WEBVTT - Nerdificent Best of 2019 Part 2 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:11.880 Hey, Hey, Hey, how's it going. I haven't seen you 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:15.360 all since the last decade. I know that's a bad joke, 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:18.480 but I'm gonna say it anyway. It is January seven, 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:22.360 and it's time for another bit of the best of Nerdificent. 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:25.520 We'll be back next week, but for right now, why 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:27.760 don't you listen to these hits? Yeah, so we are 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:30.120 talking about the Bechdel Test. Why why did y all 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:35.440 decide that you wanted to make a podcast about this? Caitlin? Well, 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:40.240 I suppose it was my idea Bragg, But basically, I 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:43.360 am a huge film buff, to the extent that I 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:48.440 stupidly got two different degrees in film and spent you know, 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:52.080 tens of thousands of dollars on an education and film 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:56.279 and uh yeah, I mean movies. Movies are life for me. Um, 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:03.320 honestly crazy, I mean brave, really really yeah. Everyone started 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:07.160 hashtaging that Caitlin brave. Um. So I love movies and 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:10.360 I wanted to talk about them and kind of reconcile 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:13.080 the fact that a lot of my favorite movies treat 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:16.959 women horribly, or at least the movies that I grew 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:20.640 up with and just had become accustomed to watch some 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:22.920 of those that you discovered like, oh crap, I love 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:28.560 me awful, but I didn't didn't have the representation of 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:33.440 women yet, right, Um, the Big three were like for me, 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:37.080 it was like the like trilogies of Back to the Future, 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:39.880 Indiana Jones, and Star Wars like those were like the 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:45.200 crux of my childhood movie development. Uh. And then just 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:52.080 any I mean most movies since and before those also 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.080 not great to women. So I just I wanted to 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:59.480 kind of examine these movies more closely, just any movie 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:03.720 that has had like a big cultural impact and uh, 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:06.080 you know, take a look at them and figure out, 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:11.640 you know, maybe how much media is responsible for the 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:15.280 patriarchy still being a thing. Um. And so yeah, we 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:19.120 just I asked Jamie if she wanted to collaborate with 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:22.600 me on this idea, and she was very down. And 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:25.040 two and a half years later, here we are, Oh 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:28.960 my gosh, it sounds about the same as krilling it 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:31.160 and eventually nerdifficent. I was like, hey, you want to 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:35.120 do this. I was like, yeah, yeah, good idea. And 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:38.400 I had seen like I have not seen a lot 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:41.320 of well now I have when the podcast started, I 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:44.280 had not seen like most of I had also technically 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:50.120 onto film school, but technically I went, but I've majored 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:54.240 in radio, so I had also had to use medium 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:05.760 radio worth it thousands in debt. Uh but yeah, and 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:08.880 I hadn't seen most of the movies that we covered, 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:12.680 and so it was like an uh in real time education. 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:14.560 But I think it helps to get those two different 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:18.240 perspectives from like me, who like is apologetic to a 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:21.040 lot of these movies, and then you're like, oh, I'm 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:23.160 just seeing them for the first time and wow, they're 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:26.320 not good. Yeah that makes sense, Yeah, because you're watching 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:29.320 them with like an air of nostalgia too. Yeah. So 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:33.480 for people that don't know what is the Bechtel test, Oh, 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:37.000 this is our favorite thing to explain to the Bechtel test. 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:39.400 We can get into the history of it, but just 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:42.640 like the version and the way that we use it, 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:45.600 because there's a few different like permutations of it. But 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:49.120 it's a test that is applied to media, usually movies 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:53.040 and TV, in which a movie that passes the Becktel 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:57.000 test has a scene with two female identifying characters who 0:03:57.040 --> 0:03:59.760 have names, who talk to each other about something other 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:03.320 than a man for at least two lines of dialogue. 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:06.920 That's our d's our version. There's a bunch of different versions. 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:09.200 They're simpler ones, there's more demanding ones, but that's the 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:12.760 one we use, Okay. Yeah, And it originally started from 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:16.680 Alison Bechdel, right, who wrote in a comic strip that 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:19.480 was Dikes to Watch out for that appeared in nine 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:22.760 and we'll have a link to the actual comics so 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:25.279 y'all can see it. But it was essentially two women 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:28.160 that were trying to go see a movie and had 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:29.599 that same thing where they were saying, I only go 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:32.160 to see a movie if it satisfies three basic requirements, 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:33.800 when it has to have at least two women in 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:37.200 it who talked to each other and about something other 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:39.440 than a man. And then it ends with saying, the 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:43.080 last movie I saw was Alien. Yes, that was like that, 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:48.000 which is funny because that movie barely passes because they're 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:53.119 talking about the alien protocol on the ship or Gina 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:57.400 Monster as very like major sci fi movie as a 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:02.520 vaginal monster because Agina's are scared must but against even 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:05.920 more insulting when you see, like how often people pluck 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:09.080 from black Twitter memes and pluck from the things that 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:11.960 we are saying and use it in their bs and 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:14.720 then uh, and then still have the goal to not 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:18.160 want to hire black people for some BS bar that 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:21.480 we can't reach because even then, ivye have a hard 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.080 time letting in black people. And I and when I 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:27.039 say black people mean black people, Africans get in higher 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:29.479 on average, just so they can say they're letting in 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:31.880 black people, but they're letting in Africans. And there goes 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:35.680 a whole another baggage that I can but anyway to 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:39.120 reel it all in that is that I don't barely 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:42.800 scratch the surface of the baggage. But that's what is 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:47.760 up against all of people of color and women, and 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:50.680 that type of stuff isn't carried. And that's generally what 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.200 people talk about, just in case someone needs to hear this, 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:56.000 When they mean privilege, that doesn't mean that you didn't 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:57.600 have a hard life. That doesn't mean that you may 0:05:57.640 --> 0:05:59.679 not have been poor. But if you were poorn white, 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:01.800 you still have a better chance of getting it Harvard 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.719 than a poor and black person. It's just simple facts, 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:08.960 and there's data to back that up. Affirmative action help 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:12.160 no one but white women, straight up. And it's and 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:15.960 it's and that's just why let's just stick to the back. 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:19.960 But I would say to go to end that point 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:22.359 is essentially that is what studios are more willing to 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:24.160 take a risk on, their less willing to take a 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:27.240 risk on filmmakers color of color, and they're less willing 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:30.200 to take a risk on stories from people of color. 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:34.000 And that has been shown throughout these decades and even now, 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:35.800 which is a conversation that we've had in the last 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.760 couple of podcasts, we're still dealing with that. I wanted 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:43.120 to ask y'all about some of the films that were 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:48.440 surprising that didn't pass the Bechdel test. Okay, let me 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:52.120 pull up our list. There's I'm never surprised when a 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:54.600 movie does not pass the Bechdel times. I mean sometimes 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:58.240 they like seem to be marketed specifically for women, right, 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:00.479 and there're even some of those don't pass sit. I 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:02.800 think the most famous example of that that we get. 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:04.400 We haven't covered it on the show, but it comes 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:05.920 up all the time is I think it's like a 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:10.720 nine late nineteen thirties movie called The Women and all 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:13.440 female casts. It's like ten women you do not like 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:15.080 your famously, and the way it was market is like 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:16.720 it was like you don't see a man on screen 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:19.160 the whole time, and that is true. It does not 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:22.080 pass the back because they're only talking to talk to 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:24.600 each other. But it's always about it's always about a gotten, 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:28.200 It's always about a man named Steve. They're talking about 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:31.880 Steve the whole movie. It's you know who wrote that? 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:38.360 Let the women? Okay? Written by? Oh, it was written 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.800 by It was written by two women. So really uh 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:47.160 really ah job, no no way to no way around it. No, 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:51.480 the thing is for me. I tend to not remember 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:55.160 unless it's like it very handily passes, or it is 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:58.200 very clear that the movie would not pass because it 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:02.040 only has one woman in the entire movie See Raiders 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:05.239 in the Lost Arc, see you Know a New Hope, 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:08.800 that kind of thing. Um. I tend not to really 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:11.200 remember if the movie passes the Bechtel test or not, 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:15.680 just because it's a metric that is useful metric first 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:18.600 starting off point to talk about representation of women in movies. 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:22.400 But that's pretty much all we use it for, is 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:26.880 just like okay, this initiates a larger conversation that we 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:29.280 can talk about a wholesoe of other things. So whether 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:32.120 or not a movie passes Jamie, as you said, like 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:38.720 like The Room, that famously horrible, horrible movie pas Becktel tests, 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.120 but like it's still such a piece of and you 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:43.760 know it's fun to watch, but you know, it doesn't 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:45.760 mean anything that that movie passes. And then I think, 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:49.840 like we determine chart here, our our friends are very 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:53.720 studious and update their chart. I would say one that 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:56.520 I found surprising was You've Got Mail because it's a 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:59.559 rom com. Yeah. I didn't think like movies that are 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:03.360 like may right, four Women in theory, and that was 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:06.880 came out like what two decades ago, So yeah, you 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:10.199 think they talked about you know, well, I think, well, no, 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:12.920 I think I think it's probably in her book in 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:15.400 the scenes in the bookstore, you know, because she's talking 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:17.520 about her mom and she's talking about you know what 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:19.600 I mean, Like, I think that's probably how it passed. It. 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:22.400 The whole order of the Rings trilogy does not pass 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.200 the Bechtel test, not one of it. It's a ten 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:29.360 hour it doesn't pass. It's crazy. It has every opportunity 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:31.760 and it doesn't. Uh. And then another one we did 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:35.080 recently that I thought, I guess sort of for the 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:38.200 same reason you were saying, Danny about You've Got Mail? 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:42.800 Is five d days of Summer doesn't pass the Bechtel test? Um? Wait, 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:45.839 were you saying that it does pass? It does pass? Yeah, 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:47.880 it does pass. That's why I'm saying I find that 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.480 surprising because it's a rom com. You think, like, you know, 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:54.680 because she has that she was yeah, okay, yeah, I 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:57.320 mean rom coms often don't pass. I think we did. 0:09:57.440 --> 0:09:59.400 We did an episode about we haven't done, um, you've 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:01.520 got mail yet? But would you do? When Harry met 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:05.120 Sally and sleepless in Seattle, And there are most of those, 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:08.520 there might be like a very quick conversation that just 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:12.559 happens to not be about men. But often in rom coms, 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:15.199 I mean, there's it's it's it's interesting because like, there 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:18.880 are certain genres that almost never pass, like action movies 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:21.720 like often do not pass because there's usually one woman 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:24.120 and she's the love interest. She gets captured, she has 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:26.120 to be saved, like she's everyone's like, oh my god, 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:30.760 she can kick. I mean even if she's allowed to fight. 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:34.560 Usually women aren't allowed to fight. Usually they just or 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:37.079 if you're in Raiders of the Locks arc, your only 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:39.800 weapon can be like a domestic item, like a frying 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:42.240 pan or in Halloween, it's like all domestic items that 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:47.199 that are weapons and oh boy, another one I like this. 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:50.280 This is like a more specific version of the behind 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:54.360 the camera stuff is the Riese Davies test by Katerie Davies. 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:59.880 A movie passes if every department has two or more women, uh, 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:03.680 which is not which which is something that doesn't happen 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.560 very much. Only about a third of movies pass this 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:11.240 test because there is such a disproportionate representation behind the 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:13.440 camera as well, which is something that I want to 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:15.920 be better on our show about like paying attention to 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:22.440 of Like it's so rare to see female composers, female editors, photographers, um, 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:26.359 where it's usually where I we're talking about directors, writers 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:29.679 and talent. But there's like, there's so many things that 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:33.400 like when a movie is edited by a woman, they're 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:36.360 probably going to edit out the shot where you know, 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:41.200 probably the male cinematographers a lingering, male gay shot of 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:45.680 a woman in a swimsuit exactly Like yeah, um, there's 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:49.240 another one that is uh, I think lesser known because 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:52.400 it's it's newer, but it's called the Kent Test. It's 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:57.439 from um Clarkesha Kent, and it's there are many different 0:11:57.440 --> 0:11:59.199 components to it, so I'll just named kind of the 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:02.640 main one. But it determines whether a film or other 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:06.160 piece of media has provided the audience with adequate representation 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.560 of women or feans of color. And then it has 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:13.880 all these different like criteria by which you can like basically, 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:15.599 it's like, I think twelve different things, and if it 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:18.319 scores higher than like a six or an eight or 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:20.760 some number, then it's like, oh, it's doing pretty well. 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:23.679 A lot of movies don't fare very well on this test. 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:25.880 I was gonna say, for if he for your episode 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:28.520 of Black Panther, I'm assuming that that passed the Bechdel test, right, 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.200 And I love the fact that Ryan Coogler had Rachel Morrison, 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:35.600 who's his DP and has worked with him on Fruitvale 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:38.480 Station and on Black Panther, So that was that was 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:40.440 a huge thing. That that was pretty cool that he 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.440 had a woman behind the scenes um as one of 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:46.600 the head people of his crew. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:48.640 then I was pointing, I was pointing this out to 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:51.640 you the other day that George Miller, who made Mad Max, 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:55.959 his wife edited it and he there's this quote where 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:57.440 his wife was like, why do you want me to 0:12:57.600 --> 0:12:59.280 edit this movie? Was like, because if I have a 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.640 man at did it's gonna look like every other action movie. 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:06.320 And that that's true. Like one of the benefits you 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:10.840 get from having an underrepresented piece to your film is 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:14.040 you're getting a different perspective. I mean, in a good 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:17.080 writer's room, that's why you want different perspective. I was 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.560 and probably one of the most diverse writing room a 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:22.920 few weeks ago. And you know we had you know 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:26.440 me uh, you know, the show runner was Indian. You 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:31.040 had uh, we had like two women to two men 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:34.720 who were writing. Uh, and and it was just interesting 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:40.040 to like, you know, have you just hear different things 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:42.600 to the way people say, like, you know, it's it's all. 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:47.400 It's very interesting too to have just the one line 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:51.000 that I always liked to hear in those situations. Uh. 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:54.440 You know when someone speak up and goes, oh, a 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:57.319 woman wouldn't say that, you know, like his because because 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:00.640 I just even from my perspective, whenever you see like 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:03.280 a black person written by a white person, you're like, 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.920 no black person in their life would ever say that 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:12.920 today we are covering teen Titans. Actually you are an 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:18.280 expert in these in these kiddos. They're my favorite super team. 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.000 When Danny asked me if this was a subject that 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:23.920 I knew anything about or liked, I was super thrilled, 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:27.000 and I was like, how nerdy can I get? Because 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:29.920 they're the best. They were the top selling DC title 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:34.920 for twelve years. What years were those? Uh? Eighty two? 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:37.880 Nine two? It was between them and then the Uncanny 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:41.040 X Men or the top two best selling comics. That's 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.840 the New Teen Titans, the Wolfman Perez era that affected 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:47.200 and inspired the TV shows that I think we're gonna 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:49.440 be talking a lot about today. Yeah, but yeah, they're 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:53.760 very important, and they're actually in terms of profitability, DC's 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.880 most profitable franchise really, So we like to think about 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:01.840 the Justice League, but to the Justice League have comics, Uh, 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:05.400 Teen Titans have comics as well. There's also Titans Young Justice. 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:08.440 All fall under that same banner. It's all the same 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:11.440 creative teams and all the same characters. So they have 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:14.960 more titles consistently that sell better than Justice League, although 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.800 Justice League has more issues. So if you did I 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:21.080 can't do math, and I certainly can't do math for inflation. 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:24.800 Justice League probably wins in the comics. However, we've only 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:28.160 had one Justice League movie and it's arguably a whiff. 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:32.840 It's controversial at best. We've had one animated television show 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.880 that's over a decade old. Teen Titans had the original 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:40.640 animated television show Teen Titans Go, which is DC Warner 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:44.440 Animations most successful DC property show that also spun out 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:47.280 on an animal there. Even though I know you're on 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:51.160 this okay trend because this is gonna be my one 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:53.960 like rant and I'm gonna try and keep it at that. 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:56.680 But the reason I stopped you at Teen Titans Go 0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.440 is a lot of people grew up on the Teen 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.280 Titans before that, me included, and loved it. And I 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.160 feel like Teen Titans Go got so much hate online 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:07.920 from people out of the age range, like so many 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:09.880 people who grew up on the first team titles like 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:11.720 not my teen Ties, not my teen Titans. And I 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:15.800 get that you want something for you, but just go 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:18.280 ahead and repeat what you just said about Teen Titans Go. 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:23.240 That is the most successful animated show and it's fun 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:25.760 out its own animated movie. So many people try and 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:28.600 push this idea online that they keep pushing this bad 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:31.760 teen Titans go. But if it's it's most profitable, it 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:33.840 seems like it's not as bad as we want to 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:36.800 believe it is. I get you want the serious, you know, 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:40.600 dark teen titans uh that we have, but that time's over. 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:43.720 We had it and we enjoyed it. Now the kids 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:46.360 that the demo that is watching that time slot is 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:50.960 getting something they enjoyed, so layoff. Also what's funny is like, 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:53.520 as much as people hate it that there were some 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.400 people online who U saw I was like, yeah, that's good. 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:01.120 That was probably me. I love it, but I'm I'm 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:02.960 not trying to be a trolled. I just like whenever 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:05.480 people people are going to get upset, whenever people take 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.760 risks and do like a different take. But I understand 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:11.359 I understand why that doesn't always work to me. I 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:14.439 just like when we're super I like seeing the bizarro world. 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:16.800 I like the opposite, Like I don't always want the 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:18.840 same thing. I like seeing like what if this person 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:20.520 did go off the deep end? And he was like, yes, 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:22.720 go off the deep end. But honestly, that's the true 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:24.960 heart of comics because that's how you get things like 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:28.119 Red Sun, and you get things like you know, old 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:32.679 Man logan like, that's the there. Someone pointed this out 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:34.760 to me a while ago, when I really were it 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:38.160 was reading capes and they're saying they stopped reading capes 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:41.320 because they got too obsessed with cannon and we stopped 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:44.879 doing these one off fun things like All Star Superman 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:48.720 and Superman. Is fun. I mean it's fun in the 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:51.280 sense All Star Superman made me like Superman because I 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:57.680 would Superman and then when I saw it, yeah, yeah, down, 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:01.560 Wait how did you not like Superman? He was doing perfect? 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:05.919 But you like Goku? He's dumb. Goku's dumb, you know 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:08.320 what I'm saying. His flaw is that he has this 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:11.240 childishness about him and that he does put people in 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:14.680 danger because he wants to challenge himself. Superman is just perfect. 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:18.640 He's smart, he's handsome, he is the top of his job, 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:22.120 he gets the girl. He can't do anything wrong. He's 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:25.520 not dumb, you know. Like so he is too perfect. 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:28.199 But I could see where you would think, oh with Goku. 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:31.040 But Goku does have so many flaws that I'm constantly 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:35.840 debating against online. Also, we're not here to talk about Superman, 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:38.639 but when you were, Um, I'm originally from Canada, so 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:41.959 when you're not American, Yeah, Superman is sort of held up. 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:43.960 It's Superman and Captain America held up as like these 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:48.080 bastions of American identity. So for me growing up, I 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:51.640 was like, you can't like Superman. I'm not American, which 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:55.119 is funny because he's like an immigrant. But yeah, but 0:18:55.800 --> 0:18:58.880 I hadn't thought about that as a a I mean, 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:00.920 I married a white guy from a farm in Kansas, 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:04.399 so clearly I've come around. But I remember when I 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:06.679 was in the university. I went to the University of Ottawa, 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:09.399 which is Canada's capital city. UM had a really good friend. 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:12.960 He's actually on that YouTube show Wayne now is one 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:15.040 of the twins. I haven't seen it. That's just the 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:17.200 thing that people might know. He had a Superman belt buckle, 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:18.920 and I was like, you're Canadian, you cannot wear that. 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:22.359 We were like getting vites about that. But Superman is 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:25.720 a difficult character for people to come around on, which 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.120 is why I think Teen Titans, like I was saying, 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:32.840 was so successful, because they are deeply flawed. Um, Robin 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:36.400 is the best among them, and Dick Grayson as the best. 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:38.760 Robin is a deeply flawed leader, but he grows up 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:41.679 to lead the Justice League. So I know you have 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:44.080 a moment that you talked about on the Daily Zeite guys, 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:47.520 which is really funny. It's so funny because like it 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:50.560 was a moment I totally forgot about but then remembered 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:52.840 when I saw it, and it was it was actually 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:55.240 a pretty cool episode where like, you know, it kind 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.639 of uh try to deal with the racism because it 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:03.000 was talking about racism and Starfire's family and he was like, oh, 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:05.560 I definitely know about that. And he was like, oh, 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:09.359 you you know about being judged because of the color 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:12.960 of your skin or because of how you look, and 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:17.879 he was like, yeah, I'm a robot. It's so great 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:23.120 because because it definitely gets so close and I could 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:26.320 definitely be just see the network notek of being like 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:28.280 now I pull that back, just say it's because he's 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:31.720 a robot. Can I ask you, um, what is potentially 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:35.200 an ignorant white person question that you're under no real 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:38.120 otis to answer, But I'd like to ask you, as 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:40.560 an African American person, how do you feel about booya 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:45.800 as a catchphrase? Oh? You know, I didn't care. It 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:49.159 seemed like yeah, yeah, because it seemed like one of 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:51.760 those things like he's saying something cool, but we don't 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:55.320 want to make anything like you know, seems like it's 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:58.159 because he's black, you know, because when he said it 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:01.679 in Justice League, like I was really excited, and then 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:04.080 I saw a bunch of people who I respect and 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:06.040 who I look to for guidance because I was not 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:08.400 a person of color. I don't know, Um, I got 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:10.879 really mad about it, and I was like, oh, I 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:12.840 just thought it was really cool that he said the 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:16.320 cotch for you. Yeah, I think, yeah, I think some 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:19.080 you know, not a diss on them, but some people 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:24.000 are just like hyper sensitive of what one way would 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:26.560 be taken. But I feel like the only way to 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:29.080 have taken that was that it was a call back 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:32.320 to something he always said in Teen Titans, just like 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:35.040 an X Men when he says I'm the Juggernaut bitch, 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:39.800 you know, like it's like I don't to like across 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:43.600 the world, yeah, like to like, you know, take that 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:47.040 in any other way. I you know, I think there's 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:50.520 more to unpass, you know. It's just I don't know, 0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:53.440 I don't agree. I don't even agree that you could 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:56.160 really take issue. I don't want to control how anybody 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:58.399 feels about anything. But there I feel like there's a 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:01.560 level too. Now there's there's this social currency to find 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:05.280 the things wrong that are not woke, and it leads 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:08.520 to people just jumping to stuff when they might have like, 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:10.439 even if they didn't like it, be like all right, 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:12.479 that's kind of whack and move on. But now that 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:16.159