WEBVTT - STBYM Live: Prime Directives & Planetary Contamination 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:06.040 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from housetop work 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:16.040 dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:18.960 My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:22.599 so we recorded a special live edition of the podcast 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:26.000 last week at Star Trek Mission, New York, and all 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:29.200 three of us, Robert, Christian and I up in a 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:33.199 conference room full of Star Trek Conference attendees. Yeah it was. 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:35.720 It was really great. Hopefully some of the folks who 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.159 were there in person are listening now, and if so, 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:40.159 I just want to thank you once more for being 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:42.800 a fabulous audience. Everyone seemed to really get into the topical. 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:46.360 We had some fun chatting with folks after the show. Absolutely, So, 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:50.240 without further ado, here is our live episode of Stuff 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:54.560 to Blow Your Mind. Robert, you've got to start us 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:58.000 Star Trek history. Okay, So um, when we're not going 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:01.240 to pretend to be like the the the perfect Star 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:04.920 Trek fans. Our knowledge is not perfect. But I certainly 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:07.040 have a very warm place in my heart for Star 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:10.680 Trek the Next Generation, especially because I grew up watching 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:13.800 it every evening in syndication at nine pm. It was 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:17.119 my my go to I would escape from the horrors 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:19.800 of Junior High and just just pour myself into the 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:23.600 hollow deck of Star Trek. Yeah, for me, I think 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:25.880 deep Space and nine was when I really dove in 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:28.080 deep But I was talking to these guys the other day. 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:31.000 Does anybody remember the Cheerios commercial right before The Next 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:34.000 Generation came out where you they offered like if you 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:35.760 cut out on the back of the box, you could 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:39.520 be like an extra in the Next Generation. That was like, 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:42.360 I was like five, maybe six years old, and that's 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:47.200 how we got Wesley Crusher. That glued right in my kid. 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:49.280 But yeah, I didn't. I guess I didn't make it. 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:52.640 I didn't make the cut. I am far less trek 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:56.240 ucated than these two, even I have to admit to 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:58.960 the room. I I love like the even numbered movies, 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:01.680 as they say. And I've watched some highlight episodes from 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.720 the original series, like a Balance of Terror and what's 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:07.160 the one where they Kirk and Spocko back in time 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:09.720 and they wear these like cool nineteen thirties suits and 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:14.600 some lady gets hit by a car. It Yeah, that 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:17.480 was a good one. Uh. Then, Also, I watched the 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:20.639 first season of Next Generation, and I really loved the 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:25.320 planets that looked like a nineteen nineties like family portrait 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:28.880 photo studio filled with potted trees. It was pretty cool. 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:32.639 So let's talk a little bit about the Prime directive 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:35.480 because it while we are by no means experts on 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:38.280 the Prime Directive, it does relate quite a bit to 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:40.720 the real world science that we're gonna be talking about. Yeah, 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:42.480 and and uh, I mentioned we don't we don't have 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:44.560 to tell you guys what the Prime directive is. You know, 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:48.359 it is, um, it's the philosophy of the federation. Right, 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.320 it is that it's an anti colonialist for that matter 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:55.799 of anti Vietnam War ethos the policy of of non interference. 0:02:55.960 --> 0:03:00.680 Don't mess around with the natural progression or demise of 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:03.959 of life on a given world. Right is it, don't 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:07.040 get involved in it's it's cultural ascension. Let it, let 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:09.639 it happen. Yeah. And one of the major questions that's 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:13.800 going to be important to talking about planetary contamination later 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:18.240 that we had was is observing mere mere early observing 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:21.160 a violation of the Prime Directive? And from what I 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:25.200 could tell, it seems like no, Although it seems like, uh, 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:27.200 there's there's quite a bit of instances the one that 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:29.480 I remember the most is in Star Trek Insurrection with 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:31.519 you know, when Data is running around in the invisible 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.040 suit and goes crazy and rips his mask off and 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:36.600 everybody just sees a floating Brent Spiner head. This is 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:39.880 the one where f Murray Abraham played Allain. Yes, yeah, yeah, 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:43.680 so so that clearly violated the observing thing. Uh. And 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:45.760 then apparently I haven't seen this one, but there's a 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:49.920 next generation episode called Who Watches the Watchers where Ryker 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:52.839 and Troy put on makeup so they look like they're 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:55.320 members of this indigenous race so they can observe what's 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:59.360 going on there. Uh, we're not quite there yet. Uh, 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:03.680 but but it seems like observing is okay, right, Yeah, 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:06.400 I mean as long as, of course you're not seen observing. 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:09.760 That's kind of the primatologist's view on it, right. You 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:12.880 you want to be able to observe, uh, these creatures 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:16.040 in their natural habitat. But if they see you, then 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:19.920 you you've already disrupted everything. And obviously nothing disrupts a 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:24.640 would disrupt a culture's ascension, of a planetary culture's attention 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:27.200 more than seeing a starship suddenly appear in the sky. Yeah, 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:30.279 exactly right. Oh yeah, that's another good example of that. 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:32.960 We'll talk about later when we get into cargo cults 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:36.120 is seen in a Star Trek into Darkness of course 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:38.160 at the beginning where they see the enterprise and then 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:40.799 they start sort of worshiping it by drawing the images 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:43.960 of it in the sand. Uh So, I can actually 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:45.960 think of worse if they piped in some like Van 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:49.000 Halen singles. I could see that that could go beyond 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:50.800 the starship. But you know, one of the things it 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:54.760 would be Beastie Boys given uh that that particular version 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:59.280 of multi Yeah. Uh so. Yeah. One of the things 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:01.640 about the prime to active as throughout the show, I 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:04.919 mean even a a a Star Trek light viewer like 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.119 me can observe is that it's not a rule that's 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:11.000 simply followed, but it's something that is often debated. People 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:13.359 are weighing the pros and cons uh that. You know, 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:15.359 they often want to have a conversation about, well, should 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:19.239 we follow the non intervention you know, guidelines, or should 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:21.720 we step into help where we can, And a lot 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:23.960 of times it's sort of like the following the lawful 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:27.560 path versus following the good path. Yeah, it reminds me 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:30.640 a lot too of the journalists Um Connundiam at times 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:32.360 like if I'm I'm not gonna observe, I'm gonna stand 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:34.200 back and take this photo, or do I jump in 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:36.799 and help in a situation where help is required. Yeah, 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:40.880 So this leads us into the let's just break down 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.479 the very beginning or science that we're gonna talk about today. 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:48.880 What's the difference between planetary protection and planetary contamination. Well, 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:51.880 protection is a term that we give to our goal 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.560 to protect other celestial bodies. Actually, you know, we're talking 0:05:55.600 --> 0:06:00.000 about planets, moons, comets, or asteroids here. Uh. We don't 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.000 want to contaminate them with life from here on Earth 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:06.320 as we're going throughout the galaxy, mainly the Solar System 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:11.760 right now and interacting with them. That's what's called forward contamination, 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.719 US contaminating other celestial bodies. And and later in this 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:18.320 presentation we will give you some examples where that has 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:22.919 already happened unfortunately. Uh, But we also want to protect Earth, 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:26.120 right We don't want a scenario like the Andromeda Strain 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:28.960 to happen. So we want to make sure that Earth 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:32.240 is protected from possible life forms that may have returned 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:37.840 from extraterrestrial samples. Anybody here familiar with the Osiris REX 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:40.520 mission that's taking off the next couple of I think 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:43.359 it's like in the next month, right UH, NASA is 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:47.960 sending a spacecraft called Ocyrus REX to the asteroid Baynu, 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.360 and the goal is to go to Baynu. UH scoop 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:53.920 a piece of dirt off of Baynu, put it into 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:56.280 a capsule, and then bring it back to Earth so 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:59.680 that we can study it. UH mainly about so that 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:01.960 they can get some ideas about the origin of life. 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:06.600 They think Baynu has got some particularly carbon rich minerals 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:08.560 in it that might give us some some kind of 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:13.280 history to the universe. So in that case, we really 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:16.240 don't want there to be I don't know, like space 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:18.880 worms on it that are affect everybody and turn us 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:21.640 into zombies or something. So in the unlikely scenario that 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:24.840 this UH, this return the soil returned from the asteroid 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:27.040 has some kind of microbe in it that could infect 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:29.440 our bodies. What if they bring it back and it 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:33.880 escapes from contamination there that received the retrieval areas. What 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.680 if it explodes in the atmosphere upon re entry and 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:39.640 then scatters all over the place. They're not very worried 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:43.000 about that with the Osiris REX mission because they're they're 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:45.840 not very good scientific reasons for thinking you're likely to 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:49.679 encounter life on an asteroid, and asteroids just a death zone. 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.560 It's out in the middle of space. It's bombarded I radiation, 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:56.280 micro meteoroid impacts, and there's just it's not a friendly 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:58.960 place to live. But there are some other places in 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.200 the Solar System that we do think are are much 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:05.160 more likely to be friendly to life. Yeah, probably the 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:08.160 bathrooms here at the jab At Center are friendly to life, 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:11.520 I would imagine. Uh No, But so we're talking about 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:16.120 backward contamination when we're talking about these asteroids bringing samples back. 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:18.960 In particular, NASA is worried about Mars. I don't know 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:20.120 if any of you have been down to the show 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.720 floor yet, but they have a really cool exhibit about 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.240 their plans for Mars missions. And if you talk to 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:28.440 some of the NASA volunteers that are down there, uh, 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:31.640 they know all about backward contamination and what their policies 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:33.960 are concerning this. We'll talk a little bit about today, 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:37.280 but we're not the experts, right. But then also you 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:41.160 might be asking so The reason for preventing backward contamination 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:43.400 is obvious. We don't want to get infected with space 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:45.840 germs and I'll die. Well, this is the selfish side 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:48.080 of it, right, I mean, we know, like, whatever you 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:50.240 get into out there, don't bring it back home, don't 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:54.200 not don't bring it back and then the potentially knows 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:57.320 of our environment. Right. But the motivations for preventing the 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:00.280 contamination of other bodies in the Solar System is maybe 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:04.320 less obvious, Like why would you care if a probe 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:08.520 that you send to Mars or Saturn's moon Titan has 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:11.360 microbes living on it? I mean, who cares? They're probably 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:13.600 gonna die anyway, What does it matter? Well, there are 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.360 several reasons we want to prevent that. One is protecting 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:20.400 science objectives. Uh So, if we're going to Titan or 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:22.760 to Mars to try to figure out if there is 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:25.719 microbial life living in the soil there, we don't want 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:28.240 to take contaminants with it that are going to make 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:31.440 it impossible for us to do that scientific research. I mean, 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:33.920 it's like visiting a crime scene, right, You don't want 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:36.720 somebody to go in and leave their fingerprints or their 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:38.960 genetic material all over the place because we need to 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:41.240 get down to who has had access to it. Instance, 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:44.280 the case with with a foreign body. It would be 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:48.480 like if detectives investigating a crime scene couldn't investigate it 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:51.360 very easily without having all the prime suspects come in 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:55.760 and bleed everywhere, um exactly. But but it's difficult. But 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:58.600 then there are also other potential concerns. One is the 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:03.560 protection of in digenous life. So introducing microbial life forms 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:06.720 to a new environment very often kills what's already there. 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:09.720 And it's quite possible that if there are life forms 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:13.200 on Titan or on Enceladus Europa, Mars, and we bring 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:16.040 our own microbes there, there could be a battle of 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:20.240 the bacteria and our bacteria might win. Again, that's very 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:23.080 bad obviously for those bacteria. That you could have a 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:26.400 debate about whether that ethically matters or not, you know, 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:28.760 should we care about those bacteria, But it certainly matters 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:30.720 for the science. We we want to be able to 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:32.280 know if they're there, and so we don't want to 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:35.280 kill them all. And then a final reason is that 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:39.840 we can disturb natural environments by introducing life forms just 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:44.600 like bacteria here on Earth and and uh small organisms 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:48.280 have geoengineered the Earth. You know, they've changed our atmospheric composition. 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.280 We don't want to potentially do that to other planets 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:54.280 in the Solar System by accident. So let's give you 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:56.920 like a like a real world analogy that will sort 0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:59.200 of hopefully bring it all together. Right, Like, whenever you 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:03.080 travel abroad with an animal here and on Earth, right, 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.360 you usually have to have documents of some sort that 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.080 they have their vaccinations. Right, So it's a similar sort 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:13.240 of situation. You don't you would sometimes quarantine an animal 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:17.040 in those situations you also don't want to, well you do. 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:20.960 You have to declare agricultural items when you come into 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:23.360 and out of certain countries, right, So how many people 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:29.120 here have been through customs before? That's supposed to It's fun, right, 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:32.600 I mean, So like the example that we're gonna use 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:35.520 here is like what if we brought a watermelon up 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:38.880 here from Florida and it's just filled with mosquitoes that 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:42.160 are infected with the Zeke virus. Right, But that probably 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:45.360 wouldn't be a great example, uh because you guys would 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:49.800 hate that, But that would be forward contamination. Yeah, I mean, 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:52.560 you can find plenty of examples just by thinking of 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:56.199 all the missteps that we've we've taken in our in 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:58.400 our in our you know, recent history here on ourth 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:04.440 spreading invasive species across the planet and exactly stabilizing natural environments. 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:10.679 The carp car carp fish are notorious invasive species here 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:13.920 in America. Yeah, we have a podcast about that, by 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:15.600 the way, you can look it up. It's about jumping 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:18.120 fish in the rivers of the Midwest. They jump out 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:21.920 of the water and smash people's facebones. They do pretty cool. Joe, 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:25.200 is there any law? Is there anything that's like keeping 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:27.480 us from doing this? Like why can't I just build 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.400 my own rocket and shoot a zeke a mosquito and 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.559 outer space? That is a good question. So there actually 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:36.760 are guidelines for how you're supposed to behave in space. 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.959 In fact, there are tons of different organizations treaties that 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:43.840 put space law on space guidelines into place. Where's the 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:46.120 boundary between law and guidelines, I don't know a lot 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.280 of times we haven't tested that boundary, So we don't 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:51.400 know exactly what would happen if you broke certain guidelines, 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:55.400 but we have them. Uh, for example, what prevents Spain 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:59.000 from flying to Europa? Here? This is Jupiter's moon Europa. 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:02.360 It's believe that it could possibly contain life because it's 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:05.320 got an icy crust with liquid oceans underneath it. There 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:07.840 could be something living in that water. What prevents Spain 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:11.880 from flying a rocket to Europa, sticking a flag down 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:14.800 in the ice and saying, I declare Europa for Spain, 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:19.880 it is Spanish territory. Now, well, fortunately we have the 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:23.240 UN Outer Space Treaty, and all signatories and parties of 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:27.160 the treaty agree that, for example, you can't go claim 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.679 the Moon for your country. It doesn't belong to you. 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:33.120 It's the common heritage of all mankind and you can 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:36.440 access it equally. But there are other things that are 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:39.040 entailed by this treaty as well, right, Yeah, Well it 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:42.040 was developed in nineteen sixty seven. It was really you know, 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:43.960 in the middle of the Cold War, but they managed 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:46.040 to get the U S, the Soviet Union, the UK 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:48.000 and a couple of other countries to sit down and 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:50.680 you know, agree to this at the United Nations to 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:55.319 prohibit mainly countries from placing nuclear arms or other w 0:13:55.679 --> 0:14:00.360 m D weapons of mass instructions UH destructions de duction 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:03.959 UH in outer space. So that was mainly why this 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:08.719 was put together. But it also holds all nations accountable 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:12.760 for whatever their various actions are in outer space according 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:15.800 to international law, so that's important. It does kind of 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:19.120 underlie one of the problems with any of this kind 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:22.320 of legislation is they always emerged from the time and 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:24.960 in which they're rolled out. They speak to very specific 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:29.440 near future concerns, and when it gets to the you know, 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:33.280 the more far future concerns, Uh, they don't really grapple 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:35.800 with them with with with a degree of detail that 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:38.560 might be necessary. Yeah, that's the thing of this And um, 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:41.160 there were arguments not like a year or two after 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:44.920 it had first been written that it was already either 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:48.760 too stringent or not stringent enough, and we're still seeing 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:52.080 arguments like that today, decades later. So a lot of 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.440 people argue the Outer Space Treaty is out of date 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:57.720 and needs to be updated. But in any case, how 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:00.000 it relates exactly to the topic we're talking about today 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.680 is that Article nine of the U and Outer Space 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:06.120 Treaty says that all parties to the treaty have to 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:10.280 avoid harmful contamination of the Moon and other celestial bodies, 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.040 and they also have to avoid adverse changes in the 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:17.000 environment of Earth resulting from the introduction of extraterrestrial matter. 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:20.840 So that's pretty vague, right it It basically just says, 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:24.440 don't pollute outer space with our microbes and don't bring 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:28.080 anything you find out there back here that could kill us. Uh. 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:31.120 So how's it gives to work? Like, so Spain's gonna 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:33.480 go plant their flag on Europa? Right, So how does 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.240 that work? Can can Spain just do that on their own? 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:39.760 They can't do it at all? What are you talking about? Exactly? 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:42.640 So Spain is supposed to go to all the other 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:45.800 international bodies and say, hey, we're about the send that 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.000 every I think everybody be pretty astonished if they did that. 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:50.720 But they they're gonna We're gonna send a flag up 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:52.920 to Europa. Right. They're supposed to tell everybody what their 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.600 plans are, what their mision, mission parameters are, and what 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:59.400 kind of regulations they have in place. Uh. Now that 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:04.200 holds for international bodies like nation states, It doesn't necessarily 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:07.120 hold for commercial entities. And we were talking about that 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:10.200 a little bit later. So for instance, UM, I'm sure 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.880 many of you have heard that the SpaceX rocket exploded 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.200 yesterday on the platform, right, Um, what if it didn't 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:19.680 explode on the platform. What if it exploded in orbit, 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:24.200 uh and it contained something? Yeah? Or what if it 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:27.440 was an orbit or orbiting Mars and it exploded there 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:30.360 and showered Mars with whatever was inside it. Or it 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.760 was returning from an asteroid orbiting Earth and exploded in 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:37.880 the atmosphere. So okay, so we've got this this Outer 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:41.120 Space Treaty from the United Nations. Okay, that's about as 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:44.520 close to the federation as we have right now. Um, well, 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:47.720 what do we do then for these guidelines? Like who 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:50.840 who cooks up these guidelines? Who decides between all these 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:54.320 various space agencies all over the planet right now? What? 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:58.160 How how do we prevent backward or forward contamination? Well? Yeah, 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:01.360 so the U entreaty gives us the vague objectives. The 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:05.200 actual Uh, some more specifics I guess come from what's 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:09.000 known as the Coast Bar Planetary Protection Policy. Yeah. So 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:12.600 Coast BAR stands for the Committee on Space Research. It's 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:15.920 part of the International Council of Science. So it's an 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:19.480 international body, but it's it's mainly like a committee, uh 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:23.840 that has a panel within it. It's a little arcane here, Uh. 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:28.000 But the planet, the panel focuses on planetary protection. Now, 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:31.280 keep in mind the policies that Coast Bar puts out 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:34.040 are not legally binding in any way. It's just a 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:39.080 set of guidelines on contamination that nations should consider. And 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:41.720 they've got five categories that they look at, uh and 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:47.480 there for various possibilities. There's flybys, orbiters, landers, probes, non 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:50.200 earth returns, and then Earth returns and those are the 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:52.320 ones that were the most worried about because they're the 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:55.600 most likely to have backward contamination involved. Alright, we're gonna 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:57.520 take a quick break and when we come back, more 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:00.000 of this special live episode of stuff to blow your mind. 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.280 And we're back. Okay, Well, maybe we should transition to 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:13.240 another question, which is why should we even worry about this? 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:17.000 I mean, why tax dollars going to this? Yeah, well 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:20.480 it's an it's an interesting question because we look at 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.320 all this this legislation and sort of pseudo legislation in 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:27.520 some some cases where it really paints biocontamination up as 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:30.280 this is kind of like the ultimate sin, you know, 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.240 I mean, breaking the prime directive. Really, but what if 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:36.320 it's less of sin and more just the way things 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:38.400 work in the universe. What if it's a cosmic standard, 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:41.199 and in that it would line up rather nicely with 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.760 pan spermia hypothesis. And uh, the idea that life exists 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:49.199 throughout the universe. It spread from place to place by meteorites, asteroids, comets, 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:53.920 planetary fragments, and yes, even spaceships carrying hearty extreme of 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.480 file microbes. And there are a few different variants of 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:01.360 pan spermia um that play in this. Uh. The first 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:03.760 one I'm gonna mention he real quick is radio pan 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:08.200 spermia ambular podcasts. Right radio radio pant spermia. Yeah, you 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:09.800 can listen to it. I think it's a's out of 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:13.080 a w N y C. But this is the dust 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:15.359 in the wind hypothesis. Yeah, yeah, And this is pretty 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:18.040 cool because there's no rocks, no spaceships, the ideas that 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:22.080 the micro organisms may live in space driven by radiation 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:25.640 pressure away from distant distant stars. So it's very if 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:27.919 we have any lovecraft readers in the and the audience 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:30.480 is very love crafty and feeling like something like the 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:36.639 Mego creatures flying across the void of exhalation of cosmic horror, 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:40.600 just floating free. Fortunately for for any of you who 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:44.080 are not fans of cosmic hard drifting in UM. Most 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:46.919 of what we know about the lethal nature of space 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:50.240 radiation tends to rule this one out. Then then there's 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:52.679 a litho pan spermia, and this is the one that 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:55.520 most of the attention is revolving around. That's the idea 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:58.960 you of rocks, they go from one planet to another um, 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:02.399 and it jives far better with our understanding of life. 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:05.560 Microbes just have to be able to survive ejection from 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:09.159 their planet, survival through the radiation radiations wet void, and 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:13.679 then atmospheric reentry into planet b um. Yeah. And this 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:17.200 this is actually something that uh, some nations on Earth 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:19.680 they're trying to test the hypothesis of we'll talk about 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:22.160 a little bit later. That's one of the instances where 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:25.120 we may have been responsible for forward contamination right there. 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:28.679 There's even a you know, hypothesis that life traveled throughout 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:31.679 our own solar system, that life on Earth might have 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:35.600 originated on Mars exogenesen. Then there's some kind of major 0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:39.200 impact that spread it from one planet to another. Again, 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:41.119 this is not something we know or that they're strong 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:44.680 evidence for us. Is very interesting possibility. Now as as 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:48.640 as far as panspermia goes. Obviously, you have two possible 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:51.320 variants here on top of this. There's accidental and then 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:54.560 there is directed Accidental is that the idea that the 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:57.640 Spanish go to Europa and they leave some trash. They're right, 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:01.680 that we accidentally eat life on the world. The other 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:06.119 is directed pants spermia. And this is the stuff of Prometheus. 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:08.560 This is the stuff of the founders and track right, 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:12.040 it means the deliberate seating of worlds. Uh. And it 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:14.560 comes up both in terms of near future concerns. We 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:18.120 don't want to accidentally see the world with life, according 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.360 to some, But then there are those who advocate, well, yeah, 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:23.240 we we should see dead worlds. Why not? I mean, 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:25.800 life is kind of what we're all about. Uh, that's 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:28.480 that's kind of our thing here on Earth. Why shouldn't 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:32.840 we want to see this flourish elsewhere in the universe. So, Okay, 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:35.560 we've we've thrown a lot of theory at you all 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:37.880 of a sudden, all this pant spermia stuff. But let's 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:41.120 get down to some concrete examples. Where has this happened 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:45.800 before in our recent past? Well, arguably you mean fermia 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:48.800