1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: Effect and our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime. Welcome 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: back Man, season two of All the Smoke. We got 4 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: a real special guys. What's up with your Brodie with 5 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: the virtual head shake? I'm gonna tell you something that 6 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: I never told go back. I want to out the smoke. 7 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition to All the Smoke. Jack, 8 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 1: what's going on? Bro? My brother? What's going on? Just 9 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: chilling up? It's getting kind of cool out here in Atlanta, 10 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: but I'm warming up, Yes, as you should. Man, I'm 11 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: chilling out here. We just had the birthday with the 12 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: baby a little while ago, so he's too now, even 13 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: though he looks like he's fucking four. But we had 14 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: a good time with that. Hung with the family. But 15 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 1: the man, we got a special one today, a legend 16 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: in the Space edition. Yes, absolutely welcome Jim Gray to 17 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: the show. Jim, how you doing? Matt good to talk 18 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: to you and Stephen. Thanks for having me on. Yes, 19 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: I mean over forty years in this business. Uh, tremendous accolades, 20 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: more memorable conversations before we get started out when I 21 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: was doing research on you, h Muhammad Ali had an 22 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: amazing quote that kind of just like really kind of 23 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: contextualized like what today was about to be about, and 24 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: he saw it early. The first interview Jim ever did 25 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: was with me. From then, the first to my last, 26 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: and and many years later, we have a very special relationship. 27 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: I'm the greatest, He's the latest. Jim is the me 28 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: of his profession. Just don't tell Howard Cosell like, when 29 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 1: Muhammad Ali says that about you, how does that make 30 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: you feel? Well? It it feels as good here and 31 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: you read it as he did when he said it, 32 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 1: as I've read it a thousand, two thousand times. Uh. Uh. 33 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: He was a special man. He was obviously very special 34 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: in my life. The first interview that I ever did, guys, 35 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: and uh allowed me to be the last interview that 36 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: he ever did on television. So uh. To have been 37 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: able to travel with him, to learn all that wisdom, 38 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: to hear all of his stories, to be in his 39 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: company on so many, so many occasions, to have seen 40 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: him fight, uh, what he stood for outside of the ring, 41 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: the principles that he had, the man that he was, 42 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: the fun that he made it, He just made it 43 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: so much fun. He loved people. He loved all people 44 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: all the time, and he was great with kids. So 45 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: when I hear that, Matt and and when you say it, 46 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: I still I still literally do get chills because coming 47 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: from him, I mean I just can't get higher praise 48 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: or what could make you feel better than that from 49 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: a greater person. Absolutely, like it just kind of it 50 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,079 Speaker 1: kind of made me say like, oh wow, like that 51 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: that was that was that was very special. How is 52 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: current day treating you? How? How how different has it 53 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: been during this pandemic? Um from your normal day to 54 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: day because you're so active across the board in several 55 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: different sports. Well, just havn't traveled much. Uh, we stayed 56 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: to ourselves. You know, you missed the people tremendously. You 57 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: missed the people that you work with, your friends, your family. Unfortunately, 58 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: my mom has got stomach cancer, so I want to 59 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: be able to see her, so we've really isolated. Uh. 60 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 1: I live in California, she lives in Colorado. Um, she's 61 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 1: doing good after a number of chemo treatments. So uh, 62 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: it's just kind of altered everybody's life and and and 63 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: changed so much for everybody across the planet and and 64 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: here in our country. With the tremendous uh loss of life. Uh, 65 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: those who are isolated, who can't see people, the unemployment 66 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: situation and loss of jobs and economics fallout from it. 67 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: So you know, I guess we've just been impacted, like 68 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: like everybody else. You know, certain areas we're doing good 69 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: because we're home and we're safe, and certain areas, you know, 70 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: we're trying to help other folks who are struggling and 71 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: just trying to get through it and knowing that you know, 72 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: it's no longer it's no longer a twenty four hour 73 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: news cycle. It's a twenty four second shot clock. And 74 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: you guys can understand that better than anybody. Wow. Well over, 75 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: sending love and strength and prayer to your mom. Up. 76 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: She pulled through this. She's eight nine, and she's strong, 77 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: she's tough, so uh, she's doing She's doing the best 78 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: she can with the hand she felt. She tells me 79 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: all the time that coronavirus and the isolation is much 80 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: more debilitating than the stomach cancer. So I guess that's 81 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: good news, but it's also you know, I just just 82 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: want to make sure that we can get her through 83 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: this period and be able to spend some more time 84 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: with her after this vaccination hopefully gets rolled out and 85 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: people can can get back to whatever would be considered 86 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: a semi normal life. Absolutely, you just released a book 87 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 1: that I can't wait to read. This is past November 88 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: talking to goat Spotlight in conversations and time spend with 89 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,039 Speaker 1: some of the biggest athletes, from Kobe Bryant to Muhammad Ali, 90 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: Tom Brady, Lebron James's Decision, Mike Tyson, the Dream Team, 91 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: Pete Rose, and the list goes on. When you sit 92 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 1: back and kind of look and maybe you can't have 93 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: a full perspective yet because I couldn't get a full 94 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: perspective until I was done playing, But just kind of 95 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: looking back at your path to today and you going 96 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: as strong as ever, what do you think, like, what's 97 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: the first thing that comes to your mind? How did 98 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 1: all this happen? How could this have possibly happened? Because 99 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: you don't really reflect when you're doing it. I mean, 100 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: you both played fourteen seasons in the NBA and traveled 101 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: to a number of teams. Well, I was there chronicling 102 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:20,359 Speaker 1: a lot of that and just going from city to 103 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: city doing interview to interview, and then when you start 104 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: to look back and reflect on this. And I had 105 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: Greg Bishop from Sports Illustrated, who did a great job 106 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: organizing this and writing this book. He was terrific to 107 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: work with and he and he did. He's a great 108 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: writer and and a great friend. But there's tens of 109 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: thousands of interviews and events and so much has gone 110 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: on that while you're in the mix, you're you're not 111 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: really looking in the rear view mirror. And this caused 112 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: me to look in that rear view mirror. And I'm 113 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 1: sure you know, Matt when you saw a lot of 114 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: those highlights, or Stephen, when when you look back at 115 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: your careers and you see all those baskets that you made, 116 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: or the critical shots, or the big defensive plays, or 117 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: those huge winds that that that that you didn't think 118 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,239 Speaker 1: about when they happened, maybe you did for the moment 119 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: until the next game, and then you start taking a 120 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:07,919 Speaker 1: look at this in the collection, all of it, and 121 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 1: you say, wow, how did all this happen? And then 122 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 1: you start thinking I really did all that, and so um, 123 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: you know it's it's it's been a real blessing, and 124 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: it's been fun to look back, particularly when you know 125 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: I used to live at John Madden's house and became 126 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 1: very close to John Madden. And he's a genius, brilliant 127 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: man obviously with football and his coaching and then broadcasting 128 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: and all the Emmy's and analysis and then the Madden Game. 129 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: But Madden used to always say this to me, everything 130 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: in life is looking forward. When you're born, When are 131 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: you gonna crawl, when you're gonna talk? When are you 132 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: gonna walk? Where are you going to go to school, 133 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: What are you gonna be when you're gonna have confirmation? 134 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: When you're gonna graduate? Where are you going to college? 135 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: So I can keep going on and on and on 136 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: all the way through a lifetime. But you're always conditioned 137 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: to look forward, very rarely, at least in my life 138 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: if I have been thoughtful or conditioned to looking backwards. 139 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: So this gave me that opportunity and it was fun. 140 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: It was hard, but it was fun. Speaking speaking of 141 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: the book, men, you had a chance to previously speak 142 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: about your book. You was telling me about it, and 143 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: it's something that kind of involves me, and well, the 144 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: Malice in the Palace. Yes, sir, I was there that 145 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: night broadcasting that game on ESPN with Bill Walton and 146 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: my brain and I was standing right there when you 147 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: kind of jumped over me and went went in there 148 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: with Ron. Rememberable night night, probably much more memorable for 149 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: you and and all the repercussions and everything that has 150 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: gone on since. But you know, it was, it was. 151 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: It was interesting on on a number of levels, and uh, 152 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: you know, to be able to reflect on it, and uh, 153 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: you know, there's some interesting things I try and put 154 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: in the book at the Malice at the Palace that 155 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: you know, really hadn't been examined, and a couple of 156 00:07:55,120 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: the things, really is I blame personally, you know, the Pistons, uh, 157 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: not only their fans, but Ben Wallace much more so 158 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: than uh, you know, the public did, and seemingly, you know, 159 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: everybody did. Obviously, you can't go into stands and start 160 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: fighting with the very customers who are paying for your game. 161 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: So and what David Stern did was exactly right. But 162 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: the blame and the reason all this began really in 163 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:26,119 Speaker 1: my estimation, began with Ben Wallace and and got taken 164 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: to another level with the fans. Right. Yeah, the game 165 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: was over well over. I mean, you know, I believe 166 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: Bill Walton even said on the air that wasn't even 167 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: a hard foul. Leave it to leave it to Bill. 168 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 1: I love Bill, Run Run. So you've had a h obviously, 169 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,199 Speaker 1: as we spoke, a forty year career that stemmed over 170 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: several sports. Basketball, baseball, boxing, football, golf, um, you name it. 171 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: Do you have a favorite? Do you is there one 172 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,719 Speaker 1: you tend to or you have a love for all 173 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: of them? I really do have have a love for 174 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: all of them. And it's kind of hard when you're 175 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: sitting at a super Bowl to say, to sit there 176 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: and think, boy, wouldn't I much rather be at the 177 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: NBA Finals right now? Or if you're at the NBA 178 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 1: Finals watching Jordan make a shot or Lebron or Kobe, 179 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: You're really not sitting there thinking, boy, the opening ceremony 180 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:20,959 Speaker 1: of the Olympics would should be nice to be sitting at. 181 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: So you're kind of just, you know, really fortunate and 182 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: lucky to have been able to have the whole collection 183 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: of them all. I will say this, though, there's nothing 184 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: like a great prize fight. When when Tagler and Hearns, 185 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: or Tyson and holy Field, or Ali and Fraser, or 186 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:41,439 Speaker 1: Mayweather and Pacquiao have that ring walk, there is a 187 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,439 Speaker 1: there's an energy and in an intensity that is in 188 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: the air in that arena that doesn't really exist. Maybe 189 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: only one other things exists like that, and that's the 190 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: lighting of the torch at an Olympic opening ceremony. You 191 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: know who will light it? How will it happen? Will 192 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: it be a bow and arrow which was brilliant in Barcelona? 193 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: Will it be the greatest moment I ever saw with 194 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: Muhammad Ali? Uh you know, fighting Parkinson's and and and 195 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: there was the greatest to who lit the torch? So 196 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: perhaps that moment, But uh no, really, I don't think 197 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 1: I have a favorite sport. I mean, I love basketball, 198 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: I love the NFL, I love boxing, and golf has 199 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 1: been a lot of fun so in the Olympics have 200 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: been been just tremendous. So my favorite sport is the 201 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: one I think I'm at at the time. I'm at 202 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: that place there you go, like you said, lucky enough, 203 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: just you know, just to be there. But then I think, 204 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,199 Speaker 1: what is obviously allowed that you to have this success 205 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: you have and and and the longevity is trust. And 206 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: as players, it's hard to trust the media. It's very 207 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: hard to trust the media because there's it's normally angles 208 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: and I remember from the first time I met you, 209 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: and then, like I said, prepping on this and as 210 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: a part of your book, and what they said, and 211 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: a lot of the common theme was like they trust you. 212 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: You you're a straight shooter, You're honest, there's no motive. 213 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: Even if you have to ask the tough question, it's 214 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: still you know there there there's there's no unwrapping to do. 215 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: And that says a lot about you, because, like I said, 216 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: for athletes, it's almost like a criminal talking to police, 217 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like it's just like it's 218 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: it's hard sometimes because your words get twisted and it 219 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: becomes different than what you intended it to be. So 220 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: we really are almost really protective when it comes to 221 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: actually talking about you. So for these guys to be 222 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: as comfortable as they are to talk to you and 223 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: let their guard down, it really says a lot about 224 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 1: you as a person as well. Well, thank you, and 225 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: it's uh, I've been honored and really you know, gratified 226 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: by what these folks have had to say for the 227 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: book and and and about me. And you know, trust 228 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,199 Speaker 1: is a hard thing. How how is it that you 229 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 1: and and and Steven trust each other? Well? You do 230 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: you build a relationship, there's a camaraderie, there's a coexistence, 231 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: and you understand and you don't have to probably talk 232 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: to him every day to understand that he can be 233 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: trusted and vice versa. So true friendship and true relationship, guys, 234 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 1: it's reciprocal. I can't just go put my arm around 235 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: Kobe Bryant one day and and and say I'm going 236 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 1: to be your friend and you can trust me, like 237 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: you said, you know, there's there's a tremendous amount of 238 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: of distance and distrust that goes on. So it has 239 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: to be reciprocal. So if somebody's always giving, that doesn't 240 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: work because then there becomes a dependence, right and if 241 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: you're always giving to somebody, that dependence is going to 242 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: become debilitating. So the giver is going to be resentful 243 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: of always giving and the taker is going to become 244 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: a dependence. So that doesn't work. So it has to 245 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: go back and forth. So I've been fortunate with a 246 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: number of these guys, from Ali to Eric Dickerson to 247 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: Tom Brady currently to Kobe Bryant. You know, I was 248 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: I was really hearten. The first line in the book 249 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 1: was from Kobe and you know, it just says exactly 250 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: how it is I've tried to behave in my life. 251 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: If I had one word to describe he was talking 252 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 1: about me, Jim Gray, it would be that he's honest. Well, 253 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: my dad taught me that. He said, it doesn't cost 254 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: you anything to tell the truth and to be honest. 255 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 1: I've tried to live like that and we fortunately it's 256 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: worth I know, I know we're we're virgins compared to 257 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: your career being in this space, but I know the 258 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: conversations we've had in a year and a half, you know, 259 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 1: with just the guys that we play with, the people 260 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: we look up to, it means it means a lot 261 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: to us. You know, you talk about the Kobe uh, 262 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: the Kobe conversation, you talked about the d Way conversation. 263 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: A lot of conversations we have with guys they mean 264 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: a lot to us. So I could just I'm just 265 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: sitting here thinking about the people you had conversations with, 266 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: the meaningful conversations, and the names you've named. I mean, 267 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: I know that that that has to hold a big 268 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: part of your life. When you're sitting at home just 269 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: watch the TV or are having breakfast, just thinking about 270 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: those conversations because you talked to some of the best 271 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: in the game, the best to ever come around. It 272 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: does mean a lot and and it means a lot 273 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: internally and it's and it's nothing externally because you know 274 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: when you when when you've been doing this for a 275 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: long time and it's a it's a different day and age, 276 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: as you guys very well know. I mean, back when 277 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: I started this in the seventies, nobody even had a 278 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: beeper if you didn't answer your home telephone. That's why 279 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: I got to go interview Muhammad Ali. I was the 280 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: only one in the station. I was an eighteen year 281 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: old videotape editor, a sports intern. Okay, well, nobody answered 282 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: their home telephone. There was no beeper, there was no 283 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: cell phone. We were all walking around with computers in 284 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: our hand and documenting every moment. So that led to that, 285 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: but it also led to really being able to have 286 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: a relationship, being able to prove to somebody that you 287 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: were trustworthy, You were able to connect with people because, 288 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: for example, you know the players who are great today, 289 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: they walk in and they're sitting at a podium, and 290 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: they come in from behind the curtain and then they 291 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: exit from behind the curtain. Well that doesn't that doesn't 292 00:14:55,880 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: allow for there to be a transactional type of circumstance 293 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: ants where you're actually in front of somebody where you 294 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: can laugh, you can smile. They see your human They 295 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: understand that you might have children, they understand that your 296 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: car broke down, or you might have a different empathy 297 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: toward them towards missing a basket or throwing an interception, 298 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: because you can see it and feel it in their being, 299 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: in their presence, in their eyes, as opposed to now 300 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: you know it's at a distance and everything's at a distance, 301 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: or somebody can just text it out or tweet it 302 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: out or put it on Facebook. So, uh, that distance grows. 303 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: So when you have a relationship truly with somebody, I 304 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: mean you guys have been in locker rooms your whole life, 305 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: so you know what's public and you know what's private. Well, 306 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: that used to be how we covered teams. We covered 307 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: teams with what was your maine to what happened on 308 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: the field of play. So if you did something on 309 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: the field of play that was fair game because everybody 310 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: saw it and everybody knew it. Then if you did 311 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: something off the field which spilled onto the field. If 312 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: you did something that game into the public's eye that 313 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: affected your play, that was fair game. But all of 314 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: the rest of this wasn't being documented by the micro 315 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: second under a microscope, so you know, it didn't it 316 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: didn't come into the purview of what some guy was 317 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: doing at night, what some guy was doing with his 318 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: free time, where he was eating, what car he purchased, 319 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: how he might have treated somebody in a bad moment 320 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: of his life, not his best moment, but a bad moment, 321 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: but had nothing to do with the game. Now everything 322 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: is just fair game because everything's out there. So I 323 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: was very fortunate and feel really really good about the 324 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: time that I was able to come up in this 325 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: because it allowed for all of this to occur. I 326 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: don't know that it could now m hm No, I agree, 327 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: And I think that's part of the reason why, you know, 328 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: Jack and I think have have been able to be 329 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: successful in this space is because it's almost like we're 330 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: with the old rules, you know, I mean, we're not 331 00:16:55,800 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: looking for clickbait, negative clickbait, we're not looking to cause 332 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: division anywhere, like we genuinely want to be able to 333 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: humanize our guest slash friends and learn about them, you know, 334 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 1: I mean, I I just get just as interested in, 335 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: you know, hearing what they have to say that I 336 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: know our our our fans are going to be because 337 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: even though I know them, we're giving them to a 338 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: level where it's not in our normal you know, it's 339 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,679 Speaker 1: it's a normal no camera's tight feeling, but just to 340 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: sit down conversation where they can feel like they can 341 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: let their guard down. And I think that's what's most 342 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,439 Speaker 1: special for our viewers and our fans when we're allowed 343 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: to do that for him. But the one thing too, 344 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: I mean, it almost seems like to me now because 345 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: Jack and I are in the media space. Um, you know, 346 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: I don't blanket everyone, but to me, it seems like 347 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: it's about being first now and not necessarily right, you 348 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: know what I mean? And and when and when you're wrong, 349 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: when you're when they're when when when the media is 350 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: blasting you for something, um, they sometimes false it's headlines. 351 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: But then when when we find out that okay, well 352 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 1: you know they will someone reported that wrong. It's just 353 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: a tiny blip at the bottom of the newspaper or 354 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 1: just on the bottom line. What do you say to 355 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 1: people who kind of see it like that, and people 356 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 1: were involved. It feel like that. You know, you're exactly right, 357 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: Matt and Uh. I do a chapter on that in 358 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: Talking to Goats. It's called upon further upon further review, 359 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: which is a famous statement because everybody hears that all 360 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: weekend long when they watched the NFL games, you know, 361 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: when they go up to the instant replay. Well, unfortunately, 362 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: now in reporting, instant replay gets further and further and 363 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 1: further away, and the rush to be number one seems 364 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 1: to be, you know, the omnipresent, be pervasive, and seems 365 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,679 Speaker 1: to be so important. And I tackle a few of 366 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 1: the things in the book which were my personal experience 367 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: and and the pressures that occur. And one of them 368 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: was was Richard Jewel in the Olympic bombing? Uh? And 369 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: I was on NBC all night with that for the 370 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: Atlanta Olympics. And here was a man whose life basically 371 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 1: got destroyed. It became a movie last year by a 372 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 1: Clint Eastwood rerected a film about Richard Jewel and he 373 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: had passed away, but you know, the rush to judgment 374 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: that he was the Olympic bomber, UH just permeated and 375 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: took over. He ended up winning lawsuits against several news organizations, 376 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 1: but his life was destroyed because of that because he 377 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:20,239 Speaker 1: wasn't the bomber. It was Eric Rudolph who who had 378 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:22,719 Speaker 1: done that, but that destroyed his life. Then we had 379 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: the rush to judgment with the flate gate and espn 380 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 1: UH coming out with information that was all wrong. That 381 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: set the tone which led to a forty million dollar 382 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: investigation by Ted Wells about literally, uh, the amount of 383 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,640 Speaker 1: a fart being let out of a football somehow changing 384 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: the outcome of a game that was you know, they 385 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: could have played with pillows. The score was like forty 386 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: five or whatever it was ten. I mean it wasn't 387 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 1: It was ridiculous to score so and they spent all 388 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: this time and energy because they had the wrong numbers 389 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: that was given out. Uh and then that took on 390 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: a life of its own and we learned more what 391 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: what did Bill Belichick say, He's learned more about p 392 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: S I than any human beings should possibly know it 393 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 1: And led to you know, everybody knowing about you know, 394 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: gas laws. I mean, nobody even thought about this stuff. 395 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 1: It's a football game for crying out loud and nothing 396 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: to do with the outcome, but that rush to judgment, 397 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: you know, really negatively affected you know, Tom Brady and 398 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: his mother. Unfortunately Galen got cancer and is it related, 399 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: I don't know, but stressed causes all of this stuff 400 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: and just to be put through that and then people 401 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: think you're a cheater for life. Okay, and you know 402 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 1: so so those were two instances. But but exactly what 403 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: you're saying, And I think, Matt, people come on your 404 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,199 Speaker 1: show and I watch your show and you guys, you 405 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 1: guys are terrific at this. But you know why, it's 406 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 1: because of your ears. Your ears will never hurt you. 407 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: You guys are willing to listen, and you're willing to 408 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: let your guests have their say and talk about their stories. 409 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: And it's always about the other people's stories. It's about 410 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: the people who are being interviewed. It's their stories. It's 411 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: not the other way around. And you know, unfortunately, there 412 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: is a rush to judgment. We see it just across 413 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 1: the landscape, and and things have changed and so now 414 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: nobody knows exactly where to get their news from or 415 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: or what sources correct. So it's it's it's it's problematic. 416 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: So what was it like covering the NBA in the 417 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: nineteen nineties. It was a great time. I mean, we 418 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 1: had a lot of a lot of great people who 419 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: were playing the game then. I mean the eighties were 420 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of fund too. I mean I I 421 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: learned so much on the coattails of Dr J. Julius Irving, 422 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: and he opened up so many doors. And prior to him, 423 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: it was Marvin Webster and Paul Silas UH and and 424 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 1: and them opening those doors. And so the UH the 425 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 1: nineties gave way to that era of Michael Jordan's UH 426 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: and those six championships that he was able to win, 427 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: and the Pistons and the bad Boys, and Chuck Daily 428 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: was my best friend. He introduced me to my wife. 429 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: He was my partner when I first started broadcasting back 430 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia on a regional station called PRISM, and Chuck 431 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: had been fired by the Cavaliers. He was UH fired 432 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: by Ted Seption, who was the owner UH and came 433 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: back into the Sixers broadcast the pregames and halftimes with me. 434 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: So I was able to UH have a tremendous UH 435 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 1: insight because of Chunk. And so that was just an 436 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: It was a fascinating time. And obviously the nineties also 437 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: gave way towards the end, towards the rise of the 438 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 1: San Antonio Spurs, and and Tim Duncan uh and David 439 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 1: Robinson and uh, you know, uh the end of that era. 440 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: Uh magic and bird had bowed out. The Dream Team 441 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 1: was part of that which caused this tremendous explosion for 442 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: global basketball, for America exporting this game. Uh and and 443 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: now all of the countries that participate and all of 444 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: the players who come from these countries' is a all 445 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: because of Jordan's and the Dream Team. And and there 446 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: was nobody more fun uh to cover and to be 447 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 1: around than Charles Barkley during all of those years. He 448 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,719 Speaker 1: made everybody laugh. He kept it fun. He was obviously 449 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: a tremendous player, but it was just a great error. 450 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: To answer your question, Stephen, it was uh, you know, 451 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 1: every time you turned around, there was a good game, 452 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 1: and it was a fun game. And Karl Malone and 453 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: John Stockton, who could ever forget Jerry Sloan and Rudy 454 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: tom Jonovitch. Rudy tom Jonovitch in the Houston Rockets, Ruddy 455 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: tom Jonovitch treated so so many of us so well 456 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: for so long. I'm so happy that he's going into 457 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: the basketball Hall of Fame, the name Smith Hall of Fame. 458 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: And uh uh he was He was just I mean, 459 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: he was just wonderful. You could listen to his huddles, 460 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: you could come into his locker room. He would answer 461 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: any question. He trusted everybody. And I say this about 462 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: Tom Brady, and this applies to Rudy tom Jonovitch. Tom 463 00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: Brady trusts himself, so he can trust other people. So 464 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: if you make a mistake, you hang yourself. You're your 465 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: own news. If you get cut or get pushed out, 466 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: it's because you screwed it up. And that's how Rudy 467 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: tom Jonevitch was. Everything was fair game with him and 468 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: he would tell you anything. Decide how you want to 469 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 1: use it. Speaking of Tom Brady, what is it like 470 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 1: you guys do a radio show together? What was it 471 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,679 Speaker 1: like two goats, you and Tom Brady working together on 472 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: your guys show. Well, he's the accomplished coat, he's the 473 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: one that's throwing all the touchdown passes. But as he 474 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: would be quick to say, he doesn't like that Moniker 475 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 1: with him because A he's still playing and B He's 476 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 1: got a lot of great teammates, and it takes the 477 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: other ten who are on the field with him, and 478 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: then the other eleven when he's off the field. So 479 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 1: those twenty one other guys play a big, big part 480 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: in in any success that he would have. But to 481 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 1: do the radio show with him has been a total joy. Uh. 482 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: The fact that he is, in my opinion, the best 483 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: quarterback to ever play and the best player in the 484 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: history of the National Football League. That he makes himself 485 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: available every Monday night for more than a decade for 486 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: the pregame and halftime analyzes the games, answers all the 487 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: questions about football. If there's something off the field that's important, Uh, 488 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: he's willing to go in and answer those questions. So 489 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: UH to have that access and to have the guy 490 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,959 Speaker 1: he's he's become a friend and a good friend. And 491 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: I'm honored that he wrote the foreword in the book, 492 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: and uh that he has been willing to partner with 493 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 1: me for all of these years. And so you know 494 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 1: what's it like for you guys when you were able 495 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: to play with Kobe or against Kobe, or when you're 496 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 1: in the presence of Jordan's you know, it's special. You 497 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 1: know it's unique. You know that they're special, and you 498 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 1: know that they have done everything that it takes to 499 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 1: get to the absolute top step of the victory platform 500 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 1: and stay there. And he stayed there now for for 501 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 1: twenty years and still has a chance this year. Um 502 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: in a new in a new place, with a new environment. 503 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: So I've learned so much from him football wise, but 504 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: I've also learned a lot from him just as a 505 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: human being. And if you can't get along with Tom Brady, 506 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: and if you have a problem, and let me tell you, 507 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,400 Speaker 1: thirty cities have a problem with him. There's a whole 508 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: lot of hatred towards Tom Brady, not because of anything 509 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: that he has done other than beat the teams in 510 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: those city beat the teams in those cities. So if 511 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: you're outside of the New England area or outside of 512 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: Tampa Bay, you know everybody's railing against him. But if 513 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: you spend five minutes with him, or if you have 514 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,879 Speaker 1: a relationship with him, if you can't get along with him, 515 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: you better take a good long look at yourself. Um, 516 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 1: what you come from an error? Obviously starting when you 517 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: started your career, where great players, you know, stayed with 518 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: one franchise. What was your thought when Tom Brady left 519 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 1: New England for Tampa Bay. Well, you know Tom's father, 520 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: Tom Sr. He calls himself the original Tom Brady. Uh. 521 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: He said this about four or five years ago. He said, 522 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: it won't end well here. It never does. And he 523 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: was able to look into the future having known what 524 00:26:55,600 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: happened to Montana in San Francisco where where where they live. Uh, 525 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,880 Speaker 1: he knew what had happened, you know, with Joe Namath 526 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,439 Speaker 1: going obviously, uh, leaving and coming to the Rams from 527 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,239 Speaker 1: the Jets. He had seen it with Wayne Gretzky and 528 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 1: how he went from Edmonton where he was a legend, 529 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: to Los Angeles and then on to New York. And 530 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: so you know, the landscape is littered. Michael Jordan's ending 531 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,719 Speaker 1: up in a Washington Wizards uniform. Um. So you just 532 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: see what happens, and it's so rare when it's the 533 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: Kobe Bryant circumstance, and so sports rarely ends well. And 534 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:35,679 Speaker 1: you know, so I was saddened, um, because you know, 535 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: everybody wants a storybook ending, and you want your friends 536 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 1: to be happy, and I wanted Tom to be happy. 537 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 1: And then I figured out the more that I talked 538 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: to him, and the more that he left me inside 539 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: happiness was being able to leave at this time, not 540 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: with any bitterness, not with any rancor not with anything 541 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 1: but gratitude. I mean, so much is made out of this. 542 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 1: I mean, he came there as nobody and he left revered, 543 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: most revered football player in the National Football League. So 544 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: he's not angry with those folks. Might it have been 545 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: better from moment to moment, of course. Nobody spends any 546 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: time with anybody, let alone twenty years and has it 547 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,880 Speaker 1: perfect all the time. There's always bumps in the road. 548 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 1: But he's grateful, he's respectful, and he's happy with that 549 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: time that he spent there. But he had to go 550 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: just like it seems like the organization figured that they 551 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 1: had to let him go or move on, and so 552 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 1: he went to Tampa. That's where he picked. His family 553 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: is happy there. Uh, they have a chance to win 554 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: football games. It's not like playing in New England where 555 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: he threw the ball to the same people with the 556 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: same patterns and the same not the same people, but 557 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: the same system for twenty years and whatever that is. 558 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: How many baskets did you guys, shoot maybe a million. 559 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: So he's throwing a half a million passes to these guys, 560 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: and now he's going to a new place with a 561 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: new coach and a new organization, and you can't expect after, 562 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 1: you know, twelve weeks, fourteen weeks, sixteen weeks, whatever it 563 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: is to have the same connection in chemistry as he 564 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: had at the place where the other stuff had gone 565 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: on in six championships. But as a human being, he's 566 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: very very happy, and he still wants to compete, and 567 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: he still has all that left in him. So UH, 568 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: I think it was with a lot of mixed emotions 569 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: in the book, in the Talking to Goats book. Uh. 570 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 1: He called me before he made his announcement and we 571 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: were on face time, and he had written two beautiful letters, 572 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: one two the organization and his teammates and one to 573 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: the fans. And when he read the one to me, 574 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: to his teammates, UH, and to UH to the organization, 575 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: he started to cry. And it was just such a 576 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: beautiful moment because you could see just how much it 577 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: had meant to him, how difficult it was, but how 578 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: how relieved. Also after the tears had flown, he was 579 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: that that this was the right time and the and 580 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: and the right thing for him to do. I mean 581 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: they raised him. I mean similar to Kobe, you know, 582 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 1: him going there at well what early twenties or twenty 583 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: years old, They saw, you know, obviously his progression as 584 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: a man, not only as a player, but as a 585 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: man too. So I can only imagine all the emotion 586 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: attached to leaving. But like you said, and just think 587 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: it's well documented that it rarely. I hate to interrupt you, 588 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: but just think how close he was to pull in 589 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: the plug and asking Dr Buss get me out of here, 590 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: because Phil Jackson wasn't treating him right and he couldn't 591 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: get along with with the circumstance that was going on 592 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: in the organization. So it was just this close. And 593 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,959 Speaker 1: and Dr Buss, who was a brilliant guy, you know, 594 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: urged patients and you know, he was a great poker player, 595 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: and he was a great basketball owner and a brilliant guy, 596 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: a genius of a guy. He just said, hold on 597 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: here a second, and it and it all worked out, 598 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: and it ended up working out great for Kobe and 599 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: the Lakers, absolutely pivoting Uh you mentioned earlier, there's nothing 600 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: like the energy of a prize fight. What got you 601 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: into boxing? Muhammad Ali? I was an eighteen year old 602 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: in my edit booth. They were converting from film to videotape. 603 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 1: So all the film guys were in the union and 604 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: they took the buy out. They didn't want to learn 605 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: a new craft. So I was eighteen years old University 606 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: of Colorado and they hired me to be a videotape editor. 607 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: Hired a bunch of young men and women, and so 608 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: I was in my edit booth editing the Broncos with 609 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: Red Miller show. They were getting ready for the draft, 610 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: and I was there about seven o'clock in the morning, 611 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: and in came the assignment editor running in and she said, 612 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: you know something about sports. You were the sports intern 613 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: and you edited all the sports videotape. And I said, yeah, 614 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: what's going on? She said, Muhammad Ali's two and a 615 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: half hours early at the airport, go interview. I had 616 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: never done an interview before. It was the first interview 617 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: I was ever being asked to do. So I didn't 618 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: have any any clothes. I went into the weather man's 619 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: office tried to fit on his stuff, but it was 620 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: too small. He was a little little hitty bitty guy 621 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: named Stormy, and so I just ended up getting in 622 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: my car and running out there. But you gotta understand, 623 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: they couldn't find the news anchors, they couldn't find the 624 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: sports anchors, they couldn't find reporters because nobody picked up 625 00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: their home phone at that hour. They were either sleep 626 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: where they were at breakfast, or out for a jog 627 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: or in the shower, whatever they were doing. So I 628 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: went out there and I saw Ali, and we went 629 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: into this little room at Stapleton International Airport and I 630 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: asked the first question. He said, you're doing this interview, 631 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: and everybody in the entourage started to laugh. Well, that 632 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: laughter made me laugh because it was funny, and I 633 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: wasn't ready for this interview, and it relaxed me instead 634 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: of seeming like he was making fun of me. It 635 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: was funny what he said. By about the third or 636 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: fourth question, he said, you sound like the local Howard Cosell. 637 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: And let me tell you, guys, that was the best 638 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 1: Matt and Jackson Stephen, that was the best compliment I'd 639 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: ever had in my life, Okay, and that just propelled 640 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: me with confidence. So I came back to the to 641 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: the station. He gave me forty five minutes, and I 642 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: was going to edit my whole another man, though I'm 643 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: sure not to interview you, but you came back a 644 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 1: whole another man like I was just. I was just 645 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: on cloud nine. This was the most famous guy in 646 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: the world as warning icon. I have watched all of 647 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: his interviews my whole life with my dad, with Muhammad 648 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: Ali and Howard. So I went to edit myself out 649 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: because they were going to put me on the air. 650 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: I wasn't an on the air personality. I was an 651 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,959 Speaker 1: eighteen year old editor UH in college. So as I 652 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: was editing myself out UH for the evening news, the 653 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: head of the bureau walked in, the news director, man 654 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: named Roger Ogden, and he watched this tape with me 655 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: for an hour and a half. He watched the forty 656 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 1: five minute interview twice. At the end of it, he 657 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: looked up at me and he said, I'm putting you 658 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: and this video on the air. It's barely adequate. So 659 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: I tell everybody I've been barely adequate ever since, and 660 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: and here we are. But that led back then they 661 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: had this thing called it was an ABC station, and 662 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: ABC had this UH thing that was called d e 663 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: F A b C D e F D e F 664 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: for daily electronic feed, and they would feed out everything 665 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: from the local stations to each other, so all of 666 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 1: the ABC affiliates would get this. So they uploaded mine 667 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: on the daily electronic feed to all the other ABC stations. 668 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: Well almost all the stations took it down and put 669 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: it on their news because here was a young kid 670 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: interviewing Ali. Well that got back to Ali that it 671 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: was a big success the interview and how he had 672 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: treated me, and and so he started letting me come 673 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: to all of his fights from then on and interview 674 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,359 Speaker 1: him before the fight and after the fight. And so 675 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,760 Speaker 1: ABC took notice of that, and my boss took notice 676 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: of that, and then Bob Aram hired me because he 677 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: saw that Ali had opened the door. So if Ali 678 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: was good with me, then he started letting me interview 679 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: Haggler and Hearns and Durant and all of his big 680 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:41,320 Speaker 1: fighters that Ray Sugar, Ray Leonard, and so that opened 681 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 1: the door. And then Don King saw that, and then 682 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: so Don King and Bob Aram, who were big big rivals, 683 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: both hired me. And I was just a young kid 684 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,879 Speaker 1: and they would bring me in before their big close 685 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: circuit fights to do all of the interviews for that week. Well, 686 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 1: back then, you know, there wasn't they They didn't have 687 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 1: stuff like we have now. So this this was a 688 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: way that every station in the country could get material 689 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 1: without having to pay to put a reporter there. They'd 690 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 1: get all of these interviews. And so it just opened 691 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 1: all of the doors. And and uh so it's Mohammed 692 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 1: Ali to answer your question. It was a long answer. 693 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, m oh good it was a great answer. 694 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: I mean, before we're moving forward, I mean they kind 695 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:23,839 Speaker 1: of hear how it started. Can you explain to our 696 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: viewers where all those beautiful statues are behind? Well? Those 697 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 1: are all those are. This is a glove given to 698 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: me from Mohammed Ali. There's the great Nelson Mandela beautiful. 699 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,879 Speaker 1: Uh that's my wife and my dog friend. My my 700 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: dog name is Raith. My wife is friend. There's Mohammed 701 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 1: Ali and Fraser. And there's my big hero. There's my 702 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 1: big hero right there, my dad and he passed away. 703 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: And there's my mom. She's in Denver. So that's everything 704 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,280 Speaker 1: that you know. And there's the Colonel. There's two pictures 705 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,800 Speaker 1: of the colonel. I call him the Colonel Jack Nicholson, 706 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:06,799 Speaker 1: Colonel Nathan Jessop, He's got he's got a nickname for 707 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:14,919 Speaker 1: you too, doesn't Jack Nichols. Getting back to to where 708 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: we're at, um, and there's there you go. I saw 709 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: the Alie in the corner. I could see that. What 710 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: how different were Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson first as 711 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: fighters but then his people as well. Totally different on 712 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 1: all ends, um, Uh, totally different and almost everything that 713 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 1: they've done in their lives in the way that they've 714 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 1: approached it. Um, both great great fighters. Uh. Mike Tyson 715 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 1: was seek and destroy and was powerful and you know, 716 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 1: had a huge intimidation factor. And uh would go would 717 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: go into the ring with the you know, with just 718 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: that brutal towel over him and and those black shirt, 719 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: black laced, black laced shoes and and you know, kind 720 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 1: of stalk back and forth and walk around. And Ali 721 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 1: was much different in his style and an elegant robe 722 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 1: with beautiful pretty face and I'm so pretty and um 723 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: the greatest of all times, and you know, and and 724 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 1: and his his uh, his approach was different, his body 725 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,919 Speaker 1: language was different, his uh skill level was different. So uh, 726 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 1: and and Ali Tyson Tyson is Tyson is a brilliant man. Okay, 727 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: Mike Tyson is is really really intelligent. I mean he 728 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 1: has Arthur Ashe on this shoulder, and Days of Grace 729 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: and Chairman Mau on this shoulder, and he can recite 730 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 1: the tenets of the of the Red Book, and he 731 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,319 Speaker 1: can tell you about history and Napoleon and Shakespeare, and 732 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: he can go up and down all the lineage of boxing. 733 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 1: And he has tremendous wherewithal and and and is really 734 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 1: really incredible by and then Ali obviously, you know Ali 735 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: was with Shakespeare. Ali was a poet and he was 736 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: he was, he was fun, he was eloquent, he was boastful, 737 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 1: he was he was principled, he was he was all 738 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,240 Speaker 1: of those things that we look at and we and 739 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 1: and and we hold in such high admiration and aspire to. 740 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,399 Speaker 1: And Mike, uh, there's just so much to respect as well. 741 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,759 Speaker 1: You know, Mike Tyson at his worst moments, uh, Matt 742 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,839 Speaker 1: and Stephen, at his worst moments, he comes out and 743 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,319 Speaker 1: faces the music and he answers the questions, particularly with me, 744 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,800 Speaker 1: and I've always been grateful for that. He's not hiding 745 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,320 Speaker 1: behind the press release, He's not hiding behind some pr spin. 746 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: He's not saying, my lawyer will handle that. He's not saying. 747 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,920 Speaker 1: Let the Nevada State Athletic Commission decide what happens, and 748 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 1: then I'll release a statement. He comes out and he 749 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:53,319 Speaker 1: takes his own medicine. And Mike wrote me a letter 750 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 1: when he was in the Indiana and the Youth Penitentiary, 751 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,360 Speaker 1: in the correctional facility in prison, and it came to 752 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:05,760 Speaker 1: my house in Atlanta, and it had already been opened 753 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 1: because the warden or the prison officials, I guess they 754 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: do that so that they make sure that whatever's leaving 755 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: the prison is okay to be viewed or to be seen. 756 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 1: And so um, I got to the second page, and 757 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 1: the letter said, they'll let me out of prison tomorrow 758 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,720 Speaker 1: if I'll admit to this rape. But I'll never admit 759 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 1: Mr Gray to something that I did not do, so 760 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,280 Speaker 1: I'm going to stay here in prison. Next paragraph, However, 761 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 1: there are four or five other things that I've done 762 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 1: throughout the course of my life that are worse than 763 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,319 Speaker 1: what I'm accused of. Therefore, I feel I'm at the 764 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,719 Speaker 1: right place at this time. Wow. So he got out 765 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 1: of prison and he let me do the first interview 766 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,719 Speaker 1: with him when he got out of prison, and I said, Mike, 767 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,720 Speaker 1: is this a personal letter or can I make it public? 768 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 1: If you don't want me to say this, I won't, 769 00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,479 Speaker 1: but if you do, then then I will. And he said, 770 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,320 Speaker 1: you can ask whatever you want. It's not a problem. 771 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,000 Speaker 1: So I asked him, what's worse than what you were 772 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,040 Speaker 1: accused of? And he looked over at his lawyer, he 773 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 1: looked back at me, and he looked into the camera 774 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 1: and he said, you know, it's probably best not to 775 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,719 Speaker 1: answer this on national television because I don't know the 776 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 1: statue of limitations. However, what I wrote you is true. 777 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,879 Speaker 1: I was in the right place at the right time. 778 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:27,319 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Powerful. So they're they're much different people, much 779 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 1: different people, but they they're both both great in their 780 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 1: own right. But no, but nobody'll ever be like Ali. 781 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,839 Speaker 1: Ali was. That's why he is, That's why he's on top. 782 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,880 Speaker 1: He is the goat. He invented it. Uh and and 783 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 1: for what he did inside and out of the ring. Uh. 784 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,799 Speaker 1: In all aspects, Ali is by himself. Tyson started off 785 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,719 Speaker 1: his career like and just think about how he was 786 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 1: in his right mind, how how he was guided by 787 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 1: custom model but he had a good camp to right 788 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,319 Speaker 1: people with him. How much greater could Tyson have been? 789 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:03,759 Speaker 1: Probably probably could have been been much greater, But but 790 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,480 Speaker 1: he fell, He fell prey to all of the vices. 791 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 1: And he's not regretful of it. But he spent all 792 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:16,279 Speaker 1: that money, He enjoyed his life. He did all those 793 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,960 Speaker 1: things that he wanted to do with women and drugs, 794 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:23,000 Speaker 1: and to satisfy any personal need for that moment, any 795 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,360 Speaker 1: in any any need he had to have pleasure, he 796 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,880 Speaker 1: just went for it. And so he's not regretful of it, 797 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 1: because he would be the first to tell you I 798 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 1: I lived the way I wanted to live and had 799 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 1: a great life. And if that meant having tigers in 800 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,839 Speaker 1: his house or being bitten by the lion, you know, 801 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:42,160 Speaker 1: he was doing what he wanted to do. Or if 802 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,359 Speaker 1: it was in his quiet moments, which he still has 803 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,520 Speaker 1: now with with the homing pigeons and and and you 804 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,480 Speaker 1: know where he takes so much solace in that, but 805 00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:55,320 Speaker 1: he was he was diverted mentally by all of these distractions. 806 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,319 Speaker 1: And and you saw it play out in the ring 807 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:01,200 Speaker 1: because you can't you know, you can't play boxing. Okay, 808 00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,520 Speaker 1: it's a serious sport, and everybody who's coming at you 809 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,840 Speaker 1: is serious about it. So you know, he was playing 810 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: too much with with the very thing that brought him 811 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,880 Speaker 1: all of this attention, all of this money, all of 812 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 1: this glory, and so yeah, I'm sure he could have 813 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 1: been a lot greater, but I don't think that he 814 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 1: would tell you that he would change much of it. 815 00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 1: In fact, just did an interview with him, uh, for 816 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,560 Speaker 1: the book Talking to Goats. We had an hour special 817 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 1: and I asked him specifically about some of those things 818 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:34,480 Speaker 1: that that he doesn't have regret for, and he said 819 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,480 Speaker 1: he probably would bite that air all over again, uh 820 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,960 Speaker 1: if if that's what happened to him. So he's had 821 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:42,600 Speaker 1: a long time to think about a lot of this. 822 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,080 Speaker 1: And you know the great thing about Mike is, you 823 00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:49,279 Speaker 1: know the stuff that is in the rear view mirror. Uh, 824 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,880 Speaker 1: he he doesn't try and deny it. He says, you know, 825 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,239 Speaker 1: that was my glory and even if they were despicable 826 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,919 Speaker 1: and bad acts, you know, nobody was going to take 827 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,920 Speaker 1: my glory. So uh, you know, I've always respected that 828 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,160 Speaker 1: that he he wants to own what it is that 829 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,600 Speaker 1: he has done and try and be better with how 830 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:08,359 Speaker 1: he goes forward than he has been in the past. 831 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,919 Speaker 1: I'm a big I'm a big fan. I'm going to Tachi. Yeah, 832 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 1: I'm a huge mic fan. Being someone who had the 833 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,239 Speaker 1: opportunity to really get to know him outside of just 834 00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,160 Speaker 1: these interviews. Was it something that from from a distance 835 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,719 Speaker 1: you saw coming when you kind of felt like he 836 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,440 Speaker 1: fell from Grace's Was it the Buster Douglas fight or 837 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 1: was it before? Like it was, it was a culmination 838 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,880 Speaker 1: of things adding up. Did you see anything as first 839 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,120 Speaker 1: of all a friend, but second of all as okay, 840 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:40,400 Speaker 1: as your as your job in this space, like oh, Matt, 841 00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,719 Speaker 1: you could see this coming from a million miles And 842 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,040 Speaker 1: you didn't have to be no noster damas you know, 843 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,520 Speaker 1: you didn't even have to have a crystal ball you could. 844 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:49,960 Speaker 1: You knew that this was going to happen. You just 845 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,840 Speaker 1: you just knew that the way he lived his his 846 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,279 Speaker 1: his life with the wave of emotions and the roller 847 00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,960 Speaker 1: coaster that he lived on, and you know that juiced 848 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,680 Speaker 1: him up to that that used to make him great. 849 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,040 Speaker 1: And I've often thought with a lot of these great 850 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:09,280 Speaker 1: athletes who performed these incredible skills, if you start altering uh, 851 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,600 Speaker 1: that very being that they are and you try toning 852 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 1: him down in this area, or making him more polite 853 00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,279 Speaker 1: in this area, or if you just alter whatever it 854 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,880 Speaker 1: is of those guys. If you didn't tell Michael Phelps, 855 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: if you didn't tell Michael Phelps, hey, you know what, 856 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,800 Speaker 1: You've been staring at a black line almost your entire 857 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,000 Speaker 1: adult life to figure out how you could get an 858 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,239 Speaker 1: eyelash or a fingernail to that end board. First, if 859 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,160 Speaker 1: you started telling him to do something other than staring 860 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 1: at that black line for the countless hours, days, months, 861 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:43,880 Speaker 1: and years that he did, well, he wouldn't be the 862 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,480 Speaker 1: most decorated gold medalist in the history of the Olympics 863 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,799 Speaker 1: because you would have altered that. So if you start 864 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,919 Speaker 1: altering Mike what he was, he might have not had 865 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:58,320 Speaker 1: that ferocious uh response that he had that made him great, 866 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,239 Speaker 1: that made him all have the entire world want to 867 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,880 Speaker 1: watch him. So you could see it coming and you 868 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,800 Speaker 1: knew that it was going to crash, But that was 869 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:09,880 Speaker 1: all part of the beauty of it. You know, nobody, 870 00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,800 Speaker 1: nobody has attracted the call. Everybody's attracted to the hurricane. 871 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:15,440 Speaker 1: We all tune in to see the damage that the 872 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:19,279 Speaker 1: hurricane does. Nobody really looks outside when it's sunny and 873 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:25,440 Speaker 1: seventy eight. M h, you had an opportunity to obviously 874 00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:29,960 Speaker 1: get to know Mike and Muhammad ali Um in their primes. 875 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:31,560 Speaker 1: And I hate to put you on the spot because 876 00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,880 Speaker 1: obviously this is all speculation. Who do you feel like 877 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:38,200 Speaker 1: wouldn't want to fight when they're both in their prime? Ali? 878 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,520 Speaker 1: I think he proved that against Foreman, so I would 879 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:45,040 Speaker 1: I would say, Ali, And the good news is is uh, Mike. 880 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:46,600 Speaker 1: He says it right here on the back cover, so 881 00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:48,760 Speaker 1: he won't be mad. He said, I'm his most trusted friends, 882 00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:50,720 Speaker 1: so he would understand that. And I think he believed 883 00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:55,759 Speaker 1: that too, So don't come calling and screaming at me, Mike. 884 00:45:55,800 --> 00:46:01,120 Speaker 1: He wouldn't do that. But no, I believe Ali um 885 00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,680 Speaker 1: to see Mike back. What do you guys think? Let 886 00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:05,759 Speaker 1: me ask you that question. I'm gonna I know what 887 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,000 Speaker 1: you're what you show. You're asking the questions, But what 888 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,560 Speaker 1: do you guys think? I think? I think. I think 889 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,319 Speaker 1: Ali got a live it too much for him. I 890 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,040 Speaker 1: think the same kind of problems Landox gave Mike, I 891 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:20,239 Speaker 1: think Ali would have gave him times ten. Matt, what 892 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,200 Speaker 1: do you think? I agree? I agree? I agree I mean, 893 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,319 Speaker 1: my only thing is if it Mike could have got 894 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,120 Speaker 1: obviously inside, which was tough to do, but got him 895 00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:29,960 Speaker 1: on the ropes inside and hit him with an uppercut. 896 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:31,960 Speaker 1: That's gonna put anybody to sleep. So that would be 897 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,960 Speaker 1: my only you know thinking. But uh, you know, as 898 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,439 Speaker 1: far as just straight boxing to me, I've never said. 899 00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,320 Speaker 1: Obviously I wasn't around in all least primes, so everything 900 00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:42,960 Speaker 1: I had to go back and watch. But from what 901 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,520 Speaker 1: I saw, I don't. I don't think anyone when Ali 902 00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,080 Speaker 1: was on his game, game, he showed didn't no one 903 00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:53,640 Speaker 1: could beat him. What do you mate? I just turned 904 00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:59,799 Speaker 1: forty in March l a days wait quick, yeah, man, didn't. Yeah, 905 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,319 Speaker 1: I just I'm twenty years from you know, it's it's 906 00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:05,960 Speaker 1: it goes by fast. Does just say that it goes 907 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,280 Speaker 1: by fast? I had my twenty year high twenty twenty 908 00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,680 Speaker 1: year high school reunion, and I'm coming up man in 909 00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,800 Speaker 1: in in two years, I'll be my twenty year college 910 00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,600 Speaker 1: just like, holy holy, holy holy, it's going by two 911 00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,080 Speaker 1: first even, how long are you removed from there party? 912 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:25,640 Speaker 1: I'm forty two years old. Wow, forty two years old? Yeah, yeah, 913 00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:27,480 Speaker 1: I've been I've been out the league. What's going on 914 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:31,760 Speaker 1: five years now? I'm three removed. Yeah, it goes by fast. 915 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:36,359 Speaker 1: It goes by fast. Longevity is key um thoughts on Mike. 916 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,680 Speaker 1: One last thing on Mike. Thoughts on Mike getting back 917 00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,160 Speaker 1: in the ring. We just saw an exhibition against Roy Jones. 918 00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,160 Speaker 1: I think Mike held back a little bit on some shots. 919 00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,399 Speaker 1: He probably could have really hurt Roy. But to see 920 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,720 Speaker 1: after everything he's been through, good, bad and in between, 921 00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:50,719 Speaker 1: to see Mike back out there, because it looked like 922 00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:54,319 Speaker 1: leading up he was really enjoying himself training and and 923 00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:56,279 Speaker 1: and just kind of getting because you heard him talk 924 00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:58,600 Speaker 1: before that he missed that. So to see him back 925 00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:00,640 Speaker 1: out there, what did that mean to you? I thought 926 00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:02,919 Speaker 1: it was a terrific night. It was fun. He lost 927 00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,000 Speaker 1: a hundred pounds. He had rededicated himself. He hadn't found 928 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,239 Speaker 1: that in him since you know, he had quit on showtime. 929 00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,759 Speaker 1: We did that fight against McBride where he just said, 930 00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:14,759 Speaker 1: I can't be this person anymore. I don't have it 931 00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:16,719 Speaker 1: in me. And then to be able to see what 932 00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:18,680 Speaker 1: he did a couple of weeks ago against the Roy 933 00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:20,800 Speaker 1: Jones Jr. And he didn't try to hurt him. He 934 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,640 Speaker 1: understood that it was an exhibition. And you know, as 935 00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,640 Speaker 1: Snooped so eloquently said on the air that night, put 936 00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:29,840 Speaker 1: some sauce on those ribs, please. Uh. You know, he 937 00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,280 Speaker 1: had him pretty good to the mid section on several occasions, 938 00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,080 Speaker 1: but he didn't he didn't want to hit him in 939 00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,600 Speaker 1: the face. And Roy did very well. I mean, Roy's 940 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:38,440 Speaker 1: fifty one years old and he stood in there and 941 00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:40,799 Speaker 1: you can tell he was exhausted, but he made it 942 00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:43,719 Speaker 1: through and he acquitted himself well. So you know, I 943 00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:45,960 Speaker 1: was happy for Mike. You know that at least he 944 00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,960 Speaker 1: came out there and was able to accomplish what he 945 00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,279 Speaker 1: set out to do. And he gave the fans and 946 00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,399 Speaker 1: he gave a whole a whole new generation at least 947 00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,000 Speaker 1: the ability to see him in good shape and to 948 00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,400 Speaker 1: go into the ring. And I'm sure it'll set up 949 00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,279 Speaker 1: for him to be able to do this again. Who 950 00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:03,239 Speaker 1: that will be, I'm not sure where that will be 951 00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,759 Speaker 1: or or how that will go. But it was a 952 00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:09,719 Speaker 1: tremendous financial success, it was a tremendous physical success, and 953 00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,720 Speaker 1: they pulled it off in these COVID times and uh, 954 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:15,680 Speaker 1: everybody who tuned in seemed to uh seem to be happy. 955 00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:17,400 Speaker 1: There don't seem to be a whole lot of complaints. 956 00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:19,279 Speaker 1: And we get a lot of complaints in boxing. We 957 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:20,920 Speaker 1: get a lot of people who don't like what they 958 00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,560 Speaker 1: see and and I haven't. I haven't heard that, and 959 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,399 Speaker 1: as well they shouldn't. It was it was. I thought 960 00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:30,719 Speaker 1: it was a uh an excellent exhibition and that uh, 961 00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:32,880 Speaker 1: Mike look terrific. And you know they're going to score 962 00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,600 Speaker 1: this thing a draw before they start, because the Athletic 963 00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:39,239 Speaker 1: Commission in California doesn't allow you to score an exhibition. 964 00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,399 Speaker 1: So the three celebrity judges who they had are doing 965 00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:44,319 Speaker 1: it off a television and I'm sure it was all 966 00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,080 Speaker 1: you know, set in so far as they weren't going 967 00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:49,200 Speaker 1: to announce a winner, But anybody who watched the fight, 968 00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:53,800 Speaker 1: uh could clearly tell that Mike dominated seeing that exhibition. UM. 969 00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:57,760 Speaker 1: Just hearing that Floyd announced that he's going to be fighting. UM. 970 00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:01,200 Speaker 1: I think Logan Paul as someone who's been in the 971 00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:04,520 Speaker 1: game from Ali to Tyson to to seeing Floyd's greatness 972 00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:06,840 Speaker 1: throughout his career, how do you feel when you see 973 00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,920 Speaker 1: arguably one of the greatest fighters of all time fighting 974 00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:15,360 Speaker 1: a YouTube star. I'm never one that says somebody shouldn't 975 00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,120 Speaker 1: do what they want to do because only they know 976 00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,000 Speaker 1: how they feel. So only Floyd knows how he feels, 977 00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,040 Speaker 1: and this is what he wants to do, and he 978 00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:25,760 Speaker 1: feels good about it. So whether or not the public 979 00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:27,640 Speaker 1: will buy into this or want to see it, that's 980 00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,000 Speaker 1: a whole different equation. But I think that you know, 981 00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:32,400 Speaker 1: we live in We live in a place where you 982 00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:34,520 Speaker 1: are free to go about and do what you want 983 00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:36,520 Speaker 1: to do. So this is what he is determined he 984 00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,200 Speaker 1: wants to do. He feels that he'll make money doing this. 985 00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,120 Speaker 1: I guess it feels that I have some fun. Uh. 986 00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:44,719 Speaker 1: Mr Paul is one of these guys who obviously has 987 00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:48,279 Speaker 1: a tremendous following on social media. Is brother Jake just 988 00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,600 Speaker 1: knocked out Nate Robinson the other night? Uh, and he 989 00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,880 Speaker 1: has committed himself. I don't know what logan is in 990 00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:58,239 Speaker 1: terms of boxing, but the younger brother or brother Jake, 991 00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,720 Speaker 1: has decided that that's the profession that he wants to pursue. 992 00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:04,640 Speaker 1: So look, Floyd's forty five years old. Um, he hasn't 993 00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:09,280 Speaker 1: really fought. Uh. You know the Connor McGregor was uh 994 00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,719 Speaker 1: an exhibition really as well? It was. It was a 995 00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,239 Speaker 1: huge payday and it was a fight that goes on 996 00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,200 Speaker 1: his record, and then he ended up with Berto after that. 997 00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,920 Speaker 1: But I guess, you know, Floyd wants to stay active 998 00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:25,239 Speaker 1: in a minimal way and do this, And who am 999 00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:27,319 Speaker 1: I to sit here in judgment and say, no, don't 1000 00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,120 Speaker 1: do that. This isn't good, It's not good for you, 1001 00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:31,280 Speaker 1: It's not good. No, I don't believe that. I believe 1002 00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:32,960 Speaker 1: it's fine. If this is what he wants to do. 1003 00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,359 Speaker 1: Let the public decide. Let the public decide if they 1004 00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:38,839 Speaker 1: want to see this, Let boxing fans decide if they 1005 00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:42,200 Speaker 1: want to see it, and sure, go ahead. What do 1006 00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:45,759 Speaker 1: you guys think? I think it's great. I mean I 1007 00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:47,520 Speaker 1: like it. Like you said, you can say what you want, 1008 00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:48,719 Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, people are going 1009 00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,040 Speaker 1: to tune in. And that's why I think overall, stuff 1010 00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:53,239 Speaker 1: like this happens because people do want to see this, 1011 00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:57,319 Speaker 1: and I think too often UH media or people with 1012 00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,880 Speaker 1: the platform UH will critique sit. It's like Dana White 1013 00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:02,920 Speaker 1: came out and kind of took a stab at what 1014 00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:05,800 Speaker 1: the state of boxing he is with us. But I 1015 00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,640 Speaker 1: kind of feel like if everyone just listen to what 1016 00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:11,839 Speaker 1: you said and thought how you thought the whole world 1017 00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,000 Speaker 1: would be different first and foremost, but you know, stuff 1018 00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:16,960 Speaker 1: around sports would be different. Like you, to be an athlete, 1019 00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:19,879 Speaker 1: we have, you know, a small window to be as 1020 00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:21,839 Speaker 1: great as we can, accumulate as much money as we can, 1021 00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:23,640 Speaker 1: and when it's over, it's over, you know what I mean. 1022 00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:25,319 Speaker 1: So for Floyd to be as great as he was, 1023 00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,160 Speaker 1: no blemishes on his record, like you said, forty five, 1024 00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:30,200 Speaker 1: it's still gonna be a cool little pay day and 1025 00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:32,319 Speaker 1: like you said, minimal work because we all know what's 1026 00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,200 Speaker 1: gonna happen. I see nothing wrong with it. He's Floyd Mayweather. 1027 00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:37,120 Speaker 1: He can do what he wants as long as it 1028 00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,239 Speaker 1: conforms to with what's in the law. Why not, And 1029 00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,200 Speaker 1: he's been a fighter his whole professional life. Wants to 1030 00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:46,720 Speaker 1: have an exhibition great, I mean, the people have their choice. 1031 00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:48,880 Speaker 1: If you want to watch it, you're gonna watch it. 1032 00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,080 Speaker 1: And if you don't, then you'll move on to something else. 1033 00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:53,680 Speaker 1: And guess what, it will attract a lot of attention. 1034 00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,960 Speaker 1: He's Floyd Mayweather, he's a perfect fifty. And oh and 1035 00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:59,560 Speaker 1: apparently this other young man has a huge following of 1036 00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:02,880 Speaker 1: young Pole and uh so that's going to attract attention 1037 00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:04,799 Speaker 1: and we'll see how it collides. But don't want to 1038 00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:06,960 Speaker 1: see Logan getting knocked out. His brother just t k 1039 00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:10,680 Speaker 1: o Nate not naked. He knock Nate under the ring. 1040 00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:14,040 Speaker 1: They're probably still trying to wake Nate up. Ever, the 1041 00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:17,400 Speaker 1: world want to see Mayweather get knocked Logan out just 1042 00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:19,279 Speaker 1: for advantage, and that's just what it is. So people 1043 00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:20,680 Speaker 1: want to see it because of that. Let's just keep 1044 00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:23,960 Speaker 1: it already. It'll be interesting me if if if Floyd 1045 00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:26,120 Speaker 1: takes the same path that Mike did and and and 1046 00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:29,640 Speaker 1: doesn't want to hurt the young man, because because Floyd 1047 00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:32,400 Speaker 1: Mayweather is one of the greatest fighters in the history 1048 00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,600 Speaker 1: of boxing, and he didn't lose all of his skills 1049 00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:37,360 Speaker 1: and all of his talent because he hasn't fought for 1050 00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:40,040 Speaker 1: a couple of years now, he will have all of that. 1051 00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:42,000 Speaker 1: So I'm sure that he could do great damage to 1052 00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:44,920 Speaker 1: this guy. The question is is whether he will have 1053 00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:47,719 Speaker 1: mercy and and and let him be, or whether or 1054 00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:49,920 Speaker 1: not we will see it unleashed Jack. What do you 1055 00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:54,040 Speaker 1: think should he have mercy or unleashed that ship unleashed man? 1056 00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:58,160 Speaker 1: I like because because because just think about it like this, though, 1057 00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:02,680 Speaker 1: if he lands good punch on Floyd where days a 1058 00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:04,719 Speaker 1: main thing. He's going to live up that for the 1059 00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:06,799 Speaker 1: rest of his life. So Floyd going there and knock 1060 00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,759 Speaker 1: him clean out. One of the first fights I got 1061 00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,839 Speaker 1: to go to was al Lee against Alzado. That's why 1062 00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:14,800 Speaker 1: he came to Denver for that interview. He was gonna 1063 00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,120 Speaker 1: fight Spins and then he was gonna fight Lyle Alsado, 1064 00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:20,160 Speaker 1: a Denver bronco who went on to win a championship 1065 00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:23,520 Speaker 1: with the with the Raiders. But they had that at 1066 00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:28,399 Speaker 1: Mile High Stadium and Ali clowned and played for als Ado. 1067 00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:30,359 Speaker 1: He wanted to land a punch and he wanted to 1068 00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,359 Speaker 1: actually hit the champ and so it was serious for him. 1069 00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,520 Speaker 1: And you know, he didn't obviously win the fight, but 1070 00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:38,399 Speaker 1: it was it was something that was more than an 1071 00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,879 Speaker 1: exhibition to the football player, and obviously nothing but an 1072 00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,319 Speaker 1: exhibition to the boxer. So it'll be interesting to see 1073 00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:48,600 Speaker 1: what type of approach Floyd takes on that. Okay, goat, 1074 00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:52,160 Speaker 1: what was it like to cover two other goats, Shack 1075 00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,640 Speaker 1: and Kobe. Well, it was fun. I mean Shack made 1076 00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:58,960 Speaker 1: things so much fun. I mean, Shack was a brilliant 1077 00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:03,120 Speaker 1: basketball player who who you know, obviously was a big, 1078 00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,919 Speaker 1: big guy. And and like Will Chamberlain said, nobody loves 1079 00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,200 Speaker 1: a giant. So everybody used to beat up on Shack 1080 00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:09,440 Speaker 1: and he used to have to take it from the 1081 00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:11,799 Speaker 1: referees and take it from opponents and so forth. And 1082 00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:14,919 Speaker 1: but Chack's a big, lovable guy, still is to this day. 1083 00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:17,560 Speaker 1: And but there was a there was a personality conflict 1084 00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:20,759 Speaker 1: with Kobe because you know, they each it felt that 1085 00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,680 Speaker 1: you know, it was their team and and and and 1086 00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,640 Speaker 1: obviously Phil Jackson was involved in this, and you know, 1087 00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:30,080 Speaker 1: Shack was a much more sensitive guy. So Kobe got 1088 00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:32,480 Speaker 1: beaten up upon, and it took a toll on Kobe, 1089 00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:36,440 Speaker 1: and uh it set him back. You know, it didn't 1090 00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:42,000 Speaker 1: it didn't necessarily uh shake him, uh in terms of 1091 00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:45,200 Speaker 1: of of his ability to move forward and continue to 1092 00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:48,480 Speaker 1: u achieve greatness and want to be the best basketball 1093 00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:51,399 Speaker 1: player of all time. He was myopic in that view. 1094 00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:56,040 Speaker 1: But it wore him down. Uh And so, um, you know, 1095 00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:01,000 Speaker 1: they didn't have an appreciation. Chack didn't have necessarily an 1096 00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:05,120 Speaker 1: appreciation of Kobe until it was too late, until him 1097 00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:08,760 Speaker 1: and Phil had had beaten him up so bad that 1098 00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:12,240 Speaker 1: that that Kobe just wanted out and wanted away, and 1099 00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:14,640 Speaker 1: and because he wanted away, and they figured that it it 1100 00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:18,080 Speaker 1: was better for for Shack to move on. Um. And 1101 00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:20,200 Speaker 1: you know when he went through that diet tribe with 1102 00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:23,040 Speaker 1: me in the interview that we did, uh Kobe had 1103 00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:26,080 Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of venom. And the one thing I 1104 00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:29,760 Speaker 1: think that you know, having been his teammate, uh Matt 1105 00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:32,480 Speaker 1: and then you know, having that famous thing where and 1106 00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:36,000 Speaker 1: you saw where he didn't he didn't flinch when you 1107 00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:39,440 Speaker 1: were with the Orlando Magic. One thing about Kobe, Kobe 1108 00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,640 Speaker 1: was myopic, and he just wanted to win. And if 1109 00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:44,759 Speaker 1: you were in his way as an opponent, he got 1110 00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:46,000 Speaker 1: you out of the way. And if you were in 1111 00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:48,239 Speaker 1: his way as a teammate, guess what, he treated you 1112 00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:50,600 Speaker 1: the same way. He got you out of the way. 1113 00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:52,799 Speaker 1: And he did the same thing with Phil. He had 1114 00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:57,080 Speaker 1: total disdain for a long time with Phil Jackson. He 1115 00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:59,560 Speaker 1: despised him, and even Phil wrote in his book that 1116 00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,360 Speaker 1: he could feel that hatred coming from Kobe. Now they 1117 00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:05,320 Speaker 1: ended up fine, and they ended up winning more championships 1118 00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:08,960 Speaker 1: and and they patched it up later in life as 1119 00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:14,840 Speaker 1: they moved on. But Kobe, Kobe was certainly distracted and 1120 00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:19,840 Speaker 1: distraught with that treatment. And so when he when he 1121 00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:23,400 Speaker 1: gave that interview, I had to tone him down. I said, Kobe, 1122 00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:24,960 Speaker 1: we can't you know. And it's and it's in the 1123 00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,280 Speaker 1: talking to go to his book, Uh, I said, Kobe, 1124 00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:30,880 Speaker 1: if if I put this on the air, Um, there 1125 00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,840 Speaker 1: was one statement in particular, I said, first of all, 1126 00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:37,320 Speaker 1: you'll never ever have any kind of a relationship, let 1127 00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:40,640 Speaker 1: alone win championships with this guy. Uh and and and 1128 00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:43,800 Speaker 1: this organization. But you'll also have a hard time just 1129 00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:46,080 Speaker 1: going to work every day. I said, We'll let the 1130 00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:48,280 Speaker 1: rest of this go because they're your words, not mine. 1131 00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:51,160 Speaker 1: And but the one, the one, the one statement that 1132 00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:53,960 Speaker 1: we took out that I said, Kobe, I'm editing this out. 1133 00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:57,080 Speaker 1: I said, not only for you, but for me. I 1134 00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:01,400 Speaker 1: I have to have a relationship with Shack. He's said, uh. 1135 00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:06,880 Speaker 1: He said that Quille O'Neill he was referring to. He said, 1136 00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:09,600 Speaker 1: the guy selling donuts at the seven eleven had more 1137 00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:14,160 Speaker 1: pride in his job than Shack did. And this was 1138 00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:16,880 Speaker 1: the same interview that he had gone public calling him 1139 00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:20,200 Speaker 1: fat and lazy, and that he had surgery on the 1140 00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:23,479 Speaker 1: organization's time and he would do it on company time. 1141 00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:26,560 Speaker 1: Instead of his time while he wasn't ready for the season, 1142 00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:29,080 Speaker 1: and so you know, it was volatile enough without that. 1143 00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:33,280 Speaker 1: And for the next two or three years, Uh, Shack. 1144 00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:35,680 Speaker 1: I called Shack before this interview came out to give 1145 00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:38,040 Speaker 1: them a heads up because I really like Shack and 1146 00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:40,960 Speaker 1: I enjoyed covering him and we had a terrific relationship. 1147 00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:43,160 Speaker 1: And he didn't want to respond, And then it came 1148 00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:45,640 Speaker 1: out and he threatened to kill Kobe the next day. 1149 00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:48,439 Speaker 1: In fact, they put in a metal detector over there 1150 00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:51,320 Speaker 1: and Kobe jumped up and said, let's fight, okay. And 1151 00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:53,640 Speaker 1: all of this has been confirmed by Shack as recently 1152 00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:56,480 Speaker 1: as the All Star Game this February in Chicago, and 1153 00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:59,480 Speaker 1: by John Black, the PR director of the Lakers former 1154 00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:01,720 Speaker 1: PR direct here. But anyway, I called him to let 1155 00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,200 Speaker 1: him know this interview was coming out, guys, and he 1156 00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:06,080 Speaker 1: didn't want to respond. But for the next two or 1157 00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:08,560 Speaker 1: three years he called me Trader Gray. Here, it comes 1158 00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:10,600 Speaker 1: Trader Gray, and he wouldn't talk to me. Trader Gray, 1159 00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:13,840 Speaker 1: Trader Gray. So we have a great relationship now and 1160 00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:16,840 Speaker 1: I love I love Shack. But when you ask about 1161 00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:19,600 Speaker 1: what it was like to cover them, uh, they had 1162 00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:24,880 Speaker 1: obviously tremendous highs with those uh three peak championships and 1163 00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:28,160 Speaker 1: uh to see that excellence of one of the greatest 1164 00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:31,560 Speaker 1: tandems in the history of of of basketball. But they 1165 00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:36,120 Speaker 1: also had some some really really really low lows, and 1166 00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:39,880 Speaker 1: so it was always unique and interesting. And I loved Kobe, 1167 00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:42,000 Speaker 1: and I knew Kobe from the time that he was 1168 00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:45,360 Speaker 1: an infant in in his mother Pam's arms. I was 1169 00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:47,600 Speaker 1: a scout believe it or not, guys for the San 1170 00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:51,760 Speaker 1: Diego Clippers, for Paul Silas and Pete Babcox. I had 1171 00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:55,200 Speaker 1: known Kobe as just uh. I'd seen Kobe grow from 1172 00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:57,400 Speaker 1: when his dad Jelly being played for the Clippers, and 1173 00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:00,360 Speaker 1: obviously my time in Philadelphia and and then so forth. 1174 01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:04,480 Speaker 1: But UH still hurt, still hurt, and grief that loss, 1175 01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:07,360 Speaker 1: and it's just tragic for Vanessa and the girls and 1176 01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,960 Speaker 1: the other families. But covering them, covering them was a 1177 01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:13,800 Speaker 1: great joy, and it was it was really really an 1178 01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:16,960 Speaker 1: interesting time and and something that will never see again. Nothing. 1179 01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:20,440 Speaker 1: You know, what I find interesting obviously is to me 1180 01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:23,240 Speaker 1: knowing code the way I did, and when I hear 1181 01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:27,680 Speaker 1: new stories, he used all the negativity as fire like 1182 01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:30,760 Speaker 1: that's what you saw on the court that mambo was 1183 01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:34,360 Speaker 1: he had a way of channeling all the other noise 1184 01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:37,640 Speaker 1: and distractions and bullshit into fire. But then at the 1185 01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:40,320 Speaker 1: same time, it's also amazing to hear the human side 1186 01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:43,200 Speaker 1: to let people know, like people have feelings, like this 1187 01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:46,520 Speaker 1: really wore him down and and I never knew that. 1188 01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:48,960 Speaker 1: And like to me, like I said, it's just interesting, 1189 01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:51,680 Speaker 1: especially when you're hearing about the goats, but just people 1190 01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:54,160 Speaker 1: in general. I think often people think we're robots that 1191 01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:57,200 Speaker 1: were just straight athletes because we make money, nothing affects 1192 01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:01,560 Speaker 1: us nothing. But it's interesting to hear that the human 1193 01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:04,360 Speaker 1: and the emotional side of what that cause, you know, 1194 01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:06,880 Speaker 1: because I know I hear a lot and have been 1195 01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:09,000 Speaker 1: around l A's kind of since Code got here, and 1196 01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:11,800 Speaker 1: you would hear stuff like, damn, they really did used 1197 01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:13,720 Speaker 1: to funk with Code, you know. I heard one story 1198 01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:17,479 Speaker 1: one time where and it was confirmed that Code would 1199 01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:20,240 Speaker 1: come on the plane of the bus sometimes with his 1200 01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:23,480 Speaker 1: headphones on but off, just so we can kind of 1201 01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:25,960 Speaker 1: hear what kind of ship that Shaq was gonna, you know, 1202 01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:28,680 Speaker 1: kind of be saying, but you know, everyone you might 1203 01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:31,280 Speaker 1: have thought they were on, but to kind of hear, 1204 01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:33,840 Speaker 1: you know, the human side and and and how that 1205 01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:36,960 Speaker 1: did beat him up and wear him down. But to 1206 01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,320 Speaker 1: see the finished product of what it turned him into, 1207 01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:43,560 Speaker 1: you know, it was pretty special. Shack was brutal to Kobe. Okay, 1208 01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:46,479 Speaker 1: he would he he was brutal in many ways. Uh 1209 01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:50,360 Speaker 1: take all the success aside. I mean, you know, Shack 1210 01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:56,600 Speaker 1: knows how to get everybody to coalesced around him. He's fun, 1211 01:01:56,680 --> 01:02:00,600 Speaker 1: he's engaging, he's he's light. Shock notes, Shack is a great, 1212 01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:03,280 Speaker 1: Shock is a great. You know, I played with Shock. 1213 01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:05,760 Speaker 1: I love Shocked to death. But like I said, you 1214 01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:08,400 Speaker 1: were around and then hearing stories it it sounds like 1215 01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:10,520 Speaker 1: it was. It was. It wasn't all out of time. 1216 01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:13,360 Speaker 1: He knew how to recruit guys into his camp, and 1217 01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:16,040 Speaker 1: Kobe wasn't. Kobe wasn't trying to be in anybody's camp. 1218 01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:18,200 Speaker 1: Kobe was trying to be the best basketball player ever 1219 01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:21,720 Speaker 1: and win championships. So he wasn't engaged in that type 1220 01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:25,120 Speaker 1: of fraternal order or you know, have to be the 1221 01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:28,280 Speaker 1: pipe piper, so to speak. And so you know, it 1222 01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:32,400 Speaker 1: worked against him and hurt him, but it also helped 1223 01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:36,000 Speaker 1: elevate him because he became stronger mentally. That Mamba mentality. 1224 01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:38,800 Speaker 1: And you know the good thing was it's by the 1225 01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:40,800 Speaker 1: end of Kobe's life. You know, they had worked out 1226 01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:43,360 Speaker 1: at the tant They weren't close, they weren't the best 1227 01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:45,840 Speaker 1: of buddies, they didn't hang out, but you know, they 1228 01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:48,400 Speaker 1: had a dant that they realized the time that they 1229 01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:51,520 Speaker 1: had spent together with Special that it probably had ended 1230 01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:53,920 Speaker 1: too soon. But Kobe went on and did what he 1231 01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:55,880 Speaker 1: wanted to do and prove to himself that he could 1232 01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:59,120 Speaker 1: be a champion with pall Gasol and with other teammates 1233 01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:01,840 Speaker 1: and to be the leader of the group. Instead of 1234 01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:05,000 Speaker 1: having you know, Shot make a self declaration that it 1235 01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:07,440 Speaker 1: was his team, Kobe was able to prove that no, 1236 01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:12,320 Speaker 1: it was it was in fact his team. So um, 1237 01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:15,200 Speaker 1: and at the end of the day, you know, you 1238 01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:17,400 Speaker 1: probably never know how good you have it till you 1239 01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:20,480 Speaker 1: don't have it anymore. I mean, everybody's life is kind 1240 01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:23,360 Speaker 1: of riddled with that, right. Um. All of us looked 1241 01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:24,920 Speaker 1: back and said, you know, that was pretty good. Why 1242 01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,560 Speaker 1: did I do things like that? And I think that 1243 01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:29,560 Speaker 1: they had come to to that, Like I say that 1244 01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:32,880 Speaker 1: the tome where they had come back together, not close, 1245 01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:37,480 Speaker 1: but just not antagonized anymore. What made Kobe, in your eyes, 1246 01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:44,080 Speaker 1: so special, He cared so much. He cared, he dug 1247 01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:48,080 Speaker 1: into everything deeply. If he was committed, he was committed, 1248 01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:51,400 Speaker 1: and that meant friendship to and loyalty. Was very loyal 1249 01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:54,800 Speaker 1: to me. I saw his loyalty play out UH in 1250 01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:59,680 Speaker 1: numerous ways, UH to a host of folks. And he 1251 01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:02,960 Speaker 1: never forgot. This guy had a memory. You talked about 1252 01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:06,959 Speaker 1: elephants have memories. No Kobe's. Kobe's have memories. They should 1253 01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:10,800 Speaker 1: rename the term. This guy did not forget anything about 1254 01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:13,640 Speaker 1: anybody at any time. If it was an act of kindness, 1255 01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:16,680 Speaker 1: he always appreciated it. If it was a slight, he 1256 01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:19,400 Speaker 1: had it filed. He had a big, big cabinet, and 1257 01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:22,520 Speaker 1: he knew, he knew where everybody was all the time, 1258 01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:24,880 Speaker 1: and he had it all sorted out. So he had 1259 01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:28,680 Speaker 1: he had a great, great memory, and he could also compartmentalize, 1260 01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:31,160 Speaker 1: and he would use for good what worked for good 1261 01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:33,800 Speaker 1: for him, and use for bad. As you pointed out earlier, 1262 01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:37,120 Speaker 1: that motivation and that fire and it drove him. And 1263 01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:40,040 Speaker 1: I think the other thing that that happened with Kobe 1264 01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:43,920 Speaker 1: is Kobe had a thousands and thousands of acts of 1265 01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:46,320 Speaker 1: kindness and he didn't look for recognition of it. He 1266 01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:48,920 Speaker 1: didn't want that acknowledgement. He didn't want that to go 1267 01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:53,320 Speaker 1: against that Mamba mentality that maybe somehow somebody might figure 1268 01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:55,800 Speaker 1: out that he had a softness, you know, that that 1269 01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:59,160 Speaker 1: that would work against him. But let's remember what's the 1270 01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:02,800 Speaker 1: most lasting impression that we have now of Kobe Bryant. 1271 01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:08,280 Speaker 1: It's kissing Gig, It's it's it's girl dad, that hashtag, 1272 01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:11,920 Speaker 1: it's it's you know, not only what he achieved on 1273 01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:15,000 Speaker 1: the basketball court, but it's that love that everybody has 1274 01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:17,800 Speaker 1: for him, what they saw off the court. And I 1275 01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,919 Speaker 1: was able to see that, you know, virtually his whole 1276 01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:24,080 Speaker 1: life and so and and that's what hurts so bad 1277 01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:28,400 Speaker 1: is that we don't have that anymore. Yeah, I mean, 1278 01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:31,120 Speaker 1: it's it's it's crazy you said that the lasting memory, 1279 01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:32,760 Speaker 1: because I felt the same way. I actually got that 1280 01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:35,360 Speaker 1: tattooed on my leg her at the All Star Game, 1281 01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:37,640 Speaker 1: reaching up and giving her dad a kiss. I I 1282 01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:39,760 Speaker 1: got that tatted on my leg about four months ago. 1283 01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:42,080 Speaker 1: So that is, at the end of the day, say 1284 01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:44,280 Speaker 1: what you want to me, that's what it was for me. 1285 01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:47,400 Speaker 1: You know, everything else was great, but the dad he 1286 01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:49,960 Speaker 1: was was what was so special and that's what really 1287 01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:52,440 Speaker 1: over Our connection grew was with kids and him sending 1288 01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:54,840 Speaker 1: my kids shoes and him coming to my kid's AU 1289 01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:57,360 Speaker 1: games and us going to check out GIS games. Like 1290 01:05:57,440 --> 01:06:02,560 Speaker 1: that was my eatness aside mamba side, like the human 1291 01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:05,040 Speaker 1: side of of Kobe is is what I, you know, 1292 01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:07,160 Speaker 1: always hold on to whenever I'm kind of feeling down 1293 01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:11,000 Speaker 1: about anything. He was special. It was just special. And 1294 01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:12,880 Speaker 1: I get goose bumps there and you say that about 1295 01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:15,520 Speaker 1: the tattoo, the tattoo that you have, and you know, 1296 01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:20,240 Speaker 1: I I knew him on on on, you know, just 1297 01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:23,200 Speaker 1: just just as a great, great friend. And we took 1298 01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:26,320 Speaker 1: a trip a few years ago uh to Hong Kong. 1299 01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:31,240 Speaker 1: Uh number of people in Hong Kong's some billionaires and 1300 01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:34,760 Speaker 1: Chinese billionaires wanted to hear Kobe speak, and so, UH 1301 01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:37,400 Speaker 1: make a long story short, they had me come interview him. 1302 01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:40,360 Speaker 1: And then after this interview for like twenty people for 1303 01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:43,800 Speaker 1: an hour, we went to a bar in Hong Kong 1304 01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:47,240 Speaker 1: and they only spoke Chinese there except where we sang karaoke. 1305 01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:51,120 Speaker 1: And Uh, I just never forget that night of of 1306 01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:56,080 Speaker 1: Kobe singing. Uh. Uh the jay z song of New 1307 01:06:56,160 --> 01:07:00,640 Speaker 1: York with Alicia Keys and my wife singing an Elvis song, 1308 01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:03,320 Speaker 1: I Can't Stop falling in Love with You. And my 1309 01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:06,439 Speaker 1: wife friend had had done the first commercial she worked 1310 01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:08,680 Speaker 1: for the Coca Cola company and did the first commercial 1311 01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:11,920 Speaker 1: that Kobe ever did when he was a seventeen eighteen 1312 01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:18,160 Speaker 1: year old youngster. Uh, first for sprite. Uh. She she 1313 01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:21,000 Speaker 1: did that commercial. So they had been very close for 1314 01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:23,800 Speaker 1: a long time as well. And Uh, and then I 1315 01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:26,640 Speaker 1: sang John Denver song believe it or not, country Roads 1316 01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:29,640 Speaker 1: Take Me Home, and we were singing in this Chinese uh, 1317 01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:36,040 Speaker 1: Chinese bar in Hong Kong. Country Roads anyway, So uh, 1318 01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:38,640 Speaker 1: West Virginia. So it made me even think of Jerry 1319 01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:40,680 Speaker 1: West when I was doing it, and and Kobe and 1320 01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:42,840 Speaker 1: I just kind of and and we were there and 1321 01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:45,080 Speaker 1: there were there were maybe twenty five or thirty people there, 1322 01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:49,080 Speaker 1: and his guard was totally down, and uh, and that's 1323 01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:51,560 Speaker 1: the Kobe that that I remember. That's the Kobe that 1324 01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:55,880 Speaker 1: that that you know, I was exposed to. And Uh, 1325 01:07:56,880 --> 01:07:59,800 Speaker 1: it's it's the one that that that we miss. And 1326 01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:04,800 Speaker 1: it's uh, the great, the great thing about Kobe, as 1327 01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:07,400 Speaker 1: tragic as this death is, he's left an imprint and 1328 01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:13,200 Speaker 1: indelible impression in our minds. And the outpouring um of 1329 01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:18,320 Speaker 1: of love and respect that was shown to him, uh 1330 01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:25,760 Speaker 1: and displayed um is you know, really in a category 1331 01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:29,280 Speaker 1: and almost unsurpassed in Los Angeles that I can remember 1332 01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:35,000 Speaker 1: um and across across the country and across the globe. 1333 01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:37,680 Speaker 1: And perhaps it's because of the way that he was 1334 01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:40,839 Speaker 1: lost with the others and and a beautiful girl, Gigi, 1335 01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:44,040 Speaker 1: and and perhaps it's because that's how they felt all 1336 01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:46,519 Speaker 1: this time and never were able to show him while 1337 01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:54,240 Speaker 1: he was alive. Right, that's why now that surprised me. No, 1338 01:08:54,360 --> 01:08:56,320 Speaker 1: but I mean that's why, you know, you're an advocate 1339 01:08:56,360 --> 01:08:58,360 Speaker 1: of giving people flowers, why they're here, and it's a 1340 01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:00,960 Speaker 1: it's an interesting point you to stun Jim. I think 1341 01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:04,640 Speaker 1: more than anything, they knew it. They just never you know, 1342 01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:08,360 Speaker 1: all the back talking in bullshit. They figured at one point, hey, 1343 01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:11,080 Speaker 1: I'll be able to pay my respects. But it just 1344 01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:13,120 Speaker 1: goes to show you never, don't you know that they 1345 01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:15,720 Speaker 1: had these amazing feelings about them, but they disguised them 1346 01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:18,000 Speaker 1: with hate in bullshit instead of just saying, hey, like 1347 01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:21,040 Speaker 1: we got a lot of love for you. But anyway, man, 1348 01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:23,360 Speaker 1: rest in peace to our brother Kobe and g G 1349 01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:27,040 Speaker 1: and obviously everyone else left lost on that flight two ten. 1350 01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:29,880 Speaker 1: Tell me what what what what it was like sitting 1351 01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:34,400 Speaker 1: across from Lebron James during the decision. From your point 1352 01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:40,280 Speaker 1: of view, it was the most unique moment I've had, 1353 01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:43,160 Speaker 1: probably in my career. It was the star of the 1354 01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:48,440 Speaker 1: NBA announcing to the league in the world his intentions. 1355 01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:50,439 Speaker 1: And I didn't know the answer to the question. I 1356 01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:52,720 Speaker 1: didn't want to know the answer to the question. And 1357 01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:54,960 Speaker 1: he was doing this, you know. It was like UH 1358 01:09:56,040 --> 01:09:58,800 Speaker 1: having a press conference with only one person being able 1359 01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:01,720 Speaker 1: to ask the questions, and that was me for this 1360 01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:06,000 Speaker 1: a show to give millions upon millions of dollars to 1361 01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:08,320 Speaker 1: the boys and Girls clubs that would help change and 1362 01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:11,280 Speaker 1: affect the lives for the better of thousands of kids. 1363 01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:15,280 Speaker 1: And UH be able to find out where where exactly 1364 01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:17,720 Speaker 1: Lebron was going to be playing, whether he would be 1365 01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:22,479 Speaker 1: staying or going elsewhere. So it was it was really unique. Um, 1366 01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:27,040 Speaker 1: nothing like that had ever occurred before, UH, And might 1367 01:10:27,080 --> 01:10:30,879 Speaker 1: I say, nothing like that probably will occur again. No. Absolutely, 1368 01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:33,120 Speaker 1: he took a lot of heat, I guess for the 1369 01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:37,480 Speaker 1: way it was done kind in all eyes on me situation, 1370 01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:40,679 Speaker 1: and whether you like the way he made it happen 1371 01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:43,840 Speaker 1: or not, what I took away from it was player empowerment. 1372 01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:48,520 Speaker 1: You know, he showed people for like superstars in particular, 1373 01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:51,559 Speaker 1: for the first time, like this is your career, Like, 1374 01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:53,439 Speaker 1: do what you want to do with your career now. 1375 01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:55,799 Speaker 1: Like you said, you may not agreed with the vehicle 1376 01:10:55,880 --> 01:10:57,680 Speaker 1: in which he did it, but at the end of 1377 01:10:57,680 --> 01:10:59,559 Speaker 1: the day, what I took away from it, and you've 1378 01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:02,880 Speaker 1: seen the ripple effects since as if you're a superstar, 1379 01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:05,720 Speaker 1: like you know, these teams aren't loyal at the end 1380 01:11:05,720 --> 01:11:07,120 Speaker 1: of the day, aren't loyal to you, and then the 1381 01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:09,640 Speaker 1: second you can't perform from them, they're gonna cut you 1382 01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:13,160 Speaker 1: trade your way view like take your career in your 1383 01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:15,120 Speaker 1: future and you're planning your own hands. And I always 1384 01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:17,479 Speaker 1: had a lot of respect and admiration for him when 1385 01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:19,840 Speaker 1: he did it that day, because ten years later you've 1386 01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:23,120 Speaker 1: seen a whole new landscape of the NBA because of 1387 01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:27,000 Speaker 1: the decision. That's exactly even I mean even today, even today, 1388 01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:30,840 Speaker 1: look James Harden holding out so you know, you hit 1389 01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:36,360 Speaker 1: it exactly exactly right, Matt and and Jack's exactly exactly right, 1390 01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:38,760 Speaker 1: and in the rear view mirror now ten years But 1391 01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:41,639 Speaker 1: it was the beginning of player empowerment. And I say 1392 01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:44,160 Speaker 1: that in talking to Goats in the book that the 1393 01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:49,240 Speaker 1: um this was the Kurt Flood moment for not only 1394 01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:53,800 Speaker 1: basketball players, but for players really in every sport. Of course, 1395 01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:57,240 Speaker 1: Kurt Flood all those years ago challenge the reserve clause 1396 01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:01,120 Speaker 1: and it was a very difficult road for him, but 1397 01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:03,120 Speaker 1: he paved the way for you guys. He paved the 1398 01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:05,840 Speaker 1: way for all athletes to be able to have the 1399 01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:08,600 Speaker 1: ability to be free. Okay, and he was doing it 1400 01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:13,920 Speaker 1: for baseball. Well, what Lebron James did here was not 1401 01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:17,080 Speaker 1: only the beginning of player empowerment in the and and 1402 01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:20,040 Speaker 1: the ability to bring super teams together. We had had 1403 01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:22,840 Speaker 1: super teams before, but it was the organizations who had 1404 01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:26,439 Speaker 1: put them together. It was the organizations who had manipulated it. 1405 01:12:26,439 --> 01:12:30,040 Speaker 1: It was not it was not because a certain player 1406 01:12:30,040 --> 01:12:32,360 Speaker 1: decided he wanted to go play with Dwyane Wade and 1407 01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:35,400 Speaker 1: Chris Bosh together that he did on his own volition. 1408 01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:39,280 Speaker 1: It was because the organizations were able to uh manipulate 1409 01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:42,719 Speaker 1: the system and bring folks together, or the draft worked 1410 01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:46,080 Speaker 1: out that David Robinson was hurt very badly one year 1411 01:12:46,120 --> 01:12:48,160 Speaker 1: and they were able to get the draft pick which 1412 01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:50,559 Speaker 1: turned into Tim Duncan. Well, that was more, you know, 1413 01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:53,920 Speaker 1: a quirk of fate than it was any planning. There 1414 01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:56,439 Speaker 1: was no planning in that it happened. It happened because 1415 01:12:56,520 --> 01:12:58,560 Speaker 1: one guy who was the best player or one of 1416 01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:02,200 Speaker 1: the best players, David Robinson hurt. And I understand that 1417 01:13:02,240 --> 01:13:04,439 Speaker 1: we have Kevin Garnett and what happened in Boston, I 1418 01:13:04,439 --> 01:13:07,000 Speaker 1: get all that, But what Lebron James did, it not 1419 01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:09,880 Speaker 1: only was player empowerment of deciding where you were going 1420 01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:11,960 Speaker 1: to go, how you were going to go, and when 1421 01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:15,200 Speaker 1: you were going to go. It also was really the 1422 01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:19,200 Speaker 1: advent and the birth of this social media of blossoming 1423 01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:24,280 Speaker 1: and boom okay. Now everybody that night when he took 1424 01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:27,320 Speaker 1: that hour from ESPN gave the money to charity. Is 1425 01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:30,839 Speaker 1: how athletes then decided they were going to communicate. Without 1426 01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:34,719 Speaker 1: the vehicle of the PR Department or without David Stern 1427 01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:38,240 Speaker 1: and the NBA having the ability to have the approval, 1428 01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:40,160 Speaker 1: they did it. He did it on his own, and 1429 01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:42,880 Speaker 1: he took all of the risk and he ultimately now 1430 01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:45,760 Speaker 1: got all of that reward, but he took. They made 1431 01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:48,080 Speaker 1: him into a villain, and the guy's never been a villain. 1432 01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:51,280 Speaker 1: What can you villainize about a guy who's won four championships? 1433 01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:53,400 Speaker 1: What can you villainize about a guy who's been to 1434 01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:56,479 Speaker 1: what ten NBA finals? What can you villainize about a 1435 01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:59,639 Speaker 1: guy who's built a school, who stands up for social 1436 01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:02,080 Speaker 1: just this, who gets people to go out and vote, 1437 01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:07,800 Speaker 1: who basically, uh, basically has done everything right, everything right 1438 01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:09,640 Speaker 1: in public. Okay, So now all of a sudden he 1439 01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:11,720 Speaker 1: had a television show to announce that he decided he 1440 01:14:11,760 --> 01:14:14,559 Speaker 1: wanted to go play basketball someplace else, and everybody and 1441 01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:17,000 Speaker 1: I understand, we could have been better. We could have 1442 01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:20,120 Speaker 1: done better. We could have been more sensitive to the 1443 01:14:20,120 --> 01:14:23,200 Speaker 1: fans in Cleveland who were deeply hurt by the best 1444 01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:25,439 Speaker 1: player in the league and a hometown hero from just 1445 01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:28,840 Speaker 1: outside inn Akron leaving their team. So we could have 1446 01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:31,080 Speaker 1: we could have handled that a little bit more sensitively, 1447 01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:34,800 Speaker 1: all of us um and and you know there there 1448 01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:37,439 Speaker 1: are certain aspects of the show obviously that had quirks 1449 01:14:37,439 --> 01:14:40,240 Speaker 1: and flaws. But look at social media now, and look 1450 01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:43,559 Speaker 1: at not only that, but the players Tribune and every 1451 01:14:43,720 --> 01:14:46,519 Speaker 1: and how and how you guys in all of sports 1452 01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:50,000 Speaker 1: now communicate with the public. You guys are now media 1453 01:14:50,240 --> 01:14:54,160 Speaker 1: media guys, your moguls, you have your own platforms. Okay, 1454 01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:58,880 Speaker 1: Well that really really started. That was the commencement of it. Okay. 1455 01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:02,559 Speaker 1: And I think that all athletes are a tremendous debt 1456 01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:05,720 Speaker 1: of gratitude to Lebron for what he had to go 1457 01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:08,360 Speaker 1: through to give them a better place. We now spend 1458 01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:12,679 Speaker 1: we now spend the majority of the year talking more 1459 01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:15,280 Speaker 1: about where is Kevin Garnett gonna play before he even 1460 01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:19,320 Speaker 1: wins the championship next year? Where will Kawaii Leonard end 1461 01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:22,320 Speaker 1: up before he's even completed the task, where he is, 1462 01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:24,439 Speaker 1: where is he going next year? And some of this, 1463 01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:27,559 Speaker 1: not all of it's for the good, but I would 1464 01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:31,639 Speaker 1: say a high percentile is very much for the good. 1465 01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:35,120 Speaker 1: And they owe all of that to Lebron. I agree, 1466 01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:38,240 Speaker 1: and I wish you know as as a former player 1467 01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:41,599 Speaker 1: and then moving into the media and media based too, 1468 01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:44,960 Speaker 1: but fans as well. I just had an appreciation and 1469 01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:48,919 Speaker 1: understanding for the moment of greatness, of not only Lebron's greatness, 1470 01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:52,040 Speaker 1: but of Kobe's greatness before he passed, of Steph's greatness 1471 01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:54,799 Speaker 1: of Janice's greatness. And I think too too too often 1472 01:15:55,479 --> 01:15:58,920 Speaker 1: it's it's cooler to hate or say something negative instead 1473 01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:01,040 Speaker 1: of showing appreciation. Just crazy to me, because at the 1474 01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:02,400 Speaker 1: end of the day and you touched on him with Kobe, 1475 01:16:02,479 --> 01:16:05,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people had admiration with Instead of showing admiration, 1476 01:16:05,160 --> 01:16:08,760 Speaker 1: they showed hate or despise or you know, sneak ship 1477 01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:12,200 Speaker 1: instead of just kind of realizing the moment and how 1478 01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:14,280 Speaker 1: special and lucky we are to be able to watch 1479 01:16:14,360 --> 01:16:16,920 Speaker 1: these guys do what they do at this kind of level. 1480 01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:18,880 Speaker 1: I'm not sure why all that goes on. It's it's 1481 01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:23,519 Speaker 1: it's it's a mystery to me. But Greenspan said something 1482 01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:25,120 Speaker 1: to me a long time ago. You guys know who 1483 01:16:25,120 --> 01:16:26,720 Speaker 1: Bud Greenspan was. He was a guy that wore the 1484 01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:28,760 Speaker 1: glasses on top of his head. He's before your time. 1485 01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:33,200 Speaker 1: He was a great olympian and documentarian, historian of the 1486 01:16:33,240 --> 01:16:36,200 Speaker 1: Olympic Games, and he did great films like Jesse Owens 1487 01:16:36,240 --> 01:16:38,840 Speaker 1: Returns to Berlin and The Wilma Rudolph Story and The 1488 01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:42,400 Speaker 1: Last African Runner, and he won all kinds of awards, peabodies, 1489 01:16:42,439 --> 01:16:45,880 Speaker 1: Emmy's Everything, and he said something to me when I 1490 01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:48,040 Speaker 1: was young and working for him. After I had done 1491 01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:50,519 Speaker 1: that Ali interview and I came out to Los Angeles 1492 01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:52,479 Speaker 1: to work on the eighty four Olympics as as one 1493 01:16:52,479 --> 01:16:56,240 Speaker 1: of the producers on his film Sixteen Days of Glory, 1494 01:16:56,360 --> 01:16:58,920 Speaker 1: and he said to me something that that just doesn't 1495 01:16:58,920 --> 01:17:02,200 Speaker 1: seem to be to perveye in our in our society, 1496 01:17:02,479 --> 01:17:05,800 Speaker 1: um because of the competition. And when he said it 1497 01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:08,040 Speaker 1: to me, I thought it was condescending and arrogant, but 1498 01:17:08,120 --> 01:17:10,240 Speaker 1: he said, I knew I was good when I could 1499 01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:14,400 Speaker 1: look at someone else's work and admire it. I'm just 1500 01:17:14,479 --> 01:17:16,639 Speaker 1: not sure why people just can't look at people's work 1501 01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:19,679 Speaker 1: and admire it. Maybe they don't feel they're good, Maybe 1502 01:17:19,680 --> 01:17:22,559 Speaker 1: they don't feel that they're up to snuff. Maybe they 1503 01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:24,920 Speaker 1: don't feel I think it always perfect in their lives, 1504 01:17:25,040 --> 01:17:27,920 Speaker 1: and maybe they just feel that by tearing down somebody 1505 01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:30,800 Speaker 1: else somehow that makes them look better, them feel better. 1506 01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:36,000 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's more it's a sad circumstance. It's more 1507 01:17:36,040 --> 01:17:38,760 Speaker 1: of a reflection on the person who's doing it, you 1508 01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:40,479 Speaker 1: know what I mean. And I think that's obviously the 1509 01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:42,200 Speaker 1: era we live in now with social media, which is 1510 01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:44,439 Speaker 1: unfortunate and that's why I try to shield my kids 1511 01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:46,680 Speaker 1: because they're coming into the spotlight that you know, we 1512 01:17:46,800 --> 01:17:48,920 Speaker 1: just launched their podcast and we have a behind the 1513 01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:51,400 Speaker 1: scenes show. They're a you team, and it's weird that 1514 01:17:51,439 --> 01:17:53,639 Speaker 1: I have to have a conversation on what's coming for them, 1515 01:17:53,640 --> 01:17:56,040 Speaker 1: like people are gonna hate you for and they're not 1516 01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:58,439 Speaker 1: even great, they're just their kids. But at the same time, 1517 01:17:58,479 --> 01:18:00,400 Speaker 1: knowing where they're going, people are gonna hate you because 1518 01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:02,080 Speaker 1: you have something going for you, and you have to 1519 01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:04,240 Speaker 1: kind of understand that and not let that play with 1520 01:18:04,280 --> 01:18:06,679 Speaker 1: your mind because as a child, you know, we're fortunate 1521 01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:09,120 Speaker 1: enough to not really start listening to all the buzz 1522 01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:11,720 Speaker 1: until social media came around, but to grow up in 1523 01:18:11,760 --> 01:18:15,519 Speaker 1: it and to hear and constantly compared in in trash talk, 1524 01:18:15,720 --> 01:18:18,160 Speaker 1: in disrespect and hurtful things being said to a child. 1525 01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:20,160 Speaker 1: I think that's something you need to brace them for, 1526 01:18:20,200 --> 01:18:22,040 Speaker 1: because that's not something we grew up with. We didn't 1527 01:18:22,040 --> 01:18:24,920 Speaker 1: grow up with constant negativity at the palm of our hand. 1528 01:18:26,240 --> 01:18:27,840 Speaker 1: I would agree with that. I mean, you know, it's 1529 01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:29,880 Speaker 1: it's it's a whole different paradigm. I mean, we used 1530 01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:31,920 Speaker 1: to have letters to the editor and one letter used 1531 01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:34,240 Speaker 1: to represent how a thousand people would feel. But that 1532 01:18:34,360 --> 01:18:36,720 Speaker 1: letter didn't always get printed even if even if they 1533 01:18:36,720 --> 01:18:39,160 Speaker 1: had a negative feeling, or they would call into the 1534 01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:41,760 Speaker 1: station and they would inundate the switchboard. You know that 1535 01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:43,880 Speaker 1: happened to me with Pete Rose interview. You know all 1536 01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:46,120 Speaker 1: of the negative hate mail and and all of the 1537 01:18:46,160 --> 01:18:49,120 Speaker 1: tonts and threats that came into the voice mails, and 1538 01:18:49,120 --> 01:18:51,320 Speaker 1: and what they did to the switchboards across the country. 1539 01:18:51,320 --> 01:18:55,360 Speaker 1: But the negativity of today and and uh with young kids, 1540 01:18:55,360 --> 01:18:57,920 Speaker 1: and the bullying that goes on, and and and and 1541 01:18:58,080 --> 01:19:02,320 Speaker 1: the seemingly okaynus if that's a word of this being 1542 01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:05,519 Speaker 1: directed at people. UM. I think it was Mike Tyson 1543 01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:09,519 Speaker 1: who brilliantly said not too long ago, um, and I 1544 01:19:09,560 --> 01:19:12,440 Speaker 1: have it on my telephone. But because I love the quote, 1545 01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:19,040 Speaker 1: I haven't go ahead and tell it. I think people 1546 01:19:19,080 --> 01:19:22,479 Speaker 1: get too comfortable with disrespecting it. Was something along those lines. 1547 01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:25,320 Speaker 1: People have gotten way too comfortable with being able to 1548 01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:28,560 Speaker 1: say negative stuff about it without facing the consequence of 1549 01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:32,439 Speaker 1: being punched in the mouth, straight up, straight up. One thing, 1550 01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:34,000 Speaker 1: one thing, I was tired. I was tired as a 1551 01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:35,839 Speaker 1: young and it's some free game for all the youngsters 1552 01:19:35,840 --> 01:19:37,880 Speaker 1: that there. And it's something that I always lived by. 1553 01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:41,280 Speaker 1: Never demean somebody for your personal game. It's gonna always 1554 01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:44,040 Speaker 1: backfire on you. I agree with that. I agree with 1555 01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:48,920 Speaker 1: that absolutely twenty Basketball Hall of Fame class Kobe KG Duncan. 1556 01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:53,040 Speaker 1: How much do you epitomize excuse, how much do they 1557 01:19:53,040 --> 01:19:57,599 Speaker 1: epitomize goats? With just all the fame class? Well, Kobe 1558 01:19:57,680 --> 01:20:02,040 Speaker 1: leading the way, Um, it's it's it's it's a it's 1559 01:20:02,080 --> 01:20:06,080 Speaker 1: an unbelievably great class. Okay, and Tim Duncan is such 1560 01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:09,519 Speaker 1: an understated guy, but boy was he great. Uh, great 1561 01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:12,880 Speaker 1: to deal with as a professional, just a just a 1562 01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:15,960 Speaker 1: true professional, great to be around, obviously, a great teammate, 1563 01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:19,840 Speaker 1: a great champion, um and uh, just a pleasure Kobe. 1564 01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:22,680 Speaker 1: Obviously we've we've we've talked about him. And you know 1565 01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:25,840 Speaker 1: who who else had the dedication uh that that Kevin 1566 01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:28,840 Speaker 1: Kevin Garnett gave to the game of basketball and the 1567 01:20:28,880 --> 01:20:32,000 Speaker 1: pursuit of excellence that he, uh, that he put forth 1568 01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:35,800 Speaker 1: for all of those many years and to see that rewarded, 1569 01:20:36,200 --> 01:20:39,080 Speaker 1: you know, after what had gone on and all that 1570 01:20:39,120 --> 01:20:42,640 Speaker 1: he gave to Minnesota and falling short with the Timberwolves 1571 01:20:42,640 --> 01:20:45,960 Speaker 1: and then coming and being able to capture that championship 1572 01:20:46,360 --> 01:20:49,160 Speaker 1: with the Boston Celtics, and and to uh, you know, 1573 01:20:49,240 --> 01:20:51,240 Speaker 1: to see you know, just to have been able to 1574 01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:54,839 Speaker 1: see his story and to see what what had been achieved, 1575 01:20:54,840 --> 01:20:56,719 Speaker 1: and then you know the others who are going into 1576 01:20:56,720 --> 01:21:01,200 Speaker 1: that class as well. Um, it's uh, it's it's it's 1577 01:21:01,240 --> 01:21:04,519 Speaker 1: better sweet, it's it's it's sweet to see those guys 1578 01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:08,400 Speaker 1: get their day. It's it's better because of COVID and obviously, 1579 01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:12,080 Speaker 1: uh with without Kobe being there, I know Vanessa will 1580 01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:17,280 Speaker 1: be participating. Um, I'm honored that I've been given the 1581 01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:21,479 Speaker 1: Kirk Gaudy Award to be able to participate, which is 1582 01:21:22,320 --> 01:21:26,000 Speaker 1: tremendous thrill and honor for me to be able to 1583 01:21:26,080 --> 01:21:28,400 Speaker 1: get that award at the Hall of Fame with with 1584 01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:32,040 Speaker 1: Kobe and the others that Mike Breen also getting it 1585 01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:36,519 Speaker 1: in the in the Gang from H. Turner, Ernie Johnson 1586 01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:40,400 Speaker 1: and H Charles Barkley and and and their show going 1587 01:21:40,439 --> 01:21:43,800 Speaker 1: in with Kenny Smith and Shack. So it's a it's 1588 01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:48,080 Speaker 1: a it's it's a great class. Um and it's uh 1589 01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:50,720 Speaker 1: it I mean, are you gonna get any better than 1590 01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:54,200 Speaker 1: those three? Uh? And the others who will who will 1591 01:21:54,240 --> 01:21:58,600 Speaker 1: be with them um Uh, Tamika Catchings Uh look at 1592 01:21:58,640 --> 01:22:01,960 Speaker 1: everything that she was able to achieve, you um and 1593 01:22:01,960 --> 01:22:06,120 Speaker 1: and the other Hall of famers. So unfortunately it wasn't 1594 01:22:06,160 --> 01:22:09,880 Speaker 1: able to happen back in August, and it'll happen now 1595 01:22:10,360 --> 01:22:12,760 Speaker 1: in the second week I believe of May is when 1596 01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:15,640 Speaker 1: we'll all go to Springfield and Mohican Son and have 1597 01:22:15,760 --> 01:22:19,840 Speaker 1: that ceremony before the class of will go in uh 1598 01:22:19,920 --> 01:22:25,560 Speaker 1: later in the summer. Congratulations to you as well, all right, absolutely, 1599 01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:27,320 Speaker 1: I mean in case you guys missed it, I mean 1600 01:22:27,400 --> 01:22:29,120 Speaker 1: he's going. You're going in the Hall of Fame as well, 1601 01:22:29,160 --> 01:22:32,200 Speaker 1: your Hall of Fame obviously on the media side, but 1602 01:22:32,240 --> 01:22:34,799 Speaker 1: it just goes to show just your body of work 1603 01:22:35,080 --> 01:22:37,840 Speaker 1: has has been rewarded as it should be, and how 1604 01:22:37,880 --> 01:22:40,640 Speaker 1: much as someone who played the game and got a 1605 01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:42,720 Speaker 1: chance to interact with you, and now someone who's in 1606 01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:45,160 Speaker 1: the media space as well, how much we respect and 1607 01:22:45,200 --> 01:22:47,680 Speaker 1: look up to you and appreciate what you've done, not 1608 01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:51,599 Speaker 1: only for the game, but showing other media outlets how 1609 01:22:51,680 --> 01:22:56,000 Speaker 1: you should handle and deal and actually build friendships with athletes, 1610 01:22:56,040 --> 01:22:57,960 Speaker 1: because like I said, it's at the very beginning of you, 1611 01:22:58,400 --> 01:23:00,559 Speaker 1: it's very rare to have friendship, and you have been 1612 01:23:00,680 --> 01:23:04,120 Speaker 1: friendships and in great relationships with some of the greatest 1613 01:23:04,160 --> 01:23:07,479 Speaker 1: ever played any game. Well, thank you. And that's what's 1614 01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:10,000 Speaker 1: meant the most to me. It's the relationship. You know, 1615 01:23:10,479 --> 01:23:13,599 Speaker 1: I just heard you know, you obviously have children. My 1616 01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:16,760 Speaker 1: wife and I don't have children, So our friends are 1617 01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:20,599 Speaker 1: our family. And so when you are able to have 1618 01:23:20,640 --> 01:23:23,880 Speaker 1: these friendships and these relationships with guys, uh, you know, 1619 01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:26,640 Speaker 1: there's tremendous meaning in it. And that doesn't mean that 1620 01:23:26,680 --> 01:23:28,320 Speaker 1: you don't do your job. And that doesn't mean that 1621 01:23:28,360 --> 01:23:31,080 Speaker 1: I haven't asked all of these guys questions that needed 1622 01:23:31,120 --> 01:23:33,280 Speaker 1: to be asked. A lot of times they said, well, 1623 01:23:33,280 --> 01:23:36,240 Speaker 1: is that a conflict? Well, what's the conflict? I've asked 1624 01:23:36,280 --> 01:23:38,479 Speaker 1: everybody who's been in front of me what I thought 1625 01:23:38,479 --> 01:23:40,680 Speaker 1: should be asked for the people I work with and 1626 01:23:40,760 --> 01:23:43,880 Speaker 1: for and for the audience. And uh, somebody asked me 1627 01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:46,400 Speaker 1: about that at the Hall of Fame, the Boxing Hall 1628 01:23:46,439 --> 01:23:48,800 Speaker 1: of Fame a couple of years ago, uh, with Mike 1629 01:23:48,840 --> 01:23:51,320 Speaker 1: Tyson and I and I said, look, Mike Tyson just 1630 01:23:51,320 --> 01:23:53,519 Speaker 1: got hit in the head a hundred and fifty times 1631 01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:58,120 Speaker 1: by Evander Holyfield. Tom Brady just got sacked five times 1632 01:23:58,439 --> 01:24:01,439 Speaker 1: by Michael Strahan, Kobe Bryan. It's been elbowed, his feet 1633 01:24:01,439 --> 01:24:04,080 Speaker 1: are stepped on, He've been knocked to the ground eighteen times. 1634 01:24:04,080 --> 01:24:07,280 Speaker 1: Do you really think there's any question that I asked him, uh, 1635 01:24:07,320 --> 01:24:09,960 Speaker 1: that he's going to be offended by or somehow you 1636 01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:12,760 Speaker 1: think that will affect our relationship? If that was the case, 1637 01:24:12,760 --> 01:24:14,400 Speaker 1: how could they have ever competed in the game that 1638 01:24:14,520 --> 01:24:18,439 Speaker 1: just transpired. They couldn't do it. So of course you 1639 01:24:18,479 --> 01:24:20,680 Speaker 1: ask the questions that are necessary, but that doesn't mean 1640 01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:22,720 Speaker 1: that you can't have a relationship with somebody or that 1641 01:24:22,760 --> 01:24:25,760 Speaker 1: you can't be able to, you know, have empathy for 1642 01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:29,320 Speaker 1: them and compassion for them when they win, lose, or 1643 01:24:29,720 --> 01:24:33,800 Speaker 1: joy either way, any of those feelings. So the relationships 1644 01:24:33,880 --> 01:24:36,800 Speaker 1: I think, uh, as you guys will attest now that 1645 01:24:36,840 --> 01:24:39,320 Speaker 1: you're out of basketball, isn't that what you've taken with 1646 01:24:39,360 --> 01:24:43,720 Speaker 1: you now as you carry on in your life. Yep. Absolutely, 1647 01:24:44,479 --> 01:24:47,000 Speaker 1: that's a big reason for success. I was about to say, 1648 01:24:47,040 --> 01:24:50,240 Speaker 1: that's why we're here now is what we formed as players, 1649 01:24:51,400 --> 01:24:54,360 Speaker 1: and that's why everybody comes on your show. They don't 1650 01:24:54,400 --> 01:24:56,519 Speaker 1: come on your show because they can't stand you they 1651 01:24:56,560 --> 01:24:58,840 Speaker 1: come on your show because you have a relationship with 1652 01:24:58,920 --> 01:25:05,200 Speaker 1: your right I agreed, home stretched quick hitters. First thing 1653 01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:07,479 Speaker 1: to come to mind. We'll started off with the best 1654 01:25:07,560 --> 01:25:13,479 Speaker 1: fight you ever covered Castillo, Corrales and Hagler, hearns oh 1655 01:25:13,720 --> 01:25:19,200 Speaker 1: Still Coral showtime. That was unbelievable and the Ego Corrals 1656 01:25:19,320 --> 01:25:22,880 Speaker 1: rest his soul had the had the greatest response to 1657 01:25:22,920 --> 01:25:24,840 Speaker 1: a question that I've asked. I said, how would you 1658 01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:28,280 Speaker 1: describe this fight? He said, this fight was an honor 1659 01:25:32,160 --> 01:25:41,120 Speaker 1: big best NBA moment covered. Wow, Um well I was. 1660 01:25:41,240 --> 01:25:44,320 Speaker 1: I was personally thrilled for Julius Irving at the time 1661 01:25:44,840 --> 01:25:48,400 Speaker 1: to win that championship. And then obviously to see Michael 1662 01:25:48,439 --> 01:25:51,479 Speaker 1: Jordan's final shot as a bull uh that was great. 1663 01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:54,599 Speaker 1: And then to have been at that Dream Team practice 1664 01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:57,519 Speaker 1: uh in Monte Carlo to see the best game that 1665 01:25:57,560 --> 01:26:00,800 Speaker 1: nobody unfortunately ever got to see. Uh. So I would 1666 01:26:00,840 --> 01:26:03,639 Speaker 1: say that even though that wasn't an NBA moment, uh 1667 01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:06,240 Speaker 1: those three uh and and to have Chuck Daily win 1668 01:26:06,280 --> 01:26:10,120 Speaker 1: a championship as my best friend and um as I 1669 01:26:10,120 --> 01:26:12,680 Speaker 1: stated earlier, introduced me to my wife and and just 1670 01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:16,360 Speaker 1: it was was such a dear, dear close pal to 1671 01:26:16,400 --> 01:26:19,040 Speaker 1: see him win that championship with the Pistons. Yeah, that 1672 01:26:19,160 --> 01:26:22,520 Speaker 1: was that was that was special, particularly after the disappointment 1673 01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:25,400 Speaker 1: of losing in the Boston Garden and Isaiah throwing away 1674 01:26:25,439 --> 01:26:29,440 Speaker 1: the ball and then losing to pat Riley and the 1675 01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:32,120 Speaker 1: Lakers the year before in that game seven. So I 1676 01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:34,519 Speaker 1: would say those four things, two of them really personal 1677 01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:36,840 Speaker 1: and two of them just huge, huge events in the 1678 01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:40,799 Speaker 1: history of basketball. Favorite interview, Favorite interview, Well, I probably 1679 01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:43,760 Speaker 1: would say my favorite. I would say the first one 1680 01:26:43,800 --> 01:26:47,760 Speaker 1: with Ali and the ear biding with Tyson. We didn't 1681 01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:49,599 Speaker 1: get to get into them, and that would have been awesome. 1682 01:26:50,120 --> 01:26:53,479 Speaker 1: Five goat dinner guests, So around the table, a nice 1683 01:26:53,479 --> 01:26:55,920 Speaker 1: bottle of wine. Who are you? Who are five people 1684 01:26:55,960 --> 01:27:02,280 Speaker 1: you're having at your table? Human? Just human beings? Are works? No? 1685 01:27:02,400 --> 01:27:09,320 Speaker 1: He people? People? Yeah? Whoever? Nelson Mandela, who I did 1686 01:27:09,320 --> 01:27:12,400 Speaker 1: have a meal with. He was the most remarkable and 1687 01:27:12,439 --> 01:27:19,519 Speaker 1: special man I ever met, uh Winston Churchill because of 1688 01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:26,680 Speaker 1: obvious reasons. Um Muhammad Ali because he makes everything so 1689 01:27:26,760 --> 01:27:29,400 Speaker 1: much fun, and he would have just had everybody laughing, 1690 01:27:29,479 --> 01:27:32,080 Speaker 1: and you know, would have even with those folks, been 1691 01:27:32,160 --> 01:27:36,960 Speaker 1: probably the center of attention. Um My dad, because he 1692 01:27:37,040 --> 01:27:43,960 Speaker 1: was my hero, and I'm gonna come back to that 1693 01:27:44,040 --> 01:27:45,760 Speaker 1: last guest before we finished. I don't want to think 1694 01:27:45,760 --> 01:27:50,160 Speaker 1: about that for a second. Maybe maybe maybe Dr King 1695 01:27:50,920 --> 01:27:55,080 Speaker 1: because he was so prevalent. Maybe President Kennedy because that 1696 01:27:55,200 --> 01:27:57,880 Speaker 1: was that was so traumatic in my childhood. To see 1697 01:27:57,920 --> 01:28:01,719 Speaker 1: both of them assassinated would have been kind of cool. 1698 01:28:01,760 --> 01:28:03,800 Speaker 1: I think to be able to have a conversation with 1699 01:28:03,880 --> 01:28:08,080 Speaker 1: them and understand more about them, uh, and and learn 1700 01:28:08,120 --> 01:28:12,679 Speaker 1: from them. Oh obviously, you know you could get into 1701 01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:17,160 Speaker 1: religious figures. Uh. You know it would be interesting to 1702 01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:21,200 Speaker 1: have them as well. So um, yeah, I know, I 1703 01:28:21,240 --> 01:28:22,880 Speaker 1: know I'd have those four and I'll come back to 1704 01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:26,439 Speaker 1: the fifth. All right, who would you like to see 1705 01:28:26,479 --> 01:28:28,720 Speaker 1: on our show? And if you know them personally, we 1706 01:28:28,760 --> 01:28:31,599 Speaker 1: would love your help getting them. I'd like to see 1707 01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:38,640 Speaker 1: Barack Obama on your show. Oh whoa good? Yeah, you 1708 01:28:38,720 --> 01:28:40,600 Speaker 1: do you a go for a reason, man, you are 1709 01:28:41,760 --> 01:28:45,000 Speaker 1: because he loves basketball, and I think he would enjoy 1710 01:28:45,400 --> 01:28:48,120 Speaker 1: what you guys have to ask him. I don't know 1711 01:28:48,160 --> 01:28:51,160 Speaker 1: that I don't have any influence, unfortunately, on the former 1712 01:28:51,200 --> 01:28:53,639 Speaker 1: president other than I've interviewed them before a few times. 1713 01:28:53,640 --> 01:28:55,320 Speaker 1: But I think if you put out your failers and 1714 01:28:55,360 --> 01:28:58,840 Speaker 1: you guys know how to connect that he's a basketball 1715 01:28:58,920 --> 01:29:03,280 Speaker 1: aholic and go for halic absolutely, so I think that 1716 01:29:02,920 --> 01:29:06,920 Speaker 1: I think thank you. Uh, this has been a very 1717 01:29:06,920 --> 01:29:09,640 Speaker 1: special interview today. Man. I've enjoyed every second. I was 1718 01:29:09,720 --> 01:29:13,559 Speaker 1: hypotized by some of your stories. Um, we appreciate all. 1719 01:29:13,640 --> 01:29:15,400 Speaker 1: Like we said earlier, all you've done in this space 1720 01:29:15,400 --> 01:29:18,519 Speaker 1: and continued success. Best wishes for you and your wife 1721 01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:22,160 Speaker 1: and your mom as well recovering from cancer. So thank 1722 01:29:22,160 --> 01:29:24,240 Speaker 1: you for your time today. Thanks so much for having me. 1723 01:29:24,280 --> 01:29:26,479 Speaker 1: I appreciate it. And we're gonna have six guests. I'd 1724 01:29:26,520 --> 01:29:31,000 Speaker 1: bring along you Matt and you Mr Jackson, that would 1725 01:29:31,960 --> 01:29:38,680 Speaker 1: let's do it all right? Hey, well that's a wrap. Uh. 1726 01:29:38,720 --> 01:29:40,960 Speaker 1: That's another edition of All the Smoke. Thank you to 1727 01:29:41,040 --> 01:29:44,080 Speaker 1: our guests, the legendary Jim Gray going into the Hall 1728 01:29:44,080 --> 01:29:48,160 Speaker 1: of Fame in the good luck with that, you can 1729 01:29:48,160 --> 01:29:51,240 Speaker 1: catch us on Showtime Basketball YouTube in the I Heart 1730 01:29:51,320 --> 01:29:54,120 Speaker 1: platform Black Effects. We'll see you all next time. This 1731 01:29:54,200 --> 01:29:56,759 Speaker 1: is All a Smoke, a production of The Black Effect 1732 01:29:56,880 --> 01:29:59,480 Speaker 1: and our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime