dad. She

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Speaker 1: was like, you didn't fight hard enough for me to

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Speaker 1: stay in the school that I liked, So fuck you.

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Speaker 1: I hate you because she thought it was just this

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Speaker 1: ski theft feel it was an expulsionary thing. But he

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Speaker 1: was able to tell her a few years later after

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Speaker 1: the bus went through, but it was too late. She

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00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,400
Speaker 1: already had this grudge against him pretty much forever from

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Speaker 1: then on. So, yeah, she goes home. She's a monster,

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Speaker 1: and she ends up in this psychiatric center because she

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00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 1: flipped a car. She got no car accident, so they

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Speaker 1: arrested her, and great move by the American health care system.

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00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 1: The psychiatric center said, oh, yeah, she definitely needs to

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Speaker 1: be here. She needs help, but your insurance only covers

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00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,920
Speaker 1: thirty days and we can't help her in thirty days,

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00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 1: so by yeah, they actually said you waited too long

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Speaker 1: to bring her in. She's it'll take too long to

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Speaker 1: get her better. Again, just blaming the parents, right, And

385
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Speaker 1: deb was like, I tried to bring her into another

386
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Speaker 1: place and they told me it was my fault, so

387
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,880
Speaker 1: it's still my fault. And they did see one doctor

388
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 1: who did diagnose her with schizophrenia. His treatment option was

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00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 1: this thing that's it's not well thought of today by

390
00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:01,439
Speaker 1: most medical organizations. It's this big vitamin in action uh

391
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,400
Speaker 1: diet based sort of plan that's supposed to cure schizophrenia.

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Speaker 1: And of course most people are like, that's not gonna

393
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,399
Speaker 1: be a thing, but they couldn't afford to give her

394
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 1: that anyway. But she's back home and eventually she convinces

395
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Speaker 1: her parents to let her move to New York City

396
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,879
Speaker 1: and in Philadelphia it's not too far and they think,

397
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 1: you know, it seems dangerous, but oh, you gotta look

398
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 1: at this book to see what kind of situation they

399
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 1: were in, because it was such a nightmare to have

400
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Speaker 1: her around, especially for the other two kids. She was

401
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: very aggressive towards her younger sister especially, and I think

402
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 1: they're thinking, look, yes, it's a more volatile place, but

403
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,639
Speaker 1: maybe she'll find some happiness there and maybe that'll stabilize

404
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,680
Speaker 1: her um. So she goes to New York. So she's

405
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 1: in New York. She supports herself by doing some stripping

406
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 1: and some sex work, and she started to turn herself

407
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 1: into a punk legend because she saw this punk scene

408
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 1: and it really spoke to her, which makes sense to me, right.

409
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 1: She got, you know, her signature look, poofy leach, blonde hair,

410
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 1: kind of smeared makeup, she wore fishnets, really gaudy patterns

411
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Speaker 1: and colors, and she started providing bands with their heroine.

412
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Speaker 1: So she's a groupie for bands like Bad Company, Aerosmith,

413
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Speaker 1: the Ramons, the New York Dolls, which was a McLaren's

414
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,879
Speaker 1: other band, and Johnny Thunders and the Heartbreakers. But before

415
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 1: long she had worn out New York. The crowd thought

416
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 1: she tried too hard and her personality was really intense.

417
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 1: They called her nauseating Nancy, which is a really long nickname. Honestly,

418
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 1: they could have come up with something more snappy, I

419
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,360
Speaker 1: feel like nasty, but anyway, whatever, and she didn't really

420
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 1: fit in with the other groupies. Either because there was

421
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 1: a whole look for groupies that they had to kind

422
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 1: of conform to weirdly in this non conformist uh scene.

423
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: They all had to be skinny and tall and super hot,

424
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 1: and she wasn't. She was a little overweight. She was,

425
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 1: you know, I think a little short too, wasn't. Yeah,

426
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: And she kind of dressed her own way and stuff

427
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: and just and she was a bitch. She was hard

428
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 1: to be around. Um but it was probably jealousy because

429
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 1: she was sucking all these musicians and so she was

430
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: kind of competition for all these other groupies and they

431
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 1: were like, why are they sleeping with her? She's not

432
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 1: even as hot as me, you know, And that made

433
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 1: her real mad. She didn't like that. So she's mad

434
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 1: at everyone in New York and they all mad at her.

435
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: She needs a new scene, so she said, quote I

436
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: read the first sex Pistols review, which was ship, and

437
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: I said, I gotta get over there, and I started

438
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: saving up for London. This info comes from a book

439
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 1: called The Filth and the Fury by Julian Temple. Nancy

440
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 1: saved up five thousand dollars fourteen times, but every time

441
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 1: she would blow it on smack but then finally she

442
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 1: worked eleven days straight. She did not spend her money

443
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: on drugs. She spent it on a ticket to London.

444
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: So when she gets to London, she had to stay

445
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 1: at her friend Linda's flat because she was very sick

446
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 1: from heroin withdrawal. It was way easier to get heroin

447
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 1: in New y Or City at the time that it

448
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: was in London. So she's staying at Linda's where another

449
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 1: guy happened to be staying too. His name said Vicious,

450
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 1: and Sid was everything for her. He's a shitty miss,

451
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: She's a shitty mess. She was like, look another shitty mess. Yeah,

452
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: I'm interested in you, and Sid thought she fucking ruled.

453
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: She would tell him all about New York City and

454
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: what it was like to be a rock star there,

455
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: and he thought that sounded so fucking cool. And so

456
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: she went to every sex pistol show and hung out

457
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: and guess what the scene in London. They really didn't

458
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,479
Speaker 1: like her that much either, a very difficult person to like,

459
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: but she managed to find herself a heroin dealer. And

460
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 1: this arrowin dealer, of course, is like, holy shit, somebody's

461
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: buying a lot more heroin. All of a sudden and

462
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: she starts supplying it to the bands and basically made

463
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: herself very important. But Lee Childer, is a tour manager

464
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: of The Heartbreaker, said she was a junkie, she was

465
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: a drug supplier and an all around low life. She was,

466
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 1: and this is a quote, very very very very very

467
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: very bad influence on people who were already a mess. Oh.

468
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 1: Lee Childer was like, I can't, I can't think of

469
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: a word other than bad, So I'll just say very

470
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: six times so that you know what I'm trying to

471
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 1: come across. There's no other way to say. And if

472
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 1: she's a very bad influence on people who are already

473
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: a mess, well, who's already a mess? So she turns

474
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: SIDS already big drug problem into a huge heroin problem.

475
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: So they become inseparable, insufferable and separable, separable And because

476
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: nobody fucking liked Nancy, as we've already stated multiple times,

477
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 1: but also people barely liked Sid. Really, I guess he

478
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: was kind of funny, but otherwise he was just really

479
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: hard to be around. Everybody did say he was hilarious. Yeah,

480
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 1: I think if it was directed at someone else, it

481
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: was hilarious, But it was coming at you. You didn't

482
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: like it because he did deep but he was such

483
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: an attention junkie that people like could only take so

484
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 1: much of him. I think, yeah, but they really loved

485
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: each other. Um, but they were kind of addicted to

486
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: each other and drugs. Of course, they were also addicted

487
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: to drugs. We have not driven that point home yet.

488
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: So by the middle of the summer of nineteen seventy

489
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: seven they moved in together. So sex Pistols are having

490
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: some internal struggles at this point. Steve and Paul are

491
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: really into the groupies and the fame, where Glenn was

492
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: all about the music. Um. So when Glenn left and

493
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: Sid joined, that all changed. Yeah. In fact, Steve Jones

494
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: once said Corna regretted Glenn leaving because Sid couldn't play

495
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: a fucking note and he was dark man. It wasn't

496
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: fun anymore, it was, but he was Johnny Rotten's best friend.

497
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: So what we do? Actually, Sid was overdubbed by Steve

498
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: on their recording of God Save the Queen, one of

499
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: their most popular songs, because again, he can't play. So

500
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: I can kind of see why Steve was like, why

501
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: is this guy here? Lemmy from Motorhead actually tried to

502
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: teach him some bass. If anyone is going to teach

503
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: you the bass, right, it's from Motorhead. But it did

504
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: not stick, and Lemme said that Sid had no aptitude

505
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: for music at all. Sid really wanted to play on

506
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: their debut album, so he came down and he laid

507
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 1: down two tracks, but they were so bad, like we said,

508
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 1: Steve had to re dub them. But instead of being

509
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: able to play in the rest album, fortunately, as Steve

510
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: put it, Sid came down with a case of hepatitis,

511
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: so he was hospitalized while they were recording the album

512
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: and didn't get to play any any of the other tracks.

513
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: Steve played the whole thing. The album came out, it

514
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: was a pretty big hit. Rolling Stones said it was

515
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 1: just about the most exciting rock and roll record of

516
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 1: the seventies. And the band really hated Nancy being around.

517
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: Understandable because, as we say, she's very difficult to be around,

518
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: but also is maybe a little bit um sexist the

519
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: music industry. Yeah, Steve Jones even once said everyone knows

520
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: that when a bird stops poking a nose into rook

521
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: and roll band, it's fucking suicidal, you know. So he's

522
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: got already that attitude of like girls can't Oh my

523
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: basis is dating a girl that's going to ruin the band,

524
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: you know, Joko and the Beatles, all that. Now, I

525
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: mean in this case, however, you know what I'll say

526
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: is that Nancy didn't ruin the sex pistols said, did that? Yeah?

527
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: Steve even thought that Nancy had introduced Sid to heroin,

528
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: and Nancy definitely accelerated Sid's heroin use. But it wasn't her.

529
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: Sid came with heroin as part of the package. But yes,

530
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: she was a terrible influence. She said. I didn't suck

531
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: all the sex pistols, only Sid and Johnny. When Sid

532
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,239
Speaker 1: was hospitalized with hepatitis, he told her, Hey, heads up,

533
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: Johnny is definitely gonna try to hit on you while

534
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: I'm in here. Just you wait. And he did. But

535
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:58,719
Speaker 1: Nancy is too classy for his punctionanigans. Okay, he's like

536
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: a nutscy. Uh he sits laid up while you may

537
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: want we go fuck around in the bathroom. Uh No,

538
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: I'm not in the bathroom, fucker anymore. Take me to

539
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: your house. I'll niche for you. My house is dirtier

540
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: than the bathroom. Perfect, Steve said, that the first time

541
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: he met her, they were playing a show and she

542
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: showed up with Sid at sound check. He really felt

543
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: like she was sucking horrible from day one. Ever, he

544
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: said everything around her was a dark cloud. He said,

545
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: I've never felt a negative energy from anyone before, but

546
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: I fucking hated her and said had no nice words

547
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 1: for Stephen Paul. He said they were a couple of sheep.

548
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: He said, oh, they just do what ever, Malcolm says,

549
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: the terrifoid of anything to do with drugs. You know,

550
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: they just WIMPs. And Johnny had a big problem with

551
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: Nancy because she was Sid's heroin dealer girlfriends, and he

552
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: was kind of like, she's constantly telling Sid that he's

553
00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: the true star and that Johnny's an asshole. And Johnny

554
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 1: was like, she might be right, but the point is

555
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: Sid's mind mate, and I don't want him to be

556
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: a junkie. He was far too young for that ship.

557
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: So the band's having a tough time because Nancy's up

558
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: in here. Sid's all fucked up. They are flaming each

559
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: other out and everyone else is getting burned. So by

560
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: December seven, they had been banned from playing pretty much

561
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: anywhere in the UK, there was just a lot of violence,

562
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: especially with Sid around. Like one time in a bar fight,

563
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: Sid took a swing at a TV producer's friend with

564
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: a broken bottle and stabbed him in the wrist. Another time,

565
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: this journalist Nick Kent, was chain whipped by Sid one time,

566
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: and afterwards fans of Sid kept attacking the same journalist

567
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: just to emulate, said Vicious. He said he was stabbed repeatedly,

568
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: one time at King's Cross Station. At another time he

569
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: was at the Roxy in the bathroom and somebody attacked

570
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: him with a knife. He said. He asked him self,

571
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: did my colleague find himself in such life or death

572
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: situations when he was out reviewing Randy Newman? Probably, Well,

573
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: there's some violent Randy Newman fans out there. You got

574
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: a knife in me, You got a knife in me,

575
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: You got knives and there in me there is any

576
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: knife you would it put in me. Now I'm bleeding

577
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: out on the floor because you put a knife in me.

578
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: I think we're finally going to get that season to

579
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: Sister from Busney been waiting, So try and guess where

580
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 1: and when and for whom. You think their final UK

581
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: show was for the sex Pistols. Yeah where Yeah, it

582
00:32:54,040 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: was for death row inmates on Arbor Day in a

583
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: burned down factory. This is a fun version of clue

584
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: that we should make. But no, you were totally wrong.

585
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: That makes more sense. No, it was on Christmas Day

586
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: and they played for the children. It's true. Firefighters have

587
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: been striking for months and they were raising money and

588
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: the Sex Pistols came out to play their benefit and

589
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: honestly it actually went really well. Sid had to have

590
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: a stern talking to beforehand, because of course he wanted

591
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: to be violent and crazy and thrown ship and starting fights,

592
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: and somebody was like, hey, maybe that's not the best

593
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: way to get a message across the children, huh. And

594
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: so he chilled himself out and everybody had a really

595
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: good time. Even when the firefighters were like throwing stuff

596
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: at them while they played. It was all in good

597
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 1: fun and Nancy was there and Sid was happy and

598
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: everybody had a nice time. So that was their last

599
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: show in the UK before they decided to take on America,

600
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: and we will find out about that right after this. Alright,

601
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: welcome back. Well here Sex Pistols. They just finished what

602
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 1: would be their final show in the UK. They didn't

603
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: know what at the time, of course, uh. And they

604
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: were going on an American tour. Now, to Malcolm Mclair

605
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: and their manager, the chaos, like we said, was the

606
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 1: most marketable part. He once famously said, if Johnny's the

607
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: voice of punk, then Sid is the attitude. Atitude. He

608
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,439
Speaker 1: said that if he had met Sid first, Sid would

609
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: have been the frontman for the band hands down. Malcolm

610
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: also kept Sid on a really tight budget and he

611
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 1: would only give him a few dollars a week. It

612
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: was like twelve dollars American a week to live off of. Uh,

613
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: you know, while he in fact had a ship ton

614
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: more money. But Malcolm was basically controlling that, so the

615
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 1: band was chaotic. Anyway, Sid had grown in popularity and

616
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: accordingly arrogance. He was becoming more of a celebrity than

617
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: Johnny Rotten and they would often fight about that. Um

618
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: Usually Sid said something fucking awful to Steve or Paul,

619
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: and Johnny would jump in and say something sarcastic to

620
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 1: kind of piste it off and keep the fight going.

621
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: Um And said said Johnny turned against him because he

622
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,240
Speaker 1: thought he was taken over as like a new Johnny Rotten,

623
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 1: which Sid said, and like, that's a load of cobblers,

624
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 1: A load of cobblers. I gotta add that to my

625
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: load of cobblers. I love it. So in Malcolm McLaren says,

626
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: guess what we're going on the first American tour. It

627
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: was time to get the Americans. It's time to get

628
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 1: those Yanks to love the sex Pistols. Spoiler alert, No

629
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: it wasn't. So they're like, oh, fuck, yeah, we're going

630
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: to the States. We're gonna play New York, in Los

631
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 1: Angeles and Chicago and all these big cool cities. Right. No, Actually,

632
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: Malcolm McLaren booked them all the way across the South.

633
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: They started here in atlant know where we are, and

634
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: then they went to Memphis, Tulsa, Oklahoma, Dallas, Texas, and

635
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: San Antonio not quite where they were thirsty for punk music.

636
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: There's a famous picture of the Dallas Longhorn Ballroom Marquis

637
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 1: that says tonight, Sex Pistols January nine, Merle Haggard. So

638
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: that just kind of gives you an idea of the

639
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:28,919
Speaker 1: disconnect that's happening here. Malcolm obviously was doing this for

640
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 1: the action. He wanted to start fights, he wanted to

641
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 1: piss off the audience. He wanted to make headlines with

642
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: how outrageous this was going to be. Meanwhile, America had

643
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: been warning everyone in the headlines about the terrifying sex

644
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:45,720
Speaker 1: pistols coming to corrupt our children, which also sounds very American.

645
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 1: Do you know where your children are? They might be

646
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: cannibalizing each other and having sex with drugs? Your what

647
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,280
Speaker 1: children might be having sex with a with a drug

648
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: right now? Oh my god, the full story tonight. Tune

649
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: in or die. Oh honey, we better watch this. Sounds important.

650
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: It's my patriotic duty to watch this news program tonight.

651
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:18,399
Speaker 1: Where are our kids? Oh, they're outside catching fireflies. Um.

652
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: The sex pistols were having trouble getting visas to come

653
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: to America because all four of them had a criminal record,

654
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: and the FBI and the CIA continuously followed them while

655
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: they were here. They were stripped searched at the airport. Yeah,

656
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: and they said, I remember Steve said something like, uh,

657
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 1: they were really glad that Sid got strip searched first,

658
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: because they were like, as soon as they cleared him,

659
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,399
Speaker 1: we knew we were okay. All right. Everyone Sid made

660
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: it through. We're all right. Because if anyone was going

661
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 1: to funk this up for us, and Johnny thought it

662
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: would be better if Sid was with him the whole time,

663
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: like kind of as a I guess, a little bit

664
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: of a babysitter, like a Buddy System kind of thing.

665
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:04,399
Speaker 1: But it did not really work out. Yeah, McLaren had

666
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: banned Nancy from coming on this tour. You know, I

667
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: get it. It's like inviting a hurricane with you a

668
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,240
Speaker 1: nice beach weekend. Was like, look, I want terrible things

669
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 1: to happen on this tour and make headlines for it,

670
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 1: but I don't want terrible things that aren't of my design.

671
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 1: You know, Nancy was just an unpredictable element in this

672
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: violent equation. But without Nancy there too, babysit Sid, Sid

673
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 1: went a little bit more crazy than usual. He got

674
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 1: kind of unhinged. He was just looking for heroin the

675
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: entire time because Nancy had told him, Oh, you know,

676
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: heroin is super easy to get in America, and also

677
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: it's oh my god's so good and so as Steve said,

678
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: they got real depressing and real quick in America. I agree, Steve.

679
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: And most of their shows ended in brawls, fill on fights. Yeah,

680
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: there's this notoriously horrible show in Dallas where like Sid

681
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 1: got punched in the face and was played with blood

682
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 1: dripping down his face the whole time, and he kept

683
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: like antagonizing cowboys Like this cowboy put his cigarette out

684
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: on his hand, looking at Sid and being like, you know,

685
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: but he can't do that. So Sid took a knight

686
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,479
Speaker 1: and slit his own hand open and then just sat

687
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 1: down at the table and started eating a burger with

688
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: blood dripping down his arm and all over his food.

689
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: So the cowboys are like, ok, lease, kids, fucking crazy.

690
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: I'm hardcore, but that's just nuts. And then in San Antonio,

691
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: Sid like swung his guitar at this kid and tried

692
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: to hit him with his guitar, which might have killed him.

693
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: And they said, it's a ten pound guitar, and swinging

694
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: at that heavy like a bat could really seriously injured,

695
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 1: if not killed somebody. He missed, fortunately, and like grazed

696
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 1: a roadie that was trying to stop them from fighting.

697
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: But also because Sid wasn't finding heroin, he was drunk

698
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 1: the entire time and on whatever else he could get

699
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 1: his hands on, pills, other drugs, you know, just fucking

700
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,359
Speaker 1: stoned as much as he could be. He was not

701
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: a man who functioned well in a sober state. And yeah,

702
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: so they get to San Francisco and on January and

703
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: Sids like not super impressed with America at this point

704
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,359
Speaker 1: until I got to Frisco and tasted the smack there

705
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: fucking straight from Mexico. It's really fucking good. You should

706
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: try it sometime, he told an interviewer. It was probably like,

707
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 1: that's okay good. So Sid finally found his American smack,

708
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 1: pure as hell, and it was a dream come true

709
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: for him. It was just like, you know, just him

710
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 1: and a bag of heroin, just running towards each other,

711
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 1: skipping through a meadow rainbow in the sky. So when

712
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 1: they would perform, he was just so fucked up at

713
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: the show that he wasn't even pretending to play on stage.

714
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: In fact, he was unplugged for most of it. So

715
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: the rest of the band were pretty pissed about that.

716
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: They played for nearly an hour, which was twice as

717
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: long as they played in Dallas. So they come out

718
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 1: for the encore and they play a cover of the

719
00:40:55,920 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 1: Stooges song No Fun. And during this song, Johnny is

720
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: breaking down his inability to communicate with Stephen, Paul and

721
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: Sid's behavior and the way Malcolm has been treating the band.

722
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: He's just done. And he crouches down towards the end

723
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 1: of the song and Steve and Paul are jamming out

724
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: and Sid of course off in his own fucking world,

725
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,800
Speaker 1: and Johnny crouches down on the stage and he's singing

726
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: no fun, no fun, there's no fun and being alone

727
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: this is no fun, no fun at all. And by

728
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: the end of the song he's literally just sitting on

729
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: the stage. This video at this and you should watch it.

730
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 1: He is staring out into the crowd just blank. You

731
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: can see it in his eyes that he is so

732
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,439
Speaker 1: fucking done with what's going on around him. And as

733
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 1: the chords come to an end, Johnny says, a ha ha,

734
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: ever get the feeling you've been cheated? Good night, and

735
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: he walks off stage. Later in Rolling Stone, he said

736
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: that quote was directly aimed at management. He said the

737
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,919
Speaker 1: band was falling apart. Steve and Paul just wouldn't talk

738
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: to me. Sid was completely out of his brains, just

739
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: a waste of space, And he said Malcolm wouldn't speak

740
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: to him. But then Malcolm would turn around and tell

741
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 1: Paul and Steve it's all Johnny's fault. You know, Johnny's

742
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,240
Speaker 1: the one who's being a diva. Johnny is the problem

743
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: with the band. So it was just a fucking mess.

744
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 1: So the tour was twelve days and seven cities and

745
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: the band was done. The sex pistols were done. That

746
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: was the end of that. So Johnny flew to New

747
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 1: York City and he announced that the band had broken up.

748
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 1: On janu Sid flew to New York City and was

749
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: immediately hospitalized. So Sid goes back to UK and Nancy. Yeah,

750
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: well if you want to call that safe, and Sid

751
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 1: said he just didn't respect Johnny anymore. He said, at

752
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 1: one time that guy looked like a shiny star. I

753
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 1: still like him, but I've gotten no respect for him.

754
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 1: I wish I could still be friends with him. I'm

755
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: really upset about it. Of Coorstid, Yeah, it was weird.

756
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 1: There's this weird thing with Sid where like sometimes if

757
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 1: you watch him in interviews, he is kind of asking

758
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: for help. He's kind of saying like I want to

759
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 1: care about things, I want some connections, but you just

760
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: can't do it because as soon as you as soon

761
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: as you extend your hand to him, he stabs it, right,

762
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 1: So there's something weird about that with some some people

763
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 1: who really want help and even ask for it, but

764
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: if you offer it, you're immediately like, yeah, not a

765
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 1: person they want to associate with, or something like maybe

766
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 1: it's an ego thing too, where you're like, hey, I

767
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: really need some help, and some I's like, hey, can

768
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: I help you, and you're like, I don't need any help. Help,

769
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: dare you? I'm doing great? You know. I wonder if

770
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 1: there's something like that kind of a knee jerk like

771
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: I'm fine, what do you mean, Nancy. I'll always wanted

772
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 1: to be a band manager. She thought she really understood

773
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: the business and knew it really well. She said. If

774
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: I managed the sex pistols, I'd save their fucking private lives,

775
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: give them a bank account. If they spend all their money,

776
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 1: that's their fault, which is true. But I could also again,

777
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 1: like you said, I see Malcolm being like, I'm not

778
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: trying to have a bunch of dead rock stars on

779
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 1: the hands. Yeah, I mean, you know again, personal responsibility

780
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 1: is one thing, but in the face of like severe

781
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,800
Speaker 1: drug addiction, you kind of need to help somebody manage

782
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 1: their funds. I think to a certain degree she probably

783
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: did really want him to get all his money. I

784
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 1: have some of the drugs that he would buy with it.

785
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: Why do you think she was so pissed that Malcolm

786
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: didn't give him his full right, She's probably like, I

787
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,720
Speaker 1: can't afford any fucking heroin right now on your twelve

788
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: dollars a week. Where's the rest? Where's the rest? Malcolm.

789
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,720
Speaker 1: Malcolm McLaren was trying to get the Sex Pistols movie made,

790
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: so he was still trying to get the band to

791
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 1: record the soundtrack for that movie, and he kept telling Sid, oh,

792
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: you'll be the front man, said, You're gonna be a star.

793
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: I'm telling you kids, you're gonna be the biggest thing

794
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: in this country since fucking uh you know, uh beans

795
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 1: for breakfast. You're gonna be the biggest thing in this

796
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 1: country since uh, since since crumpets and tea. You're gonna

797
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 1: be the biggest thing in this country since since the

798
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:28,919
Speaker 1: Battle of Hastings and sixty six. Right. But Sid wasn't

799
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 1: having it. He was kind of sick of McLaren. He

800
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,399
Speaker 1: knew the game, he had seen it, and probably having

801
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 1: Nancy in his ear turned him off. Of it as well,

802
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 1: because again, Nancy's no dummy. No, it's true. If there's

803
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 1: one thing Nancy could do, and and friends said this

804
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 1: about her, she could see someone conning her from a

805
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 1: hundred miles away. You were not going to pull one

806
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: over on Nancy. Yeah, she thought, said would do better

807
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: on his own. So she's probably like, you need more

808
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 1: than twelve dollars a week, you should do I'll manage you,

809
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,399
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. And so Sid agreed to perform a

810
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 1: cover of My Way, but only if Malcolm signed like

811
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: a document saying I'm not your manager anymore. I'm not

812
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: going to funk with you. And My Way was a hit,

813
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 1: did really well, um, but the music video had to

814
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,879
Speaker 1: be shot line by line because Sid was so fucked up.

815
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 1: You can tell if you find this video out there.

816
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,240
Speaker 1: It is very very short shots. I'll edit it together.

817
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:24,720
Speaker 1: And Sid is never in the same shot as anyone

818
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: else in the video because they probably had him propped

819
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 1: up on strings. Sid's mother, for what it's worth, was

820
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 1: also mad at Nancy, and Johnny said, two women in

821
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 1: a grammar smack and a young boy. It is a

822
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 1: very very volatile situation. But Sid's like this, Ah, He's

823
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:49,720
Speaker 1: just this weapon everyone's trying to use. Also, if Sid's

824
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 1: like Sid's like the one ring, you know, he is

825
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:59,280
Speaker 1: this like incredibly destructive, powerful thing that everyone is drawn

826
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: to for some reason and they don't know why. And

827
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 1: everybody thinks they can be the ones to control him

828
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 1: and use for their own benefit, and you can't. He

829
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: is too destructive, corrupts you. So Nancy did take over

830
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: as Sid's manager. He rebranded as a solo artist, but

831
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 1: their relationship was a mess um. She would verbally abuse

832
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 1: him if he showed up without drugs. When we say

833
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: verbally abused from Nancy, it's horrible. I mean the ship

834
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 1: she would say. I don't know what she said specifically

835
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 1: to Sid, but the ship she said to her parents

836
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 1: like it, like it upset me greatly. I felt like

837
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 1: injured by it because she just knew how to hurt

838
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,360
Speaker 1: people with her words, uh, in a way like I

839
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 1: like she was a master at it. Probably part of

840
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 1: that smart thing where she's like, I can see exactly

841
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 1: what would hurt you the most to hear right now,

842
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,360
Speaker 1: and that's what I'm gonna say. So she just scream

843
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 1: at him and then until he lost his temper got

844
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: violent with her, and people were just getting over them.

845
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 1: You know, they were just done with Sid and Nancy.

846
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 1: It's like too much, you know, they're just too much,

847
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:16,240
Speaker 1: especially together. So and Sid missed that American smack Golden

848
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 1: Smack on a Hill that he was trying to get

849
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 1: to again. So they decided in August seventy eight to

850
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: move to New York City together. And we're going to

851
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 1: hear all about that moved to New York City and

852
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: the resulting few months that they lived there when we

853
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 1: get back from this commercial break. Welcome back. It is

854
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: August of ninet and Sid and Nancy has moved into

855
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:45,320
Speaker 1: the Hotel Chelsea under the names Mr and Mrs John Richie.

856
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 1: The Hotel Chelsea is this weird socialist artsy haven. This

857
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: socialist had bought the hotel and he was like, I

858
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: want culture to live here. Sounded like actually kind of

859
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 1: a cool place. Everybody lived at the Hotel Chelsea and

860
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 1: talking Bob Dylan Boskie, that Midler lived there, Jimmy Hendrix

861
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 1: and Jim Morrison lived there for a while. This was

862
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 1: the hot spot to be. So Nancy says, Sid's going

863
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 1: to do better with American audiences. And this is Nancy's

864
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: return to New York because she's kind of showing off

865
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 1: to all those haters that she had. All these girls like,

866
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: oh my god, is that Nancy Sponge in with said Fishes.

867
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 1: She's sitting said fishes. Oh my god, Um, I wanted

868
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:33,240
Speaker 1: to date said fish. I was going to date fid Fishes. Well,

869
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 1: I was going to date, said I was gonna tate

870
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 1: Fid Fishes. There Grippy's voices just getting hired, and then

871
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 1: this like old chain smoking grandma comes in, like I

872
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: was gonna date said Fishes. The scene is mad. They're like, oh,

873
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:53,799
Speaker 1: we already didn't like Nancy, and now she's back here

874
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: shoving this ship in our face. But nobody in America

875
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 1: really gave a ship about punk music. I mean, obviously

876
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 1: we changed our minds about the hat eventually, but at

877
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: this point it wasn't a big thing. New York City

878
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 1: is crime britten, it's dangerous, it's super dirty. It's just

879
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 1: a totally different town than it is now. And Sid

880
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 1: and Nancy fell in with all these creeps, which makes

881
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 1: sense because they're creeps. Yeah, at this point in New

882
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: York City, I read somewhere that there was something like

883
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: seventy five major violent crimes or felonies committed every hour

884
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 1: for basically two thousand a day. Friends of Sid and

885
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 1: Nancy said in an article in New York Magazine that

886
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 1: Sid and Nancy We're going down the toilet man. Everyone

887
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 1: could see it. To hang out with them was to

888
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 1: make a grievous mistake for your own health, and even

889
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: hardcore users avoided them. It was so bad in their

890
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 1: room in the Hotel Chelsea that the manager moved them

891
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: down to room one hundred because it was next to

892
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 1: his office and he needed to keep a closer eye

893
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:54,399
Speaker 1: on them. He'd be like, your neighbors won't be calling

894
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 1: the file a sound complaint because I'm your neighbor and

895
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: I'm always complaining about your sound. And I'm gonna call

896
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 1: my other line. Hello, Hello, Yes, side Nancy. Make it

897
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 1: a big fucking crazy noise again. Yeah, and no surprise there.

898
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 1: What do you want me to do about it? I

899
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 1: don't know something anything, well, I can't okay, goodbye, Yeah,

900
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: Side Nancy. Make a lot of noise, I know, so

901
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 1: a lot of can't even here? You click yeah. And

902
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,800
Speaker 1: people did say Sid was sometimes very violent towards Nancy, physically.

903
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: They did this cable access like call in show in

904
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,400
Speaker 1: late September. People are calling in to ask them questions,

905
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 1: and someone asked Nancy about how she felt about the

906
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 1: feminist movement, and Nancy was like, pretty strung out but

907
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:39,959
Speaker 1: weirdly articulate, and she said, I believe in it a lot.

908
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 1: Sid's about the only male I know that's not a

909
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: male chauvinist. Somebody says, oh, you mean he beats on

910
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 1: women as well as men. No, he doesn't beat on

911
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 1: women at all. He's he beats on he beats on

912
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 1: anyone who gets in his way. So, yeah, it's such

913
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:00,759
Speaker 1: a weird interview. It's mean people are calling in to

914
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: attack them. People calling in and being like, your music's derivative?

915
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 1: Why do you keep saying you have a message when

916
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:10,800
Speaker 1: you don't? Uh, you know, what are you trying to say?

917
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: Why are you copying all these people? And Sid he

918
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: never looks up. He's really mumbly. It's just you know, well, ever,

919
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 1: I'll just I'll just say whatever, fuck you. And Nancy's

920
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 1: kind of handling the whole interview really well in a

921
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 1: weird way. I mean she's combative, but in a really

922
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: smart way. Really seeing her kind of intelligent side come out.

923
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 1: Why at times I think like, yeah, she probably would

924
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 1: have been a good band manager. Yeah, maybe so, because

925
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 1: he played some successful shows after this to um. Yeah,

926
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,800
Speaker 1: in late September, Sid's playing shows at this rock and

927
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 1: roll club, Max's Kansas City, very famous hot spot. I

928
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 1: love to go there sometime. If I could time travel

929
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 1: and go to Max's Kansas City, that would be dope.

930
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:56,800
Speaker 1: But he made a lot of cash, and people would

931
00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 1: follow them around because what's of cash? We're just falling

932
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 1: out of their pockets. I guess they couldn't fit all

933
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:08,439
Speaker 1: the money, and their skinny jeans pants were too tight.

934
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 1: I mean, he was getting four thousand dollars for some

935
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 1: of these shows cash. That's quite a leap from twelve

936
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: dollars a week. So October eight, Nancy and Sid called

937
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:22,359
Speaker 1: Deborah according to her book, and say we need three

938
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 1: thousand dollars because Nancy's really sick. And Deborah is like, well, no,

939
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 1: first of all, I don't have three thousand dollars just

940
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:33,439
Speaker 1: to review. That's a lot of money. Um. But she's

941
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 1: also like, we have a rule, and the rule is

942
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 1: if you go to the hospital, you go to the doctor.

943
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 1: You send me the bill and I'll pay it. But

944
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 1: I'm not just going to give you a bunch of

945
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: cash because I know my daughter, she's a drug addict.

946
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 1: What happens when you give a drug addict a bunch

947
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 1: of cash, they don't go to the doctor. And Deborah

948
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:51,840
Speaker 1: has met Sid at this point too, I'll say like

949
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 1: they've met, they know each other. She knows, she toasted,

950
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 1: she knows where the money is going. Okay. Then she

951
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 1: also says in her book that Nancy called her back

952
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 1: by herself, without SID this time, and told her that

953
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: Sid had been beating her up and that the beatings

954
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:11,720
Speaker 1: had started again, and asked her if if she would

955
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:14,240
Speaker 1: pay for her instead to go to a detox hospital

956
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania. And Deborah was like, okay, I'll look into it.

957
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 1: But Nancy said, I won't go anywhere where they locked

958
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:23,800
Speaker 1: the doors. I'm not gonna be locked up. So Debora

959
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: was like, all right, you know what, I'll call around,

960
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 1: I'll find a place. Well, we'll get this done for you.

961
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 1: And Nancy told her she loved her and she loved

962
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,839
Speaker 1: her dad, and Deborah wrote it was almost as if

963
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:40,319
Speaker 1: she was saying goodbye. Then october T Sid had been

964
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 1: getting beaten up more and more often. I wonder why

965
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,360
Speaker 1: he wasn't making friends. I think it's so weird that

966
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 1: people wanted to beat up this crazy dude. People were

967
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 1: put off by him. Mmmm weird. So Nancy thought the

968
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 1: best way to handle that was to buy Sid a knife.

969
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 1: And then on October eleven, Neon Leon, who's this other musician,

970
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 1: great name, uh said Nancy came into their room and

971
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:06,399
Speaker 1: showed them a bruise on the side of her face

972
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 1: and said, look what Sid did to me, and said

973
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,760
Speaker 1: that he had hit her with his guitar. Yeah, apparently

974
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 1: took a swing. So the morning of October twelfth, by

975
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 1: which I mean like midnight that night, and this information

976
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 1: all comes from like New York magazine to a big

977
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:24,280
Speaker 1: article Daily Mail, and then an article from the Soho

978
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:27,839
Speaker 1: Weekly in nine so in room one hundred where Sidding

979
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 1: Nancy stayed, there was a ton of activity constantly. I

980
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:32,799
Speaker 1: mean day in day out. There's always people coming in

981
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:36,560
Speaker 1: and out the room with drugs, getting drugs, doing drugs.

982
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 1: Big drug room. I mean, this is why the manager

983
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 1: was complaining to himself. Sid and Nancy were out of

984
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 1: heroin and they were looking for any fix at all.

985
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,880
Speaker 1: They didn't care what it was. And Neon Leon said

986
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 1: that Sid was hanging out swishing his knife around, showing

987
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 1: it off, saying, look at my cool fucking knife. Liquid

988
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:59,239
Speaker 1: I got, look at his knife. I got. Everybody look

989
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 1: out for my not I'm gonna kill somebody, And they

990
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 1: kind of brushed it off because he always said he

991
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 1: was going to kill somebody. Boy who cried murder. Yeah,

992
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna kill someone. I'm going to do something outrageous.

993
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:15,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna drink your blood whatever. They had twenty four

994
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:18,799
Speaker 1: thousand dollars in cash because they had just come in

995
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 1: from royalties from his deal with Virgin Records, and everybody

996
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 1: who came into that room said, you knew there was

997
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 1: twenty four thousand dollars in cash in that room because

998
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 1: it was just strewn about. That's so stupid, so dumb.

999
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 1: I mean, they were not clever kids in that respect.

1000
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 1: So Sid went out and bought thirty pills of a

1001
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 1: drug called two and All, which is a now discontinued

1002
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:42,400
Speaker 1: Barbara she read it was a sleeping pill basically, and

1003
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 1: he took all thirty of them like people watched him

1004
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:48,359
Speaker 1: do this, and at one am Nancy called her friend

1005
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:50,840
Speaker 1: Victor Calichio, who was an actor who lived in the Chelsea,

1006
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:53,400
Speaker 1: and she wanted drugs from him. He came in. He

1007
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:57,319
Speaker 1: said Sid was completely passed out in the bed and

1008
00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:00,320
Speaker 1: that there was another man in the room named Michael's.

1009
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 1: The only name people know was Michael. He was a tall, skinny,

1010
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 1: blonde British actor who was new around the hotel. He

1011
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 1: just moved in and nobody knew him very well. At

1012
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:13,680
Speaker 1: two thirty am, Nancy called Rockets red Glare, another great

1013
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 1: name who was an actor. He often worked as a

1014
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 1: bodyguard for Sid and also for bosciyat the Artist and

1015
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 1: he was a stand up comedian who toured with Steve

1016
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 1: Bushmi and he was friends with Willem Dafoe. Like this,

1017
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 1: Rockets red Glare got around, He gets around. He was

1018
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 1: later in Big Oh, Rockets Red Glare and Big Tom Hanks,

1019
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: so Nancy was only a few degrees removed from Tom Hanks,

1020
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 1: America's Sweetheart, Erica's Sweetheart, and America's Sour Patch Kid. Nancy

1021
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 1: asked Rockets Red Glare for Delouded, which is a morphine

1022
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 1: like drug. At three oh five am, their neighbor Lisa

1023
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 1: Garcia in room one oh three, said she heard a

1024
00:57:57,120 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 1: pounding on her door and this man yelling let me in,

1025
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 1: let me in. I'm not playing, but she just ignored

1026
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 1: it because she's like, I'm not expecting anybody that's not

1027
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 1: for me. I'm gonna hide in my room quietly, and

1028
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 1: he went away. At four am, Nancy called Neon Leon

1029
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 1: to get some pot, and she said, not really loud,

1030
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 1: because we're going to be passed out and we want

1031
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:19,919
Speaker 1: the drugs, so just not really loud and we'll wake

1032
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 1: up so we can buy it um. But he didn't go,

1033
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 1: but he did hear some scuffling in the hallway and

1034
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 1: a metallic object dropped, maybe a knife. At five am,

1035
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 1: Sid was seen stumbling around the second floor hallway, so

1036
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:39,040
Speaker 1: he'd somehow come out of his two and all stupor.

1037
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 1: He was stumbling around and somebody called a complaints, so

1038
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 1: a bellhop went up to handle him. Sit tried to

1039
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:49,120
Speaker 1: attack the bellhop, so the bellhop hit him back and

1040
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 1: rustled into the ground. He said, I just kept hitting

1041
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 1: him until he went down. And so he's walking away

1042
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 1: and Vicious looks up, blood all over his face. He says,

1043
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 1: is just what you do? To a drunk yeah if

1044
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:07,920
Speaker 1: you text me so. With blood born out of his

1045
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 1: mouth and nose, Sid walked back towards the staircase. The

1046
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 1: bell hops says, I don't know if he went back

1047
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 1: to his room, but he did go to the staircase.

1048
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 1: At five thirty am, an anonymous resident said that Sid

1049
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 1: stumbled bloody into her room. She screamed to kick him out.

1050
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: Then the next thing anyone knows happened is at ten am,

1051
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 1: Sid woke up, The money was gone, and Nancy was

1052
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 1: under the bathroom sink, slumped up against the wall. A

1053
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 1: knife wound to her abdomen, and she was dead. Police

1054
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:46,680
Speaker 1: arrived and Sid was quickly arrested. Not a single other

1055
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 1: person in the hotel was brought in for police questioning.

1056
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 1: None of the other people who were in the room

1057
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 1: that night were treated as suspects, even though the mysterious

1058
00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 1: Michael guy was seen with a lot of cash tied

1059
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 1: with Nancy's purple hair tied that she wore a lot,

1060
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 1: and he moved out in the next few days and

1061
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 1: was never seen again, but the police made zero attempt

1062
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:12,920
Speaker 1: to find him. The corner speculated that she was stabbed

1063
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: between six and seven am. And died between eight and

1064
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:20,800
Speaker 1: ten am. Initial reports say that Sid confessed to the murder,

1065
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 1: but Inside Edition said that's not accurate. Um a police

1066
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 1: report that sid lawyer has says that Sid did never

1067
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 1: confessed to killing his girlfriend. I guess there's a quote

1068
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:34,240
Speaker 1: I did it because I'm a dirty dog, but that

1069
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: was possibly coerced out of him or maybe taken out

1070
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 1: of context. But he said all kinds of conflicting things.

1071
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 1: He said, I stabbed her, but I never meant to

1072
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:44,960
Speaker 1: kill her. He said, we argued and she fell on

1073
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 1: the knife. He said, I don't remember anything since one

1074
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 1: in the morning, so his story is all over the place.

1075
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 1: And I was fucked up, so he probably, even if

1076
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 1: he did do something, probably did not remember it well.

1077
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 1: And some friends theorizes that that's exactly what happened, is

1078
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:01,919
Speaker 1: that he woke up up, I saw that Nancy was dead,

1079
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 1: saw the blood everywhere and on him, and just assumed

1080
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 1: he did do it, oh, because he was bloody from

1081
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:11,040
Speaker 1: the bellhop. Yeah. Yeah. So Sid was put in jail,

1082
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 1: but Malcolm McLaren caught word and he hired a lawyer

1083
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 1: for him and raised bail for him. So I guess

1084
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:20,440
Speaker 1: Malcolm still felt a little, a little bit of responsibility.

1085
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 1: I think Malcolm thought, this kid's going to be even

1086
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 1: more in the headlines. I wonder what else I can

1087
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:30,080
Speaker 1: make off of him? Yeah, Actually, Richard Branson and Virgin

1088
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 1: Records front allar bail, so he couldn't spent that on

1089
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 1: going to space. Oh wait, don't worry. Yeah, but people,

1090
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 1: I mean again, I find it hard to believe anybody

1091
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: had any real love for him, and they didn't just

1092
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 1: see this as an opportunity like that kid's too valuable

1093
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:50,200
Speaker 1: to go to jail. There was always money to be made,

1094
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 1: understood vicious. Yeah. In fact, by mid October, McLaren's shop

1095
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:59,320
Speaker 1: Sex his fashion shop is selling t shirts with Sid's

1096
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 1: picture on it that say I'm alive, She's dead, I'm yours. Gross.

1097
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:10,160
Speaker 1: That's so especially because, I mean especially for many reasons,

1098
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 1: I guess, but especially for kind of gross because he

1099
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,960
Speaker 1: actually did really like love Nancy. It wasn't that he

1100
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 1: was like waiting to shake her off and get out

1101
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 1: with somebody else. He really cared about her. So this

1102
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 1: is a tragedy for Sid. And now he's like, oh good,

1103
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 1: now you can fund other people, and I'm gonna sell

1104
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 1: shirts about it like, that's so fucking crazy exactly, because

1105
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 1: it's not just capitalizing off this girl being dead, it's

1106
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 1: also capitalizing on how much everyone hated her. Yes, totally, like,

1107
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 1: oh remember how much you hated this girl. Well, now

1108
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:47,720
Speaker 1: she's dead, so let's celebrate. Like it's twisted. Yeah, it's twisted.

1109
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:51,120
Speaker 1: On October, ten days later, said his home with his

1110
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 1: mom and he tried to kill himself. He slashed his

1111
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:58,680
Speaker 1: wrist with a broken lightbulb after taking his whole method

1112
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:03,360
Speaker 1: on supply. So he's down and his mom and she

1113
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 1: calls Malcolm McLaren, who had come over to the States.

1114
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:09,560
Speaker 1: He rushes over and Sid begs them to be finished off.

1115
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 1: He says that he and Nancy had a suicide pact

1116
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:16,160
Speaker 1: and that he should be dead too. So he ends

1117
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 1: up hospitalized at Bellevue in New York. But even while

1118
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:20,880
Speaker 1: he was there, he tried to jump out a window,

1119
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:24,640
Speaker 1: saying I want to be with Nancy. In December of

1120
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:30,080
Speaker 1: Sid has a new girlfriend. It's an actress named Michelle Robinson,

1121
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:33,480
Speaker 1: and he gives an interview from home with Michelle sitting

1122
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 1: right next to him. He again he is strung out,

1123
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:40,920
Speaker 1: he's super depressed. He's barely answering questions. They asked him like,

1124
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 1: what do you want to do next? I want to

1125
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:45,720
Speaker 1: have some fun. You're not having fun now, are you

1126
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:48,520
Speaker 1: kidding me? No? Not having fun? Well, where do you

1127
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 1: want to be? Under the ground y? Yeah, that's not

1128
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 1: a bit. That's that's literally how that interview went. And

1129
01:03:57,480 --> 01:03:59,439
Speaker 1: that journalist was like, this piece is going to real

1130
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:03,240
Speaker 1: rold alert. Yeah. Right. He goes to the Haras Club.

1131
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 1: He gets in a fight with Patti Smith's brother Todd

1132
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:08,280
Speaker 1: and smashes him in the face with a bottle, which

1133
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:11,160
Speaker 1: is a clear violation of his parole. So he gets

1134
01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 1: arrested again. He's put in Riker's Island for seven weeks

1135
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:18,280
Speaker 1: in their detox wing, so he has a forced detox

1136
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:23,160
Speaker 1: and McLaren claims that his mother Anne smuggled heroin in

1137
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 1: for Sid in her vagina, which is nature's pocket. Johnny

1138
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:34,440
Speaker 1: Rotten said Mick Jagger paid for Sid's lawyer and his

1139
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:38,480
Speaker 1: bail at this point, and he really Johnny praised Mick

1140
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:41,640
Speaker 1: for never taking credit for that. Well, because Johnny hated

1141
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:43,880
Speaker 1: the Stones and Mick Jagger in that whole scene so

1142
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 1: much so it was like his like you know what,

1143
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:48,760
Speaker 1: you know what that was a cool thing you did.

1144
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 1: Thanks Johnny, I need your approval. I'm Mick Jagger. That's

1145
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:59,120
Speaker 1: what Mick Jagger sounds like. Thanks Johnny, Thanks Johnny. Mick

1146
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 1: Jagger his speak voice very surprising, very friend from his

1147
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 1: singing point. And Sid told reporters that he had spent

1148
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 1: his time in prison writing new songs and he was

1149
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 1: really anxious for people to hear them. So it seemed

1150
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:14,560
Speaker 1: like he was really on the up. Yeah. But February one,

1151
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 1: the day he left prison, he went home. He was

1152
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:19,800
Speaker 1: picked up by his mom and his girlfriend, Michelle. They

1153
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:23,640
Speaker 1: went to Michelle's apartment. His mom made spaghetti bolon as

1154
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:26,320
Speaker 1: they had a small party, A few friends came over.

1155
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 1: They all got high. Neighbors actually said it was a

1156
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 1: very chill party. They were like, there's nothing complain about.

1157
01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 1: It was very quiet. And his mother had sent their

1158
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 1: friend Peter Gravel to bring them some heroin, which she

1159
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 1: paid for, and he came back with this incredibly pure stuff.

1160
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:47,400
Speaker 1: They said it was pure, which is nearly three times

1161
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:50,640
Speaker 1: stronger than the street stuff in New York City. As

1162
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:54,200
Speaker 1: the party fizzled out, Peter warrened said, you know, don't

1163
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 1: take too much man, this stuff is really fucking strong.

1164
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 1: But Sid did he took way too much and he

1165
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:04,960
Speaker 1: collapsed and Michelle managed to wake him up, but they decided,

1166
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:07,160
Speaker 1: you know, let's not call an ambulance because if we

1167
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 1: do that, he's going to go back to jail and

1168
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:11,680
Speaker 1: that's the last thing he wants. So later that night

1169
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:16,560
Speaker 1: in his bedroom, he injected more, and the next morning

1170
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:20,840
Speaker 1: and found Sid dead. Yeah, pathologists said his tolerance had

1171
01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:24,800
Speaker 1: been weakened from his forced detox and rikers. Yeah, but

1172
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 1: of course, again it is stronger than he's used to

1173
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:29,800
Speaker 1: and he probably felt like, oh, I'm an old hand

1174
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:32,160
Speaker 1: at doing heroin, I can handle it, and but he

1175
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:35,160
Speaker 1: hadn't done it so long. Yeah, and it was stronger,

1176
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:38,040
Speaker 1: so it wasn't only just the amount, it was the

1177
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 1: purity of what he was doing. And so the police

1178
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:43,880
Speaker 1: are again they're not looking for anybody else in connection

1179
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:48,439
Speaker 1: with Nancy's death because who cares. I guess nobody likes

1180
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:51,840
Speaker 1: this bitch anyway, So whatever, h And we got this

1181
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:54,600
Speaker 1: other crazy dude who I mean, he had a knife.

1182
01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:58,040
Speaker 1: That's enough for us. So now that Sid is dead,

1183
01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 1: they closed that case. We're done. Yeah, it was never

1184
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:04,840
Speaker 1: a celebrity death case. To the media and to the police,

1185
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:08,000
Speaker 1: it was just a couple of junkies died. You know,

1186
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 1: a junkie stabbed his girlfriend and then a junkie. Odd

1187
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:14,960
Speaker 1: court sources told Daily News that the case against Sid

1188
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 1: wasn't really very strong even so convictions seemed unlikely. So

1189
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 1: the cops probably just lazy, and we're like, well, well,

1190
01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:24,560
Speaker 1: just it's all good. They're both dead now, so who cares?

1191
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:28,600
Speaker 1: And Anne found a suicide note in Sid's pocket. It

1192
01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:30,960
Speaker 1: was a small scrap of paper that he had written

1193
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:33,840
Speaker 1: on front and back. Yeah, it said we had a

1194
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:36,200
Speaker 1: death packed. I have to keep my half of the bargain.

1195
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:41,440
Speaker 1: Please bury me, Please turn over next to my baby.

1196
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:45,280
Speaker 1: Bury me in a leather jacket, jeans and motorcycle boots. Goodbye,

1197
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:48,640
Speaker 1: and I'm really the most amazing thing about this note

1198
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:50,680
Speaker 1: to me is that he put P t O in

1199
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:53,800
Speaker 1: parentheses at the bottom of this like it's like a

1200
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:57,800
Speaker 1: two by two inch square of RiPPs notebook paper. But

1201
01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:00,959
Speaker 1: he remembered his mL A format and wrote please turn over,

1202
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:04,400
Speaker 1: so that you know, whoever found it wouldn't read one

1203
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:06,960
Speaker 1: side and say we had a death back. I had

1204
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:10,880
Speaker 1: to keep my hap of the bargain, please bury me. Okay,

1205
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:13,680
Speaker 1: I guess I'll marry him. Oh shoot, I never turned

1206
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:16,639
Speaker 1: it over to see the other side. Except it didn't

1207
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:19,040
Speaker 1: matter because they didn't bury him. They cremated him. No,

1208
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:22,520
Speaker 1: she couldn't afford a burial, okay, so he was cremated.

1209
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:25,959
Speaker 1: And did ask Deborah if she could sprinkle Sid's ashes

1210
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:30,559
Speaker 1: on Nancy's grave, but Debra said no. Yeah, He's like,

1211
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:33,679
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it's just too much. But Anne's a rebel,

1212
01:08:34,360 --> 01:08:37,920
Speaker 1: just like her son. So she had the Misfits drummer

1213
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:41,680
Speaker 1: Jerry only drive her to King David Memorial Park and

1214
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 1: did it anyway. Ye. Johnny Rotten felt guilty about Sid's death.

1215
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:47,920
Speaker 1: He said, I'll tell you to this day, I feel

1216
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:50,160
Speaker 1: guilty about Sid. I wish I had told him more

1217
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 1: about what to expect. He just had a brilliant sets

1218
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:56,880
Speaker 1: of humor about everything. He just laugh about everything. And

1219
01:08:57,000 --> 01:08:58,880
Speaker 1: you know, Johnny said that they just turned his death

1220
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:01,800
Speaker 1: into making money. You know, Johnny was always ready to

1221
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 1: criticize anyone for making money off of anyone, but I think,

1222
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 1: you know, especially in this case, he was pretty right.

1223
01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:09,800
Speaker 1: That's pretty fucking twisted the way they did it. And

1224
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:14,880
Speaker 1: he was not happy about it. So who did kill Nancy?

1225
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 1: If not Sid? We can't really be sure it wasn't

1226
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:24,240
Speaker 1: said although almost everyone who was there said there's no way.

1227
01:09:24,360 --> 01:09:26,240
Speaker 1: People who were in the building where like Sid was

1228
01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:30,360
Speaker 1: so fucked up on pills he couldn't have even picked

1229
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:34,040
Speaker 1: up a knife, let alone stabbed someone intentionally with it.

1230
01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:37,160
Speaker 1: Do you think that he would have killed Nancy if

1231
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:39,120
Speaker 1: he hadn't been sucked up? Like I mean, like, do

1232
01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:41,080
Speaker 1: you think that was in him to do? Because I

1233
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 1: know he was physically violent to her, but like I'm

1234
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:46,559
Speaker 1: just wondering, do you think that he could have personally? No?

1235
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:49,599
Speaker 1: I mean, Malcolm McLaren talks about this. He says they

1236
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:53,040
Speaker 1: loved each other so much like earnestly loved each other.

1237
01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:55,479
Speaker 1: He says, there's no way Sid would have killed Nancy

1238
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:58,639
Speaker 1: unless it was a suicide pact. If they did agree

1239
01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:02,000
Speaker 1: to that, then may be. But I mean it's hard

1240
01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:05,360
Speaker 1: to say. Speculation Station if we take drugs out of

1241
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:12,360
Speaker 1: the equation um speculation station drugs and the equation. Wow,

1242
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:15,439
Speaker 1: that's a new school house rock for you, kid. It's

1243
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:23,320
Speaker 1: the Randy Newman Songulation Station flanged in the equation. Ah,

1244
01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:31,360
Speaker 1: let us go on vaccasion to day stab stabs. So,

1245
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:34,599
Speaker 1: um no, I don't think so. I think he would

1246
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:39,559
Speaker 1: have just been a regular abusive boyfriend, just a regular one.

1247
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:41,719
Speaker 1: It's possible that it could have gotten out of control

1248
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:43,760
Speaker 1: and he could have caused more harm than he intended to.

1249
01:10:44,439 --> 01:10:47,080
Speaker 1: But um, I don't think he would have tried to

1250
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:49,080
Speaker 1: kill her. That's sort of where I'm at because I

1251
01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 1: was like, well, I mean, this is a violent guy.

1252
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:53,759
Speaker 1: He beat her up. I know she was also violent,

1253
01:10:54,040 --> 01:10:56,880
Speaker 1: So I'm like, these are two violent people. Like maybe

1254
01:10:57,040 --> 01:10:59,680
Speaker 1: there was a time, you know, in the in the

1255
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:01,920
Speaker 1: Once upon a Time in Hollywood version of this story

1256
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:05,720
Speaker 1: where we tell it, and maybe they could have. But

1257
01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:08,040
Speaker 1: I kind of agree where I'm like, I just don't.

1258
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:11,000
Speaker 1: I don't see it. A lot of people, of course,

1259
01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:14,400
Speaker 1: point to the mysterious Michael who was seen with Nancy's

1260
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:18,000
Speaker 1: money that seems to be at least everyone else's prime suspect.

1261
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:20,760
Speaker 1: On one hand, that seems like an easy suspect. A

1262
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:23,639
Speaker 1: mysterious man who was never seen again did it, well,

1263
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:27,480
Speaker 1: that takes the blame off of literally everyone else. Um,

1264
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:29,800
Speaker 1: but if anyone was going to do it, this guy

1265
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:33,040
Speaker 1: who was barely known and could easily slip away. Sure,

1266
01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:35,599
Speaker 1: why not? And it's like a robbery. He killed her

1267
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 1: in the course of stealing all their cash. The general

1268
01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:40,920
Speaker 1: consensus is that this was a robbery gone wrong no

1269
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:45,960
Speaker 1: matter what happened. Rockets red Glare privately bragged about doing it,

1270
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:48,120
Speaker 1: but his friends say he also just loved to get

1271
01:11:48,120 --> 01:11:50,439
Speaker 1: a rise out of people by telling like elaborate, made

1272
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:52,880
Speaker 1: up stories about things he'd done. So they were kind

1273
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:56,600
Speaker 1: of like, that's just Rocket. Nobody believed it. But apparently

1274
01:11:56,680 --> 01:12:00,439
Speaker 1: this wound that Nancy had, this stab wound was not deep.

1275
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:03,240
Speaker 1: It wasn't a cut that would have killed her if

1276
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:05,840
Speaker 1: she had gotten help in time. Yeah, I mean, like

1277
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:08,160
Speaker 1: the corner said she was stabbed between six and seven

1278
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:10,360
Speaker 1: and died between eight and ten, so she may have

1279
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:15,000
Speaker 1: been just bleeding out for hours without attention. Horrible. Yeah.

1280
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:20,160
Speaker 1: McLaren also said that he believes that Anne deliberately helped

1281
01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:23,200
Speaker 1: sid O d because he said that she knew that

1282
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:25,320
Speaker 1: sid would rather be dead than go back to prison,

1283
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:27,439
Speaker 1: and that she was really trying to help him out there.

1284
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:32,000
Speaker 1: People called them the punk Romeo and Juliet, which I

1285
01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:35,320
Speaker 1: feel like it's a stretch, like they were two people

1286
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:39,439
Speaker 1: who loved each other and died. But the similarities and

1287
01:12:40,040 --> 01:12:42,880
Speaker 1: they were not from opposing factions who were begging them

1288
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 1: not to be together. People wanted them to fucking be

1289
01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:49,559
Speaker 1: together because it kept them away from me. You know, Like, yes, Sid,

1290
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:51,679
Speaker 1: go hang out with Nancy. I can't take you anymore,

1291
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:53,840
Speaker 1: right now? Yeah, why don't you guys go somewhere like

1292
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:58,000
Speaker 1: real far away, right, Not a lot of people want Nancy.

1293
01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:03,120
Speaker 1: Also besides Sid, Right, unlike Juliet who had other suitors, right,

1294
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:09,960
Speaker 1: Nancy did not turn down Paul Rudd astronaut, go hang

1295
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:12,800
Speaker 1: out with Sid. So it's an unsolved mystery. It sure

1296
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:17,519
Speaker 1: is probably unsolved forever now, Paul, Steve, Johnny. They're all

1297
01:13:17,560 --> 01:13:21,679
Speaker 1: still alive today, Deborah, Nancy's mother is alive, although Nancy's

1298
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:25,280
Speaker 1: father died in two thousand. Malcolm McLaren also died in

1299
01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:28,840
Speaker 1: two thousand and ten, and Johnny said, I may not

1300
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:32,759
Speaker 1: have liked the man, but I appreciated his space on Earth.

1301
01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:36,800
Speaker 1: Annoying though he could be. We had a healthy disrespect

1302
01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:39,880
Speaker 1: for each other. That was a little, a little kiwi

1303
01:13:39,960 --> 01:13:47,320
Speaker 1: at the end. There love it mass Mass. I appreciated

1304
01:13:47,400 --> 01:13:51,560
Speaker 1: his spice on Mass. Sorry, I love the expanse and

1305
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:54,759
Speaker 1: I want to sound like Bobby. We love the kill me, God,

1306
01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:58,160
Speaker 1: please don't kill me, not before the final season. I

1307
01:13:58,160 --> 01:14:02,800
Speaker 1: gotta see what happens. At least, let me have this

1308
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:07,160
Speaker 1: one thing. Nancy's sister, Susie is a chef and a

1309
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:10,679
Speaker 1: food stylist for movies, but we don't know much about

1310
01:14:10,720 --> 01:14:15,160
Speaker 1: her brother. He kept a low profile. Yeah, understandably, what

1311
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:17,400
Speaker 1: a traumatic childhood to have with a sister like that.

1312
01:14:17,479 --> 01:14:19,840
Speaker 1: It's like I've been trying to fucking get away from

1313
01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:21,840
Speaker 1: that for a long time since. Please don't bring it up.

1314
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:24,719
Speaker 1: Susie's doing all right though, Good job Susie and Ann.

1315
01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:29,639
Speaker 1: Sid's mother died of a heroin overdose in at sixty

1316
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:33,479
Speaker 1: three years old. Still a party in. Yeah, there are

1317
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:37,400
Speaker 1: senior drug addicts. Absolutely, what can we say? Yea, there

1318
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:42,599
Speaker 1: is so much more to this story. This is probably

1319
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:45,920
Speaker 1: a long running episode as it is, because just talking

1320
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:50,280
Speaker 1: about Sid and Nancy together is a pretty and ted story.

1321
01:14:50,320 --> 01:14:52,559
Speaker 1: But if you go back and look at Nancy's childhood

1322
01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:54,720
Speaker 1: growing up, if you look at the whole history of

1323
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:56,840
Speaker 1: the sex pistols, of what was going on with them,

1324
01:14:56,920 --> 01:14:59,120
Speaker 1: and even the aftermath, there's a lot more to talk

1325
01:14:59,160 --> 01:15:03,040
Speaker 1: about um. But I hope that you all appreciated this story,

1326
01:15:03,160 --> 01:15:06,599
Speaker 1: at least of the Sid Nancy romance, because it's unlike

1327
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:10,080
Speaker 1: almost anything else, you know what, It's most unlike Romeo

1328
01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:17,519
Speaker 1: and Julie. Yeah, it's funny how we you know, went

1329
01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:20,719
Speaker 1: through this and we were like, man, they were only

1330
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:23,000
Speaker 1: alive for a very short period of time. They were

1331
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:26,000
Speaker 1: only together for a very short period of time, but

1332
01:15:26,040 --> 01:15:31,120
Speaker 1: they filled that time with a lot, a lot, So

1333
01:15:31,160 --> 01:15:32,479
Speaker 1: we were kind of like, Wow, it's gonna take a

1334
01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:34,439
Speaker 1: long time to talk about the very short time they

1335
01:15:34,439 --> 01:15:37,800
Speaker 1: were together. Unusual. But I'm not even sure we really

1336
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:40,400
Speaker 1: got across just how fucked up and violent these two

1337
01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:43,040
Speaker 1: people were. I feel like they're the kind of people

1338
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:45,280
Speaker 1: who if I was around them, I would just count

1339
01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:48,439
Speaker 1: My entire thought process would be dedicated to how do

1340
01:15:48,479 --> 01:15:50,680
Speaker 1: I get away from this situation? Yes, how do I

1341
01:15:50,720 --> 01:15:53,240
Speaker 1: get out of here? I'm gonna irish good by this party,

1342
01:15:53,880 --> 01:15:58,200
Speaker 1: or you know, I'm going to move to the West Coast, Like,

1343
01:15:58,720 --> 01:16:00,600
Speaker 1: give me away from these people as far away as

1344
01:16:00,640 --> 01:16:03,160
Speaker 1: you can. Oh, I'm hanging out with these people. I've

1345
01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:07,160
Speaker 1: done something terribly wrong. I have made a terrible direct

1346
01:16:07,320 --> 01:16:09,160
Speaker 1: gone in the wrong direction. I need to get out

1347
01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:13,080
Speaker 1: of here, so thanks for tuning in for sitting Nancy. Yeah,

1348
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:15,280
Speaker 1: let us know what you thought. As always, we love

1349
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:18,559
Speaker 1: hearing from you guys. It's always so great too. You

1350
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:21,240
Speaker 1: know we're in theater. Were used to applause after these things,

1351
01:16:21,400 --> 01:16:23,880
Speaker 1: but no one is in the bathroom to clap for us,

1352
01:16:24,120 --> 01:16:28,960
Speaker 1: and the dog never does it rude, So anyway, whether

1353
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:31,240
Speaker 1: you're booing or clapping, please let us know. We'd love

1354
01:16:31,280 --> 01:16:34,720
Speaker 1: to hear your feedback. Our email address is Romance at

1355
01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:37,479
Speaker 1: iHeart media dot com, and you can get us on

1356
01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:40,040
Speaker 1: social media of course. I'm at Oh Great, It's Eli

1357
01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:43,400
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram. I'm at Dianamite Boom on Twitter

1358
01:16:43,400 --> 01:16:46,439
Speaker 1: and Instagram. You can find a show at Rick Romance

1359
01:16:46,960 --> 01:16:49,639
Speaker 1: on both those platforms as well as Thanks for tuning

1360
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:53,559
Speaker 1: in and we will catch him the next work. So long, friends,

1361
01:16:53,640 --> 01:16:58,280
Speaker 1: it's time to go. Thanks for listening to show. Rip

1362
01:16:58,360 --> 01:17:01,680
Speaker 1: your shirt and you'll let patch and listen to us

1363
01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:08,880
Speaker 1: all rediculous from ha ha ha ever feel like your

1364
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:10,000
Speaker 1: plastic bag