WEBVTT - S1: Ep 8 - The Last Word 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.800 Hi, all, we have some exciting news to share. Paramount 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:07.560 Plus has turned Burden of Guilt into a docuseries. You 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:10.840 will get to meet the people involved, You'll hear from 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:13.840 the people who have never spoken before, and you get 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:17.079 to see where the story took place. We are so 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:20.600 proud and excited to share it with you. You can 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:29.479 stream it right now on Paramount Plus. Jan Berry Sandlin 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:33.240 left his third trial convicted of the murder of Matthew Golder, 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:38.120 and in two thousand and one, the Supreme Court of 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:45.320 Georgia held up the verdict on appeal. He remains in 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:48.960 a Florida prison and the consequences of his bad acts 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:59.320 continued to reverberate. He will die in prison. I'm Nancy 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:06.319 Glass and this is Burden of Guilt, Episode eight, The 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:15.560 Last Word. Tracy Riquel's story started in nineteen seventy one 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:18.920 and it isn't over yet. In the last episode, we 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:22.399 learn more about the unfinished business that still weighs on her. 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:26.680 Did Jan Barry Sandlin commit other murders and get away 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.679 with them. I've reached out to Jan for an interview 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:32.560 and he said yes, but the prison won't let us in. 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:37.600 If that changes, we will update you. This series has 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.080 been several years in the making, so we want to 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:45.760 tie up some loose ends. Okay, Tracy Riquel, let's start here. 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:50.400 You didn't go to Matthew's exhumation, and you were the 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:55.520 reason it was happening, right, you wanted to explain why 0:01:55.560 --> 0:02:00.120 you didn't go. Matthew's exhumation was a pivotal point in 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:04.560 the investigation and in Jan's conviction. The Medical Examiner's office 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:08.840 exhumed Matthew's body with very little expectation of finding any 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:13.360 remains to study after so many years. So just to 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.600 set this up, here's what the district attorney and medical 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:17.880 examiner told us. 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:18.960 When we got there. 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:25.440 It was a clear day, a little cool, and when 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:27.800 I got to the grave site, the dirt had already 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:35.000 been moved. I'd remember feeling a bit more somber. It 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:38.400 seemed to me that we were disturbing a sleeping baby, 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:41.120 and that really bothered me. 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:46.520 Assistant District Attorney Leanne Manguon attended the exhumation. She tried 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:50.800 to support Kathy as she watched everything unfold. Tracy Raquel 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:51.600 was not there. 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:57.359 I remember her being quite emotional, crying, and I kind 0:02:57.360 --> 0:02:58.360 of took my cues from her. 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:01.760 She wanted to stand back, and that happened. I didn't 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:07.000 go to the exhumation because there was already so much 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:11.720 media attention, and I knew that Kathy was going with 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:15.160 the district attorneys and we were barely on speaking terms 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:20.040 if that, and I just felt like it would be disrespectful, 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.239 you know, to go and what stand on the other 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:26.760 side of the cemetery, away from her, right. 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:30.000 You didn't want to call more attention or attention in 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:32.560 the wrong way to what was going on. 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:38.320 Correct, Yes, the titchen needed to be about Matthew's death, 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:41.720 his homicide, and how are we going to take care 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:44.120 of that? That needed to be the priority. 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:47.640 Let's talk about the mistrial for a sec You were 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:51.320 told you couldn't watch the trial or read about it, 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:53.640 but you did catch a glimpse of your mother on 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:58.080 TV and you told the prosecution about that because it 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:01.040 was the right thing to do. Let's listen to what 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:02.200 the judge said about that. 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:07.000 There has been an egregious violation of the witness of 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:10.960 frustration rule, which in the context of this case, is irreputable. 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:13.800 You felt you were demonized for this. 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:17.520 It's just how it was to trade. You know, everything 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:24.200 from the mistrial happening, what media press. I mean, I 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:26.279 think that was bigger story than the fact that this 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:29.080 case got reopened. Was like, Oh, the girl who you 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:30.760 know has spent all her life trying to get this 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:33.679 case reopen, just ruined it because she can't follow rules. 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:36.479 The press was really hard on you. 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:39.719 We've got a case that's down the tubes at this point. 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:44.440 January Sandlin's attorney exploded in court this morning, outraged after 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.560 Tracy Raymon admitted she saw news coverage of her father's 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:51.160 trial yesterday, despite a judge's order not to watch or 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:53.279 read anything about it until it was over. 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.120 I don't think that I have done anything wrong to 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:58.480 effect this man's right. 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:02.760 So it's just a lot of humiliation. And then you know, 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:07.119 Jan's calling me from the prison on the phone twenty 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:10.480 four to forty eight hours saying, ha ha, you know 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:13.479 you were going to win the battle, but I'm going 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:15.520 to win the war. I mean, he was laughing at me. 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:20.400 On another topic, there was something the DA's office. Let 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:24.960 you know, it was an action taken by the defense. 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:31.000 Right after the mistrial happened. Jeff Brickman, Leanne and Jacom 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:37.120 handed me a document, and it was a falsified subpoena 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:40.000 for medical records for me. 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.880 You were not notified that Corin Mal had subpoenaed your records. 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:48.760 She had been looking for what Kathy told the staff 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:52.160 at the psychiatric hospital where she tried to commit you 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:56.400 when you were a teenager, and neither you nor Kathy 0:05:56.600 --> 0:06:00.640 would have ever agreed to release your files, right, So 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.000 what was it like for you to find out about that? 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:06.440 It felt like a betrayal all over again. It was, 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:10.120 you know, hey, I can't defend this man, so I've 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.400 got to get evidence about this child and try and 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:15.160 get something done. 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:20.279 Cracy Raquel ended up suing public defender Carine Mal, her office, 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:24.400 and the hospital. The case was settled. You want to 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:27.240 talk about the fact that Jan got married while all 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:28.240 this was going on. 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:32.520 I've heard people say in prison, but really, if he 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:36.360 got married during the trial, what, Yeah, it was the 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:39.840 most bizarre thing. This woman was coming to see him 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:43.159 and her daughter, which turned out to be Jan's daughter, 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:46.080 and I think she was only sixteen or seventeen, but 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:50.159 they were at the courthouse that I remember Leanne and 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:54.240 Jeff calling me and saying, you're not going to believe this. 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:59.240 And what's even crazier, the media covered it like it 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:00.280 was and a vent. 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:02.920 Who gives this woman to be married? 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:04.120 Is it Angela? 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:10.240 Charlie, Charlene? Do you would you take Jane to be 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:14.280 your witted husband? Do you take this man? Okay, say 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:19.080 this for me. I take Charlene to be my widded wife, 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:24.080 to have and to hold from this day forward, for 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:29.040 better or worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and help, 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:34.800 and to love and to cherish till death. Do us 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:35.120 for it. 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:37.400 She was another one of those girls in high school 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:39.360 who was just enamored with him or whatever. 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:42.080 Ladies and gentlemhen, I present to you, mister and missus 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:43.280 Janne Sadelin. 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:45.200 I love him very much. 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:48.000 I believe in his innocence, and I believe that there 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:50.560 would bestly be a retrial, and when there is, they 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:52.320 will have a turnaround authority. 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:56.600 All these women met him in high school and still 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:57.680 have a thing for him. 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:00.400 I just don't understand that is a whole separate thinking 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:02.400 that I am not qualified to discuss. 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:07.560 Let's put Kathy's sister, your aunt June in the conversation, 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:11.200 because she got you out of the house she gave 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:14.040 you a job in her hair salon. She did a 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:16.920 lot of wonderful things for you. She was very supportive, 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:18.680 and then she disappeared. 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:24.040 Well she did, and I love her still. She was 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:27.360 somebody who was very important to me, and she was 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:31.880 in a lot of ways of surrogate. Abuse is not 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:37.800 a one generation thing. It has many generations. It takes 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:42.480 many generations to get to certain places, and everybody in 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:47.080 a family will handle that abuse differently. Kathy has always 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:50.240 said that she grew up in an abusive environment. 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:54.240 Do you think Aunt June would talk about any of 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:58.440 the abuse because she was your advocate as a kid. 0:08:58.520 --> 0:08:59.719 We reached out to her. 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:03.080 She said, oh, I'll do whatever you need. But when 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:07.040 this podcast in the show was actually coming to fruition 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:10.360 to panic, she's not going to be part of that. 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:14.920 She's not going to discuss in a healthy way. For years, 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:16.959 every time it would come up, she would roll her 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:20.840 eyes and be like some of my aunts and uncle 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:25.480 handled it with drug abuse addiction, and some are mentally 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:28.200 not stable. Then you have some that just felt like, Hey, 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:30.600 as far away as I can get from everything and 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:32.640 as much money as I can make, and then I 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:35.520 will be successful. And it doesn't exist. But there's a 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.120 rule to that, and that rule is we don't ever 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:40.560 talk about it because you can't go there. 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:45.760 And Tracy Rickroll and her aunt were clearly not aligned 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:49.360 on the unfinished business Tracy Rokel talked about in our 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:50.640 last episode. 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:53.599 She would say, you know, it's not your responsibility to 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:56.520 worry about William David Corn. It's not your responsibility to 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.360 worry about Nancy Tageer. You know, get over it, just 0:09:59.440 --> 0:09:59.880 let it go. 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:04.720 Nancy Tegeter was Jan's first wife, and William David Korn 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:08.080 was the police officer that Tracy Riquel believes may have 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:15.120 been murdered by Jam. Here's an email we got from 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:20.240 a listener. This is really fascinating. So this listener says, 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:23.280 I'm not done with the series, so maybe this question 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:26.959 is premature, But what's the deal with Ted Golder? Wasn't 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:30.439 Matthew his biological son? I thought that was the reason 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:33.240 Jan didn't care about him? So where was he during 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:36.320 the trial when Matthew died? Wouldn't you have been at 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:40.120 the hospital and the funeral. He's never mentioned except when 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:43.760 Tracy Riquel did the paternity test. Wouldn't he want to 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:47.120 put Jan Away for killing his kid. You know, we've 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:51.319 all had that question. That's a really good question. Let's 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:54.920 go back to episode four where Tracy Riquel first told 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:57.600 us about meeting Ted Golder as an adult. 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:02.480 He really wanted to know if I was his daughter. 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:06.640 He asked if I would do a paternity test, which 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:10.080 I sure now while we were waiting for the results 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:15.160 to come back, and we talked daily, just about things 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:19.160 and life and people, and it was a nice thing. 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:23.839 The paternity test came back and he called and he said, 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:29.080 you're not my daughter. And he said, you know what, 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:31.480 you're a really nice woman. I wish the best for you, 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:33.640 but I don't want anything else to do with you. 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.520 You're not my child. And I was in I never 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:37.320 heard from him again. 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:44.320 But wasn't he upset about Matthew's death? Did he ever 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:45.839 say anything to you about it? 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:49.160 I mean the only thing he said was he always 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:49.959 thought he did it too. 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:53.440 That's really something because I think this listener is right. 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:57.880 I mean, you'd think that he would be really happy 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:01.240 about this and really angry about his son's death. 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.640 You'd think you would. Yeah, maybe it all had to 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:08.480 do with people were really afraid of Jan that is 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:12.560 purely speculation because I just don't have any supporting information 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:12.960 for that. 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:19.200 Do you want to talk at all about your illness? 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:19.720 Yeah? 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:20.080 Sure. 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:27.240 I was diagnosed with systemic lupus in the early nineties, 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:31.760 and it suspected that I've had my entire life. You know, 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:35.520 you just don't have flares as often when you're young. 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:40.760 It became really really severe two thousand, two thousand and one, 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:44.720 and it kind of stayed that way. I can function 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:48.840 for the most part, like you know, my body functions 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:50.800 as far as like everything moves the way it's supposed 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.240 to be, with the exception of my hands. I mean, 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:56.280 but it is really funny. You know. My daughter has 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:58.400 a friend who the first time I met her, she 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:00.800 said later on to Goldie her mother, how does she 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:04.000 do anything? Doesn't she needs hired help? And Goldie was like, 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:06.880 what are you talking about? And she was like, she 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:09.880 can't well how she functioned, And Goldie was like, Oh, 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:11.920 don't worry, my mom's got a trick for everything, which 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:15.720 is true. I still do pretty much everything I want 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:18.320 to do. It's just might take me three hours to 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:20.600 prep dinner where it would take everybody else a half hour. 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:24.680 But I'm getting it done. 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:28.960 You've heard a lot of Tracy Riquel's incredible story. It 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:31.600 was important to end this series with the people who 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:35.280 have really been Tercy Rikell's strength, support and focus of 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:38.400 her life. Her husband and her children. 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:41.840 Yeah two Goldie Hunter. Goldie's the oldest. 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:43.680 Her husband is bart. 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:48.680 I hadn't asked her to marry me yet, but she 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:52.760 sat me down and she said, I've got some important 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:57.480 things to tell you about me. She went through and 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:02.040 explained some of her child history and the challenges that 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:05.440 she's been through. The most important thing really wasn't so 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:08.800 much in what she was telling me the experiences she's had, 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:11.000 except that the toll that it had taken on her. 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:14.880 She wanted to make sure that I was informed, like, hey, 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:17.120 you know, there's still things that I have to work 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:19.840 through and will continue to be things to work through. 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:25.040 When she told me these things, I was just flabbergasted, 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.480 but it made sense to me in a way. She 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:32.160 is such a strong person, and only a strong person 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:34.200 could have gone through these things and be the type 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:35.400 of person that she is today. 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:39.080 I've known Tracy Raquel for a few years now, and 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:42.720 I can say that she is an innately maternal person. 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:46.560 Caring and supportive. It's just who she is growing up, 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:50.720 taking care of herself and others simply reinforced this. But 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:54.120 becoming a mother without having any kind of example to 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:56.280 follow presented new challenges. 0:14:56.680 --> 0:15:02.240 Here's Goldie definitely say my mom is a helicopter parent. 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:06.200 She was always on top of everything we did or 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:08.280 where we were at, where we were allowed to go. 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:14.240 I was not prepared for the worry, the concern. Everything 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:16.480 was a potential disaster for me. 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:19.560 An expert will tell you that a child in Tracy 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:23.560 Rickill's situation will either grow up to repeat the learned 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:26.640 behavior or go in the complete opposite direction. 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:30.120 You know, Given my childhood, everything was just she's going 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:31.840 to get hurt, she's going to get lost, she's going 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:33.680 to fall, she's going to break, you know anything. 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:36.080 And there was times where it was very frustrating and 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:37.680 I didn't understand as a child. 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:39.600 I couldn't even go to the gym and leave her 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:44.320 in the gym daycare because someone was not nice to 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:48.400 her one time. And to me everything was just a catastrophe. 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:51.800 But to her husband and kids, carrying that weight turn 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.640 Tracy Riquel into a fully present and aware parent. 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:03.440 My wife's experiences has made her a loving mother, one 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:07.120 that has attention to detail, that is always aware of 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:11.440 like how the children are feeling, and will always always 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:12.720 be there for them. 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:16.200 She gave us love because she didn't want to be 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:17.960 what her parents were. 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:21.400 I think that there's a level of fear too. They're 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:23.600 never going to be out of her sight, which, in 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.120 my mind, this can't be a bad thing. Those kids 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:26.960 are her life. 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:29.120 It's hard to think that she grew up that way, 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.080 to go through that kind of abuse and grow up 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:34.240 living and thinking that you were the cause of your 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:37.320 brother's death or you did it, or have people blaming her, 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:41.880 especially to hide the fact that somebody else like Jano 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:44.120 is a murderer, you know, and a bad person. 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:44.760 You know. 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:47.320 To practice them like that as her own mother, to 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:51.320 not protect her child is horrifying because as an adult 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:53.240 she's the opposite. 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:53.520 You know. 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.200 She loves us so much and can never imagine hurting us. 0:16:56.640 --> 0:17:00.440 A few years after Goldie was born, Trocy Raquel welcomed 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:02.760 her second child, and Hire was born. 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:04.680 I was twenty seven. 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:12.520 My mother was a bit overprotective, but seeing where she 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:13.720 came from, it made sense. 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:14.800 That's hunter. 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:18.280 I don't know if there's ever a specific moment where 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:21.040 I became aware of my mother's childhood. I think it 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.880 was just something that we knew from, you know, snippets 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:27.159 of different stories that she might have told or something. 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:30.120 First of all, I had to acknowledge my own abuse 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:32.600 and then get to a place where I'm comfortable to 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:34.600 talk about that with my children. 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:38.800 Oh, it's horrifying. I've seen photos of my mom where, 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:41.719 you know, she's covered in bruises, you know, on her 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:44.240 arms and her legs, and she's two or three years old. 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:47.439 I meet people every day of my life, oh I 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.080 was abused or I had a rough childhood. 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:50.680 I had. 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:53.080 This happened to me, not once if I ever heard 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:54.760 my mom use that as an excuse. 0:17:55.040 --> 0:18:06.119 There was a lot of anger, sadness. Sorry, give me 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:10.400 one second to compose myself. The fact that she had 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:15.160 to go through that, it is it's hard to think about. 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:19.199 I mean, I love my mom, but death and the 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:21.920 fact that she ended up in a good place and 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:25.360 hunted down justice, fought for justice is that's I guess 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:27.520 the best emotion I can bring out of that is 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.399 pride that she ended up in a good spot. 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:37.439 They both have had their sweet moments showing love and 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:38.240 respect for me. 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:41.320 When it comes to Matthew, I light a candle on 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:45.240 his birthday, it's just become, I guess, a ritual in 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:45.640 my life. 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:47.119 You know. 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:50.320 He didn't get to be here very long, so if anything, 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:51.880 at least people can remember him. 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:55.640 Hunter was in the fifth grade and he had a 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:58.600 fifth grade teacher who said, you have to do a 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:04.200 report on a famous person. What is the definition of famous. Well, 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:06.879 they had to have been in the news for fifteen minutes. 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:09.960 And so Hunter did his report on me and my 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:17.080 case with Matthew. And Hunter's teacher was from Atlanta and 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:21.040 was in Atlanta when the case happened. And so Hunter's 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:22.680 up there and he didn't say this is my mom. 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:25.720 He's just doing this story about this person, you know. 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:29.119 And the teacher's like, I know this, you know. And 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:30.920 then at the end Hunter says, and oh, by the way, 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:32.520 it's my mom, you know what I mean. And then 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:37.400 they're like, oh what. So I thought that was really sweet. 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:42.439 My whole life, my mom had always said Matthew was 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:47.560 our guardian angel. There were times in my life where 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:52.399 there was darkness or something bad could have happened or 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:55.680 should have happened, and something, maybe it was an angel, 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:57.840 was like a good feeling, and maybe it was him, 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:00.240 you know, looking over us. To the point that I 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:03.919 tattooed his name on my shoulder because I you know, 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:05.679 I never met him, but I did feel like he 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:07.879 was a big part of my life and watching over me. 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:17.360 Terracy re Kills concern for her baby brother, Matthew spilled 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:20.800 over into other areas of her life. 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:24.119 My mother was very much give the shirt off your 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:27.240 back for another person. That's always who she's been. She'll 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:30.159 probably live the rest of her life like that. A 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:35.640 lot of who I am stems from her ideals, her 0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:40.199 moral code. She inspired me from a young age. She 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:43.240 taught me how a man should be and how a 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:45.480 man should treat a woman, you know, being a good 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:47.600 human being, looking out for others. 0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:50.960 When Hunter was in the second grade, he would take 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:54.399 a snack to school and then he would come home 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:57.479 and he would be hungry. And then the next day 0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:01.119 he would say, Mom, I need three stacks. I don't understand. 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:05.440 And he was like, Joey and Sarah and Michelle don't 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:07.560 have snacks, and so and so and so and so 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:11.360 don't have lunch. So I need snat so you would 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:13.400 just give it all away. And that was just him. 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:16.120 The one thing that still sticks with me to this day. 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:19.520 I guess, like you could say her motto, if you 0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:24.520 see a problem and you don't do anything about it, 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:25.840 you're part of that problem. 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:28.600 There was a time when I was a child, we 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:32.000 lived in not a great neighborhood. I remember there was 0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:35.000 a group of people that were going to assault a man, 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:38.320 and I do remember my mom going outside and had 0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:40.760 the police on the phone. It was a very dangerous situation, 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:43.280 and nobody else wanted to help. And she was brave 0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:45.679 and calling and not afraid. And she said they had 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:47.600 crowbars and things like that. She very well could have 0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:50.280 been hurt in that moment, and she had no fear, 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:51.680 no fear. 0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:55.280 She has come a long way in her life, and 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:58.560 I think that she's very modest. She downplays a lot 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:00.959 of things. I think that's the type of person she is. 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:03.720 She's gotten to a place now for she's very mindful 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:04.960 and tries to think of others. 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:07.480 It has only been in the past three or four 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:13.320 years that I realize you've got to heal, and the 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:19.240 healing part sometimes is the most terrifying thing. But it's 0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:22.800 the risk because in order to go through that, you 0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:25.680 are gonna fall apart and people are not going to 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:27.680 stand by you. And there's people who are going to say, 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:30.359 oh my gosh, get over, I'm sick of here. And 0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:33.840 this shame is this huge thing that's like a part 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:36.280 of everything. Well, I got to get rid of my 0:22:36.320 --> 0:22:36.760 own shame. 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:41.320 The bottom line is anytime that Raca Raquel has a 0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:45.520 moment of guilt, the first thing I asked is what 0:22:45.680 --> 0:22:48.399 is it that you feel guilty for? You were the 0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:49.520