Speaker 1: Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black
Speaker 1: Effect and our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime. Welcome
Speaker 1: back Man, season two of All the Smoke. We got
Speaker 1: a real special guys. What's up with your Brodie with
Speaker 1: the virtual head shake? I'm gonna tell you something that
Speaker 1: I never told go back. I want to out the smoke.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition to All the Smoke. Jack,
Speaker 1: what's going on? Bro? My brother? What's going on? Just
Speaker 1: chilling up? It's getting kind of cool out here in Atlanta,
Speaker 1: but I'm warming up, Yes, as you should. Man, I'm
Speaker 1: chilling out here. We just had the birthday with the
Speaker 1: baby a little while ago, so he's too now, even
Speaker 1: though he looks like he's fucking four. But we had
Speaker 1: a good time with that. Hung with the family. But
Speaker 1: the man, we got a special one today, a legend
Speaker 1: in the Space edition. Yes, absolutely welcome Jim Gray to
Speaker 1: the show. Jim, how you doing? Matt good to talk
Speaker 1: to you and Stephen. Thanks for having me on. Yes,
Speaker 1: I mean over forty years in this business. Uh, tremendous accolades,
Speaker 1: more memorable conversations before we get started out when I
Speaker 1: was doing research on you, h Muhammad Ali had an
Speaker 1: amazing quote that kind of just like really kind of
Speaker 1: contextualized like what today was about to be about, and
Speaker 1: he saw it early. The first interview Jim ever did
Speaker 1: was with me. From then, the first to my last,
Speaker 1: and and many years later, we have a very special relationship.
Speaker 1: I'm the greatest, He's the latest. Jim is the me
Speaker 1: of his profession. Just don't tell Howard Cosell like, when
Speaker 1: Muhammad Ali says that about you, how does that make
Speaker 1: you feel? Well? It it feels as good here and
Speaker 1: you read it as he did when he said it,
Speaker 1: as I've read it a thousand, two thousand times. Uh. Uh.
Speaker 1: He was a special man. He was obviously very special
Speaker 1: in my life. The first interview that I ever did, guys,
Speaker 1: and uh allowed me to be the last interview that
Speaker 1: he ever did on television. So uh. To have been
Speaker 1: able to travel with him, to learn all that wisdom,
Speaker 1: to hear all of his stories, to be in his
Speaker 1: company on so many, so many occasions, to have seen
Speaker 1: him fight, uh, what he stood for outside of the ring,
Speaker 1: the principles that he had, the man that he was,
Speaker 1: the fun that he made it, He just made it
Speaker 1: so much fun. He loved people. He loved all people
Speaker 1: all the time, and he was great with kids. So
Speaker 1: when I hear that, Matt and and when you say it,
Speaker 1: I still I still literally do get chills because coming
Speaker 1: from him, I mean I just can't get higher praise
Speaker 1: or what could make you feel better than that from
Speaker 1: a greater person. Absolutely, like it just kind of it
Speaker 1: kind of made me say like, oh wow, like that
Speaker 1: that was that was that was very special. How is
Speaker 1: current day treating you? How? How how different has it
Speaker 1: been during this pandemic? Um from your normal day to
Speaker 1: day because you're so active across the board in several
Speaker 1: different sports. Well, just havn't traveled much. Uh, we stayed
Speaker 1: to ourselves. You know, you missed the people tremendously. You
Speaker 1: missed the people that you work with, your friends, your family. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: my mom has got stomach cancer, so I want to
Speaker 1: be able to see her, so we've really isolated. Uh.
Speaker 1: I live in California, she lives in Colorado. Um, she's
Speaker 1: doing good after a number of chemo treatments. So uh,
Speaker 1: it's just kind of altered everybody's life and and and
Speaker 1: changed so much for everybody across the planet and and
Speaker 1: here in our country. With the tremendous uh loss of life. Uh,
Speaker 1: those who are isolated, who can't see people, the unemployment
Speaker 1: situation and loss of jobs and economics fallout from it.
Speaker 1: So you know, I guess we've just been impacted, like
Speaker 1: like everybody else. You know, certain areas we're doing good
Speaker 1: because we're home and we're safe, and certain areas, you know,
Speaker 1: we're trying to help other folks who are struggling and
Speaker 1: just trying to get through it and knowing that you know,
Speaker 1: it's no longer it's no longer a twenty four hour
Speaker 1: news cycle. It's a twenty four second shot clock. And
Speaker 1: you guys can understand that better than anybody. Wow. Well over,
Speaker 1: sending love and strength and prayer to your mom. Up.
Speaker 1: She pulled through this. She's eight nine, and she's strong,
Speaker 1: she's tough, so uh, she's doing She's doing the best
Speaker 1: she can with the hand she felt. She tells me
Speaker 1: all the time that coronavirus and the isolation is much
Speaker 1: more debilitating than the stomach cancer. So I guess that's
Speaker 1: good news, but it's also you know, I just just
Speaker 1: want to make sure that we can get her through
Speaker 1: this period and be able to spend some more time
Speaker 1: with her after this vaccination hopefully gets rolled out and
Speaker 1: people can can get back to whatever would be considered
Speaker 1: a semi normal life. Absolutely, you just released a book
Speaker 1: that I can't wait to read. This is past November
Speaker 1: talking to goat Spotlight in conversations and time spend with
Speaker 1: some of the biggest athletes, from Kobe Bryant to Muhammad Ali,
Speaker 1: Tom Brady, Lebron James's Decision, Mike Tyson, the Dream Team,
Speaker 1: Pete Rose, and the list goes on. When you sit
Speaker 1: back and kind of look and maybe you can't have
Speaker 1: a full perspective yet because I couldn't get a full
Speaker 1: perspective until I was done playing, But just kind of
Speaker 1: looking back at your path to today and you going
Speaker 1: as strong as ever, what do you think, like, what's
Speaker 1: the first thing that comes to your mind? How did
Speaker 1: all this happen? How could this have possibly happened? Because
Speaker 1: you don't really reflect when you're doing it. I mean,
Speaker 1: you both played fourteen seasons in the NBA and traveled
Speaker 1: to a number of teams. Well, I was there chronicling
Speaker 1: a lot of that and just going from city to
Speaker 1: city doing interview to interview, and then when you start
Speaker 1: to look back and reflect on this. And I had
Speaker 1: Greg Bishop from Sports Illustrated, who did a great job
Speaker 1: organizing this and writing this book. He was terrific to
Speaker 1: work with and he and he did. He's a great
Speaker 1: writer and and a great friend. But there's tens of
Speaker 1: thousands of interviews and events and so much has gone
Speaker 1: on that while you're in the mix, you're you're not
Speaker 1: really looking in the rear view mirror. And this caused
Speaker 1: me to look in that rear view mirror. And I'm
Speaker 1: sure you know, Matt when you saw a lot of
Speaker 1: those highlights, or Stephen, when when you look back at
Speaker 1: your careers and you see all those baskets that you made,
Speaker 1: or the critical shots, or the big defensive plays, or
Speaker 1: those huge winds that that that that you didn't think
Speaker 1: about when they happened, maybe you did for the moment
Speaker 1: until the next game, and then you start taking a
Speaker 1: look at this in the collection, all of it, and
Speaker 1: you say, wow, how did all this happen? And then
Speaker 1: you start thinking I really did all that, and so um,
Speaker 1: you know it's it's it's been a real blessing, and
Speaker 1: it's been fun to look back, particularly when you know
Speaker 1: I used to live at John Madden's house and became
Speaker 1: very close to John Madden. And he's a genius, brilliant
Speaker 1: man obviously with football and his coaching and then broadcasting
Speaker 1: and all the Emmy's and analysis and then the Madden Game.
Speaker 1: But Madden used to always say this to me, everything
Speaker 1: in life is looking forward. When you're born, When are
Speaker 1: you gonna crawl, when you're gonna talk? When are you
Speaker 1: gonna walk? Where are you going to go to school,
Speaker 1: What are you gonna be when you're gonna have confirmation?
Speaker 1: When you're gonna graduate? Where are you going to college?
Speaker 1: So I can keep going on and on and on
Speaker 1: all the way through a lifetime. But you're always conditioned
Speaker 1: to look forward, very rarely, at least in my life
Speaker 1: if I have been thoughtful or conditioned to looking backwards.
Speaker 1: So this gave me that opportunity and it was fun.
Speaker 1: It was hard, but it was fun. Speaking speaking of
Speaker 1: the book, men, you had a chance to previously speak
Speaker 1: about your book. You was telling me about it, and
Speaker 1: it's something that kind of involves me, and well, the
Speaker 1: Malice in the Palace. Yes, sir, I was there that
Speaker 1: night broadcasting that game on ESPN with Bill Walton and
Speaker 1: my brain and I was standing right there when you
Speaker 1: kind of jumped over me and went went in there
Speaker 1: with Ron. Rememberable night night, probably much more memorable for
Speaker 1: you and and all the repercussions and everything that has
Speaker 1: gone on since. But you know, it was, it was.
Speaker 1: It was interesting on on a number of levels, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, to be able to reflect on it, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, there's some interesting things I try and put
Speaker 1: in the book at the Malice at the Palace that
Speaker 1: you know, really hadn't been examined, and a couple of
Speaker 1: the things, really is I blame personally, you know, the Pistons, uh,
Speaker 1: not only their fans, but Ben Wallace much more so
Speaker 1: than uh, you know, the public did, and seemingly, you know,
Speaker 1: everybody did. Obviously, you can't go into stands and start
Speaker 1: fighting with the very customers who are paying for your game.
Speaker 1: So and what David Stern did was exactly right. But
Speaker 1: the blame and the reason all this began really in
Speaker 1: my estimation, began with Ben Wallace and and got taken
Speaker 1: to another level with the fans. Right. Yeah, the game
Speaker 1: was over well over. I mean, you know, I believe
Speaker 1: Bill Walton even said on the air that wasn't even
Speaker 1: a hard foul. Leave it to leave it to Bill.
Speaker 1: I love Bill, Run Run. So you've had a h obviously,
Speaker 1: as we spoke, a forty year career that stemmed over
Speaker 1: several sports. Basketball, baseball, boxing, football, golf, um, you name it.
Speaker 1: Do you have a favorite? Do you is there one
Speaker 1: you tend to or you have a love for all
Speaker 1: of them? I really do have have a love for
Speaker 1: all of them. And it's kind of hard when you're
Speaker 1: sitting at a super Bowl to say, to sit there
Speaker 1: and think, boy, wouldn't I much rather be at the
Speaker 1: NBA Finals right now? Or if you're at the NBA
Speaker 1: Finals watching Jordan make a shot or Lebron or Kobe,
Speaker 1: You're really not sitting there thinking, boy, the opening ceremony
Speaker 1: of the Olympics would should be nice to be sitting at.
Speaker 1: So you're kind of just, you know, really fortunate and
Speaker 1: lucky to have been able to have the whole collection
Speaker 1: of them all. I will say this, though, there's nothing
Speaker 1: like a great prize fight. When when Tagler and Hearns,
Speaker 1: or Tyson and holy Field, or Ali and Fraser, or
Speaker 1: Mayweather and Pacquiao have that ring walk, there is a
Speaker 1: there's an energy and in an intensity that is in
Speaker 1: the air in that arena that doesn't really exist. Maybe
Speaker 1: only one other things exists like that, and that's the
Speaker 1: lighting of the torch at an Olympic opening ceremony. You
Speaker 1: know who will light it? How will it happen? Will
Speaker 1: it be a bow and arrow which was brilliant in Barcelona?
Speaker 1: Will it be the greatest moment I ever saw with
Speaker 1: Muhammad Ali? Uh you know, fighting Parkinson's and and and
Speaker 1: there was the greatest to who lit the torch? So
Speaker 1: perhaps that moment, But uh no, really, I don't think
Speaker 1: I have a favorite sport. I mean, I love basketball,
Speaker 1: I love the NFL, I love boxing, and golf has
Speaker 1: been a lot of fun so in the Olympics have
Speaker 1: been been just tremendous. So my favorite sport is the
Speaker 1: one I think I'm at at the time. I'm at
Speaker 1: that place there you go, like you said, lucky enough,
Speaker 1: just you know, just to be there. But then I think,
Speaker 1: what is obviously allowed that you to have this success
Speaker 1: you have and and and the longevity is trust. And
Speaker 1: as players, it's hard to trust the media. It's very
Speaker 1: hard to trust the media because there's it's normally angles
Speaker 1: and I remember from the first time I met you,
Speaker 1: and then, like I said, prepping on this and as
Speaker 1: a part of your book, and what they said, and
Speaker 1: a lot of the common theme was like they trust you.
Speaker 1: You you're a straight shooter, You're honest, there's no motive.
Speaker 1: Even if you have to ask the tough question, it's
Speaker 1: still you know there there there's there's no unwrapping to do.
Speaker 1: And that says a lot about you, because, like I said,
Speaker 1: for athletes, it's almost like a criminal talking to police,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like it's just like it's
Speaker 1: it's hard sometimes because your words get twisted and it
Speaker 1: becomes different than what you intended it to be. So
Speaker 1: we really are almost really protective when it comes to
Speaker 1: actually talking about you. So for these guys to be
Speaker 1: as comfortable as they are to talk to you and
Speaker 1: let their guard down, it really says a lot about
Speaker 1: you as a person as well. Well, thank you, and
Speaker 1: it's uh, I've been honored and really you know, gratified
Speaker 1: by what these folks have had to say for the
Speaker 1: book and and and about me. And you know, trust
Speaker 1: is a hard thing. How how is it that you
Speaker 1: and and and Steven trust each other? Well? You do
Speaker 1: you build a relationship, there's a camaraderie, there's a coexistence,
Speaker 1: and you understand and you don't have to probably talk
Speaker 1: to him every day to understand that he can be
Speaker 1: trusted and vice versa. So true friendship and true relationship, guys,
Speaker 1: it's reciprocal. I can't just go put my arm around
Speaker 1: Kobe Bryant one day and and and say I'm going
Speaker 1: to be your friend and you can trust me, like
Speaker 1: you said, you know, there's there's a tremendous amount of
Speaker 1: of distance and distrust that goes on. So it has
Speaker 1: to be reciprocal. So if somebody's always giving, that doesn't
Speaker 1: work because then there becomes a dependence, right and if
Speaker 1: you're always giving to somebody, that dependence is going to
Speaker 1: become debilitating. So the giver is going to be resentful
Speaker 1: of always giving and the taker is going to become
Speaker 1: a dependence. So that doesn't work. So it has to
Speaker 1: go back and forth. So I've been fortunate with a
Speaker 1: number of these guys, from Ali to Eric Dickerson to
Speaker 1: Tom Brady currently to Kobe Bryant. You know, I was
Speaker 1: I was really hearten. The first line in the book
Speaker 1: was from Kobe and you know, it just says exactly
Speaker 1: how it is I've tried to behave in my life.
Speaker 1: If I had one word to describe he was talking
Speaker 1: about me, Jim Gray, it would be that he's honest. Well,
Speaker 1: my dad taught me that. He said, it doesn't cost
Speaker 1: you anything to tell the truth and to be honest.
Speaker 1: I've tried to live like that and we fortunately it's
Speaker 1: worth I know, I know we're we're virgins compared to
Speaker 1: your career being in this space, but I know the
Speaker 1: conversations we've had in a year and a half, you know,
Speaker 1: with just the guys that we play with, the people
Speaker 1: we look up to, it means it means a lot
Speaker 1: to us. You know, you talk about the Kobe uh,
Speaker 1: the Kobe conversation, you talked about the d Way conversation.
Speaker 1: A lot of conversations we have with guys they mean
Speaker 1: a lot to us. So I could just I'm just
Speaker 1: sitting here thinking about the people you had conversations with,
Speaker 1: the meaningful conversations, and the names you've named. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know that that that has to hold a big
Speaker 1: part of your life. When you're sitting at home just
Speaker 1: watch the TV or are having breakfast, just thinking about
Speaker 1: those conversations because you talked to some of the best
Speaker 1: in the game, the best to ever come around. It
Speaker 1: does mean a lot and and it means a lot
Speaker 1: internally and it's and it's nothing externally because you know
Speaker 1: when you when when you've been doing this for a
Speaker 1: long time and it's a it's a different day and age,
Speaker 1: as you guys very well know. I mean, back when
Speaker 1: I started this in the seventies, nobody even had a
Speaker 1: beeper if you didn't answer your home telephone. That's why
Speaker 1: I got to go interview Muhammad Ali. I was the
Speaker 1: only one in the station. I was an eighteen year
Speaker 1: old videotape editor, a sports intern. Okay, well, nobody answered
Speaker 1: their home telephone. There was no beeper, there was no
Speaker 1: cell phone. We were all walking around with computers in
Speaker 1: our hand and documenting every moment. So that led to that,
Speaker 1: but it also led to really being able to have
Speaker 1: a relationship, being able to prove to somebody that you
Speaker 1: were trustworthy, You were able to connect with people because,
Speaker 1: for example, you know the players who are great today,
Speaker 1: they walk in and they're sitting at a podium, and
Speaker 1: they come in from behind the curtain and then they
Speaker 1: exit from behind the curtain. Well that doesn't that doesn't
Speaker 1: allow for there to be a transactional type of circumstance
Speaker 1: ants where you're actually in front of somebody where you
Speaker 1: can laugh, you can smile. They see your human They
Speaker 1: understand that you might have children, they understand that your
Speaker 1: car broke down, or you might have a different empathy
Speaker 1: toward them towards missing a basket or throwing an interception,
Speaker 1: because you can see it and feel it in their being,
Speaker 1: in their presence, in their eyes, as opposed to now
Speaker 1: you know it's at a distance and everything's at a distance,
Speaker 1: or somebody can just text it out or tweet it
Speaker 1: out or put it on Facebook. So, uh, that distance grows.
Speaker 1: So when you have a relationship truly with somebody, I
Speaker 1: mean you guys have been in locker rooms your whole life,
Speaker 1: so you know what's public and you know what's private. Well,
Speaker 1: that used to be how we covered teams. We covered
Speaker 1: teams with what was your maine to what happened on
Speaker 1: the field of play. So if you did something on
Speaker 1: the field of play that was fair game because everybody
Speaker 1: saw it and everybody knew it. Then if you did
Speaker 1: something off the field which spilled onto the field. If
Speaker 1: you did something that game into the public's eye that
Speaker 1: affected your play, that was fair game. But all of
Speaker 1: the rest of this wasn't being documented by the micro
Speaker 1: second under a microscope, so you know, it didn't it
Speaker 1: didn't come into the purview of what some guy was
Speaker 1: doing at night, what some guy was doing with his
Speaker 1: free time, where he was eating, what car he purchased,
Speaker 1: how he might have treated somebody in a bad moment
Speaker 1: of his life, not his best moment, but a bad moment,
Speaker 1: but had nothing to do with the game. Now everything
Speaker 1: is just fair game because everything's out there. So I
Speaker 1: was very fortunate and feel really really good about the
Speaker 1: time that I was able to come up in this
Speaker 1: because it allowed for all of this to occur. I
Speaker 1: don't know that it could now m hm No, I agree,
Speaker 1: And I think that's part of the reason why, you know,
Speaker 1: Jack and I think have have been able to be
Speaker 1: successful in this space is because it's almost like we're
Speaker 1: with the old rules, you know, I mean, we're not
Speaker 1: looking for clickbait, negative clickbait, we're not looking to cause
Speaker 1: division anywhere, like we genuinely want to be able to
Speaker 1: humanize our guest slash friends and learn about them, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I I just get just as interested in,
Speaker 1: you know, hearing what they have to say that I
Speaker 1: know our our our fans are going to be because
Speaker 1: even though I know them, we're giving them to a
Speaker 1: level where it's not in our normal you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's a normal no camera's tight feeling, but just to
Speaker 1: sit down conversation where they can feel like they can
Speaker 1: let their guard down. And I think that's what's most
Speaker 1: special for our viewers and our fans when we're allowed
Speaker 1: to do that for him. But the one thing too,
Speaker 1: I mean, it almost seems like to me now because
Speaker 1: Jack and I are in the media space. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't blanket everyone, but to me, it seems like
Speaker 1: it's about being first now and not necessarily right, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? And and when and when you're wrong,
Speaker 1: when you're when they're when when when the media is
Speaker 1: blasting you for something, um, they sometimes false it's headlines.
Speaker 1: But then when when we find out that okay, well
Speaker 1: you know they will someone reported that wrong. It's just
Speaker 1: a tiny blip at the bottom of the newspaper or
Speaker 1: just on the bottom line. What do you say to
Speaker 1: people who kind of see it like that, and people
Speaker 1: were involved. It feel like that. You know, you're exactly right,
Speaker 1: Matt and Uh. I do a chapter on that in
Speaker 1: Talking to Goats. It's called upon further upon further review,
Speaker 1: which is a famous statement because everybody hears that all
Speaker 1: weekend long when they watched the NFL games, you know,
Speaker 1: when they go up to the instant replay. Well, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: now in reporting, instant replay gets further and further and
Speaker 1: further away, and the rush to be number one seems
Speaker 1: to be, you know, the omnipresent, be pervasive, and seems
Speaker 1: to be so important. And I tackle a few of
Speaker 1: the things in the book which were my personal experience
Speaker 1: and and the pressures that occur. And one of them
Speaker 1: was was Richard Jewel in the Olympic bombing? Uh? And
Speaker 1: I was on NBC all night with that for the
Speaker 1: Atlanta Olympics. And here was a man whose life basically
Speaker 1: got destroyed. It became a movie last year by a
Speaker 1: Clint Eastwood rerected a film about Richard Jewel and he
Speaker 1: had passed away, but you know, the rush to judgment
Speaker 1: that he was the Olympic bomber, UH just permeated and
Speaker 1: took over. He ended up winning lawsuits against several news organizations,
Speaker 1: but his life was destroyed because of that because he
Speaker 1: wasn't the bomber. It was Eric Rudolph who who had
Speaker 1: done that, but that destroyed his life. Then we had
Speaker 1: the rush to judgment with the flate gate and espn
Speaker 1: UH coming out with information that was all wrong. That
Speaker 1: set the tone which led to a forty million dollar
Speaker 1: investigation by Ted Wells about literally, uh, the amount of
Speaker 1: a fart being let out of a football somehow changing
Speaker 1: the outcome of a game that was you know, they
Speaker 1: could have played with pillows. The score was like forty
Speaker 1: five or whatever it was ten. I mean it wasn't
Speaker 1: It was ridiculous to score so and they spent all
Speaker 1: this time and energy because they had the wrong numbers
Speaker 1: that was given out. Uh and then that took on
Speaker 1: a life of its own and we learned more what
Speaker 1: what did Bill Belichick say, He's learned more about p
Speaker 1: S I than any human beings should possibly know it
Speaker 1: And led to you know, everybody knowing about you know,
Speaker 1: gas laws. I mean, nobody even thought about this stuff.
Speaker 1: It's a football game for crying out loud and nothing
Speaker 1: to do with the outcome, but that rush to judgment,
Speaker 1: you know, really negatively affected you know, Tom Brady and
Speaker 1: his mother. Unfortunately Galen got cancer and is it related,
Speaker 1: I don't know, but stressed causes all of this stuff
Speaker 1: and just to be put through that and then people
Speaker 1: think you're a cheater for life. Okay, and you know
Speaker 1: so so those were two instances. But but exactly what
Speaker 1: you're saying, And I think, Matt, people come on your
Speaker 1: show and I watch your show and you guys, you
Speaker 1: guys are terrific at this. But you know why, it's
Speaker 1: because of your ears. Your ears will never hurt you.
Speaker 1: You guys are willing to listen, and you're willing to
Speaker 1: let your guests have their say and talk about their stories.
Speaker 1: And it's always about the other people's stories. It's about
Speaker 1: the people who are being interviewed. It's their stories. It's
Speaker 1: not the other way around. And you know, unfortunately, there
Speaker 1: is a rush to judgment. We see it just across
Speaker 1: the landscape, and and things have changed and so now
Speaker 1: nobody knows exactly where to get their news from or
Speaker 1: or what sources correct. So it's it's it's it's problematic.
Speaker 1: So what was it like covering the NBA in the
Speaker 1: nineteen nineties. It was a great time. I mean, we
Speaker 1: had a lot of a lot of great people who
Speaker 1: were playing the game then. I mean the eighties were
Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of fund too. I mean I I
Speaker 1: learned so much on the coattails of Dr J. Julius Irving,
Speaker 1: and he opened up so many doors. And prior to him,
Speaker 1: it was Marvin Webster and Paul Silas UH and and
Speaker 1: and them opening those doors. And so the UH the
Speaker 1: nineties gave way to that era of Michael Jordan's UH
Speaker 1: and those six championships that he was able to win,
Speaker 1: and the Pistons and the bad Boys, and Chuck Daily
Speaker 1: was my best friend. He introduced me to my wife.
Speaker 1: He was my partner when I first started broadcasting back
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia on a regional station called PRISM, and Chuck
Speaker 1: had been fired by the Cavaliers. He was UH fired
Speaker 1: by Ted Seption, who was the owner UH and came
Speaker 1: back into the Sixers broadcast the pregames and halftimes with me.
Speaker 1: So I was able to UH have a tremendous UH
Speaker 1: insight because of Chunk. And so that was just an
Speaker 1: It was a fascinating time. And obviously the nineties also
Speaker 1: gave way towards the end, towards the rise of the
Speaker 1: San Antonio Spurs, and and Tim Duncan uh and David
Speaker 1: Robinson and uh, you know, uh the end of that era.
Speaker 1: Uh magic and bird had bowed out. The Dream Team
Speaker 1: was part of that which caused this tremendous explosion for
Speaker 1: global basketball, for America exporting this game. Uh and and
Speaker 1: now all of the countries that participate and all of
Speaker 1: the players who come from these countries' is a all
Speaker 1: because of Jordan's and the Dream Team. And and there
Speaker 1: was nobody more fun uh to cover and to be
Speaker 1: around than Charles Barkley during all of those years. He
Speaker 1: made everybody laugh. He kept it fun. He was obviously
Speaker 1: a tremendous player, but it was just a great error.
Speaker 1: To answer your question, Stephen, it was uh, you know,
Speaker 1: every time you turned around, there was a good game,
Speaker 1: and it was a fun game. And Karl Malone and
Speaker 1: John Stockton, who could ever forget Jerry Sloan and Rudy
Speaker 1: tom Jonovitch. Rudy tom Jonovitch in the Houston Rockets, Ruddy
Speaker 1: tom Jonovitch treated so so many of us so well
Speaker 1: for so long. I'm so happy that he's going into
Speaker 1: the basketball Hall of Fame, the name Smith Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1: And uh uh he was He was just I mean,
Speaker 1: he was just wonderful. You could listen to his huddles,
Speaker 1: you could come into his locker room. He would answer
Speaker 1: any question. He trusted everybody. And I say this about
Speaker 1: Tom Brady, and this applies to Rudy tom Jonovitch. Tom
Speaker 1: Brady trusts himself, so he can trust other people. So
Speaker 1: if you make a mistake, you hang yourself. You're your
Speaker 1: own news. If you get cut or get pushed out,
Speaker 1: it's because you screwed it up. And that's how Rudy
Speaker 1: tom Jonevitch was. Everything was fair game with him and
Speaker 1: he would tell you anything. Decide how you want to
Speaker 1: use it. Speaking of Tom Brady, what is it like
Speaker 1: you guys do a radio show together? What was it
Speaker 1: like two goats, you and Tom Brady working together on
Speaker 1: your guys show. Well, he's the accomplished coat, he's the
Speaker 1: one that's throwing all the touchdown passes. But as he
Speaker 1: would be quick to say, he doesn't like that Moniker
Speaker 1: with him because A he's still playing and B He's
Speaker 1: got a lot of great teammates, and it takes the
Speaker 1: other ten who are on the field with him, and
Speaker 1: then the other eleven when he's off the field. So
Speaker 1: those twenty one other guys play a big, big part
Speaker 1: in in any success that he would have. But to
Speaker 1: do the radio show with him has been a total joy. Uh.
Speaker 1: The fact that he is, in my opinion, the best
Speaker 1: quarterback to ever play and the best player in the
Speaker 1: history of the National Football League. That he makes himself
Speaker 1: available every Monday night for more than a decade for
Speaker 1: the pregame and halftime analyzes the games, answers all the
Speaker 1: questions about football. If there's something off the field that's important, Uh,
Speaker 1: he's willing to go in and answer those questions. So
Speaker 1: UH to have that access and to have the guy
Speaker 1: he's he's become a friend and a good friend. And
Speaker 1: I'm honored that he wrote the foreword in the book,
Speaker 1: and uh that he has been willing to partner with
Speaker 1: me for all of these years. And so you know
Speaker 1: what's it like for you guys when you were able
Speaker 1: to play with Kobe or against Kobe, or when you're
Speaker 1: in the presence of Jordan's you know, it's special. You
Speaker 1: know it's unique. You know that they're special, and you
Speaker 1: know that they have done everything that it takes to
Speaker 1: get to the absolute top step of the victory platform
Speaker 1: and stay there. And he stayed there now for for
Speaker 1: twenty years and still has a chance this year. Um
Speaker 1: in a new in a new place, with a new environment.
Speaker 1: So I've learned so much from him football wise, but
Speaker 1: I've also learned a lot from him just as a
Speaker 1: human being. And if you can't get along with Tom Brady,
Speaker 1: and if you have a problem, and let me tell you,
Speaker 1: thirty cities have a problem with him. There's a whole
Speaker 1: lot of hatred towards Tom Brady, not because of anything
Speaker 1: that he has done other than beat the teams in
Speaker 1: those city beat the teams in those cities. So if
Speaker 1: you're outside of the New England area or outside of
Speaker 1: Tampa Bay, you know everybody's railing against him. But if
Speaker 1: you spend five minutes with him, or if you have
Speaker 1: a relationship with him, if you can't get along with him,
Speaker 1: you better take a good long look at yourself. Um,
Speaker 1: what you come from an error? Obviously starting when you
Speaker 1: started your career, where great players, you know, stayed with
Speaker 1: one franchise. What was your thought when Tom Brady left
Speaker 1: New England for Tampa Bay. Well, you know Tom's father,
Speaker 1: Tom Sr. He calls himself the original Tom Brady. Uh.
Speaker 1: He said this about four or five years ago. He said,
Speaker 1: it won't end well here. It never does. And he
Speaker 1: was able to look into the future having known what
Speaker 1: happened to Montana in San Francisco where where where they live. Uh,
Speaker 1: he knew what had happened, you know, with Joe Namath
Speaker 1: going obviously, uh, leaving and coming to the Rams from
Speaker 1: the Jets. He had seen it with Wayne Gretzky and
Speaker 1: how he went from Edmonton where he was a legend,
Speaker 1: to Los Angeles and then on to New York. And
Speaker 1: so you know, the landscape is littered. Michael Jordan's ending
Speaker 1: up in a Washington Wizards uniform. Um. So you just
Speaker 1: see what happens, and it's so rare when it's the
Speaker 1: Kobe Bryant circumstance, and so sports rarely ends well. And
Speaker 1: you know, so I was saddened, um, because you know,
Speaker 1: everybody wants a storybook ending, and you want your friends
Speaker 1: to be happy, and I wanted Tom to be happy.
Speaker 1: And then I figured out the more that I talked
Speaker 1: to him, and the more that he left me inside
Speaker 1: happiness was being able to leave at this time, not
Speaker 1: with any bitterness, not with any rancor not with anything
Speaker 1: but gratitude. I mean, so much is made out of this.
Speaker 1: I mean, he came there as nobody and he left revered,
Speaker 1: most revered football player in the National Football League. So
Speaker 1: he's not angry with those folks. Might it have been
Speaker 1: better from moment to moment, of course. Nobody spends any
Speaker 1: time with anybody, let alone twenty years and has it
Speaker 1: perfect all the time. There's always bumps in the road.
Speaker 1: But he's grateful, he's respectful, and he's happy with that
Speaker 1: time that he spent there. But he had to go
Speaker 1: just like it seems like the organization figured that they
Speaker 1: had to let him go or move on, and so
Speaker 1: he went to Tampa. That's where he picked. His family
Speaker 1: is happy there. Uh, they have a chance to win
Speaker 1: football games. It's not like playing in New England where
Speaker 1: he threw the ball to the same people with the
Speaker 1: same patterns and the same not the same people, but
Speaker 1: the same system for twenty years and whatever that is.
Speaker 1: How many baskets did you guys, shoot maybe a million.
Speaker 1: So he's throwing a half a million passes to these guys,
Speaker 1: and now he's going to a new place with a
Speaker 1: new coach and a new organization, and you can't expect after,
Speaker 1: you know, twelve weeks, fourteen weeks, sixteen weeks, whatever it
Speaker 1: is to have the same connection in chemistry as he
Speaker 1: had at the place where the other stuff had gone
Speaker 1: on in six championships. But as a human being, he's
Speaker 1: very very happy, and he still wants to compete, and
Speaker 1: he still has all that left in him. So UH,
Speaker 1: I think it was with a lot of mixed emotions
Speaker 1: in the book, in the Talking to Goats book. Uh.
Speaker 1: He called me before he made his announcement and we
Speaker 1: were on face time, and he had written two beautiful letters,
Speaker 1: one two the organization and his teammates and one to
Speaker 1: the fans. And when he read the one to me,
Speaker 1: to his teammates, UH, and to UH to the organization,
Speaker 1: he started to cry. And it was just such a
Speaker 1: beautiful moment because you could see just how much it
Speaker 1: had meant to him, how difficult it was, but how
Speaker 1: how relieved. Also after the tears had flown, he was
Speaker 1: that that this was the right time and the and
Speaker 1: and the right thing for him to do. I mean
Speaker 1: they raised him. I mean similar to Kobe, you know,
Speaker 1: him going there at well what early twenties or twenty
Speaker 1: years old, They saw, you know, obviously his progression as
Speaker 1: a man, not only as a player, but as a
Speaker 1: man too. So I can only imagine all the emotion
Speaker 1: attached to leaving. But like you said, and just think
Speaker 1: it's well documented that it rarely. I hate to interrupt you,
Speaker 1: but just think how close he was to pull in
Speaker 1: the plug and asking Dr Buss get me out of here,
Speaker 1: because Phil Jackson wasn't treating him right and he couldn't
Speaker 1: get along with with the circumstance that was going on
Speaker 1: in the organization. So it was just this close. And
Speaker 1: and Dr Buss, who was a brilliant guy, you know,
Speaker 1: urged patients and you know, he was a great poker player,
Speaker 1: and he was a great basketball owner and a brilliant guy,
Speaker 1: a genius of a guy. He just said, hold on
Speaker 1: here a second, and it and it all worked out,
Speaker 1: and it ended up working out great for Kobe and
Speaker 1: the Lakers, absolutely pivoting Uh you mentioned earlier, there's nothing
Speaker 1: like the energy of a prize fight. What got you
Speaker 1: into boxing? Muhammad Ali? I was an eighteen year old
Speaker 1: in my edit booth. They were converting from film to videotape.
Speaker 1: So all the film guys were in the union and
Speaker 1: they took the buy out. They didn't want to learn
Speaker 1: a new craft. So I was eighteen years old University
Speaker 1: of Colorado and they hired me to be a videotape editor.
Speaker 1: Hired a bunch of young men and women, and so
Speaker 1: I was in my edit booth editing the Broncos with
Speaker 1: Red Miller show. They were getting ready for the draft,
Speaker 1: and I was there about seven o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 1: and in came the assignment editor running in and she said,
Speaker 1: you know something about sports. You were the sports intern
Speaker 1: and you edited all the sports videotape. And I said, yeah,
Speaker 1: what's going on? She said, Muhammad Ali's two and a
Speaker 1: half hours early at the airport, go interview. I had
Speaker 1: never done an interview before. It was the first interview
Speaker 1: I was ever being asked to do. So I didn't
Speaker 1: have any any clothes. I went into the weather man's
Speaker 1: office tried to fit on his stuff, but it was
Speaker 1: too small. He was a little little hitty bitty guy
Speaker 1: named Stormy, and so I just ended up getting in
Speaker 1: my car and running out there. But you gotta understand,
Speaker 1: they couldn't find the news anchors, they couldn't find the
Speaker 1: sports anchors, they couldn't find reporters because nobody picked up
Speaker 1: their home phone at that hour. They were either sleep
Speaker 1: where they were at breakfast, or out for a jog
Speaker 1: or in the shower, whatever they were doing. So I
Speaker 1: went out there and I saw Ali, and we went
Speaker 1: into this little room at Stapleton International Airport and I
Speaker 1: asked the first question. He said, you're doing this interview,
Speaker 1: and everybody in the entourage started to laugh. Well, that
Speaker 1: laughter made me laugh because it was funny, and I
Speaker 1: wasn't ready for this interview, and it relaxed me instead
Speaker 1: of seeming like he was making fun of me. It
Speaker 1: was funny what he said. By about the third or
Speaker 1: fourth question, he said, you sound like the local Howard Cosell.
Speaker 1: And let me tell you, guys, that was the best
Speaker 1: Matt and Jackson Stephen, that was the best compliment I'd
Speaker 1: ever had in my life, Okay, and that just propelled
Speaker 1: me with confidence. So I came back to the to
Speaker 1: the station. He gave me forty five minutes, and I
Speaker 1: was going to edit my whole another man, though I'm
Speaker 1: sure not to interview you, but you came back a
Speaker 1: whole another man like I was just. I was just
Speaker 1: on cloud nine. This was the most famous guy in
Speaker 1: the world as warning icon. I have watched all of
Speaker 1: his interviews my whole life with my dad, with Muhammad
Speaker 1: Ali and Howard. So I went to edit myself out
Speaker 1: because they were going to put me on the air.
Speaker 1: I wasn't an on the air personality. I was an
Speaker 1: eighteen year old editor UH in college. So as I
Speaker 1: was editing myself out UH for the evening news, the
Speaker 1: head of the bureau walked in, the news director, man
Speaker 1: named Roger Ogden, and he watched this tape with me
Speaker 1: for an hour and a half. He watched the forty
Speaker 1: five minute interview twice. At the end of it, he
Speaker 1: looked up at me and he said, I'm putting you
Speaker 1: and this video on the air. It's barely adequate. So
Speaker 1: I tell everybody I've been barely adequate ever since, and
Speaker 1: and here we are. But that led back then they
Speaker 1: had this thing called it was an ABC station, and
Speaker 1: ABC had this UH thing that was called d e
Speaker 1: F A b C D e F D e F
Speaker 1: for daily electronic feed, and they would feed out everything
Speaker 1: from the local stations to each other, so all of
Speaker 1: the ABC affiliates would get this. So they uploaded mine
Speaker 1: on the daily electronic feed to all the other ABC stations.
Speaker 1: Well almost all the stations took it down and put
Speaker 1: it on their news because here was a young kid
Speaker 1: interviewing Ali. Well that got back to Ali that it
Speaker 1: was a big success the interview and how he had
Speaker 1: treated me, and and so he started letting me come
Speaker 1: to all of his fights from then on and interview
Speaker 1: him before the fight and after the fight. And so
Speaker 1: ABC took notice of that, and my boss took notice
Speaker 1: of that, and then Bob Aram hired me because he
Speaker 1: saw that Ali had opened the door. So if Ali
Speaker 1: was good with me, then he started letting me interview
Speaker 1: Haggler and Hearns and Durant and all of his big
Speaker 1: fighters that Ray Sugar, Ray Leonard, and so that opened
Speaker 1: the door. And then Don King saw that, and then
Speaker 1: so Don King and Bob Aram, who were big big rivals,
Speaker 1: both hired me. And I was just a young kid
Speaker 1: and they would bring me in before their big close
Speaker 1: circuit fights to do all of the interviews for that week. Well,
Speaker 1: back then, you know, there wasn't they They didn't have
Speaker 1: stuff like we have now. So this this was a
Speaker 1: way that every station in the country could get material
Speaker 1: without having to pay to put a reporter there. They'd
Speaker 1: get all of these interviews. And so it just opened
Speaker 1: all of the doors. And and uh so it's Mohammed
Speaker 1: Ali to answer your question. It was a long answer.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, m oh good it was a great answer.
Speaker 1: I mean, before we're moving forward, I mean they kind
Speaker 1: of hear how it started. Can you explain to our
Speaker 1: viewers where all those beautiful statues are behind? Well? Those
Speaker 1: are all those are. This is a glove given to
Speaker 1: me from Mohammed Ali. There's the great Nelson Mandela beautiful.
Speaker 1: Uh that's my wife and my dog friend. My my
Speaker 1: dog name is Raith. My wife is friend. There's Mohammed
Speaker 1: Ali and Fraser. And there's my big hero. There's my
Speaker 1: big hero right there, my dad and he passed away.
Speaker 1: And there's my mom. She's in Denver. So that's everything
Speaker 1: that you know. And there's the Colonel. There's two pictures
Speaker 1: of the colonel. I call him the Colonel Jack Nicholson,
Speaker 1: Colonel Nathan Jessop, He's got he's got a nickname for
Speaker 1: you too, doesn't Jack Nichols. Getting back to to where
Speaker 1: we're at, um, and there's there you go. I saw
Speaker 1: the Alie in the corner. I could see that. What
Speaker 1: how different were Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson first as
Speaker 1: fighters but then his people as well. Totally different on
Speaker 1: all ends, um, Uh, totally different and almost everything that
Speaker 1: they've done in their lives in the way that they've
Speaker 1: approached it. Um, both great great fighters. Uh. Mike Tyson
Speaker 1: was seek and destroy and was powerful and you know,
Speaker 1: had a huge intimidation factor. And uh would go would
Speaker 1: go into the ring with the you know, with just
Speaker 1: that brutal towel over him and and those black shirt,
Speaker 1: black laced, black laced shoes and and you know, kind
Speaker 1: of stalk back and forth and walk around. And Ali
Speaker 1: was much different in his style and an elegant robe
Speaker 1: with beautiful pretty face and I'm so pretty and um
Speaker 1: the greatest of all times, and you know, and and
Speaker 1: and his his uh, his approach was different, his body
Speaker 1: language was different, his uh skill level was different. So uh,
Speaker 1: and and Ali Tyson Tyson is Tyson is a brilliant man. Okay,
Speaker 1: Mike Tyson is is really really intelligent. I mean he
Speaker 1: has Arthur Ashe on this shoulder, and Days of Grace
Speaker 1: and Chairman Mau on this shoulder, and he can recite
Speaker 1: the tenets of the of the Red Book, and he
Speaker 1: can tell you about history and Napoleon and Shakespeare, and
Speaker 1: he can go up and down all the lineage of boxing.
Speaker 1: And he has tremendous wherewithal and and and is really
Speaker 1: really incredible by and then Ali obviously, you know Ali
Speaker 1: was with Shakespeare. Ali was a poet and he was
Speaker 1: he was, he was fun, he was eloquent, he was boastful,
Speaker 1: he was he was principled, he was he was all
Speaker 1: of those things that we look at and we and
Speaker 1: and and we hold in such high admiration and aspire to.
Speaker 1: And Mike, uh, there's just so much to respect as well.
Speaker 1: You know, Mike Tyson at his worst moments, uh, Matt
Speaker 1: and Stephen, at his worst moments, he comes out and
Speaker 1: faces the music and he answers the questions, particularly with me,
Speaker 1: and I've always been grateful for that. He's not hiding
Speaker 1: behind the press release, He's not hiding behind some pr spin.
Speaker 1: He's not saying, my lawyer will handle that. He's not saying.
Speaker 1: Let the Nevada State Athletic Commission decide what happens, and
Speaker 1: then I'll release a statement. He comes out and he
Speaker 1: takes his own medicine. And Mike wrote me a letter
Speaker 1: when he was in the Indiana and the Youth Penitentiary,
Speaker 1: in the correctional facility in prison, and it came to
Speaker 1: my house in Atlanta, and it had already been opened
Speaker 1: because the warden or the prison officials, I guess they
Speaker 1: do that so that they make sure that whatever's leaving
Speaker 1: the prison is okay to be viewed or to be seen.
Speaker 1: And so um, I got to the second page, and
Speaker 1: the letter said, they'll let me out of prison tomorrow
Speaker 1: if I'll admit to this rape. But I'll never admit
Speaker 1: Mr Gray to something that I did not do, so
Speaker 1: I'm going to stay here in prison. Next paragraph, However,
Speaker 1: there are four or five other things that I've done
Speaker 1: throughout the course of my life that are worse than
Speaker 1: what I'm accused of. Therefore, I feel I'm at the
Speaker 1: right place at this time. Wow. So he got out
Speaker 1: of prison and he let me do the first interview
Speaker 1: with him when he got out of prison, and I said, Mike,
Speaker 1: is this a personal letter or can I make it public?
Speaker 1: If you don't want me to say this, I won't,
Speaker 1: but if you do, then then I will. And he said,
Speaker 1: you can ask whatever you want. It's not a problem.
Speaker 1: So I asked him, what's worse than what you were
Speaker 1: accused of? And he looked over at his lawyer, he
Speaker 1: looked back at me, and he looked into the camera
Speaker 1: and he said, you know, it's probably best not to
Speaker 1: answer this on national television because I don't know the
Speaker 1: statue of limitations. However, what I wrote you is true.
Speaker 1: I was in the right place at the right time.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Powerful. So they're they're much different people, much
Speaker 1: different people, but they they're both both great in their
Speaker 1: own right. But no, but nobody'll ever be like Ali.
Speaker 1: Ali was. That's why he is, That's why he's on top.
Speaker 1: He is the goat. He invented it. Uh and and
Speaker 1: for what he did inside and out of the ring. Uh.
Speaker 1: In all aspects, Ali is by himself. Tyson started off
Speaker 1: his career like and just think about how he was
Speaker 1: in his right mind, how how he was guided by
Speaker 1: custom model but he had a good camp to right
Speaker 1: people with him. How much greater could Tyson have been?
Speaker 1: Probably probably could have been been much greater, But but
Speaker 1: he fell, He fell prey to all of the vices.
Speaker 1: And he's not regretful of it. But he spent all
Speaker 1: that money, He enjoyed his life. He did all those
Speaker 1: things that he wanted to do with women and drugs,
Speaker 1: and to satisfy any personal need for that moment, any
Speaker 1: in any any need he had to have pleasure, he
Speaker 1: just went for it. And so he's not regretful of it,
Speaker 1: because he would be the first to tell you I
Speaker 1: I lived the way I wanted to live and had
Speaker 1: a great life. And if that meant having tigers in
Speaker 1: his house or being bitten by the lion, you know,
Speaker 1: he was doing what he wanted to do. Or if
Speaker 1: it was in his quiet moments, which he still has
Speaker 1: now with with the homing pigeons and and and you
Speaker 1: know where he takes so much solace in that, but
Speaker 1: he was he was diverted mentally by all of these distractions.
Speaker 1: And and you saw it play out in the ring
Speaker 1: because you can't you know, you can't play boxing. Okay,
Speaker 1: it's a serious sport, and everybody who's coming at you
Speaker 1: is serious about it. So you know, he was playing
Speaker 1: too much with with the very thing that brought him
Speaker 1: all of this attention, all of this money, all of
Speaker 1: this glory, and so yeah, I'm sure he could have
Speaker 1: been a lot greater, but I don't think that he
Speaker 1: would tell you that he would change much of it.
Speaker 1: In fact, just did an interview with him, uh, for
Speaker 1: the book Talking to Goats. We had an hour special
Speaker 1: and I asked him specifically about some of those things
Speaker 1: that that he doesn't have regret for, and he said
Speaker 1: he probably would bite that air all over again, uh
Speaker 1: if if that's what happened to him. So he's had
Speaker 1: a long time to think about a lot of this.
Speaker 1: And you know the great thing about Mike is, you
Speaker 1: know the stuff that is in the rear view mirror. Uh,
Speaker 1: he he doesn't try and deny it. He says, you know,
Speaker 1: that was my glory and even if they were despicable
Speaker 1: and bad acts, you know, nobody was going to take
Speaker 1: my glory. So uh, you know, I've always respected that
Speaker 1: that he he wants to own what it is that
Speaker 1: he has done and try and be better with how
Speaker 1: he goes forward than he has been in the past.
Speaker 1: I'm a big I'm a big fan. I'm going to Tachi. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm a huge mic fan. Being someone who had the
Speaker 1: opportunity to really get to know him outside of just
Speaker 1: these interviews. Was it something that from from a distance
Speaker 1: you saw coming when you kind of felt like he
Speaker 1: fell from Grace's Was it the Buster Douglas fight or
Speaker 1: was it before? Like it was, it was a culmination
Speaker 1: of things adding up. Did you see anything as first
Speaker 1: of all a friend, but second of all as okay,
Speaker 1: as your as your job in this space, like oh, Matt,
Speaker 1: you could see this coming from a million miles And
Speaker 1: you didn't have to be no noster damas you know,
Speaker 1: you didn't even have to have a crystal ball you could.
Speaker 1: You knew that this was going to happen. You just
Speaker 1: you just knew that the way he lived his his
Speaker 1: his life with the wave of emotions and the roller
Speaker 1: coaster that he lived on, and you know that juiced
Speaker 1: him up to that that used to make him great.
Speaker 1: And I've often thought with a lot of these great
Speaker 1: athletes who performed these incredible skills, if you start altering uh,
Speaker 1: that very being that they are and you try toning
Speaker 1: him down in this area, or making him more polite
Speaker 1: in this area, or if you just alter whatever it
Speaker 1: is of those guys. If you didn't tell Michael Phelps,
Speaker 1: if you didn't tell Michael Phelps, hey, you know what,
Speaker 1: You've been staring at a black line almost your entire
Speaker 1: adult life to figure out how you could get an
Speaker 1: eyelash or a fingernail to that end board. First, if
Speaker 1: you started telling him to do something other than staring
Speaker 1: at that black line for the countless hours, days, months,
Speaker 1: and years that he did, well, he wouldn't be the
Speaker 1: most decorated gold medalist in the history of the Olympics
Speaker 1: because you would have altered that. So if you start
Speaker 1: altering Mike what he was, he might have not had
Speaker 1: that ferocious uh response that he had that made him great,
Speaker 1: that made him all have the entire world want to
Speaker 1: watch him. So you could see it coming and you
Speaker 1: knew that it was going to crash, But that was
Speaker 1: all part of the beauty of it. You know, nobody,
Speaker 1: nobody has attracted the call. Everybody's attracted to the hurricane.
Speaker 1: We all tune in to see the damage that the
Speaker 1: hurricane does. Nobody really looks outside when it's sunny and
Speaker 1: seventy eight. M h, you had an opportunity to obviously
Speaker 1: get to know Mike and Muhammad ali Um in their primes.
Speaker 1: And I hate to put you on the spot because
Speaker 1: obviously this is all speculation. Who do you feel like
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to fight when they're both in their prime? Ali?
Speaker 1: I think he proved that against Foreman, so I would
Speaker 1: I would say, Ali, And the good news is is uh, Mike.
Speaker 1: He says it right here on the back cover, so
Speaker 1: he won't be mad. He said, I'm his most trusted friends,
Speaker 1: so he would understand that. And I think he believed
Speaker 1: that too, So don't come calling and screaming at me, Mike.
Speaker 1: He wouldn't do that. But no, I believe Ali um
Speaker 1: to see Mike back. What do you guys think? Let
Speaker 1: me ask you that question. I'm gonna I know what
Speaker 1: you're what you show. You're asking the questions, But what
Speaker 1: do you guys think? I think? I think. I think
Speaker 1: Ali got a live it too much for him. I
Speaker 1: think the same kind of problems Landox gave Mike, I
Speaker 1: think Ali would have gave him times ten. Matt, what
Speaker 1: do you think? I agree? I agree? I agree I mean,
Speaker 1: my only thing is if it Mike could have got
Speaker 1: obviously inside, which was tough to do, but got him
Speaker 1: on the ropes inside and hit him with an uppercut.
Speaker 1: That's gonna put anybody to sleep. So that would be
Speaker 1: my only you know thinking. But uh, you know, as
Speaker 1: far as just straight boxing to me, I've never said.
Speaker 1: Obviously I wasn't around in all least primes, so everything
Speaker 1: I had to go back and watch. But from what
Speaker 1: I saw, I don't. I don't think anyone when Ali
Speaker 1: was on his game, game, he showed didn't no one
Speaker 1: could beat him. What do you mate? I just turned
Speaker 1: forty in March l a days wait quick, yeah, man, didn't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just I'm twenty years from you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: it goes by fast. Does just say that it goes
Speaker 1: by fast? I had my twenty year high twenty twenty
Speaker 1: year high school reunion, and I'm coming up man in
Speaker 1: in in two years, I'll be my twenty year college
Speaker 1: just like, holy holy, holy holy, it's going by two
Speaker 1: first even, how long are you removed from there party?
Speaker 1: I'm forty two years old. Wow, forty two years old? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've been I've been out the league. What's going on
Speaker 1: five years now? I'm three removed. Yeah, it goes by fast.
Speaker 1: It goes by fast. Longevity is key um thoughts on Mike.
Speaker 1: One last thing on Mike. Thoughts on Mike getting back
Speaker 1: in the ring. We just saw an exhibition against Roy Jones.
Speaker 1: I think Mike held back a little bit on some shots.
Speaker 1: He probably could have really hurt Roy. But to see
Speaker 1: after everything he's been through, good, bad and in between,
Speaker 1: to see Mike back out there, because it looked like
Speaker 1: leading up he was really enjoying himself training and and
Speaker 1: and just kind of getting because you heard him talk
Speaker 1: before that he missed that. So to see him back
Speaker 1: out there, what did that mean to you? I thought
Speaker 1: it was a terrific night. It was fun. He lost
Speaker 1: a hundred pounds. He had rededicated himself. He hadn't found
Speaker 1: that in him since you know, he had quit on showtime.
Speaker 1: We did that fight against McBride where he just said,
Speaker 1: I can't be this person anymore. I don't have it
Speaker 1: in me. And then to be able to see what
Speaker 1: he did a couple of weeks ago against the Roy
Speaker 1: Jones Jr. And he didn't try to hurt him. He
Speaker 1: understood that it was an exhibition. And you know, as
Speaker 1: Snooped so eloquently said on the air that night, put
Speaker 1: some sauce on those ribs, please. Uh. You know, he
Speaker 1: had him pretty good to the mid section on several occasions,
Speaker 1: but he didn't he didn't want to hit him in
Speaker 1: the face. And Roy did very well. I mean, Roy's
Speaker 1: fifty one years old and he stood in there and
Speaker 1: you can tell he was exhausted, but he made it
Speaker 1: through and he acquitted himself well. So you know, I
Speaker 1: was happy for Mike. You know that at least he
Speaker 1: came out there and was able to accomplish what he
Speaker 1: set out to do. And he gave the fans and
Speaker 1: he gave a whole a whole new generation at least
Speaker 1: the ability to see him in good shape and to
Speaker 1: go into the ring. And I'm sure it'll set up
Speaker 1: for him to be able to do this again. Who
Speaker 1: that will be, I'm not sure where that will be
Speaker 1: or or how that will go. But it was a
Speaker 1: tremendous financial success, it was a tremendous physical success, and
Speaker 1: they pulled it off in these COVID times and uh,
Speaker 1: everybody who tuned in seemed to uh seem to be happy.
Speaker 1: There don't seem to be a whole lot of complaints.
Speaker 1: And we get a lot of complaints in boxing. We
Speaker 1: get a lot of people who don't like what they
Speaker 1: see and and I haven't. I haven't heard that, and
Speaker 1: as well they shouldn't. It was it was. I thought
Speaker 1: it was a uh an excellent exhibition and that uh,
Speaker 1: Mike look terrific. And you know they're going to score
Speaker 1: this thing a draw before they start, because the Athletic
Speaker 1: Commission in California doesn't allow you to score an exhibition.
Speaker 1: So the three celebrity judges who they had are doing
Speaker 1: it off a television and I'm sure it was all
Speaker 1: you know, set in so far as they weren't going
Speaker 1: to announce a winner, But anybody who watched the fight,
Speaker 1: uh could clearly tell that Mike dominated seeing that exhibition. UM.
Speaker 1: Just hearing that Floyd announced that he's going to be fighting. UM.
Speaker 1: I think Logan Paul as someone who's been in the
Speaker 1: game from Ali to Tyson to to seeing Floyd's greatness
Speaker 1: throughout his career, how do you feel when you see
Speaker 1: arguably one of the greatest fighters of all time fighting
Speaker 1: a YouTube star. I'm never one that says somebody shouldn't
Speaker 1: do what they want to do because only they know
Speaker 1: how they feel. So only Floyd knows how he feels,
Speaker 1: and this is what he wants to do, and he
Speaker 1: feels good about it. So whether or not the public
Speaker 1: will buy into this or want to see it, that's
Speaker 1: a whole different equation. But I think that you know,
Speaker 1: we live in We live in a place where you
Speaker 1: are free to go about and do what you want
Speaker 1: to do. So this is what he is determined he
Speaker 1: wants to do. He feels that he'll make money doing this.
Speaker 1: I guess it feels that I have some fun. Uh.
Speaker 1: Mr Paul is one of these guys who obviously has
Speaker 1: a tremendous following on social media. Is brother Jake just
Speaker 1: knocked out Nate Robinson the other night? Uh, and he
Speaker 1: has committed himself. I don't know what logan is in
Speaker 1: terms of boxing, but the younger brother or brother Jake,
Speaker 1: has decided that that's the profession that he wants to pursue.
Speaker 1: So look, Floyd's forty five years old. Um, he hasn't
Speaker 1: really fought. Uh. You know the Connor McGregor was uh
Speaker 1: an exhibition really as well? It was. It was a
Speaker 1: huge payday and it was a fight that goes on
Speaker 1: his record, and then he ended up with Berto after that.
Speaker 1: But I guess, you know, Floyd wants to stay active
Speaker 1: in a minimal way and do this, And who am
Speaker 1: I to sit here in judgment and say, no, don't
Speaker 1: do that. This isn't good, It's not good for you,
Speaker 1: It's not good. No, I don't believe that. I believe
Speaker 1: it's fine. If this is what he wants to do.
Speaker 1: Let the public decide. Let the public decide if they
Speaker 1: want to see this, Let boxing fans decide if they
Speaker 1: want to see it, and sure, go ahead. What do
Speaker 1: you guys think? I think it's great. I mean I
Speaker 1: like it. Like you said, you can say what you want,
Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, people are going
Speaker 1: to tune in. And that's why I think overall, stuff
Speaker 1: like this happens because people do want to see this,
Speaker 1: and I think too often UH media or people with
Speaker 1: the platform UH will critique sit. It's like Dana White
Speaker 1: came out and kind of took a stab at what
Speaker 1: the state of boxing he is with us. But I
Speaker 1: kind of feel like if everyone just listen to what
Speaker 1: you said and thought how you thought the whole world
Speaker 1: would be different first and foremost, but you know, stuff
Speaker 1: around sports would be different. Like you, to be an athlete,
Speaker 1: we have, you know, a small window to be as
Speaker 1: great as we can, accumulate as much money as we can,
Speaker 1: and when it's over, it's over, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So for Floyd to be as great as he was,
Speaker 1: no blemishes on his record, like you said, forty five,
Speaker 1: it's still gonna be a cool little pay day and
Speaker 1: like you said, minimal work because we all know what's
Speaker 1: gonna happen. I see nothing wrong with it. He's Floyd Mayweather.
Speaker 1: He can do what he wants as long as it
Speaker 1: conforms to with what's in the law. Why not, And
Speaker 1: he's been a fighter his whole professional life. Wants to
Speaker 1: have an exhibition great, I mean, the people have their choice.
Speaker 1: If you want to watch it, you're gonna watch it.
Speaker 1: And if you don't, then you'll move on to something else.
Speaker 1: And guess what, it will attract a lot of attention.
Speaker 1: He's Floyd Mayweather, he's a perfect fifty. And oh and
Speaker 1: apparently this other young man has a huge following of
Speaker 1: young Pole and uh so that's going to attract attention
Speaker 1: and we'll see how it collides. But don't want to
Speaker 1: see Logan getting knocked out. His brother just t k
Speaker 1: o Nate not naked. He knock Nate under the ring.
Speaker 1: They're probably still trying to wake Nate up. Ever, the
Speaker 1: world want to see Mayweather get knocked Logan out just
Speaker 1: for advantage, and that's just what it is. So people
Speaker 1: want to see it because of that. Let's just keep
Speaker 1: it already. It'll be interesting me if if if Floyd
Speaker 1: takes the same path that Mike did and and and
Speaker 1: doesn't want to hurt the young man, because because Floyd
Speaker 1: Mayweather is one of the greatest fighters in the history
Speaker 1: of boxing, and he didn't lose all of his skills
Speaker 1: and all of his talent because he hasn't fought for
Speaker 1: a couple of years now, he will have all of that.
Speaker 1: So I'm sure that he could do great damage to
Speaker 1: this guy. The question is is whether he will have
Speaker 1: mercy and and and let him be, or whether or
Speaker 1: not we will see it unleashed Jack. What do you
Speaker 1: think should he have mercy or unleashed that ship unleashed man?
Speaker 1: I like because because because just think about it like this, though,
Speaker 1: if he lands good punch on Floyd where days a
Speaker 1: main thing. He's going to live up that for the
Speaker 1: rest of his life. So Floyd going there and knock
Speaker 1: him clean out. One of the first fights I got
Speaker 1: to go to was al Lee against Alzado. That's why
Speaker 1: he came to Denver for that interview. He was gonna
Speaker 1: fight Spins and then he was gonna fight Lyle Alsado,
Speaker 1: a Denver bronco who went on to win a championship
Speaker 1: with the with the Raiders. But they had that at
Speaker 1: Mile High Stadium and Ali clowned and played for als Ado.
Speaker 1: He wanted to land a punch and he wanted to
Speaker 1: actually hit the champ and so it was serious for him.
Speaker 1: And you know, he didn't obviously win the fight, but
Speaker 1: it was it was something that was more than an
Speaker 1: exhibition to the football player, and obviously nothing but an
Speaker 1: exhibition to the boxer. So it'll be interesting to see
Speaker 1: what type of approach Floyd takes on that. Okay, goat,
Speaker 1: what was it like to cover two other goats, Shack
Speaker 1: and Kobe. Well, it was fun. I mean Shack made
Speaker 1: things so much fun. I mean, Shack was a brilliant
Speaker 1: basketball player who who you know, obviously was a big,
Speaker 1: big guy. And and like Will Chamberlain said, nobody loves
Speaker 1: a giant. So everybody used to beat up on Shack
Speaker 1: and he used to have to take it from the
Speaker 1: referees and take it from opponents and so forth. And
Speaker 1: but Chack's a big, lovable guy, still is to this day.
Speaker 1: And but there was a there was a personality conflict
Speaker 1: with Kobe because you know, they each it felt that
Speaker 1: you know, it was their team and and and and
Speaker 1: obviously Phil Jackson was involved in this, and you know,
Speaker 1: Shack was a much more sensitive guy. So Kobe got
Speaker 1: beaten up upon, and it took a toll on Kobe,
Speaker 1: and uh it set him back. You know, it didn't
Speaker 1: it didn't necessarily uh shake him, uh in terms of
Speaker 1: of of his ability to move forward and continue to
Speaker 1: u achieve greatness and want to be the best basketball
Speaker 1: player of all time. He was myopic in that view.
Speaker 1: But it wore him down. Uh And so, um, you know,
Speaker 1: they didn't have an appreciation. Chack didn't have necessarily an
Speaker 1: appreciation of Kobe until it was too late, until him
Speaker 1: and Phil had had beaten him up so bad that
Speaker 1: that that Kobe just wanted out and wanted away, and
Speaker 1: and because he wanted away, and they figured that it it
Speaker 1: was better for for Shack to move on. Um. And
Speaker 1: you know when he went through that diet tribe with
Speaker 1: me in the interview that we did, uh Kobe had
Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of venom. And the one thing I
Speaker 1: think that you know, having been his teammate, uh Matt
Speaker 1: and then you know, having that famous thing where and
Speaker 1: you saw where he didn't he didn't flinch when you
Speaker 1: were with the Orlando Magic. One thing about Kobe, Kobe
Speaker 1: was myopic, and he just wanted to win. And if
Speaker 1: you were in his way as an opponent, he got
Speaker 1: you out of the way. And if you were in
Speaker 1: his way as a teammate, guess what, he treated you
Speaker 1: the same way. He got you out of the way.
Speaker 1: And he did the same thing with Phil. He had
Speaker 1: total disdain for a long time with Phil Jackson. He
Speaker 1: despised him, and even Phil wrote in his book that
Speaker 1: he could feel that hatred coming from Kobe. Now they
Speaker 1: ended up fine, and they ended up winning more championships
Speaker 1: and and they patched it up later in life as
Speaker 1: they moved on. But Kobe, Kobe was certainly distracted and
Speaker 1: distraught with that treatment. And so when he when he
Speaker 1: gave that interview, I had to tone him down. I said, Kobe,
Speaker 1: we can't you know. And it's and it's in the
Speaker 1: talking to go to his book, Uh, I said, Kobe,
Speaker 1: if if I put this on the air, Um, there
Speaker 1: was one statement in particular, I said, first of all,
Speaker 1: you'll never ever have any kind of a relationship, let
Speaker 1: alone win championships with this guy. Uh and and and
Speaker 1: this organization. But you'll also have a hard time just
Speaker 1: going to work every day. I said, We'll let the
Speaker 1: rest of this go because they're your words, not mine.
Speaker 1: And but the one, the one, the one statement that
Speaker 1: we took out that I said, Kobe, I'm editing this out.
Speaker 1: I said, not only for you, but for me. I
Speaker 1: I have to have a relationship with Shack. He's said, uh.
Speaker 1: He said that Quille O'Neill he was referring to. He said,
Speaker 1: the guy selling donuts at the seven eleven had more
Speaker 1: pride in his job than Shack did. And this was
Speaker 1: the same interview that he had gone public calling him
Speaker 1: fat and lazy, and that he had surgery on the
Speaker 1: organization's time and he would do it on company time.
Speaker 1: Instead of his time while he wasn't ready for the season,
Speaker 1: and so you know, it was volatile enough without that.
Speaker 1: And for the next two or three years, Uh, Shack.
Speaker 1: I called Shack before this interview came out to give
Speaker 1: them a heads up because I really like Shack and
Speaker 1: I enjoyed covering him and we had a terrific relationship.
Speaker 1: And he didn't want to respond, And then it came
Speaker 1: out and he threatened to kill Kobe the next day.
Speaker 1: In fact, they put in a metal detector over there
Speaker 1: and Kobe jumped up and said, let's fight, okay. And
Speaker 1: all of this has been confirmed by Shack as recently
Speaker 1: as the All Star Game this February in Chicago, and
Speaker 1: by John Black, the PR director of the Lakers former
Speaker 1: PR direct here. But anyway, I called him to let
Speaker 1: him know this interview was coming out, guys, and he
Speaker 1: didn't want to respond. But for the next two or
Speaker 1: three years he called me Trader Gray. Here, it comes
Speaker 1: Trader Gray, and he wouldn't talk to me. Trader Gray,
Speaker 1: Trader Gray. So we have a great relationship now and
Speaker 1: I love I love Shack. But when you ask about
Speaker 1: what it was like to cover them, uh, they had
Speaker 1: obviously tremendous highs with those uh three peak championships and
Speaker 1: uh to see that excellence of one of the greatest
Speaker 1: tandems in the history of of of basketball. But they
Speaker 1: also had some some really really really low lows, and
Speaker 1: so it was always unique and interesting. And I loved Kobe,
Speaker 1: and I knew Kobe from the time that he was
Speaker 1: an infant in in his mother Pam's arms. I was
Speaker 1: a scout believe it or not, guys for the San
Speaker 1: Diego Clippers, for Paul Silas and Pete Babcox. I had
Speaker 1: known Kobe as just uh. I'd seen Kobe grow from
Speaker 1: when his dad Jelly being played for the Clippers, and
Speaker 1: obviously my time in Philadelphia and and then so forth.
Speaker 1: But UH still hurt, still hurt, and grief that loss,
Speaker 1: and it's just tragic for Vanessa and the girls and
Speaker 1: the other families. But covering them, covering them was a
Speaker 1: great joy, and it was it was really really an
Speaker 1: interesting time and and something that will never see again. Nothing.
Speaker 1: You know, what I find interesting obviously is to me
Speaker 1: knowing code the way I did, and when I hear
Speaker 1: new stories, he used all the negativity as fire like
Speaker 1: that's what you saw on the court that mambo was
Speaker 1: he had a way of channeling all the other noise
Speaker 1: and distractions and bullshit into fire. But then at the
Speaker 1: same time, it's also amazing to hear the human side
Speaker 1: to let people know, like people have feelings, like this
Speaker 1: really wore him down and and I never knew that.
Speaker 1: And like to me, like I said, it's just interesting,
Speaker 1: especially when you're hearing about the goats, but just people
Speaker 1: in general. I think often people think we're robots that
Speaker 1: were just straight athletes because we make money, nothing affects
Speaker 1: us nothing. But it's interesting to hear that the human
Speaker 1: and the emotional side of what that cause, you know,
Speaker 1: because I know I hear a lot and have been
Speaker 1: around l A's kind of since Code got here, and
Speaker 1: you would hear stuff like, damn, they really did used
Speaker 1: to funk with Code, you know. I heard one story
Speaker 1: one time where and it was confirmed that Code would
Speaker 1: come on the plane of the bus sometimes with his
Speaker 1: headphones on but off, just so we can kind of
Speaker 1: hear what kind of ship that Shaq was gonna, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of be saying, but you know, everyone you might
Speaker 1: have thought they were on, but to kind of hear,
Speaker 1: you know, the human side and and and how that
Speaker 1: did beat him up and wear him down. But to
Speaker 1: see the finished product of what it turned him into,
Speaker 1: you know, it was pretty special. Shack was brutal to Kobe. Okay,
Speaker 1: he would he he was brutal in many ways. Uh
Speaker 1: take all the success aside. I mean, you know, Shack
Speaker 1: knows how to get everybody to coalesced around him. He's fun,
Speaker 1: he's engaging, he's he's light. Shock notes, Shack is a great,
Speaker 1: Shock is a great. You know, I played with Shock.
Speaker 1: I love Shocked to death. But like I said, you
Speaker 1: were around and then hearing stories it it sounds like
Speaker 1: it was. It was. It wasn't all out of time.
Speaker 1: He knew how to recruit guys into his camp, and
Speaker 1: Kobe wasn't. Kobe wasn't trying to be in anybody's camp.
Speaker 1: Kobe was trying to be the best basketball player ever
Speaker 1: and win championships. So he wasn't engaged in that type
Speaker 1: of fraternal order or you know, have to be the
Speaker 1: pipe piper, so to speak. And so you know, it
Speaker 1: worked against him and hurt him, but it also helped
Speaker 1: elevate him because he became stronger mentally. That Mamba mentality.
Speaker 1: And you know the good thing was it's by the
Speaker 1: end of Kobe's life. You know, they had worked out
Speaker 1: at the tant They weren't close, they weren't the best
Speaker 1: of buddies, they didn't hang out, but you know, they
Speaker 1: had a dant that they realized the time that they
Speaker 1: had spent together with Special that it probably had ended
Speaker 1: too soon. But Kobe went on and did what he
Speaker 1: wanted to do and prove to himself that he could
Speaker 1: be a champion with pall Gasol and with other teammates
Speaker 1: and to be the leader of the group. Instead of
Speaker 1: having you know, Shot make a self declaration that it
Speaker 1: was his team, Kobe was able to prove that no,
Speaker 1: it was it was in fact his team. So um,
Speaker 1: and at the end of the day, you know, you
Speaker 1: probably never know how good you have it till you
Speaker 1: don't have it anymore. I mean, everybody's life is kind
Speaker 1: of riddled with that, right. Um. All of us looked
Speaker 1: back and said, you know, that was pretty good. Why
Speaker 1: did I do things like that? And I think that
Speaker 1: they had come to to that, Like I say that
Speaker 1: the tome where they had come back together, not close,
Speaker 1: but just not antagonized anymore. What made Kobe, in your eyes,
Speaker 1: so special, He cared so much. He cared, he dug
Speaker 1: into everything deeply. If he was committed, he was committed,
Speaker 1: and that meant friendship to and loyalty. Was very loyal
Speaker 1: to me. I saw his loyalty play out UH in
Speaker 1: numerous ways, UH to a host of folks. And he
Speaker 1: never forgot. This guy had a memory. You talked about
Speaker 1: elephants have memories. No Kobe's. Kobe's have memories. They should
Speaker 1: rename the term. This guy did not forget anything about
Speaker 1: anybody at any time. If it was an act of kindness,
Speaker 1: he always appreciated it. If it was a slight, he
Speaker 1: had it filed. He had a big, big cabinet, and
Speaker 1: he knew, he knew where everybody was all the time,
Speaker 1: and he had it all sorted out. So he had
Speaker 1: he had a great, great memory, and he could also compartmentalize,
Speaker 1: and he would use for good what worked for good
Speaker 1: for him, and use for bad. As you pointed out earlier,
Speaker 1: that motivation and that fire and it drove him. And
Speaker 1: I think the other thing that that happened with Kobe
Speaker 1: is Kobe had a thousands and thousands of acts of
Speaker 1: kindness and he didn't look for recognition of it. He
Speaker 1: didn't want that acknowledgement. He didn't want that to go
Speaker 1: against that Mamba mentality that maybe somehow somebody might figure
Speaker 1: out that he had a softness, you know, that that
Speaker 1: that would work against him. But let's remember what's the
Speaker 1: most lasting impression that we have now of Kobe Bryant.
Speaker 1: It's kissing Gig, It's it's it's girl dad, that hashtag,
Speaker 1: it's it's you know, not only what he achieved on
Speaker 1: the basketball court, but it's that love that everybody has
Speaker 1: for him, what they saw off the court. And I
Speaker 1: was able to see that, you know, virtually his whole
Speaker 1: life and so and and that's what hurts so bad
Speaker 1: is that we don't have that anymore. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's crazy you said that the lasting memory,
Speaker 1: because I felt the same way. I actually got that
Speaker 1: tattooed on my leg her at the All Star Game,
Speaker 1: reaching up and giving her dad a kiss. I I
Speaker 1: got that tatted on my leg about four months ago.
Speaker 1: So that is, at the end of the day, say
Speaker 1: what you want to me, that's what it was for me.
Speaker 1: You know, everything else was great, but the dad he
Speaker 1: was was what was so special and that's what really
Speaker 1: over Our connection grew was with kids and him sending
Speaker 1: my kids shoes and him coming to my kid's AU
Speaker 1: games and us going to check out GIS games. Like
Speaker 1: that was my eatness aside mamba side, like the human
Speaker 1: side of of Kobe is is what I, you know,
Speaker 1: always hold on to whenever I'm kind of feeling down
Speaker 1: about anything. He was special. It was just special. And
Speaker 1: I get goose bumps there and you say that about
Speaker 1: the tattoo, the tattoo that you have, and you know,
Speaker 1: I I knew him on on on, you know, just
Speaker 1: just just as a great, great friend. And we took
Speaker 1: a trip a few years ago uh to Hong Kong.
Speaker 1: Uh number of people in Hong Kong's some billionaires and
Speaker 1: Chinese billionaires wanted to hear Kobe speak, and so, UH
Speaker 1: make a long story short, they had me come interview him.
Speaker 1: And then after this interview for like twenty people for
Speaker 1: an hour, we went to a bar in Hong Kong
Speaker 1: and they only spoke Chinese there except where we sang karaoke.
Speaker 1: And Uh, I just never forget that night of of
Speaker 1: Kobe singing. Uh. Uh the jay z song of New
Speaker 1: York with Alicia Keys and my wife singing an Elvis song,
Speaker 1: I Can't Stop falling in Love with You. And my
Speaker 1: wife friend had had done the first commercial she worked
Speaker 1: for the Coca Cola company and did the first commercial
Speaker 1: that Kobe ever did when he was a seventeen eighteen
Speaker 1: year old youngster. Uh, first for sprite. Uh. She she
Speaker 1: did that commercial. So they had been very close for
Speaker 1: a long time as well. And Uh, and then I
Speaker 1: sang John Denver song believe it or not, country Roads
Speaker 1: Take Me Home, and we were singing in this Chinese uh,
Speaker 1: Chinese bar in Hong Kong. Country Roads anyway, So uh,
Speaker 1: West Virginia. So it made me even think of Jerry
Speaker 1: West when I was doing it, and and Kobe and
Speaker 1: I just kind of and and we were there and
Speaker 1: there were there were maybe twenty five or thirty people there,
Speaker 1: and his guard was totally down, and uh, and that's
Speaker 1: the Kobe that that I remember. That's the Kobe that
Speaker 1: that that you know, I was exposed to. And Uh,
Speaker 1: it's it's the one that that that we miss. And
Speaker 1: it's uh, the great, the great thing about Kobe, as
Speaker 1: tragic as this death is, he's left an imprint and
Speaker 1: indelible impression in our minds. And the outpouring um of
Speaker 1: of love and respect that was shown to him, uh
Speaker 1: and displayed um is you know, really in a category
Speaker 1: and almost unsurpassed in Los Angeles that I can remember
Speaker 1: um and across across the country and across the globe.
Speaker 1: And perhaps it's because of the way that he was
Speaker 1: lost with the others and and a beautiful girl, Gigi,
Speaker 1: and and perhaps it's because that's how they felt all
Speaker 1: this time and never were able to show him while
Speaker 1: he was alive. Right, that's why now that surprised me. No,
Speaker 1: but I mean that's why, you know, you're an advocate
Speaker 1: of giving people flowers, why they're here, and it's a
Speaker 1: it's an interesting point you to stun Jim. I think
Speaker 1: more than anything, they knew it. They just never you know,
Speaker 1: all the back talking in bullshit. They figured at one point, hey,
Speaker 1: I'll be able to pay my respects. But it just
Speaker 1: goes to show you never, don't you know that they
Speaker 1: had these amazing feelings about them, but they disguised them
Speaker 1: with hate in bullshit instead of just saying, hey, like
Speaker 1: we got a lot of love for you. But anyway, man,
Speaker 1: rest in peace to our brother Kobe and g G
Speaker 1: and obviously everyone else left lost on that flight two ten.
Speaker 1: Tell me what what what what it was like sitting
Speaker 1: across from Lebron James during the decision. From your point
Speaker 1: of view, it was the most unique moment I've had,
Speaker 1: probably in my career. It was the star of the
Speaker 1: NBA announcing to the league in the world his intentions.
Speaker 1: And I didn't know the answer to the question. I
Speaker 1: didn't want to know the answer to the question. And
Speaker 1: he was doing this, you know. It was like UH
Speaker 1: having a press conference with only one person being able
Speaker 1: to ask the questions, and that was me for this
Speaker 1: a show to give millions upon millions of dollars to
Speaker 1: the boys and Girls clubs that would help change and
Speaker 1: affect the lives for the better of thousands of kids.
Speaker 1: And UH be able to find out where where exactly
Speaker 1: Lebron was going to be playing, whether he would be
Speaker 1: staying or going elsewhere. So it was it was really unique. Um,
Speaker 1: nothing like that had ever occurred before, UH, And might
Speaker 1: I say, nothing like that probably will occur again. No. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: he took a lot of heat, I guess for the
Speaker 1: way it was done kind in all eyes on me situation,
Speaker 1: and whether you like the way he made it happen
Speaker 1: or not, what I took away from it was player empowerment.
Speaker 1: You know, he showed people for like superstars in particular,
Speaker 1: for the first time, like this is your career, Like,
Speaker 1: do what you want to do with your career now.
Speaker 1: Like you said, you may not agreed with the vehicle
Speaker 1: in which he did it, but at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, what I took away from it, and you've
Speaker 1: seen the ripple effects since as if you're a superstar,
Speaker 1: like you know, these teams aren't loyal at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, aren't loyal to you, and then the
Speaker 1: second you can't perform from them, they're gonna cut you
Speaker 1: trade your way view like take your career in your
Speaker 1: future and you're planning your own hands. And I always
Speaker 1: had a lot of respect and admiration for him when
Speaker 1: he did it that day, because ten years later you've
Speaker 1: seen a whole new landscape of the NBA because of
Speaker 1: the decision. That's exactly even I mean even today, even today,
Speaker 1: look James Harden holding out so you know, you hit
Speaker 1: it exactly exactly right, Matt and and Jack's exactly exactly right,
Speaker 1: and in the rear view mirror now ten years But
Speaker 1: it was the beginning of player empowerment. And I say
Speaker 1: that in talking to Goats in the book that the
Speaker 1: um this was the Kurt Flood moment for not only
Speaker 1: basketball players, but for players really in every sport. Of course,
Speaker 1: Kurt Flood all those years ago challenge the reserve clause
Speaker 1: and it was a very difficult road for him, but
Speaker 1: he paved the way for you guys. He paved the
Speaker 1: way for all athletes to be able to have the
Speaker 1: ability to be free. Okay, and he was doing it
Speaker 1: for baseball. Well, what Lebron James did here was not
Speaker 1: only the beginning of player empowerment in the and and
Speaker 1: the ability to bring super teams together. We had had
Speaker 1: super teams before, but it was the organizations who had
Speaker 1: put them together. It was the organizations who had manipulated it.
Speaker 1: It was not it was not because a certain player
Speaker 1: decided he wanted to go play with Dwyane Wade and
Speaker 1: Chris Bosh together that he did on his own volition.
Speaker 1: It was because the organizations were able to uh manipulate
Speaker 1: the system and bring folks together, or the draft worked
Speaker 1: out that David Robinson was hurt very badly one year
Speaker 1: and they were able to get the draft pick which
Speaker 1: turned into Tim Duncan. Well, that was more, you know,
Speaker 1: a quirk of fate than it was any planning. There
Speaker 1: was no planning in that it happened. It happened because
Speaker 1: one guy who was the best player or one of
Speaker 1: the best players, David Robinson hurt. And I understand that
Speaker 1: we have Kevin Garnett and what happened in Boston, I
Speaker 1: get all that, But what Lebron James did, it not
Speaker 1: only was player empowerment of deciding where you were going
Speaker 1: to go, how you were going to go, and when
Speaker 1: you were going to go. It also was really the
Speaker 1: advent and the birth of this social media of blossoming
Speaker 1: and boom okay. Now everybody that night when he took
Speaker 1: that hour from ESPN gave the money to charity. Is
Speaker 1: how athletes then decided they were going to communicate. Without
Speaker 1: the vehicle of the PR Department or without David Stern
Speaker 1: and the NBA having the ability to have the approval,
Speaker 1: they did it. He did it on his own, and
Speaker 1: he took all of the risk and he ultimately now
Speaker 1: got all of that reward, but he took. They made
Speaker 1: him into a villain, and the guy's never been a villain.
Speaker 1: What can you villainize about a guy who's won four championships?
Speaker 1: What can you villainize about a guy who's been to
Speaker 1: what ten NBA finals? What can you villainize about a
Speaker 1: guy who's built a school, who stands up for social
Speaker 1: just this, who gets people to go out and vote,
Speaker 1: who basically, uh, basically has done everything right, everything right
Speaker 1: in public. Okay, So now all of a sudden he
Speaker 1: had a television show to announce that he decided he
Speaker 1: wanted to go play basketball someplace else, and everybody and
Speaker 1: I understand, we could have been better. We could have
Speaker 1: done better. We could have been more sensitive to the
Speaker 1: fans in Cleveland who were deeply hurt by the best
Speaker 1: player in the league and a hometown hero from just
Speaker 1: outside inn Akron leaving their team. So we could have
Speaker 1: we could have handled that a little bit more sensitively,
Speaker 1: all of us um and and you know there there
Speaker 1: are certain aspects of the show obviously that had quirks
Speaker 1: and flaws. But look at social media now, and look
Speaker 1: at not only that, but the players Tribune and every
Speaker 1: and how and how you guys in all of sports
Speaker 1: now communicate with the public. You guys are now media
Speaker 1: media guys, your moguls, you have your own platforms. Okay,
Speaker 1: Well that really really started. That was the commencement of it. Okay.
Speaker 1: And I think that all athletes are a tremendous debt
Speaker 1: of gratitude to Lebron for what he had to go
Speaker 1: through to give them a better place. We now spend
Speaker 1: we now spend the majority of the year talking more
Speaker 1: about where is Kevin Garnett gonna play before he even
Speaker 1: wins the championship next year? Where will Kawaii Leonard end
Speaker 1: up before he's even completed the task, where he is,
Speaker 1: where is he going next year? And some of this,
Speaker 1: not all of it's for the good, but I would
Speaker 1: say a high percentile is very much for the good.
Speaker 1: And they owe all of that to Lebron. I agree,
Speaker 1: and I wish you know as as a former player
Speaker 1: and then moving into the media and media based too,
Speaker 1: but fans as well. I just had an appreciation and
Speaker 1: understanding for the moment of greatness, of not only Lebron's greatness,
Speaker 1: but of Kobe's greatness before he passed, of Steph's greatness
Speaker 1: of Janice's greatness. And I think too too too often
Speaker 1: it's it's cooler to hate or say something negative instead
Speaker 1: of showing appreciation. Just crazy to me, because at the
Speaker 1: end of the day and you touched on him with Kobe,
Speaker 1: a lot of people had admiration with Instead of showing admiration,
Speaker 1: they showed hate or despise or you know, sneak ship
Speaker 1: instead of just kind of realizing the moment and how
Speaker 1: special and lucky we are to be able to watch
Speaker 1: these guys do what they do at this kind of level.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure why all that goes on. It's it's
Speaker 1: it's it's a mystery to me. But Greenspan said something
Speaker 1: to me a long time ago. You guys know who
Speaker 1: Bud Greenspan was. He was a guy that wore the
Speaker 1: glasses on top of his head. He's before your time.
Speaker 1: He was a great olympian and documentarian, historian of the
Speaker 1: Olympic Games, and he did great films like Jesse Owens
Speaker 1: Returns to Berlin and The Wilma Rudolph Story and The
Speaker 1: Last African Runner, and he won all kinds of awards, peabodies,
Speaker 1: Emmy's Everything, and he said something to me when I
Speaker 1: was young and working for him. After I had done
Speaker 1: that Ali interview and I came out to Los Angeles
Speaker 1: to work on the eighty four Olympics as as one
Speaker 1: of the producers on his film Sixteen Days of Glory,
Speaker 1: and he said to me something that that just doesn't
Speaker 1: seem to be to perveye in our in our society,
Speaker 1: um because of the competition. And when he said it
Speaker 1: to me, I thought it was condescending and arrogant, but
Speaker 1: he said, I knew I was good when I could
Speaker 1: look at someone else's work and admire it. I'm just
Speaker 1: not sure why people just can't look at people's work
Speaker 1: and admire it. Maybe they don't feel they're good, Maybe
Speaker 1: they don't feel that they're up to snuff. Maybe they
Speaker 1: don't feel I think it always perfect in their lives,
Speaker 1: and maybe they just feel that by tearing down somebody
Speaker 1: else somehow that makes them look better, them feel better.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's more it's a sad circumstance. It's more
Speaker 1: of a reflection on the person who's doing it, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And I think that's obviously the
Speaker 1: era we live in now with social media, which is
Speaker 1: unfortunate and that's why I try to shield my kids
Speaker 1: because they're coming into the spotlight that you know, we
Speaker 1: just launched their podcast and we have a behind the
Speaker 1: scenes show. They're a you team, and it's weird that
Speaker 1: I have to have a conversation on what's coming for them,
Speaker 1: like people are gonna hate you for and they're not
Speaker 1: even great, they're just their kids. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: knowing where they're going, people are gonna hate you because
Speaker 1: you have something going for you, and you have to
Speaker 1: kind of understand that and not let that play with
Speaker 1: your mind because as a child, you know, we're fortunate
Speaker 1: enough to not really start listening to all the buzz
Speaker 1: until social media came around, but to grow up in
Speaker 1: it and to hear and constantly compared in in trash talk,
Speaker 1: in disrespect and hurtful things being said to a child.
Speaker 1: I think that's something you need to brace them for,
Speaker 1: because that's not something we grew up with. We didn't
Speaker 1: grow up with constant negativity at the palm of our hand.
Speaker 1: I would agree with that. I mean, you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's it's a whole different paradigm. I mean, we used
Speaker 1: to have letters to the editor and one letter used
Speaker 1: to represent how a thousand people would feel. But that
Speaker 1: letter didn't always get printed even if even if they
Speaker 1: had a negative feeling, or they would call into the
Speaker 1: station and they would inundate the switchboard. You know that
Speaker 1: happened to me with Pete Rose interview. You know all
Speaker 1: of the negative hate mail and and all of the
Speaker 1: tonts and threats that came into the voice mails, and
Speaker 1: and what they did to the switchboards across the country.
Speaker 1: But the negativity of today and and uh with young kids,
Speaker 1: and the bullying that goes on, and and and and
Speaker 1: the seemingly okaynus if that's a word of this being
Speaker 1: directed at people. UM. I think it was Mike Tyson
Speaker 1: who brilliantly said not too long ago, um, and I
Speaker 1: have it on my telephone. But because I love the quote,
Speaker 1: I haven't go ahead and tell it. I think people
Speaker 1: get too comfortable with disrespecting it. Was something along those lines.
Speaker 1: People have gotten way too comfortable with being able to
Speaker 1: say negative stuff about it without facing the consequence of
Speaker 1: being punched in the mouth, straight up, straight up. One thing,
Speaker 1: one thing, I was tired. I was tired as a
Speaker 1: young and it's some free game for all the youngsters
Speaker 1: that there. And it's something that I always lived by.
Speaker 1: Never demean somebody for your personal game. It's gonna always
Speaker 1: backfire on you. I agree with that. I agree with
Speaker 1: that absolutely twenty Basketball Hall of Fame class Kobe KG Duncan.
Speaker 1: How much do you epitomize excuse, how much do they
Speaker 1: epitomize goats? With just all the fame class? Well, Kobe
Speaker 1: leading the way, Um, it's it's it's it's a it's
Speaker 1: an unbelievably great class. Okay, and Tim Duncan is such
Speaker 1: an understated guy, but boy was he great. Uh, great
Speaker 1: to deal with as a professional, just a just a
Speaker 1: true professional, great to be around, obviously, a great teammate,
Speaker 1: a great champion, um and uh, just a pleasure Kobe.
Speaker 1: Obviously we've we've we've talked about him. And you know
Speaker 1: who who else had the dedication uh that that Kevin
Speaker 1: Kevin Garnett gave to the game of basketball and the
Speaker 1: pursuit of excellence that he, uh, that he put forth
Speaker 1: for all of those many years and to see that rewarded,
Speaker 1: you know, after what had gone on and all that
Speaker 1: he gave to Minnesota and falling short with the Timberwolves
Speaker 1: and then coming and being able to capture that championship
Speaker 1: with the Boston Celtics, and and to uh, you know,
Speaker 1: to see you know, just to have been able to
Speaker 1: see his story and to see what what had been achieved,
Speaker 1: and then you know the others who are going into
Speaker 1: that class as well. Um, it's uh, it's it's it's
Speaker 1: better sweet, it's it's it's sweet to see those guys
Speaker 1: get their day. It's it's better because of COVID and obviously,
Speaker 1: uh with without Kobe being there, I know Vanessa will
Speaker 1: be participating. Um, I'm honored that I've been given the
Speaker 1: Kirk Gaudy Award to be able to participate, which is
Speaker 1: tremendous thrill and honor for me to be able to
Speaker 1: get that award at the Hall of Fame with with
Speaker 1: Kobe and the others that Mike Breen also getting it
Speaker 1: in the in the Gang from H. Turner, Ernie Johnson
Speaker 1: and H Charles Barkley and and and their show going
Speaker 1: in with Kenny Smith and Shack. So it's a it's
Speaker 1: a it's it's a great class. Um and it's uh
Speaker 1: it I mean, are you gonna get any better than
Speaker 1: those three? Uh? And the others who will who will
Speaker 1: be with them um Uh, Tamika Catchings Uh look at
Speaker 1: everything that she was able to achieve, you um and
Speaker 1: and the other Hall of famers. So unfortunately it wasn't
Speaker 1: able to happen back in August, and it'll happen now
Speaker 1: in the second week I believe of May is when
Speaker 1: we'll all go to Springfield and Mohican Son and have
Speaker 1: that ceremony before the class of will go in uh
Speaker 1: later in the summer. Congratulations to you as well, all right, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I mean in case you guys missed it, I mean
Speaker 1: he's going. You're going in the Hall of Fame as well,
Speaker 1: your Hall of Fame obviously on the media side, but
Speaker 1: it just goes to show just your body of work
Speaker 1: has has been rewarded as it should be, and how
Speaker 1: much as someone who played the game and got a
Speaker 1: chance to interact with you, and now someone who's in
Speaker 1: the media space as well, how much we respect and
Speaker 1: look up to you and appreciate what you've done, not
Speaker 1: only for the game, but showing other media outlets how
Speaker 1: you should handle and deal and actually build friendships with athletes,
Speaker 1: because like I said, it's at the very beginning of you,
Speaker 1: it's very rare to have friendship, and you have been
Speaker 1: friendships and in great relationships with some of the greatest
Speaker 1: ever played any game. Well, thank you. And that's what's
Speaker 1: meant the most to me. It's the relationship. You know,
Speaker 1: I just heard you know, you obviously have children. My
Speaker 1: wife and I don't have children, So our friends are
Speaker 1: our family. And so when you are able to have
Speaker 1: these friendships and these relationships with guys, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: there's tremendous meaning in it. And that doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: you don't do your job. And that doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: I haven't asked all of these guys questions that needed
Speaker 1: to be asked. A lot of times they said, well,
Speaker 1: is that a conflict? Well, what's the conflict? I've asked
Speaker 1: everybody who's been in front of me what I thought
Speaker 1: should be asked for the people I work with and
Speaker 1: for and for the audience. And uh, somebody asked me
Speaker 1: about that at the Hall of Fame, the Boxing Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame a couple of years ago, uh, with Mike
Speaker 1: Tyson and I and I said, look, Mike Tyson just
Speaker 1: got hit in the head a hundred and fifty times
Speaker 1: by Evander Holyfield. Tom Brady just got sacked five times
Speaker 1: by Michael Strahan, Kobe Bryan. It's been elbowed, his feet
Speaker 1: are stepped on, He've been knocked to the ground eighteen times.
Speaker 1: Do you really think there's any question that I asked him, uh,
Speaker 1: that he's going to be offended by or somehow you
Speaker 1: think that will affect our relationship? If that was the case,
Speaker 1: how could they have ever competed in the game that
Speaker 1: just transpired. They couldn't do it. So of course you
Speaker 1: ask the questions that are necessary, but that doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that you can't have a relationship with somebody or that
Speaker 1: you can't be able to, you know, have empathy for
Speaker 1: them and compassion for them when they win, lose, or
Speaker 1: joy either way, any of those feelings. So the relationships
Speaker 1: I think, uh, as you guys will attest now that
Speaker 1: you're out of basketball, isn't that what you've taken with
Speaker 1: you now as you carry on in your life. Yep. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: that's a big reason for success. I was about to say,
Speaker 1: that's why we're here now is what we formed as players,
Speaker 1: and that's why everybody comes on your show. They don't
Speaker 1: come on your show because they can't stand you they
Speaker 1: come on your show because you have a relationship with
Speaker 1: your right I agreed, home stretched quick hitters. First thing
Speaker 1: to come to mind. We'll started off with the best
Speaker 1: fight you ever covered Castillo, Corrales and Hagler, hearns oh
Speaker 1: Still Coral showtime. That was unbelievable and the Ego Corrals
Speaker 1: rest his soul had the had the greatest response to
Speaker 1: a question that I've asked. I said, how would you
Speaker 1: describe this fight? He said, this fight was an honor
Speaker 1: big best NBA moment covered. Wow, Um well I was.
Speaker 1: I was personally thrilled for Julius Irving at the time
Speaker 1: to win that championship. And then obviously to see Michael
Speaker 1: Jordan's final shot as a bull uh that was great.
Speaker 1: And then to have been at that Dream Team practice
Speaker 1: uh in Monte Carlo to see the best game that
Speaker 1: nobody unfortunately ever got to see. Uh. So I would
Speaker 1: say that even though that wasn't an NBA moment, uh
Speaker 1: those three uh and and to have Chuck Daily win
Speaker 1: a championship as my best friend and um as I
Speaker 1: stated earlier, introduced me to my wife and and just
Speaker 1: it was was such a dear, dear close pal to
Speaker 1: see him win that championship with the Pistons. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: was that was that was special, particularly after the disappointment
Speaker 1: of losing in the Boston Garden and Isaiah throwing away
Speaker 1: the ball and then losing to pat Riley and the
Speaker 1: Lakers the year before in that game seven. So I
Speaker 1: would say those four things, two of them really personal
Speaker 1: and two of them just huge, huge events in the
Speaker 1: history of basketball. Favorite interview, Favorite interview, Well, I probably
Speaker 1: would say my favorite. I would say the first one
Speaker 1: with Ali and the ear biding with Tyson. We didn't
Speaker 1: get to get into them, and that would have been awesome.
Speaker 1: Five goat dinner guests, So around the table, a nice
Speaker 1: bottle of wine. Who are you? Who are five people
Speaker 1: you're having at your table? Human? Just human beings? Are works? No?
Speaker 1: He people? People? Yeah? Whoever? Nelson Mandela, who I did
Speaker 1: have a meal with. He was the most remarkable and
Speaker 1: special man I ever met, uh Winston Churchill because of
Speaker 1: obvious reasons. Um Muhammad Ali because he makes everything so
Speaker 1: much fun, and he would have just had everybody laughing,
Speaker 1: and you know, would have even with those folks, been
Speaker 1: probably the center of attention. Um My dad, because he
Speaker 1: was my hero, and I'm gonna come back to that
Speaker 1: last guest before we finished. I don't want to think
Speaker 1: about that for a second. Maybe maybe maybe Dr King
Speaker 1: because he was so prevalent. Maybe President Kennedy because that
Speaker 1: was that was so traumatic in my childhood. To see
Speaker 1: both of them assassinated would have been kind of cool.
Speaker 1: I think to be able to have a conversation with
Speaker 1: them and understand more about them, uh, and and learn
Speaker 1: from them. Oh obviously, you know you could get into
Speaker 1: religious figures. Uh. You know it would be interesting to
Speaker 1: have them as well. So um, yeah, I know, I
Speaker 1: know I'd have those four and I'll come back to
Speaker 1: the fifth. All right, who would you like to see
Speaker 1: on our show? And if you know them personally, we
Speaker 1: would love your help getting them. I'd like to see
Speaker 1: Barack Obama on your show. Oh whoa good? Yeah, you
Speaker 1: do you a go for a reason, man, you are
Speaker 1: because he loves basketball, and I think he would enjoy
Speaker 1: what you guys have to ask him. I don't know
Speaker 1: that I don't have any influence, unfortunately, on the former
Speaker 1: president other than I've interviewed them before a few times.
Speaker 1: But I think if you put out your failers and
Speaker 1: you guys know how to connect that he's a basketball
Speaker 1: aholic and go for halic absolutely, so I think that
Speaker 1: I think thank you. Uh, this has been a very
Speaker 1: special interview today. Man. I've enjoyed every second. I was
Speaker 1: hypotized by some of your stories. Um, we appreciate all.
Speaker 1: Like we said earlier, all you've done in this space
Speaker 1: and continued success. Best wishes for you and your wife
Speaker 1: and your mom as well recovering from cancer. So thank
Speaker 1: you for your time today. Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. And we're gonna have six guests. I'd
Speaker 1: bring along you Matt and you Mr Jackson, that would
Speaker 1: let's do it all right? Hey, well that's a wrap. Uh.
Speaker 1: That's another edition of All the Smoke. Thank you to
Speaker 1: our guests, the legendary Jim Gray going into the Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame in the good luck with that, you can
Speaker 1: catch us on Showtime Basketball YouTube in the I Heart
Speaker 1: platform Black Effects. We'll see you all next time. This
Speaker 1: is All a Smoke, a production of The Black Effect
Speaker 1: and our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime