Speaker 1: Pushkin. I want to let you know that Rick has
Speaker 1: a new podcast called Tetragrammaton. After about four to five
Speaker 1: years of recording Broken Record, Rick decided he wanted to
Speaker 1: talk to him more than just musicians, So on his
Speaker 1: new podcast, he'll be talking to actors, directors, wrestlers, business people,
Speaker 1: anyone that Rick finds interesting. So make sure to subscribe
Speaker 1: to Tetragrammaton wherever you listen to podcasts. George Clinton forever
Speaker 1: changed music with Parliament Funkadelic, whose theatrical sci fi performance
Speaker 1: art has captivated audiences worldwide for over five decades and
Speaker 1: influenced a range of artists from Prince to the Chili
Speaker 1: Peppers to Doctor Dre. P. Funk's blend of psychedelic rock
Speaker 1: and deep, repetitive, unfolding funk grooves helped bridge the R
Speaker 1: and B and rock worlds in the seventies, along with
Speaker 1: acts like Slying the Family Stone, known for multiple characters
Speaker 1: like Doctor Funkenstein, George Clinton orchestrated multiple solo acts under
Speaker 1: the p funk umbrella, and by the eighties was charting
Speaker 1: with solo hits himself like Atomic Dog, all of which
Speaker 1: would lay the groundwork for hip hop's classic g funk
Speaker 1: Era and beyond. On today's episode, Rick Rubin talks to
Speaker 1: George Clinton on Zoom about the origins of the original
Speaker 1: vocal group, the Parliaments, and the time George was on
Speaker 1: a panel with James Brown and dared the godfather of
Speaker 1: funkensole himself to do the splits eighteen times. This is
Speaker 1: broken record liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Richmond.
Speaker 1: In true George Clinton fashion, he funked up his recording.
Speaker 1: But you know it's all good because we want the
Speaker 1: funk anyway. So here's Rick Rubin with George Clinton. It's
Speaker 1: a pleasure to see you, sir. Been a minute. Say yeah,
Speaker 1: I love your hat. By the way, Oh yeah, I
Speaker 1: have to keep don't know. But there was the hair
Speaker 1: before I got don't occupied at all. I like it.
Speaker 1: I watched a video of you from nineteen either from
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine or nineteen seventy, and everybody in the
Speaker 1: group had the best hots. You weren't wearing a hot
Speaker 1: everybody else had a hot. You had a mohawk. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember that. I always try to do so weird
Speaker 1: with the hair. You know. I was a barber I
Speaker 1: didn't know that. Tell me about your life before music,
Speaker 1: Oh gay Man, nineteen fifty six, we started the group, okay,
Speaker 1: thirteen years old. We started the group because of you know,
Speaker 1: like Frankie Lyman and the teenages, you know what, the
Speaker 1: foostball and love dwop was the main music. Yeah, dua
Speaker 1: was the music in New Jersey, and so I started
Speaker 1: a group and one of the first things you had
Speaker 1: to do in the group in those days was getta
Speaker 1: do you know you're here with the waves in it.
Speaker 1: We couldn't go to the barbershop, didn't get done because
Speaker 1: it's cost too much. So we learned to do each
Speaker 1: other's head. So while we was learning to sing in
Speaker 1: duop right up in the fifteen nineteen fifty nine, were
Speaker 1: working in the barbershop, singing at the Saint and rehearsing
Speaker 1: in the barbershop the Miracles smoking, the miracles come out,
Speaker 1: you know, the motown thing come out. So that was
Speaker 1: our destination from then on to be on Motown, singing
Speaker 1: duop and doing each other's head looking like the Temptations.
Speaker 1: We did exactly that from fifteen nine to like sixty six.
Speaker 1: When we got our first hit record, I just want
Speaker 1: to Testify incredible in Detroit, you know, after working for Motown,
Speaker 1: you know, Joe Bett most of that time, you know,
Speaker 1: as a writer, we weren't signed to you know, we
Speaker 1: never got a record out on the label. We were
Speaker 1: signed to the label for a minute, but we didn't
Speaker 1: get a record out. But the competition right down the street,
Speaker 1: Golden World from Motown. I got a job there and
Speaker 1: I recorded I Just want to Testify, and that became
Speaker 1: the hit of Detroit, you know, and we were like
Speaker 1: the competition for a minute, but we immediately changed, I
Speaker 1: don't think because it was too late. By then, the
Speaker 1: European invasion was happening, you know, it was, and the
Speaker 1: rollings on Beatles and led Zeppelins and all of that
Speaker 1: was happening. So we realized then because we had a
Speaker 1: real good backup band, which was like our little brothers,
Speaker 1: Eddie Hazel, Billy Nelson, your Tiki Fullwood, Tyle Ross and
Speaker 1: Bernie Warrell. But those were the first ones that we
Speaker 1: did for years they were called Funkadelic, But before Funkadelic,
Speaker 1: it was the Parliament's that star it in New Jersey, right,
Speaker 1: Because I think of you as Detroit, I don't think
Speaker 1: of you as New Jersey. When did you make the move? No,
Speaker 1: it started in New Jersey in the barbershop in New
Speaker 1: Jersey while I was doing these other that's when it started.
Speaker 1: At let's talk more about duop. I never made the
Speaker 1: connection because you said you did each other's hair. It's
Speaker 1: the name duop. Does it come from the dude? Is
Speaker 1: that why it's called duop? No, it was a dude, duop, dude, dude,
Speaker 1: But just so happened the dudes. You know, getting your
Speaker 1: head done was what it was called, getting the dude.
Speaker 1: So it did come close to that, but you related
Speaker 1: it together. That was the style. Remember that King Cole
Speaker 1: and his whole Bobby Sugar, Ray Robinson, those waves. That
Speaker 1: was the current style back in those days. So you
Speaker 1: if you're gonna go into the Apollo, you better have
Speaker 1: had to have a dude. You know, everybody was cool.
Speaker 1: You know on Friday, even you got that dude, your
Speaker 1: head was laid. And that was the style. When we
Speaker 1: think of a barbershop quartet, now you go, that's essentially duop.
Speaker 1: Even the gospel versions of that was basically the background
Speaker 1: singers singing the things that the bass player would play
Speaker 1: with the drummer. You know what I'm saying. They were
Speaker 1: singing the musical parts, who do up? Who do up?
Speaker 1: They would do the harmonies and singing the instrument parts,
Speaker 1: and that was basically duop. You know, you had a
Speaker 1: lot of acapellas that didn't even use music at all.
Speaker 1: You know, like if you ever remember Take six, Yeah,
Speaker 1: remember there was like experts on singing all the party,
Speaker 1: Bobby mcphern, that's basically I mean, you take the essence
Speaker 1: of du wop and making it all the way into jazz.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's what duop basically was. We were singing
Speaker 1: in the barber shop. That's when we rehearsed that. In
Speaker 1: New Jersey. Was it always four or five in the
Speaker 1: duop group or it didn't have to be that, It
Speaker 1: didn't have to be that. But if five was basically
Speaker 1: saying that, then you got like the impressions they went.
Speaker 1: They took it to the three. You know, you had
Speaker 1: Gladys Knight and the Pips, who was four, but the
Speaker 1: three background was like a group by themselves, even though
Speaker 1: that he was backing her up, they were like another
Speaker 1: whole group. Did they come out of duop? Gladys Night, Yes,
Speaker 1: oh they then first things would have been like it
Speaker 1: was on Fury Records, would have been like it's in
Speaker 1: that sixty Yeah. So in the duop it was still happening. Yes,
Speaker 1: you know, Motown just slicked it up a little bit.
Speaker 1: It was still duop, you know, the tempts and all that,
Speaker 1: but they just slicked it up, you know, with the
Speaker 1: strings in the instrumentation. Motown took due up to the
Speaker 1: next level. What was the first duop do we know? No,
Speaker 1: that would have been in the forties. That would have
Speaker 1: been in the forties, I mean the ink spots, you know.
Speaker 1: Lewis Jordan would have been one of my favorite of
Speaker 1: that era that his was like du wop big band
Speaker 1: like count basically in Duke Ellington all that. Lewis Jordan
Speaker 1: was like the funk band of that era and they
Speaker 1: did a lot of duop type stuff. But do but dup.
Speaker 1: I think of duop as a vocal group. I don't
Speaker 1: think of the band as part of duop, Like the
Speaker 1: band is a backing band and the group are the singers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but they kind of like did both of that. Lewis
Speaker 1: Jordan kind of like did like we did in Parliament Funkadelic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they had the singing and the big the band part
Speaker 1: like U Ta. Sun Rock did duop. Most people don't
Speaker 1: know it he did before he went out of space.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. There's a collection of Sunrone records
Speaker 1: out of Chicago where he was doing basic duop groups.
Speaker 1: You know when the Deals first started. Yeah, they were.
Speaker 1: They were like big in fifty four, the DALs over
Speaker 1: the Night and that stuff. They redid it in the seventies,
Speaker 1: but they were like one of the groups around when
Speaker 1: we was still around seventies that we compared our stuffs too,
Speaker 1: because we had both been there a long time. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about what a big doop group was, because now
Speaker 1: when we think of what a big group is in music,
Speaker 1: it's different today than it was then. What would be
Speaker 1: a big doop group? How many people would they get
Speaker 1: to play too? What would that be like? Tell me
Speaker 1: okay your eyes aspirations. Basically it was Cocavanna or the Vegas.
Speaker 1: That's all they thought about at that point, and you
Speaker 1: would have gotten like the Platters, Flamingos, Moolows I mean,
Speaker 1: Franky Lamon and teenagers. They they went away to like
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson. They got to that level international and they
Speaker 1: were a group. They didn't even have festivals then, so
Speaker 1: it was big. It was a big club. Basically, it
Speaker 1: was as big as it god and that was cool.
Speaker 1: We were probably ourselves in slash Stones, probably the first
Speaker 1: one that started playing to you know, black bands. They
Speaker 1: started playing to the arenas like the Soldiers Field and things,
Speaker 1: you know, and that would have been over into the seventies,
Speaker 1: but we started in the sixties along with the Ted Nude,
Speaker 1: Amboy Dudes, iggy Pop. We all was from Detroit with
Speaker 1: the same agent. So we played festivals in anne Arbor
Speaker 1: in Toronto, in places like that, you know, of the
Speaker 1: rock and roll side, you know. We was called the
Speaker 1: Bad Boys of anne Arbor at one time Funkadelic when
Speaker 1: we put out Free Your Mind and ass would follow up.
Speaker 1: Mama went in Maggot Brain. Basically when Maggot Brain came out,
Speaker 1: we played all the rock festivals. Why did you move
Speaker 1: to Detroit Motown? I see. The thing was was to
Speaker 1: get out there to record with the Motown sound you
Speaker 1: know musicians, And we went out there and I started
Speaker 1: writing with one of the competitive companies, which Motown bought out. Later,
Speaker 1: I started writing for them, and they did the Edwin
Speaker 1: Stars and you know, Dall Banks, stuff like that in parliaments,
Speaker 1: the parliaments still, you know, we did first records with them,
Speaker 1: and that's where we got our first hit. But that
Speaker 1: the time we got to Detroit, you moved out to
Speaker 1: want to join Motown. Yes, become part of that situation,
Speaker 1: which I see the same way people see hip hop today.
Speaker 1: That's the way it was to be at Motown. I
Speaker 1: tell you what, I'm going back and forth to Detroit.
Speaker 1: You know. I go to Detroit, do the week Monday
Speaker 1: to Friday. I go back to New Jersey and I'm
Speaker 1: working to barbershop Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and I'm and
Speaker 1: I go back to Detroit, you know, to write and
Speaker 1: stuff with Motown. I do that for a year and
Speaker 1: a half a thing, and then we get a hip record.
Speaker 1: I do the last record that I do for the
Speaker 1: Golden World. This guy's getting ready to sell the company
Speaker 1: to Motown. I do the last record for them, and
Speaker 1: I leave and go back to the barber shop. I'm
Speaker 1: there two weeks before the record comes out on the
Speaker 1: biggest station in the country, which was ckl W and
Speaker 1: w ABC in New York and I had no idea
Speaker 1: it was coming out. And when everybody started hearing on
Speaker 1: radio saying your record is out, and that was the
Speaker 1: I want to testify, which became the smashup that you know,
Speaker 1: sixty seven along with Beetles, um Geergeant, Jimmy Hendrix, the
Speaker 1: Cream and those was one imprinted in my brain from
Speaker 1: then on when that became a hit, and those were
Speaker 1: the records that came out with it, you know. And
Speaker 1: right after that, sly Stone came out. Before we left Plainfield,
Speaker 1: his manager got to Dave Kaepolick, that was his manager,
Speaker 1: told us that, you know, we were good, but he
Speaker 1: had a group called Sliding the family. Stone was blah
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and I had to brighten up because
Speaker 1: we were too dark, you know, in our concepts, and
Speaker 1: he was actually I managed for a minute. We was
Speaker 1: on Stone Records with Dave Catholick managed for a minute
Speaker 1: and then Slat broke big. We went to Detroit. We
Speaker 1: had when we had that the hit single out, but
Speaker 1: we went separate ways for a minute because years get
Speaker 1: to that later. So I want to ask you about
Speaker 1: the commuting between New Jersey and Detroit for getting Motown
Speaker 1: for a minute. How different was just your experience of
Speaker 1: life in those two places or was it the same?
Speaker 1: And how would you say they were different worlds? Like this,
Speaker 1: I work in the barbershop in New Jersey, so you're
Speaker 1: dealing with New Harlem and they're like the first one
Speaker 1: that was doing those processes. Not the first, but the
Speaker 1: one that what we call elevated to where we were
Speaker 1: looking smooth and soft and natural and really fly as
Speaker 1: opposed to it's still being done and being hard and
Speaker 1: you know, glue to your head. So that was my
Speaker 1: only way of looking at it. There was lots of
Speaker 1: what they called players in Detroit, Cleveland. They was like
Speaker 1: preoccupied with that former lifestyle New York, New Jersey though
Speaker 1: we thought we was cooler with that lifestyle, same lifestyle,
Speaker 1: but just thought you was cooler in it. So I
Speaker 1: had to analyze going back and forth to you know,
Speaker 1: the players in Detroit and the players in the barbish
Speaker 1: chops around New Jersey who subdued it a little bit,
Speaker 1: and um you did to deal with what's called it
Speaker 1: abducing a quarter being the desired car as opposed to
Speaker 1: um El Dorado or Mercedes. You know what I'm saying
Speaker 1: being the car of choice. But Motown was there, which
Speaker 1: made the difference. You know, everything at Motown in my
Speaker 1: head was the who is in the world. No matter what,
Speaker 1: we just we just had to change their hairstyles. Yes,
Speaker 1: could Motown have happened to anywhere else? Or do you
Speaker 1: think that the nature of Detroit had something to do
Speaker 1: with Motown blossoming? I think it has something to do,
Speaker 1: you know, with the city in that whole factory car
Speaker 1: company thing, you know, and it's just been that place.
Speaker 1: When Chicago started like that, they just didn't get one
Speaker 1: place to zone in like Motown did. Like a lot
Speaker 1: of the records came out of Chicago, but they were
Speaker 1: different labels, And the same thing could have happened in
Speaker 1: Minneapolis when prison all of them were together. It's always
Speaker 1: been how do you keep it together? Because the industry
Speaker 1: aint going to let you keep it together. You know,
Speaker 1: the main thing is to break it up and get
Speaker 1: whoever's big, and everybody want to be big, so it's
Speaker 1: you know, kind of easier to get the good people
Speaker 1: and giving them some money and they lead before you
Speaker 1: get to a Motown guy. Motown was magic. It was
Speaker 1: like so magic. The particular band, you think of it
Speaker 1: like all the musicians, the one that played on it
Speaker 1: was unbelievable because then all those singers was like one
Speaker 1: big fan. That was like the first Motown the review
Speaker 1: were all those superstars was on the same buses. It's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know. It was like college. Yeah, everybody sharing
Speaker 1: information back and forth. And yeah, I mean and at
Speaker 1: that particular time, which was the sixties, school was happening,
Speaker 1: College was happening. A lot of kids in college was
Speaker 1: sharing knowledge all over the planet. We have to pause
Speaker 1: for a quick break here, but then we'll be back
Speaker 1: with more from Rick Rubin and George Clinton. We're back
Speaker 1: with Rick Rubin's conversation with George Clinton. It's interesting that
Speaker 1: your first song was Testify. Testify as is a word
Speaker 1: that I associate with church. Was there a spiritual component
Speaker 1: for music for you? From the beginning, I was around
Speaker 1: um barbershop a group called the Gospel Clefts. They rehearsed
Speaker 1: there and to see the show in the vibe that
Speaker 1: they would put on was unbelievable. It was like the
Speaker 1: coasters in church, and that that always let me know
Speaker 1: that that was the root of all the music, no
Speaker 1: matter what the tone was that was the root. So
Speaker 1: that vibe you know rap from to get to God
Speaker 1: Up was always the vibe of you know, church like
Speaker 1: I can remember the Staple singers or Mahellia Jackson that
Speaker 1: stuff when you know, waking up the breakfast too, and
Speaker 1: it sounds like hit records to this day when I
Speaker 1: go to Texas, all the all the bands, all the
Speaker 1: funk bands is in Texas and church. Yeah, all the
Speaker 1: best players, all the best musicians, absolutely, yeah, the best.
Speaker 1: So in the Detroit scene, how was the Motown world
Speaker 1: and the Detroit rock world part of the same thing
Speaker 1: when you were there, did you feel like it was
Speaker 1: all part of one thing or did it feel like
Speaker 1: the Motown thing is really separate from like the Ted
Speaker 1: Nugents and the and the Iggy's. When we got that
Speaker 1: funk and Testifi was out, we bridged that one instantly
Speaker 1: because Motown was already like a Motown played with those
Speaker 1: groups on shoulder with them, but we were immediately a
Speaker 1: funk psychedelic band, So it changed immediately at first. By
Speaker 1: the time Ted Nugent in Iggy Pop MC five, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it was merging right there. Would everyone play
Speaker 1: at the same clubs like with someone on Motown and
Speaker 1: MC five play at the same venue we did. We
Speaker 1: played with MC five and all of them, and they
Speaker 1: were separate R and B venues. Oh yeah, except for
Speaker 1: like the Rooster, tell you that's where pop and R
Speaker 1: and B played, The Fox, Pop in RB played. You know,
Speaker 1: most of those kind of places. The theater is everybody
Speaker 1: played there. What would you call the first funk record
Speaker 1: from anybody? Oh god, it would be, but it would
Speaker 1: have to be one of those blues things that you
Speaker 1: know it's in forties. Those are basically punk records, most
Speaker 1: of them. I look at, uh, you know the New
Speaker 1: Orleans stuff, you know, the Motown early records, James Jamison,
Speaker 1: those basslines, everything. They just had so much string on
Speaker 1: top that it was music for young America. That was
Speaker 1: the name. That was their theme. Their music, if you
Speaker 1: the basic rhythm tracks, was the funkiest thing that there was.
Speaker 1: That's what made us. That's who called us the Funk Brothers.
Speaker 1: They called us the Young Funk Brothers. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: backup band, and that's why we named it funka Deli.
Speaker 1: They had a New Orleans vibe on it, but Motown
Speaker 1: had its own chord changes with it. But basically everything
Speaker 1: they did, you know, was seriously funky pop. Nobody identified
Speaker 1: it with funk because we came along. We did it. Basically,
Speaker 1: we went to real raw funk, the simple lines, chants
Speaker 1: and extremely you know slow. What's the first time you
Speaker 1: were ever aware of James Brown? Please please and try
Speaker 1: me those two. I mean, as you know, they were
Speaker 1: like blues songs, but you see, you can feel the
Speaker 1: vibe in it that it was dead. But when he
Speaker 1: started doing Papa Gotta Ran New Bag, from that point
Speaker 1: on it was something else. You know, That's when you
Speaker 1: start seeing bands pop up that imitate him. You know,
Speaker 1: once they got to that point, he was like he
Speaker 1: was like a TikTok artist. Every city you go to,
Speaker 1: you can find a band that could perfect his show
Speaker 1: so good that they could actually substitute us. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I mean I knew some band
Speaker 1: it was more James Brown than James Brown. But the
Speaker 1: work that they had to put in to get those
Speaker 1: horn precision. I mean, you watch May She'll do it
Speaker 1: with us, You watch him do it with Prince Fred
Speaker 1: did the same thing. But the account basic they all bootsy,
Speaker 1: I mean, came our whole style. You know, from the
Speaker 1: Funk Funkadelic, like we were doing Funk first to the
Speaker 1: Parliament new stuff when we did Chocolate City up for
Speaker 1: the downstroke than Mothership and all of that, and it
Speaker 1: was still he brought the hornie horns, you know. Then
Speaker 1: with me and Bernie Warrell being a classically trained keyboardist,
Speaker 1: was able to have them played horn parts but with
Speaker 1: that same kind of precision. So it was like we
Speaker 1: had two or three generations of styles, you know, the
Speaker 1: Jimmy Hendricks, the James Brown, the Motown in Parliament funk
Speaker 1: up all at one time, you know, And that's what
Speaker 1: we were having, like ten albums out at one in
Speaker 1: a year with all the of the same people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I always wanted to know about why, why the different
Speaker 1: band names and why the different labels, How did that happen?
Speaker 1: And was it on purpose? And tell me about it.
Speaker 1: It was the only way to get everybody, says about
Speaker 1: everybody wanted to be upfront start, So whoever was the
Speaker 1: gotta hit, that's who we all become. We was a
Speaker 1: backup band for the ads and you know, saying it
Speaker 1: didn't matter at the time, we realized that it was
Speaker 1: hard from one act to survive after you know, seeing
Speaker 1: you know, Motown get to its peak, we realized we
Speaker 1: had to have them on different labels and know that
Speaker 1: where you could accommodate all the new acts that was
Speaker 1: coming up behind us that we had, We had loads
Speaker 1: more in a way. You did what basically how the
Speaker 1: Funk Brothers was the root of all of the Motown.
Speaker 1: You did your own version of that, but instead of
Speaker 1: building a label, you had artists at all the different labels. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know like Wotan did it right after us. Yes,
Speaker 1: and they stayed together as a group and was all
Speaker 1: on the thing. That was what we would you know,
Speaker 1: telling do had anyone done that before? You? Not? Not
Speaker 1: that many, I tell you, Phil Specter did. Remember he
Speaker 1: had that Darlene love song on everybody's record, and they
Speaker 1: had all the groups, the Crystals, you know, all the
Speaker 1: Royal raw teams and and Ike and Tina did it
Speaker 1: a little bit, remember that I gets in Ike and Tina. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they didn't, but we just spreaded it out a lot
Speaker 1: further because that's you them was was starred themselves as
Speaker 1: you know as the Jabs. We named him the Horny Horns,
Speaker 1: and they were already their own stars. So it was
Speaker 1: easy and Bootsy was Bootsy, so we made him into Bootzilla.
Speaker 1: We made him an instant star right from the get go.
Speaker 1: You know in Parliament Funk that we had built our
Speaker 1: reputation as the psychedelic band. So it was when the
Speaker 1: mother Ship happened. It was like we had a ship
Speaker 1: with all these acts on the The backup girls would
Speaker 1: become the Parletts and the brides. Was there a particular
Speaker 1: their inspiration for going psychedelic or was it more the
Speaker 1: whole movement or were there any like key artists were like,
Speaker 1: we need to do something more like this. We had
Speaker 1: a friend that worked with us, Jimmy Miller. He was
Speaker 1: the producer the Rolling Stones. Eventually we used to practice
Speaker 1: out Due our thing and we recorded some records with
Speaker 1: him and a guy named Jimmy Fallon, And just as
Speaker 1: we got our first record together, we gave it to
Speaker 1: New to Brunswick Records. They released the demo We Game
Speaker 1: on Jackie Wilson. He went on to do a group
Speaker 1: called Spencer Davis give Me Some Loving even on the
Speaker 1: Due Traffic. Stevie. Now this was like my partner. We
Speaker 1: wrote together and I saw what they had did with
Speaker 1: with Spencer Davis, give me some loving and I'm a man,
Speaker 1: and I realized that's where it was going, that that,
Speaker 1: you know, rock and roll European type of thing. Then
Speaker 1: Jimmy's records came out. You know, we knew Jimmy Jamie
Speaker 1: in the Flames, you know, with King Curtis, and you
Speaker 1: know you knew him as a gut top where that
Speaker 1: did tricks play. He came out with all you experience
Speaker 1: that wouldn't let me know we had to do something
Speaker 1: like that. And the edit was about fifteen years old
Speaker 1: and he was experimented with to get to be just
Speaker 1: He could play blues to death, so it was easy
Speaker 1: for him to get the gadgets and do it. Were
Speaker 1: you ever aware of Arthur Lee and Love at any point? Yep?
Speaker 1: That was Slides heroes really, yeah, that was his heroes,
Speaker 1: the Love Family. Yeah, yeah, that was Slide. He put
Speaker 1: me onto them. What's the first time you got to
Speaker 1: meet and see Slide? The first time? Like I told
Speaker 1: the manager, David Kaeperlick was his manager and our manager.
Speaker 1: He invited me to see Slide in the East Village
Speaker 1: and how was it? It was through that place away?
Speaker 1: Plus of all you know, at that time, you know,
Speaker 1: you tripping your ass off. You know, he played that
Speaker 1: and told that place down, and I'm trying to think
Speaker 1: he played another club that same weekend and it was unbelievable.
Speaker 1: He told that place up. That sounds great. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's I think he had. It was a dance to
Speaker 1: the music out that was, you know, and that simple song.
Speaker 1: When that came out, it was all over. For all
Speaker 1: the different scenes that you've seen. So you've you've witnessed
Speaker 1: the dwop scene, you witnessed the birth of the funk scene,
Speaker 1: You've witnessed the birth of g funk. He've witnessed the
Speaker 1: birth of hip hop before. For that, would you say
Speaker 1: that there's a similarity between these things that happen or
Speaker 1: is each one of them really different? It's a similarity.
Speaker 1: It's a similarity. You know. It gets to that point
Speaker 1: where it peaqus and it's people. Somebody started changing it
Speaker 1: and you don't think it's the music at first, but
Speaker 1: then sudden it takes over. It becomes the new music,
Speaker 1: and it works, it becomes the thing, and a new
Speaker 1: one comes along. Whenever I hear something like PA, you
Speaker 1: know that was a do out play and when you
Speaker 1: hear people explaining about what that ain't music but you're
Speaker 1: talking about And then then you get to a few
Speaker 1: years later it's the same thing. Yeah, it all gets
Speaker 1: to a point of sophistication that the kids have to
Speaker 1: take over again and bring it back to elementary so
Speaker 1: you can go somewhere else. You know, it gets to
Speaker 1: that peak and everybody gets sophisticated and get jazzy or
Speaker 1: whatever the off our guard thing is. And then some
Speaker 1: kids will come along and do something so dumb, get
Speaker 1: get on your nerve, but it becomes the new ship
Speaker 1: that you if you want to stay around, you better
Speaker 1: pick them on how they're doing it. It makes it
Speaker 1: fun again. It's like it gets fun again. It makes
Speaker 1: it fun again. You know, whenever I hear somebody that,
Speaker 1: like I said, you know, my nerve for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: if it get on the good enough, I know it's
Speaker 1: for the good. I know I need to pay attention.
Speaker 1: Did you ever get into go Go DC go go?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah, I give a good so on.
Speaker 1: One of the first things chuck them Chuck Browning and
Speaker 1: the soul searches. One of the first things they did
Speaker 1: was I don't care about the cold baby, when You're hot,
Speaker 1: You're too much, when you hut, You're hut. That was
Speaker 1: from one of our songs called Up for the Downstream. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know that record. I used to DJ that record
Speaker 1: all the time. That was the That was the birth
Speaker 1: of their version of the Go Go. Then they used
Speaker 1: to vamp on that part and our drummer, Ticky Food,
Speaker 1: we used to play with them and nothing I can
Speaker 1: said it was. It was the Soul Searchers, you know,
Speaker 1: at that time, and they did that group with everything
Speaker 1: after that. Yeah, they did everything with that beat after
Speaker 1: that worked so thoroughly they could do. We used to
Speaker 1: do the same thing with the group Mama with the
Speaker 1: Whoa Hi, Hey, whoa Hi. We did that for the
Speaker 1: entire show, like doing the early seventies. All our songs
Speaker 1: would be in that beat and we just changed the
Speaker 1: melody of the lyrics and the beat of the lick,
Speaker 1: but the pocket would stayed the same. We did that
Speaker 1: and it sound like we did one song all night
Speaker 1: with different themes than it. It sounds great though, because
Speaker 1: it creates this like hypnosis you get. The pocket just
Speaker 1: keeps getting deeper and deeper and it turns into something else,
Speaker 1: you know, even without changing, it turns into something else
Speaker 1: without changing. Well, James Brown could do that forever. But
Speaker 1: one of the best was Failor Couter see Failer from Nigeria.
Speaker 1: They play in the morning to the evening and it'd
Speaker 1: be that same pose all day. But you know, I
Speaker 1: know there was something that was changing, but it was
Speaker 1: always that groove. Yeah. Instead of one nation undergroove, it's
Speaker 1: one groove over the nation, really over the planet. Now
Speaker 1: we have to take another quick break and then we'll
Speaker 1: be back with more from George Clinton. We're back with
Speaker 1: the rest of Rick Rubin's conversation with the legend George Clinton. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's amazing the power of a groove. I think that's
Speaker 1: for me. That's the thing that separates funk from the
Speaker 1: music that came before it is that the music that
Speaker 1: came before it relied on the melody, relied on the words.
Speaker 1: But once once we got to the groove being the
Speaker 1: dominant element of the music where it didn't even matter
Speaker 1: if if it was a song on top, because a lot,
Speaker 1: I mean for a lot of James Brown songs, they're interchangeable.
Speaker 1: It's just the groove. Yeah, Yeah, James, James could switch
Speaker 1: from one groove to the other one so precise that
Speaker 1: you forgot about the first groove instantly. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: They can change timpoles and things and in one and
Speaker 1: start another one when a scene in it, but a
Speaker 1: complete different field. It was almost like a drum machine. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Matter of fact, the drum machine enhanced the grooves a lot.
Speaker 1: Once um one thing he was able to lock in
Speaker 1: on the clock. With the drum machine, you could group
Speaker 1: yours because you knew that wasn't gonna change, and you
Speaker 1: can just write everything around it, which is uh had
Speaker 1: a lot to do with a lot of what hip
Speaker 1: hop was doing. Once they was able to do that
Speaker 1: lock in those samples with those beats and you know what,
Speaker 1: it was gonna stay. But the beats per minuted and
Speaker 1: all of that. You could just do any kind of
Speaker 1: pocket over top of that, and if you got a
Speaker 1: good you know, rhythm in your voice and like somebody
Speaker 1: like say rock him, I mean he was the smooth
Speaker 1: as I know against the beats that that they lock into.
Speaker 1: Did you ever get to meet James? Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: what was he like? I never got to meet him.
Speaker 1: It was funny when I first met the Chili Peppers,
Speaker 1: James myself. Madonna was on a pound together for silverman
Speaker 1: Um New Music Seminar Music Seminar, right, and that's where
Speaker 1: the Chili Peppers said. James and I was on the
Speaker 1: panels together, and I tried to be cocky and you know,
Speaker 1: say something funny. So I say, James Brown, give me
Speaker 1: eighteen splits, and Mama goat up and did eighteen splits. Wow,
Speaker 1: and then said George Clinton, give me two. I got
Speaker 1: one of them. I couldn't get up on my nuts
Speaker 1: now that the first time, you know, Flee and Anthony
Speaker 1: and him asked me what I do a record with him?
Speaker 1: Was that a fun experience for you? Working with those guys?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it was fun. You know. They came
Speaker 1: out to the farm and they were like really kids,
Speaker 1: you know, and I forgot what it was like to
Speaker 1: be really kids. And at the time, you know, I
Speaker 1: guess they had they a little fan club. People knew
Speaker 1: him about then already, and so I had to get
Speaker 1: them into talenting for the weekend and let him out
Speaker 1: of the weekend do our recording and let him out
Speaker 1: and then they go party in Detroit. That's great, but
Speaker 1: we had lots of fun. I think it was fleeing out,
Speaker 1: went to see a Wreatha. Wow, you know, friend of
Speaker 1: mine took us in his white roses pimp player and
Speaker 1: they they were just having the fun of their life
Speaker 1: and took us and took him to meet a Wreatha
Speaker 1: and a sister at ball And was it a concert
Speaker 1: or was it more like a regular thing where she
Speaker 1: would just get up sometimes? No? No, this was this
Speaker 1: was a contrt because she was really being and hunt
Speaker 1: at that time. In a matter of fact, her and
Speaker 1: Annie Lennox did a record during that same period of
Speaker 1: sisters doing it for themselves or something. Yeah, they did
Speaker 1: that record, matter of fact, in the same studio at
Speaker 1: the same time we were there. There was some crossover
Speaker 1: between musicians between James's band and your band. How did that?
Speaker 1: How did those things come about? Um? Boots Boots. He
Speaker 1: had been with James and they was called the house
Speaker 1: guests when we ran into him, and that was the
Speaker 1: rhythm sector, him and his brother in the rhythm section.
Speaker 1: And I guess they just left James about six months
Speaker 1: or so, and they the girls, Mallian Franklin said, just
Speaker 1: got bootsy. He looked like a funka Delhi And so
Speaker 1: she brought him around him we've met, and Danny looked
Speaker 1: definitely looked like a funka Delhi, And then we played
Speaker 1: a show and he came around hung out, and then
Speaker 1: we just got together and did a couple of that
Speaker 1: up for the Downstake album. We did some songs for that,
Speaker 1: and by the next time we get rid of to
Speaker 1: the next record, you say, Mason and Fred, Michelle and
Speaker 1: Fred had left until he called him and to do
Speaker 1: the session. They all had left. James by the time that, um,
Speaker 1: they came around. There wasn't never There wasn't no thing
Speaker 1: between me and James about that. A lot of people
Speaker 1: thought that there was some words or something. Now we
Speaker 1: actually recorded together him, Boots and myself and Gary Cooper afterwards,
Speaker 1: you know, after that came out on the Family series.
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, we never had any He's funny dude,
Speaker 1: but he was. He was mister Brown. Did you call
Speaker 1: him mister Brown? No, I'm not called him James. He
Speaker 1: was kind of scary. He thought I was crazy. Michelle
Speaker 1: told him, Joe, he think you're crazy, skinner, use it.
Speaker 1: Don't let him out the hook man. So I always
Speaker 1: always played crazy around him, you know, like a Slide
Speaker 1: would wear him out. Though Slide would pick you know,
Speaker 1: we pick out him, you know, just the hell of it.
Speaker 1: You know, I think Roger and Boots, what's calling the
Speaker 1: mister Brown? And Slide would be like, ain't called him, no,
Speaker 1: mister Brown. Let call you Henna call you mister Brown.
Speaker 1: They gonna call me mister Oh. He was a clown.
Speaker 1: That's so funny. I'm gonna tell you a funny story.
Speaker 1: This is probably I don't know. I'm gonna say eighteen
Speaker 1: or so years ago, a friend of mine came to
Speaker 1: my house and he said, I want to show you
Speaker 1: this new thing and it was YouTube. I'd never heard
Speaker 1: of YouTube. It was just in its infant see and
Speaker 1: he said, I want to show you this thing. And
Speaker 1: then the first video he showed me was Funkadelic from
Speaker 1: it seemed like even older than the thing that I said,
Speaker 1: with the hots like it was in a like a
Speaker 1: local TV station maybe in Detroit, Cleveland, Cleveland. It was unbelievable.
Speaker 1: And that was my introduction to YouTube, was that video.
Speaker 1: And it made me love YouTube like it was. It
Speaker 1: wasn't that YouTube was great. It was that I got
Speaker 1: to see this funkadelic thing that I didn't never knew existed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's when I was crawling around on the floor. Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: That was in Boston. That's a Brothers or something like that.
Speaker 1: But the other one, just like that, is Upbeat in Cleveland, Ohio.
Speaker 1: It looked like it was on a TV set, but
Speaker 1: we was playing live. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. It was incredible.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, that was that was we actually did those
Speaker 1: kind of shows live on on regular TVs because you know,
Speaker 1: its psychedelic. You can actually get away with that, you know.
Speaker 1: And then there's another video that they came that came
Speaker 1: out years later. It was a cosmic slot. We was
Speaker 1: in Central Park, running through the tunnels in the city.
Speaker 1: You know. It was that was like we were tripping
Speaker 1: the I ass off and that they never came out
Speaker 1: to years later to you know, years after that record
Speaker 1: was out, but it's one of the first things you
Speaker 1: see on as Funkadelic when you look up on YouTube. Now,
Speaker 1: has it always been fun making music for you? Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean even now dealing with my grandkids and figuring
Speaker 1: out how they do that, the new things and being
Speaker 1: a part of that with Oh yeah, that's the fun
Speaker 1: part of it. Trying to come up with some different
Speaker 1: being being involved. How did the idea for changing the
Speaker 1: song structures, because like, coming from duop, song structures were
Speaker 1: more traditional. And then when when you moved into funk,
Speaker 1: it broke free. Tell me about that, Well that was it,
Speaker 1: you know, coming from all those songwriting days of the fifties.
Speaker 1: You know, you had to write a structured song, two
Speaker 1: verses of bridge and another version out. That started changing
Speaker 1: when they started becoming having your own band, especially if
Speaker 1: you've around when Jimmy was playing, or Grateful Dead or
Speaker 1: all those groups. Was just rock and roll into the
Speaker 1: you trip it out, need to wake up and go
Speaker 1: to sleep with music playing and wake up at the
Speaker 1: same song playing. That was the whole thing of the
Speaker 1: rock and roll grooved. And then when we got back
Speaker 1: into funk from the James Brown point, you know, only
Speaker 1: one and that was back into the you know, the
Speaker 1: long pockets and Boost had a lot of changes in
Speaker 1: the songs that I would take out you don't have
Speaker 1: to record. He liked a lot of breaks, you know,
Speaker 1: but that pocket I fell in love with, and then
Speaker 1: that just became the thing, just trying to make it
Speaker 1: loop by itself, you know, get into a loop and then,
Speaker 1: like I said, when the hip hop came and could
Speaker 1: only focus on the one, you know everything, the example
Speaker 1: was in you Know one too, you know even time
Speaker 1: and no beat breaks, and so that made you really
Speaker 1: lock into the one. But you know, by the time
Speaker 1: we did something like Atomic Dog, we could go crazy
Speaker 1: around the track. Even though it was backwards, we could
Speaker 1: still It's still that group. That's like one of the
Speaker 1: hardest groups that we have, you know, it's the Atomic Dog.
Speaker 1: We just did another version on the que Dog version
Speaker 1: of Tommy Dog. It is phenomenal. Way to you see
Speaker 1: this thing, I can't wait video is crazy in some ways. Also,
Speaker 1: disco was another movement that really unified the pocket. It
Speaker 1: was the whole movement was about the pocket. The same pocket,
Speaker 1: danceable pocket again. That's where it like that like a
Speaker 1: drum machine came in and locked it one he wants
Speaker 1: to That was, you know, all of the trump music
Speaker 1: like that came in with a pocket. After that, you mean,
Speaker 1: like the disco I should like a remember Fly Robin Fly, Yeah,
Speaker 1: sil Silvil conventions that stuff like Blew Me Away, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I Feel Love, Donna Summer, Donna Summers. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: we just with Neil at that time. So we had
Speaker 1: a thing going with with Neil, Donna, Summer's Kiss and Ourselves. Wow.
Speaker 1: You know, that was his new label. That's when he
Speaker 1: had just thought his new label, you know. And I
Speaker 1: had been knowing him since his Buddha days, so we
Speaker 1: knew we had the thing captured with him because he
Speaker 1: had the promotion and we had a spaceship and we
Speaker 1: had that pocket. Talk about how important radio was back then,
Speaker 1: well it was every radio was everything. You know, you
Speaker 1: had to go from the R and B and to cross.
Speaker 1: So when too, we were lucky. If you was in Detroit,
Speaker 1: there had been a good relationship between you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of R and B records in this label station KLW,
Speaker 1: which was in the Windsor. You know, if you got
Speaker 1: a good record in Detroit, you could get on Windsor
Speaker 1: and you had a good shot to get half of
Speaker 1: the country. Wow. So that's what Motown was doing. Everyone
Speaker 1: they put a record out and they got it going,
Speaker 1: They get it on k l W, and they was
Speaker 1: on the charts all over the country. We had a
Speaker 1: good relationship with stations myself because I went to the
Speaker 1: station with the distributor every time he took a record
Speaker 1: to to the legislation. I would go as a you know,
Speaker 1: guest artist and talked to the DJ and so I
Speaker 1: had a pretty good relation with them. So by the
Speaker 1: time we got back when Neil, what I want to
Speaker 1: say is when he come up with this label called
Speaker 1: Castle Blanca, we signed with him, Donna's signed with him,
Speaker 1: and Kiss. We all signed at the same time. And
Speaker 1: the first time he put out Donna's Kissed, it didn't
Speaker 1: work at first, but then we put out Chocolate City
Speaker 1: and Mothership it worked, and then Donna's worked, then Kiss
Speaker 1: the fan club. Things start working, you know, and the
Speaker 1: label was phenomenal. They're doing a movie of that right now,
Speaker 1: and which Collegia's playing myself. Oh great, that'll be great.
Speaker 1: My grandkids are in the movie. My kids are in
Speaker 1: the movie. They're playing Parliament Funkadelic. So cool. I can't
Speaker 1: wait to check that out. Yes next month. How did
Speaker 1: the concept for the Mothership come? What do you remember
Speaker 1: about that Pink Floyd? You know, I had watched them,
Speaker 1: you know, become so big with their production of their show,
Speaker 1: you know, and how long there was on the charts forever,
Speaker 1: you know, and I wanted to do something like that.
Speaker 1: Because Friends of Ours was in Remember to play here,
Speaker 1: Prince Bower was in the place. So I realized that
Speaker 1: we had to be more than a group. We had
Speaker 1: to be like a Broadway play or big production or
Speaker 1: something to elevate past the concept of being a band
Speaker 1: or group. And so I said, I wanted to get
Speaker 1: a prop that was bigger than did anything anybody had done.
Speaker 1: You know, Broadway was the when they found most of
Speaker 1: the props that So we got a guy, Jules Fisher,
Speaker 1: off a Broadway that was doing Broadway plays, to dud
Speaker 1: build the Mothership. And that's after I went to Neil
Speaker 1: No One. Neil was a promotion and promotion free and
Speaker 1: and you know, and we have a hit record already.
Speaker 1: The Mothership was a hit record, and we knew that,
Speaker 1: and we said, you get me a spaceship. I'll be
Speaker 1: able to bring the next two or three albums, you know,
Speaker 1: with the promotion of the spaceship. You know, he ain't
Speaker 1: gonlasted just one album, and he knew, he knew what
Speaker 1: I was saying, and he got hooked me over the bank,
Speaker 1: got me a collateral loan, and we got to the
Speaker 1: Spaceship and all the costuming was the explicit part of it,
Speaker 1: those leather costumes. We vote, was Sunrit inspirational at all?
Speaker 1: Or no? Oh yeah, definitely he was inspirational and the concept.
Speaker 1: But I was in the Star Trek already. I was
Speaker 1: a Star Trek freak for days. So it was about that.
Speaker 1: And then do the play. I knew it had to
Speaker 1: have a theme behind it. So the theme was to
Speaker 1: travel to bring the flunk to the planet, you know,
Speaker 1: and Sunri was doing that. A lot of jazz musicians
Speaker 1: was doing that, you know, intergalactic concept. And tell me
Speaker 1: about when did you first meet Bambada? Wow? You know
Speaker 1: he had to be he had to be about fourteen
Speaker 1: something like that, and that ever have been since seventy
Speaker 1: seven seventy six, wow, something like that. And I just
Speaker 1: know by the time we got the album about Uncle Jam.
Speaker 1: If you look on the back of Uncle Jam's album,
Speaker 1: we have the names about fans on that, you know,
Speaker 1: because we had a fan club for each city. And
Speaker 1: after about it is a b his name is first
Speaker 1: New York. Amazing years later when he thought when he
Speaker 1: thought without music, you know, we always connected like through
Speaker 1: the fan club thing. Already, I didn't know what the
Speaker 1: electronic go to hip hop thing they was doing yet
Speaker 1: I was just getting familiar with it, you know. It
Speaker 1: was like part electronic, part rap, part hip hop. I
Speaker 1: didn't know what they were calling it yet. Yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 1: we stayed in even when they got the Zulu Nation. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the Soul Sonic Force was very much inspired by
Speaker 1: by the Mothership very much. Yeah. They looked like they
Speaker 1: could have been in the band, in your band, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, Yeah. Isn't it amazing how like you're
Speaker 1: a fan of something that it inspires you, and then
Speaker 1: you make something new, and then when the new thing
Speaker 1: comes out, people think it's this new thing. There's never
Speaker 1: been anything like it. But all of the roots, like
Speaker 1: in all the things you've done, the roots of the
Speaker 1: things that are in it from before, whether it be
Speaker 1: Pink Floyd, which I never would have guessed in a
Speaker 1: million years, or Sunride, which I would have guessed because
Speaker 1: of space is the place. It's just amazing how through
Speaker 1: our love of these things we make something new. Now
Speaker 1: I'll tell you something else. You know, I've been doing
Speaker 1: paint lately, you know, fine art paint. Didn't know we're
Speaker 1: gonna be at the Mint with Blon Osley. She check
Speaker 1: her out. She's a new artist. Her theme is on
Speaker 1: the metaphor of the funk. You know, the pyramids with
Speaker 1: trumbipulated noses. It's gonna be at the Midas. Check it out.
Speaker 1: I definitely will. Beautiful cool Man. Well, it's a pleasure
Speaker 1: talking to you as always. Thanks Man, take care, I
Speaker 1: love you. I'll see you soon, see little Way. Thanks
Speaker 1: again to the one and only George Clinton for hopping
Speaker 1: on zoom with Rick. You can hear all of our
Speaker 1: favorite parliament Funkadelic and pe funk adjacent songs on the
Speaker 1: playlist at broken Record podcast dot com. You can subscribe
Speaker 1: to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken
Speaker 1: Record Podcast, where can find all of our new episodes.
Speaker 1: You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken
Speaker 1: Record is produced with Helpful Lea Rose, Jason Gambrell, Bentaladay,
Speaker 1: and Eric Sandler. Our editor is Sophie Crane. Broken Record
Speaker 1: is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this
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Speaker 1: Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.