WEBVTT - In Defense of Bathhouses with Dan Savage 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:04.320 Hi, Catherine, how are you doing. I'm great, You're back home. 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.840 What's new in your world? We taped our special in Nashville. Well, 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:09.840 I say our special because Joe directed it for me, 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:14.000 which was such a delight. It was so nice to 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:16.840 have a man not only be everything he is in 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:18.880 my life, but to be able to go into something 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:22.319 creative like shooting my next stand up special and not 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:24.240 have to deal with any of the minutia that I 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:27.880 am not interested in, which is camera angles, jib shots, 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:30.240 gimbal shots. They are all sorts of cameras that I've 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:31.840 never fucking heard of, and I don't want to know 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:36.720 anything more about them. Curtains and drapery and lighting and 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.639 la la la la. Joe did everything for me. He 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:43.520 arranged everything. He just asked me to pick out certain 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.239 colors and this and that, and then went in and 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:48.680 got on stage at like nine in the morning at 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.760 the theater with my producers Michelle and Shannon, who are 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:55.480 an incredible producing team, and I he goes, come in 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:57.400 at four thirty, honey, do whatever you need to do 0:00:57.440 --> 0:00:58.760 to get in the zone and just come in and 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:00.880 four thirty and I was the most most experience I've 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:04.280 ever had, And I am so grateful to have not 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:06.760 only a partner, but somebody who has in this world 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:11.200 that I operate in shorthand Yeah, and he's cool and 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:13.880 it has style, like you know, so I don't have 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:17.039 to think about any of that. And I'm just it 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:19.880 was just a delight. So we're home now, we've been 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:23.360 on the road for three weeks and we're home. So 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:26.399 it's time for me to de bloat, because this travel 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:33.240 section really got after me drinking, eating, drinking, eating, traveling constipation. 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:35.840 I'm just like, what is that? Why do you when 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:37.759 you travel you don't go to the bathroom. I don't 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:40.200 like that at all. And then I tried this new product, 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:42.679 this green drink, which I was like, great because it 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:44.760 makes you go to the bathroom a lot, but then 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:47.360 you're constipated for two days after so I think it 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:49.360 cleans you out so much that you've got nothing left 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:51.920 to give for two days. And then, uh, so our 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:55.320 plane ride home was just long, long, long, because I 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:58.240 just wanted to detox. You know, I'm feeling already so 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:00.600 much better being home good, and to make your own 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:03.040 choices and like eat what you want to eat that 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:06.240 makes you feel good. My therapist and I even talking 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:10.800 a lot about that, like mindfulness and intuitive eating, eating 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:12.280 what you know in a half an hour is gonna 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:16.799 make your body feel good and just like little swaps, yes, yes, yes, 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:20.160 because it's nice and like eating clean makes you such 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:22.560 a difference in your mental clarity, and like for me, 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.200 that is everything because I hate feeling foggy and on 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:28.560 the road. Inevitably I start to drink, I start to 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:31.600 eat badly. You know, you make poor decisions when you're hungover. 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:33.160 You think you're gonna be able to stick to your 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:35.720 diet even when you drink, but it's not like that. 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:37.320 You wake up, you have a bad night of sleep, 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:40.520 then you need more food for fuel comfort, and then 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:43.080 you go and make bad decisions. And when I eat clean, 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:46.360 I'm just I have higher energy levels. Yeah, absolutely, and 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:49.200 you're just like feel better, like physically, you don't get that, 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:51.240 like you said, tons of bloating. You don't get that 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:54.119 nauseous feeling if you're you know, having a potato chip 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.840 or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, I had a bag of Cheetos 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:00.120 on the road. Was my first bag of Cheetos probably 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:04.120 and like two years and yeah, and I started for 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:07.079 three days, so I'm not eating studios again. It's so disgusting. 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:08.679 I did get to see my nephew though. We picked 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:10.280 him up. He was in Detroit. I had a show 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:13.000 an Ontario Windsor. So we picked him up in Detroit 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:16.000 and drove across the bridge to Canada with him, trying 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:19.120 to deprogram him from his ultra conservative views. Not ultra 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:23.000 but too conservative for my liking. His mother has been 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:25.360 programming him for a long time. Indoctrinating him is how 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:28.040 I like to frame it. Um. She's a Russian nationalist. 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:30.600 So we had to, you know, say, and we did. 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:32.799 All of us had a really good time kind of 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:35.520 debating back and forth to do with him about what 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:38.120 he thinks is the real state of things. Yeah, did 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:41.760 you hear feel some movement on him? Because he's nineteen. 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:45.200 My security guy Buddha was there and he's like, you know, Chelsea, 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:47.080 I remember when I was in nineteen. I believe that 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:50.200 ship too, you know, like he he said things like, oh, 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:52.200 you know, I don't know if I don't believe racism 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:54.040 is as big of a problem as people make it 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:57.040 out to be. And it's likely if you're white, you're 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:00.320 you wouldn't know, how would you know, you're white and 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:04.680 your nineteen and your whole life is set up for success. Yeah. Yeah, 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:07.680 he's in college. He's interning, and I mean thankfully he's 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:09.480 in college because he's going to be around other people 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:12.360 that will hopefully open his eyes and mined up to things. 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:14.480 But he's still upset that he didn't get into, you know, 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:16.960 the college he wanted to get into. And you know, 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:19.120 he thinks that somebody else took his spot that was 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:21.200 maybe less qualified, and we had to explain to him 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:24.000 why that's not even an issue. So shut the suck up. 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.760 If he didn't get a four point oh, then you know, yeah, 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:31.159 it's not someone else's fault. Martha came to my show. Yeah, 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:35.240 Martha Stork came to my show in God, it's so 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:39.640 hard to remember where I just want Yes, yes, she 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:42.360 and her crew came. That was fun, and Joe came 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:44.320 on stage with us. So it was good to see 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:47.960 Martha out and about maybe she's eighty years old, she's 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:54.920 like still very beautiful. Yes, yes, radiant, that's what I said. 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:58.040 I said, luminous. She really Joe's because we looked it 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:00.800 up at lunch after Joe met her outside Joe's like, 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:04.279 how old is that woman? I mean, she seems young 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:06.000 and I was like, yeah, I know, I think she's 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:07.600 probably late seventies. And then I looked it up and 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:10.920 she's eighty. Yeah. People are getting older. People are getting 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:13.520 older and happening. One of my great grandmother said, you 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:18.880 never truly mature until you hit eighty really, so maybe 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.960 she's mature. Now, Well, what about who people who don't 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:25.520 hit eighties? I mean, what's their story. I definitely don't 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:29.320 feel fully mature, and I don't know when that's going 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:31.400 to hit me because I'm sucking forty seven, so I 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:34.120 would like that to hit sooner than later. Although it 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:37.600 doesn't sound super fun to be mature, like that just 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:40.440 sounds I feel like I'm already less fun than I 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:42.800 used to be, Like I want to go to bed 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:45.320 at nine thirty. Last night, Joe and I were up 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:49.120 and and he came home at like six thirty, and 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:51.640 I had already taken my edible with dinner, so I 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:55.000 was fading out around. I was already like tired at 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:57.479 six thirty, but I just came back from the East Coast, 0:05:57.880 --> 0:05:59.840 so I was kind of I used that excuse when 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:01.760 it's suits me that I was on East Coast time 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:05.880 only when it suits me, and I'm like, well, it's 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:07.480 nine thirty and I usually like to go to bed 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:10.720 around ten thirty, you know. But I was fading out 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:11.760 and he's like, do you want to go out and 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:14.640 get a juice somewhere? And I just looked at him like, no, 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:18.200 I don't leave the house. I'm not I don't want 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:20.640 to go anywhere. I fell asleep on the sofa. We 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:23.600 watched one episode of the Staircase to get him up 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:28.080 to speed, the fictionalized the sc scripted version, not fictionalized, 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:30.320 because they actually say because I was toggling back and 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.720 forth between The Staircase the HBO Max One and then 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:37.080 going to Netflix to see like, oh, is that girlfriend 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:41.720 of his the documentarian in the Staircase documentary? But then 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:44.680 I was like, no, idiot, you're high shoot. No documentarian 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:49.159 puts themselves in the documentary, especially when they're sucking the 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:52.479 person that there is starring in the documentary. So that 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:55.320 didn't make any sense. But that show is so disturbing 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:59.040 and that guy is so guilty, it's just so ridiculous. 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.640 And then the sexy and it's like that sex scene 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:05.120 of him eating her ass in the kitchen. I heard 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:07.640 about this, I haven't seen. I've seen the documentary, but 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:10.480 I haven't seen. Well, it's obviously not in the documentary, 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:13.880 but it's because that they took a little license with 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:16.240 that eating her ass in the kitchen, and it's like, 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:18.720 first of all, who's ready to get their asset in 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:22.280 the middle afternoon? I mean, you need to prep for that. 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.600 And then there was another really gross sex scene between 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:29.040 Tony Glenn and Colin Firth. I mean, Colin Firth really 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:32.200 pulls it off because he plays a very He is disturbing, 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:35.960 you know, and creepy and like, I mean he's so good, yeah, 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:38.840 so good. Yeah, Yeah, he's a really yeah, he's a 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:41.480 really good actor. Because even when they've interview him behind 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:44.640 the scenes for the staircase, you're like, oh, you're actually 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:48.160 sexy in real life. You've made yourself kind of unsexy, 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:51.080 not kind of. But what I still don't understand is 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:53.880 if my father, like if my mother was found at 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:56.720 the bottom of the stairwell by my father, even if 0:07:56.720 --> 0:07:58.600 it was my birth father, I would not be on 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:01.600 his side. There is no chance that I would believe 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:04.120 any of that horseship. So the fact that four of 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:07.400 his children are so fucked up that they believe that 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.280 their father is innocent when everything is pointing to the 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:13.480 fact that he is not makes me I rate big 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:15.920 spoiler alert. I don't even know if I should say 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:19.280 this to you, but what happened in his past? Yeah, 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:21.680 I mean, especially after you find that out, it's like, 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.680 wait a minute, well who cares those Either you saw 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:26.640 the show where you didn't and I want to say, 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:28.720 there's a scene in the movie or one of the 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:31.880 things where they say, oh, you there is no such 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:36.280 thing as a serial staircase killer, right, because I'm like, 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:40.160 there is now, this is one, like, it's not to accidents, 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:42.959 it's just not right. And then the other ex wife 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:45.800 from the past, he's all, you know, out of sorts. 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:47.959 I'm just like, she's a hot mess too and has 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:52.280 been brainwashed or brain injured. You know. Yeah, good points. 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:55.040 So anyway, that's been keeping us busy for a while. 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:56.680 But I think we're going to move on to Atlanta 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:59.360 now because I'm behind in Atlanta and I want to 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:02.000 catch up with because I hear that's a really good show. Yeah. 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:04.000 We watched the first couple of seasons of that and 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:06.319 really enjoyed it, but then it's taken kind of so 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:08.280 long for new season's to come out that we've sort 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:10.360 of falling off the wagon with that. We've gotta jump 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:12.760 back on that train. Well before we get to all 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:15.520 the fun stuff, We'll take a quick break. Okay, sounds good, 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:22.040 We'll be right back. Oh. Our guest today is a 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:25.480 an advice columnist himself. You probably know him from his 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:29.120 advocacy work on the It Gets Better campaign. He is 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:31.640 a co writer of the upcoming film called Spoiler Alert, 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:34.679 and he is the host of Savage Love Cast, which 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:42.839 is in its season. Please welcome Dan Savage. Hi, Dan, Hey, Chelsea. Hi, 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:44.520 It's nice to see you again. The last time we 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:46.839 saw each other was at a dinner party that we 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:50.559 were filming for my Netflix show Right, yeah, your house. 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:53.320 I made Jennifer Garner sad. That's what I remember about 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:58.000 that dinner. Jennifer Garner. What was sad? Yeah, because she 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:01.040 was talking about Republicans and ma reaching them, and I 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:02.880 kind of felt that there was no reaching them. And 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:05.079 I think I've been proven right over the last few 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:07.880 years there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I forgot about that conversation. 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:10.200 Of course, we were talking about that then it's funny 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:12.720 that the conversation probably would be exactly the same at 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:16.840 this point. Yeah, we are trapped, I know, terrible times 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:20.320 we live in right, Yes, yes, very terrible. Well, I'm 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:23.520 very excited to have you on today because Dan Savage, 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:26.120 for those of you who are not familiar with him, 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:30.719 has been the premier advice giver on his podcast, which 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:35.160 is called Savage Love Cast, which is in its seventeen season. 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:38.959 So we have somebody who really really has the skill 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:43.040 set to answer questions not unlike yours, truly, I'm sorry, 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:47.280 not like yours truly, definitely unlike yours truly. You know, 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:50.280 when you look at advice in the dictionary, all it 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:53.240 says is opinion about what kutter should be done. The 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:56.120 only qualification you need to give advice is somebody asked 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:59.360 you for it. That's exactly right. And you know what 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:02.240 my just vocation for even doing a podcast like this, Dan, 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:05.520 is that I was giving unsolicited advice to people for 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:08.520 so many years that I figure, why not have people 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:12.280 actually ask me questions so that it is warranted. Solicited 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:15.440 advice is better than unsolicited advice, just like solicited dick 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:18.319 picks are better than unsolicited thank you for saying that, 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:21.400 so I didn't have to now tell me do people 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:23.959 assume now? Do people come up to you whenever they 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:27.480 see you, recognize you, expecting to asking for advice in 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:30.560 real life all the time. Yeah, It's happened in restaurants. 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:33.079 That's happened in airports. It's happened at urinals where the 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:36.720 person standing next to me recognizes me. That's my favorite 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:38.880 place for a fan interaction. Is it right next to 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:43.320 a urinal? Yeah? Yeah, mine too. What's really weird is 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:46.440 because not as many people are familiar with my face, 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:48.960 but people have been listening for a long time, and 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:52.000 so it can startle someone to hear my voice come 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:56.200 out of a person as opposed to their headphones or earbuds, 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:58.440 and so that, you know, I'll be on the phone 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:00.679 with somebody and somebody in line our bucks will turn 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:04.920 around because they're shocked to hear me standing behind them talking. 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:08.319 That's nice to them for people to recognize your voice, 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.480 isn't it. Yeah? Yeah, it is nice. I like it. 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:14.720 It's you know, it's kind of nice to not be 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:17.720 recognized on site all the time because I'm not on 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.640 television a lot, but it's still nice. To know that 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:22.680 there are lots of people out there listening to my podcast, 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:26.079 or after all these years exactly exactly after seventeen years, 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:27.680 I mean, you were like the one of the original 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:30.880 people to have a podcast. Yeah, and I've been doing 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:33.160 the podcast several cost for seventeen years and writing my 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:36.480 dumb sex advice column savage Love that the podcast grew 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:40.320 out of for thirty years. Holy sh it. Really Yeah, 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.520 since I have been at this a while. Oh my god, 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:45.559 So what every week you have to turn something in 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.800 on what day? What day is your delivery date? Friday? 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:51.640 From the craziest part about writing a sex advice column 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:53.559 for so long as I am now giving sex advice 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:55.760 to the children of people I gave sex advice to 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:59.559 thirty years ago before their children were born. So adults 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:02.360 who did and exist whose parents I gave sex advice 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:04.640 to are now writing for sex advice And it kind 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:07.320 of blows my mind. That's funny. So how do you 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:11.280 justify giving advice after all this time? Like, how do 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:15.120 you keep your information flowing so that you know what's 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:17.360 going on in the world, and and and kind of 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.120 like what what information do you consume, whether it be 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:23.559 books or you know media, like, how do you stay 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:26.480 fresh so that you are actually giving the most sound advice? 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:29.920 You know, to zoom out for a second. And this 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:32.120 is me to get a little airy fairy about my 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:35.160 format and genre. The the advice column, the original one 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:39.600 in print was advice columns really pioneered what then blogs 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:43.040 and the Internet made standard for writers in an advice column, 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:44.719 you know, going back a hundred years, going back to 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:47.040 a lander's column. For decades that I grew up reading, 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:51.040 readers wrote back, and the columnists would print letters from 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:54.880 people who disagreed with the columnists and engage in a debate. 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:57.200 That then didn't become kind of standard for journalists and 0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:00.480 writers until the Internet came along. It used to be 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:02.360 if you were a writer in a newspaper, there might 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:03.800 be a letter to the editor about you, but you 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:06.280 didn't respond to it. You didn't engage with that critic. 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:09.320 But in an advice column, you engage with your critics 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:12.840 all the time. And so the people I learned most 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:14.400 from the people who keep me up to date and 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:16.920 current are my readers and my listeners who are always 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:19.880 getting in my face about whatever it is I may 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:22.040 have said about what they agreed with what they didn't 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:24.840 agree with, and there's always been this back and forth. 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:26.760 You know. When I started Savage Love, I called it 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:29.560 a conversation I'm having in a bar with my friends 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.680 about our sex lives when we're drunk. And originally the 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:34.160 column was a joke. You know. It was a gay 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.440 guy giving straight people sex advice thirty years ago. And 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:39.200 I was going to treat straight people at the same 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:42.000 contempt that straight advice calumnists like A Landers had always 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:45.160 treated gay people with. UH. And I was going to 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:46.920 do it for six months or a year. But then 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:49.280 straight people who had never been treated with that particular 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:52.200 kind of contempt before I really liked it. I thought 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:55.720 it was really funny as opposed to really traumatizing UH, 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:58.120 and started sending me real questions. So it kind of 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:01.160 accidentally became a real advice column in a real advice podcast. 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:04.600 And how would you rate yourself in applying your own 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:10.360 advice to your own life? Well, you know, more than once, UH, 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:15.200 my husband has turned to me and quoted me back 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.080 to me when I haven't been living up to my 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:22.360 own standards around being honest or using my words, or 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:25.000 being direct or being g g G or my most 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:27.840 I think one of the pieces of vice I'm proudest 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:31.240 to fuck first, which is, you know, before you go 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:33.120 out to dinner fun, don't wait till you get home 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:35.520 from dinner, because you're gonna be too fold to fuck. Originally, 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:37.480 this is advice I came up with for Valentine's Day 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:40.000 because on Debruary fifteenth, I would get all these letters 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:42.000 fro people who didn't get funed on Valentine's Day. We 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:44.320 were worried about the date of their relationships, and I 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:45.880 would write them back and say, so, what happened on 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.120 Valentine's Day? And they went out to dinner and they 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:52.800 had wine and Coco Van and chocolate mouse and more wine, 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:54.800 and no one wants to get fucked with a gut 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:57.680 full of Coco Van and chocolate mouse. Funk first, then 0:15:57.720 --> 0:15:59.840 go to dinner. And so when I, you know, my 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:01.920 husband or my boyfriend's horny and they want to funk, 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:03.480 and I'm like, oh, let's do it later, they're like, 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:06.520 fuck first, Who said them? Who said the first? You did? 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:09.560 Let's fun? Now? Well, the first of all, that's great advice. 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:12.480 Everyone should suck first anyway, even whether you're talking about 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:14.640 eating or not. I feel like getting fucking out of 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:17.440 the way right away with a new potential love interest 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:20.360 will save everybody a lot of time because you have 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:22.360 to find out what parts are working and what's gonna 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:24.240 because some people are into some kinky ship and some 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:26.880 people are not into some kinky ship. So it's good 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:30.120 to find out what is happening in that arena before 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:32.640 you even go to dinner, because otherwise that's just a 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:34.960 waste of a meal. In my opinion, that's how gay 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:37.560 men do it. Yeah, well, maybe I am a gay man. 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:39.960 I I the other night, Joe, my boyfriend, and I 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:42.200 were ordering room service and I knew. I said we 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:45.520 should suck first, because once we eat this, I'm not 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:48.400 gonna want to suck. And I we had thirty minutes 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:50.320 before room service came, and I was like, let's get 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:53.080 this going. And I knew because I was like, we're 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:55.360 in a hotel room. It's going to happen at some point, 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:57.520 so let me get this out of the way. It 0:16:57.600 --> 0:16:59.560 was more of a formality. I don't make it sound 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:02.120 very mantic because it quite frankly, it wasn't. I was 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:04.480 just making sure that I would be able to relax 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:09.960 after I my cheeseburger, which is really important. Also, you know, 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:12.640 primarily I give this advice to people about holy days 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:14.720 of fucking obligation, like a day when you gotta get 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:16.960 fucked or you're going to be sad or think something's 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:21.400 wrong your wedding day. First, don't wait till after the reception. 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:23.520 Stand at the altar with come writing down your legs. 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:29.119 That's how you do it. That's good advice too, because 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:30.720 who knows what kind of shape you're going to be 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.160 in at the end of your wedding. You're getting exhausted 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:37.520 and ship face probably most often, well not everybody, but 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:39.560 a lot of people do get shipped faced. And I 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:41.960 get those letters I didn't you know, we got married 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:44.800 and we didn't have sex on our wedding day, so sad, Well, yeah, 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:47.120 you should have had sex on your wedding day. That 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:50.320 morning before the wedding. Katherine, what's your view on being 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:53.119 too full to fuck? I totally agree. I mean you can. Actually, 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:55.240 while you were saying funk first, I was like looking 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:57.760 over here at my engineer who I am also married to, 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:02.359 and she's like, yeah, absolutely, you have to funk before 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:05.200 you go to dinner. But to the wedding day. Think 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:08.000 my brother and his wife fell asleep counting money on 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:12.520 their wedding day and never had sex. That's pretty hot there, 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:15.080 I know that. Great, that's like a good reason the 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:21.200 second best thing. Yes, but no, totally agree. First, Yeah, 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:22.840 I feel like that's a good rule of thumb to 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:24.879 live by, especially if you're an adult. If you're a 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:27.360 young adult and you're experimenting with sex for the first time, 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:29.800 don't listen to what I'm saying. But if you're over 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:31.560 thirty and you've had sex with a lot of people, 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:33.199 just I would say, just get it out of the 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.280 way as soon as possible, for more reasons than one. 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:38.560 And then you know, if you funk before you go 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:40.440 out and then you catch a group and you don't 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:43.080 want to suck again, yeah, hot, there you go, and 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:45.760 then that's hot, and then you're over. Yes, then you're 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:49.480 over delivering and you don't feel this sense of tension 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:51.240 or you know, because oh my god, we have to 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:53.439 funk when we got home. You already sucked and so 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:54.840 you won't be tense about it. And then if you 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:58.639 want to funk when you get home, awesome. Let me 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:00.919 ask you another question. Do you feel like since you 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:03.920 are such a good advice giver and you're known for that, well, 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:07.920 it's your career. Do you feel like when you take 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:11.880 you your personal life into account that it matches and 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:15.199 is commensurate to the advice that you dole out like 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:18.720 you have imposter syndrome? Absolutely, Advice is easy to give 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:21.560 and hard to follow. I get in trouble sometimes because 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:23.560 I'm slow to tell people to break up or get 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:26.240 a divorce that I'm happy to get under the hood 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:28.919 and tinker. And I think you've been with my husband 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:32.280