WEBVTT - The Edge 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:21.556 Pushkin. I want to let you know that Rick has 0:00:21.556 --> 0:00:25.596 a new podcast called Tetragrammaton. After about four to five 0:00:25.676 --> 0:00:28.556 years of recording Broken Record, Rick decided he wanted to 0:00:28.596 --> 0:00:31.716 talk to more than just musicians, so on his new podcast, 0:00:31.836 --> 0:00:37.636 he'll be talking to actors, directors, wrestlers, business people, anyone 0:00:37.796 --> 0:00:40.876 that Rick finds interesting. So make sure to subscribe to 0:00:40.876 --> 0:00:46.036 Tetragrammaton wherever you listen to podcasts. You Two's The Edge 0:00:46.076 --> 0:00:49.156 is one of only a handful of guitarists as famous 0:00:49.196 --> 0:00:52.876 as his band's frontman. The Edge and Bono have been 0:00:52.876 --> 0:00:56.316 together as You two since their early days as teenagers 0:00:56.316 --> 0:00:59.876 in Dublin. They started the band in nineteen seventy six, 0:00:59.956 --> 0:01:02.236 and in the years since they've become one of the 0:01:02.356 --> 0:01:05.596 biggest rock bands in the world, releasing a consistent stream 0:01:05.636 --> 0:01:11.236 of hit records decade after decade or decade. Nearing their 0:01:11.476 --> 0:01:14.756 fifty year anniversary as a band, You two just released 0:01:14.836 --> 0:01:19.556 another album, Songs of Surrender. It's a forty track collection 0:01:19.756 --> 0:01:23.556 of reimagined and stripped down songs that span the entirety 0:01:23.596 --> 0:01:27.276 of You Two's catalog. The band is also preparing for 0:01:27.316 --> 0:01:30.396 the Las Vegas residency that starts this fall at the 0:01:30.476 --> 0:01:35.076 Venetians MSG sphere. On today's episode, Rick Rubin talks to 0:01:35.116 --> 0:01:38.916 the Edge about his theory behind the band's longevity. Plus 0:01:38.916 --> 0:01:41.956 he shares stories about writing YouTube classics like New Year's 0:01:42.076 --> 0:01:45.156 Day and Where the Streets Have No Name. The Edge 0:01:45.196 --> 0:01:47.916 also explains why Bono singing at the top of his 0:01:48.076 --> 0:01:54.476 range can be a bit much. This is broken record 0:01:54.836 --> 0:01:58.796 liner notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's 0:01:58.876 --> 0:02:03.396 Rick Ruben's conversation with The Edge. So, how the hell 0:02:03.436 --> 0:02:07.036 are you, Rick? I'm feeling pretty good. How about you? Yeah, 0:02:07.156 --> 0:02:12.236 I must say, cannot complain congratulations on the new album, 0:02:12.436 --> 0:02:18.316 Thank You. It's radical, it's radical. It struck us that 0:02:18.676 --> 0:02:21.796 there's very few acts you could do this, which is 0:02:22.796 --> 0:02:28.076 have a serious look back at recorded work from earlier years, 0:02:28.476 --> 0:02:32.036 because most groups are not around. You know that the 0:02:32.316 --> 0:02:34.996 full members are not with us. So it was a 0:02:35.036 --> 0:02:37.476 thrill not only to get to do it, but also 0:02:37.876 --> 0:02:40.556 feeling like we're doing something, as you say, radical, something 0:02:40.556 --> 0:02:45.556 that's never been done. Yes, it's beautiful, and it struck 0:02:45.596 --> 0:02:50.356 me as it had an honesty about it that really 0:02:50.516 --> 0:02:54.396 was touching. Yeah, and it felt like it was true 0:02:55.156 --> 0:03:00.716 to you and it felt really refreshing. Yeah. Well, because 0:03:00.796 --> 0:03:03.756 we had to move so fast and because we were 0:03:03.836 --> 0:03:06.796 allowing the music to lead us. I think it's got 0:03:06.796 --> 0:03:09.476 a kind of ease about it, you know. The the 0:03:09.596 --> 0:03:14.716 songs just are you know, and they're different versions for sure, 0:03:14.836 --> 0:03:17.876 and we've taken quite a few liberties, but the songs shine, 0:03:18.076 --> 0:03:21.596 and they shine because we've done a radical thing. We've 0:03:21.636 --> 0:03:25.636 decided to really serve the voice and the lyrics and 0:03:26.076 --> 0:03:28.596 get out of the way as much as possible, So 0:03:28.636 --> 0:03:33.236 the arrangements are really sparse and very simple in most cases. 0:03:33.676 --> 0:03:36.796 How did the idea come about to do this? It 0:03:36.876 --> 0:03:40.356 was knocking around for a while because, as people who've 0:03:40.356 --> 0:03:43.596 been to our shows will know, occasionally we would take 0:03:43.596 --> 0:03:45.556 a song from an album that was a full band 0:03:45.596 --> 0:03:48.076 arrangement that we'd strip it down and we'd play it. 0:03:48.916 --> 0:03:51.756 Often it would just be binding myself and me on 0:03:51.836 --> 0:03:56.556 acoustic guitar or possibly piano, and those versions sometimes became 0:03:56.636 --> 0:04:01.156 the most iconic arrangements. I'm thinking of Staring at the 0:04:01.196 --> 0:04:07.316 Sun or Ordinary Love or Every Breaking Way recently, so 0:04:07.396 --> 0:04:09.476 there's always this thought, well, why don't we try that 0:04:09.516 --> 0:04:12.436 with more of our songs to see where it leads us? 0:04:12.476 --> 0:04:17.236 And then when the pandemic caused this lockdown. I'm one 0:04:17.236 --> 0:04:20.516 of those people who works on music all the time, 0:04:20.916 --> 0:04:24.636 but it seemed like the perfect moment to add into 0:04:24.956 --> 0:04:26.836 what I would normally be doing, which is where coming 0:04:26.916 --> 0:04:30.636 new stuff. To add in this other project is to 0:04:30.756 --> 0:04:35.596 explore arrangement ideas for these songs. And so, with no pressure, 0:04:35.836 --> 0:04:39.436 no expectation at sort of record company that there would 0:04:39.476 --> 0:04:42.836 be a new YouTube record coming, we just started experimenting 0:04:42.876 --> 0:04:46.116 and I would try a few arrangement ideas then bring 0:04:46.116 --> 0:04:49.796 them to Bono and he would saying, see how it sounded, 0:04:50.596 --> 0:04:53.596 and it just kind of grew, and the whole project 0:04:53.716 --> 0:04:58.156 then developed its own momentum as we got deeper into 0:04:58.276 --> 0:05:01.596 the material and the whole collection started to have its 0:05:01.636 --> 0:05:05.356 own sort of personality. And the one thing that we 0:05:06.076 --> 0:05:08.876 really wanted to try and do was bring an intimacy 0:05:08.956 --> 0:05:13.516 to performances because as a young band particularly, we often 0:05:13.556 --> 0:05:16.876 found ourselves with versions of our songs with Bono's singing 0:05:16.916 --> 0:05:19.676 at the very top of his range, which is an 0:05:19.676 --> 0:05:22.396 amazing sound. I mean, you know, the instrument of Bonnah 0:05:22.396 --> 0:05:26.676 House is powerful, but it can be a little much, 0:05:26.956 --> 0:05:30.356 you know, if you're if you're at home and you 0:05:30.396 --> 0:05:33.516 want to chill. You know, it's like you don't necessarily 0:05:33.556 --> 0:05:37.116 go to those early YouTube records because they're just so intense. 0:05:37.396 --> 0:05:41.996 So we were we thought, well, with this distance of 0:05:42.036 --> 0:05:45.596 experience and time, you know, going back to those early 0:05:45.836 --> 0:05:49.036 versions and rearranging them so Bono's singing within his range 0:05:49.036 --> 0:05:52.436 and he's got the dynamic opportunity to kind of add 0:05:52.516 --> 0:05:55.156 light and shade. We just thought would be interesting, and 0:05:55.196 --> 0:05:58.316 it turned out to be the kind of secret weapon 0:05:58.756 --> 0:06:03.836 was intimacy. It became our kind of new punk rock. Yeah. No, 0:06:03.996 --> 0:06:06.556 it's it's beautiful, and it's a beautiful idea. And I 0:06:06.596 --> 0:06:11.036 think in some ways the extremes are always what's interesting. 0:06:11.276 --> 0:06:15.596 So very loud is interesting, and in the same way, 0:06:16.036 --> 0:06:20.036 very quiet interesting. I can remember when I first discovered 0:06:20.116 --> 0:06:24.196 Eric Satia, and I was still relatively punk rocker at 0:06:24.196 --> 0:06:27.036 the time, but something about this music spoke to me 0:06:27.076 --> 0:06:29.036 in a way that other things didn't. And then I 0:06:29.076 --> 0:06:34.076 remember visiting Ian McKay in Washington, DC, and I got 0:06:34.076 --> 0:06:36.636 to his house and there was an Eric Sati album 0:06:37.116 --> 0:06:40.636 sitting there. It's like something's going on. Something, It's like 0:06:40.676 --> 0:06:44.236 there's something and it's those it's the edges, it's what's 0:06:44.316 --> 0:06:48.476 interesting around the edges, and now you're experimenting on the 0:06:48.476 --> 0:06:50.676 other side. And I love it. I love it, and 0:06:50.756 --> 0:06:53.636 it feels maybe when I was saying the honesty of 0:06:53.676 --> 0:06:58.276 it is, this feels more like what I imagine you 0:06:58.276 --> 0:07:01.756 would put on and actually listen to in real life. 0:07:02.356 --> 0:07:04.756 Well a lot of the time, that's true. I mean, 0:07:04.836 --> 0:07:06.636 you know, you got to remember when we were kids, 0:07:07.036 --> 0:07:10.676 putting on a record was an occasion, you know, because 0:07:11.876 --> 0:07:15.156 there weren't that many records around, or interesting records, and 0:07:15.276 --> 0:07:17.836 those that had them, you know, we would get to 0:07:17.876 --> 0:07:19.596 know them so we could go over to their place 0:07:19.596 --> 0:07:23.956 and listen. So putting on an album, you wouldn't have 0:07:24.076 --> 0:07:28.796 music much of the time. You'd only have it when 0:07:28.796 --> 0:07:30.796 you decided you were going to go and have a 0:07:30.836 --> 0:07:34.916 record listening session or on radio, I guess. But today, 0:07:35.316 --> 0:07:39.076 of course, speak up access to music at all times, 0:07:39.356 --> 0:07:44.516 so music becomes the soundtrack to every part of your day. 0:07:44.676 --> 0:07:47.036 And I think this is you know, there's a need 0:07:47.076 --> 0:07:49.636 at times to have this kind of music that is 0:07:49.716 --> 0:07:53.436 just with you, but in a softer, more intimate way. 0:07:53.796 --> 0:07:56.636 When you were growing up, was their music playing in 0:07:56.676 --> 0:08:00.876 your household or not so much? There was we had 0:08:00.876 --> 0:08:05.076 a record player. My dad's record collection was mostly kind 0:08:05.116 --> 0:08:09.516 of the classic crooners of the fifties, Franks and and 0:08:10.156 --> 0:08:13.756 there was her Valpert, those sorts of records, a couple 0:08:13.756 --> 0:08:17.076 of jazz records. But he was just that little bit 0:08:17.116 --> 0:08:19.516 too old to really get rock and roll, so he 0:08:19.556 --> 0:08:23.396 didn't have any not even a Beatles record. So when 0:08:23.476 --> 0:08:26.156 my brother and I were, you know, young, like eight 0:08:26.276 --> 0:08:30.116 nine years old, I remember we got a gift of 0:08:30.596 --> 0:08:34.796 a five pound note for Christmas from one of our grandparents, 0:08:35.716 --> 0:08:38.436 so we said, let's buy an album together, so we 0:08:38.556 --> 0:08:41.716 bought Sergeant Peppers. We decided that was going to be 0:08:41.716 --> 0:08:44.836 our joint purchase, and that was kind of the first 0:08:45.556 --> 0:08:50.436 rock and roll album in our household. And then subsequently, 0:08:50.476 --> 0:08:54.276 obviously as we got a little older and got more 0:08:54.796 --> 0:08:58.636 gifts from our grandparents, those that record collection grew slowly. 0:08:58.996 --> 0:09:01.996 But I mean, think about that, it was that rare. 0:09:02.596 --> 0:09:06.316 You know, you find your friends who had these records 0:09:06.356 --> 0:09:10.596 like led Zeppelin record or Dylan record or a Jimmy 0:09:10.676 --> 0:09:14.196 Hendricks record, and you'd borrow them if you possibly could. 0:09:14.396 --> 0:09:17.156 And now it's everywhere, and I don't know there's good 0:09:17.156 --> 0:09:21.396 and bad to that, but I certainly enjoy having access 0:09:21.396 --> 0:09:24.236 to everything and eric side to somebody. I love it too, 0:09:24.236 --> 0:09:26.476 by the way, and I think your streaming numbers are 0:09:26.636 --> 0:09:31.916 surprisingly high. Interesting. Interesting would you say, did you fall 0:09:31.956 --> 0:09:33.956 in love with music at that time when when it 0:09:34.076 --> 0:09:37.436 was shared with your brother and what Sergeant Pepper? Was 0:09:37.476 --> 0:09:40.836 that sort of the beginning of your connection to music? 0:09:41.316 --> 0:09:44.236 It was, And you know, we were our family was 0:09:44.316 --> 0:09:49.436 from Wales, moved to Ireland, so you know, growing up, 0:09:49.756 --> 0:09:53.356 you know, we all kind of made inroads into the 0:09:53.476 --> 0:09:56.516 local social scene as kids, but there's always that little 0:09:56.556 --> 0:09:58.796 sense of being an outsider. And I think music was 0:09:58.836 --> 0:10:01.636 a great place to kind of go and and just 0:10:01.756 --> 0:10:05.476 spend time. So yeah, it was a refuge for me definitely. 0:10:05.516 --> 0:10:08.996 And I would listen to records, particular records that I loved. 0:10:09.116 --> 0:10:13.436 I'd listen hundreds of times because they were rare and 0:10:13.556 --> 0:10:17.036 I got to know every single nuance of those records. 0:10:17.796 --> 0:10:21.076 And this was before you started playing, Is this correct? Yeah? 0:10:21.196 --> 0:10:23.676 The first instrument I ever tried to play would have 0:10:23.676 --> 0:10:26.156 been piano one It is probably about ten. Didn't go 0:10:26.676 --> 0:10:30.076 so great because I had a very good ear, but 0:10:30.516 --> 0:10:33.916 a kind of music dyslexia, so there's no chance I 0:10:33.956 --> 0:10:37.476 was ever going to be able to read music nearly 0:10:37.476 --> 0:10:41.676 as easily as hear it and copy. So my ear 0:10:41.876 --> 0:10:45.636 kind of has been someways my greatest asset, but definitely 0:10:45.636 --> 0:10:51.596 early on stopped me from understanding notation or really finding 0:10:51.636 --> 0:10:54.996 my way into that because I just didn't get us. 0:10:56.116 --> 0:11:00.316 I didn't like it. I understood then, probably around thirteen, 0:11:01.076 --> 0:11:04.156 my brother was given a cheap, little acoustic guitar and 0:11:04.196 --> 0:11:08.036 the two of us learned basic chords just open chords 0:11:08.036 --> 0:11:10.956 is just so we could sing and play. And that 0:11:11.076 --> 0:11:13.916 was the beginning of when I got really interested in 0:11:14.236 --> 0:11:17.636 learning an instrument. And then would you play along with records? 0:11:17.636 --> 0:11:21.956 At that time? I would, and not just records. I 0:11:21.956 --> 0:11:23.676 mean it got to the point where I would play 0:11:23.716 --> 0:11:28.516 along to the TV show that whatever we were. This 0:11:28.556 --> 0:11:30.636 is a small family house, so we're all, you know, 0:11:30.716 --> 0:11:35.196 in the TV room, and I can't stop myself picking 0:11:35.236 --> 0:11:37.396 up the guitar and I'm just playing along, and I 0:11:37.436 --> 0:11:42.596 remember getting pillows thrown at me to shut up. I 0:11:42.676 --> 0:11:47.116 was just doing everyone's head in with this incessant guitar line. 0:11:47.516 --> 0:11:53.076 But again, it's the ADHD whatever. Once I got into 0:11:53.116 --> 0:11:55.116 the guitar, I really sort of did a deep dive 0:11:55.156 --> 0:11:58.436 and Luckily early on there was there's a couple of 0:11:58.716 --> 0:12:02.556 guitar players that I fell in love with, Rory Gallaher 0:12:02.836 --> 0:12:07.076 very early on, being Irish, being you know, a great 0:12:07.156 --> 0:12:10.396 guitar player, so I would play along to his records. 0:12:11.276 --> 0:12:13.756 And then that was when I was probably about fifteen. 0:12:13.796 --> 0:12:18.876 And then suddenly punk rock happens, and suddenly it's like 0:12:18.916 --> 0:12:23.156 the Clash, the Jam, all these amazing groups in the 0:12:23.276 --> 0:12:28.516 UK and Patti Smith and then television. So suddenly, as 0:12:28.556 --> 0:12:32.556 a young guitar player, I'm getting all this sort of 0:12:32.596 --> 0:12:38.236 incoming exposure to radically different kinds of guitar approaches, and 0:12:38.276 --> 0:12:41.316 I was like, whoa. And that was a big inspiration, 0:12:41.356 --> 0:12:43.356 not just what they were doing, but the sense that 0:12:43.396 --> 0:12:46.356 they could do something different. You know, I sensed it 0:12:46.436 --> 0:12:49.916 was not the same set of ideas as the sort 0:12:49.916 --> 0:12:54.636 of white rock, which you know I found early on. 0:12:54.996 --> 0:12:58.676 I liked Lizzie, but certain point it just seemed like 0:12:59.396 --> 0:13:02.316 it didn't have much imagination. But this work, you know, 0:13:02.396 --> 0:13:06.116 Patti Smith and television particularly, they were like, wow, that 0:13:06.276 --> 0:13:10.396 is that's different, That's coming from other place. It opened 0:13:10.396 --> 0:13:12.876 the door to possibilities, whether whether you were going to 0:13:12.956 --> 0:13:17.396 go down the same path as them or not. It 0:13:17.596 --> 0:13:20.716 showed there's another way, and there could be many other 0:13:20.756 --> 0:13:23.396 ways as it turns out. Yeah, I mean I was. 0:13:23.716 --> 0:13:26.636 I was so fortunate so that you know, people like 0:13:26.756 --> 0:13:30.916 John Miguel from Magazine and Susan the Banshees, and there 0:13:30.996 --> 0:13:35.676 was some great guitar players, just so many at that 0:13:35.796 --> 0:13:41.356 moment that we're doing new things, and I was just 0:13:41.436 --> 0:13:45.036 lapping it all up at all times. About how old 0:13:45.036 --> 0:13:50.076 were you at that time? Well, this was seventy seven, 0:13:50.316 --> 0:13:53.596 so I would have been seventy seven. I would have 0:13:53.596 --> 0:13:59.316 been sixteen. Yeah, punk rock happened kind of just as 0:13:59.316 --> 0:14:02.276 I was turning fifteen. Do you remember what the very 0:14:02.276 --> 0:14:06.476 first punk record you heard was. I think the first 0:14:06.516 --> 0:14:09.676 punk song I heard was probably the Jazz on Top 0:14:09.716 --> 0:14:12.356 of the Pumps. The Jam on Top of the Pops 0:14:12.436 --> 0:14:15.756 was a moment because the sheer energy of it, you know, 0:14:15.836 --> 0:14:18.516 and the fact that these guys were probably only about 0:14:18.556 --> 0:14:20.636 three or four years older than us. It really felt 0:14:20.716 --> 0:14:25.916 suddenly not only was it possible to write your own songs, 0:14:26.076 --> 0:14:29.636 but actually get some notice. So that was a big 0:14:29.836 --> 0:14:31.836 encouragement to us at that time because it was music 0:14:31.876 --> 0:14:34.316 we could play. We love the Ramones for the same reason. 0:14:34.556 --> 0:14:38.556 They were probably the first cover of something that was 0:14:39.196 --> 0:14:42.596 from the punk kind of tradition, and we did a 0:14:42.596 --> 0:14:45.676 bunch of Ramones songs. That was probably all we could 0:14:45.676 --> 0:14:49.276 play at that point. I love the Ramones. That my 0:14:49.356 --> 0:14:51.556 first experience of punk rock was the Ramans and it 0:14:51.876 --> 0:14:58.076 changed my life. Yeah, they were real outliers. If you 0:14:58.196 --> 0:15:02.076 think of how you connected to music, then how do 0:15:02.116 --> 0:15:07.076 you say your relationship to music has changed since childhood? Well, 0:15:07.116 --> 0:15:10.076 I think when you're a kid, you tend to sort 0:15:10.116 --> 0:15:13.876 of have your real favorites and you you're not maybe 0:15:13.916 --> 0:15:18.076 as curious about things outside of that genre of that form. 0:15:18.156 --> 0:15:21.596 So we went through a whole phase where we absolutely 0:15:21.636 --> 0:15:25.116 had no interest in the blues, no interest in really 0:15:25.116 --> 0:15:28.916 an African American music, because that to us had been 0:15:29.356 --> 0:15:33.196 as a sort of form, had been so strongly associated 0:15:33.196 --> 0:15:37.156 with the music before punk rock. So we we would 0:15:37.196 --> 0:15:42.956 have real prejudices against us copying any of those ideas 0:15:42.996 --> 0:15:46.916 of forms. So certain guitar styles we just wouldn't we 0:15:46.916 --> 0:15:51.396 wouldn't allow them in our music. Bending of notes, you know, 0:15:51.556 --> 0:15:53.676 something as simple as that, we just weren't into it. 0:15:54.476 --> 0:15:59.636 The third, which is in musical terms, the note that 0:15:59.716 --> 0:16:02.276 gives you a major chord or a minor chord. We 0:16:02.276 --> 0:16:05.036 wouldn't play thirds. We just wanted our music to be 0:16:05.356 --> 0:16:08.716 very open and hard to pin down, so I would 0:16:08.716 --> 0:16:11.196 plays that were just made of the root and the fifth, 0:16:11.756 --> 0:16:16.116 which means it has no sex. It's it's in terms 0:16:16.116 --> 0:16:19.636 of the chord gender. If you want. Today, I'm much 0:16:19.676 --> 0:16:23.756 more open, And I suppose where I'm at these days 0:16:24.036 --> 0:16:29.076 is songs. You know, they seem to be an eternal thing. 0:16:29.076 --> 0:16:32.196 If you hit on a song that is outside of 0:16:32.956 --> 0:16:36.436 time in the sense of the moment in culture, you know, 0:16:36.476 --> 0:16:39.436 if it's timeless, that's the highest goal. I think. So 0:16:40.116 --> 0:16:44.396 therefore everybody from coal Porter and a bird backreck stuff. 0:16:44.396 --> 0:16:48.196 I wouldn't have abba, you know, the bee jeans, I wouldn't. 0:16:48.196 --> 0:16:49.876 I wouldn't have listened to any of that stuff when 0:16:49.876 --> 0:16:52.836 I was sixteen. But now I feel like there's a 0:16:52.836 --> 0:16:56.316 lot there for me to learn. It's beautiful. Having a 0:16:56.356 --> 0:17:00.796 parochial view of style early on can be really helpful 0:17:00.876 --> 0:17:05.036 in terms of defining your sound, so it can work 0:17:05.076 --> 0:17:09.396 to your advantage to see, I'm only going to play this, 0:17:09.596 --> 0:17:12.876 I'm only going to do this. This is our sound, 0:17:13.036 --> 0:17:15.436 and you define your sound and then when you break 0:17:15.556 --> 0:17:21.356 free of that. It allows incredible growth and change over time. 0:17:22.356 --> 0:17:25.596 You're not starting with the palette of everything. You're starting 0:17:25.596 --> 0:17:28.076 with a limited palette. But it was based on your taste. 0:17:28.156 --> 0:17:30.956 It It was honest, you know, these are the things 0:17:30.956 --> 0:17:33.956 I like. We're going to work within this framework, and 0:17:33.996 --> 0:17:37.796 it's beautiful. And then finding ways now to say, okay, 0:17:37.836 --> 0:17:40.356 now I like the things that I rejected, Then how 0:17:40.396 --> 0:17:44.876 can these elements be integrated and still be true to 0:17:44.996 --> 0:17:48.516 what it is that we do exactly? And limitations can 0:17:48.796 --> 0:17:55.236 end up being really crucial defining characteristics. Sickly working with Brianino. 0:17:55.876 --> 0:18:00.556 You know, Brian would have been a person who understood technology, 0:18:01.316 --> 0:18:05.116 possibly more than he understood music, as in terms of 0:18:05.196 --> 0:18:09.756 music theory. And we were working with Ryan and we 0:18:09.756 --> 0:18:12.276 were at one point we were saying, you know, we're 0:18:12.316 --> 0:18:15.796 not like virtuosos, you know, and he was going, well, 0:18:15.836 --> 0:18:18.516 that's cool, you know, that's not important to think about 0:18:18.516 --> 0:18:21.556 the velvet underground. I mean, these guys were they had 0:18:21.876 --> 0:18:26.796 incredible intelligence and creativity. But you know, mo Tucker was, 0:18:27.316 --> 0:18:29.796 you know, a drummer who played the songs, but she 0:18:29.596 --> 0:18:32.836 was not one of the great drummers. And Lou was 0:18:32.876 --> 0:18:37.356 a really decent guitar play. He's not Jimmy Hendrickson. We realized, 0:18:37.436 --> 0:18:41.676 oh yeah, you know, those limitations can turn into strengths, 0:18:41.796 --> 0:18:45.476 and that was a big insight in some ways. That's 0:18:45.516 --> 0:18:48.236 what the punk rock revolution was about. Was and the 0:18:48.316 --> 0:18:51.516 hip hop revolution as well, was it was taking the 0:18:51.636 --> 0:18:54.876 music out of the conservatory and back to the streets, 0:18:54.876 --> 0:18:57.996 and it was for everybody. Everyone who had a conception 0:18:58.276 --> 0:19:03.556 or something to say could participate. Yeah, it democratized in 0:19:03.596 --> 0:19:06.556 a way. That's amazing, because that was the problem with 0:19:06.676 --> 0:19:08.756 music prior to punk was that it seemed so at 0:19:08.836 --> 0:19:12.556 least it seemed like, you know, if you weren't a 0:19:12.676 --> 0:19:16.436 virtuoso musician, then you didn't didn't get a chance to 0:19:16.476 --> 0:19:19.796 get into playing live and making records. And also there 0:19:19.876 --> 0:19:23.356 was that sense of the tablets of Stone descending from 0:19:23.396 --> 0:19:26.796 on High to us mere immortals, and you know, that 0:19:27.156 --> 0:19:31.396 got very boring and extremely pretentious around that time. And 0:19:31.476 --> 0:19:34.556 so we were into even then, we were into the 0:19:34.596 --> 0:19:38.556 bands that could put it together on a single three 0:19:38.596 --> 0:19:42.156 and a half minute, forty five vinyl record. So the 0:19:42.236 --> 0:19:46.156 Ramones could do that, the Kinks could do that, Iggy Pop, 0:19:46.196 --> 0:19:50.836 and the Stones obviously, the Beatles and they were our 0:19:50.916 --> 0:19:54.676 heroes for that reason. We just loved those rock and 0:19:54.796 --> 0:19:58.396 roll forty fives. Did you watch The Top of the 0:19:58.436 --> 0:20:02.876 Pops every week? Yeah, pretty much religiously. And then there 0:20:02.916 --> 0:20:04.876 was one other show called The Old Grow Whistle Test 0:20:04.956 --> 0:20:08.476 and that was the same. We would watch it every week. 0:20:09.116 --> 0:20:12.956 So told the Pops had pistols. On one occasion they 0:20:13.036 --> 0:20:15.996 played pretty vacant and that was mind blowing. But the 0:20:16.036 --> 0:20:19.436 Ogo whistle Test had all the touring acts, so the 0:20:19.556 --> 0:20:23.956 Cramps were playing, you know, all that, so that was 0:20:24.556 --> 0:20:26.636 a great one to catch and they would do in 0:20:26.676 --> 0:20:28.876 that case, they do like two or three songs. They 0:20:28.876 --> 0:20:32.196 wouldn't just do one. Great The Cramps was the first 0:20:32.316 --> 0:20:33.916 punk rock show I got to see when I was 0:20:33.956 --> 0:20:37.556 probably it was probably fifteen or sixteen, and it was 0:20:38.196 --> 0:20:43.356 mind blowing. It changed my life forever. Amazing band. What 0:20:43.436 --> 0:20:45.036 would have been the music that was playing on the 0:20:45.116 --> 0:20:48.916 radio back when you're a kid, Well, I mean a 0:20:48.916 --> 0:20:51.236 lot of it was was the pop music of the day, 0:20:51.236 --> 0:20:53.796 and some of it was was actually really good, but 0:20:53.876 --> 0:20:55.916 some of it was terrible. So when I was a 0:20:55.956 --> 0:20:58.796 really young kid, there was a sort of glam explosion, 0:20:58.916 --> 0:21:03.116 so it was everything from Bowie to Mark Bowland, Gary Glitter, 0:21:03.756 --> 0:21:08.036 Alvin Stardust, all these artists from the UK who was 0:21:08.076 --> 0:21:12.116 sort of right think the wave of this new Glam movement, 0:21:12.196 --> 0:21:16.596 which I suppose was interesting because it brought androgyny into 0:21:16.756 --> 0:21:19.396 rock and roll, you know, like I suppose Mick had 0:21:19.436 --> 0:21:22.756 played around a bit with it, Mick Jagger, but Bowie 0:21:22.836 --> 0:21:25.116 and Mark Bowland really kind of took it to the 0:21:25.156 --> 0:21:28.156 next level. And you know, it was eyeliner, but it 0:21:28.236 --> 0:21:30.436 was the music actually was a lot of it was 0:21:30.436 --> 0:21:34.276 really good. And then Abbot, I guess would have been 0:21:34.476 --> 0:21:38.236 huge at that time, but in terms of guitar music, 0:21:39.276 --> 0:21:41.196 a lot of it didn't reach me, you know, and 0:21:41.236 --> 0:21:44.996 I was such a Beatles fan. I really didn't like 0:21:45.596 --> 0:21:48.996 the sort of progressive rock of that time. I quite 0:21:49.036 --> 0:21:51.076 liked a band called Yes because I think that had 0:21:51.076 --> 0:21:53.676 some good, good ideas, but a lot of it just 0:21:53.716 --> 0:21:57.116 left me completely cold. So I was drawn to Alice 0:21:57.196 --> 0:22:03.036 Cooper and Slade and these guitar bands that had tunes, 0:22:03.276 --> 0:22:06.076 you know, that had some good songs. That was the 0:22:06.116 --> 0:22:09.756 thing that was attracted me. Was you two your first band, 0:22:09.916 --> 0:22:13.276 the first band you were in, Yeah, I mean we 0:22:13.276 --> 0:22:17.036 were very early days. We called us Feedback and that 0:22:17.076 --> 0:22:19.116 was when we were doing covers, and you know, we 0:22:19.116 --> 0:22:21.836 were kids. And then when the punk thing happened, we 0:22:21.996 --> 0:22:23.836 called ourselves the Hype for a while, and we were 0:22:23.876 --> 0:22:26.556 starting to write our own songs, but still mostly doing covers. 0:22:26.996 --> 0:22:31.436 And then you Two, when we really started to get 0:22:31.436 --> 0:22:34.636 serious about our own songwriting, we called usselves you two 0:22:34.716 --> 0:22:37.156 and that. Yeah, so, and how old were the members 0:22:37.156 --> 0:22:39.356 of the band when you all met? We were all 0:22:39.396 --> 0:22:42.836 in high school together, and so I would have been fifteen, 0:22:43.076 --> 0:22:47.196 Larry would have been fifteen, Adam sixteen. And really when 0:22:47.356 --> 0:22:50.516 when we got together, it was it was more about 0:22:50.676 --> 0:22:52.636 just something fun to do on a Saturday, you know. 0:22:52.676 --> 0:22:57.636 It wasn't knowing any idea of taking more seriously than that. 0:22:58.356 --> 0:23:03.476 And we were kids, so the transcision from the hobby 0:23:03.876 --> 0:23:08.076 to thinking, wow, we have something was a slow one, 0:23:08.156 --> 0:23:14.436 but fun enough. The spark, that thing that you recognize 0:23:14.636 --> 0:23:18.356 when you play with somebody else, that spark was there 0:23:18.436 --> 0:23:21.156 quite early on, even as we were playing other people's material. 0:23:21.196 --> 0:23:25.116 There was a chemistry there that we all recognized. And 0:23:25.276 --> 0:23:28.716 the only band I think I've ever been in where 0:23:29.356 --> 0:23:32.316 except for one, I got a gig with a country 0:23:32.316 --> 0:23:38.596 band at age sixteen for one night and it was 0:23:38.756 --> 0:23:42.236 a band called the Drifting Cowboys and we're basically doing 0:23:42.716 --> 0:23:47.076 country songs and I got paid and that was that's 0:23:47.076 --> 0:23:51.516 the first time I actually ever got paid to play guitar. Amazing. 0:23:53.156 --> 0:23:55.476 We'll be back after a quick break with more from 0:23:55.556 --> 0:24:03.396 Rick Rubin and The Edge. We're back with The Edge. 0:24:04.076 --> 0:24:08.556 Did you ever feel connection to any traditional Irish music 0:24:08.716 --> 0:24:10.996 just because such a big part of the Irish culture, 0:24:11.476 --> 0:24:14.916 the folk songs and the traditional tunes. Was that in 0:24:14.956 --> 0:24:19.236 your life at all? You know, I knew that it 0:24:19.316 --> 0:24:22.596 was there, but you know, at that stage, I really 0:24:22.636 --> 0:24:26.076 didn't find it interesting. I didn't find it engaging. I mean, 0:24:26.116 --> 0:24:30.076 I suppose for us as kids in Dublin was in 0:24:30.116 --> 0:24:34.276 those days and the sort of late seventies was quite 0:24:34.276 --> 0:24:39.476 a gray place. There wasn't a huge amount going on. 0:24:39.676 --> 0:24:42.836 So music was an escape, you know, it was it 0:24:42.916 --> 0:24:46.716 was like a window to something else going on in 0:24:46.756 --> 0:24:49.356 another part of the world. So the last thing we 0:24:49.396 --> 0:24:52.676 wanted to do was listen to her, you know, traditional 0:24:52.676 --> 0:24:56.076 Irish music, to be reminded of what we were very 0:24:56.116 --> 0:24:59.756 well aware of every day, which was Ireland at that time. 0:25:00.156 --> 0:25:03.076 Now I look back and it's it's beautiful music. There's 0:25:03.116 --> 0:25:07.316 actually a huge revival of folk and traditional music happening 0:25:07.396 --> 0:25:13.596 right now in Ireland, and some great new groups langcom Ye, Vagabonds, 0:25:14.756 --> 0:25:19.676 Lisa O'Neil. These are really regarded new folk and traditional artists, 0:25:20.036 --> 0:25:23.436