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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production

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Speaker 1: of My Heart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Tod

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Speaker 1: and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.

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Speaker 1: This week marked Indigenous People's Day, a data honor and

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Speaker 1: commemorate Native people and an opportunity to re examine having

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Speaker 1: a national holiday celebrating Christopher Columbus, a murderer. It's catching on,

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Speaker 1: with seven states officially celebrating Indigenous People's Day and more

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Speaker 1: commemorating the day via proclamations, and it's really representative of

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Speaker 1: how a shift in cultural attitudes can lead to meaningful,

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Speaker 1: widespread cultural shift. Which brings me to my city's football

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Speaker 1: team name. For as long as I can remember, Washington

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Speaker 1: d c S professional football team has been a slur

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Speaker 1: and Native activists have been trying to do something about

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Speaker 1: it for years. Dan Snyder, the owner of Washington d

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Speaker 1: c S professional football team, announced the team would be

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Speaker 1: changing their name earlier this summer. But don't give Snyder

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Speaker 1: too much credit for doing the right thing. It was

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Speaker 1: only after pressure from corporate and political interests fanned by

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Speaker 1: years of work by activists, that he did anything at all.

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Speaker 1: And we can't talk about the name change without also

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Speaker 1: talking about those Native activists. They're brilliance, their labor and

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Speaker 1: their ability to imagine that things could be different in

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Speaker 1: Jacqueline Keeler created the Not Your Mascot movement on social

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Speaker 1: media to take action against what she calls Native mascutry

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Speaker 1: in sports and all Indigenous cultural misappropriations. My name is

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Speaker 1: Jacqueline Keeler and I am a journalist based out of Portland, Oregon.

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Speaker 1: So what was your upbringing like? Um, Well, I I

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Speaker 1: am naive American and both of my parents are enrolled

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Speaker 1: in different tribes. My father is yankedin Sue Um from

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Speaker 1: South Dakota and my mother is now a hope from Arizona.

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Speaker 1: And and they actually met in Cleveland, Ohio through relocation.

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Speaker 1: And Cleveland, Ohio was a relocation center. Um. And there

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Speaker 1: were a number of these around the country, and they

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Speaker 1: were established starting the nineteen fifties and going into nineteen seventies.

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Speaker 1: Uh too, there was a Congress passed a bill called

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Speaker 1: Termination which was to terminate tribes politically and and to

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Speaker 1: relocate the population to these relocation centers. Sounds quite are

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Speaker 1: really and but but they did create a lot of activism.

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Speaker 1: I mean concentrating. Uh The relocation program was for young

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Speaker 1: people between the ages of eighteen and thirty, and it

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Speaker 1: basically created these large populations of Native young people and

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Speaker 1: they got busy organizing. And I know in Cleveland, that's

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Speaker 1: where the whole fight against Chief wah Who started, and

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Speaker 1: and also the fight with about Columbus Day as well,

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Speaker 1: and so, uh so that's the community I was born into,

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Speaker 1: um an urban young Native community that was we're really

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Speaker 1: starting to organize and address issues and was also a

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Speaker 1: multi h tribal So what kind of impact did that

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Speaker 1: have on you? When you're part of a family that's

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Speaker 1: an outsider family that has a different history and a

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Speaker 1: different perspective to accepted history, you're constantly as a child

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Speaker 1: being challenged and and and constantly being fed and taught

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Speaker 1: or critique of society. And I think I described how

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Speaker 1: I did a piece about Thanksgiving a number of years

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Speaker 1: back and about how my grandma, my mother, before she

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Speaker 1: even sent me to kindergarten, was you know, sat down

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Speaker 1: and told me, you're you're going to hear things about

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Speaker 1: Indian people that aren't true. You know your own family,

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Speaker 1: you know who they are, and you know and I mean,

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Speaker 1: like things that you're gonna hear the Indians are drunks

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Speaker 1: and losers and all this stuff. But you know, you

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Speaker 1: know your your aunt's and uncles have gone to college.

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Speaker 1: You know that these things are not true. You know that,

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Speaker 1: you know. It's sort of you're you're you're prepped before

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Speaker 1: you go. And then you're also told I was told

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Speaker 1: at that age, at five, the history of the taking

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Speaker 1: of the land, and it's it's sort of I described

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Speaker 1: it in one of the pieces I wrote. It sort

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Speaker 1: of takes the wind dotty as even as a five

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Speaker 1: year old, until it puts you immediately um sort of

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Speaker 1: at odds with America because you feel enraged even as

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Speaker 1: a small child, you know uh, and you feel like

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Speaker 1: you want to correct that wrong. And and so I

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Speaker 1: think being raised in a native family really articulates that

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Speaker 1: for you. Yeah, that kind of foundational grounding of this

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Speaker 1: is who you are, this is where you come from,

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Speaker 1: this is this is our culture. You don't have to

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Speaker 1: you might hear things that you aren't true, but you

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Speaker 1: still have that grounding. I feel like family can really

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Speaker 1: be the thing that gives you that. And also, this

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Speaker 1: is who they are, Jaman, this is who they really

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Speaker 1: are right, and I think that's uh that makes you, um,

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Speaker 1: you know that outside er perspective makes you cautious, makes

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Speaker 1: you skeptical. Uh, you know, it makes even as a

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Speaker 1: five year old, it makes you go huh Okay. My

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Speaker 1: mom when I was like in first grade, she was

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Speaker 1: she was like, don't seeing land of the pilgrims pride?

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Speaker 1: Seeing land of the Indians pride? Yeah, that's something you

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Speaker 1: like with your little kid. You're going, you know, to

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Speaker 1: your music class and you have to suddenly saying something

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Speaker 1: different than when all the other kids are singing, and

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Speaker 1: you know you have to because your mom talked to

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And uh, and it's like

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Speaker 1: saying it really softly. But I wasn't going to, you know,

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Speaker 1: disobey my mother on that line. So I was just like,

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Speaker 1: but you know, it was it's you know, it's it's

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Speaker 1: one thing to have these internal family discussions and it's

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Speaker 1: another thing to act um on them when you're the minority,

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Speaker 1: when you're like the only Indian kid in your school

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Speaker 1: and um, and you're learning and being taught things you're

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Speaker 1: but you're in a sense you almost feel like even

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Speaker 1: as a small child, you're being sent in there as

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Speaker 1: a spy, like as a as someone who is going

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Speaker 1: to collect information, who is existing in this other place

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Speaker 1: and and coming back and it's some day you and

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Speaker 1: your family are going to do something with all of

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Speaker 1: that information. Jacquelin went to college at Dartmouth in New Hampshire, which,

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Speaker 1: according to its charter, was originally started as a school

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Speaker 1: to educate Native students in the ways of English life. Today,

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Speaker 1: the school's unofficial mascot maybe Keggy the Keg, but back

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Speaker 1: when she was going there, they were called the Indians.

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Speaker 1: So what was the first time the issue of mascots

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Speaker 1: really hit home for you? So it was until I

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Speaker 1: went to college at the mascot issue really came on

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Speaker 1: my radar. And that was I went to Dartmouth College

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Speaker 1: in New Hampshire and we actually, uh, the Native students

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Speaker 1: who were incomings freshmen were freshman week, were given like

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Speaker 1: extra classes on meeting with other Native alumni, older alumni

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Speaker 1: and um and basically given the story about the Indian mascot.

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Speaker 1: Darmouth used to be the Dartmouth Indians and they had this, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, warrior mascot, more of a sort of Eastern

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Speaker 1: Woodlands looking mascot. And UH and Darmouth was originally founded

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Speaker 1: as as an Indian school right and actually my husband's ancestor,

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Speaker 1: Chief Joseph Bratt, and his other grandfather, William Johnson, they

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Speaker 1: both were young Mohawk boys who attended UH Darmouth before

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Speaker 1: the Revolutionary War. And it was actually Darmouth is located

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Speaker 1: in New Hampshire because the founder, Elda's and Whelock, wanted

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Speaker 1: to place it in a place where it would be

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Speaker 1: accessible to the Iroquois Confederacy in upstate New York, where

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Speaker 1: they could come and and bring their children to be educated.

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Speaker 1: And he wasn't interested in the Indians in Connecticut who

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Speaker 1: who actually one of his students was a Satsumakam was

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Speaker 1: a minister and he was the one who raised the

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Speaker 1: um I think about two thousand pounds of silver to

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Speaker 1: start the college. He went on a speaking tour in

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Speaker 1: Scotland and Uh, but he didn't wanted he didn't want

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Speaker 1: his white mentor did not want to help the Indians

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Speaker 1: in Connecticut because he thought they were not real Indians

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Speaker 1: enough for him, that they were becoming to you know,

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Speaker 1: Christian too. You know, he wanted to go for the

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Speaker 1: more sexy, wild you know, and powerful Iroquois confederacy. So

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Speaker 1: that's why Darmouth is even in New Hampshire. Back when

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Speaker 1: Jaqueline was in college, the issue kind of came down

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Speaker 1: to Native students feeling really uncomfortable by the mascot and

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Speaker 1: white students just really not getting it. One of the

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Speaker 1: things they did, with the support of the alumni, was

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Speaker 1: to basically drive up in a truck freshman week and

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Speaker 1: just throw out free T shirts Darma T shirts with

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Speaker 1: the Darmouth Indian on them to the freshman class. And

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Speaker 1: my roommate wore hers. She was a white, a white

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Speaker 1: woman from uh, Massachusetts, Irish American, and it was that

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Speaker 1: was when I first realized how hard this issue was.

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Speaker 1: Like to me, it was obvious, it was wrong, you know, right,

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Speaker 1: And then she went her actually, uh the just by

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Speaker 1: circumstance to NABA. Host students were on either side of

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Speaker 1: our our our shared dorm room. They had singles and

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Speaker 1: and so so she was surrounded by basically three Navajos

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Speaker 1: and we're all trying to tell her, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is not great, and she just literally could not comprehend,

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Speaker 1: like it was impossible for her to comprehend the issue.

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Speaker 1: And I was all like and she says, well, it's

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Speaker 1: just a free Darma T shirt, that's all, you know,

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Speaker 1: and you know how expensive they are, you know and stuff.

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Speaker 1: And I'm all like, oh god, you know, this is

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Speaker 1: like nothing I've encountered before. Like the level their inability

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Speaker 1: to comprehend the issue was was profound, you know. And uh,

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Speaker 1: and it's at moments like that where you realize your

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Speaker 1: own experiences and where you're coming from is so different,

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Speaker 1: you know, so different, and uh, you just never realized

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Speaker 1: until that moment. Okay, so flash forward, how did they

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Speaker 1: not your math got hashtag come to be? Yeah? So,

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Speaker 1: uh eradicating offensive native maske at tree, which we say, Uh,

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Speaker 1: we created the hashtag not your Mascot and trended it

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Speaker 1: in two thousand fourteen during the Super Bowl and uh.

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Speaker 1: It was started by Native parents from across the country

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Speaker 1: and we met online on Twitter mostly, and uh, we

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Speaker 1: found it hard to sort of organize via Twitter, so

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Speaker 1: we set up a Facebook group and so Eon m

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Speaker 1: you can see it's still a Facebook group, it's it's

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Speaker 1: a private it's sort of a private Facebook group because

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Speaker 1: we found that we kept getting sort of trolled by

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Speaker 1: Matt White mascot supporters, so we had to make it private.

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Speaker 1: Um but uh but yeah, we organized through that and

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Speaker 1: we started creating, um doing what we called Twitter storms.

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Speaker 1: This was in the follow two thousand thirteen, and we

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Speaker 1: were primarily using the hashtag change the mascot, right or

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Speaker 1: change the name, and suddenly right we we uh, we

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Speaker 1: found that that are the mascot had been sort of

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Speaker 1: I don't know it was being used. This sounds really strange,

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Speaker 1: but it was being used by uh by Twitter accounts

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Speaker 1: selling land real estate in India, in the country of India. Hood. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so all our tweets were getting buried by these thousands

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Speaker 1: of tweets advertising real estate in India. Yeah, and we

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Speaker 1: really were very suspicious. We thought it was um, we

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Speaker 1: thought it was Dan Sidner, the owner of the Washington

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Speaker 1: NFL team. I mean, I wouldn't ye hiring all you know,

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Speaker 1: these sorts of troll farms and stuff pretty early, you know,

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Speaker 1: usage of it. I think at that time they are

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Speaker 1: still being called them. What was it? I can't but yeah, so,

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Speaker 1: uh so we were very suspicious. So we we realized

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Speaker 1: we were going into the Super Bowl without a hashtag, right,

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Speaker 1: without a usable one, and and so I mean even

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Speaker 1: with all of us like putting together the organizing the

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Speaker 1: Native community both in the United States and Canada to

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Speaker 1: really tweet our hearts out to try to get this

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Speaker 1: notice uh to this issue. Uh you know it really

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Speaker 1: it wasn't we were still getting buried, right and so

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Speaker 1: um so we thought about it, and she was my friend,

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Speaker 1: she's Cherokee. Um she came up with h She came

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Speaker 1: up with the name not the not your mascot, right,

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Speaker 1: which has been used before. I think you could find

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Speaker 1: signs people using that, you know, back in the sixties

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Speaker 1: and seventies. But we, uh, we were the first ones

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Speaker 1: to really create a hashtag and we checked. We did

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Speaker 1: the whole like we yeah, because people later tried to

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Speaker 1: claim you know that kind of in fighting that happens

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Speaker 1: when there was a successful hashtag, you know, and uh

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Speaker 1: so we had to do the research, but we uh

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Speaker 1: we kept it secret and so we uh we just

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Speaker 1: felt like we liked it. I like it better than

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Speaker 1: change the name, change the mascot, because what appealed to

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Speaker 1: me was that it was a taking back right and

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Speaker 1: we are taking this back and we were taking back

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Speaker 1: who we are and owning it, right, and uh, and so, uh,

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Speaker 1: we kept it pretty secret. We they sickly. Uh. We

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Speaker 1: we all looked at who our most high profile Twitter

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Speaker 1: followers were at that time. I mean, for some reason

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Speaker 1: check d was following me, and so we just we

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Speaker 1: made a list of them all, you know, and and

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Speaker 1: we basically contacted them personally and we told them that

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Speaker 1: we were going to be launching this hashtag and we

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Speaker 1: were going to do a test run Saturday before the

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Speaker 1: night before the Super Bowl, and would they help us

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Speaker 1: and share with their followers. And I think in two

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Speaker 1: thousand four, two thousand four January two thousand fourteen, I

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Speaker 1: think Twitter was a more innocent place and somewhere is

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Speaker 1: now several years later. And then we did it again

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Speaker 1: on Sunday and and so that was how we started that.

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Speaker 1: And it was really just s necessity that we created

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Speaker 1: that hashtag. But I've been really happy with how it's

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Speaker 1: grown and been used. And I could imagine social media

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Speaker 1: was probably pretty helpful for having this all come together.

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Speaker 1: We were able to utilize native people on the ground,

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Speaker 1: and the amazing thing about social media was that it

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Speaker 1: really it allowed us to organize and at a level

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Speaker 1: that we had not been able to do. Before, native

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Speaker 1: community was very dispersed. Uh. Most of the majority of

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Speaker 1: the Native people live off the reservation, and they are

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Speaker 1: like live as minorities and amongst minorities, like sometimes the

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Speaker 1: only like me, the only Native kid in your school. Everything.

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Speaker 1: So we live quite isolated from each other and uh.

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Speaker 1: And so social media was a great, an amazing boon

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Speaker 1: to helping us organize more effectively and more rapidly. And uh.

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Speaker 1: And so when Dad's sider started that foundation, the Original

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Speaker 1: Americans Foundation, and I was going around giving money to

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Speaker 1: tribes try to buy support for his mascot. He was

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Speaker 1: flying all over the country and his private plane, and

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Speaker 1: he was doing it very secretively. And so we because

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Speaker 1: we were connected with Native people across the country, we

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Speaker 1: were able to get people sending us tips and sending

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Speaker 1: us all kinds of things and uh. And we actually

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Speaker 1: use that to uh, you know, I had some contacts

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Speaker 1: in the media, uh and um, and we use that

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Speaker 1: to put stories out about what he was doing. And

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Speaker 1: we basically made him the story. I think if you

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Speaker 1: watched the two thousand and fourteen he made all these

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Speaker 1: missteps and well, send the issue around his mascot started

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Speaker 1: to come more of a referendum on him personally. Forbes

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Speaker 1: is Monty Burke noted that the name change issue was

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Speaker 1: made much worse by the fact that people just really

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Speaker 1: did not like Dan Snyder the Original America's Foundation. Snyder's

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Speaker 1: paid PR effort to stop conversations about the name change

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Speaker 1: was pretty embarrassing. He famously refused to meet with Native

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Speaker 1: activists about the name change, and he told USA Today,

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Speaker 1: We'll never change the name. It's that simple. Never. You

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Speaker 1: can use all caps. But after the protests around in

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Speaker 1: the desks of unarmed black people this summer, Dan Snyder

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Speaker 1: pretty much could not ignore the fact that the climate

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Speaker 1: was changing, and for the first time, the team faced

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Speaker 1: significant financial pressure. In addition to protests from activists, a

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Speaker 1: group of investors asked major sponsors like Pepsi and FedEx

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Speaker 1: to pressure him to change the name. Then FedEx Field,

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Speaker 1: the stadium right outside of d C in Maryland, where

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Speaker 1: the Washington football team plays, joined the chorus too. Nike

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Speaker 1: pulled Washington Football team swag from their website, and in July,

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Speaker 1: the team finally announced they'd be reviewing the name. So

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Speaker 1: how does that field don't know that they're finally dropping

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Speaker 1: this slur from this team name. You know, does it

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Speaker 1: feel like a win for your community? How are you

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Speaker 1: feeling about it? You know, I didn't feel like we

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Speaker 1: had won. I felt like we had we had not

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Speaker 1: one the issue once again, the lack of understanding, lackability.

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Speaker 1: I felt like we did not actually win the issue.

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Speaker 1: The issue was tabled, right, and what won the issue

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Speaker 1: was black lives matter. And that's what I write about basically.

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Speaker 1: And you know this is this has been true before.

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Speaker 1: I would say. I remember asking, uh, my uncle Vindaloria Jr.

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Speaker 1: He's a well known um Native historian. He wrote, Custer

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Speaker 1: died for your sins and God has read. And I

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Speaker 1: never askeding was like, what started the Red Power movement,

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Speaker 1: Jim mean in the seventies, And he was like he

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Speaker 1: looked at me like I was like, what's wrong with you?

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Speaker 1: And he's like, well, it was a civil rights movement,

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Speaker 1: Like you not know this, you know, the you know,

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Speaker 1: the you know, uh, you know, the black power movement

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Speaker 1: you know spawned the Red Power movement, you know, And

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Speaker 1: and I think that's you know, what my mother always

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Speaker 1: told me was like the way she sounds kind of weird,

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Speaker 1: but the way she discarded it was like that the

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Speaker 1: black community were like our our our older brothers, Jim

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Speaker 1: mean that they that they helped us and looked out

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Speaker 1: for us, and that they were more familiar and more

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Speaker 1: knowledgeable about white society and had to maneuver in it,

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Speaker 1: and and so they were often really helpful. I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, that was her way of understanding

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Speaker 1: it with not your mascot thing. I really feel like

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Speaker 1: it was black lives matter, and um, you know, of course,

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Speaker 1: you know the price paid by the black community, and

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Speaker 1: you know, folks like Brianna Taylor and and uh and

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Speaker 1: George Floyd, all of those things that made it possible,

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Speaker 1: I mean, may create an atmosphere that made this no

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Speaker 1: longer acceptable, you know, starting with the Confederate statues and

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Speaker 1: then questioning other folks and suddenly it made the arguments

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Speaker 1: we are making made them undeniable. And that's what forests can.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break and we're back. Our country

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Speaker 1: has a fascination with pretending to be native and appropriating

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Speaker 1: native culture without really giving it much thought. And even worse,

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Speaker 1: when native culture is presumed to be up for the taking,

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Speaker 1: someone's taken a step further and just pretend to be

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Speaker 1: Native themselves. This summer, science researcher Beth and McLaughlin admitted

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Speaker 1: to being behind the Twitter account of a bisexual Hopie

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Speaker 1: professor who didn't really exist. Long time listeners of Tangoti

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Speaker 1: might remember that we mentioned McLaughlin brief Fleet in the

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Speaker 1: episode featuring Ottawa Umboya and m I t as the

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Speaker 1: recipient of m I Teeth Disobedience Award. McGlaughlin used this

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Speaker 1: Native persona for years, building up legit influence on social

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Speaker 1: media and in Andreas Smith, a prominent academic at the

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Speaker 1: University of California and Riverside, was accused of misrepresenting herself

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Speaker 1: as Cherokee. And all of this happens while actual Native

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Speaker 1: women in their work and contributions go overlooked. I did

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Speaker 1: a whole series of podcasts on at poll Nation magazine

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Speaker 1: on the are you can see them on our Facebook

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Speaker 1: page that that goes through the pretending issue and pretend

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Speaker 1: is I guess. I don't know if I invented this term,

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Speaker 1: but it's I do have to explain it, but it

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Speaker 1: pretend Indian pretending. I think my parents generation called the

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Speaker 1: wannabes the Wabi tribe. I want to be a tribe

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Speaker 1: and uh so I got that and uh and uh

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Speaker 1: so it's um but yeah, I think it the real issue.

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Speaker 1: And of course a lot of people know about the

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Speaker 1: issue of Cherokees, what they go through with with fraud.

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Speaker 1: I think the Cherokee Nation at one point tried to

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Speaker 1: count the number of fake Cherokee tribes and they got

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Speaker 1: to over four hundred, right, and uh so it's quite extensive.

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Speaker 1: It's astounding, I would have to say, and this is

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Speaker 1: my theory, and I go into this and my I

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Speaker 1: did the podcast on structural fixes to Pretendianism. Because there

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Speaker 1: are so many pretendients. It's like whack a mole. I

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Speaker 1: would say, as high as one in three people in

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Speaker 1: some official capacity, whether as heads of Native American studies

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Speaker 1: departments or you know, uh, you know artists or you know, writers,

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Speaker 1: authors are are are frauds. They're fake Indians. It's it's

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Speaker 1: really that high, you know. It's it's I mean, I

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Speaker 1: as journalists, I really kept stumbling upon this, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'd beat interviewing someone and then uh and then later

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Speaker 1: find out that they were a fake. You know what's

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Speaker 1: that like for you? It's it makes our it makes

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Speaker 1: our identity, our reality, like a hall of mirrors. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's so, I mean, it's it's everything gaslighting, you know, colonialism,

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Speaker 1: taking all of that stuff, all white privilege, you know,

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Speaker 1: all rolled up into one right, and uh so it's

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Speaker 1: it's very frustrating. And of course we have uh, you

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Speaker 1: know folks who are um you know, who are people

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Speaker 1: of color, but they are they too they would prefer

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Speaker 1: to be native j I mean, And so we have

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Speaker 1: a lot I think. I'm Adam Beach recently, he's a

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Speaker 1: Native actor, First Nations actor from Canada. He's spent a

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Speaker 1: lot of Hollywood roles. Uh you know, he recently called

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Speaker 1: out an actress who is Chinese and white. In addition

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Speaker 1: to actors pretending to be Native, non native writers and

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Speaker 1: directors try to tell Native stories on TV, and it

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Speaker 1: just comes off as a really inauthentic when you see

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Speaker 1: when someone is obviously a fraud, you know, and uh

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Speaker 1: our wait and the way so we presented is kind

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Speaker 1: of like, oh, that's not how we It's like very stereotypical.

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Speaker 1: You know. You hear the flute music, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff. It's super annoying and we

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Speaker 1: really need to have a hot show. We need Native

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Speaker 1: American showrunners, rend writers who are in control of the

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Speaker 1: of everything, you know, bringing actors or directors in at

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Speaker 1: the last minute when everything is said done, uh is

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Speaker 1: not enough of a fix. It does speak to this

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Speaker 1: larger issue of people who pretend to be Native, which

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00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 1: is so common that it's almost a cliche at this point.

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Speaker 1: I cover several cases of pretendianism, and I get contacted

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Speaker 1: almost every day by Native people. And what really cluded

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Speaker 1: me into was when I was I would call like

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Speaker 1: a native academic, uh, you know, for a quote or

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Speaker 1: a comment on a story completely unrelated to ethnic fraud

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00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,159
Speaker 1: and uh, and they would after we'd have the have

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00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,199
Speaker 1: the you know interview, they'd be like, you know, by

402
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,200
Speaker 1: the way, I was wondering if you could cover this story.

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Speaker 1: We're having a problem. My university is hiring a pretendion. Uh,

404
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 1: you know, so new as no native ancestry it all,

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Speaker 1: who just claims to be Native and and he's gonna

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Speaker 1: be my boss. It's just like I mean, once they

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00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,679
Speaker 1: become your boss or you know, your your your thesis advisor,

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00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: you know, what can you do. They're they're basically being

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00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 1: you're basically babies at by a white fraud ster over

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Speaker 1: what you can say about Native issues. And that's it's

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Speaker 1: like you can't really like, well, yeah, what can you do.

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Speaker 1: It's like you can't really be like, listen, I know

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Speaker 1: you're a fraud like you have so few probably have

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Speaker 1: so few avenues to sort it out. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: I uh. In two thousand and fifteen, it really came

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Speaker 1: out in the Native community that that this woman named

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Speaker 1: Andrea Smith, who was a Native American studies professor at

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Speaker 1: the University of California Riverside, right. I think she runs

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Speaker 1: the department there. She was she was probably the most

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Speaker 1: famous Native woman at the time and in the early

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Speaker 1: aughts for a book she wrote called Conquest, which is

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Speaker 1: all about you know, colonization and uh, the violence against

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Speaker 1: Indigenous women and uh. And turned out she was a

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Speaker 1: complete fraud. She was not Cherokee at all, and and

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Speaker 1: a bunch of Cherokee scholars got to gather and wrote

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Speaker 1: a group letter and published it in Indian Country Today

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Speaker 1: and demanding that she stopped. You know, and she hasn't.

428
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 1: She's still doing it. So did she own up to

429
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 1: it or was she just like I am Cherokee, I

430
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 1: don't care what y'all say, she's sort of you know,

431
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,160
Speaker 1: the thing is that they don't have to answer to us.

432
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: They have to that the only people they answer to

433
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: our white people who don't know anything, right who and

434
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: who are afraid to enter the the the issue right

435
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 1: because but they're taking advantage of genocide, and yet they

436
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: get there. They build space through genocide, right and and

437
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 1: so basically you know, saying, well, you know there's no

438
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 1: paperwork because you know, my ancestors hit out and everything

439
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 1: and and uh and they have all these arguments. But

440
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 1: you know, she actually hired the reading the Cherokee Nations

441
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: official geneologist David Korn's silk to do her genealogy in

442
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: the Night Team early nineteen or fake in the nineteen nineties.

443
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,959
Speaker 1: She hired him to do her her mother's side couldn't

444
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,360
Speaker 1: fight anything any links to the Cherokee Nation at all.

445
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 1: Who who are, by the way, one of those documented

446
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: people in the world, Like Cherokee people always tell me,

447
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 1: the historians, enginealogists tell me they're they're the most documented people,

448
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 1: second only to royalty. So if you can't find a tie,

449
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 1: there is none, basically, and I think the l A.

450
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: Times has done a really good series of articles. Uh,

451
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: one in uh I guess December of last year, which

452
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: looked at fake tribes in California. That's another place of course. Uh,

453
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: you know, with the gold Rush and everything, those tribes

454
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: were decimated, that genocide was quite extensive. And now there's

455
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,640
Speaker 1: all these fake to mass tribes popping up. And then

456
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: also they did a study before that, Uh, they did

457
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: an article where they they found that there was fake

458
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 1: Cherokee tribes had taken in over three d and fifteen

459
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 1: million dollars in federal set asides. Even after they was

460
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: revealed they were fake, they still were receiving that money.

461
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,160
Speaker 1: And it's so harmful and it's you know, it's uh,

462
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: where there's money, people will do this. And so the

463
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: issue of masket Tree, I see it is on the

464
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 1: spectrum of pretendianism. It's all of a piece. When we

465
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: turn already traditionally underrepresented people into mascots. It doesn't just

466
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: end at the sports arena. Offensive representations of Native people

467
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: rooted in harmful stereotypes are to humanizing, and actual Native

468
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: people are left to deal with the consequences. There was

469
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: a study done by the Calogg Foundation in two thousand

470
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: eighteen I think it came out and uh. And what

471
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: they found they've done a bunch of focus groups. Smith

472
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 1: was starting to go seventeen and uh, and they found

473
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: that the issue of masket tree was very hard. I

474
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 1: came with the term masket try to sort of take

475
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: it away from the mascot, which can be sort of

476
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 1: prosaic and handsome, and to mask a tree, which which

477
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: described all the things they do with that, right, all

478
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 1: the red face and all you know, wearing the Polca

479
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: hattie outfits and and the uh you know, the headdresses

480
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: and you know, debasing our culture right for their own enjoyment.

481
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: And what they found was that only thirty of people

482
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: they've had in these focus groups understood the issue of

483
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: mascots and uh. So they and they they found that

484
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: with standing rock, uh you know, they had also, uh

485
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 1: that's over sev understood and agree with the issue of

486
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: sovereignty and the importance of standing rock. So you can

487
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: see that standy rock was an issue that white people

488
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: could understand, right and have compassion for. But mascots they

489
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 1: can't understand, you know. And uh and also they found

490
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: they they found out whether white folks they were focused

491
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: grouping only thought that Native people were six key percent

492
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 1: human like, that we were yeah, that we weren't fully

493
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: human like animalistic, and so all of these stereotypes feed

494
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: into that and uh So, but my solution is, actually,

495
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: I think I see this as a structural problem and

496
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 1: uh and uh I actually think it has to do

497
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: with the fuzziness of our political identity, which is purposeful.

498
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 1: It's a purposeful result of US policy for you know,

499
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,479
Speaker 1: hundreds of years. I often tell people, you know, if

500
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: you don't speak your language, or you know, you can't roll,

501
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: it's probably not your it's not your fault, it's you

502
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: know that this is the result of uh of policy,

503
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: official US policy by you know, the most powerful country

504
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: in the world, basically, and which is to make us disappear.

505
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: And of course it's political because it's tied to our

506
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: claims to the land as nations, as pre existing nations

507
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: to the United States. And so it's these claims in

508
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: the land that are the threat that we represent as

509
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: a people. And so so I think that the solution

510
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: is really strengthening our political reality. And uh So, we

511
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: have tribes now that are recognized by the federal government.

512
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: We have tribes that are not recognized. We have a

513
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: lot of fake tribes, right. And but what I suggest

514
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: is actually creating a federal indigenous government that could be

515
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: counter to the US government and would represent a you know,

516
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: all the tribes and would then be the body that

517
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: would recognize tribes that would allow them to join indigenous

518
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: peoples and uh, not only the United States, but Canada

519
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: and contiguous land areas as well. And uh and so

520
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: I think that by doing that, we will be politically

521
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: much more visible things, which makes us more and more real,

522
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: more and more present in the in the moment when

523
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: you are colonized, these are the things that go. You know,

524
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: these are the things you can't protect, your language, your children,

525
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: you know, uh, your everything, your land base, all these

526
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: things because your borders are are when I see as

527
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: our identity is incredibly fuzzy around the edges, it's very permeable,

528
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: so it's very easy for them to take it, you know,

529
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: for them to claim it, to take it. And uh.

530
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: And so this is this is why I feel that

531
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: a much more, a much stronger strengthened political reality it

532
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: is the answer, because once we are politically real, then

533
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: it's much harder for them to to to work in

534
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: these fuzzy spaces created by colonization. Part of creating a

535
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: reality where Native people are more politically real, it's also

536
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: creating a world where people don't feel like Native culture

537
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: is just up for the taking as identities or as

538
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 1: offensive mascots. And it's not a tribute or a compliment

539
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: to use someone else's culture in this way, especially when

540
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: actual Native people are so often underfunded, underrepresented, and unsupported.

541
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: And it's not complimentary, it's not it's not even benign.

542
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: It's aggressive, right, especially when you're seeing the way that

543
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: they attack actual Native people to hold their space, right.

544
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: And uh so, like with this Andrea Smith, uh you know,

545
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: after she was really publicly revealed in the Native community

546
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: in two thousand fifteen, you know, just a cup in

547
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen, all year long at her students kept

548
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: messaging me and Native students, mostly Avaha women, and they

549
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: were like, you know, we're sitting in this classroom. We

550
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: can't say anything. We know she's a fake. You know,

551
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: she tries to talk to us and buddy up to us,

552
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: and we're dislike, but I need her recommendation to get

553
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 1: into this graduate program. Do I mean? It's just and

554
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: then there's suddenly all these things that you can't talk

555
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: about because you have to get the okay of the

556
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: pretending and who's protecting their space and so it's it's

557
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: very corrosive and uh. And it also it's a taking.

558
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 1: I mean, we are I think the poorest community a

559
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: group in the yeah, I states, we are how the

560
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: lowest income levels. Uh. And to take jobs from us

561
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: that could support a Native family and and they even

562
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: folks because people send money home to the reservation. You know,

563
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: it's a big taking from really the most impoverished people

564
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: in the in the country. White privilege means that white

565
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 1: people pretending to be us is far more attractive to

566
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: white people who are in power decision making places to Uh.

567
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: It's because it feeds all their ideas about us. They

568
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 1: know how to perform the idea any way that appeals

569
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: to white people. More after this quick break, let's get

570
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: right back into it. So I live in d C,

571
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: where so many of us are embarrassed by the fact

572
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: that this slur was associated with our city. But what

573
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: do you say to people who were like, Oh, it's

574
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: just a mascot, what's the big deal? Or we're say

575
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: it's actually trying to honor your heritage. You know, what

576
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: do you say to these people? I think that for

577
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: white people, often they will bring up the Viking mascot.

578
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: And what I tell them is that it's not as pervasive.

579
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: It's not the only way that white men are seen,

580
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: which is true for Native people, right. Uh, you know,

581
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: I I tell them, like, imagine, imagine that you live

582
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: in a world where the only time you see a

583
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: white man is as a Viking and as a mascot.

584
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: And and so what would be that what would you

585
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: say the first time you meet a white man? You'd

586
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,719
Speaker 1: be like, where's your long boat? Where's your helmet with

587
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: the horns on it? Because this is your assumption. Alsa,

588
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: you never saw a white man, you know, uh, you know,

589
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: uh running for president. You never saw a white man,

590
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: you know, on TV anchoring the news. You never saw

591
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: a white man saving the world in a Hollywood movie.

592
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: You ever saw white family on TV? Just you know,

593
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: in a sitcom. You know, you know, if you walk

594
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: into a bookstore and um, maybe two of the books

595
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 1: are written from the perspective of a contemporary white man

596
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: gaming out of the thousands of books, you know, then

597
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,439
Speaker 1: then then it would be the same thing. But see,

598
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: they don't live in that world, you know, where they're

599
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: marginalized to that extent and so so so it's so

600
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: you know, usually I try to put people on a

601
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 1: different perspective of where they stand because I think that,

602
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: you know, uh, there's the only way they can grasp

603
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: the issue or the main thing is what it how

604
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: it impacts need of youth. I think that's a very

605
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: real measure. And uh. The research done particularly by a

606
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: too Lalip tribal member, she uh, she did a lot

607
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: of research. Um what's her name, Stephanie um for her

608
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 1: name right now, but but she uh, she did a

609
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: lot of research at Stanford on the mascot issue. And

610
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: what she was she basically tested Native youth. She tested

611
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: their self esteem, their ability to imagine what they wanted

612
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: to do. And I think whether they thought they could

613
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 1: achieve it. There's a term for them. I can't remember now,

614
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,879
Speaker 1: but um Sephany Freiberg cuts her name and uh and

615
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 1: she uh and then she she exposed them to the mascot,

616
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: right and what she found and this was that that

617
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 1: it uh, it overwhelmingly reduced the self esteem of Native

618
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: youth once they were exposed to a Native mascot. And

619
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: and and strikingly enough that the Native youth who claimed

620
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,800
Speaker 1: to be okay with Native mascots, their self esteem plummeted

621
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: the most. And also what plummeted was their ability to

622
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: imagine themselves being able to achieve their dreams. And it

623
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 1: says this, It says, I think you know, the realization

624
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 1: that you're not regarded as fully human by society, it

625
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: makes you like less engaged to me unless and you

626
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: no longer believe you can achieve certain things right and

627
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: and nay of youth are by every measure the most vulnerable.

628
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: And and the price the American dream is paid, um,

629
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 1: you know, by people of color and by Native youth.

630
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: And to to engage in this thing just for entertainment

631
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: value is uh. And and that that Native you should

632
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: have to pay the price is pretty horrific. In one

633
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:29,760
Speaker 1: of your pieces that I read about not your Mascot,

634
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 1: you said that you and the other Native parents who

635
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 1: were behind this campaign were really doing it because you

636
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: wanted to leave a better life for your children. So

637
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: my question is what are your hopes for the next

638
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: generation of Native little ones like your own? Yeah, it's interesting, Oh,

639
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: my son wants to be a filmmaker. And yeah, and

640
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: and you know he's he's actually not that interested in

641
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 1: doing things that about native things. He just wants to

642
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 1: to write as a writer. He wants to just be

643
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 1: a filmmaker and just make films without having to think

644
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 1: too much about or having to see. One of the

645
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:04,760
Speaker 1: things is I don't want us to have to perform

646
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: our identity either. So I mean, I think a lot

647
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,359
Speaker 1: of times people will meet Native people and be like, well,

648
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,439
Speaker 1: you don't seem Indian enough to me, right, like a

649
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,320
Speaker 1: random white person. I mean, you know, you're not the

650
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 1: kind of Indian I think in Indian should be. And uh,

651
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: and so there's a sense that everyone's an authority and

652
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 1: being Indian and they can tell an Indian when they

653
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: see one, right, And and this notion that then it

654
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 1: does you know, an impact native people they feel. You know,

655
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: you'll see Native people who are I think the seeking

656
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: out of our culture is really important and and that

657
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: it needs to be something that we we have access to.

658
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: But I think it needs to happen at a structural level.

659
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: It needs to be sort of flow naturally, like our

660
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: language acquisition. You know, when you're colonized it's disrupted. But

661
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: when you have political strong political boundaries, then it grows.

662
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times as being able to

663
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: perform our culture is treated as a litmus test to

664
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: our to our authenticity, and that is very harmful to

665
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: native people. It's um, you know, and of course these

666
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 1: are if they don't speak their language or it's not

667
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 1: their own fault, right, it's it's it's you know, systemic

668
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: you know, colonial policies, hundreds of years of policies that

669
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 1: brought them about and um and so uh so what

670
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: I really fight for is not only the the elimination

671
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 1: of the eradication of these negative stereotypes, but also they

672
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 1: need to have to perform our identity to other people's

673
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: you know, desires, and um, I just I just want,

674
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 1: I want maybe people just to be able to be themselves.

675
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 1: So yeah, I just want us to be free of

676
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: all of that and for people to be free to

677
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 1: be themselves and to focus on things that are meaningful

678
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 1: to them. And I want the culture, the language, everything

679
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: to float, um of its own accord right, not to

680
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 1: have to be some forced or performative. Um. So that's

681
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: that's when I'm finding through from my kids Jacklin fights

682
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 1: for a world where Native kids like hers feel secure

683
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 1: in their culture and their identities, a world where they

684
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 1: don't feel like they need to perform their nativeness in

685
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,839
Speaker 1: order to feel whole, and a world where they don't

686
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: have to watch non native people performed. Either got a

687
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: story about an interesting thing in tech, or just want

688
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: to say hi, you can reach us at Hello at

689
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: tangodi dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's

690
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 1: episode at tangodi dot com. There Are No Girls on

691
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: the Internet was created by me Bridget Tod. It's a

692
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio and Unboss creative Jonathan Strickland as

693
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: our executive producer. Terry Harrison is our producer and sound engineer.

694
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Tod.

695
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: If you want to help us grow, rate and review

696
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from I heeart Radio,

697
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,959
Speaker 1: check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever

698
00:39:55,000 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. I have been him whip and

699
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: then I have to in