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Speaker 1: N Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

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Speaker 2: Every Wednesday, we recap our old shows with all new commentary,

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Speaker 2: updates and insights, and you're welcome.

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Speaker 1: Today we're recapping episode seventy one, which we named put

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Speaker 1: it in a door.

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Speaker 2: That's right, it'll make later, Yeah, exactly. This episode came

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Speaker 2: out on June first, twenty seventeen, So.

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Speaker 1: Let's listen to the intro of episode seventy one.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to My Favorite Murder.

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Speaker 3: This is a podcast, and that's Karen Kilgarrett and.

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Speaker 2: That's over there, Georgia hart Stark. Hi, we're the hosts.

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Speaker 3: We're the hosts. This is all planned out.

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Speaker 2: Super and it's very naturally delivered.

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Speaker 1: We're actually reading a teleprompter right now.

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Speaker 2: It's one of those invisible ones, so if you were

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Speaker 2: looking at us, you wouldn't be able to see it,

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Speaker 2: but we can see the words that are scrolling on it.

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Speaker 1: Stephen's actually mouthing the words to us that we have

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Speaker 1: to be saying right now.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Steven's in down below the stage and a little

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Speaker 2: half shell the way they used to do it in

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Speaker 2: the operetta times, whispering our lines to us. Yeah, we

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Speaker 2: have a little earpiece in we're like a newscasters, but

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Speaker 2: Stephen is the director up in the control room.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, breaking news, None of that's.

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Speaker 2: True, breaking news.

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Speaker 1: This podcast is starting in case you couldn't tell in

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Speaker 1: five that was a ruse. The whole thing it was

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Speaker 1: a trick. The whole thing has been a trick. I

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Speaker 1: think my cat barred on.

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Speaker 2: The couture sitting. Why can you smell it or feel it?

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Speaker 3: I don't want to say feel it, but that's true.

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Speaker 2: But that might be the horrible truth.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, flow off to a gross start.

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Speaker 2: Yay, nice, really good. I'm getting over what I believe

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Speaker 2: to be me death pneumonia, but it's probably just a

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Speaker 2: standard chess cold. Probably the plague knocked me out. I

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Speaker 2: didn't get to do anything I wanted to do list

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Speaker 2: weekend or week So I'm a little bit like when

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Speaker 2: you don't see anybody for four days and then you're

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Speaker 2: all like everything's real intense and you forget how to

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Speaker 2: speak to people.

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Speaker 3: You've only been yelling at your dogs.

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Speaker 2: Probably I will probably tell you the plot of a

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Speaker 2: sitcom as conversation where it's like and then she wanted

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Speaker 2: in the kitchen. It was so crazy what did you watch?

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Speaker 3: Like, did you have like a thing that you got

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Speaker 3: through the whole time?

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Speaker 2: I did start watching a series on I have a

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Speaker 2: one of those I won't name the name of it

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Speaker 2: because I don't like it that much of but it's

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Speaker 2: one of those we have all the British shows apps.

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Speaker 2: So I watched a bunch of obscure British procedurals that

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Speaker 2: weren't the best and also weren't the worst. So I

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Speaker 2: that's sometimes I'm in the mood for just truly mediocre television. Sure,

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Speaker 2: and I could just watch a ton of it.

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Speaker 1: Well you know what I did the other night. I

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Speaker 1: was home alone and I was like scrolling and you

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Speaker 1: can't decide what to watch, and like my TV whatever

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Speaker 1: kind it is, like it pops up all these options,

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Speaker 1: and one of them was YouTube, and I'm like, who

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Speaker 1: the fuck watch is YouTube on television? Like it's a

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Speaker 1: very foreign thing to me, the children. Yeah, And so

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Speaker 1: I like kind of clicked on it to see like

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Speaker 1: what videos they were like offering, and I got in

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Speaker 1: a deep dark hole of men doing tutorials of makeup. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I mean they were fucking famous, and they were talking

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Speaker 1: about like the scan like like they were talking to

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Speaker 1: these people who watch it every day. Yeah, and they're like,

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Speaker 1: I know this thing happened, and people said this about

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Speaker 1: me on the internet, like their stories, and like I

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Speaker 1: looked one of them up because I was like, what happened,

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Speaker 1: and like one of them said something kind of racist

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Speaker 1: on accident, and it was just this whole.

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Speaker 3: World that I am not familiar with at all.

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Speaker 2: And now you're like right in front and center, like,

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Speaker 2: bring me that drama on that YouTube drama? Yeah, did

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Speaker 2: you see the one that's the little boy doing that

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Speaker 2: in sane makeover? And whoever tweeted it, it was this

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Speaker 2: great short video of a boy who maybe was nine

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Speaker 2: or ten doing insanely amazing makeup on himself, incredible makeup,

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Speaker 2: and the person that tweeted it said some fucked up

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Speaker 2: thing like yeah, like what would you do if this

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Speaker 2: was your child? And all these huge, famous people and

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Speaker 2: all these awesome people and cool people wrote back, like

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Speaker 2: Samantha ronson the DJ. She wrote back, like sit back

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Speaker 2: and enjoy the life. He's going to give me as

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Speaker 2: like as a you know, business, like basically he's going

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Speaker 2: to be rich and famous and he's going to take

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Speaker 2: care of me and like all David Cross wrote back,

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Speaker 2: throw my Bible away and love him unconditionally and all

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Speaker 2: this stuff where it's just like it's this world where

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Speaker 2: it's so funny when people get onto social media thinking

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Speaker 2: that they're going to like rally their troops the way

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Speaker 2: where it's like, no, that's not the world anyone lives

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Speaker 2: in anymore. Yeah, little boys doing amazing like Contour Kardashian

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Speaker 2: lovel makeup is standard fair, Yeah, and he's welcome.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen the little kids who do the bad ones?

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Speaker 1: Like one little girl like was like clearly obsessed with

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Speaker 1: makeup tutorials because she knew exactly how to do everything,

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Speaker 1: and she might have been like seven or eight, and

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Speaker 1: so she just like sneaks into her mom's room and

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Speaker 1: she's like whispering the whole time, and like starts doing

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Speaker 1: a makeup tutorial and just makes her face look like

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Speaker 1: how a seven year old would make think makeup on

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Speaker 1: And it was just the cutest thing. And I think

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Speaker 1: her mom comes in at the end and she's like,

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Speaker 1: oh shit, I gotta go. It was just like so sweet.

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Speaker 2: I love it. Also, I can watch because my friend

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Speaker 2: April Richardson's obsessed with makeup tutorials and makeup herself. So

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Speaker 2: there have been times where she's good at it. She's

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Speaker 2: really yeah, she's and she's all goth, so she's all

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Speaker 2: about like, I'm gonna wear a blue lipstick and this

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Speaker 2: red eye shadow. But there was a night where we

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Speaker 2: were started to watch something it may have been like

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Speaker 2: a Republican debates night or something where we got into

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Speaker 2: something really tense and upsetting, and then at the end

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Speaker 2: of that, she's like, hold on, and then just flipped

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Speaker 2: on this girl that was just doing this insane like

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Speaker 2: Susie's Sue amazing eye makeup, and it's so soothing to

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Speaker 2: watch someone. It's just like watching an artist draw.

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Speaker 1: A bunch of people on Twitter were like that I

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Speaker 1: tweet about a bunch of people comment They're like, try

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Speaker 1: the hair ones. I bet the hair ones are so soothing.

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Speaker 2: My niece Nora is obsessed with the hair ones. There

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Speaker 2: are two sisters, there's a whole family.

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Speaker 1: They're like twins.

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Speaker 2: They're twins, and then the mother's a hairdresser, so she'll

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Speaker 2: get in there and be like, here's Elsa's hair from

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Speaker 2: Frozen and here's this, this this, Well, now, these girls

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Speaker 2: they started when they were like ten years old. Now

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Speaker 2: they're in high school. And my sister's like, they're like

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Speaker 2: Nora's friends. That's like she's been watching she's little, right

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Speaker 2: right right. Yeah. So they get on there and they're like,

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Speaker 2: here's our first day of school hair and then they

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Speaker 2: show you what they're going to do, and they show

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Speaker 2: your mom how to do your hair cut. Basically it's

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Speaker 2: the cutest. I love it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah for them, God bless us everyone, God bless us.

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Speaker 3: Good night, good night. This has been YouTube corner.

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Speaker 2: What do we have?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: You have that email?

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Speaker 1: Oh I have an email to read you guys, a

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Speaker 1: real good one. It's an it's a kind of a correction.

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Speaker 1: It's a clarification corner. Is that anything.

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Speaker 3: It's called tip from NYPD.

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Speaker 2: I was just listening to that should be the whole,

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Speaker 2: a whole new area tips from the NYPD.

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Speaker 1: Great, Yeah, everyone send in your tips. And this is

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Speaker 1: actually a guy who sent us a tip, or no,

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Speaker 1: a woman who sent us a tip from a friend

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Speaker 1: who was in the MYPD. So you don't directly need

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Speaker 1: to be secondhand tips.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all about it.

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Speaker 1: Second hand tips from those in the now corner.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it has to the source has to be factual

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Speaker 2: and in the know though. Please keep that in mind.

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Speaker 1: But we're not going to do any fact checking, and

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Speaker 1: that's on you. You don't need to either, Okay, Hi,

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Speaker 1: it's really it's really structured.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of rules.

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Speaker 2: It's more of a storytelling corner.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, don't just don't, okay, Hi, I was just listening

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Speaker 1: to you guys explain that you should ask a cop

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Speaker 1: to see their ID and their badge in which we

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Speaker 1: talked to me recently. Wanted to share recommendation from a

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Speaker 1: friend of mine who was a retired NYPD after twenty years.

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Speaker 1: If a cop quote cop comes to your door and

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Speaker 1: you weren't expecting them, you shouldn't open the door. You

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Speaker 1: should call nine one one and ask the operator if

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Speaker 1: they're supposed to be cop at your house. Yes, the

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Speaker 1: nine one one operator should confirm with the officers, and

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Speaker 1: you should be able to hear that confirmation over the

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Speaker 1: police radio through the door, which is like so intense,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like most people would be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I don't want.

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Speaker 3: To be like, that's intent. That's a lot of steps.

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Speaker 1: If they aren't a real cop, you won't hear that

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Speaker 1: and won't get confirmation and nine one one will know

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Speaker 1: that there is an impersonator at your.

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Speaker 2: Door, and you'll it'll be an impersonator. So even if

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Speaker 2: you're like, oh I went through too many steps, you know,

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Speaker 2: have a person that was trying to get into your

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Speaker 2: house and you now have nine one one on.

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Speaker 1: The line, and you know they're not the little shit

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Speaker 1: and it's like, well, I would be like, well, what

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Speaker 1: if they break my door down, which they can't do

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Speaker 1: unless they have a warrant.

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Speaker 2: But then it would be the police, and that would

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Speaker 2: mean if they were breaking your door down, that would

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Speaker 2: mean you were in there with like a hostage or something.

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Speaker 2: I mean like, that's yeah, they don't break your door

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Speaker 2: down when they just need to come and talk to.

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Speaker 1: You about right. But if the guy, if the killer

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Speaker 1: breaks your door down, then you're already on the phone

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Speaker 1: with nine one.

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Speaker 2: That's right, that's exactly right. Also, it's not gonna happen.

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Speaker 2: I'm in for the chances you get a new front

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Speaker 2: door if it's that easy. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Our old front door at my old place was like

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Speaker 1: a bedroom door, was it really? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: It was like hollow.

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Speaker 1: I know this because I fucking patched over it. But

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Speaker 1: I put a note in it first, but it was

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Speaker 1: just a total hollowed bedroom door.

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Speaker 2: And note what did the notes say? It was like

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Speaker 2: a wish, oh.

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Speaker 3: Which I don't do very often, but it came true.

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Speaker 1: I think it said like, I wish to be mildly

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Speaker 1: successful and very happy. Fucking I don't need to be

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Speaker 1: like extreme. I'm not asking for everything.

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Speaker 2: Wait a second, did you just start a new trend

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Speaker 2: of putting wishes inside doors and patching over I mean,

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Speaker 2: that's amazing.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a thing of like hiding wishes. There's

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Speaker 1: a wishing tree in Griffith Park on a path and

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Speaker 1: someone just puts paper and a pan up there and

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Speaker 1: there's like a hollow in the tree and you just

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Speaker 1: drop your wish in there. Huh, what would your wish be?

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Speaker 1: Tree your door? Because it's two different scenarios. Or it

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Speaker 1: could be tree, door, birthday cake anything.

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Speaker 2: Oh aren't you not supposed to say? Can you tell?

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Speaker 1: You could probably say the door.

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Speaker 2: Tell Steven and then he'll tell.

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Speaker 1: You it could be you know, because stevens such a gossip. Okay,

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Speaker 1: how about because I just told the door wish the

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Speaker 1: door wish you're allowed to say, but the birthday and

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Speaker 1: tree you're not allowed.

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Speaker 2: To say, oh, well right now, it would be to

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Speaker 2: meet somebody that was exciting that would make me not

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Speaker 2: feel dead inside anymore.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, So you're not going to meet like a

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Speaker 1: nice what I don't know, what's a job that a

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Speaker 1: guy could be the architect.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a trade like something that's just like yourself sufficient

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Speaker 2: and you're not. Your job isn't to judge or rate

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Speaker 2: other people.

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Speaker 1: Ip I always thought mechanics probably were cool who like

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Speaker 1: specialize in a certain kind of like old car and

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Speaker 1: they're like the best in their trade.

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Speaker 3: Or tattoo artists would be fun.

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Speaker 2: Tattoo artists would be very cool. Yeah, yeah, just like

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Speaker 2: one of those guys you know sometimes you see people

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Speaker 2: fixing the road as you drive by, They've got like

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Speaker 2: a hard hat and an orange shirt. Yeah, like, that's

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Speaker 2: the hottest guy I've ever seen, and we'll ever see

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Speaker 2: and he's probably so down to earth.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, let's punch a hole in your door and.

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Speaker 1: Let's get the wish and go and do it. Let's

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Speaker 1: let's don in my closet door, which is a mirror. Oh,

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Speaker 1: that'd be fun, and then you have seven years good luck, right, that's.

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Speaker 2: The this is a classic example of if you've just

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Speaker 2: tuned in, you have no idea what this podcast is.

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Speaker 1: About or why it's so what the fuck moment for

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Speaker 1: all of you. Don't worry, We'll get to the murder.

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Speaker 2: Don't worry.

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Speaker 1: But it's gonna get real dark, so calm down if

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Speaker 1: you're really into dark stuff. And then we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about The Keepers.

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Speaker 2: So this is we've been People have been asking us

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Speaker 2: over and over obviously on social media, Yeah, to talk

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Speaker 2: about these things, these things that come up that are

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Speaker 2: true crime, these.

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Speaker 1: TV shows, these TV shows, or like, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And the Keepers. So I watched it. I did the

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Speaker 2: thing where I started watching it in the afternoon and

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Speaker 2: then stayed up all night watching the entire thing.

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Speaker 1: I think I texted.

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Speaker 3: You and was like, I'm about to start this.

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Speaker 1: I think we like press play at the same time

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Speaker 1: we did, and then we text over the ageinning, and

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Speaker 1: then I think we both stopped because we were both

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Speaker 1: just like so engrossed in it. Yeah, well I had

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Speaker 1: to leave or you had to leave stopped, we stopped talking.

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Speaker 1: Then I had to pause it, and I was so mad.

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Speaker 2: I had to go to a show, and all I

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Speaker 2: wanted to do is come back and keep watching it.

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Speaker 2: It was It's the most amazing series about It starts off.

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Speaker 2: You think you know what it's about.

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Speaker 1: Here's how I keep explaining it to people who don't know.

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Speaker 1: A nun gets killed in the late sixties. She's a

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Speaker 1: high school teacher. She's a wonderful person. You think that's

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Speaker 1: what it's about. Yeah, And then episode and the rest

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Speaker 1: of it is priest who was the principal? Fucking all

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Speaker 1: the the high school students?

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Speaker 3: Did she get killed?

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Speaker 2: Are they?

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Speaker 3: Are they?

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Speaker 1: This is exactly how I explain it. This is not

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Speaker 1: how I explain it usually. I've had two white wines

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Speaker 1: before I explained it.

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Speaker 2: And it's a lot and you're yelling over music in

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Speaker 2: a bar.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm yelling at somebody who doesn't want doesn't

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Speaker 1: care about true crime. Right, Okay, so you go.

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Speaker 2: Well, no, I mean it is all that I think

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Speaker 2: he was the counselor though.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so, but he was definitely like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: you tell me, Yeah, I'll tell you all about it. So

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Speaker 1: in the Catholic church, let's start from the they brought

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Speaker 1: him in. So it's a Catholic high school in Baltimore,

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Speaker 1: all girls, all girls high school, and they bring this

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Speaker 1: guy in as a counselor, and so the girls get

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Speaker 1: called into the counselor's office and the way they tell Okay,

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Speaker 1: first of all, let's just say this. You meet these

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Speaker 1: two women who had gone to that school, were taught

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Speaker 1: by sister Kathy, the none that got murdered, and they

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Speaker 1: are trying to find out her cold case, how she

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Speaker 1: got murdered, why she got murdered, what happened, because one

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Speaker 1: of them is having these memories repressed. She's an old

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Speaker 1: you know, she's.

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Speaker 3: In her forties.

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Speaker 1: She's a mom and a wife with the fucking best husband.

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Speaker 1: Am I wrong?

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Speaker 3: He's like the best?

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's a different I'm talking about this too. That

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Speaker 2: everyone's saying are the Karen and Georgia murder Reino characters.

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Speaker 1: The actual investigator, the investigative, and they're the best.

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Speaker 2: They're the best. All you want to do is sit

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Speaker 2: at that kitchen table with them and talk about this stuff.

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Speaker 1: Kat Sulan said she's going to be the redheaded one

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Speaker 1: for Halloween. Like, that's the best thing I've ever heard

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Speaker 1: in my life. It's that woman is so awesome.

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Speaker 2: I wish I'd looked up her name, but they're they're

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Speaker 2: just basically going, we loved our teacher. We want to know.

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Speaker 2: We don't think it's right that she was murdered and

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Speaker 2: that the case went cold. We want to know what happened.

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Speaker 2: And in their digging they start finding out these things simultaneously,

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Speaker 2: but not not knowing. Across town, the woman Georgia was

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Speaker 2: talking about starts having a he repressed. Memories start coming

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Speaker 2: to her of things that happened to her.

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Speaker 1: There, and when she breaks down crying at her table, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: after she tells a very detail. I mean, these two

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Speaker 1: women who come forward, who are the Jane does are

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Speaker 1: so brave. I can't even handle it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because what happened to them, it's the thing, and

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Speaker 2: this is the thing that happens. It's so upsetting when

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Speaker 2: you watch these Catholic church molestation stories, it's the absolute

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Speaker 2: abuse of power and the predatory nature of these priests

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Speaker 2: or who you know, whatever, whoever the story is about.

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Speaker 2: But in this case, this priest who would pick girls

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Speaker 2: who he knew had single parents, He knew their parents

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Speaker 2: had been recently divorced, he knew that they were maybe

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Speaker 2: going through some stuff themselves.

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Speaker 1: Maybe even already molested already being molested. So it was like, well,

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Speaker 1: it's almost like if you in the wild had to

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Speaker 1: be like, here are the steps of how children, how

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Speaker 1: people pick children get molested because these people have free

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Speaker 1: rein and it's like point for point, the grooming and

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Speaker 1: the threatening in these it's just so awful.

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Speaker 2: It's awful, and it's the thing of back then, because

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Speaker 2: I think it was nineteen seventy, right, I think it was.

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Speaker 1: Like sixty eight or sixty nine when she got murdered.

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Speaker 2: Okay, maybe so, but yeah, basically in that in that realm,

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Speaker 2: this was back when if a priest called you to

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Speaker 2: his office, you just get up and leave class and go,

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Speaker 2: and nobody around would go, why is he calling you there?

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Speaker 2: You don't need to be alone in an office with

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Speaker 2: that man or whatever. There was nothing quite the opposite

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Speaker 2: where they had.

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Speaker 1: They had complete power over where children went, what they

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Speaker 1: did when they went, Like you were special if you

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Speaker 1: got called at the office. Almost yes, and oh and

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Speaker 1: the worst part is that priest found the woman.

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Speaker 2: Who you were talking about. Oh, we should know these

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Speaker 2: people's names, and now I can't remember. But that woman

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Speaker 2: who broke down when she was telling that story, she

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Speaker 2: went to him, and in confession confessed to him that

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Speaker 2: she had been molested as a child and that's how

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Speaker 2: he knew to pick on her.

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Speaker 1: And he said, she's asked for forgiveness, and he's like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you I don't know if we

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Speaker 1: can do that, and I'll help you get for Oh

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Speaker 1: it's listen.

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Speaker 2: Let me tell you this as a Catholic for a long,

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Speaker 2: long life Catholic. Sorry did a yell, Stephen, just pull

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Speaker 2: this thing off. But let me tell you this. The

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Speaker 2: way confession works is you go into that box, you

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Speaker 2: spill your guts and the priest who is who is

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Speaker 2: there as a as like a what do you call that?

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Speaker 2: Almost like the symbol of God. Right, he's there to

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Speaker 2: go because in the Bible that says you ask forgiveness

385
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Speaker 2: and you get it. So and people know this now,

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Speaker 2: but it makes me so mad because in that moment

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Speaker 2: when he said, I don't know if God can can

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Speaker 2: forgive you, ding ding ding red. Let know that it's

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Speaker 2: not yours to say.

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Speaker 1: Well, how are scary to know that he forgives everything

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Speaker 1: and accept.

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Speaker 3: The thing that you've done.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, anyways, I think the Keeper is one of the

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Speaker 1: fucking best one documentaries. I am engrossed. I have twenty

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Speaker 1: fucking minutes left, and I almost don't want to get

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Speaker 1: through it on.

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Speaker 2: That last episode. Yeah, yes, because you don't want to

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Speaker 2: let it go.

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Speaker 1: Like seven episodes, I think, and it is just Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the reason I found the YouTube thing is because I

401
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,359
Speaker 1: needed a break because I was so fucking engrossed and

402
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Speaker 1: depressed about it.

403
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Speaker 2: It's so heavy, it's so much to like absorb. Yeah,

404
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,480
Speaker 2: but I will also say this, the person I believe

405
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Speaker 2: the director's name was Ryan White, the one name I remember,

406
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Speaker 2: And kudos to him because in those interviews when people

407
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Speaker 2: start crying, they must have felt a level of comfort

408
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,760
Speaker 2: talking to him about this and the way he conducted

409
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Speaker 2: those interviews. Not only when he was talking to the victims,

410
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Speaker 2: did they really share so much of themselves and like

411
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,760
Speaker 2: obviously feel comfortable enough to express their real emotions, which

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Speaker 2: is a very difficult thing to do. But then like

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Speaker 2: later on when he was talking to that guy who

414
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Speaker 2: is now in chart the Baltimore Police chief, where he

415
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Speaker 2: was just hearing these things and then going yeah, we'll

416
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Speaker 2: have to look. But you saw on his face he

417
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,400
Speaker 2: was like, what the hell is going on? That he's

418
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Speaker 2: being informed? About how these cases were handled in the past.

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Speaker 1: And then and then the interview with the guy who's

420
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Speaker 1: the suspect, Yes, said old dude, Oh my god. Oh.

421
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Speaker 1: And the other thing that drives me crazy, of course,

422
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Speaker 1: because this is our fucking thing that we hate, is

423
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Speaker 1: that the only reason the statute limitations isn't up on

424
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,680
Speaker 1: this molestation charge is because they have. It's because it's

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00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:31,280
Speaker 1: a repressed memory that just came through. So if they

426
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Speaker 1: have to prove in court not only that they were molested,

427
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,800
Speaker 1: but that they just remembered it, yes, which is must

428
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Speaker 1: be impossible to prove in itself. But how sick is that? Yeah?

429
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Speaker 1: How sick is that that if you didn't remember it later,

430
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Speaker 1: you you couldn't pross, you couldn't go after this perse

431
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Speaker 1: the statute of limitations makes me fucking ill. And I

432
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Speaker 1: think someday we're going to be if the fucking apocalypse

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Speaker 1: hasn't come already, we're going to be.

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Speaker 2: I feel like that is changing in some place. I

435
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,920
Speaker 2: don't know about Baltimore, but yeah, the when they all

436
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,600
Speaker 2: start going and it's not just that school or just

437
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,760
Speaker 2: that specific priest, but there's a part near the end

438
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:11,879
Speaker 2: where a lot of people are going to talk about

439
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,480
Speaker 2: how that law needs to change.

440
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:18,200
Speaker 1: There's a lot of victims I think who get who

441
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,160
Speaker 1: get their power back by changing laws, and I think

442
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,640
Speaker 1: that's a big one. Unfortunately, it's most of those are

443
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,879
Speaker 1: never retroactive, right, which is such a Again, it is

444
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,719
Speaker 1: such a fucking bummer and it kisses me on It's insane,

445
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,760
Speaker 1: especially because you know, with these sexual molestations and even

446
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:35,639
Speaker 1: you know, in rapes and all these things, it's like

447
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:37,760
Speaker 1: victims don't want to come forward and to it right

448
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,480
Speaker 1: away because it's traumatic and it's opening them again. But

449
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:42,399
Speaker 1: once they get their strength and are older.

450
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,640
Speaker 2: But by then, well, it's the crazy part is everything

451
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:50,440
Speaker 2: it becomes dependent on a person who's been victimized. It's

452
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:54,040
Speaker 2: really amazing too having done this podcast for the short

453
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,880
Speaker 2: amount of time that we've done it, like how much

454
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 2: I've come to learn and understand about like the victyctims

455
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,960
Speaker 2: and the positions they get put in and how much

456
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,680
Speaker 2: is put on them. So it's like, so no one's

457
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 2: going I mean not that no one is, but it's

458
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,720
Speaker 2: it was like, so it's all just depending on whether

459
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 2: or not this girl who has been traumatized and victimized

460
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:23,120
Speaker 2: and truly, like her entire childhood has been completely ruined

461
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 2: and screwed up and she's just blocked entire things out

462
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 2: and all this stuff.

463
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 1: But it's all just on her shoulders. Yeah, nothing is

464
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,119
Speaker 1: on that fucking monster priest. Well, it's that thing of

465
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,720
Speaker 1: like innocent and til proven guilty the person being accused,

466
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,440
Speaker 1: but the person who's accusing them is lying and tel

467
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,719
Speaker 1: proven otherwise almost, which is just not It's like, I know,

468
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 1: innocent until proven guilty is a strong thing in our

469
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 1: society and it's needed and necessary, but it's that that

470
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 1: means that the person who is bringing their charges is

471
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,720
Speaker 1: a liar and tell proven otherwise.

472
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 2: Well, when you have those kinds of lawyers that the

473
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,280
Speaker 2: lawyers that were the lawyers for the Catholic Church that

474
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:03,679
Speaker 2: were defending this rest, uh, I don't know how they

475
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 2: sleep at night. I don't know how they sleep at night, especially.

476
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 1: After this, after this, it's gonna say, podcasts, after this series,

477
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,840
Speaker 1: where you're just like the the the way they were

478
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 1: arguing and the things that they did and said, and

479
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,200
Speaker 1: the fact that ultimately the fact that they are supposed

480
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 1: to be representatives of the church. Yeah, it is just

481
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 1: the ultimate hypocrisy. And the shittiest just like, what are

482
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 1: you fighting for? You got to look at that, like.

483
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,159
Speaker 2: You you're basically accusing these people of like they're going

484
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 2: to sacrifice their whole life and credibility for like because

485
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 2: they're trying to chise all money out of you. I

486
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 2: don't think.

487
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: So they can't even come out as their real names

488
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 1: or Jane Doe because they will be fucking attacked by

489
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 1: not just the church, but people who are Like it's

490
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 1: just every fucking every episode, don't skip one. There's like

491
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,400
Speaker 1: a new revelation that's fucking incredible, but it's really hard

492
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 1: to watch.

493
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 2: It's very hard to watch. And also it's pre Spotlight,

494
00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 2: so like they were really the first ones that made

495
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 2: an actual dent and a mark. And I remember, but

496
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,679
Speaker 2: I just didn't separate the cities because I remember the

497
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,679
Speaker 2: Spotlight things happening in Boston, but these ones that happened

498
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 2: in Baltimore. They this Jane Doe, these two women really

499
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,120
Speaker 2: were the ones that came forward and like started making

500
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 2: a dent.

501
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 1: Least I had never heard of it. I mean, it's incredible,

502
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 1: it's an incredible show.

503
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:24,919
Speaker 2: Got to watch it. It's amazing.

504
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, next week on Shows we love. We'll talk about mommy,

505
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,719
Speaker 1: dad and dearest. That's right, I know we owe you guys. Yes, however,

506
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 1: the keepers came and it was just like, oh my

507
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 1: all my attention is here.

508
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 2: Amazing? Yeah, yeah, Okay, how much longer do we have?

509
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 1: The seven episode? Over? Who goes first?

510
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 2: First?

511
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:46,360
Speaker 1: Questions?

512
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:48,360
Speaker 2: Karen? This this week?

513
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:48,640
Speaker 3: Okay?

514
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 2: Okay, and we are back.

515
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: So this has to be before the time that Elvis

516
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 1: barked on Steven's laptop, right, and I have to buy

517
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: him a new one. I think we're in Australia for

518
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 1: that one.

519
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 2: That's right, we were away, so it's a different cat

520
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 2: bar Yeah, this one is more. I think the cats

521
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,120
Speaker 2: were kind of looking at the loft like that's where

522
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 2: they can really go and get get a bunch of

523
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 2: stuff out of their system.

524
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 1: Right, I mean literally an hour and a half ago

525
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 1: I cleaned up cat barf, So there's no there's no

526
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 1: rhyme or reason.

527
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 2: Frank stood up in the middle of the night and

528
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 2: did several huge, wheezy coughs and then he coughs something

529
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 2: up and then we all just kind of I was like, yeah, yeah,

530
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 2: that's pets.

531
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 1: Is it bad podcasting to say the worst part now

532
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 1: is of having a dog, is that he wants she

533
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: wants to eat the barf. That's not good podcasting.

534
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 3: No one wants to hear that.

535
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 2: Right, Is it off topic for the rewind episodes? So

536
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 2: hard to say.

537
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 3: I've known ten years plus I should know not to

538
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 3: talk about that.

539
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 1: I mean, but it's part of our lives. It's part

540
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 1: of the How many items have we gotten even on

541
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: this tour from people in the meet and greets with

542
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: cat stuff? Oh my god, my cat now mill comes

543
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 1: to a looks in my bag when I get home

544
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 1: now from tour because I've brought him so many catnip toys.

545
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 3: Yeah that are shaped like weapons.

546
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 2: That's right. It's part of the culture of this podcast.

547
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: That's right, and we love it speaking of just like

548
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: YouTube is part of the culture of this podcast. I

549
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: love that we're talking about it back then, Like who

550
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: would watch YouTube? I know YouTube and make it tutorials

551
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 1: like that's now basically your what your life revolves around.

552
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 2: My god, it's the TikTok version, the cleaner way, more influency. Yeah,

553
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 2: I need to buy this right now version.

554
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: So I've started scrolling past like my even my favorite

555
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: dermatologists that I follow and like estheticians, I can't keep

556
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: being told that no, not that one, this one, no,

557
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 1: not that one, this one, no, not that. I can't

558
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 1: keep doing that. I've got them all, I've collected them all.

559
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: If they don't work, then I'm fucked.

560
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 2: That's fine, there's just nothing to be done. Also, I'm

561
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 2: starting to get influenced by the d influencers who are

562
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 2: like you don't read.

563
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 1: This, oh yeah, and you're like, but I already bought it.

564
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 2: I know, but it is kind of nice to see

565
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 2: that where people are kind of like, hey, look, this

566
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 2: is like they'll go through all the newest items at

567
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 2: Sophora and be like you don't need another glossy lip

568
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 2: bumb totally, or like, don't do it.

569
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 1: This ingredient is not going to help you fix this problem.

570
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: That doesn't work that way. You know. We're like, there's

571
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 1: no such nature's botox. Botox is natural, like this.

572
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 2: Botox, yeah, yeah, that's yeah.

573
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 3: I like the de influencer thing.

574
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 2: I did too. It's a real relief. And we are

575
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 2: true de influencers. We are nothing if not de influencers.

576
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 2: So if you want to see us on YouTube, you

577
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 2: can go over to my favorite murder dot video or

578
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 2: search my favorite murder on YouTube because we've got all

579
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 2: kinds of videos up there.

580
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were own channel.

581
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,719
Speaker 2: Now is that exciting? Yeah, brag brag.

582
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 1: I was cringing when I was listening to this because

583
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: it's so much that's changed culturally since we talked about

584
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: you don't have to open the door to police and

585
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: they need a warrant, and you know, like, oh that

586
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: was twenty seventeen, like.

587
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 2: So different, so different, and also just it was the

588
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 2: end of you know, there's a lot of people and

589
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 2: that the kind of criticism that we used to get,

590
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 2: where you talk about the police or like, you know,

591
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 2: I would talk about like my family that was in

592
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 2: the San Francisco Police Department or whatever, and people would

593
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 2: be like, you guys, are you know, part of the problem,

594
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 2: And it was hard to imagine what that meant.

595
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: And now we know full well what it looks like

596
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: and what it is, and it's on the streets and

597
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: it's this overstepping and out of control and it's just like, yeah.

598
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 2: It's good.

599
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: Intentions don't change things and don't really matter in the

600
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: scope of things. So yeah, you know, they're going to

601
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 1: invade Portland they're going to invade Portland is the newest

602
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: insane blitzkrig.

603
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 2: It's just like, what's happening.

604
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, either we're living in a fugue state or we're

605
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 3: living in a fucking fascist fascism state.

606
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 2: It's number two. It's straight up number two. I love

607
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 2: that used to up with like is talking about cat

608
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 2: barf bad podcasting, and it's like or reminding everybody of

609
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 2: just how we have so quickly slipped down this slippery slope,

610
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 2: why these are the deep cut people. That's true. I

611
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 2: want to hear well, because it's weird to hear that

612
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 2: and understand ten years later, how naive what we're saying is.

613
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 2: I mean, that's you could also do that with your

614
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 2: if you recorded your family dinners, the exact same thing

615
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 2: would happen, yes, a decade later and you re listen

616
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 2: to it.

617
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, that's why we're doing these rewinds ultimately,

618
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: and that's why it took us so long to like

619
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: figure out how to do it correctly, because we knew

620
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: that shit like this would come up and we'd have

621
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,239
Speaker 1: to hear it and feel it and cringe through it

622
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: and listen. And then the point is to correct it

623
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: and to acknowledge it. So that's really what these would rather.

624
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: You've listened to this and us acknowledging that, then this

625
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: naked you know, way back when? Yeah, right right, I

626
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,959
Speaker 1: think it's they these early episodes really do need like

627
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: the director's cut, Yes, audio guide because what the hell?

628
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, context, we totally get it.

629
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

630
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 2: I just also have to say that I really wish

631
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 2: I was being more aeroa dite as I spoke. I

632
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,479
Speaker 2: am so god damn tired, uh right now that like

633
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: the words are not coming to my brain.

634
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I forgot how exhausting touring is on your butt.

635
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: Like every day we get back from tour, I sleep

636
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: the rest of the day.

637
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, like in a like coma sleep.

638
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: And I forgot, And I talked to my therapist about it,

639
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I knew I didn't like touring, Like

640
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: I knew that, and yet I did it again, and

641
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: she well blamed it on dissociation, which I appreciate, but.

642
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 2: But also there's more to it. It's like we over

643
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 2: we oversimplify shows. I don't like touring, Yes, exactly, no, exactly,

644
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 2: if we could only, if we can only have it

645
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 2: brought to us. But it, and it's also we're tired

646
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 2: because of the It's not all lows. It's like these

647
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,959
Speaker 2: incredible emotional moments that we get to share with people,

648
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 2: the entire audience, and then people face to face for

649
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 2: a couple hours after the show. It's like there's a lot,

650
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 2: there's a lot going on.

651
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: It's very much like yeah, like overstimulation, Yeah, just peak emotion.

652
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: Like imagine being at a wedding every day. It's kind

653
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: of what it's like, and you're like, you're not the

654
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: brider groom, but you're high up on the you know,

655
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: maybe you're the mother of the bride, so like you

656
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: have a lot of duties and it's exhausting. Now you

657
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: have to do that two days in a row. Come back, work,

658
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: go back and do it two days in a row.

659
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 2: Yes, right, yes, Then you start you stop parsing the

660
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: good and the bad, and you're just like this is

661
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 2: the ard or whatever. But it is.

662
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: That's just the tired part. It's like it actually is

663
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: pretty incredible.

664
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 2: And it is a thing where we wouldn't be able

665
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 2: to know the truth about what this podcast means to

666
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: anybody if we didn't do this, because what we see

667
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 2: online and here online is just a version of something.

668
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 2: It's just a we don't even know where it's coming from.

669
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 2: We don't know the source. But when you have somebody

670
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 2: standing there in front of you, like holding your hands,

671
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 2: and the girl who had this sign that said I

672
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 2: wish you knew we were best friends, and then she

673
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 2: brought it through and I was like, that makes me

674
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 2: want to cry. It's that's the sweetest, kind of loveliest idea. Yeah,

675
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 2: let's get into the part where you wrote a wish

676
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 2: on a piece of paper and put it in your door.

677
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 3: Oh my god, little Georgia.

678
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: I just want to go give her a hug because

679
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: I my expectations for myself were so low and so

680
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: basic that I didn't even wish for anything bigger than that.

681
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 3: You know, I never ever have.

682
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: I've never wish for anything more than like the here

683
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: and now right and you know, the here and now

684
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: and the knowledge to.

685
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 3: Be grateful for it.

686
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: And so I did that in that door and it

687
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: quadrupled at least.

688
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of cool.

689
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very cool. My life is so fucking incredibly

690
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: different than it was when we recorded this. But yeah,

691
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: the same people learning it that I love, and everyone's

692
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,959
Speaker 1: pretty healthy still except for Elvis.

693
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 2: Well, he came in unhealthy. He came in as an

694
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 2: old cat bleuss his heart.

695
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, it's pretty sweet, Yeah for sure. All Right,

696
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: well then I guess let's just get into true crime.

697
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what we're here for.

698
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 2: That's right.

699
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: All right, let's get into Karen's story from twenty seventeen

700
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: about the vampire rapist.

701
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 2: All right, it's my turn, Yes, it's my turn to shine. Now,

702
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 2: this is a suggestion this could be one of our

703
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 2: books where because somebody suggested this to both of us.

704
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 2: So I was actually thinking as I was writing this,

705
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 2: I'm like, what if Georgia saw this one?

706
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: When did they suggest it?

707
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 2: I can't remember. Maybe a week ago on Twitter it's

708
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 2: I'm at miss New Judy suggested it to both of us.

709
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 2: And anytime people suggest them to us, I open it

710
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 2: up and I look at the thing and then I'm like,

711
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 2: Sometimes I'll go like I should do that, and I

712
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 2: never think about it again. And sometimes I go, I

713
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 2: know that one already or whatever.

714
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: I've started bookmarking them in my so when I'm frantically

715
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: on Tuesday morning going where are day?

716
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 2: Which I do, Yeah, you have those ones? Waiting for you. Yeah,

717
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 2: well this one. When I opened it up, I immediately

718
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 2: was so entranced and horrified that I was like, this

719
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 2: is going to be my next one.

720
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: This sounds fun.

721
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 2: So thank you, miss new Judy for suggesting it. It's

722
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 2: so good. It's John Crutchley, the vampire Rapist.

723
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 3: Love it already?

724
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 2: Have you heard? No?

725
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: Okay, clearly I didn't see that tweet, all right.

726
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 2: So this took place around thanks It was Thanksgiving in

727
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty five in Malabar Reverd County, Florida, which is

728
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 2: so Reverd County in Malabar. I guess I looked it

729
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 2: up on a map so i'd know what I was

730
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 2: talking about. It's right on the coast. It's on the

731
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 2: east coast of Florida, and it's it's seventy seven miles

732
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 2: southeast of Orlando, so it's basically middle going toward the bottom,

733
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 2: but right on the water. All right. So this is

734
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 2: what happened. It's Thanksgiving nineteen eighty five and a man

735
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,439
Speaker 2: is driving down the road and he sees a young

736
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 2: woman totally naked. Her hands are handcuffed and her ankles

737
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 2: are handcuffed, and she's hopping down the road.

738
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

739
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 2: So he pulls over. He gets her into his car,

740
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 2: and she's totally weak, she's covered in dirt, she's panicked.

741
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 2: She points to the house nearby and says, remember that.

742
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: House to him, honey.

743
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 2: Yes. He drives her to his house where his wife is.

744
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 2: They call the cops and an ambulance and she gets

745
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 2: taken to the hospital and the doctors find out that

746
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 2: forty to forty five percent of her blood is gone. No, yes,

747
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 2: so she has been. And she then tells them the

748
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 2: story of what's happened to her, and it goes a

749
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 2: little something like this one.

750
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:14,399
Speaker 1: Okay, so.

751
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 2: She was hitch hiking. It's you know, it's nineteen eighty five.

752
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 2: It hadn't been totally taken out of our society yet.

753
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 2: She stays hiking down the road. A guy pulls over.

754
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 2: He's wearing a business suit. He's wearing a suit. He looks,

755
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 2: you know, he looks like a professional businessman, is.

756
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: On the level, and he's just very casually is like,

757
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 1: where do you need to go?

758
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 2: I'll take you there. She jumps into the car. As

759
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:40,959
Speaker 2: they're driving, he goes, sorry, I just have to stop

760
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 2: at my house. Really high jump out and roll. I

761
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 2: mean jump out then, because you've now deviated from the plan.

762
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 2: They only give them one deviation from the plan, I.

763
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,879
Speaker 1: Would say, and then you're not familiar with your surroundings.

764
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: I mean not that it's either way, but then you're

765
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: not like, you're not on your way to the place

766
00:35:58,560 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: you want to, right, I know how to get there.

767
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right. So they pull into his driveway. He

768
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 2: invites her in. She says, no, oh, wait in the car.

769
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 2: He says fine. He goes into the house for a

770
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,919
Speaker 2: little while. He comes back out, and then he goes, sorry,

771
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 2: I just have to get something out of the back

772
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 2: seat really quick. He goes into the back seat behind

773
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 2: the passenger seat, and then he wraps a cord around

774
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 2: her neck and begins to strangle her. He chokes her

775
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 2: out in the car. She wakes up. The next thing

776
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,439
Speaker 2: she knows, she's on the kitchen counter. She's tied down

777
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 2: to the kitchen counter naked, and she is blindfolded with

778
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 2: tape so she can see underneath the bottom of it.

779
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 2: It's not like material laying flat. Yeah, so she can

780
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:41,280
Speaker 2: see that she's on a kitchen counter naked. He's standing

781
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 2: next to her naked, and he has set up a

782
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 2: video camera on a tripod, so he's videotaping it.

783
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:50,439
Speaker 1: Fuck.

784
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 2: He proceeds to rape her on that table. Then he

785
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 2: explains to her that he's a vampire, and she feels

786
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 2: a prick in her arm, and he begins to drain

787
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 2: blood from her arm and drink it.

788
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 3: How how what at that moment?

789
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 2: Is she like?

790
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:10,240
Speaker 3: Oh fuck?

791
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 2: Yeah what level of So you're probably in shock when

792
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 2: something like that happens to you. But then I think

793
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 2: things would just get real black and white, like you

794
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 2: just be like, I need to get out of here. Now,

795
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 2: how do I get out of here? How do I

796
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 2: get out of here? Yeah? So uh so basically, uh.

797
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: I talked through that and then lost my place. I'm sorry, no, no,

798
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: it's okay.

799
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 2: So so then he takes her and he puts her

800
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 2: in the bathtub, and later that day he comes back.

801
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 2: He gets her, takes her out of the bathtub, puts

802
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 2: her on his bed, tranquilizes her some strong drug, and

803
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 2: rapes her again, then drink drains her blood again and

804
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 2: drinks it again, brings her back to the bathtub, and uh.

805
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 2: The next day she wakes up and he does it

806
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 2: again and then He tells her he has to leave

807
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 2: the house, but not to try to escape because his

808
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 2: brother's there and he'll kill her if she tries to escape.

809
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 2: She hears the car leave, and then she manages. So

810
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 2: she's now had her blood drained three times. She manages

811
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,919
Speaker 2: to get up and to kind of stand and pull

812
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 2: herself up to the tiny bathroom window that's above the bathroom.

813
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:27,760
Speaker 1: Can you imagine how dizzy she is at that point?

814
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 2: I mean, and also, just like the amount of times

815
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 2: I say I'm tired when I have done suck all

816
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 2: all day long is shocking. And I think about things

817
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 2: like this where when you have to like dig from

818
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 2: the bottom and like really powered yourself to her, It's like,

819
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 2: I hope I'm gonna be able to do that.

820
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: I got up this morning and got really dizzy and like,

821
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 1: and I hadn't even done anything, And there's no blood

822
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 1: stolen from my person.

823
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 2: Percent of your blood I have one hundred.

824
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: Probably what if Elvis is drinking her blood?

825
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 2: I I that's kind of cute. That's how that's why

826
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 2: you're so bonded. Okay, So she pulls herself up. She

827
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 2: sees that the lock on this bathroom window is broken.

828
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 2: So she opens it up, and she fucking pulls herself

829
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 2: up somehow pulls herself up and shimmy's out of this

830
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 2: window and falls down to the ground outside of the window.

831
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 3: This is Mary Vincent lovel badassory.

832
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 2: Yes, it's amazing and it's yeah, it's just pure. She

833
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 2: knows that this can't go on right, like this isn't

834
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 2: She doesn't have time right. What I love is that

835
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,839
Speaker 2: she being told there's somebody that's gonna kill her, does

836
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:33,720
Speaker 2: it anyway because she knows it's bullshit.

837
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: It's fucking bullshit.

838
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 2: So there's a cop in this one of the uh,

839
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 2: like the shows that I watched about this guy, a

840
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 2: cop who says, if you saw this window, you wouldn't

841
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 2: understand how a person got got out of it. Wow,

842
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 2: Like she made herself fit through a tiny bathroom window

843
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 2: and got out and that's when and then she crawled

844
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 2: to the road and finally got herself up and when

845
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 2: she started hopping, they said a couple of the there's

846
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 2: different on murder Pedia. A couple of the articles say

847
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 2: different things, but one says that a couple of trucks

848
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 2: passed her before anybody picked her up, and then finally

849
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 2: that that guy picked her up, which also that how

850
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 2: hard would it be to get into a strange, strange

851
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:15,280
Speaker 2: man's car.

852
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 1: I also have that thinking, Evan, this is probably from

853
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: goonies of like what if it was the guy coming

854
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:21,720
Speaker 1: home that what is the vampire?

855
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly right, you get into the car the person

856
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 2: that got you there in the first place, and it's like,

857
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 2: to me, that's like the worst horror movie of like, no,

858
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 2: it's almost made it. Yeah, yeah, but she makes it.

859
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 2: So the doctors at the hospital say, if she had

860
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 2: stayed there one more night, she'd definitely be dead because

861
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 2: there's so much blood gone that they kind of are

862
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 2: amazed she got herself out of there. So uh so

863
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 2: she when she got into the car, I told you

864
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,879
Speaker 2: that already right where, she said, remember that house, it's

865
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 2: is my favorite because it's just like she was on

866
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 2: she was like getting she had done.

867
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: So they this girl is a vintage murderer. Now, yeah,

868
00:40:58,600 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: she really is.

869
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,800
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Yes, to take care of business.

870
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, she knows, she knows the signs and signals.

871
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, so she They go back to the house and

872
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 2: they have a search warrant to go back into the

873
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 2: house or I've completely lost my place. You might have

874
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 2: to fix this part, Stephen.

875
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, Well, I'm embressed right now that you just

876
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: like I see you and I'm watching you and this

877
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: is all off the top of your head.

878
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 2: Yes, because it's so when those ones happen where it's

879
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:31,240
Speaker 2: like it's not just a standard awful thing, but it

880
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 2: goes into the world of almost a cult where you're

881
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 2: like these people. It's when you see the house and

882
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 2: the video just a white house on the side of

883
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 2: the road to that looks kind of nice. It looks

884
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,320
Speaker 2: like nice family lives there, and inside is like nightmare

885
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 2: town beyond anyone's like you wouldn't even know what was

886
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 2: happening to you if somebody was draining and drinking your

887
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 2: blood insanity. Yeah, okay, So please get a search warrant

888
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 2: of thirty nine year old John Crutchley's home. His wife

889
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,760
Speaker 2: and child had been out of town for the Thanksgiving weekend.

890
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 2: Uh uh uh huh, so he's a family man. When

891
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 2: they get there, they find the video camera equipment that

892
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 2: she described, but the tape inside had been recorded over.

893
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 3: Had he already come home and he knew she was gone?

894
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 1: Yes?

895
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 2: Okay, probably because so this videotape is recorded over. They

896
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 2: also find and photograph stacks of credit cards in other

897
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 2: people's names, and they find a pile of jewelry hidden

898
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 2: in the back of a closet, all women's jewelry and so,

899
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 2: and they photograph that. So they arrest John Crutchley on

900
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 2: kidnapping and rape charges. So the police in Brevard County

901
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 2: realize they have an advanced predator and this is not

902
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 2: standard fare for them, So they call the FBI and

903
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 2: for them. Who shows up but Robert Wrestler. So, Robert Wrestler,

904
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 2: we've talked about a couple of times, but he's the

905
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 2: famous FBI agent who worked in the behavioral science units.

906
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 2: He worked there for years. He's the guy that developed

907
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 2: ViCAP that basically enabled cops to start communicating on a

908
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 2: national database to put in them os of killers so

909
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 2: that uncaught cold cases and uncaught crimes that people could

910
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 2: enter them in and go, Is there anybody else that

911
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 2: likes to drain the blood of young women? That's Robert Russell.

912
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 1: What a bad ass motherfucker he should have like, you know,

913
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 1: bamf you know, it's the last letters of your name

914
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 1: when you're like a doctor.

915
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, like PhD instead of MD.

916
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's BAMF badass motherfucker.

917
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 2: So they thank god, they call him in and he

918
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 2: immediately has a profile going for this guy, and he

919
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 2: immediately tells the cops this is an organized serial killer

920
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 2: who has definitely killed before, because you don't have a

921
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 2: person that's this comfortable picking somebody off the street and

922
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 2: doing this crazy shit in his home. He didn't even

923
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 2: take her somewhere neutral. He took her to his home.

924
00:43:59,000 --> 00:43:59,760
Speaker 2: He's done it before.

925
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 1: This is the result of escalation, not the beginning exactly right.

926
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, this isn't for your first swing into I think

927
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:07,839
Speaker 2: I'm a vampire? What should I do?

928
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 1: Or I think I'm a rapist? How do I do this?

929
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 2: Yeah? Let me let me do what I want all

930
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,839
Speaker 2: the time. So he and he also I'm pretty sure

931
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,439
Speaker 2: Jack Crawford from Silence of Lamb is based on him.

932
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 2: He's the one.

933
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: Robert Wrestler is the one that wrote a book called

934
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,319
Speaker 1: Whoever Fights Monsters? Oh yeah, I was looking at that

935
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 1: from another murder.

936
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 3: There's so much information in there.

937
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's supposed to be the best book. I've never

938
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 2: read it, though, I'm going to read it. That's gonna

939
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 2: be my.

940
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: Next book too.

941
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 3: Let's fight it together.

942
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 2: Okay, good?

943
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: Should we listen to it?

944
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 3: I wonder if it's a good audiobook.

945
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 2: I like the idea of listening to it. Let's do it.

946
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 2: It's so much easier, it's so much easier. I'm in

947
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 2: my car so much more than I'm in my reading room.

948
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 1: I promise your house will be so clean as soon

949
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:46,879
Speaker 1: as you get into an audiobook that you're into.

950
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's very true. Okay, So whoever fights Monsters

951
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 2: by Robert Wrestler, let's do a read along every Yeah.

952
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 2: But he's also just the guy that like he put it,

953
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 2: he puts it all together in that super interesting scientific

954
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 2: way where it's the guy that's like serial killers are

955
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 2: ninety percent or more are white men between the ages

956
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 2: of twenty eight and thirty whatever, Like that's this guy.

957
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, so those start fascinating when they're so correct, Like

958
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 1: he does this kind of business, he's in this kind

959
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 1: of thing, he has, his family, he has, it's just like.

960
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 2: And then they find the guy and it's like every

961
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:20,399
Speaker 2: almost every time, it seems like.

962
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,839
Speaker 1: They imagine and I keep thinking, like, no fucking way,

963
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: that's crazy, and it's too simple, And then it's like exactly.

964
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 2: Ding ding ding. Yeah, Robert Wrestler a plus, So okay,

965
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 2: excuse me. So they start because once they bring him

966
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 2: in and he tells them this, they start looking at

967
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 2: missing persons cases around Brevard County and they find that

968
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 2: there have been four dead unidentified women's bodies that have

969
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 2: been discovered in that county in the previous year.

970
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: Wait, that didn't immediately ring some bells. I mean, I

971
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: don't know how big that place is, but yeah, that's

972
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 1: fucking insane.

973
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the area, they had in the one year,

974
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 2: four dead women that they didn't know who they were.

975
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 2: I can't breathe. Then Wrestler notices that John Crutchley has

976
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 2: moved a lot and changed jobs a lot, so they

977
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 2: start looking at places he used to live. They look

978
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 2: into his last known addresses and they see there's a

979
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 2: number of cold cases involving missing and the unidentified bodies

980
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 2: of young women. So they start like basically gathering up

981
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 2: all this information. So just a quick background, he uh,

982
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 2: the saddest sentence that I've ever read on Wikipedia is

983
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 2: about this about John Crutchley. It's the beginning of his

984
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:45,839
Speaker 2: Wikipedia entry, and it's born to a well to do

985
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,399
Speaker 2: family in Pittsburgh. John Crutchley was a friendless child. Oh,

986
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 2: a friendless child.

987
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 3: Oh how can that be?

988
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 2: Uh huh? And also when you look at his picture,

989
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:00,720
Speaker 2: if you've ever seen the movie Rent, there's an actor

990
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 2: named Anthony Rapp who has like strawberry blonde hair. He

991
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,919
Speaker 2: could play John Crutchley. He would have to get creep

992
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,839
Speaker 2: out makeup done and probably lose a lot of like

993
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 2: not that he's in any he's perfectly fit to person,

994
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 2: but he doesn't have the same exact face. But he's

995
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:19,359
Speaker 2: basically matches that.

996
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 1: So it's he'll do it for a role.

997
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 2: But anyway, it's just he looks He has like panic eyes.

998
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 2: He has dark eyes and blonde hair, which is scary, like.

999
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 1: He's such a good descriptor yeah. And also the really

1000
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 1: thick like eighties glass eighties aviator glasses, not sunglasses, but just.

1001
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 3: Glasses glasses, the pervert glasses.

1002
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 2: Glasses, but not transition lenses. Interestingly, no, all right, excuse me.

1003
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 2: So anyway, when he so he went to college, he

1004
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 2: got his degree in shit, where'd it go?

1005
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: Oh?

1006
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 2: I don't have that hair. He got his degree in physics,

1007
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 2: I think, or something like that. Then he went to

1008
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:05,879
Speaker 2: graduate school and he got his degree in electronic engineering

1009
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 2: management or something like that. His first job out of

1010
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 2: graduate school was at Delco Electronics in Cocomo, Indiana, and

1011
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 2: he left there relatively soon after because he there was

1012
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 2: an investigation made by the company into missing materials that

1013
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 2: they thought he had stolen. Excuse me, so just right away,

1014
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,879
Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of question marks about this guy.

1015
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 2: So then he moves to Fairfax County, Virginia in the

1016
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 2: mid seventies. That's where his mother lived, and he gets remarried.

1017
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 2: He got married in college and that that marriage ended

1018
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 2: relatively quickly. So mid seventies, he gets remarried and he

1019
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 2: works for several high tech firms in the DC area,

1020
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 2: including trw Ica and Logicon Processes. I don't know none

1021
00:48:55,520 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 2: of those. I mean, how could we ever, So about

1022
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 2: this time when he's working at these companies, several teenage

1023
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 2: girls in the area had disappeared. No In Fairfax, Virginia,

1024
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 2: a twenty five year old woman named Deborah FitzJohn went

1025
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,240
Speaker 2: missing and her remains were later found in a remote

1026
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 2: area by a hunter. She was last seen in Crutchley's

1027
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 2: mobile home, OH Dear, which I don't understand. If he's

1028
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 2: like an engineer at these high end companies, why is

1029
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:24,359
Speaker 2: he living in a mobile home park.

1030
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 3: Maybe it's a fucking the lexus of mobile homes.

1031
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 2: Oh true, true true. From nineteen seventy nine through nineteen

1032
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 2: eighty three, Crutchley worked for a Washington based defense contractor

1033
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 2: and had access to Norfolk Naval air stations, and during

1034
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 2: that time, a twenty three year old Navy messenger named

1035
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 2: Pamela and Kimbrew disappeared from the base on March twenty fifth,

1036
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two. She was later found dead in a

1037
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 2: car submerged at the end of a seaplane ramp. Her

1038
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 2: killer tied her arms behind her with clothesline and then

1039
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 2: tried to strangle her. There was a green ski mask

1040
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 2: and finger prince that didn't belong to her or her

1041
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 2: boyfriend in the car. And then a twenty one year

1042
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 2: old Navy clerk named Carol Anne Molnar disappeared February sixth,

1043
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three. Her decomposed body was found three months later,

1044
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 2: partially buried under rocks of a sea wall at the

1045
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 2: Norfolk base, and she had been strangled. So there's all

1046
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 2: these cold cases around the areas where he.

1047
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 1: Lived has so many and I've never heard of him.

1048
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, well maybe because of this. So so

1049
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 2: when the cops go back in for a second, they

1050
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 2: get a second search warrant, and they go in to

1051
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 2: seize all that stuff that they had seen on the

1052
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 2: first time around. That stack of credit cards is gone,

1053
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,399
Speaker 2: and that pile of women's jewelry is gone. They can't

1054
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 2: find it. That's what they should have taken it. And

1055
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 2: then the tapes are They can't find any tapes that

1056
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 2: have stuff on it. Why right, So because I think

1057
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 2: the first time around they're just like, who, Like a

1058
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 2: search warrant isn't the same as like a search in seizures.

1059
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 1: Maybe there's got to be yeahs.

1060
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 2: And answers, but they were I think it's that thing

1061
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 2: of they're taking pictures of it. They know you haven't

1062
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 2: but then it's gone anyway, and it's that kind of like, well,

1063
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 2: you didn't catch me with it, so there's nothing you

1064
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 2: can do.

1065
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: Okay.

1066
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 2: So anyway, they were unable to find any hard evidence

1067
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 2: that tied him to any of those cold cases that

1068
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 2: I just talked about. But he was brought up on

1069
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:28,280
Speaker 2: charges of kidnapping, rape, grievous bodily harm for the exanguination,

1070
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 2: and drug possession, and he got those last two charges.

1071
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 2: Plea bargained down in exchange for agreeing to plead guilty

1072
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 2: to kidnapping and rape. So they basically cut out the

1073
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 2: fact that he drained and drank her blood and the

1074
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 2: drugs he gave her so that he would just plead

1075
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,240
Speaker 2: guilty and like they could move it along, and in court,

1076
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 2: the defense tried to present him as only being guilty

1077
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 2: of having kinky sexual tastes and an interest in bondage.

1078
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, they referred to the nineteen year old victim as

1079
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 1: a Manson girl who was in fact soliciting him for

1080
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 1: kinky sex when they met. How did I know that

1081
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 1: would happen? That she was into kinky sex and she wanted.

1082
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 2: It this way? Like, how could they know that?

1083
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 1: No, how did I know that that was gonna be?

1084
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: That's how they were going to turn it around, Yeah,

1085
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 1: because that's kind of standard fait.

1086
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, where it's it's almost like the most offensive thing

1087
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 2: that could happen is the way they blow it up

1088
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 2: so that now you're thinking about that instead, Like the

1089
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 2: idea that they call her a Manson girl. Yeah, where

1090
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 2: it's like it's nineteen eighty fucking five. Yeah, Like she's

1091
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 2: not a Manson girl.

1092
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 1: This isn't This summer of love is long long over, right,

1093
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: And whether or not she's a sex worker, pretty sure

1094
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 1: that if she agreed to get into someone's car, having

1095
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 1: her blood drained out of her body and being held

1096
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 1: and repeatedly raped was in no way And like you

1097
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:55,759
Speaker 1: and I could be called like serial killer girls because

1098
00:52:55,760 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 1: we're into like you know. So maybe she's fascinated Manson

1099
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: and reads about him, but that that doesn't mean she's

1100
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: like supports him, like I read about World War two,

1101
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:06,280
Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean I'm in too hitler.

1102
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't even think I think they were

1103
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 2: just using that as a way to label her, you

1104
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 2: know what I mean, just to say she's basically throwaway.

1105
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 2: It's just a different way to say she's trash. Which

1106
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 2: is the bullshit part. Here's a bigger bullshit part. Crutchley's

1107
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 2: wife testified I was wondering where she was, Well, here

1108
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 2: she is, and here's what she had to say. She says,

1109
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 2: this crime is nothing more than S and M that

1110
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 2: got out of hand and they ended up bringing in

1111
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:37,720
Speaker 2: he'd stacks of three by five cards of different women's

1112
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 2: names and the S and M and bondage like sex

1113
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 2: play that they liked to engage in, oh, because he

1114
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:48,319
Speaker 2: was apparently did it all the time, and many of

1115
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 2: the people who had been sexual partners with him were

1116
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:54,319
Speaker 2: testified that they got into it because they were into

1117
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 2: S and M. And then he would not respond to

1118
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 2: the safe word and he ended up he would end

1119
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 2: up raping them or attacking them in a way. But

1120
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 2: they felt like they couldn't do anything about it, right

1121
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 2: because it started out consensual, right, and then turned to

1122
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:08,879
Speaker 2: rape and there was nothing they could do, so they

1123
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 2: you know, that's kind of an amazing thing, is like

1124
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,400
Speaker 2: that to be in a world like that, where it

1125
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 2: is actually all about this kind of the consensual agreement

1126
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 2: and the like it's an act of faith almost, And

1127
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 2: then the only thing they can do is that when

1128
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 2: it turns out he's a serial killer vampire, they can

1129
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 2: be like that happened to me.

1130
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 3: Too, and go to the cops.

1131
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:31,360
Speaker 1: Or I did go to the cops and they were like, wait, so.

1132
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 2: So you answered this personal line or whatever.

1133
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:34,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's like if you're a drug dealer and you

1134
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 1: get robbed. You're not going to go to the cops

1135
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:37,800
Speaker 1: and be like, I was fealing drugs and I got robbed.

1136
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, not that that's the same anyway. Yeah, anyway,

1137
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 2: So the wife comes out, she says that, and then

1138
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 2: she in reference to this nineteen year old girl being

1139
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 2: tied down to a kitchen counter, raped and having her

1140
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 2: blood drained, the wife says that this had been a

1141
00:54:56,600 --> 00:55:01,439
Speaker 2: quote gentle rape, devoid of any overt brutality. She wasn't

1142
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 2: fucking there, and that's what she is testifying in court, gentle.

1143
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 2: It's insanity is what it is. Also, after the trial,

1144
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 2: this same wife told reporters that she couldn't quite understand

1145
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 2: what the fuss was since her husband was just quote

1146
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:22,919
Speaker 2: a kinky sort of guy. Dad, dad, honey. So here's

1147
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 2: the good part, Okay, when they sentenced him. Based on

1148
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 2: Robert Wrestler's testimony at the sentencing hearing, where he says,

1149
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 2: this is absolutely an organized serial killer. We just haven't

1150
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:35,799
Speaker 2: found the bodies. We're like coming in on the back

1151
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 2: end of his run, and you know, and basically in

1152
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 2: all the profiling that he gave, the judge in this

1153
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 2: case chose to exceed the state guidelines on rape and

1154
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:50,479
Speaker 2: kidnap charges and sentenced John Crutchley to twenty five years

1155
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 2: in life to life in prison with fifty years subsequent parole. Fucking,

1156
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:59,800
Speaker 2: you did good. And then Robert Wrestler calls this after

1157
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 2: the sentencing's over and he goes to jail. Robert Wrestler's like, yeah,

1158
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:07,520
Speaker 2: he's gonna get out early on good behavior. That's how

1159
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 2: this goes. And that's exactly what happened. He served eleven years.

1160
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 1: Eleven What does twenty five to life mean?

1161
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:19,919
Speaker 2: Well, if you're a good behavior, if.

1162
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: You don't kill anyone in prison.

1163
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:23,840
Speaker 2: So he serves eleven years. He gets out in August

1164
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 2: of nineteen ninety six on good behavior, but the city

1165
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 2: officials of Malabar and both Melibar and Fairfax, Virginia are like,

1166
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:36,319
Speaker 2: you're absolutely not coming here. You can't live here, and

1167
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 2: you can't come.

1168
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 1: Here, So.

1169
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 2: He has to go. They put him in a halfway

1170
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 2: house in Orlando where he has to then live, serve

1171
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 2: out his fifty years parole, and begin to pay the

1172
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:51,719
Speaker 2: restitution that he owes. And well, the day after he's

1173
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 2: released from prison, I hope this is what I think

1174
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 2: it is, he tests positive for marijuana and is arrested.

1175
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:58,320
Speaker 2: It's not what I thought it was gonna be. No,

1176
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 2: but that's great. And because it's his third strike, the

1177
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 2: first being kidnapping, in the second being rape, pot is

1178
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:10,320
Speaker 2: his third strike, he goes back to jail for life.

1179
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 1: Shut your fucking mouth.

1180
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 2: Uh euh So, what I think happened is like the

1181
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 2: cops knew, especially because of Robert Wrestler. They're just like,

1182
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 2: this guy's going to slip through the cracks because rape

1183
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 2: isn't that big of a deal to our legal system,

1184
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 2: and so they just stayed on him. They tested him.

1185
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 2: The pot that was in his system was from a

1186
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 2: party they threw him before he left jail, So he

1187
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 2: had smoked pot in jail.

1188
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 1: What ok So? But I wonder if, like, are you

1189
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 1: on parole yet in jail?

1190
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 2: Though? No, but you're you're if it's still in your

1191
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:44,439
Speaker 2: system when you're on parolled on day one, you test

1192
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 2: positive for marijuana, it doesn't matter when it got into

1193
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 2: your system. Wow, you didn't allowed to have it in

1194
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 2: your system? Had it at your party in jail two?

1195
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 2: So he goes back, He goes back, third strike, he's

1196
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 2: in jail for life. And then in March of two

1197
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 2: thousand and two, he's found dead in his cell with

1198
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 2: a plastic bag over his head and he died asphyxiation.

1199
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:05,400
Speaker 3: Wow, but we don't know if it's suicide or not.

1200
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 2: But of note, and I think this is also this

1201
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,720
Speaker 2: is a fascinating part where I wish I was better

1202
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 2: at research. I wish I took more time, and I

1203
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 2: wish there was like I didn't really find that many

1204
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,479
Speaker 2: that many articles about this in particular, but I would

1205
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 2: love to know. When he was arrested, he was found

1206
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 2: to be in possession of a great deal of highly

1207
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 2: classified information about naval weaponry and communication, but unnamed federal

1208
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 2: agencies other than the FBI considered opening an espionage case

1209
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 2: against him, and his employer, Harris Corporation, was involved not

1210
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 2: only with NASA research and launch facilities at Cape Canaveral,

1211
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 2: but also with other naval contractors and subcontracts.

1212
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 1: So he was stealing information and that's why I got

1213
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 1: fired initially, and sharing it with fucking Russians.

1214
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 2: They don't know. Probably you just rewrote that ending. Well,

1215
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 2: I mean what it is is we know that he

1216
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:05,200
Speaker 2: is a thief, aside from all these other ways that

1217
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 2: he's a criminal. He has no problem stealing shit from

1218
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 2: these and he is. He was a very very intelligent

1219
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 2: and very successful like computer engineers.

1220
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 1: Engineers are not stupid people. No, over across the board.

1221
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 2: No, So that's why they were you know. Russeller was saying,

1222
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 2: there's many bodies that are his responsibility that we just

1223
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 2: haven't found because he's so organized and he's been doing

1224
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 2: this so long and his back then, when you moved

1225
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 2: around a lot, there was no way to trace anybody

1226
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 2: or anything. Also, in nineteen eighty nine, crutch Lee's former

1227
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 2: lawyer stated that he that Krushley was prepared to confess

1228
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 2: to at least three murders and lead police to the

1229
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 2: burial sites, but that negotiations between Crutchley and the prosecutors

1230
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 2: fell through, so he just didn't do it. What happened,

1231
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:00,560
Speaker 2: it was like he wanted too much. I don't know.

1232
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 2: That's another thing that's fascinating.

1233
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so they think I think that the thing

1234
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 1: on murder Pedia has victims like zero to thirty plus

1235
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 1: in terms of murder victims. They just they could associate

1236
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 1: him in all these places that he's lived with girls

1237
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 1: just disappearing, But they don't know for sure, dude. That's

1238
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 1: and even if it's like, okay, a few of them

1239
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 1: wish someone were murdered by someone else, that's still an

1240
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:31,840
Speaker 1: insane amount.

1241
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 3: It's not going to be half, it's going to be

1242
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:35,440
Speaker 3: at least you know.

1243
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, shit, dude. So to say his name again, John Crutchley,

1244
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 1: the vampire rapist.

1245
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I had never heard of that one.

1246
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 2: Isn't that nuts? Yeah?

1247
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great one. I thought he was going

1248
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:52,520
Speaker 1: to get stabbed at death in prison. Oh, I thought

1249
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:53,240
Speaker 1: what was going to happen?

1250
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I don't know. Maybe he uh, maybe

1251
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 2: he immediately like when he was in high school, used

1252
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 2: to fix people's stare for money. Oh no, yeah, so

1253
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:04,439
Speaker 2: maybe he just was one of those people that used

1254
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 2: all of his like his abilities for other people.

1255
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:13,920
Speaker 1: Well, I can't imagine prison inmates throw just everyone a

1256
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 1: goodbye party with pot, you know what I mean? Like,

1257
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 1: that's not for the guy, they not. Everyone gets a

1258
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 1: cake and weed, Yeah, for their goodbye.

1259
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 2: Yes, he claimed that they blew the pot in his face.

1260
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 2: It was not his fault.

1261
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:31,920
Speaker 1: Yes, my cat says that to remember knowing people who

1262
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 1: did that to their pets.

1263
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:35,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the creepiest thing. Of all time horrible? What's

1264
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 2: wrong with?

1265
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:43,920
Speaker 1: Oh he likes and we're back, Karen, any updates on

1266
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:44,760
Speaker 1: this awful case.

1267
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:49,400
Speaker 2: Yes, so, John Crutchley is suspected of being responsible for

1268
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 2: up to thirty murders, but there's never been enough of

1269
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 2: a concrete connection to those to charge him in those

1270
01:01:56,520 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 2: additional cases. Robert Wrestler, the great FBI feiler, died in

1271
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:05,240
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen, and the role of Bill Tench on mind Hunter,

1272
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 2: the Netflix series played by Holt mclaney, is based on

1273
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 2: Robert Wrestler. So it's kind of cool, like he has

1274
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 2: a very legitimate, you know, kind of like a way

1275
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 2: to acknowledge and stop a certain type of super criminal,

1276
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:26,960
Speaker 2: like a hyper criminal that nobody really had their minds

1277
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:29,800
Speaker 2: wrapped around when he first started working on it, and

1278
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:33,200
Speaker 2: to groundbreak in a way that's like, yeah, these aren't

1279
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 2: people that are going to be rehabilitated the peasing with

1280
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:39,480
Speaker 2: in any way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a little different.

1281
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 2: It's amazing. Yeah, And that's it. So let's get into

1282
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:54,120
Speaker 2: Georgia's story about Janine Jones. Today.

1283
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:56,760
Speaker 1: I have an angel of death, so I've been looking

1284
01:02:56,800 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 1: up the specific angel of death for a couple of

1285
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 1: weeks now, like on a off if I want to

1286
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 1: do him, and it's just kind of So yesterday I

1287
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:08,920
Speaker 1: was at like a little Memorial Day gathering and someone

1288
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:11,640
Speaker 1: brought this one up that I'd never heard of, and

1289
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:15,560
Speaker 1: it's some news like today, and so I looked it

1290
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 1: up and I'm like, this is perfect. So this is

1291
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 1: Janine Jones.

1292
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:21,480
Speaker 3: Do you know her?

1293
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1294
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:26,000
Speaker 1: She's the angel of Death. So Janine, which everyone I

1295
01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:29,040
Speaker 1: don't know, if everyone knows this is a nurse or

1296
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 1: doctor or some kind of medical professional who kills their patients. Yeah, okay.

1297
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:40,560
Speaker 1: So Janine Jones was born July thirteenth, nineteen fifty. She

1298
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:44,920
Speaker 1: grew up in northwest San Antonio. She was adopted by

1299
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 1: a nightclub owner and he owned the kit Kat Swim Club, which, like,

1300
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 1: you know, is the best place to be swim club?

1301
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:53,160
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1302
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, a nighttime swimming club.

1303
01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's anything to even do with swimming.

1304
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 2: Please, I want to.

1305
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 1: Go to this club. There's a pool in the middle.

1306
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:04,800
Speaker 1: Who knows, Yes, let's open it.

1307
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, night swimming lights off?

1308
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 1: Oh my god, shit, you know it's so creepy. What

1309
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 1: we just fucking ate a kitcat.

1310
01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:16,640
Speaker 2: No, true, Joe, such a delicious kit cat. What are

1311
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:18,640
Speaker 2: the chances from the Seattle Show if you gave it

1312
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:18,960
Speaker 2: to us?

1313
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:21,160
Speaker 1: No? Oh, and they were they but they knew you

1314
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 1: love Canadian kitkats, so they came, which are legit better?

1315
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 2: It's so much better?

1316
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 3: Okay.

1317
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:31,040
Speaker 1: So he her father managed the club and her adopted

1318
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:33,919
Speaker 1: mother Gladys fun records at the turntable. So they sound

1319
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 1: like a fucking fun time awesome couple.

1320
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:37,480
Speaker 2: Was this in the seventies?

1321
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 1: This was in and probably fifties, sixties, seventies, so somewhere

1322
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 1: around that doesn't say her.

1323
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 2: Mom's a DJ and or dad's the club owner.

1324
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so like I think it's as a kid,

1325
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:48,040
Speaker 1: So it was probably in the sixties. Like they sound

1326
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 1: fucking tits. Yeah, why aren't you cool? They adopt four kids.

1327
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:56,840
Speaker 1: They sound awesome. One of the brothers died of cancer

1328
01:04:56,920 --> 01:04:59,560
Speaker 1: and another was killed by the explosion of a bomb

1329
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 1: he had made when they were young. Oh no, yeah,

1330
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:06,440
Speaker 1: So Janine worked as a beautritian and then she attended

1331
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 1: night nursing school in the late seventies. She was super smart.

1332
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 1: She scored more than two hundred points above the passing

1333
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 1: grade on her licensing exam, on her nursing exam. Shit,

1334
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:20,640
Speaker 1: And so after school she'd been working as a licensed

1335
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:26,000
Speaker 1: vocational nurse at Bexar County Hospital in San Antonio, which

1336
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 1: a licensed nurse is like not an RN, right.

1337
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 2: It's I think it's a step below. Yeah, but I

1338
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:32,680
Speaker 2: could be wrong.

1339
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:34,480
Speaker 1: No, you're right, because they kept talking about that, so

1340
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:35,160
Speaker 1: I think you're correct.

1341
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:37,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, RN is like the thing. My mom was an RN,

1342
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:40,920
Speaker 2: so she's a real judgie about other medical assistants and

1343
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:43,120
Speaker 2: stuff like that. Or she would get very offended when

1344
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 2: people only had medical.

1345
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:46,360
Speaker 1: Assistance and non nurse right, or they assumed she wasn't

1346
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:48,760
Speaker 1: an RN, right, So very.

1347
01:05:48,560 --> 01:05:49,800
Speaker 2: Few people ever did that though.

1348
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:52,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, she had a real RN feel about Yeah, well

1349
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 1: I think this chick did too, because a lot of

1350
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 1: people thought she was. But she was put in the

1351
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 1: eight bed pediatric intensive care unit and the RNs basically

1352
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:03,240
Speaker 1: said they were babysitters, which.

1353
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:04,600
Speaker 3: Is like and she was just like fuck that.

1354
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:09,480
Speaker 1: She knew a lot about anatomy and all these smart things.

1355
01:06:11,080 --> 01:06:15,000
Speaker 1: So Bexar County would send its critically ill children there

1356
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:17,560
Speaker 1: when they couldn't afford a private hospital, so they basically

1357
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:19,480
Speaker 1: didn't have insurance, and they were like, you're off to

1358
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:22,560
Speaker 1: this place. Oh no, yeah, which is just like, let's

1359
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 1: talk about healthcare, man, let's talk about it for three hours.

1360
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:31,200
Speaker 2: Let's get into it right now, let's solve it. Yeah.

1361
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:35,800
Speaker 1: So, Janine worked three to eleven PM shift, and when

1362
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:39,640
Speaker 1: baby started dying on her shift regularly, the other nurses

1363
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:41,520
Speaker 1: she worked with started calling.

1364
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 3: It the death shift.

1365
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:46,480
Speaker 1: Oh shit, and the other nurses were like, what's up, supervisors,

1366
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 1: There's something going on, but they didn't want to believe.

1367
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:52,080
Speaker 1: Supers didn't want to believe that the seemingly super dedicated

1368
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:55,000
Speaker 1: nurse was hurting her patients, so they didn't even look

1369
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 1: into it.

1370
01:06:56,040 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 2: But then during it just like, I just don't want

1371
01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 2: it to be that way.

1372
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:05,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's really intense large, she can't be Yeah. So

1373
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:08,880
Speaker 1: then eventually, during a fifteen month period in nineteen eighty

1374
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:13,680
Speaker 1: one and eighty two, forty okay, wait, not not yet.

1375
01:07:13,720 --> 01:07:16,040
Speaker 1: So during a fifteen month period in eighty one and

1376
01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:19,720
Speaker 1: eighty two, forty two children died while undergoing treatment in

1377
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:23,800
Speaker 1: the pediatric unit. Thirty four of those patients died during

1378
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:26,400
Speaker 1: the three to eleven PM shifts. Oh my god, and

1379
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:32,800
Speaker 1: that we're patient like these are critically ill infants and like, yeah, children, yeah,

1380
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:36,240
Speaker 1: and she had directly cared for twenty of those children.

1381
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:41,960
Speaker 1: So the patients experienced uncontrollable bleeding, seizures, and breathing problems

1382
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:45,520
Speaker 1: that were correlated to her. So in early December of

1383
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:50,520
Speaker 1: eighty one, an infant named josh Sawyer Joshua Sawyer goes

1384
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:54,200
Speaker 1: to the Pediatric ICEEU after a fire destroyed his family's home.

1385
01:07:54,640 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 1: So he's an infant. He was suffering from smoke inhalationian

1386
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:01,520
Speaker 1: and he's suffering seizures and hardiac arrest. When he gets there,

1387
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:04,600
Speaker 1: he's treated with lantin dilantin.

1388
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:05,320
Speaker 2: That's my medicine.

1389
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 3: That's a seaz your medication, right, Oh my god, I.

1390
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 2: Was legitimately excited to hear.

1391
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:14,240
Speaker 1: Mind was sounded sarcastic, but I was like, oh my god, No,

1392
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:15,680
Speaker 1: that's no, I'm excited for you.

1393
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:17,200
Speaker 2: That's mine. Thank you me too.

1394
01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:19,519
Speaker 1: Do you also take fen of barbadoll phoena barbitol.

1395
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:22,800
Speaker 2: No, okay, it's not like, okay, that's old kind of yeah.

1396
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:24,120
Speaker 2: Mine's a little bit old too.

1397
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:25,720
Speaker 1: They want me to not take it anymore, but it's

1398
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:29,800
Speaker 1: the only thing that controls my seasures. Really, hmm. Wonder

1399
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:33,080
Speaker 1: if it changes, like like when you change ages and

1400
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:36,120
Speaker 1: you get used. You know, probably the brain is such

1401
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:37,960
Speaker 1: a mystery, but it can't be fun to be like,

1402
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:41,080
Speaker 1: let's try this one now. In the same way with anidepressants,

1403
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:43,360
Speaker 1: it's like, no, please, don't put me on a new one.

1404
01:08:43,360 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 1: I know it's going to be months of fucking uh

1405
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:47,360
Speaker 1: trial and error.

1406
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:50,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, and mine My trial and error was I would

1407
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:52,720
Speaker 2: have half seizures and spin in a circle like a

1408
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:54,160
Speaker 2: dog that's about to take a nap.

1409
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:57,160
Speaker 1: Care. I did it on stage a couple of times,

1410
01:08:57,200 --> 01:08:59,879
Speaker 1: and you had to lay down right yep, because.

1411
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:03,200
Speaker 2: I be turning in like looking I would. It was

1412
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:04,960
Speaker 2: like I was needed to look over my shoulder. Oh

1413
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:08,439
Speaker 2: I want to cry for like fifteen seconds. Oh my god,

1414
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:12,760
Speaker 2: he's fucking insane. Maybe I've been through the mill you

1415
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:16,479
Speaker 2: really have. That's that makes me so sad. I love

1416
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:19,360
Speaker 2: that I am. No matter what the scenario, we could

1417
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:22,479
Speaker 2: be talking about children being murdered, I can still make

1418
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:23,000
Speaker 2: it about me.

1419
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:26,479
Speaker 1: And that's what this podcast is. Isn't it my favorite

1420
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:30,840
Speaker 1: making it about me moment? My favorite meater? I don't know.

1421
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:35,200
Speaker 2: Sorry, Umm no, that's good.

1422
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:41,920
Speaker 1: Anyways, back to this infant. So he's on by lantern

1423
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:44,800
Speaker 1: and phenobarbital, and by his fourth day at the ICU,

1424
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:47,720
Speaker 1: the seizures had stopped and he was breathing on his own.

1425
01:09:48,160 --> 01:09:51,280
Speaker 1: But his mother, Connie weeks at the urging of a friend.

1426
01:09:51,400 --> 01:09:53,680
Speaker 1: So she'd been bedside this whole fucking time, freaking out

1427
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:55,439
Speaker 1: after her entire house burned down, and she has having

1428
01:09:55,479 --> 01:09:59,280
Speaker 1: a fucking seizure, no panic attack, baby, friend is like,

1429
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:01,799
Speaker 1: get out of here. She goes home to take a shower,

1430
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:04,960
Speaker 1: change her clothes, like be normal, and also goes to

1431
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:08,320
Speaker 1: see a movie, which is like they want her to

1432
01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:12,519
Speaker 1: be distracted, yes, and relax right, which seems hard. I mean,

1433
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:17,200
Speaker 1: so in the theater watching the movie, the usher finds

1434
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:19,439
Speaker 1: her no and is like, they meet you at the

1435
01:10:19,439 --> 01:10:24,040
Speaker 1: hospital immediately, because when she leapt he was like, probably stable, right,

1436
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:28,719
Speaker 1: Jesus Man. So Joshua's heart had begun racing a few

1437
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:33,800
Speaker 1: hours after after Janine took over his care that day.

1438
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:36,960
Speaker 1: Doctors weren't able to help him, and he died the

1439
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 1: following day after suffering two more cardiac arrests. She was

1440
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:45,680
Speaker 1: also on duty at the time. Wait, she was on

1441
01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:47,920
Speaker 1: duty again, so like the next day at the time

1442
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:51,040
Speaker 1: of the death as well, and blood tests done between

1443
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:56,320
Speaker 1: his cardiac episodes that overlooked showed more than three times

1444
01:10:56,320 --> 01:11:01,360
Speaker 1: the therapeutic level of dilantin in his system times. So

1445
01:11:01,479 --> 01:11:05,200
Speaker 1: the hospital started private searches finally to determine if Gene

1446
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:08,040
Speaker 1: which I think she was called Gene, also was killing patients. So,

1447
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:11,800
Speaker 1: between May and December of eighty one, the last of

1448
01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:15,599
Speaker 1: the hospital's internal inquiries found ten children in the ICU

1449
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:20,519
Speaker 1: had died after quote sudden and unexplained complications. In all

1450
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:24,120
Speaker 1: ten cases, Jeanine Jones was present at the child's bedside

1451
01:11:24,160 --> 01:11:28,080
Speaker 1: during what the report gently terms the final events. Ough

1452
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:32,280
Speaker 1: so instead of okay, But the hospital was in the

1453
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:35,320
Speaker 1: middle of a public relations campaign designed to make over

1454
01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:37,960
Speaker 1: its image, and so it didn't tell the police of

1455
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:42,640
Speaker 1: the findings. Oh uh huh, which were that near the findings,

1456
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:46,880
Speaker 1: children were twenty five point five times more likely to

1457
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:50,639
Speaker 1: suffer a medical emergency and ten point seven times more

1458
01:11:50,720 --> 01:11:56,360
Speaker 1: likely to die during her shift. Fuck yeah, tell somebody, dude.

1459
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:00,679
Speaker 1: Alert the fucking media. Actually, I feel like the media

1460
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:02,040
Speaker 1: is a great place to turn when no one will

1461
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:03,639
Speaker 1: fucking listen to you, for sure, you know.

1462
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:09,240
Speaker 2: Especially independently, right owned a Rolling Stone if you will.

1463
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:12,080
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's that's the end of Firestarter,

1464
01:12:12,840 --> 01:12:15,080
Speaker 2: when they're like running, running, running from the government and

1465
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:17,120
Speaker 2: the black ops and the you know men in black

1466
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:20,679
Speaker 2: and all that, and they finally like the dad is killed. Anyway,

1467
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:22,160
Speaker 2: I haven't seen it, so I read it.

1468
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:24,960
Speaker 1: I read it when I was like thirteen. I was obsessed. Yeah. Yeah.

1469
01:12:25,439 --> 01:12:27,240
Speaker 2: They gave me nightmares when I read it, and I

1470
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:29,080
Speaker 2: was like, probably the same age as you. But at

1471
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:32,000
Speaker 2: the very end, like they put the story of all

1472
01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:34,040
Speaker 2: of it into an envelope and drop it off at

1473
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:34,799
Speaker 2: Rolling Stone.

1474
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:36,280
Speaker 3: That's the way to do it.

1475
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:38,400
Speaker 1: It made me so excited when I got okay an

1476
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:40,240
Speaker 1: that's when I was watching The Keepers. I was like,

1477
01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:42,240
Speaker 1: you know, they start talking to a journalist and it's like,

1478
01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:44,679
Speaker 1: no one will listen to you. Bring all your evidence

1479
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:47,240
Speaker 1: to like some badass investigative journalists.

1480
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:49,400
Speaker 2: How about that fucking journalist. By the way, I love

1481
01:12:49,479 --> 01:12:52,280
Speaker 2: that man so much from The Keepers. He is a genius.

1482
01:12:52,400 --> 01:12:53,519
Speaker 1: They are so important.

1483
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:56,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're amazing, and there's a resurgence of them now

1484
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 2: that we all realize that journalism is very important.

1485
01:12:59,600 --> 01:12:59,880
Speaker 1: Oops.

1486
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:01,519
Speaker 2: You need them, yes badly.

1487
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:04,519
Speaker 3: So instead of letting everyone know.

1488
01:13:05,160 --> 01:13:08,840
Speaker 1: In March of eighty two, they're all like, all right,

1489
01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:10,519
Speaker 1: you know what we're going to do instead of telling

1490
01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:13,240
Speaker 1: anyone about Janine, We're going to take all of those

1491
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:16,960
Speaker 1: nurses that are on the ICU and upgrade them to

1492
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:19,599
Speaker 1: nursing staff. So they all get the fuck out of there,

1493
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:22,960
Speaker 1: all right. They take all of them. They say they're

1494
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:26,080
Speaker 1: upgrading to nursing staffs to only be registered nurses in

1495
01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:28,880
Speaker 1: that section, and they kick all of them out. So

1496
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:32,040
Speaker 1: all the nurses who were there get kicked the fuck out. Yeah,

1497
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:34,400
Speaker 1: they offer them jobs and other parts of it, but

1498
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:36,160
Speaker 1: this is the way to to.

1499
01:13:36,360 --> 01:13:37,120
Speaker 3: Just not fire her.

1500
01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:42,160
Speaker 1: And all of those nurses, including Janine, were given good recommendations,

1501
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:45,559
Speaker 1: giving them no proof that it was her. Well, they

1502
01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:47,759
Speaker 1: went through this whole thing, and I think they did,

1503
01:13:48,040 --> 01:13:49,519
Speaker 1: but they were just like, didn't want to have a

1504
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:50,040
Speaker 1: pr thing.

1505
01:13:50,160 --> 01:13:52,759
Speaker 2: This is very much how the Catholic Church would have acted.

1506
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:55,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, just move them around and move them around,

1507
01:13:56,080 --> 01:13:58,080
Speaker 1: put them somewhere that they're not around children anymore.

1508
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:01,240
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, it's somebody else's problem, yeah, okay.

1509
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:05,680
Speaker 1: In her recommendation letter, she was described as loyal, dependable,

1510
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:09,680
Speaker 1: and trustworthy. Yeah. So five months later, she takes a

1511
01:14:09,760 --> 01:14:15,360
Speaker 1: job with a pediatrician, doctor Kathleen Holland in Kerrville, Caraville,

1512
01:14:15,360 --> 01:14:18,880
Speaker 1: probably Currville, because this bill k E r r v

1513
01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:22,760
Speaker 1: I l E Curville. Yeah, this is the part in

1514
01:14:22,800 --> 01:14:24,680
Speaker 1: the live shows where they would start screaming at us,

1515
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:26,920
Speaker 1: all in us and we wouldn't understand a single fucking word.

1516
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:34,720
Speaker 1: So in a period of thirty one days as she's

1517
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:38,120
Speaker 1: working there seven patients in eight separate medical emergencies.

1518
01:14:38,160 --> 01:14:40,240
Speaker 2: How to be taken to the hospital in a month?

1519
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:44,320
Speaker 1: Huh Yeah, yeah, because here's the thing.

1520
01:14:44,560 --> 01:14:49,479
Speaker 2: It's such an obsession for I'm assuming she she knows,

1521
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:52,479
Speaker 2: like this is a way smaller like playing field, you'll

1522
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:52,920
Speaker 2: it'll be so.

1523
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:56,600
Speaker 1: Much more obviously, does it anyway, she can't not do it? Yeah,

1524
01:14:56,640 --> 01:14:58,559
Speaker 1: it's so crazy. Well, you know, is it the thing

1525
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:00,519
Speaker 1: of like what is the thing? Does she want to

1526
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:03,840
Speaker 1: look like a hero? Is she does she have? Yeah,

1527
01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:05,599
Speaker 1: she wants to save the day. It seems like a lot,

1528
01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:07,320
Speaker 1: which is a lot of the reason they do that.

1529
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 1: Most people do that.

1530
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:10,360
Speaker 2: I believe that's what it is. It's like they it's

1531
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:12,639
Speaker 2: a right, it's so that.

1532
01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:15,160
Speaker 1: They were writt naming some things. It's that it's putting

1533
01:15:15,200 --> 01:15:17,040
Speaker 1: the quote putting them out of their misery when it's

1534
01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:20,160
Speaker 1: like older people, which isn't true because this other dude

1535
01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:22,320
Speaker 1: I was looking up just killed like people who came

1536
01:15:22,360 --> 01:15:23,840
Speaker 1: in for like a broken arm or some shit.

1537
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:25,719
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't believe the putting and your misery because

1538
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:28,760
Speaker 2: I did that British doctor I can't remember. But he

1539
01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:30,320
Speaker 2: did the same thing, and it was people who were

1540
01:15:30,360 --> 01:15:32,479
Speaker 2: not in misery, right, there was nothing wrong with them.

1541
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:35,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, he just liked killing people. He liked the control.

1542
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:39,240
Speaker 1: And actually you brought up misery and firestarter. That's weird.

1543
01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:41,840
Speaker 1: It's said that this one Jeanine is one of the

1544
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:47,120
Speaker 1: what Stephen King wrote misery when he wrote Anny Bates.

1545
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:51,200
Speaker 2: No, Kathy Bates is the actress Annie. I can't remember

1546
01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:51,799
Speaker 2: the character.

1547
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:53,240
Speaker 1: That's one of my favorite movies.

1548
01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:53,840
Speaker 2: It's so good.

1549
01:15:53,880 --> 01:15:54,439
Speaker 3: We need to watch.

1550
01:15:54,439 --> 01:15:57,800
Speaker 1: It's so horrifying. It's she's the scariest fucking thing in

1551
01:15:57,800 --> 01:15:58,520
Speaker 1: the world.

1552
01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:01,040
Speaker 2: Does she want an Emmy oscar? Whatever?

1553
01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:05,840
Speaker 1: She shot one book man, she should have swept, she

1554
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:06,960
Speaker 1: should have gotten it.

1555
01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:10,120
Speaker 2: What is it called the glad or its no, what's not?

1556
01:16:10,360 --> 01:16:12,240
Speaker 1: I didn't mean you know what I mean? Listen the

1557
01:16:12,320 --> 01:16:14,920
Speaker 1: Tony's Yeah, but what's it called in thirty Rock? When

1558
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:17,320
Speaker 1: you went all of them, you got yeah the egoch

1559
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 1: Bubba's thirty Rock. Well, this is like, bitch, get your

1560
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:27,840
Speaker 1: shit together, mom, okay, okay, takes a job thirty one days,

1561
01:16:27,880 --> 01:16:32,240
Speaker 1: seven patients. The doctor in the office then discovered puncture

1562
01:16:32,240 --> 01:16:36,559
Speaker 1: marks in a bottle of here we go psychon cool

1563
01:16:36,720 --> 01:16:43,559
Speaker 1: psychonal chlorine, cyconal chlorine, second in the drug storage where

1564
01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:45,960
Speaker 1: only she and Jones had access and contents of the

1565
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:49,400
Speaker 1: apparently full bottle. Bottle was supposed to be full, later

1566
01:16:49,439 --> 01:16:52,080
Speaker 1: found to be diluted. So basically, she's a teenager taking

1567
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:55,600
Speaker 1: the vodka bottle and fucking out of the freezer. Is

1568
01:16:55,640 --> 01:16:58,919
Speaker 1: this you? There's some story of like that. Some roommate

1569
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:02,799
Speaker 1: was like some girl at her roommate took her vodka

1570
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:06,240
Speaker 1: bottle that fell out of the fridge and broke No, no, no,

1571
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:10,760
Speaker 1: the vodka was frozen, which it doesn't do, which means

1572
01:17:10,760 --> 01:17:11,759
Speaker 1: it was always water.

1573
01:17:11,680 --> 01:17:12,280
Speaker 2: At that point.

1574
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:17,040
Speaker 4: There, it is something ridiculous. Yeah, that's the bust. Yeah,

1575
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:22,040
Speaker 4: So basically she's a monster. So the drug, which I

1576
01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:25,599
Speaker 4: refuse to say again, is a powerful paralytic that causes

1577
01:17:25,720 --> 01:17:27,559
Speaker 4: temporary paralysis of all.

1578
01:17:27,479 --> 01:17:30,400
Speaker 3: Skeletal muscles as well as those that.

1579
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:34,120
Speaker 1: Control breathing, so a patient can't breathe well under the influence,

1580
01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:38,120
Speaker 1: and small children cardiac arrest is the ultimate result due

1581
01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:39,200
Speaker 1: to lack of respiration.

1582
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:41,480
Speaker 3: Huh.

1583
01:17:41,520 --> 01:17:45,200
Speaker 1: One of those children at this location was Chelsea McClelland.

1584
01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:47,760
Speaker 1: She died on September seventeenth, nineteen eighty two. She was

1585
01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:50,919
Speaker 1: a fifteen month old. She went into a respiratory failure

1586
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:55,880
Speaker 1: after Jones injected her. Was supposed to be routine immunizations.

1587
01:17:56,240 --> 01:17:58,559
Speaker 1: So you go in to get like cholera, whatever the

1588
01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:02,120
Speaker 1: fuck they immune you for, and chuck. She fucking dies.

1589
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:07,719
Speaker 1: A powerful it's usually used as general anesthesia for surgical patients.

1590
01:18:08,400 --> 01:18:12,200
Speaker 1: So she's charged with Chelsea's murder, but the prosecutors decided

1591
01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:14,120
Speaker 1: not to file charges against her in the death of

1592
01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:17,000
Speaker 1: any of the children she was expected of killing because

1593
01:18:17,240 --> 01:18:19,400
Speaker 1: they thought that the ninety nine year sentence that she

1594
01:18:19,479 --> 01:18:22,280
Speaker 1: got she was found guilty nine nine year sents plus.

1595
01:18:22,280 --> 01:18:25,519
Speaker 1: She also got a sixty year sentence for giving a

1596
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:28,880
Speaker 1: four week old Rolando Santos a large dose of the

1597
01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:33,559
Speaker 1: blood thinner heparin, but he survived. But she had another

1598
01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:35,760
Speaker 1: sixty years and in nineteen eighty four, and they were like, well,

1599
01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:37,400
Speaker 1: she'll never get out, so we don't really need to

1600
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:40,479
Speaker 1: prosecute her for anymore people. She'll be in jail for

1601
01:18:40,479 --> 01:18:43,439
Speaker 1: the rest of her life, right, yeah, nope, no, no,

1602
01:18:44,200 --> 01:18:48,400
Speaker 1: all right, So today's what the thirtieth We decided.

1603
01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:50,040
Speaker 2: Today is the thirtieth. Okay, that's the truth.

1604
01:18:52,160 --> 01:18:54,439
Speaker 1: So on oh yeah, I mean I guess you know

1605
01:18:54,479 --> 01:18:54,760
Speaker 1: what I mean.

1606
01:18:55,360 --> 01:18:56,960
Speaker 2: We decide now, we decide.

1607
01:18:56,960 --> 01:19:00,320
Speaker 1: No, we didn't tell you on May twenty fifth of

1608
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:03,040
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, so a year from basically a couple days ago.

1609
01:19:03,640 --> 01:19:06,599
Speaker 1: She's sixty six years old. She's supposed to be eligible.

1610
01:19:06,680 --> 01:19:10,519
Speaker 1: She's been eligible for poaroles since eighty nine, but is

1611
01:19:10,920 --> 01:19:14,200
Speaker 1: repeatedly denied because she's a monster. But she's going. She

1612
01:19:14,320 --> 01:19:17,360
Speaker 1: was said to be released from prison after serving one

1613
01:19:17,439 --> 01:19:18,360
Speaker 1: third of her sentence.

1614
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:19,280
Speaker 3: So in a year.

1615
01:19:20,120 --> 01:19:23,599
Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, and it's because we're here we go again

1616
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:28,920
Speaker 1: with good behavior Texas had. Texas created a law called

1617
01:19:29,000 --> 01:19:32,120
Speaker 1: good Time. The Good Time Law, which is not a

1618
01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:35,920
Speaker 1: good time probably fort the Victims, which was created to

1619
01:19:35,960 --> 01:19:40,800
Speaker 1: combat prison overcrowding, allows inmates convicted of a violent of

1620
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:44,080
Speaker 1: violent crimes between seventy seven and eighty seven to be

1621
01:19:44,120 --> 01:19:47,800
Speaker 1: released if they have a record of good behavior, Like

1622
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:50,400
Speaker 1: let the dude who got caught with some pot go.

1623
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:53,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just it, you know, it's that's just it.

1624
01:19:53,880 --> 01:19:55,880
Speaker 1: You had meth in your pocket that you were using.

1625
01:19:55,920 --> 01:19:57,360
Speaker 1: It wasn't enough to sell.

1626
01:19:57,560 --> 01:20:02,719
Speaker 2: Who fucked? Let them out? Yeah? Who cares? Right compared

1627
01:20:02,760 --> 01:20:07,840
Speaker 2: to the people who clearly have a mental illness compulsion

1628
01:20:08,280 --> 01:20:13,799
Speaker 2: to what do you exact bodily harm on their fellow

1629
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:14,599
Speaker 2: man who have.

1630
01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:18,439
Speaker 1: No empathetic tendencies whatsoever. Who if you're I'm sorry, but

1631
01:20:18,479 --> 01:20:20,559
Speaker 1: if you're over the age of twenty one and you

1632
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:25,160
Speaker 1: commit murder, you know you've thought this through in some point.

1633
01:20:25,280 --> 01:20:27,439
Speaker 3: It's you know, you're not going that. The rehab thing

1634
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:27,880
Speaker 3: is so.

1635
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:31,280
Speaker 1: Hard to think when it's people who have murdered, systematically

1636
01:20:31,400 --> 01:20:33,120
Speaker 1: murder people in cold blood.

1637
01:20:32,960 --> 01:20:38,679
Speaker 2: And systematically murdered infants. Were that you were in charge

1638
01:20:38,720 --> 01:20:41,000
Speaker 2: of that, your nurse, it's part of your I don't

1639
01:20:41,040 --> 01:20:43,920
Speaker 2: know if nurses taken oath or that, they's a part

1640
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:46,400
Speaker 2: of it. It's part of going. I'm a medical worker,

1641
01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:48,599
Speaker 2: I'm going to act like I'm going to stand in

1642
01:20:48,760 --> 01:20:52,640
Speaker 2: family member watching your child while your child is at

1643
01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:54,439
Speaker 2: the most vulnerable point it could possibly be.

1644
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:57,000
Speaker 1: It's almost Yeah, it should be worse when you agree

1645
01:20:57,400 --> 01:21:01,000
Speaker 1: or you are supposed to be taking care of someone

1646
01:21:01,439 --> 01:21:02,280
Speaker 1: or making them live.

1647
01:21:03,200 --> 01:21:07,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Because the thing is, we know she's been

1648
01:21:07,520 --> 01:21:09,880
Speaker 2: in jail safe for thirty years or whatever it is

1649
01:21:10,080 --> 01:21:12,879
Speaker 2: she gets out of jail, that thing that she has

1650
01:21:13,360 --> 01:21:16,880
Speaker 2: has in probably no way been addressed of I need

1651
01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:21,160
Speaker 2: to be. It's just her life is dedicated to making

1652
01:21:21,400 --> 01:21:24,720
Speaker 2: just like serial killers, they kill, that's what they do.

1653
01:21:24,840 --> 01:21:25,720
Speaker 2: They have to do it.

1654
01:21:25,760 --> 01:21:28,400
Speaker 1: And then it's that charm. You have to be a

1655
01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:31,160
Speaker 1: charming manipulator to get away with this thing for so

1656
01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:34,000
Speaker 1: long that I don't care how much therapy you've had

1657
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:37,320
Speaker 1: in prison. You're a charming manipulator. You're not going to

1658
01:21:37,560 --> 01:21:40,240
Speaker 1: fucking exercise that out of someone, right, I don't care

1659
01:21:40,240 --> 01:21:41,479
Speaker 1: how good of a therapist you are.

1660
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:44,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I don't care, And I don't care.

1661
01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:47,200
Speaker 1: Maybe you're better, maybe you're not like that anymore. You

1662
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:50,080
Speaker 1: fucking still have to pay for the crime you committed. Yeah,

1663
01:21:50,080 --> 01:21:51,840
Speaker 1: I don't care if you're fucking saint well.

1664
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:54,040
Speaker 2: And also it's the thing of trying to get things

1665
01:21:54,160 --> 01:21:58,160
Speaker 2: because there's so much backlog in this system. They're just

1666
01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:01,080
Speaker 2: trying to get things moved through. But it's like, you know,

1667
01:22:01,160 --> 01:22:06,200
Speaker 2: and hopefully this when like they come upon this, for

1668
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:09,400
Speaker 2: like the parole board or whatever, that's taken into consideration.

1669
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:12,320
Speaker 2: This isn't a person that just like accidentally hit somebody

1670
01:22:12,360 --> 01:22:14,559
Speaker 2: with her car or intentionally hit somebody with her car

1671
01:22:14,600 --> 01:22:17,600
Speaker 2: in a crime of passion, well, a person who's systematically

1672
01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:19,880
Speaker 2: murdered babies.

1673
01:22:19,960 --> 01:22:23,040
Speaker 1: It's also that thing of like, uh yeah, So the

1674
01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:26,559
Speaker 1: parole board said no because they looked at the evidence

1675
01:22:26,640 --> 01:22:30,040
Speaker 1: and realized time and time again that she shouldn't be out.

1676
01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:33,920
Speaker 1: What is the point of our judicial system who gave

1677
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:37,120
Speaker 1: her ninety nine years for this horrible crime, if you're

1678
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:40,360
Speaker 1: just gonna override it, you know, like it makes people

1679
01:22:40,439 --> 01:22:47,719
Speaker 1: not as scared to commit crimes because it's listen, hey, listen,

1680
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:53,840
Speaker 1: listen and listen, listen. Look there we go. Da da

1681
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:58,960
Speaker 1: da da dah. Okay, So good behavior. Because because of this,

1682
01:22:59,680 --> 01:23:04,120
Speaker 1: breck Brexar County prosecutors were like, how fucking though a

1683
01:23:04,160 --> 01:23:06,559
Speaker 1: couple of years ago I think they found out about this,

1684
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:10,240
Speaker 1: they launched a secret investigation into her time as a nurse,

1685
01:23:11,160 --> 01:23:13,759
Speaker 1: and when they realized that she's going to be released.

1686
01:23:14,240 --> 01:23:18,920
Speaker 1: They believe that she may They estimate that she may

1687
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:23,560
Speaker 1: have killed as many as forty to sixty fuck suspicious

1688
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:24,719
Speaker 1: deaths under her watch.

1689
01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:30,719
Speaker 2: She killed your grammar school class of job. I'd see

1690
01:23:30,880 --> 01:23:32,000
Speaker 2: three kids in my.

1691
01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:34,040
Speaker 1: Class, Okay, So okay, I thought you meant in you

1692
01:23:34,240 --> 01:23:38,080
Speaker 1: not in your own class, but like in multiple classes.

1693
01:23:38,200 --> 01:23:40,920
Speaker 2: No, no, no, in like grammar school. I'm just thinking,

1694
01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:43,559
Speaker 2: like our sixth grade class had sixty three kids. Yeah,

1695
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:45,680
Speaker 2: it would be as if she went through and systematically

1696
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:47,599
Speaker 2: secretly poisoned every single one of them.

1697
01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:52,120
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ as babies, as babies, I'm trying to put

1698
01:23:52,160 --> 01:23:52,400
Speaker 1: out there.

1699
01:23:52,400 --> 01:23:54,559
Speaker 2: I'm to pa put a metaphor out there that only

1700
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:55,400
Speaker 2: I can relate to you.

1701
01:23:55,520 --> 01:23:57,160
Speaker 1: No, that's a good one, because I wouldn't have known

1702
01:23:57,160 --> 01:23:59,880
Speaker 1: what to do, like what to say, like they killed

1703
01:23:59,880 --> 01:24:01,799
Speaker 1: the amount of people who were at the pool yesterday.

1704
01:24:01,960 --> 01:24:03,599
Speaker 1: Like no, but that doesn't make any sense, right, You're

1705
01:24:03,640 --> 01:24:08,000
Speaker 1: right better? Yeah, okay, so on. So on May twenty fifth,

1706
01:24:08,439 --> 01:24:13,639
Speaker 1: a couple fucking days ago. So twenty seventeen, Brexar County

1707
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:16,519
Speaker 1: District's Attorney's office announced that she had been charged in

1708
01:24:16,560 --> 01:24:19,360
Speaker 1: the eighty one death of eleven month old Joshua Sawyer,

1709
01:24:19,520 --> 01:24:22,559
Speaker 1: the kid who got killed because his house burned down.

1710
01:24:23,040 --> 01:24:28,600
Speaker 1: So they went back to that poor kid and charged she.

1711
01:24:28,880 --> 01:24:32,080
Speaker 1: They charged her, so I think she's just going straight

1712
01:24:32,120 --> 01:24:33,120
Speaker 1: to the other county.

1713
01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:37,280
Speaker 2: They're just basically transferring her to another prison, and she's

1714
01:24:37,320 --> 01:24:37,880
Speaker 2: not getting out.

1715
01:24:37,920 --> 01:24:40,000
Speaker 1: So she would have gotten out and she won't. So

1716
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:48,240
Speaker 1: District Attorney Sam D. Millsap Junior, Oh, Ronnie's nephew, is

1717
01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:50,920
Speaker 1: that Well, it's a deep cut for all the middle

1718
01:24:50,960 --> 01:24:51,439
Speaker 1: aged people.

1719
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:54,439
Speaker 2: Ronnie Millsap is a country singer. Nope, Oh you.

1720
01:24:54,520 --> 01:24:57,000
Speaker 1: Told me about home, No I am Who was the

1721
01:24:57,000 --> 01:24:58,080
Speaker 1: guy that you told me about?

1722
01:24:58,120 --> 01:24:59,479
Speaker 2: Who was in Mickey Gilly?

1723
01:25:00,240 --> 01:25:03,360
Speaker 1: Yeah? Who was in the show we like call all

1724
01:25:03,439 --> 01:25:04,439
Speaker 1: Fargo mac Davis.

1725
01:25:04,479 --> 01:25:08,320
Speaker 2: Okay, that's mac Davis. But actually same school, ok, same

1726
01:25:08,479 --> 01:25:09,720
Speaker 2: like class.

1727
01:25:09,760 --> 01:25:12,760
Speaker 1: Someone some middle aged is losing his mind right now. Yeah,

1728
01:25:12,760 --> 01:25:17,080
Speaker 1: that you said that, perhaps Ronnie Millsap himself. Maybe Ronnie

1729
01:25:17,120 --> 01:25:22,559
Speaker 1: Millsap was blind. That's something we could look up. But why,

1730
01:25:23,439 --> 01:25:26,320
Speaker 1: I mean, why don't We're not worried about facts right now?

1731
01:25:26,520 --> 01:25:29,160
Speaker 2: This isn't a fucking country music podcast.

1732
01:25:29,240 --> 01:25:32,280
Speaker 1: Listen, sorry, start your own podcast about music if you

1733
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:32,880
Speaker 1: really want to know.

1734
01:25:32,920 --> 01:25:34,840
Speaker 2: There's stuff, goddamn interested in his life.

1735
01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:39,120
Speaker 1: So he this dude Millsap Junior. He's six months into

1736
01:25:39,160 --> 01:25:44,479
Speaker 1: an investigation of the county Bexar County Hospital, which is

1737
01:25:44,720 --> 01:25:51,120
Speaker 1: now called but but Nope, okay, which is now called

1738
01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:54,960
Speaker 1: University Hospital of San Antonio, and everyone's like, I went there,

1739
01:25:56,680 --> 01:25:57,840
Speaker 1: so they changed their name.

1740
01:25:57,920 --> 01:26:00,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, smart move. So he is looking.

1741
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:03,120
Speaker 1: Into why no one stopped all of these so like

1742
01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:08,639
Speaker 1: holding them accountable, thank god? Yes, Oh, he says he's

1743
01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:11,960
Speaker 1: focusing his criminal investigation not only on Jeanine, but also

1744
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:15,480
Speaker 1: on the hospital for its in actions. So josh Sawyer's

1745
01:26:15,520 --> 01:26:20,040
Speaker 1: death the sweet kid. One of the reasons they're able

1746
01:26:20,080 --> 01:26:22,160
Speaker 1: to prosecute it now and why they have such strong

1747
01:26:22,200 --> 01:26:25,840
Speaker 1: evidence is because Joshua's mother kept her son's and medical

1748
01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:29,800
Speaker 1: records for more than three decades and she said it's

1749
01:26:29,880 --> 01:26:33,400
Speaker 1: all I had left of Joshua. She said everything else

1750
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:34,599
Speaker 1: was destroyed in the fire.

1751
01:26:35,400 --> 01:26:38,719
Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm crying. I don't know why. That gets

1752
01:26:38,720 --> 01:26:42,200
Speaker 2: me so bad, so sad, it's so goddamn sad.

1753
01:26:42,360 --> 01:26:45,599
Speaker 1: She has she walks away from that hospital with nothing,

1754
01:26:46,360 --> 01:26:48,840
Speaker 1: and so she keeps these records and they probably didn't

1755
01:26:48,880 --> 01:26:51,040
Speaker 1: have them anymore, you know how those records, things go

1756
01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:58,000
Speaker 1: exactly right. And also it's just that fucking hospital put

1757
01:26:58,280 --> 01:27:02,680
Speaker 1: their own image above human life, which is the opposite

1758
01:27:02,720 --> 01:27:05,760
Speaker 1: reason to have a hospital. And it's somehow so much

1759
01:27:05,760 --> 01:27:11,080
Speaker 1: worse that it was children children. Yeah, it's almost worse.

1760
01:27:11,120 --> 01:27:13,680
Speaker 1: I mean, no one is better than the next, but

1761
01:27:13,720 --> 01:27:15,720
Speaker 1: it's so heartless.

1762
01:27:16,360 --> 01:27:19,320
Speaker 2: It's well, they just have no They couldn't even fight.

1763
01:27:19,600 --> 01:27:21,320
Speaker 2: It's not like somebody they could go, what are you,

1764
01:27:21,320 --> 01:27:23,120
Speaker 2: why are you putting that needle in my arm or anything.

1765
01:27:23,160 --> 01:27:24,080
Speaker 2: It's just like I.

1766
01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:26,479
Speaker 1: Don't see they can say I don't feel well, you know,

1767
01:27:27,120 --> 01:27:31,120
Speaker 1: it's this thing of Yeah, it could have been stopped

1768
01:27:31,120 --> 01:27:34,000
Speaker 1: at any time, had anyone taken the time to do

1769
01:27:34,040 --> 01:27:36,959
Speaker 1: their job, which is to protect the patients, not the hospital.

1770
01:27:37,000 --> 01:27:40,400
Speaker 1: It's like the people who could have investigated what was

1771
01:27:40,439 --> 01:27:42,760
Speaker 1: going on there, who worked there, it wasn't they didn't

1772
01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:43,600
Speaker 1: know in the hospital.

1773
01:27:43,920 --> 01:27:45,599
Speaker 3: It's not like they needed to worry about the image

1774
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:46,559
Speaker 3: of the hospital, right.

1775
01:27:46,600 --> 01:27:49,280
Speaker 2: And also, I mean, it's a fucking hospital. It's not

1776
01:27:49,320 --> 01:27:51,760
Speaker 2: like you just started a pr company. Yeah, people are

1777
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:55,200
Speaker 2: going to go to the hospital. They have to sell

1778
01:27:55,240 --> 01:27:58,720
Speaker 2: up a ladder. You have a blade of you know,

1779
01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:01,680
Speaker 2: a knife in your arm whatever it is. It's not

1780
01:28:01,720 --> 01:28:03,439
Speaker 2: like you're like, oh, don't go to that hospital. Well

1781
01:28:03,479 --> 01:28:04,840
Speaker 2: I did, they had some issues.

1782
01:28:04,960 --> 01:28:08,600
Speaker 1: I went to Hollywood Presbyterian because I needed help immediately

1783
01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:11,800
Speaker 1: in that place. And I want to talk shit out

1784
01:28:11,800 --> 01:28:14,400
Speaker 1: of school and on a podcast, But that's what you're doing.

1785
01:28:14,439 --> 01:28:16,400
Speaker 1: That's what I'm doing. All I'm going to say is

1786
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:17,559
Speaker 1: don't go there.

1787
01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:21,880
Speaker 2: Bad news very is that the one that's on Western.

1788
01:28:21,600 --> 01:28:26,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, Vermont Vermont on Vermont, Yeah, down by the Wendy's.

1789
01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:27,479
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, across from the Wendy's. Yeah.

1790
01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:31,320
Speaker 1: Wow, that everything is shut up, Stephen. That's what That's

1791
01:28:31,360 --> 01:28:35,000
Speaker 1: how I measure all things Wendy. How close to Wendy's. Yes,

1792
01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:38,320
Speaker 1: that's the closest one. But I knew immediately. Yes, yeah,

1793
01:28:38,439 --> 01:28:40,439
Speaker 1: see you do that too. Well.

1794
01:28:40,479 --> 01:28:41,080
Speaker 3: I've been there.

1795
01:28:41,520 --> 01:28:45,599
Speaker 2: I mean, there's nothing worse when you're in like when

1796
01:28:45,600 --> 01:28:47,479
Speaker 2: you're in a bad spot. And it's so weird because

1797
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:50,120
Speaker 2: having a nurse mom growing up when we would have

1798
01:28:50,160 --> 01:28:51,880
Speaker 2: to go was like my mom worked for Kaiser, so

1799
01:28:51,880 --> 01:28:54,679
Speaker 2: we just always go to a Kaiser. Yeah, like the

1800
01:28:54,680 --> 01:28:58,280
Speaker 2: the we never didn't have insurance, we never didn't have coverage,

1801
01:28:58,600 --> 01:29:00,840
Speaker 2: all of that stuff, and my mom used to harp

1802
01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:03,800
Speaker 2: on me when I didn't have insurance after they took

1803
01:29:04,120 --> 01:29:06,679
Speaker 2: me and my sister off there, or like your adults

1804
01:29:06,720 --> 01:29:09,160
Speaker 2: get your own, and I didn't, of course, and then

1805
01:29:09,200 --> 01:29:12,000
Speaker 2: she'd be like, you have to get insurance, and I'd

1806
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:13,920
Speaker 2: just be like, what for why? Well, then when I

1807
01:29:14,000 --> 01:29:16,280
Speaker 2: had my seizures, I didn't have insurance and I went

1808
01:29:16,320 --> 01:29:23,080
Speaker 2: to Harbor UCLA in Torrance, and it was horrifying when

1809
01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:26,320
Speaker 2: you don't want to go to a county hospital without

1810
01:29:26,360 --> 01:29:26,960
Speaker 2: your insurance.

1811
01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:31,360
Speaker 1: Well, look and listen, they're in they're poor neighborhoods. That Hollywood,

1812
01:29:31,800 --> 01:29:36,519
Speaker 1: you know, Western End, fucking Fountain is not the center

1813
01:29:36,560 --> 01:29:38,640
Speaker 1: of Beverly.

1814
01:29:38,320 --> 01:29:41,680
Speaker 2: Hills and all the bad shit that happens in that neighborhood.

1815
01:29:41,720 --> 01:29:43,640
Speaker 2: People just get done for those hospitals. It's not that

1816
01:29:43,640 --> 01:29:45,680
Speaker 2: they're bad people. It's not that the people that work

1817
01:29:45,720 --> 01:29:48,880
Speaker 2: there aren't talented. It's that they're the ones that are

1818
01:29:48,920 --> 01:29:51,080
Speaker 2: like almost like it's front line style where they're just

1819
01:29:51,080 --> 01:29:54,160
Speaker 2: seeing tons of stuff all the time. It's rough.

1820
01:29:54,280 --> 01:29:58,920
Speaker 1: Listen, Burbank Urgent Care shout out. Hey, So that's the

1821
01:29:59,040 --> 01:30:02,519
Speaker 1: story of Janine Jones. She's the angel of death. Wow,

1822
01:30:02,680 --> 01:30:05,519
Speaker 1: thank god, they fucking swooped right in, right in time

1823
01:30:05,680 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 1: and kept her off the streets because you know, like, yeah,

1824
01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:10,240
Speaker 1: they'd be like, you can't be in their children, but

1825
01:30:11,080 --> 01:30:12,360
Speaker 1: that she falls through the cracks.

1826
01:30:12,680 --> 01:30:14,720
Speaker 2: Also, then she just is going to do something. She's

1827
01:30:14,760 --> 01:30:17,880
Speaker 2: going to like start this is my theory. But she

1828
01:30:17,920 --> 01:30:20,559
Speaker 2: would then start driving for meals on wheels and suddenly

1829
01:30:20,600 --> 01:30:22,439
Speaker 2: people you know what I mean, she would she doesn't

1830
01:30:22,479 --> 01:30:25,720
Speaker 2: mean it's poison people to death. Oh my gosh, she

1831
01:30:25,760 --> 01:30:27,760
Speaker 2: would just go do it some other way, because it's

1832
01:30:27,760 --> 01:30:30,719
Speaker 2: a compulsion that hasn't been addressed I'm sure or fixed

1833
01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:31,679
Speaker 2: in her in any way.

1834
01:30:32,280 --> 01:30:34,160
Speaker 1: I wonder where it came from, because it feels like

1835
01:30:34,160 --> 01:30:38,760
Speaker 1: there's like maybe it's her brother's dying. Maybe it's when

1836
01:30:38,800 --> 01:30:41,479
Speaker 1: she is little. I mean there has to be. And

1837
01:30:41,800 --> 01:30:44,080
Speaker 1: she was married and had two children. Yeah. I got

1838
01:30:44,160 --> 01:30:46,439
Speaker 1: to mention that, like, so she had babies at one point.

1839
01:30:46,560 --> 01:30:51,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, something happened like in her life

1840
01:30:51,040 --> 01:30:56,920
Speaker 2: because aside from a mental illness obviously when it's I've

1841
01:30:56,960 --> 01:31:00,320
Speaker 2: read a lot more about less about angels of death

1842
01:31:00,360 --> 01:31:02,640
Speaker 2: because they just I find that they're so straightforward.

1843
01:31:03,000 --> 01:31:04,880
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, yeah, that's why the other one I

1844
01:31:04,960 --> 01:31:06,120
Speaker 1: was just like, I don't know if I can do that.

1845
01:31:06,160 --> 01:31:06,840
Speaker 3: It's just kind of.

1846
01:31:06,880 --> 01:31:11,240
Speaker 2: It's just plain sad. But it's interesting because it's very

1847
01:31:11,240 --> 01:31:14,600
Speaker 2: similar to the Munchausen's by proxy where and that's the

1848
01:31:14,640 --> 01:31:18,320
Speaker 2: real one, where oftentimes it's mothers poisoning their children and

1849
01:31:18,400 --> 01:31:23,080
Speaker 2: they get so much out of doctors and staff members

1850
01:31:23,120 --> 01:31:27,640
Speaker 2: and everybody worrying about them, pitying them, they become the

1851
01:31:27,640 --> 01:31:29,000
Speaker 2: focus of the attention people.

1852
01:31:29,520 --> 01:31:32,120
Speaker 1: Well. The thing too, is that she was saying that

1853
01:31:32,160 --> 01:31:35,040
Speaker 1: her first, the first patient she ever had, I see

1854
01:31:35,040 --> 01:31:38,040
Speaker 1: you as an infant who died on her watch, and

1855
01:31:38,080 --> 01:31:40,880
Speaker 1: it broke her heart. But I wonder either she killed

1856
01:31:40,880 --> 01:31:43,799
Speaker 1: that infant or the attention she got when that happened,

1857
01:31:44,200 --> 01:31:48,160
Speaker 1: having been this child's nurse at the time was so

1858
01:31:48,320 --> 01:31:51,080
Speaker 1: fulfilling that she couldn't stop because maybe, you know, she

1859
01:31:51,200 --> 01:31:53,800
Speaker 1: had just been a perfectionist before that, or maybe she

1860
01:31:53,880 --> 01:31:56,080
Speaker 1: had just you know, it's the thing of how some

1861
01:31:56,120 --> 01:32:00,880
Speaker 1: people love having the approval of people who above them.

1862
01:32:00,920 --> 01:32:03,599
Speaker 1: They're you know, so like the doctors and our ends

1863
01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:07,120
Speaker 1: were like commending her for how she dealt with it

1864
01:32:07,240 --> 01:32:11,320
Speaker 1: and comforting her, comforting her. Yeah, yeah, it's so fascinating.

1865
01:32:11,400 --> 01:32:15,040
Speaker 1: You see that horrible video, and they put a video

1866
01:32:15,080 --> 01:32:18,480
Speaker 1: camera hidden in No, don't want to well, I can't.

1867
01:32:18,360 --> 01:32:20,800
Speaker 2: Say the word slowly. No, I can stop you. I'm

1868
01:32:20,800 --> 01:32:21,479
Speaker 2: not going to say it.

1869
01:32:21,520 --> 01:32:23,360
Speaker 1: When kids survives, the kid survives.

1870
01:32:23,479 --> 01:32:25,559
Speaker 2: Is it a babysitter that abuses the child?

1871
01:32:25,680 --> 01:32:26,559
Speaker 1: No, it's fine.

1872
01:32:26,640 --> 01:32:28,679
Speaker 2: I can see. I can still see in my head

1873
01:32:28,680 --> 01:32:29,160
Speaker 2: and it's so.

1874
01:32:29,160 --> 01:32:31,400
Speaker 3: Warm, me too, And I can't watch that. Uh No,

1875
01:32:31,479 --> 01:32:31,920
Speaker 3: a father.

1876
01:32:32,720 --> 01:32:34,639
Speaker 1: They put a video camera in there because they knew

1877
01:32:34,680 --> 01:32:36,879
Speaker 1: something was going on in the hospital. In the hospital

1878
01:32:36,920 --> 01:32:39,800
Speaker 1: room where the little girl was sick, he puts his

1879
01:32:39,880 --> 01:32:42,840
Speaker 1: body on top of hers and tries to like stop

1880
01:32:42,880 --> 01:32:45,479
Speaker 1: her from breathing, and a nurse rushes in and catches

1881
01:32:45,520 --> 01:32:49,160
Speaker 1: him and he gets arrested. And because he had Munchausen's, Yeah,

1882
01:32:49,240 --> 01:32:50,479
Speaker 1: he was making herself.

1883
01:32:50,520 --> 01:32:53,519
Speaker 2: He's trying to smother her. Yeah, holy shit, I'm sorry

1884
01:32:53,600 --> 01:32:58,639
Speaker 2: you crying? No, no, no, why not? I can did

1885
01:32:58,680 --> 01:33:01,040
Speaker 2: you have? No? I used it up on that. The

1886
01:33:01,120 --> 01:33:02,680
Speaker 2: idea of that the only thing you have left of

1887
01:33:02,720 --> 01:33:04,720
Speaker 2: your child is medical records is just like.

1888
01:33:04,800 --> 01:33:09,080
Speaker 1: I know, but how triumphant for her?

1889
01:33:09,520 --> 01:33:12,320
Speaker 2: Well, thank fucking god? Yeah, because then it's.

1890
01:33:12,360 --> 01:33:15,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, half those podcasts we listen to that are

1891
01:33:15,560 --> 01:33:18,960
Speaker 1: like investigative reporting. Is them trying to get whatever basic

1892
01:33:19,000 --> 01:33:24,040
Speaker 1: medical records or crime records? Yeah, that they can't that

1893
01:33:24,120 --> 01:33:25,000
Speaker 1: no one will give them.

1894
01:33:25,160 --> 01:33:28,040
Speaker 2: That's all of the keepers. Is them going, I'm sorry,

1895
01:33:28,040 --> 01:33:30,120
Speaker 2: how do you not have these records anymore? How do

1896
01:33:30,160 --> 01:33:31,320
Speaker 2: they not exist anymore?

1897
01:33:31,320 --> 01:33:35,640
Speaker 1: There's a lot of floods and basements of police stations,

1898
01:33:35,680 --> 01:33:38,679
Speaker 1: so much flooding. There's a flooding is a what's it called?

1899
01:33:39,240 --> 01:33:43,720
Speaker 1: It's a common problem, yeah, or it's an epidemic. Yes, anyways,

1900
01:33:44,400 --> 01:33:46,599
Speaker 1: Well that's well, that was great. That's been two hours

1901
01:33:46,600 --> 01:33:47,559
Speaker 1: of my favorite murder.

1902
01:33:47,600 --> 01:33:54,160
Speaker 2: Wow. Really I don't know. Okay, we're back. Are there

1903
01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:55,519
Speaker 2: any updates on this case?

1904
01:33:55,840 --> 01:33:58,559
Speaker 3: Yes? Actually, in twenty twenty is part of a plea deal,

1905
01:33:58,640 --> 01:34:02,559
Speaker 3: Janine Jones pled guilty to murdering Joshua Sawyer quote with

1906
01:34:02,600 --> 01:34:06,559
Speaker 3: a deadly weapon and received a life sentence. This required

1907
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:09,879
Speaker 3: her to serve twenty years before becoming eligible for parole,

1908
01:34:10,400 --> 01:34:14,000
Speaker 3: so with credit for time she'd already served awaiting trial,

1909
01:34:14,040 --> 01:34:17,120
Speaker 3: this would keep her behind bars at minimum until December

1910
01:34:17,240 --> 01:34:20,200
Speaker 3: of twenty thirty seven, when she would be eighty seven

1911
01:34:20,280 --> 01:34:22,840
Speaker 3: years old, so she might get out then. I mean,

1912
01:34:22,880 --> 01:34:25,400
Speaker 3: who the fuck knows, and in her victim impact statement,

1913
01:34:25,479 --> 01:34:29,240
Speaker 3: Connie Weeks, Joshua Sawyer's mother told Jones, quote, I'm glad

1914
01:34:29,280 --> 01:34:32,479
Speaker 3: today that you will never see daylight as a free woman,

1915
01:34:32,600 --> 01:34:36,240
Speaker 3: and your life will end in captivity for killing my son.

1916
01:34:36,600 --> 01:34:37,559
Speaker 3: I leave you with this.

1917
01:34:37,880 --> 01:34:40,880
Speaker 1: I hope for you to live a long and miserable

1918
01:34:40,920 --> 01:34:43,160
Speaker 1: life behind bars. Goodbye.

1919
01:34:44,280 --> 01:34:49,559
Speaker 2: End quote, which is wow, yeah, so powerful. Yeah, okay,

1920
01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:52,640
Speaker 2: well then it's time to wrap up this episode.

1921
01:34:55,640 --> 01:34:59,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so because that was horrible and actually I

1922
01:34:59,000 --> 01:35:01,439
Speaker 1: did not think this through of what my thing was

1923
01:35:01,479 --> 01:35:02,040
Speaker 1: from this week.

1924
01:35:02,200 --> 01:35:05,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, you go first. No, okay, I said you had

1925
01:35:05,320 --> 01:35:05,880
Speaker 2: one I.

1926
01:35:05,800 --> 01:35:10,240
Speaker 1: Do, and I didn't think it through. Totally didn't.

1927
01:35:10,360 --> 01:35:10,719
Speaker 2: Okay.

1928
01:35:11,360 --> 01:35:15,120
Speaker 1: I met my friend's brand new baby yesterday.

1929
01:35:15,320 --> 01:35:17,439
Speaker 2: I swear to god, I didn't do that on purpose.

1930
01:35:17,479 --> 01:35:18,639
Speaker 1: And for a minute I thought I had.

1931
01:35:18,520 --> 01:35:20,280
Speaker 2: Done a different murder. I was doing a different murder.

1932
01:35:20,960 --> 01:35:25,519
Speaker 2: Oh my god, yeah, curtain Laurene. I didn't go because

1933
01:35:25,520 --> 01:35:25,960
Speaker 2: I was sick.

1934
01:35:26,080 --> 01:35:29,000
Speaker 1: Oh, I would have passed harassed. You do in coming?

1935
01:35:29,560 --> 01:35:32,200
Speaker 2: No, I mean, idn't be a browned baby and have

1936
01:35:32,280 --> 01:35:35,160
Speaker 2: this disgusting You should have coughed on the babies.

1937
01:35:35,360 --> 01:35:39,240
Speaker 1: So I went to my friend current Lauren's house. Yesterday

1938
01:35:40,080 --> 01:35:43,160
Speaker 1: they have the Wedlock podcast and audible.

1939
01:35:43,200 --> 01:35:44,120
Speaker 2: It's great. Everyone listened.

1940
01:35:44,560 --> 01:35:48,400
Speaker 1: And this baby, it's like two months old, and it's

1941
01:35:48,400 --> 01:35:51,000
Speaker 1: so weird to see your friend's face in a baby.

1942
01:35:51,080 --> 01:35:51,960
Speaker 3: And I kind of.

1943
01:35:52,120 --> 01:35:55,920
Speaker 1: And the baby's laughing with me. And this baby is

1944
01:35:55,960 --> 01:35:58,920
Speaker 1: so chill and sweet and has he's like dark gray

1945
01:35:59,000 --> 01:36:02,320
Speaker 1: blue eye. I mean she's darling, I mean's olive. And

1946
01:36:02,360 --> 01:36:07,439
Speaker 1: I was for a moment like a So I turned

1947
01:36:07,479 --> 01:36:09,479
Speaker 1: to Vince and I said, a dog or a baby.

1948
01:36:09,520 --> 01:36:12,320
Speaker 2: Pick one. So we're gonna get a dog.

1949
01:36:14,240 --> 01:36:16,200
Speaker 1: That's exactly the way you should make decisions like that.

1950
01:36:16,240 --> 01:36:18,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, nice ultimatums.

1951
01:36:18,320 --> 01:36:20,240
Speaker 2: Yeah you can get a dog with blue eyes.

1952
01:36:20,360 --> 01:36:21,280
Speaker 1: I can get a baby dog.

1953
01:36:21,360 --> 01:36:24,160
Speaker 2: Yeah that's right. Oh that's awesome.

1954
01:36:24,240 --> 01:36:24,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, what's yours.

1955
01:36:24,880 --> 01:36:25,920
Speaker 2: I can't wait to see that baby.

1956
01:36:25,960 --> 01:36:26,800
Speaker 1: Oh cutie.

1957
01:36:28,640 --> 01:36:30,760
Speaker 2: I mean we did mention it, I guess I will

1958
01:36:30,760 --> 01:36:33,000
Speaker 2: say this. We did mention it very briefly on the

1959
01:36:33,040 --> 01:36:36,839
Speaker 2: minisode that you and I went to a therapy session together,

1960
01:36:37,400 --> 01:36:40,639
Speaker 2: and I have to say it just made me. First

1961
01:36:40,680 --> 01:36:42,559
Speaker 2: of all, it made me so happy because we both

1962
01:36:42,640 --> 01:36:44,559
Speaker 2: know how to be in therapy. So we we cut

1963
01:36:44,600 --> 01:36:47,040
Speaker 2: to the chase really fast, I just like, this is

1964
01:36:47,040 --> 01:36:49,559
Speaker 2: what we need, we have to like whatever. But it

1965
01:36:49,600 --> 01:36:54,600
Speaker 2: made me feel so fucking mature and like like we're not.

1966
01:36:54,840 --> 01:36:57,040
Speaker 2: It's not like there's a problem we have. We're trying

1967
01:36:57,080 --> 01:37:00,320
Speaker 2: to prevent a problem because we are in a very

1968
01:37:00,360 --> 01:37:03,200
Speaker 2: we're in rare air. No, we can't go to anybody

1969
01:37:03,200 --> 01:37:05,400
Speaker 2: that got and go, hey, have you ever gone through

1970
01:37:05,400 --> 01:37:07,760
Speaker 2: this before, because no one that I know has in

1971
01:37:07,800 --> 01:37:11,640
Speaker 2: this specific way, And we basically we of course we

1972
01:37:11,680 --> 01:37:13,360
Speaker 2: have Stephen, but we just have each other.

1973
01:37:14,479 --> 01:37:17,120
Speaker 1: We've argued in front of Stephen before, sweetly with his

1974
01:37:17,360 --> 01:37:19,040
Speaker 1: face pretending to write stuck in.

1975
01:37:20,680 --> 01:37:23,680
Speaker 2: Where we just it's just this. It was it just

1976
01:37:23,680 --> 01:37:27,800
Speaker 2: felt like such a like we were just getting at

1977
01:37:27,840 --> 01:37:31,120
Speaker 2: the problem without being We were just like, let's solve this.

1978
01:37:31,200 --> 01:37:33,320
Speaker 1: And we both are self aware enough to know that

1979
01:37:33,360 --> 01:37:35,760
Speaker 1: we have fucking issues. Yeah, that make us hard, both

1980
01:37:35,800 --> 01:37:37,960
Speaker 1: of us hard. I know makes me a hard person

1981
01:37:38,920 --> 01:37:41,080
Speaker 1: to deal with. Same here, And I am aware of

1982
01:37:41,080 --> 01:37:44,040
Speaker 1: that and totally okay with that, and I want nothing

1983
01:37:44,080 --> 01:37:46,879
Speaker 1: more than to be a better person yeah and improve myself.

1984
01:37:47,120 --> 01:37:49,120
Speaker 2: So instead of it feeling like, oh, we had to

1985
01:37:49,120 --> 01:37:51,320
Speaker 2: go to therapy, it felt like, now we're going to

1986
01:37:51,400 --> 01:37:53,799
Speaker 2: do this really smart thing, so like hand in hand

1987
01:37:53,960 --> 01:37:56,880
Speaker 2: to help to make sure that we don't wreck, because

1988
01:37:56,920 --> 01:37:58,599
Speaker 2: my thing is just like, there's been so many things

1989
01:37:58,600 --> 01:38:01,360
Speaker 2: where I've just been like fuck and walked away because

1990
01:38:01,400 --> 01:38:04,240
Speaker 2: it was too I couldn't communicate with the person, it

1991
01:38:04,280 --> 01:38:07,000
Speaker 2: was too hard, it was too infuriating.

1992
01:38:07,600 --> 01:38:09,839
Speaker 1: And I've done it. I've done it and I haven't

1993
01:38:09,880 --> 01:38:12,960
Speaker 1: walked away, and I have serious issues from that and

1994
01:38:13,000 --> 01:38:15,120
Speaker 1: I don't want to go through that again. I'm older

1995
01:38:15,160 --> 01:38:17,759
Speaker 1: and wiser, and the thing that I really love about

1996
01:38:17,760 --> 01:38:20,559
Speaker 1: both of us is that I could well and I

1997
01:38:20,560 --> 01:38:23,120
Speaker 1: could say, and you could say we should go to therapy,

1998
01:38:23,240 --> 01:38:25,479
Speaker 1: and it wasn't an insult, and it wasn't cutting you

1999
01:38:25,560 --> 01:38:27,880
Speaker 1: down or cutting me down. It was just And it's

2000
01:38:27,920 --> 01:38:30,160
Speaker 1: the same thing with couples. It's a couple's relationship with

2001
01:38:30,240 --> 01:38:32,920
Speaker 1: therapy exactly. It's like, let's do this before it gets

2002
01:38:32,960 --> 01:38:36,240
Speaker 1: fucking horrible and we have to backtrack for years.

2003
01:38:36,280 --> 01:38:41,240
Speaker 2: Because it's just such a fascinating thing. First of all,

2004
01:38:41,360 --> 01:38:44,439
Speaker 2: I'm deeply in love with our therapist. Got it's amazing.

2005
01:38:44,600 --> 01:38:46,720
Speaker 2: It was like a soap opera star came to be

2006
01:38:46,760 --> 01:38:50,360
Speaker 2: our therapist, like he's beautiful, and then he would just go.

2007
01:38:50,479 --> 01:38:53,080
Speaker 2: Like we'd start talking and I could hear us telling

2008
01:38:53,200 --> 01:38:54,800
Speaker 2: the story the way we told it to each other,

2009
01:38:54,920 --> 01:38:56,920
Speaker 2: the way like here's how this story goes, and he go,

2010
01:38:57,200 --> 01:38:59,479
Speaker 2: I'm gonna stop you first. Yeah, And then instead of

2011
01:38:59,479 --> 01:39:01,760
Speaker 2: talking about the plot line, yeah, we would have to

2012
01:39:01,760 --> 01:39:04,639
Speaker 2: talk about the feelings that the actions brought up, which

2013
01:39:04,680 --> 01:39:06,800
Speaker 2: is what I hate and what I always get called

2014
01:39:06,840 --> 01:39:07,759
Speaker 2: on in therapy.

2015
01:39:07,880 --> 01:39:10,880
Speaker 1: The actions don't matter exactly right, it's what you were

2016
01:39:10,880 --> 01:39:13,200
Speaker 1: feeling when you are doing them and what it brings

2017
01:39:13,200 --> 01:39:16,280
Speaker 1: out in he's making you share yours, but what so

2018
01:39:16,360 --> 01:39:18,360
Speaker 1: you are understanding your feelings, but what are you surely

2019
01:39:18,400 --> 01:39:20,400
Speaker 1: doing is in making you explain them to me and

2020
01:39:20,479 --> 01:39:22,679
Speaker 1: me explaining them to you, which totally helps.

2021
01:39:23,000 --> 01:39:25,720
Speaker 2: So there was like genuine revelations where I was like,

2022
01:39:25,880 --> 01:39:27,920
Speaker 2: oh shit, Like we would have never talked about this

2023
01:39:28,640 --> 01:39:30,840
Speaker 2: while we were having a fight about this other thing

2024
01:39:30,880 --> 01:39:33,000
Speaker 2: where it's like I just appreciate it if you do

2025
01:39:33,040 --> 01:39:36,080
Speaker 2: this thing or whatever, and instead what we're just doing

2026
01:39:36,120 --> 01:39:38,439
Speaker 2: we're learning our backstories so that we can go, oh,

2027
01:39:38,479 --> 01:39:39,920
Speaker 2: this is that thing she does, and so.

2028
01:39:39,920 --> 01:39:42,240
Speaker 1: The next time we get if I do this thing,

2029
01:39:42,280 --> 01:39:44,800
Speaker 1: this is why she's responding to me. This way. And

2030
01:39:45,200 --> 01:39:46,720
Speaker 1: you know what I love and I hate when they

2031
01:39:46,720 --> 01:39:49,439
Speaker 1: do this is well, if you start telling them you're feeling,

2032
01:39:49,479 --> 01:39:51,720
Speaker 1: tell her like you're supposed to turn to me and

2033
01:39:51,720 --> 01:39:53,439
Speaker 1: tell me your and I'm like, I don't want to.

2034
01:39:53,840 --> 01:39:54,760
Speaker 2: He didn't make us do that.

2035
01:39:54,880 --> 01:39:57,879
Speaker 1: No, he didn't, which I appreciate. I'm sure he will eventually,

2036
01:39:57,920 --> 01:39:59,320
Speaker 1: but I think he knows right now it's too hard

2037
01:39:59,320 --> 01:39:59,560
Speaker 1: to do that.

2038
01:39:59,640 --> 01:40:01,680
Speaker 2: Well, I'll because we kind of were that's all.

2039
01:40:01,760 --> 01:40:02,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2040
01:40:02,120 --> 01:40:04,360
Speaker 2: I guess the part I loved is you are such

2041
01:40:04,400 --> 01:40:06,960
Speaker 2: a good partner in that way, where like when we

2042
01:40:06,960 --> 01:40:10,599
Speaker 2: were talking about this stuff, at no point was there

2043
01:40:10,640 --> 01:40:13,360
Speaker 2: any shutdown, was there any It was just like we

2044
01:40:13,439 --> 01:40:15,680
Speaker 2: started to be like, well, this is the this is

2045
01:40:15,680 --> 01:40:18,120
Speaker 2: what you know I'm worried about, or this is whatever,

2046
01:40:18,160 --> 01:40:20,599
Speaker 2: like this is a bad pattern we're in, and we

2047
01:40:20,640 --> 01:40:22,240
Speaker 2: both brought it together and.

2048
01:40:22,240 --> 01:40:24,720
Speaker 1: Both of us were like, oh, yeah, I can understand that. Yeah,

2049
01:40:25,000 --> 01:40:26,880
Speaker 1: because we've both been in therapy for so long. There's

2050
01:40:26,920 --> 01:40:29,880
Speaker 1: no like both and I've been in couples therapy, Like

2051
01:40:30,160 --> 01:40:33,400
Speaker 1: I understand how it's supposed to work, right, which is great,

2052
01:40:33,560 --> 01:40:35,519
Speaker 1: And there's no reason for you like that's not true

2053
01:40:35,640 --> 01:40:37,599
Speaker 1: because that's and he said at the end of which

2054
01:40:37,640 --> 01:40:40,760
Speaker 1: we should tell people this, which this fucking changed my

2055
01:40:40,800 --> 01:40:42,720
Speaker 1: thought process so much. I mean too, I'm going to

2056
01:40:42,760 --> 01:40:44,200
Speaker 1: say it wrong, you say it.

2057
01:40:44,680 --> 01:40:47,679
Speaker 2: He said, we can stop thinking about these things in

2058
01:40:47,800 --> 01:40:51,120
Speaker 2: terms of true, right or wrong, and start thinking of

2059
01:40:51,160 --> 01:40:54,479
Speaker 2: them in terms of true for Georgia, true for car Yeah.

2060
01:40:54,520 --> 01:40:56,679
Speaker 1: So what you think is right is just your truth,

2061
01:40:56,760 --> 01:40:58,559
Speaker 1: and it doesn't mean you're right.

2062
01:40:58,960 --> 01:41:01,920
Speaker 2: Or wrong, or that we can just practice moving there

2063
01:41:02,000 --> 01:41:04,800
Speaker 2: was for you. It sounds so like it's not like

2064
01:41:04,800 --> 01:41:06,880
Speaker 2: we were having these huge problems. It's like we would

2065
01:41:06,920 --> 01:41:08,760
Speaker 2: get we would everything would be great, and then we'd

2066
01:41:08,800 --> 01:41:11,600
Speaker 2: try to discuss one area. Yeah, and so we were like,

2067
01:41:11,720 --> 01:41:15,360
Speaker 2: let's fix the area before the area becomes spreads to

2068
01:41:15,439 --> 01:41:17,000
Speaker 2: the rest of everything else we're doing.

2069
01:41:17,040 --> 01:41:20,559
Speaker 1: It's like getting a bikini waxe, preemptive bikini wax before

2070
01:41:20,600 --> 01:41:22,000
Speaker 1: it gets down to your knees, or you have to

2071
01:41:22,040 --> 01:41:23,800
Speaker 1: go to the pool the next day and you're like,

2072
01:41:23,800 --> 01:41:26,519
Speaker 1: why didn't I get a bikini wax. So you try

2073
01:41:26,560 --> 01:41:29,479
Speaker 1: to do it yourself and your legs are red, yeah.

2074
01:41:29,560 --> 01:41:32,040
Speaker 2: And grown hairs all over the place. Now you've got

2075
01:41:32,080 --> 01:41:34,040
Speaker 2: to get some Russian lady to do it for you.

2076
01:41:34,120 --> 01:41:39,040
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, at Burke Williams. Yeah, guys, guys, that was

2077
01:41:39,080 --> 01:41:40,280
Speaker 2: an overshare for sure.

2078
01:41:40,520 --> 01:41:42,040
Speaker 1: No way, there's no such thing.

2079
01:41:41,960 --> 01:41:44,960
Speaker 2: All right, well, thanks for listening.

2080
01:41:45,520 --> 01:41:47,920
Speaker 1: The overshare was the bikini wax or the therapy.

2081
01:41:47,960 --> 01:41:50,560
Speaker 2: And just I don't know, no, no, okay.

2082
01:41:50,280 --> 01:41:52,639
Speaker 1: Wait, I think the bikini wax was an overshare. Oh okay,

2083
01:41:52,680 --> 01:41:54,200
Speaker 1: but not the I thought it was a good metaphor.

2084
01:41:54,320 --> 01:41:55,439
Speaker 1: I think so, I think you.

2085
01:42:01,000 --> 01:42:02,840
Speaker 3: Okay, we're back, all right.

2086
01:42:02,880 --> 01:42:06,560
Speaker 2: So the original, as we spoke about earlier, the original

2087
01:42:06,560 --> 01:42:08,760
Speaker 2: title of this episode was put It in a Door.

2088
01:42:09,520 --> 01:42:11,800
Speaker 2: So for naming it today, what should we call it?

2089
01:42:11,800 --> 01:42:15,800
Speaker 1: We would maybe call it second hand tips, which is

2090
01:42:16,320 --> 01:42:19,080
Speaker 1: what we started getting for this podcast, which I appreciate.

2091
01:42:20,200 --> 01:42:22,280
Speaker 1: And then it can also be called my favorite making

2092
01:42:22,320 --> 01:42:23,519
Speaker 1: it about me moment.

2093
01:42:27,000 --> 01:42:27,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what we do.

2094
01:42:28,080 --> 01:42:29,639
Speaker 3: That's what we do here at My Favorite Murders.

2095
01:42:29,840 --> 01:42:32,040
Speaker 2: It's what we do. I think it's what everybody does.

2096
01:42:32,320 --> 01:42:33,760
Speaker 2: What's so relatable about us?

2097
01:42:33,800 --> 01:42:38,160
Speaker 3: Totally speaking of us, let's let us say goodbye in

2098
01:42:38,240 --> 01:42:39,040
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen.

2099
01:42:39,080 --> 01:42:45,160
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Rewind. Thank you guys for listening.

2100
01:42:45,200 --> 01:42:47,160
Speaker 1: You're all fucking sweet baby angels.

2101
01:42:48,160 --> 01:42:50,520
Speaker 2: Thanks for your support all of it.

2102
01:42:50,600 --> 01:42:58,280
Speaker 1: Stay sexy, and don't get murdered. Elvis, you want to cookie? Okay,

2103
01:42:58,280 --> 01:43:01,439
Speaker 1: bye bye, Okay.

2104
01:43:01,479 --> 01:43:02,559
Speaker 2: I think I had some in here.