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Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio podcast.

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Speaker 2: All right, so this week's Thursday Therapy, We've got Annie

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Speaker 2: sarnblad On. She is a human light detector, so she

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Speaker 2: is an expert in reading facial expressions as well as

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Speaker 2: a Steem strategic advisor. Who I'm so excited, I am

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Speaker 2: so nervous. Do you believe in light detectors?

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Speaker 3: Yep?

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Speaker 1: Do you Nope?

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Speaker 2: Actually, can I change my answer because I think I

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Speaker 2: remember a story? No, no, no, listen, I've known.

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Speaker 3: Why are you pointing at me?

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Speaker 2: I've known two people that passed the lie detector test personally,

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Speaker 2: know them that both lied. So I just don't know

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Speaker 2: if I try personal, pretty personal, but I will say this,

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Speaker 2: Kat is the most buttoned up, non commenting person today.

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Speaker 2: It's cracking me up. But we had just a view

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Speaker 2: of just her face with this entire time. Let me

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Speaker 2: just say this, as Catherine's got my gruntee little son

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Speaker 2: over there, I think I would trust the facial expressions

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Speaker 2: over the other ones. So that's why I'm really interested

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Speaker 2: to talk to her. Good point because it's actually easy

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Speaker 2: to how do I say this? You can pass a

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Speaker 2: lie detected chest by the breathing, so if they ask you,

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Speaker 2: it's taken your breath. So it's like if you go

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Speaker 2: if you know, yeah, like is your name Kristen, Yes,

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Speaker 2: if you're to ask it, so you have to control

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Speaker 2: your breathing for all the answers. Little Jana Panther.

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Speaker 1: One people to pass a detector does and this is

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Speaker 1: why they're not admissible in court.

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Speaker 2: But I think with facials, I again I would want

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Speaker 2: to know. That's why I'm so excited talk to her

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Speaker 2: because I'm like, I would believe that over anything else,

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Speaker 2: because there there's got to be a look or something.

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Speaker 2: There is something like a look to the left or something. Well,

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Speaker 2: let's get her on. And you're the actress, so this

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Speaker 2: is going to be a real test, a testimony to

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Speaker 2: your craft. And we got to truth and a lie

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Speaker 2: and we're going to see if she can decode it.

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Speaker 2: And one of mine is a speculation that you guys

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Speaker 2: might not know, okay, what there might be something you

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Speaker 2: don't know? Cat cat considering it. I find out today.

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Speaker 2: So we'll see.

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Speaker 1: Annie Annie hie.

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Speaker 4: Nice to see you all.

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Speaker 3: Nice to see.

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Speaker 2: What is your last name? I know your last name,

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Speaker 2: but what is the origin.

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Speaker 4: It's in English.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I totally did say that wrong. Then yeah, sartn

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Speaker 2: blood okay, and then what is it?

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Speaker 4: What is that if you want to say in Swedish?

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Speaker 3: It's Swedish? Okay, all right, I love that.

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Speaker 1: Are you?

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Speaker 3: Did you grow up there or did you grow up here?

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Speaker 4: It's my ex husband's name, but my maiden name is

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Speaker 4: actually Norwegian Solberg. Okay, it's so bye. So everybody. When

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Speaker 4: I moved to Sweden as a sixteen year old exchange student,

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Speaker 4: that was my version of running away from home. Everybody

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Speaker 4: thought I was Swedish. Sod help learn the language quickly

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Speaker 4: because people would just talk to me in Swedish.

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Speaker 2: And they see your ex husband because you saw a

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Speaker 2: facial expression that you didn't like.

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Speaker 4: No, No, Unfortunately, I just made bad choices.

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Speaker 3: Wow, we've all been there.

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Speaker 4: He's a nice person. It wasn't a good fit and

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Speaker 4: I had a lot of traum in my childhood, so

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Speaker 4: I chose something that felt very safe and predictable.

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Speaker 2: And then I don't know if anybody has wrapped up

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Speaker 2: my life in a sentence quite as fast as you

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Speaker 2: just did. But so jinks, Annie, Yeah, buy me a coke,

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Speaker 2: that's right. But I will say this, So I love

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Speaker 2: that you went straight too. He's a good person. You

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Speaker 2: had your stuff, Like, I love that aspect of it.

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Speaker 3: You're not trying to be Yeah.

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Speaker 4: He's because I've had I've dated other people that aren't

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Speaker 4: good people.

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Speaker 2: But difference also jinks. Okay, Annie, do you just want

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Speaker 2: to come sit down with us because.

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Speaker 4: I feel I really would like to, Like, I feel

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Speaker 4: like I just snuggle right there in the middle of

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Speaker 4: the sofa.

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Speaker 2: Who is this right now? He's three and a half

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Speaker 2: weeks old? So this is my son Jack Geez. I

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Speaker 2: always collim Jason Roman. I either call him the dog.

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Speaker 1: Or welcome to having three children, whichever kids you were Roman.

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Speaker 4: Yep, I've got three too, and I had I had

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Speaker 4: mine in just over three and a half years, so

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Speaker 4: I still get them confused.

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Speaker 3: So that's a thing.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing all day every day.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I do it probably every day.

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Speaker 2: Because I started to think, I'm like, maybe I should

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Speaker 2: change his name because I can't I keep them.

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Speaker 4: It's just fine, You're just in like it's I mean,

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Speaker 4: hormones and all the things.

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Speaker 3: Sure that was weird?

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Speaker 2: Is I have all l's. I have three kids, they're

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Speaker 2: all l's. And I don't confuse them, but I confuse

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Speaker 2: the boy like my husband and my son's name.

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Speaker 1: I was just about to say that I do that

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Speaker 1: Nick and Caiden are the same person.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well sometimes I get him mixed up with the

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Speaker 4: dog too, Like that's not popular.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes the behaviors are somewhat similar, and it's warranted if

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Speaker 2: I'm honest. Between the eighty five year old. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 2: So I have a question. We started briefly to chatted

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Speaker 2: about this. Do you believe it that lie detectors, the

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Speaker 2: ones that go on your chest, are those one hundred

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Speaker 2: percent accurate?

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Speaker 4: I actually have no idea. It's a great question, but

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Speaker 4: those are dealing with like heart rate and gosha. I

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Speaker 4: don't even really know how to answer that. It's not

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Speaker 4: something that's particularly interesting to me because the machinery detects

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Speaker 4: changes and breathing and heart rate and all these like

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Speaker 4: physiological reactions, and so a really good spy can create

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Speaker 4: an alternative reality, just like I mean, you know about this.

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Speaker 4: You're an actress, so like when you're in that scene,

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Speaker 4: you're living it, right if you're doing it, well, you're

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Speaker 4: there emotionally, yeah, and you're in it, and so really

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Speaker 4: good spy creates two parallel lines of thought, and it

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Speaker 4: can put themselves into like the emotional the like fantasy life,

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Speaker 4: so like did you did you murder her? And like

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Speaker 4: in Vegas and the like. If you can convince yourself

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Speaker 4: that I was on a beach in Akapolco, then you

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Speaker 4: were on a beach in a c Polco and you

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Speaker 4: could in theory trump the machine.

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Speaker 3: Right because yeah, okay, that makes yes.

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Speaker 4: That expressions that actually precede the thought process.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, what's that, Like, what's the first micro expression

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Speaker 2: that you would go That person is lying?

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Speaker 4: So I'm looking for the disconnect. So the facial expression

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Speaker 4: and the words don't match. So somebody, I mean, it's

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Speaker 4: as simple as somebody saying I did not do that

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Speaker 4: while they're nodding like that's our body leaking and that's

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Speaker 4: the knot isn't really a micro expression, and that's and

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Speaker 4: the knot is also not universal. It depends. That's Western society.

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Speaker 4: But if I say, I'm so happy to be on

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Speaker 4: your podcast and I'm showing the growl, I'm showing the

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Speaker 4: no face, that the facial expression of disgust, there's something

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Speaker 4: off there. I'm not actually feeling what I'm saying that

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Speaker 4: I'm feeling.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I am so nervous right now and I think

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Speaker 2: it I am the world's worst liar. Like I have

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Speaker 2: sweaty hands. I feel like I am being busted right

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Speaker 2: now and there's literally nothing. I've done nothing. But do

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Speaker 2: you know what's so funny? Is I really wish she

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Speaker 2: would say? And that's usually the people that lie once

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Speaker 2: say that like I would never do that.

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Speaker 3: I would.

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Speaker 2: I'm just no, Like, I'm just right. I'm a chronic

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Speaker 2: overs like I'm a chronic oversharer, so like I won't

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Speaker 2: I can't even tell you that I had something that

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Speaker 2: I didn't have for lunch.

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Speaker 3: No manny talk to us about that.

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Speaker 4: Everybody wants to say to me. They're like, oh, you

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Speaker 4: must be awesome and poker, and I'm like no. The

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Speaker 4: reason that I'm obsessed with this has to do with

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Speaker 4: childhood that had a fair amount of trauma in it,

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Speaker 4: and the people that would that we're supposed to be trustworthy,

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Speaker 4: that lied to me all the time, and my obsession

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Speaker 4: with figuring out who I could rely on and who

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Speaker 4: was who was safe and who was trustworthy. And so

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Speaker 4: I'm a terrible liar. I really don't like lying, and

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Speaker 4: I don't like it when people lie to me. I mean,

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Speaker 4: the obsession comes from a need to figure out who

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Speaker 4: is it's less. My best friend always says, you're not

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Speaker 4: a lie detector, You're a truth detector. Like you don't

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Speaker 4: really care who lies to you. You want to figure

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Speaker 4: out who tells you the truth.

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Speaker 2: So has this been since childhood that you've had this

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Speaker 2: passion and then does it go into like learning the

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Speaker 2: traits professionally all of the thing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So that the childhood piece is my why, you know,

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Speaker 4: why I got into it and why it was such

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Speaker 4: an obsession with me. And then the fact that I

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Speaker 4: was gaslightd so much about what I saw and what

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Speaker 4: I lived through, you know, that didn't happen a week

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Speaker 4: later that was no longer true, and I was told

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Speaker 4: to you know, family loyalty was very, very you know,

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Speaker 4: it was a big focus, and so I really ran

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Speaker 4: away and got away as early as I could. I

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Speaker 4: was fourteen years old when I started planning. You know,

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Speaker 4: I figured out that you could be an exchange student,

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Speaker 4: that you could basically go and live with another family,

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Speaker 4: and so that became my obsession, and I how I

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Speaker 4: got out and I was gone. I mean, it came

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Speaker 4: back for vacations and that kind of thing, but I

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Speaker 4: was It was almost twenty five years that I was

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Speaker 4: outside of the US, and I've lived in nine different countries.

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Speaker 4: So I spent much of my time learning languages. I

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Speaker 4: have a master's in anthropology, and I spent like this focus.

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Speaker 4: I was obsessed with learning languages through immersion. So and

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Speaker 4: I wasn't that great learning languages. So I literally have

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Speaker 4: spent years in my life not understanding what people are saying.

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Speaker 4: And then I got certified in what's called facial action

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Speaker 4: coding and learned to numerically code the different muscle combinations

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Speaker 4: in human expression. But I'm not that good at that

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Speaker 4: advanced mathematical coding, so I simplified the entire field to

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Speaker 4: be able to teach my kids.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's so interesting. So I grew up in a

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Speaker 1: similar situation and was basically taught to lie my whole

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Speaker 1: childhood and then to lie like told to lie, tell

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Speaker 1: your grandparents this, tell so and so.

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Speaker 2: This, so.

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Speaker 1: Then I would have a natural as I got older,

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Speaker 1: in natural inkland the smallest thing to just lie. And

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Speaker 1: then I got to a point where I'm like, hated

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Speaker 1: that is not cat by the way, but I hated lying.

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Speaker 1: So it's still a very I get very hurt, very

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Speaker 1: easily if I know someone's lying, and it is a

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Speaker 1: huge I take it.

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Speaker 2: So personal too. And I'm going through a phase of

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Speaker 2: my son right now. He's five, and he is the

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Speaker 2: sweetest liar, and it's like a I can tell, like

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Speaker 2: I don't want to be mean about it, but I

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Speaker 2: can feel it hit somewhere in my body where I'm like,

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Speaker 2: you could be a million things in life, but don't

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Speaker 2: ever be a liar to me.

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean, we carry our own troublem And isn't

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Speaker 4: that so interesting with children that they hold this mirror

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Speaker 4: up to us where we not only have to figure

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Speaker 4: out what we want to do differently. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 4: even when you grow up in an ideal situation at home,

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Speaker 4: you want to figure out, like what what do I

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Speaker 4: want to do differently and what do I want to

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Speaker 4: do the same as my parents, and they really reflect back.

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Speaker 4: But for me, one of the hardest things is figuring

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Speaker 4: out how to kind of meet it in the middle

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Speaker 4: and not just respond from my trauma all the time,

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Speaker 4: but grow through it and heal and say that like, Okay,

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Speaker 4: a five year old lie is pretty normal and you

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Speaker 4: can write and you don't want to shame them, but

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Speaker 4: you also want to talk about how that makes you

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Speaker 4: feel without bringing all the druma. I mean I remember

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Speaker 4: my oldest looking at me at one point and saying,

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Speaker 4: not everything has to be a life lessen mom.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of how I feel though, Like I feel

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Speaker 2: like I'm I feel like I'm doing that. Like I'm like,

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Speaker 2: if it starts now, then he's gonna spiral and he's

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Speaker 2: gonna you know, and I'm like, really, he's just five

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Speaker 2: and he's just got a big imagination.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but you should still tell him what you're feeling

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Speaker 4: and you know, but in age appropriate words.

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Speaker 2: But or maybe we just FaceTime miss Annie and she

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Speaker 2: can tell me what's really like.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 3: Have you dealt with that too, with the kid aspect.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean five is a very normal age for

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Speaker 1: them to start doing that. We just have, like I

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Speaker 1: have to find ways with my older kids to be like,

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Speaker 1: as long as you tell me the truth, as long

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Speaker 1: as you're honest with me, we can deal with anything.

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Speaker 3: Like what we have.

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Speaker 1: We just very much deal with that. But like I

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Speaker 1: haven't have a hard time in my marriage because I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you lied, and he'll be like I said, it was blue,

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Speaker 1: not green. I mean, it'll be the smallest thing, and

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Speaker 1: he's like, you've got to let that go, like and

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Speaker 1: it can get hard. So I'm trying to be better

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Speaker 1: about it because it's not It's also not that black

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Speaker 1: and white to me. It's like a Lia's Eliza, lie,

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Speaker 1: you omitted this and you lied to me, you know,

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Speaker 1: And so I have to I have to bring myself

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Speaker 1: back from that.

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Speaker 3: And I as childhood trauma on the couch.

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Speaker 1: And not great in these days.

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Speaker 4: It's really everybody that has childhood trauma exactly.

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Speaker 2: I think it's just because we're all talking about it finally.

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Speaker 1: But I also don't think I would want to be

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Speaker 1: able to do what she can do.

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Speaker 2: Is there error in what you do as well? Like

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Speaker 2: when you so for example, like my fiance is the

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Speaker 2: most loving, i mean sweet human being, but he's he's

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Speaker 2: more he's he's Scottish, he's a little bit more harsher

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Speaker 2: on his expressions. He's more like, I know he loves me.

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Speaker 2: But I think when maybe some people that might see

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Speaker 2: something and be like, oh well, he's not doesn't look

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Speaker 2: very happy or something, and I'm like, he's right. So

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Speaker 2: that that piece, I'm like, well, you don't also know

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Speaker 2: you know X, Y and Z.

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Speaker 3: So I'm just curious.

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Speaker 2: Is there a piece of it where it's like it's

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Speaker 2: not all about just the facial I guess.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So how can I have a dirty mouth? Like

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Speaker 4: how sure? Yeah, okay. So I can always tell the emotion.

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Speaker 4: I can tell what somebody is feeling clear as day.

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Speaker 4: I cannot tell what they are thinking. I can't tell

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Speaker 4: the why. But the micro expressions when you get to

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Speaker 4: the level that I'm at, and my kids have been

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Speaker 4: trained by me, so we never missed the micro expression.

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Speaker 3: And that's the nod the right.

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Speaker 4: So so like this is the full facial expression of disgust.

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Speaker 3: So that yeah, she's kind of like clenching her teeth

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Speaker 3: a little bit.

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Speaker 4: We're actually trained out of it as as grown ups,

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Speaker 4: and the micro expression that leaks that, you know, we're

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Speaker 4: trained out of these micro expressions by or the macro expressions,

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Speaker 4: the long, big facial expressions out from our parents because

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Speaker 4: it's not socially acceptable to be like, oh, you want

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Speaker 4: me to go over to your house? Oh, right. We

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Speaker 4: you know we can't, we can't go through life in

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Speaker 4: a socially acceptable way. But the micro expressions precede the

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Speaker 4: thought process and they leak all day long. So it's like, oh,

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Speaker 4: you want me to do this deal with you. That

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Speaker 4: twitch is always there, so I can see the exact

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Speaker 4: moment and the exact feelings, sometimes even before the person

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Speaker 4: feeling it has time to process their emotions. However, I

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Speaker 4: don't know why, Like if I ask you to meet

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Speaker 4: me for lunch next week and you showed disgust, which

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Speaker 4: I call the no face, that little twitch. I don't

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Speaker 4: know if it's because you're busy. I don't know if

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Speaker 4: it's because you don't like me. I don't know if

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Speaker 4: it's because you have, like, you know, some visitor, or

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Speaker 4: because you really you wanted to read my book before

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Speaker 4: you continued working with me, and you hadn't had a chance.

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Speaker 4: I mean, there's all these scenarios. So I when I

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Speaker 4: speak frankly, I say, it's as universal as a man

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Speaker 4: with an erection. If you set a naked man with

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Speaker 4: an erection, he is aroused. I don't know if he's

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Speaker 4: thinking about me.

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Speaker 2: But I know that's a different podcast altogether.

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Speaker 4: Right, that's a different podcast. But if he's standing there

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Speaker 4: going like I'm not aroused, you're going, well, yes you are,

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Speaker 4: because there's a change in blood flow and muscle movement

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Speaker 4: in response to that arousal.

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Speaker 2: Will my bowtox throw you off?

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Speaker 4: On my and the level that I work with, because

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Speaker 4: it's almost, like I explain it, like if you do

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Speaker 4: a five hundred puzzle piece puzzle and it's sailboats, and

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Speaker 4: then you take out a bunch of the puzzle pieces,

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Speaker 4: I can still see it's just it's still boats. So

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Speaker 4: that's sort of a simplified way of saying with every expression,

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Speaker 4: there's a top piece and a bottom piece. And so,

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Speaker 4: for example, a genuine smile, what happens has nothing to

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Speaker 4: do with the mouth. If we're genuinely feeling joy, our

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Speaker 4: cheeks pop up and that makes this skin right here

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Speaker 4: under our eyes bold it out, and we get these

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Speaker 4: little smile bags. So if I'm if I'm masked, you

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Speaker 4: can still see that regardless if you see my mouth

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Speaker 4: or not.

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Speaker 2: I am so fascinated by you. So could we do

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Speaker 2: Can we do a little game before we talk about

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Speaker 2: your book?

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Speaker 4: Sure?

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Speaker 3: Okay?

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Speaker 2: Can we do two truths and can we do two

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Speaker 2: truths and a lie?

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Speaker 4: Sure, it might go first. It might be this is

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Speaker 4: a little tricky because people get so joyful about lying

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Speaker 4: and situations.

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Speaker 2: I am not. You're not joyful, and I want you

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Speaker 2: to go first.

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Speaker 4: So shame. But you're gonna show like a little bit

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Speaker 4: of delight. So okay, we go, let's try it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, don't you go first? No, you go first? No,

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Speaker 2: Catherine got and I vote?

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Speaker 4: Thank you?

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay, okay, let me get my questions. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So two truths and a lie? Ready, and I would

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Speaker 2: have another kid I got wrongfully sued last year.

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Speaker 3: Alan and I are already married.

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Speaker 4: So that was dead panned. But you showed, you showed

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Speaker 4: mirth that thought we're already married.

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Speaker 3: What does mirth mean?

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Speaker 4: It just means like tricky business.

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Speaker 2: That should actually be the name of this podcast, dream business.

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Speaker 4: So I don't know because you said it's so fast,

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Speaker 4: and then you were like, hey.

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Speaker 1: If you're already married, I'm gonna lose my mind.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I do have an extra band on my

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Speaker 2: hand that no one's asked about. Can you say I

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Speaker 2: don't know which one? Sure, I'll say him again. I

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Speaker 2: would have another kid, I got wrongfully sued last year.

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Speaker 2: Alan and I are already married an actress.

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Speaker 4: So the wrongfully sued last year, you showed a little disgust.

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Speaker 4: So I'm guessing that you were wrongfully sued.

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Speaker 1: Catherine, Well, I know you were wrongfully so say true true,

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Speaker 1: Yeah the other two I'm questioning myself over here when

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Speaker 1: I'm worried about the answer on both.

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Speaker 4: It's fun, like it is a fun game. The really

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Speaker 4: interesting thing for me is that when people are in

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Speaker 4: a high stake situation, because they'll often show shame. And

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Speaker 4: so what I look for in somebody exhibiting shines of

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Speaker 4: being a sociopath, for example, is whether or not they

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Speaker 4: show shame when they're lying, and whether or not they

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Speaker 4: show empathy when someone else gets hurt. We should pucker

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Speaker 4: our chin. That's a crucial piece of empathy. So if

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Speaker 4: you're telling you about something that's really hard, like if

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Speaker 4: you go into detail about being wrongfully sued, I'm gonna

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Speaker 4: pucker my chin because that's not fair. I'm feeling your

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Speaker 4: pain with you. So if somebody doesn't ever show that,

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Speaker 4: and you're supposed to be emotionally attached, so like if

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Speaker 4: you're dating somebody and you're trying to figure out, Okay,

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Speaker 4: I know this guy's attracted to me, but does he

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Speaker 4: actually care about my feelings? You know, whenever you talk

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Speaker 4: about something that's emotionally, physically, or financially difficult for you,

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Speaker 4: he should be puckering and mirroring that chin. That's basically

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Speaker 4: saying I'm feeling this feeling with you.

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Speaker 2: And like, if you were to ask a partner are

401
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Speaker 2: you cheating on me? What would be their face of lie?

402
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,240
Speaker 2: I mean, this is why we're best friend.

403
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Speaker 4: But so I do get this question sometimes. Yeah, this

404
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,200
Speaker 4: is so if he says no, one nods. That's a

405
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 4: problem anytime somebody says again, we're talking about the US, Canada, Mexico,

406
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,240
Speaker 4: Western Europe. Like if you get over to Sri Lanka

407
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,639
Speaker 4: and India, there's different head movements. So that is a

408
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,480
Speaker 4: cultural thing. But in our culture. I grew up in

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Speaker 4: the US too, this means yes and this means no.

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Speaker 2: So he's like, we say that again. This so shaking

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Speaker 2: your head means shaking your head.

412
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Speaker 4: No means so I've never done that, and absolutely I'll

413
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,439
Speaker 4: be there for you. That matches, right, But if you're

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Speaker 4: saying I'm never I would never cheat on you. That's

415
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Speaker 4: a problem.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that made me feel weird when you did that.

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Speaker 4: Actually it feels itchy, right. You always trust your gut,

418
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Speaker 4: even if you can't dissect it or you don't know

419
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Speaker 4: the science behind it. There's a reason that our gut

420
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Speaker 4: is telling us. And so what I'm trying to do

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Speaker 4: is help women put the words, put the science on

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Speaker 4: why their gut is telling them certain things.

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Speaker 2: So then what else with the head nod with the

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Speaker 2: the cheating question.

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Speaker 4: So my son came to me and said to me,

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Speaker 4: he's eighteen and he was a few months ago and

427
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Speaker 4: he said maybe. It was last year he said, I

428
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Speaker 4: want to go out on Saturday night? Can I go

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Speaker 4: out to this party? And I was like maybe? And

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Speaker 4: he goes, thanks, because all my kids are trained, and

431
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Speaker 4: I go I said maybe, and he goes yeah. But

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Speaker 4: when you say maybe, and you know that's always you're

433
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 4: always end up saying yes because you're thinking yes. And

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Speaker 4: when you say maybe and you shake your head, that

435
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 4: means you're not You're gonna say no. You always say

436
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:02,480
Speaker 4: no when you shake your head.

437
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 2: So have you outsmarted yourself raising these little idea? I

438
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 2: know I'm kind of feeling it for you. I'm glad

439
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 2: there's more of you in the world. But then I'm

440
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:13,880
Speaker 2: also like, oh, kind of sucks to be the mom.

441
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,399
Speaker 4: K of when your kids can see you're attracted to

442
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:21,880
Speaker 4: somebody because your pupils dilate. That sucks. You're like, oh,

443
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 4: you think he's hot.

444
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, no, awkward when it's like mister Smith

445
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:27,959
Speaker 2: and math teacher.

446
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, so wait, have we figured out you're lying yet?

447
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 3: It's very important I give one truth in one lie.

448
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,360
Speaker 1: No, I want to know. I want to know.

449
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 3: I'm sorry.

450
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 4: No, I'm not doing that well.

451
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 2: I just was thinking. I get a lot of comments

452
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 2: on this podcast. They'll post a little bit of the

453
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 2: of like the video of this podcast sometimes in to

454
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 2: tease the episode, and people write to me all the

455
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,719
Speaker 2: time they're like, we wish we had a full video

456
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 2: of your expressions because I feel like I'm not good

457
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 2: at hiding it. And then I feel like, sometimes I

458
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 2: look at me, it looks like I'm not having any fun,

459
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:21,360
Speaker 2: but I'm so always.

460
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:23,640
Speaker 1: My face always looks like I'm mad.

461
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 4: But okay, so that is that like when we furrow

462
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 4: our brow. So even if you've got botox and you

463
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 4: think that that actually impedes these muscles from ferr and

464
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 4: these are thinking muscles, are concentrating muscles, and we like

465
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 4: tend to bring this all down. And it's almost like

466
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 4: kick starts the process of thinking of like problem solving,

467
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 4: and there's a piece of problem solving both in problem

468
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 4: solving and in anger. But people mistakenly think this sort

469
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:53,120
Speaker 4: of stern look is necessary necessarily anger, and it's only

470
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:54,640
Speaker 4: anger if the mouth is tight.

471
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 1: And that's what I feel like I am on here.

472
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 1: It's usually when I'm listening and I really thinking about

473
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 1: what you're saying. I look miserable, but I'm truly thinking.

474
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I look like I have reasting beef.

475
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: And Janna's like, why are you looking at me like that?

476
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:10,120
Speaker 4: Are we good?

477
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 3: Okay?

478
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 4: It doesn't look friendly because our brains processed as part

479
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 4: of anger. And that's correct, and it's the part of anger.

480
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 4: But anger is always going to have like whether the

481
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 4: mouth is shut or open, it's always it clenches everything,

482
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 4: That's what it's like. It clenches our shoulders or clenches

483
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 4: our fists so that we are preparing to fight.

484
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 2: I think there's a good piece of what you just

485
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 2: said too about it's yes, the expression like if you

486
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 2: were to ask someone okay, have you cheated or or

487
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 2: did you cheat on me? Your your your gut is

488
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 2: also asking that question too, right, So I think there's

489
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 2: such a good piece with it. Yeah, exactly, like even

490
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 2: having that conversation, even asking that's a huge, like you said,

491
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 2: huge problem. So yeah, I think that's the first thing

492
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 2: and going okay, if you're asking that, right, you're is

493
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 2: telling you something that's probably not.

494
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: Good, probably not a good sign.

495
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 4: If you have to ask, I would totally I would

496
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 4: totally agree. And so I'm always looking at whether or

497
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 4: not the facial expressions match the words. So somebody who

498
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 4: says I'm really happy for you, that's a problem showing disgusting,

499
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 4: that's a problem. You know I got that, I got

500
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 4: that great promotion, or I just had a baby. You know,

501
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 4: people should be like, you know, yay, congratulations. They should

502
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 4: be lifting up their cheeks. That's joy. Their body language

503
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 4: and everything should be aligned. If something feels off, it's

504
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 4: because it's your primitive brain processing that something's wrong. Those

505
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 4: are your survival skills kicking in.

506
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 2: We have a girl's night coming up, and it's gonna

507
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 2: be funny that there's three of us pseudo trained. But

508
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 2: also you're a great actress, as we saw in at

509
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 2: my fortieth birthday party. So when I'm being funny, not

510
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 2: when I'm being serious, one truth, one lie, one truth,

511
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 2: one lie. Yep, I probably have the most botox of

512
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 2: anyone on this couch. So this is the ultimate test. Annie. Okay,

513
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 2: I've ridden a camel. Yeah, I've been strapped to a

514
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 2: semi going fifty five miles an hour. I kind of

515
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 2: got to say the truth is the fifty five miles

516
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 2: an hour. I'm like, oh my god, that's because that's

517
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 2: so crazy.

518
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 4: I cannot tell. I literally can't tell.

519
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 2: Is this when I give a shout out to my

520
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 2: injector or because or is it that I've put myself

521
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 2: in two places in my brain?

522
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 4: I don't know. I mean, i'd like, I literally just

523
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 4: I can't tell.

524
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 2: I've never ridden a camel.

525
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,880
Speaker 1: I was saying, you're strapped to a on the show, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

526
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 2: My husband had to help me with this, which makes

527
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 2: me a little nervous actually, because I'm I've always sucked

528
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 2: notoriously at two truths and a why even in school

529
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 2: and everything, Because I just I don't know why there's

530
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 2: something like weird in my brain that happens that anyways, it's.

531
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 4: A weird game. And what I usually get people will

532
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 4: do this to me at cocktail parties are at it

533
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 4: and they'll be like, Okay, I'm gonna like it.

534
00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 3: I'm they show to light.

535
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 4: Which is what we call that facial expression of like

536
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 4: of trickery, like I'm going to get you on. But

537
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 4: now it's a game, and that's what's usually off. What

538
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 4: was kind of interesting and you say both of those

539
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 4: things is you just kind of deadpanned the straight up,

540
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 4: like like just send them boats straight out without much emotion.

541
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 4: But that when you said I've never ridden a camel,

542
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 4: you tucked your you touched one corner of your lips

543
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 4: into the into the cheek, and that's what we call

544
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 4: a knowing smile. So that's like, I know, I know

545
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 4: about this.

546
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:32,959
Speaker 3: Okay.

547
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 2: So you have a book out that's called Diary of

548
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,719
Speaker 2: a Human Light Detector Facial Expressions and Love, Lust and Lies.

549
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 2: What is the biggest takeaway that you that will help

550
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 2: people that read this book? And then what your biggest like,

551
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 2: what was your favorite chapter in it?

552
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 3: So we can promote the book.

553
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 4: So the biggest takeaway is that these are things that

554
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 4: we kind of sort of already know. The pieces that

555
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 4: I'm teaching for a lot of us women. When I

556
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 4: hit my audience right, people are reading the pieces about

557
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 4: my life and then I'm dissecting them and teaching the

558
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 4: facial expressions using my life's stories. And when I'm hitting

559
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 4: my audience right, they're they're looking at these they're reading this,

560
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 4: They're going, yes, that's true, and I know this facial

561
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 4: expression and I know Barack Obama always makes the facial

562
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 4: expression of suppression.

563
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 3: I would love to see you in politics.

564
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, there's that would be a whole other podcast.

565
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 3: But there's certain peace to thy coming, right.

566
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 4: That's the people that certain people make and when we

567
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 4: when I break it down and I show it, or

568
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 4: that Mona Lisa smile of kind of like yeah, that

569
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 4: half one lopside and smile like I know about that,

570
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,479
Speaker 4: that sort of secret I know something you don't know.

571
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 4: Or the dilation of the pupil, which which is so

572
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 4: useful in love and dating to see if somebody's really

573
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 4: feeling aroused in the moment. They're people's swell during the

574
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 4: conversation and you're like, oh, my god, I have this

575
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 4: person in the palm of my hands. They're really interested,

576
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 4: they want me right now. Those pieces are so juicy

577
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 4: and so interesting, and I think for a lot of women,

578
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 4: I'm putting words on things that they intuitively have always

579
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 4: known because I'm describing the universal language of our species,

580
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 4: which is biologically hardwired into us. And I think they're men.

581
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 4: I mean, I have male friends that I work with

582
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 4: that I really enjoy intellectually, and they've said I can't

583
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 4: get through ten pages, like there's too many feelings.

584
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, I'm so excited. I'm really excited. I'm just

585
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 2: going to leave it on the nightstand. I think it

586
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 2: speaks for itself.

587
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 4: I like peaks about love and lust. That's my favorite.

588
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 4: Those pieces. I think I will endlessly be interested in

589
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 4: knowing if someone that I have strong feelings for me

590
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 4: is one attracted to me too emotionally attached to me?

591
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 4: Does he want me? And does he love me? I

592
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 4: think are such universal questions.

593
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 2: Yes, and that's an ad to cart for everyone. So

594
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 2: thank you any so much for coming on the show.

595
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 2: Would love to have you back on. You're so sweet.

596
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 4: Thank you nice Kat.

597
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 2: We didn't get to you, but we're also your truth

598
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 2: and I just don't know. We have to lie.

599
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: I need to know if you're having another baby or

600
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: you're married. This is so important.

601
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 3: I can guess what you say, what you think the lie?

602
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think?

603
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 2: You and I are both walking out?

604
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 4: True?

605
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: I know, but also are you really thinking about having

606
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: another baby?

607
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 2: I mean, I think they're both lies. I'm hoping, but one.

608
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: I'm not hoping.

609
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 3: I'm babies.

610
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 2: Right, We're down to the final truth.

611
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 3: Done, dun dun well. The truth is I would have

612
00:30:58,960 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 3: another kid.

613
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm not going to, but you would, but I would, okay,

614
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 2: And this is just the present with the three birthstones.

615
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 2: And I know I was like, I don't remember your

616
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 2: pupils when you told me about the band.

617
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: When I asked, oh my gosh, okay, so mine mine

618
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: are stupid?

619
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 2: Okay, I be ready ye true, we're gonna do. I'm

620
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 2: gonna okay, we're going to beat the LA texture test.

621
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: I pete on myself in Walmart, ready.

622
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 4: On myself and can't take this rid.

623
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 3: I might just on thee.

624
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: I pee on myself in the car writer line, who

625
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: knew you were the number one girl? Okay?

626
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 3: So we put on myself.

627
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: This is why I said, no, you pooped on your

628
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: self Ware at work.

629
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go with I'm gonna say to embarrassing. I'm

630
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 3: gonna say that.

631
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say the lie is that she peed on

632
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 2: herself in Walmart.

633
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 3: I don't think you want you go to Walmart, but.

634
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 2: I do think you poop your pants.

635
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 3: I think we've all shard before.

636
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I didn't see you before. I don't even

637
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 2: know where.

638
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 3: Any Way, I love Walmart. I want to put that

639
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 3: out there.

640
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: I just thought that would be a fun.

641
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 2: I just never heard you go to Walmart, so that's where. Okay,

642
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 2: that's my that's sting the lies. Okay, you peed in

643
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 2: Walmart yourself and Walmart you peed yourself Ware.

644
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 3: Car rider Line pooped yourself at work? I say the

645
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 3: car rider.

646
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: Line definitely did not pee myself at Walmart.

647
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 4: Good job.

648
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: You know a pop story though, anyway, so sure do

649
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: as everybody.

650
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 2: I think it's kind of fun and we're rapping. Bye guys,

651
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 2: Bye bye