Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio podcast.
Speaker 2: All right, so this week's Thursday Therapy, We've got Annie
Speaker 2: sarnblad On. She is a human light detector, so she
Speaker 2: is an expert in reading facial expressions as well as
Speaker 2: a Steem strategic advisor. Who I'm so excited, I am
Speaker 2: so nervous. Do you believe in light detectors?
Speaker 3: Yep?
Speaker 1: Do you Nope?
Speaker 2: Actually, can I change my answer because I think I
Speaker 2: remember a story? No, no, no, listen, I've known.
Speaker 3: Why are you pointing at me?
Speaker 2: I've known two people that passed the lie detector test personally,
Speaker 2: know them that both lied. So I just don't know
Speaker 2: if I try personal, pretty personal, but I will say this,
Speaker 2: Kat is the most buttoned up, non commenting person today.
Speaker 2: It's cracking me up. But we had just a view
Speaker 2: of just her face with this entire time. Let me
Speaker 2: just say this, as Catherine's got my gruntee little son
Speaker 2: over there, I think I would trust the facial expressions
Speaker 2: over the other ones. So that's why I'm really interested
Speaker 2: to talk to her. Good point because it's actually easy
Speaker 2: to how do I say this? You can pass a
Speaker 2: lie detected chest by the breathing, so if they ask you,
Speaker 2: it's taken your breath. So it's like if you go
Speaker 2: if you know, yeah, like is your name Kristen, Yes,
Speaker 2: if you're to ask it, so you have to control
Speaker 2: your breathing for all the answers. Little Jana Panther.
Speaker 1: One people to pass a detector does and this is
Speaker 1: why they're not admissible in court.
Speaker 2: But I think with facials, I again I would want
Speaker 2: to know. That's why I'm so excited talk to her
Speaker 2: because I'm like, I would believe that over anything else,
Speaker 2: because there there's got to be a look or something.
Speaker 2: There is something like a look to the left or something. Well,
Speaker 2: let's get her on. And you're the actress, so this
Speaker 2: is going to be a real test, a testimony to
Speaker 2: your craft. And we got to truth and a lie
Speaker 2: and we're going to see if she can decode it.
Speaker 2: And one of mine is a speculation that you guys
Speaker 2: might not know, okay, what there might be something you
Speaker 2: don't know? Cat cat considering it. I find out today.
Speaker 2: So we'll see.
Speaker 1: Annie Annie hie.
Speaker 4: Nice to see you all.
Speaker 3: Nice to see.
Speaker 2: What is your last name? I know your last name,
Speaker 2: but what is the origin.
Speaker 4: It's in English.
Speaker 2: Okay, I totally did say that wrong. Then yeah, sartn
Speaker 2: blood okay, and then what is it?
Speaker 4: What is that if you want to say in Swedish?
Speaker 3: It's Swedish? Okay, all right, I love that.
Speaker 1: Are you?
Speaker 3: Did you grow up there or did you grow up here?
Speaker 4: It's my ex husband's name, but my maiden name is
Speaker 4: actually Norwegian Solberg. Okay, it's so bye. So everybody. When
Speaker 4: I moved to Sweden as a sixteen year old exchange student,
Speaker 4: that was my version of running away from home. Everybody
Speaker 4: thought I was Swedish. Sod help learn the language quickly
Speaker 4: because people would just talk to me in Swedish.
Speaker 2: And they see your ex husband because you saw a
Speaker 2: facial expression that you didn't like.
Speaker 4: No, No, Unfortunately, I just made bad choices.
Speaker 3: Wow, we've all been there.
Speaker 4: He's a nice person. It wasn't a good fit and
Speaker 4: I had a lot of traum in my childhood, so
Speaker 4: I chose something that felt very safe and predictable.
Speaker 2: And then I don't know if anybody has wrapped up
Speaker 2: my life in a sentence quite as fast as you
Speaker 2: just did. But so jinks, Annie, Yeah, buy me a coke,
Speaker 2: that's right. But I will say this, So I love
Speaker 2: that you went straight too. He's a good person. You
Speaker 2: had your stuff, Like, I love that aspect of it.
Speaker 3: You're not trying to be Yeah.
Speaker 4: He's because I've had I've dated other people that aren't
Speaker 4: good people.
Speaker 2: But difference also jinks. Okay, Annie, do you just want
Speaker 2: to come sit down with us because.
Speaker 4: I feel I really would like to, Like, I feel
Speaker 4: like I just snuggle right there in the middle of
Speaker 4: the sofa.
Speaker 2: Who is this right now? He's three and a half
Speaker 2: weeks old? So this is my son Jack Geez. I
Speaker 2: always collim Jason Roman. I either call him the dog.
Speaker 1: Or welcome to having three children, whichever kids you were Roman.
Speaker 4: Yep, I've got three too, and I had I had
Speaker 4: mine in just over three and a half years, so
Speaker 4: I still get them confused.
Speaker 3: So that's a thing.
Speaker 1: That's the thing all day every day.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I do it probably every day.
Speaker 2: Because I started to think, I'm like, maybe I should
Speaker 2: change his name because I can't I keep them.
Speaker 4: It's just fine, You're just in like it's I mean,
Speaker 4: hormones and all the things.
Speaker 3: Sure that was weird?
Speaker 2: Is I have all l's. I have three kids, they're
Speaker 2: all l's. And I don't confuse them, but I confuse
Speaker 2: the boy like my husband and my son's name.
Speaker 1: I was just about to say that I do that
Speaker 1: Nick and Caiden are the same person.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well sometimes I get him mixed up with the
Speaker 4: dog too, Like that's not popular.
Speaker 2: Sometimes the behaviors are somewhat similar, and it's warranted if
Speaker 2: I'm honest. Between the eighty five year old. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: So I have a question. We started briefly to chatted
Speaker 2: about this. Do you believe it that lie detectors, the
Speaker 2: ones that go on your chest, are those one hundred
Speaker 2: percent accurate?
Speaker 4: I actually have no idea. It's a great question, but
Speaker 4: those are dealing with like heart rate and gosha. I
Speaker 4: don't even really know how to answer that. It's not
Speaker 4: something that's particularly interesting to me because the machinery detects
Speaker 4: changes and breathing and heart rate and all these like
Speaker 4: physiological reactions, and so a really good spy can create
Speaker 4: an alternative reality, just like I mean, you know about this.
Speaker 4: You're an actress, so like when you're in that scene,
Speaker 4: you're living it, right if you're doing it, well, you're
Speaker 4: there emotionally, yeah, and you're in it, and so really
Speaker 4: good spy creates two parallel lines of thought, and it
Speaker 4: can put themselves into like the emotional the like fantasy life,
Speaker 4: so like did you did you murder her? And like
Speaker 4: in Vegas and the like. If you can convince yourself
Speaker 4: that I was on a beach in Akapolco, then you
Speaker 4: were on a beach in a c Polco and you
Speaker 4: could in theory trump the machine.
Speaker 3: Right because yeah, okay, that makes yes.
Speaker 4: That expressions that actually precede the thought process.
Speaker 2: So yeah, what's that, Like, what's the first micro expression
Speaker 2: that you would go That person is lying?
Speaker 4: So I'm looking for the disconnect. So the facial expression
Speaker 4: and the words don't match. So somebody, I mean, it's
Speaker 4: as simple as somebody saying I did not do that
Speaker 4: while they're nodding like that's our body leaking and that's
Speaker 4: the knot isn't really a micro expression, and that's and
Speaker 4: the knot is also not universal. It depends. That's Western society.
Speaker 4: But if I say, I'm so happy to be on
Speaker 4: your podcast and I'm showing the growl, I'm showing the
Speaker 4: no face, that the facial expression of disgust, there's something
Speaker 4: off there. I'm not actually feeling what I'm saying that
Speaker 4: I'm feeling.
Speaker 2: Okay, I am so nervous right now and I think
Speaker 2: it I am the world's worst liar. Like I have
Speaker 2: sweaty hands. I feel like I am being busted right
Speaker 2: now and there's literally nothing. I've done nothing. But do
Speaker 2: you know what's so funny? Is I really wish she
Speaker 2: would say? And that's usually the people that lie once
Speaker 2: say that like I would never do that.
Speaker 3: I would.
Speaker 2: I'm just no, Like, I'm just right. I'm a chronic
Speaker 2: overs like I'm a chronic oversharer, so like I won't
Speaker 2: I can't even tell you that I had something that
Speaker 2: I didn't have for lunch.
Speaker 3: No manny talk to us about that.
Speaker 4: Everybody wants to say to me. They're like, oh, you
Speaker 4: must be awesome and poker, and I'm like no. The
Speaker 4: reason that I'm obsessed with this has to do with
Speaker 4: childhood that had a fair amount of trauma in it,
Speaker 4: and the people that would that we're supposed to be trustworthy,
Speaker 4: that lied to me all the time, and my obsession
Speaker 4: with figuring out who I could rely on and who
Speaker 4: was who was safe and who was trustworthy. And so
Speaker 4: I'm a terrible liar. I really don't like lying, and
Speaker 4: I don't like it when people lie to me. I mean,
Speaker 4: the obsession comes from a need to figure out who
Speaker 4: is it's less. My best friend always says, you're not
Speaker 4: a lie detector, You're a truth detector. Like you don't
Speaker 4: really care who lies to you. You want to figure
Speaker 4: out who tells you the truth.
Speaker 2: So has this been since childhood that you've had this
Speaker 2: passion and then does it go into like learning the
Speaker 2: traits professionally all of the thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So that the childhood piece is my why, you know,
Speaker 4: why I got into it and why it was such
Speaker 4: an obsession with me. And then the fact that I
Speaker 4: was gaslightd so much about what I saw and what
Speaker 4: I lived through, you know, that didn't happen a week
Speaker 4: later that was no longer true, and I was told
Speaker 4: to you know, family loyalty was very, very you know,
Speaker 4: it was a big focus, and so I really ran
Speaker 4: away and got away as early as I could. I
Speaker 4: was fourteen years old when I started planning. You know,
Speaker 4: I figured out that you could be an exchange student,
Speaker 4: that you could basically go and live with another family,
Speaker 4: and so that became my obsession, and I how I
Speaker 4: got out and I was gone. I mean, it came
Speaker 4: back for vacations and that kind of thing, but I
Speaker 4: was It was almost twenty five years that I was
Speaker 4: outside of the US, and I've lived in nine different countries.
Speaker 4: So I spent much of my time learning languages. I
Speaker 4: have a master's in anthropology, and I spent like this focus.
Speaker 4: I was obsessed with learning languages through immersion. So and
Speaker 4: I wasn't that great learning languages. So I literally have
Speaker 4: spent years in my life not understanding what people are saying.
Speaker 4: And then I got certified in what's called facial action
Speaker 4: coding and learned to numerically code the different muscle combinations
Speaker 4: in human expression. But I'm not that good at that
Speaker 4: advanced mathematical coding, so I simplified the entire field to
Speaker 4: be able to teach my kids.
Speaker 1: Well, it's so interesting. So I grew up in a
Speaker 1: similar situation and was basically taught to lie my whole
Speaker 1: childhood and then to lie like told to lie, tell
Speaker 1: your grandparents this, tell so and so.
Speaker 2: This, so.
Speaker 1: Then I would have a natural as I got older,
Speaker 1: in natural inkland the smallest thing to just lie. And
Speaker 1: then I got to a point where I'm like, hated
Speaker 1: that is not cat by the way, but I hated lying.
Speaker 1: So it's still a very I get very hurt, very
Speaker 1: easily if I know someone's lying, and it is a
Speaker 1: huge I take it.
Speaker 2: So personal too. And I'm going through a phase of
Speaker 2: my son right now. He's five, and he is the
Speaker 2: sweetest liar, and it's like a I can tell, like
Speaker 2: I don't want to be mean about it, but I
Speaker 2: can feel it hit somewhere in my body where I'm like,
Speaker 2: you could be a million things in life, but don't
Speaker 2: ever be a liar to me.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, we carry our own troublem And isn't
Speaker 4: that so interesting with children that they hold this mirror
Speaker 4: up to us where we not only have to figure
Speaker 4: out what we want to do differently. I mean, you know,
Speaker 4: even when you grow up in an ideal situation at home,
Speaker 4: you want to figure out, like what what do I
Speaker 4: want to do differently and what do I want to
Speaker 4: do the same as my parents, and they really reflect back.
Speaker 4: But for me, one of the hardest things is figuring
Speaker 4: out how to kind of meet it in the middle
Speaker 4: and not just respond from my trauma all the time,
Speaker 4: but grow through it and heal and say that like, Okay,
Speaker 4: a five year old lie is pretty normal and you
Speaker 4: can write and you don't want to shame them, but
Speaker 4: you also want to talk about how that makes you
Speaker 4: feel without bringing all the druma. I mean I remember
Speaker 4: my oldest looking at me at one point and saying,
Speaker 4: not everything has to be a life lessen mom.
Speaker 2: That's kind of how I feel though, Like I feel
Speaker 2: like I'm I feel like I'm doing that. Like I'm like,
Speaker 2: if it starts now, then he's gonna spiral and he's
Speaker 2: gonna you know, and I'm like, really, he's just five
Speaker 2: and he's just got a big imagination.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but you should still tell him what you're feeling
Speaker 4: and you know, but in age appropriate words.
Speaker 2: But or maybe we just FaceTime miss Annie and she
Speaker 2: can tell me what's really like.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 3: Have you dealt with that too, with the kid aspect.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean five is a very normal age for
Speaker 1: them to start doing that. We just have, like I
Speaker 1: have to find ways with my older kids to be like,
Speaker 1: as long as you tell me the truth, as long
Speaker 1: as you're honest with me, we can deal with anything.
Speaker 3: Like what we have.
Speaker 1: We just very much deal with that. But like I
Speaker 1: haven't have a hard time in my marriage because I'm like,
Speaker 1: you lied, and he'll be like I said, it was blue,
Speaker 1: not green. I mean, it'll be the smallest thing, and
Speaker 1: he's like, you've got to let that go, like and
Speaker 1: it can get hard. So I'm trying to be better
Speaker 1: about it because it's not It's also not that black
Speaker 1: and white to me. It's like a Lia's Eliza, lie,
Speaker 1: you omitted this and you lied to me, you know,
Speaker 1: And so I have to I have to bring myself
Speaker 1: back from that.
Speaker 3: And I as childhood trauma on the couch.
Speaker 1: And not great in these days.
Speaker 4: It's really everybody that has childhood trauma exactly.
Speaker 2: I think it's just because we're all talking about it finally.
Speaker 1: But I also don't think I would want to be
Speaker 1: able to do what she can do.
Speaker 2: Is there error in what you do as well? Like
Speaker 2: when you so for example, like my fiance is the
Speaker 2: most loving, i mean sweet human being, but he's he's
Speaker 2: more he's he's Scottish, he's a little bit more harsher
Speaker 2: on his expressions. He's more like, I know he loves me.
Speaker 2: But I think when maybe some people that might see
Speaker 2: something and be like, oh well, he's not doesn't look
Speaker 2: very happy or something, and I'm like, he's right. So
Speaker 2: that that piece, I'm like, well, you don't also know
Speaker 2: you know X, Y and Z.
Speaker 3: So I'm just curious.
Speaker 2: Is there a piece of it where it's like it's
Speaker 2: not all about just the facial I guess.
Speaker 4: Okay, So how can I have a dirty mouth? Like
Speaker 4: how sure? Yeah, okay. So I can always tell the emotion.
Speaker 4: I can tell what somebody is feeling clear as day.
Speaker 4: I cannot tell what they are thinking. I can't tell
Speaker 4: the why. But the micro expressions when you get to
Speaker 4: the level that I'm at, and my kids have been
Speaker 4: trained by me, so we never missed the micro expression.
Speaker 3: And that's the nod the right.
Speaker 4: So so like this is the full facial expression of disgust.
Speaker 3: So that yeah, she's kind of like clenching her teeth
Speaker 3: a little bit.
Speaker 4: We're actually trained out of it as as grown ups,
Speaker 4: and the micro expression that leaks that, you know, we're
Speaker 4: trained out of these micro expressions by or the macro expressions,
Speaker 4: the long, big facial expressions out from our parents because
Speaker 4: it's not socially acceptable to be like, oh, you want
Speaker 4: me to go over to your house? Oh, right. We
Speaker 4: you know we can't, we can't go through life in
Speaker 4: a socially acceptable way. But the micro expressions precede the
Speaker 4: thought process and they leak all day long. So it's like, oh,
Speaker 4: you want me to do this deal with you. That
Speaker 4: twitch is always there, so I can see the exact
Speaker 4: moment and the exact feelings, sometimes even before the person
Speaker 4: feeling it has time to process their emotions. However, I
Speaker 4: don't know why, Like if I ask you to meet
Speaker 4: me for lunch next week and you showed disgust, which
Speaker 4: I call the no face, that little twitch. I don't
Speaker 4: know if it's because you're busy. I don't know if
Speaker 4: it's because you don't like me. I don't know if
Speaker 4: it's because you have, like, you know, some visitor, or
Speaker 4: because you really you wanted to read my book before
Speaker 4: you continued working with me, and you hadn't had a chance.
Speaker 4: I mean, there's all these scenarios. So I when I
Speaker 4: speak frankly, I say, it's as universal as a man
Speaker 4: with an erection. If you set a naked man with
Speaker 4: an erection, he is aroused. I don't know if he's
Speaker 4: thinking about me.
Speaker 2: But I know that's a different podcast altogether.
Speaker 4: Right, that's a different podcast. But if he's standing there
Speaker 4: going like I'm not aroused, you're going, well, yes you are,
Speaker 4: because there's a change in blood flow and muscle movement
Speaker 4: in response to that arousal.
Speaker 2: Will my bowtox throw you off?
Speaker 4: On my and the level that I work with, because
Speaker 4: it's almost, like I explain it, like if you do
Speaker 4: a five hundred puzzle piece puzzle and it's sailboats, and
Speaker 4: then you take out a bunch of the puzzle pieces,
Speaker 4: I can still see it's just it's still boats. So
Speaker 4: that's sort of a simplified way of saying with every expression,
Speaker 4: there's a top piece and a bottom piece. And so,
Speaker 4: for example, a genuine smile, what happens has nothing to
Speaker 4: do with the mouth. If we're genuinely feeling joy, our
Speaker 4: cheeks pop up and that makes this skin right here
Speaker 4: under our eyes bold it out, and we get these
Speaker 4: little smile bags. So if I'm if I'm masked, you
Speaker 4: can still see that regardless if you see my mouth
Speaker 4: or not.
Speaker 2: I am so fascinated by you. So could we do
Speaker 2: Can we do a little game before we talk about
Speaker 2: your book?
Speaker 4: Sure?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 2: Can we do two truths and can we do two
Speaker 2: truths and a lie?
Speaker 4: Sure, it might go first. It might be this is
Speaker 4: a little tricky because people get so joyful about lying
Speaker 4: and situations.
Speaker 2: I am not. You're not joyful, and I want you
Speaker 2: to go first.
Speaker 4: So shame. But you're gonna show like a little bit
Speaker 4: of delight. So okay, we go, let's try it.
Speaker 2: Okay, don't you go first? No, you go first? No,
Speaker 2: Catherine got and I vote?
Speaker 4: Thank you?
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay, okay, let me get my questions. Okay,
Speaker 2: So two truths and a lie? Ready, and I would
Speaker 2: have another kid I got wrongfully sued last year.
Speaker 3: Alan and I are already married.
Speaker 4: So that was dead panned. But you showed, you showed
Speaker 4: mirth that thought we're already married.
Speaker 3: What does mirth mean?
Speaker 4: It just means like tricky business.
Speaker 2: That should actually be the name of this podcast, dream business.
Speaker 4: So I don't know because you said it's so fast,
Speaker 4: and then you were like, hey.
Speaker 1: If you're already married, I'm gonna lose my mind.
Speaker 2: I mean, I do have an extra band on my
Speaker 2: hand that no one's asked about. Can you say I
Speaker 2: don't know which one? Sure, I'll say him again. I
Speaker 2: would have another kid, I got wrongfully sued last year.
Speaker 2: Alan and I are already married an actress.
Speaker 4: So the wrongfully sued last year, you showed a little disgust.
Speaker 4: So I'm guessing that you were wrongfully sued.
Speaker 1: Catherine, Well, I know you were wrongfully so say true true,
Speaker 1: Yeah the other two I'm questioning myself over here when
Speaker 1: I'm worried about the answer on both.
Speaker 4: It's fun, like it is a fun game. The really
Speaker 4: interesting thing for me is that when people are in
Speaker 4: a high stake situation, because they'll often show shame. And
Speaker 4: so what I look for in somebody exhibiting shines of
Speaker 4: being a sociopath, for example, is whether or not they
Speaker 4: show shame when they're lying, and whether or not they
Speaker 4: show empathy when someone else gets hurt. We should pucker
Speaker 4: our chin. That's a crucial piece of empathy. So if
Speaker 4: you're telling you about something that's really hard, like if
Speaker 4: you go into detail about being wrongfully sued, I'm gonna
Speaker 4: pucker my chin because that's not fair. I'm feeling your
Speaker 4: pain with you. So if somebody doesn't ever show that,
Speaker 4: and you're supposed to be emotionally attached, so like if
Speaker 4: you're dating somebody and you're trying to figure out, Okay,
Speaker 4: I know this guy's attracted to me, but does he
Speaker 4: actually care about my feelings? You know, whenever you talk
Speaker 4: about something that's emotionally, physically, or financially difficult for you,
Speaker 4: he should be puckering and mirroring that chin. That's basically
Speaker 4: saying I'm feeling this feeling with you.
Speaker 2: And like, if you were to ask a partner are
Speaker 2: you cheating on me? What would be their face of lie?
Speaker 2: I mean, this is why we're best friend.
Speaker 4: But so I do get this question sometimes. Yeah, this
Speaker 4: is so if he says no, one nods. That's a
Speaker 4: problem anytime somebody says again, we're talking about the US, Canada, Mexico,
Speaker 4: Western Europe. Like if you get over to Sri Lanka
Speaker 4: and India, there's different head movements. So that is a
Speaker 4: cultural thing. But in our culture. I grew up in
Speaker 4: the US too, this means yes and this means no.
Speaker 2: So he's like, we say that again. This so shaking
Speaker 2: your head means shaking your head.
Speaker 4: No means so I've never done that, and absolutely I'll
Speaker 4: be there for you. That matches, right, But if you're
Speaker 4: saying I'm never I would never cheat on you. That's
Speaker 4: a problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that made me feel weird when you did that.
Speaker 4: Actually it feels itchy, right. You always trust your gut,
Speaker 4: even if you can't dissect it or you don't know
Speaker 4: the science behind it. There's a reason that our gut
Speaker 4: is telling us. And so what I'm trying to do
Speaker 4: is help women put the words, put the science on
Speaker 4: why their gut is telling them certain things.
Speaker 2: So then what else with the head nod with the
Speaker 2: the cheating question.
Speaker 4: So my son came to me and said to me,
Speaker 4: he's eighteen and he was a few months ago and
Speaker 4: he said maybe. It was last year he said, I
Speaker 4: want to go out on Saturday night? Can I go
Speaker 4: out to this party? And I was like maybe? And
Speaker 4: he goes, thanks, because all my kids are trained, and
Speaker 4: I go I said maybe, and he goes yeah. But
Speaker 4: when you say maybe, and you know that's always you're
Speaker 4: always end up saying yes because you're thinking yes. And
Speaker 4: when you say maybe and you shake your head, that
Speaker 4: means you're not You're gonna say no. You always say
Speaker 4: no when you shake your head.
Speaker 2: So have you outsmarted yourself raising these little idea? I
Speaker 2: know I'm kind of feeling it for you. I'm glad
Speaker 2: there's more of you in the world. But then I'm
Speaker 2: also like, oh, kind of sucks to be the mom.
Speaker 4: K of when your kids can see you're attracted to
Speaker 4: somebody because your pupils dilate. That sucks. You're like, oh,
Speaker 4: you think he's hot.
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, no, awkward when it's like mister Smith
Speaker 2: and math teacher.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so wait, have we figured out you're lying yet?
Speaker 3: It's very important I give one truth in one lie.
Speaker 1: No, I want to know. I want to know.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry.
Speaker 4: No, I'm not doing that well.
Speaker 2: I just was thinking. I get a lot of comments
Speaker 2: on this podcast. They'll post a little bit of the
Speaker 2: of like the video of this podcast sometimes in to
Speaker 2: tease the episode, and people write to me all the
Speaker 2: time they're like, we wish we had a full video
Speaker 2: of your expressions because I feel like I'm not good
Speaker 2: at hiding it. And then I feel like, sometimes I
Speaker 2: look at me, it looks like I'm not having any fun,
Speaker 2: but I'm so always.
Speaker 1: My face always looks like I'm mad.
Speaker 4: But okay, so that is that like when we furrow
Speaker 4: our brow. So even if you've got botox and you
Speaker 4: think that that actually impedes these muscles from ferr and
Speaker 4: these are thinking muscles, are concentrating muscles, and we like
Speaker 4: tend to bring this all down. And it's almost like
Speaker 4: kick starts the process of thinking of like problem solving,
Speaker 4: and there's a piece of problem solving both in problem
Speaker 4: solving and in anger. But people mistakenly think this sort
Speaker 4: of stern look is necessary necessarily anger, and it's only
Speaker 4: anger if the mouth is tight.
Speaker 1: And that's what I feel like I am on here.
Speaker 1: It's usually when I'm listening and I really thinking about
Speaker 1: what you're saying. I look miserable, but I'm truly thinking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I look like I have reasting beef.
Speaker 1: And Janna's like, why are you looking at me like that?
Speaker 4: Are we good?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 4: It doesn't look friendly because our brains processed as part
Speaker 4: of anger. And that's correct, and it's the part of anger.
Speaker 4: But anger is always going to have like whether the
Speaker 4: mouth is shut or open, it's always it clenches everything,
Speaker 4: That's what it's like. It clenches our shoulders or clenches
Speaker 4: our fists so that we are preparing to fight.
Speaker 2: I think there's a good piece of what you just
Speaker 2: said too about it's yes, the expression like if you
Speaker 2: were to ask someone okay, have you cheated or or
Speaker 2: did you cheat on me? Your your your gut is
Speaker 2: also asking that question too, right, So I think there's
Speaker 2: such a good piece with it. Yeah, exactly, like even
Speaker 2: having that conversation, even asking that's a huge, like you said,
Speaker 2: huge problem. So yeah, I think that's the first thing
Speaker 2: and going okay, if you're asking that, right, you're is
Speaker 2: telling you something that's probably not.
Speaker 1: Good, probably not a good sign.
Speaker 4: If you have to ask, I would totally I would
Speaker 4: totally agree. And so I'm always looking at whether or
Speaker 4: not the facial expressions match the words. So somebody who
Speaker 4: says I'm really happy for you, that's a problem showing disgusting,
Speaker 4: that's a problem. You know I got that, I got
Speaker 4: that great promotion, or I just had a baby. You know,
Speaker 4: people should be like, you know, yay, congratulations. They should
Speaker 4: be lifting up their cheeks. That's joy. Their body language
Speaker 4: and everything should be aligned. If something feels off, it's
Speaker 4: because it's your primitive brain processing that something's wrong. Those
Speaker 4: are your survival skills kicking in.
Speaker 2: We have a girl's night coming up, and it's gonna
Speaker 2: be funny that there's three of us pseudo trained. But
Speaker 2: also you're a great actress, as we saw in at
Speaker 2: my fortieth birthday party. So when I'm being funny, not
Speaker 2: when I'm being serious, one truth, one lie, one truth,
Speaker 2: one lie. Yep, I probably have the most botox of
Speaker 2: anyone on this couch. So this is the ultimate test. Annie. Okay,
Speaker 2: I've ridden a camel. Yeah, I've been strapped to a
Speaker 2: semi going fifty five miles an hour. I kind of
Speaker 2: got to say the truth is the fifty five miles
Speaker 2: an hour. I'm like, oh my god, that's because that's
Speaker 2: so crazy.
Speaker 4: I cannot tell. I literally can't tell.
Speaker 2: Is this when I give a shout out to my
Speaker 2: injector or because or is it that I've put myself
Speaker 2: in two places in my brain?
Speaker 4: I don't know. I mean, i'd like, I literally just
Speaker 4: I can't tell.
Speaker 2: I've never ridden a camel.
Speaker 1: I was saying, you're strapped to a on the show, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: My husband had to help me with this, which makes
Speaker 2: me a little nervous actually, because I'm I've always sucked
Speaker 2: notoriously at two truths and a why even in school
Speaker 2: and everything, Because I just I don't know why there's
Speaker 2: something like weird in my brain that happens that anyways, it's.
Speaker 4: A weird game. And what I usually get people will
Speaker 4: do this to me at cocktail parties are at it
Speaker 4: and they'll be like, Okay, I'm gonna like it.
Speaker 3: I'm they show to light.
Speaker 4: Which is what we call that facial expression of like
Speaker 4: of trickery, like I'm going to get you on. But
Speaker 4: now it's a game, and that's what's usually off. What
Speaker 4: was kind of interesting and you say both of those
Speaker 4: things is you just kind of deadpanned the straight up,
Speaker 4: like like just send them boats straight out without much emotion.
Speaker 4: But that when you said I've never ridden a camel,
Speaker 4: you tucked your you touched one corner of your lips
Speaker 4: into the into the cheek, and that's what we call
Speaker 4: a knowing smile. So that's like, I know, I know
Speaker 4: about this.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So you have a book out that's called Diary of
Speaker 2: a Human Light Detector Facial Expressions and Love, Lust and Lies.
Speaker 2: What is the biggest takeaway that you that will help
Speaker 2: people that read this book? And then what your biggest like,
Speaker 2: what was your favorite chapter in it?
Speaker 3: So we can promote the book.
Speaker 4: So the biggest takeaway is that these are things that
Speaker 4: we kind of sort of already know. The pieces that
Speaker 4: I'm teaching for a lot of us women. When I
Speaker 4: hit my audience right, people are reading the pieces about
Speaker 4: my life and then I'm dissecting them and teaching the
Speaker 4: facial expressions using my life's stories. And when I'm hitting
Speaker 4: my audience right, they're they're looking at these they're reading this,
Speaker 4: They're going, yes, that's true, and I know this facial
Speaker 4: expression and I know Barack Obama always makes the facial
Speaker 4: expression of suppression.
Speaker 3: I would love to see you in politics.
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, there's that would be a whole other podcast.
Speaker 3: But there's certain peace to thy coming, right.
Speaker 4: That's the people that certain people make and when we
Speaker 4: when I break it down and I show it, or
Speaker 4: that Mona Lisa smile of kind of like yeah, that
Speaker 4: half one lopside and smile like I know about that,
Speaker 4: that sort of secret I know something you don't know.
Speaker 4: Or the dilation of the pupil, which which is so
Speaker 4: useful in love and dating to see if somebody's really
Speaker 4: feeling aroused in the moment. They're people's swell during the
Speaker 4: conversation and you're like, oh, my god, I have this
Speaker 4: person in the palm of my hands. They're really interested,
Speaker 4: they want me right now. Those pieces are so juicy
Speaker 4: and so interesting, and I think for a lot of women,
Speaker 4: I'm putting words on things that they intuitively have always
Speaker 4: known because I'm describing the universal language of our species,
Speaker 4: which is biologically hardwired into us. And I think they're men.
Speaker 4: I mean, I have male friends that I work with
Speaker 4: that I really enjoy intellectually, and they've said I can't
Speaker 4: get through ten pages, like there's too many feelings.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, I'm so excited. I'm really excited. I'm just
Speaker 2: going to leave it on the nightstand. I think it
Speaker 2: speaks for itself.
Speaker 4: I like peaks about love and lust. That's my favorite.
Speaker 4: Those pieces. I think I will endlessly be interested in
Speaker 4: knowing if someone that I have strong feelings for me
Speaker 4: is one attracted to me too emotionally attached to me?
Speaker 4: Does he want me? And does he love me? I
Speaker 4: think are such universal questions.
Speaker 2: Yes, and that's an ad to cart for everyone. So
Speaker 2: thank you any so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 2: Would love to have you back on. You're so sweet.
Speaker 4: Thank you nice Kat.
Speaker 2: We didn't get to you, but we're also your truth
Speaker 2: and I just don't know. We have to lie.
Speaker 1: I need to know if you're having another baby or
Speaker 1: you're married. This is so important.
Speaker 3: I can guess what you say, what you think the lie?
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think?
Speaker 2: You and I are both walking out?
Speaker 4: True?
Speaker 1: I know, but also are you really thinking about having
Speaker 1: another baby?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think they're both lies. I'm hoping, but one.
Speaker 1: I'm not hoping.
Speaker 3: I'm babies.
Speaker 2: Right, We're down to the final truth.
Speaker 3: Done, dun dun well. The truth is I would have
Speaker 3: another kid.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm not going to, but you would, but I would, okay,
Speaker 2: And this is just the present with the three birthstones.
Speaker 2: And I know I was like, I don't remember your
Speaker 2: pupils when you told me about the band.
Speaker 1: When I asked, oh my gosh, okay, so mine mine
Speaker 1: are stupid?
Speaker 2: Okay, I be ready ye true, we're gonna do. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna okay, we're going to beat the LA texture test.
Speaker 1: I pete on myself in Walmart, ready.
Speaker 4: On myself and can't take this rid.
Speaker 3: I might just on thee.
Speaker 1: I pee on myself in the car writer line, who
Speaker 1: knew you were the number one girl? Okay?
Speaker 3: So we put on myself.
Speaker 1: This is why I said, no, you pooped on your
Speaker 1: self Ware at work.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go with I'm gonna say to embarrassing. I'm
Speaker 3: gonna say that.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say the lie is that she peed on
Speaker 2: herself in Walmart.
Speaker 3: I don't think you want you go to Walmart, but.
Speaker 2: I do think you poop your pants.
Speaker 3: I think we've all shard before.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I didn't see you before. I don't even
Speaker 2: know where.
Speaker 3: Any Way, I love Walmart. I want to put that
Speaker 3: out there.
Speaker 1: I just thought that would be a fun.
Speaker 2: I just never heard you go to Walmart, so that's where. Okay,
Speaker 2: that's my that's sting the lies. Okay, you peed in
Speaker 2: Walmart yourself and Walmart you peed yourself Ware.
Speaker 3: Car rider Line pooped yourself at work? I say the
Speaker 3: car rider.
Speaker 1: Line definitely did not pee myself at Walmart.
Speaker 4: Good job.
Speaker 1: You know a pop story though, anyway, so sure do
Speaker 1: as everybody.
Speaker 2: I think it's kind of fun and we're rapping. Bye guys,
Speaker 2: Bye bye