1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, and welcome 3 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Tracy Vie Wilson and I'm Holly Friend. 4 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: So we've started on every Friday having just a little 5 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: behind the scenes, short moment for what we have talked 6 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 1: about on the episode this week, and what we have 7 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: talked about this week was the occupation of Alcatraz. Yeah, 8 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: it's interesting because it's one of those things that was 9 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: happening when I was a tiny child. I was kind 10 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: of born in the midst of this going on, like 11 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: at the end of it. And I remember because I 12 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: lived in the Pacific Northwest not long after that, uh, 13 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: there being a lot of discussion of Native American rights 14 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: because you were still a pretty significant number of UM 15 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: Native people's in the Siving Northwest, as there still are, 16 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: but UM and us having a very weird and awkward 17 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: education around it in elementary school because it was still 18 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: developing and seemed a little bit closer to home maybe 19 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,119 Speaker 1: than some other people might have experienced in other parts 20 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: of the country, where I don't remember a lot of 21 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: the details, but I do remember, particularly one teacher trying 22 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: to very delicately explain to like eight year olds the 23 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: nuances of this, which is very hard. Eight you're not 24 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 1: really ready for And the government did really bad things, 25 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: right like, unless you've from a privileged, largely white population. 26 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: It was of kids. It was a little bit of 27 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: a head scratcher. But I remember her so valiantly trying 28 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: to like not give us a fake version of events, 29 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: but also be cognizant that these things were still ongoing 30 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: and developing and that nothing was settled, which is also 31 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: hard to teach kids, right Like, I know, you're eight, 32 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: we're talking about history, but it's not really history, it's 33 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: right now. What. Yeah, I grew up on the East 34 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: Coast and I was born just a few years after 35 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: you were, so this was in the shortly before my 36 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: birth past um and really a lot of the legislative 37 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: stuff that we talked about in the episode, like that 38 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: was happening when I was too young to be aware 39 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: of things in that way. And because I grew up 40 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: in North Carolina, our North Carolina history class included things 41 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: like the removals, which was framed as the Cherokee removal, 42 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: which there were a lot of other nations besides the 43 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: Cherokee who were who were part of all that? But 44 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 1: like we learned a lot about that in in North 45 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: Carolina history class when I was probably maybe middle school age, 46 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: seems right. We did not learn about the termination and 47 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: relocation policies at all, not in my knowledge base before 48 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: I got into this episode, And as we both often do, 49 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: I had this conversation with my husband that was about 50 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: what was I was what I was working on for work, 51 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, and there was this whole 52 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: policy of termination which I really was not familiar with. 53 00:02:55,919 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: And Patrick, my husband, grew up in New York very 54 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: close to a reservation, and he had not He was like, oh, yeah, 55 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: because I grew up so close to the reservation, Like I, 56 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: I am totally familiar with us. And I was like that, 57 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,839 Speaker 1: this is not normally how our conversations go about the show, 58 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: because normally I asked him if he's ever heard of something, 59 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: and he's like, I don't know what you're talking about. 60 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: No shade to him at all, Like he's you know, 61 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: he know, it's plenty of about other things that are 62 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: not necessarily that, but yeah, that was a thing that 63 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,679 Speaker 1: it was just not part of my education at all. 64 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: Um that was more something he knew about because of 65 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: his personal experience. What was your research like, particularly on 66 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: this episode, because we talked about in both of the 67 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: episodes that, like, as I was just saying, this isn't 68 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: all settled and it's not going So we even referenced 69 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: uh Leonada's book, which is not yet out as we're 70 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: talking about all this. Yeah, And to be clear, I 71 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: have not I have not read that book. I do 72 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: know it's forthcoming. What I when I first started thinking 73 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: about doing an episode episode on this, which was like 74 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: a year ago, the first thing that I wanted to 75 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: make sure of was to make sure that I was 76 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: reading things that were by people who were there um 77 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: or were by other Native people, and that I was 78 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: not getting like just a white perspective on things. And 79 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: so I had I had the book that we mentioned 80 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: at the very end of the episode was called American 81 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 1: Indian Activism Alcatraz to the Longest Walk, and that was 82 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: something that I had gotten specifically because the essays in 83 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 1: it were by so many different people who were actually involved. 84 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: In addition to having the historical analysis chapters at the end, 85 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: I also had picked up as one of the first 86 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: things that I picked up was Adam Fortunate Eagles memoir 87 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: of it. He's actually written a couple of different books 88 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: that are related to it, so I had picked up 89 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: the more recent of them. Um, And then as I 90 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: was reading through that, I kind of learned about how 91 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: he was one of the older people, Like he was 92 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: in his forties, he had a really successful business, he 93 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 1: drove a really nice car, like he he was pretty 94 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 1: well off, especially compared to some of the other people 95 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: that he was interacting with. And I sort of learned about, Okay, 96 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: how how there were like divisions within the movement which 97 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: are totally unsurprising, and how I needed to make sure 98 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: not just to get like the Native people's perspective, I 99 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: also needed to get like a breadth of perspective within 100 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: the movement. So there was a lot of reading accounts 101 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: of people who were actually there, watching interview footage with 102 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: people who are actually there, And then also you know, 103 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 1: some of these folks are still living. I mean the 104 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: people the college students who were involved fifty years ago 105 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 1: were in their twenties, so like some were still living 106 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: in like their sixties and seventies today, Like seeing what 107 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 1: what they're working on now, what kind of work they're 108 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: doing now, uh to kind of close that circle. Yeah, 109 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 1: it's one of those things that comes up periodically in 110 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: the news, not even specifically this, but just ongoing discussions, reparations, etcetera. 111 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: And not just in the US. Canada has had a 112 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: lot of this going on, and I wonder if there 113 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 1: will will ever be a point where it feels as 114 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: though it is resolved in some way, Which is hard 115 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: for me to even get my head around such a 116 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: concept right one. It's not my life experience to know too. 117 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 1: I mean, we're talking about hundreds and hundreds of years, Like, 118 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: at what point do you go, No, we're even now. 119 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: I don't I don't know how you would even quantify 120 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: such thing well, especially given how recently and how ongoing 121 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: a lot of these things are still still are, Like 122 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: there are still so many, so many people, so many 123 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: like so many Native nations who were given land specifically 124 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: under the terms of the treaty. That treaty has never 125 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: been abolished, that treaty has never been a return, still 126 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: supposed to have that land, but other people have taken it, 127 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: and it's like it's still going on like a p 128 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: today um. And then the termination and removal policies are 129 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: in such the recent past and we're a pent just 130 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 1: a hole in my knowledge. Um and as I said 131 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: in the episode, that's so messed up. Like I still 132 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: this is not this is not a completely apt comparison 133 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: because it's a different situation. But it's almost like if 134 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: the UK said not just that Whales isn't going to 135 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: be part of the UK anymore, but that Whales doesn't 136 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: exist anymore. Like that's the level of how messed up 137 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: that is, right, and any cultural element of being Welsh 138 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: has to be completely obliterated. Yeah, yeah, it is. It's 139 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: hard to part a modern day like a current event 140 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: equivalent that isn't a land a case like this where 141 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: native people's were completely overrun and kind of walked on 142 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: it's it is, it's very messed up. Ye uh yeah, 143 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: we're concurrence on this issue. Yes, So I wanted to 144 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: be sure to do this episode not just because it's 145 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: the fiftieth anniversary, because it's just such an example of 146 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: how much of this is still going on today and 147 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: how if if folks live in a place where there's 148 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: not a large population of eight of people, um, people 149 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: sometimes imagine that there aren't anymore which is totally false. 150 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: People also kind of imagine that like there was, like 151 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: we said in the episode, that there was just sort 152 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: of passivity of accepting whatever the federal government said. That's 153 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: totally false. Like this was. This is a story that 154 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: that counteracts so many false tropes um that I thought 155 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: it was really important to have it. I'm so glad 156 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: you picked it. Thank you. All right, We will see 157 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: you guys back here next week with more topics. Stuff 158 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: you missed in History Class is a production of I 159 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. For more podcasts. For my 160 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 161 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.