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Speaker 1: Seeing him as always brought a smile to me. And

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I was when I was when

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Speaker 1: I just when he was just coming on tour and

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Speaker 1: he was coming up, I said, Man, that's the guy.

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Speaker 1: That's the guy I want to follow. Right there. He

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Speaker 1: was so much fun to follow, uh. And as I said,

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Speaker 1: I was just like a little kid around him. Put

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Speaker 1: another log on the fire nobody here and get the time.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the fire Pit with Matt Chanella. I wish

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Speaker 1: I didn't have to do this, but in this podcast

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Speaker 1: we celebrate the life and legacy of Tom Weiscoff. Born

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Speaker 1: in nineteen forty two in Massillon, Ohio, Wiskoff was the

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Speaker 1: oldest of three kids. His father, a railroad worker, and

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Speaker 1: his mother, Eva, both played golf. Weiskoff grew up in

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Speaker 1: awe of Sam Snead and in the shadow of Jack

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Speaker 1: Nicholas at Ohio State and on the PGA tour, so

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Speaker 1: it's no wonder he had a lauded swing and game,

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Speaker 1: nicknamed the Towering Inferno for his height six ft three

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Speaker 1: inches and a bit of a temper. In his younger years,

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Speaker 1: Weiskoff considered a fashion east had three careers in and

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Speaker 1: around the game of golf, winner of sixteen PGA Tour events,

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Speaker 1: one Open Championship in nineteen seventy three atroon he finished

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Speaker 1: second and four Masters, was part of two winning Ryder

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Speaker 1: Cup teams, and won a Senior US Open in beating

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Speaker 1: Jack Nicholas at Congressional. In addition to playing golf, Wiskoff,

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Speaker 1: who battled alcoholism and was sober since two thousand, was

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Speaker 1: also an analyst, calling the action at both the Masters

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Speaker 1: for CBS and later the Open Championship for ABC and ESPN.

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Speaker 1: And on my ranking of former players turned architects, Weiskoff,

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Speaker 1: who was credited with seventy course designs, redesigns, or renovations,

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Speaker 1: is second to Ben Crenshaw, who we heard off the

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Speaker 1: top of this podcast diagnosed with pancreatic cancer in Weiskoff

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Speaker 1: died on August at the age of seventy nine at

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Speaker 1: his home in Big Sky, Montana, where he lived with

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Speaker 1: his second wife, Lori. Today we're going to hear from

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Speaker 1: a pair of journalists and a pair of contemporaries on

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Speaker 1: Tom Weiskoff, the man, the player, the analyst, and the architect.

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Speaker 1: Michael Bamberger, who wrote a tribute to Tom Weiscoff, for

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Speaker 1: the Firepit Collective dot com offers his thoughts throughout this podcast.

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Speaker 1: Guy Yoakum, who spent thirty years writing for Golf Digestors

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Speaker 1: Here Ben Crench continues to offer his thoughtful perspective on

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Speaker 1: Weisskoff's life and career. Dave Stockton, who like Weiskoff, has

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Speaker 1: a passion for hunting and fishing, agreed to offer his thoughts,

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Speaker 1: and we hear from Tom Weiskoff, who I interviewed in

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Speaker 1: May of I couldn't be telling these stories without our sponsors,

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Speaker 1: so before we get started, I want to thank links

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Speaker 1: Soul for their support. The lifestyle brand that I've worn

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Speaker 1: exclusively for ten years, on and off the course, in

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Speaker 1: and out of the water is the product of my

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Speaker 1: friends John Ashworth and Jeff Cunningham. Use promo code fire

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Speaker 1: Pit your next purchase at link soul dot com. I'd

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Speaker 1: of the leather goods we offer at the pitch shop

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Speaker 1: at fire Pit Collective dot com, a family business based

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Speaker 1: in Canada. I'm honored the Bishop Brothers put our logo

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Speaker 1: on their artistry and the part points the innovative app

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Speaker 1: that changes the way you can score the game of golf.

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Speaker 1: and beginners, and I suggested for Buddy's trips. Looking for

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Speaker 1: something different, download the part points app now and go

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Speaker 1: make par We start this tribute to Tom Weiscoff with

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Speaker 1: Michael Bamberger. What do we need to know about Tom Weisscoff,

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Speaker 1: the man, the husband, the father, the grandfather. You know

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Speaker 1: he was He married a woman who was a far

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Speaker 1: bigger celebrity than he at the time of the marriage.

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Speaker 1: His wife, Jennie Ruth was her name. Then she was

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Speaker 1: Miss Minnesota when they married, and part of her gig

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Speaker 1: at Miss as Miss Minnesota was handing out invitations to

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Speaker 1: a pro am tournament in St. Paul's or whatever might

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Speaker 1: have been, something along those lines. And uh, and they

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Speaker 1: had a long successful marriage. Um. You know, marriages many

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Speaker 1: many are I don't know the number half of all

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Speaker 1: marriages and the divorce. But this marriage went for thirty

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Speaker 1: three years and buried two wonderful children. Tragically, Tom's son

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Speaker 1: died last year. UM. Eric Wiskoff, Eric Thomas Wiskoff, who

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Speaker 1: loved music and love golf and and live large, but

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Speaker 1: you know, had had issues in his life as Tom did.

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Speaker 1: Many people who followed Tom's life would know that he

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Speaker 1: quit drinking in two thousand and without getting into I'm

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Speaker 1: not qualified to get into it, and I would in

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Speaker 1: this format anyhow. But Eric had had had his own

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Speaker 1: similar kind of issues and and tragically they caught up

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Speaker 1: with him and and and claimed his life has long

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Speaker 1: before that. His his his first marriage broke up and

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Speaker 1: he remarried. But he has the surviving daughter, Heidi, with

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Speaker 1: whom I spoke this morning for for two hours, and

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Speaker 1: she was or a remarkable person, really bright and really articulate.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things I mentioned her was that

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite stories ever wrote was about Nan

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Speaker 1: Nicholas had Jack had four sons and one daughter, and

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Speaker 1: the daughter Nan Nicholas and Big Jack. They had one

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Speaker 1: trip every year, and that was to go to the Open.

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Speaker 1: That was the British Open, and that was their week together.

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Speaker 1: And that sort of opened up a door for Heidi

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Speaker 1: to talk about the many many uh E lab were

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Speaker 1: at fishing trips that big macho tall Tom Weiscoff and

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Speaker 1: his daughter went on to Alaska. She's talking about Kodiak

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Speaker 1: bears and you know all these different trouts and rainbow

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Speaker 1: trouts and steel heads and arctic charred, all these things

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Speaker 1: you see him menus like. She doesn't know him as

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Speaker 1: a menu item. She knows him as a fish in

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Speaker 1: your hands, and they would cook it up right there.

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Speaker 1: So they had a very rich life together. Tom clearly

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Speaker 1: loved both these children. Life is for all of us

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Speaker 1: has all sorts of curveballs in trauma, and I'm sure

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Speaker 1: they had their share, maybe more. But the underlying love

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Speaker 1: he had for his children and i'm sure for his

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Speaker 1: for his first wife as well, really carried the day.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we of course think of Tom Weiscoff

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Speaker 1: the golfer. But with his son Eric, uh they shared

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Speaker 1: hunting like he shared fishing with with Heidi, and they

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Speaker 1: went all over the world. You know, this is not

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Speaker 1: my thing, but this is not about me, you know,

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Speaker 1: big game hunting, uh uh. And with Heidi it was fishing,

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Speaker 1: and they went all over all over the world, maybe

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Speaker 1: in all over the world, below over the country, and

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Speaker 1: all over Alaska especially. He grew up, you know, working

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Speaker 1: class at best, and made money and enjoyed spending it,

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Speaker 1: but was but not in a crazy way, actually in

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Speaker 1: a in a conservative ways as high to as describe it.

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Speaker 1: One thing that we were really almost laughing about where

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Speaker 1: this fascination for fancy dressing came from. You would never

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Speaker 1: guess that this guy's profile, but would would lend itself

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Speaker 1: to like really caring, Like Jack ever cared Arnold. I

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Speaker 1: don't think every cared Trevino. I don't think ever cared.

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Speaker 1: Watson definitely didn't carry is one of the worst dresses ever.

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Speaker 1: But Wi Scoff really cared. And one of the amusing

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Speaker 1: things that Heidi said was that when you know, his

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Speaker 1: thing on tour was three weeks on, one week off,

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Speaker 1: and they played hard from February to October, like really

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Speaker 1: the end of September, and then he took October, November, December,

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Speaker 1: and January. He basically took off and hunted and fished.

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Speaker 1: So when he was going to go on the road

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Speaker 1: for three weeks, she said she had he had an

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Speaker 1: enormous wardrobe room whatever you might call it, with you know,

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Speaker 1: one of those mirrors like you see at the tailor

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Speaker 1: with the three sides, and the whole floor would be

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Speaker 1: carvered with rejects before he would decide what. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: my Christen hers, how did he get so interested in

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Speaker 1: purple and how did he get so interested in clothes?

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Speaker 1: And he's like, I don't know, but he did love purple,

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Speaker 1: and he did love clothes. Who knows. One of their

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Speaker 1: things from Heidi that was really interesting was that they

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Speaker 1: were letter writers, like whoever writes letters anymore? But they

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Speaker 1: they handwrote letters to another Eric and Heidi and the

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Speaker 1: mom and the dad. And there's a treasure trovial letters

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Speaker 1: and actually Heidi shared one with me, which I'm going

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Speaker 1: to write about later for those who are who are

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Speaker 1: interested in it. But you know that also a state

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Speaker 1: amount of value system from Yester from another area really

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Speaker 1: And here's Guy Yoakum, my former colleague get Golf Digest

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Speaker 1: who spent a lot of time with Tom Weiscoff over

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Speaker 1: the years. For Yoakum my shot on Wiscoff in a

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Speaker 1: Golf Digest in two thousand two. Wiskoff said his favorite

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Speaker 1: actor was Clayton Moore, the man who played the Lone

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Speaker 1: Ranger and so on Wiskoff's horse in Paradise, Arizona. We

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Speaker 1: had photographer Chip Simon's posed Tom as the Lone Ranger

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Speaker 1: horse hat and mask. Wiscoff very willingly played along. Here's

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Speaker 1: Guy Yoakum, reflecting on his friend. On a personal level,

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Speaker 1: he was he was noticed a towering inferno, terrible Tom.

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Speaker 1: He was known as temperamental and having a short temper

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Speaker 1: and all that, and there was some of that, but

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Speaker 1: you know, you look back, he never got suspended. He

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Speaker 1: never did anything that really, uh caused a ruckus or

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Speaker 1: where he really raised hell or through tantrums or that

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Speaker 1: type of thing. But he he kind of he had

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Speaker 1: a certain world view. He had a certain set of principles,

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Speaker 1: the way that he thought the golf and life should

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Speaker 1: be conducted. And it's something or something. If there was

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Speaker 1: a policy that he didn't like, if there was a

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Speaker 1: person that he didn't care for for his behavior or

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Speaker 1: a breach of etiquette, I mean, he would he would

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Speaker 1: he would go nuts. I mean he just could. He

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Speaker 1: would just he would raise hell. And you didn't want

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Speaker 1: to be on the wrong side of wise comp he was.

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Speaker 1: Uh So he was that. But but you know, he

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Speaker 1: had he had a lot of friends. He helped a

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Speaker 1: lot of people. You know, not everybody knows about this,

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Speaker 1: but he secretly helped a lot of old friends. He's

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Speaker 1: like one of the most loyal, loyal people to have

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Speaker 1: loyal friends, you could have, and he expressed he had

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Speaker 1: one friend, UH boy, his name. I always remembered his

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Speaker 1: name because he was there for a couple of interviews

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Speaker 1: I did with him, and his name was Dudley Merkel.

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Speaker 1: There's a euphonious appellation for you. But he would he

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Speaker 1: would talk about what an incredible uh friend that Tom was. Like.

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Speaker 1: One year there was a caddy Tom's caddy at the

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Speaker 1: Masters for many years, a guy named Leroy Schultz was

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Speaker 1: in sort of a bad way and he needed help financially,

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Speaker 1: and he he called Tom. And you know, he only

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Speaker 1: worked for Tom maybe two or three times a year,

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Speaker 1: but he knew Tom was somebody that he could turn

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Speaker 1: to in his an hour of need, and he just

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Speaker 1: dropped a call. It was hard for him to do that,

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Speaker 1: and Tom came to his rescue and I mean built

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Speaker 1: him up. Tom would never tell this, uh tell these

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Speaker 1: kinds of stories on himself, but he was He was

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Speaker 1: just a good person. I think after he had a

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Speaker 1: bad drinking problem. Self confessed bad drinking problem. Uh for

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Speaker 1: most of his career. He always said that he God

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Speaker 1: gave him all the tools and he kind of threw

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Speaker 1: them away. He thought that he should have won a

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Speaker 1: half full of agents and could have won three times

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Speaker 1: as many tournaments that he did, but he said he

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Speaker 1: pissed it away, you know. And uh, but there was

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Speaker 1: redemption in that story because I mean, he had been

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Speaker 1: sober when he passed. Uh, he had been sober for

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Speaker 1: twenty years, and he really, he really was on a

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Speaker 1: course for self improvement. He did improve himself. And UM,

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Speaker 1: I think the game has really lost somebody special. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you want to go to YouTube and watch some

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Speaker 1: of those masters and watch some of those u US

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Speaker 1: opens and just things on Tom wisecoffin and uh and

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Speaker 1: and look at that gorgeous golf swing again and know

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Speaker 1: that the man uh making those wings was a gorgeous

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Speaker 1: person on the inside too. On to Ben Crenshaw, let's

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Speaker 1: start with Tom Weiscoff, the player. I you know, I

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Speaker 1: wrote a little just like a three sentence deal yesterday

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Speaker 1: for I sent it to my manager, Scottie Sayers. I said,

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Speaker 1: if anybody wants to uh to read this, and it

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Speaker 1: was basically this, Matt, and he said, I said, we've missed, uh,

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Speaker 1: we've lost a great friend h and a great golfer. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And I said that I had such high esteem for him. Matt.

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Speaker 1: I can remember when I was sixteen years old, I

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Speaker 1: went to Houston and watched him play at Champions Golf

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Speaker 1: Club in Houston. I was sixteen, and I was so

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Speaker 1: I just followed him around like a puppy dog, and

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Speaker 1: I was just he had this golf swing that was

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Speaker 1: ah his posture. I think it was the best posture

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Speaker 1: I've ever seen about any golfer. He he always was

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Speaker 1: very tall and straight and he I asked him about that.

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Speaker 1: I said, I said, Tom, you're I said, you always

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Speaker 1: walk so tall and you sit sometimes. He said, my

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Speaker 1: mother always told me to sit up straight. And I

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Speaker 1: mean it was a paramount part of his golfpeling. He was.

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Speaker 1: He just had this golf swing that was so powerful

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Speaker 1: and so high, and but he could hit golf shots. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The long driver of course, and a beautiful iron flayer.

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Speaker 1: Back to Bamburger. I came of golf age when Tom

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Speaker 1: White scope was at the height of his powers mid seventies.

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Speaker 1: So tall, so slender, narrow hip, wide shoulders, beautiful dresser, pring,

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Speaker 1: old kashmere sweaters, argyle, purple yellow brown. He wasn't like

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Speaker 1: who would think yellow and brown works. But Tom White

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Speaker 1: Scoff made it work so handsome, great teeth, great smile,

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Speaker 1: and endured so much pain on the golf course, and

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Speaker 1: we were in pain for him because there were so

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Speaker 1: many year mrs. Of course, there was the great triumph

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Speaker 1: of the seventy three Open Championship at Shroon. So I

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Speaker 1: was always run to Tom Wiscoff. You know, it's hard

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Speaker 1: to think of someone with that physique as being the underdog.

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Speaker 1: With that swing, this guy's the underdog. But he was

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Speaker 1: the underdog. So I just gravitated to Tom Wiskoff as

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Speaker 1: they did Lee, Rovino and others. Of course, the gravity,

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Speaker 1: said Watson Nicholas too. I was an equal opportunity gravitate tour,

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Speaker 1: but Wiskoff was near the very top. And and and

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Speaker 1: believe me, I'm not alone. I would say literally millions

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Speaker 1: of others would Fel would say the same. Here's Dave Stockton, who,

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Speaker 1: along with Tom Wiskoff, is thought to have a resume

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Speaker 1: worthy of the World Golf Hall of Fame, which we'll

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Speaker 1: get to a little later. We kind of came up

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Speaker 1: sixty seven, was kind of He was champions choice of

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Speaker 1: Colonial in sixty six and I got it in sixty

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Speaker 1: seven and it was a dog fight obviously when I

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Speaker 1: won there in sixty seven. Uh, he got the advantage

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Speaker 1: of playing with Hogan last day, which didn't exactly work

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Speaker 1: out for him, but uh, you know I mean through that,

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's made some funny things. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: all the rational crap he got for not playing the

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Speaker 1: Ryder Cup when he had the sheep hunt planned that

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Speaker 1: I understood completely well why he was sheep punting. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to get it, and he was going for it,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know the feeling I got. I think,

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Speaker 1: you know some of the stories, one of the really

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Speaker 1: neat ones, uh to come to mind, But one where

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Speaker 1: he got me and and he had divine help was

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Speaker 1: the year that Nancy got died when we were playing

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Speaker 1: park City and Tom had to have Nancy on his shoulders.

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Speaker 1: When Tom makes it to like a twenty five ft

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Speaker 1: on seventeen and then makes it like a thirty five

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Speaker 1: or forty ft on eighteen to get in a playoff

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Speaker 1: with me and then probably makes another long putt, I know,

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Speaker 1: good for a fact, he never made three long putts

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Speaker 1: in a row, I don't think, but I mean he

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Speaker 1: did it for Bert, and that's Tom. Tom is a

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Speaker 1: very deep person. When you mentioned Bert Yancy earlier, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't know much about him. What was the reference

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Speaker 1: there that you felt like Yancey was was helping him.

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Speaker 1: Yancy and and Tom are good friends, very very good friends.

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Speaker 1: And where Yancy. You know, he's the only one that

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Speaker 1: built the greens of Augusta, you know, and just he went,

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Speaker 1: he was he really got deep into it, you know.

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Speaker 1: Just to clarify, Bert Yancey was so committed to winning

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Speaker 1: the Masters. The West Point captain of the United States

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Speaker 1: Military Academy's golf team once built clay models of the

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Speaker 1: greens at Augusta National. Back to Stockton, he had some

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Speaker 1: issues and I think Tom kind of relayed a lot

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Speaker 1: to him, saw himself in different things, and but he

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Speaker 1: and he and he and Tom are good friends. And

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Speaker 1: I think it was Thursday that Yancy passed away when

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Speaker 1: we're playing up there, and like I said, I mean,

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Speaker 1: Tom was really distraught and we talked about it during

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Speaker 1: the round and he says, yeah, I'm playing this, I'm

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Speaker 1: playing this for Bert, And I said, you go for it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's great. And the end, I mean

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Speaker 1: it was it was meant to be I'm sitting there going,

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Speaker 1: there's no way Tom can put this good. There's no

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Speaker 1: way he's draining these things because Yancey could put And

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Speaker 1: so I just figured I was two on one. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't really fair. But like you say, I've lost so

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Speaker 1: many playoffs, you kind of lose track of it. Back

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Speaker 1: to Gyokum and I say, Tom Wiskoff, what do you say, Um, well,

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Speaker 1: we've lost We've lost a unique guy. Uh. He's a

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Speaker 1: special guy. It's a person you immediately think he should

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Speaker 1: be remembered. But unfortunately, you know, I think there's a

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Speaker 1: whole generation that they don't really have a Tom Weiskoff

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Speaker 1: to remember he was. He was kind of gone off

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Speaker 1: the scene, certainly as as a player before before young

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Speaker 1: people had gotten a chance to see him. You know,

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Speaker 1: we have evidence. I would break it down this way.

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Speaker 1: If you're over the age of say, you'll remember sixty.

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Speaker 1: You'll remember Tom Wiskoff as a player, and what a

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Speaker 1: player he was. I mean he Uh, he's fabulous, underrated.

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Speaker 1: He had the most gorgeous swing. Uh, it's as good

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Speaker 1: as it gets. And it was unusual in a way

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Speaker 1: that you know a lot of golf swings they may

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Speaker 1: not be technically perfect. But when you put them in

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Speaker 1: motion and watched them in film, the rhythm other swings

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Speaker 1: is so good that it makes kind of an unorthodox

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Speaker 1: swing look beautiful. Um with Tom it but it's kind

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Speaker 1: of just the opposite. And he's the only guy can

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Speaker 1: think of that way. Like, Uh, if you look at

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Speaker 1: these photographs, the swing sequence of his positions and the

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Speaker 1: mechanics of that golf swing, it's just a set piece

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Speaker 1: of perfection. You just can't you can't uh make or

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Speaker 1: draw a skullf swing better that better than that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't think he was the logo of the PGA

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Speaker 1: towards logo that when we've seen him, but he very

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Speaker 1: well could have been. And you could have chosen any

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Speaker 1: one of ten positions in his swing and it was

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Speaker 1: just the stuff of dreams. But but his he but

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Speaker 1: when you saw him swing, his tempo was it was

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Speaker 1: an up tempo swing. It was kind of a quick swing.

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Speaker 1: We we tend to be drawn to kind of drowsy

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Speaker 1: beautiful swings. But for a great, big, tall guy, he

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Speaker 1: his swing was quite brisk and up tempo. Uh. But so,

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Speaker 1: I mean it could look better and still photographs than

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Speaker 1: a can in motion but in in In any case,

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Speaker 1: it was a beautiful swing and his accomplishments were exceptionally.

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Speaker 1: He won I think fifteen times, he got his major. Uh.

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Speaker 1: In some ways he was a case of what might

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Speaker 1: of what could have been, because he he finished second

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Speaker 1: in the Master's four times, and each one was more

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Speaker 1: heartbreak then the last. Uh. He told me that he

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Speaker 1: has lost in necklace at the seventy five Masters, where

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Speaker 1: Jack ran in that long patit at sixteen that famous

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Speaker 1: bear tracks. But he said that that did him in

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Speaker 1: uh psychologically, that he never quite came back from that emotionally.

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Speaker 1: Weiskoff actually won sixteen times and again won the Open

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Speaker 1: at Troon in nineteen seventy three. But for more on

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Speaker 1: the seventy five Masters, here's Weiskoff on Golf Channel's Morning

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Speaker 1: Drive being interviewed by my former colleagues there, Gary Williams

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Speaker 1: and Damon heck Well. Thomas, surely didn't take you a

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Speaker 1: long time to adapt to Augusta Nastal. He just showed

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Speaker 1: your record the seven top tens, four runner up finishes

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Speaker 1: at Augusta National. When you reflect on nineteen seventy five,

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Speaker 1: that magnificent Masters, that incredible duel involving Johnny Miller and

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Speaker 1: Jack Nicholas. What do you remember the most well? I,

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Speaker 1: you know, I go back to the last nine holes

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Speaker 1: and basically I mishit my my second shot. I pulled it.

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Speaker 1: It was a poorly played shot at whole number eleven.

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Speaker 1: It actually hit on the green about three or four

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Speaker 1: feet into the green, but uh, the contour of the

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Speaker 1: slope next to the pond took it down into the water.

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Speaker 1: I did get it up and down for a bogey.

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Speaker 1: So that was a great jump start right there, because

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Speaker 1: that is a very uh tough place to try to

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Speaker 1: get it, get the ball up and down when you

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Speaker 1: have to drop it behind the pond, pitch over the

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Speaker 1: pond to that back left pin placement, which it was

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Speaker 1: that particular day. Then I mishit my t shot at sixteen,

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Speaker 1: and the game of golf is a game of missus,

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Speaker 1: and uh, I went right to my putter. I was

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Speaker 1: on the front of the green and I had to

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Speaker 1: put across the slope. I had a very unusual situation

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Speaker 1: on that green that if I hit it real hard,

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Speaker 1: hard and play way right of the pin, I was

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Speaker 1: gonna give myself probably a six to ten foot put

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Speaker 1: at best and I just miss hit my putt. I

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Speaker 1: think I looked up a little bit. I was a

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Speaker 1: little bit anxious. I was feeling the pressure. So there's

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Speaker 1: three shots right there in nine holes, and that was

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Speaker 1: the difference. Other than that, you know, it was a

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Speaker 1: very exciting uh Masters for all three of us. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: Johnny played fantastic. He got off to a very poor start,

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Speaker 1: and then I got back into contention and had had

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Speaker 1: his chances also, But you know, Jack is just Jack.

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Speaker 1: You know, if there's anybody that's gonna make a put

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Speaker 1: like he did at six to be him, you know,

399
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Speaker 1: because he just never makes mistakes, and he made the

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Speaker 1: fewer that particular day. And consequently John and I finished second.

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Speaker 1: Tell you talk about Jack Nicholas, who had such great

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Speaker 1: reverence for him. Was it hard to get past that

403
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Speaker 1: knowing he was the best player in the game or

404
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: was that easy? No? I think that that's a very

405
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: good question. You know, any time you were you had

406
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Speaker 1: a chance to beat him, you know, it was monumental

407
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Speaker 1: for whoever it was, because he was the best. He

408
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Speaker 1: didn't beat himself. He was the smartest player out there,

409
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Speaker 1: a terrific decision maker, you know, he had a great competitor,

410
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: great concentration power. He could pop a chipping, pitching he

411
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 1: was so so, but he didn't have to because he

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00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: didn't hit many chips or pitches unless they were on

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Speaker 1: the par fives, you know, when he was up around

414
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Speaker 1: the green and two. But basically, you know, that puts

415
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Speaker 1: the pressure you want to beat somebody like that, he's

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Speaker 1: the best that ever played the game, and that it

417
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,959
Speaker 1: puts pressure on you. But that's the excitement of playing

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Speaker 1: the game of golf, putting yourself in a position to

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Speaker 1: beat the best. And uh, you know I didn't that

420
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Speaker 1: particular day, but I had some other chances where I

421
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: came through a various other places. But you know, it

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Speaker 1: just adds to the whole um spectrum of the day

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Speaker 1: is you're just watching him ahead of you all day.

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Speaker 1: You're watching him, really, you know, play almost bogey free golf.

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Speaker 1: He was down the fairway on all the holes, he

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Speaker 1: was on the green, you know, if he missed the green,

427
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,479
Speaker 1: he was on the right side all the time. You know,

428
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: so he just knew that he wasn't gonna beat himself.

429
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 1: And I think that that that in himself, uh makes

430
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: the day just that much more exciting, but it also

431
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: makes it much more pressureful. Everyone I spoke to talked

432
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: about the fact that weis Coff lived in the shadow

433
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: of Jack Nicholas. We start with Bamberger Well. A huge

434
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: thing was the shared background German sons of Ohio who

435
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: went to Ohio State. I think any uh, you know,

436
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: if there was a Brandell Shambilie of that era, everyone

437
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: would have said that Weiskoff was the better swinger. Um,

438
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:25,959
Speaker 1: Wiskoff is mechanically perfect, uh uh, so it looked like

439
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: Wiskoff should be Nicholas. One of the things that happened

440
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: in that era was that out of season football writers

441
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: would cover golf and like they were bored, so they

442
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: were looking to stir things up. So they sort of

443
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: turned Tom and Jack into a thing more than it

444
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: really was. But it kind of was the thing because

445
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 1: of Ohio and Jack was always extremely gracious about Wiskoff.

446
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 1: But Weiskoff, by his own admission, I think it took

447
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: him years to really be able to come to this realization.

448
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: For all his great, great skills, uh, he didn't have

449
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 1: the pay, he didn't have the plan, and he didn't

450
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: have He had the shots, but he didn't have that

451
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: mental fortitude of sticking it out for seventies goals that

452
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: the Nicholas had. So it was it was it looked

453
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: like a mismatch in Tom's favor, but it was actually

454
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: a mismatch in Jack's favor because as we know, golf is,

455
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: you know, the six inches between the years. At the

456
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: end of the day, they decided a lot. Here's yoakum

457
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: on the Jack factor. It mu it really did. He

458
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: felt that weight of a lot of it was expectation.

459
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: You could look at that golf swing and I mean

460
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 1: immediately people thought he would he would just set the

461
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: world utterly on fire. And then uh, you know, uh

462
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 1: he he would be Nicholas's equal, really and uh he

463
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 1: actually most of the contemporaries will tell you he hit

464
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: it better than Nicholas did. He was wise. Coop almost

465
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 1: kind of stood alone in his class as a as

466
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: a ball striker. And uh but as he told me,

467
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: you know, you can't forget that this phrase. I never did.

468
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: He said, but trying to beat Nicholas was like trying

469
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 1: to drain the Pacific Ocean with the teacup. And he said,

470
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: there was just this oppressive sense of pressure and it

471
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 1: was Jack's persona and oh Jack netflick Netlas a tough cookie.

472
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: And uh, he just knew the given time, Nicholas, he

473
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 1: gave you this look, he said standard on the first

474
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: take a look of doubt. Nicholas would look at you,

475
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,959
Speaker 1: kind of look down his nose at you and just

476
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 1: glare right through you and say, you know, just insinuate

477
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 1: you're gonna make mistakes. And you know what, I'm not

478
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: going to make mistakes. And he said, just that the nervousness,

479
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: the tension of wise God would say, I can't screw,

480
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: I can't make mistakes, which you know, invariably he would

481
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: make a mistake and it would just be a time,

482
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: a tiny mistake, and Wise Coff would know when that

483
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:01,719
Speaker 1: moment was when he made that mistake, and it scarreded. Uh,

484
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: it just it was hard for him to recover from it.

485
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: And and uh and who knows if if some of

486
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: that didn't lead to kind of to some of the

487
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: more of the personal issues he had and what should

488
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: have been the prime of his career. But that he

489
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: was great Nicholas, Uh speaks very speaks very highly at

490
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: Wise Cooff as a person. He liked him personally. Uh

491
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: like him as an high regard of him for him

492
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: as a player too. So back to Stockton, we all

493
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: know that he was under jack shadow, you know, going

494
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: to be the next Nicholas and all that had obviously

495
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: had a beautiful swing. And but he and I we

496
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: we had humor between us. I mean one year at

497
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: the Masters, I think it was seventy three, might have

498
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: been seventy two, but I believe it was seventy three

499
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: that he and I and Norvill Moody were in a

500
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: playoff for the on the Part three course at Augustin. Yes,

501
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: and you know you got an eighty yard hall of

502
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: you know how many thousands of people standing around. I

503
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: turned to Thomas said, Tom, hey, t you know this

504
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: is this is terrible to get nervous before the tournament starts,

505
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: you know, the day before. And he goes, you're looking

506
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: at right now? He goes, you're nervous, and I felt okay.

507
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: So he ends up drawing. He hit first, right. He

508
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: ain't one of the best shanks that I've ever seen.

509
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: I meant, it didn't you come close to any of

510
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: the people. Forget the green, forget the people. I mean

511
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: it went straight right. So he watched by me I said, Tom,

512
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 1: that was a hell of a shot for not being nervous. Huh.

513
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 1: And it was just, you know, we'd go back and forth.

514
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: I think one of my better story. And again, we

515
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: played the TPC up in in Blaine in Minnesota, and

516
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: we're playing the Legends portion of the Champions Tour and

517
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: and I'm playing, I'm playing with with he and we're

518
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: gonna play with Johnny Miller I'd played with the year before.

519
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: And we're staying on the green and I explained to him,

520
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna Miller will be telling us what

521
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 1: shots to hit because he's commentator and that's what he does.

522
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: And and Tom Turnmey says, what do you do? What

523
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: do you teach people? When you teach him putting? And

524
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 1: I go, well, everybody's different. We don't teach the same

525
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: because our job is to make him comfortable. What are

526
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: you Are you talking about somebody else? Are you talking

527
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: about you? And he kind of goes well, uh uh me,

528
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: And I go, I've been waiting to tell you this

529
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: for forty years. You know, you know, you stick your

530
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: your overlapping fingers straight down and you get long fingers,

531
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: stick it down on your left hand like it's gonna

532
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: help you keep it going to the hall, but in

533
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: reality it makes it stop. And he says, what do

534
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: you mean? So I showed him and he's I said,

535
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: I just want you overlap your little finger with that.

536
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: I don't want that left finger stuck way down. Well,

537
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: I said, you're gonna put first when we get out there,

538
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: because this is the best ball between the three of us. Whoever, whoever,

539
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: whoever teach shot was the best, which is gonna be

540
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: wise Coffs and whoever second was the best with might

541
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: be Miller or or wise coff And I said, I'll

542
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: put last. All that. Miller put in the middle and

543
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: Tom made eleven birdies and he missed one. Of all

544
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: the putt he had, he only missed one battle. He

545
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: missed a couple others, but all the others looked like

546
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 1: they were going in for eleven. That was a lot

547
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: of eighteen holes. And he's just we got through and

548
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: the county we tug and he shake hands and he goes,

549
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: why didn't you tell me that forty years ago? I said, well, Tom,

550
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: because I remember you were a superstar striking the golf ball,

551
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,959
Speaker 1: and I couldn't find mine. I didn't see you off

552
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: for me any advice I said, if you'd asked me,

553
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: I would have helped you, because I helped anybody I could.

554
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: For more on weiss Cooff's highlights, we go back to Crenshaw.

555
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: But I'll never forget that nineteen seventy three season, Matt Wow.

556
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: I mean eight victories. Uh. I think it started with

557
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: the the I VB Tournament in White Marsh. White Marsh

558
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: is one of the great courses of short course that

559
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: you had to threaten the needle on. He won there,

560
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: of course, that was when he won at Troon in

561
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three. But what a season he had there. Uh,

562
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: you know, it showed people the showcase of his talent um.

563
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: It shows you what he was expected to do and

564
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: what he could do. So Wiskoff gets his major. He

565
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: had five top fives in the US Open, with a

566
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: second place finish in nineteen seventy six. He had five

567
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: top tens in PGA Championships and again the four second

568
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: places in the Masters. Wiscoff joined the CBS team covering

569
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: the Masters in one as well as the stretch from

570
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: For more on Weiskoff, the TV analyst, we go back

571
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: to gayokum, what a game. So if you're six year over,

572
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: you will and you can carry in your mind's i

573
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: of that golf game and that swing and what he did.

574
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: That's what you'll remember. But if you're fifty and over,

575
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: you may remember him as a TV broadcaster and he

576
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: was one of a kind there. He had this incredible

577
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: blend of bluntness, honesty, really smart, original takes something. He

578
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 1: was able to put himself in the heads of the

579
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: golfers that he was commentating about, and he really it

580
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: was a journey. He was so perceptive, so smart, and

581
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: he had gone through so much himself. He was just

582
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: so good. Uh, great sense of timing, pretty good elocution,

583
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 1: nice voice to hear. Michael Bamberger. I would say what

584
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 1: Wiscoff brought to the Masters is exactly what Venturi brought

585
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: to the Masters, and what Johnny Miller could have brought

586
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: to the Masters is that that element of unrequited love.

587
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: And Faldo who really did the Masters very well, and

588
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: I don't think they got enough credit for it. Of

589
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: course he didn't have it. Greg Norman would have had it,

590
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: which is like it means so much to you. You

591
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: were so close to get in the jacket or is

592
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: Johnny Miller would say, but you know, I should get

593
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: a green est for all my uh, for all my

594
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: near all my near missus. But I think that you know,

595
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: Wise Scoff I talked to about Augusta a lot with

596
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: Wise Scuff over the years. I think he felt the

597
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: golf course very deeply. Of course his you know, he

598
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: became a renowned golf course architect later in his life,

599
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: So I think he felt the course. I think he

600
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: felt the weight of the history. And I think the

601
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 1: most significant thing like Ventury, and it would have been

602
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: the same for for Norman had he ever had a

603
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: chance to do it. Uh and Johnny Miller. But but

604
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: White Scoff did, and of course Ventury did. Was they

605
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: know what it's like to be in the thick of

606
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: it and uh and that gets conveyed and everything they say,

607
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: And they know how hard that you know, if you

608
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,479
Speaker 1: missed that that green un sixteen, they know how hard,

609
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: how precise you have to be with that pitch shot.

610
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: You know, it's not really a ship typically it's off

611
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,879
Speaker 1: in a pitch and uh and the lie and the

612
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: grass and the different grasses and the pressure and what

613
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 1: it would mean to have the jacket. Uh. He he

614
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: knew that and and and he conveyed that plus great

615
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: technical understanding of the demand. So you know, I can't

616
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: tell you chapter in verse. I just know I love

617
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 1: listen Wi Scoff at the Masters, and he was close

618
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 1: to Churkkenny and Chicknyan was the genius behind the coverage

619
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: of the Masters. And uh uh and that added a

620
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: lot to it. I think it. Maybe I picked up

621
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: on that later. I talked to Wi Scoff about it,

622
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,760
Speaker 1: but his comfort Chrickinny and Cherkennyan's comfort with him added

623
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: a lot to it. You know, just to go off

624
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 1: on a quick tangent there, but it might be interesting

625
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 1: to some people. One of the things I used to

626
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: say about Mark McCormick. Mark McCormick, for those who don't know,

627
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: was the founder by m J and you represented Gary

628
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: Player and Jack Nicholas and a Palmer at the height

629
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: of their powers. And he was a good, you know,

630
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 1: scratch golfer, maybe seventy five shooter, but he was in

631
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: awe of them, um. And he brought that awe to

632
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,959
Speaker 1: his sales, uh when he was selling the Big Three.

633
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: And I think chur Kenyan was in awe Venturian Wi

634
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: scoff for their golf skill and uh and he sort

635
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: of let them go on ways that he would into

636
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 1: more quote regular professional announcer. And I think that that

637
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 1: contributed to the coverage as well. Wiskoff was on the

638
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: call with Jim Nance when Jack Nicholas won the six Masters.

639
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,399
Speaker 1: Nicholas came to the sixteenth tea at seven under, part

640
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: having gone five under in holes nine through fifteen. Jack

641
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 1: Nicholas knowing he must continue the charge. He has to

642
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: figure that Bias Starros will make at least birdie back

643
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: at fifteen. If anyone has ever owned this whole, it

644
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 1: would be Jack Nicholas when he won his first Green

645
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: jacket back in ninette. He did it with a birdie

646
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: here at sixteen. And of course, who can forget Tom Wisekoff.

647
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: What is going through Jack's mind right now? He has

648
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 1: not experienced this kind of a streak in a long time.

649
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: If I knew the way he thought, I would have

650
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 1: won this tournament. No, seriously, he is just gonna fire

651
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 1: this right at the pin. He's gonna think, Jack, this

652
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 1: is time right now, make the swing that you are

653
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: capable of making. Stayed down accelerate through the ball, make

654
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 1: a good golf swing. Your destiny is right here. Really,

655
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: it's right at it. Oh my back on the te

656
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,359
Speaker 1: he really has no idea just how close he is. Well,

657
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 1: you know what the flag stick right over the bunker, Jim.

658
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 1: A lot of people don't realize the fact that Jack

659
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,720
Speaker 1: really doesn't see that. Well, he probably has no idea

660
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: really how close that ball is on the rain, anybody

661
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: else could see the ball. Blame me from that team, Tom,

662
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 1: That shot was within two inches of going into the

663
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: cup beyond the master's. Wiskoff also contributed to ESPNS coverage

664
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: of the Open, but on the back nine of his

665
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: life he did his best work in the dirt, with

666
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: at least sevent courses that he either designed, redesigned, or renovated.

667
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 1: Weisskoff the architect might be just as impressive as he

668
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 1: was as a player. He built a third of his

669
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: courses with Jay Morrish, who left the Nicholas design team

670
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,280
Speaker 1: to partner with Weiskoff. Some notable courses in the Wiskoff

671
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: portfolio include loch Loman in Scotland, Double Eagle in Ohio,

672
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 1: Koula in Kawaiti, TPC Scottsdale, both Pinnacle and Monument at

673
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,760
Speaker 1: Truon North in Arizona, c d A National Reserve in Idaho,

674
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: Tory North in San Diego, and one of my favorites,

675
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:03,240
Speaker 1: Forest Dunes in Ross Coummon, Michigan. For more on White's

676
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: coffee architect we start with Ben Crenshaw. I just said

677
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: that we are all missing and a great friend, a

678
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: great player, and a great architect we had. I had

679
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: so many wonderful moments talking golf architecture with Tom and

680
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 1: he would give you the time. He loved golf architecture

681
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: and he was damned good at it. Um. But I'm

682
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: just we're just thinking about Lorie at this time. You know,

683
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: we hated that people suffer like that, with a cancer

684
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 1: like that. Um, but we're very very sorry. But man,

685
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: we we we. He was a It was tremendously talented

686
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: golfer and fascinating to talk to. Always had a great

687
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 1: time talking to Tom. Isn't it ironic that here was

688
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 1: this powerful long player. But what really, uh really got

689
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: him to thinking was was the intricacies of and I'm

690
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: telling you what I think that he, above anybody else,

691
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 1: really put forward the the popular aspects of the short

692
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 1: part four. Like you said, I mean, that's seventeenth hole

693
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,839
Speaker 1: at Scottsdale is just one of the great holes I've

694
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,720
Speaker 1: ever seen. To watch everybody try to attack that hole

695
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 1: in their own way. Anybody can play that whole math.

696
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: You know, it's a short for but it's fraught with

697
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: a little danger um and it's it's it combines the

698
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 1: heroic shot but also combines the the the what you

699
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 1: think you can do with that t shot or how

700
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: cunningly you want to play it? Uh, And it combines

701
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 1: a lot of great finesse. But I think we we

702
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 1: talked about the twelfth hold at St. Andrew Is so much.

703
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: He loved that hole, and so do I. It's a

704
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a hole that you stand up on

705
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: the tea and you see the flag waving in the distance.

706
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: You can't see the bunkers out there in the in

707
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:16,280
Speaker 1: the middle, and you you kind of say to yourself,

708
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: when I played this whole the last time I played,

709
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 1: I played over to the right. No, I think I

710
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 1: played it over to the left. It's one of those

711
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 1: whole three. You just start scratching your head whatever wind

712
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: you have, and then that green is just one of

713
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: the great greens of the world. It's got that plateau

714
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: in the middle that runs across the green, and and

715
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: you know they put the pin right on top of

716
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 1: that table, and you just go, well, I do I

717
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: need to play it back or just maybe maybe go

718
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 1: ahead and try to drive it if you have a

719
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: falling breeze. So I think that he he grabbed a

720
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: hold of people's attention in a way that that reflecting

721
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: his architecture, in the way that he thought about the game.

722
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: You know, loch Loman is always going to be the

723
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: course where a lot of people think about what his

724
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: talents were. He absolutely poured his heart and soul into

725
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 1: that course, spent a lot of time there in Scotland

726
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: at Loch Loman. You know, he would show us the

727
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,399
Speaker 1: pictures of when he started working there. He said, man,

728
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: this is the most beautiful site you've ever seen. I

729
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: can't believe I'm building this course and it came out great.

730
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: It's a it's a nice staple on the European tour.

731
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: Loch Loman, the private course, hosted the Scottish Open from

732
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 1: two thousand one through two thousand ten. Waiscoff told me,

733
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 1: like so many other great architects before and after him.

734
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: That he borrowed specific strategic and design concepts from the

735
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: old course in St. Andrew's. For more, here's Guy Yoakum.

736
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 1: So if you're fifth year over your member TIV now,

737
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 1: if you're an if you're younger than fifty, and the

738
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,839
Speaker 1: thing that's gonna last will be really enduring forever will

739
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 1: be his career as an architect. And I mean his

740
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 1: Uh those golf course but they're all they're also special,

741
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: they're all good. It's uh, I've never met a golfer

742
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 1: who was not a wise cop fan. I mean he

743
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: he was innovative, he was daring, he kind of uh,

744
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,319
Speaker 1: he was the first accind he put a drivable par

745
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: four on every golf course that he that he built.

746
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 1: He was an innovator. I mean he didn't think twice

747
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: about making a split fairway. He would kind of let

748
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:39,439
Speaker 1: his imagination go wild. He um, not in a crazy way.

749
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 1: But he was creative. He was he was invented. He

750
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,839
Speaker 1: was kind of a man for the times. You know.

751
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:49,399
Speaker 1: He he built courses that were adapted to the modern player. Uh.

752
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: He did him with all golfers in mind. I mean,

753
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: when you're a Chopp or a guy on vacation. You

754
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 1: can enjoy his golf courses. Uh They're they're good tests,

755
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: I think for for experienced and better players. Uh So,

756
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: I think that the way we're always going to know

757
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: Tom now On will be his golf course. They'll continue

758
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: to give to all of us in the golfing world.

759
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 1: Here's more from Michael Bamberg. After I told him Weiskoff

760
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: was responsible for seventy courses. That's really neat that that

761
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 1: number is staggering. That because he was not a factory

762
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: as a golf course architect, and he came to it late.

763
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: So to have built seventy five courses, and as as

764
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: his daughter Heidi was telling me earlier today and still

765
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,879
Speaker 1: working on golf course design really pretty much right through

766
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: the end um is extraordinary. One of the things that

767
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: strikes me about the number, and I would have never

768
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: even gotten guests close to that number, is you gotta

769
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 1: be damn good to get seventy five jobs. In other words,

770
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 1: he wasn't Arnold Palmer, he wasn't Jack Nicholas in terms

771
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: of name recognition, because people would join those clubs just

772
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: to get to the cocktail party with Big Jack or

773
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 1: the King. But you know, Wi Scoff had definitely had charisma,

774
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: but he wasn't a name like those guys were. So

775
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 1: the fact that seventy people hired him or you know

776
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: that that's something that he built some courses tells you

777
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 1: that one he built really good courses, and that too,

778
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: he was really good at his job. In other words,

779
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 1: he got it in, you know, at the price he

780
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: said he was going to get in for. And the

781
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 1: three of that who was really good at personal relationships.

782
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 1: Uh So that's a very telling thing. And I'm glad

783
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: glad you brought that up, and I'm glad that I'm

784
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: glad that you have that perspective on on Tom the designer,

785
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,800
Speaker 1: because that's a very significant thing. And that's one of

786
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 1: the reasons why I happened to Beyond. I'll probably get

787
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: kicked off in pretty soon here, but for the last

788
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: few years I've been on the World Golf Hall of Fame.

789
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 1: I don't know what they call it. It's it's the

790
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 1: final committee that votes who gets into, who gets out,

791
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: and who who doesn't get in. And I've been pushing

792
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 1: for for for Wi Scoff, and they've got their categories

793
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: and it's complicated, and I try not to look at

794
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: it that way. I try to look like, what in

795
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: this particular case, what is the impact of the man

796
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 1: in golf? And there's you know, it's coverage of the Masters,

797
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:10,800
Speaker 1: the incredible playing career, the error in which she played,

798
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,359
Speaker 1: and then as you as you're as we're discussing now

799
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,720
Speaker 1: golf courses. So when you talk about a golfing life,

800
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 1: this guy belongs in the World Golf Hall of Fame

801
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 1: because of the golfing life and the architecture is a

802
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 1: big significant part of it. And there's our segue to

803
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 1: the snubbing by the World Golf Hall of Fame again.

804
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 1: Sixt PGA Tour wins, one major and one Senior US Open.

805
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 1: That puts him on the line of debate. Fred Couple's

806
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: fifteen wins and one major. He's in Colin Montgomery, no

807
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:49,320
Speaker 1: tour wins or major's. He's in. Marion Hollands, a pioneer

808
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 1: who helped the development opposit, Tampo and Augusta National just

809
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 1: went in as a contributor. Tom Weisskoff for his body

810
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 1: of contributions as a player analyst, and our contect deserves

811
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: to be in. Here's more from Bamberger. We don't want

812
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: to make this about the World Golf Hall of Fame

813
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: their selection process, but I think they've made it too complicated.

814
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: Um to some degree, they not to some degree, they

815
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,359
Speaker 1: do have a white man American, white male American problem.

816
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: They're trying to make it more of a World Golf

817
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame and represent women more and people of

818
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: color more. And I think that's great and totally appropriate.

819
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: But you know, in Stockton, you can make a great

820
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 1: case for Stockton, and people want to make a his

821
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,399
Speaker 1: or this person that person, but I don't know who

822
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,439
Speaker 1: you If you could just simplify the process and say,

823
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 1: is this guy a Hall of Famer however you might

824
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 1: define it, there's there's too much emphasis on what is

825
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 1: actually the criteria rather than here's the impact the person

826
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 1: had on the game. Uh And look, this guy played

827
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: in the in my opinion, you know, the greatest ever

828
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:55,959
Speaker 1: era of certainly American golf. Uh and was a core

829
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,399
Speaker 1: member of it. And then have these other major contributions

830
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: to the game him. He clearly belongs in my opinion.

831
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 1: Ben Crnshaw's perspective, the idea that he's not in the

832
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame to me is is bonkers. I just

833
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: wonder if you also feel the same. It's an oversight.

834
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 1: It's an oversight to this point, and I think that

835
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 1: it's a uh, no question oversight of someone who really

836
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 1: meant something to the game and and to the players.

837
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 1: I mean, we were fascinated by his comments. He was

838
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 1: so candid and you know, if he believed in something,

839
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 1: he'd say it. Uh. I'm not saying controversial, but probably

840
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 1: one of the most controversial things that Tom ever did

841
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 1: was laying out during the Ryder Cup that year that

842
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: he was on the team and he said, you know what,

843
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go hunting. And he got a little he

844
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 1: got some flak for that. That was unbelievable. Uh, But

845
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 1: hunting was a great, great part of his life, as

846
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:07,720
Speaker 1: you know, you know, he he talked about that so much,

847
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:12,879
Speaker 1: you know, not only in Montana but northern Arizona, and uh,

848
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: it was a great, great part of his life. Dave

849
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: Stockton won ten PGA Tour events, two p g A championships,

850
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 1: was part of two winning Writer Cup teams, and captained

851
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: the famous ninety one team that won a Kiowa Plus.

852
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 1: Stockton has had a prolific career helping thousands of people

853
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: with their putting, most notably Phil Nicholson, Rory McElroy, Matt Coucher,

854
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 1: Francesco Molinari, and Anika, who after Stockton worked with her,

855
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 1: won seventeen times in the next two seasons. And Dave

856
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 1: Stockton is also not in. My feeling is that it

857
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: golf in the Hall of Fame like Cheese, She's in

858
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,320
Speaker 1: the Hall of fame, and rightly so because the humanitarian

859
00:50:55,360 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 1: that he was. It wasn't all the golf, but I

860
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,919
Speaker 1: think Tom definitely should be. I know he's only won

861
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:08,360
Speaker 1: one major, uh i'll, i'll, and I think he's the

862
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 1: courses he's created and what it what it stood for,

863
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 1: I think that counts. It's just like all the corporate

864
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 1: stuff I've done and all the people I've helped by

865
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 1: the teaching is equivalent of kind of what he did

866
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:22,959
Speaker 1: with the course because and the only reason I didn't

867
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 1: get into courses is I wanted to be able to

868
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 1: spend more time uh, hunting and fishing, and I'm you know,

869
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 1: I'm perfectionists in some regards, and so consequently, um, I

870
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 1: like the idea that I could do corporatealities and be

871
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 1: around people and help him and the teaching has been

872
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 1: a real bonus. Um, I will dispute when you said

873
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 1: I want ten. I'm still ticked off that I won

874
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,240
Speaker 1: eleven tournaments. One was the Hague and Hague with Lorie

875
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 1: Hammer out of Florida at La Costa, and the PGA

876
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,399
Speaker 1: eighteen years later took it away from me. And it's

877
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 1: the same format they're now playing it at New Orleans.

878
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:00,919
Speaker 1: So I still haven't figured that out. But they told

879
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 1: me they took some away from a lot of other people.

880
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 1: But UM, I don't know. I yeah, I would love

881
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 1: to be honored and I love to see Tom honored. Uh,

882
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: but again, I don't know how much how much good

883
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: it does after you're gone when they would have been fun,

884
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:19,840
Speaker 1: if it had been fun, if he had been conducted

885
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:21,879
Speaker 1: five years ago or something, when he was in good

886
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,839
Speaker 1: shape and everything, and you said he's rounded out, he's

887
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 1: mellowed out. He he really appreciated his place in the

888
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:32,240
Speaker 1: game of golf. And it wasn't just about the wins.

889
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 1: It was about all the rest. And uh, it's kind

890
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,839
Speaker 1: of it's sad, but I mean it's you know, if

891
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,400
Speaker 1: it if it's meant to be later on, But again

892
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: I feel sorry he's not here to enjoy something that

893
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 1: he should have been a part of. Here's Guy Yoko

894
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 1: on a final assessment of Weiss Cooff, the player, analyst,

895
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 1: and architect. By any sensible criteria, he should be in

896
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: the World Golf Hall of Fame on any one of

897
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 1: those three counts. The board, the broadcasting, maybe borderline. Uh

898
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 1: he wasn't. His career wasn't that long, and broadcasting it

899
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: was on his terms. They beg they loved to have

900
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: him there. He just kind of grew bored with it

901
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 1: and stepped away. But I know it's an oversight. Uh

902
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:20,280
Speaker 1: boy stalked into Oh my gosh, it's it's almost criminal

903
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 1: that they're not there. But it'll happen now, you know,

904
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 1: these things that tend to happened postumously. But it's too

905
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 1: bad he didn't see it. I don't think things like that, accolades, awards,

906
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 1: uh money, those things were not really important to Tom

907
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:39,800
Speaker 1: wise Coff. It's I know, it's hard to imagine with

908
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:44,840
Speaker 1: the values most of us carry around today, but that guy,

909
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 1: all he wanted were his friends. Uh, he wanted he

910
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:54,799
Speaker 1: loved his family, he loved his son Eric. He had

911
00:53:54,880 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 1: remained friendly with his his his wife Jeannie law long

912
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 1: after they split up. Um, he kind of just had

913
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:09,359
Speaker 1: a sense for what was important. And uh, um, it's

914
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 1: just it's it's ways we've not only loved, we've kind

915
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 1: of lost a relic of a bygone era in terms

916
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 1: of values and culture and the feeling we should all

917
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:23,360
Speaker 1: have for for other people and and and especially in

918
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 1: our love for the game of golf. You know that

919
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 1: that find us together. Like I said before, I had

920
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 1: the opportunity to spend quite a bit of time with

921
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:33,800
Speaker 1: Tom Wiskoff. One story I did for the Golf Channel

922
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:36,320
Speaker 1: was on the renovation of the North Course at Tory Pines,

923
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 1: a municipal that gets over eighty thou rounds per year.

924
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 1: And one thing that stuck with me was Weiskoff's knowledge

925
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 1: and understanding of the avid amateur, in other words, his customer.

926
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: This was where you won your first professional event. This

927
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 1: was the first event held at Tory Pines eight. It

928
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 1: was called the Andy Williams San Diego Open. This meant

929
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 1: a little bit more to you because of the site.

930
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 1: You don't have chances like this, man, I mean, this

931
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,760
Speaker 1: is uh everything you could ask for in a site.

932
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 1: Sheer beauty, gentle, moderate changes of elevation throughout all eighteen holes,

933
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 1: a reputation that's unparalleled. I've always been driven by the

934
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 1: fact that twenty five million golfers in the United States

935
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:30,439
Speaker 1: do not break ninety half of the percent. Don't break

936
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 1: a hundred eight and a half percent. You know, break ninety,

937
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:39,240
Speaker 1: but don't break eighty and one half of one percent,

938
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: which is a hundred thirty five thousand, undred fifty thousand people,

939
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 1: assuming they played by the rules, can break eighty. It's

940
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 1: a hard game. The last time I spoke to Tom

941
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:52,799
Speaker 1: was in May of I was doing a story and

942
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 1: podcast on how Lou Thompson, a trucker from Arkansas, purchased

943
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 1: for students. Lori wise Coff helped me set up a

944
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 1: zoom with Tom. Here's a big portion of what we

945
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 1: discussed that day, as it wasn't just about fort dudents.

946
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 1: All right to have a good meeting. There he is, there,

947
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:18,319
Speaker 1: I am where exactly arguments do? I Scoff. We are

948
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:22,439
Speaker 1: in Big Sky, Montana, at the Yellowstone Club where we live.

949
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 1: Shortly after the zoom pleasantries, I went fishing for design

950
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 1: details of for students. The only way this place works

951
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 1: is because forest students. The golf course is as good

952
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:37,680
Speaker 1: to me as I don't. I put it in my

953
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,320
Speaker 1: top ten public courses in the country, and I've played

954
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 1: a lot of public course and I don't think I'm overselling. Well,

955
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:48,520
Speaker 1: you're very kind, Matt. You know, it's an exceptional piece

956
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:54,240
Speaker 1: of property. It's a combination of Rowley Sandy Dunes, which

957
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 1: is entirely mostly on the back nine itself, and then

958
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: the front nine some water, natural water ponds, wetlands and

959
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 1: meenters through the pines and the deciduous maples, oaks, that

960
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:15,799
Speaker 1: kind of thing. So it's a striking contrast, especially in

961
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 1: the fall. How did you come across for students, Well,

962
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 1: I worked for previous developer out of Scottsdale. We did

963
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 1: the rim up in Pason, Montana, I mean Arizona, and

964
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 1: he had a philosophy of a golf course community, private,

965
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 1: exclusive club. And the thing that really only works against

966
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 1: Forest Dunes is the fact that it's pretty remote. You know,

967
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:52,919
Speaker 1: it's pretty hard to get to. But you're pulling from

968
00:57:52,960 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 1: a tremendous population resource when you consider Cleveland, Detroit, Michigan,

969
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 1: and then the Upper Peninsula, which has a tremendous reputation

970
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 1: for sports, and uh, that was the original concept. Did

971
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 1: you feel like when you left there you had done

972
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 1: something special? Well, I felt that, Um, you never know

973
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 1: until after the fact and people play it and you

974
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 1: get feedback and uh from the members, guests and who

975
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 1: whoever goes there. It was initially a private, exclusive experience.

976
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 1: And maybe that's what the downfall was. You know, there

977
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:45,360
Speaker 1: wasn't enough transition into that area from the standpoint of

978
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 1: need to play golf. Um, but a tremendous piece of property. Man,

979
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 1: you're I've said this forever. You're only as good as

980
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 1: your piece of property and the ownership commitment behind that.

981
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 1: So he marketed heavily. Uh. He spent top dollar in

982
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 1: the specifications that were put into the golf course, and

983
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 1: we had the freedom to route the golf holes on

984
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 1: that property. I think it was about five acres if

985
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 1: I remember correctly, and uh, we can put it. We're

986
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 1: best suited for the golf holes and the golf experience

987
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 1: to start with. That doesn't happen usually when you have

988
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 1: a residential component, because the residential component usually drives the property.

989
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 1: You know the result, the end result, but for for

990
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 1: the most part is pretty much a core golf course experience.

991
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:48,760
Speaker 1: I don't know what's been developed since then, you know,

992
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:51,440
Speaker 1: it's been a long time since I've been back. But

993
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 1: that combination of the front nine contrasting against the back nine,

994
00:59:56,320 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 1: which is really a doony uh sand do kind of

995
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 1: apple orchard uh open feeling is probably the real uniqueness

996
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 1: of that piece of property, and we tried to simplify

997
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:16,400
Speaker 1: the strategic aspect of it. It's not heavily bunker but

998
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 1: it has uh that old style of bunkering, you know,

999
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 1: kind of jagged rough look. And then the by hole

1000
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 1: was there was a natural place to put that in there. Uh.

1001
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 1: That's a concept that I stole from Scotland. It was

1002
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 1: a shorthoul to be played, a playoff hole somewhere around

1003
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 1: the eighteenth green to settle all ties and bets. So

1004
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 1: it actually works after the ninth hole and actually after

1005
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:47,160
Speaker 1: the eighteenth hole as well. So it had all the

1006
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 1: things that I wanted to absolutely have done if I

1007
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:54,400
Speaker 1: could do it and was allowed to do it. And consequently,

1008
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 1: you know, people uh really enjoy it. I get a

1009
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 1: lot of calm comments uh and compliments from that particular

1010
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 1: golf course, So that makes me happy. That's all I'm

1011
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 1: looking for. I had enough controversy as a player, Matt,

1012
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 1: so I don't need anymore. Yeah, this was j Morrish

1013
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:17,960
Speaker 1: wasn't involved in this one, correct, This was just you

1014
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 1: right now. That was just me Jay and I did together,

1015
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 1: and this was right after we parted ways. And I

1016
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:35,920
Speaker 1: just had a great guy, Dave Porter I worked with previously.

1017
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 1: He was he represented a contracting group that we used

1018
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:44,960
Speaker 1: before and off we went. But I spend an awful

1019
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:47,680
Speaker 1: lot of time there because I really enjoyed it. You know,

1020
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:52,120
Speaker 1: the Ossabo River a very famous river, great fishing river,

1021
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:55,920
Speaker 1: and uh, just beautiful country. The superintendent told me that

1022
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 1: in two thousand and five, if they got twenty people

1023
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:00,960
Speaker 1: playing the golf course, that was big day. I mean

1024
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 1: they had you know, had his staff like guys, people

1025
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:06,960
Speaker 1: on property. I think you get to twenty players, that

1026
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:09,959
Speaker 1: was a big day on the saturday. I was there

1027
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 1: just this saturday. You know, they've added the reversible routing

1028
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 1: by Tom Doak, and they just added a ten whole

1029
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 1: part three course and they got a putting course and

1030
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 1: they've had it add another hundred eighty rooms for lodging,

1031
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:24,640
Speaker 1: and they've got about twelve fourteen houses but he's only

1032
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:29,680
Speaker 1: selling those very selectively. Off the golf course. They had

1033
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 1: three hundred and sixty seven golfers on Saturday at four students. Wow,

1034
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:40,120
Speaker 1: that's terrific. That is unbelievable. What time did they start?

1035
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:44,920
Speaker 1: Six thirty? They had six thirty, They go to ten

1036
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:48,480
Speaker 1: o'clock PM. It was wall to wall people. I mean,

1037
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:50,120
Speaker 1: this is in the middle of the COVID and all

1038
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 1: the craziness. I mean, what what what do you think about? Like,

1039
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:56,240
Speaker 1: think about how all of a sudden people are going

1040
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 1: to get to see and play for students, Like you know,

1041
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 1: I would the fan from the beginning, and I've always

1042
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 1: promoted it for all that and I've never had anybody complained.

1043
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:07,360
Speaker 1: But what do you think about like going from twenty

1044
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:11,000
Speaker 1: people to three six seven isn't that cool? Well? That

1045
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 1: shows you how the game is growing mad. I really think, uh,

1046
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:18,880
Speaker 1: this virus if there's a positive about it From the

1047
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:24,360
Speaker 1: standpoint of a support, I mean a sport gaming the momentum,

1048
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 1: it's certainly golf because of the the self distancing. You know,

1049
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:34,840
Speaker 1: when you're playing and you're still uh communicating, you know,

1050
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:40,479
Speaker 1: you're still socially involved, and it's really I really think

1051
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:44,400
Speaker 1: This game is really gonna grow because of the tour,

1052
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 1: Because even though they don't have spectators the first couple

1053
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 1: of three weeks, you know, you can still watching on television.

1054
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 1: It's still exciting, and these young players are so good

1055
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:58,400
Speaker 1: at what they do. I think golf will grow because

1056
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 1: of this virus. It gave us a chance to do

1057
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 1: something in tough times. So more people are realizing family time, space,

1058
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 1: time off the phone time, outdoor time, healthy activity time.

1059
01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:18,400
Speaker 1: People are coming to the game of golf right now

1060
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 1: as we speak, no doubt. And the younger generation, the beginners,

1061
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:26,480
Speaker 1: the young kids because of their mom and dads that

1062
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:29,920
Speaker 1: played this game and because they're a family that are

1063
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:33,080
Speaker 1: out there together. And we have more we have more

1064
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 1: short courses two times, like, I think we're ready for

1065
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 1: this this wave because we've made you know, we got

1066
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 1: top golf and got short courses, Part three courses, putting courses, Like,

1067
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:47,600
Speaker 1: I think we're actually ready for them now. I think,

1068
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 1: I hope. No. I'm doing two Part three's one at

1069
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 1: the Yellowstone Club and one of Spanish Peaks this year

1070
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 1: next So I'm happy about that. That's how I learned

1071
01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:02,480
Speaker 1: that play the game. Man. I grew up in Cleveland

1072
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 1: on an eighteen hole Part three golf course. It had

1073
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:11,160
Speaker 1: one on each nine. They had one short four. You know,

1074
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:13,920
Speaker 1: it was maybe two hundred sixty yards. That was a

1075
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:18,400
Speaker 1: long part for you know, for a beginner. But the

1076
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:22,920
Speaker 1: Part three's are in the game there. They're the starting

1077
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 1: point for the game. It's where you learn how to

1078
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 1: grip the club, but a chip pitched the ball, hit

1079
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:32,720
Speaker 1: short shots. That's what the game of golf is. It's

1080
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:39,760
Speaker 1: it's controlling your your your shot with the distance requirement. Yeah,

1081
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:43,080
Speaker 1: it's a beautiful thing. And you uh, you know, I

1082
01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 1: think this is I think you built arguably the greatest

1083
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:52,240
Speaker 1: Part three in America at Olympic Club. I mean of

1084
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 1: all the things you've ever done. Do you get more

1085
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 1: positive feedback on the Part three course and anything else?

1086
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:03,840
Speaker 1: Probably because anybody and everybody can play it. You know.

1087
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 1: I did another really nice Part three up at uh

1088
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:14,880
Speaker 1: let me take Lahattin up out of outside of Tahoe

1089
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:18,680
Speaker 1: at just outside of Reno, and then the Olympic Club

1090
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 1: and then just finished one a double eagle in Columbus,

1091
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:26,800
Speaker 1: Ohio last year. So there's a demand. The only problem

1092
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 1: is it's trying to find five or thirty acres for

1093
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 1: that that facility. You know a lot of people don't

1094
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:38,080
Speaker 1: have that, especially the old courses. But I just think

1095
01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:40,680
Speaker 1: it's a great way to play this game. Play the

1096
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:44,800
Speaker 1: where the where the grandparents can play with the grandsons

1097
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:48,880
Speaker 1: and daughters, and even anybody can play those type of holes.

1098
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:52,960
Speaker 1: You know, everybody has a chance on a short type

1099
01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:57,840
Speaker 1: of requirement, Tom, I could. I would love to, you know,

1100
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:00,560
Speaker 1: I would love to get more still worries from you

1101
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:02,800
Speaker 1: because I'm so cute. I've always been a big fan,

1102
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:06,040
Speaker 1: you know that. But you've also like, I'm doing one

1103
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:10,960
Speaker 1: on Jack Nicholas catching that pound Marlin in Australia. Uh

1104
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:12,760
Speaker 1: and I guess there was a bunch of tour players

1105
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:14,880
Speaker 1: on the boat and he end up winning that Australian Open.

1106
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:18,520
Speaker 1: But that'll be that's another story that I got that

1107
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:21,680
Speaker 1: bank that will start off season two. But I mean,

1108
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:24,000
Speaker 1: you know, just stories like that, I would love to

1109
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:26,440
Speaker 1: get some, you know, I know you've You've lived an

1110
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:30,000
Speaker 1: interesting life and there's so many you know, I love

1111
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:32,440
Speaker 1: hearing your story, So at some point I love to

1112
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:37,440
Speaker 1: circle back with you on on so much more. Well, anytime, anytime,

1113
01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:41,920
Speaker 1: you know, hunting, fishing, the outdoors. You know, we're a

1114
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:45,320
Speaker 1: great part of my life. That's how I released my

1115
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:51,720
Speaker 1: my tension or my my tour. Uh, just get away

1116
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:56,960
Speaker 1: from a deal. It was always usually in September through December.

1117
01:07:57,120 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 1: I was somewhere outdoors doing something. You know. Yeah, yeah,

1118
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:05,000
Speaker 1: do you remember Jack catching that fish? Did you? Were

1119
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 1: you around it? All? Heard about it? You heard about it,

1120
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:11,440
Speaker 1: and he and I went on some neat hunting trips

1121
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:15,640
Speaker 1: together and fishing trips. Uh. He's quite a fisherman. He's

1122
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 1: he can really throw a fly, he can double hall,

1123
01:08:19,280 --> 01:08:21,760
Speaker 1: he can do it all. You know, that's I think

1124
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:24,760
Speaker 1: of the one either hunting or fishing. I think Jack

1125
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:29,960
Speaker 1: would always sho shot, choose fishing. You think he's as

1126
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:34,040
Speaker 1: good of a fisherman as he is a golfer. He's

1127
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:38,519
Speaker 1: pretty good. Uh no, yeah, he's the record book of golf.

1128
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:43,240
Speaker 1: You know there there Uh what you think of fifty

1129
01:08:43,360 --> 01:08:46,960
Speaker 1: three times? As you well know, Matt, he finished either

1130
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 1: the third second or first eighteen first, nineteen seconds and

1131
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:58,800
Speaker 1: what fifteen thirds? So that tells me somewhere on Saturday

1132
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:02,320
Speaker 1: or Sunday he had the lead or was close to

1133
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:06,200
Speaker 1: the lead to win again. You know. So that's a

1134
01:09:06,320 --> 01:09:10,479
Speaker 1: record that's to me that separates him a little bit

1135
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:16,200
Speaker 1: from Tiger. Tiger very very impressive, great player, had an

1136
01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:21,360
Speaker 1: unbelievable dominating career, just like Jack, but still not fifty

1137
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:26,240
Speaker 1: three times finishing third, second, or first and major championships.

1138
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:30,320
Speaker 1: And he did it without trying to catch a guy

1139
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:33,280
Speaker 1: named Jack Nicholas. You know, there's something to be said

1140
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:37,639
Speaker 1: about that. Tiger has always had somebody or something to catch.

1141
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:40,800
Speaker 1: Jack did it catching trying to catch any That was

1142
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 1: just self starting. Yeah, well that was That's that's what

1143
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:49,320
Speaker 1: his mojo was. That's what his motivation was. You know

1144
01:09:49,400 --> 01:09:54,759
Speaker 1: how many major championships he prepared himself for major championship golf.

1145
01:09:56,720 --> 01:10:00,680
Speaker 1: The tour events were just preparation, that's all it was,

1146
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:04,559
Speaker 1: you know. And he put the time into it too,

1147
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 1: you know, hard worker, very very uh prepared when he

1148
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:14,519
Speaker 1: came to play. Yeah, well you're a gem, Tom, Thank

1149
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:18,720
Speaker 1: you so much. I hope we can cross pass soon. UM.

1150
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:21,400
Speaker 1: I don't know when or where that could ever be.

1151
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:25,719
Speaker 1: But but I started my own production company. I I'm

1152
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:29,760
Speaker 1: still telling stories about architecture and travel and UH. And

1153
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:32,320
Speaker 1: this podcast is just good stories about the game of

1154
01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:35,160
Speaker 1: golf and UH and you know, I did Bill and

1155
01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:38,600
Speaker 1: Ben building uh Shan Hills and what that meant to

1156
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:41,479
Speaker 1: be to the world of golf. I did the building

1157
01:10:41,479 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 1: abandoned Dunes with all the voices that that were a

1158
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:47,479
Speaker 1: part of that, including David Kidd and Mike Kaiser. So

1159
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:51,599
Speaker 1: I'm really trying to pick off these these meaningful moments

1160
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:53,800
Speaker 1: in history and put them down from an with an

1161
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:57,000
Speaker 1: audio experience. So I I'll ping, I'll ping you and

1162
01:10:57,080 --> 01:10:59,240
Speaker 1: Lori back in the near future, and I look forward

1163
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:02,080
Speaker 1: to catching up soon. Matt, thank you so kind for

1164
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:07,040
Speaker 1: your support, your your good words about some of the

1165
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:11,519
Speaker 1: things I've done. I appreciate that. You know, Uh, I

1166
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:14,120
Speaker 1: didn't do it all myself. You're you know, no one

1167
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:17,320
Speaker 1: has all the answers. I had good people working for me,

1168
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:21,439
Speaker 1: I I. We had great contractors, but most importantly we

1169
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:25,720
Speaker 1: had tremendous pieces of property. And like I said, not

1170
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:27,679
Speaker 1: to be redone. You're only as good as your piece

1171
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:32,080
Speaker 1: of property. That for students is one of those special,

1172
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:35,639
Speaker 1: unique pieces of property. Anyone could have done a good

1173
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:40,360
Speaker 1: golf course there. Believe well, you did it. I'm a

1174
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:43,280
Speaker 1: big fan of that course, but many others and uh

1175
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:45,439
Speaker 1: and always will be so thanks keep up all the

1176
01:11:45,479 --> 01:11:48,400
Speaker 1: great work and uh, stay safe out there, Tom. And

1177
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:51,360
Speaker 1: thanks thank Lori again for for helping set this up.

1178
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:53,840
Speaker 1: And I'll be back with you soon. I'm sure you're

1179
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:57,160
Speaker 1: You're great for the game, Matt. We we appreciate you.

1180
01:11:57,280 --> 01:12:02,360
Speaker 1: Loved listening and watching your videos. One last question I forgot.

1181
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:05,920
Speaker 1: We call this podcast the fire Pit because it's the

1182
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:08,679
Speaker 1: kind of stories you would tell or listen to around

1183
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:11,960
Speaker 1: a fire pit. Do you have a favorite fire pit? Well,

1184
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:16,880
Speaker 1: anywhere outside away from civilization, you know, out you know,

1185
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 1: maybe even close to a tent or a motor home.

1186
01:12:20,439 --> 01:12:24,479
Speaker 1: You know, just someplace where no one else is just

1187
01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:29,840
Speaker 1: watching the stars, you know. Uh, sunsets, those kind of things.

1188
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:34,040
Speaker 1: Sunsets mean a lot to me. Sons, a good sunset,

1189
01:12:34,040 --> 01:12:39,679
Speaker 1: it's kind of your fire pit. Yep, that's it. Thank

1190
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:43,120
Speaker 1: you so much, Mr Wiit couple talk soon, alright, man,

1191
01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 1: have a great one. Good luck to you, Okay, take care.

1192
01:12:50,240 --> 01:12:53,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna miss Tom Wiskoff and being able to have

1193
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:56,599
Speaker 1: those types of conversations and listening in on that level

1194
01:12:56,640 --> 01:13:00,680
Speaker 1: of reflection. For some final thoughts, go back to our

1195
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:04,880
Speaker 1: panel of perspectives. We start with Dave Stockton. It was

1196
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:08,479
Speaker 1: just a special part for me to be a friend

1197
01:13:08,479 --> 01:13:12,240
Speaker 1: of Thoma's. And you know, we we we never we

1198
01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:14,760
Speaker 1: didn't live near each other's, we never got together that much,

1199
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:16,799
Speaker 1: but we always had a good time when we played.

1200
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:19,960
Speaker 1: And uh, I was always watching him, just because I

1201
01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:22,559
Speaker 1: thought that'd be illegal to be able to hit the

1202
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:26,160
Speaker 1: golf ball that good. And it did puzzle me that

1203
01:13:26,200 --> 01:13:29,000
Speaker 1: he never, you know, and that puzzled me that he

1204
01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:31,519
Speaker 1: couldn't figure out the putting. And that day with he

1205
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:34,479
Speaker 1: and Johnny Miller there in Minnesota, that meant so much

1206
01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:38,000
Speaker 1: to me, just to see his face slide up punt

1207
01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:42,400
Speaker 1: after putt after putt was going in. And uh, it

1208
01:13:42,479 --> 01:13:45,720
Speaker 1: was a special time. Michael Bamber he was one of

1209
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:47,639
Speaker 1: my go to you guys if there was some funky,

1210
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:50,640
Speaker 1: weird thing going on in golf, you know. Uh, and

1211
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:55,120
Speaker 1: I wanted a you know, a real golfers uh understanding

1212
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:57,880
Speaker 1: of it. I called up Tom Tom wise goff and

1213
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:01,200
Speaker 1: on the record, off the record, in between uh, whether

1214
01:14:01,240 --> 01:14:05,559
Speaker 1: it was Dustin Johnson, uh, two thousand and sixteen at

1215
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:08,680
Speaker 1: at Oakmont, and uh, you know, I remember why it's

1216
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:11,400
Speaker 1: very clearly saying here it is from the player's perspective.

1217
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:13,840
Speaker 1: Here it is in the U s J's perspective. You know,

1218
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:16,479
Speaker 1: they're both right, but I'm going with Dustin Johnson, you know,

1219
01:14:16,479 --> 01:14:18,840
Speaker 1: because it was player to player at the end of

1220
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 1: the day. UH for him always. UM. But I feel

1221
01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:25,760
Speaker 1: the exact same way. I feel privileged to have about

1222
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:28,000
Speaker 1: to know him. I think I first interviewed him, you know,

1223
01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:32,519
Speaker 1: I saw him really in his prime. I don't think

1224
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:36,720
Speaker 1: I ever really interviewed hiuntil maybe the early nineties, but

1225
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:38,680
Speaker 1: he was definitely one of my go to guys and

1226
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:42,559
Speaker 1: uh um and yeah, he will be greatly missed, and

1227
01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:45,559
Speaker 1: as we would say of of not too many people,

1228
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:49,120
Speaker 1: there will never be another like uh to wear all

1229
01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:52,160
Speaker 1: these different hats and wear him so well, there won't

1230
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:55,680
Speaker 1: be another time. My scoff, Ben Crenshaw, I wonder do

1231
01:14:55,760 --> 01:14:59,880
Speaker 1: you think he leaves this world feeling appreciated and respected

1232
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:03,880
Speaker 1: where where he sits in the game, and feel like

1233
01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:07,680
Speaker 1: his contributions are appreciated the way they should be. I

1234
01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:11,920
Speaker 1: know that I know that people have have remembrances of him,

1235
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:20,880
Speaker 1: of an outstanding player, very thoughtful player. Uh. I think

1236
01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:26,519
Speaker 1: that I know that it bothered him when people say

1237
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:30,600
Speaker 1: he was an underachiever, because he was so good. But

1238
01:15:30,680 --> 01:15:33,840
Speaker 1: he had a wonderful career, not only in golf but

1239
01:15:33,960 --> 01:15:38,479
Speaker 1: adding something to golfers lives that people enjoy playing his

1240
01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:43,400
Speaker 1: golf courses and and his philosophies and insights. And I

1241
01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:47,800
Speaker 1: think of one word about when I think of Tom Wiskoff,

1242
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:54,160
Speaker 1: and it's majestic. What a swing. Hopefully, Matt, you know

1243
01:15:54,240 --> 01:15:57,120
Speaker 1: this little piece, along with other pieces that you're doing

1244
01:15:57,560 --> 01:16:01,160
Speaker 1: about time, will give people, uh an indication and an

1245
01:16:01,160 --> 01:16:04,759
Speaker 1: insight about what we saw was a very special friend

1246
01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:09,840
Speaker 1: and a great great man. And finally, Tom was an

1247
01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:12,800
Speaker 1: old world guy, uh in the sense he was kind

1248
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:17,479
Speaker 1: of this old school man's man kind of guy. Uh.

1249
01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:21,200
Speaker 1: He's just a real high testostrom guys sort of. He

1250
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:25,360
Speaker 1: loved he loved these you know, we loved hunting, fishing,

1251
01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:30,800
Speaker 1: loved being outdoors. He loved being in bars talking with

1252
01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:33,920
Speaker 1: with other guys who had big four ms like he did.

1253
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:38,840
Speaker 1: And uh, he he just had this certain sensibility that

1254
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:41,320
Speaker 1: we don't see much of. He came out of a

1255
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 1: middle class uh family. You know, his dad was a

1256
01:16:46,400 --> 01:16:52,360
Speaker 1: career like a railroad worker, and his dad had personal problems.

1257
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:55,080
Speaker 1: It was in a way like you think that a

1258
01:16:55,120 --> 01:16:58,320
Speaker 1: guy like Wiscott might have been some golden boy, you know,

1259
01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:02,000
Speaker 1: things given to him, and but it wasn't quite like that.

1260
01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:04,880
Speaker 1: He was really he was self made in a lot

1261
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:10,040
Speaker 1: of ways. And uh, you know what he became it

1262
01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:13,640
Speaker 1: it came through his own sweat and toil, you know.

1263
01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:17,720
Speaker 1: So I always think I always think of Tom Wisecoff,

1264
01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:22,920
Speaker 1: U just finally and almost a hollowed ways, a really

1265
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:26,439
Speaker 1: really special guy. He The last part of that old

1266
01:17:26,479 --> 01:17:28,599
Speaker 1: world thing was I never knew he got sick again.

1267
01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:31,160
Speaker 1: I didn't know that he had relapsed and that this

1268
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:36,040
Speaker 1: the pancreatic could huld come back as it so often did.

1269
01:17:36,200 --> 01:17:38,000
Speaker 1: He thought he was good, but he got sick again

1270
01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:41,280
Speaker 1: back in April. And it wasn't like this was front

1271
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:44,480
Speaker 1: page news. You know why because I don't think Wiscoff

1272
01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:47,360
Speaker 1: wanted it to be front page news. He was a stoic,

1273
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:53,200
Speaker 1: old time tough guy, you know. And uh. One one

1274
01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:56,280
Speaker 1: final take that he gave me was like he remember

1275
01:17:56,360 --> 01:17:59,599
Speaker 1: him saying he dreaded the thought of an open casket funeral.

1276
01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:03,120
Speaker 1: He thought that they were morbid and terrible. And he said, man,

1277
01:18:03,160 --> 01:18:06,320
Speaker 1: when when I'm gone, don't please close the casket. Don't

1278
01:18:06,360 --> 01:18:09,600
Speaker 1: look at me that way, So uh, just one of

1279
01:18:09,640 --> 01:18:14,000
Speaker 1: those funny things you remember about people. We lost a

1280
01:18:14,080 --> 01:18:18,280
Speaker 1: great golfer, we got lost a great commentator, we lost

1281
01:18:18,280 --> 01:18:22,000
Speaker 1: a great architect, and we lost a great person. Yeah,

1282
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:25,320
Speaker 1: sure did, Maddie. Thanks for reaching out to me. I mean,

1283
01:18:25,360 --> 01:18:29,000
Speaker 1: I've I've enjoyed this uh trip to the memory bank

1284
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:48,000
Speaker 1: about him, and it's good to see you too. Got

1285
01:18:48,040 --> 01:18:55,640
Speaker 1: another log on the fire we here is give the

1286
01:18:55,720 --> 01:18:56,000
Speaker 1: Time