1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:04,480 Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of I 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. You said, I like the thirty five hour 3 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: work week so much that I do it twice a week. Absolutely. 4 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: I leave everything with intensity, and that is the secret. 5 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:22,959 Speaker 1: Intensity is probably the right worm if you want to 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: leave fully. I'm Bob Pittman. I've had a lot of 7 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: jobs over the years, and I've been lucky enough to 8 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: be at the center of some major cultural and media revolutions. 9 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: The cable revolution in the eighties as the co founder 10 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: of MTV, the Internet revolution in the nineties as the 11 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,639 Speaker 1: CEO of America Online a o l in the pre 12 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: Google and Facebook days, and now the audio revolution as 13 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: the chairman and CEO of I Heart Media, America's number 14 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: one audio company. And that's only part of my story. 15 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: I started out in a little town in the Ssissippi, 16 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: son of a minister, got my real first job at 17 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: a radio station in my teens. It's where my roots are, 18 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: music voices, hearing people's stories, and one of the things 19 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: I've always loved is trying to decode how big ideas 20 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: find their way into the world. This new show, Math 21 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,759 Speaker 1: and Magic is about those stories. It's about the stories 22 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: from the frontiers of marketing. Each show I sit down 23 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: with visionaries to hear how they've used data and creativity 24 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: to bring incredible ideas to life. On this episode, we 25 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: have with us a living legend of advertising, marketing and communications, 26 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: Maurice Levy, the former and legendary chairman and CEO of 27 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: Public's Group. And just to give you an idea of 28 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: his impact as CEO, the company increased its value some 29 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: hundredfold during his tenure at the top. Maurice also has 30 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: an unusual perspective. He was just a second CEO of 31 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: the company, and he joined the company back in nineteen one. 32 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: Is it's rector of I t Yeah, he was a 33 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: data guy a full thirty to forty years before it 34 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: became the thing. He was one of the pioneers of 35 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: globalization too, and even has a legendary story about literally 36 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,959 Speaker 1: saving the company from a fire. But before we get 37 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: to all that and a lot more, Welcome Maurice. Glad 38 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: to have you here, and by the way, congratulations on 39 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: your induction into the Advertising Hall of Fame. Quite an honor, Messy, 40 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,519 Speaker 1: It's great. I feel I was sort of surprised you 41 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: weren't already in there. But but that's another debate. We 42 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: always start our episodes with a feature. We called you 43 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: in sixty seconds. Do you prefer cats or dogs? None? 44 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: Chess or checkers? Chess, Paris or New York City? Difficult 45 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: to choose. I love both skiing or snowboarding, skiing, jazz 46 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: or classical jazz. Do you have a secret talent? No, 47 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: I have a secret source, and the secret sauce is 48 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: a secret sources live at the maximum of speed. Childhood hero, 49 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: probably the most important Victoria, what's your favorite word? Messy 50 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: your least favorite word? Because I had to wake up? 51 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: And any foods you will never eat? Book. Okay, let's 52 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: jump into the defining moment in your professional life. You 53 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: joined bublicity director of I T in ninety one, and 54 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: for those of you who are not around back then, 55 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: in one most people didn't know what I T was 56 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: or even data. It was a very forward thinking job 57 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: for that time. A year and your job of fire 58 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: breaks out in the office. You are the hero of 59 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: the story. Grabbed a fireman's jacket and helmet, rushed into 60 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: the building by the way, breaking every rule and probably 61 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: every law to do that to save the magnetic tapes 62 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: containing the company's computer files, and I heard you actually 63 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: threw the tapes and disc out the window to colleagues 64 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: standing outside. And this act of business bravery and personal 65 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: risk meant the company was able to invoice clients on time, 66 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: carry on the business more or less as normal, not 67 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: run out of money, despite the destruction of the offices. Sorry, 68 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 1: we were the eighth of September, so people were waiting 69 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 1: for thirty years of September to get the sorry page. Now, 70 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: how did you hear about the fire? What led up 71 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: to this? The story start. I had to den with friends, 72 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: and then I took a car with my friends and 73 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 1: we weren't and I saw the sky read and they said, 74 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: Purvis is burning. Says stop bringing everything to you. It's 75 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: not perviousis was burning. It's probably the bank nearby. The 76 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: more I got closer to to the office, the more 77 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: I showed that it was pou. So he left the 78 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: car and they rush. What led me to enter was twofold. First. 79 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: It has been enormous, enormous work to get everything done 80 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: on time for the new system. We have been working 81 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: for some twelve months day night, we can back still day. 82 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 1: You can imagine in France, basti days like in the 83 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: fourth of July. We are working Christmas pizza, whatever day 84 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: it was. We were working hard, and suddenly to see 85 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: all these disappear in ashes was impossible to me, and 86 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: I wanted also, and more importantly, to be sure that 87 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: there was no one inside. I tried to get in. 88 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: It was impossible. I had physics fight with a fireman. 89 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: I waited a little bit. Things calm down, and they 90 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 1: went the backstreet, and as you said, I broke every 91 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: single room. When I get in there was still some 92 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 1: burning US bank and everything was dark. I was walking 93 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 1: in the water, and to be honest, I was completely 94 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: unconscious of the risk. But since then I must say 95 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: that this unconsciousness of risk has been part of my character. 96 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 1: Ef He did you say, the greater the risk, the 97 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: greater the reward. It's just the same lesson. I was 98 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: not thinking about any reward. No, I was not thinking 99 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 1: at all about any world war now. As a result, 100 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: but not the reason you did it certainly is the 101 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: founder and CEO took notice of you. He did took 102 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: notice the very first day when I met him in March. 103 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: Second one that was supposed to spend ten fifteen minutes, 104 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: the classic ten fifteen minutes with the chairman CEO. We 105 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: were calling him the Pope of advertising in France, and 106 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: we stayed one hour together and he ended up the 107 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: meeting by giving me his book. Handling the book to 108 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: me said young man, one day you will run the company. 109 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: I was thrilled. I went home and they said, my wife, 110 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: you know, this is what he told me, and she 111 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: said to me, calm down. He's probably saying this to 112 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: every new Cooma. So did he. I discovered many years 113 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: after that he did not, and I was the very 114 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: first he did it. Obviously after the fire he got 115 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: even bigger notice of me. Master Blanche, the founder he 116 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: built the agency when he was at the age of twenty, 117 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: joined Generald Goal during the war. It destroyed everything before 118 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: going to London in order to make sure that he 119 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: is not going in the hand of the German. He 120 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: came back from London after I formidable War and the 121 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: formidable resistance and he started all over again and he 122 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: created the most creative agency of continental Europe. It was 123 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: a magnet for talent, for people, for clients. You know 124 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: what publicis was in those days in France. It was 125 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: a monument. It was like Notre dame for the advertising world, 126 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: and um to imagine that an eighty guy, one of 127 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: this math man in the world of mad men, could 128 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 1: one day run the agency was crazy. It was not 129 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: in my plan, it was not in my wildest dreams. 130 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: And I was thinking that one day we leave public 131 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: system that will run a more classic company. And in fact, 132 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: two years after he forered me to be the CEO 133 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,839 Speaker 1: of the agency and they refused, and they said, why 134 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,319 Speaker 1: did you refuse? I said, you want me because you 135 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: believe that they have the skills to manage the crisis, 136 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: which I have. But you don't want me to run 137 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: the company because you don't believe I have the creative skills. 138 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: So I prefer to do not disappoint you by being 139 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: fake CEO. So what I will do is to fix 140 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 1: the issues and then I will go back to my 141 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: original job. He said, it's the first time that somebody 142 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: is refusing a promotion. I said, but what you can 143 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 1: do is to give me the race, which he goes 144 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,079 Speaker 1: with the promotion. Don't give me the title, give me 145 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: the race, which he did, and I did the work. 146 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 1: Roughly a year after. He called me and he said, 147 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: I'm not asking you, I'm telling you the press release 148 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,959 Speaker 1: which is going out tomorrow, and you are the next CEO. 149 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,719 Speaker 1: Always started. Here's this wildly creator guy, the admin of 150 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: all time, that just knew the right campaign you, how 151 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: to get the client involved. You would start a n T. 152 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: How did you make this switch from the math man 153 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: to the batman. In fact, when I graduated from engineer, 154 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: I was looking for a job and I have been 155 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 1: hired by, or at least retained by a few industrial companies. 156 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: This was in sixty or six. All this operation you 157 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: had this big computer room and big programmer analysts room 158 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: with four or five people in white blues is working 159 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: on that desk. And I said, crising, I made the 160 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: biggest mistake of my life. I would spend my time 161 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: with these people. This is just crazy. I had already 162 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: a contract in hand, and I was sharing this view 163 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,839 Speaker 1: with a friend at the dinner and he said, but 164 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: you know there is this advertising agency which was not 165 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: yet publicist, was looking for its I T manager said, common, 166 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: I'm just getting out of school and you want me 167 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: to manage Go. These are admin, they don't know anything 168 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: about computer. You go, you get the job. I am went, 169 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: and I said, wow. It was a fantastic building, full 170 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 1: of light like in your office. All the people were 171 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: in jeans and long hair, and I was wearing jeans 172 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: and having long hair, as curious as it could be. 173 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 1: And I spent twenty minutes with the CEO and he 174 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,959 Speaker 1: gave me the job pretty quickly. I was doing my 175 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: job in the morning and I was spending my time 176 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,839 Speaker 1: in the afternoon either with the department or with the 177 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: media department. I did the very first algorithm of media 178 00:11:55,679 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: optimization in France, and this was fun because as nobody 179 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: knew about using operational research and algorithm for optimization of 180 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: media investment. So I did that. It was a great success. 181 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: I was twenty five and people were taking me for 182 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: new business. I was a kind of mascot and every 183 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: time I was going with them, we are winning. And 184 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: I was spending time with the creative people. So when 185 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 1: I got the offer from previous is in the deep 186 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: of my heart, I was a bit disappointed that I 187 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: was going back to it, which I had abandoned. I 188 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: was already having so much fun with the creative work. 189 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: When I explained this to myself, said he said, no, no, no, 190 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: you cannot be both. So you're an it guy. He 191 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,959 Speaker 1: criticized me quite off, saying, Moist, you should not do 192 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: so many things. You should just do adds and take 193 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: care of the clients. And as a matter of fact, 194 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: that I was doing everything which was making me having fun. 195 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: You're hitting on the topic of this podcast, which is 196 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: math and magic. There are very few people we talked 197 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: to that have both the math mind and the creative mind, 198 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: and you clearly do. Where did it come from and 199 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: were you always that way as a kid? The French 200 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: system of education at the point in time you have 201 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: to choose if you go science and math or if 202 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:35,839 Speaker 1: you go literature. I have chosen to do both. You 203 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: broke the system once again. You have an aptitude for both. 204 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: The math aspect has been required, the literature philosophy aspect 205 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: had The grandfather was telling me a lot of stories 206 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: either the bib because stories. It was explaining to me 207 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: spinos on if you're there, and it was a fantastic storyteller. 208 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: Your dad was a philosophy professor, bought against Franco in 209 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,719 Speaker 1: Spain and wound up in France and then moved on 210 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: to Morocco when the Nazis began their big move and 211 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: the family got accepted. There didn't imprint you in any way. Honestly, 212 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. My father wouldn't go north because of 213 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: the Nazis, who couldn't go south because of Franco, and 214 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: he was condemned to death. I had no other choice 215 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: than to go to Morocco. We moved back to France 216 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: and my father continued to fight against Franco in the 217 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: press and in many of the aspects, and my mother 218 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: was taking care of us. There's a story that you 219 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: actually got into I t because there was some contest. 220 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: Can you tell me the story? In fact, it was 221 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: the first story of my failure. When I was very young, 222 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: I wanted to be a curgeon, and when I started 223 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: that the education, it has been a bit difficult. As 224 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: soon as we were entering in a hospital, I was 225 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: almost to be taken care of. I was going kind 226 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: of limb. Everyone told me, okay, there is no way 227 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: that you will be capable of handling the scalpel, so 228 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: forget about that, and then you have to choose another direction. 229 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: As I failed, I had to find something else. And 230 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: there has been a contest organized by a shoemaker who 231 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: left Czechoslovakia at the time of the Nazis and the 232 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: Communist Party, etcetera. And you organized the contest, and they 233 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: want a contest, and the price was and the price 234 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: was to go to the US and to learn I 235 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: t whatever I wanted. That's a pretty good story. Now 236 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: it's a nice story. I want to get into how 237 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: you fended off a foreign takeover, why you decided to 238 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: bring the company to America, and why you left your large, 239 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: beautiful office for a much smaller one on the other 240 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: side of the building. The first a quick break, welcome 241 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: back to math and magic. We're here with more easily 242 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: be so in forty five, I think at the time 243 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: you took over the CEO. At that time the business 244 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: I understanding was about French business. You set about building 245 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: the company internationally. I guess first European. What was it 246 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: that you saw that put you on that path? Because 247 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: you were really the king of France. I mean, you 248 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: couldn't be much bigger in France than you were. Why 249 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: did you want to expand? It was not so much 250 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: the fact that we were limited in our growth in France, 251 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: which was true, because we are so big that it 252 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: was hard to grow much higher. We could have extended 253 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: in diversified services. It was simply that the core of 254 00:16:55,240 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: our business is advertising, and globalization was at outdoors. The 255 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: client was starting to think global. I thought that if 256 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 1: we want to stay alive, we will have to be global. 257 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 1: Otherwise we will lose our business, we will lose our reasons, 258 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: that we will lose everything. So I decided that we 259 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: will go global. It has been a bit tough with 260 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: the founder at the beginning. Every time I was suggesting 261 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 1: that we go somewhere, he was asking me if there 262 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: was something that we could bring to that country that 263 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: they have not already. And I remember when we are 264 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: speaking about the US, said that mois the US. What 265 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: the heck are you going to do? They are the 266 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: king of advertising. They are the best in the world, 267 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: the largest, the biggest. What do you think you will bring? 268 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: I said, I will not bring a lot, but they 269 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,959 Speaker 1: will bring a lot to us, and this is how 270 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 1: we should do it. And he said that it will 271 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 1: take a lot of time and you will have to 272 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: do it yourself, et cetera. I was living on the 273 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: Monday morning, I was back on the plane of the 274 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: Tuesday evening, so back at work on Wednesday, and nobody 275 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,360 Speaker 1: noticed in Paris, that I was not there, and at 276 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,360 Speaker 1: the same time we were building a pretty good business here. 277 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,959 Speaker 1: We started to work with great brands and have them 278 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: growing outside the US in Europe, and then I had 279 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: to to wait a little bit for developing the network globally. Also, 280 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:40,120 Speaker 1: the time Martin Sorrel bought J Walter Thompson, yea coincidence 281 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: or was there something in the air? Was there a 282 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: rush to build the first big global agency? With the 283 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: way the Martin story move has been analyzed, it was 284 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: much more like a copycat of what he has done 285 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 1: with the Sacchi Brothers. He was the CF of Sachi 286 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: Sachi he left to build his own operation, and people 287 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: were thinking not about globalization, but about the fact that, okay, 288 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: it's a kind of revenge and he's going to do 289 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 1: what he has done with Sachi Brothers and build a 290 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 1: company like the one he has been working and building. 291 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: And you wound up with Sachi and Sachi ironically, ironically, 292 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 1: and what is the irony? Also that it was in 293 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: the nineteen eighty I believe, I don't remember exactly. I 294 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: was my office and marcellusin Blanche asked me to join 295 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: him at his office and sitting in the office was Moist, 296 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: Sachi and Martin. Sorry, Massel invited me to join them, 297 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 1: and he said, the Moist these gentlemen offering us to 298 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: make an acquisition together, and I would like you to 299 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: go London and to see with him. He we should 300 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 1: be doing it or not. The first attempt was to 301 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 1: acquire us, but with Marsel there was no chance that 302 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: we will be selling, and with me even less chances. 303 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: I went to London. I had a wonderful day at 304 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 1: such as actually with Mois, with Martin and Charles who 305 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: came and just say oh. At the end of the meeting, 306 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: Moise and Martin asked me what I will recommend to 307 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 1: the old man. I said, I will recommend not to 308 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: make the deal. And he said, but one will have. 309 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: It will be a fifty fifty a position. I said, yes, 310 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: but your fifty will always be bigger than ours. And 311 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: that was kind of story, or maybe the beginning of 312 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:53,679 Speaker 1: a story between the fantastic friendship which unite me to Martin. 313 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: You talked about enabling the future. What do you mean 314 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 1: by that? In fact, it's coming from on to understand EPI, 315 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 1: the writer of the Little Prints. He said that as 316 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: for the future. We don't expect that you will foresee it, 317 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: but we expect that you will enable it. And this 318 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: sentence has worked a lot in my little head. And 319 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: they said, in fact, there are very very few people 320 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: who forcee the future, but there are a lot of 321 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: people who are enabling the future. One of the people 322 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: who have for seen the future is clearly Einstein, and 323 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,360 Speaker 1: there is no many Einstein, but there are a lot 324 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: of engineers who have enabled it. I don't believe that 325 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: they can be part of the people who can foresee 326 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: the future and invent what the future will be. But 327 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: where I can have an action is to enable it 328 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,920 Speaker 1: and to enable our client to at least adapt themselves 329 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: to the future and to be ready for the future, 330 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,919 Speaker 1: to help our agency to be ready for the future. 331 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: And that the reason for the many acquisitions I have 332 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: made in the digital field, particularly digit as at the 333 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: time where bubble Burst was not yet finished and everyone 334 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: was still in a terrible situation, or razor Fish, which 335 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: are acquiring twenty or nine or Sapient and now Epsilon. 336 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 1: Because this is part of the future. What you have 337 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: to do is to do two things. One is to 338 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,239 Speaker 1: level barricade in order that it's more difficult for them 339 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: to come that the defense strategy, and the second is 340 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: an offense strategy to go in their field and to 341 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: eat in their plate. And the one with the longest 342 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: fork to eat in the other plate is the one 343 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: we're winning. And this is what we did with Digitas 344 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 1: resor Fish and Sapient and this has helped us a 345 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:55,719 Speaker 1: great deal. And now which abstinence, we can help our 346 00:22:55,840 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 1: clients to do what you do so well. You have 347 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: been also. I know it's not about you, but sorry 348 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: to say that you have transform I heard media an 349 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: incredible way and you have foreseen and enabled the future 350 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: of radio because you have seen what digital could be 351 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,399 Speaker 1: for radio. And it was not only to have a 352 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: satellite system and to use digital radio, but you have 353 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: done much more. You were one of the first people 354 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: to talk about getting rid of silos, and today everyone's 355 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 1: talking about getting rid of silos. How do you make 356 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 1: that happen? It's difficult. For years, it has been positive 357 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: for the client, but at the moment everyone was trying 358 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 1: to sell is on turf without thinking about how how 359 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 1: the heck I coordinate all this in order to make 360 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 1: sure that every single touch point is helping the client 361 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 1: and the only way to do that because of people 362 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: were sitting in their fifdoms, were has two eliminuted the walls. 363 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 1: They created an internal slogan which is no silo, no solo, 364 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: no boso. And bozos very often are the ones who 365 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: are getting in the way and defending the silo approach. 366 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: And this conservatism is working against the interest of the client. 367 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: So we have to fight against that conservatism. And you 368 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: find the biggest obstacle other people in the silos, the 369 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: biggest obstacle other people. How do you conlearn some of 370 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: the come out of the silo that life will be 371 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,440 Speaker 1: better for them, As you have to spend a lot 372 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 1: of time explaining, explaining, explaining, you have no choice. You 373 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: cannot find an easy way to break silo because you 374 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: are changing the way people were. Many kind is made 375 00:24:54,119 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: of habits and it's staff. Some cannot change and that, 376 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: as painful as it can be, if you want the 377 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,919 Speaker 1: good of the company, you have to accept that they 378 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: leave the company. And some are discovering that you were 379 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: and excited and and enjoying everything, every piece of it, 380 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: every bit of it, and is fantastic. Two thousand seventeen, 381 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: you step down the CEO. How long had you and 382 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: Arthur have been working on that? From the outside, it 383 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: has looked like one of the smoothest and most seamless 384 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: transitions I've ever seen. One was really and to what 385 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: was the process of doing that? It's not easy. Let's 386 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 1: fish it a clear cut was what I thought would 387 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: be the best. I decided that I will not accept 388 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,880 Speaker 1: the job of chairman and I will leave the company. 389 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: The daughter of the founder was that time. The chairwoman 390 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: of the supervisory board insisted. The board insisted. Arthur himself insisted, 391 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 1: and he said, I'm not going to accept the job 392 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: if you live, except that there will be outside and 393 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: that will help you. So don't no, no, no, no no. 394 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: I want you inside and they want you to be 395 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 1: a chairman. So I finally accepted, and I thought that 396 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: it will be a failure. To the surprise of many people, 397 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: including myself, we found a formidable way of working together. First, 398 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: when you are in that position, you have to accept 399 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: that somebody else is doing the job and you should 400 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 1: not interfere. I'm letting out doing his job. I'm here. 401 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: We are speaking every day, we are meeting very often. 402 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: The weak we are in deep connection. I'm never never 403 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: telling him what he has to do. I'm always helping 404 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 1: him making his own decision. And I'm not saying that 405 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: is you have two decisions, that the good that the 406 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 1: bad one. Now I'm analyzing. I'm saying, okay, when you 407 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: look at those decisions, you have to look at that aspect, 408 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: that aspect, that aspects and if you go for that decision, 409 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 1: these are the course of a quants. If you go 410 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,680 Speaker 1: for that decision, these are the consequences. And he is 411 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: making his decision and when necessary is asking me for 412 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: advice where I can help him. Also is my my 413 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: relationship with clients. When you are running company for thirty years, 414 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 1: the heart of the company since the end of the seventies, 415 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 1: so you have built a bit of relationships in the business. 416 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 1: The second aspect where I have an impact is an acquisition. 417 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 1: It's not a secret that on Epsilon I have been 418 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: at the forefront since the beginning, and that The third 419 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: aspect is I don't like the word mentoring because this 420 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: is a little bit patronizing, but in helping and one 421 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: day told him I would like to be your best assistant. 422 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: You have to have the humility that you are no 423 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: longer the CEO that somebody else is doing the job 424 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: and you have to look through the window. How hard 425 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: is that? It's not that hard. I thought it will 426 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: be much harder. The first move I did was to 427 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: force him to take my office and they said, symbolically, 428 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: people have to see that you're the boss, and they 429 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: went back the almost first office that they had in 430 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: the new building. Let's jump a minute. You launched France's 431 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: answer to see us the v Tech conference. What was 432 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: the genesis of the idea? You know, it was not 433 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: to compete against CS and I think he has it's 434 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: quite unique and it's fantastic. I thought that if French 435 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: wanted to be seen for the ambition that President mccon had, 436 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: we needed to have a kind of lighthouse, something which 437 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: is a reflection of the heartbeat of French attack. Last 438 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: year was the third year we have had more than 439 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: one thousand visitors. We had nine thousand startups. This year 440 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: we are expecting to be even more than one under 441 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: thousand visitors. We expect to be more than ten thousand startups, 442 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: and we expect to have more than two thousand journalists 443 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: we had last year, once aus nine hundred and we 444 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: expect also to have more than two thousands investors. Extremely 445 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: by Brunt and one of the results that it has 446 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: energized the French tack. It started out with probably a 447 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: heavy dose of French tech folks. The last time I 448 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: was there it looked like it had gone to the 449 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: whole worldwide. Is that the mix now you've Yeah, I 450 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: saw a lot of Americans I know there, and this 451 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: year you will see a lot of Chinese. Interesting. So 452 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: let's go to a quote. You have this great quote. 453 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: I hope it's really a real quote, because it's just 454 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: too good. You said, I like the thirty five hour 455 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: work week so much that they do it's a week. 456 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: I do it twice a week, absolutely. So what's your 457 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: view of your work life balance? What does that say 458 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: about how you live your life? You know, I have 459 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: a life which is absolutely full in many aspects. I 460 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: leave everything with intensity, and that is probably the secret. 461 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: When I'm with my family, my wife, my sons, their wife, 462 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: my grandchildren, I live that moment with intensity. It is 463 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: so intense that even if it is short, it is fulfilling. 464 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: Intensity is probably the right word if you want to 465 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: leave fully, and that's what I'm trying to do this 466 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: has been great. We love having you on a podcast. 467 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: This podcast is about I go back to Mathew Magic. 468 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: But we always ended on one thing, and I want 469 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: you to think for a second about who is the 470 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: most analytical marketer you've met. Who's the best mathematician on 471 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: that side of the spectrum. I'm not sure I have 472 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: yet met him. I have seen a lot of very 473 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: good in our world. We have stars, creative stars, and 474 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: there are many at the next generation. You have a 475 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: few of those stars coming from the maths side of 476 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: the world. So let's go to the easier question. Who's 477 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: the greatest magician, who's the most creative? Who's in your 478 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: hall of fame? Okay, if I'm going back, you can 479 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: go back as far as you want to go back. 480 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: I will have to choose between three people. It's difficult, 481 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: So will you give the three names. We'll give it 482 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: a tie. I will give Master Present Bronchare obviously, but 483 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: not because he has been my boss or he has 484 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: been my mentor. I will give David Ogilvin and that 485 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: Bill barn Back, and they can add Liu Bernett. These 486 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 1: are the greatest names today. If I have to put 487 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: a few names. I will probably add Dan Whyden. I 488 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: think that is terrific that he has done a fantastic, 489 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: fantastic job, and there are plenty of great people in now. 490 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: In this way, the beauty in own destroy is that 491 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: you have personality. Geez. These people are extremely demanding, they 492 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: are never satisfied, they are never complacent, and they are 493 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 1: looking for the very best. It's a good way to end, Maurice, 494 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: thank you, Thank you both. That's it for today's episode. 495 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to Math and Magic, a 496 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. The show is hosted by 497 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sue Schillinger for booking and 498 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: wrangling are wonderful talent, which is no small feat Nikki 499 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: Etre for pulling research bill plaques, and Michael Asar for 500 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 1: their recording help, our editor Ryan Murdoch, and of course 501 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: Gail Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel Mango and everyone who helped 502 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: bring this show to your ears. Until next time,