Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories.
Speaker 2: Done done, Yay, that's messed up.
Speaker 3: An SVU podcast.
Speaker 1: I am Lisa and I'm Kara, and you guys, I
Speaker 1: mean hopefully it's episode two twenty.
Speaker 3: You get it. It's a shita.
Speaker 1: We talk about an episode of SVU, we talk about
Speaker 1: the true crime that it was based on, and then
Speaker 1: sometimes we interview somebody and first we just chitchat, catch up,
Speaker 1: rant about the state of the world.
Speaker 3: You guys know what we do. Well, I'm at you know,
Speaker 3: I'm post soul cycle.
Speaker 2: And today it was an EDM class, so I was
Speaker 2: I thought I was gonna hate it. I think I'm
Speaker 2: into EDM. Yeah, like it was really fun and she
Speaker 2: did such a good job, Rachel. But then after class
Speaker 2: it was her and a few other you know, class participants,
Speaker 2: and I go, I didn't know, I like, DVM, this
Speaker 2: this was so fun and she goes, yeah, it's just
Speaker 2: like nostalgic, you know, reminds me of high school. I'm like, sure,
Speaker 2: You're sure bitch. She's like, it's twenty fourteen. You know,
Speaker 2: it's just so nostalgic.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah yeah, sure, absolutely, yeah, that's so funny.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: And they were like, yeah, reminds me of school dances.
Speaker 2: I was like truly mid twenties. It was just like
Speaker 2: I was like getting married. Wow, so funny. And the comics. Now,
Speaker 2: I was at the cellar and they're all like twenty six,
Speaker 2: twenty seven, and that was me, you know at some point.
Speaker 2: But they're all surprised I'm thirty seven. But I think
Speaker 2: it's the like I live an immature lifestyle. Maybe they
Speaker 2: were all really shocked.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, I get that.
Speaker 2: I mean they're like whoa, And I'm like, well, yeah,
Speaker 2: I've I've achieved a lot.
Speaker 3: It would be crazy if I was your age.
Speaker 1: Right, yes, But I think also when you're twenty like
Speaker 1: five or six, you think thirty seven is super old,
Speaker 1: and it's not.
Speaker 3: It's young, you know, like I think that's young.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean I was Okay, So my brother
Speaker 1: was in town. My brother, Colin show only member of
Speaker 1: my family that listens to the pod.
Speaker 2: I brought him up on a different podcast just yesterday.
Speaker 2: I actually talk about Colin a lot because of the
Speaker 2: seven days on, seven days off schedule.
Speaker 1: Does I'm both ordering the duck I feel also makes
Speaker 1: its way it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I just think that's like such a good lifestyle.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: But then, well it was funny because it was Ian
Speaker 2: Laura's podcast and I was like talking about doctors. I'm like,
Speaker 2: it is a hard job. I'm like, it's really intensive,
Speaker 2: Like I would never want my child to have to
Speaker 2: work that hard. And he's like, but it's honorable. Well,
Speaker 2: while we talk about the schedule, he goes. But even
Speaker 2: then it's like seven days you have to you're getting back,
Speaker 2: you know, recovering. I go, well, no, he's gay. He's traveling.
Speaker 2: And yeah, well you didn't mention that. They're like, you
Speaker 2: didn't mention that he was gay. No, oh yeah, you
Speaker 2: got Eurovision. I'm like, he's not acclimating. They're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: the gays don't really need rest. I go, no, no, no.
Speaker 2: Going from the hospital to Hawaii, yeah no.
Speaker 1: And he was in Vegas and then he was at
Speaker 1: a conference in la and then he came to stay
Speaker 1: with us for a few days, and so wildly I
Speaker 1: had tickets to go see Anitra at this place in Wiho,
Speaker 1: and sadly it got postpone because of the fires, and
Speaker 1: then it got rescheduled to when he was in town.
Speaker 3: So I just got him my ticket, perfect, perfect.
Speaker 1: So we go and he was like it was just funny,
Speaker 1: because he was like, it is funny that you're as
Speaker 1: old as you are, and like you have two kids,
Speaker 1: and like you are at a drag show with me
Speaker 1: at like midnight right now, you.
Speaker 3: Know, like I do.
Speaker 1: I you're as old as you feel, you know, like
Speaker 1: you're I feel like I feel much younger than I am,
Speaker 1: and I try to stay young, but like you know,
Speaker 1: I also was extremely tired after going out with him
Speaker 1: two nights in a row, Like, I was very tired.
Speaker 3: Wait, how is what else did you guys do?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 1: So we went to see Anitra and it was awesome.
Speaker 1: It's just like one of those things where like the
Speaker 1: watching the show. I love watching the show at watch parties,
Speaker 1: like I love going to bars to watch it.
Speaker 3: It's so fun.
Speaker 1: The whole crowd reacts like did you watch last week's episode?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm watching every week. Yeah, I'm into I'm into it.
Speaker 2: They're talented, yeah yeah, and they're down to fight a
Speaker 2: little you know, like they're giving. They're giving, and you
Speaker 2: can sort of see like who people like, like.
Speaker 3: People at this bar and this was like a big bar.
Speaker 1: There's like a big club kind of in Weho and
Speaker 1: you could tell they were like huge. Arietti stands like
Speaker 1: even before she won sorry spoiler alert, everybody like before
Speaker 1: she like won the challenge, like people were like obsessed
Speaker 1: and yeah.
Speaker 3: I was talking to some people that weren't that indoor.
Speaker 2: I'm like that final outfit was incredible, the coral glasses, nails,
Speaker 2: the little suit like I was in.
Speaker 1: I loved that outfit, a lion fit. She looked amazing
Speaker 1: as the lionfish. Like I was showing my kids last
Speaker 1: night because we read a ocean book, and I go,
Speaker 1: do you guys want to see the challenge from drag Race?
Speaker 1: It was amazing And I was showing them the runway.
Speaker 1: I go, look how much that looks like a Spanish answer.
Speaker 1: Rosie was like yeah, like I'm indoctrinating them.
Speaker 3: It's crazy.
Speaker 1: But then so then Anitra and this other queen who's
Speaker 1: like local, and I feel bad.
Speaker 2: I forgot, Oh my god, look at what I'm holding. Okay,
Speaker 2: do you see this oh god, lipstick. Yes, but is
Speaker 2: it or is it a lie?
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 1: So it looks like the lipstick that on All Stars
Speaker 1: they used to eliminate each other, but it's red and
Speaker 1: then when you take off the cap, it's a lighter.
Speaker 3: I love that. That's fun.
Speaker 2: It was a gift from a couple of gays in
Speaker 2: San Francisco that I love.
Speaker 3: I was like, that's a gift from somebody who knows you.
Speaker 3: That's very good. That's a very good gift.
Speaker 1: And this queen that I don't know, and they just
Speaker 1: kind of comment during commercial breaks, which is cute and funny.
Speaker 1: And then afterwards, so you're like, Okay, can I see
Speaker 1: the show now, and like they're like, are you guys.
Speaker 3: Ready for anitra? Wait ten more minutes.
Speaker 1: And then it would be other queens and then they'd
Speaker 1: be like, anitra will be out here in five more minutes.
Speaker 1: And it was like just we were just waiting and
Speaker 1: waiting and waiting for anitra. But Anuitra famously canceled. So
Speaker 1: I was just happy that she showed. She put on
Speaker 1: a great show. She did like a she did like
Speaker 1: a dualipa medley kind of which, by the way, Analise
Speaker 1: is covering us today for Casey, and Analise is a
Speaker 1: huge du Alipa fan. So if you haven't checked out
Speaker 1: the Antra, I mean, if you haven't, I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: say go see Anutral live. She does a Dualipa medley.
Speaker 1: And then we went to Pisia Palace, this place in
Speaker 1: La that's like Indian Italian fusion and it was so good.
Speaker 3: And then what'd you get?
Speaker 1: We got this delicious like bread that had like chili
Speaker 1: on it, but it was like it was like an
Speaker 1: Indian version of garlic bread.
Speaker 3: It was so good.
Speaker 1: And then we got this pasta that was super spicy
Speaker 1: and like an Indian spicy sauce.
Speaker 3: And then we got a pizza that had like green
Speaker 3: chili on It was spicy.
Speaker 1: This stuff was but not like crazy, like I can
Speaker 1: handle a medium level of spice and it was like
Speaker 1: pretty good.
Speaker 3: And then the next night we.
Speaker 1: Went to uh oh and by the way, as I
Speaker 1: was walking out of an etress, somebody said, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I love your podcast and I was like, thank you
Speaker 1: so much, so hello to you.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry I didn't get to say hi. It was loud.
Speaker 1: And then the next night I went to Chris Fairbanks
Speaker 1: had a birthday party. Another I was gonna play the
Speaker 1: Getty to you because I thought you would think that
Speaker 1: was funny. They basically had like they had a step
Speaker 1: and repeat like backdrop for a photo booth, and then
Speaker 1: they had like the Getty Images label like hanging down
Speaker 1: so that it like looks like we're all in Getty Images,
Speaker 1: which is really funny.
Speaker 3: Obviously you can tell. But it was really funny.
Speaker 1: And I met Chris's sister who loves our podcast, loves
Speaker 1: you loves our pod, and she was so sweet. And
Speaker 1: then the next actually that's actually the best.
Speaker 2: It happens to you at the cellar too, like comics
Speaker 2: was like, oh my god, my sister, my childhood friend
Speaker 2: or someone. Yeah, listens to the pod, so thanks so much.
Speaker 2: We love that comedians know who really runs this town, Jay, Yeah,
Speaker 2: but thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: No, it was funny because I saw Logan Gunzulman, who's
Speaker 1: a comic that you're also, and she was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I got a text Liza, because you know, she was
Speaker 1: like she she loves SVU and Law and Order as well.
Speaker 3: But that was really fun that party.
Speaker 1: And then the next day I ran into another listener
Speaker 1: at a trampoline park where I took my kids.
Speaker 2: Was this the same trampoline park from the fire like evacuation.
Speaker 1: Or franchise because that was down in the San Diego area.
Speaker 2: This is the one that's in the LA area. But yes,
Speaker 2: same franchise, So you guys are now a trampoline park family.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say that I did buy the membership because
Speaker 1: one visit is the same as one month membership. So
Speaker 1: I'm gonna cancel it, but I'm gonna take them a
Speaker 1: bunch of times this month. Okay, great, great, great, great,
Speaker 1: you know I love a deal.
Speaker 2: Wait did you watch the Super Bowl? Did you go
Speaker 2: to a friend's house? Uh?
Speaker 3: Yes, we went to our friend's house to watch.
Speaker 2: The Super Bowl and then our sports friends or someone else.
Speaker 3: Where'd you go?
Speaker 1: It was?
Speaker 3: I went to my friend Valentina's house.
Speaker 1: She's my friend through Rosie's school, and like she lives
Speaker 1: a couple of blocks for me, and she had a
Speaker 1: nice party and uh, like tons of food and some
Speaker 1: guy that owns a beer company brought all this beer
Speaker 1: and then we and then I but I wasn't really
Speaker 1: paying attention to the game that much because Philly was
Speaker 1: just kind of whipping them from the beginning. But then
Speaker 1: I obviously sat and like watched the halftime show, and
Speaker 1: I watched it with like a very precocious eleven year
Speaker 1: old who, like is was so cool and he just
Speaker 1: knew everything and was we were just like him and
Speaker 1: I were just like vibing, were like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: Drake must be in a hole right now. Like we
Speaker 1: were just like me and this eleven year old kid
Speaker 1: were just like talking about the halftime show the whole
Speaker 1: time because a lot of people at the party were like, oh,
Speaker 1: I guess I don't know that much of Kendrick's music,
Speaker 1: and I'm not like the biggest Kendrick fan, but I
Speaker 1: do know a lot of the music and was like,
Speaker 1: I was into the halftime show.
Speaker 3: How about you? What it was your Super Bowl?
Speaker 2: Well, I I don't listen to rap, but I was in.
Speaker 3: I mean, I loved it from the moment.
Speaker 2: And usually I also don't like men performance so hotly famously,
Speaker 2: so I'm glad that Sizza was there, but like, I
Speaker 2: loved it. And then I was watching with fun people,
Speaker 2: the same people again, so Sidney, Marie, Amina Matteo. So
Speaker 2: it was Sydney's birthday party. So we actually did a
Speaker 2: painting party, like a sip and paint.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 2: I loved it. We painted Snoopy on turntables. Wow. And
Speaker 2: it was on the Lower East Side and I loved it.
Speaker 2: I want to do more painting parties. I felt so accomplished.
Speaker 2: It was cute, Like, yeah, I loved it. It was
Speaker 2: such a creative, fun birthday like I've never done one
Speaker 2: of those, so it was really a good time.
Speaker 3: But then we went to the Cellar.
Speaker 2: They closed down the Cellar for it was a super
Speaker 2: Bowl every year, and they have like plates shaped like
Speaker 2: footballs and tablecloths that look like the field.
Speaker 3: So I like that. But I just but Sydney right
Speaker 3: away yelled.
Speaker 2: Look at those Flair jeans, and then that was all
Speaker 2: of Instagram. Was just like Drake, you had a tiny
Speaker 2: man and flares really come for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is human.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, those Celene jeans, those Celene jeans. I
Speaker 1: was like, if I if I had laid my eyes
Speaker 1: on those in college, I would have been I would
Speaker 1: have been love at first sight, like, oh my god.
Speaker 3: But I I you know, Samuel L.
Speaker 2: Jackson's in my top five favorite like actors of all
Speaker 2: time and so I just was so into seeing him.
Speaker 3: I like the lamp post.
Speaker 2: I mean I guessed when I saw Serena, I gas, yeah,
Speaker 2: Like I.
Speaker 3: Just was so into it all.
Speaker 2: And afterwards though, one of my friends was like, damn,
Speaker 2: like Usher was more fun last year.
Speaker 3: I go, honey, that was a party. We're fighting fascism.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she goes suns over, Yeah, she goes Damn, you're right.
Speaker 2: I'm like, he did that in the in front of
Speaker 2: the fucking president.
Speaker 3: Yeah. It has never gone to a super Bowl before.
Speaker 3: I didn't know that. Ok.
Speaker 2: It was so dark because like I was really into
Speaker 2: the pre star Spangl Banner performances and then like the
Speaker 2: star Spangle banner I'm into, and then when they cut
Speaker 2: to him and then like military and Gray, I'm like,
Speaker 2: this is so fucking dark. But like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: I keep like ranting and raving that no one's cool anymore,
Speaker 2: no one's punk rock. People are now like what is
Speaker 2: it called compulsory like compliance?
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, Like people are changing.
Speaker 2: They're something like that, Like they're already taking like fitting
Speaker 2: into the things before it's even mandated.
Speaker 3: Like Disney is changing language.
Speaker 2: Everyone's doing this stuff, and it's like whoa are we
Speaker 2: not fighting this? Yeah, and so it's just kind of
Speaker 2: like a dark, fucked up time and to have someone
Speaker 2: be that badass, does it tease being sued? Said his
Speaker 2: name while smiling at the camera. But yeah, So obviously
Speaker 2: all of like the imagery and everything that probably you know,
Speaker 2: a lot went over my head.
Speaker 1: But I obviously had to watch a lot of the
Speaker 1: tiktoks that broke down, lot of the Easter eggs and
Speaker 1: stuff that I did not know.
Speaker 3: But it was a.
Speaker 2: Very black super Bowl, and and like with Grant, it
Speaker 2: just it was exciting, and I hope it's not the last.
Speaker 2: Like a part of me is like, are they just
Speaker 2: letting us have a hurrah before we're done? Like I'm
Speaker 2: so scared. But I loved how black the super Bowl
Speaker 2: felt like it was. And maybe it's because I watched
Speaker 2: with a bunch of black people, but like it just
Speaker 2: fell No. They kept they kept saying, they kept, they
Speaker 2: kept saying, I can't believe how black they're letting Kendrick be.
Speaker 2: I can't believe how black this is. And you know,
Speaker 2: just the black body is making the flag. I mean,
Speaker 2: it was really badass. And so I'm sorry if you
Speaker 2: know some people in the Midwest weren't entertained, but yeah,
Speaker 2: this was huge.
Speaker 3: It was exciting.
Speaker 2: And then my soul cycle teacher played the Super Bowl
Speaker 2: Kendrick with Samuel Jackson in class, and so I was zooming.
Speaker 2: I was motivated, and then she went straight into the
Speaker 2: Challengers soundtrack, wh.
Speaker 3: Like I couldn't I've been uh well.
Speaker 2: On Saturday, I went to two soul cycles back to back.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, you told me you were gonna do that.
Speaker 2: I not only survived, I thrived. The music was amazing,
Speaker 2: Like I went by so fast, honestly, like I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I should do two a day's every weekend.
Speaker 1: Were you You weren't hurting extra like the next day
Speaker 1: or anything. No, Honestly, her Tuesday class that was one
Speaker 1: hurt more because maybe because I went hard, I don't know.
Speaker 2: But it was also two tailor songs of every album.
Speaker 2: So I was like in I was, I was just
Speaker 2: floating high. So yeah, I'm like so, But I also
Speaker 2: like Jalen Hurts is so hot. Saquon Barley's children. There
Speaker 2: was a lot of babies on the field, and obviously
Speaker 2: I love I love Taylor Travis. The three peat would
Speaker 2: have been nice. I have not contacted my friend Caleb yet,
Speaker 2: but I know I was.
Speaker 3: I was wondering if you were watching with him. No,
Speaker 3: I bandwagon so fast.
Speaker 2: I started cheering for the Eagles at the first intercession,
Speaker 2: like I dropped the Chiefs immediately. No, once I found
Speaker 2: out Jalen Hurts had an all female management team, like, uh, manager, agent,
Speaker 2: account all.
Speaker 3: Obviously, I'm sure.
Speaker 2: And then Travis of course said, I'm happy the President's coming,
Speaker 2: so yeah, I want you to lose.
Speaker 3: It's like it did feel like mass that's yeah.
Speaker 2: They were like in one of the interviews, like how
Speaker 2: do you feel he goes, it's an honor to have
Speaker 2: like a president come to the game. Whatever, And then
Speaker 2: when they asked Jalen Hurts, he goes, I don't know,
Speaker 2: he can be there. I don't care. So yeah, it's
Speaker 2: like it is, it is what it is. But Jalen
Speaker 2: Hurts is only twenty six. That is a grown ass man, Like, wow,
Speaker 2: twenty six. It just it was an exciting It was
Speaker 2: a boring game because of the blowout, but I really
Speaker 2: love like, you know, one of the interceptions, it was
Speaker 2: a rookie player on his birthday.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, that's so fund.
Speaker 2: Jean and I guess that position he plays as notoriously black.
Speaker 2: So then everyone's like the de I white, like running
Speaker 2: back did it or not running back?
Speaker 3: Whatever?
Speaker 2: The defense Twitter's me, I mean, not Twitter, but like Instagram.
Speaker 2: The meme people are so funny. It's really incredible how
Speaker 2: funny one is and how I feel, Like, Yeah, I cried.
Speaker 2: I cried. You know.
Speaker 3: They had the.
Speaker 2: Voice Sekwan Barley like Barkley, They like played a voicemail
Speaker 2: that his daughter left him before the game about like
Speaker 2: you are gonna win at and then it's like him
Speaker 2: and the kids on the field. Yeah, and then the
Speaker 2: next video of him is just like shotgunning a beer shirtless,
Speaker 2: and I'm like.
Speaker 1: God, wait, I saw some video of a guy too
Speaker 1: that was on the field with his dad when he
Speaker 1: was little, and then he's wearing his dad's number.
Speaker 3: He won. Oh, let's not cry. We're not gonna cry.
Speaker 3: I saw that this morning and was like, well, that's
Speaker 3: so sweet.
Speaker 2: I also cried during the Women in Sports commercial, like
Speaker 2: it was Caitlin Clark and the gymnast. I mean a
Speaker 2: lot of athletes I don't know, Shakhari Richard, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Cried at that commercial In front of the people.
Speaker 2: And then well there was one person from Philly, and
Speaker 2: so I was assuming he was an Eagles fan, but
Speaker 2: he actually met five grand against them and lost.
Speaker 3: And I go, that's what you do. That's what you
Speaker 3: do when you fucking go against your don't go against
Speaker 3: your hometown, bro, that's bad. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then I don't know if this is real, but
Speaker 1: I saw one reel where it was like a girl
Speaker 1: after her waitressing shift being like, I just bet my
Speaker 1: mortgage on blue gatorade and it was yellow gatorade, So like.
Speaker 2: I think people were betting like the gatorade. It's like
Speaker 2: betting's gotten crazy. Oh by the way, coach of the
Speaker 2: Eagles is hot. Oh yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 1: When they poured water on that guy, I'm like, I
Speaker 1: haven't seen a coach that isn't like a like fucking
Speaker 1: old man dating a twenty three year old in a
Speaker 1: long time.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then one of the girls from Taylor Watch podcast,
Speaker 2: she's from Philadelphia and she was down in Nola and
Speaker 2: I keep watching her celebration video. She's just in the
Speaker 2: middle of Bourbon Street with a whistle and I guess
Speaker 2: that's part of their culture. And she's just whistling, and
Speaker 2: all these guys are dancing around or going blow that
Speaker 2: whistle or whatever, give him that whistle, and she's just
Speaker 2: blowing the whistle, partying and like, I'm just I'm nervous
Speaker 2: for the parade. I hope everyone's safe. I hope the
Speaker 2: lamp posts survived. I gotta grease those lamp posts. Well
Speaker 2: do you saw they just they just rip them out
Speaker 2: of the ground. They're like, you don't want us climbing it,
Speaker 2: We'll take them out. They were they were holding lamp
Speaker 2: like street lamps on what.
Speaker 3: Are those little lights?
Speaker 2: Yeah, the lights, the three raffic lights, traffic lights, those
Speaker 2: whole poles people were holding that were God. There were
Speaker 2: people in horses Philadelphia, riding horses in the middle of
Speaker 2: the parade. I mean, I really do love it. And
Speaker 2: I'm going to Philly to perform I think in June.
Speaker 2: So oh yeah, there's still gonna be buzzing. There will
Speaker 2: still be buzzing in June. And I'm I'm a bit
Speaker 2: I flip flopped, so yeah, I'm a five, I'm Eagles Now,
Speaker 2: I'm Jalen Hurts.
Speaker 3: Baby, Listen.
Speaker 1: There's certain things we stand for on this podcast, and
Speaker 1: then there's other times where you know, look, my favorite
Speaker 1: housewife used to be Lisa Vanderpump. Like we've all flipped
Speaker 1: back and forth on different things. I was listening to, like,
Speaker 1: I don't really listen to Bitch Sessha anymore because they
Speaker 1: went behind a paywall. But like they did, they did
Speaker 1: their four hundredth episode and they had the watch with
Speaker 1: Crappin's guys on and they were just doing their best
Speaker 1: and worst their favorite and least favorite housewives, and I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't even know how I could decide
Speaker 1: one of them. Did pick vander Pump though, but do
Speaker 1: you think you could even choose to Dinda? Drenda's your top?
Speaker 2: Who's your bottom? I quote her the most, Yeah, I
Speaker 2: quote her the most. I want to be at Bluestone.
Speaker 2: I forget it, right, I regret it. Yeah, And it
Speaker 2: wasn't even thinking about that one when I even think
Speaker 2: about the quotes, but I say, not, well, bitch all
Speaker 2: the time. Yeah, I made a nice clip, you fool,
Speaker 2: Like I just love her on the bug shot.
Speaker 3: She likes the party. I don't know, Like she liked
Speaker 3: the cheese store.
Speaker 2: I remember she went to the cheese store and how
Speaker 2: the time, Like Dirinda's my girl, like Milinda is.
Speaker 1: My I was sad that we got rid of her
Speaker 1: first of the traders.
Speaker 3: She came in too hot. I guess for that game
Speaker 3: she wasn't.
Speaker 2: It's sexis and this happens on reality shows throughout.
Speaker 1: Oh I thought she started shit with Iver, but it's
Speaker 1: my first season watch is.
Speaker 2: But I'm just saying, like surve up everyone like women,
Speaker 2: gay people and not white people get voted out first immediately.
Speaker 2: Always it's always like, well, I don't know if I
Speaker 2: trust them, and it's like I think it's an unchecked bias,
Speaker 2: like it really Jeremy was like it just happens. They're
Speaker 2: just more frivolous. But also like the game players are stupid.
Speaker 2: The traders are stupid, Like get rid of the game players,
Speaker 2: not the wives.
Speaker 3: They don't know what's going on.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, wait, but who would be your bottom least
Speaker 1: favor housewife.
Speaker 2: It's just tough because I think some are despicable people
Speaker 2: but are good housewife?
Speaker 3: Do you pick the most boring housewife?
Speaker 1: Like I know, I truly don't like Lisa Barlowe, but
Speaker 1: she is good television.
Speaker 2: You know, And like I was thinking, Vicki and Ramona
Speaker 2: but it's like we need them. So like I hated
Speaker 2: Carlton the Witch. I guess, oh yeah, Carlton the Witch.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, remember like Peggy, I just think it's
Speaker 1: so funny when the people that have been on it
Speaker 1: for one season it just are so forgettable.
Speaker 2: I did also, I mean, this isn't a sports podcast,
Speaker 2: but have you been paying attention to the Luca of
Speaker 2: it all? You know, the Luca Dallas.
Speaker 3: No, I don't know anything. What are you talking about?
Speaker 2: So? Oh, okay, this is this will be fun hopefully
Speaker 2: all the sports girl is right us. Let us know
Speaker 2: if I'm describing this good or not. So this is
Speaker 2: all new to me. But now I'm like a number
Speaker 2: one Luca fan. I followed him like for life. Now okay,
Speaker 2: so Luca is the Dallas Mavericks, like kind of hero.
Speaker 2: He's apparently like the third best player in the league,
Speaker 2: like very good, twenty five, very young.
Speaker 3: But he's a party boy.
Speaker 2: I guess he's a little chubby, but like there's a
Speaker 2: video of the owner like someone taking a beer from him.
Speaker 2: But he's I guess he's like a party guy. Okay,
Speaker 2: but Dallas loves him. He brought the team to the finals,
Speaker 2: he's like a core member. Mid season, all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: they trade him to the Lakers, like a week or
Speaker 2: two ago, out of nowhere, and then people are outside
Speaker 2: of Dallas going bring him back.
Speaker 3: He's not fat like.
Speaker 2: People are people because because and then who they got
Speaker 2: for him is like this guy ad who's always injured
Speaker 2: in like seven years older than him and just not
Speaker 2: as good a first round draft pick, and then maybe
Speaker 2: like another person, and so everyone's like what the fuck
Speaker 2: is going on? So then there is the conspiracies, but
Speaker 2: one is like the fifth richest woman in the world
Speaker 2: is like a dumb bitch. Obviously billionaires are bad people,
Speaker 2: and she wants to move the team to Vegas, but
Speaker 2: they're like, well, you can't move our start whatever. There's
Speaker 2: all these fights people are happening, and these are just
Speaker 2: billionaires who don't care. So she just as a fuck you,
Speaker 2: like did it to be able to move people and
Speaker 2: pay whatever. Then there's also conspiracies that like the NBA
Speaker 2: viewership is down and this is like part of the
Speaker 2: leadership doing this because they can't move Luca to a
Speaker 2: new place, like they need to train Luca to take
Speaker 2: over post Lebron like Lebron's gonna and then Lebron's actually
Speaker 2: gonna be a part owner of this Vegas team, so
Speaker 2: he's gonna eventually be the face of that. But so
Speaker 2: I guess it's like and then they're like Lebron might
Speaker 2: help Luca better train for his body and like take
Speaker 2: care of himself. So there's all of this, and then
Speaker 2: someone was like, it's because Lebron murdered someone, and it's
Speaker 2: this and that, and I don't think that's what's happening,
Speaker 2: and I might be missing some conspiracy. I don't know,
Speaker 2: but it's like never been done, Like it's a crazy
Speaker 2: fucking thing. And Luca was devastated, like he just was
Speaker 2: so sad and like he's beloved. But as soon as
Speaker 2: he moved to La, the ticket sales like exploded, but
Speaker 2: he already donated half a million dollars to like building
Speaker 2: children stuff up at post fire. He's like hey, He's like, hey,
Speaker 2: my new neighbors, Like here's half a mill, Like I'm here,
Speaker 2: like this is my new town. And then I'm getting
Speaker 2: chills and so he's like on the bench and he's
Speaker 2: like sad. And then it was the first huddle. It's
Speaker 2: like him and Lebron finally playing, and Lebron in the huddle.
Speaker 2: What a fucking leader. And that's another thing like Travis
Speaker 2: and Pat m homes Like in the Super Bowl, I
Speaker 2: thought like their leadership was bad. They weren't like like
Speaker 2: you're losing, pump up your team a war, but like
Speaker 2: they kind of flop. But anyways, so Lebron's in the
Speaker 2: huddle and he goes, Luca, be your fucking self, don't
Speaker 2: fit in, fuck like fit the fuck out.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I saw that video. I didn't know what I was
Speaker 3: looking at, and Luca.
Speaker 2: Smiles, and then I just watched clips today and it's
Speaker 2: like Luca did a giant long pass to Lebron and
Speaker 2: Lebron made like this bucket like easy layup. But it
Speaker 2: was cool, and you could see Luca's smile because he
Speaker 2: is twenty five and he gets to like passed away
Speaker 2: with Lebron. Yeah, and so he was so depressed and sad,
Speaker 2: being like so disrespected by you know, these rich meal
Speaker 2: and he was about to have like a max out contract,
Speaker 2: so I think they didn't want to pay him like
Speaker 2: his hundred plus million that he was supposed to get.
Speaker 2: But like the smile on his face passing to Lebron
Speaker 2: and like getting into the game again.
Speaker 3: So yeah, you guys got Luca. So it's really exciting.
Speaker 1: This is great education. Now I know what's going on
Speaker 1: in sports in my own city. I'm really truly not.
Speaker 2: I was not.
Speaker 1: You know, I probably like a few days away from
Speaker 1: figuring that all out, like you know, that would have
Speaker 1: passed me in a wave like you always get things
Speaker 1: a few days before me.
Speaker 3: But I actually had something to say.
Speaker 2: No, we have to get started, but I.
Speaker 3: Okay, I got something to say.
Speaker 2: So you know, I love magazine YouTube content that's nothing new.
Speaker 2: And I was watching a criminologist talk about serial killers.
Speaker 2: So he was like watching. He was like watching movies
Speaker 2: and TV shows and then saying what's real and not
Speaker 2: real and whatever. And so his name is David Wilson.
Speaker 2: He's a criminologist. And he goes, he goes, stop trying
Speaker 2: to get inside these guys' heads. Fuck these guys. He's like,
Speaker 2: they're losers. These are losers. Serial killers are losers. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and he goes, we need to stop trying to figure
Speaker 2: out their dark brains and focus more on why the
Speaker 2: same communities are targeted and help people if we actually
Speaker 2: want to like, you know, help stop serial killers. He goes,
Speaker 2: fuck the inside of their minds, but challenge homophobia. Have
Speaker 2: a grown up debate on how we police people who
Speaker 2: sell sexual services and why the elderly are so vulnerable
Speaker 2: in our culture, and he said we need to focus
Speaker 2: on those things instead of like, you know, sexualizing these Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm like not that it's the same. He's not a
Speaker 1: serial killer. But it's like, we can stop calling Kanye
Speaker 1: a genius now too, can we stop? Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: I'm just like like yeah, but it's like calling all
Speaker 1: these like just mediocre shittheads that got away with killing
Speaker 1: in the seventies before there was fucking DNA and like CCTV,
Speaker 1: and we're like, oh, a genius, let's get inside and
Speaker 1: figure out what's making them tick.
Speaker 3: Like yeah, no, he said they're all losers. Yeah, yeah, good,
Speaker 3: I love that. Yeah. So if you guys, I don't
Speaker 3: I think it was GQ.
Speaker 2: I'm not really sure, but his name, like I said,
Speaker 2: criminologist David Wilson. He was he was sexy, Like I
Speaker 2: really enjoyed watching him, all right, cool, I enjoyed it,
Speaker 2: but then I yeah, and then I watched people talk
Speaker 2: about their movie roles.
Speaker 3: I'm a dork. All right, let's start, all.
Speaker 2: Right, let's startry. I got so sports, but it was
Speaker 2: exciting the Luca like, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: And this episode comes out on the eighteenth, and that
Speaker 1: means that this coming Sunday. If you live in Washington,
Speaker 1: DC or it's area, shit must be terrible for you
Speaker 1: right now. So come treat yourself to see us do
Speaker 1: That's Messed Up Live at the DC Improv And you
Speaker 1: can get tickets at that That's Messed uplive dot com.
Speaker 3: At that same link.
Speaker 1: You can also scroll down to Lisa's website and see
Speaker 1: all of her road dates that she's got out and
Speaker 1: about on the road.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll be in Vegas, Nashville, Minneapolis, Seattle, Austin, Providence,
Speaker 2: New Orleans, Philly, and also DC.
Speaker 1: And also DC this weekend before we're doing a Yeah,
Speaker 1: before we do our live show, she'll be doing stand ups,
Speaker 1: So get over there and.
Speaker 3: Check that out. And then yeah, thanks guys.
Speaker 4: Uh, let's get started, all right, guys, we're doing Monsters Legacy,
Speaker 4: not to be confused with Monsters Ball JK.
Speaker 3: I don't think anyone I can not confuse it.
Speaker 2: But season fourteen, episode thirteen, and yeah it's it's good.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, done done.
Speaker 2: We're at gymnastics practice, never a good place, set us
Speaker 2: to you. Yeah, there's a pommel horse. There's some want
Speaker 2: to touching. Yeah, there's a problem. The boys going wild
Speaker 2: on this pommel and he gets a cramp though, and
Speaker 2: it's really painful. So the coach starts stretching him. But
Speaker 2: there's a camera on them while they're being stretched, so
Speaker 2: not good. And then guess who sees something? Oh is
Speaker 2: that careesy? Yeah before he was caresy. He's a janitor.
Speaker 2: He's a janitor. He has long, stringy hair and he's
Speaker 2: behind the door like staring at what's happened.
Speaker 1: This one is going out to all of you that
Speaker 1: message us on the Instagram going, oh my god, did
Speaker 1: you guys know.
Speaker 3: That there's an episode where Creese is just like a
Speaker 3: like a suspect. We do and this is it we do.
Speaker 3: It's so sweet and right now.
Speaker 2: People send me a lot of Luigi's stuff and I
Speaker 2: thank you, but there's just so few, so few that
Speaker 2: like I got it all I do.
Speaker 1: There's not enough. It's just it's truly like wild. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know the case.
Speaker 2: Isn't actively happening, and I don't want the media to
Speaker 2: put out false narratives and rather silence than anything.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's all.
Speaker 1: When the trial starts, I think things will get crazy, right,
Speaker 1: I hope.
Speaker 2: Okay, So the coach is like, loosen up and the
Speaker 2: So now the janitor enters, Janitor Careesi and he enters
Speaker 2: the gym. He's looking the coach. He's like, can you
Speaker 2: go do that later? And he's like all right, and
Speaker 2: he walks away, but he's looking. You know, he's not
Speaker 2: breaking icon contact with the stretching. And then also he
Speaker 2: has a brunette bob, So if you're imagining Careese as
Speaker 2: he is now, imagine him with a brunette bob. And
Speaker 2: so now you know the boys stretched out. He goes
Speaker 2: back to the pommel horse. Now we're in a dark
Speaker 2: parking garage, the only place more dangerous than a gymnastics gym,
Speaker 2: and the coach is walking to his car. He has
Speaker 2: the accent of a gymnastics coach, so Eastern European vibes.
Speaker 2: And then he gets an attack. So he gets pushed
Speaker 2: into his trunk. The trunk closed on him with his
Speaker 2: legs hanging out and then he is stabbed in his
Speaker 2: ass over and over and over and over, and we
Speaker 2: can assume it's Creasey the janitor.
Speaker 3: We can.
Speaker 2: And anyways, so now Olivia arrives and she's in a
Speaker 2: sexy red dress and Amaro goes, wow, whoa, he's circling
Speaker 2: around her and it is flirty because what were your
Speaker 2: things that you thought they were gonna fuck and then
Speaker 2: they weren't there?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Well I always thought like a vibe very like
Speaker 1: obviously basic thoughts were like, oh, Stabler's gone, the new
Speaker 1: man and Olivia are now going to have romantic tension, you.
Speaker 3: Know, So I guess I thought that her and uh
Speaker 3: and I see it yeah, and tomorrow and.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, stuff like this, he's like, I fucking her,
Speaker 1: Like he's like, whoa, Like it's crazy. So but it's
Speaker 1: a really sexy dress. Yeah, but she's with somebody.
Speaker 2: Well okay, so then he so then he goes but
Speaker 2: it's too early for Valentine's Day like dinner, and she goes, oh, well,
Speaker 2: this new guy I'm seeing, we're not quite ready for
Speaker 2: like Valentine's Day. So we decided to do a more
Speaker 2: casual pre dinner. That's all fine, but that's not a
Speaker 2: casual pre dinner dress. You can wear that dress to
Speaker 2: a wedding that was a formal like wedding guest dress.
Speaker 2: But I don't know who she's dating, but it's probably
Speaker 2: not someone that important where it's like I'm assuming it's
Speaker 2: like I.
Speaker 3: Think, but oh, it's they need a more casual thing.
Speaker 2: It's just like you can't say it's a casual pre
Speaker 2: dinner and be dressed like you are going to an
Speaker 2: event like a fucking Oscars Woman's Nominee brunch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a Glamour Woman of the Year Brounch outfit.
Speaker 1: This is not This is not like, oh, we're just
Speaker 1: gonna like casually go out on like the twelfth or something,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, but then it's so then you know, he's like,
Speaker 2: sorry to end your shit early. But while they're like
Speaker 2: just chatting about Valentine's Day, the man is still there
Speaker 2: on a stretcher, groaning like there's a bleeding man, and
Speaker 2: they're just like, damn girl, you look hot, and he's
Speaker 2: like like he's whimpering enrolled in.
Speaker 3: Front of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's on his side with like a bloody sheet
Speaker 1: covering his butt.
Speaker 3: It's really gross.
Speaker 2: And so it's Alexey Bellia Cove and he's whimpering and
Speaker 2: he's barely holding on and basically ice pick ice, and
Speaker 2: he bled a lot.
Speaker 3: And we're in the credits. We're in the credits.
Speaker 2: So we're back from the credits. He's awake after surgery.
Speaker 2: He's talking somewhererow in Benson. He goes, I noticed the
Speaker 2: guy had Workloves boots and Olive overalls. They're like, well,
Speaker 2: is it revenge? And he gets mad and he's like,
Speaker 2: what are you talking about? I love my wife. I
Speaker 2: have good relationships with my ex wives. He has three
Speaker 2: of them. Amaro goes, okay, like what about relationships with
Speaker 2: someone you shouldn't have? Like maybe that's why you got
Speaker 2: stabbed in the ass and those no.
Speaker 3: I learned that lesson.
Speaker 2: Four years ago, a student's father accused me of being
Speaker 2: involved with his wife, and Amorro goes, were you he
Speaker 2: doesn't matter? He goes, yeah, but he tried to ruin
Speaker 2: my life and Corey tried to convince people I molested
Speaker 2: his kid. So then he's like, yeah, the old student's
Speaker 2: name is you know, Eddie. And when I went to
Speaker 2: go like talk to him, like the dad was throwing
Speaker 2: furniture and like shit was nuts. So now we're at
Speaker 2: the home of Eddie and the dad is like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, Russians are such liars. I may be kicked
Speaker 2: to chair and Finn's chatting with him and the dad.
Speaker 2: It's like, listen, you know, he said my kid had potential.
Speaker 2: We pay for private lessons, and then he goes, actually
Speaker 2: your kid sucks, and I actually I get it. I would.
Speaker 2: I would beat the shit out of this guy too.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say he molested my child if you did.
Speaker 2: Do you recognize this actors from.
Speaker 3: This is Us?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just don't care. Oh okay, well he I
Speaker 1: think he did stand up in Chicago. I was wondering
Speaker 1: if you knew him, because Jared knows him from Chicago. No,
Speaker 1: but I thought maybe you would know me. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: clue I recognized him. He was also in that like
Speaker 1: documentary about SBU guest stars. Oh I remember there was
Speaker 1: like that TV special. He talked a lot in it,
Speaker 1: and I didn't care about him though, neither.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry to this man, like I'm happy for his success,
Speaker 2: but uh yeah, I mean he's doing.
Speaker 3: A good job. So whatever.
Speaker 2: So amorrows talks inside, well, Finn stays outside with the
Speaker 2: dad Omar and this the son has like a such
Speaker 2: cutl sweater. He goes, I don't want to talk about
Speaker 2: the coach and they're like, oh, but were you stretching
Speaker 2: He goes, oh, not in that way, like, you know,
Speaker 2: not with me at least maybe another kid. Finn is
Speaker 2: with the dad and he goes, well, you know, Alexi's
Speaker 2: not gay, and the dad's like, well, we don't know that.
Speaker 2: I actually don't fucking care because after my son was
Speaker 2: not with the coach, someone came up to me and
Speaker 2: said you're better Your son is better off without him.
Speaker 2: And it's like, well who told you that? And it
Speaker 2: was someone in a jumpsuit, a lanky man. Okay, so
Speaker 2: we got careesy and he has a record. He has
Speaker 2: a record john Johnny dub dug Oh, I was just
Speaker 2: gonna say Johnny dub check. Such a crazy name they
Speaker 2: give him. So he has a record vandalism, possession disorder,
Speaker 2: early bar fights, and Rollins is about to have a
Speaker 2: little fun with him, but it's actually like, oh, cute
Speaker 2: to see it.
Speaker 3: Because now they're married.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but Finn is there too, and this guy's been
Speaker 2: clean from crimes for five years, so like, what's going
Speaker 2: on and they go, you know you could have killed
Speaker 2: him and he goes, oh who and they're like, okay,
Speaker 2: we know you see this guy every day, so like
Speaker 2: you know, we know it.
Speaker 3: We're gonna find your prince.
Speaker 2: He goes, no, you're not, and they're like why because
Speaker 2: you wear gloves like his blood's everywhere, Your blood's everywhere.
Speaker 2: So Johnny's getting shake nervous and they're like, why are
Speaker 2: you doing this? You know everyone's vouched for. Your boss
Speaker 2: said you're amazing. Your parole officer like what happened? And
Speaker 2: did something happen? Like what happened? And he goes what
Speaker 2: he does, He wouldn't try that with me. So now
Speaker 2: we're in the hospital and he's cuffed to the hospital
Speaker 2: bed the like the coach, and he goes the janitor
Speaker 2: accuse me, he's a fucking psycho. He calls the janitor
Speaker 2: an idiot, and Omarro is like, well, you tape your sessions,
Speaker 2: don't you, And he goes, well, yeah, that's the benefit
Speaker 2: of the student. The student can watch the footage and
Speaker 2: like learn and he goes, okay, what benefit to the
Speaker 2: student get from stretching.
Speaker 3: He goes, that benefits me.
Speaker 2: I tape everything because since I was accused, and so
Speaker 2: you know, for days they watch all of this footage
Speaker 2: and Finn goes ninety hours of tape and his only
Speaker 2: crime is boring me to death, like, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2: A kid wasn't raped in gymnastics practice, Finn. So then
Speaker 2: Benson talks to like dozens of people. Nobody likes the guy,
Speaker 2: but nobody said he's a pedophile, so they gotta say
Speaker 2: so to him. But also, like what do we do
Speaker 2: with I can't even say his name, dub check, so
Speaker 2: they have to, you know, they say sorry to him.
Speaker 2: They're like, my bad, I'm sorry, we thought you were
Speaker 2: a pedophile, But like, fuck, what are we gonna do with,
Speaker 2: you know, Johnny? Because something happened what triggered him? So they're,
Speaker 2: you know, he's on his way to Rikers right now.
Speaker 2: So we see him in a van. There's six other prisoners.
Speaker 2: The cops are you know, are start opening the van
Speaker 2: to take them out to like bring him into Rikers,
Speaker 2: and bam, they like, you know, the janitor has handcuffs
Speaker 2: around the other man, choking him violently.
Speaker 3: They pull them apart. What is going on? He screams,
Speaker 3: it's not my fault. It's not my fault.
Speaker 2: I said, I want to be put in with that,
Speaker 2: And Rollins and Finn are on the scene so fast
Speaker 2: and guess you know what's set careesy janitor do dub
Speaker 2: check off. He the guy he's attacking is a pedophile.
Speaker 2: He touched boy scouts. So another pedophile has been attacked.
Speaker 2: Ding Ding Ding Okay, pedophile. So we're at a raiment.
Speaker 2: He's remanded back to Rikers. He's like, you know, he
Speaker 2: tells his mom sorry, who is an oxygen tank in court?
Speaker 2: And then Rollins goes to talk to the mom and
Speaker 2: they bring up the pedophile beatings and she's like, listen,
Speaker 2: my kid's been sober and clean. There's no trouble, no
Speaker 2: fights since he you know, he was a teenager. His
Speaker 2: dad died when he was ten, and so he had
Speaker 2: a lot of problems. And they're like, well, what other
Speaker 2: men does he have in his life? And she goes, well,
Speaker 2: years later in the neighborhood, you know, this coach took
Speaker 2: an interest in Johnny and he went to some open
Speaker 2: air camp up state.
Speaker 3: He hated the camp.
Speaker 2: Johnny was homesick, but and when he got home from camp,
Speaker 2: he was just never the same. Benson says, we've seen
Speaker 2: it before, like you suffer the abuse and then you
Speaker 2: can't there's a trigger. And Omar I was like, okay, so,
Speaker 2: like I guess being shackled to another pedophile is obviously
Speaker 2: a trigger. And Craigan Daddy not having it. He's like,
Speaker 2: well the defense Kim, bring that up. I'll make sure
Speaker 2: the DA passes that along. Benson goes, wait, stop, what
Speaker 2: about the camp coach Like Martin Schultz like, can we
Speaker 2: please just like go figure out what's up with this coach?
Speaker 2: But there's no record, no accusations, there's nothing. But it's like, Craigan,
Speaker 2: shut the fuck up.
Speaker 1: Let your detectives cook, like you know, they're good at
Speaker 1: their jobs, Like, shut the fuck up.
Speaker 3: So they go to this camp and it's Ed Asner.
Speaker 2: Yeah, who I only know by face and name and
Speaker 2: nothing else.
Speaker 3: Yeah, tap dance for a comedian? And what is he?
Speaker 3: Why are we supposed to know Ed Asner?
Speaker 2: He's like, and I feel it's like, okay, Casey, come
Speaker 2: teach us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Casey, I thought you lead in to tell us.
Speaker 3: Do you know at apples Well, he was.
Speaker 1: On he's on Mary The Mary Tyler Moore Show, which
Speaker 1: is set in Minneapolis, so he's beloved here. Okay, So
Speaker 1: Mary Tyler Moore Show, I feel like is what he's
Speaker 1: most famous.
Speaker 2: Okay, got it all right? So Mary Tyler Moore Show. Cool, cool, cool,
Speaker 2: And he's wearing a bad news he's hat, there's a
Speaker 2: log cabin. This man's guilty, but he's playing old confused
Speaker 2: man and he's like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember
Speaker 2: that boy. He was a Mets fan. He wore the
Speaker 2: same T shirt every day and then he'd like babbles.
Speaker 2: But he goes, oh, your cops, what did he do?
Speaker 2: And they're like, yeah, he assaulted too many and he's
Speaker 2: going away for a very long time.
Speaker 3: So then ad Asner is.
Speaker 2: Like, oh yeah, great student, good kid, and the detect
Speaker 2: we're like, well he was until you know he came
Speaker 2: to camp. But the guy goes, it's too cold, let's
Speaker 2: go inside. He gets them hot chocolate because it's good
Speaker 2: for the soul, and then Benson finally brings up the
Speaker 2: abuse question and he's like, hey, I gotta stop you.
Speaker 2: I know these days everyone's gonna be asking questions, but
Speaker 2: I don't tolerate devians. And if I saw any counselor
Speaker 2: anyone look at a kids sideways, I would have knocked
Speaker 2: him on his ass and put him on the bus.
Speaker 2: And he's chewing and being casual, like, you know, just
Speaker 2: hanging out. He goes, I'm a friend to kids, pedophile,
Speaker 2: you don't say friend to kids. Sorry, sorry, sorry. He
Speaker 2: wants to change these kids' lives. He wishes he could
Speaker 2: have done more for Johnny and the others, but he couldn't,
Speaker 2: you know, he goes fatherless kids. Try as you might,
Speaker 2: but you can't fill that hole, right, detective. Okay, guys,
Speaker 2: we've been holding for my radiator. It's not stopping. So
Speaker 2: if you hear what you guys have nicknamed the sword fights,
Speaker 2: deal with it. We can't keep waiting. Okay, it's actually quiet. Now, okay,
Speaker 2: this is good. But I mean I can't even believe it.
Speaker 2: I can't try as you might write, Detective. I mean,
Speaker 2: I cannot believe how does he know?
Speaker 3: How did he know? Yeah, she doesn't.
Speaker 2: Give off and it's not like he could have researched
Speaker 2: her before in this like a Sebastian Valentine moment, Like
Speaker 2: what the fuck?
Speaker 3: She shocked?
Speaker 2: She goes excuse me. He says, it's all right, honey,
Speaker 2: you've done good. I mean you could have gone the
Speaker 2: other way too. So now it's tomorrow and Benson pleading
Speaker 2: Craigan like, oh my god, he's a straight up sociopath, Like,
Speaker 2: let us fucking get his ass. She's like, he spent
Speaker 2: the whole time reading us, like, oh ha ha, chocolate,
Speaker 2: it was all a fucking act. And I'm like, trust
Speaker 2: your detectives. And he goes, well, over fifty years and
Speaker 2: not one complaint. I mean he's never been like charged
Speaker 2: for decades, Like something's going on. Benson goes, I know,
Speaker 2: but like these predators know how to pick their victims,
Speaker 2: and they're like following Craigan around the whole precinct.
Speaker 3: He's trying to escape them.
Speaker 2: Rollins is there, and then Rollins has a whole corkboard
Speaker 2: and it's bunches of mug shots and she goes, maybe
Speaker 2: not complaints, but a wake of damage. Dozens of kids
Speaker 2: in prison now for assault and rape and murder.
Speaker 3: I mean, we talk about this all the time. It's
Speaker 3: just like.
Speaker 2: It's like abuse, the ripple effect, Like our society is
Speaker 2: fucked because of abusers and believing kids like so cyclical
Speaker 2: and huge, and just to think about like all the
Speaker 2: people that are holding on to like these dark secrets
Speaker 2: and acting out and can't and then like no support
Speaker 2: and then are treated like they're the problem. It's like,
Speaker 2: so fuck, your kid comes back from camp and he's
Speaker 2: not the same.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like what the fuck? Yeah? It is a
Speaker 3: fucking vicious cycle, so scary.
Speaker 2: You know, like dozens of these kids straight from that
Speaker 2: camp are in prison for assault, rape and murder, Like
Speaker 2: what the fuck? And you know a lot of and
Speaker 2: he and Craigan's like, well a lot of sexual trauma
Speaker 2: ends up in silence and shame and they're like, whatever
Speaker 2: this guy did. This is ground zero for a second
Speaker 2: generation epidemic of like crime and fucked up stuff and
Speaker 2: so much chamage. And finally he goes, this won't be easy,
Speaker 2: but like let's try to get some complaints. So Rollin says,
Speaker 2: what do you mean complaint? We have a whole board
Speaker 2: of witnesses, and he goes, convict, that's not They're not human,
Speaker 2: like crazy is crazy? No, he goes, they're own reliable witnesses.
Speaker 2: And I get that because of our you know, stigma
Speaker 2: too everything. Yeah, and maybe individually but there's like a
Speaker 2: clear pattern, so like they have to prove it that
Speaker 2: there's one of them, Like there's one abuser they have
Speaker 2: in common that's better than individually.
Speaker 3: So like maybe that could prove a pattern.
Speaker 2: And it doesn't matter that they're like incarcerated and if
Speaker 2: it is, like prisoners don't really want to admit they
Speaker 2: were abused because hella, oh prison, right, But one of
Speaker 2: these guys he doesn't have to worry about chatting because
Speaker 2: he's on death row. Thank god. You know, there's got
Speaker 2: to be a perk somewhere. So since he's on death
Speaker 2: row and he's in Ohio and he sentenced to die
Speaker 2: in ten days, maybe he can be the start of
Speaker 2: this case. And who is it? But you know, canted
Speaker 2: rapist Mike Tyson. So should we like talk about this?
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like yeah, in nineteen ninety two, he
Speaker 2: was convicted of rape and sentenced to six years in prison.
Speaker 2: He was released on parole after three years, So convicted rapists, Like,
Speaker 2: but we know he was abused.
Speaker 3: That's why he collects pigeons. Is that the whole thing?
Speaker 2: Like this is an odd choice, I would say for
Speaker 2: a show like this, but I am sure they weren't
Speaker 2: ignorant to this, so like, what do you think that is?
Speaker 3: Like what, I'm always very shocked.
Speaker 1: I was always like, wait, SVU like got a convicted
Speaker 1: rapist to guest star on the show.
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, they.
Speaker 1: Had the guy from they had the guy the dad
Speaker 1: from seventh heven. I don't think they knew yet, you know,
Speaker 1: like they've had some people on that have later been
Speaker 1: convicted of stuff, but like, yeah, he he he just
Speaker 1: he admitted to being molested as a child. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean that service time. Maybe that's what they're trying to
Speaker 1: do with the casting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so obviously you know, has a past of crime
Speaker 2: and abuse and was convicted of right, but also molested
Speaker 2: as a child. So I understand the complications. I mean,
Speaker 2: this is the complications of all of it. You know,
Speaker 2: it's like really hard because you know, I'm thinking about
Speaker 2: the firefighter inmates and stuff like that and getting a
Speaker 2: second chances living more like rehabilitation, giving access like understanding
Speaker 2: the traumas and all of that. But then also, yeah,
Speaker 2: it is scary. I don't know, I don't fucking know.
Speaker 2: It's just so loaded. I mean they asked him for
Speaker 2: a reason. If we get Warren Light, we can talk
Speaker 2: to him about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's start a document that'll be question once so
Speaker 1: we don't forget.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to ask Warren Light about this kind
Speaker 2: of decision. So they bring up Martin the ed Asner
Speaker 2: to him and he's like, I'd rather not speak about it.
Speaker 2: Benson and Finn are like working him, and Tyson's like.
Speaker 3: Well, why why right now? Like why not?
Speaker 2: Then?
Speaker 3: Like why suddenly you're into it.
Speaker 2: She's like, well, we're just finding out about it and
Speaker 2: what he did to those boys, and we want to
Speaker 2: punish him and Mike. Tyson's like, I don't want to
Speaker 2: think about any of this. I don't want to think
Speaker 2: about any of them. And Benson goes them and Finn goes,
Speaker 2: I mean at trial, the guy you killed said that
Speaker 2: it was a stranger. Is there more to it? And
Speaker 2: he looks up and he goes, it doesn't matter. I
Speaker 2: killed him. I can't take it back. I'm trying to
Speaker 2: stay at peace. Now, get the hell out of here,
Speaker 2: screams through, like through the bars, and then so like,
Speaker 2: what do we do?
Speaker 3: You know what we do? We call Andre Brower, That's
Speaker 3: what we do. Baby.
Speaker 2: We got Bayard Ellis amazing defense attorney and we need
Speaker 2: his help deep voiced legend, baby rest in peace. And
Speaker 2: he is like, you need help with a death row case?
Speaker 2: Or am I doing Svu's job And Benson goes, damn, dude,
Speaker 2: A little bit of both fuck.
Speaker 3: And he's like, he's like, so you're asking me a favor.
Speaker 3: You're not angry with me anymore?
Speaker 2: And she takes the sip of her drink and goes,
Speaker 2: I was never angry, and he's like, you had a
Speaker 2: right to be. I blew up your relationship with David
Speaker 2: Hadden Hayden Hayden.
Speaker 3: And is that Henry Connick junior? H yeah, Harry Connick Junior.
Speaker 3: Why are these names so hard for me?
Speaker 2: So she goes, I was angry, but I knew that
Speaker 2: you were doing right by your client. And she goes,
Speaker 2: please look at Reggie's case. The DA said it was
Speaker 2: a robbery gone bad, but nothing was taken and the
Speaker 2: man who was killed had two prior solicitations for young
Speaker 2: black men. And he goes and it never came out
Speaker 2: at trial and she goes, no, Reggie mentioned like, none
Speaker 2: of it, and he's like, biting it for the bait,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean he's biting, he's nailing, and
Speaker 2: so he wants in and the timeline's tight. If we
Speaker 2: don't help him, he dies in nine fucking days. I
Speaker 2: just hate this and like this this whole episode. I'm
Speaker 2: sorry to go on a tangent, but this whole episode
Speaker 2: was so hard to watch knowing this administration is so
Speaker 2: trigger happy to murder at federal crimes and thinking about
Speaker 2: the last case where like evidence was coming out and
Speaker 2: the governor goes, I don't give a fuck kill killing
Speaker 2: a person when evidence can come out to save him, Like, in.
Speaker 1: What world is that normal? Who wasn't even the person
Speaker 1: who did committed the crime? By the way, that guy
Speaker 1: was an accessory.
Speaker 2: Okay, So now Mike Tyson is doing a little more talking,
Speaker 2: you know, because it's not too late, and the governor
Speaker 2: can grant clemency and Bayard Ellis is compelling and now
Speaker 2: like maybe Benson didn't work, by like Ellis is definitely
Speaker 2: gonna work. And he goes, listen, if the parole board
Speaker 2: recommends this, and that your old lawyer that you had
Speaker 2: sucked and he never brought any of this up, like
Speaker 2: you know you can, we can save your life, and
Speaker 2: they bring up the camp in his childhood and what
Speaker 2: was brought up before the trial, and he goes, nothing,
Speaker 2: I met the lawyer the day before my trial. They
Speaker 2: didn't talk much, and Benson's like, well we can talk now, okay, Reggie,
Speaker 2: we need you to tell us what happened at Martin's camp.
Speaker 2: He doesn't want to. He wants to let it go
Speaker 2: and forgive everyone, even his mom. And they go, well
Speaker 2: what did she do? And he says for sending me
Speaker 2: back to Martin's camp. So they're outside and they're like, fuck,
Speaker 2: what are the chances? And Ellis is like, dude with
Speaker 2: a fucked up trial, like if o Hio kills him,
Speaker 2: that state sanctioned murder.
Speaker 3: And that I mean that happened within the year.
Speaker 2: We are living in a time where there was evidence
Speaker 2: to come out to help a man and they decided no,
Speaker 2: not worth it, not worth it to wait. Yeah, He's like,
Speaker 2: you got any vacation time accused? So then Ellis this
Speaker 2: is the best. So then Ellis asked, Benson, you know
Speaker 2: they're in Ohio. He's like, you got any vacation time
Speaker 2: accumulated to work on this with me? And she goes,
Speaker 2: I have about fifty to sixty weeks worth. She could
Speaker 2: take a year of vacation and still be getting paid, like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because whenever they tell her to take a couple
Speaker 1: of days, she's like, no, I got to finish the case.
Speaker 3: She never fucking takes the vacation.
Speaker 1: We know she's gone on the Bahamas once and I
Speaker 1: love them in winterwear and it's really coold.
Speaker 2: You can see their breath, you know. So yeah, we
Speaker 2: got to go talk to the public public defenders. So
Speaker 2: they're talking to this public defender. He looks at the file.
Speaker 2: He goes, oh, yeah, Jerry, decide in forty minutes.
Speaker 3: What do you want?
Speaker 2: And Ellis is like, okay, well you're you know, you
Speaker 2: could have gone and asked for clemency, Like what's going on?
Speaker 2: He's like, fuck that Rhodes was the only witness for
Speaker 2: the defense. He lied on the stand. He said he
Speaker 2: wasn't there, but the victim's blood was on his shoes
Speaker 2: and he said he did it. And Ellis goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: but the old attorney only met with him like for
Speaker 2: one day before his trial, and he goes, yeah. That
Speaker 2: lawyer was eventually disbarred. Like that's what's crazy too. It's
Speaker 2: just like personal people like people's lives are in the
Speaker 2: hands of disbarred maniacs who don't care that shopa day before.
Speaker 3: I mean, it is okay.
Speaker 2: So then this dude they're talking to looks uh, looks
Speaker 2: up and goes, listen, people are entitled to counsel, not
Speaker 2: the quality of the council. And Ellis goes, damn like
Speaker 2: mean mugs him, and Benson's like, listen, we found an
Speaker 2: abusive abuse background.
Speaker 3: He's like, yeah, that's most of the cases.
Speaker 2: The governor doesn't pardon murderers because they had a bad childhood.
Speaker 2: And Ellis has lost his patience and he's like, it
Speaker 2: took me two seconds to find out that the murder
Speaker 2: dude had like solicitation charges against young men, and I
Speaker 2: need to prove that the defense attorney did not bring
Speaker 2: that shit to the jury but should have. And the
Speaker 2: dude stands up and goes, all right, it's just it's
Speaker 2: it's bad.
Speaker 3: What do you fucking want?
Speaker 2: Like, you know what I do is triage, Like I
Speaker 2: have people on death row for crimes they didn't even commit,
Speaker 2: Like this guy, a dan murder someone. What do you
Speaker 2: want from me? He goes, And if you think you
Speaker 2: could do a better job have at it, and Elis goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's what I fucking wanted. So they get all the infos.
Speaker 2: So Benson's back at like tyson seal and they need
Speaker 2: him to talk, like they need him to talk, give
Speaker 2: us more. You know, you guys said you didn't know him,
Speaker 2: but we know that he hired you for odd jobs.
Speaker 2: What was the odd job? How did you end up
Speaker 2: in his home? What was going on? He goes, stop,
Speaker 2: this is over. You know, it's like days before the death,
Speaker 2: Like I don't want like he doesn't want to, and
Speaker 2: that's how strong the shame is, Like you're dying in
Speaker 2: a few days and you still don't want to tell anyone.
Speaker 2: Ellis leaves to give Benson, you know, her time to shine.
Speaker 3: She she is the master of victims.
Speaker 2: So then he finally starts talking immediately like she actually
Speaker 2: doesn't have to do much, like just her presence in
Speaker 2: this moment finally got him to talk his uncle. I
Speaker 2: think him leaving the room too, like him not having
Speaker 2: to confess it in front of like another man is
Speaker 2: kind of like a little bit what gave her some
Speaker 2: of the yeah trust but also her yeah yeah, And
Speaker 2: so this is all really sad. So basically, his uncle
Speaker 2: put his mouth on him and he said, now you're
Speaker 2: a big boy, and this is what big boys do
Speaker 2: with men. And then it cuts to Benson in the
Speaker 2: car explaining everything else she heard to Ellis, and it's
Speaker 2: probably because Mike Tyson's not that good of an actor.
Speaker 2: And so after the uncle, it was the mother's boyfriend,
Speaker 2: and then the mom's pimp, and then at ten it
Speaker 2: was a teacher at school.
Speaker 3: These predators have such a radar.
Speaker 2: And then three years at camp and by the end
Speaker 2: Schultz was passing him around to all the other men,
Speaker 2: and Reggie drops out of school, hitchhikes and ends up
Speaker 2: in Ohio. Dan First starts paying him for sex for
Speaker 2: over a year, and then one night after dan Forth
Speaker 2: was done with him, three other men walked into the
Speaker 2: garage worked him over all night, and then the next
Speaker 2: day Reggie comes back and kills him, kills dan Forth.
Speaker 3: Mike Tyson.
Speaker 2: Actually, Reggie was like, you know, I told the lawyer
Speaker 2: that the jury should hear this, and that his lawyer
Speaker 2: says him, it's best to just say you weren't even
Speaker 2: there at all. The lawyer is dead, though, but we
Speaker 2: need to get this information to the parole board, and
Speaker 2: we need confirmation of two tracks to like get this going.
Speaker 2: We need like the dan Forth information and what happened
Speaker 2: to him as a child. So Finn is talking to
Speaker 2: his sister, who works at Saint Michael's Hospital in the Bronx,
Speaker 2: and says, like, the uncle abused me at first, and
Speaker 2: then I'm mature, so like moved on to Reggie. And
Speaker 2: she's like, I was just glad it wasn't me anymore.
Speaker 2: I would stay at the library till close and read.
Speaker 2: And Finn's like, yeah, you're lucky. You know you got
Speaker 2: out put your brother's on death row. She says, I
Speaker 2: pray for him every day, and Finn is like, well,
Speaker 2: you know what he went through and it was more
Speaker 2: than just your uncle. And I know you couldn't protect
Speaker 2: him growing up, but help him now. Rollin's and tomorrow
Speaker 2: give Sheltz a visit. And you could tell Rollins is
Speaker 2: sickened by this man. And he's like, oh my god, Reggie,
Speaker 2: when he came here, he didn't even have a toothbrush.
Speaker 3: He says, oh yeah, his mom was a crack addict.
Speaker 2: Twelve year old kid with a long rap sheet, but
Speaker 2: sweet kid, and you know, no one helped him, but
Speaker 2: me like, and then a young boy arrives. A young
Speaker 2: boy arrives. He's like, oh my god, this is so scary.
Speaker 2: He looks scared, he has a watering can. I'm so sad.
Speaker 2: And then Asner's like, I thought you were working on
Speaker 2: the dupe check dub Chack. Why can't I say his
Speaker 2: name dub Check? And it's like, well, they both came
Speaker 2: to this camp. And he's getting defensive and he's like,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, like, and he hasn't asked her an excuse
Speaker 2: for everything, like these people usually do. And Omar was like, okay,
Speaker 2: we're not saying it was you, but you told us
Speaker 2: if there's any whiff of trouble you'd kick out the
Speaker 2: counselor that did something. So did anything happen? And he shouts,
Speaker 2: you want me to lie? Rollins goes, well, the statue
Speaker 2: of limitations is gone, so you can talk and there's
Speaker 2: no liability for you or the camp. He looks stunned.
Speaker 2: He screams, get the hell out of here. I don't
Speaker 2: want that boy upstairs to hear any of this. Get out.
Speaker 2: He looks pissed. I want him dead. So then they
Speaker 2: go but I'm against the death penalty, okay. So they go.
Speaker 3: Talk to.
Speaker 2: It's like, fuck, that's why it's all so complicated. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I remembering it to do death penalty debates in high school.
Speaker 3: Me too. I wrote a paper about it, like fifth
Speaker 3: grade or something. Fifth grade.
Speaker 1: Yeah, capital punishment, fifth grade.
Speaker 2: So they go talk to this assistant prosecutor from that case.
Speaker 2: It was her first murder trial, and then the like
Speaker 2: it was her first time as lead counsel and she had,
Speaker 2: you know, like someone higher than her press, like the
Speaker 2: DA was her lead. What's it called, like a supervising Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And she said it was a good case. It was
Speaker 2: a good case to cut my teeth on a man's
Speaker 2: fucking life. The courthouse in Ohio is gorgeous though, marble, gold, filigree, green.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 2: She goes it was an open and shutcase. What do
Speaker 2: you want And Benson's like, well, no, it's not. And
Speaker 2: she keeps trying to walk away and like you know,
Speaker 2: throwing stuff, and she's getting really defensive, and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I was given the solicitation information and it's public record,
Speaker 2: and I gave it to the defense and they didn't
Speaker 2: use it. That's not my fault, and Benson seems suspicious
Speaker 2: since she's like, well, there are people, and Benson seems suspicious.
Speaker 2: And then this woman is like, there are people on
Speaker 2: death row that deserve clemency, but Reggie deserves to die,
Speaker 2: and you get to decide. Fuck, you get to decide
Speaker 2: who deserves to die. Also, I recognize this woman that's
Speaker 2: playing the lawyer, so I looked her up and she
Speaker 2: plays Sarah Hyland's mom in the Hothouse episode. Remember when
Speaker 2: she's like freaking out and she's like, we did do this.
Speaker 2: We did like we had to get the straight a's
Speaker 2: and blah blah, and it's not fair.
Speaker 3: She's smarter than me. And the mom's like, calm down,
Speaker 3: that's the mom.
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, it's like a real woman, so we
Speaker 2: can't be mean about her. But I'm like, you thin
Speaker 2: lipped bitch, because she's a good actor. She's a good actor.
Speaker 2: I hate her. So then you know, she goes off
Speaker 2: and Benson's like, wow, she seems defensive and he goes listen,
Speaker 2: she told us everything we actually needed to know. That
Speaker 2: the lawyer was given the record and didn't use it.
Speaker 2: That speaks to negligence, you know, Is that enough and
Speaker 2: it's like enough for a pearl board hearing, let's go.
Speaker 2: So his sister's talking to the board. Reggie is listening
Speaker 2: in a cage in the corner, and at seventeen, she
Speaker 2: saw his bloody under her when he was thirteen, and
Speaker 2: her mom saw it too and didn't say a fucking word.
Speaker 3: The mom was using.
Speaker 2: She felt sorry for Reggie, but she couldn't fight her
Speaker 2: and the mom's boyfriend, and she told the defense attorney
Speaker 2: about it, but his lawyer told her to shut the
Speaker 2: fuck up, and the jury did not need to know
Speaker 2: that Reggie.
Speaker 3: Was a homo.
Speaker 2: It's going good, and yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's so hard.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be even harder to do this podcast with
Speaker 2: the new administrat because in my head him like everything
Speaker 2: that's disappearing and all the like things they want to
Speaker 2: hide and suppress, Like it's gonna just affect every you know,
Speaker 2: if you're not allowed to be publicly gay and then
Speaker 2: not like cases like this, like this lawyer, what a
Speaker 2: piece of shit.
Speaker 3: You'd rather.
Speaker 2: His client be sentenced to death then know that it
Speaker 2: was molested, And like just because you're molested, that doesn't
Speaker 2: mean you're gay, Like, yeah, you know, it's just gonna
Speaker 2: make everything so complicated.
Speaker 3: Yeah, whatever, So the.
Speaker 2: Pearl Board hearing is going good, but you know, the
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes left of this episode, so come on, use
Speaker 2: your user brains. So the woman in the cream suit
Speaker 2: speaks and and so then Ellis also, besides the sister's testimony,
Speaker 2: brings seven signed affidavits from og jurors saying if they
Speaker 2: knew about his past, they wouldn't have sentenced him to death.
Speaker 2: The man speaks and takes off his glasses, which is
Speaker 2: never good if someone takes off his glasses. He has
Speaker 2: something bad to say and goes. So now he admits
Speaker 2: to the murder. He denied the murder. Why would he
Speaker 2: admit it now? And it's like, are you not hearing
Speaker 2: any of this? And the lawyer like, I don't understand.
Speaker 2: I don't understand what is happening? Are you not hearing
Speaker 2: any of this? Okay, So they so basically, this board
Speaker 2: has twenty four hours to make the decision.
Speaker 3: So now we wait.
Speaker 2: So they go talk to him and his you know
Speaker 2: cell and the Borough board voted five to four against Reggie,
Speaker 2: and he's like, what the fuck?
Speaker 1: How?
Speaker 2: And so Benson and Ellis are now at a counter
Speaker 2: there's a lot of muffins, and Benson's like, what the
Speaker 2: fuck they read the defense was unconstitutionally deficient, So what
Speaker 2: is going on?
Speaker 3: This doesn't make sense? What am I missing?
Speaker 2: And Ellis was like, well, four of those five votes
Speaker 2: are ex cops and CEOs, and Benson's like, yeah, they
Speaker 2: were like rolling their eyes while their you know, while
Speaker 2: the sister talks. And then the fifth one, she asked
Speaker 2: all the right questions. She's this woman in the cream suit,
Speaker 2: she's being positive, she's the head of social services.
Speaker 3: What's going on?
Speaker 2: And Alice goes, well, guess what, she should have fucking
Speaker 2: recused herself for bias and not even been on this
Speaker 2: because he got an off the record call that morning
Speaker 2: that said that that Cream's suited bitch is married to
Speaker 2: Jim Harrison, who is the lead prosecutor who supervised the
Speaker 2: thin lipped lawyer, and that she cut her case on
Speaker 2: Reggie's trial.
Speaker 3: Yes, this is a big dune. Done. Was that clear? Yes?
Speaker 1: Okay, so she shouldn't even be on this because she's
Speaker 1: married to a man that was involved in the original case. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like that's that these people are evil, putting someone to
Speaker 1: death for ea for your husband's record, Like because it's
Speaker 1: gonna because it's gonna like take away something from your
Speaker 1: husband's like like you know, stats as how many convictions
Speaker 1: he's gotten.
Speaker 2: Oh but guess what ellis there's one last shot. Okay,
Speaker 2: so well, and then Benzic goes who was rigged and
Speaker 2: he's like, well, it's been rigged against Reggie from the start.
Speaker 2: You know, he had like a crackhead mom like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's been rigged against him.
Speaker 3: So now they're at the judge's office.
Speaker 2: Who's like, wow, these are huge accusations like that the
Speaker 2: prosecutors or defense like hit evidence.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: And he's like yeah, they fucking suck. And she goes, well,
Speaker 2: he's had twenty years to work on this. Why is
Speaker 2: it like five days before? This seems like a hail Mary?
Speaker 2: And it's like, ya, it is, it is. It's yeah,
Speaker 2: the life they're begging. She won't grant a stay of
Speaker 2: execution though, She says, you can have the files and
Speaker 2: you have till noon to figure something out. And he goes,
Speaker 2: it's only five o'clock. It's not even twenty four hours.
Speaker 2: She goes, take it or leave it. He goes, yeah, thanks,
Speaker 2: your honor you dumb hunt. And so then Benson and
Speaker 2: Baird are in a hotel room, files photos everywhere, papers, papers, papers,
Speaker 2: looking for clues and they find a clue. So like
Speaker 2: in the crime scene of dan Forth, there's blood everywhere,
Speaker 2: but in the middle of all the blood, there's like
Speaker 2: a square area that's sanate, like that's clean, So there
Speaker 2: was no blood there, so something was there. But this
Speaker 2: means these photos are of a sanitized crime scene. What
Speaker 2: was that square? What we find out they're polaroids, their photos.
Speaker 2: Stacks of photos were taken away and not shown. They
Speaker 2: fell on the floor during like the struggle when you know,
Speaker 2: Mike Heysen came back and so then he saw all
Speaker 2: the photos and that's what set him off because there
Speaker 2: was like photos of the assaults and rapes and he
Speaker 2: didn't want them scene and so so the photos are
Speaker 2: what set him off. He hates photos. So who else
Speaker 2: took photos of him? Because in the cell I missed
Speaker 2: this through the recap, but like he why did he
Speaker 2: say doesn't take photos? There was like a scene like
Speaker 2: h he goes, I don't like to have my picture.
Speaker 1: Taken because I think, yeah, because he's saying I don't
Speaker 1: want my pearshaken. And then I think he's saying because
Speaker 1: I know been happening, like it happened when he was
Speaker 1: a kid.
Speaker 2: Oh he never said it before it happened here, right, yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: so then you know he doesn't like having his photos taken.
Speaker 2: He just does not like it, the photos or what
Speaker 2: set him off. So that means and there had They're like,
Speaker 2: oh other photos and videos exist, so like who else
Speaker 2: did that? So now they're talking to Janitor Carisi zop
Speaker 2: Check and it was you know what that last name
Speaker 2: reminds me of the other two.
Speaker 3: Isn't that their last name? Do Beck? Yeah? Is bec
Speaker 3: in that? Yeah? I'm like, why am I so fucking
Speaker 3: right now?
Speaker 2: But Janitor crisis like it was humiliating Coach Schultz videotape
Speaker 2: me and him in the basement and if he said
Speaker 2: he and then said if I told anyone, he would
Speaker 2: show everyone the photos. So it's like, yeah, that's why
Speaker 2: there hasn't been a complaint fifty years. Craig in Yeah,
Speaker 2: he doesn't want anyone to know, like he wants help,
Speaker 2: Like he just doesn't want anyone to know about these photos.
Speaker 2: But it's rush time. We got to save this man's life.
Speaker 2: So Finn and Tomorrow are walking out of the prison
Speaker 2: being like, fuck statue of limitations, like what are we
Speaker 2: gonna do? Are we gonna get this guy? And Tomorrow goes, no, dude,
Speaker 2: not for possession of child porn. There's no limits. So
Speaker 2: we need to find the fucking photos. So Schultz remembers
Speaker 2: details of what boys wore, so that means he probably
Speaker 2: watches these all the time, Like why would he remember.
Speaker 3: Years ago?
Speaker 1: Wow, I didn't even catch that. Yeah, we need to
Speaker 1: find this shit.
Speaker 2: So it's a full on search at this house and
Speaker 2: the little boy in the watering can comes out and
Speaker 2: Tomorrow's trying to like talk to him to try to
Speaker 2: get information, and then it cuts back to court and
Speaker 2: the prosecutor bitches on the stand and I can't wait
Speaker 2: for Ellis to get her asked. So then she was like,
Speaker 2: the the murderer was brutal as fuck, and I was
Speaker 2: trying to get justice for the murdered person, and I
Speaker 2: worked hard every single day and the fact and the
Speaker 2: Adiada court. So then we're back to the search going on,
Speaker 2: and Pablo goes, well, Schultz asked me to burn all
Speaker 2: of this after you came looking around and it's all
Speaker 2: these burnt up videotapes and all this evidence and he's
Speaker 2: and Omar's like, you burnt it all, and Pablo goes
Speaker 2: the fire ran out before everything was burnt.
Speaker 3: Okay. Back to trial.
Speaker 2: Alice is like, Okay, you said that they were strangers,
Speaker 2: but they had a prior relationship. So did you know
Speaker 2: about everything about the case or do you suck at
Speaker 2: your job? And she's like, yeah, there's evidence theying to
Speaker 2: each other. And she's not shaken. She has an answer
Speaker 2: for everything. And then we're back at the house. So
Speaker 2: then the g I love his car. It sucks. So
Speaker 2: jeep Grand Cherokee pulls up and the pedophile camp guy
Speaker 2: and he's screaming.
Speaker 3: He's like, get out of here, blah blah blah, you
Speaker 3: need a warrant. And then he.
Speaker 2: Starts screaming like the house doesn't include the shed.
Speaker 3: You can't be in my shed. This is illegal. He
Speaker 3: starts talking about things being an admissible in court or not.
Speaker 2: And for for you just to be a camp director
Speaker 2: and know all this legal shit, like clearly you're a criminal.
Speaker 2: You've known yeah, And so Rollins goes, shut up. It
Speaker 2: SAIDs property, not house. And he looks at Pablo and
Speaker 2: is like, I gave you everything. I told you to
Speaker 2: do one thing. How fuck dare you? And then he
Speaker 2: grabs the little boy's neck and pulls him down and says,
Speaker 2: you sold me out, your little bastard. So Omaro grabs
Speaker 2: his ass and he keeps using more legal terms. I'm
Speaker 2: the boy's legal guardian, you fucking creep and whatever. He
Speaker 2: keeps screaming, and the watering canboy is scared, so then
Speaker 2: he calls everyone idiots. I'm the only father they ever had.
Speaker 2: So we're back in court and then we're back to
Speaker 2: blood and the square of the photos. That's like, what's
Speaker 2: going on in court right now? So they were missing
Speaker 2: and she never got them. So Alice is like, let
Speaker 2: me get this straight. You didn't investigate mister dan Force's
Speaker 2: criminal history of soliciting the young men. You knew nothing
Speaker 2: about mister Rhodes's history of sexual abuse, and you knew
Speaker 2: nothing about dan Forth like paying mister Rhodes for sex.
Speaker 2: So are you bad at your job or did you
Speaker 2: intentionally hide all of this from the defense. She goes
Speaker 2: absolutely not, I would have never done that, and the
Speaker 2: sister and Benson are in the stands and they like
Speaker 2: kind of give a look to each other like fuck
Speaker 2: you did, bitch, And so then they hate her and
Speaker 2: hopefully Ellis is gonna bury her. She goes, Okay, I
Speaker 2: guess I could have fucked up a little, but it's
Speaker 2: because of my inexperience. I would have never purposely withhold
Speaker 2: evidence to put a man on death row. But also, like,
Speaker 2: what the fuck is up with the process like the
Speaker 2: DA's office that they would put like someone's first lead
Speaker 2: case to be a capital punishment case. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 2: got so fucked up. But don't worry, because he has
Speaker 2: more evidence. And he hands her a bunch of notes, right,
Speaker 2: and it's like an envelope, and he goes, what's on
Speaker 2: the outside of the envelope And it says to mister
Speaker 2: Harrison from mL Marnie Lathrop and that's her, okay, and
Speaker 2: so and it says FYEO for your eyes only, not
Speaker 2: to be shared with the defense, and now read from
Speaker 2: this page, bitch. And it's in her handwriting, and what
Speaker 2: does it say? And she goes, I don't want to
Speaker 2: use this language. It makes me feel uncomfortable. And he goes, well,
Speaker 2: you wrote it, so why don't you say it? Yeah,
Speaker 2: and the judge gets mad, and the judge goes read it,
Speaker 2: and so she's pissed, but she has to read it.
Speaker 2: And now that she's a perjury bitch, I can't wait.
Speaker 2: Let's put her on the death row. So further notes.
Speaker 2: So then this is what it says on the notes.
Speaker 2: Further notes on the F word squad Reggie Rhoades odd
Speaker 2: jobs for Reggie Danforth may refer to sexual favors. Enclosed
Speaker 2: envelope contains photos found at scene, sexually explicit images of
Speaker 2: victim and defendant. Does that jog your memory, bitch? And
Speaker 2: the photos are in the envelope.
Speaker 3: And even when.
Speaker 2: This became a death penalty case, she held onto these
Speaker 2: photos that she had. She knew she had them, she
Speaker 2: did not bring them up. And now you're perjuring on
Speaker 2: the fucking stand. So she didn't share them with anyone
Speaker 2: but her supervisor. And it's like Ellis got her. The
Speaker 2: sister looks satisfied. Benson touches the sister's knee, like we
Speaker 2: got her. The judges disgusted, grants a stay of execution.
Speaker 2: You know, death warrant will expire. Benson and Ellis share
Speaker 2: a beautiful. Look Benson and the sister hug.
Speaker 3: We won.
Speaker 2: We won, Reggie, the state will look at the case.
Speaker 2: We got you a new trial. You're gonna be moved
Speaker 2: to a different prison. He hugs both of them. At Asner, though,
Speaker 2: is in shackles. He's not in an orange jumpsuit, he's
Speaker 2: in a brown one. And he's like being walked into prison.
Speaker 2: And guess who's in the bars, in behind the bars
Speaker 2: looking at him walking into prison the janitor.
Speaker 3: So now the janitor behind bars.
Speaker 2: Is seeing the person that like molested him in the prison.
Speaker 2: And that's a crazy end because in my head, I'm like,
Speaker 2: do you think he's like fuck, yeah, the guy's arrested,
Speaker 2: or like, oh, I'm gonna stab him.
Speaker 3: Like what do you think is going? Like what is
Speaker 3: this end?
Speaker 2: Do you think obviously that's sick wolf baby? But like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm curious.
Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you the real cases and we'll see
Speaker 1: what's up, because I think Carreese janitor has like nothing
Speaker 1: to lose.
Speaker 3: He's not gonna see daylight again. He's like he, well,
Speaker 3: he murdered.
Speaker 1: Well, actually he's actually just has two assault cases. Nobody
Speaker 1: died of the guys he attacked so he could get out.
Speaker 3: So I don't know.
Speaker 1: I hope he doesn't murder the guy and get life,
Speaker 1: but we'll see. That's I'm sure he'll make his lifetime
Speaker 1: in prison very difficult.
Speaker 3: At least. There are a lot of.
Speaker 1: Cases that this draws from, So I'm gonna dive right
Speaker 1: in the first. Okay, the dub check part of this
Speaker 1: episode is based I think on John Gagan. John Joseph
Speaker 1: Jack Gagan was a Catholic priest in the Archdiocese of Boston.
Speaker 1: Maybe you've heard of them from a little movie called Spotlight,
Speaker 1: and he was a serial child rapist. This priest was
Speaker 1: accused of sexually abusing one hundred and thirty boys at
Speaker 1: least over his thirty year career, and, in a classic
Speaker 1: move from the Catholic Church playbook, happens in six parishes
Speaker 1: because obviously, you know, they shuffle this guy's ass around.
Speaker 3: He was.
Speaker 1: Gagan was defrocked in nineteen ninety eight by Pope John
Speaker 1: Paul the Second. He was found guilty in February two
Speaker 1: thousand and two of indecent assault and battery for grabbing
Speaker 1: a ten year old boy's butt in a swimming pool
Speaker 1: at the Wall Fam Boys and Girls Club in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety one and was sentenced to nine to ten years
Speaker 1: in prison. And I'm like, he got nine to ten
Speaker 1: years in prison for grabbing a butt. I think it's
Speaker 1: like there were other cases. He was prosecuted in two
Speaker 1: other sexual abuse cases. One was dropped because the victim
Speaker 1: decided not to testify, and in the second one a
Speaker 1: judge dismissed the conviction in two rapes because the statute
Speaker 1: of limitations had run out, which is just so gross.
Speaker 1: This whole statute of limitations thing is like ugh. At first,
Speaker 1: the Archdioces of Boston initially agreed to pay eighty six
Speaker 1: victims thirty million dollars in a settlement. Then they pulled
Speaker 1: out and eventually settled for ten million. They're always trying
Speaker 1: to save a buck. Gagan was serving his sentence in
Speaker 1: protective custody at SUSA Baranowski Correctional Center in Lancaster, mass
Speaker 1: There was another inmate there named Joseph Lee Druce, which
Speaker 1: is his name he named himself. He was born Darren
Speaker 1: Ernest Smile Edge and he changed his name in prison.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the deal was, but he was
Speaker 1: serving life without parole for killing a man who came
Speaker 1: on to him. He was a self proclaimed neo Nazi
Speaker 1: and once mailed his own feces to the state's attorney general,
Speaker 1: and just two years later he sent anthrax hoax letters
Speaker 1: to lawyers with Jewish last names.
Speaker 3: So not a good guy.
Speaker 1: But Druce had been sexually abused in boarding school as
Speaker 1: a child. He heard that Gagan had taught another inmate
Speaker 1: how to sexually abuse children, So for a month, Druce
Speaker 1: plotted to murder Gagan. He wanted revenge on all sex
Speaker 1: child sex abusers. On August twenty third, two thousand and three,
Speaker 1: Druce followed sixty eight year old Gagan into his cell
Speaker 1: after lunch and jammed the door so that the corrections
Speaker 1: officers could not get in. He bound and gag Gagan
Speaker 1: with a bedsheet, and then he strangled him and stomped
Speaker 1: him to death. He repeatedly jumped from the bed onto
Speaker 1: Gagan's motionless body and also beat him with his fists.
Speaker 1: The cause of death was ligature strangulation and blunt chest trauma.
Speaker 1: Prison officials were questioned like, hey, why would you keep
Speaker 1: these two men the same unit.
Speaker 3: For protective custody? Like a lot, Like.
Speaker 1: What's going on with like the dumb check stuff, and
Speaker 1: it was alleged that the CEOs had been warned also
Speaker 1: that by another inmate that Drews planned to attack Gagan. Also,
Speaker 1: in addition, usually two officers are stationed in that unit,
Speaker 1: but at the time there was only one and he
Speaker 1: had left to take another inmate to the infirmary. Supposedly,
Speaker 1: staffing cuts were to blame for making the prison like
Speaker 1: more dangerous, more volatile. So there had been speculation that
Speaker 1: also that Druce was killing Gagan as a hit, like
Speaker 1: someone had offered to pay him, but also that he
Speaker 1: thought it would earn him cred in the prison if
Speaker 1: he killed him. He's got by the way, Druce is
Speaker 1: in their life without possibility of parole, so he's like
Speaker 1: I could do whatever I want. Drews was found guilty
Speaker 1: of first degree murder in two thousand and six.
Speaker 2: And for me is it's like I wonder because obviously
Speaker 2: you're in prison for life, so frame of mind is different.
Speaker 3: But it's like you can be in solidary because like
Speaker 3: I'm thinking.
Speaker 2: About escape Dan Mora, but it's like obviously you want
Speaker 2: to try to escape, of course, but like now he's
Speaker 2: gonna sell alone twenty four hour surveillance at all times. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like you did have it good. So it's like
Speaker 2: you have nothing to lose, but you do, Yeah, you do.
Speaker 2: You do within prison either ben pop or you're alone
Speaker 2: in a cell for twenty three hours a day.
Speaker 3: It's like, I but.
Speaker 2: Mind frame is obviously different between me sitting on the
Speaker 2: outside like thinking about.
Speaker 1: This right, and he's he's possibly not a mentally well individual.
Speaker 1: He's mailing a shit to people, you know, like I
Speaker 1: don't know, so, like, you know, he's maybe not considering it.
Speaker 1: He's like, if I kill this guy, I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: the most cool guy in the prison. Yeah, but you
Speaker 1: might be by yourself befriending a cockroach, you know, Like
Speaker 1: we don't know.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: He is found guilty of first degree murder for Gagan's
Speaker 1: murder in two thousand and six and was again sentenced
Speaker 1: to life like a second life sentence without possibility of parole.
Speaker 1: The following year, the Boston Harold gets a handwritten letter
Speaker 1: signed Joseph Lee Drews that said the truth about officer
Speaker 1: involvement in John Gagan's death, along with an address for
Speaker 1: a YouTube video. The video contained security footage from the
Speaker 1: prison showing five CEOs attempting to open the cell door
Speaker 1: for ten minutes, and it also showed emergency personnel trying
Speaker 1: to resuscitate Gagan. I don't really know how this is
Speaker 1: the truth. This is like what people are saying happened.
Speaker 1: I think they investigated who posted the video, but it's
Speaker 1: unclear if they ever found out who it was. But
Speaker 1: it was from an internal security camera, so it must
Speaker 1: have been someone who worked at the Department of Corrections.
Speaker 3: And that's kind of the end of that story. Quote.
Speaker 1: Many victims are disappointed end quote, said Mitchell Gara Badian,
Speaker 1: who was a lawyer representing more than two hundred of
Speaker 1: Gagan's victims and other clergy. They quote, they wish father
Speaker 1: John Gagan had time to be in prison to reflect
Speaker 1: end quote. So some of the like I was reading that,
Speaker 1: some of the victims were like, well, he can't hurt
Speaker 1: anybody anymore. But also we wanted him to reflect on
Speaker 1: his crimes. So we didn't want it because this was
Speaker 1: less than a year that he was in jail when
Speaker 1: he was murdered.
Speaker 3: It was very quick.
Speaker 1: So now the Martin Schultz case seems to be based
Speaker 1: on a guy named Claudius Vermilier. I don't really know
Speaker 1: how to say this last name, but I'm going to
Speaker 1: say it like that. He is another defrocked priest, but
Speaker 1: this time an Episcopalian defract priest. He operated what was
Speaker 1: called the Boys Farm at Rourke's Cove in Alto, Tennessee,
Speaker 1: a farming community in the Appalachian Foothills, between nineteen seventy
Speaker 1: one and nineteen seventy six. He was known by the
Speaker 1: locals as Bud. He marketed the farm as a rehabilitation
Speaker 1: center for homeless and wayward use, a place where quote
Speaker 1: boys could learn self respect and responsibility end quote. Troubled
Speaker 1: boys were placed into his custody by courts, welfare agencies,
Speaker 1: and sometimes by their own parents, you know, very Paris
Speaker 1: Hilton parents sending her to this like you know, scared
Speaker 1: straight camp or whatever. Vermilier sexually abused these boys aged
Speaker 1: eleven to sixteen. Also took photos of it, which he
Speaker 1: developed in his own photo lab. Then he disseminated the
Speaker 1: photos to people for money, both in and out of Tennessee.
Speaker 1: And another gross detail is that he use the boys
Speaker 1: themselves to help with this whole mailing business, like they
Speaker 1: would put these mailing packages together of photos of their
Speaker 1: own abuse and like, okay, we got to get these
Speaker 1: out to all the customers. He also brought in John's.
Speaker 1: He pimped the boys out to other men like sounds
Speaker 1: like an absolute nightmare. And you know, these kind of
Speaker 1: men think that they are never going to get caught.
Speaker 1: So he was advertising in porno magazines. He the law
Speaker 1: caught wind of his farm and like the back pages,
Speaker 1: like the backpages of porn magazines, he was advertising like, oh,
Speaker 1: I've got you know, I've got this farm where you can,
Speaker 1: you know, come to have some companionship with boys or whatever.
Speaker 1: And the law enforcement caught wind of that via these
Speaker 1: advertisements and what they heard what was going on down there.
Speaker 1: So Vermilier was arrested in November of nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 1: When they searched the premises, they discovered developed and underdeveloped
Speaker 1: photographs of child sex abuse images, as well as card
Speaker 1: catalog containing the names of hundreds of current and previous
Speaker 1: financial contributors, so customers, if you will. Many of these
Speaker 1: contributors eventually testified against him for immunity. Several of the
Speaker 1: boys who testified said their relationship with Vermilier was consensual.
Speaker 1: None of them mentioned being forced. He's obviously brainwashed all
Speaker 1: of them. I have photos, I have pictures, Like the
Speaker 1: people are going to find out what you did.
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: One boy did testify that it was understood that posing
Speaker 1: for these photos was necessary if you wanted to stay
Speaker 1: on the farm. But the prosecutor had two thousand photos
Speaker 1: thirteen letters that he wrote to a Delaware quote unquote
Speaker 1: customer offering slide sets for twenty five dollars and touting
Speaker 1: the skills of two fifteen year old boys at the farm.
Speaker 1: He was forced to admit that he had sent these
Speaker 1: nude photos and sex filled letters to some homosexual sponsors.
Speaker 3: Is what the words are. But he denied knowledge or.
Speaker 1: Responsibility for most of the photographs and said that he
Speaker 1: had shot a few of them for an artist, but
Speaker 1: also that he was using them for sublimination counseling with
Speaker 1: his homosexual clients, like in an effort to keep their
Speaker 1: desires in the closet. Like I looked up some elimination counseling,
Speaker 1: and it was like turning something bad into good, Like
Speaker 1: I think it was like, hey, if you just have
Speaker 1: these pictures, you don't have to go out and like
Speaker 1: find any underage boys to assault, you know, So that's
Speaker 1: what he claimed he was doing. He also claimed that
Speaker 1: the rest of the photographs that they found were planted
Speaker 1: by agents of an unspecified national child porn ring quote
Speaker 1: unquote national child porn ring. So Vermilie also used this
Speaker 1: is horrible. He also used his own son, William for
Speaker 1: child sex abuse images, but William disappeared in the summer
Speaker 1: of nineteen seventy four and was never found.
Speaker 3: Are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: So I killed them obviously.
Speaker 1: But I did find I found Vermilier's obituary, and in
Speaker 1: the obituary it said he's predeceased by his son William.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's been declared dead. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: a girl with the dragon tattoo type of thing where
Speaker 1: the woman got away, where like he went away and
Speaker 1: started a new life just to get away from his dad. Like,
Speaker 1: I have no idea, or he killed him. I don't
Speaker 1: know how old the kid was. Was hard to find information.
Speaker 1: One of Vermilia's former wards, David Forrester, sued the state
Speaker 1: of Tennessee for a million dollars, claiming that corrections off
Speaker 1: officials are the ones that placed him at the farm,
Speaker 1: which he essentially said was a male prostitution ring, and
Speaker 1: willfully neglected their duty to investigate the facility. His lawyer
Speaker 1: claimed that he and the other boys who refused to
Speaker 1: cooperate were beaten and subjected to quote unquote constant pressure
Speaker 1: to conform. In June of nineteen seventy seven, Vermiliers found
Speaker 1: guilty and sentenced to five to ten years of imprisonment
Speaker 1: for crimes against nature. So weird the way that they're
Speaker 1: calling these things. Ten to fifteen years for aiding in
Speaker 1: a betting crimes. I think it's a gay thing, not
Speaker 1: a pedophile. Yeah yeah, I think so. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like
Speaker 1: say what he did? Say it? You know, But it's
Speaker 1: the seventies, and so he got He totaled a sentence
Speaker 1: of twenty five to forty years in prison. I could
Speaker 1: not find how many years he served. I was checking
Speaker 1: in a Tennessee inmate thing. I couldn't find his name.
Speaker 1: So I don't know how many years he served, but
Speaker 1: I do know that in nineteen seventy eight.
Speaker 2: I no, I want to know, Like how comes Sometimes
Speaker 2: we can find an inmate. Sometimes we can't. Sometimes we
Speaker 2: can find how long they've been there. Sometimes we can't.
Speaker 3: Like what is that?
Speaker 1: I feel like it's state by state, don't you Like
Speaker 1: some states it's like it's not public knowledge. In some
Speaker 1: states it is like part of public record.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: But it's also a sex crime, Like where is he
Speaker 2: on the registry? Like we should know if he's said
Speaker 2: or not. I don't see if.
Speaker 1: Crimes against nature a sex crime. That's what I don't know.
Speaker 1: Like maybe that's something that happened more in the eighties,
Speaker 1: like where they changed the legislat like they changed the
Speaker 1: actual wording of the law. And was there a registry
Speaker 1: in the seventies, you know, Like I don't know, it's crazy,
Speaker 1: But in nineteen seventy eight he does get defrocked, you know,
Speaker 1: from the priesthood of the Episcopalian church.
Speaker 2: In eighty four, Wow, I'm shocked they didn't make a
Speaker 2: sin glass.
Speaker 3: Window in his honor. I know, I don't know, in
Speaker 3: who loves the church?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: In eighty four, he sought.
Speaker 1: A retrial, saying that his conviction and sentences were void
Speaker 1: due to a denial of his constitutional rights to effective
Speaker 1: legal counsel. It was denied by the Supreme Court in
Speaker 1: December of nineteen eighty seven. But then it says he
Speaker 1: died in twenty eighteen in kill Devil Hills, which is
Speaker 1: like such an ironic name for a fucking pedophle to
Speaker 1: dial in a place called kill Devil kill Devil Hills,
Speaker 1: North Carolina at eighty nine. And I found his obituary,
Speaker 1: which of course mentions nothing about his crimes, and it
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like he died in prison. So I think
Speaker 1: he got out, but I don't know how many years
Speaker 1: he served. But if he had done forty five, if
Speaker 1: he had done forty years from June of nineteen seventy seven,
Speaker 1: he would have gotten out in like seventeen, and then
Speaker 1: he died in eighteen, So.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: It looks like he maybe got out of jail, or
Speaker 1: but maybe he served less time.
Speaker 3: It was impossible to find.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry if anyone knows, if you live in that area,
Speaker 1: someone who murdered him, well, I was waiting for him
Speaker 1: to get out. There's like a photo and everything in
Speaker 1: his obituary. It's crazy. So this scandalosious to quote wicked, Okay,
Speaker 1: the last crime so this case is crazy. This is like,
Speaker 1: this is where the whole, This is where the hole
Speaker 1: is scared.
Speaker 3: I'm scared.
Speaker 1: The relationship between the woman and the guy who was
Speaker 1: the lead counsel on the case.
Speaker 3: This is where this comes from. Okay, okay.
Speaker 1: So in nineteen ninety, Charles Dean Hood was was sentenced
Speaker 1: to death in the nineteen eighty nine killings of Tracy
Speaker 1: Lynn Wallace, aged twenty six, and Ronald Williamson, forty six,
Speaker 1: in their home in Plano, Texas, which is a suburb
Speaker 1: of Dallas. Hood said for years he was innocent. Many
Speaker 1: years after his sentencing, his attorneys were trying to save
Speaker 1: him from being executed, and they raised allegations that the
Speaker 1: judge in his trial had been having an extra marital
Speaker 1: affair with the district attorney that was prosecuting the case.
Speaker 3: So because they.
Speaker 1: Were both married, they denied the fair the affair even
Speaker 1: to Hood's death penalty lawyers, but after it finally came
Speaker 1: to light, they said, the judge, finally, the judge is
Speaker 1: the woman, by the way, and the not that it
Speaker 1: has to be a heterosexual couple, but it is. The
Speaker 1: judge is a woman, and the DA or the ADA
Speaker 1: is a man, and after it finally came to light,
Speaker 1: the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals rejected Hood's challenge in
Speaker 1: two curt sentences. Basically, the Texas Criminal Appeal Court of
Speaker 1: Criminal Appeals goes, oh, sorry, your lawyers should have brought
Speaker 1: this up earlier, And they're like, yeah, how could we
Speaker 1: have brought it up earlier when the existence of the
Speaker 1: fair was not conclusively established until two thousand and eight, Like,
Speaker 1: we actually couldn't.
Speaker 3: We didn't know about it.
Speaker 1: So like that's when the judge and the prosecutor were
Speaker 1: forced to admit it under oath was eight. So the
Speaker 1: issue is is that could a criminal trial where the
Speaker 1: prosecutor and the judge are secretly in love ever be
Speaker 1: a fair trial? And it's an issue that the courts
Speaker 1: refuse to fully address whether it violated Hood's right to
Speaker 1: a fair trial or not, because Texas law requires that
Speaker 1: a judge recused themselves whenever their quote impartiality might reasonably
Speaker 1: be questioned end quote, or they have a quote personal
Speaker 1: bias or prejudice concerning the subject matter or a party
Speaker 1: end quote, like judge absolutely should have recused absolutely. Hood's
Speaker 1: judge later admitted that she should have recused herself. So
Speaker 1: what the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals did do since
Speaker 1: they wouldn't grant him you know that what they did
Speaker 1: do was grant him a new sentencing trial because they
Speaker 1: said that jurors were not given proper instructions on considering
Speaker 1: mitigating evidence that he did not deserve the death penalty.
Speaker 1: Nothing to do with the lawyer judge, soap opera. But
Speaker 1: that's also like kind of what happened in his case,
Speaker 1: Like no one told them about the molestation or the
Speaker 1: years of abuse or anything like that that would have
Speaker 1: been mitigating circumstances about the death penalty. So they do
Speaker 1: give him another sentencing trial, but in twenty thirteen, he
Speaker 1: decides to forego the new sentencing trial and instead changes
Speaker 1: his plea to guilty, and he gets life without possibility
Speaker 1: of parole or appeal. He also does not receive credit
Speaker 1: for the twenty three years that he had already spent
Speaker 1: on death row, which I don't know why that would
Speaker 1: make a difference anyway if he has life.
Speaker 3: But whatever, what do you mean credit?
Speaker 1: Like, you know, sometimes if they change your stuff, they'll
Speaker 1: give you credit for time served. Yeah, he gets no
Speaker 1: credit for time served, but I don't know why I'm
Speaker 1: even reading that in an article because he has life anyway,
Speaker 1: but I don't know no.
Speaker 3: Credit for that.
Speaker 1: So basically, I think this guy did do it, even
Speaker 1: though he said for years that he didn't do it.
Speaker 1: And so instead of like waiting for a new sentencing trial,
Speaker 1: he was like, I'll just change my plea and get life,
Speaker 1: because that's really all I wanted was to not get
Speaker 1: the death penalty.
Speaker 3: So ada.
Speaker 1: John Schomberger said, prosecutors quote felt vindicated in the sense
Speaker 1: that he acknowledged what we knew he did is murder those.
Speaker 3: People end quote.
Speaker 2: So the people being all kind of connected in terms
Speaker 2: of like, you know, we talk about this a whole
Speaker 2: the time with the judges and the priests.
Speaker 3: It's like we give this like.
Speaker 1: God like status right and power to these people, and
Speaker 1: it's like they are regular people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't know, shitty regular people.
Speaker 2: Like when are we gonna stop giving so much power
Speaker 2: to just regular people?
Speaker 3: Yeah? No, one's better than us. Yeah, I wonder.
Speaker 1: And it's also like, if you're having a secret affair
Speaker 1: and you're the judge, you're like, well, I can't recuse
Speaker 1: myself because they're gonna ask me why you know, but
Speaker 1: you have to you should have recused yourself. I guess
Speaker 1: you have to figure out something else. Say you play
Speaker 1: squash with that lawyer. It's not fair, you know, say something,
Speaker 1: but it's the death penalty.
Speaker 2: But like, how are you a judge on the bench
Speaker 2: when that's your judgment. You should not have a job anymore.
Speaker 2: I know, you chose to have an affair over a
Speaker 2: man's life. You should not be on the bench.
Speaker 1: Yeah, crazy, but they really I thought this episode, I can't.
Speaker 2: Even be a fucking idiot. I just wish I was
Speaker 2: so dumb. I wish I was so dumb. I don't
Speaker 2: think I'm a genius or anything, but like, god do
Speaker 2: I wish it was dumb and a sociopath. I think
Speaker 2: my life would be a lot easier, so easy. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I want to live like a fucking like who cares
Speaker 2: only me?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh they're gonna sence the man to death. Well,
Speaker 2: as long as my affair gets kept secret. Yeah what
Speaker 2: are you talking about?
Speaker 3: I know?
Speaker 2: And if you just managed like a costcode'd be like
Speaker 2: all right, but you're on the bench. You've been deciding
Speaker 2: people's faith. But these people all believe in the death penalty.
Speaker 2: They're like, this guy killed someone, so let's kill him.
Speaker 1: You know, like that's like, yes, their eye for an
Speaker 1: eye bullshit, you know whatever. But let's get into our
Speaker 1: post mortem because I have a lots to say about
Speaker 1: this episode. I mean this episode is tough because I
Speaker 1: mean what we've already discussed, it's like crazy to have
Speaker 1: an episode featuring someone who's been convicted of a sexual abuse. Uh,
Speaker 1: but I do, I do. It's a crazy episode and
Speaker 1: well it.
Speaker 3: Is, and they just always do a good job of
Speaker 3: like people are flawed, which leads to the system being
Speaker 3: flawed and we have to be bitch, yeah, because shady
Speaker 3: shit is going down. Yeah, and and like.
Speaker 2: Judges, these attorney I mean it's it's and the trauma,
Speaker 2: I mean thinking of that, that's what the never.
Speaker 3: Ending cycle of the trauma.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like not be like having this childhood trauma that
Speaker 1: like literally just of course you have so much like
Speaker 1: rage and it leads to more hurt people, hurt people.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: Oh anyway, but Art.
Speaker 2: Andrey Brower, I mean it's like a great episode in
Speaker 2: terms of like guest cast and twists and turns and
Speaker 2: like courtroom scenes, ed Asner, I mean, it's like a
Speaker 2: great episode of television.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know Valentine's Day has passed as of this
Speaker 1: episode coming out, but there have been there has been
Speaker 1: a lot of Luigi Valentine's Day content coming out.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you've seen it. Many people have
Speaker 3: been sending have been returned. Oh no, no, but someone
Speaker 3: sent me a Reddit.
Speaker 2: I did a lot of things wrong. I would say
Speaker 2: I did almost everything you can do wrong. Wait, wait,
Speaker 2: go on, I want to hear this. The envelopes have
Speaker 2: to be white. Mine were like fun, I had fun. Okay,
Speaker 2: that's to be just white lined paper. No cards, you
Speaker 2: need your full name with the address are are like yeah,
Speaker 2: no colored end, no stickers. I use stickers to like
Speaker 2: and he's like the back like being a yssive.
Speaker 3: So those are the main things that I broke. Uh,
Speaker 3: those rules.
Speaker 1: So do you think you'll write him with like your
Speaker 1: full name and your address and everything?
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I use the address.
Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm trying to hide, but like,
Speaker 2: I just obviously it's going to be strict, and then
Speaker 2: they photo copy, and then the inmates get photo copies
Speaker 2: of the letters.
Speaker 3: Got it.
Speaker 2: So it's just gonna take me long, you know, I
Speaker 2: have I'm gonna write again.
Speaker 3: He has some court dates.
Speaker 2: Coming up, but it'll be a lot later because all
Speaker 2: my shit was like red envelopes with glitter stickers, and
Speaker 2: that's so funny.
Speaker 1: They were like, sorry, babe, you can't send you Different
Speaker 1: Island times take.
Speaker 3: Cards to this guy. Yeah, so you stick I do
Speaker 3: have a huge brag.
Speaker 2: I'm in the New York Magazine's Matrix, I mean the
Speaker 2: cultural Matrix.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have it.
Speaker 2: I'm a low brow brilliant. Oh my god, low brow book.
Speaker 1: Talk about the next name of your fucking album, the
Speaker 1: name of your next low bout.
Speaker 3: Wait, Oh my god, you're in the intelligence sir. That
Speaker 3: is crazy. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's called the Like Approval Matrix, And basically it's
Speaker 2: the last page of New York Magazine, what I subscribe to.
Speaker 3: So I'm gonna post it. But I got to go into.
Speaker 2: My mailbox and like take out my favorite magazine and
Speaker 2: I'm in it. So it's split up into like grid,
Speaker 2: so it's highbrow and low brow are vertical, and then
Speaker 2: like the across is despicable to brilliant. So I'm in
Speaker 2: low brow Brilliant with Chapel Roone, Lady Gaga and Porky
Speaker 2: the pig.
Speaker 3: I see you.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I see you. Okay, I'm gonna posted
Speaker 1: on the Instagram. Oh yeah, it's excited. It's exciting, and
Speaker 1: you got to do a grub street. I saw it
Speaker 1: and I liked it, but I haven't gotten to read
Speaker 1: it yet.
Speaker 3: In there with Porky and Daffy. Yeah, I'm under chapel.
Speaker 2: Yeah, abortion meds like cool shit, I'm gonna get it framed.
Speaker 2: Why I'm annoyed because the highbrow despicable is like Elon Trump,
Speaker 2: like every you know, I'm annoyed.
Speaker 3: But an rfk's in there.
Speaker 1: Why is James calling on New York hospitals to keep
Speaker 1: treating trans youth lowbrow and brilliant? Maybe it's lowbrow to
Speaker 1: take away women's rights, I guess yeah, but it seems
Speaker 1: like it's like we're talking about her doing something good.
Speaker 1: But well, also, why is Beyonce indespicable highbrow? For Beyonce
Speaker 1: is ready to tour her way to another half billion books.
Speaker 3: And it's like, but that's good. Yeah. I tried to
Speaker 3: get the tickets.
Speaker 2: No, no, I'm gonna try again Friday because I didn't
Speaker 2: have a pre sale code, So I'll try again Friday.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't know. We'll see, we'll see. Yeah,
Speaker 3: if I can get a ticket on Friday. Oh my god,
Speaker 3: how exciting.
Speaker 1: I read that every time I get a New York
Speaker 1: magazine in my hands.
Speaker 3: That's like my favorite part of it.
Speaker 2: I love that, I know if and it's it was
Speaker 2: like a surprise, you know, like I didn't know that
Speaker 2: this was going to happen. So I'm yeah, I was
Speaker 2: really excited, especially next the porky. Yeah, because I'm a
Speaker 2: Looney Tunes girl, you know what I mean. Yes, and
Speaker 2: they're saying it's refresh it.
Speaker 3: I love it. This is great. Wow, how exciting. Oh
Speaker 3: my god.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, but yeah, crimes are bad, trauma is bad.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know the usual postmortem takeaways.
Speaker 2: Oh here, I'm going to show you the Snoopy from
Speaker 2: the beginning episode now that I have my phone out, but.
Speaker 3: There's mine. Oh from the tables.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the eyes are a little fucked. I think he's
Speaker 2: just a little stone. I think he's having Yeah, he's
Speaker 2: having a town.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, Snoopy's partying. I love that.
Speaker 2: But of course we were with fucking mateo. His buttons
Speaker 2: look like fucking three D. Yeah, of course he does
Speaker 2: like a full home mados. Oh my god, so fun.
Speaker 1: But then some people like added ear rings and lashes
Speaker 1: and stuff.
Speaker 3: Yes, oh my god, I love it was fun. Snoopy,
Speaker 3: Light to the game.
Speaker 2: But if you've not done a painting party, you know
Speaker 2: that's so funny.
Speaker 1: Because I've been lately feeling like I wanted to like
Speaker 1: do some kind of like artistic craft or something in
Speaker 1: my free time, of which I don't have a ton,
Speaker 1: but I was like, I want to like get into
Speaker 1: some kind of craft.
Speaker 3: What could I do?
Speaker 1: I've almost thought I was like, should I buy a
Speaker 1: piece of furniture and try to like rehab a piece
Speaker 1: of furniture? Maybe I should just start simple with a
Speaker 1: sip and sea, a sip and paint or what.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was fun. I like, I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2: I I can't I feel like I was judgmental, like
Speaker 2: I thought it was lame or something, But I really
Speaker 2: loved it.
Speaker 1: No, that's wonderful. I mean, like in Snoopy, come on,
Speaker 1: you can't go wrong. All right, let's move into our
Speaker 1: what would Sister Peg do? This is our weekly segment
Speaker 1: where we direct you all to a you know, to
Speaker 1: an article, a book, an organization, something that'll give you
Speaker 1: more info about what we talked about today and this
Speaker 1: week for WWSPD, we wanted to point you to the
Speaker 1: No More Global Directory. This is a comprehensive international directory
Speaker 1: of domestic and sexual violence resources in almost every un
Speaker 1: recognized country and territory in the world. Uh, because you
Speaker 1: know some of you know we were this obviously is
Speaker 1: I don't want to just give resources that are us only.
Speaker 1: We know a lot of you guys listen from other
Speaker 1: parts of the world, and obviously these things are happening
Speaker 1: all over the world. This organization was created in partnership
Speaker 1: with the United Nations and the World Bank. It's an
Speaker 1: amazing resource for victims of domestic and sexual violence all
Speaker 1: around the world. So for more info go to No
Speaker 1: More Directory dot org. That will be linked in our
Speaker 1: show notes and put out in a story the day
Speaker 1: that theisode comes out, and then saved forever in our
Speaker 1: Instagram highlight called WWSPD and our Instagram is that's messed
Speaker 1: up pod.
Speaker 3: Go give it a follow.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for that, and next week we
Speaker 2: will be doing I don't know why I'm out of breath.
Speaker 2: I've been sitting this whole time like I feel like,
Speaker 2: what just happened to me?
Speaker 3: Was I holding my breath? Suddenly winded?
Speaker 2: But we'll be doing a single life from season one
Speaker 2: episode two.
Speaker 1: Wow, we're going back backon episode never.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm shocked we did it. Yeah, it's really interesting.
Speaker 2: I'm so excited.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So we'll see you guys next week and uh yeah bye.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's Messed.
Speaker 2: Up Pod at g follow the podcast on Instagram at
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up Pod and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod,
Speaker 2: and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
Speaker 2: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and.
Speaker 1: To our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner,
Speaker 1: and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly
Speaker 1: Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive
Speaker 1: producers Georgia hard Start Karen Kilgareff Daniel Kramer, and everybody
Speaker 1: at exactly right media dut dun