Speaker 1: Seeing him as always brought a smile to me. And
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I was when I was when
Speaker 1: I just when he was just coming on tour and
Speaker 1: he was coming up, I said, Man, that's the guy.
Speaker 1: That's the guy I want to follow. Right there. He
Speaker 1: was so much fun to follow, uh. And as I said,
Speaker 1: I was just like a little kid around him. Put
Speaker 1: another log on the fire nobody here and get the time.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the fire Pit with Matt Chanella. I wish
Speaker 1: I didn't have to do this, but in this podcast
Speaker 1: we celebrate the life and legacy of Tom Weiscoff. Born
Speaker 1: in nineteen forty two in Massillon, Ohio, Wiskoff was the
Speaker 1: oldest of three kids. His father, a railroad worker, and
Speaker 1: his mother, Eva, both played golf. Weiskoff grew up in
Speaker 1: awe of Sam Snead and in the shadow of Jack
Speaker 1: Nicholas at Ohio State and on the PGA tour, so
Speaker 1: it's no wonder he had a lauded swing and game,
Speaker 1: nicknamed the Towering Inferno for his height six ft three
Speaker 1: inches and a bit of a temper. In his younger years,
Speaker 1: Weiskoff considered a fashion east had three careers in and
Speaker 1: around the game of golf, winner of sixteen PGA Tour events,
Speaker 1: one Open Championship in nineteen seventy three atroon he finished
Speaker 1: second and four Masters, was part of two winning Ryder
Speaker 1: Cup teams, and won a Senior US Open in beating
Speaker 1: Jack Nicholas at Congressional. In addition to playing golf, Wiskoff,
Speaker 1: who battled alcoholism and was sober since two thousand, was
Speaker 1: also an analyst, calling the action at both the Masters
Speaker 1: for CBS and later the Open Championship for ABC and ESPN.
Speaker 1: And on my ranking of former players turned architects, Weiskoff,
Speaker 1: who was credited with seventy course designs, redesigns, or renovations,
Speaker 1: is second to Ben Crenshaw, who we heard off the
Speaker 1: top of this podcast diagnosed with pancreatic cancer in Weiskoff
Speaker 1: died on August at the age of seventy nine at
Speaker 1: his home in Big Sky, Montana, where he lived with
Speaker 1: his second wife, Lori. Today we're going to hear from
Speaker 1: a pair of journalists and a pair of contemporaries on
Speaker 1: Tom Weiskoff, the man, the player, the analyst, and the architect.
Speaker 1: Michael Bamberger, who wrote a tribute to Tom Weiscoff, for
Speaker 1: the Firepit Collective dot com offers his thoughts throughout this podcast.
Speaker 1: Guy Yoakum, who spent thirty years writing for Golf Digestors
Speaker 1: Here Ben Crench continues to offer his thoughtful perspective on
Speaker 1: Weisskoff's life and career. Dave Stockton, who like Weiskoff, has
Speaker 1: a passion for hunting and fishing, agreed to offer his thoughts,
Speaker 1: and we hear from Tom Weiskoff, who I interviewed in
Speaker 1: May of I couldn't be telling these stories without our sponsors,
Speaker 1: so before we get started, I want to thank links
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Speaker 1: make par We start this tribute to Tom Weiscoff with
Speaker 1: Michael Bamberger. What do we need to know about Tom Weisscoff,
Speaker 1: the man, the husband, the father, the grandfather. You know
Speaker 1: he was He married a woman who was a far
Speaker 1: bigger celebrity than he at the time of the marriage.
Speaker 1: His wife, Jennie Ruth was her name. Then she was
Speaker 1: Miss Minnesota when they married, and part of her gig
Speaker 1: at Miss as Miss Minnesota was handing out invitations to
Speaker 1: a pro am tournament in St. Paul's or whatever might
Speaker 1: have been, something along those lines. And uh, and they
Speaker 1: had a long successful marriage. Um. You know, marriages many
Speaker 1: many are I don't know the number half of all
Speaker 1: marriages and the divorce. But this marriage went for thirty
Speaker 1: three years and buried two wonderful children. Tragically, Tom's son
Speaker 1: died last year. UM. Eric Wiskoff, Eric Thomas Wiskoff, who
Speaker 1: loved music and love golf and and live large, but
Speaker 1: you know, had had issues in his life as Tom did.
Speaker 1: Many people who followed Tom's life would know that he
Speaker 1: quit drinking in two thousand and without getting into I'm
Speaker 1: not qualified to get into it, and I would in
Speaker 1: this format anyhow. But Eric had had had his own
Speaker 1: similar kind of issues and and tragically they caught up
Speaker 1: with him and and and claimed his life has long
Speaker 1: before that. His his his first marriage broke up and
Speaker 1: he remarried. But he has the surviving daughter, Heidi, with
Speaker 1: whom I spoke this morning for for two hours, and
Speaker 1: she was or a remarkable person, really bright and really articulate.
Speaker 1: And one of the things I mentioned her was that
Speaker 1: one of my favorite stories ever wrote was about Nan
Speaker 1: Nicholas had Jack had four sons and one daughter, and
Speaker 1: the daughter Nan Nicholas and Big Jack. They had one
Speaker 1: trip every year, and that was to go to the Open.
Speaker 1: That was the British Open, and that was their week together.
Speaker 1: And that sort of opened up a door for Heidi
Speaker 1: to talk about the many many uh E lab were
Speaker 1: at fishing trips that big macho tall Tom Weiscoff and
Speaker 1: his daughter went on to Alaska. She's talking about Kodiak
Speaker 1: bears and you know all these different trouts and rainbow
Speaker 1: trouts and steel heads and arctic charred, all these things
Speaker 1: you see him menus like. She doesn't know him as
Speaker 1: a menu item. She knows him as a fish in
Speaker 1: your hands, and they would cook it up right there.
Speaker 1: So they had a very rich life together. Tom clearly
Speaker 1: loved both these children. Life is for all of us
Speaker 1: has all sorts of curveballs in trauma, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: they had their share, maybe more. But the underlying love
Speaker 1: he had for his children and i'm sure for his
Speaker 1: for his first wife as well, really carried the day.
Speaker 1: And you know, we of course think of Tom Weiscoff
Speaker 1: the golfer. But with his son Eric, uh they shared
Speaker 1: hunting like he shared fishing with with Heidi, and they
Speaker 1: went all over the world. You know, this is not
Speaker 1: my thing, but this is not about me, you know,
Speaker 1: big game hunting, uh uh. And with Heidi it was fishing,
Speaker 1: and they went all over all over the world, maybe
Speaker 1: in all over the world, below over the country, and
Speaker 1: all over Alaska especially. He grew up, you know, working
Speaker 1: class at best, and made money and enjoyed spending it,
Speaker 1: but was but not in a crazy way, actually in
Speaker 1: a in a conservative ways as high to as describe it.
Speaker 1: One thing that we were really almost laughing about where
Speaker 1: this fascination for fancy dressing came from. You would never
Speaker 1: guess that this guy's profile, but would would lend itself
Speaker 1: to like really caring, Like Jack ever cared Arnold. I
Speaker 1: don't think every cared Trevino. I don't think ever cared.
Speaker 1: Watson definitely didn't carry is one of the worst dresses ever.
Speaker 1: But Wi Scoff really cared. And one of the amusing
Speaker 1: things that Heidi said was that when you know, his
Speaker 1: thing on tour was three weeks on, one week off,
Speaker 1: and they played hard from February to October, like really
Speaker 1: the end of September, and then he took October, November, December,
Speaker 1: and January. He basically took off and hunted and fished.
Speaker 1: So when he was going to go on the road
Speaker 1: for three weeks, she said she had he had an
Speaker 1: enormous wardrobe room whatever you might call it, with you know,
Speaker 1: one of those mirrors like you see at the tailor
Speaker 1: with the three sides, and the whole floor would be
Speaker 1: carvered with rejects before he would decide what. So, you know,
Speaker 1: my Christen hers, how did he get so interested in
Speaker 1: purple and how did he get so interested in clothes?
Speaker 1: And he's like, I don't know, but he did love purple,
Speaker 1: and he did love clothes. Who knows. One of their
Speaker 1: things from Heidi that was really interesting was that they
Speaker 1: were letter writers, like whoever writes letters anymore? But they
Speaker 1: they handwrote letters to another Eric and Heidi and the
Speaker 1: mom and the dad. And there's a treasure trovial letters
Speaker 1: and actually Heidi shared one with me, which I'm going
Speaker 1: to write about later for those who are who are
Speaker 1: interested in it. But you know that also a state
Speaker 1: amount of value system from Yester from another area really
Speaker 1: And here's Guy Yoakum, my former colleague get Golf Digest
Speaker 1: who spent a lot of time with Tom Weiscoff over
Speaker 1: the years. For Yoakum my shot on Wiscoff in a
Speaker 1: Golf Digest in two thousand two. Wiskoff said his favorite
Speaker 1: actor was Clayton Moore, the man who played the Lone
Speaker 1: Ranger and so on Wiskoff's horse in Paradise, Arizona. We
Speaker 1: had photographer Chip Simon's posed Tom as the Lone Ranger
Speaker 1: horse hat and mask. Wiscoff very willingly played along. Here's
Speaker 1: Guy Yoakum, reflecting on his friend. On a personal level,
Speaker 1: he was he was noticed a towering inferno, terrible Tom.
Speaker 1: He was known as temperamental and having a short temper
Speaker 1: and all that, and there was some of that, but
Speaker 1: you know, you look back, he never got suspended. He
Speaker 1: never did anything that really, uh caused a ruckus or
Speaker 1: where he really raised hell or through tantrums or that
Speaker 1: type of thing. But he he kind of he had
Speaker 1: a certain world view. He had a certain set of principles,
Speaker 1: the way that he thought the golf and life should
Speaker 1: be conducted. And it's something or something. If there was
Speaker 1: a policy that he didn't like, if there was a
Speaker 1: person that he didn't care for for his behavior or
Speaker 1: a breach of etiquette, I mean, he would he would
Speaker 1: he would go nuts. I mean he just could. He
Speaker 1: would just he would raise hell. And you didn't want
Speaker 1: to be on the wrong side of wise comp he was.
Speaker 1: Uh So he was that. But but you know, he
Speaker 1: had he had a lot of friends. He helped a
Speaker 1: lot of people. You know, not everybody knows about this,
Speaker 1: but he secretly helped a lot of old friends. He's
Speaker 1: like one of the most loyal, loyal people to have
Speaker 1: loyal friends, you could have, and he expressed he had
Speaker 1: one friend, UH boy, his name. I always remembered his
Speaker 1: name because he was there for a couple of interviews
Speaker 1: I did with him, and his name was Dudley Merkel.
Speaker 1: There's a euphonious appellation for you. But he would he
Speaker 1: would talk about what an incredible uh friend that Tom was. Like.
Speaker 1: One year there was a caddy Tom's caddy at the
Speaker 1: Masters for many years, a guy named Leroy Schultz was
Speaker 1: in sort of a bad way and he needed help financially,
Speaker 1: and he he called Tom. And you know, he only
Speaker 1: worked for Tom maybe two or three times a year,
Speaker 1: but he knew Tom was somebody that he could turn
Speaker 1: to in his an hour of need, and he just
Speaker 1: dropped a call. It was hard for him to do that,
Speaker 1: and Tom came to his rescue and I mean built
Speaker 1: him up. Tom would never tell this, uh tell these
Speaker 1: kinds of stories on himself, but he was He was
Speaker 1: just a good person. I think after he had a
Speaker 1: bad drinking problem. Self confessed bad drinking problem. Uh for
Speaker 1: most of his career. He always said that he God
Speaker 1: gave him all the tools and he kind of threw
Speaker 1: them away. He thought that he should have won a
Speaker 1: half full of agents and could have won three times
Speaker 1: as many tournaments that he did, but he said he
Speaker 1: pissed it away, you know. And uh, but there was
Speaker 1: redemption in that story because I mean, he had been
Speaker 1: sober when he passed. Uh, he had been sober for
Speaker 1: twenty years, and he really, he really was on a
Speaker 1: course for self improvement. He did improve himself. And UM,
Speaker 1: I think the game has really lost somebody special. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you want to go to YouTube and watch some
Speaker 1: of those masters and watch some of those u US
Speaker 1: opens and just things on Tom wisecoffin and uh and
Speaker 1: and look at that gorgeous golf swing again and know
Speaker 1: that the man uh making those wings was a gorgeous
Speaker 1: person on the inside too. On to Ben Crenshaw, let's
Speaker 1: start with Tom Weiscoff, the player. I you know, I
Speaker 1: wrote a little just like a three sentence deal yesterday
Speaker 1: for I sent it to my manager, Scottie Sayers. I said,
Speaker 1: if anybody wants to uh to read this, and it
Speaker 1: was basically this, Matt, and he said, I said, we've missed, uh,
Speaker 1: we've lost a great friend h and a great golfer. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I said that I had such high esteem for him. Matt.
Speaker 1: I can remember when I was sixteen years old, I
Speaker 1: went to Houston and watched him play at Champions Golf
Speaker 1: Club in Houston. I was sixteen, and I was so
Speaker 1: I just followed him around like a puppy dog, and
Speaker 1: I was just he had this golf swing that was
Speaker 1: ah his posture. I think it was the best posture
Speaker 1: I've ever seen about any golfer. He he always was
Speaker 1: very tall and straight and he I asked him about that.
Speaker 1: I said, I said, Tom, you're I said, you always
Speaker 1: walk so tall and you sit sometimes. He said, my
Speaker 1: mother always told me to sit up straight. And I
Speaker 1: mean it was a paramount part of his golfpeling. He was.
Speaker 1: He just had this golf swing that was so powerful
Speaker 1: and so high, and but he could hit golf shots. Uh.
Speaker 1: The long driver of course, and a beautiful iron flayer.
Speaker 1: Back to Bamburger. I came of golf age when Tom
Speaker 1: White scope was at the height of his powers mid seventies.
Speaker 1: So tall, so slender, narrow hip, wide shoulders, beautiful dresser, pring,
Speaker 1: old kashmere sweaters, argyle, purple yellow brown. He wasn't like
Speaker 1: who would think yellow and brown works. But Tom White
Speaker 1: Scoff made it work so handsome, great teeth, great smile,
Speaker 1: and endured so much pain on the golf course, and
Speaker 1: we were in pain for him because there were so
Speaker 1: many year mrs. Of course, there was the great triumph
Speaker 1: of the seventy three Open Championship at Shroon. So I
Speaker 1: was always run to Tom Wiscoff. You know, it's hard
Speaker 1: to think of someone with that physique as being the underdog.
Speaker 1: With that swing, this guy's the underdog. But he was
Speaker 1: the underdog. So I just gravitated to Tom Wiskoff as
Speaker 1: they did Lee, Rovino and others. Of course, the gravity,
Speaker 1: said Watson Nicholas too. I was an equal opportunity gravitate tour,
Speaker 1: but Wiskoff was near the very top. And and and
Speaker 1: believe me, I'm not alone. I would say literally millions
Speaker 1: of others would Fel would say the same. Here's Dave Stockton, who,
Speaker 1: along with Tom Wiskoff, is thought to have a resume
Speaker 1: worthy of the World Golf Hall of Fame, which we'll
Speaker 1: get to a little later. We kind of came up
Speaker 1: sixty seven, was kind of He was champions choice of
Speaker 1: Colonial in sixty six and I got it in sixty
Speaker 1: seven and it was a dog fight obviously when I
Speaker 1: won there in sixty seven. Uh, he got the advantage
Speaker 1: of playing with Hogan last day, which didn't exactly work
Speaker 1: out for him, but uh, you know I mean through that,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's made some funny things. I mean, the
Speaker 1: all the rational crap he got for not playing the
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup when he had the sheep hunt planned that
Speaker 1: I understood completely well why he was sheep punting. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's hard to get it, and he was going for it,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know the feeling I got. I think,
Speaker 1: you know some of the stories, one of the really
Speaker 1: neat ones, uh to come to mind, But one where
Speaker 1: he got me and and he had divine help was
Speaker 1: the year that Nancy got died when we were playing
Speaker 1: park City and Tom had to have Nancy on his shoulders.
Speaker 1: When Tom makes it to like a twenty five ft
Speaker 1: on seventeen and then makes it like a thirty five
Speaker 1: or forty ft on eighteen to get in a playoff
Speaker 1: with me and then probably makes another long putt, I know,
Speaker 1: good for a fact, he never made three long putts
Speaker 1: in a row, I don't think, but I mean he
Speaker 1: did it for Bert, and that's Tom. Tom is a
Speaker 1: very deep person. When you mentioned Bert Yancy earlier, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know much about him. What was the reference
Speaker 1: there that you felt like Yancey was was helping him.
Speaker 1: Yancy and and Tom are good friends, very very good friends.
Speaker 1: And where Yancy. You know, he's the only one that
Speaker 1: built the greens of Augusta, you know, and just he went,
Speaker 1: he was he really got deep into it, you know.
Speaker 1: Just to clarify, Bert Yancey was so committed to winning
Speaker 1: the Masters. The West Point captain of the United States
Speaker 1: Military Academy's golf team once built clay models of the
Speaker 1: greens at Augusta National. Back to Stockton, he had some
Speaker 1: issues and I think Tom kind of relayed a lot
Speaker 1: to him, saw himself in different things, and but he
Speaker 1: and he and he and Tom are good friends. And
Speaker 1: I think it was Thursday that Yancy passed away when
Speaker 1: we're playing up there, and like I said, I mean,
Speaker 1: Tom was really distraught and we talked about it during
Speaker 1: the round and he says, yeah, I'm playing this, I'm
Speaker 1: playing this for Bert, And I said, you go for it.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's great. And the end, I mean
Speaker 1: it was it was meant to be I'm sitting there going,
Speaker 1: there's no way Tom can put this good. There's no
Speaker 1: way he's draining these things because Yancey could put And
Speaker 1: so I just figured I was two on one. It
Speaker 1: wasn't really fair. But like you say, I've lost so
Speaker 1: many playoffs, you kind of lose track of it. Back
Speaker 1: to Gyokum and I say, Tom Wiskoff, what do you say, Um, well,
Speaker 1: we've lost We've lost a unique guy. Uh. He's a
Speaker 1: special guy. It's a person you immediately think he should
Speaker 1: be remembered. But unfortunately, you know, I think there's a
Speaker 1: whole generation that they don't really have a Tom Weiskoff
Speaker 1: to remember he was. He was kind of gone off
Speaker 1: the scene, certainly as as a player before before young
Speaker 1: people had gotten a chance to see him. You know,
Speaker 1: we have evidence. I would break it down this way.
Speaker 1: If you're over the age of say, you'll remember sixty.
Speaker 1: You'll remember Tom Wiskoff as a player, and what a
Speaker 1: player he was. I mean he Uh, he's fabulous, underrated.
Speaker 1: He had the most gorgeous swing. Uh, it's as good
Speaker 1: as it gets. And it was unusual in a way
Speaker 1: that you know a lot of golf swings they may
Speaker 1: not be technically perfect. But when you put them in
Speaker 1: motion and watched them in film, the rhythm other swings
Speaker 1: is so good that it makes kind of an unorthodox
Speaker 1: swing look beautiful. Um with Tom it but it's kind
Speaker 1: of just the opposite. And he's the only guy can
Speaker 1: think of that way. Like, Uh, if you look at
Speaker 1: these photographs, the swing sequence of his positions and the
Speaker 1: mechanics of that golf swing, it's just a set piece
Speaker 1: of perfection. You just can't you can't uh make or
Speaker 1: draw a skullf swing better that better than that. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't think he was the logo of the PGA
Speaker 1: towards logo that when we've seen him, but he very
Speaker 1: well could have been. And you could have chosen any
Speaker 1: one of ten positions in his swing and it was
Speaker 1: just the stuff of dreams. But but his he but
Speaker 1: when you saw him swing, his tempo was it was
Speaker 1: an up tempo swing. It was kind of a quick swing.
Speaker 1: We we tend to be drawn to kind of drowsy
Speaker 1: beautiful swings. But for a great, big, tall guy, he
Speaker 1: his swing was quite brisk and up tempo. Uh. But so,
Speaker 1: I mean it could look better and still photographs than
Speaker 1: a can in motion but in in In any case,
Speaker 1: it was a beautiful swing and his accomplishments were exceptionally.
Speaker 1: He won I think fifteen times, he got his major. Uh.
Speaker 1: In some ways he was a case of what might
Speaker 1: of what could have been, because he he finished second
Speaker 1: in the Master's four times, and each one was more
Speaker 1: heartbreak then the last. Uh. He told me that he
Speaker 1: has lost in necklace at the seventy five Masters, where
Speaker 1: Jack ran in that long patit at sixteen that famous
Speaker 1: bear tracks. But he said that that did him in
Speaker 1: uh psychologically, that he never quite came back from that emotionally.
Speaker 1: Weiskoff actually won sixteen times and again won the Open
Speaker 1: at Troon in nineteen seventy three. But for more on
Speaker 1: the seventy five Masters, here's Weiskoff on Golf Channel's Morning
Speaker 1: Drive being interviewed by my former colleagues there, Gary Williams
Speaker 1: and Damon heck Well. Thomas, surely didn't take you a
Speaker 1: long time to adapt to Augusta Nastal. He just showed
Speaker 1: your record the seven top tens, four runner up finishes
Speaker 1: at Augusta National. When you reflect on nineteen seventy five,
Speaker 1: that magnificent Masters, that incredible duel involving Johnny Miller and
Speaker 1: Jack Nicholas. What do you remember the most well? I,
Speaker 1: you know, I go back to the last nine holes
Speaker 1: and basically I mishit my my second shot. I pulled it.
Speaker 1: It was a poorly played shot at whole number eleven.
Speaker 1: It actually hit on the green about three or four
Speaker 1: feet into the green, but uh, the contour of the
Speaker 1: slope next to the pond took it down into the water.
Speaker 1: I did get it up and down for a bogey.
Speaker 1: So that was a great jump start right there, because
Speaker 1: that is a very uh tough place to try to
Speaker 1: get it, get the ball up and down when you
Speaker 1: have to drop it behind the pond, pitch over the
Speaker 1: pond to that back left pin placement, which it was
Speaker 1: that particular day. Then I mishit my t shot at sixteen,
Speaker 1: and the game of golf is a game of missus,
Speaker 1: and uh, I went right to my putter. I was
Speaker 1: on the front of the green and I had to
Speaker 1: put across the slope. I had a very unusual situation
Speaker 1: on that green that if I hit it real hard,
Speaker 1: hard and play way right of the pin, I was
Speaker 1: gonna give myself probably a six to ten foot put
Speaker 1: at best and I just miss hit my putt. I
Speaker 1: think I looked up a little bit. I was a
Speaker 1: little bit anxious. I was feeling the pressure. So there's
Speaker 1: three shots right there in nine holes, and that was
Speaker 1: the difference. Other than that, you know, it was a
Speaker 1: very exciting uh Masters for all three of us. Obviously,
Speaker 1: Johnny played fantastic. He got off to a very poor start,
Speaker 1: and then I got back into contention and had had
Speaker 1: his chances also, But you know, Jack is just Jack.
Speaker 1: You know, if there's anybody that's gonna make a put
Speaker 1: like he did at six to be him, you know,
Speaker 1: because he just never makes mistakes, and he made the
Speaker 1: fewer that particular day. And consequently John and I finished second.
Speaker 1: Tell you talk about Jack Nicholas, who had such great
Speaker 1: reverence for him. Was it hard to get past that
Speaker 1: knowing he was the best player in the game or
Speaker 1: was that easy? No? I think that that's a very
Speaker 1: good question. You know, any time you were you had
Speaker 1: a chance to beat him, you know, it was monumental
Speaker 1: for whoever it was, because he was the best. He
Speaker 1: didn't beat himself. He was the smartest player out there,
Speaker 1: a terrific decision maker, you know, he had a great competitor,
Speaker 1: great concentration power. He could pop a chipping, pitching he
Speaker 1: was so so, but he didn't have to because he
Speaker 1: didn't hit many chips or pitches unless they were on
Speaker 1: the par fives, you know, when he was up around
Speaker 1: the green and two. But basically, you know, that puts
Speaker 1: the pressure you want to beat somebody like that, he's
Speaker 1: the best that ever played the game, and that it
Speaker 1: puts pressure on you. But that's the excitement of playing
Speaker 1: the game of golf, putting yourself in a position to
Speaker 1: beat the best. And uh, you know I didn't that
Speaker 1: particular day, but I had some other chances where I
Speaker 1: came through a various other places. But you know, it
Speaker 1: just adds to the whole um spectrum of the day
Speaker 1: is you're just watching him ahead of you all day.
Speaker 1: You're watching him, really, you know, play almost bogey free golf.
Speaker 1: He was down the fairway on all the holes, he
Speaker 1: was on the green, you know, if he missed the green,
Speaker 1: he was on the right side all the time. You know,
Speaker 1: so he just knew that he wasn't gonna beat himself.
Speaker 1: And I think that that that in himself, uh makes
Speaker 1: the day just that much more exciting, but it also
Speaker 1: makes it much more pressureful. Everyone I spoke to talked
Speaker 1: about the fact that weis Coff lived in the shadow
Speaker 1: of Jack Nicholas. We start with Bamberger Well. A huge
Speaker 1: thing was the shared background German sons of Ohio who
Speaker 1: went to Ohio State. I think any uh, you know,
Speaker 1: if there was a Brandell Shambilie of that era, everyone
Speaker 1: would have said that Weiskoff was the better swinger. Um,
Speaker 1: Wiskoff is mechanically perfect, uh uh, so it looked like
Speaker 1: Wiskoff should be Nicholas. One of the things that happened
Speaker 1: in that era was that out of season football writers
Speaker 1: would cover golf and like they were bored, so they
Speaker 1: were looking to stir things up. So they sort of
Speaker 1: turned Tom and Jack into a thing more than it
Speaker 1: really was. But it kind of was the thing because
Speaker 1: of Ohio and Jack was always extremely gracious about Wiskoff.
Speaker 1: But Weiskoff, by his own admission, I think it took
Speaker 1: him years to really be able to come to this realization.
Speaker 1: For all his great, great skills, uh, he didn't have
Speaker 1: the pay, he didn't have the plan, and he didn't
Speaker 1: have He had the shots, but he didn't have that
Speaker 1: mental fortitude of sticking it out for seventies goals that
Speaker 1: the Nicholas had. So it was it was it looked
Speaker 1: like a mismatch in Tom's favor, but it was actually
Speaker 1: a mismatch in Jack's favor because as we know, golf is,
Speaker 1: you know, the six inches between the years. At the
Speaker 1: end of the day, they decided a lot. Here's yoakum
Speaker 1: on the Jack factor. It mu it really did. He
Speaker 1: felt that weight of a lot of it was expectation.
Speaker 1: You could look at that golf swing and I mean
Speaker 1: immediately people thought he would he would just set the
Speaker 1: world utterly on fire. And then uh, you know, uh
Speaker 1: he he would be Nicholas's equal, really and uh he
Speaker 1: actually most of the contemporaries will tell you he hit
Speaker 1: it better than Nicholas did. He was wise. Coop almost
Speaker 1: kind of stood alone in his class as a as
Speaker 1: a ball striker. And uh but as he told me,
Speaker 1: you know, you can't forget that this phrase. I never did.
Speaker 1: He said, but trying to beat Nicholas was like trying
Speaker 1: to drain the Pacific Ocean with the teacup. And he said,
Speaker 1: there was just this oppressive sense of pressure and it
Speaker 1: was Jack's persona and oh Jack netflick Netlas a tough cookie.
Speaker 1: And uh, he just knew the given time, Nicholas, he
Speaker 1: gave you this look, he said standard on the first
Speaker 1: take a look of doubt. Nicholas would look at you,
Speaker 1: kind of look down his nose at you and just
Speaker 1: glare right through you and say, you know, just insinuate
Speaker 1: you're gonna make mistakes. And you know what, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to make mistakes. And he said, just that the nervousness,
Speaker 1: the tension of wise God would say, I can't screw,
Speaker 1: I can't make mistakes, which you know, invariably he would
Speaker 1: make a mistake and it would just be a time,
Speaker 1: a tiny mistake, and Wise Coff would know when that
Speaker 1: moment was when he made that mistake, and it scarreded. Uh,
Speaker 1: it just it was hard for him to recover from it.
Speaker 1: And and uh and who knows if if some of
Speaker 1: that didn't lead to kind of to some of the
Speaker 1: more of the personal issues he had and what should
Speaker 1: have been the prime of his career. But that he
Speaker 1: was great Nicholas, Uh speaks very speaks very highly at
Speaker 1: Wise Cooff as a person. He liked him personally. Uh
Speaker 1: like him as an high regard of him for him
Speaker 1: as a player too. So back to Stockton, we all
Speaker 1: know that he was under jack shadow, you know, going
Speaker 1: to be the next Nicholas and all that had obviously
Speaker 1: had a beautiful swing. And but he and I we
Speaker 1: we had humor between us. I mean one year at
Speaker 1: the Masters, I think it was seventy three, might have
Speaker 1: been seventy two, but I believe it was seventy three
Speaker 1: that he and I and Norvill Moody were in a
Speaker 1: playoff for the on the Part three course at Augustin. Yes,
Speaker 1: and you know you got an eighty yard hall of
Speaker 1: you know how many thousands of people standing around. I
Speaker 1: turned to Thomas said, Tom, hey, t you know this
Speaker 1: is this is terrible to get nervous before the tournament starts,
Speaker 1: you know, the day before. And he goes, you're looking
Speaker 1: at right now? He goes, you're nervous, and I felt okay.
Speaker 1: So he ends up drawing. He hit first, right. He
Speaker 1: ain't one of the best shanks that I've ever seen.
Speaker 1: I meant, it didn't you come close to any of
Speaker 1: the people. Forget the green, forget the people. I mean
Speaker 1: it went straight right. So he watched by me I said, Tom,
Speaker 1: that was a hell of a shot for not being nervous. Huh.
Speaker 1: And it was just, you know, we'd go back and forth.
Speaker 1: I think one of my better story. And again, we
Speaker 1: played the TPC up in in Blaine in Minnesota, and
Speaker 1: we're playing the Legends portion of the Champions Tour and
Speaker 1: and I'm playing, I'm playing with with he and we're
Speaker 1: gonna play with Johnny Miller I'd played with the year before.
Speaker 1: And we're staying on the green and I explained to him,
Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna Miller will be telling us what
Speaker 1: shots to hit because he's commentator and that's what he does.
Speaker 1: And and Tom Turnmey says, what do you do? What
Speaker 1: do you teach people? When you teach him putting? And
Speaker 1: I go, well, everybody's different. We don't teach the same
Speaker 1: because our job is to make him comfortable. What are
Speaker 1: you Are you talking about somebody else? Are you talking
Speaker 1: about you? And he kind of goes well, uh uh me,
Speaker 1: And I go, I've been waiting to tell you this
Speaker 1: for forty years. You know, you know, you stick your
Speaker 1: your overlapping fingers straight down and you get long fingers,
Speaker 1: stick it down on your left hand like it's gonna
Speaker 1: help you keep it going to the hall, but in
Speaker 1: reality it makes it stop. And he says, what do
Speaker 1: you mean? So I showed him and he's I said,
Speaker 1: I just want you overlap your little finger with that.
Speaker 1: I don't want that left finger stuck way down. Well,
Speaker 1: I said, you're gonna put first when we get out there,
Speaker 1: because this is the best ball between the three of us. Whoever, whoever,
Speaker 1: whoever teach shot was the best, which is gonna be
Speaker 1: wise Coffs and whoever second was the best with might
Speaker 1: be Miller or or wise coff And I said, I'll
Speaker 1: put last. All that. Miller put in the middle and
Speaker 1: Tom made eleven birdies and he missed one. Of all
Speaker 1: the putt he had, he only missed one battle. He
Speaker 1: missed a couple others, but all the others looked like
Speaker 1: they were going in for eleven. That was a lot
Speaker 1: of eighteen holes. And he's just we got through and
Speaker 1: the county we tug and he shake hands and he goes,
Speaker 1: why didn't you tell me that forty years ago? I said, well, Tom,
Speaker 1: because I remember you were a superstar striking the golf ball,
Speaker 1: and I couldn't find mine. I didn't see you off
Speaker 1: for me any advice I said, if you'd asked me,
Speaker 1: I would have helped you, because I helped anybody I could.
Speaker 1: For more on weiss Cooff's highlights, we go back to Crenshaw.
Speaker 1: But I'll never forget that nineteen seventy three season, Matt Wow.
Speaker 1: I mean eight victories. Uh. I think it started with
Speaker 1: the the I VB Tournament in White Marsh. White Marsh
Speaker 1: is one of the great courses of short course that
Speaker 1: you had to threaten the needle on. He won there,
Speaker 1: of course, that was when he won at Troon in
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three. But what a season he had there. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it showed people the showcase of his talent um.
Speaker 1: It shows you what he was expected to do and
Speaker 1: what he could do. So Wiskoff gets his major. He
Speaker 1: had five top fives in the US Open, with a
Speaker 1: second place finish in nineteen seventy six. He had five
Speaker 1: top tens in PGA Championships and again the four second
Speaker 1: places in the Masters. Wiscoff joined the CBS team covering
Speaker 1: the Masters in one as well as the stretch from
Speaker 1: For more on Weiskoff, the TV analyst, we go back
Speaker 1: to gayokum, what a game. So if you're six year over,
Speaker 1: you will and you can carry in your mind's i
Speaker 1: of that golf game and that swing and what he did.
Speaker 1: That's what you'll remember. But if you're fifty and over,
Speaker 1: you may remember him as a TV broadcaster and he
Speaker 1: was one of a kind there. He had this incredible
Speaker 1: blend of bluntness, honesty, really smart, original takes something. He
Speaker 1: was able to put himself in the heads of the
Speaker 1: golfers that he was commentating about, and he really it
Speaker 1: was a journey. He was so perceptive, so smart, and
Speaker 1: he had gone through so much himself. He was just
Speaker 1: so good. Uh, great sense of timing, pretty good elocution,
Speaker 1: nice voice to hear. Michael Bamberger. I would say what
Speaker 1: Wiscoff brought to the Masters is exactly what Venturi brought
Speaker 1: to the Masters, and what Johnny Miller could have brought
Speaker 1: to the Masters is that that element of unrequited love.
Speaker 1: And Faldo who really did the Masters very well, and
Speaker 1: I don't think they got enough credit for it. Of
Speaker 1: course he didn't have it. Greg Norman would have had it,
Speaker 1: which is like it means so much to you. You
Speaker 1: were so close to get in the jacket or is
Speaker 1: Johnny Miller would say, but you know, I should get
Speaker 1: a green est for all my uh, for all my
Speaker 1: near all my near missus. But I think that you know,
Speaker 1: Wise Scoff I talked to about Augusta a lot with
Speaker 1: Wise Scuff over the years. I think he felt the
Speaker 1: golf course very deeply. Of course his you know, he
Speaker 1: became a renowned golf course architect later in his life,
Speaker 1: So I think he felt the course. I think he
Speaker 1: felt the weight of the history. And I think the
Speaker 1: most significant thing like Ventury, and it would have been
Speaker 1: the same for for Norman had he ever had a
Speaker 1: chance to do it. Uh and Johnny Miller. But but
Speaker 1: White Scoff did, and of course Ventury did. Was they
Speaker 1: know what it's like to be in the thick of
Speaker 1: it and uh and that gets conveyed and everything they say,
Speaker 1: And they know how hard that you know, if you
Speaker 1: missed that that green un sixteen, they know how hard,
Speaker 1: how precise you have to be with that pitch shot.
Speaker 1: You know, it's not really a ship typically it's off
Speaker 1: in a pitch and uh and the lie and the
Speaker 1: grass and the different grasses and the pressure and what
Speaker 1: it would mean to have the jacket. Uh. He he
Speaker 1: knew that and and and he conveyed that plus great
Speaker 1: technical understanding of the demand. So you know, I can't
Speaker 1: tell you chapter in verse. I just know I love
Speaker 1: listen Wi Scoff at the Masters, and he was close
Speaker 1: to Churkkenny and Chicknyan was the genius behind the coverage
Speaker 1: of the Masters. And uh uh and that added a
Speaker 1: lot to it. I think it. Maybe I picked up
Speaker 1: on that later. I talked to Wi Scoff about it,
Speaker 1: but his comfort Chrickinny and Cherkennyan's comfort with him added
Speaker 1: a lot to it. You know, just to go off
Speaker 1: on a quick tangent there, but it might be interesting
Speaker 1: to some people. One of the things I used to
Speaker 1: say about Mark McCormick. Mark McCormick, for those who don't know,
Speaker 1: was the founder by m J and you represented Gary
Speaker 1: Player and Jack Nicholas and a Palmer at the height
Speaker 1: of their powers. And he was a good, you know,
Speaker 1: scratch golfer, maybe seventy five shooter, but he was in
Speaker 1: awe of them, um. And he brought that awe to
Speaker 1: his sales, uh when he was selling the Big Three.
Speaker 1: And I think chur Kenyan was in awe Venturian Wi
Speaker 1: scoff for their golf skill and uh and he sort
Speaker 1: of let them go on ways that he would into
Speaker 1: more quote regular professional announcer. And I think that that
Speaker 1: contributed to the coverage as well. Wiskoff was on the
Speaker 1: call with Jim Nance when Jack Nicholas won the six Masters.
Speaker 1: Nicholas came to the sixteenth tea at seven under, part
Speaker 1: having gone five under in holes nine through fifteen. Jack
Speaker 1: Nicholas knowing he must continue the charge. He has to
Speaker 1: figure that Bias Starros will make at least birdie back
Speaker 1: at fifteen. If anyone has ever owned this whole, it
Speaker 1: would be Jack Nicholas when he won his first Green
Speaker 1: jacket back in ninette. He did it with a birdie
Speaker 1: here at sixteen. And of course, who can forget Tom Wisekoff.
Speaker 1: What is going through Jack's mind right now? He has
Speaker 1: not experienced this kind of a streak in a long time.
Speaker 1: If I knew the way he thought, I would have
Speaker 1: won this tournament. No, seriously, he is just gonna fire
Speaker 1: this right at the pin. He's gonna think, Jack, this
Speaker 1: is time right now, make the swing that you are
Speaker 1: capable of making. Stayed down accelerate through the ball, make
Speaker 1: a good golf swing. Your destiny is right here. Really,
Speaker 1: it's right at it. Oh my back on the te
Speaker 1: he really has no idea just how close he is. Well,
Speaker 1: you know what the flag stick right over the bunker, Jim.
Speaker 1: A lot of people don't realize the fact that Jack
Speaker 1: really doesn't see that. Well, he probably has no idea
Speaker 1: really how close that ball is on the rain, anybody
Speaker 1: else could see the ball. Blame me from that team, Tom,
Speaker 1: That shot was within two inches of going into the
Speaker 1: cup beyond the master's. Wiskoff also contributed to ESPNS coverage
Speaker 1: of the Open, but on the back nine of his
Speaker 1: life he did his best work in the dirt, with
Speaker 1: at least sevent courses that he either designed, redesigned, or renovated.
Speaker 1: Weisskoff the architect might be just as impressive as he
Speaker 1: was as a player. He built a third of his
Speaker 1: courses with Jay Morrish, who left the Nicholas design team
Speaker 1: to partner with Weiskoff. Some notable courses in the Wiskoff
Speaker 1: portfolio include loch Loman in Scotland, Double Eagle in Ohio,
Speaker 1: Koula in Kawaiti, TPC Scottsdale, both Pinnacle and Monument at
Speaker 1: Truon North in Arizona, c d A National Reserve in Idaho,
Speaker 1: Tory North in San Diego, and one of my favorites,
Speaker 1: Forest Dunes in Ross Coummon, Michigan. For more on White's
Speaker 1: coffee architect we start with Ben Crenshaw. I just said
Speaker 1: that we are all missing and a great friend, a
Speaker 1: great player, and a great architect we had. I had
Speaker 1: so many wonderful moments talking golf architecture with Tom and
Speaker 1: he would give you the time. He loved golf architecture
Speaker 1: and he was damned good at it. Um. But I'm
Speaker 1: just we're just thinking about Lorie at this time. You know,
Speaker 1: we hated that people suffer like that, with a cancer
Speaker 1: like that. Um, but we're very very sorry. But man,
Speaker 1: we we we. He was a It was tremendously talented
Speaker 1: golfer and fascinating to talk to. Always had a great
Speaker 1: time talking to Tom. Isn't it ironic that here was
Speaker 1: this powerful long player. But what really, uh really got
Speaker 1: him to thinking was was the intricacies of and I'm
Speaker 1: telling you what I think that he, above anybody else,
Speaker 1: really put forward the the popular aspects of the short
Speaker 1: part four. Like you said, I mean, that's seventeenth hole
Speaker 1: at Scottsdale is just one of the great holes I've
Speaker 1: ever seen. To watch everybody try to attack that hole
Speaker 1: in their own way. Anybody can play that whole math.
Speaker 1: You know, it's a short for but it's fraught with
Speaker 1: a little danger um and it's it's it combines the
Speaker 1: heroic shot but also combines the the the what you
Speaker 1: think you can do with that t shot or how
Speaker 1: cunningly you want to play it? Uh, And it combines
Speaker 1: a lot of great finesse. But I think we we
Speaker 1: talked about the twelfth hold at St. Andrew Is so much.
Speaker 1: He loved that hole, and so do I. It's a
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a hole that you stand up on
Speaker 1: the tea and you see the flag waving in the distance.
Speaker 1: You can't see the bunkers out there in the in
Speaker 1: the middle, and you you kind of say to yourself,
Speaker 1: when I played this whole the last time I played,
Speaker 1: I played over to the right. No, I think I
Speaker 1: played it over to the left. It's one of those
Speaker 1: whole three. You just start scratching your head whatever wind
Speaker 1: you have, and then that green is just one of
Speaker 1: the great greens of the world. It's got that plateau
Speaker 1: in the middle that runs across the green, and and
Speaker 1: you know they put the pin right on top of
Speaker 1: that table, and you just go, well, I do I
Speaker 1: need to play it back or just maybe maybe go
Speaker 1: ahead and try to drive it if you have a
Speaker 1: falling breeze. So I think that he he grabbed a
Speaker 1: hold of people's attention in a way that that reflecting
Speaker 1: his architecture, in the way that he thought about the game.
Speaker 1: You know, loch Loman is always going to be the
Speaker 1: course where a lot of people think about what his
Speaker 1: talents were. He absolutely poured his heart and soul into
Speaker 1: that course, spent a lot of time there in Scotland
Speaker 1: at Loch Loman. You know, he would show us the
Speaker 1: pictures of when he started working there. He said, man,
Speaker 1: this is the most beautiful site you've ever seen. I
Speaker 1: can't believe I'm building this course and it came out great.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a nice staple on the European tour.
Speaker 1: Loch Loman, the private course, hosted the Scottish Open from
Speaker 1: two thousand one through two thousand ten. Waiscoff told me,
Speaker 1: like so many other great architects before and after him.
Speaker 1: That he borrowed specific strategic and design concepts from the
Speaker 1: old course in St. Andrew's. For more, here's Guy Yoakum.
Speaker 1: So if you're fifth year over your member TIV now,
Speaker 1: if you're an if you're younger than fifty, and the
Speaker 1: thing that's gonna last will be really enduring forever will
Speaker 1: be his career as an architect. And I mean his
Speaker 1: Uh those golf course but they're all they're also special,
Speaker 1: they're all good. It's uh, I've never met a golfer
Speaker 1: who was not a wise cop fan. I mean he
Speaker 1: he was innovative, he was daring, he kind of uh,
Speaker 1: he was the first accind he put a drivable par
Speaker 1: four on every golf course that he that he built.
Speaker 1: He was an innovator. I mean he didn't think twice
Speaker 1: about making a split fairway. He would kind of let
Speaker 1: his imagination go wild. He um, not in a crazy way.
Speaker 1: But he was creative. He was he was invented. He
Speaker 1: was kind of a man for the times. You know.
Speaker 1: He he built courses that were adapted to the modern player. Uh.
Speaker 1: He did him with all golfers in mind. I mean,
Speaker 1: when you're a Chopp or a guy on vacation. You
Speaker 1: can enjoy his golf courses. Uh They're they're good tests,
Speaker 1: I think for for experienced and better players. Uh So,
Speaker 1: I think that the way we're always going to know
Speaker 1: Tom now On will be his golf course. They'll continue
Speaker 1: to give to all of us in the golfing world.
Speaker 1: Here's more from Michael Bamberg. After I told him Weiskoff
Speaker 1: was responsible for seventy courses. That's really neat that that
Speaker 1: number is staggering. That because he was not a factory
Speaker 1: as a golf course architect, and he came to it late.
Speaker 1: So to have built seventy five courses, and as as
Speaker 1: his daughter Heidi was telling me earlier today and still
Speaker 1: working on golf course design really pretty much right through
Speaker 1: the end um is extraordinary. One of the things that
Speaker 1: strikes me about the number, and I would have never
Speaker 1: even gotten guests close to that number, is you gotta
Speaker 1: be damn good to get seventy five jobs. In other words,
Speaker 1: he wasn't Arnold Palmer, he wasn't Jack Nicholas in terms
Speaker 1: of name recognition, because people would join those clubs just
Speaker 1: to get to the cocktail party with Big Jack or
Speaker 1: the King. But you know, Wi Scoff had definitely had charisma,
Speaker 1: but he wasn't a name like those guys were. So
Speaker 1: the fact that seventy people hired him or you know
Speaker 1: that that's something that he built some courses tells you
Speaker 1: that one he built really good courses, and that too,
Speaker 1: he was really good at his job. In other words,
Speaker 1: he got it in, you know, at the price he
Speaker 1: said he was going to get in for. And the
Speaker 1: three of that who was really good at personal relationships.
Speaker 1: Uh So that's a very telling thing. And I'm glad
Speaker 1: glad you brought that up, and I'm glad that I'm
Speaker 1: glad that you have that perspective on on Tom the designer,
Speaker 1: because that's a very significant thing. And that's one of
Speaker 1: the reasons why I happened to Beyond. I'll probably get
Speaker 1: kicked off in pretty soon here, but for the last
Speaker 1: few years I've been on the World Golf Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1: I don't know what they call it. It's it's the
Speaker 1: final committee that votes who gets into, who gets out,
Speaker 1: and who who doesn't get in. And I've been pushing
Speaker 1: for for for Wi Scoff, and they've got their categories
Speaker 1: and it's complicated, and I try not to look at
Speaker 1: it that way. I try to look like, what in
Speaker 1: this particular case, what is the impact of the man
Speaker 1: in golf? And there's you know, it's coverage of the Masters,
Speaker 1: the incredible playing career, the error in which she played,
Speaker 1: and then as you as you're as we're discussing now
Speaker 1: golf courses. So when you talk about a golfing life,
Speaker 1: this guy belongs in the World Golf Hall of Fame
Speaker 1: because of the golfing life and the architecture is a
Speaker 1: big significant part of it. And there's our segue to
Speaker 1: the snubbing by the World Golf Hall of Fame again.
Speaker 1: Sixt PGA Tour wins, one major and one Senior US Open.
Speaker 1: That puts him on the line of debate. Fred Couple's
Speaker 1: fifteen wins and one major. He's in Colin Montgomery, no
Speaker 1: tour wins or major's. He's in. Marion Hollands, a pioneer
Speaker 1: who helped the development opposit, Tampo and Augusta National just
Speaker 1: went in as a contributor. Tom Weisskoff for his body
Speaker 1: of contributions as a player analyst, and our contect deserves
Speaker 1: to be in. Here's more from Bamberger. We don't want
Speaker 1: to make this about the World Golf Hall of Fame
Speaker 1: their selection process, but I think they've made it too complicated.
Speaker 1: Um to some degree, they not to some degree, they
Speaker 1: do have a white man American, white male American problem.
Speaker 1: They're trying to make it more of a World Golf
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame and represent women more and people of
Speaker 1: color more. And I think that's great and totally appropriate.
Speaker 1: But you know, in Stockton, you can make a great
Speaker 1: case for Stockton, and people want to make a his
Speaker 1: or this person that person, but I don't know who
Speaker 1: you If you could just simplify the process and say,
Speaker 1: is this guy a Hall of Famer however you might
Speaker 1: define it, there's there's too much emphasis on what is
Speaker 1: actually the criteria rather than here's the impact the person
Speaker 1: had on the game. Uh And look, this guy played
Speaker 1: in the in my opinion, you know, the greatest ever
Speaker 1: era of certainly American golf. Uh and was a core
Speaker 1: member of it. And then have these other major contributions
Speaker 1: to the game him. He clearly belongs in my opinion.
Speaker 1: Ben Crnshaw's perspective, the idea that he's not in the
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame to me is is bonkers. I just
Speaker 1: wonder if you also feel the same. It's an oversight.
Speaker 1: It's an oversight to this point, and I think that
Speaker 1: it's a uh, no question oversight of someone who really
Speaker 1: meant something to the game and and to the players.
Speaker 1: I mean, we were fascinated by his comments. He was
Speaker 1: so candid and you know, if he believed in something,
Speaker 1: he'd say it. Uh. I'm not saying controversial, but probably
Speaker 1: one of the most controversial things that Tom ever did
Speaker 1: was laying out during the Ryder Cup that year that
Speaker 1: he was on the team and he said, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go hunting. And he got a little he
Speaker 1: got some flak for that. That was unbelievable. Uh, But
Speaker 1: hunting was a great, great part of his life, as
Speaker 1: you know, you know, he he talked about that so much,
Speaker 1: you know, not only in Montana but northern Arizona, and uh,
Speaker 1: it was a great, great part of his life. Dave
Speaker 1: Stockton won ten PGA Tour events, two p g A championships,
Speaker 1: was part of two winning Writer Cup teams, and captained
Speaker 1: the famous ninety one team that won a Kiowa Plus.
Speaker 1: Stockton has had a prolific career helping thousands of people
Speaker 1: with their putting, most notably Phil Nicholson, Rory McElroy, Matt Coucher,
Speaker 1: Francesco Molinari, and Anika, who after Stockton worked with her,
Speaker 1: won seventeen times in the next two seasons. And Dave
Speaker 1: Stockton is also not in. My feeling is that it
Speaker 1: golf in the Hall of Fame like Cheese, She's in
Speaker 1: the Hall of fame, and rightly so because the humanitarian
Speaker 1: that he was. It wasn't all the golf, but I
Speaker 1: think Tom definitely should be. I know he's only won
Speaker 1: one major, uh i'll, i'll, and I think he's the
Speaker 1: courses he's created and what it what it stood for,
Speaker 1: I think that counts. It's just like all the corporate
Speaker 1: stuff I've done and all the people I've helped by
Speaker 1: the teaching is equivalent of kind of what he did
Speaker 1: with the course because and the only reason I didn't
Speaker 1: get into courses is I wanted to be able to
Speaker 1: spend more time uh, hunting and fishing, and I'm you know,
Speaker 1: I'm perfectionists in some regards, and so consequently, um, I
Speaker 1: like the idea that I could do corporatealities and be
Speaker 1: around people and help him and the teaching has been
Speaker 1: a real bonus. Um, I will dispute when you said
Speaker 1: I want ten. I'm still ticked off that I won
Speaker 1: eleven tournaments. One was the Hague and Hague with Lorie
Speaker 1: Hammer out of Florida at La Costa, and the PGA
Speaker 1: eighteen years later took it away from me. And it's
Speaker 1: the same format they're now playing it at New Orleans.
Speaker 1: So I still haven't figured that out. But they told
Speaker 1: me they took some away from a lot of other people.
Speaker 1: But UM, I don't know. I yeah, I would love
Speaker 1: to be honored and I love to see Tom honored. Uh,
Speaker 1: but again, I don't know how much how much good
Speaker 1: it does after you're gone when they would have been fun,
Speaker 1: if it had been fun, if he had been conducted
Speaker 1: five years ago or something, when he was in good
Speaker 1: shape and everything, and you said he's rounded out, he's
Speaker 1: mellowed out. He he really appreciated his place in the
Speaker 1: game of golf. And it wasn't just about the wins.
Speaker 1: It was about all the rest. And uh, it's kind
Speaker 1: of it's sad, but I mean it's you know, if
Speaker 1: it if it's meant to be later on, But again
Speaker 1: I feel sorry he's not here to enjoy something that
Speaker 1: he should have been a part of. Here's Guy Yoko
Speaker 1: on a final assessment of Weiss Cooff, the player, analyst,
Speaker 1: and architect. By any sensible criteria, he should be in
Speaker 1: the World Golf Hall of Fame on any one of
Speaker 1: those three counts. The board, the broadcasting, maybe borderline. Uh
Speaker 1: he wasn't. His career wasn't that long, and broadcasting it
Speaker 1: was on his terms. They beg they loved to have
Speaker 1: him there. He just kind of grew bored with it
Speaker 1: and stepped away. But I know it's an oversight. Uh
Speaker 1: boy stalked into Oh my gosh, it's it's almost criminal
Speaker 1: that they're not there. But it'll happen now, you know,
Speaker 1: these things that tend to happened postumously. But it's too
Speaker 1: bad he didn't see it. I don't think things like that, accolades, awards,
Speaker 1: uh money, those things were not really important to Tom
Speaker 1: wise Coff. It's I know, it's hard to imagine with
Speaker 1: the values most of us carry around today, but that guy,
Speaker 1: all he wanted were his friends. Uh, he wanted he
Speaker 1: loved his family, he loved his son Eric. He had
Speaker 1: remained friendly with his his his wife Jeannie law long
Speaker 1: after they split up. Um, he kind of just had
Speaker 1: a sense for what was important. And uh, um, it's
Speaker 1: just it's it's ways we've not only loved, we've kind
Speaker 1: of lost a relic of a bygone era in terms
Speaker 1: of values and culture and the feeling we should all
Speaker 1: have for for other people and and and especially in
Speaker 1: our love for the game of golf. You know that
Speaker 1: that find us together. Like I said before, I had
Speaker 1: the opportunity to spend quite a bit of time with
Speaker 1: Tom Wiskoff. One story I did for the Golf Channel
Speaker 1: was on the renovation of the North Course at Tory Pines,
Speaker 1: a municipal that gets over eighty thou rounds per year.
Speaker 1: And one thing that stuck with me was Weiskoff's knowledge
Speaker 1: and understanding of the avid amateur, in other words, his customer.
Speaker 1: This was where you won your first professional event. This
Speaker 1: was the first event held at Tory Pines eight. It
Speaker 1: was called the Andy Williams San Diego Open. This meant
Speaker 1: a little bit more to you because of the site.
Speaker 1: You don't have chances like this, man, I mean, this
Speaker 1: is uh everything you could ask for in a site.
Speaker 1: Sheer beauty, gentle, moderate changes of elevation throughout all eighteen holes,
Speaker 1: a reputation that's unparalleled. I've always been driven by the
Speaker 1: fact that twenty five million golfers in the United States
Speaker 1: do not break ninety half of the percent. Don't break
Speaker 1: a hundred eight and a half percent. You know, break ninety,
Speaker 1: but don't break eighty and one half of one percent,
Speaker 1: which is a hundred thirty five thousand, undred fifty thousand people,
Speaker 1: assuming they played by the rules, can break eighty. It's
Speaker 1: a hard game. The last time I spoke to Tom
Speaker 1: was in May of I was doing a story and
Speaker 1: podcast on how Lou Thompson, a trucker from Arkansas, purchased
Speaker 1: for students. Lori wise Coff helped me set up a
Speaker 1: zoom with Tom. Here's a big portion of what we
Speaker 1: discussed that day, as it wasn't just about fort dudents.
Speaker 1: All right to have a good meeting. There he is, there,
Speaker 1: I am where exactly arguments do? I Scoff. We are
Speaker 1: in Big Sky, Montana, at the Yellowstone Club where we live.
Speaker 1: Shortly after the zoom pleasantries, I went fishing for design
Speaker 1: details of for students. The only way this place works
Speaker 1: is because forest students. The golf course is as good
Speaker 1: to me as I don't. I put it in my
Speaker 1: top ten public courses in the country, and I've played
Speaker 1: a lot of public course and I don't think I'm overselling. Well,
Speaker 1: you're very kind, Matt. You know, it's an exceptional piece
Speaker 1: of property. It's a combination of Rowley Sandy Dunes, which
Speaker 1: is entirely mostly on the back nine itself, and then
Speaker 1: the front nine some water, natural water ponds, wetlands and
Speaker 1: meenters through the pines and the deciduous maples, oaks, that
Speaker 1: kind of thing. So it's a striking contrast, especially in
Speaker 1: the fall. How did you come across for students, Well,
Speaker 1: I worked for previous developer out of Scottsdale. We did
Speaker 1: the rim up in Pason, Montana, I mean Arizona, and
Speaker 1: he had a philosophy of a golf course community, private,
Speaker 1: exclusive club. And the thing that really only works against
Speaker 1: Forest Dunes is the fact that it's pretty remote. You know,
Speaker 1: it's pretty hard to get to. But you're pulling from
Speaker 1: a tremendous population resource when you consider Cleveland, Detroit, Michigan,
Speaker 1: and then the Upper Peninsula, which has a tremendous reputation
Speaker 1: for sports, and uh, that was the original concept. Did
Speaker 1: you feel like when you left there you had done
Speaker 1: something special? Well, I felt that, Um, you never know
Speaker 1: until after the fact and people play it and you
Speaker 1: get feedback and uh from the members, guests and who
Speaker 1: whoever goes there. It was initially a private, exclusive experience.
Speaker 1: And maybe that's what the downfall was. You know, there
Speaker 1: wasn't enough transition into that area from the standpoint of
Speaker 1: need to play golf. Um, but a tremendous piece of property. Man,
Speaker 1: you're I've said this forever. You're only as good as
Speaker 1: your piece of property and the ownership commitment behind that.
Speaker 1: So he marketed heavily. Uh. He spent top dollar in
Speaker 1: the specifications that were put into the golf course, and
Speaker 1: we had the freedom to route the golf holes on
Speaker 1: that property. I think it was about five acres if
Speaker 1: I remember correctly, and uh, we can put it. We're
Speaker 1: best suited for the golf holes and the golf experience
Speaker 1: to start with. That doesn't happen usually when you have
Speaker 1: a residential component, because the residential component usually drives the property.
Speaker 1: You know the result, the end result, but for for
Speaker 1: the most part is pretty much a core golf course experience.
Speaker 1: I don't know what's been developed since then, you know,
Speaker 1: it's been a long time since I've been back. But
Speaker 1: that combination of the front nine contrasting against the back nine,
Speaker 1: which is really a doony uh sand do kind of
Speaker 1: apple orchard uh open feeling is probably the real uniqueness
Speaker 1: of that piece of property, and we tried to simplify
Speaker 1: the strategic aspect of it. It's not heavily bunker but
Speaker 1: it has uh that old style of bunkering, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of jagged rough look. And then the by hole
Speaker 1: was there was a natural place to put that in there. Uh.
Speaker 1: That's a concept that I stole from Scotland. It was
Speaker 1: a shorthoul to be played, a playoff hole somewhere around
Speaker 1: the eighteenth green to settle all ties and bets. So
Speaker 1: it actually works after the ninth hole and actually after
Speaker 1: the eighteenth hole as well. So it had all the
Speaker 1: things that I wanted to absolutely have done if I
Speaker 1: could do it and was allowed to do it. And consequently,
Speaker 1: you know, people uh really enjoy it. I get a
Speaker 1: lot of calm comments uh and compliments from that particular
Speaker 1: golf course, So that makes me happy. That's all I'm
Speaker 1: looking for. I had enough controversy as a player, Matt,
Speaker 1: so I don't need anymore. Yeah, this was j Morrish
Speaker 1: wasn't involved in this one, correct, This was just you
Speaker 1: right now. That was just me Jay and I did together,
Speaker 1: and this was right after we parted ways. And I
Speaker 1: just had a great guy, Dave Porter I worked with previously.
Speaker 1: He was he represented a contracting group that we used
Speaker 1: before and off we went. But I spend an awful
Speaker 1: lot of time there because I really enjoyed it. You know,
Speaker 1: the Ossabo River a very famous river, great fishing river,
Speaker 1: and uh, just beautiful country. The superintendent told me that
Speaker 1: in two thousand and five, if they got twenty people
Speaker 1: playing the golf course, that was big day. I mean
Speaker 1: they had you know, had his staff like guys, people
Speaker 1: on property. I think you get to twenty players, that
Speaker 1: was a big day on the saturday. I was there
Speaker 1: just this saturday. You know, they've added the reversible routing
Speaker 1: by Tom Doak, and they just added a ten whole
Speaker 1: part three course and they got a putting course and
Speaker 1: they've had it add another hundred eighty rooms for lodging,
Speaker 1: and they've got about twelve fourteen houses but he's only
Speaker 1: selling those very selectively. Off the golf course. They had
Speaker 1: three hundred and sixty seven golfers on Saturday at four students. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's terrific. That is unbelievable. What time did they start?
Speaker 1: Six thirty? They had six thirty, They go to ten
Speaker 1: o'clock PM. It was wall to wall people. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is in the middle of the COVID and all
Speaker 1: the craziness. I mean, what what what do you think about? Like,
Speaker 1: think about how all of a sudden people are going
Speaker 1: to get to see and play for students, Like you know,
Speaker 1: I would the fan from the beginning, and I've always
Speaker 1: promoted it for all that and I've never had anybody complained.
Speaker 1: But what do you think about like going from twenty
Speaker 1: people to three six seven isn't that cool? Well? That
Speaker 1: shows you how the game is growing mad. I really think, uh,
Speaker 1: this virus if there's a positive about it From the
Speaker 1: standpoint of a support, I mean a sport gaming the momentum,
Speaker 1: it's certainly golf because of the the self distancing. You know,
Speaker 1: when you're playing and you're still uh communicating, you know,
Speaker 1: you're still socially involved, and it's really I really think
Speaker 1: This game is really gonna grow because of the tour,
Speaker 1: Because even though they don't have spectators the first couple
Speaker 1: of three weeks, you know, you can still watching on television.
Speaker 1: It's still exciting, and these young players are so good
Speaker 1: at what they do. I think golf will grow because
Speaker 1: of this virus. It gave us a chance to do
Speaker 1: something in tough times. So more people are realizing family time, space,
Speaker 1: time off the phone time, outdoor time, healthy activity time.
Speaker 1: People are coming to the game of golf right now
Speaker 1: as we speak, no doubt. And the younger generation, the beginners,
Speaker 1: the young kids because of their mom and dads that
Speaker 1: played this game and because they're a family that are
Speaker 1: out there together. And we have more we have more
Speaker 1: short courses two times, like, I think we're ready for
Speaker 1: this this wave because we've made you know, we got
Speaker 1: top golf and got short courses, Part three courses, putting courses, Like,
Speaker 1: I think we're actually ready for them now. I think,
Speaker 1: I hope. No. I'm doing two Part three's one at
Speaker 1: the Yellowstone Club and one of Spanish Peaks this year
Speaker 1: next So I'm happy about that. That's how I learned
Speaker 1: that play the game. Man. I grew up in Cleveland
Speaker 1: on an eighteen hole Part three golf course. It had
Speaker 1: one on each nine. They had one short four. You know,
Speaker 1: it was maybe two hundred sixty yards. That was a
Speaker 1: long part for you know, for a beginner. But the
Speaker 1: Part three's are in the game there. They're the starting
Speaker 1: point for the game. It's where you learn how to
Speaker 1: grip the club, but a chip pitched the ball, hit
Speaker 1: short shots. That's what the game of golf is. It's
Speaker 1: it's controlling your your your shot with the distance requirement. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a beautiful thing. And you uh, you know, I
Speaker 1: think this is I think you built arguably the greatest
Speaker 1: Part three in America at Olympic Club. I mean of
Speaker 1: all the things you've ever done. Do you get more
Speaker 1: positive feedback on the Part three course and anything else?
Speaker 1: Probably because anybody and everybody can play it. You know.
Speaker 1: I did another really nice Part three up at uh
Speaker 1: let me take Lahattin up out of outside of Tahoe
Speaker 1: at just outside of Reno, and then the Olympic Club
Speaker 1: and then just finished one a double eagle in Columbus,
Speaker 1: Ohio last year. So there's a demand. The only problem
Speaker 1: is it's trying to find five or thirty acres for
Speaker 1: that that facility. You know a lot of people don't
Speaker 1: have that, especially the old courses. But I just think
Speaker 1: it's a great way to play this game. Play the
Speaker 1: where the where the grandparents can play with the grandsons
Speaker 1: and daughters, and even anybody can play those type of holes.
Speaker 1: You know, everybody has a chance on a short type
Speaker 1: of requirement, Tom, I could. I would love to, you know,
Speaker 1: I would love to get more still worries from you
Speaker 1: because I'm so cute. I've always been a big fan,
Speaker 1: you know that. But you've also like, I'm doing one
Speaker 1: on Jack Nicholas catching that pound Marlin in Australia. Uh
Speaker 1: and I guess there was a bunch of tour players
Speaker 1: on the boat and he end up winning that Australian Open.
Speaker 1: But that'll be that's another story that I got that
Speaker 1: bank that will start off season two. But I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, just stories like that, I would love to
Speaker 1: get some, you know, I know you've You've lived an
Speaker 1: interesting life and there's so many you know, I love
Speaker 1: hearing your story, So at some point I love to
Speaker 1: circle back with you on on so much more. Well, anytime, anytime,
Speaker 1: you know, hunting, fishing, the outdoors. You know, we're a
Speaker 1: great part of my life. That's how I released my
Speaker 1: my tension or my my tour. Uh, just get away
Speaker 1: from a deal. It was always usually in September through December.
Speaker 1: I was somewhere outdoors doing something. You know. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: do you remember Jack catching that fish? Did you? Were
Speaker 1: you around it? All? Heard about it? You heard about it,
Speaker 1: and he and I went on some neat hunting trips
Speaker 1: together and fishing trips. Uh. He's quite a fisherman. He's
Speaker 1: he can really throw a fly, he can double hall,
Speaker 1: he can do it all. You know, that's I think
Speaker 1: of the one either hunting or fishing. I think Jack
Speaker 1: would always sho shot, choose fishing. You think he's as
Speaker 1: good of a fisherman as he is a golfer. He's
Speaker 1: pretty good. Uh no, yeah, he's the record book of golf.
Speaker 1: You know there there Uh what you think of fifty
Speaker 1: three times? As you well know, Matt, he finished either
Speaker 1: the third second or first eighteen first, nineteen seconds and
Speaker 1: what fifteen thirds? So that tells me somewhere on Saturday
Speaker 1: or Sunday he had the lead or was close to
Speaker 1: the lead to win again. You know. So that's a
Speaker 1: record that's to me that separates him a little bit
Speaker 1: from Tiger. Tiger very very impressive, great player, had an
Speaker 1: unbelievable dominating career, just like Jack, but still not fifty
Speaker 1: three times finishing third, second, or first and major championships.
Speaker 1: And he did it without trying to catch a guy
Speaker 1: named Jack Nicholas. You know, there's something to be said
Speaker 1: about that. Tiger has always had somebody or something to catch.
Speaker 1: Jack did it catching trying to catch any That was
Speaker 1: just self starting. Yeah, well that was That's that's what
Speaker 1: his mojo was. That's what his motivation was. You know
Speaker 1: how many major championships he prepared himself for major championship golf.
Speaker 1: The tour events were just preparation, that's all it was,
Speaker 1: you know. And he put the time into it too,
Speaker 1: you know, hard worker, very very uh prepared when he
Speaker 1: came to play. Yeah, well you're a gem, Tom, Thank
Speaker 1: you so much. I hope we can cross pass soon. UM.
Speaker 1: I don't know when or where that could ever be.
Speaker 1: But but I started my own production company. I I'm
Speaker 1: still telling stories about architecture and travel and UH. And
Speaker 1: this podcast is just good stories about the game of
Speaker 1: golf and UH and you know, I did Bill and
Speaker 1: Ben building uh Shan Hills and what that meant to
Speaker 1: be to the world of golf. I did the building
Speaker 1: abandoned Dunes with all the voices that that were a
Speaker 1: part of that, including David Kidd and Mike Kaiser. So
Speaker 1: I'm really trying to pick off these these meaningful moments
Speaker 1: in history and put them down from an with an
Speaker 1: audio experience. So I I'll ping, I'll ping you and
Speaker 1: Lori back in the near future, and I look forward
Speaker 1: to catching up soon. Matt, thank you so kind for
Speaker 1: your support, your your good words about some of the
Speaker 1: things I've done. I appreciate that. You know, Uh, I
Speaker 1: didn't do it all myself. You're you know, no one
Speaker 1: has all the answers. I had good people working for me,
Speaker 1: I I. We had great contractors, but most importantly we
Speaker 1: had tremendous pieces of property. And like I said, not
Speaker 1: to be redone. You're only as good as your piece
Speaker 1: of property. That for students is one of those special,
Speaker 1: unique pieces of property. Anyone could have done a good
Speaker 1: golf course there. Believe well, you did it. I'm a
Speaker 1: big fan of that course, but many others and uh
Speaker 1: and always will be so thanks keep up all the
Speaker 1: great work and uh, stay safe out there, Tom. And
Speaker 1: thanks thank Lori again for for helping set this up.
Speaker 1: And I'll be back with you soon. I'm sure you're
Speaker 1: You're great for the game, Matt. We we appreciate you.
Speaker 1: Loved listening and watching your videos. One last question I forgot.
Speaker 1: We call this podcast the fire Pit because it's the
Speaker 1: kind of stories you would tell or listen to around
Speaker 1: a fire pit. Do you have a favorite fire pit? Well,
Speaker 1: anywhere outside away from civilization, you know, out you know,
Speaker 1: maybe even close to a tent or a motor home.
Speaker 1: You know, just someplace where no one else is just
Speaker 1: watching the stars, you know. Uh, sunsets, those kind of things.
Speaker 1: Sunsets mean a lot to me. Sons, a good sunset,
Speaker 1: it's kind of your fire pit. Yep, that's it. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much, Mr Wiit couple talk soon, alright, man,
Speaker 1: have a great one. Good luck to you, Okay, take care.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna miss Tom Wiskoff and being able to have
Speaker 1: those types of conversations and listening in on that level
Speaker 1: of reflection. For some final thoughts, go back to our
Speaker 1: panel of perspectives. We start with Dave Stockton. It was
Speaker 1: just a special part for me to be a friend
Speaker 1: of Thoma's. And you know, we we we never we
Speaker 1: didn't live near each other's, we never got together that much,
Speaker 1: but we always had a good time when we played.
Speaker 1: And uh, I was always watching him, just because I
Speaker 1: thought that'd be illegal to be able to hit the
Speaker 1: golf ball that good. And it did puzzle me that
Speaker 1: he never, you know, and that puzzled me that he
Speaker 1: couldn't figure out the putting. And that day with he
Speaker 1: and Johnny Miller there in Minnesota, that meant so much
Speaker 1: to me, just to see his face slide up punt
Speaker 1: after putt after putt was going in. And uh, it
Speaker 1: was a special time. Michael Bamber he was one of
Speaker 1: my go to you guys if there was some funky,
Speaker 1: weird thing going on in golf, you know. Uh, and
Speaker 1: I wanted a you know, a real golfers uh understanding
Speaker 1: of it. I called up Tom Tom wise goff and
Speaker 1: on the record, off the record, in between uh, whether
Speaker 1: it was Dustin Johnson, uh, two thousand and sixteen at
Speaker 1: at Oakmont, and uh, you know, I remember why it's
Speaker 1: very clearly saying here it is from the player's perspective.
Speaker 1: Here it is in the U s J's perspective. You know,
Speaker 1: they're both right, but I'm going with Dustin Johnson, you know,
Speaker 1: because it was player to player at the end of
Speaker 1: the day. UH for him always. UM. But I feel
Speaker 1: the exact same way. I feel privileged to have about
Speaker 1: to know him. I think I first interviewed him, you know,
Speaker 1: I saw him really in his prime. I don't think
Speaker 1: I ever really interviewed hiuntil maybe the early nineties, but
Speaker 1: he was definitely one of my go to guys and
Speaker 1: uh um and yeah, he will be greatly missed, and
Speaker 1: as we would say of of not too many people,
Speaker 1: there will never be another like uh to wear all
Speaker 1: these different hats and wear him so well, there won't
Speaker 1: be another time. My scoff, Ben Crenshaw, I wonder do
Speaker 1: you think he leaves this world feeling appreciated and respected
Speaker 1: where where he sits in the game, and feel like
Speaker 1: his contributions are appreciated the way they should be. I
Speaker 1: know that I know that people have have remembrances of him,
Speaker 1: of an outstanding player, very thoughtful player. Uh. I think
Speaker 1: that I know that it bothered him when people say
Speaker 1: he was an underachiever, because he was so good. But
Speaker 1: he had a wonderful career, not only in golf but
Speaker 1: adding something to golfers lives that people enjoy playing his
Speaker 1: golf courses and and his philosophies and insights. And I
Speaker 1: think of one word about when I think of Tom Wiskoff,
Speaker 1: and it's majestic. What a swing. Hopefully, Matt, you know
Speaker 1: this little piece, along with other pieces that you're doing
Speaker 1: about time, will give people, uh an indication and an
Speaker 1: insight about what we saw was a very special friend
Speaker 1: and a great great man. And finally, Tom was an
Speaker 1: old world guy, uh in the sense he was kind
Speaker 1: of this old school man's man kind of guy. Uh.
Speaker 1: He's just a real high testostrom guys sort of. He
Speaker 1: loved he loved these you know, we loved hunting, fishing,
Speaker 1: loved being outdoors. He loved being in bars talking with
Speaker 1: with other guys who had big four ms like he did.
Speaker 1: And uh, he he just had this certain sensibility that
Speaker 1: we don't see much of. He came out of a
Speaker 1: middle class uh family. You know, his dad was a
Speaker 1: career like a railroad worker, and his dad had personal problems.
Speaker 1: It was in a way like you think that a
Speaker 1: guy like Wiscott might have been some golden boy, you know,
Speaker 1: things given to him, and but it wasn't quite like that.
Speaker 1: He was really he was self made in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways. And uh, you know what he became it
Speaker 1: it came through his own sweat and toil, you know.
Speaker 1: So I always think I always think of Tom Wisecoff,
Speaker 1: U just finally and almost a hollowed ways, a really
Speaker 1: really special guy. He The last part of that old
Speaker 1: world thing was I never knew he got sick again.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that he had relapsed and that this
Speaker 1: the pancreatic could huld come back as it so often did.
Speaker 1: He thought he was good, but he got sick again
Speaker 1: back in April. And it wasn't like this was front
Speaker 1: page news. You know why because I don't think Wiscoff
Speaker 1: wanted it to be front page news. He was a stoic,
Speaker 1: old time tough guy, you know. And uh. One one
Speaker 1: final take that he gave me was like he remember
Speaker 1: him saying he dreaded the thought of an open casket funeral.
Speaker 1: He thought that they were morbid and terrible. And he said, man,
Speaker 1: when when I'm gone, don't please close the casket. Don't
Speaker 1: look at me that way, So uh, just one of
Speaker 1: those funny things you remember about people. We lost a
Speaker 1: great golfer, we got lost a great commentator, we lost
Speaker 1: a great architect, and we lost a great person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: sure did, Maddie. Thanks for reaching out to me. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've I've enjoyed this uh trip to the memory bank
Speaker 1: about him, and it's good to see you too. Got
Speaker 1: another log on the fire we here is give the
Speaker 1: Time